Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
religion_n	church_n	roman_a	rome_n	3,452	5	6.8287	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A78612	A pretended voice from heaven, proved to bee the voice of man, and not of God. Or, An answer to a treatise, called A voice from heaven, written by Mr. Gualter Postlethwait, an unordained preacher, taking upon him to exercise the pastoral charge, in a congregation at Lewis in Sussex. Wherein, his weakness, in undertaking to prove all protestant churches to bee antichristian, and to bee separated from, as no true churches of Christ, is discovered; and the sinfulness of such a separation evinced. Together with, a brief answer inserted, to the arguments for popular ordination, brought by the answerers of Jus Divinum Ministerii Evangelici, in their book called The preacher sent. By Ezekiel Charke, M.A. and rector of Waldron in Sussex. Imprimatur, Edmond Calamy.	Charke, Ezekiel.	1658 (1658)	Wing C2069; Thomason E959_5; ESTC R207673	108,343	141

their Fathers name c. That their standing synchronizeth with the standing of the Antichristian Church appeareth Rev. 13.16 17. with the four first verses of the 14th Chapter For the company of the Lambs marked ones is opposite to the Beasts whole marked company whilst it was such whilst the Church-State of the Beast was false and corrupt the Church-State of the 144000 was true And it is said they were not defiled with women which argues that the Whore was at the time of their standing seducing And the Apostle John at the same time sees an Angel going forth and crying Forbes Gyffard Fulk Deut. Fox Bernard Broughton Babylon is fallen Accordingly Brightman Mede and sundry other worthy Expositors understand this context of the 144000 to denote the true Church of God in the midst of whom Christ reigned who were fed with purer ordinances and worship during Antichrists reign and standing out all along against his Idolatry Now seeing the Congregational Churches are as it were but of yesterday who are those 144000 that have stood with the Lamb upon Mount-Sion all along the time of Antichrists reign Either you must assert the loss of a true Church-State in the world for many ages past or else you must acknowledge that the Churches that have maintained a true profession all along the time of Antichrists reign were true Churches and that the Protestant Churches that have owned and maintained the same profession to this day have been and are true Churches and are in the number of the 144000. If you dare not say the former as I suppose you do not you must confess the latter and then with what face or reason will you justifie that separation from them as Antichristian Churches which you contend for Consider I beseech you what you have to answer for before the Lord in branding all the Christian Churches in the world from the rise of Antichrist to this day who have disowned and opposed him except a few separate Congregations of these latter daies as false and Antichristian Churches And the Lord give you repentance from this rash and unchristian dealing SECT III. Of National Churches CIvil co-habitation with wicked men is dangerous Ecclesiastical communion with them in the times of the Gospel p. 6 7 8. much more dangerous and unwarrantable 1 Cor. 5.1 To worship God with a strange worship is to worship a strange God Stephen lost his life for preaching against the Temple and so consequently against the Jews National Church the bond of which was their meeting together at the Temple in one individual worship That the Church is not of the world all grant but that it should not bee in the world is strange Christ gives his Disciples leave when persecuted in one City to flie to another Matth. 10.23 but never requires his followers to forsake their habitations because neer wicked neighbours As for that 1 Cor. 5. touching the incestuous person it is uncharitably managed by you for separation from Protestant Churches who contend for the excommunicating of scandalous persons to their power But it commeth too close to YOUR OWN DOOR verbum sapienti sat The other Texts you mention set forth the danger of society and intimate converse and communion with Idolaters but fasten not upon us because our Churches are not Idolatrous nor our worship strange worship not grounded upon the Word as shall bee made appear In what you alledge of Stephens bearing testimony against the National Church of the Jews and so consequently as you would bee understood against all National Churches as inconsistent with Gospel times the consequence follows not by Stephens Logick but your own For how doth it appear that because hee preached against the Temple and the Ceremonial-Law as things which had an end put to them by the death of Christ therefore hee preached against a National Church as inconsistent with Gospel times in respect of the Nationality of it Or that a National Church purely in respect of its Nationality considered without the adjuncts of one single person as the head of it and one single place of worship to which all should repaire at some set time for you know wee plead not for these things but acknowledge them to have been peculiar to the Church of the Jews is contrary to the institution of Christ and his Apostles in the New Testament If it bee said wee have no example of a National Church in the time of the Apostles nor yet in the times of the primitive Church This cannot bee an objection of weight For in those times whole Nations were not converted to the profession of the Gospel and Magistrates in most of them were bloody persecutors of the Christian profession But yet See Divine right of the Ministery of England p. 12. 13. 1 Wee have both prophecies and promises in the Old Testament of National Churches under the Gospel Psa 72.10 11 17. and Isa 19.18 to the end Here 't is prophecied and promised that Nations shall serve God and bee his people and that they shall combine and hold communion with one another for the better carrying on of Gods service and worship and God approveth of them and blesseth them upon that account 2 There have been National Christian Churches in the world since the primitive times according to the Apostle Johns historical prophecie Rev. 12.7 8 9. wee have a short description of the Heathen Emperours See History of the life of Constantine Maxentius Licinus Maximius overthrown by the victorious armes of Constantine the Great the Man-child that the Church brought forth and now saies verse 10. is come salvation and strength and the Kingdome of our God and the power of his Christ to wit brought into the Roman Empire Persecutors Idolatry and Heresie being suppressed and Christian religion countenanced professed promoted by the godly zeal of Constantine in his dominions Again Rev. 11. Wee have a description of the downfall of Antichrist verse 13. the tenth part of the City fell many of the places under the Roman jurisdiction cast off the Pope then it followes verse 15. The Kingdomes of this world are become the Kingdomes of the Lord and of his Christ The Kingdomes which before were the Kingdomes of the Beast become professedly subject to the Laws of Christ and embrace his Gospel which our eyes have been so happy as in part to see And indeed considering that the Nationality of a Church lies properly in this that the body of a Nation living under one Civil Government and professing the Gospel should have one way of Doctrine and Worship established in all the Congregations of it and one way of Government by greater and lesser Assemblies how such a constitution as this should bee contrary to the mind of God concerning Churches under the New Testament I do not see nor beleeve any man can demonstrate SECT IV. Of Parish Churches Ministers maintenance the Churches of England the Witnesses and Separation I Shall now explain what I mean by

Independents understood that in 1 Cor. 5. the Apostle wraps up Elders and People together in the exercise of Discipline with a concurrence of the like nature nor hath any Church during that time that wee read of unless those of the Donatists practised by it And therefore well may Beza say Quod nounulli ex hac vocula congregatis colligunt Beza in locum totius Ecclesiae coetum in judiciis omnibus Ecclesiasticis convenisse suffragium tulisse neque ratione neque ullo exemplo nititur excommunicationis jus penes Pastores 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fuit What difference between the Episcopal and Presbyterial Government wherein doth their constitution differ P. 45 46 47 48 except in the exorbitant power of a chair-man What difference between the Universal Church of the Papists and that of the Presbyterians There is an easie transition from Presbytery to Episcopacy yea Papacy they agree much in nature and therefore I have put them together as also Mr. Bains Diocesan Tryal q. 1. p. 21. Those who subject themselves to a Presbytery saith hee as being under it by subordination may in effect as well be subject to an Episcopal and by consequence I say to a Papal consistory Os hominis With what face can Mr. P. put these questions Do the Episcopal and Presbyterial Government differ onely in regard of the power of a chair-man Do not the patrons of the former attribute all power to the Bishop in his Dioces excluding the Ministers of the several Congregations in matters of Discipline And do not the Presbyterians assert that all Ministers have equal power and is this difference onely circumstantial and the transition from one to the other so easie And as to the Universal Church is not the difference between Papists and Presbyterians vast whilst the one do restrain it to the Romanists that own the Papal doctrines the other extend it to all that embrace the fundamental truths of Christian Religion and renounce the abominations of Rome is Mr. P. so mean a scholar that hee doth not know as to the point in hand what Universal and particular are Doth not the Papists referring the root and head of their Universality to Rome make their Church a particular Church as our Champions against them have fully evinced and is this no considerable difference that the Presbyterians do the contrary The one subject it to the Pope or to a general Council of Pontificial Bishops convened by and presided in by the Pope The others to a general Council of the Elders of the Christian Churches throughout the world assembling in the name of Christ as the sole head of the Church Did I love to recriminate might I not with more reason say that Mr. P's way borders upon and that there is an easie transition from it to Donatism Brownism Anabaptism Familism Quakism Libertinism and confusion and that it opens a door to the setting up and nourishing of all sects errours heresies false worship and blasphemies even the Roman themselves For under the notion of Independentism of that degree as his is especially may any thing shelter it self and therefore the Roman Factors usually say that in England Presbyterianism is a great hinderance but Independentism a wonderful help to them in their gaining Proselytes to the Roman Church But if you were resolved to say your worst of Presbyterians as the greatest opposers of your Democracy yet why must you abuse the Reverend name of Mr. Bains whom you pretend to bee altogether of your side and obtrude upon the Reader a palpable untruth concerning his concent with you in putting Episcopacy and Presbytery together as having little or no difference between them It is not Mr. Bains that puts Episcopacy and Presbytery together but the Objection of the Episcopal party p. 3. which Mr. Bains answers here p. 21. and in his answers repeats the terms of the Objection and shews the invalidity of it 1 By telling them that they mis-apprehended the practice of the Churches of Geneva They have saies hee power of governing themselves but for greater edification voluntarily confederate not to use nor exercise their power but with mutual communication in that common Presbytery 2 It is saith hee one thing for Churches to subject themselves to a Bishop and Consistory wherein they shall have no power of suffrage another thing to communicate with such a Presbytery wherein themselves are members and Judges with others 3 Say saies hee they had no power nor were no members in that Presbytery yet it is one thing to submit themselves to the government of Aristocracy another to the Bishops Monarchical Government for while his Presbyters are but as Counsellers to a King though hee consulteth with them hee alone governeth Let the Reader now judge whether Mr. P. hath Mr. Bains on his side in saying What difference between the Episcopal and Presbyterial Government and whether hee hath ground to say that because they agree much in nature Mr. Bains hath put them together when as they are his Objectors that do it whom hee answers and confutes This makes mee remember a pleasant passage in Kekermans Eccles Rhet. l. 2. c. ult A young Theologue reciting his Postil to the people at a time when there was health within their walls and inveighing therein against some sins broke out at last into this expression hence it is that God hath visited you and your families with the plague which rageth already every where in our streets The people stood amazed at this report and when Sermon was ended the Praetor of the place enquired of the Preacher in what families or houses the plague was broken forth who answered whether the plague bee in our Town or not so I found it it in my Postil Such an account is Mr. P. able to give of Mr. Bains his consent with him in putting Presbytery and Episcopacy together as having no difference between them in their constitution Whether the words of the Objection which put them together bee Mr. Bains words or express his mind or not hee found them printed in his book And now because Mr. P. by mentioning thus Mr. Bains doth intimate to the Reader that his doctrine hath a full friend in him It is to bee considered that though Mr. Bains in his dispute against and opposition to Diocesan Episcopal Churches doth plead for Independency of Churches yet as hee judged the difference between Episcopacy and Presbyterial dependent Government very great So doth hee fully declare against that Democratical Government in Churches which most of the Independents of our daies and Mr. P. among them do plead for and doth very fully assert the whole power of Government into the hands of the Elders in many places of that book I shall cite some of them to make Mr. P. do penance P. 80. on Matth. 18. Christ doth not by the name of Church understand essentially all the Congregation for then Christ should not give some but all the members of the Church to

Subjects must be guided And therefore your flourishing insinuations of the contrary are very uncharitable and vain Wee wish that those golden verses Deut. 17.18 19 20. were written in the hearts and transcribed in the lives of all Christian Princes Wee acknowledge that Magistrates have no power to create new Laws for the Government of the Church contrary to the Divine pattern laid down in the Word But have not Magistrates power to make Penal Laws to inforce obedience to the Law of God in matters of Ecclesiastical concernment Your book doth in effect deny them all power For the Magistrates Power in matters of Religion Consider 1. The light of Nature pleads for it It hath taught Heathen Princes to interpose their Power in matters of Religion and their people to acknowledge it Scripture examples clearly evince this which God seals with his approbation Ezra 7. 25 26 27. Dan. 3.29 Jonah 3.6 c. And Heathens generally have looked upon the blessing of God upon States and people as a consequent of their care and zeal for Religion 2 The Magistrates and Kings of Israel had and exercised power in matters of Religion Moses and Joshuah had so Exod. 32.27 28. Josh 5.2 c. Josh 24.14 to 29. So it was with the Judges 1 Sam. 7.3 4. And the Kings succeeded the Judges herein as that which God called them to Psa 78.70 71 72. Pascant reges principes suos subditor primum coelesti doctrina hoc est curent recte doceri ecclesiam prohibeant idololattiam superstitiosos cultus extirpent errores in ecclesia compescant blasphemos conferant opes ad conservationem ministerii studiorum necessariorum Deinde current etiam corpora subditorum Moller in locum He took him from the sheepfold to feed Jacob his people and Israel his inheritance Not only to protect them in their Civil immunities and priviledges But to feed or see them fed with heavenly Doctrine pure Ordinances and Worship to countenance true Religion and extirpate Idolatry This is the principal part of a Kings Office in reference to Gods inheritance So did David So did all other good Kings and Rulers feed Israel 2 Chro. 14.17 29 30 31. Chapters and Nehem. 13. And Gods frequent complaints against the Kings of Israel for not so doing are pregnant proofs of their power in matters of Religion 3 Under the Gospel the Christian Magistrate as such hath answerably power in matters of Religion For 1. All those Texts wherein this power of the Magistrate under the Law is made out whether by way of Precept approved example or blame for not exercising it shew the duty and Power of Magistrates under the Gospel Since we no where find the charge that God then laid upon those repealed or taken off in relation to these 2. The Commission of the Christian Magistrate as such is not onely as authentique but every whit as large as that of the Jewish Magistrate Rom. 13.1 2 3 4. 1 Tim. 2.1 2. Titus 3.1 1 Pet. 2.13 14. Here Magistrates are said to be sent and ordained of God Mali nomen comprehendit etiam omne quod circa sacra committi● tu● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 bonum qualecunque Grot. de imper Sum potest The end for and work about which they are sent and ordained is to punish evil and encourage good works The comprehensivenesse of those expressions shews plainly that the Magistrates power refers even to Religious concernments Wee must not distinguish where the Law doth not If therefore to blaspheme the name of God break the Sabbath c. bee evil works they fall under the Sword of the Civill Magistrate no lesse than Murder or Adultery and so the Magistrate is custos utriusque Tabulae the keeper of both the Tables of the Law Therefore wee are commanded to obey them as Ministers of God for good resisting their lawful commands is called a resisting of God and wee must pray for them that under them as Rulers wee may live in all Piety towards God as well as in all Righteousnesse towards men 3 The same reasons from the object which required the interposition of the Magistrates power in matters of Religion under the Law are of as much force under the Gospel Mens spirits are as licentious and prone to seduce people now as then The name of God is as much blasphemed by damnable heretical Doctrines Men are as apt to bee seduced by the subtle craftiness of those that lye in waite to deceive All m●ans without the Magistrates sword are as ineffectuall Will such as decry all Churches deny Christ's Deity and the Scriptures to be our Rule care for a bare Church-censure 4 The judgement of the Ancients Si omnis vestra Quis vos excipit ab Universitate Bern. ad Archiep that lived near the time of Christ and of the reformed Churches in these last ages is fully for it The Fathers generally assert it Chrysostome infers from Rom. 13.1 That even Apostles Evangelists and Prophets were bound to bee subject to the Magistrate Constantine was termed the Maintainer of Faith and Religion Kings saith Austin Serve God as they are men one way as Kings another As men they serve God by a faithful obedience to his Laws But as Kings they serve God by commanding things just Aug. ad Bonif. and prohibiting the unlawful restraining them with convenient rigour making and putting Laws in execution for beating down sin and promoting Gods glory Thus Hezekiah thus Josiah served God and thus Kings become nursing fathers and Queens Nursing Mothers to the Church as it was promised Isa 49.23 60.16 The Confessions of the Reformed Churches are exceeding full and unanimous in this point See Corpus Conf. And most of the Brethren of the Congregational way have seemed to bee suffragators to them herein Plat-form of Church government ch 17. Those of New-England are very expresse for it And our five Apologists for that way courted once the Magistrate to beleeve that their opinion allowed him more power in matters of Religion than the judgement of others To the Magistrates power say they wee give as much and as wee think more than the principle Apologetical Narratio● p. 19. 〈◊〉 the Presbyterial Government will suffer them to yeild which how it may be I understand not unlesse in a sense in the which I would not understand it by giving it more than the principles of their own government will suffer them to yeild So that the Churches in all ages are agreeed that the Magistrate hath power in matters of Religion Neque enim aliud aut belli laboribus aut pacis consilits ordinamus nisi ut verum Dei cultum Orbis nostri plebs devota custodiat Theod. Honor ad Marcel Caesarei est muneris ut non solum pacifie sed pie etiam subditi vivant Theod. ad Cyril against which stand onely a small company of dissenters muchly led by Anabaptistical unscriptural principles And accordingly the first

whose examples are preceptive to Christian Magistrates now And shall wee think that God bears a less tender respect to a Gospel than to a Legal Ministery neither appointing them a certain maintenance nor means to raise it if it bee with-held 2 Dependance upon voluntary contributions is the ready way to tempt Ministers to bee the greatest temporizers in the world since it will force many of them to please their givers or starve 3 Duties required of Ministers under the Gospel call for a liberal and certain maintenance They must bee given to hospitality But they cannot exercise it without a maintenance liberal and certain 4 That command to hearers of the Gospel Gal. 6.6 7. leaves not men to their liberty but chargeth a duty upon their consciences which they cannot neglect without mocking God 5 Ministers may require this maintenance in an authoritative way as an absolute due debt for their work in the Ministery 1 Cor. 9.11 12 13 14. Now a liberal maintenance being by Gods Ordinance due to the Gospel Ministery what hinders but that the fixing of it should bee a lawful yea a necessary means for their injoying of it Before there were any Christian Magistrates in the world the revenue of the Church was not altogether unsetled Constantine the first Christian Emperour being come to the Crown enacts that the Church Lands or goods that had been injuriously taken away though annext to his own Crown should bee restored that such as had purchased Church-Lands should make present restitution of the same These lands and possessions were 't is probable long before purchased out of the publick bank of the mony laid at the Apostles feet and other charitable donations since that time and setled upon the Church that so Ministers having some certain maintenance might serve God in their places with the less distraction And therefore the building Oratories and Churches and endowing them with maintenance for the certain support of fixed Ministers which you make the object of your contempt appears to bee in it self considered a lively imitation of primitive practice These things considered I demand 1 Where a maintenance is already established and hath been so for many hundreds of years together and that by as firme Laws as any man hath for his personal estate Whether now the Magistrate may not animate those Laws and make meet new ones for the due payment of that established maintenance as Hezekiah did 1 Chron. 31.4 2 Where maintenance is wanting whether the Magistrate may not provide and settle it by a levy upon the people Seeing 't is Gods ordinance there should bee a liberal maintenance and that many people if left to themselves will rather want the Gospel than bee at charge for it and that it is a duty incumbent on the Christian Magistrate to provide for the good of mens souls and for the continuance support and incouragement of the Ministery for that end But to returne to Parish-Churches you say Consider what Babels of confusion and superstition they bee Here you may see Saints and sinners jumbled together without any kindly separation of the precious from the vile Great care that all may bee consecrated but the worshippers Are they not given unto the Gentiles P. 13 19 20 do not men of uncircumcised hearts for so are the Major part in those Churches stand seized of the power of the keyes Let us say to those christened Gentiles that upon pretence of being of the same Religion and Church with us would interess themselves in rebuilding our Gospel-Temple as the Jews did to the Samaritanes Ezra 4.1 2 3. Specious arguments to take ignorant persons 'T is common with those of your way to argue against the Church-state of Churches from the corruptions in manners which are found in them Whereas the Scripture every where declares such an arguing to bee of no force witness its owning the Church of the Jews as such under its great and severely reprovered corruptions So the degenrate Churches of Asia dead Sardis and lukewarme and miserable Laodicea If a man fix his eye on those Churches under their then condition and apply your charge to them as hee may and thence conclude that they were no true Chruches will hee not contradict the holy Ghost and the Truth and what then doth your arguing prove Whatever corruption is in out Churches wee make as much the matter of our grief as you of your scorn and are as ready to bear witness against it as your self But not with you to incourage the sin of separation but to advance the duty of reformation This many Church-guides do zealously indeavour after in our Churches so unjust is your charge generally fastened upon them that they take care all may bee consecrated but the worshippers and that they make no kindly separation of the precious from the vile You seem to make use of a bad rule Calumniare fort it er aliquid haerebit Your own knowledge of the contrary to your charge in many Parish-Congregations should make you blush for these expressions And truly that they are no more reformed and others in no way for reformation may bee as much ascribed to the practices of your self and many of your way in drawing off from them helpful members and hindring endeavours for healing and restauration as to any other single cause yea as to many of them put together And had not men of your way in a time when uniformity in worship according to the Word was about to have been established by the Magistrate in the Churches of England hindered that good work 't is very probable that reformation had been much forwarded in our Churches at this day and many of our civil shakings and overturnings prevented thereby Your comparing of those that comply not with your opinion in matter of Church-State and Government to the Idolatrous Samaritans and loading them with the opprobrious name of christened Gentiles is very devoid of modesty and truth Many Church-guides in our Congregations are as free from the least taint of Superstition as any of your way And for the members of our Churches who have been baptized in them and owne their Baptisme though the most of them do not appear to bee godly yet they differ very much from Heathens being taken into an external Covenant with God and in the number of those that are called And are as much the people of God as sometime formal and prophane Israelites were the estate of the Gentiles at this day to whom the ordinances are given being not inferiour to that of Israelites of old Rom. 11.17 And therefore as the Infants of the Israelites had generally right to Circumcision So have the children of Professors of Christianity owning their Baptisme though corrupt in their conversation but promising reformation right to Baptisme Else were the grace of God streighter under the Gospel than before Christ was exhibited in the flesh which cannot bee But you have this more against our Churches that men of uncircumcised

swerving from his institution as of those that seek him in a way conformable to his Institution I suppose you will answer negatively But now through Gods goodness wee are able to say that God is and hath been as much found of us in our Churches and way and our Ministers have received as glorious a seal of their Ministery as any Churches that wee know of since the Apostles daies and farre more than our Congregational Brethren themselves in their way who although they deal out this hard measure to us to cry down our Ministery and Churches as Antichristian owe most of them that are renewed their conversion unto God unto our Ministery as the instrument for it in Gods hand themselves being Judges Though they had ten thousand Independent Instructors yet could they not say they are their Fathers for in Christ Jesus the Ministery of our Churches hath begotten them to the Gospel If I am become a fool in glorying they have compelled mee Object 4 But there may be and hath been good done this way errours suppressed c. and those that reject it now P. 61. made use of it once Answ The good that God brings out of evil is not to be construed into a divine approbation of it Nor the use that hath been made by good men of a false way of Churches to bee drawn into an argument to continue in it Answ What good there hath been done by reformed Churches few can bee ignorant of What good hath been done by Independent Churches hath not yet much appeared That some of their flocks are pure they owe to our Churches as hath been said Errours have been indeed suppressed by ours but not by theirs it appears therefore they have made but a bad exchange but cherished by many of them who have been to them as Cities of refuge and out of which they have swarmed abundantly into all parts of the Land and for this the Land groans And thinks Mr. P. to put off this so sleightly with his begged supposition of the truth of the Churches of his way and the falseness of ours Surely the beating down of errour and the promoting of truth is no contemptible note of a true Church though some corruptions bee found in it Rev. 2.2 4. and on the contrary c. That those that owned our Churches once have now rejected them I judge from the word to be their sin They should have continued in them since Christ hath not divorced them though he hath somewhat against them and have indeavoured to reform them But they have not laboured to heal yea they have widened and encreased our wounds and then they insult over us Antichristianize us separate from us and draw away the best of our flocks boasting in other mens lines of things made ready to their hands The Lord judge between us and them Object 5. and 6. But shall wee do it without the authority of the Magistrate P. 62 63 64 without the consent of the Church Answ That which is pressed is but the doing of the duty that lies upon every Christian to separate from unwarrantable societies The Text hath no such proviso if the Magistrate bid or give you leave then come out of Babylon Therefore wee are to resolve with Peter Martyr and with Wollebius c. After God hath made known his truth saies the first wee must not delay Consent indeed is to be expected if the matter be dubious and obscure to wit to him to whom it is revealed as the course of his speech makes manifest Answ The Magistrate is as no body with you unless you have him on your side and then you can change your note But wee hold that very much respect is to bee had to the Magistrate in this matter and all means possible are to bee used to ingage the Magistrate to carry on the work of Reformation Give mee but one example in all the Old Testament of any considerable reformation in the Church without the interposition of the power of the Magistrate or one example of it in Ecclesiastical history in a time when there were Christian Magistrates Can our Magistrates endure that their authority and power should bee contemned as it is I hope they will not but that they will exert it for the good of the Church in discountenancing restraining and punishing men of corrupt minds principles and practices leading to separation blasphemies errours and rebellion sheltring themselves under this notion that the Magistrate hath nothing to do with Church-matters and that all men are therein to bee left to their liberty and the dictates of their own spirits The places that you pick out of Martyr and Wollebius favour not your fancy The place of Wollebius taken in his sense I readily yeeld to That when Religion is depraved it is to bee reformed by the Magistrate But if reformation cannot be obtained of the Magistrate hee being an enemy to the Church then reformation lies upon those whom God hath furnished with necessary gifts for it neither is the consent of Roman Bishops to bee expected for if our Fathers had done so saies hee there would have been no reformation And hee produceth the examples of Gideon Jehoiada the Maccabes the Apostles c. to make good his assertion Now when you shall have proved 1 That the supreme Magistrate is an enemy of Religion the Church and reformation 2 That the way of reformation you contend for is indeed the way of God 3 That all lawful means have been used and notwithstanding reformation cannot be obtained at the Magistrates hands 4 That Englands condition and the State of the Church in the time of Gideon Jehoiada the Maccabes the Apostles and Protestant reformers are alike 5 That you have Instruments that have the like call from God and are furnished with such abilities for reforming as they had and were Then I confess this place will speak something for you 6 The reformation Wollebius speaks of referres chiefly to essentials in Religion and that hee is an Antagonist to your way of separation from reformed Churches appears sufficiently in his book Martyr you much mistake also 1 The reformation hee presseth referres chiefly to fundamentals in Religion 2 Those whose consent hee saies was not to bee expected were the Roman Bishops whom hee calls sworn enemies to the truth 3 Hee doth not incite and stirre up the people to set upon the work without the consent of the Magistrate but the inferiour Magistrates to endeavour in their places a reformation of Religion in banishing the impure Masse out of their Cities c. and how doth this reach your case 4 The cause hee saies was clear and such as was confessed to be Gods and delaies might indanger the loss of a good cause Consent indeed saies hee is to be expected if the matter bee dubious and obscure And here you bring in your shameful Parenthesis to wit to whom it is revealed which Parenthesis spoils and abuseth Peter Martyrs Text For his

words clearly import to any man that will read there that the cause was not onely clear unto them whom hee endeavours to interest in carrying on the work of reformation but clear in it self and not as to its matter dubious and obscure being such as all the Churches on earth but the Romish would own For shame leave off your abusing of Authors at which work I have caught you more than once or twice in this Treatise Again your Parenthesis is full fraught with all seeds of Rebellion against the State as well as of confusion in the Church of God For if men may freely follow the apprehensions of their own misguided judgements and deluded fancies against the mind of the Magistrate and consent of the Church of God How shall our Religion or Liberties Persons Estates or Lives bee secured to us Probably the late fift-Monarchy-Traitours had read your Treatise I find a harmony between their remonstrance and your book in many passages and I am sure they will assert the cause they undertook was clear to them and then your parenthesis bears them out they needed not to expect any consent You now conclude notwithstanding all Objections Let those whose hearts God hath raised up go up and build his house Get wee our brethren p. 64. if we can along with us but let us not delay our duty Indeed reformation-work is blessed work but people had need to have better guides than you in it lest they mistake their way and whilst they think they are flying from Babylon they fly indeed into it for thither your way drives though I suppose you perceive it not Babylon and you are farther agreed than all men are aware of 1 The Pope cries down all Churches as Antichristian and heretical but his own especially Protestant Churches Mr. P. proclaimes all Churches that are not of his way to bee Antichristian and especially the Western reformed Churches called Protestants to bee Babylon-Harlots c. 2 Mr. P. is an earnest contender for Democratical and against Presbyterial Government The Pope hee hates a Scripture Presbytery at his heart but favours by his agents Democratical government hoping to work out his own designes by it And therefore his disguised Agents insinuate into Independent congregations and strengthen them in their way of independency and separation as that which best helps on their work and gives them the greatest advantage for the sowing of their bad seed Hence have proceeded from such Congregations Anabaptists c. with Popish doctrines and arguments in their mouths Therefore let Mr. P. beware lest a blind zeal betray him and that instead of a Reformer hee prove a Deformer leading men to Rome whilst hee calls upon them to come out of it for men of his understanding spirit and confidence are usually in danger to prove such in the end Consider wee now his reasons for separation from our Churches The Reasons of the point are 1 Because Antichrists Churches are sin The great Beast spoken of Rev. 13 1 2. is the Vniversal visible Church of Rome It cannot bee meant of the Roman Pagan nor Christian Empire nor of Antichrist which is the other beast vers 11. hee is one of the heads but not the Beast it self Antichrist causeth an image to be made to the first Beast vers 14. that is to set a Church in every Nation c. that may have the likenesse of the Roman Church viz. Metropolitan National Diocesan Cathedral and Provincial Churches as Mr. Cotton shews on Rev. 13. and these are the living Characters of the first Beast the Catholick visible Church of Rome and so the image and the Parishes are but reliques of them Protestant Churches are it seems Antichrist his Churches and SIN in the abstract if Mr. P. may bee judge If hee can prove them to bee so they are no doubt to bee separated from but hitherto hee hath not come neer it Here hee seems to summe up his grounds of so bold an assertion which arise from an interpretation of Rev. 13. This Chapter hath alwaies much perplext Interpreters to make out what is meant by these two Beasts both because of what is said of them and because they seem to bee spoken of as but one Beast vers 18. and chap. 17. Some will have the first Beast to bee the Roman Pagan Empire the second the Pope But the stream of Interpreters generally understand them to bee one and the same beast the Pope of Rome under a double notion and Bellarmine himself Per unam exprimitur Antichristus ratione Regiae potestatis tyrannidis per alteram ratione magicae artis qua callidè homines seducet judgeth that the same Antichrist is meant by both indifferent respects But however it be it may easily bee made to appear that the first beast cannot mean as Mr. Cotton and Mr. P. from him would have it the Catholick visible Church of Rome 1 Because such a Church supposeth an Vniversal visible head for these are relates But there was no universal visible head untill long after the time of the wound which Mr. Cotton mentions the year 415 For Phocas conferred the universal headship on Boniface the third in the year 606. and not long before that Gregory disclaimeth such a title and power 2 Because the setting of Diocesan c. See the end of Sect. 5. Churches in every nation cannot bee a making of an Image to the Catholick visible Church of Rome Since these as Papal are parts of that Church and help to make it up And that the Image will then bee more perfect than the Original or pattern For the Catholick visible Church of Rome was never such in that manner and measure before as after the wound Yea the Visible Catholickness of the Church of Rome hath little or no appearance at all in Historie before that time of the wound 3 Because the things predicated of this first Beast vers 2. are no way applicable to the Catholick visible Church of Rome especially before that time of the wound The power of a Bear and of a Lyon and of the Dragon giving it his seat and great authority cannot bee found in History to have been possessed and exercised by the Catholick Visible Church of Rome before that time And a man must speak meer dreams that will undertake to make what is said of the first Beast unto the rise of the second vers 11. to suit to the universal Visible Church of Rome before that rising of the second 4 Because the Text expresly distinguisheth between the Beast that exerciseth Soveraign rule and authority and those that are under his rule and Government Hee is set forth vers 1 2 3 4 5 6 7. Those under his rule are set forth by their admiring of him and worshipping and subjecting to him vers 3 4 7 8. and these make up the Roman Catholick Visible Church Mr. P's foundation therefore is found to bee null and so consequently his inferences from it fall to

them to the uttermost neglect of means to reform them separating from them as fast as they can yea while and when they are reforming drawing away others lest they should help to reform them and proclaiming them to bee Antichristian and wholely to bee rased bee requisite indeavours to cure them and that destroying of them bee curing of them Nay 't is sufficiently known to those that have acquainted themselves with the carriages of our and their Church-guides in these late years that when overtures were made by ours for an accommodation and for unity in reformation upon Scripture principles it was refused and the hopeful beginnings of it broken off by them Yet I must not be so much a Disciple of Mr. P. as to say that they were stubborn therein though there bee much moer ground to say it of them than of us False also it is to say Universally that Protestant Churches are not cured by indeavours put forth for their cure For though not by Independents I confesse yet by the indeavours of many zealous Protestants much of that which looked like something of Rome and was more according to the Traditions of men than the word of God hath been removed and in particular in our Land which notwithstanding the prejudice Mr. P. is overgrown with hee cannot I suppose but acknowledge I confesse much of corruption there is remaining but such as cannot by the rule of the Word deprive Protestant Churches of their Church-state or render it Antichristian What hee saith next That none of those that would have a thorough Reformation dare take their whole Parish along with them to the work as it is nothing to his purpose for corruption in manners proves not a Church to bee Antichristian so it is ridiculously propounded For though a godly Minister that is a Pastor to a Parish-Congregation think not all in a meetness for the Lords-Supper nor admits them all to it yet it follows not that hee takes not the whole Parish-Congregation along with him to the work of Reformation considering it in a Scriptural sense Hee may speak to all admonish all instruct all and indeavour to reform all though hee administer the Supper onely to those who are fit for it and it is one of Mr. P's Slanders to say as hee doth of our Ministers that they lay aside the most of their people as the Jews the Samaritans for they own their membership tell them in relation to the Supper they have a Fundamental right though not a proximate right to present participation being as yet unfit receive them to all Ordinances that they are capable to profit by and exhort them to labour in the use of means for fitnesse for the use of all Ordinances and then they shall rejoyce to administer even the Lords Supper to them and is this to lay them aside as the Jews the Samaritans No more than the keeping from the Passeover under the Law those that were judged by the Law to bee in a present incapacity to use it But the mans head is full of his Democracy which makes him measure us by his principle and think that those whom wee admit to full communion wee admit to exercise the power of the Keyes also which makes him talk of taking them along with us to the work of reformation and admitting them to the management of that matter and that those that are not admitted to all Ordinances are quite laid aside because 't is so with him To his Query Why should they bee washed at the same laver at least their children that may not eat at the same Table If hee bee ignorant of our answers to it let him read them in those many Tracts that have them and if hee bee not ignorant of them why puts hee the Question and that without answering our arguments for this practice Some men will ask why though they have been told why a hundred times and can say nothing that is worth hearing against it His inference from his sorry Reasons the words of which hee borroweth from that famous assertour of Reformed Churches the Lord Du Plessis is a farther evidence of his weakness mistakes and impudence Our Churches this man brands every where as Antichristian and Babylon it self but not one argument of weight doth hee bring to prove it Neither answers hee the solid arguments of the godly-learned condemning separation from our Churches as no true Churches for a grievous sin which indeed should have been properly his work since hee had an itch to write in regard hee stands charged by those writings with this sinne But this belike hee finds too hard a task and that it is easier to lay on than to take off charges and wee must not blame a man for not undertaking what hee cannot perform and so instead of answering their arguments sometimes hee wrests their words and perverts their sence to make it serve his turn Sometimes abuseth their expressions for separation from Rome by pressing them for the service of his unscriptural separation from reformed Churches as he shamefully doth here those of this champion of the reformed Churches Did ever Du Plessis think that his exhortation to separation from Rome should have been so much polluted and abused as to bee managed for separation from Reformed Churches or that the World would have produced a writer so absurd as to account reformed Churches to bee yet in and of and the Babylon it self How could hee if hee had any forehead left him so much as name that woruhy Champion of the Protestant Churches when hee exhorts to separation from them But we shall have a worse carriage of this nature to look upon at the end of his book SECT VII Of Mr. P's Injunctions to the Magistrate and first concerning Parishes Parish-Temples and Patrons P. 69. c. BEE wise O yee Kings be instructed yee Judges of the earth Take away Parishes by an Act of State away with all those Consecrated places for worship Away with Patrons or Lay-founders Away with Tithes c. Away I say with all appurtenances of a parish-Parish-Church Can this be Mr. P's voyce I mean not in regard of the imperiousness of it for there is no ground to doubt it to be his on that account but appealing in matters that concern Religion to the Magistrate whose power he hath so much decried Strange that these worldly Governments whom hee exhorts men in his preface not to accept as Law-givers no not in the Common-wealth and hopes Christ will in due time deliver us from should now be applied to by him for the exercise of their power and that in matters that concern Religion What strange liberty is this that he takes to pul down Magistrates at his pleasure when they stand in his light and set them up again to be his Servants and drive on his designes But possibly he means those Rulers that Mr. Feak and his party of which he hath manifested himself to be would have in place of authority and