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A48816 Considerations touching the true way to suppress popery in this kingdom by making a distinction between men of loyal and disloyal principles in that communion : on occasion whereof is inserted an historical account of the Reformation here in England. Lloyd, William, 1627-1717. 1677 (1677) Wing L2676; ESTC R2677 104,213 180

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to convince him that all their suffering is for Religion and not for treasonable Principles if he instance in that Loyal Person himself and bids him judge by his own experience he cannot but feel himself suffer he knows himself free from disloyalty therefore his suffering can be for nothing else but his Religion He must be a man of more than ordinary Abstraction that can discern the fallacy of this reasoning And he that cannot find that had need stop his ears with a resolution to hear nothing against the Government or else the Jesuite will be too hard for him He had need be as resolute in his Loyalty as in his Religion For the proof being made as well to his Sense as to his Reason it looks like an Argument against Transubstantiation If the person so attack'd be a very Iob in holding his integrity if no Argument will move him nor no other temptation draw him from it Yet he must yield to Want which can neither be hid nor resisted There are many good men that live from hand to mouth and that hardly enough while they enjoy their Estates If any of these be deprived of so much as the Law would take from him he cannot live with that which he has left And then if a Pension be offer'd him out of the Jesuites Bank or out of the Pope's Coffers he will scarce know how to refuse it Necessity will make a generous man do that which he would hate to think of in better circumstances And having eaten their bread he will find it a hard matter to keep himself disengag'd from their Interests Much more if he suffer himself once to be engag'd he will find it impossible to untwist himself afterwards And 't is next to impossible for him that has been oblig'd by their benefits and as it were listed in Service and taken pay on the Enemies side to have any kindness left for his Country that drove him to all this I know but one instance that of David in Gath of a man that was put to all these streights and yet not corrupted in his Principles I shew but one way of many how men that are very good Subjects and desire nothing more than to continue so may be spoil'd with hard usage and made Enemies against their Inclinations Which being added to those things said before on this head may be more than enough to make good my third Reason against an undistinguishing execution of the Laws on Roman Catholicks as being against the interest of the Church and State of England And this seems so evident to me that I have no manner of doubt that as the best news we could send to Rome would be of a general Toleration of all Religions and Sects whatsoever so next to that which I know would please them best the most welcome news would be to assure them that all the Laws here in England against Roman Catholicks were severely and indifferently put in execution And I am as sure that nothing would trouble them more than to hear of such a Discrimination or Distinction of Roman Catholicks as I come now to propound For now to speak on the Affirmative side of the Debate this seems to be the only way for suppressing of Popery if the State will be pleas'd to distinguish btween Papists and other Roman Catholicks and so to shew favour to the one upon security given of their Loyalty as that the other who will not give that security may have no part of that favour but be left to the severity of all those Laws that have been or shall be made against their Principles and Practices My Reasons are 1. Because this course being taken would be effectual to the end above-mentioned 2. It would be equitable in it self 3. And it would be for the interest of the Church and State of England I shew'd before that the undistinguishing way had not any of those three properties or qualities Now the way which I propound being contrary to it must have all the three by the Rule of Contraries and I conceive I need no other proof But to make the matter more plain I shall resume these three Reasons and prove them severally in the order propos'd 1. This course would be Effectual For it would take away the causes of Popery The only immediate causes which have either propagated or preserved Popery so long in this Kingdom notwithstanding all Laws that have been made against it as well anciently as of late times are chiefly these two On one side the great boldness and business of the truly Popish Clergy in asserting and crying up all Papal pretences whatsoever On the other side the tameness of the other Clergy of that Communion or whatsoever else their fault is and has been in not opposing those Papal pretences For the former of these I think 't is very visible in all the Iesuites that come among us and in most of the other Regular Orders and not a few of the Seculars that their chief business amongst us is to advance the Pope's Authority in all things and to reduce all men under the obedience of it 'T is true they have not yet seen their time to attempt this by open War They have not set up the holy Banner in England and plac'd the Pope's Nuncio in the head of an Army against the King as their Brethren did in Ireland and do not repent of it But neither will our Popish Clergy say that those in Ireland did ill in it They have neither declared their dislike of that Rebellion by any publick act Nor among all the Books they have writ since the King's Restauration has any one of their Writers writ so much as one line against it that ever I could see or hear of But their Books abound with those principles out of which that Rebellion was hatch'd They are slily insinuated in those which are to be had at every Stall And there are those that pass from hand to hand in which this Treason is the main scope of their writing By which we may guess what wholesome Doctrine it is that they infuse upon occasion in private when they are among their own people What kind of preaching and catechising they use What information of their Penitents What ghostly counsel they give and what loyal directions of Conscience And if we had nothing else to discover them to us we may soon find what kind of spiritual Offices they perform by the Fruit of them in the perversness and obstinacy of so many of their Laity who choose to do or endure any thing rather than take the Oath of Allegiance I deny not that there are other Priests of that Communion who as far as we can judge by their private discourse seem to be rightly principled and well inclined towards the Civil Government There are those that seem to be heartily for the Independency of the Crown of England and that hold that the external Government of the Church ought to be in
Souls Some even of themselves have written of late that no punishment should be inflicted on men for opinions that are not dangerous to the State They who are of this mind have no reason to take offence at this Book because the favour desired in it is for Persons as Innocent in that Respect as themselves And for them that think Errors are punishable by the State on Account of the hurt that they do to mens Souls they will not find so great occasion of Offence as they may possibly expect For the Author does not plead for any other Exemption of Roman-Catholick than such as will leave them still liable to as much severity as themselves if they are obnoxious to the Laws can think fit to be inflicted on men barely for Differences in Opinion Here is nothing proposed for their Exemption from any Incapacitating Laws or from the Penalties against saying Mass publickly or against their endeavouring to make Proselytes which last thing is Death to Roman-Catholicks and not at all penal to any other These things being considered together their Condition will not be to be envied by any other Dissenters if they should have all the favour that is propounded for them in this Book But the Common Protestant Religion will be better secured by it which ought to satisfie any one that pretends to that Name For that Part which concerns the Controversies it is suggested by another which otherwise the Author could scarce have expected that some may think him too favourable to the Romish Opinions or too much unconcerned for the Defence of other Protestant Churches He does not see how any one that minds what he reads can suspect him of favour to the Principles of the Roman Communion having given sufficient reason why he cannot embrace them without losing his hopes of Salvation In the managing of the Controversie if he seem not to write in the Defence of any other Reformed Church his Answer is that he does not write to the Adversaries of the Reformed Religion in any other than in his Majesties Dominions And if his Defence of our Church be sufficient it will overthrow that Infallibility of the Roman Church by which she pretends a Iurisdiction over all others and by which alone all her particular Impositions are Iustifiable Which will afford an easie Apology to other Churches who do not think themselves oblig'd to submit to those Impositions THE CONTENTS THat there are many false Notions of Popery Page 1. Wherein the true Notion of it consists 2. Viz. Chiefly in owning the Popes pretended Authority and consequently in submitting to his Terms of Communion 3. This proved I. In that all the other points of Popery were establisht by this pretended Authority 5. II. The owning of it is that on which the Papists chiefly insist 7. III. It is the most hurtful to Church and State 13. And therefore worst in Construction of our Laws 18. That there is therefore a real difference between Papists 24. For that they are not properly called so that deny the Popes Supremacy 25. And they that own it in spirituals only are less perfectly Papists than they that own it both in Spirituals and Temporals 26. That accordingly to distinguish between them by Laws is the only true way for the suppressing of Popery 27. That undistinguishing Severity is not the way For I. It is a way that being taken would not be effectual 28. II. It would not seem Iust and Equal 33. III. It would be against the Interest of England 42. And would promote the Roman Interest Pgae 49. A Toleration of all Sects among us would be most pleasing to them at Rome 52. But next to it an undistinguishing Severity against all Roman Catholics 57. That to distinguish between such of them as will give Security to the State and such as will not I. Would be an effectual way to suppress Popery 61. II. That it would be Iust and Equal 71. III. That it would be for the Interest of England 76. It would cause many to fall under the Pope's Censures 78. And thereby give them occasion to consider How groundless the Pope's pretence is to an Authority over us 81. How justly it was thrown out of England by K. Henry VIII 90. And afterward by Q. Elizabeth 108. The Iustifiableness of the Reformation 111. If it should fail of this Effect yet it would make them sure to our Civil Interests 133. Objections against this way of Discrimination as not being Practicable 135. I. The Roman Church and Court are all one in their Principles being obliged to own the Popes Authority 137. 1. in Spiritual things 138. 2. and also in Temporals 144. Answer to this Objection 150. II. They have ways to elude all the Assurance they can give us 152. Answer to this Objection 154. III. We can have no Assurance of their Constancy 158 Answer to this 158 Conclusion 160. The Reader is desired to take notice that the Quotations out of L. Herbert's History of K. Henry VIII were taken at distant times out of two Books of different Edition● and not Paged alike and that this was not observed till those sheets in which the Quotations are had past the Press The ERRATA of any Moment are to be Corrected as follows PAg. 2. lin 13. anciently famous p. 14 l. 25. of this p. 17. l. 31. And yet that p. 29. l. 14 15. no Parenthesis p. 46. l. 33. in the margin Ib. ann 1602. p. 276. p. 47. l. 1. in the margin put out the same words ibid. l. 24. dependance on the. p. 53. l. 33. undistinguishing execution of Laws p. 58. l. 33. convince such a one that all his p. 64. l. 9. in their streets p. 67. l. 27. pretence to the. p. 81. l. 6. Christ he p. 84. l. 14. Churches Epistle to p. 85. margin last line Anno 445. p. 91. l. 8. in margin Schism p. 103. b. Edit 1585. p. 92. l. 19. he would never l. 15. in marg L. Herb. Anno 1529. p. 271. l. 26. in marg the First l. 29. Pallavic Hist. Conc. Trent II. 15.5 p. 94. marg l. 4. Camd. Ib. p. 1. 2. p. 94. l. 20. delays and either p. 100. l. 2. Three p. 101. l. 28. 29. to use his own words p. 102. l. 12. large an account p. 104. l. 29. Particularly should begin a Paragraph p. 107. l. 30. had his Traitorous p. 113. l. 26. in marg Camd. Eliz. p. 13. l. 29. in marg she put out p. 115. l. 30. pass without any Considerations About the true way of Suppressing POPERY IN THIS KINGDOM AMong the ignorant Vulgar there are many false and wild Notions of Popery some of which being admitted to be true would render the Church of England and all other Reformed Churches Popish Other Notions of it would in like manner stigmatize all those Famous Churches in the more remote parts of the World which have not been in Communion with the Pope these eight hundred years And others in the last place
would no less deeply brand those who are most given to asperse others even the wildest of Phanaticks and Enthusiasts themselves as being Popishly principled If it be as sure it is very absurd to charge Popery on those eminent Eastern and Western Churches which ever since the Separation of the one and the Reformation of the other have purged forth and kept themselves free from all that which is properly Popish and have therefore been anathematized by the Pope himself and excluded from the Communion of all those Christians which hold him for their Ecclesiastical Head It must also be no less absurd to charge with Popery those Tenets of Belief and Rites of Worship however false and unnecessary in themselves wherein the Roman Catholick Churches differ from the English Protestant and other Churches of the Reformation but agree with those anciently famous Patriarchical Churches and almost with all other in the remote parts of the World Having thus how briefly soever said what may be sufficient to exclude the many both incongruous and injurious Notions of Popery which also would be insignificant if they were admitted I shall in the next place endeavour to set forth the only true proper and significant notion of it And yet if I be not much deceived 't will be no hard matter to fix upon and shew wherein this only right Notion of Popery does consist The very derivation of the word and obvious reason of the thing necessarily imported thereby may assure us it cannot in a few significant words be describ'd to be either less or more or any way other than An undue adhaesion to the Bishop of Rome in Principles or Practices falsly pretended to be Christian. I say To the Bishop of Rome because he it is that hath for many Ages past appropriated to himself the name of Pope which was formerly common to all Bishops as every one knows that has been conversant in the Writings of the Fathers I say also An undue adhaesion in Principles c. for it 's supposed to be an ill thing that is to be supprest Now it is not ill to confess the Apostles Creed or to do any good thing that he does but to follow him or to joyn with him in any thing that is evil that is chiefly to assert an undue Power or Authority in the Pope such as that which he assumes to himself over the whole Christian Church and consequently to embrace and to practice those Errours and Corruptions whatsoever they are that by virtue of that usurpt Power and Authority he imposes on all those that are or shall be in Communion with him and excommunicates all that will not come to those terms not so much for their Aversness to those Doctrines and Practices as because they will not submit to his Power and Authority Though I must withal observe here as consequential to my former Observation of so many false Notions of Popery that laying aside its Capital Errour viz. That which directly asserts the pretended universal Power of the Pope it is no necessary evil of any inferiour subservient Errours or Practices at least of any of those which are not peculiar to the Roman Church how false or vain soever they be in themselves but the unnecessary embracing them out of pure submission to the usurpt Authority of the Roman Bishop now stiled Pope and the only Pope of the World is it that in any right sense of the word renders them truly Popish And this I must acknowledge to be so whether we regard the Derivation of the word or Reasons of the thing it self I mean those Reasons which evince the only proper significant Notion of Popery to be that which I have given before in the fewest words I could well fix upon to define or describe it What those Reasons are we have as to one part of them seen already by seeing that if Popery be taken otherwise all Christian Churches in the World must be confessedly Popish and as to the other part also we shall now see For now I am to shew that even by the judgment of such as ought best to understand their own Doctrine the very chief thing in Popery is the owning and asserting the Papal Authority Without question there is nothing which they have more driven at from the beginning or which they now more eagerly contend for in the Roman Church and especially the governing part of it as it were easie to shew in many instances but a few will suffice because the matter is so well known to all men of Reading and Experience To begin with the Original of Popery There is nothing more certain and plain in Church-History then that the primitive Christians being generally Subjects of the Roman Empire had a very great respect for the Bishops of Rome because that was the Imperial City And yet it is as plain that those Bishops had no Authority or Jurisdiction out of their own Province that is beyond the suburbicary Region of Italy till after the Division of the Roman Empire into Eastern and Western It was not long after that division and chiefly upon the weakness of the Western Empire that that Power which we now call the Papacy grew up As the Empire decay'd so by degrees it encreased and gathered strength the design being at first not to set up a new Religion but a new Monarchy in the place of the old then expiring The Caesars having made Rome their seat of Empire for so many Ages and being at last driven out by the barbarous Nations it seemed as if the Genius of the place had inspired the Roman Bishops to perk up and to erect a new Empire in the stead Which was no hard thing for them to do being assisted with all manner of advantagious circumstances Having learn'd from their Predecessors to derive their descent from St. Peter how truly it matters not this gave them colour enough to take upon them to be all that he was Their See their Traditions their Dictates were all stiled Apostolical The Popes Title was then His Apostleship for His Holiness was too Vulgar in those days Whatsoever Preheminence or Power those Caesars by their Laws or their Subjects the Christian Bishops in their Councils had given them as being Bishops of the Imperial City when they had gain'd the City wholly to their Devotion and made their party among the barbarous Nations they scorn'd to hold it any longer by gift All that had been so given them and whatsoever they grasp'd more they held it Iure Divino as being Heirs and Successors to St. Peter By this means having shook off their Obligation to Canons and Laws they took upon them to be as Infallible as St. Peter was whose very name they did not stick to usurp when they pleased as if Christ had spoken to them whatsoever he said personally to Cephas And whosoever objected as some always did that those Pretensions were new and that there is no ground for them in
And if they have no Dispensation before hand they can have a Pardon for it afterward For they know where those things are to be had which any honest man though of that Religion abhors either to ask or need And if a Jesuite should have so over-slept himself that he is taken napping with other Catholicks he is sure to have Friends to bring him off If none in England can do it he has them abroad to help If he be put to fly his Country he knows whither to go If he step short and fall into a Prison there at least he is sure not to want either relief or means for his deliverance While the man of Loyal principles if he fall into any of those Circumstances is stuck and knows not which way to look for help For from whence should he have it At home he has no Friend that dares know him abroad he has no manner of interest For all there depend upon the Pope who is so far from concerning himself for any whom he knows to be no Papists that he does not own them for Catholicks And especially if any such be men of parts whom he hears to be in Prison or the like he only wishes them hanged out of the way that he may have the rest the more intirely at his Devotion Much more might be said on this head but what I have said may suffice And therefore to insist no longer on that Question Whether undistinguishing Severity would be effectual or no I come now to shew that if it should prove effectual yet it would be very far from seeming just or equitable to indifferent men And of this I am strongly assured first by all the judgment I can make of the Intention of our Laws secondly by Arguments from the rule of right Reason and the Ancient Practise of Christianity I begin with the former and observe That although the Severity of our Penal Statutes according to the bare letter of them generally not distinguishing between Papists and Roman Catholicks falls indifferently on both yet by the wording of them in several places and by other Circumstances it appears that they were intended against the Abettors of undue Authority in the Pope and against no other For what appears in the wording of the Statutes I shall instance only two viz. 23 Eliz. and 3 Iacobi Whereof the former namely that of Queen Elizabeth expresses the crime to be punished by the Statute in these terms An intent to withdraw Subjects from their natural Obedience The other namely that of King Iames which was very severe as it ought to be on so great an occasion mentions this as the crime to be punished by it The withdrawing Subjects from their natural Obedience and moving them to promise Obedience to the pretended Authority of the See of ROME That the Sanguinary Laws were intended against Popery in this sense and no other it may further appear by the Account I have given before where I briefly set forth on what occasions they were made and in what manner they were executed It is evident that none ever suffer'd Death as a Papist who could be brought to take the Oath of Supremacy or Allegiance Now it is certain that those Oaths were primarily designed to be a suffient Test to distinguish Papists from others And yet in either of them there is no mention made of any Doctrines but only those which concern Government that is the external Government both of Church and State It is indeed objected by Papists against the Oath of Supremacy and it sticks with some of those Roman Catholicks who are not Papists that by the Oath of Supremacy the King is made a spiritual Head of the Church But he that reads the Oath will find no such thing in it and it is expresly declar'd by the Church of England in her Articles That she ascribes to the King no other Jurisdiction over the Church than what is meerly external even the same that was exercised by the Kings of Iudah and the Christian Emperours over the Church in their Kingdoms and Empires To this I may add the constant Profession and Answer of all Protestant Writers Whensoever any Complaint has been made of the severity used to Roman Catholicks it has been always said that they suffered not for Religion but Treason And this is a very plain and satisfactory Answer while those only suffer who do those things or hold those Tenets which involve Treason in them But if they who do no such thing and who renounce all such Tenets are yet made to suffer in like manner though they suffer for that which the Law declares to be Treason it will bear some dispute whether Law-makers may not miscall things However it shews the general sense of the Church and State of England I mean for what concerns the design or intention of those Penal Laws And here by the way it may be observed how very different our dealing with the Roman-Catholicks is from their dealing with Protestants in Q. Mary's days That then all profest Protestants were handled severely and that many of them were put to death I think none will deny But to avoid the Odium of this some of that Communion in our Age would persuade us that their suffering was not upon the Account of Religion And to colour this Evasion they endeavour to show that Cranmer and two or three more had deserved death for Treason which is more than they are able to prove But admit this were true that these men had deserved it yet they did not suffer death for Treason but Religion as they would have it believed that made them dye For they declared this throughout the whole course of their Criminal Proceedings And it concerned them so to do For otherwise by the Laws then in force they had murthered as many as they burnt there being no Law to Burn men for Treason but for Heresie And so far they were from using any Moderation that they rather extended the Letter of the Law by inflicting it on many poor Creatures who had nothing to provoke any Jealousie against them but enough to move pity if there had been any in their Adversaries It has been the glory of our Church that we have not been like them in this nor can be without altering the Design of them that made all our Laws against Popery The intention of our Laws appearing so manifestly as I conceive against Papists only and not against any other Roman Catholicks it seems not reasonable that any other butPapists should suffer by the Letter of those Laws For it is a Maxim That not the bare Letter of any one or more Clause or Clauses but the Intention of the whole Law is the Life and Soul of it I mean it is that which gives signification to words w ch ought where itis evident to interpret theLaw It is also a Maxim That all Penal Laws should be interpreted favourably and therefore more should not
could remain here but only Hypocrites and Equivocators And their stay would be very uncomfortable if they kept silence but worse if they discovered themselves for then they must expect to suffer the Severity of the Laws They must either hang like bare-fac'd Traytors without any pretence of the Crown of Martyrdom or they must take it for a favour that they may have leave to go after their Fellows And they that are once out of the Kingdom will have no hope to come in again To be sure they shall not if the Priests of their own Church can keep them out or can discover them lurking in it Nor I suppose will any of the Laity be very forward to harbour them We have no reason to think that any man should be so unreasonable to venture neck or purse for the Reception of them for whom his Soul is not concern'd when he might without danger or any apprehension of it enjoy the exercise of his Religion when he might have all the Offices of it performed by other Priests as Canonical in their Mission and as exemplary in their lives men free from exception every way save that they have no tincture of Hildebrand's Doctrine If that be it that makes them so in love with a Jesuite that nothing seems sacred that comes out of any other hand the State has just cause to suspect from whence that niceness proceeds and to treat them as those that hold correspondence with its Enemies Nor can they in this case have any colour to pretend that they suffer for their Religion who might have enjoy'd their Religion without mingling it with that Treason for which they suffer And however the matter may be thought of by Him at Rome whose judgment we ought not to value in this case I believe no Foreign Prince will think this a Persecution of Roman-Catholicks France thought it none when time was to banish the Jesuites Nor Venice to turn out three Orders together which were all that submitted to the Pope's Interdict and Excommunication There is no reason to doubt that any other State of that Communion would have done the like upon as great an occasion So that if any of those States should interpose in favour of those against whom the State of England has so just an exception it might seem as if they did not so much desire to have them taken in here as to rid their own Country of such Vermin as they would not be willing to harbour They have reason to apprehend that those that we send over to them would teach their own people to do like them and put the Authority there to the trouble of doing the same thing that ours have done here and which themselves have been fain to do in former times I say not but any Prince that were in hostility or that thought himself likely ere long to break with England might be ready to receive this sort of men as he would do other Spies and Traytors to their Country There were very great Reason that a Prince in those circumstances should consider these men as being most compleatly qualified for all such purposes And because the Pope is a sure Enemy to all them that are for the suppressing of Popery I doubt not they would find him ready to mingle his quarrels with theirs and his Instruments would work much the better when they received their impulse from his hand But all this would last no longer than until those Princes thought it their best way to be at peace with us And that would soon be if we were at Unity among our selves As we should be if none were suffered to live among us but such as might live in an easie or very tolerable condition Then those Princes would soon ease themselves of the burthen and give the Pope leave to find some other way to keep his Vermin Which after a while he would do with such Italian Frugality that if their Rents were stop'd here in England they would soon look as thin as Fauxes Lanthorn or to describe them to the life they would be like Envy in the Poet. I need not trouble the Reader with minding him That in case of such a Discrimination there could be no danger of the increase either of Priests or Seminaries abroad and as little danger of any Commiseration or Pity at home to hinder it from being effectual It is obvious to every apprehension that the removal of these dangers would be one of the necessary consequences of it For who does not see that if the Roman Catholicks on such terms as I have describ'd might enjoy their Religion and their Estates and their liberty they would not count them their Friends that would perswade them to throw away that enjoyment Doubtless if some few did not know when they were well the generality of them would understand it And both they of their own Church and much more the Protestants would think them not to be pitied that should lose what they had thrown away with their own hands especially when they considered for what end these men did it that it was out of a restless desire to bring a Foreign Tyrannical Yoke upon their Country Therefore since by this and what else has been said on this head we cannot but see That the only immediate causes not only of the Propagation but Preservation of Popery in this Kingdom viz. the great business and boldness of them of the Popish Faction and the great tameness and fearfulness of the other Clergy of that Communion among us would be quite removed by such a Discrimination of Roman Catholicks We cannot but conclude with the same evidence That such a Discrimination would be effectual to suppress Popery in this Kingdom For nothing can be more clear in Natural Reason then that wheresoever the only immediate causes both of the Propagation and Conservation of any thing ceases there that thing it self must cease to be And after all that has been said already we cannot rationally doubt whether by such a Discrimination those only immediate causes of the Preservation and Propagation of Popery would cease to be any longer in England 'T is manifest to every considering man That in case of such a Discriminating Course duly and constantly held the busie Agents for Popery must either give up their Cause or fly their Country And either way will do our business If any of them stay they will do their part toward it by giving security to the State Which cannot be without the renouncing of Popery If they all go it will be a blessed riddance of them and Popery together For the active part or soul of it will depart with the Jesuites And the Body or Scheme of Doctrines will be interr'd by those whom they leave behind them or rather hang'd up for it does not deserve Christian Burial 2. Such a Discrimination would also be just and equitable For it would be according to the intention of the Laws of this Kingdom and most