is so clear that having said If men had not in their Free Will to fly what is filthy and choose what is honest they should be no wise to blame for what ever action he will have it a Demonstration That men have freedom to live virtuously or fall in sin because we see them by experience to pass from one of these contraries to the other His words are ac nisi libero arbitrio ad turpia fugienda ad honesta deligenda facultatem habeat mortalium genus non fuerit in causâ sive culpâ qualiumcunque demum factorum Sed enim libero id delectu tum recte per virtutem vivere cum per peccatum labi ad hunc demonstramus modum hominem eundem ad contraria subinde transire videmus The second is Merit of Works in acknowledging a reward to them his words again are Atque hoc etiamsi paucis persuaferimus maximum tamen inde feremus lucrum nam ut boni agricolae amplam à domino capiemus mercedem The third is the efficacy of Baptism in cleansing us by water from all former sins and making us the children of God Ut ne necessitatis ignorantiae liberi permaneamus sed â—â—â—ectus scientiae filii fiamus ac remissionem ante commissorum peccatorum consequamur in aquâ The fourth the Real Presence saying of the Consecrated Bread and Wine in so express words Not as common Meat and common Drink do we take these things but even as by the Word of God our Saviour JESUS Incarnate had flesh and blood for our Salvation so we are taught that the Eucharist is the flesh and blood of the self same JESUS Incarnate His words are Non enim ut communem panem neque communem potum ista sumimus sed quemadmodum per verbum dei caro factus Jesus Christus Servator noster carnem sanguinem habuit ad eundem modum etiam eam in quâ per preces verbi ejus ab ipso profecti gratiae sunt actae alimoniam incarnati illius Jesu carnem sanguinem esse edocti sumus Nam Apostoli in commentariis à se scriptis quae Evangelia vocantur ita tradiderunt Diverse other things in the same Apology I pass these few things being sufficient to shew M. Menzeis ingenuity and how he with other Hereticks dare cite the Fathers who even most evidently and expresly condemn them But to close this Section which citations have made longer then I intended with one Query I ask M. Menzeis where he shall find so much as in one of the Fathers any point of Doctrine taught by the present Roman Church condemned of Heresie as many Protestant Tenets they hold against us are declared Heretical by so many as by S. Ireneus l. 1. c. 20. to say with Simon Magus that men are not saved by good works by S. Epiphanius haeres 8. to say with Cerinthus That children may be saved without Baptism By the same S. Epiphanius to say with the Pâ—oâ—â—maâ—s That God has commanded some impossible things By S. Augustine l. 20. contr Faust to pull down Altars with the Manichees By the same S. Augustine l. 2. Contra lit Petil. C. 32. and 34. To say with the Donatists That the Baptism of Christ and that of S. John Baptist were all one by S. Epiphanius haeres 75. and S. Augustine haeres 53. To say with the Arians that Fasts of the Church are not to be observed nor Prayers nor Sacrifice to be used for the dead By Sozomenus l. 5. c. 20. and Eusebius l. 7. C. 14. To forbid with Julian the Apostate the use of Images and Sign of the Cross by S. Hierome l. contr Helvidianum To equal marriage with Virginity By the same S. Hierom l. contr Vigilant To say with Vigilantius Saints are not to be Invocated nor their Relicks to be honoured By S. Hierome again l. 3. contr Pelagian To brag as the Pelagians did that they were sure of their Salvation By S. Augustine to say with Jovinian That such as are regenerate by Baptism and once received in Gods grace and favour cannot finally fall away By S. Hierome contr Vigilant To say Churchmen ought to marry By S. Cyril in Epist ad Calo-syrium Episc of Madness as well as Errour To say with some in these dayes Christs body did not remain in the Eucharist if it were kept untill the morrow By S. Augustine l. 6. contra Julian C. 2. 3. and ad Bonifac. C. 2. 4. To say with the Pelagians That the children of the Faithful are born holy and need no Regeneration by Baptism By S. Augustine l. de haeres C. 54. To teach with the Eunomians A man is saved by Faith only By S. Augustine l. 1. C. 2. ult contra Maximin To deny Apostolical Traditions in the Church By S. Cyprian Ep. 55. to say with most Hereticks To Peters Chair and the Principal Church Infidelity or false Doctrine can have access By Irenaeus l. 3. C. 3. to deny all Churches round about ought to resort to the Roman Church by reason of her more powerful Principality By all the Fathers in the Council of Calcedon Act. 16. To deny that all Primacy and chief Honour is to be kept for the Arch-Bishop of Old Rome So that the Protestant Religion is not only void of all Solid Ground either in the Divine Scriptures or Holy Fathers but also in most clear and express words is condemned as Heretical by both It being indeed nothing but a new Heresie patcht up of many old condemned Errours joyned to some fresh Notions and Conceits flowing from the same Spring and Spirit of Pride and Rebellion against all the Antient Fathers and present Pastors of the Church It s frequent changes show it is not from God It s Monstrous Divisions in so many Sects that it has not the Unity of Faith Its inconstancy in Principles Tenets Form of Worship and Government that it is not built upon the Rock and consequently hath no solid Foundation or Ground Conclusion of all that has been said wherein also the true Grounds of the Catholick Religion are set down A Little Error in the beginning turns great in the end sayes the Prince of Philosophers Aristotle in his Physicks which as it is most true in the first Principles of all Natural Sciences so it is in the Grounds of the Christian Faith The innumerable by-wayes of Sectaries their monstrous and manifold Divisions from the true Church amongst themselvs so many Controversies among Christians in our days such wranglings and jars for Religion flow all from one Spring to wit The mistake of true Principles and Grounds And this one Errour in the beginning makes them run themselves in so many and infinite great in the end Pride and Contention the two Pillars of Heresie will let them acknowledge no Authority of Councils or Fathers yield to no evidence of Reason submit to no Judge Whence Controversies are driven to nothing but idle and
endless Contentions and Quarrels Councils are called Conventiles when they sentence or censure them the Church is changed into a Synagogue the Fathers forfeit their credit places and passages from Scripture are applyed or misapplyed as they list Now a jeer now a jest in handsome Language which jovial and jeering humours most look upon are their common Answers to solid Reasons Evidence in Motive of credibility is mocked at Faiths certainty is changed into probability a few Fundamentals comprehending chief Mysteries what or how many they cannot tel are judg'd only necessary to be believed Errors in Integrals as they call them which make the greatest part of Christian Doctrine are taught to be things indifferent to our belief In them even the Apostles were not in allible say Rainolds and Whitaker with some other Protestant Divines In them the whole Church may err says M. Menzeis and upon this as if she had erred come in all Sectaries to reform her she is old and her Spirits exhausted they have the fulness of the Spirit her Eyes by age are dimmed she sees not what is manifest in Scripture they as younger see clear shee is too Superstitious in her Religious Ceremonies they as more familiar with God use none like Prophets Extraordinarily sent by God they preach against Priests and people they set out a New Gospel of their own as if they were Apostles and Evangelists finding no true Scripture before Yea as if they had Christs own power they abandon the Antient Church as the Synagogue and make up a new one changing both the Priesthood and Sacrifice No more pennances and satisfactions of men to Gods Justice for their offences because Christ hath satisfied for all No more fasting except very seldom and that only for temporal ends No good Works are left in our power they are too hard yea impossible seeing even our best actions are sins Faith only justifieth and to believe is an easie task So the strait path is made plain and the narrow way broad to them Whil'st others strive to work their salvation with fear and trembling chastizing their bodies with the Apostle S. Paul least they become reprobates They live secure that each of them is one of the Elect making even this an Article of his Faith And this they perswade to simple ones with some refined words uttered in the tune of the Sybilles giving responees from the belly so far they are fetched with a deep sigh as if they breathed nothing but zeal some more Learned relying on the acuteness of their wits go willingly along with them not to captivate their understandings or submit to any Visible Judg 〈◊〉 men of interest comply outwardly with the prevailing party keeping their own retentions of mind and this it is which their Preachers for the most part desire of us that we would but comply in hearing that is believe one thing and force our Consciences to profess another Come hear us say they and you shall not be troubled we seek no more and of their most understanding hearers they get no more as I have often heard from themselves We are not say they so Proud and Arrogant as Papists to call our Church and her Doctrine Infallible the Scripture is only so By it judg of us and what we teach as you your selves read and understand This is the liberty of the children of God to be tyed to no Churches Faith to no Councels Decrees to no Fathers Doctrine The Word as clear in it self or explained by it self the Spirit speaking inwardly in our hearts and every mans Natural Reason directed by certain Rules for the right understanding of both is the only means God hath left for the conversion of Infidels conviction of Hereticks and setling of every good Christian in his belief O Liberty Liberty and Freedom of the children of God from the Popes Supremacy Councels Infallible Authority the Churches Jurisdiction in matters of Faith and Religion and generally the usurped power of any Visible Judg. This is M. Menzeis and Protestants great Principle which as I have demonstratively I hope above proved makes all our Debates in Religion and takes away all cerrainty in Faith But because to ruine Protestant Grounds and give no better in their place were rather to destroy then edifie to throw down then to build and in a Controversie of Religion rather to set up Atheism then root out Heresie as M. Menzeis continually cavilling at our Tenets but never once settling his own with so much labor hath done I therefore do here for a Conclusion briefly here set down and clearly prove solid the Grounds of the Catholick Faith The Ground then of true Faith and Religion Established by Christ and his Apostles not only solid and infallible in it self but also clear and perspicuous to all yet special and particular to us in Communion with the Sea of Rome to which no Sectaâ—y Schismatick or Heretick doth or can pretend removing all Doubts deciding all Controversies silencing all sowers of false Doctrine and Errours keepâ—ng Unity stopping Divisions quieting mens Consciences instructing the Ignorant setling the Unstable captivating the understanding of the most Learned to the obedience of Faith and which the greatest and quickest wits of the Christian World that is all the holy Fathers have ever built their faith upon Is Scripture and Apostolical Tradition conserved in the Church as delivered expounded by her both as an infallible Propounder and Judge Whence if any man here ask the Analysie and resolution of our Faith I answer him in a very few words We believe such things as are from Scripture and Apostolical Tradition taught in the Church to be true because God hath revealed them The reason again why we believe God did reveal such things is for that we see evident Motives of credibility in this Church and none else wherein God shows himself Author of her Doctrine confirming it with diverse infallible Marks and chiefly Miracles 〈◊〉 which manifestly appear both his Subscription and Seal Digitus Dei hîc est Pharaoh's Magicians could not but acknowledge this Exod. the 8. V. 19. Seeing only the Dust of the Earth suddenly by Aaron changed into Vermin they cryed out The hand of God is here So that there be two things to be remarked in the Resolution of Divine Faith The first is God revealing Deus revelans And the second is God showing himself Authour of such a Revelation Deus proponens se authorem revelationis say the Divines What God hath revealed is taught us by his Church as an infallible Propounder that he is Author of the Revelations made to her he attests in the Motives of credibility as infallible marks that it is he who speaks So all in our Faith is infallibly from God and all infallibly propounded to us The things revealed by the true and infallible Church and the Revelation by infallible Motives which being clear to all who have Eyes Ears and Understanding make evidently credible and infallibly certain all and
Countreys what truth can there be in Humane Affairs if no credit be given to these things In Poland that most notorious Miracle of a man raised to life after he had been seven years dead and brought before the King sitting in Justice to witness he had sold such a piece of Land to the Church In England we have from their best Authors how in a publick Assembly the opposers of a single life in Priests are all smothered under the ruines of the room only S. Dunstan and those who with him defended it being miraculously preserved where also the many Miracles of S. Winefride Virgin to the great good and constant cure of the multitude having recourse to her Chppel and Fountain continue even in our days In Scotland a Miracle makes the armes of one of our chief Cities others of S. Mungo S. Fiaker S. Margaret c. are famous in our Chronicles yea the ever continued Miracles in many places consecrated in old time to God and his Saints make the people as yet to frequent the very rubbish and ruines of our Chappels Now to reflect a little upon what I have said 1. The Miracles I here speak of are for the most part the same or like to those which Christ and his Apostles did 〈◊〉 as the suddain cure of naturally incurable Diseases the raising of the Dead the casting out of Devils c. 2. They have been done in all Ages in the Catholick Roman Church and in no other 3. The Workers of them are Popes Bishops Priests Eremits Monks Fryars Jesuits and others all knowingly opposers of Protestancy all living in Communion with the Sea of Rome 4. They are witnessed by the most Learned Judicious and Vertuous Witnesses of the Christian World yea are so notoriously Evident that Hereticks cannot but avouch them with the Centurists of Magdeburg and others 5. Many of them are not only Personal Miracles Witnessing the holiness of the Person that Worketh them as these which serve for the Cononization of our Saints but also Dogmatical confirming our Doctrine against Protestants as being wrought by Reliques and Invocation of Saints the Sign of the holy Cross holy Water saying of Mass Exorcisms Pilgrimages to holy Chappels of our blessed Lady and other Saints by real Apparitions of our Saviour Christ in form of a Man in the Consecrate Host c. What then can Protestants Answer with any show of Probability to this first Mark of the Catholick Roman Church Shall they grant a false Religion to have so many Miracles and theirs which is the true to have none or shall Christs promise in S. John Ch. 14. made to faithfull Believers prove false that Protestancy may at least seem to be true They will rather deny these Miracles which I have brought and all others since the Apostles for their Negative Faith Engageth them ever to a strong Denial as all their New Religion is but a denying of most Antient and known Christian Truths Yet shall any man upon their bold denyal distrust such a croud of so Famous Witnesses and Writers Shall they say many Miracles have been fained so some Gospels but what maketh that more against these of the Catholick Roman Church then those of Christ and his Apostles What has not been counterfeited Gold Silver Jewels Wines doth it follow there be none true or that no man can distinguish things Sophisticated from pure and real Could not S. Justin S. Irenaeus S. Chrysostome S. Basile and S. Augustine relating so many done by Reliques and Invocation of Saints judge of true ones Or were S. Athanasius and S. Hierom relating the Miracles of S. Anthonie S. Gregory of Nisse and S. Basile those of S. Gregory Thaumaturgus Severus Sulpitius and S. Gregory of Tours those of S. Martin Theodoret those of S. Nicolas S. Gregory the great those of S. Bennet S. Bonaventure those of S. Francis so easily deceived shall they deny the Workers of such Miracles to have been Members of the Roman Church or them to have been wrought in Confirmation of the present Romish Faith But it is by saying of Mass making the sign of the Cross Invocating of Saints honouring of Reliques they have been done Shall they have recourse in fine to the false Miracles of Infidels Hereticks Magicians the Antichrist or Devil So did the Arians Eunomians and other Hereticks as reports S. Ambrose in his Sermon of S. Gervase and Protase S. Hierome against Vigilantius and Victor Uticensis in his second Book of the persecution of the Wandales and is the same the Jews did say to Christ but more then either Men or Devils can do All those things which Hereticks or Infidels have done or that Antichrist shall do being but like these of Pharaoh's Magicians little curious Trifles of a short lasting and that may proceed from Natural Causes But so are not the Miracles I speak of for they are the very same with those of Christ and his Apostles they are attested by the holy Fathers and Doctors of the Church who could best judge of true and real ones and as they have been wrought in the Catholick Roman Church and in her only in all Ages so in every Age have they brought in some Nation of Infidels to the bosome of the same Church This is the second thing remarkable in the Apostles and no less Conspicuous in the Catholick Roman Church Whosoever then desires to see this second Mark of the true Church verified in the Roman Church Let him but cast an Eye over all the Nations which were ever converted from Infidelity to Christianity since the Apostles and then but take a view in their respective Histories and Records who were their Apostles out of which Church they were sent and to which Church they did at first bring in their Proselytes and Converts And he shall find all this great Work to have been done by no other then Popes Bishops Priests and Religious men all living in Communion with the Roman Church all acknowledging her Headship over other Churches all teaching her Doctrine all submitting to her Authority and all propagating her Faith See for this in general the Theater of the Conversion of all Nations Written by Mermannius and the History of the Church by Baronius and Spondanus â—ll in particular the Records of each Nation yea and the Magdeburgian Centurists though Protestants It being so notoriously evident that even our adversaries cannot deny it and if they should the very Walls of Churches Chappels Monasteries adorned with Crosses Statues Images and other marks of the present Roman Religion might sufficiently prove it against them Pope Alexander the 1. is glorious for the conversion of so many of the Roman Senators and Nobles Pope Sylvester for that of the first Christian Emperour Constantine the great the Bulgarians are converted by Pope Nicolas the 1. the Bohemians by Stephen the 7. Norway by Adrian the 4. the Pomeranians by Nicolas the 3. all Popes S. Elutherius Pope sends to this our Island two of his Clergy
a tautologizing and vain repetition And in this sense I grant Mr. Dempster tautologizes and in no other But are not rather Mr. Menzies many Instances in this his Epistle against the Catholick Faith and so many times repeated in his Book both tautologies and anomalous motions as altogether false frivolous idle and impertinent to the present Question concerning the Grounds of the protestant Religion wherefore I reflect only on the last viz. That Popish Principles as improven by the Jesuited party are highly injurious to Princes Ergo The Protestant Religion hath solid grounds for this should be his Inference in all he sayes And this an arch Covenanter is not ashamed to write who so treasonably and publickly did preach against his lawful Soveraign but the love and esteem so many of the Greatest and Wisest Monarches in the Christian World have for Jesuits sufficiently vindicate them from all the Calumnies of such a disloyal person After this he sayes If he know his own genius well he takes no pleasure in altercations Answer He is then of a most austere Nature who so shuns all pleasure for it seems Mr. Menzeis lives in altercations as the Salamander in the fire all his Preachings and Writings being full of them He delights so to cavil that he lets not pass Mr. Dempsters Orthographick trespasses which should have been at most imputed to his Amanuensis or Scriviner But if Mr. Menzeis were as Orthodox as Orthographick all were well In his voyage to London to complement the Usurper he made himself Orthographick in the English Tongue but coming down an Independent he was far from an Orthodox mind yet thinks to keep up some reputation amongst Protestants by his Imputations on Jesuits No hope sayes he of prevailing with the Jesuited Faction whose Design as appears is to keep up a stated Schism in Christendom they hinder the conversion of Jews and Infidels Answer No Sir it is only the Hidra of Heresy and chiefly yours divided in so many heads keeps up Schism and Division from the Church and amongst themselves which Monster Jesuits strive to suppress they yea one of them called Saint Francis Xavier hath converted more Infidels to the Christian and Catholick Religion in ten years time then all the Protestants in the World for a hundred and fifty if all Records of History be more worthy of credit then you The conversion of Jews Infidels Hereticks as ever in old times so constantly now is a mark of the true Church to which Hereticks can no wise pretend whose business is to pervert Catholicks rather then to convert Infidels as Saint Hierome well remarks so that in all prudence this he should not have mentioned his younger brethren the Jansenists of whom he borrows most of his Objections against Jesuits speak not of this being no little ashamed when yearly the notable conversions of so many thousand Infidels only by Jesuits and other Priests in Communion with the Sea of Rome come out wherein neither they nor he have any hand Next amongst many controverted points obstructive to the peace and unity of the Catholick Church he sets down first the Churches Infallibility as if the true Church were not infallible both according to the Scripture and Fathers as I shall God willing hereafter prove at length or as if the Church being infallible peace and unity could not be had Secondly the Popes Universal Supremacy as obstructing Unity forgetting what St. Hierome sayes l. 1. in Jovin That even amongst the Apostels themselves one was made head that the occasion of Schism and Division might be taken away Ut capite constituto Schismatis tolleretur occasio Doth the Popes Supremacy in the whole Church hinder peace and unity more then my Lord Archbishops Primacy in the Kingdom Is not this a fling at Bishops in their Diocesses and the Primate in each Nation to say their Supremacy over inferiour Pastors is a let and stop to Peace and Unity in the Church So all Covenanting Ministers speak with him the Unity they aim at being nothing but a Monopoly to set themselves above Pope and Primate upon the ruines of both Church and State Are not these strong and witty Objections put in the Frontispiece of his Book as in the Van The rest I prosecute not they being the ordinary controverted Tenets betwixt Protestants and us answered in every Pamplet of Controversie but the last is too remarkable to let it pass Nay says he Is it not one of the first Queries wherewith Jesuites do assault our people how do you know Scripture to be the word of God As if they would have people rather turn Atheists then remain Protestants A very pretty Reply shews not this his Answer Jesuits and others have great reason to move the Question to which so great a Divine can not better reply Protestants call Scripture their ground of Faith but can evidence by no sufficient Motive of Credibility standing to their principles this Book they call Scripture is the true and Authentick Word of God should not Mr. Menzeis then have setled cleared and vindicated from all Objections and Cavils this his ground but that could have diverted him from Impugning the Romish Faith no it would have done more against it then all his Calumnies of Idolatry being more to the purpose yea ended to the Protestants great advantage all the present debate but all Mr. Menzeis can answer is to call the question Atheistical and a demand proper to Infidels as if good Christians might not ask for Instruction how they may prudently believe and firmly adhere to the grounds of their Religion and Faith In fine he says Many Romanists have called for Reformation Answer true and do as yet daily call for Reformation in Life and Manners but not in matters of belief none of them with Protestants presuming to correct Gods Word and reform the Doctrine of his Church or to censure their Pastors and all the Ancient Fathers with Pharisaical and Puritanical pride This way of calling for Reformation was proper to protestants at their first rise for reforming the Catholick Roman Church and again in the Covenant for the reforming their own They like Foxes indeed to use Mr. Menzeis comparison did raise such dust not to say worse with their tails and heads both that ever since the very air they breath is infected and their eyes so blinded that they cannot open them to see the manifest truth After all this fearing his Book may have a reply he desires all things then be noticed he hath said Answer No this his demand is most unreasonable that at the time one only question is in debate and that a main one concerning the Grounds of the Protestant Religion any thing else should be taken notice of till this be put to a closure On this all the Protestant Religion depends let their grounds be proved solid and we have done for by that we look not on his Digressions as Golden Apples to make us run out of our way in
the least they being scarce like to the Apples of Sodom in his confused Rapsody that is pleasant to the eye though no less rotten in the heart as who has best right to the Root and Tree may justly claim the Branches and Fruit so whoever proves he hath the true Grounds of Religion may easily prove all Superstructures on this ground to be true the accessary followeth the principal and this is the chief and principal question amongst us let this be once decided in their favour and we have no more process with them Secondly he desires nothing be brought has been answered by Protestants Answer if he had given example in this he had never written a line However if any thing has been solidly answered to what I bring against his great principle of no Infallible visible Judge of Controversie or both his grounds as I most sincerely protest it never did come to my hands so let Mr. Menzeis send it me and here an end Thirdly That personal Criminations be laid aside Answer then these personal Criminations when he calls Mr. Dempster a dull and Lethargy-head a Neat-herd a man of a Prostitute reputation a Knave a Sycophant a Devil should have been blotted out of his Book As Infamous persons are not received for witnesses so Calumnies can be no wise sooner refuted then by shewing that he who calumniates has lost all reputation and credit If it were not softly insinuated what a quick wit Mr. Menzeis is who names Mr. Dempster a dull and Lethargy-head How learned a Pastor who calls him a Neat-herd how famous who challenges him to be of a prostitute reputation how honest who calls him a Rogue and a Knave how sincere and ingenuous who terms him a Sycophant and how great a Saint who compares him to a Devil his sole authority in Print might perhaps endanger Mr. Dempsters good name wherefore he must not take ill a little hath been said of this not for Criminations but as Answers to Calumnies and notorious falshoods especially his Apology being the greatest of his wrongs as if Mr. Dempster had extorted them he was forced to it because for sooth he can suffer no man to withstand him or not to be satisfied with what he brings This is all the Injury we read in Mr. Dempsters papers which can be no excuse certainly to him who easily foreseeing what might be replyed dare glory with Job he takes injuries for a Crown citing as a Heroick word in Luther Indies magis mihi placeo superbus fio quod video nomen pessimum mihi crescere I please my self more and more daily yea I become proud to see that I have got a very ill name and that it grows upon me which if true his pleasure may be great and his pride too for few of his coat after Luther have got a worse name for changes in Religion Jars and contentions with his brethren disobedience to his Bishop and disloyalty to his Prince Here presently to set up his good name a little he playes the Prophet striving to pry into Mr. Dempsters Intentions and thoughts why he slighted all the points stated by him and Instances only that he should prove there be two Sacraments and no more but here the Spirit fails him in all his Divinations the only reason of this being for that all other controverted Tenets with Protestants are borrowed from divers old condemned Heresies and this only proper to them However Mr. Dempster should have proved seven Sacraments Answer No not this or any thing else in the present dispute as not to the purpose save only that Protestants for their Religion could shew no solid ground this he sticks to this he insists upon and this only whilest Mr. Menzeis like a Bird ever upon wing flies from branch to branch a mark of no great Constancy and Solidity either in Wit or Learning But he will needs bring in the Romish Religion by the head and shoulders upon the Stage and have Mr. Dempster to decline it be tryed by Scripture and the Doctrine of the Church in the first three ages Answer The Romish Religion has no part in the present Scene neither is Master Dempster acting any thing directly in defence of it but Impugning the Protestant grounds and this Mr. Menzeis in his first answer clearly grants his words are The Thesis then which we defend and you impugne is this The Protestant Religion is the true Religion No mention here of the Catholick Roman Faith and yet Mr. Menzeis in all his papers and Books speaks very little for the Protestant Religion but always against the Popish laying aside the Thesis which he sets down himself as his Text so often in the Pulpit to rail at random against us And this with a like Sincerity and Candor as when he says Quakerism is but Popery under a disguise Answer then most men mistake it thinking it so far from Popery under what ever disguise that it is nothing but Puritanism in puris naturalibus and undisguised Is the private Spirit our Ground and Guide Do we allow Laicks and Women to preach or private persons whatsoever upon pretence of New Gospel Light to reform the Church This Presbyterians and Puritans in the beginning of the Reformation and again in the Covenant did with them Yea on the same very ground of adhering to the pure Word and to the Spirit and Light within them against all Authority in Church and State Is not this the Quakers chief Argument against Protestants when they ask their Power and Call We are come to Reform you say they and all your Hirelings even as you the Papists and Priests We ground our selves on the pure and naked Word the Spirit speaketh within us we regard not men Church Councels Fathers have erred Which Answer Mr. Menzeis if constant to his own principles with all his Needle-headed Nicities as he speaks will hardly refute In fine he sayes Romanists boast his Papers shall have an Answer these six Moneths might have done it Our Reply will discover we apprehend some danger c. Answer Few Romanists do think his papers deserve a Reply yea nor their pains to read them as saying little to the purpose much less do they esteem the enterprise to answer them so high as it should be called a boast He who rather contends with us in solidity of reason then celerity of dispatch will neverthleess have this expected answer six Moneths before his Book did appear at which time he makes the Magistrates command the Stationer under the highest pains that he should Print no Reply Yet after his Book has been a twelve moneth under the Press at home we may have a Book Printed at a start abroad neither is there such hast in replying for any danger we apprehend his railings never having wronged Catholicks in the least but much Protesiants many whereof have turned Quakers to hear Tub-preachers professing greater Modesty Sincerity yea and Solidity in belief then he who by his frequent changes in
Protestant Writers spoken of who have done this but nothing as either borrowed from them or as laid out by himself is brought in Many passages of the Fathers are misapplyed Many Cavils Criminations and Calumnies are objected Many strong words as Logomachies Vertigo's and Needle-headed Nicities with Prophecies from Poets are used a great part of Erasmus Chilias spent in Proverbs Much paper blotted but what concluded I shall not here interpose my judgment as Mr. Menzeis publishes his victory as Trumpet in the Triumph himself leaving to each one to read and judge of the papers adding only of him what was said of a Prolix and tedious Orator who on little matter spent much time in many flourishes of words and frequent Digressions Nullum vidi qui magis operosè nihil diceret Multa sed non multum Magni passus sed extra viam Seneca That is I have seen none take greater pains to say nothing he sayes many things but not much he walks at a great pace but out of the way For me as I mind not here actum agere so neither do I presume to add any thing to what Mr. Dempster has said in his way of Disputing which I acknowledge both the shortest and best to make Mr. Menzeis prove his Grounds but he ever declining this and urging we should shew in them any weakness or defect this I here undertake for Mr. Menzeis further conviction and happily some Protestants conversion by the goodness and mercy of God My design being to prove positively the falshood and nullity as well of his great Principle of no Infallible visible Judg as of both his Grounds and that very succinctly in a few Sections without Digressing in the least or medling with what hath been said SECT III. Wherein Mr. Menzeis great Principle That there is no Infallible visible Judge of Controversie in the true Church is Positively refuted as the main Ground of all Divisions Schisms and Heresies and contrary to the Scriptures Fathers and Reason AS all Rebellion in Kingdoms and Common-wealths has its rise from contempt of the lawful Authority of Princes and Magistrates upon the specious pretence of abuse of Power against the Laws of the Kingdom and Liberties of the Subjects So all Heresies in the Church begin with appeals from the Pastors of the Church the only Judges establisht by Christ to his Written Word which is to all Christians as their Law Book LEX REX cry out Rebels with their Calipha Buchanan LEX JUDEX or nolo verba quae non sunt scripta Answers the Heretick with an Arian in the Councel of Nice They will believe what they read and not what they hear though the Apostle teach us that Faith comes of hearing and the reason is because with Mr. Menzeis they acknowledge none speaking in matters of Faith and Religion Infallible No Infallible Visible Judge This is indeed that great Principle Protestants did broach to themselves in the beginning of Reformation and at their very first leaping out from the Church they would admit of no Infallible visible Judge stand to no Sentence or Decree of Church Councils Fathers Now this Principle being supposed by them to be solid and an unquestionable truth nothing can follow thereon but what is true Ex vero nil nisi verum and consequently any private Protestant reading Scripture with a sincere intention may yea ought to adhere to what he thinks to be in Scripture should all the Protestant Church with all her Assemblies Synods Preachers be of a contrary mind Upon this Luther and Calvin leave the Catholick Roman Church and all visible Congregations in the Christian World at that time because sayes Chamiers Ep. 49. though Mr. Menzeis deny it was so Then Apostacy averted the whole body from Christ. They made all the Kings and people drunk from the first to the last says Calvin Inst l. 4. c. 18. and Whitaker Cont. 4. q. 5. c. 3. No Religion but the Papistical had place in the Church Duditius apud Bezam Ep. 1. sayes more if that be true which the Fathers have professed with mutual consent it is altogether on the Papists side Upon this same Principle innumerable other Sects and Sectaries have left again Protestants and the Protestant Church upon this and this only Principle every particular man reading Scripture and taking it as he thinks both words and sense clear is made his own Judge and so as many heads almost as many sentences and diverse Opinions in Religion some thinking Scripture clear for this some for that Sect some admitting or rejecting whole Books of Scripture at their pleasure Yea some and that too too many seeing most clear Scripture tossed and wrested by contrary Sects suspend their Judgment renounce their Faith and quit all Religion not knowing with what party to side Others in fine who think themselves deeper wits as they are more speculative and searching brains having run through all can be said to ascertain any point of Faith save only the Divine Oracle in the Church have turned Scepticks in Religion grounding themselves on meer probability Which Seed of Infidelity sayes the Author of a Treatise Intituled Faith vindicated from possibility of Falshood Sowen when the Infallible Authority of the Church as the rule of Faith was renounced dared first appear publickly above ground in the Writings of Mr. Chillingworth and the L. Falkland dressed up in a plausible Rhetorick and set out under a yet more pleasant Title to Protestants as being against Popery was most graciously received by many Yea when it appeared in Mr. Tilletson his Eloquent and Famous Sermon did begin to get credit as an Evangelical truth and all this upon the foresaid great principle Upon it the holy work of Reformation by private men opposing the Law and Gospel to the judicial Sentence and Decrees of the whole Catholick Church Upon it the glorious work of the Covenant by some factious Zelots against Prince and Pastors in the Protestant Church Upon it Preachers and Pulpits clash at randome Sects and Sectaries multiply the Christian world is put in confusion with endless Jars and Debates in Religion And all this because there is no Infallible Judge of Controversie to give Sentence in favour of any one party silencing all others In a word for that according to Protestants God hath given us a Law without a Judg however inconsistent this may seem with Order Providence and wisdom This one Principle I say once more with the great St. Augustine Serm. 14. de verbis Ap. Ruines the very Grounds of Religion In aliis quaestionibus non diligenter digestis non plenâ Ecclesiae Authoritate firmatis ferendus est disputator errans ibi ferendus error non tamen progredi debet ut fundamentum ipsum Ecclesiae quatere moliatur According to the same St. Augustine ib. whosoever run their heads were they never so great with Mr. Menzeis against this Inexpugnable wall of the Church Authority are crusht Hoc habet Authoritas matris Eccelsiae
hoc fundatus veritatis obtinet canon contra hoc robur contra hunc Inexpugnabilem murum quisquis arietat ipse confringitur Is it not on the Church her Infallible Authority St. Augustine admits the Scriptures contr Ep. fund c. 5. Ego vero Evangelio non crederem nisi me Ecclesiae commoveret Authoritas Doth he not stick so close to the same Authority of the Church that he sayes Ep. fund c. 4. If any clear testimony were brought out of Scripture against it he would neither believe Scripture nor Church for that on the Church her Authority he believed the Scripture Quod si forâ—e in Evangelio aliquid apertissimum de Manichaei apostolatu invenire potueris infirmabis mihi Catholicorum Authoritatem qui jubent ut tibi non credam quâ infirmatâ jam nec Evangelio credere potero quia per eos illi credideram Was not the Church Judge in Religion for the first two thousand years before any Scriptures were written Was not again the Church of the Jews the same Judge after the Law was given till Christ his time and this by the express Order of God in Scripture Deut. 17. v. 8. would God there direct them unto a Judge and punish them with death for not obeying in matters of the Law and Religion an Authority which might any wise deceive them Or in the Law of Grace it self has Christ in St. Matth. 18. v. 17. commanded us to hear a Church not Infallible or subject to errour Is not the Church of God built on a Rock so that the gates of Hell shall not prevail against her S. Matth. 16.19 Has not the Church this promise from Christ S. Matth. 28.20 And loe I am with you even to the end of the world Is not the Church called by the Apostle S. Paul 1 Tim. 3.13 The Ground and Pillar of Truth However Mr. Menzeis will have this ground sole Scripture In fine if these and such like Texts we should hear the Church receive her Decisions obey her commands be not clear what is clear in all the Scripture or if they be subject to diverse Interpretations who can better judge of their true sense then the same Church Will you say Natural Reason with the Socinians or the private spirit with Anabaptists and Quakers or conferring of places and passages with Protestants Is there any one more rational then the whole Church of God any spirit to be trusted rather then the Spirit of Truth promised to her or any one better versed in all the places of Scripture then all the Bishops and Pastors of the Church composing her Supreme Judicatory in a general Council Let us hear I pray you the Fathers upon this I mean the Authority both of Church and Councils as an Infallible Visible Judge the better to silence Mr. Menzeis vain glorious bragging S. Irenaeus l. 1. c. 49. We must believe those Priests that are in the Church those that have a succession from the Apostles who together with Episcopal Power have according to the good pleasure of the Father received the certain gift of truth And again the same S. Irenaeus c. 62. the Church shall be under no mans judgment he excepts not Mr. Menzeis yea nor Luther nor Calvin to reform her for to the Church all things are known in which is perfect Faith of the Father and of the dispensation of Christ and firm knowledge of the Holy Ghost who teacheth all truth Origen praef in lib. periarch That only is to be believed for truth which in nothing disagrees from the Tradition of the Church and in understanding Scripture we must not believe otherwise then as the Church of God hath by succession delivered to us S. Cyprian de unit eccl That the Church cannot be adulterated with Heresy S. Chrysostom in c. 2. is That all the Hereticks in the World cannot pervert her Doctrine S Cyril of Jerusalem Catech. Myst 18. That what she once hath received from Christ she ever holds S. Cyril of Alexandria l. 5. in Is c. 54. That she is founded by Christ in truth for 〈◊〉 S. Ambrose l. 4. Hexam c. 2. That she cannot fail Eusebius Caesariensis de praeparat Evang. l. 1. c. 3. That her Faith is invincible to the very Powers of Hell S. Augustine l. 4. de bapt c. 4. I know by Divine Revelations that the Spirit of Truth teacheth the Church all truth S. Augustine again l. de Utilit cred c. 16. Fear not to run to the bosom of the Church which by succession of Bishops descending from the Apostolical Sea manifestly even to the acknowledgment of all mankind hath obtained the height of Authority Hereticks who on every side barked against her being partly by the consent of Nations partly by the Authority of Councils partly by the Majesty of Miracles condemned to which Church not to yield primacy is a point either of highest Impiety or headlong Arrogancy In fine the same S. Augustine Ep. 118. To think not right what the Catholick Church practises is most insolent madness I leave to the Physicians judgment what foot of this Distemper and Madness had the first Reformers of the Church not only thinking and calling what she practised Idolatry and Superstition but even judging and condemning her of Apostacy Schism and Heresy as Mr. Menzeis here of Arrogancy and Pride Odi Ecclesiae illius fastum I hate says he that Churches Pride speaking of the Catholick Roman Church for calling her self Infallible but let me answer him as Plato Diogen Calcas Ecclesiae fastum majore fastu he most persumptuously accuses her of Pride no lawful establisht Judicatory being proud in censuring private Delinquents as they deserve but Rebels to their lawful Judges in censuring them both Presumptuous and Proud with him But least any with Mr. Menzeis should apply all these Testimonies of the Fathers to the diffusive body of the Church and not to the Representative in a general Council as if the one were Infallible in Believing and not the other in Teaching according to that promise of Christ in S. Matth. 28.20 Go teach all Nations and lo I am with you all days to the end of the world We must remark that when the necessary good and preservation of the Church requires the performance of Christs words and promises in future ages no less then in the Apostles time then we are to take them for all ages except there be some express limitation made as to Preach Baptise remit Sins feed his Flock lead men in all Truth c. Yet because each Apostle had a power over all the Church this is said to every one of them but to their Successors who have not each one this power together in a Council which for this all the Fathers in all ages have acknowledged as a Soveraign and Infallible Judicatory what ever Mr. Menzeis standing to his Great Principle say to the contrary Thus S. Cyril l. 10. de trin averres Decrees of General Councils to be most Holy and Divine Oracles S. Leo
Ep. 37.64 A Sentence inspired by the Holy Ghost S. Epiphanius haeres 77. A Decision not to be questioned S. Athanasius Ep. ad Episc Afric The Word of God which endureth for ever S. Basil Ep. 10. The Touch-stone to discern Hereticks Vincensius Lyrinensis in his Book against Heresies c. 4. says all who will not be accounted Hereticks must conform themselves to the Decrees of Oecumenical or General Councils S. Augustine Ep. 162. Calls them the last Sentence can be expected in matters of Faith S. Gregory the great l. 1. Ep. 24. Reverences the first four General Councils as the four Evangills And Constantine the great the first Christian Emperour Ep. ad eccle Alex. as witness Sozomenus l. 1. c. 24. and Socrates l. 1. c. 6. holds the Decrees of the Council of Nice against Arius a Divine Sentence flowing from the mouths of so many and great Bishops inspired by the Holy Ghost Wherefore S. Augustine de bapt contra donat l. 1. c. 7. concludes That no doubt ought to be made of what is by full Decree establisht in a Council Neither is Mr. Menzeis Objection from him of any force for when he speaks l. 2. de bapt c. 3. of mending Councils by Councils upon further experience his words are Cum aliquo rerum experimento aperitur quod clausum est cognoscitur quod latebat clearly shewing he means not any Decision of Faith can be mended which no experience can learn us but Divine Revelation alone can teach Thus to shun prolixity in Citations do not all the Fathers who were ever present at Councils Subscribe their Canons and Decrees annexing Anathemas and Excommunications against all who oppose them in the least I hear Mr. Menzeis Reply to all this first but where is that Infallible Church the Scriptures and Fathers speak of Answer That is not here the question but that there is one which is contradictory to his great Principle That there is no Infallible visible Judge Only I add the Protestant Church cannot be this they speak of she not being Infallible as themselves confess and consequently cannot be the Church and House of God which the Apostle calls the Ground and Pillar of Truth Secondly How many Questions may be moved touching the lawfulness of Councils now the Fathers speak not of the Council of Trent but only of lawful ones Answer a contentious spirit will question any thing but St. Augustine above cited tells you of what is by full Decree establisht in a Council no doubt or question ought to be made Whatever Protestants object against the Council of Trent did not the Arians against the Nicene Council Nolo verba quae non sunt Scripta that is I will believe nothing but the written Word which is but the eccho repeating now what was at first cryed out then Thirdly God has obliged no man to hear Church or Council against his express and clear Word Answer This is true but is not the Church the most faithful Depositary of Gods Word best Judge of what is clear and best Interpreter of what is Obscure For no Scripture says St. Peter Is of private Interpretation and doth not Christ in his written Word most clearly and expresly command us to hear his Church if we will not be holden as Publicans and Heathens Fourthly No Council can be general where all are not called and sit with a decisive voice Answer Should even Hereticks be called to and have in Councils their decisive voices What agreement could this make in Points controverted why not Socinians Anabaptists Quakers as well as Protestants should Presbyterians sit with Bishops Prelaticks in Protestant Assemblies what a pitiful shift is this If so let the Covenant be renewed Bishops again thrust out and Mr. Menzeis set high for yielding obedience to them only through compulsion and fear of loosing his place Fifthly The Church her self when fallen in errour cannot be Judge being Criminal and Impeached of most hainous crimes she cannot be both Party and Judge Answer This Objection is all Utopian and Chymerical if we hear the Scripture and Fathers assuring us she cannot err But giving and not granting she did who then her Judge When Subjects rise against their Soveraign Citizens against their Magistrates Children against their Parents leave they to be their Judges because arraigned by them Even Hereticks must submit to the Sentence and Censures of the Church when they fall at variance with her though they turn Unnatural she cannot become a Stepmother to them Sixthly Infallibility in judging is proper to God Answer yes none but God has it Essentially and by Nature but none I hope will deny he may make the Pastors of his Church as well Infallible in teaching points of Faith as his Prophets and Evangelists in penning the Scripture Books or at least as any Protestant in reading and understanding them Seventhly The Church of Rome is but a particular Church Answer we take it not so when we say the Catholick Roman Church but for all Churches in Communion with the Roman as all Countries under the Roman Emperour are called the Roman Empire and all people under the Law of Moses the Jewish Church though that name taken strictly belonged to the Tribe of Juda because the chief City appertained to that Tribe where the High Bishop resided So the Universal Church is called the Roman Catholick Church by reason of St. Peter and his Successors her high Bishops residing there whence Rome is the Centre of Ecclesiastical Communion infusing unity in the whole dispersed body as the Form of Universality or Catholickship Wherefore St. Cyprian Ep. ad Cornel. Calls her Ecclesiam principalem unde unitas Sacerdotalis exorta est That is the Principal and chief Church the Source and Centre of Unity amongst the Priests of all other Churches and consequently the people Eighthly But whereon Grounded this Infallible Authority of the Church Answer On the clear places of Scripture and Fathers above cited It is the Ground and Pillar of truth therefore cannot err It hath the promise of Gods Spirit to lead it into all truth therefore cannot err It is said to be built on the Rock against which the gates of Hell shall not prevail therefore cannot err Christ hath placed in it Apostles Doctors Pastors and Bishops to the consummation and perfection of the whole body that we be not carried away with every blast of new Doctrines therefore it cannot err It is the House the Spouse the Mystick body of Christ his Lot Kingdom and Inheritance in this world therefore cannot err On the Authority of the Church the Fathers have received the Originals Translations and Sense of Scripture Books yea some chief Points of Faith not mentioned in Scripture as persons in the Trinity Sacraments in the Church keeping holy the Sunday c. therefore cannot err Christ has commanded and that under pain of Damnation to hear the Church in matters of Faith and Religion therefore it cannot err All are obliged to live in
Communion with the Church therefore cannot erre The Church hath from Christ and ever has exercised a Judicatory Power in all belonging to Faith and Worship therefore cannot err Christ hath sealed constantly in all Ages her Doctrine with Wonders and Miracles therefore it cannot err To conclude if the Church and her Pastors assembled in Councils mistake clear Scripture misapply Scriptures deceive or be deceived what particular man can either justly censure her and them or solidly Ground himself Magna vis veritatis great is the strength of Verity and nothing more true then what is here holden out that to admit with Mr. Menzeis of no Infallible visible Judge of Controversie is the only Fountain and Spring of all Divisions Schisms and Heresies to which this one Protestant Principle opens so wide a Gate SECT IV. Wherein Mr. Menzeis first Ground of the Protestant Religion to wit sole Scripture is shewn to be no Ground to them and that they have not reformed the Church according to the uncorrupted Scriptures but corrupted the Sciptures to deform the Church SCripture then is Protestants ground of Religion and in it all Fundamentals are clear this is very plausible to the ignorant people who think it to be so upon their Ministers Tradition and highly Glory both in reading and explaining the Bible Yet no peculiar Ground to them as was required all Hereticks for ought M. Menzeis hath said pretending with as great reason the same Neither have Heresies says St. Augustine l. 1. c. 4. contr ad vers leg proph or certain Doctrines bewitching the mind sprung from any other Head then from good Scriptures not well understood But to proceed with order before we come to the understanding of Scripture First What Scripture I pray you is this the Protestant Ground Is it the Scripture Translated or in the Original Tongues Mr. Menzeis speaks nothing of this The learned Chamiers cited as a chief Protestant Champion by him in his Panstratia l. 1. c. 2. s 15. Says only true Originals adding as for Translations the sense of Protestants is that all of them of what standing name or credit soever they be and with what Diligence Sincerity or Learning soever they were made are only so far certain as they agree with the first Context I mean says he as they express that sense which is certainly manifest to be the true sence of the Hebrew and Greek words And Doctor Daniel in his Treatise the Dippers Dipped has these words p. 1. No Translation is simply Authentical or the undoubted Word of God To these Subscribeâ— Doctor Baron our Countrey man inferiour to no Protestant I know either in Loyalty or Learning Tract 1. c. 2. p. 46. Laici illiterati c. Unlearned Laicks says he believe only Implicitly confusedly and 〈◊〉 upon the Divine Authority of Scripture formeâ—ly taken by reason they can have no certain express and distinct knowledge of the Doctrine contained in Scripture as such or of the agreement of Translations in vulgar Languages with the Originals yea they know not so much but upon other mens testimony and report as that the Doctrine propounded to them to be believed is set down in the Scripture or written Word at all Whence followeth according to these learned Protestants the ground of the Protestant Religion must be only the Scripture in the Original Languages that is Greek Hebrew and Syriack which of a thousand Protestants 2. does not understand Where then must all other Protestants ground their faith a very few number of Linguists being excepted shal they believe only Implicitely and on other mens report as D. Baron will have them But this is the Colliers Faith Mr. Menzeis jears though I fear all his skill in Languages often force him to turn a Collier himself or shall they rely on Translations which Chamiers after all diligence used and Doctor Daniel with him confess not to be the undoubted Word of God but in so far as they are known to agree with the Hebrew and Greek Texts and how few undoubtedly know this Yea Protestant Translations of the Bible are so generally corrupt that you shall find none that has not been challenged even by most learned Protestants for manifold corruptions and that very gross To begin at Luther let us hear Zuinglius of him Tom. 2. ad Luther C. de Sacram. fol. 412. Where after detection of many corruptions in Luther he concludes thus See how thy case standeth that in the eyes of all men thou art seen to be a manifest and common corrupter of holy Scripture which thing thou canst never deny before any Creature how much are we ashamed of thee who hereto have esteemed thee beyond all measure and now find thee to be such a false fellow Neither can Luther deny his corruptions himself for in that place of St. Paul where a man is said to be justified by faith he grants l. Contra Cochleum p. 408. he puts into the Text the word only which the Apostle has not Licet Paulus verbo sola non utatur qou ego usus sum and is not this a main place Protestants use against us so well are they grounded in Scripture Of Calvin Charles Molinaeus in his Translation of the New Testament part 2. fo 110. says Calvin in his Harmony maketh the Text of the Scripture to leap up and down as the truth it self declareth he useth violence to the Letter of the Gospel and in many places clearly transposes it and besides this addeth to the Text. Are these the Reformers of the Church by the uncorrupted word or corrupters of the Word to deform the Church Castalio saith of Beza That to note all his Errors in translating the New Testament it would require a great volume Five times he differs from himself though one of the best Linguists ever Protestants had King James a great Scholar as a great Monarch in the sum of the conference before his Majesty thinks the Geneva Translation the worst of all others And Mr. Parkes in his defence of the first Testimony concerning Christs descending into Hell says as for the Geneva Bibles it is to be wished that either they be purged from those manifold Errours which are both in the Text and at the Margent or else utterly prohibited Now as to our own Translations in English Mr. Bruges in his Apology Sect. 6. Says plainly that the approved Protestant Translation hath many omissions many additions which sometimes obscure sometime pervert the sense And M. Carleil p. 116. remarkes that the English Protestants in many places detort the Scriptures from their right sense and shew themselves to love darkness more then light falshood more then truth they have corrupted and depraved the sense obscured the Truth deceived the Ignorant and supplanted the simple And Mr. Broughton a chief Linguist in England in his Epistle to the Lords of the Privy Council desireth them to procure speedily a new Translation because that which is now is full of Errours And in his
Advertisement of corruptions to the Protestant Bishops saith that their publick Translation of Scriptures is such as it perverteth the Text of the Old Testament in four hundred forty eight places and that it causeth millions of millions to reject the New Testament and run to Eternal flames How many divers and different Translations in Queen Elizabeths and King James times how often what was first at the Margent hath been put in the Text Now if Translators of the Scripture in English men furnished with so many helps endued with so many gifts so well versed in the Hebrew and Greek tongues so guided by all the Rules Mr. Menzeis gives to attain the right meaning and sense of Holy Writ have fallen into so many and so gross errours and Mistakes as to have depraved detorted wrested obscured the Scripture and Word of God so that it as Translated by them decieveth the Ignorant supplanteth the simple perverteth the Text in so many places as that it carrieth milions to Eternal Flames What hope can any one have of meaner Talents with fewer helps and less learning and knowledge to attain by his own private reading of Scripture the undoubted Truth Steadiness in faith and Religion a full and satisfactory solution of all doubts or security of Salvation and yet these very same so corrupt Translations as their own Ghospellers testifie are read in Churches expounded in Pulpits and put in the hand of every one who understands neither Latine Greek nor Hebrew as his sole ground of Faith and Judg of controversie whereby he is made able to Judge not only of Popish Errors the Writings of the Fathers and Decrees of Councils but even of his own Pastors Doctrine his Churches Faith and his Countries Religion Secondly to come to the Originals Shall they then onely be the Protestants Ground of Faith If so I ask Mr. Menzeis where we shall find them Yea we are so far from having all the Originals that it is doubted in what Language some parts of Scripture were written The purity of Originals is sometimes called in Question and Calvin Inst l. 1. C. 13. Doth imagine even these the Fountains run not always clear Luther Enar. in Is Cryes out on the Jews for crucifying the Text as well as Christ and upon Gen. C. 24. Says again he has often told many words there be in the Hebrew Text which the Hebrews themselves do not understand And to say true amongst the Jews the least of their three Massoreshe's so they call the Book which contains the many corruptions and divers Lections in the Hebrew Text counts eight hundred places disagreeing ambiguous or corrupt neither do the most learned Rabbies agree in the Letter of Scripture In Hebrew it self some reading according to the Points or Vowels put in by Rabbi Jacob and some by these of Rabbi Aron most different one from another all the points being added to the Text Five hundred years after Christ and that by his professed Enemies the Jews long after the Vulgar Latine Translation which was made before the Text and Letter of Scripture was corrupt But Protestants take in also with these the corruptions of the Greek Text remarked in part by St. Ireneus Tertullian Origen and others says Eusebius when the ancient Hereticks the Arians Macedonians Nestorians c. had corrupted and adulterated the Word of God to support their Errours as Protestants at present in all their Translations do I know M. Menzeis will tell me perhaps he hath seen both the Hebrew and the Greek Texts well but who assures him they are not corrupt Yes but the Protestants have corrected them and that according to the Authenticks which never any Protestant did see The most Learned amongst Protestants have never seen the Original Scriptures which were first penned by the Prophets Apostles and Evangelists Copies are no less subject to faults in the Letter then Translations to mistakes in the sense Yea the Authors of that great famous Bible that is Printing at London if not yet ended in so many Languages witnesseth in the Preface they have set out not so much as one Copy could be found they can assure to agree in all things with the Original their labour may be great in this vast Volume to correct the Copies they find deficient but their Authority is not Infallible In a word no Infallible Authority is admitted by Protestants to judge either of the Letter or Sense For that savours rankly says M. Menzeis of that Erroneous Popish Tenet of an Infallible visible Judge of Controversie And I Answer to deny one in all these and such like cases savours rankly of a tottering wavering groundless Faith most like to that of M. Menzeis I say yet further if no Translations of Scripture can be a ground of Faith as most learned Protestants grant so neither any Original it would seem without some Infallible Judg for I must ever be sure they are unccorrupted and again all the defect in Translations coming from the misunderstanding of Originals I ask who dare say he understands them better then they who have Translated and upon this as he himself reads and conceives ground his Religion and Faith Thirdly before all this if M. Menzeis will prove it a solid Ground to rely on sole Scripture as the onely ground of Faith without any Infallible visible Judge or assurance that he who tells me this is the uncorrupted Letter this the true and genuine Sense has the peculiar assistance of the Holy Ghost I demand what Infallible Motive can prudently perswade Protestants that the Word of God they rely on was ever set down in Writing or is extant at this day Is it the testimony of Scripture calling it self Gods Word or the Innate Light of the same Scripture showing it self to be such to a well disposed Intellect and mind If the first do not Nicodemus and S. Thomas Gospels carry the same titles with these of St. Matthew and St. Mark If the second then the Fathers of the first three ages whom M. Menzeis most owns were not well disposed persons who did not acknowledge some Books of Scripture till the Authority of a Council at Carthage had declared them Canonical and much less Luther that holy man who rejecteth St. James Epistle with some others As Protestants ground their Faith say they on Gods word so Quakers on the Spirit and we deny not but both be equally Infallible if once known Infallibly to be the Spirit or Word of God But we demand of each Sect what Infallible External Rule or Motive they give us to know either Gods Word speaking in Scripture or Spirit in them Both answer with M. Menzeis they both show themselves to all who are well disposed But this clears not us the well disposed heart being only known to God let all then be objectively true as M. Menzeis sayes his Religion is which they both teach as certainly is what ever by Gods Word or Spirit is revealed we only insist to know Infallibly that
the 19. he writes thus We confess that neither conference of places nor consideration of what followeth or goes before nor looking into Originals are of any force unless we find the things which we conceive to be understood and meant in the places interpreted to be consonant to the Rule of Faith that is Tradition conserved in the Church neither is there any of our Divines that ever taught otherwise Where you see by Doctor Field M. Menzeis is discarded from being a Protestant Divine the Scripture however clear is declared to be no Rule or Ground of Faith but according to the sense of them that went before us as all other means besides Tradition in his 16. Ch. are propounded to be but probable Conjectures and not infallible grounds And this most rationally for what private man as I have said can assure himself that either the finding out the true sense of Scripture as to him is tyed to the means of Interpretation M. Menzeis sets down or that he makes a right use of all these means For as the same Dr. Field judiciously remarks and ingenuously grants with S. Augustine contra Ep. Fundam and de Util. cred few men have leasure fewer strength of understanding to examine the particular Controversies so many and so intricate in these our dayes and that the way to satisfie their Consciences in this most important affair is to find out the true Church and rest in her judgment Ad sapientiam says S. Augustine in Ecclesia Spirituales pauci perveniunt caeteram vero turbam non intelligendi vivacitas sed credendi simplicitas tutissimam facit that is few even Spiritual ones in the Church attain to perfect knowledge the rest being made most sure not by their quickness in understanding but by their simplicity in believing 2. This the Protestants way is but a trifling loosing of time never having been found able to settle debates amongst themselves as witness 60. Synods holden in 60. years time says Rescius l. de Atheismo in which all taking Scripture for their ground without any Infallible Judge did so little agree that they parted not so much as good friends Neque dantes dextras fraternitatis aut humanitatis How many Examples of this amongst Lutherans and Calvinists Prelaticks and Presbyterians and even in our confessions of Faith and Covenant among our selves I know M. Menzeis Answer will be their Dissentions are not in Fundamentals of these I shall speak presently in the next Section only here I ask why then so great cruelty so much bloud so many Excommunications and Curses If they did not think them so who moved such troubles they were either most cruel or mad as Tertullian l. de praescr most truly says in Disputing out of Texts of Scripture that is as every man reads and understands there is no other good got but either to make a man sick or mad It is not so in the Catholick Church what ever M. Menzeis says of Jesuits and Dominicans neither party having ever contested in any thing that was once decided by the Church 3. The Protestants way is Preposterous Religion being Established before the Scriptures and they only written to true believers whence Tertullian prescribing against all Hereticks says We do not admit them to dispute from Scripture till first they can show who their Ancestors were from whom by whom when and to whom the form of Christian Religion was delivered Whereupon to conclude all this I ask at M. Menzeis is every particular man amongst Protestants infallibly assured by Scripture of what he believes If so why not then Catholicks and all the Catholick Church they receive the Scriptures with Protestants yea Protestants only from them their Churchmen read the Scriptures with as great diligence they be in a far greater number they have ten for one who have Expouded it they apply no less all the means for a right Interpretation they study the Originals confer Places pray many hours both day and night have no Wives Children or Family to divert them most of them have renounced all pretence to Riches Honours and all Temporal Interests wherewith they might be Byassed any wise in what they profess The extraordinary and unparallelled pains they take in the most Barren Savage and cruel nations of the Earth for their conversion to Christianity would seem sufficient to evidence both the good disposition of their minds and the sincere intention of their hearts beyond the Preachers of whatsoever Sect Their manifold Writings witness enough the solidity and quickness of their wits and even their Wonders and Mracles in latter ages in all most Authentick Records of History would make believe they want not the assistance of the the Spirit yea and of the power of God and yet that we should think that they are blinded Protestants see clear they mistake Scripture Protestants take it aright they are misled by the Spirit of Errour Protestants directed by the Spirit of Truth what Reason Proof or Probability for this But why do Protestants pretend it is so Forsooth chiefly because they acknowledge one high Bishop in the whole Church as Protestants a primate in each Kingdom with the Negative voice to silence all private sowers of Dissention and keep unity because they take the Canons and Rules of their Faith from Scripture explained in general Councils and the Unanimous consent of the Church and Fathers and not by private Reading because in a word they reverence Publick Authority establisht by God in his Church above particular Opinions and Conceits Why then should Scripture be called a Ground to Protestants who neither did receive it from Christ and his Apostles as all Historians and Chronologues marking the rise of Protestancy in Luther his dayes do evidence nor have it uncorrupt as their own Doctors and Ghospellers do acknowledge Nor take it in the true sense upon publick Authority but as they fancy upon private Reading and Interpretation against the Apostle And not rather to Catholicks who having received the Scriptures from Christ and his Apostles as the Word of God left to his Church which she is bound to have an Eye to in all her Decisions Statutes and Laws so that none of them be Repugnant to it in the least neither by adding or pairing in Words or Sense but all fully consonant and conform to both In acknowledgement whereof in all her General Councils she placeth it above Pope Prelates Pastors who in all the search they make into former Councels Fathers Schoolmen Tradition or practice of the Church intend nothing else generally speaking then to find out by all possible diligence the true sense and meaning of what is taught us in General and Particular Terms in the Written Word Yet Protestants with all Hereticks most vainly bragg of Scripture as their Ground and Catholicks be calumniated to abandon it as if Loyal Subjects did less rely on the Acts of Parliament and funâ—â—mental Laws who receive them their Sentence and meaning from the lawful Judges establisht
who in his Book against the Sacramentarians says plainly They believe in God the Father Son and Holy Ghost in vain all these things avail them nothing for as much as they deny this Article of the Real Presence and attach him of falshood who said of the Sacrament This is my Body And he had reason for St. Thomas 2.2 q. 5. a 3. with other Divines teach he has no Spiritual Faith who believeth not every thing little or great Fundamental or not Proposed to him by the same Authority Whereupon they infer that no Sectary upon his own choice adhering to this or that believeth any thing So Tertullian l. de praesc speaking against Valentine says some things of the Law and Prophets he approveth some things not that is difalloweth all whil'st he disproveth some 3. From all this appeareth how idlely this distinction of fundamntals not fundamentals in the Protestans sense was brought in by them it serving to no other purpose then to palliate their divisions at present deceive Ignorants in the pretended succession they claim to in old condemn'd Hereticks whose Errors they will have to be no Fundamentals As M. Menzeis taking Hierome of Prague John Huss Wickcliff the Waldenses and Grecians for true Protestants before Luther to make up an imaginary Succession in the Protestant Church which to do with any apparent shew of Truth 1. He should prove those Sects to have been the Catholick Church spread through the whole world and owned as such by the Fathers of those times 2. Justifie their Doctrine which we find partly in their own Writings partly in the most Authentick Records of the Ages wherein they lived to have been in many things most false erroneous and unchristian 3. Their succession from the Apostles times finding their Bishops and Pastors in the Registers of the Church History or Fathers Neither will he make this good by the Authority of Friar Reiner who speaking of the Waldenses whom he names Lionists says at most even as Illiricus quotes his words some affirm they have been from the time of Pope Sylvester others from the dayes of the Apostles M. Menzeis to make the Argument stronger will have Friar Reiner to say absolutely they were from the time of the Apostles with his ordinary ingenuity but what I pray you concludes he from this Those who said so being Lionists themselves as witnesseth Piliâ—hdorphius So a little before Waldo there arose Hereticks who falsly bragged of the same even as after them Protestants do now But if you or they either sir were in all ages from the Apostles tell us the Authours in every age who marked the succession of your Pastors where lived your people c. then refute the great number of learned Writers who lived when such Sects did start up in a suddain as a Mushrome in a night marking their Rise and noting their Errours which certainly they had never done if such Doctrine had been professed before as that of the true and visible Church But to speak a word in particular of every one of those Sects with what ignorance and falshood M. Menzeis calls them true Protestants you shall presently see And first in John Huss to whose name I am sure he has a more just claim then to his Religion if we trust all the most Authentick Records of Huss his Doctrine I cite not for this the Juridick Acts of the Council at Constance because Popish not Father Gordon of Huntley no less eminent for his Learning then Birth because a Jesuit though living in Prague in Boheme where Hussits most abound and having made most diligent enquiry of their Tenents he found as he witnesseth Cont. 3. de Euch. c. 17. they did hold Invocation of Saints Prayer for the dead the Fastings and Ceremonies of the Catholick Church with free will confession of Sins seven Sacraments c. But I hope he will trust Fox a most firy Protestant speaking thus upon the 2. Ch. of the Revelation What did Huss at any time teach or defend in the Council wherein he did not seem superstitiously to consent with the Papists what did the Popish Faith decree concerning Transubstantiation which he likewise with the Papists did not confirm who celebrated Mass more Religiously then he or more Religiously observed the Vows of Priestly Chastity Concerning Free Will Predestination informed Faith that is without Charity the cause of Justification and merit of good Works what other thing did he hold then is taught at Rome All this he and more in his Monuments that he did acknowledge seven Sacraments and the Popes Supremacy p. 216. and 227. And if he should as yet disown Fox as a private Writer yet must he trust Luther as a man extraordinarily sent by God to Reform the Church and the 14. Apostle The Papists burned Huss says he Colloq Germ. C. de Antich when as yet he departed not a fingers breadth from the Papacy for he taught the same which the Papists do only he found fault with their Vices against the Pope he did nothing To the same purpose Luther has much more Tom. 2. in Assert art 30. and Tom. 3. in Ps 2. But in fine should not Huss himself be trusted better then any his works are extant and perusing them you shall find he did hold seven Sacraments upon the fifth of S. James Transubstantiation in his Book of the Lords Supper Ch. 2. and 3. the Sacrifice of the Mass in his Sermon of Funerals Purgatory and Prayers for the Dead in the same place confession of sins to a Priest in his Treatise of pennance invocation of Saints in his Epistles 22.30.35 Veneration of Relicks upon Ps 115. yea in his question of believing the Popes Supremacie as to his office dignity and power though with this Caveat common to him with Wicliff that ecclesiastical dignity as well as Civil was grounded on Inherent Justice and so lost by Mortal Sin which neither Catholicks nor Protestants do teach Nevertheless M. Menzeis is not ashamed to own Huss for a Protestant so constant is he in professing his Fundamentals which he will have to be in Scripture so clear I insist not so much on the rest yet to say a little of every one Of Hierome of Prague Fox pag. 585. relateth whatever was his Opinion in other things yet stood he constantly in defence of the real Presence and Transubstantiation saying he did give more credit to S. Augustine and other Doctors of the Church who affirmed the same then to any that denyed it Wikcliff again M. Menzeis is not ashamed to call a Protestant who in his own Writings so expresly holds against them 1. Worship of Images in his 9. Ch. of the Eucharist Images says he we adore purely as signs but God we must adore with all our power It is therefore granted that Relicks Images and the Sacraments be with prudence to be adored He did also hold Invocation of Saints in his Sermon of the Assumption into Heaven of our blessed Lady
2.24 Ye see then how that by Works a man is justified and not by Faith only Is it not to protest against his Divine Appointment again and his Word to teach that good Works done in his Grace and by his Grace merit nothing when through all the Scripture Heaven is promised as a reward to our Works and in St. Matth. 10. It is said Christ shall render to every one according to his Works Is it not to protest against his Divine Authority and Word to deny the Real Presence All the Evangelists speaking so clearly This is my Body this is my Blood Is it not to protest against his express Command and Word to forbid Images as Idols He having ordered two Cherubims to be set on the Ark of the Covenant Exod. 25. Is it not to protest against his own Practice and Word to deny we should honour his Saints whom God himself Honours yea and glorifies Them that honour me I will honour 1 Reg. 2.30 Is it not to protest against his Dispensation and Word to deny the Power given to his Apostles and their Successours to forgive sins he having said in S. John 20.23 Whose sins ye shall forgive they are forgiven Is it not to protest against the Satisfaction which his Justice requires for our sins even after the guilt is forgiven to deny Purgatory The Scripture witnessing that he did exact satisfaction of David and many holy penitent sinners after he had forgiven their sins And S. Paul 1 Cor. 3. If any ones work burn he shall suffer loss but himself shall be saved yet so as by fire where we have clearly a purging and punishing yet saving fire Is it not to protest against Christs Eternal Priesthood according to the order of Melchisedech Ps 109. and S. Paul Hebr. 5. to reject the unbloody and unspotted Sacrifice of the Mass which the Prophet Malachy 1. C. 10. V. calls a clean Oblation to be offered amongst the Gentiles from the rising of the Sun even to the setting and that in every place Is it not to protest against all God commands us and his Word to take away free Will in obeying Deut. 30.19 I have set before you life and death chuse To conclude what Point is there in all the Catholick Faith which Protestants protest against which is not either Directly against Gods Divine Attributes Christs Mediation and Dispensation his Churches Authority his Saints and Servants honour some part of Christian duty belief or life or generally not against his express written Word as it is plain in it self or expounded by the unanimous consent of the Fathers And yet so impudently bold is this spirit of Heresie as to dare say that that is contained in Scripture which Scripture most evidently contradicts that is only in opposition to Popish Errours which impugnes the very Fundamental and most substantial Verities of the Gospel and Christian Faith that by the pure and uncorrupted word it will reform the Church when corrupting the Word and correcting the Church as subject to failings and Errours in Religion it ruinateth both Church and Word What has been said in this and the former Section further instanced in two Particular Controverted Points The Real Presence and two Sacraments THE Protestant Religion is The Christian Religion as contained in Scripture Sole Scripture is their Ground and in it all Fundamentals are clear Says M. Menzeis How false all this is in general doth evidently I hope appear by what I have said above Here I instance only further two particular Points he handles at length the better to make see the falshood of his strong and bold Assertions in the weakness and nullity of his Proofs And this first in his refuting one of our chief Tenets viz. The Real Presence then in maintaining one of his own to wit That there are two Sacraments and no more 1. Then to prove Christs body is not really in the Sacrament these most clear words This is my body must not says he be taken in the literal sense but Figuratively why so doth the Scripture say this no no Scripture is brought What then a Philosophical Demonstration as he pretends The word this in the literal sense is inexplicable and the Proposition implyeth a contradiction ergo c. But why the Pronoun this inexplicable because let Romanists strain their wits Answers M. Menzeis and squeeze their Authors they cannot tell what it can signifie whether the Bread Body or something indeterminately Who would not laugh here to see Mr. Menzeis a professor of Divinity take such a weak Argument for a Demonstration most like in this to a certain Romantick Knight Errand call'd Don Quicsot who imagining to himself a Windmil to be a Gyant and then fighting with it as with a Hector he did both blunt his Sword and batter his Reputation For what I pray you doth the Pronone this signifie in any proportion but Indeterminately till it be determined to some particular thing by the following words So that let a man say a hundred times this he determines nothing but by the ensuing words as here This is my Body makes a determinated sense the last words determinating the first which alone and of it self signifies nothing determinately and so to seek what it signifies determinately alone and before the other words be pronounced is to quibble and speak non-sense by seeking a determinate Object under a word which of its nature hath none And this is the first part of his Demonstration for establishing by a Logick Sophism without any clear Scripture a main Point of Religion The second part of this Demonstration is That it implyes a manifest contradiction a true Affirmative Proposition de praesenti should produce its Object Why this because in the instant of Nature wherein the Proposition is conceiv'd before its Object as the cause before its Effect the Proposition should be true as is supposed and not true because the Object in that instant is not The same Argument he urgeth in the instant of time wherein the Copula is pronounced or Particle is before the two last words And for that Catholick Authours give many and diverse Solutions of this Argument as the Custome is in the School he will be satisfied with none But because Mr. Menzeis is good at Retortions I retort his Argument thus Is not this a true Affirmative Proposition de praesenti which produces its Object in St. John 15. This is my command that ye love one another Now what difficulty in the former Proposition either in the word this or in the Instants of Nature and Time or that a true affirmative Proposition make its own Object which is not here do not these words make a new Command says Christ as the former his body what if M. Menzeis could have brought an Axiome of Philosophy against the Real Presence as that Maxime so commonly propounded and answered in the School quae sunt eadem cum uno tertio sunt eadem inter se proving as would seem that
off to ground their greatness on new Conquests And the Naturalists observe that Trees and Plants do presently fade when their Roots do not spread as the Branches spring up So the Protestant Religion should have instantly been chocked in its Rise and as smothered in the Cradle If Protestants standing constantly to their first Principle had still rejected the Doctrine of the Church under the specious pretence of adhering only to the pure and naked Word as a Ground most pure and clear Scriptures making so clearly against them Wherefore though the first Reformers as I shall presently shew did disclaim the Doctrine of the Church in any Age after the Apostles as infallible or Ground of Faith disclaim the Fathers disclaim Miracles disclaim a Succession from any Yet others after the first heat of passion had a little relented finding all this most disgraceful and a most evident Conviction of their Errours and fearing their Religions both fall and ruine if not speedily propped claim a Succession though from Old condemned Heresies with M. Menzeis here from the Waldenses Wickliffians Hussits as we have seen Cite the Fathers though either to no purpose or else corruptedly with Du Plessis so evidently confuted by the Cardinal Du Peron pretend to Miracles with M. Pool in his Nullity of the Romish Faith though falsly most Protestants disowning Miracles since the Apostles time and all the world witnessing it did never see a Miracle amongst them yea they grant in fine the diffusive body of the Church to be infallible in believing but not the Representative or Pastors even assembled in a General Council Infallible in Teaching with M. Menzeis again here Who upon this gives us for a second Ground of the Protestant Religon The Doctrine of the Church in the first three Centuries or Ages The sole reason he gives for the Churches Doctrine as being a Ground of Faith at that time is because if the Catholick Religion was not then purely conserved in her it was no where to be found ab sit says he blasphemia which without blasphemy cannot be thought Whereupon I first reflect that if it be blasphemy to deny the Catholick Religion must always be purely conserved in some Church many chief Protestants surely speak open blasphemy who most boldly affirm before the Reformation made by Luther and Calvin no Church to have conserved true Religion in its purity at all Luther comment in 1 Cor. 1.15 I was the first to whom God vouchsafed to reveal these Doctrines which are now Preached this praise they cannot take from us that we were the first that brought light to the world Without our help no man had ever learned one word of the Ghospel This M. Wotton both acknowledgeth and confirmeth in Exam. Jur. Rom. Luther might well say he was the first a Son without a Father a Schollar without a Master c. Calvin in an Epistle of his to Melancthon It doth not a little concern us sayes he that not the least suspition of any Discord risen amongst us descends to Posterity for it were a thing more then absurd after we have been constrained to make separation from the whole world if we in our beginning should also divide from one another Chillingworth Ch. 5. Sect. 55. as for the External Communion of the visible Church we have without Scruple formerly granted that Protestants did forsake it Bucer p. 660. All the world erred he speaks before the Reformation in that Article of the Real Presence Bibliander in orat ad princip Germ. c. 72. it is without all question that from the time of Gregory the great the Pope is the Antichrist who with his abomination hath made drunk all Kings and people from the highest to the lowest Brochard on the second Ch. Rev. p. 4. when the first assault was made upon the Papacy by Luther the knowledge of Christ was wanting in all and every one of his members White in his defence C. 37. Pa. 136. Popery was a Leprosie breeding so universally in the Church that there was no visible company of men appearing in the world free from it Bennet Morgentern in his Treatise of the Church calls it ridiculous to say any before Luther had the purity of the Gospel Simon Voyon Cat. Doct. in his Epistle to the Reader says when Pope Boniface was installed then was that universal Apostacy from the Faith which was foretold by Paul M. Jewel upon the Revelation fol. 110. The truth was then unheard of when Luther and Zwingle came to preach the Ghospel Febustian Francus in his Epistle of abrogating Ecclesiastical Statutes says for certain through the work of the Antichrist the External Church together with the faith and Sacraments vanished away presently after the Apostles departure and for these thousand and four hundred years the Church hath been no where External and Visible From all which Testimones of most renowned Protestants yea and of the very first Reformers is evidently proved First that they did not think any visible Church to have conserved at all times the purity of the Gospel which M. Menzeis calls blasphemy to deny Secondly that they claim not a Succession from any that went before them except only from the Apostles what ever later Protestants do falsly pretend Thirdly that they own no more the diffusive body of the Church infallible then the Representative seeing no Church prosessing the Doctrine they did teach is acknowledged by them for many hundred years before the Reformation Fourthly That Popery was the only Religion generally prevailing and openly professed for no less time then fourteen hundred years before Luther Fifthly how well M. Menzeis agreeth with other Protestants in this his second Ground of Faith You shall presently God willing hear both greater and better witnesses deposing against him but first I ask what peculiar reason he has why the Church in her childhood and younger age should be a ground of Faith and not afterwards and in her full maturity as we grant her the fulness of Divine Wisdom even from her birth which did not increase by age so by age it cannot decay We shall now presently see how like the Protestant Church is to that of the three first Centuries but before this I would know why M. Menzeis gives her Doctrine rather for a ground then in following times Is there any peculiar promise made to her any particular reason militates for her or any testimonies of the Scriptures or Fathers given to her in one time rather then in another was her Doctrine then purer her Condition more flourishing her authority greater Doth not M. Menzeis grounding his Faith upon the Doctrine of the Church in any age after the Apostles confirm that Romish Tenet of the Church Doctrine as a Ground in other Ages by parity of reason Secondly I reflect that M. Menzeis who will admit of no Infallible Visible Judg of Controversie of no Infallible Tradition not contained in Scripture nor of any Assembly of the Fathers and Pastor of the Church in
with Pope Pius in his confession of Faith in all those Points quoted by them Free Will Merit of Works Invocation of Saints honouring of Relicks Prayer and Sacrifice for the Dead S. Peters Primacy amongst the Apostles the Popes Supremacy in the Church Mass Traditions the Real Presence Confession Pennance Absolution c. So that if M. Menzeis will stand to his own word and trust the Writings of his brethren He is here again engaged to turn Papist Many more such Quotations could I produce from chief Protestant Writers acknowledging both the Church and Fathers of the first three Ages holding most controverted Tenets flatly against Protestants And yet so confident M. Menzeis is he dare take the Church Doctrine at that time for a Ground of the Protestant Religion and this no doubt to shew the deepness of his Learning and how well he is versed in Antiquity till presently we hear the Fathers themselves speaking the better to make both his Weakness and Igorance appear But before I enter upon this I remark M. Menzeis in his 8. paper says we agree with Protestants in all their Positive Tenets and only in their Negatives disagree How true this is I do not now dispute yet must here reflect that all chief Heresies for the most part with that of Protestants have ever consisted in Negations and in denying some Points of Faith generally received in the Church Sabellius denyed three persons in the God-head Eutiches two Natures in Christ Nestorius in Christ one Person The Monothelites two wills in Christ as two Natures The Arians Christ to be consubstantial with his Father The Macedonians the consubstantiality of the Holy Ghost Marcion that Baptism in the Church should be conferred but once The Novatians that sinners after Baptism could be absolved upon Repentance and even such Heresies Protestants most claim to as the Grecians deny the Procession of the Holy Ghost from the Father and the Son the Waldenses deny Princes and Magistrates to conserve their Digities and Power when fallen in mortal sin The Hussits deny that the predestinate could sin the Albigenses Marriages to be lawful the Wickliffians Free Will and so forth Negatio est Malignantis naturae say the Philosophers Negations are of a Malignant Nature whence we see that as Atheism consists in denying God so Heresies are most in Negations as flowing from the Spirit of Pride contradiction Rebellion However it is time we shew what conformity there is betwixt Protestants Negative Tenets and the Doctrine of the Church in the first three Centuries or Ages M. Menzeis provoking so confidently his Adversary to bring any Essential difference from the Authentick writings of these Fathers and upon this engaging to turn Papist I do not here question further then I have done in my second reflection how he who admits of no Infallible Visible Judge can be sufficiently assured of their Authentick Writings for if he take this only upon their conformity with Scripture they can make no peculiar Ground to him rather then other mens Writings having the like conformity with it or can they be caled properly a distinct Ground from it But having seen how many chief Protestants disown the most antient Fathers chalenge them of manyfold Errours censure their Doctrine a most strong conviction against M. Menzeis that they take not their Writings for a Ground let us hear themselves deposing clearly in our favour against him and see if they who have confounded so many Atheists convinced so many Infidels converted so many Hereticks may even happily prevail with M. John I cite here only the Fathers in the first three Centuries after Christ as M. Menzeis makes only his appeal to them In which Ages the Church being still under persecution had not indeed so many Writers as in following times to witness her Doctrine against all Hereticks Yet you shall God willing see how clearly the chiefest of them dissent from Protestants in all controverted Tenets and most disgracefully bely him The Fathers of the first three ages clearly speaking against Protestants in all Chief Controverted Tenets I Begin even at what is most Principal to wit the Popes Supremacy this Potestants deny But in the first Age S. Denis de divinis nominibus C. 3. calls S. Peter first Bishop of Rome the Supreme and most antient top of Divines Where both Primacy and Supremacy is given to him S. Clement Disciple of S. Peter in his first Epistle declares him both the ground stone of the Church and the most powerful of the Apostles S. Ignatius Disciple of S. John in his Epistle to the Romans extolling their Church calls her The Church that presides at Rome In the second Age S. Irenaeus l. 3. contra Valent C. 3. says the Romish Church is the greatest and most antient And again l. 3. C. 3. all Churches round about ought to resort to the Roman Church by reason of her more powerful Principality In the third Age Zepherinus Pope in his Epistle to the Bishops of Sicily decreed That the greater causes of the Church were to be determined by the Apostolick Sea because so the Apostles and ther Successors had ordained In the third Age Origen on the 6. Ch. to the Rom. says The chief charge of feeding Christs Sheep was given to S. Peter and the Church founded upon him In the same Age S. Cyprian Ep. ad Jul. We hold Peter the Head and Root of the Church and again Ep. 55. he calls the Church of Rome S. Peters Chair Yea in the second Century Amandus Polonus M. Spark and M. Whitaker though Protestants confess that Victor then Bishop of Rome whom M. Whitgift calls a godly Bishop carried himself as Pope or Head of the Church So well has Protestant Doctrine in this Point a Ground in rhe Fathers of the first three Ages that Danaeus a Protestant in his Answer to Bellarmine acknowledgeth Soveraign Authority to have been practised by the Popes of the third Age the Centurists Cent. 3. that Tertullian did think the keys to be committed chiefly to S. Peter and the Church to be built on him and S. Cyprian to have taught that the Roman Church ought to be acknowledged of all others the Mother Church Now shall all this be called Protestant Doctrine that S. Peter was Head and Root of the Church that the Church was founded upon him that the chief charge of Christs Flock was given to him that he is the Supreme amongst Divines that the Church of Rome is his Chair which for this hath a more powerful Principality as greatest so that the greater causes in the Church ought to be decided by her where by parts all the Controversie of the Popes Supremacy is holden out against them Secondly Protestants deny we should believe any thing not contained in Scripture upon Apostolical Tradition conserved in the Church But in the first age S. Denis Eccl. Hierarch C. l. speaking of the Apostles says These our first Captains of Priestly Function did deliver to us the chiefest and most
as the Word of God upon the sole Authority of the Church As M. Whitaker against Stapleton p. 1. c. 11. I deny not but the Churches Tradition is the Argument whereby to convince what Books are Canonical and what not M. Fulk in his Answer to a Counterfeit Catholick The Church hath judgment to discern the Word of God from the Writings of Men. M. Covel in his defence of Hooker Doubtless it is a tolerable Opinion of the Church of Rome to affirm that the Scriptures are holy in themselves but so esteemed of us for the Authority of the Church And M. Hooker in his Ecclesiastical Policy we all know that the first outward Motive leading men so to esteem of Scripture is the Authority of the Church And as these own her Authority in Propounding the Scripture Books so other Protestants in resolving all Doubts and deciding all Debates as Bancroft Lord Archbishop of Canterbury in his Sermon on the 8. of February 1588. God says he hath bound himself to his Church of purpose that men by her direction might in matters of doubt be relieved he speakes of the Representative Church which onely directeth Master Field in the Epistle to his Treatise of the Church Seeing the Controversies of Religion are grown in number so many and in Nature so Intricate that few have time and leasure fewer strength of understanding to examine them what remaineth for men desirous of satisfaction in things of such consequence but diligently to search out which among all the Societies of men in the World is that blessed company of holy ones that houshold of Faith that Spouse of Christ and Church of the living God the Pillar and Ground of Truth that so they may imbrace her Communion follow her Doctrine and rest in her judgement Here again the Representative Church both Judging and Teaching M. Hooker in the Preface of his Books of Ecclesiastical Policy We are right sure of this that Nature Scripture and Experience have taught the World to seek for the ending of Contentions by submitting it self to some judicial and definitive sentence whereunto neither part that contendeth may under any pretence refuse to submit And what is this but a General Council M. Bilson in his perpetual Government is clear for it To have no Judge sayes he for the ending of Ecclesiastical Contentions were the utter subversion of all peace Synods are surest means to decide doubts Sr. Edwin Sands in his Relation of the Religion used in the West parts of the World The Protestants are as severed and scattered Troops each drawing a diverse way without any means to take up their Controversies c. No ordinary way to Assemble a General Council of their part which is the only hope remaining ever to aswage their Contentions 3. Reason evinceth it The true Church is the School of infallible and Divine Truths then she must have infallible Masters and Propounders A fallible Church is most properly named by a Learned Writer a Spiritual cheat it may well be called the Ground of Opinion Doubt and Despair but not of Infallible and Divine Faith If the Sheep hearing the voice of their Pastors and following them be misled who shall be their sure Guide And if all the Fathers and Doctors of the Church together assembled may mistake either the uncorrupted Letter or true sense of Scripture who I pray you can assure himself he takes it aright No infallibility in matteâ—â— of Faith and Religion is left upon Earth 〈◊〉 the high Bishop and chief Pastors of the Church unanimously Teaching and Propounding cannot err It were more then madness any man should say the contrary and yet hold himself infallibly secure of what he believes Would a Protestant be but once at the pains to speak to an Infidel for his conversion to the true Church calling all her Pastors even assembled in a Council fallible I should willingly hear what he could so much as say in general for Protestancy yea or for the Christian Religion No doubt he should first speak of one true God then of Christ and Faith in him as necessary to salvation telling his Proselyte how out of his Goodness and Mercy towards us he had made himself Man and died upon the Cross for our sins Yet afterwards had risen again and by his Miracles showen both his Civinity and Power and by these strange Works and Wonders having established his Church he had delivered his Will and Doctrine to her in his Written Word called the Holy Scripture Upon this the Infidel no little astonished at such a Discourse surely should ask him some Ground for it and how he could be perswaded it were true Here I imagine the Bible is produced as the Word of God and sole ground of Faith But who assures me of this says the infidel It was attested by many Miracles which Christ and the Apostles did work who first preâ—â—hed it Answers the Protestant they were holy men chosen by our Saviour Christ for the conversion of the World they did Teach his Word Infallibly They did set it down in Writing confirmed it with Wonders and left it to the Church How long ago replies the Infidel Nigh 1700. years answers again the Protestant One Question more says the Infidel have you any infallible Witness in your Church or any Infallible External Motive that this is the same Word of God that was Preached by the Apostles and delivered by Christ or that in confirmation of it ever any Miracle was wrought The first needs none says the Protestant it is clear to all well disposed persons turn Protestant and you will Evidently see it to be the Word of God and the second is sufficiently attested in it Presently the Infidel having received further instruction in most Points of Protestancy and made more earnest to see how all that has been taught him is true desires he may have for a time the Bible and diligently perusing it finds some things in the Historical Books look like Fables many more in the Prophets he doth not understand many seeming contradictions betwixt the two Testaments many points he was taught by his Protestant Master not in Scripture at all yea many things clearly against it Of all which he asks his Master a diligent account And first whether at present there be no man or company of men can resolve him infallibly of all these doubts None concludes the Protestant but Scripture it self for since the Apostles there is in the Church no Judg no Propounder infallible If so Sir you conclude nothing with me says the Infidel but here I end with you for the Book you ground all you have said upon as if it were clear and infallible to me like the first Principles in our Philosophers Schools is so deeply obscure and highly above the reach of reason that without some powerful motive and inducement no reasonable man can believe it And since you grant it was at first propounded with infallible Motives which now have ceased It seems God would
have it believed no more For who can prudently believe things not clear in themselves or at least not so to us without some infallible Propunder evidencing by Supernatural Motives as Miracles that such a Doctrine is from God Neither can a Protestant standing to his Principles say any more whence no conversion of Infidels amongst them But no end of their cavelling with us They here urge 1. Suppose the true Church were infallible in her Pastors assembled in a Council yet all we bring in proof of this may be retorted against our private Teachers who are not infallible in propounding But to this it is easily answered that as God most infallibly both by his general Providence and particular Promise directs rules and governs his Church so she by vertue of his special assistance oversees infallibly her private persons in order to our certainty in Faith For in the holy Hierarchy of the Church God hath placed Watchmen most vigilant over their flocks who suffer them not to be misled they have discovered the very least Errors sowen in Corners and branded their Authors as false Teachers Wherefore as unity in belief is the Form and Soul of that great body of the Catholick or Universal Church so whatever Doctrine is commonly taught and received in her without any contradiction from her Pastors is sufficiently known to be infallible 2. They object there is no infallible Propounder of this Article of our Faith The Church is Infallible Answer Yes 1. God shows himself the Propounder of this in the Markes of the Church which we shall presently see 2. As our Saviour Christ calling himself the Son of God and working Miracles did sufficiently yea infallibly evidence to the Jews that it was true what he said So the Church calling her self infallible and working the like Miracles in all Ages doth infallibly evidence to the world that it is true what she says otherwise it would follow that God did employ his Omnipotency and Power to work Miracles in favour of an Impostor thus cheating the world with a lye 3. Therefore I say the Catholick Roman Church is the only true Church in which the Doctrine of Christ is infallibly propounded and certainty in Faith and Salvation to be found This Point is of highest concern according to the Fathers For it is only the Catholick Church says Lactantius l. 4. that hath the true Worship and Service of God That is the Well-spring of Truth the dwelling place of Faith the Temple of God into which whosoever entereth not and from which whosoever departeth is without all hope of Life and Salvation Whosoever is divided from her says S. Augustine in his Epistle 152. how laudable soever he seems to himself to live for this only crime that he is separated from the unity of Christ he shall be excluded from life and the wrath of God shall remain upon him And again in his 50. Epistle as a Member cut off wants the spirit of life so a man separated from the body of Christ cannot have the spirit of Justice c. They have not the Holy Ghost who are out of the Church S. Cyprian de Unitat. Eccl. The Spouse of Christ cannot be defiled with adultery whosoever divided from this Church cleaveth to the Adulteress he is separated from the Promises of the Church he cannot have God for his Father who hath not the Church to his Mother S. Irenaeus l. 3. C. 40. in the Church God hath constituted Apostles Prophets Doctors and all the rest of the Operation of the Spirit whereof those are not partakers who repare not unto the Church where the Church is there is the Spirit of God Vincentius Lyrinensis contr haeres C. 1. 2. says That he having very often most diligently inquired of many Holy and Learned men how he might certainly distinguish the true Catholick Faith from all Heresies it was ever answered him by the Law of God and the Tradition of the Church Divinae legis authoritate Catholicae ecclesiae traditione Then making to himself the common Objection of Protestants seeing the Rule of Scripture is perfect what necessity of joyning to it the Tradition of the Church He presently Answers because all take not Scripture one way and in the same sense because of its deepness All the Fathers run upon this out of the Catholick Church no true Religion no Divine Faith no infallible Guide no sure way to Salvation no hope of Heaven no means to attain Eternal Happiness and Life Wherefore God by his Divine Appointment Order and Decree having tyed us and that under no less pain then the damnarion of our Souls to live in the Unity and Communion of this Church in which only he has placed the Chair of his Doctrine and Channels of his Graces I presuppose 1. This Church may be easily known and that by clear Marks in all Ages and by all she being so amply great and Eminently high that the Prophet Isa Ch. 2. calls her The Mountain of the Lords house established in the top of Mountains and exalted above the Hills to which all Nations should flow 2. Tat those Marks be the same now which did evidence her in Christs and in the Apostles time for all things are best conserved by the same means by which they received their being says the Phylosophers Conservatio continuata productio 3. That whatever Church is found to have these Marks should be undoubtedly acknowledged for the true one otherwise they could not have proved her the true Church at first This presupposed that the Catholick Roman Church is the only true Church I most evidently prove in short for this hath been often done in large volumns and that by a very few undoubted Signes and as it were most legible Characters of the Primitive Church in the time of the Apostles paralelling the one with the other Three things are chiefly remarkable in the Apostles and Church under them 1. Their Sanctity and Holiness of Life 2. The great conversion of Infidels wrought by them 3. Their manifold and wonderful Miracles These be the Marks of their mission by which they show themselves to be the servants of God to be sent by God and that God by his Vertue and Power concurreth and cooperateth with them Their Holy Humble Poor and Austere Life makes them like to their Master Christ and fit Instruments for the great Employment they are going about Miracles make their Credential Letters and witness the fulness of their power Conversions are the end of their Embassy which as it was to last till all the Nations of the earth were brought to the Unity of Faith and bosome of the Church according to that Promise of Christ There shall be one shepherd and one Fold so their true Successors are constantly known by the same Signs in all Ages as the undoubted Marks and Badge of the Apostles I begin at Miracles which I call the Apostles Credentials and make the chief infallible Mark of the true Church and all
who convert King Lucius and his Subjects Scotland ows its conversion to Pope Victor by his Envoys and Legates Ireland to Pope Celestine who sent thither S. Patrick England to S. Augustine sent by S. Gregory the great Clovis first Christian King of France is converted by S. Rhemigius Bishop of Rhemes the Franconians by S. William the Thuringians Hassits and a great part of Germany by S. Boniface the Flemins by Eligius the Danes and Swedes by Ansgratius the Sclavonians and Hungarians by the two Adelberts the Polonians by Aegidius Tusculanus sent by Pope John the 13. run thus through all the other Kingdomes and Provinces of the Christian World you shall constantly find the same And this as in all former Ages so in ours witness the Conversions of the Japonians Indians Brasilians Mexicans Peruans Canadas Algonquins and many other Savage Nations in America the Coasts of Afric and remotest corners of the Earth where the Catholick Roman Church ever like to her self in the Primitive times and her Pastors and Preachers to the Apostles continue their Labours to this day with such success by the blessings of God that they have converted ten to the Christian Faith for one Protestants have perverted But what Kingdom Province or Town did ever Protestancy enter in which it did not find Catholick Never so many Sects of Hereticks yet not one goes to convert Infidels all their business is with Papists and all their Forces employed against the Roman Church a clear Demonstration she is the only true Church so generally opposed by them all But whatever they can do is in vain shee being built on the Rock against which all the Powers of Hell shall not prevail Their Disputes serve for nâ—thing but to clear her Doctrine their Controversies but to confirm her Faith their Persecutions but to Crown her sufferings their unchristian Maxims against the Evangelical Counsels of voluntary Poverty vowed Chastity and a retired humble devote austere and obedient life but to make more gloriously appear the incomparable Sanctity Holiness and Vertues of her Saints And this is the third thing remarkable in the Apostles and Primitive Christians which in all following Ages hath so gloriously shined in the Catholick Roman Church their examplary holiness in following Christ by renouncing to the World living chast contemning both Riches and Pleasures their holy hatred of themselves the hardship of their travels and labours for the conversion of others their continual Fasting and frequent Prayer This Mark of the Churches Sanctity is set down in the Creed I believe the holy Catholick Church It is confirmed by Authority of Scripture S. Paul in the beginning of all his Epistles almost calling the Churches to which he writes holy as in that to the Romans Corinthians Ephesians Philippians and Colossians as S. Peter calls the Church generally the holy Nation it is also Visible to all as the goodness of a Tree is seen by the Fruit so the holiness of the Church by her Works Now let us see in what Church the greatest Lights of the Christian Religion have shined what Church hath most Monuments of Christian piety in what Church the Examples of Christ and his Apostles have been most narrowly followed Who have built most glorious and goodly Edifices of Churches to the honour and for the service of God who so many Monasteries to harbour his more devoted Servants who so many Hospitals for the poor who best Evidenced true Faith by good Works who have most put in practice all the hardest Maxims of the Gospel who taken greatest pains for the Salvation of Souls who show'n greatest love towards God and greatest charity to their neighbour whether Papists giving so liberally to God and his Church or Protestants taking back what they had given By their Fruits ye shall know them says our Saviour Christ our actions give testimony of our Faith The holy Fathers writing so many lives of our Saints witness enough their unparallel'd piety yea and God himself working so many Miracles by them How many Princes and Monarches in the Catholick Roman Church have laid down their Crowns at the foot of the Cross have quitted Kingdoms renounced pleasures forsaken the World taking themselves to a poor humble mortified and austere life how many thousands yea millions of Eremits Monks and other Religious persons men and women have totally consecrated their lives to the service of God No Age no Order no degree of Persons in this Church wanteth most Eminent men in Sanctity and Holiness Above 30. Popes have been all most glorious Martyrs besides many more Saints as our Gregories Leo's Celestines c. our holy Bishops are in number above the Stars of the firmament and our Priests and Religious like the Sand of the Sea S. Henry Emperour S. Lovis K. of France S. Edward King of England S. Malcolme and S. David Kings of Scotland with S. Helena Mother to Constantine the great S. Margaret S. Cunegund S. Elizabeth and many others all Kings and Queens have shown the Sanctity of our Monarchs See the holy Court and History of the Church for the holiness of so many amongst the Nobility and Gentry and the Lives of our Saints and Writings of the Fathers for the eminent virtues of innumerable â—f others both amongst the Gentry and Commons S. Chrysostome S. Ambrose S. Augustine S. Bernard and other holy Fathers having honoured their Memory and Festival days with most Eloquent Sermons in their praise as God by his Omnipotency and Power hath sealed their sanctity with undoubted Miracles both in their Lives and in their Deaths What can all the Sectaries which have ever been shown like to this or what can they say against it shall it be that all are not Saints even amongst our most Austere Religious men but neither were all Saints amongst the Apostles and the Primitive Church even in their time wanted not its scandals which showeth it was not only composed of the Elect the total separation of the good from the bad is not the work of men now but of the Angels at the last day till then as the Tares grow up in the best Fields of Corn so shall there be ever many wicked and scandalous in the true Church But out of it no Saints no safety for sinners no Sacraments that sanctifie no means of reconciliation with God I insist not here any further on the other Marks of the true Church as their Antiquity Universality Unity and the very name of Catholick which are to be found at length verified of the Roman Church in many whole and large Volumes No other Church having eâ—er been generally called by this name or known under it but all by their private Denominations as the Arians Pelagians Eutychians Macedonians c. in Old so the Lutherians and Calvinists now And if we call this Catholick or Universal Church also the Roman Church we speak with S. Paul calling the Catholick Faith spread through the whole world theirs No other Church having constantly appeared
visible in her Pastors and people by a continued succession from the Apostles which held S. Augustine in her Tenet me in Ecclesiâ says he Successie facerdotum I am holden in the Church by the succession of Priests then he reckons out the only high Priests and Bishops of Rome as the lawful Successors of S. Peter as in his 162. Epistle he says in the Roman Church has ever been the Authority of the Apostolick Sea In ecclesiâ Romanâ semper Apostolicae Cathedrae viguit authoritas No other having unity in Faith or the means to preserve it by General Councils which have all been holden in her No other and specially the Protestant Church having either Universality or Antiquity as is clear from their late Rise and little Extent Whatever Protestants and other Sectaries sophistically or Subtilly Object against all this is but weak and should stumble none many stronger Objections Atheists Infidels and Hereticks have made against God our Saviour Christ and the holy Scripture The first Principles most clear by the light of Nature suffer their Objections whence the Scepticks amongst Philosophers as the Socinians amongst Hereticks those admitting of nothing as unquestionably clear and these as infallibly true Wherefore to conclude all I have said the Catholick Roman Church being so gloriously marked so generally attested and so notoriously known to be the true Church established by Christ and his Apostles ever conspicuous and visible ever working Miracles converting Infidels making Saints ever holding Councils deciding controversies keeping unity opposing Hereticks and maintaining true Faith upon Solid and Infallible Grounds having so clear testimony from the Fathers from Scripture from God having charisma veritatis certum the Gift and Grace of certain and infallible Truth says S. Irenaeus origines firmas sure beginnings saith Tertullian Veritatem undequaque munitam verity solidly grounded and guarded says S. Epiphaniâ—s haeres 55. authoritatem stabilissimam most solid and constant Authority says S. Augustine Ep. â—8 may 〈◊〉 not say justly with our Countryman Richard of S. Victor l. 1. de Trinit c. 2. Si error est quem credimus à te decepti sumus If it be Error we do believe in this Church and upon her Authority it is thou O God who hath deceived us for with such signs this Doctrine is confirmed that it can be from no other but thee Let the impartial Reader here compare both Protestant Grounds and Doctrine with ours and see after all their Objections and Cavils what they bring for their new doubtful and inconstant Opinions against our old infallible and constant Faith what against our just claim our clear right our long and uninterrupted possession They come in with the Scripture in hand as the Fundamental Law against which there can be no prescription but what Scripture I pray you save that they have wrested from us olim possideo prior possideo says Tertullian it was first delivered to us we have it of old and we conserve it whole and intire But not so Protestants the many Books they reject shows it is but like a torn bond in their hands blotted in as many places as there be things put in of new or others rased out in their Bibles And then as they bring it it is altogether forceless and can make no security as a rent Charter without Subscription Witness or Seal Gods Subsciption would be seen and acknowledged if it were presented by them as at first by the Apostles with Supernatural 〈…〉 Motives witnesses if they could show it handed down from age to age by infallible Propounders his-Seal in Miracles But the Protestant Church granting her self to be fallible and being destitute both of infallible Motives of credibility and miracles can be no sure propounder of Gods Word neither can it as propounded by her be any sure ground to us Yea Examine well all the Principles Protestants build their Pretended Reformation upon and you shall find them all mearly Whimsecal Paradoxal and improbable For what Probability can there be 1. Of what they say against us that the Popish Church as they call it which they grant to be most antient should have continued so long and ever possessed the greatest part of the Christian World holding Councils condemning Heresies converting Infidels working Miracles and that the Protestant Church which they will have to be the Catholick or Universal all this time was no where to be found never once made mention of by any Author without Councils Statutes or Laws published to the World never converting one Kingdom opposing one Heresie having one Writer of note witnessing her Faith and Doctrine her doings or sufferings her Pastors or People That the antient Congregation diffused through the whole World should be Heretical and the new one in some few corners be Orthodox That corruption of Doctrine did enter so insensibly into the Roman Church that no Councils no Fathers did see or censure it who have observed many lesser things in private men that all the Fathers I have quoted in my 6. Section should have unanimously holden ever since the Apostles what Protestants call Popish Errors or that so many Learned men in the Roman Church who have dived into the very depth of most abstract Sciences could not see before Luther what in Scripture was clear 2. What probability for what they vent of their first Apostles and Reformers that God did send one Apostate Friar who in the Monastery as he confesseth lived so mortified chast and devote but quitting it is so hurried with his passions of Lust and stings of Conscience even for this his new Doctrine as may be seen in the Preface of his Works in Latine and his Table Conferences without any visible mark of his Mission to reform both his Word and Church in opposition to all her ordinary Pastors at that time that the Church before him I mean Luther as he himself glories should have been destitute of the true Letter and sense of Scripture of true Worship true form of Government c. that notwithstanding so many solemn promises made by God the Word should not depart out of the mouths of Pastors nor the true Church be so much as obscured yet that Christ should have suffered the light of the Gospel to be under a Bushel and the Cuhrch invisible for more then a thousand years That his Reformation should be the work of God and the world ever worse since it That Protestancy should bring back true Faith which is divided into so many Heresies and has caused so many Troubles Divisions and Schisms 3. What show of probability or solidity in Protestant grounds that the ground of Faith which they will have to be sole Scripture as every one reads and understands should support all the Heresies in the World That this Ground given us for keeping of Unity should make all our Divisions in Religion To deny the Authority and Tradition of the Church infallible and yet take Scripture on it that the whole Representative Church in a General Council is not infallible in its Decrees and yet private men reading Scripture are infallible in what they believe That what was at the Margent in their first Bibles would be now put in the Text That pure Scripture should be a cleer Ground for Protestancy and not one Point specifical or special to it to be found in Scripture in express words In fine that Protestants should have the pure Word and rely on the Originals their best Writers granting they have not found so much as an Authentick Copy any where If you will see what probability at last they have either for their Doctrine or Church consider amongst Protestants with the Author of a late Answer in Writ Faith without Unity a Body without united Members a Law without a Judg a Church without an Altar Religion without a Sacrifice Sacraments that do not sanctifie Divine Service without Religious Ceremonies Preachers without a call Doctrine without Infallibility Belief without a ground Commands impossible to be kept Exhortation to what is not in our power Reward without Merit Reprobation without demerit Sin punished where there is no free will new Apostles without Mission or Miracles Reformation without Authority the private Spirit against the whole Church new lights against old revealed Verities single mens Opinions against the common consent of the Fathers Scripture received or rejected upon the Catalogue of the Jews in a word wavering Pastors unsetled Government unstable Faith FINIS
every one Point of our Religion and Faith Now to prove what I have set down to be the only true solid and infallible Grounds of the true Christian and Catholick Faith 1. That Scripture is this Ground is granted by M. Menzeis and all Protestants so needs no proof as to them 2. That sole Scripture without the Declaration and Exposition of the Church as an infallible Propounder Expounder and Judge cannot be this Ground is proved at length in my fourth Section and presently you shall see it again 3 That Apostolical Traditions are necessarily joyned with Scripture Is 1. proved from clear Scriptures most expresly commanding us to receive them 2 Thes 2.13 Therefore brethren stand fast and hold the Traditions which ye have been taught whether by word or by Epistle 2 Thess 3.6 Now I command you brethren in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that ye withdraw your selves from every Brother that walketh disorderly and not after the Traditions which he received 1 Corinth 11.2 Remember me in all things and keep the Traditions as I delivered them to you 2. By the Authority of the Fathers of the first three ages quoted in my sixth Section with that of S. Chysostome S. Augustine and others above mentioned 3. From manifest and Demonstrative reason in some chief Points which all Christians believe without any express Scripture as I have instanced in persons in the Trinity Sacraments in the Church the keeping of Sunday c. and in many Heresies condemned by the Church Councils Fathers yea and Protestants themselves without any clear Scripture can be brought against them as S. Augustine avoucheth of the Errour of Donatists c. Rests then only to prove that the Church's Authority as an infallible Propounder is necessary to make all these Divine and infallible Truths in themselves contained either in Scripture or delivered by Apostolical Tradition both solid and infallible Grounds to us For this I presuppose 1. From the Apostle S. Paul Hebrews 11. That without Faith it is impossible to please God 2. From the same Apostle Ephes 4.5 That there is but one Faith one Baptism one Lord JESUS Christ 3. From him again Hebr. 10.23 That we must hold fast the profession of our Faith without wavering From which Texts importing the Necessity of Faith the Unity of Faith and the steadiness in believing required in Divine Faith it doth follow that some infallible means which all may make use of must be appointed by God to attain to this Faith so absolutely necessary to all For to say God hath commanded us and that under the pain of Eternal Damnation to believe undoubtedly and not furnished infallible means to attain to such belief were to accuse his Goodness Providence and Wisdom And this no Christian or rational man will deny so that all the Question that can be moved is about the infallible means to attain without doubt or wavering to Divine Faith which may perswade infallibly all sort of persons that such things are revealed by God removing all reasonable doubts that can arise either concerning Gods Revelation which is the formal object of Faith or the things he hath revealed which makes its material Object and this means I say again must not only be solid and infallible objectively and in it self as M. Menzeis will have the Protestant Religion and Grounds of it but also subjectively and to us it being the same thing as to make a perswasive motive not to appear and not to be according to that Maxime Idem est non esse non apparere Wherefore a ground however infallible in it self yet not appearing so to us and known to be such availeth nothing as to our belief The Mathematicians Demonstrate the Sun to be many times greater then the Earth and their Demonstration no doubt is both certain and evident in it self yet never shall perswade a Country clown that it is greater then his Cap for that no Demonstration of this is clear and certain to him Even so is it in the Ground of Faith it must be both solid and and infallible in it self and it must be known to be such by all who prudently rely upon it This presupposed to conclude all that has been said and fully prove both the Ground of Faith in the Catholick Roman Church solid as the Rock it is built on and the means for conveying it to us infallible I first show against M. Menzeis or rather for him and his conversion the necessity of an infallible Propounder of what â—e must undoubtedly believe for if this can be made good he engageth again to turn Papist 2. That the true Church is this infallible Propounder â— That the Catholick Roman Church is the only true Church 1. Then as to the necessity of an infallible Propounder If no men no Church be infallible in propounding then holy Scripture and consequently all that is contained in it is only delivered to us by fallible means and so no infallible certainty in Faith The consequence is clear for most infallible Truths may be changed altered corrupted and both fallibly and falsly propounded to us as the first and chief Mysteries of the Christian Religion by Hereticks have been 2. Faith comes of hearing says the Apostle then as there be infallible believers and hearers so must there be infallible Teachers for Hearing and Teaching are Correlatives 3. No other infallible means is or can be assigned by Protestants to Ignorants yea to all who understand not the Original Languages for what is contained in Scripture save only the Authority of their Pastors and Church but this Authority in propounding is not acknowledged infallible by them then no infallible means is left 4. There is no less necessity the Church be infallible in propounding then the Evangelists in penning and the Apostles in Preaching no disparity can be given Gods Word being equally infallible in it self before both as iâ— is now 5. Our Saviour Christ most expresly owns the necessity of an infallible propounder granting the Jews had not sinned in refusing to believe him if by his Works and Wonders he had not evidenced himself to be the Son of God and consequently infallible in his Doctrine 6. For this the gift of Miracles is given to the Apostles and left in the Church to show their infallible assistance in propounding If you answer that was necessary at first but not now because it is the same Doctrine you teach which the Apostles did propound infallibly You say nothing for that it is we doubt of or rather undoubtedly we deny that your Doctrine is the same You presently appeal to Scripture but in vain till first you answer to all that is objected in my fourth Section how ye know infallibly what ye call Scripture to be Gods Word then the Letter you read to be uncorrupted the sense you give to the genuine c. and to all the clear places of Scripture I have brought against most of your particular Tenets I do not here ask