Nay I may truly say that even we Roman Catholicks are much concerned in it and therefore I may be pardoned if I insist upon it because unless this question be resolved all our disputes with Protestants are likely to prove meer beating of the air contentions utterly wandring from the purpose Therefore I may be excused if I take the trouble upon me to resolve it and this I must do not upon Catholick grounds or notions of the phrase being members of a Church but only the notions which Protestants and generally all Sects divided from the Catholicks have entertained of that phrase For Catholicks do not esteem any one a member of the Roman Catholick Church that doth not profess all Doctrines without exception taught by it to be true and submits not to all the Lawes and Ordinances of it There is no distinction to be made as to this matter between Doctrines in themselves Fundamental or non-Fundamental between Lawes in themselves necessary or not because a refusal to accept any one of those Lawes or Doctrines does vertually destroy the Authority of the Church of how little concernment so ever such a Doctrine or Ordinance be in it self There may be differences and even dissentions among Catholicks about points of far greater moment in themselves and yet neither of the parties be in danger of being excluded from the Title of Catholiks or members of the Roman Catholick Church because the Churches Authority has not interposed it self in those disputes either way and therefore is untouched by either 11. But generally all Congregations divided from the Catholick have a quite different conceit of the Phrase being Members of a Church And this conceit is either general or more special According to the general conception of that phrase they acknowledge all to be members of their Church or rather co-members of the Church of Christ that do not teach doctrines or make ordinances excluding all right and interest in the common salvation and thus English protestants esteem themselves members of the Catholick Church and Lutherans of the Calvinists Church and you Presbyterians Independents c. of the English protestant Church because they do not deny a possibility of salvation to one another notwithstanding the differences among them 12. The second and more special notion of the phrase being Members of a Church entertained by all particular Congregations not Catholick does import an external conformity in all Doctrines without exception and all practises determined by each congregation respectively a renunciation of any excluding the refusers from an external communion and participation of the priviledges of that Congregation who notwithstanding may be acknowledged to be almost in as good a condition as to salvation as those are which exclude them from their external Communion Thus Lutherans are not Calvinists though they believe Calvinists may meet them in heaven because they will not admit them to their communion Thus you Presbyterians and Independents c. are no English protestants as long as you are Non-Conformists Let the differences between you be never so small as wearing a Surplice Kneeling at Communion c. if these Ceremonies be established by Lawes Ecclesiastical or Civil the non-submission to them is a manifest dividing from that Church and the less considerable the quarrels are the greater is the guilt of those that publickly dispute or write against that Church of which they desire to be thought members True it is you would seem to have some reason to complain against the English Church if for such trifling differencies only they should pronounce you excommunicated from Christs Mystical Body though they must give me leave to say That by not doing so but acknowledging your Congregations to be members of the Church they do manifestly conclude themselves guilty of Schisme by such a communication with you whom they cannot deny to be Schismaticks But it would be ridiculous in you to accuse them of Tyranny for excluding you from their External Communion when you your selves will not embrace it They do not pretend to an Authority to oblige you in conscience to believe that their Doctrines are true and their Ordinances just but they would be no Church they would renounce all Order if they did not maintain the laws and customes with so great deliberation and after so many disputes with you framed and renewed Where there is no Uniformity even in external matters there is no Church but a Babel If at Communion some should sit others stand others lye along as our Lord did and others kneel if some should be bare-headed others with their hats on would it looke like an assembly of men that served God Therefore complain not but rather thank God and them if they force not your consciences but permit you to abstain from things you do not like and to practice among your selves things you like better But to expect to be acknowledged members of a Church whilst you refuse to submit to the authority of that Church in things of themselves not evil much more whilst you write publickly against them is to desire them not to pretend to the name of a Church Therefore I conclude that you Mr. Bagshaw are no more a member of the English Church then I am and my proofe is this very Preface of your Book that I now write against Your saying that Episcopacy is lawful or your being ordained by Bishops signifies nothing as long as you disobey them you are none of their subjects 13. However I cannot blame you if in despight of English protestants themselves you will needs be called English protestants For if being as really you are no true members of the English Church you were treated as such that is excluded from a participation of the emoluments of it and obliged to a separated exercise of your ill-natur'd Religion two great incommodities would ensue to you and withal two as proportionably great benefits to them and the whole Nation 14. For First What pittiful Congregations would you in a short time appear to be At present your numbers especially in Cities and Towns are not unconsiderable Whereas if being no members of the English Church you were excluded from participating Tithes Benefices and other preferments not at all due to you and had no other maintenance but the Voluntary contributions of your own party you would quickly find that Party weary of you and become rather content to hear a sermon in the Church and wholesome prayers in a Surplice then to pay so much overplus for far worse stuffe in a parlour from a short cloak and no cassack 15. The Second Mortification thence flowing would be yet more intolerable Hitherto the facility of Bishops giving you leave to call your selves English protestants and members of their Church enables you to defile their Churches by doing your own businesse in them to their great prejudice and danger In their pulpits you cry down Ceremonies you preach against their government you sow sedition in the hearts of their flock
he punish them for no fault at all 4. But give me leave now Mr. Bagshaw to ask Who are you of what Sect Of what Church Common report gives you for a Presbyterian a man formerly very busie in the Intrigues of that Faction Yet some passages in your Preface and Epistle Dedicatory speak you an Independent in which you call your self an Assertor of Christian Liberty complaining of the keenness of Laws against such a disliker of Episcopal Authority as setled in England and one that refuses to admit the interpretation of Scripture from any Person or Church but only from your own private Reason Most likely it is you reserve in petto a Declaration whether party you mean to adhere to till you see how they are likely to thrive till then you would pass for an Amphibion And truly such a temper among you threatens much danger to the State When Pilate and Herod are made friends Christ must look to himself 5. If you be an Independent on all others will you not suffer others to be Independent likewise on you Or if you be a Presbyterian are you not content with enjoying hitherto the fruits of his Majesties most gracious promise from Breda None pretend more then you to tender consciences Have any call'd you in question for differences in Religion But this it seems will not serve your turn Nor an Independents turn Your tender conscience will not accept of the only condition that his Majesty annexes to this his Grace which is That you must not disturb the peace of the Kingdom This most just and necessary condition you here in your Preface renounce in which you again blow the Trumpet to sedition by telling the World that English Divines are bringing in Popery If that were true as long as it may be permitted to you to be Presbyterians or Independents among your selves what do you complain of Will you never leave this peevish this malicious envy not to content your selves with your own safety unless others be ruin'd 6. But it is intolerable that you should call your selves in your Preface We Protestants and talke of our Reformed Church of England or our Ancestors Our primitive protestancy c. Are you an English Protestant a member of the English Church established by Law and Canons Why then do you not submit peaceably to the government of your Bishops and indifferent Ceremonies Why do you reject the Book of Common Prayer enacted by supreme authority both Spiritual and Temporal to be the publick Liturgy of the protestancy of England Why do you find fault with the keenness of Laws against such Assertors of Christian Liberty The very titles you assume of Presbyterian or Independent declare that your formal essence consists in an opposition to English protestancy and prelacy You pilfer therefore the name of an English Protestant ut sportulam furunculus to use Tertullians phrase Or rather you are English protestants as Salvian says some in his time were Christians in opprobium contumeliam Christi 7. But you are wise in your generations you know you could do no mischief unless you took a vizard For if you had spoken in your Preface the true Language of a Sectary if directing your speech to English Protestants you had said I Mr. Edward Bagshaw Student of Christ-Church a very Presbyterian or Independent a professed Rebell against the English Church do out of my tender love and care of the welfare and promotion of the said Church give you O English Protestants warning to take heed of Popery for the bringing in of which among you Doctour Gunning and Mr. Thorndike and God knowes how many more are preparing way the Bishops are of intelligence with them and the State connives at them Therefore look to your selves All we can do is to blow the Trumpet and tell you once more how couragiously we will lead you to a thorough Reformation If you have neither zeal for God nor knowledge of your own strength 't is none of our fault Little do you know that we Presbyterians Independents Anabaptists Quakers e. are again become good friends and will joyne together to put down this Antichristian Hierarchy and when we are to divide their lands it will be time to try which of us can get most Now a beater Meane we have not for such a purpose then as formerly we did to cry out Beware of Popery Take heed of your Antichristian Clergy c. 8. If you had unwisely discovered your thoughts with such plainnesse your open dealing would have shewed some sincerity some appearance of the simplicity of the Dove but little of the subtle wisdom of the Serpent a quality much more for your purpose Notwithstanding your vizard being quite worne out your calling your selves English Protestants will not have the effect it had in your former happy dayes twenty years since Your Voice is too well known now not to be Jacobs There is scarce an English subject so ignorant or of so short a memory but can take notice that this was the Old Tune that sounded to a charge and invited them to kill one another for Charities sake and to suffer you know whom to murther the best King that ever reigned before him The difference between the two Brethren in iniquity being only this One did but fight against him and the Other killed him One bound his hand and the other cut off his head They will be so far from startling at the name of Popery out of your mouthes that perhaps they may begin to entertain a better opinion of a Religion so persecuted by you especially remembring that the Papists never separated their interests from the Kings and Theirs but unanimously ventured their lives and estates for them and this purely out of love Duty and conscience even when all they could expect by a victory was to remain still under the penalty of the Laws 9. Therefore a disguise is necessary for you whensoever you would speak except to your own Party in private It had been folly in extremity to say We Presbyterians Independents c. do give you English Protestants warning to beware of your Doctours that would bring in Popery It had been apparently to your own prejudice unless you had said We tell you this who are true Reformed English Protestants of the same Church with you your Pastours who have care of your souls whom you see no man hinders from preaching in your Pulpits and writing Books to Preach to those that cannot hear us in Pulpits If we were enemies would the Civill or Ecclesiastical State think you allow us such a liberty and maintain us at their charges to Preach and Print as we do 10. But I do assure you Mr. Bagshaw you are no English Protestant For what is it to be an English Protestant or a member of the English Church This is a question of greater moment then ordinarily is believed The very subsistence of Protestant Religion in England now depends upon the right stating of it
Calvinistical dregs and poison were instilled into it he might upon warrantable terms procure a Re-union with the Catholick Church But how should this Re-union be made By giving up to Roman Catholicks all the points of English Doctrins and Discipline No such matter But this he knew That in Books of Controversy among ten Points disputed there are not two wherein either of the Churches are interested and that most of the few real Substantial differences might be qualified by a moderate interpretation and condescendence 11. But whensoever such a business as this is either agitated or talked of you Mr. Bagshaw and your party smile and deride us poor Roman Catholicks as if we vainly framed to our selves great hopes and advantages by such good Christian designes or Writings of Protestants But truly you are deceived We indeed as we ought are glad purely for their sakes that either designe or write sincerely and ingenuously in matters of Religion But such designs and Writings are harmeful to us in our present condition and the reason is plain because they being the works of particular persons without any publick commission of persons that have no sufficient influence upon the whole English Church and State they produce little effect On the contrary they give only an opportunity to such malicious tongues and pens as Yours to Alarme the whole Kingdome both against them and us 12. But if it would please his sacred Majestie or the Parliament to allow a modest Conference not Dispute between a certain number of sober learned English Protestants and Catholicks by means of which a clear view might be given what the peculiar Doctrines by Authority established on both sides are and what place may be allowed for moderate Interpretations and Condescensions in all probability the success could not but be most happy the whole Kingdome yea all Christendom would stand in a maze to see what an inestimable blessing has been so long wanting to England and how little cause there was it should be refused How would the Civil and Ecclesiastical State of these nations be established and united in interests with all the Christian world almost How free should we all be from the least danger of being infected with the venom of Sectaries and how secure from their designes For then they would to all eyes appear in their distinct bodies it would be seen who how many and how qualified they are and permission being allowed them for a private liberty of exercising their Religions respectively any succeeding tumults would be both easily repressed and their cause appear inexcusable In a word Religion as it might by common Advice be setled in this Kingdom would deserve to be the envy and pattern to all the world besides being easily freed from many abuses much complained of but hard to be rectified in other Catholick Countries 13. And whence comes the obstruction to so inconceivable and universal a blessing as this but meerly from such English Protestants as You and Your partie are permitted to call your selves From You it proceeds that the Ecclesiasticks of this Kingdom have not hitherto so much as endeavoured to convert us Roman Catholicks to their Religion They have been unwilling to be informed what the true Differences between us and themselves are As if true Reformed Religion did formally consist in a blind heady and voluntary breach of Unity with all Churches before them They have condescended to admit conferences with Sects whose peculiar complexion consisting in an incompossibility with their government renders them irreconcileable unless they yield up both their Faith and Estates Yea for such Enemies satisfaction if any thing could satisfie them they have submitted to alterations even in their Church office and Discipline Lastly to content such English Protestants as You they have connived at your defiling altering and destroying that which heretofore was called and by Law still is truly the English Protestant Religion As will appear even by what You are suffered here to write against eminent persons of their Church 14. You proscribe and expose to publick hatred Doctour Gunning and Master Doctour Gunning Thorndike as persons that would seduce English subjects to Popery And what are your Proofs Forsooth Doctour Gunning has preached before the King and since printed and beyond your skill to disprove has demonstrated that the Lent fast is an Apostolical Institution Where lies the Popery It is You say against express scripture But is it therefore popery Do no Sects contradict express Scripture but Roman Catholicks Behold the natural Logick of a Fanatick However let this express scripture be produc'd Non liquet either in your Text or Margin Well at least say You it is against an Act of Parliament Let me ask You and Your fellowes a Question Will You be content to stand to all Acts of Parliament both as to their Prefaces and Clauses as Declarations of Faith and this under the penalty of being esteemed Papists Then I here denounce You a Papist For has not the whole Liturgy and Discipline of the English Church been ratified by Acts of parliament But what will You say to an Act of Parliament that has declared and like a Heretick burnt Your Covenant as a damned trayterous conspiracie Take heed therefore You be not found your self a papist As for the Lent fast You know that by the Lawes of the Kingdom Bishops are appointed the exacters and dispensers of the Observance of Lent which shewes it to be esteemed an Ecclesiastical observance as well as Civil So that I believe Dr. Gunning is in little danger from your charge 15. God send Mr. Thorndike as good a deliverance For his Charge consists M. Thorndike of more then one or two or three points of Accusation and every one of them seems to have an air of popery Let them be examined First say you he tells us in print that the Pope is not Antichrist Item That Papists are not Idolaters Item by consequence that all are Schismaticks who upon that score do refuse Communion with them These are terrible points against good Mr. Thorndike Yet alas not all his popery neither 16. A time was when such as You Mr. Bagshaw could both undoe and destroy English subjects meerly upon an accusation of Popery without proofe God be thanked it is otherwise now Therefore You ought at least to have produced some proofes that these Assertions are direct popery But not having done it let me advise you what kind of proofes will be expected You must know therefore that it is a Law of the English Church that whatsoever is found in the Antient Canons and is not expressly revoked by Ecclesiastical Authority in England is to be esteemed still in force And common sence and reason will tell you that before you can by such allegations as these prove any one to have deserted the English Churches doctrine and be turned a papist you must produce some Authentick Declaration of this Church by which the Pope is decided to be Antichrist and
you instill discontent against the State In a word you do all the mischief you can both to it and them And all this while you enjoy their Livings they maintain you to destroy them Whereas if at the charges of your own patrons only you were to preach and pray in private parlours your peculiar Gifts in both would quickly vanish for there would be no use of rayling and blowing up discontented passions in an Auditory where most of your hearers can raile as well as your selves and are perhaps already more discontented You would lose the pleasure of gaining Proselytes to your Faction because none will hear you that are in danger of being seduced On the contrary to your hearts torment you would see even City-Churches every day more and more filled with your dearest friends nay your own Stomacks would come down and for preferment yea even bread you would quickly digest both Crosse and Surplice 16. Before I leave this Argument I would fain with your permission propose a Question to You though I fear the very proposal will anger You and I do scarce hope for an Answer though if you had a mind to it nothing is more easie to be answered and in case you reply to this paper remember I summon You not to forget this question 17. Suppose then His Majesty and the Parliament should by Law confirme to You the gratious promise from Breda That upon giving security not to enter into practises to disturbe the publick peace You should not be called in question for matters of opinion but should have a moderate liberty to exercise your Religion at home or even in Churches to your own party only with prohibition to all good subjects to come to your sermons would you be content with such an indulgence and mercie from the State Would You upon these termes engage to discontinue your sermons and prayers top-ful of the fel draconum 18. Till You answer this Question I will tell You the Opinion of many that believe they know Your temper well enough They do assure themselves you would not You I mean Presbyterians and Independents For as for your natural brood and subdivided Sects of Anabaptists Quakers c. I conceive they are more reasonable in this matter of Liberty of conscience They would be content to serve God after their fashion in their own Chambers and would maintain their own Ministers and poor too paying withall the dues which by Law belong to Parishes Whereas there is but too good ground to believe that there is nothing more apprehended by You Presbyterians and Independents then such an Indulgence because that would disunite from you all other Sects and make them sure to the State against You so that You and your Friends would stand miserably and contemptibly alone 19. True it is you would fain seem somwhat inclined to a Conformity of your fashion and for that end You demand Conferences and Treaties with the Bishops c. But withall You require a condescendence from them in such things as both honour and truth forbid a compliance in and which cannot be granted without a secret acknowledgment that they have been faulty hitherto in oppressing You with undue burdens And as for other trifling scruples of yours You are more troubled when they yield any thing then when they refuse all However by such Treaties You gain this that among Vulgar minds You may sometimes pass for zealous persons in all things pertaining to God and withall no enemies to peace And besides You may have occasion thereby to complain yet more against Bishops for not submitting to your conditions so easie and reasonable For alas You desire ease only in indifferent trifling matters whereas in all necessary Ordinances for Gods glory You are ready to comply What a great matter say You is a Surplice or refusing a Papisâ—ical Cross For peace sake You will even digest Episcopacy Let there be Bishops but not jure Divino or if jure Divino not such as Law hath established Let them be countermanded each Bishop by a dozen Presbyters and subject to their Classes and you will not stand upon the Title 20. I dare say Mr. Bagshaw You are very angrie now to be told thus publickly that you are more afraid of Liberty of Conscience then of persecution unless You might have leave to interpret Liberty of conscience to be a free permission to do mischief not to serve God And much more to be told You are no English protestant But You must pardon us that cannot but think so till You tell the World what You mean by an English protestant and what that English protestancy is which You professe and maintaine and have been so busie Twenty Years almost to the ruine of the Kingdome to set up against Prelacy II. That Mr. Bagshaw 's insttilling supicions into the Peoples minds as if English Divines c. had a designe to introduce Popery again is a mere acting over the late Rebellion 1. IT is now time to take into consideration the zeal Mr. Bagshaw that You as a good English Protestant have shew'd against those that have a liking to the pompe of popery and are so hardy as to make some attempts to bring it back into your Church In this zeal You spare neither Gentry including I suppose the Nobility nor Clergy 2. First as touching the Gentry You tell the Kingdom that too many of our unwary Preface Gentry begin already to be taken with the outward pompe of popery Who are these many too many They are Gentlemen The Gentry indeed are not so apt to be wrought upon by You as Inferiour Tradesmen and day-laborours and therfore it is much for your purpose that the general rout should have a suspicion of them Well though there be many of them yet You name none whereas there are but two of the Clergy and You name them both There is some Mystery in this Would You not have it believed but dare not speak out that these too many Gentlemen are some members of the present Parliament that you covertly desire the Kingdome may suspect and have an ill opinion of because they will not in compliance with your slovenly devotion suffer you to burne Surplices and Copes or abrogate decent Ceremonies but much more because several Honourable persons among them have expressed some pity to Roman Catholicks and an inclination to requite their fidelity with some small ease from the heavy burdens laid on them by the Lawes It is a greater torment to You to see their Fidelity rewarded then their Religion not persecuted But it is intolerable to you that no good Christian now can be unsatisfied in the way that Roman Catholicks have taken to appear fit objects of mercy since they have both publickly in the house of Lords Vivâ voce and by many Treatises and Protestations in writing given such security of their unalterable Loyalty and Obedience to his Majestie and the State as not any Christian can possibly give greater
the Papists Idolaters But that is impossible for you to do You will perhaps to little purpose cite the names of certain Calvinistical Writers that as you hypocritically called themselves English Protestants but withall you will take notice that all very Protestants have laughed at them some have been angry and demonstrated the direct Negative If you were a live member of the English Church you would know that the English Church would be no Church if the Pope were Antichrist and the Papists Idolaters For would you acknowledg that to be a Church that enjoyes her whole Authority and Jurisdiction from Antichrist and Idolaters Is she not rather a member and abortive of Antichrist This is plain reason Mr. Bagshaw and consequently the inference is undeniable That all are schismaticks who upon that score do refuse communion with the Roman Church 17. You proceed against Mr. Thorndike He insinuates say you that we may lawfully pray for the Dead Your proof I told you that this is against Protestancy must be to shew where the English Church has repealed the Antient Canons commanding Prayer for the Dead That will be a hard task On the contrary You your selves object against the Common-Prayer-Book that there is a clause in it that not only insinuates it to be lawful but actually exercises prayer for the dead And you know that within the time of the four first General Counsels received in England above twelve hundred years ago your Progenitors were by the Universal Church declared Hereticks for denying it Yea moreover that there was never extant any Liturgy or Missal in the Church of Christ Eastern or Western wherein there were not prayers for the dead 18. You go on Mr. Thorndike against the Doctrine of the Church of England saies That we may expect some benefit by the prayers of souls departed I suppose holy soules are meant Where does the Church of England contradict this nay more except you will acknowledg your self to be a Socinian and deny that the souls of dead persons have any subsistence at all with perception and use of rational faculties you your self will not be so shameless as to deny what you here lay to Mr. Thorndikes charge For I know none that call themselves Christians except Socinians but acknowledg that the glorified Saints do pray at least in general for the Church Militant Now if they all do pray for us all will you not permit us to expect some benefit by their prayers Must we maintain that all their prayers are to no purpose O but you infer That this in time may easily be improved to our praying unto them As for this inference which is not your defendants but only your own give me leave to tell you That if you believe that the Saints pray for the Church in general it would be no hard matter by one Syllogisme to oblige you to acknowledge that we may pray to God that he would hear and grant their prayers making them beneficial to us And now search all the Solemn Offices and Missals of the Roman Church mark the prayers that occurrs every Saints Feast you will find no other formes but such as that The prayer is alwayes directed to God alone immediately and he is desired to grant us such and such blessings by the intercession of such Saints And if in less solemne Devotions as Litanies Antiphons c. we say Sancte Maria Sancte Michael Sancte Petre ora pro nobis we are by the Church obliged to no other meaning then as before and we imitate express Scripture Laudate Deum omnes Angeli ejus omnes Sancti ejus c. Cardinal Perron will assure you that our prayers to Saints is only prier pour prier a devout wishing that they would pray for us And truly for my part I do heartily wish all the Saints in heaven to intercede in their prayers with God that he would vouchsafe to give you and us all a sincere love both to truth and peace 19. I have reserved your most criminal charge till the last which you thus express If it be not the intent of some to returne into Aegypt I cannot imagine Preface what means the crying up of that great Diana of the Papists the Churches authority and making that the sole interpreter of Scripture What Religion can you possibly be of and talk thus You in your own person standing alone are not a Church If you be but one member of a Church what ever it be as long as you are so you are subject to it it must have Authority over you the Spirit of one Prophet must be subject to an assembly of Prophets are you an Independent much freedom is implyed in that Title yet I believe your Lay Church will think it has authority enough to oblige you not to interpret Scripture for the advantage of that court of Inquisition the Classes of the Presbytery Are you a Presbyterian Your private reason shall be yoaked and chained with bonds strong enough and heavy enough to keep it from stirring to the prejudice of the Holy brethren and Sisters But you will needs call your self an English Protestant and yet will dare to revile all the Authority in your Church boldly protesting that it shall not interpret Scripture for you Your private reason shall over-master it Unless it confesse it self to be no Church that is to have no Authority to oblige its members to receive the sence of scripture from her you will be revenged by bellowing aloud This is the crying up of the great Diana of the Papists Truly I must needs say the Church of England is a very patient Church if she suffer you to speak this Bedlam language and injoy a Benefice too 20. But you do well though you mean very ill when you call this the Diana of the Papists Since you imply that a true obliging Authority if any where can only be found in the Catholick Church As for Sects that have no Succession of Ordination for such to assume Authority and Jurisdiction in matters of Religion is ridiculous even to common sence for it implies that to be men which have an ordinary use of reason is a sufficient qualification to become Ecclesiastical Teachers and Governours The Clergy of England challenging a lawful Ordination have some pretension to a real Authority and if they could justify themselves free from the guilt of Schisme even we Roman Catholicks could not deny but their Authority would oblige in conscience and under the penaltie of damnation because then it would be an Authority participating that of the whole Catholick Church and acting in union with it But of this somewhat more in the last part of this Discourse 21. I do apprehend Mr. Bagshaw that if you make any reply to this you will instead of speaking to the purpose endeavour to aggravate the cause of Doctour Gunning and Mr. Thorndike by saying at adventure that there is a secret intelligence between the Papists and them and that they do
mutually maintain one anothers quarrells On the other side I am not without suspicion that some even of my own belief and Church will think that it did not become a Catholike to busy himself with justifying the writings of protestants especially when he endeavours to shew that such Writers are no Catholicks though the particular points taught by them be real Catholick verities 22. Now to both these I must say that I never had the happiness to know or see either Doctour Gunning or Mr. Thorndike never was there any message or intelligence between us But my only Motive to write as I have done was to comply with that precept of God Pacem veritatem diligite Love peace and Truth As a true faithful English subject I could not see so professed a disturber of peace without reproving him As a catholick I could never hope what I am bound to desire and aim at that both truth and peace would find admittance into England by any endeavours either of Protestants or Catholicks till it was apparent what the true grounds of our separation are and this never will be known till other Sects be made to blush when they impudently and perniciously both to the Church and State call themselves English protestants and pretend to be judges of what is to be esteemed in the English Church Catholick Doctrine 23. Therefore for a conclusion of this argument touching your charge against Dr. Gunning and Mr. Thorndike I will once more protest that unless either the Civil or Ecclesiastical Authority do in time provide against such writers as you the whole Kingdom in a very short space will be in iminent danger to become a mere Babel For if it shall be permitted to such men to defame any English Doctour or Writer that shall not conspire in all the furious positions of Presbyterians Independents c. against the Catholick Church there will not be a Bishop or sober Divine in England that will not be at your mercy both for his fame and subsistence nay his life also when you can either raise a tumult or which is more dreadful a new Tribunal of Justice III. That Mr. Bagshaws attempt to render only the Roman Catholick Subjects in an incapacity of Toleration is in it self most groundless and in his mouth most ridiculously malicious 1. WEE poor Roman Catholicks could not but be strangely surprised to see such a Protestant of the Church of England as you Mr. Bagshaw are to become our Advocat and to beg our pardon saying How ill an opinion soever I have both of the Papists Religion Preface and of the unchristian waies they take to propagate it yet far be it from me to wish that amongst us they may suffer the same hard measure which I know by their Principles they are alwaies ready to inflict For so much do I desire their conversion which can never be sincere unless it be voluntary and unconstrained and so little fear their power of seducing since their greatest strength lies in the ignorance of their followers rather then in the cunning of their guides that I heartily wish all penal Lawes against them were utterly taken away For I never yet saw any Argument that could clearly evince why any sort of men who would profess a peaceable subjection unto the Civil Government might not in all their Civil Rights be protected by it 2. What a kind wish is here and a reason for it truly unanswerable Indeed here is Charity a point too high to be believed sincere Therefore to the end your Charity may be rational do not deprecate the inflicting of all punishment upon any if you can indeed prove that by the Principles of their Religion they are obliged to inflict the like punishment on others As for our Principles we protest unto you they are very innocent in this point Laws indeed have oft been made in Catholick Countries very severe against those that the Church calls Hereticks But they are none of the Churches laws they were not enacted by Ecclesiasticks but by Civil Governours only You know that by the Canons of the Church ever in force the Clergy under penalty of Irregularity are forbidden to have any hand either by Counsel or otherwise in blood And whatsoever Laws have been or shall be made by Catholick Civil Governours especially such as reach to blood if the Motive of them hath been pure Opinions of the Understanding not prejudicial to Government or any thing except a prudent mean to prevent Sedition or Rebellions justly apprehended we assure you they are not made by the Principles of Catholick Religion but against them 3. You will object the Spanish Inquisition But withall be pleased to consider that almost all the Catholick Kingdoms in Europe besides do abhorr the cruelty of that Inquisition and have often declared they will suffer the utmost extremities rather than admit it 4. This Charity of yours therefore was too excessive to be long-liv'd or deserving to be esteem'd sincere for you presently repent and revoke it whilst immediatly after you add I must confess there are two things which do much difference the case of the Papists from that of any other Religious Sect Preface this day in the World and which renders the Toleration of them very unsafe if not unwarrantable 5. How was it possible for one that wrote this cruel passage not presently to blot out what with the same ink he had written immediatly before The King and State are little beholding to you when you wish that may be done which is both very unsafe and unwarrantable and besides that may be done for Roman Catholicks which you say are the only Religous Sect in the World which it is both very unsafe and unwarrantable to tolerate you except not even the Fifth-Monarchists whose Religion forbids subjection to all Civil Governours whatsoever and commands by Fire and Sword to erect their new spiritual Kingdom of Christ which is to last a thousand years Let but Papists be excluded and all the monsters of Egypt are welcom to Mr. Bagshaw Yet he must know that if there had been no Papists in the World no other Sect among us had ever heard of Christ Behold the mercies of a Presbyterian or Independent I know not whether how cruel they are 6. And all this he writes to prevent the benignity of Protestants which he suspects may in some measure be extended as well to Roman Catholicks that suffered with them as to his own party that still grieve they had not swallowed up both He forgets what a converted criminal as if it were some honest Anabaptist or Quaker one that had been but now is no longer a murderer and seditious person said to his obdurat companion Dost thou not fear God since thou art in the same condemnation And we indeed justly But these Men what have they done But we should not much apprehend that his perswasion should prevail with persons that sure should now know us both were it not that
as for treason against any English subject meerly for having a scruple in an Oath to bring forth the word Heretical he being at the same time ready to acknowledge as due to the King all the authority and right that the Judge himself does when he condemns him for a traytour 16. Therefore Mr. Bagshaw if You would perswade the State that it cannot confide in Catholicks You must study some other motives For we heartily renounce the acknowledgment of any power that can dispence with us or release us of our Engagements to his Majesty They are none of our teachers that hold such opinions And what Bellarmine saies That the sole cause why the Primitive Christians were content to suffer without resistance was their want of power we abhor as a speech blasphemous to the Holy Martyrs and scandalous to the Church Yet let me tell You this was a Doctrine that Bellarmine might have learnt from Your Fore-fathers the antient Puritans for out of them it is that Archbishop Bancroft quotes such unchristian sayings and words as this for one Paul commanding us to be subject and obedient to Bancroft in Dangerous Positions p. 17 Princes did write this in the infancie of the Church there were but few Christians then and not many of them rich or of ability so as they were not for such a purpose As if a man should write to such Christians as are under the Turk in substance poor in courage feeble in strength unarm'd in number few and generally subject to all kind of injuries would he not write as Paul did So as the Apostle did respect the men he wrote unto and his words are not to be extended to the body or people of a Common wealth or whole City For imagine that Paul were now alive c. and that there were such Kings as would have their becks stand for Laws as cared neither for God nor man c. what would he write of such to the Church Surely except he would dessent from himself he would say that he accounteth not such for Magistrates c he would leave them to their subjects to be punished c. 17. What think You of this Mr. Bagshaw Yet I will not accuse You of holding the same Nay more though I can demonstrate tuat there 's not a Country or City in Christendom into which Your Sect or Religion ever entred by any other waies but sedition and Rebellion witness France Geneva Holland several States in Germany Switzerland Scotland and for almost twenty Years space England yet if You would renounce that abominable principle That it is lawful to defend Religion by arms against a lawful Prince I should have a scruple to say that a State cannot safely or warrantably confide in you as You have most unjustly said against Roman Catholicks taking advantage from one or two Writers generally disallowed by us though You can not name any one City or Country in Christendom into which Catholick Religion ever entred but by suffering 18. Do not therefore endeavour to make all Catholicks answerable for the wicked assertions of a few Authors when you know they have been condemned by whole Kingdoms You have eyes sharp enough to spy even in the Catholick Church our sort of Presbyterians and Independents Yea even Quakers too If any such be in England the State may easily convert them However God be thanked their teachings are out of fashion and I would to God they displeased You as much as they do us You know we can lay to your charge ten seditious Authours for one and which is mainly indeed only considerable You are not able to produce one of your party that has condemned their horribly Rebellious principles And as to the point of defending Religion by Arms if by a Reply You will summon me to produce the particular passages I will at large informe You that during the reign of the last King of France there was by his order proposed to an Assembly of Catholick Bishops this Question or problem If it were supposed that the King of France became Mahumetan and by his power endeavoured to force his subjects to that infidelity Whether they might lawfully according to the principles of Christianity by arms against their Soveraign resist such an attempt of his To which Question the unanimous answer of the Bishops was That such a resistance would be unlawful since Christian Religion allowed no other way of maintaining the faith against lawful Soveraigns but prayers tears and suffering When will England be so happy as to see such a resolution to proceed from a Synod of Presbyterians c. It would be some comfort to see but one Mr. Bagshaw publish a little book to that purpose Never certainly was there a more seasonable time then now That would be a powerful expedient to imprint the Act of Oblivion in the very hearts of all English subjects And till some such thing be done Quis Caelum terris non misceat to read from such an one as Mr. Bagshaw's pen a Lecture of Fidelity to the King and a warning given to the State who the only persons are not fit to be confided in 19. You add Mr. Bagshaw But could our Papists in England give sufficient evidence of their hearty disowning such an irreligious Tenet yet there is another thing Preface c. What say You Sir Could the Papists Why have they not Is their an ear in England that can perceive sence and has not heard what a profession was made by the Catholick Lords in the House of Peers Is there an eye that can read and has not seen their printed Declarations in which that irreligious Tenet was confidently clearly and heartily Disavowed They have do and will protest that if they be not ready to give all possible security of disavowing that and all other Principles prejudicial to Authority Justice and Peace it would neither be prudence in his Majesty nor a just care of his Kingdomes welfare to tolerate them among his Subjects What would you require more 20. If You think or however if You be resolved to say though You do not think so that we lye when we both make such protestations and withall offer to confirme them by Oathes You will put us into some puzzle how to give You satisfaction Yet in order thereto even to You that perhaps are unwilling to be satisfied we tell You this You cannot but know that Catholick Religion utterly forbids all lying and above all Perjury If therefore You will judge that neither the Protestations nor Oaths of Catholicks are to be credited you will condemn the State of want of prudence in contriving Oathes for tryals of their Fidelity and moreover you must needs esteem us the most impertident Lyars in the World that is such as only lye when it is for our disadvantage If we durst lye we would much rather chuse to lye by taking the Oathes in the formes as they are expressed then make voluntary false protestations of the same
preserved the Antient faith and Discipline we shall necessarily be obliged to a Communion with that Church because a separation from it will be a manifest Apostacy and Schism from the most certainly one true Catholick Church and consequently from Christ himself 22. Now that the present Roman Church does at this day profess the very same Doctrines and is governed by the same Laws that were in force in St. Gregories dayes will as seems to us evidently appear both from his Writings the Ecelesiastical Writers since and the Antient English Councils as likewise by the acknowledgment of several learned Protestants To this purpose Doctor Humphreys Humphr Jesuitis in par 2. rat 5. p. 5. 627. writes thus In Ecclesiam verò quid invexerunt Gregorius Augustinus Onus ceraemoniarum c. that is But now what have Gregory and Austin brought into the Church A burden of Ceremonies c. the Archiepiscopal Pall to be used at Solemn Mass Purgatory c. the Oblation of the Holy Host and prayers for the Dead c. Relicks c. Transubstantiation c. new Consecrations of Churches c. To these particulars Carion a Chronologist Carion Chron. l. 4. p. 567. adds the publick Rite of Invocation of Saints a false perswasion concerning a Monastical profession works devised without any precept of God satisfactions vowes c. And whereas saith he Gregory himself did tragically declaim and profess his abhorring the Title of Universal Bishop yet in reality he declared that himself did vehemently desire the thing signified by that Title since he took upon him a commanding power over other Churches To these may be added the Centuriators of Magdeburg Bale c. who mention these and other particular Doctrines as Novelties introduced by St. Gregory 23. Hence if our Adversaries speak truth it will evidently follow that since there are now differences between the Eastern and Western Churches all the alterations and innovations have been made by the Greek Church only 24. Do you not now see Mr Bagshaw what Religion that is the professours whereof you as far as your vote extends expose to the Butchery whence is apparent that if you had been a leader of a party able to execute your cruel intentions in S. Gregories dayes you would like a very Antichrist have laid wast the whole Church of Christ and murdred all that were called by his name There wants only this to crown your zeal that you should cry out Their blood be upon us and upon our children Thus would you have treated S. Augustin and his fellow Monks you I say that the less Charity you have esteem your selves the more perfect Christians and Saints you would have condemn'd to Gallowses quartering of members and burning of bowels those innocent persons that exposed themselves to all incommodities for the salvation of our Country when as our Pagan Ancestors though Slaves of Devils yet treated them with all humanity Take heed they do not rise in judgment against you I am sure in that great Judgment you shall not rise to condemn them for this sin 1. THus Sir I have performed as much as I promised in the beginning and truly I promised more then your Book deserved In which I found so very small a proportion of Reason employed that I may perhaps incur censure for mispending time about a Discourse that would not indanger the misleading of any I must therefore plainly tell the Reader that it was only your passion Your cruelly malicious suggestions that I intended to oppose That is your proper Engin to do mischief with to prevent which a Christian compassion to thousands of innocent peaceable souls whose destruction your passion designes does require all honest mens endeavours and care You acknowledge enlightned reason for your only Principle but I find that which You call by such a name to be nothing else but a restless fancy swelling with self opinion and inflamed with almost all sorts of inordinate passions sharpned against all moderate persons both Protestants and Catholicks that is against all that have any sence of Duty to the King or love of peace among Christians 2. Now as among Protestants You thought fit to single out only two Doctour Gunning and Mr. Thorndike through whose sides You would wound all that are not as furious against peace as your self So among Catholicks likewise there are two my Lord the Earle of Earle of Bristow Fiat Lux Bristow and the Authour of Fiat Lux against whom you have thrust forth a forked sting armed with poyson enough but wanting strength to make that poyson enter I hope his Lordship will pardon a stranger yet an admirer of his most eminent abilities and vertues for taking notice without order from him of your malicious reflexions upon him which might be prejudicial to his Honour were it not that it comes from a person that I am assured he will never dignify with answering 3. You reckon his Lordship in the Catalogue of those who have shewed the vanity and uselessness of Allegations Preface of Authorities of Fathers and Councils c. And because say you it is possible that the example of that Honourable Person may be urged against me since his present practise doth contradict his former principles I will only add this that since his book is not yet answered by himself I hope he thinks it unanswerable and will not long continue in communion with that Church whose foundations he hath so well overthrown An Admirable passage this is fit for no pen but Mr. Bagshaws 4. That his Lordship has not yet publish'd an Answer to a Writing of his own sufficiently confuted by his practise I should rather think you might have imputed to such as your self These are not times for any of his Lordships present perswasion in matters of Religion to multiply unnecessary controversies of that Nature And however your self and your party afford such as his Lordship is business enough to exercise all their abilities prudence and skill in opposing your secret workings and open calumnies by demonstrating that a change in his perswasion about points of faith doth make no change at all in his Fidelity And thus much his Lordship in the name of all Catholicks to your great grief has performed with that sincerity candour and energy that I am confident there is not a Protestant that shall read your infamous aspersions cast upon Catholick Religion touching the matter of Loyalty but will look upon them as the last effects of the desperate rage of one that takes pleasure in mere calumniating without any expectation to be believ'd 5. And truly Sir if you had taken to task the making the World believe that in your Sect Christian Charity is esteemed a mortal sin you could not have better effected your design then by saying as you have done I hope his Lordship thinks his Book unanswerable c. For shame change this phrase I hope c. It would have been an impudence not to