eyes to see eares to heare and handes to feele we can not choose but beholde it in the face 434. a. Ye had neede looke well to your selfe remember nowe among other things master Horne c. Take heede master Horne Thinke vpon this at your good laysure remember also howe ye stande c. VVherein I pray you resteth a great part of your newe clergie B. But in Butchers C. Cookes Catchpoles and Coblers D. Diers Daubers F. Fellons Fishermen G. Gunners H. Harpers I. Inkeepers M. Merchants and Mariners N. Netmakers P. Potters Poticaries and Porters of Belingsgate R. Ruffling Ruffians S. Sadlers Sheremen and Shepeheardes T. Tanners Tylers Tinkers Trumpetters VV. VVeauers VVherrymen 481. a. b. This and such other is his Rhetorik eyther flourishing with 〈◊〉 wordes running on a letter and nowe and then sifting the whole crosse rowe for them Or else doubling and trâ—…bling of 〈◊〉 phrases or multiplying of wordes with which euery sentence is in a maner farced For 〈◊〉 is not commonly content to expresse his minde with one worde be it 〈◊〉 so plaine except he vnderproppâ—… it with an other at the least as thus miserable and wretched peruerting and deprauing The full illustration and opening of whole and entyre matter Euidently and openly disciphered and disclosed espied and vnbuckled bewrayed and detected opened illustred and confirmed Which as it is most vaine babling so is it altogither vnworthy the noting except briefly to shew the reader what kinde of vanitie he hath puft vp this his Counterblast withall His sixt common place of impertinent discourses His ovvne obiection of the same LIke a wanton Spaniell hee runneth from his game at riot 243. Master Horne sayth he seeketh out bye matters leauing the principall as the Donatistes did 321. a. That thou mayest the better sée howe he obserueth this and kéepeth himselfe to his matter or no first beholde the issue and state of the question betwéene the Bishop and M. Fëckhenham which is this VVhether any Prince haue taken on them any such supreme gouernment as dothe the Q. Maiestie in ecclesiasticall causes Which issue to be resolued in Master Feckenham desireth the proufe by any of these foure wayes eyther by the Scriptures or by the Doctors or by the Councels or by the continuall practise in any one part of Christendome To the which issue by all these foure said wayes the Bishop directeth all his prooues and in this first booke he prooueth it by two of them the Scriptures and the Doctors Now whether Master Stapleton kéepe himself to this issue or to the proufes thereof or to the Bishops answere without playing the wanton Spaniell and the part of the Donâ—… iudge when thou hast read this his sixt common place And withall thou shalt sée what good plentie of bye matters he had in store when substantiall matter â—…ayled him In his first Preface taking on him to gather abriefe summe of such things as he thought specially he might deface the Bishop withall throughout all his Preface he neuer setteth 〈◊〉 the issue in controuersie but quarelleth about other things with the Bishops rashnesse follie Grammer Logike Rhetorike Arithmetike And where at the length he speaketh of king Henrie 1. his dealings in punishing Priestes whoredome to shewe â—…ow of purpose he séeketh out his quarelles he slinketh from the Princes dealing wherewith he is vrged and sayth this is not the thing we now seeke for but to know what kinde of whoredome it was that the Priestes shoulde be punished for Pag. 12. And Pag. 18. letting go the matter that he is in hande withall he discourseth agaynst the Bishop of Sarum about Sabellicus titles In the 2. Preface where he bindeth himselfe 〈◊〉 than in the. 1. to declare the whole pith of the question and course of the Bishops and his owne â—…ke he digresseth into a common quarell about diuersitie of fects and heresies which he ascribeth to the Protestants he câ—…eth into Greece Affrica Bohemia Hungarie Lifelande pag. 30 and so commeth home to Englande digressing from the question and issue to English bookes to forbidding of the Bible to be read to the iudgemeÌ„t of Lambert to burning to religious houses Pag. 31. to vowes to repealing lawes to setting forth a newe religion to mariage of Priestes to consecrating â–ª Bishops to the reall presence Pag. 32. Then runneth he to search out discorde in the Protestants and quarelling about wordes in the act and iniunction he maketh an exhortation to returne to the Romaine Church 33. 34. 35. In the aunswere to the Bishops Preface the first whole diuision fo 1. 2. a. b. A loâ—…g impertinent discourse to molliâ—…e master Feckenhams pretence for setting out his booke A number of bie matters falsely charging the Bishop with diuerse impertinent slaunders 2. b. 3. a. Pretending to direct the reader to the question here in trouersie for the nonce he setteth vp a number of newe markes that master Feckenham and the Bishop medleth not withall 3. b. Fol. 4. a. He quarelleth at the Bishop of Sarum for the 600. yeares and the Bishop of Winchester for alleaging testimonies of later yeares calling this vneuen dealing of the Protestants He quarelleth about precise wordes He maketh a new chalenge to the Bishop he chargeth the Bishop of a late bragge none of all these things belonging any whit to the matter 4. b. 5. a. In his first booke A long outrode whether the Bishop were well called by M. Feck the Lorde Bishop of VVinchester or no. 7. a. b. Whether he be Bishop or prelate of the Garter 7. b. succession of Bishops 8. a â–ª against the mariage of Bishops of flesh on Frydayes of a Pigge turned into a Pike That the Protestants be Heretikes euen by the Apologie of England 8. b. An inuectiue against the actes of Parliament of altering religion agaynst the will of the whole clergie that the Bishop can not defende himselfe to bee a Bishop by any lawe of the Realme About the reall presence transubstantiation and adoration 9. a. Deniall of free will the necessitie of baptising children vnlawfull mariage 9. b. A long inuectiue agaynst the disputation at VVestminster Anno. reginae 1. with a number of friuolous excuses whie they shranke from it 12. a. b. 13. a. A long digression almost of 13. leaues togither nothing to the question but discoursing into all countreys Boheme Germanie Denmarke Swethland Brabant Hollande Flaunders Lukelande Englande Fraunce Scotlande Saxonie Hessia VVestphalia besides many townes and Cities chiefly about the businesse in the lowe Countreys to deface the Gospell by the tumults there raysed as the worlde well séeth onely by the practises of the Papists Fol. 33. b. Hauing mentioned the plague he falleth into wicked ghessing that the procedings in that Parliament were the cause of the plague that reigned at London and once againe a â—…ing at the Bishops that they be no Church nor yet Parliament Bishops A long impertinent bibble babble about master Feckenhams ioly disputations begon at London and ended at
ill matter Ye meane well I dare say for ye good man when ye talke of reuolting from the religion by him receyued at baptisme and the faith of Christes catholike churche meaning your popishe religion and churche and manie times ye wishe the Bishop to acknowledge it but he and all godly wise men doo sée howe you are deceyued in your well meaning by euill and false assumptions takyng that for Christs catholik church which is not nor the popish faith is that faith which we professed at baptisme but a degenerate faith Nor Master Feckenham was baptized if he were rightly baptized in the name of the Pope or the Popes religion Which if you doe meane your selfe meane not so well to him as you pretende Now for the vntruth of the Bishops well meaning to M. Feckenham be the cause as it be may this way or that howe dare you so boldely anouch that it is incredible the B. shoulde meane him well Beware M. St. ye presume not to sit in Gods seate the hart of man which for meaning is only knowne to God and the meaner Quiâ—… enim hominum scit quae sunt hominis nisi spirituâ—… hominis qui in eo est For what man knoweth the things that are of man but the sprite of man that is within him A certaine friend of yours standing by and hearing what I had declared then to the honorable in your commendation did shortly after reporte the same vnto you The. 11. vntruth There was no such reporte made Any aâ—…nswere were néedlesse but that the facing of this man is shamelesse that denieth so boldely he knoweth not what The right honorables God be praysed be yet aliue to whom the Bishop reported it the stander by at the same time as those right honorables can tell was a Gentleman named M. White of Southwicke whome since God hath called away which openly to M. Feckenham in the hearing of the Bishop and all other present declared that he hearde the Bishop speake to the honourable in his comendation Al this notwithstanding 〈◊〉 in M. StapletoÌ„ like another suborned Stilpho that neyther was there nor as he confesseth in his Prâ—…face Pag. 24. had any skil of the priuate doingâ—… betwéenâ—… them and yet he steppeth in as boldely as though he had benâ—… the chiefe 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 denieth that there waâ—… any such reporte at all But to vse his owne termes what is impudencie if this be not Doubting that youâ—… confederats should vnderstand of your reâ—…olte 12. which they euer feared hauing experience of your shrinking from them at 13. Westminster in the conference there The. 12. vntruth slaunderous The. 13. vntruth notoriously slaunderous Here in your score are notched vp two seuerall vntruths in your answere bothe these two by contraction are but one vntruth â–ª and thus ye can not kéepe your tale Yea But this saye you incomparably passeth and farre excelleth all your foresayd vntruthes and so belike it maye goe well for two it selfe But wherefore is this so passing an vntruthe The bishop sayd his confederates feared his noueltie hauing experience of his shrinking from them To this you replie and say In what one point of religion did he shrinke from his companie and in the ende ye come in asking further VVhat shrinking in religion call ye this as though the Bishop had charged him with shrinking from them in religion Which if M. Feck had done then would they no longer haue feared it being alreadie done but they were afterward afrayd of his shrinking in religion séeing his shrinking from them in that so péeuishly they stacke to their obstinate refusal wherin your self coÌ„fesse they refused to obey the Queenes highnesse coÌ„mandement And the lesse matter ye wold make it the lesse ought they to haue shewed such disobedience had they ben good subiects as they preteÌ„d or had they in déed stuck to their cause But they shronke froÌ„ their cause which of likelyhood they suspected Howbeit M. Feck seing not so much in it as they he as you say for his parte thought it not good to disobey the Queenes highnesse commandement and so therin shranke from them This Master Staple your self confesse and so or euer ye wist ye clere the Bishop of this incomparable vntruth Ye semed in our conference before had resolued The. 14. vntruth that M. Feck should giue vp his treatise in writing after he was resolued by M Horne And in his counterblast How vnlikely a tale is this that Maister Feckenham should either bee resolued by Maister Horne or beeing resolued shoulde then giue vp his matter in writing for none other cause than M. Horne reporteth I durst make any indifferent man iudge yea a number of M. Hornes owne sect there is no apparance there is no colour of this matter and therfore I wil be so bold as to adde this to his other vntruthâ—… This vntruth springeth of two causes the one the vnlikelyhod of the matter the other M. StapletoÌ„s boldnes for he wil be so bold as to score it vp But I pray you M. Sta. is euery vnlikelyhood an vntruth with you ye are ouer bold that dare so affirme Were ye present there Did ye see the dealing can ye tel the coÌ„trary No â–ª How dare ye then say it â–ª write print it to all the world that it is an vntruth Is this sufâ—… proof to say it is vnlikly to be Ergo it is not to presse this vnlikelyhood the sorer there is no apparance say you there is no color in this matter In déed here ye say truer thaÌ„ ye are aware there is no colour nor apparance â–ª but the very truth it selfe in that the B. sayd neither yet an vnlikely truâ—…h therin Nay say you I dare make any indifferent man iudge yea a number of M. Hornes owne sect that it is not lykely that M. Feck should be resolued or should giue vp his treatise in writing â–ª after he was resolued by M. Horne What man if you remember you but of youre own of your maister D. Hardings inconstancie and other a number euen of youre owne sect ere this ye may find likelyhod inough of M. FeckenhaÌ„s resolution yea euen in himself in K. Henries dayes and therfore bewarâ—… whom ye make iudge in the matter of this vnlikelyhood But setting like or vnlyke apart may a man be so bold as to say that your selfe so boldly charging the B. with an vnlikely vntruth make a manifest vntruthe for the B. said not aâ—… you tel the tale that M. Feck was resolued or that he wrote his treatise after he was resolued but that he seemed resolued these were the bishops words And so he likewise said before that he semed resolued in a maner fâ—…lly satisfied that he semed openly to haue little matter to stand in but that he was resolued that is to say fully persuaded the B. might haue some cause for all his hope to dout knowing that
most herein ye would haue him either beleue first ground him self on your false principles or else would ye sâ—…e beshrew him for traueling one whit therin and fal as fast to besech him to let the matter alone except he wil before hand on your word beleue that this supreme gouernmeÌ„t belongeth to your pope And hauing so gotteÌ„ his grauÌ„t on this which is the coÌ„trouersie it selfe theÌ„ ye besech the gentle reader most diligently to labor trauell in this controuersie But the reader may sée with no great trauell for y matter that as ye â—…etract your duty froÌ„ your prince so ye ascribe a great deale to much to your pope For where to win the reader to your partie ye say that all controuersies in effect depend vpon this Ergo admit this admit al deny this deny al the antecedent in déed in your popish church is true Where they make al articles of religioÌ„ to depend vpoÌ„ him But in christs church it is true of none other but of christ alone Upon whoÌ„ being the corner sâ—…one rock al the building is fouÌ„ded ariseth in whoÌ„ being the only chiefe vniuersal hâ—…d all the members haue lyfe all controuersies in effect depeÌ„d Admit his supreme authoritie admit all his religion Denie his supreme authoritie denie all his religion But it is not so of any limited and secondarie head or supreme gouernour in any particuler Churche of Christians That all articles or any article of fayth dependes on the Princes gouernement but the Princes gouernemeÌ„t depends on them to ouersee them duetifully set foorth And when the Reader séeth this that the Prince claymeth not an absolute Supreme gouernement and that it is your Pope onely that taketh this absolute Supromacie on him and you that giue it him then I trust the reader will not be so wonne with your fayre words which make fooles fayne as he wil abhorre your slaunders on your Soueraigne and detest the open iniurie ye offer to Chryst the onely head to make all Articles depende on your Popes supreme authoritie Nowe whereas for this ambitiouse clayme of your Pope ye alleage here nothing to fortifie the same ye thinke ye shall winne it yet at the least this way if with dispitefull raylings ye may beforehande discredite vs to the Reader and so winne credite to your selfe thereby Ye argue thus The Protestantes whom odieusly and falsly ye deuide into many sects are at mutuall and mortall enemitie among them selues but al conspire agaynst the primacie of the Pope Ergo a good resolution once had in this poynt stayeth and setleth the conscience as vvith a sure and strong anker from the insurgies and tempests of all sects and schismes This argument might as well make for Mahomets religion or any other neuer so false as for the Popes to reason from the aduersaries diuision among them selues or agréement of them selues agaynst his religion to a truthe and perfection in his false religion And thoughe the argument faile alike bothe in the Pope and the Turke yet it holdeth in Christes primacie and onely in him agaynst Pope Turke Sectarie or any other deuided from him Chiefly agaynst the Popish church wherin are diuers infinite sects errours and al at mutuall and mortall enmitie amongst them selues and yet all conspire with the Pope agaynst Christ and his truth Ergo a good resolution once had in Christ his truth stayeth and setleth the conscience as with a sure and strong anker from the insurgies and tempests of all sects and schismes This argument thus framed had bene better and truer and not to make the Popes supremacie or the exalting of any creature in heauen or earth to be the anker holde and stay of our consciences besides Christ and his truthe Which sithence all Papistes do by this your confession they can haue no good resolution resoluing them selues amisse leaning to a broken Réede Where they say Pax pax peace peace non est pax impijs dicit dominus there is no peace of conscience at all nor any sure ankerholde to stay vnto Maledictus qui confidit in boinine poâ—…it carnem brachium suum And therefore if Protestants yea al Sectaries or Schismatikes though they can not agrée amongst them selues yet if they all hate thys moste Antichristian doctrine to grounde their faythe on man no meruayle though they hate it it is so wicked and detestable that euen good and badde and all abhorre it After he hath taken this pro confesso that the anker holde of conscience consisteth in setling him selfe on the Popes primacie he reasoneth on the contrarie effecte Contrary vvise they that be once circumuented and decea ued in this Article are carryed and tossed vvith the raging vvaues and flouds of euery errour and heresie vvithoute stay or setling euen in their ovvne errours True in déede Master Stapleton if ye had rightly shewed withall what it had bene to be circumuented and deceyued in this Article otherwyse ye doe but lyke an vnskilfull and harebrayned Pilote herein that to auoyde the rocke thinketh him selfe sure and safe when he hath caste hys anker on the quickesandes or rather euen in the goulfes mouthe and so I warrant him also as you saye he shall not néede long to feare to bée caryed and tosted wyth the insurgies and tempestes of the ragyng waues and flouddes but soone be swalowed vp and drowned in them But Master Stapleton not considering or not mynding to warne the reader of this to much trusting to a false Pilote but to terrify him further wyth feare of forsakyng this Popishe ankerholde and to confirme thys argument of the contrarie effecte reasoneth from the instancies of dyuers ensamples And first of the Gréeke Churche arguing thus The Grecians forsooke the vnitie of the romaine Church Ergo they fell after to be Arrians Macedonians Nestorians Eutichians c. and in conclusion fell into the Turkishe captiuitie This argument besides other faultes hath chiefly two hoamely and foule fallations that make it vâ—…cious The one à secundum quid ad simpliciter from the Churche of Rome limitted to that tyme that it was not stayned with those errours to the Churche of Rome simplie that since that time hath falne it selfe partlye into some of those errours partly into other as great and many worse The seconde fallacion is à non causa vt causa for theyr fall was into those heresies not bicause they acknowledged not the Bishop of Rome to be their supreme heade for therein they had played like the Flownder that lept out of the frying panne into the fire but bicause they forsooke and peruerted the worde of God as the Papists since haue done and their â—…ares itched and aâ—…iended to the inuentions doctrines errors of men to lying masters as the papists haue done also This was the proper cause of their fall into these errors and of the Papists fal into the like or greater And where M. St. ioyneth to his
markes and haue al mens eyes fixed theron your selfe not fixing your owne eyes on the very marke set vp betwéene them graunt that the B. hitte at the full that which he shot vnto Which graunted the arrow so reboundeth on you your cause that it quite ouerturneth both But M. St. hauing now espied that he hath graunted that which he sawe aâ—…nswereth sufficiently M. Feck issue and also confoundeth these new and false principles and yet he could not for shame playnly recaÌ„t nor reuoke his grauÌ„t he first begiuneth â–ª to pinch nip it saying it is true princes may haue dealing in eccl. matters but in some meaning by whiche some meaning what he meaneth as he dare not here for shame vtter so he quickly slippeth froÌ„ it telling vs it reacheth not home and that the B. doth but face and bragge thinking euery man borroweth of his coÌ„mon places And so to knit vp with his own words is much labour vainly and idelly employed with â—…edious and infinite talke and babling al from the purpose and out of the matter which ought specially to haue bene iustified not in stead thereof to detayne and delude the reader with these newe sixe markes and false presupposed principles The third part of this diuision is his quarelling with the B. for saying he made proofe euen by many Papists them selues Which part he distributeth into thrée members the first he calleth in the margent the vneuen dealing of the Protestants the secoÌ„d a chalenge to M. Horne and the third M. Hornes tale incredible First for the vneuen dealing of the Protestants Now is it worthy saith M. St. to see the ioly pollicie of this man and how euen and corrâ—…spondent it is to his fellow Protestants M. Iewell restrayneth the Catholikes to sixe hundreth yeares as it were by an extraordinarie and nevv found prescription of his owne embarring al latter profes yet he him selfe in the meane tyme runneth at large almoste one thousande yeares later shrynking hether and thither taking tagge and ragge Hereâ—…ike and Catholike for the fortifying of his false assertions When ye haue proued the B. of SaruÌ„ his assertions false then cal them so for before while ye complayne of the Protestantes vneuen dealing ye shal shew most vneuen dealing in suche a Papist as your selfe As with all you shew your ioly Logike that you crake so much vpon how euen correspondent it is to reason M. â—…uel restrayneth the Papists to 600. yeres to proue their articles by Ergo he can not confute their articles with their own coÌ„fessions that are of later yeres As for the tag and rag and mag too that he hath improued them withall be euen them selues their owne ragged rabbines and tagged scholemen be they heretikes or be they catholikes But be they as ye please to call them dothe the limitation of your proues restrayne his improues What if he improued your articles euen by your own mouthes who are now oxtant might it be lawfull for you to câ—…yne yet more newe articles and to alledge proues for them of your own time bicause he confuteth them by proues of your owne tyme this belike were euen dealing with you to let you haue so large scope to proue articles as the improuer may haue to confute theÌ„ But as it is good reason ye should for the profe of your articles be content for shame with so large a scope of 600. yeres nexte after Chrisâ—…e so haue ye accepted thys limitation already and M. Harding your standard bearer your selfe with many of your partners haue vndertaken to bring foorth your proues according to that restraynt of 600. yeres How ye haue done it Scripture as they say maketh mention let the readers iudge Belike your selues doubt of those proues and therfore groyne now at length to be so restrayned for your proues and fayne woulde haue a larger scope saying this is an extraordinarie and nevve founde prescription of his ovvne embarring all later prooues it goeth harde with you he like that ye whine now so fast at that which ye receiued so lustily to soeme to and craked vpon before and now that ye can not proue any one of your articles in all that terme of 600. yeares â–ª ye coÌ„playne of vneuen dealing But what if ye had bene restrayned to the time of the primitine church ye would then haue made an outcrie and yet it had bene requisite that for articles of faith religion ye should not refuse to be restrayned euen to Chryst his Apostles And least ye should thinke we deals vneuenly with you wheras you for to proue those articles of your religion haue the scope of 600. yeres next after christ limit you vs for any one articls of our fayth or religion euen to the time of Christ and his Apostles abode on earth So farre within 600. that we wil proue it euen within sixe score yea within sixe yeres if ye wil. So little haue ye any iust cause to complayne of vneuen dealing â–ª But let goe this your fonde quarell agaynst the B. of Sarum and preserute your argument from him to the B. of Winchester your aduersarie This vvise trade say you this man keepeth also and to resolue M. Feck and settle his conscience he specially staieth him selfe vpon Platina Nauclerus Vâ—…spergensis Sabellicus Aeneas pius Volateranus Fabian PolychronicoÌ„ Petrus Bertradus BeÌ„no the cardinal â–ª DuraÌ„dus â–ª Paulus Emilius Martinus Penitentiarius Polid. Ver. and such like as he him selfe declareth other where and in this place also confesseth Now albeit the catholiks refuse no catholik writer nor in this matter haue cause so to do yet in a matter of such importaÌ„ce vvhich besides the losse of all temporall reliefe and besides bodily death importeth also euerlasting damnation to the catholikes if the case so stande as M. Horne and his fellowes beare vs in hand reason vvould he should haue fetched the substance of his profes much hier yea within the. 600. yeres whervnto they strayne and binde vs The effect of al this is that as the B. of Sa. hath done the B. of Wint â–ª must do the like or else they disagrée and is contriued in this argumeÌ„t If the B. of Saâ—… would haue the papists to proue those their articles vvithin the boundes of 600. yeres then should the B. of Winchester in this so 〈◊〉 an Article fetche the substance of his proufes vvithin those boundes But the B. of Winchester doth not this but to resolue M. Feckenâ—…am and setle his conscience stayeth him selt vpon Platina Nauclerus Abbas Ursperg Sabellicâ—… c. all popish and late writers Ergo Their doings are not euen and correspondent To this I answere no parte of this argument is true neither Maâ—…or Minor nor Conclusion The sequence of the Maâ—…or followeth not bicause the B â–ª of Sarum and the B. of Winchesters cause and occasion were nothing a like The Minor being of two partes both are false For first he fetcheth the
thought not so and yet bothe of them politike stout and prosperous Princes But whereto doth M. St. thus colourably so highly extoll the vertuous quiet prosperouse most honorable and most victorious estate of those noble wise stoute and coragious princes that he saith neuer heretofore dreamed of this kinde of supremacie can he dreame out this so drylie against his most gratious soueraigne the Q. Maiestie now that not only of right claymeth but most godly directeth this supremacie to blemish her highnesse with her noble auncesters and thinketh he this his byiouse nippe could not easily be espied Yes M. Stapleton it is easie to sée your good harte and what opinion ye haue of her highnesse But albeit comparisons be odious chiefly of the liuing with the dead De quibus nil nisi bonum whom we ought to speake reuerently vpon yet notwithstanding thus muche may I say without derogating from them or â—…lattrie of her for he flattreth not that saith that which eche true man findeth true her highnesse in no point that you recken is inferiour to any her royall progenitors in many farre greater pointes that ye recken not doth farre surmount them all Which I speake not to boast of but that God whose giftes they are make her thankful for them vs thankful for her And therefore go the matter by wisedome fortitude quietnes vertue honorable prosperous and victorious raigne her Maiestie that claymeth this title her Brother and Father before her also haue as good plea for them as any other princes of England can haue that neuer claymed the same And therefore leaue this crake M. St. of vpbrayding to her highnesse the good giftes of her predecessours for thankes be to God that hath giueÌ„ hir all the same or more hir grace hath had hitherto a most quiet prosperous and victoriouse raigne and yet hath claymed and enioyed this supreme gouernment withall yea the one hath strengthned the other And God for his mercy coÌ„tinue prosper hir maiestie long therein And in déede this is that ye whine at that God stil so prospereth the successe of his Gospell by her 〈◊〉 so God hath promised Q â—…cunque honori ficauerit me â–ª glorificabo eum thus he glorified Salomon when he sought the wisedome truth of God before the riches might of worldly Princes so hath God blessed her Highnesse aboue many Christian princes for that she directeth all her gouernment to the setting forth of his glory Peccator videbit irascetur all you Popish enimies beholding and gnashing your téeth thereat But who would thinke M. Stapl. were one or the Papists any they haue of him so swéete and fine a proctor with so fayre wordes to couer so foule disobedience And albeit saith he the Catholikes wishe to the Q. Maiestie as quiet as prosperous as loÌ„g â–ª as honorable an Empire to the glory of God as euer had Prince in the world are as wel affected to her highnes as euer were good subiectes to their noble Princes aforesaide Ye recken not vp so many times as as as as as as as as he were a very asse that would beleue you for all your goodly wishes and painted affections such faire wordes may make fooles faine and beleue that all is golde that glistreth But what in harte you wishe and in déede you attempt her grace hath tried throughly all men well perceyue But God sendeth a curst cow short hornes God sende her Maiestie long safetie froÌ„ the fained teares of such wel wishing Crocodiles And theÌ„ with the grace of God she shall do wel inough maugre all hollow harted Papists But go to now tell on M. Stap. if ye wish her highnes thus wel as ye wold séeme why refuse ye your duetiful obedieÌ„ce Albeit say you the catholikes wishe thus yet can they not finde in their harts to take the Othe not for any sinister affectioÌ„ c. but onely for conscience sake grouÌ„ded vpon the Canons and lawes of the holy church and the continuall practise of all christian and Catholike realmes finally vpon holy Scripture namely that saying of S. Peter O portet obedire Deo magis quà m hominibus God must be obeyed more than men Is not here a fayre cloke to couer the Papists disobedieÌ„ce to their Prince withall all whose open stubbornesie and priuie practises against their Prince countrie are not forsooth of any sinister affection but euen for conscience sake But what manner a conscience is this that ye do it for M. Stapl. is it not such an other conscience as Sir Thomas More telleth the Wolfe had to whom when the Foxe his ghostly father enioyned him penance for his rauening that he should neuer after deuoure any thing that he thought in his conscience was aboue the value of sixe pence the penitent Wolfe afterward seing a fat cow with her calfe feeding in a medow being hungrie and gréedie of his pray yet durst he not breake his ghostly fathers rule till he had examined in his conscience the price of them On my conscience ê™ the Wolfe this cowe is but worth a groate and then of conscience can her Calie be hardly worth halfe as muche Now if you M. Stapl. and your fellowes haue this woluish conscience to deuoure the shéepe of Christ the cow and calfe and all to burne the people of God to persecute his truth to betray your countrie to strangers to disobey your naturall Prince and so can set your conscience that all is done for conscience then as many haue to little consciences so you haue a great deale to much And such large consciences God defend vs froÌ„ But to shew that your conscience is no better I pray ye whereon is it grounded Grounded vpon the Canons lawes of the holy Church and the coÌ„tinual practise of all Christian and catholike realmes Do ye ground your consciences vpon the Canons lawes of the church that is vpoÌ„ the practise of man this is but a sandie grouÌ„d M. St. for a christian coÌ„science in a matter of religioÌ„ that ye say is the waightiest of all points in controuersie the fountaine of al other to be builded founded vpon And yet the one of these groundes is a manifest lying crake of the continuall practise of all Christen realmes which ye haue not yet proued crake of it and grounde your conscience on it when ye haue proued it for before ye do but set your conscience on the tenterhookes to presume of that ye haue not proued The other is euen the wolues conscience vp and downe that grounded his conscience of his owne gréedie desire so you grounde your conscience on the canons and lawes of the holy Church And what is the holy Church with you on your conscience Forsooth on our conscience holy Church is our selues that be the Bishops Monkes Friers and priestes We say you are the holy Churche and our owne lavves and canons are the lawes and canons
And herein hath the Quéenes highnes followed as ye say both her Fathers and Brothers faith also But ye wring al to that faith wherein he was before beguiled as though she should follow him in that he was deceiued not wherein he founde out forsoke the deceyuers that you with your painted wordes might likewise deceyue her Highnes now as they deceâ—…ued her Maiest father then But sée how God turned their deceyt agaynst them selues That where your Pope to flatter K. Henrie withall ascribed to him this title as it were the prophecie of another Caiphas Defender of the faith the King espying the falshood of the Pope became the very defender of the true faith in déede abolishing the Pope the very impugner peruerâ—…er therof and so as you say truer than ye wist M. Stap. atchieued to him and his and transported as by hereditarie succession the worthy title and stile yet remaining in her Highnesse of the defendour of the faith Neither as you faintly say this title onely remayneth in her Highnes but the thing that the title doth entende her highnesse is in very déede not in a â—…aked name the defender thereof And hath defended her subiects not from foreyne power of straungers onely brought in by the Papistes and from all bodily iniurie and oppression of Popish firebrandes or any other tirannie but defendeth euen our faith from all errours heresies superstitions and Idolatries And this it is for a Prince to be a defender of the faith in déede which argueth a plaine supremacie Now after M. Stapl. hath thus flattred and on his knees humbled him selfe to obtayne a placard of their disobedience vp he starteth once againe and geueth another fling at vs to reuerse this crime of disobedience on vs thinking so to excuse this disobedience of the Papistes thereby And first he setteth on those whome he calleth round cap Ministers howbeit if he remembred that within this hundreth yeres and vpward the popish priestes themselues did weare round cappes he would not be so hastie to giue that nick name He asketh who are those that haue preached with a chaine of golde about their neckes in steade of a tippet Assoyle your question your selfe M. Stapl. I know no such protestant What slaunderous reporte you haue heard of any singuler person I know not no such order is alowed Although it be common among your popish Cardinals Bishops Abbottes Deanes Canons and other beyonde the Seas so to ruffle as ye speake not onely with a chayne of golde but with hatte and feather cappe and agglets rapier and cloke hawke and houndes ruffians fooles wayting on them and oftentimes in complete harneys on a great courser or on a palfrey with a courtisane behinde them thus go the chiefest of your fleshly spiritualtie belike they learned it of that royster Pope Iohn 13. howbeit no Pope doeth amende this disorder Upbrayd not therefore such petit and perticular things to vs which is so great and so common a fault with you But Master Stapleton will go more certainely to worke and charge the Protestantes ex scripto wyth their owne writings VVho are those I pray you sayth he that write sint sanè ipsi Magictratuâ—… membra paries ciues ecclesiâ—…dei imo vt ex toto corde sint omnes precari decet Flagrent quoque ipsi zelo pietatis sed non sint capita Ecclesiâ—… quia ipsis non competit iste 〈◊〉 Let the Magistrates also be members and partes and citizens of the Church of God yea and that they maye bee so it behoueth vs all wyth all our heart to praye Let them bee feruent in the godly zeale of Religion but they may not be heades of the Churche in no case for thys supremacie doth not appertaine to them These are no Papists I trow M. Horne but your owne dere brethren of Magdeburge in their new storie ecclesiasticall by the which they would haue all the worlde directed Yea in that storie wherof one percell Illiricus and his fellowes haue dedicated to the Queenes maiestie that beare the worlde in hande they are the true and zelous schollers of Luther Thus triumpheth M. Stapleton against the wryters of the storie of Magdeburge The effect of his argument is this These wryters do say that Princes may not be heades of the Church Ergâ—… no prince ouer all Ecclesiasticall persons causes in his owne dominions may be supreme gouernour Howe euill this argument followeth is easie to perceyue and the better in behâ—…lding howe impudently master Stapleton wresteth these wryters But he forceth not thereof bicause they be his aduersaries For that which they write not simplie agaynst the supremacie of princes in Ecclesiasticall causes but agaynst suche supremacie of princes as the Pope vsurped that wresteth he as spoken agaynst such supreme gouernment as the Quéenes maiestie claymeth and vseth The writers hereof hauing set forth two â—…nsamples of that age the one of a godly princes gouernmet by Constantinus Pogonotus the other of a wicked tyrant by â—…eraclius to declare what kinde of supremacie they disalow Thâ—…y she we that this is the scope of the matter iste est scopuâ—…res ê™ magistratibuâ—… politicis non sit licitum cudere formaâ—… religionuÌ„ in perniciem veritatis ita vel coÌ„cilietur veritaâ—… meÌ„daâ—…ium vel vtraque simul sopiant id quod tandem â—…um habet exitum vt regnent errores veritas crucifigatur sepeliatur This is the â—…cope of the matter that it is not lawfull for politike magistrates to coyne formes of religion to the destruction of the truth so that thereby truth and falsehoode should be reconciled togither or both of them togither quayled VVhich at the length commeth to this ende that errors raigne the truth is crucified buried And so followeth the sentence that M. St. citeth let the magistrates also be mebers c. but let them not be heades of the Church Whereby appeareth plainly what maner of heades they meane And this they do not once nor twise setting forth the doings of the wicked â—…yrant Heraclius for ensample that was altogither led by affection and not indifferent to heare â—…ither party nor called in counsell lerned and faithfull men nor called any synode to trie the matter nor serched the truth diligently but being puffed vppe with pride and deuising oâ—…ely with a flattring Monke that after set vp the false fayth of Mahomet determineth in a corner of a moste weightie controuersie and afterwardes will haue the matter neuer called into question This Emperour they call Architectum religionis and demaund what man well in his wittes woulde alowe such attempts processe and executions concluding it is not lawfull form as religionum conflare c. To make newe formes of religions and obtrude them to the Church without all kind of godly honest modest and comely gainsaying refuting therof All this and much more say they of that kinde of supreme gouernement in
other I build this argument euen according to your owne definition of a supreme gouernour and master Feckenhams offer A supreme gouernour is he say you that hath the chiefe gouernment of the thing gouerned in those actions that belong to the ende wherevnto the gouernor tendeth But the actions of Ecclesiasticall persons ouer whome the Prince is supreme gouernour as master Feckenham hath graunted doe belong properly to the ende wherevnto the Prince tendeth to wete not onelye to mainteyne the common peace and tranquilitie but also to sée that Gods religion and seruice be purely and syncerely had and kept amongst the subiects Ergo In these actions the prince is supreme gouernour and so by consequence in all causes and actions ecclesiasticall To proue the minor first that all the trauayle of all godly Preachers in the worlde is to this ende is playne and manifest That this is also the chiefe ende of the Princes gouernement both your selfe master Stapleten at length haue confessed centrarie to your former heathen limitation and also the verye heathen and prophane wryters themselues so well as Christian haue acknowledged Wherein master Stapleton both sheweth his great follie in reasoning that heathen Princes did not regarde religion Ergo they ought not especially to haue regarded it and also bewrayed his ignorance in the antecedent of this his vaine reason for the heathen though they erred in mistaking religion yet they knewe and taught that it was an especiall care and ende of the Princes gouernment I speake not howe Plato in his bookes de rep legib reckoneth the care of Religion to be a chiefe ende of theyr authoritie And yet will I note two sentences out of Aristotle whome to denie your Sorbonistes make more than petit heresie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sayth he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the other Cityes the sacryfices are left onely to the Kinges And agayne 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For the Capitaine was â—…oth King and Iudge and Lorde of the deuine matters And to proue this by the storyes of heathen Princes Numa Pompilius hath his chiefest commendation not so muche for making ciuill lawes and pollicies to the Romaynes as for his lawes about theyr religion theyr Priestes theyr Nunnes theyr Sacrifices The Magistrates of Athens did sitte in iudgement and condemned Socrates when Anitus and Melitus accused him for false religion The Romaine Princes them selues woulde labour principally for the office of the chiefe Bishoppe whiche terme Pontifex Maximâ—… the Bishoppe of Rome nowe chalengeth Tiberius promoted to the Senate of Rome as to those that had the care and gouernement of theyr religion that Christ might be accounted among theyr Gods. Yea in the Scripture is declared that Nabuchaâ—…nezar the King of Babylon an Heathen Prince and vtterly destitute of the truthe before God gaue him some sparâ—…kes thereof yet made hée a lawe of worshipping hys owne Image And King Darius of Persia made a decrée that none shoulde worship God in certayne dayes In all which matters although these heathen Princes crred from the truth yet they thought that religion which they mistooke for truth to be a principall part belonging to their gouernment Although therefore master Stapleton ye doe great iniurie to Christian Princes to make their state common with the Paganes yet do you more iniurie herein to them than the heathen did to their heathen princes Was it lawfull for them in their heathen gouernment to haue so especiall a care aboute their heathen and false religion and is it not lawfull for godly Christian Princes to haue the like or more aboute Chrystes true Religion Is the ende of their gouernment common to both alyke as ye say and yet the Heathens stretched further than doeth the Christian Princes Iohannes de Parisus affirmeth that this is a false supposition of yours Master Stapleton Quod potest as regalâ—… c. That the kingly power is corporall and not spirituall That the Kingly power hath the cure of the bodie and and not of the soules Sithe it was ordeyned to the common profite of the Citizens not euery profite but that profite which is to liue according to vertue Herevpon sayth the Philosopher in the Ethikes that the intention of the lawmaker is to make men good and to enduce them to vertue And also in the Politykes he sayth that as the soule is better than the bodie so a lawmaker is better than a Physition bicause the lawmaker hath care for the soules and a Physition for the bodie Nowe as the Philosophers ascribed this ende in the Heathens false religion in vertues of lyfe and care of the soule to the gouernement of Heathen Princes Doth not Saint Paule shewe as muche and more trowe you for the ende of Christian Princes gouernement in these thinges Ut 〈◊〉 tranquillam vitam degamus in omni pietate honestate That we may leade sayth he a quiet and peaceable life in al godlinesse and honestie Was this no further master Stapleton than safetie quietnesse worldly wealth aboundance and prosperous maintenance Did the great Constantine stretche the ende of his gouernment no further when he sayde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 debere ante omnta scopum esse â—…udicaus c. I iudged that this oughte before all other thinges to be my scope that among the most holye multitudes of the Catholike Churche one fayth and syncere charitie and godlinesse agreeing togither towardes almightie God might be conserued Did the whole assemblye of Byshoppes in the first generall Councell at Constantinople limitte no further the endes of Theodosius gouernment when they confessed that God instituit imperiuâ—… Theodosâ—… ad communempacem ecclesiarum sanae fidâ—… confirmationem God did orday ne the gouernement of Theodosius for the common peace of the Churches and the confirmation of the sounde fayth Did Saint Augustine beléeue that Princes gouernement reached no further when he sayde Reges in terris seruiunt Christo faciendo legeâ—… pro Christo Kinges in the earth doe serue Christe in making lawes for Christe Did Iustinian suppose hys authoritie tended no further when he wrote Legum Authoritas diuinas humanas res bene disposuit The authoritie of the lawes hath well disposed both the deuine and humaine matters Did the mâ—…ste Christian King of Spaine Richaredus thinke that the ende of hys gouernement stretched no further when he sayde openly in the thirde Councell at Tolet before all the Bishoppes there assembled Quanto subditorum gloria Regali extolliâ—…r tanto prouidi esse debemus in his quae ad Deum sunt c Howe muche more we bee exalted in royall glorie ouer our subieâ—…es so muche more ought wee to bee carefull in those matters that appertayne to God eyther to augment our owne hope or else to looke to the profite of the people committed to vs of god And as ye see me in verie deede inslamed wyth the feruencie of fayth God hath styrred mee vp to this ende that the obstinacie of
infidelitie beeing expelled and the furie of discorde remooued I shoulde reuoke the people to the knoweledge of faythe and to the â—…eloweshippe of the Catholyke Churche who serued errour vnder the name of Religion Lo master Stapleton here ye sée farre other endes of the ciuile gouernment of Christian Princes than as you most falsely and iniuriouslye alleage to preserue them from all outwarde iniuryes oppressions and enemyes and further to preserue them for theyr safetie and quietnesse for theyr wealth abundaunce and prosperous maintenaunce and that it tendeth and reacheth no further And that thys is common as well to the heathenishe as the Christian gouernement Fye for shame master Stapleton that euer suche heathenishe woordes shoulde procéede out of your catholyke lips But ye are halfe ashamed I sée and woulde mollifie the matter so muche as ye can with a proper qualification that those thinges which these godly Princes did although they did them yet therein were they no more but Aduocates and so saye you All good Princes doe and haue done ayding and assisting the Churche decrees made for the repression of vice and errors for the maintenance of vertue true religion Not as supreme gouernors themselues in all causes spirituall and temporall but as faythfull Aduocates in ayding and assisting the spirituall power that it may the sooner and more effectually take place As ye bring this shifting distinction of Aduocate to late M. Stap. hauing before quite debarred the Princes Ciuill gouernement of goyng anye iote further than ye there did bounde it to meddle no further wyth ayding and assisting the spirituall power than a Saracene doeth ayde and assist it gyuing Princes no more leaue to be Aduocates thereof than ye make the Turke or Souldan saying this theyr so limitted gouernement is common as well to both Heathen as Christian euen so this your office of Aduocateshippe came to late into the Churche by manye yeares to debarre anye of these forenamed Princes in theyr owne supreme gouernement aboute 〈◊〉 matters to make it sownde as though they onely had béene the ayders assisters or Aduocates vnto others and not them selues the doers Whereas on the contrarie they were the verye doers thoughe not of those actions that appertâ—…yned to the Ministers offices yet of the gouerning and directing bothe the Ministers and their actions yea and the principall ouerséers and supreme rulers of them as euen their déedes and wordes before rehearsed plainly declare As for thys shyft of Aduocation was long sithence after theyr tymes deuysed Whiche office of Aduocateshippe séemeth to bée deâ—…yued from this fonde errour of the Papistes that the seculer power is immediately and primarelye as they terme it in the Pope but he hath not also immediatelye the exercise or execution of it but gyueth that to the Prince and so the Prince becommeth the Popes Aduocate or rather his executioner And thus was first say they Carolus Magnus Pope Adrians Aduocate executing the Byshoppe of Romes will agaynste Desiderius King of Lumbardie Wherevpon Charles was made Emperour by the Pope notwithstanding Michaell the Emperour was then lyuing at Constantinople Propter hoc dicunt sayeth Dante 's Aligherius quòd omnes qui fuerunt Romanorum imperatores post ipsum ipse Aduocatâ—… Ecclesiae sunt debent ab Ecclesia aduocari For thys thyng all that were Emperours of Rome after hym and hee hym selfe are Aduocates of the Churche and oughte of the Churche to be called vpon Lupolous de Babenberge also telleth that Pope Zacharie declarauit c. declared or pronounced that Childericus Pepins master shoulde be deposed and Pepine be made the King of Fraunce whome when Pope Steuen the seconde annoynted with his sonnes Carolus and Carolomanus French Kings Ipsos specialiter elegit sayth Lupoldus ad sedem Apostolicam defendendam Ex hac electione putoque reges imperatores Romanorum sint vsque in hodiernum diem ecclesia Romanae aduocati de qua Aduocatia loquuntur iura canonica He chose them especially to defende the Apostolicall Sea. Of this election I thinke it commeth that Kinges and Emperours of the Romaynes are euen to this daye the Aduocates of the Romayne Churche of whiche Aduocacie speake the Canonicall lawes Thus you sée the originall of your deuised Aduocateship commeth nothing neare the examples of the sayde godly Princes béeing themselues supreme gouernours in Ecclesiasticall matters before your Aduocateshippe was first hatched No reason therefore the Punie shoulde debarre the Seniour And yet it is but a sielie shift of your Canonistes descant rather detecting the vnlawfull encroching of the Pope than defeating anye parte of the Princes authoritie in this hys supreme gouernement As for those Princes Carolus Magnus his sonnes and other Emperours since theyr tymes were nothing suche Aduocates as your Pope and you woulde nowe pretende that is to say to be your onelye executioners But as these stories testifie euen these Aduocates also were the chiefe directours and supreme gouernours of all those things they did Yea the Pope hym selfe so well as anye other Byshoppe in theyr territoryes was subiecte to them They ayded and assisted the Byshoppe of Rome I graunt when he humblie aduocated then he called vppon them for ayde and assystance agaynst the wrongers of him But the Pope by commaundement called them not and they obeyed his calling and so became his aduocates which is cleane contrarie to an aduocates office And therefore once agayne your argument is nought They were aiders and aduocates Ergo not supreme gouernours But M. St. will further proue by his former ensamples why this supreme gouernement can not appertayne to the Prince For this supreme gouernement sayth he can he not haue vnlesse he were him selfe a spirituall man no more than can a man be master of a shippe that neuer was a mariner A maior that neuer was a citizen Hys principal gouernement resting in ciuill matters and in that respecte as I haue sayde he is supreme gouernour of all persons in his Realme but not of all their actions but in suche sense as I haue specified and least of all the actions of spirituall men especially of those which are most appropriate to them which can not be vnlesse he were him selfe a spirituall man. You frame your similitude very vnproportionably M. Stap â–ª from the master of a shippe or the maior of a citie to a Prince or supreme gouernour Either of these béeing particuler offices vnder a supreme gouernour that maketh lawes euen both for maiors in cities and masters of shippes also â–ª And albeit no argumeÌ„t builded on similitudes is firme to proue or improue any controuersie though rightly applied they may lighteÌ„ the matter to him that assenteth but not enforce it to him that denieth notwithstanding your similitudes as they proue nothing so they nothing lighten but more obscure the matter yet if these your similitudes were admitted froÌ„ maior and pilot to supreme gouernour what true conclusion can ye inferre vpon
suum sub manu Aaron patris eorum sicut praeceperat dominus deus Israel These are theyr courses after their ministeries to enter into the house of the Lorde and according to theyr manner be vnder the hande of Aaron their father as the Lorde God of Israel hath commaunded Which last wordes ye beginne withall and ioyne them to the first parte as thoughe the Lordes commaundement had béene of Dauids appoyntment where it was onely of the obedience of all the Tribe of Leuie to be vnder Aaron and his successors in the ministerie which in deede was Gods statte commaundement But the appoynting of the courses to those mencioned in that place was Dauids commaundement euen as your selfe doe say it was King Dauids appoyntment And the Chapter before of the lyke argument playnlye sayeth Iuxta pracepta quoquè Dauid 〈◊〉 c. And according to the last commaundements of Dauid the Leuites were numbered from twentie yeare and vpwarde to wayte vnder the hande of the sonnes of Aaron in the seruice of the house of the Lorde But admit that these wordes Sicut praeceperat c. as god had commaunded be to be ment as you pretend of a speciall coÌ„maundement to Dauid so to dispose those courses as ye expound it he did nothing without gods coÌ„maundement Is this again I pray you any argumeÌ„t to improue his supreme authority next vnder god bicause he did al things sicut praeceperat dominus as the lord had coÌ„maundéd then by this same rule yourpriest should not haue the supremacie neither for I am sure he had no further priuiledge to do against or beyond Gods coÌ„maundement no more than Dauid had It is your Pope that thus stretcheth his claime to do beyonde all Gods forvoade and contrarie to Gods commaundement but little or nothing sicut praeceperat dominus deuâ—… Israel as the Lord God of Israel hath coÌ„maunded As for the Quéenes Maiestie hath not done or doth any thing more than Dauid did which is sicut praeceperat c. as God hath commaunded hir to do And syth Gods commaundement vnto Dauid stretcheth to the placing appointing both aboue vnder in their orders of sacrifices eueÌ„ of all the leuiticall priesâ—…es it strengthneth hir cause the more that she hath not onely the bare example of King Dauid but also the warrant of Gods commaundement for the supreme gouernement of all hir clergie to place them in their seuerall functions Secondly ye say ye haue to note that king Dauid did make appoyntment vnto them of no straunge or new order to be taken in religion but that they should serue God in the temple iuxta ritum suum after their owne vsage custome or maner before time vsed Secondly we note to you againe M. St. that you interprete his sayings ambiguously and applie it maliciously Ambiguously bicause thoughe Dauid neyther made any straunge or newe order to be taken in Religion nor yet in their vsage custom or maner of their ceremonies commaunded of god and so vsed before his time but saw euery thing dutifully obserued both sicut praeceperat dominus iuxta ritum suum as the Lord had coÌ„manded after their owne order yet in their courses and in other circumstances diuers of his orders were new and strange vnto them and of his owne appoyntment And diuers ceremonies that were iuxta ritum suum according to their own order hauing been neglected by the priests and become straunge vnto them those he redressed iuxta ritum suum according to their own order and sicut praeceperat dominus as the Lorde had commaunded But what serueth this howe soeuer ye expounde it to infringe any supreme gouernement in king Dauid bicause the Prince is bounde not to alter the Priestes rites and ceremonies béeing appoynted of God Ergo he is not supreme gouernour in séeing them kéept accordingly might ye not rather argue contrarywise The prince is bound not to alter religion nor those orders that God hath ordeyned bringing in straunge and new Ergo he is bound to ouersée care and prouide that those orders be onely kept and none other brought in And if princes had alwayes looked to this their duetie more narrowly than they haue done then had not your Pope and popishe Prelates broughte in so many vayne traditions false doctrines and superstitious ceremonies as they haue neither iuxta ordinem suum according to their owne order nor sicut praceperat dominus as the Lord commaunded On the other part this your application is a malicious slaunder to the Q. highnesse For she hath not made or appointed to be receiued any strange or new order in religion but reuoked the olde primatiue order of religion ordeined of Christ and hath appoynted the ministers of God to do their dueties secundum ritum suum according to their owne order sicut praeceperat dominus as our sauiour Christ by him selfe and his Apostles hath prescribed to them It is your Pope and Papall Church that offreth strange fire to God that hath appoynted erected those strange and newe orders in religion and therfore hir maiestie hath worthily abolished all those false priests with their strange and new orders and all their false worship of God and in that hir highnesse thus doth she sheweth hir selfe to follow Dauids eâ—…sample like a godly supreme gouernour Thirdly and lastly say you king Dauids appoyntment was that they should serue in the house of God sub manu Aaron patris corum as vnder the spirituall gouernement of their father Aaron and his successors the high Priests Héere agayne to the shew of some aduauntage ye translate sub manu which is vnder the hande importing attendant at hande in their ministerie to the high Priest vnder the spirituall gouernement as thoughe they were exempted from the kings gouernement and so you make your conclusion saying The which words of the Scripture do so well and clearely expresse that king Dauid did not take vpon him any spirituall gouernment in the house of god c. This conclusion is captious and yet not to the purpose There is a difference betwéene spirituall gouernment and gouernment ouer spirituall â—…cclesiasticall matters This ye should conclude not that if ye will confute the bishop And this gouernment ouer spirituall matters tooke Dauid on him the other that is the spirituall gouernment he left entier vnto the Priests without any preiudice to their ecclesiasticall authoritie as ye graunted before And as Dauid therin did so doth the Quéenes Maiestie nowe But what maketh this agaynst king Dauids supreme gouernment that the inferior priests Leuites in their ministeries offices were by the kings appoyntment vnder the hande or spirituall gouernment of their spirituall father Aaron and his successors the high priests as you translate the text Is it not also the Q. Maiesties appoyntment that the inferiour Ministers should serue in their functions vnder the spiritual gouernment of their bishops and bicause it is hir
nowe But all godly Princes ought so to do as Iosaphat did in directing ecclesiasticall matters Ergo the Quéenes Maiestie doth now as all godly Princes ought to do To proue that she doth as did king Iosaphat your selfe confesse that he reformed religion and was carefull and diligent about directing ecclesiasticall matters But the Queenes Maiesties clayme is none other herein but this to reforme religion and to be carefull and diligent about directing ecclesiasticall matters Ergo King Iosaphats doings and hirs are not vnlike But this importeth in hir a supreme gouernment Ergo King Iosaphats example hitteth home the Butte and is a fitte patterne to hir and all godly Princes of supreme gouernment in ecclesiasticall causes Here séeing that for fashions sake where ye durst not denie the manifest truth ye haue graunted so much that in déede ye haue graunted all ye would now restraine your graunt and say it was conditionall that though all Princes may reforme religion and with care and diligence direct all ecclesiasticall matters yet they must do it in suche sort as Iosaphat did and therefore leauing your simple and generall termes of reformation and direction by godlye Princes yée will haue them perticulerly leueled by that sort that Iosaphat did them Whiche as we gladly graunt you in all thinges that Iosaphat did well and godly as were the moste of his doings and in al that which the Bishoppe rehearseth yet in some thinges Princes muste not doe in that sort but go beyonde him For althoughe for the moste part he did those thinges Quae placâ—…ta erant domino That were acceptable to the Lorde 〈◊〉 en excelsa non abstulit Notwithstanding he tooke not away the high places wherein godly princes muste do after a more zealous sort than Iosaphat did As for all those things that the Bishop citeth sée that ye stand to your graunt made vnto vs that Iosaphat reformed religion and vsed care and diligence about the directing of ecclesiasticall matters and then that godly princes may at this day do all the same And feare ye not but we will also graunt to you and not starte therefrom that they may reforme religion and directe ecclesiasticall matters in such sort as Iosaphat did And so excepte ye be disposed to quarell or will falsefie the sorte and manner of Iosaphats or the Quenes Highnesse doings I trust we shall anon agree herein They may do it say you in such sort as Iosaphat did that is to reforme religion by the priests First this is very subtilly spoken master Stapleton by the priests if ye meane by the aduise or godly counsell of the prestes true it is so might king Iosaphat well haue done If ye meane by the authoritie and commaundemente of the priestes then is it false nor you can euer proue that Iosaphat did it by theyr commaundement and authoritie but they contrarywise by his Nowe in suche sort as Iosaphat did hath the Quéenes Maiestie done and this proueth bothe their supremacies herein Not to enact say you a new religion which the priestes of force shall sweare vnto Indéede this did not Iosaphat no more hath the Quéenes Maiestie done it is but your surmised sclander Item to suffer the priests to iudge in controuersies of religion not to make the decision of suche things a parliamente matter This latter parte of your sentence is agayne but youre manifest sclander to suffer the priestes to iudge in controuersies of religion after the rule of Gods word and not after their owne pleasures in suche sorte Iosaphat not onely suffred but ordeyned them commanded and ouersaw them so to do and so doth the Quéenes maiestie And this sufferance commaundement and ouersight argueth their chiefe authorities Item not to prescribe a newe forme order in ecclesiasticall causes but to see that according to the lawes of the church before made the religion be set forthe as Iosaphat procuâ—…ed the obseruation of the old religion appointed in the lawe of Moyses And euen thus and none otherwise hath the Quéenes Maiestie procured the obseruation of the old religion of Iesus Christ whome Moyses prefigured and the orders of the apostles and most auncient fathers after them to be restored remouing as Iosaphat did all other newe formes and orders of ecclesiasticall abuses And this restoring and procuring of the aunciente religion and ceremonies the suppressing and abolishing of new is againe in both these princes a good argument of their supreme gouernement Briefly say you that he do all this as an aduocate defender and son of the Churche with the authoritie and aduice of the cleargie so Iosaphat furdered religion not otherwise Your word aduocate how it came vp is declared already but neither aduocate defender sonne or daughter herein are any thing contrary to supreme gouernour But where ye adde al these words aduocate defender and sonne to the prince and to the cleargy authoritie aduice this sheweth your subtile deuise to deceyue princes with youre paynted termes But princes begin to waxe wise and learned as Dauid exhorted them and perceaue howe ye haue foaded them with these names and stiles that were but nomen sine re a bare name without any matter for the authoritie and aduice ye reserued to your selues The princes to whome ye gaue these gay titles had neither authoritie nor might giue their aduice according as Hosius woulde not haue them so much as to talke of matters of religion much lesse to reforme religion to directe ecclesiasticall matters with care and diligence as before ye graunted And nowe to eate againe your worde ye woulde haue them be carefull and diligent without aduice reforme and direct without authoritie of their owne except onely the clergies aduice and authoritie Thinke ye Iosaphat did so not otherwise as ye sayâ—… ye may well tell vs so but the Scripture telleth vs otherwise howe he gaue aduice to the Clergie and by his authoritie directed them though I denie not he might vse their aduice and admitte their authoritie to yet the supreme authoritie apperteyned vnto him Not say you as a supreme absolute gouernour contrary to the vniforme consent of the whole clergie in full conuocation yea and of all the Bishops at once This worde absolute is but your absolute and malicious slaunder M. Stap. Such absolute supreme gouernment did your Pope vsurpe as sayth Franciscus de Ripa that the Popes power is absolute and that he may do what he will. As Baldus in the proheme of the decrées alleageth that his power is absolute from all bondes and from all rule of restraint And that we must beléeue him absolutely as Marcus Mantua and Pope Boniface himselfe affirmeth Thus doth not the Quéenes maiestie no more did king Iosaphat and therefore I inferre the conclusion that the Queenes Maiestie doth all these things in such sort as losaphat did them excepting these quarelous slaunders which are your owne put them vp in your purse agayne master Stapleton and
and therfore good reason that yours giue place to his senior the popish later base born religion of your Romish church to thâ—… first most auncient true religion of that Alpha Omega Iesus Christ himself Master Stap. hauing now set vp these two false markes like to one being out of his way that after he is once ouer his shooes in the myre careth not howe he benâ—…yre himselfe but running deeper through thicke and thinne cryeth this is the way to haue other to followe him so rusheth on master Stapleton still further from the issue and yet taketh euerye thing in his way to bée hys marke and directorie Setting vp the perticuler factes of those Princes that chalenge and take vppon them this supreme gouernement that the selfe same factes must be founde in the ensamples of the olde testament or else hée sayth the Bishop strayeth from the marke VVhat euidence haue ye brought forth sayth he to shew that in the olde lawe anye King exacted of the Clergie In verbo Sacerdotiâ—… that they shoulde make none Ecclesiasticall lawe without his consent as King Henrie did of the clergie of Englande Is this the marke master Stap. betwene the Bishop and master Feckenham to proue in their supreme gouerments euerye selfe same perticuler fact yea the circumstances about or concerning the fact to be all one in them that clayme this gouernment nowe and those that claymed it then since bothe the states the times yea all the ceremonies of religion of the Iewes then and ours nowe are nothing like and trow ye then the princes perticuler doings must be like and euen the same and euidence must be giuen out of the one for euery fact of the other or else their supreme authorities be not alike The issue betweene them is not so straight laced but requireth onely any such gouernment some such gouernment yea he it al suche gouernment to I meane not all suche actions in the gouernment but the supreme directing gouernance authoritie or powre are proued both alike in either princes estate so well ouer eccl. persons in all their functions then or now as ouer the temporall in theirs For by this rule wheras that most famous prince king Henry the eight did sweare also to his obedience all his temporall subiects in ciuill causes as other Princes likewise haue done and do it would be harde to alleâ—…ge an euidence thereof out of the old Testament and yet their supreme gouernments therin were not therefore vnlike As for the ministring of the othe is but a circumstance to confirme the matter and not the matter itselfe And if king Henry were by the obstinate and craftie malice of his popishe clergiâ—… then constrayned for his more assurance to take an othe or promise of them on the honestie of their priesthoode which God wâ—…t was but a small holde as it went then in the moste of them and that no king of those ancient yeres mentioned in the olde testament béeing not moued by the wickednesse or mistrust of his clergy tooke the like othe or promise of their priestes honestie or fayth of their priesthoodâ—… then what is this to or from the matter why their supreme authorities shoulde not be alike in bothe Do not you also say for your side that the highe Priest had suche supreme gouernment then as your Pope â—…othe chalenge now ouâ—…r all eccl. causes â—…nd dothe â—…ot your Pope nowe exacte of all his clergie in verbo â—…acerdotij by the worde of their priesthoode that they shall make no eccl. law without his consent May we not then returne your owne words on your selfe VVhat euidence can you bring foorth to shew that in the olde lawe any highe Priest exacted this of the clergie vnder him And if ye can not as ye can not dothe not then this your wyle reason and newe marke ouerturne the false clayme that your Pope claymeth of such supreme gouernment now as the high Priest had then But his clayme is false his gouernment nothing like For the high priest then tooke not vpon him to make eccl. lawes as doth now your Pope but only obserued such eccl. lawes as God had made to his hande till time of the Pharisies corruption who not content with Gods lawes had deuised besides many fond lawes of their own inuentions when there wanted amoÌ„g them this kingly authoritie To the which so long as it continued the high priest al other obeyed receyuing and obseruing such eccl. constitutions as their godly princes made vnto them So did Aaron first receiue the eccl. coÌ„stitutions of Moses So after him did alâ—…re residue admit the eccl. constitutions of Dauid the rest of the foresaid princes their priests made none of theÌ„ selues without the Princes consent But the princes ordâ—…ined diuers eccl. orders partly with the aduise and consent partly without yea agaynst the wil coÌ„sent of their clergy now then and yet those godly princes exacted of them euen as they were true priests as the stories of Iosaphat and Ezechias mention how they charged their priests euen in that they were the Lords priests which is all one with that you alleage in verbo sacerdotij that they should do suche things as they appoynted them to do And is not this good and authenticall euidence for king Henries doings but that the priests appoynted any suche ordinance without their princes consents will be harde for you to bring the like or any â—…uidence at all for your Popes exacting And if as ye conclude herevpon this exacting to make no eccl. law without his consent be to make the ciuil magistrate the supreme iudge for the final determinatioÌ„ of causes ecclesiasticall then your Pope hauing no such euidence for him by this your marke is no supreme iudge for suche finall determination but it â—…latly proueth agaynst you that the Princes should be the supreme iudges therein And if the exacting of consent importe suche supreme authoritie as héere ye confesse then whereas not onely these ancient kings but also the ancient christian Emperors in the confirming of your Pope exacted that none shoulde be a lawfull Pope to whome they gaue not their consent it argueth that those Emperours were the supreme Iudges for the finall determination of the Popes ecclesiasticall election Which afterwarde when ye come to the handling therof ye renie affirming that although his consent was necessarie to be required yet it argued no suche supreme iudgement in the matter And thus you care not may ye for the time shuffle out an answere howe falsly or how contrary ye counterblast your false The nexte marke is yet further wyde from the issue and more fonde than any of the other for abandoning his Pope and generall Councels VVhat can ye bring foorthe sayth he out of the olde Testament to aide and relieue your doings who haue abandoned not onely the Pope but generall Councels also and that by playne acte of Parliament And
c. before you so all you stande nowe with vs stifely at this baye that they are euen as necessarie to saluation as the word of god And if ye let goe this tackling all come downe on anheape Whiche Alfonsus foreâ—…éeing or euer he woulde make his booke as he termes it agaynst heresies Iaciendum est solidissimum fundamentum c. VVe muste laye saythe he a moste sounde foundation wherewith we muste hereafter moste often defende our selues agaynst heretikes as with a moste sure bulwarck that the traditions and difinitions of the vniuersal church in those thinges that pertayne to faythe althoughe the euident scripture fayle for the proofe of them are of no lesse authoritie than the holy Scripture it selfe And agayne Mihi horum per tot seecula c. The authoritie of these most approued men by so many ages should suffice to me although I had by no former reason conuicted it Let vs therfore say that the Churche muste be obeyed in all things that are to be beleeued or to be done although the authoritie of scripture want Thus do you estéeme and stoutly stande to the defence of your ceremonies quite contrarie to all the foresaide auÌ„cient fathers that giue as we do all especiall prerogatiue to the only scriptures You were best therfore to call them heretikes UigilantiaÌ„s with vs for so your Sorbonists played with Erasmus Though he allowed many of your popishe ceremonies and durst not speake open mouthed agaynst any of them for it had beene to hotte for him since he dyd but touche them ful softly and yet they cried out vpon him a Uigilantian an Aerian an heretike as héere you doe A sore â—…adde ye knowe is soone broken and they are tender ware and dayntie to be delte withall the least worde in the worlde agaynst them will make a maruellous heretike Erasmus had but sayde Quo magis haeremus c. Howe muche more we cleaue to bodily ceremonies so muche the more wee encline to Iudaisme And dyd but wyshe on thys wyse Opto omnes esse tales c. I wishe that all men were suche that they mighte not muche neede bodily ceremonies or not giue so much vnto them And that Christ said Discipulis nihil istarum reruÌ„ prascribo I prescribe to my Disciples nought of these things eate this meate abstayne from that now rest now labour be clad thus touch not this handle not that if I were their master they shoulde not once learne to trust in these bodily thinges least they shoulde remayne weake alwayes He sayde but thus and lesse he coulde not well say and say any thing but Lorde what sturre the Sorbonistes made at the matter and howe they all to be heretiked hym Aerian Aetian Iouinian Uigilantian c. So that he was fayne for feare so muche as he mighte to sette a good collour on these your ceremonies and when he had salued the matter as well as he coulde what sayde he then in this retractation for them Iudaismun appello â—…on Iudaicam impietatem I call them Iudaisme not Iudaicall impietie And yet for al his excuses and commendations he was fayne to say Quanquam si Ecclesia tribuitur c. Although if that be attributed to the Church what so euer is prescribed of the Bishops or is done in the churches there are many coÌ„stitutions of Bishops of the which not with out cause all men make a publike complainte There are many ceremonies in certaine Churches the which ye may call either to no purpose or els foolish or else superstitious for commonly either some idle Deane or els some other meane man like him hath deuised them Oft times some old wife giuing monie therefore obteyneth that this or that be done now than certaine creepe in or if not so they breake in euen by the violence of the coÌ„mon peoples custome He should therefore not speake wickedly that should say the libertie of the Christian people is burdened with such constitutions and ceremonies especially when among them there are not a fewe that do no good at all to godlinesse but either to lucre or ambition Thus was Erasmus euen where he defendeth your ceremonies constrained to confesse Yea where he speaketh euen the best of them In his obseruandis c. In obseruing these saith he although they were ordayned to godlinesse the minde of many Christians is Iewishe either while they rest there neglecting those things that are of the spirit or els while with a preposterous Iudgement they attribute more to those outwarde things then to true godlinesse which is settled in the affections But euen as the hardnesse of the Iewes was to be kept in with so many prescriptions as it were with boundes so charitie waxing colde in Christians caused that the Bishops prescribed many things not vnlike the Iewishe prescriptions although to be kept with an vnlike minde For they are as it were certaine wagons wherein the infancie of little children is brought vnto the spirite As he sheweth after an example Exemplicausa c. For ensample the people is bid to bow their knees or their heads to god By this ceremonie the people is warned to submit their soule to God this helpe he that is perfect neede not who submitteth his minde to God in what state soeuer his bodie be And although that such as this the bodies comely gesture of knéeling which is not a ceremonie inueÌ„ted of your Bishops but taught vs in Gods word by Christ and his Apostles manner of prayer we not onely vse but also diuerse of your Churches Ceremonies be not refused of vs but kept yet are they vsed farre otherwise than your prelates vrged them or your people kept them reposing in them as Erasmus saith Proram puppim Sanctimoniae The whole stay of Religion Tali hominuÌ„ genere quoniam c. Bicause saith he I saw the worlde full of such kinde of men I now and then call them backe to the studies of true godlinesse from the admiration of ceremonies But to admonish to trust to ceremonies I neither thought it necessary nor safe Of the worde of trusting let other looke to it vnto me to whom this worde to trust soundeth to leane principally vnto it soundeth hardly to trust to the workes of men and to trust to Ceremonies Neither finde I these voices either in the diuine writings or in the writings of godly men Thus hardly was Erasmus driueÌ„ to his defence about your Ceremonies by the Facultie of the Diuines of Paris that vrged the necessitie vertue and confidence in them In the ende of all which conflictes as he saith to them so say I to you M. Stap. Quid autem his tot c. Of all these so many propositions what is done that shoareth vp Christian Religion that the people should beleeue a Monkes cowle was auailable to heale diseases that passing ouer Christe we should with petitions sollicite the Saincts That
Dominus Iesus reueâ—…auit cuidam deuoto poterit venire in breui ad amorem timorem perfectum coelestium By this meanes as the Lord Iesus reuealed to a certayne deuoute man he might in shorte tyme come to a perfecte loue and feare of heauenly things But in the meane time the people sticking in visible and earthly thinges fell without all feare or loue of Gods truthe euen to a perfection of Idolatrie Beléeuing too muche in such faygned reuelations and reiecting the word of God wherein Christ hath not to a certayne deuoute man but to all the worlde reuealed the expresse will of his heauenly father in playne words forbidding the worshippe of all Images yea of all creatures as heathen and wicked Idolatrie But ye still crye that your Images are not Idols as the heathens Images were and therefore your worshippe of them is not Idolatrie as was theirs I omitte the examining of thys sequele M. Stapl. And will onely as nowe denye the antecedent The which thoughe other more at large haue improued and I haue somewhat touched it before yet bicause at the very instant of the writing hereof there came to my hands a paper by a certen friend of youres whome I spare to name wherein was conteyned as he affirmed suche reasons as were vnanswerable to proue that your Images are nothing like the Heathen Idols Although perusing the same by Doctor Saunders foresayde booke of Images it séemeth to be drawen from his collections of the differences betwéene Idols and Images and so by some other already may be full answered yet I thought it not amisse euen héere to set it downe and sée by this whiche already is spoken howe easily or hardly it is to be answered vnto The differences betweene the Idols of the Gentiles and our Images sayth this Papistes paper First some kinde of Idols had no truthe at all in nature but were feigned monsters all our Images haue that essentiall truthe extant in the world which they represent I answere first for some of their Idols ye say truth Secondly for all your Images ye make a loude lye As for ensample the Image of S. Sunday pictured like a man with all kinde of 〈◊〉 about him as though he had bene Iohn of all craftes Wheras for the béeing of any suche man there was no suche essentiall truth at all extant in the worlde that it represented And yet for your Images this is a generall rule that you must most firmly beléeue Quod qualem imaginem vides ad extra oculo corporali â—…lem Christus habet similitudinem aed infra secundum esse diuinale Ideale That what maner of Image thou seest outwarde with thy corporal eye Christ hath the same similitude inwarde according to his diuine beeing and conceyued forme And the like he sayth of the Uirgin â—…deò habeatur Imago Mariae virginis pulchra quoniam turpis Imago teste Maximo non est vera Imago Mariae sed falsa Cum ipsa Maria sit totius pulchritudinis decoris amoris regina domina Let a fayre Image be had of the virgin Mary bicause a foule Image as Maximus witnesseth is not the true Image of Mary but a false Image sith Mary is the Queene and Lady of fayrenesse comlynesse and loue And M. Saunders concluding this poynt saythe For looke what proportion is betweene thing and thing the same proportion is betweene signe and signe of those things By which rule of leueling the Image according to the essential truth extant in the worlde of the partie represented by the Image as many other Saincts yea Christes and the blessed Uirgins maye be proued Idols being pictured amisse and swaruing from their truth represented so by no meanes can ye defende your consecrate cake your three faced picture of God the father your winged and feathered Aungels your pictures of Saint Sauiour and Saint Sunday from being manifest Idols And therefore betweene these some Images of yours and those some Idols of theirs there is no difference in this first point Secondly all their Idols were without truth concerning fayth and religion All our Images conteyne such a truth as belongeth to Christes fayth and religion I answere No Images belong to the truth of Christes fayth religion As for religion all the religion that Christ ordeyned was without Images Images in diuerse places are forbidden to be worshipped Custodiâ—…e vos à simulacâ—…ris Kepe your selues from Images And they are in no place bidden to be worshipped As for fayth Fides ex auditu auditus auteÌ„ per verbum dei Faith coÌ„meth by hearing hearing by the worde of God. But the worship of Images is without the word of god yea as is alreadie shewed by your schoolemen it is but of the Churches ordinaÌ„ce but no faith can be with out Gods worde the worship then of Images is without the truth of Christs faith religion so likewise in this 2. point they differ not from the worship of the heathen Idols Thirdly sacrifice was done to their Idols not so to oure Images but onely to God. I answere first in that ye made such sacrifice to God as God neuer ordeyned and made more dayly renuing of sacrifices to him not contented with the only sacrifice that he made once for all therein ye committed plaine Idolatrie and your massing sacrifice was the Idoll Secondly where ye say ye made sacrifice onely to God I haue proued alreadie in plaine confession of your selues that ye made sacrifice to the blessed virgin also Thirdly that ye say they made sacrifice to their Idols so do not you If sacrifice bée the worship of Latria then so doe you by your owne tales but what matter maketh this wheÌ„ ye sacrificed to them of whome the Images were the pictures and what differed that from the Heathens doing that sacrificed to Iupiter before the Image of Iupiter or honored him by sacrifice in his Image whiche thinges you did also and therefore without any difference héerein bothe theirs and your Images are Idols Fourthly their Images belonged many times to very wicked men our Images which we worship belong alwayes to blessed Saincts Not alwayes M. St. to blessed Saincts except ye iumble God his Saincts togither Yea some of those that ye worship for blessed Saincts are doubted of your selues to be daÌ„ned spirites belike they were little better than wicked meÌ„ But how blessed saincts some of theÌ„ were whoÌ„ ye worshipped read eueÌ„ your own writer sir Thomas Mores works of Images pilgrimages ye shall sée little difference betwéene theirs yours except yours were the worsse euen in that simulata sanctitas est duplex iniquita Their counterfeit sainctship made them double hypocrites Fourthly some of the Gentils professed theÌ„selues to adore the vnsensible wood and stone we do not professe or teache any such thing but rather the contrarie I answere if some of the Gentiles did teach this among them
nâ—…n at Louaine that ye would be thought no hedgeâ—…réeper â–ª nor â—…uedropper as sâ—… of your broode are peaking here in lusâ—…y lanes and lurking in corners and yet they court theÌ„ selues no more Donatistes than you NotwithstaÌ„ding it appeareth for all your crakes bragges ye haue not that stout courage fâ—…r your raâ—…se but that ye like Louaine better than M. 〈◊〉 â—…ging and had rather blow your 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 like 〈◊〉 lâ—…ytorer in a lusky lane or hide your head 〈◊〉 the corner of an old â—…otten barne rather than warme your selfe with a â—…aggot aâ—… a â—…ake in Smithfielde suche as was the crueltie of your Popish tyrannie to those that constantly abode the terrible brunt therof And although other giuing place to your furie either of their owne infirmitie or that God preserued them to a better oportunitie did then flée or hide them selues what dyd they héerein that Chryst gaue them not licence example and commaundement so to do Ye might aswell obiect this to those Saincts of God of whome S. Paule telleth that they wente about in the wildernesse of whome the worlde was vnworthy Why say ye not Elias lurked in lusky lanes when he sted the face of Iesabell Why say ye not that Athanasius crepte into corners when he hidde him selfe seueÌ„ yeres in a Cesterne an harder harborough than a rotten barne For shame M. Stap. learne to make a difference betwéene the perfecution and the cause of it or else this were an easie argument to make all Donatistes yea your selues also And would to God all corners rotten barnes and luskie lanes were wel ransacked some luskes I think would appeare in their likenesse whom ye would be loth should be founde out M. Stapleton Thirdly ye say The donatistes when they could not iustifie their owne doctrine nor disproue the Catholikes doctrine leauing the doctrine fell to rayling agaynst the vitious life of the Catholikes In this poynt who be Donatistes I referre me to Luthers and Caluines bookes especially to M. Iewell and to your owne Apologie Ye nâ—…ede not M. Stap. referre your selfe so farre referre your selfe to your selfe a Gods name yea go no further than this your Counterblast I warrant ye you blow such a blast héerein that ye maye well encounter master D. Harding master D. Saâ—…ders M. Dorman M. Marshall or any other of your writers thoughe they haue all godly giftes in this poynt yet this your Rhel horicall grace of rayling goeth so farre beyonde them all that they are scarse worthy to cary the wispe after you M. Stap. Onely at this I maruell that like the wiseman when he tolde how many were in the companie he neuer reckoned him selfe that you hauing so pregnant a vayne héerein do still forget your selfe But belike it is for this cause that as ye surmount all your companie so ye goe beyonde the Donatistes also who as ye saye rayled onely agaynst the vitious lyues But you where ye finde no vitious life to rayle agaynst the Protestantes fall to slaundering and reuiling euen their godly and vertuous liues Fourthly ye say The Donatistes refused the opeÌ„ knowne catholike Churche and sayde the Church remayned onely in those that were of their side in certaine corners of Afrike And sing not you the like song preferring your Geneua VVittenberge before the whole Churche beside The Donatistes as you say M. St. tied the Churche to Affrike and wrested the scripture for it forsaking the open knowne catholike Church in déede But you shoulde haue proued your popish Church to be that open knowne catholike Church now which they refused then If ye saye you proue that bicause they refused the church of Rome then your church is the church of Rome now if ye vnderstaÌ„d the church for the coÌ„gregation of the faythful ye vtter a double vntruth For they-refused not only the coÌ„gregation then at Rome but of al the world besides and agayne your church or congregation of Rome now is nothing the same or lyke the same in religion that it was then If ye meane by the church of Rome the Citie of Rome and the Popes chayre there then ye proue your selues to be Donatistes that tye the churche of Christ dispersed euery where to the seate of Rome as they did vnto Aphrike And if ye meane by the open knowne catholike Churche the multitude of people acknowledging your Popes sâ—…ate at Rome then agayne are ye Donatists by your second poynt in craking of multitude depending on Rome a corner in Italie as ye saye the Donatistes craked of their multitude depeÌ„ding on their corners in Affrike As for vs we depende neither vpon Geneua nor VVittenberge nor tye the Church of Christ vnto them nor preferre them either before the whole catholike church or any parte thereof nor referre men vnto them for the triall of the Church or to any other place else but allow them and all and singuler other places where the worde of God is sincerely set fooâ—…th where Idolatrie errours superstition are abolished We 〈◊〉 to the mountaynes as Chrysostome expoundeth it Quâ—… sunt Christiani conferant se ad scripturaâ—… They that are ChristiaÌ„s let them get them to the scriptures And why not to Rome Ierusalem and suche other mountaynes but onely to the scriptures Bicause saith he since that heresie hath possessed the Churches there caÌ„ be no triall of true christianitie nor refuge of Christians that would trie out the truthe of fayth but the deuine scriptures Before it coulde haue bene knowne diuers wayes whiche was the Church which was Gentilitie But nowe there is none other wayes to know which is in deede the very church of Christ but all onely by the Scriptures If they therefore set foorthe the Scriptures we acknowledge them to be of the Church of christ Let Rome doe this and we will as gladly acknowledge Rome to be of the Churche of Chryst as either Wittenberge or Genâ—…ua â–ª Yea as S Hierome sayth which is also put in the Popes owne decrées Eugâ—…bium Constantinople Rhegium Alexandrie Thebes Guarmatia or any other place if it professe the truthe with Geneua and Wittenberge For on this consideration sayth S. Augustine the Churche is holy and catholike not bicause it dependeth on Rome or any other place nor of any multitude obedient to Rome bothe whiche are Donatisticall but quia recte credit in DeuÌ„ bicause it beleeueth rightly on God. This is our song M. Stap. of Geneua VVittenberge Affrica yea and of Rome too And if you can sing any better note I giue you good leaue for me onely I would wish you howsoeuer ye sing to leaue your flat lying tune in saying Fifthly say you The Donatistes corrupted the fathers bookes wonderfully and were so impudent in alleaging them that in their publique conference at Carthage they pressed muche vpon Optatus wordes and layde him foorth as an author making for theÌ„ who yet wrote expresly against them and in all
worshipped ye then and that with such high worship to your solemne Saint Thomas Becket that dyed for no matter of Religion at all But eyther for his obstinacie agaynste his liege Lorde and agaynst all the Barons Spirituall and Temporall of the Realme or if ye colour it neuer so fayre yet was it but in mainteyning his honour and the priuileges of the Clergie and that contrarie to the auncient custome of the Realme except yée will graunt that the Popishe Religion doeth consiste herein Whiche if ye bée ashamed to confesse vpbrayde not then for shame false Martyrs vnto vs nor yet the Canonising of wicked Sainctes We vse no such Canonization at all It redoundeth on your selfe on your Legende on your Popes and on your Pope holy Saincts Whome by this rule you make both Donatists Montanists Manicheans or what soeuer Heretikes ye can obiect besides As for all these Comparisons hitherto betwéene the Protestantes and the Donatists wherein ye thinke ye haue be stowed great cunning there is not 〈◊〉 poyâ—… that is not violently wrested to make it séeme to touch vs and not one poynt that being returned on your selues doeth not rightly and fully hitte you home againe And therefore I for my part am content as you concluding say you be To ende this talke with the whole conference leauing it to the indifferent Reader to consider whether the Popishe Catholikes or the Protestants drawe nearer to the Donatists To come newe at length to the sixt and last parte of this Chapter which consistes in remâ—…ing such motiues as the Bishop alleageth to burtheâ—… Master Feckenham with the practise of the Donatists First master Stapleton deuideth these motiues in twaine Let vs then sayth master Stapleton proceede foorth and consider vpon what good motiues ye charge master Feckenham to be a Donatist whiche are to say truth none other but falsehoode and follie But as ye surmise the one is bicause hee craftily and by a subtile shifte refuseth the prooues of the olde Testament as the Donatists did The other bicause hee with the sayde Donatists should auouch that secuâ—…er Princeâ—… haue not to meddle in matters of Religion or causes ecclesiasticall nor to punishe any man for such causes These two motiues ye say Master Stapleton are to say the truth none other but falsehoode and follie In déede they are the worsâ—… by comming through so false a marchantes handes as yours For shame either tell the wordes as they â—…e at least the true and full effect of them or neuer sette them out in a distinct letter syâ—… you so often but euer falsly vpbrayde the Bishop hereof Else all the follie and falsehoode will proue to be in your selfe and not in the Bishops motiues The Bishop spâ—…ke not of Princes medling or punishing for Ecclesiasticall 〈◊〉 as though the Donatists simpliâ—… denied that anâ—… yâ—… graunted Princes yet so much as to meddle or punishe for your Ecclesiasticall causes that is to say to be your executioners therin as though the Emperors other Christian Princes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 more vpon them at that time But the Bishop tolde how the godly fathers craued aide assistance of the magistrats and rulers to reforme them to reduce them to the vâ—…itie of the church to represse their heresies with their au thoritie godly lawes made for that purpose to whome it belonged of duetie and whose especiall seruice of Christ is to see care and prouide that their subiects be gouerned defended and mainteyned in the true and syncere religion of Christ without all errours superstitions and heresies This is that the Bishop wrote and to proue this he alleageth Saint Augustine Thus did Christian Princes gouerne in Ecclesiasticall causes then This did the Donatists then denie vnto them and this do now the Papists denie and ye come sneaking in and tell vs the Bishoppes motiue was this In charging Master Feckenham to followe the Donatists by cause hee with the Donatistes shoulde auouche that seculer Princes haue not to meddle in matters of Religion or causes Ecclesiasticall nor to punishe anie man for suche causes As though the controuersie had bâ—…ne for anie kinde of medling or punishing whiche you sâ—…ming to graunt to Princes to bée your seruaunts and droyles in suche ecclesiasticall causes and so farre as you assigne them might therefore séeme not to play the Donatists when ye play their partes so liuely as can bée and so subtilly that the Donatistes were but Babes vnto you in séeming to giue them some medling or punishing in Ecclesiasticall causes but if they meddle with or punishe you or anie other otherwise than ye commaunde and restrayne them you so little then suffer them to meddle in Ecclesiasticall matters that with solemne curses ye debarre them from medling in anie temporall and ciuill matters too so farre ye passe the Donatists For shame master Stapleton tell your tale plainely that we may sée whether M. Feckenham played the Donatistes part or no or else your doubling wyll declare your selfe to be a Donatist also for companie But let vs sée how ye aunswere these motiues euen as your selfe propounde them The one is say you bicause he craftily and by a subtile shifte refuseth the proues of the old Testament as the Donatistes did Your Stale Iestes M. Stapleton of a fine blast of a horne â–ª of a â—…oule slawe of a blinde betell blunte shifte I ouer passe them When M. Feckenham ye say offereth to yelde if ye can proue this regiment either by the order that Christ left behinde him in the new Testament either by the Doctours either by Councels or els by the continuall practise of any one Churche thinke you M. Horne that this is not a large and an ample offer The largenesse of this offer is not here in questioÌ„ M. St. the offer is large and ample inough â–ª taken of the Bishop at his handes and proued vnto him at his owne demaunde It remaineth then that he stande to his promise and yelde to the truth or else he sheweth that he minded to offer more than he purposed to perfourme Onely now it is examined why here he specifieth the new Testament and quite leaueth out the old Testament â–ª This doing in this pointe saith the B. smelleth of a Donatist Nay say you There is not so much as any coÌ„iecture to gather this vppon yea the old Testament is not by this offer excluded but verely included For if the new Testament which rehearseth many things out of the old haue any thing out of the old Testament that make for this regiment if any Doctour old or new if any Councell haue any thing out of the old Testament that serue for this regiment then is Master Feckenham concluded yea by his owne graunt For so the Doctour or Councell hath it he is satisfied according to his demaunde VVhereby it followeth he doth not refuse but rather allowe and affirme the proufes of the old Testament It might
Augustine that is their accuser who saith they did refuse the proufes of the old Testament And you say ye haue not redde it had ye redde S. Augustine or so much as the wordes taken out of him that the Bishop citeth and you take vppon you to answere vnto for Master Feckenhams defence how could ye not haue redde it but ye would slippe off the matter vnder the colour of the Manicheans refusall bicause the Donatistes did not refuse it as they did therefore they did not refuse it at all whereas the Manichées did simplie and vtterly refuse the old Testament which the Donatistes did not but refused it like such wise men as the Papistes when they thinke it maketh against them â–ª and admit vrge it when they thinke it maketh for them thus did they and thus do you and therfore for this handling of the old Testament ye be like the Donatistes But for your handling of the newe Testament ye be like the Manichées of whome S. Augustine saith Ipsiâ—…sque nouâ—… Testaments c. And they so reade the sentences of the new Testament as though they had bene falsified that what they lust they take from thence and what they like not they reiect and as though they contained not all the truth they preferred many bookes that were Apocrypha And saide that in their Archemanichee the promise of the Lorde Iesus Christ was fulfilled wherevppon in his letters he called him selfe the Apostle of Iesus Christe bicause Iesus Christe promised to sende him and sente in him Iesus Christe Whiche how nere it toucheth your Popes practise looke you to it and cléere him of it M. Stapleton els ye will not onely proue Donatistes I am afrayde but also Manicheans Thus muche then for the former motiue that the B. had to charge M. Feckenham with the Donatistes And if this suffise as you say for this branche to purge M. Feckenham content is pleased and so am I let it suffise in Gods blessed name I commit it to the readers iudgement Now to the other motiue Concerning the other say you besides your falshood your great follie doth also shew it selfe too aswell as in the other to imagine him to be a Donatiste And to thinke or say as you say they did that Ciuill Magistrates haue not to do with Religion nor may not punishe the transgressours of the same Master Feckenham saith no such thing and I suppose he thinketh no such thing And furder I dare be bold to say that there is not so much as a light coniecture to be grounded thereof by any of M. Feckenhams words vnlesse M. Horne become suddenly so subtile that he thinketh no difference to say the Prince should not punishe an honest true man in steede of a theefe and to say he should not punishe a theefe or to say there is no difference betwixt all thinges and nothing For though M. Feckenham and all other Catholikes do denie the ciuill Princes supreme gouernment in all causes Ecclesiasticall yet doth not M. Feckenham nor any Catholike denie but that ciuill Princes may deale in some matters Ecclesiasticall as Aduocates and Defenders of the Churche namely in punishing of Heretikes by sharpe lawes Vnto the whiche lawes Heretikes are by the Church first giuen vp and deliuered by open excommunication and condemnation Here first as ye did in the other motiue so againe ye charge the Bishop with falshood and folly but take héede M. Stapleton the falshood and follie light not on your owne pate as it did in the other Whether it be follie in you or crafte let other déeme certainely falshood it is that when ye come to the setting downe of the Bishops wordes in a distincte letter ye dare not for both eares on your head set downe the full wordes of the Bishop nor of S. Augustine nor yet of the Donatistes whereby it might haue bene knowne what the Donatistes attributed or denied to Princes and how néere or how farre ye had come vnto or diffred from them Thus durst ye not do and thus should ye haue done which argueth your owne falsehood But ye turne the catte into the panne and say that the Donatistes saide Ciuill magistrates haue not to do with religion nor may not punishe the transgressours of the same but say you M. FeckeÌ„ham saith no such thing and you suppose he thinketh no such thing and furder ye dare be bolde to say there is not so much as a light coniecture to be grounded thereof by any of M. Feckenhams wordes and hereon you conclude him to be no Donatiste Now since ye will be thus bolde for M. Feckenham as to enter into his thought ye should not haue bene afrayde with the Byshop to haue set downe his playne written wordes or so muche as the full content therof Did ye feare they would bite ye in déede they woulde haue shewed you to haue bene a Donatist they would haue shewed howe ye haue altered the Donatistes refusall and S. Augustines complaynt on them to make it séeme you were none Ye saye M. Feckenham and you graunt Princes may deale with matters ecclesiasticall Why M. Stapl. so diâ—… the Donatistes too Haue not your selfe confessed that they ranne for succour to Iulianus the Apostata and highly commended him And ye knowe in Cecilians controuersie that they refused not the Emperours dealing till he delte still agaynst them and therfore as you say you do not no more did they simply denie that princes might deale in matters of religion Ye should therfore haue adioyned the wordes that the Byshop reciteth out of S. Augustine howe and after what manner they denied their dealing in matters of religion and punishment of heretikes Whether they denyed it as you dâ—… that they should not dealing as supreme gouernours as punishers by their owne authoritie yea or no for this you denie Now that Princes had and tâ—…ke vpon them and oughte to haue this kinde of dealing the Bishop proued out of S. Augâ—…stine that magistrates and rulers â—…ught to reforme theÌ„ to reduce them to the vnitie of the Church and to represse their heresies with their authoritie and godly lawes made for that purpose to whoÌ„ it belonged of duetie and whose speciall seruice to Christ is to see care and prouide that their subiectes be gouerned and maynteined in the true and sincere religion of Christ without all errors superstitions and heresies This was the maner of the Princes dealing then with religion and this you now denie to Princes to deale on this wise â–ª And on this fashion saide the Donatistes The seculer Princes haue not to deale in matters of religion or causes eccl. That God committeth not the teaching of his people to kings but to Prophets Christ sent not souldiors but fishers to bring in and further his religion Pretending the ordering and disposing of all eccl. causes to be in the Clergie and by the Clergie they ment them selues As you do likewise when ye say heretikes
it may rather confounde for they confounde their offices turning Bishops not as it were into lay men but into lay men in deede What the Bishops wordes do meane is most playne to a man of meane witte that list not to Iangle about nothing neither the wordes importe any such meaning nor this is any thing in question the ministeriall office but the supreme gouernment which are two farre different things But since that to no purpose ye chalenge the B. for curtalling Eusebius words let vs behold how you do set them downe For thus say you he saith to the Bishops Vos quidem eorum quae intus sunt in Ecclesia agenda ego vero eorum qua extra sunt Episcopus à Deo sum constitutuâ—… You are Bishops saith he of those thinges that are to be done within the Church I am Bishop of outwarde thinges which answere of his may satisfie any reasonable man for all that ye bring in here of Constantine or all that ye shall afterwarde bring in which declareth him no supreme Iudge or chiefe determiner of causes Ecclesiasticall but rather the contrarie and that he was the ouerseer in ciuill matters And the most that may be enferred hereof is that he had the procuration and execution of Churche matters which I am assured all Catholikes will graunt Ye would faine I sée M. Stapl. reuoke your graunt and it could be cleanly conueyde or so to limite it that it might not appéere ye haue granted that that all your fellowes denie But this reuocation is to late Neuerthelesse fuli pretely ye compasse the matter to defeate all these most plaine not wordes but doings of Constantine by shoouing at this name B. shop in the Emperour which in any case ye caÌ„ not abide And therefore as who though B. went aboute to confounde the offices of a Bishop and of a Prince and thereto had concealed Eusebius words ye solemnly take on yâ—…n to set them out both in Latine and in English. But tell me by that false faith of yours M. Stapleton why ye haue not translated the wordes aright in English that ye haue set downe in Latine did ye sée in déede they made nothing for you but rather much against you is the English of intus in Ecclesia within the Church And the English of eorum quae extra Outward ciuill things or matters or Ego vero c. Episcopus à ' Deo sum constitutâ—… I am a Bishop what is manifest corruption of plaine wordes and euident sense if this be not this is past cutting of the tayle M. St. or slitting his nose and paring his eares to dresse it like a perfect curtall but euen to cutte both buttockes and heade away and make it a carrion karkasse this translating is trans I ordanem in déede But the wordes of Constantine the sense are plaine You saith he speaking to the spirituall pastours are Bishops of those thinges that in the Churche are to be done within or inwardly But I am appointed of God a Bishop of those things that are forthout or outwardly As who should say your Bishoply office in Gods Churche is in the ministeris of those things that worke inwardly that perce the heart enter into the soule cleaue the thoughtes in sunder and properly belong to the inwarde man the liuely worde of god My Bishoply office in Gods Churche is distinguished from this and is in things without that is in the outwarde setting forth and publique direction of Gods worde to be duly taught by you Thus both their offices were in Gods Church the matter and groundworke of both their Bishoprikes was Gods true religion But the doing of the one was pertayning to the inwarde man the doing of the other to the outwarde man. And this is the very distinctioÌ„ that Constantine maketh which being not falsely translated as you do and so misunderstoode may satisfie as ye say any reasonable man But your vnderstanding is very vnreasonable to vnderstand by inward things things ecclesiasticall and by outward things only ciuill things in déede they be out and quite out of the consideration of the Churche But wherefore then called he him selfe a Bishop also with them yea an vniuersall Bishop as Eusebius termeth him but to declare that his ouersighte was in the same matter that was theirs the matter was Gods truth and Religion in bothe the manner was outwarde or inwarde as eithers Bishoprike required Otherwise if he had meant onely of ciuill matters as you expounde he had bene no more a Bishop thereby than the very Soldane or great Turke or any other Heathen Prince that ouersee their ciuill matters very circumspectly And so as ye did in your fourth Chapter ye make Constantine for all these notable things in him that your selfe before haue graunted no better than an infidell Prince in this behalfe For by outward ye say is meant ciuill matters But the ciuill gouernement ye say also reacheth no furder than the peoples quietnesse wealth abundance and prosperouse maintenance that these thinges are common as well to the heathen as to the Christian gouernment Thinke ye M. Stapleton these Fathers meant no furder gouernment nor in other matters than these when they called Constantine an vniuersall Bishop and that Constantine measured his office no furder when he called him selfe by the name of a Bishop â–ª for shame M. Stapleton deface not to Christian a Prince after so Turkish a manner nor thereto so manifestly falsifie your authour nor abuse your reader with such a shamelesse impudence Well say you And the moste that may be inferred thereof is that he had the procuration and execution of Churche matters which I am assured all Catholikes will graunt May we be assured M. Stapleton on your worde that all your popish Catholikes will graunt euen thus much For I verily feare they will graunt it no furder than it pleaseth them And where ye are so readie to assure vs of others graunts what assurance haue we had alreadie of all your owne liberall graunts when ye were disposed to wrangle as now againe ye do for how agreeth this euen with your former graunt that Princes might make lawes and constitutions for the furtherance of Christes religion that Princes might take some regiment vppon them in Ecclesiasticall causes yea might do as much as all these ensamples specifie and that now ye make the most to be but the procuration and execution of Church matters Although what ye meane by these wordes ye tell not would ye haue them onely the Churches that is as you meane by the Churche onely the Priests proctours and executioners now truly ye limite them a full faire office But thinke ye the name of B. and vniuersall B. did importe nothing els was that the most that may be inferred thereof and yet that is more than onely to be their executioner as ye said before to be as ye adde here to it their proctour also Yea it is
mightie defences That which was pulled downe thou haste made vp agayne and haste made the same whole and sounde agayne with a conuenient knitting togither of all the partes and members To be shorte thou haste saythe Nicephorus to the Emperour established true religion and godlynesse with spirituall butresses namely the doctrine and rules of the auncient fathers These are the Bishops allegations out of Nicephorus for this Princes dealing in ecclesiastical matters Wherin are comprehended as eche man may sée all the chiefe ecclesiasticall causes The true religion the sincere fayth the diuine doctrine godlynesse making constitutions the fathers rules the catholike vniuersal church Neither ascribeth he to the Prince herein a power LegaÌ„tine froÌ„ Priest Byshop Patriarke or Pope muche lesse to be their onely executioner but vnder God he giueth him a supreme gouernement in calling him not onely the defender but the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay the guyde the restorer the clenser the establisher the entrencher and maker vp of all these things On the contrarie the puller downe and banisher of newe deuises counterfeit naughtie vnlawfull and impure doctrines of horrible errors and heretical deprauers And this his chief dealing herein to be most seemely for him and chiefly belonging to his princely office Dothe all this M. Stap. little or nothing further our cause if it doe not then it lyttle or nothing hindreth yours Why graunte ye not then vnto it if ye graunte but thus muche we wil vrge you little or nothing further for what is not héere conteined that is either conteined in the issue betwéene the Bishop and M. Feck or in the othe of the O. Maiesties supremacie that ye refuse to take But as light as yâ—… would séeme to make of this it pincheth you and ye dare not grauÌ„t nor answere any sentence therof Onely ye giue a snatche at a worde and bayte at the bishops marginal note vpoÌ„ these former allegatioÌ„s Wherin ye play like Alciates dogge at whom when one hurled a stone he let go him froÌ„ whom the stone came wreaked his anger on the stone So set you vpon the marginall note that in déede hitteth you a good souse but the allegations from wheÌ„ce the marginal note doth come ye let alone and fal to tugging of the note Only as I saide ye snatche at a word as though all the weight of the marginall note were setched only from thence and not from all these sentences But say you M. Home will not so leese his long allegation out of Nicephorus He hath placed a note in the margine sufficient â—… trow to conclude his principall purpose And that is this The Princes supremacie in repayring religion decayed This is indeede a ioly marginall note But where findeth M Horne the same in his text for soothe of this that Nicephorus calleth the Emperour the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay in so horrible wauering c. of the worde supreme anchor he concludeth a supremacie But O more than childishe follie Coulde that craftie Cooper of thys allegation informe you no better master Horne was he no better seene in Grammer or in the profession of a schole master than thus foully and fondely to misse the true interpretation of the Latine worde for what other is suprema anchora in good Englishe than the laste anchor the laste refuge the extreme holde and staye to rest vpon As suprema verba doe signifie the laste wordes of a man in hys laste wyll as summa dies the laste daye supremum iudicium the laste iudgement with a number of lyke Phrases So suprema anchora is the laste anchor signifying the laste holde and staye as in the perill of tempeste the laste refuge is to caste anchor In suche a sense Nicephorus calleth this Emperour the laste the mightie and the holy anchor or stay in so horrible wauering and errour Signifying that nowe by him they were stayed from the storme of schisme as from a storme in the sea by casting the anchor the shippe is stayed But by the metaphore of an anchor to conclude a supremacie is as wyse as by the Metaphore of a Cowe to conclude a Saddle For as well dothe a saddle fitte a Cowe as the qualitie of an anchor resemble a supremacie But by suche beggerly shiftes a barren cause muste be vpholded First all is saide by the way of amplification to extoll the Emperour as in the same sentence he calleth him the sixt element reaching aboue Aristotels fifte body ouer the foure elementes with suche lyke Then all is but a Metaphore which were it true proueth not nor concludeth but expresseth and lightneth a truth Thirdly the Metaphore is ill translated and last of all worsse applied A sirra M. St. héere is a whot sturre and highe wordes A man would thinke all is nowe answered to the full and yet when all coÌ„mes to all héere is nothing of all this a do agaynst any one sentence of the Byshops allegations But the poore marginall note and one poore séelie worde of all these long allegations shall abye for this geare First ye say M. Stapl. that M. Horne will not so leese his long allegation out of Nicephorus What ye meane by leesing I know not But it appeareth he may leâ—…e or finde them all for any thing ye wil answere to them Ye slinke for the nonce to the marginall note which is this The Princes supremacie in repayring religion decayed This is in deede say you a ioly marginal note but where findeth M. Horne the same in his texte forsoothe of this that Nicephorus calleth the Emperour the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay in so horrible wauering of the worde supreme anchor he concludeth a supremacie Is there nothing M. Stap. in all these allegations that ye coulde sée wherfore the Bishop set downe his marginal note of the Princes supremacie in repayring religion decayed but onely this sentence yea onely that worde do not all the other sentences importe as muche as this that he is the guyde of the profession of our fayth the restorer of the catholike and vniuersall Church the banisher from the Church of all vnlawful and impure doctrine the clenser of the temple with the worde of truth froÌ„ choppers and changers of the diuine doctrine and from hereticall deprauers thereof That he is the entrencher of true religion with mightie defences That he is the establisher of the doctrine and maker of constitutions for the same that he is the maker vp agayne the maker whole and sounde agayne of al that was pulled downe Might not all this to an indifferent reader be thought sufficient to answere the marginal note and comprehende in all poyntes as muche as the note yea though ye quite set aside the sentence and word wherat ye wrangle And yet with M. Stap. this one sentence must beare the weight of all that the bishop alleaged the mightie supreme and very holy anchor and stay in so
gouernment in Church causes as the Queenes Maiestie taketh vpon hir of dutie to belong to ciuill magistrates he concludeth ther vpoÌ„ by these two parts of the request so satisfied that they may and ought to take the same vpon them Which done he promiseth to enter into the other twaine to proue the same by the continuall practise of like gouernment in some one part of Christendome and by the generall Councels To this answereth M St. Hitherto ye haue not brought any one thing to the substaÌ„tial proufe of your purpose worth a good straw neither Scripture nor Doctor nor Emperour This is a short aunswere indéede as if Iacke Strawe had made it and not a student of diuinitie All is not worthe a strawe with you Such was the iudgement of Esops dunghill Cocke when he found the precious stone Haue ye done nothing master Stapleton but scraped strawes though you estéeme better of your owne doings wherevpon as it were an other Chaunticlere ye crâ—…we and crake so often yet set not so little by the doings of other men and thâ—…se that are farre your betters But what are the Bishops proues the lesse worth for this your strawish iudgement Your bolt M. St. is soone shotte but a raylers tongue is they say no slaunder Let others iudge that haue more iudgement what the Bishops proues amount vnto And let them iudge euen by this your Counterblast that ye haue blowne out agaynst these proues to ouerturne them Which had they bene as light as a strawe ye might haue easily done and neuer haue puffed vp such a stormie Counterblast But let them iudge what your Counterblast hath done and whether ye haue blown away so much as one straw bredth from the matter one proufe of al the Bishops proufes But least I should also be like to you I remit the iudgement of the whole to other yea in Gods name to any of your owne side that with any indifferencie will examine both Ye quarell further at the least to blemish the Bishop with suspition of heresie saying Among your foure Emperors by you named ye haue iugled in one that was a starke Heretike but as subtilly as yee thought ye had handled the matter ye haue not so crastily conueyde your galles but that you are espied Ye haue told vs of this often inough master Stapleton if that would helpe you though ye tolde it not so Iuglerlike as now although with as much bitternesse of gall as euer y Iugler or sorcerer SimoÌ„ Magus had With Heretike starke Heretike wretched Heretike c. But ye neuer tell how the Bishop cited him For were he Heretike or were he not as it is a question by Saint Augustines definition of an Heretike yet in that point that the Bishop cited him ye can proue him no Heretike But whatsoeuer he were the B. is clearely discharged to your owne shame and to all your doctors of Louaine where ye learne your good diuinitie And this is al that ye haue to say to the Bishops proues hitherto Now to that he promiseth to enter into the residue there is yet one thing that after all your raylings ye coÌ„mend him for Yet for one thing say you are ye here to be commended that now you woulde seeme to frame vs a certaine fixed state of the matter to be debated vpoÌ„ and to the which you would seeme to direct your proufes that ye will bring And therein you deale with vs better than hitherto ye haue done seeming to seke by dark generalities as it were corners to lusk lurk in Neither yet here walk ye so plainly and truly as you would seeme but in great darknesse with a sconce of dimme light that the readers should not haue the clere view sight of the right way ye should walk in whoÌ„ with this your darke sconce ye lead far awry For thus you frame vs the state of the questioÌ„ These are but wordes M. Stap. to spend time and fil paper Ye know best your owne practises Ye tell vs before hand the Bishop will do so Tell vs so when ye come to it It séemeth he mindeth it not euen by your owne confession prefixing a state of the matter to be debated vpoÌ„ to direct his proues vnto This is not the way of one that would luâ—…ke or lurke with darke sconces in corners nor the B hitherto hath gone thus to work it is one of your ordinarie slaunders his proues are euident name one that is not directed to the issue set betwene him M. Feck that fully proueth it not but that sconce of your own hath left no corner vnsought to â—…usk and lurke in and to lead the Reader about the bush as besides this your common place of impertinent matters will for the most part declare The. 27. Diuision THe B. hauing proued his issue by the two forsaid parts the scriptures the Doctors being entred into the other twaine the Councels the practise since the issue requireth the proofe of Any such gouernement as the Q maiestie now taketh vpon hir the B. first expresseth hir Maiesties gouernment theron according to the issue maketh his generall state to leuell his proues vnto the B. words are these The gouernement that the Q. Maiestie most iustly taketh vpon hir in ecclesiasticall causes is the guiding caring prouiding ordering and ayding the ecclesiasticall state within hir dominions to the furtherance maintenance and setting foorth of true religion vnitie and quietnesse of Christes Church ouerseeing visiting refourming restrayning amending and correcting all maner persons with all maner errors superstitions heresies schismes abuses offences contemptes and enormities in or about Christes religion whatsoeuer This same authoritie rule and gouernement was practised in the catholyke Church by the most Christian kings and Emperours approued confirmed commended by the best Councels both generall and Nationall The effect of M. Stapletons aunswere to this is all against the state of the question that the Bishop here setteth downe and is diuided chiefly into thrée pointes In the first he chalengeth the bishop to alter the state of the question in hande and setteth himselfe downe another state to the which he woulde haue the Bishop direct his prooues Secondly he trauayleth to show that the Bishop concealed two clauses of the statute that should chiefly haue expressed the state and what inconuenience may insue thereby Thirdly he alleageth the excuses of the Papists for refusing the othe In his first part being deducted into these two members to quarell at the Bishops state and to set vp his own for the former thus sayth M. Stapleton Here is a state framed of you M. Horne but fane square from the question in hande For the question is not nowe betwene M. Feckenham and you whether the Prince may visit reforme and correct all maner of persons for all maner of heresies and schismes and offences in Christian religion which perchance in some sense might somwhat be borne withall
if ye meane by this visitation the outward execution of the Church lawes and decrees confirmed by the ciuill magistrate roborated with hisedicts and executed with his sword For in such sort many Emperors Princes haue fortified streÌ„gthned the decrees of Bishops made in Councels both general National as we shall in the processe see And this in christian Princes is not denied but coÌ„mended What the state of the question in hande is the reader hath often hearde How be it such is your importunitie that ye will neuer leaue your olde warbling But for the full satisfying of the Reader berein let him once againe resort to the issue that M. Feck requireth of the bishop to direct all hys foure meanes vnto wherin he would be satisfied And that is conteyned in these flat wordes VVhen your L. shall be able by any of these foure meanes to make proofe vnto me that any Emperour or Empresse King or Queene may claime or take vpon them any such gouernment in spirituall or ecclesiasticall causes I shall herein yeelde c. This then is the state of the question betwéen theÌ„ whether any Prince may take vpon him any such gouernment in spirituall or ecclesiasticall causes as the Queenes Maiestie doth Now wheresoeuer the B. proueth anything by the foure fore said meanes that any Prince hath taken vpon him any such gouernement as doth the Queenes Maiestie in causes ecclesiasticall there the bishop kéepeth himselfe to the state of the question in hande and satisfieth M. Fecknams issue What the bishop hath done in the two foresaide meanes is euident by that that is past let others iudge thereon Here the B. entring into the other two meanes prefixeth this issue againe before him to leuell his proues by The issue is now that by any of these two meanes remayning he shall proue that anye Prince may claime or take vpon him any such gouernment as the Queenes Maiestie in Ecclesiasticall matters doth And where the B. by any of these two meanes shall proue that any Princes haue taken â—…pon them any such gouernment in ecclesiasticall matters as the Q. Maiestie doth there the B. digresseth nothing from his question also satisfieth M. Feck â–ª demaunde This then being the state of the question betwéene them the proofe of any such gouernment in ecclesiasticall causes the B. first setteth here down the particulars that plainly declare what gouernment this is that the Q. Maiestie taketh on hir wherto he must direct his proues So that now that question in hande is this What is that gouernment in what particulars consisteth it that the Q. maiestie taketh on hir Which when here the B. doth specifie in the last Chapter M. Stapl. himselfe commended the bishop for his orderly going to worke therein and now crieth out here is a state framed farre square from the question in had whether it be so or no whether it be not plain dealing of the B. and plain warbling of M. St. let any man be indifferent iudge betwéene them But M. Stapl. sayth the question is not nowe betweene M. Feck and you whether the Prince may visite reforme and correct all maner of persons for all maner of schismes heresies and offences in Christian religion True in déede M. St. the question is not nowe whether the Prince may doe these things that you rehearse or no but the question that is nowe in hand being deducted out of the words of the issue any such gouernment demaundeth first what kinde of gouernment that is that the Q. maiestie doth claime and take vpon hir to the which question the B. aunswereth the gouernment that hir highnesse taketh on hir is such and such c. And so the state of the question is knowne what kinde of gouernment the B. must proue And looke where he proueth any such gouernment there M. Feckenhams request is aunswered And if he can not prooue any such then M. Feckenham may complaine that he is not satisfied And as he is bounde to performe his promise of thankfull yéelding so haue you no cause to warble at this the B. diligent enumeration of those particularities of the principal question least both ye should wander in an obscure generalitie also coÌ„trarie your late vaunt that ye go to worke plainly truly and particularly But sée your falshoode how chaunce ye set not downe the Bishops wordes as he spake them but abridge them 〈◊〉 of thrée parts of them and more crying Here is a state framed farre square from the question in hande Here is a false subtiltie of you M. St. farre square from any truth in hand or out of hande The Bishops wordes are these The gouernment that the Q. Maiestie moste iustly taketh vpon hir in eccles causes is the guiding caring prouiding ordering directing and ayding the ecclesiasticall state within hir dominions to the furtherance maintenance and setting forth of true religion vnitie and quietnesse of Christes Church ouerseeing visiting refourming restrayning amending and correcting all maner persons with all maner errours superstitions heresies schismes abuses offences contemptes and enormities in or about Christes religion whatsoeuer In place of all these wordes euery one béeing materiall to shewe the particular things wherein hir gouernment consisteth that she claymeth you onely for all these set downe these wordes The Prince may visite reforme and correcte all maner of persons for all maner of heresies schisines and offences in Christian religion As though the Bishops particular words specifying the poynts of hir gouernmeÌ„t conteined no more but this Neuerthelesse had the bishop specified no more but these words that ye thus contracte yet had he not swarued from the issue betweene them Any suche gouernment nor from the directâ—… answering to the question declaring any suche gouernment chiefly the chiefe poynts therof that the Quéenes maiestie claymeth and you refuse to yéelde vnto hir For euen these particularities that you set out ye will not graunte without an exception and that is in effecte vtterly to denie them althoughe in daliaunce of spéeche saying in some sense ye would onely séeme to mollifie them For what else meane these your words VVhich perchaunce in some sense might somewhat be borne withall if ye meane by this visitation and reformation the outwarde execution of the Churche lawes and decrees confirmed by the ciuill magistrate roborated with his edicts and executed with his sworde for in suche sorte many Emperours and Princes haue fortified and strengthened the decrees of Byshops made in Councels bothe generall and nationall as we shall in the processe see And this in Christian Princes is not denied but commended Christian Princes haue héere gotten afaire catche by this your graunt and commendation to become your seruants your souldiours your slaughtermen only executing with their swords that you with your authoritie decrée and appoint vnto them Now forsooth a fayre supreme authoritiâ—… But let vs sée how this doth hang togither Ye graunt theÌ„ to visite reforme
of the othe or statute Why say you they all appertaine not to the inferiour ministerie whiche ye graunt to Priests and Bishops only but to the supreme iurisdiction and gouernement which you doe annexe to the Prince only In déede these thinges you make to appertayne to youre Pope to whome ye giue such supreme iurisdiction and gouernement as annexeth all this to his papal authoritie But ye doe wickedly herein and iniurie to our sauiour Christe to whom only such supreme iurisdiction and gouernment belongeth and vnder whome the inferiour ministers maye do these things not as they please but as he hathe prescribed them The Iurisdiction and authoritie appertaineth onely to ministers bishops or priestes as ye call them To whome herein we doe not as ye sclaunder vs graunt only an Inferiour ministerie but euen an higher ministerie than wée giue to Princes In their spirituall ministration they are higher ministers but in gouerning them ouerséeing them directing punishing maynteyning placing or displacing them as they shall do their dueties well or yll the Prince therein is higher than they and his gouernement vnder God is supreme and chiefe in all suche causes as belongeth to the Ecclesiasticall persons or any other in his territories This is that the statute ascribeth and the othe requireth farre from youre malicious and sclaunderous slate of the question that you haue here deuised Whiche as ye say the truthe therein the Bishop proueth not for it is no part for him to proue But that this is the â—…slue he fully preueth Yea and proueth the full contentes of the Othe also to the whyche ye woulde so fayne driue the question nowe in hande After ye haue thus sette vp a false and wrong state and quarelled at the verie state of the question in hande playnly and truely set downe by the Bishop ye enter into your second part wherin prefixing an other marginal note Master Hornes dissembling falsehood ye chalenge the B. to omit two clauses of the statute the one at the beginning therof the other at the ende The former is this That no foraine person shall haue any maner of authoritie in any spirituall cause within this realme By whiche wordes is flatly excluded saye you all the authoritie of the whole bodie of the Catholike Churche without the realme as in a place more conuenient towardes the ende of the laste booke it shall by Gods grace be euidently proued If that be a place more conuenient why doe ye anticipate it here not so conueniently where it appertayneth not to the question in hand The Bishop now medleth not with that parcell that excludeth all foraine authoritie but onely with that parte that expresseth what manner of authoritie it is that the Quéenes Maiestie taketh vpon hir And this the Bishop playnely and faithefully dothe not here intermedlyng with other pointes of the statute But where that conuenient occasion is there ye shall sée the Bishop touch that that here ye call for And there a Gods name answere hym if ye can But your fingers itched ye coulde not holde youre hande but néedes ye muste euen nowe haue a fling thereat for a farewell Althoughe therein ye proprely ouertourne youre selfe and yet to make somewhat of the matter yée playe all the false playe yée can For where the Statute mencioneth onely anye forraine persone to haue no authoritie you conclude that it excludeth all the authoritie of the whole bodye of the Catholike Churche withoute the Realme Where as there the Statute mencioneth not the catholike Churche at all And besides who séeth not a great difference betwéene these twayne any persons authoritie and the whole bodies authoritie And who séeth not withall that if England be a parcell and membre of the whole bodie of the Catholike Churche of Christe and all the membres make one vnited bodie then neither is the whole bodie foraine to the members thereof nor the particular membres foraine to the whole bodie Nor in déede any parte of this mysticall bodie is excluded But in that respect that one countreyman is foraine to an other suche foraine authoritie of any foraine person is thereby excluded But in regarde of the bodye of the Catholike churche if ye meane Christes holie Catholike Churche there is neyther Iew nor Gréeke Scythian nor Barbarian nor any forayne Countreyman we are no straungers and forainers but Citizens of the Saintes and of the householde of God and all compacte in Christe nor any is excluded oute of this Churche if he be in and of this Churche bycause he is not forayne And where ye saye the whole bodie of the Churche without the Realme youre wordes implie a contradiction to themselues For if the realme be a parcell of the bodie of the churche whiche perchaunce you will denye or if the realme be a parcell of the bodie of the Churche whyche you wyll not denie then that which is without the realme is not the whole bodie as ye call it But lettyng this goe what is that authoritie be it of the most part or be it as you saâ—… of the whole bodie of the Churche without the realme that ye would haue the realme allowe If it be the verie Catholike church of Christe then is it also the wyfe and spouse of Christ and hath no authoritie to make any faith doctrine or religion besides that hir husband hath appointed neyther England Fraunce Germanie Italy Spayne or any other parte or all the whole bodie of this spouse hath authoritie to doe it And looke what parte doth not this or presumeth to doe otherwise becommeth foraine and as foraine is cut off euen as a rotten and putrified member seuered from the bodie Euery braunche sayth Christ that beareth not fruite in me my father will cut it away But if this authoritie be for such ecclesiastical discipline as Christ hath giuen therof no expresse coÌ„maundement then euery seuerall part may receyue or not receyue the same and yet is not estranged or made forrain from the whole corps of Christendome yea though the most parte of the churche besides authorised and vsed the same But euery particular Churche hath in it selfe authoritie to establish orderly suche disciplines as shall be thought best and fittest for their estate and yet is there no diuision or schisme from the whole thereby But sith ye referre your selfe to a more conuenient place where ye say it shall by Gods grace be euidently proued it is not much conuenient to stand any more hereon sith it is here but accessorie and ye confesse your self that ye doe not but ye will hereafter by Gods grace proue it euidently But I doubt me of two things the one of your euident prouing therof the other that ye will doe the same by the grace of God the dooing wherof is agaynst the grace of God. The other clause saye you you omitte at the ende of the statute whiche is this That all maner superiorities that haue or may lawfully be exercised
tâ—…cet consentire videtur for he that holdeth his peace seemeth to consent Howbeit I crie you mercie the case is altered For there ye defend your client here ye oppugne your aduersarie And belike ye haue some priuiledge from Rome euer to turne the matter so as may best serue your turne But and it were not for this your priuiledge surely I woulde further aske ye howe chaunce so soone ye haue forgotten your late vaunt and euen in this leafe wherin ye crake that ye walke not in generall wordes but restrayne your selfe to particulars now stande quarrelling about the generall words of the statute and mocke the B. for particulars if ye shalâ—… laye forth your priuiledge to doe this when ye thinke ye may get some aduauntage thereby yet I thinke your priuiledge stretcheth not both to wrest the state of the question in hande and of the issue to the statute and to wrest and belâ—…e the statute as ye please and thereof to gather what false conclusion ye lyst For first ye do the Bishop wrong â—…th Maister Feckenham hath set vp his issue to be prooued Anye suche gouernement in Ecclesiasticall causes to driue the bishop from thence to the wordes of the statute that expresse it in all ecclesiasticall causes Herein ye offer the bishop wrong For by this issue betwéene them though the Bishop in euery Prince continually alleage not ensamples in euery Ecclesiasticall cause but nowe and then in all nowe and then in some for your Popes daily encroched on Princes and at length got the mâ—…st of all yet hath the Bishop proued and satisfied the vertue of this issue Any such gouernment in ecclesiasticall causes Howbeit ye do him further wrong to chalenge him here for leauing out any poynt of gouernment in any Ecclesiasticall cause that euen the statute giueth hir maiestie that is to say A supreme gouernement in all things and causes Doth not the bishop set downe this M. St hath he not specified euen the same wordes oftentimes already and doth not his particular specifications coÌ„teine as much here also Nâ—… say you he leaueth out the principall cause ecclesiasticall and most necessarie meete and conuenient for a supreme gouernor Ecclesiasticall Soft M. St. stay here or euer we demaund what this cause should be I demaunde only now why ye say supreme gouernour Ecclesiasticall is this your honestie in handling the statute doth the Quéene take vpon hir to be a supreme gouernor Ecclesiasticall or doth the statute giue this title to hir maiestie A supreme gouernor Ecclesiasticall the statute saith A supreme gouernor in all Ecclesiastical causes â–ª And is there no differeÌ„ce betwene an ecclesiastical gouernor a gouernor in eccles causes but you vse this your false captious speach to make that people beleue the slaÌ„der that ye raise on hir Maiesty as though she toke vpon hir to bean ecclesiasticall person to be a B. and a minister of the worde sacraments and by hir chiefe gouernmeÌ„t ouer bishops chalenged to be a chief or head bishop of Bishops like vnto your Pope And so hauing raised vp this slauÌ„der on the Quenes maiestie the statute ye chalenge the Bishop for omitting a principall ecclesiastical cause But what is that you aske forsooth iudgement say you determining and approuing of doctrine which is true and good and which is otherwise Here againe M. Stapl. ye speake as captiously for if by this iudgement ye meane an authoritie aboue the doctrine of Gods worde as all your side maintaineth that the word of God receyueth his authoritie of the Churches iudgement â–ª which Church ye call the Priestes and is authenticall bicause they haue ratified it so to be otherwise it were not true nor good then in déede as the Bishop hath set downe no such iudgement determining or approuing of doctrine neyther so coulde he haue done for the Quéenes Maiestie â—…keth no such supreme gouernement vpon hir nor such supreme gouernement is due to any other than to God alone who hath by Iesus Christ his sonne already fully determined in his holy worde what doctrine is good and true â–ª And what doctrine soeuer is besides that is neyther true nor good whosoeuer take vpon him to iudge determine and approue the same be it eyther your Pope or your Church neuer so much yea were it an angell from heauen â—…e must 〈◊〉 helde accursed But if ye meane by iudging determining and approuing of doctrine such authority as only acknowledgeth giueth testimonie admitteth alloweth setteth forth and strengthneth the doctrine of Christes onely worde not aâ—… ruler ouer it but as seruant vnto it and the reiecting or abolishing of all other doctrine against or besides that wordâ—… then hath the bishop not left out this ecclesiasticall cause in the statute though not iudging in that maner that the ecclesiasticall gouernour Bishop or Minister doth in his sermons or debating thereon but for so much as belongeth to a supreme gouernour And so sayth the bishop The gouernment that the Queenes Maiestie most iustly taketh on hir in ecclesiasticall causes is the guiding caring prouiding ordering directing and ayding the eccl. state within hir dominions to the furtherance maintenance and setting foorth of true religion buitie and quietnesse of Christes Church visiting reforming restrayning amending and correcting all maner persons with all maner errours superstitions heresies schisâ—…es abuses offences contempts and enormities in or about Christes religion whatsoeuer Marke these words a little better M. Stap. and I trust you shall sée it was you that ouershot your selfe and lefte out good attention béeing caried away in a cocke brayne â—…ume with too hastie a preiudice And that the bishop left out héere no part of such iudgement determination and approuing of doctrine which is true and good which is otherwise as belongeth to suche a supreme gouernour as groundeth himselfe on Gods iudgement â–ª determining and approbation What do ye thinke is true religion no good doctrine with you If it be the bishop hath not omitted it Can he care and prouide for it direct and set it foorth without iudgement without the determining of it to be good and true without the approbation of it On the other side are errours and heresies no false nor naughtie doctrine with you if they be then the bishop named them and thinke ye the visiting reforming restrayning amending and correcting can be without a iudgement and determination agaynst them Then sithe he in playne spéeche ascribeth all this to the Prince which fully answereth all this that ye call for if as I sayd ye vnderstande this iudgement determining and approuing a right ye shewe what a very continuall wrangler ye be where no cause at all is giuen But incontinent ye declare what ye meane by this iudgement of doctrine For what say you is more necessarie in the Churche than that the supreme gouernour therof shoulde haue power in all doubtes and controuersies to decide the truthe and
he was a good king in ouerséeing the Priestes do their dueties and not him selfe intruding into the doing of their duties But of this exaÌ„ple we haue heard somwhat already in answering master Stapleton and we shal haue more agayne in M. Saunders fourth Chapter and therfore I reserue my selfe to the larger answere of it To this he addeth an Item of Iosaphat saying Itemque c. And also Iosaphat the king of Iuda distinguishing both powers sayde to the Leuites and the Priests Amarias the Priest and your Bishop stil gouerne in those things that perteine to god Moreouer Zabadias the sonne of Ismaell who is the captayne in the house of Iuda shal be ouer those workes that perteyne to the office of the king Beholde other thinges perteyne to the office of the Bishop and other to the the kinges office This we haue beholden alreadie in Master Stapletons obiection of the same and there may you M. Saunders beholde the answere And thus muche agayne for the vse of both these powers Now thirdly for the end therof saith M. Saunders Of the ende of both powers not the last but the middle ende that the ciuill power toucheth nought but this lyfe Christ saith Feare not theÌ„ that kil the body but they can not kill the soule And agayne the Apostle willeth vs to pray for kings those that are in authoritie that we may hue a quiet and peaceable life A quiet life therefore is the last ende of the ciuill power dwelling without the Churche But of that which is in the Church it is not the last but yet the proper ende it is VVhyle in the meane time the eccl. power belongeth to the lyfe to come as Christ hath sayde whatsoeuer ye lose on earth shall be loosed in heauen To this distinction of the endes of these powers I answere it is false not only the laste ende as he graunteth but the meaner endes also of the ciuill power in the church of Christ stretche further than this lyfe I appeale to the Princes institution and office Deuter. 17. I appeale to all the doings of the godly Kings Iudges and ciuill magistrates described in the scripture I appeale to Constantine the great that thought religion to be the chiefe ende of hys gouernment Yea I appeale to the places that euen héere M. Sanders citeth for his purpose â–ª manifestly wresting â—… mayming that of S. Paule to Timothie For he sayth not onely Ut quietam tranquillam vitam agaâ—…us That we may leade a quiet and peaceable life and there endeth but he addeth further withall in omni pietate honestate in all godlynesse honestie In which two words chiefly al godlinesse what is included is at large declared against master Stapleton But before this place M. Sanders citeth the testimonie of Christ that the prince can do no more but kill the body I answere Christe makes not the proper ende of the Princes power to kill the body but rather as you said before out of S. Paule to saue it To kill it is an accidentall tude of his power yet Iwisse Christ spake not there onlye of ciuil Princes but as muche agaynst the tyrannie of the highe Priests or any other that woulde persecute the ministers of Christ to death as your Pope you his chaplaynes do But I pray you M. sand may not an ill Prince wrest his authoritie to destroy the soule also with maynteyning Idolatrie false religion In déede he can not kill the soule for properly it can not be killed But that kind of killing that the soule may suffer which is sinne and damnation the rewarde of sinne with the one striken of the deuil by malice and wounded of him selfe by errour with theother striken of God by Iustice and deserued of him selfe by sinne may not the ill Prince make his power be a meane therto and may not an ill priest on this wise kill the soule as wel and sooner than he I wot what your pope Pius 2. was wont to say Malâ—… medâ—…ci corpus imperiti sacerdotes animam oâ—…cîdunt Ill Phisitions kil the body but vnskilfull Priests kill the soule You say your power stretcheth to the life to come In déede M sand the true eccl. power stretcheth to the life to come I feare me yours doth stretch to life as ye say but not to come but onely to the present life of the body but to death of body and soule both nowe and to come for euer Besides al this I appeale euen to your owne selfe M. sand that affirme the ciuil power in the church of Christ to stretch to farre further more proper endes thaÌ„ this life for in your fourth chapter folowing ye haue this quotation Christianâ—…rum regna leâ—…ularia non sunt Christian kingdomes are not worldly Wheron ye haue these words Moreouer the kingdomes of the faythfâ—…ll Princes whose people feare â–ª God are not altogither earthly or worldly for in that parte that they haue beleeued in Chryst they haue as it were lefte to be of the worlde and haue begonne to be members of the eternall kingdome For although the outwarde face of thinges which is founde in kingdomes meere secular be in a Christian kingdome Yet sithe the spirite of man is farre the moste excellent parte of him and the whole spirite acknowledgeth Christ his king and onely Lorde I see nothing why Christian kingdomes ought not to be rather iudged spirituall according to their better parte than earthly And this is the cause why now so long since those which gouerned the people of God were wont to be anointed of his ministers no otherwise than were the Prophetes and Priests For euen the kings them selues also are after a sort â–ª partakers of the spiritual ministerie wheÌ„ they are anoynted Not that they shoulde do those thinges that are committed to the onely priestes hereto orderly consecrated but that those thinges whiche other kinges referre to a prophane and worldly ende these kinges shoulde nowe remember that they ought to directe to an holy ende For when they them selues are meere spirituall it is fitte that they shoulde wyll that all their thinges shoulde also be accounted as it were spirituall Loe M. Saunders in these wordes ye confesse farre other proper endes and farre other estates also in the ciuill power of Christian Princes than this lyfe of the body and the quiet tranquillitie therof And therfore what néede further witnesse when your selfe are not onely contrarie to your selfe but also beare witnesse agaynst your selfe Now wheÌ„ M. Sanders hath thus prosecuted these three differences of these two estates he collecteth his conclusion saying But if the ecclesiasticall power differ from the ciuill in the originall in the vse and in the ende and so well the beginning of the ecclesiasticall power as the vse and ende is farre the more worthy shall they not of wise men be iudged mad which either confounde these powers
earthly in this respect as M. Saunders him selfe confesseth neither bathe he the gouernement of the Churche which is dispersed in many kingdomes but is a gouernour of a parte therof or of some particular Churche Nowe when M. Saunders hath thus proued as he thinketh the imperfection of the olde lawe saying And thuâ—… should these thinges be if in the olde time the kinges of the Iewes had exercised any chiefe power in ecclesiasticall matters and ouer the Bishops He turneth him selfe on the other side to the flat deniall of this which in the answere to our first obiection he flatly graunted and fled then to thyâ—… shifte that the case was altered But nowe sayth he neither is it true that the Kinges of the Iewes were counted greater than the Priestes of the Leuiticall kinde in administring those thinges that pertayned to ecclesiasticall matters whiche by peece meale I will not be greeâ—…ed to shewe It will not greeue you to tell a lye M. Saunders but to tell the truthe it woulde be a greefe vnto you Where dyd we say that the Kings of the Iewes were counted greater than the Priests in administring those thinges that pertayned to ecclesiasticall matters But go too let vs sée what peecemeale proues you bring And firste saye you Moyses commaunded that after the King was sette in the seate of hys kingdome hee shoulde wryte oute for him selfe in a volume another copâ—…e of this lawe â–ª taking the copie of the Priestes of the â—…euiticall Tribe But if not onely other but the king also him selfe muste go to the Priests for writing out of the lawe how was the king the prince in interpreting the lawe the copie whereof he was compelled to craue of other was he not herein admonished that he should remember that the priests were his superiours in those things that pertayned to the law for as euery Magistrate crauing the sworde of the king receiuing it doth in so doing declare the king in the right of the sword to be greater than him selfe after the same sorte is it when the king receyueth of the Pristes the copie of the diuine law Is this the copie of your piece meale proues M. Sand he that should take a copie of your argumentes might per haps haue néede but God wot shoulde finde full slender stuffe in them This argument is copied out of Stapleton and your other collectors and is already answered Which if it were good bycause the Prince taketh the copie of the lawe from the Priest therefore in the gouernment of matters pertayning to the lawe the Priest is aboue the Prince then is the Register aboue the Chauncelor the Bishop then is the Clarke aboue the Stewarde and the Prince bicause he hath the kéeping of the recordes And this is a more like example than that you bring in of a Magistrate crauing and receyuing the sworde of the king for in this example the King hath not onely the kéeping of the sworde but al the authoritie of and lawfull exercise of the sworde vnder God dependeth on him and suche as he will giue it vnto Wherfore he acknowleageth rightly the King to be his greater But in the lawe of God where the kinges gouernement is appoynted to him and by that appoyntment of God he hath interest in matters of the lawe of God by his kingly office and therefore must haue the lawe of God about him to directe his giuerment and hath not this interest authorie giuen him of the Priest as the subiect hathe the authoritie and exercise of the sworde giuen him of the king doth this argue a like that the Priest is superiour bicause he muste haue the kéeping of the lawe and the king that he may be sure he hath a true copie of Gods lawe muste haue it of the Priest Dothe the keeping argue the greater authoritie â–ª The king must haue the crowne of the kéeper of the crowne and the seale of the keeper of the seale is the keeper therefore the greater Nay it rather argueth althoughe in looking too that those thinges be well kepte and truely declared they haue a more especiall charge in their offices yet are they rather inferiours in that they haue for the kings behoofe the kéeping and deliuery of them And so the priest hathe an especiall charge of keeping and deliuering to the Prince the lawe of God bicause of his especiall vocation in the studie profession and administration of it Whiche argueth more cunning and learning of duetie to be looked for at his handes than at the Princes And therefore we ascribe not as you saye greater principalitie to Princes in the interpreting of the lawe of God. Princes commit that to the interpreters But to the Prince is committed a superiour charge of gouerning all persons to ouersee that the lawe of God be rightly interpreted and administred And for this cause the Prince oughte to haue the copie of the lawe not him selfe to interprete it and whereto then to lye idly by him no to gouerne him selfe and all his subiectes by the prescription of it After this he alleageth the examples of Moyses Samuell Iosue Dauid Salomon Constantius and Theodosius In Moyses and Samuell he hathe nothing that is not common To Iosue Dauid and Salomon he vseth Stapletons answeres and there is answered The examples of Constantius and Theodosius are somewhat already answered and shall be further God willing when we come to the practise And likewise to the Councels that he citeth The argument of the fourth Chapter That Christian Princes may be deposed from their estates by the Bishops and their kingdomes giuen to other when their gouernment hurteth the truth of the faith and the soules health whereto they are ordayned IN this 4 Chapter M. SauÌ„ders kepeth no perfect method and therfore we must follow him as he procéedeth First he maketh two kinds of men the earthly man and the heauenly man and so likewise two kingdoms the one earthly the other heauenly The earthly kingdome choseth their king by humaine consent as Nimrod c. Of the heauenly kingdom that Christ hath in the earth Christ is the king Who although by the worthinesse of his nature he be king of all men yet is he called onely the king of the faithfull Who comming into the world as he hath not taken away the former nature of maÌ„ but renued it so hath he not destroyed the earthly kingdome but amended it Here vpon he concludeth that earthly kings may be made Citizens of gods Church and vse all their olde right and most free gouernement in all those causes that diâ—…ishe not the faith and Religion of christ They may make whome they will fit Ciuil magistrates They maye appoint at their pleasure lawfull punishments for malefactors and freely do al other thing that by the law Naturall Nationall Ciuil or Mâ—…nicipall shall be allowed To all this as we agree with M. Saunders and therfore I gather bâ—…t a briefe coÌ„tâ—…ct
therof so let this by the way be noted that he giueth Princes most free Principaliue 〈◊〉 thoâ—…e causes that 〈◊〉 not the faith and Religion of Christ. But to place good Bishops and pastors in gods Churche to remoue euill Bishops and pastors from gods Church â—…o puâ—… Idolatrie out of gods Gods Church to set forth suâ—…h 〈◊〉 seruice as is to edifie gods church to coÌ„mand the word of God to be read in the vulgar tongue to reforme Ecclesiasticall abuses to punishe whordoms to allow as honorable matrimonie in all men to call councels to commaund the Sacraments to be vsed as Christ ordeined theÌ„ to ouersée al estates degrées of persons in gods Church to do in al things to the glory of God to the publique preseruation of the Church to the faithful administratioÌ„ of their particular callings doth not diminishe the faith and ReligioÌ„ of Christ Therfore Christian Princes haue most free principalitie that is to say supreme gouernment in al these eccl. so wel as in ciuil causes Now that he hath granted to Princes thus much which coÌ„prehendeth all the question he declareth on the other side what he exempteth from the Bishops but so subtily that vnder pretence of debarring them from hauing authoritie in those things that he ascribeth to the Princes principalitie he both reuoketh his former graunt to Princes and conueyeth all those things vnto the Bishops Neither Pastors of the Church saith he doe intermeddle their authoritie in those things saue nowe and then to admonishe them and giue theÌ„ faithfull counsell neither doe we defend all dominions and kingdomes to be giuen by gods lawe euery where and in all things to be subiect to the pastors of the Church but in those causes onely which would hinder the faith and Christian saluation except they were partly forbidden as diuorces vsuries and such other sinnes which the natioÌ„s committe without punishment partly commaunded as giuing of almes the defence of neighbours and chiefly of the poore the fortifying of the Church of Christ and Christian Religion and to conclude all other things which the lawe of God commandeth and prescribeth as necessarie to saluation In these wordes Maister Saunders speaketh cleane contraries the Princes haue the moste frée principalitie in all causes that diminishe not the faith and Religion of Christe and the Bishops doe onely admonishe and giue councel and yet he ascribeth all to the Bishops both to punishe all that would hinder the faith and Christian saluation and to fortifie all that would furder it What is not here againe giuen to the Bishoppes and what is not here againe taken from the Princes yea their Kingdomes and all in some places and nothing left for Princes for what else meaneth he by this we defend not all dominions and kingdomes to be giuen by gods lawe euery where and in all things to be subiecte to the pastors of the Church As who should say some are subiect to them by the law of God where the lawe of God is flat to the contrarie that no kingdomes are subiect vnto them But as Maister Saunders contrarie to gods law maketh some kingdomes subiect in all things vnto Bishops so maketh he all kingdomes subiect vnto them in matters of diuorces vsuries and such other sinnes saith he as the nations commit without punishment Which as it is a sclaunder to Christian Princes as mainteining such sinnes which rather they punishe and Popishe Prelates both permit and commit without punishment of them so he ascribeth these punishmentes to the Popishe Prelates for nothing but for aduauntage as also the gyuing of Almes defence of neighbours and chiefely of the poore As thoughe that Princes did not or could not doe these things but the Priestes who by suche fetches gat all things into their clutches Maister SauÌ„ders hauing thus séemed at the first to yelde vnto Princes great authoritie and streight to take away all againe from them and giue it vnto themselues least Princes might worthily thinke themselues abused he mitigateth the matter with this reason Neither ought it seeme strange to anye man that kings in these matters should obey Christ for this standeth theÌ„ chiefly vpon sith otherwise they cannot get eternall life As thoughe your Pope Maister Stapleton and you hys â—…riests were christ Good reason it is they shuld obey Christ otherwise as you say most truely therein they cannot get eternall life But sith you are not Christ this reason holdeth not But you will say you be Christs and represent christ Woâ—…ld to God you were M. Saunders and not rather â—…tichristes For if you were Chrittes you woulde oâ—…ey your Prince And not haue the Prince in authoritie of gouernement obey you whom you ought to obey since a Christian Prince is Christs also and in authoritie â—…f gouernment immediatly to Christians representeth Christ. Thinke you that Princes can not get eternall life excepte they obey your Pope so you tel them in dede make manâ—…e Princes afraid therof by which meanes you haue gotteÌ„ their gouernement from theÌ„ And thus prâ—…tending the name of Christ you saye VVâ—…en therefore we say that earthly kings ought to be vnder Christes ministers we say onely this that they no otherwise can be saued neither receiued of Christian people to a kingdome or oughte to be suffred in the administration of a kingdome than iâ—… they both doe and pretermit those things that the lawe of Christ commaundeth to be done and pretermitted If you meane the obedience to the ministers of Christ no furder than this to doe and 〈◊〉 those things that â—…he law of Christ commaundeth to be done and pretermitted theÌ„ were the controuersie at an end for this obedience was never denied But before you went furâ—…er and would hauâ—… the Prince to doe and preteâ—… those things that the lawe of the Pope and his Priests would haue done and pretermitted 〈◊〉 you repâ—…e they be 〈◊〉 of Christ their 〈◊〉 is the 〈◊〉 of Christ this would be proued M. Saunders for it is 〈◊〉 of the chiefest pointes in controuâ—…sie As for Christs lawe we graunt that excepte the Prince obey it he can not be saued But that he which in any one poynt doth any thing which Christs lawe commaundeth nâ—…t or 〈◊〉 any thing that Christs lawe commaundeth is not to be receiued 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 people to a kingdome or bâ—…ing receiued ought not to be â—…tred in the administration of a kingdome is a perilouâ—… doctrine For who should thâ—… be a king or who shoulde noâ—… be turned oute of his kingdome For who offendeth not herein chiefely expounding the law of Christ as your selues â—…ed in what daunger and thraloâ—…me to you should kings become so that it were better be a begger and beg his bread than be a Christian king and rule and be ruled on this wise if these your rules were true But now to helpe the matter you will expound what ye meane by the â—…aw of Christ. But what the
that M. Stapl. passeth so slightly ouer proue the full matter M. Stapleton letteth go the principall mat ter and quarels at the margin Stapl. 77. a. The englishing of the worde supremus The last taken for the chiefest The proportion betweene the stay of an anchor and the staye of a Prince Sadliâ—…g â—… Cowe Beggerly shifts Stapl. 78. b Nicephorus his amplification Stap. fol. 78. b The force of a metaphore 2. Tim. â—… Stapl. 78. b. 1. Tim. 8. M Stapletons order to this diuision Stapl. 79 b Stapl. 80. a. Stapl. 80. a Comparison of learning betweene bishop Gardineâ—… bishop White and Bishop Horne Sta. 80. a. Prouer. 12. Wherfore Nicephorus dedicated his ecclesiastical historie to the Emperour Prefa Niceph. The princes exact iudgement and censure in ecclesiastical matters The Princes reformation of the priestes and of the Churche Stapl. 80. b 79. â—… M. Stapl. inconstancie and contradiction Stapl. 80. b M Stap. grauÌ„teth the good regiment of magistrates to be the spring of true religioÌ„ Prosperitie religion ioyned in a Prince Prâ—…fa Niceph. Stap. 80. b. Stapl. 85. â—… The Grecians fell into the Turkes captiuitie after this submission to the Pope The Papistes haue as muche cause or more to beware by the Grecians captiuitie than the ProtestaÌ„ts The Pope the chiefe cause of the Greke emperours decay The Pope also the chief cause of the Weast Emperours decay The Greeke church neuer became captiue to the Turke till they became thrall to the Pope Stap. 81. a The countreys that obeyed the Pope become thrall to the Turks cap tiuitie Stapl. 81. â—… Blearing the readers eyes How M. Stapl. answeres the Bishops allegation Cyril epi. 17. â—…om â–ª 4. Wherein the Emperoures chief care consisted Obscuritie 2. Cor. 2. Stapl. 8 â—… â–ª b Generalities Particularities Cyril epi. 17. tom 4. The discussing and debating Ecclesiasticall matters argueth not the supreme gouernement of theÌ„ How the Papistes elude the examples of christian princes Stapl. 81. b Stapl. 81. b. M. Stapl. false and subtile translation Principalitie of priest â—…ode Priesthoode sprong not froÌ„ Peter Gal. 2. The Papistes saye S. Iames sayd the 〈◊〉 Masse Peter no massing priest What manner of principalitie of priesthoode Valentinian ment Concil tom 1. The Epistle of Placidia to Theodosius The Epistle of Eudoxia to Theodosius Theodosius Epistle to Valentinian Wherein the Emperour had the gouernement of the councell The Emperor decreeth the decree of the Councell No appeale after the Emperours decree Stapl. 82. â—… Stapl. 82. â—… Act. â—… Stapl. 82. â—… Pag. 19. b. M St. order to this diuision Stapl. 82. b. cap. 20. The state of the question Supra pag. 136. Stap. 82. b. The supreme authoritie the Papistes grauÌ„t to Princes and in what sense they graunt it Stap. 82. b. What state of the question M. St. setteth downe The oth of the supremacie The othe and the statute slaâ—… deâ—…ed by the Papistes Supreme gouernmeÌ„t is not all maner of gouernement How the ministers are higher or inferiour Stapl. 83. a. Stapl. 83. a. The statute eâ—… cluding any forain persons authoritie excludeth net the authoritie of the whole churche Gala. 3. Coloss. 3. Ephe. 2. What authoritie it is that the true catholike church hath Iohn 15. Stap. 8â—… a M. Stapl. quarell for vniting the supremacie to the crovvne M. Stapl. at the ende of his booke woulde leaue a scruple in the readers head of misselyking the state The answere to M. Stapl. inconneâ—…ence of a Turke or an heretike to haue this supremacie Difference betwene a Turke and an heretike What a Turke would doe if he had the crovvne Iob. 34. Psalm 147. The Princes certain and pre sente righte oughte not to be forsakeÌ„ for feare of vncertain inconueniences that may be doubted to come Difference betwene a Princes authoritie and a Princes tyrannie The Statute cleared from M. Stap. inconuenieÌ„ce Howe muche the Papistes regarde the crowâ—…e of 〈◊〉 How well the Pope wisheth to England Whether M. St. inconuenience wold not fall oute if the clause of supre macie were vnited to the Pope What the lawe respecteth in the statute Stapl. 83. a. b. Stapl. 83. b Stapl. â—…3 b. Stapl. 83. b. The excuses of the Papists Stapl. 83. b The Papistes pretence of zeale to God to disobey their Prince The absolute obedience to God hindreth not the conditionall obedience to the Prince What the Papists meane here by God. Hovv Thomas Becket died for Gods cause Sta. 83. b. The accusation of vs. Stapl. 83. b The B. charged for omitting the Principall ecclesiasticall cause Cap. 63. b M. Stapletons contradiction M. Stap. wold driue the B from his issue The Prince and the statute slâ—…undered Difference betwene ecclesiasticall gouernour and gouernour in ecclesiasticall causes How iudgement in ecclesiasticall causes is ascribed to the Prince how not Gal. 1. The statute slaundred The Popishe churche claymeth superioritie in iudgeging of doctrine aboue the Pope Stap. 48. a. Stap. 48. b. Math. 12. The original of bothe powers Lib. 2. cap. 1. pag 56. M. Saunders beginneth with contradictions to himselfe Saund. pag. 57 Saund. 57. Saund. 57. sand pag. 57. Supra pa. 108. Difference betwene the ciuill power of heathen and christian Prin ces Maister Saunders contradictions Saund. pag. 57 The kingdom of Christe in this world but not of this worlde Ecclesiasticall power Saund. pa. 57. How the royal power submitteth it selfe to the Ecclesiasticall power The distinction of In of Stapleton fol. 29. a. b. Deuter. 17. Saund. pa. 57. The vse of both powers M. Saunders contradictioÌ„ Supra pag. 791. Howe Hâ—…lie had the ciuil and ecclesiâ—…sticall power Howe Noe Melchizedech and Abraham had both powers Sâ—…und pa. 56. Howe Moyses had bothe powers How the Machabees had them Howe Samuel had them Speciall consecration Sauâ—… pag. 57. Ozias example Supra pag. sand pag. 57. Supra pag. 670. sand pag. 57. 58. The ende of both powers Math. 10. 1. Tim. 2. How farre the ende of the ciuill power stretcheth Supra pag. 117. M. San. maymeth S. Paules sentence Supra pag. 669. Killing the â—…o dy is not the proper ende of the Princes power An ill Priest killes the soule Platina de sententijs Pij 2. Pag. 80. M. Sanders contrarieth him selfe sand pag. 58. What superiour power we ascribe to the Prince Saund. pa. 5â—… M. sand order in this chapter sand pag. 58. M. Saunders Definition of a gouernour M. sand examples to coÌ„firme his definition M. sand definition false M. sand examples insufficient Diuers instances against M. sand exaÌ„ples The instance of an Embassadour M. Feck tale of a gentleman defending that mustard was good with all meate The instance â—… of woman sand pag. 58. Maister Saunders exceptioÌ„ The vvill and povver of a king restrayned by lavve The similitude of a mannes body Sand. 58. Matth. 28. Iohn 20. 1. Cor. 11. Num 27. Iud. 4. 4. Reg. 11. Gal. 4. 4. Reg. 11. 4. Reg 22. 1. Tim. 2. 1. Cor. 14. Gal. 4. M Saunders argumeÌ„t standeth all