one costeth nothing but a dash of a â—nn and trauaile of toung the other requyreth great charges â—reat toyle great aduenture and great tyme. But in particular 〈◊〉 the vvandring matter vvithout vvandring It is the seuenth grosse vntruth that the Pope hath dravven 37. The 7. and 8. vntruth Catholicks to idolatrie It is the 8. vvhich in euery part of the â—ormer diuagation is contayned Some merry compagnions inâ—ended to make you M. Rider ridiculous to the vvorld Euery â—eane howse in Millan and Naples might be a howse competent â—or the mayor of your VVigen Euery Citisen is armed at his â—hoise Euery weapon long at will and pointed sharply Euery such poesie no point might passe for good English but not for â—ny frenche Nether do they speake frenche in those contryes Haue not these men much mynde to discusse a controuersie of â—he real presence that make prefaces so far wyde from it and â—ange rouing to Antiphonaries to prelats liues to whoores to Popes supremacie to the plotts of the K. of Spaine the habiâ—ations and weapons in Naples and Millan His preface being â—t large considered let my preface which he concealed haue liâ—ence to appeare aunswering this challenging letter wherby our â—isputation began â—8 I couet only at this tyme to premonishe the Reader conâ—erning the inscription of this letter S. August to 4. con mendac c. 6. that as S. Augustine sayd of â—uld hereticks Although they beleeue not the Catholick fayth yet they â—o speake as they may be taken to be of our profession euen so our new Euphrateans Iudicum 12.6 they would fayne passe for good Israelits but they can not pronounce Schiboleth that is they can not counterfett the style of Catholick but that they are discouered A FRIENDLY CAVEAT TO IRELANDS CATOLICQVES CONCERNING THE DAVNGEROVS Dreame of Christs corporall presence in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper grounded vpon a letter sent from the Catholicques c. To the reuerend Fathers the holy Iesuits Seminaries and all other Priests that fauour the holy Romane religion within the kingdome of Ireland HVmbly praieth your Fatherly charities Rider F. W. and P. D. with many other professed Catholicques of the holie Romane religion that whereas of late they haue heard some Protestant Preachers confidently affirme and as it seemes vnto our shallow capacities plainly do prooue that these positions here vnder written cannot be proued by anie of you to be ether Apostolicall or Catholicque by canonical Scripture or the auncient Fathers of the Church which liued and writ within the compasse of the first fiue hundred yeares after Christs ascension which assertion of theirs hath bred in â—our suppliaÌ„ts great doubts touching the trueth of the same vnlesse your fatherly â—ccustomed charities be extended presently to satisfie our consciences in the same â—y the holy written word of God such Fathers of the Church as aforesaid which being so directly and plainely proued by you as aforesaid may be a speedie meanes to conuert many Protestants to our profession Otherwise if these points â—annot be so proued by you vpon whose learned resolution we greatly relie then â—ot onely we but many thousands more in this kingdome of Ireland can hold â—hese points to be neither Apostolicall or Catholicque And thus hauing shewed â—â—me of our doubts we desire your fatherly resolutions as you tender the credit â—f our religion the conuincing of the Protestants and the satisfying of our poore â—onsciences And thus crauing your spedie learned and fatherly answeres in writing at or before the first of Februarie next with a perfect quotation of both â—cripture and Fathers themselues not recited or repeated by others for our better â—â—struction and the aduersaries spedier stronger confutation we coÌ„mend your â—ersons and studies to Gods blessed direction and protection Positions That Transubstantiation or the corporall presence of Christs bodie and bloud in the Sacrament was neuer taught by the auncient fathers that euer writ in the first fiue hundred years after Christs ascention but a spirituall presence onely to the faithfull beleuers 2 That the Church of God had not their seruice in an vnknowne tongue but in suâ—â— language as euery perticuler Church vnderstood 3 Thirdly that Purgatorie and prayers for the dead were not then knowne in God Church 4 Fourthly that images praying to Saints were then neither taught by theâ— Fathers nor receiued of the Catholicque Church 5 Fiftly that the Masse which now the Church of Rome vseth was not then known to the Church 6 Sixtly that there ought not to bee one supreame Bishop ouer all the world and the Bishop to be the Pope of Rome and that the said Pope hath not vniuersall iurisdiction ouer all Princes and their subiects in all causes Temporall and Ecclesiasticall The Protestant Preachers affirme vnles you prooue the premisses by canonical Scripture they cannot be Apostolicall there fore bind not the conscience of anie And if they cannot bee proued by the said Fathers then they be neither auncienâ— nor Catholike And therefore to be reiected as mens inuentions Gatho Priests PRouoked to prooue either by Scriptures or Fathers which liued within the comâ—â—â—â— of fiue hundred yeares after Christs ascention that the Primitiue Church and Catholicques of this time are of consent touching these Articles 1 That Christ is really in the blessed Sacrament 2 That scriptures should not be perused by the vulgar 3 That praier for the dead and Purgatorie was beleeued 4 That images were worshipped and praiers made to Saints 5 That Masse was allowed 6 That the supremacie of the Pope was acknowledged Rider Maister W. N. GEntlemen the cause of this your prouokement was a quiet and milde conference vpon these positions with an honorable Gentleman and a speciall good friend of yours concerning religion wherein he confidently affirmed that the Iesuits ond Romane Priests of this kingdome were able to prooue by Scriptures and Fathers these Positions to be Apostolicall Catholicque And that the Church of Rome add the Romane Catholicques in Ireland now hold nothing touching the same but what the holy Scriptures and primitiue Fathers held within the first fiue hundred yeares after Christs ascention Now yf you in this conference for your part haue made such proofe by the holy canonicall Scriptures and such Doctors of the Church as aforesaid I haue promised to become a Romane Catholicque if you haue failed in your proofe which I am assured you haue done he likewise before worshipfull witnesses hath giuen his hand to renounce this your new doctrine of the church of Rome and become a professor of the gospel of Christ This was the occasion and maner of your prouokement which I hope the best minded will not mistake nor you misconter being onelie prouoked by your friend 1. Pet. 3.15 yea and faith if you refuse not Saint Peters counsell to be readie alwais to giue an answere to anie man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you The
They haue their faythe so inspyred as they will iudge therby all angels and men and be iudged by none And euery one of them is in the right althowgh by their owne confessions they be all fownd in Fide sua miserabiliter rotari sine fine modoque variare confessiones suas in their faythe most miserably to be rowled Colloq Altemburg fol. 462. Centuriatores Centur 9. in prefatione and without end or measur to varie their professions Iam veram doctrinam probantes mox eandem damnantes iam appellantes heresim quod antea pro veritate inuicta praedicabant now approuing for sownd doctrin and suddenly condemning the same now calling it heresie whiche befor was preached for inuincible trueth Nether is there any so meanely a conceited artificer that dyneth or suppeth withowt discoursing on this discord of the holy Reformed crue Let therfor our disputations alone and salue your owne vnreconciliable vprors whiche hitherto all your Cowncils or Synods as is shewed in the 19. numb cowld not so muche as mitigat Take owt this beame owt of your owne eye leauing to accuse vs among whom discords are as impossible as concords among yow And it being irrefragably discouered in all other points of the mater in hand take now this decretal demonstration therof and ineuitable assurance to Protestants whiche your Father of trueth your Elias and besyd what is sayd in the 17. Fox Acts and Mon. pag. 404. edit an 1563. Luther in Confess breui to 2. Germ. fol. 357. number alter Phaebus clarissimè fulgens your second Sonn most brightly shyning deliuereth saying Carolostad wresteth miserably the pronowne this Zuinglius maketh leane the verbe is Oecolampad tormenteth this woord body others do butcher the whole text and some do crucifie but halfe therof c. So manifestly doth the deuil howld yow by the noses Let me therfor replye in M. Riders woords against him selfe Orthodox confess Tygur fol. 105. 106. 107. VVill yow follow a foolishe Fryer ane ignorant Abbot a late vpstart Pope of Saxonie as the Tygurins intuled Luther or Preist as Zuinglius Carolostad Oecolampad c. that writ and wreasted within thes sower hondred nay one hondred yeares and forsake Scripturs and the ancient Doctors of the Churche Now let the indifferent mynded Catholicks be iudges yea and Protestants also whether yow or we haue antiquitie consent and veritie on our syds And who differr from Scripturs and Fathers from and among them selues not only in one point of religion but also in euery point and particle of Doctrin Behowld how good frends M. Rider and I are become bothe agreeing vpon one tale meeting in the same forme of woords Whiche speach of his I accompt so fauorable on my syde as for it I will omitt to calculat any vntrueth in all this discourse how many soeuer whiche suer are aboue 20. haue bene offoorded least I showld seeme offended with any parcell of the residue wherwith so true so vndowbted and sincer declaration is annected for all men to know the protestants to follow Luther a foolish Fryer and as M. Rider sayth an heretical Moncke who vsurped the power of Pope and liued within one hondred yeares forsaking for his sake Scripture and Fathers and cleauing to a ragged rablement of dissentious teachers Is not this to condemne to hell it selfe his owne doctrin so assuredly knowen and confessed to be from Luther a Frier from ignorant and Apostat priests who writt within a hondred yeares and is so pugnant and repugnant so madd and mutable that by them selues it is not denyed saying Non sunt vtique parua certamina inter nos neque minutis rebus sed de sublimibus articulis christianae doctrinae de lege euangelio de iustificatione bonis operibus de Sacramentis ceremoniarum vs◠quae nullo pacto componi vel reticeri aut dissimulari possunt Sunt enim merae contradictiones quae concordiam non ferunt Nicolaus Gallus sup◠intendens Ratisbonae in thesibus ac hypothesibus Certainly they are not small cōtentions that are amōg vs nor of trifles but of the highest articles of christian religion of the law gospell of iustification good woorks of Sacraments vse of ceremonies which by no means can be appeased hidden or dissembled For they are playne contradictions whiche may not be accorded Is not this by open and playne confession without racking or torturing to haue theeues fall owt and true men to come by their goods to haue falshood vnhooded and trueth reuealed to haue disagreement conuicted and the kingdome therby knowen Sathanical 75. Now to conclude this matter I will shew plainlie by scriptures that hoc est corpus meum can haue no such sence as you teach Rider Hoc est corpus meum expounded by scripture which is that bread is not by this or anie other words transubstantiated or chaunged into Christs bodie and bloud but that bread remaineth after sanctification or as you say consecration and that the scriptures speaking of Christs bodie and of the bread speake distinctlie not confusedlie that is they doe diuide them not confound them giuing to either of them their seuerall nature and propertie yea after consecration And whereas we haue now heard too much of the jarres of your late Popes and writers voide of vnitie and veritie Now let vs heare the holie scriptures expound hoc est corpus meum plainlie and truelie by the Euangelists and Paul who knew best Christs meaning vpon whose exposition all Christians may and must onelie rest satisfied in spite of Pope and poperie 75. The first promise here made is that he will shew playnly by Scripturs that bread is not transubstantiated Fitzsimon but that after consecration it retayneth still his nature The second promise is that he will bring suche exposition from the euangelists and Paul that in spyte of Pope and poperie we may and must rest satisfyed therby Rider Dedit Math. 26.26 Datur Luc. 22.19 Fregit Luc. 21.19 Frāgitur 1. Cor. 11.24 Eis Marke 14.22 76. ANd first we will prooue it from the difference of the signe and the thing signified The scriptures whē they speak of bread they speak actiuely He gaue But when they speake of Christs naturall bodie they speake passiuelie Is giuen When they speake of bread they speake actiuelie He brake it But when they speake of Christs body they speake passiuelie VVhich is broken When they speake of bread they say To you But when they speake of Christs naturall bodie they say For you Pro vobis 1. Cor. 11.24 Dedit Marke 14.23 Effunditur Luc. 22.20 Eis Math. 26.27 Pro multis pro vobis Luc. 22. ac Math. 26.26 Lykewise when they speake of wine they speake actiuely He gaue But when they speake of Christ his bloud they speake passiuelie Is shed When they speake of the wine they say To them But when they speake of Christs bloud they speake For you or for
Num. 38.81.154 and falsifyed the sacred Scriptures them selues perspicuously to all mens eyes aboue all excusation or tergiuersation 6. You haue paragoned or compared the mysteries of Christs gospell with all Sacraments and sanctification therof to base beggerly ordonances of the ould law Num. 36.63.78 7. You haue disdayned the woords of Christs institution of his B. Sacrament and corrected them with a new institution of your owne Num. 68. 8. You haue denyed the whole merits of Christs lyfe and death Exam. n. 14. and imputed your Saluation to it which hapened after Christs death 9. You haue made Christs institution by your actiue and passiue commentarie Num. 76.77 to contradict it selfe and to be absurd and false 10. You haue made Prince and people great and small who euer did breake Images of Christ Num. 96. to be traytours against Christ 11. You haue testifyed your selfe manifouldly to be a Puritan that is a seditious resister Num. 99.122 by your owne priuat diuersitie of iudgment to Princes and Parlament ordonances of late reformation and deadly enemie of Protestantrie which hath bene established 12. You haue bound your selfe to beleeue Num. 35.108 123.124 125. and not to beleeue Christ realy yet not realy spiritualy yet not spiritualy Sacramentaly yet not Sacramentaly literaly yet not literaly c. in the B. Sacrament 13. You haue concourse and consociation with Iewes and Iewishnes in your selfe and your Patriarches Num. 115.119.160 as also with the most heynous hereticks and also disproued condemned all and euery one of the most famous Protestants Num. 122.123 and by them you as generaly are refuted which also is done against by your owne Confessours and Martyrs Num. 124. 14. You haue entred bond and obligation in print to auerre in vnitie and veritie of Doctrin all that euer might be blasphemed against God and Godlines 15. You haue most puritanicaly censured the acts of Parlament since the suppression to be heretical abhominable repugnant to Christs trueth to ancient Fathers and the practise of the primatiue Church Num. 130.131 16. You haue contrarie to your clayme it of first Protestantrie disauowed the General Concil of Nice from you to vs and haue allured the nobilitie of Vlster in Irland Num. 138. to imitat them who intended to kill their King rebelled against his constitutions Breefly what vntruethes denials interpretations sequels arguments contradictions impudencies and impieties you haue besyd all the former runne into they are not so obscurely or seldomly incideÌ„t but all that fauour your profession may thinke you were hyred or of your selfe intended to disgrace disable and condemne your and there cause Since you can not deny any silable of these imputations you may worthely crye the crye of Oecolampad Vtinam c. You may worthely shunne the light of the sunne and therby professe playnly simply that heresie hath no defense but in a lye and can but by lyes and darknes be protected and that coming to light it is suddenly disconfited Inuincible and infallible Spouse of Christ the Catholick Church I resigne and deuote my trauayles wrytings to thy sacred doome With thee I say and vnsay commend condemne all doctrin by me or others professed FINIS A TABLE OF THE MOST PRINCIPALL MATTERS CONTAINED IN THIS BOOKE VVhich the Reader if he please in many pointes may fitlie compare with the Englishe Table of the Protestant Doctors Confessors and Martyrs printed in Black Friars commonlie sould about the streetes and vsuallie hunge vp in sundrie houses VVherin he shall find the foresaid Doctors to be painted in far more truer colours ABBIES ABbies Thomas Muntzer and his fellow Phifer an Apostata Monke destroyed in one yeare 200. Abbies and Castles in Franconia alone pag. 217. A hundred Abbies built in France by one only Moncke of Benchor Abbie named Luanus Ep. ded parag 16. AGNVS DEIES Of the great reuerence exhibited by Charles the Great towardes an Agnus Dei sent vnto him by Leo the third pag. 378. Of the pietie and deuotion of the Emperor of Constantinople towardes another sent him by Vrbanus the fifth ibid. APOSTLES Apostles How Heretiques condemne the Church of the Apostles and how contemptiblie they speake of the Apostles them selues pag. 31. Beza affirmeth Antechrist to haue then begunne pag. 31. The Centurists Beza and Illiricus haue carefully calculated fifteene sinnes of S. Peters ibid. Caluin sayth of S. Paul that he was full of presumption temeritie and precipitation ibid. Quintinus that he was not a chosen but a broken vessel ibid. The Centurists that he was dissentious towardes Barnabas and an hipocrit towardes Iames and others ibid. Bullinger that S. Iohn sinned in Apostacie ibid. Quintinus calleth him a foolish youth pag. 31. Caluin calleth S. Mathew and abuser and distorter of diuers citations pag. 31. S. Marc an Apostata and disloyall Luther that S. Luke was to excessiue in commending good woorkes pag. 31. Caluin of all the Apostles that they were ouer superstitious and subiect to vice ibid. Pomeran that the Apostles wrote wickedlie pag. 138. Luther that they are no true Euangelists ibid. Caluin that they ought not to bable what they list ibid. VVilliam Cowbridge that nether the Apostles Euangelists nor Doctors of the Church haue reuealed how sinners might be trulie saued pag. 308. See more in the woord Creâ—de Caluin they wrest allegations Replie Pag. 49. Depart from the right meaning of them ibid. Shuffle abruptlie many sentences into their writinges ibid. Tearme improprelie ibid. Vse wooodes improprelie c. ibid. BAPTISME Baptisme PuritaÌ„s doe imitate the practise of the Iewes in imposing names vpon their children pag. 273. Certaine new fangled Puritan names noted by a late Protestant ibid. The Lord is neere More triall Reformations Discipline Ioy-againe Sufficient From-aboue Free-gift More fruit Dust. c. ibid. Haux Foxes Martyr denied Baptisme of children to be necessarie to saluation pag. 308. The Puritans Baptisme not to regenerate Replie pag. 66. Not to belong to Infants ibid. VVithout it saluation not to be doubted ibid. pag. 67. To be no more necessarie then Circumcision ibid. BELLS The Assembling of people to Church by ringing Bells to be Antechristian BELEEFE Protestants Abssemled sundrie times and in sundrie famous cities to ioyne in a Fraternall attonment about Religion confesse that there is no hope thereof to be expected but only the hastning the day of iudgment to shut vp all their variances pag. 159. That Sectarists did neuer yet compose any forme of Beleefe whereunto them selues would irreuocablie remayne bound pag. 133. The Arrians foure times in few monthes changed reuoked their Creede ibid. The same testified by suÌ„drie Sectarists them selues of their owne religion ibid. By Clebitius pag. 134. By Hosius ibid. By Osiander ibid. By English Puritans saying that the Church of England is Antechristian and Diabolicall and that none but betrayers of God doe defend it ibid. How 12. choice Protestants at Ratisbon ioyning
figurs and senseles shaddowes 7. It which hath a substantial and â—piritual sacrifice and sensible worshiping of God Sacrifice of the lamb of God by a heuenly â—â—blatioÌ„ of the very Sauior of mankynde for it which disclaymeth veritie substance and sustenance of such diuine and immaculat â—amb and his holy institution 8. It which hath Prelats and preists Prelats and preists Hebr. 5.2 Num. 16.3 separated froÌ„ the rest according to Gods sacred worde to offre gifts and sacrifices for offences for it which with Core Dathan and Abiron affirmeth that all the multitude is equaly sanctifyed toward those functions 9. Obedience to Princes It which commendeth and commandeth obedience to Princes and Magistrats not only for policie but also for conscience sake for it which wher it can preuayle trampleth authoritie trubleth dominions denyeth all other tribut then stroakes and canon shott 10. It which practiseth Gods commandements and works of charitie and professeth Gods commandements as easie and delytsome for it which fayth they are impossible and not belonging to Christians 11. It which hath a visible Church vniuersal for tyme and place A Visible Churche conformable first and last inuincible against infidels hereticks yea or deuils for it wich as a Platonical Idea or poetical chimera is forged in the ayre particular dissentiouse perishing 12. It that hath florished in Apostles Euangelists Martyrs Confessor Virgins Communion of saints and is holpen by them for it that derydeth and blasphemeth them and deface their remembrances O tymes ô maners what monstruouse absurdities haue you bred that a Christian mynde should once stand in consultation whether syde to Gods Church or heresies synagogue he should cleaue and adhere 43. But I satisfie my selfe that you are sufficiently informed and acquainted of and in the controuersie betwixt vs and that yf you be not wittingly miscaryed you fynde his freÌ„dly caueat a venimouse kisse from sugred lipps a wolueishe hypocrisie vnder a lambs contenance Gen. 3.5 2. reg 20. 10. Iosue 9. Isa 28. a cruel wound vnder pretext of a charitable medicine a serpentin narration to Adame and Eua a Ioabs salutation to Amasa a Gabaonit to Iosue and the Israelits counterfeting as the Gabaonits did a remot antiquitie and brefly as the prophet sayth one protecting him selfe and putting his hope in an vntrueth God of his infinit goodnes and according the multitude of his miserations inspire you to vnderstand the trueth inflame you to follow it and fortifie you to remaine perseuer in it Amen Your affectionat seruant to command in Crist THE EPISTLE OF THE AVTHOR TO MASTER IOHN RIDER WOrshipful M. Rider You haue this Aunswer yf later then expected yet I assure my selfe sooner then affected So that as an vngratefull guest it preuenteth all wellcome You might haue had it long befor but that your inuitation therof was conformable to the new requesting frends to meales with many capps and verbal â—urtesie but without intertaynment charitie or hospitalitie For you prouoked â—â—e to labour it but debarred me to publish it And noe merueile for you knew â—t to be that it is to wit a hand wryting to Balthazar Mane Thechel Phares Daniel to a licentiouse Iudge conuerting his iniquitie vpon his owne head And that I may not be a tedious reherser of what you feele better then I can expresse a Dauid to Goliath by his owne swoord beheading him and destroying tenn thowsand of his compagnions Not that I impute any woorth â—or weight to my cooperation therin but that the cause it defendeth is so inexpugnable as lyke a firme rock it crusheth them that fall on it and oppresseth them on whom it falleth You might haue bene thought wyse yf you had houlden your peace For men of your sorte hauing a negatiue religion are commonly satisfyed to carpe at our sayings without care to iustifie their owne and but by extremitie to specifie any positiue doctrin that they may haue libertie to change at will But you would be a more venturouse Caualiero then the residue let all the world iudge whether it was for any extraordinarie wysdome or sufficieÌ„cie if you who among thowsands were most vnfit haue professed playne decretal positions repugnant not only to all christianitie but which ordinarily by you is more esteemed to all your owne confraternie or rather because you continualy iarr to your confederated diuersitie So that many of your most iudicious surmisers mistrust that by some promised promotion of papists you had praeiudiced and in a maner betrayed your profession to infamie and derision of sett purpose by so discouering many defectiue articles and enorme absurdities therof which to our owne contryes can not choose but cause à dislyke yf not a loathsomnes and surfet and being notifyed to other contryes which had bene done yf I had not altered my purpose only for better concealing for what friuolous futilities the Catholick fayth in Christ Iesus is exchanged by wryting in our vulgar toung what I first intended to haue written in latin would produce in them ether a disdayne toward vs or deploration against our estate that so many good dispositions and otherwyse deepe capacities are so miserably miscaryed by so base and deceitfull delusions palpablie perceauable euen to winking eyes I assure you no mans death I know had bene vnto me more vnwished before this my awnswer published least it had bene suspected or excepted that I had imposed your owne printed assertions vpon your profession But my synceritie will appeare perspicuously by inserting your booke intirely and concordantly to your Dublinian edition which can not be imagined to haue bene a deede of any other then your selfe You haue great and sundrie causes to be thankfull for this my awnswer First because it displayeth seueral dangerouse errours by which you would haue eternally perished and now by reclayming them yf you please you may escape Secondly that by it the sharper reprehension and refutation of others who would and might more disdaynfully reproue you is perhapp anticipated and hindred Thirdly that for sparing fauor toward you many slips are indulgently dissembled and such as are detected in the most milde style that might possiblie belong to maters of lyke qualitie are prosecuted I cowld calculate others yf I attended deserued gratitude in one of your disposition or education Howsoeuer you will interpret kinde and beneficious offices I will incessantly implore Gods infinit mercie toward you and your complices that he would open your obstinat eyes and mollifie your hardned harts and mitigat his incensed wrath against you wherby you may vnderstand your errours abandon your heresies cease to diuide the Churche and scattre Christs Catholick flock being by so pretious redemption formerly vnited And finaly that being myndfull whence you are fallen you repent and returne to your first workes least your candlestyke be remoued and for want of true light fall into that infidelitie of all Christian religion which in Africk Grece and other places immediatly succeded opinions
in Cardinall Caietans opinion writing vppon saint Thomas Aquinas in this manner Per Euangelium non possunt catholici hereticos conuincere ad intelligenda verba haec hoc est corpus meum proprie sed tenendum hoc esse solum ex authoritate ecclesia quae ita verba consecrationis declarat That is the Catholickes cannot conuince or inforce the Heretickes by the Gospell to vnderstand these wordes hoc est corpus meum this is my bodie properlie but this exposition must bee fetched and held from the authoritie of the Church So this your religion is none of Christs because it is not warrantted by the gospell of Christ which so expoundeth the words of consecration See I pray you what one of your leardnest Friers reports out of one of your skarlet Cardinals of Rome that you cannot prooue by Christs Gospell these words this is my bodie to haue a proper and litterall signification So that CHRISTS Gospell condemnes your litterall and proper exposition and so your carnall presence of Christ must be maintained from and by the authoritie of the church of Rome though Christ and his Gospell say no. Alasse with what conscience dare you teach the Catholicks this heresie Super quaest 75. Art primo Fol. 236. Printed at Venice 1593. which by your owne confession hath no warrant from Christs Gospell And Cardinall Caâ—etane himselfe writing vpon your saint Thomas Aquinas speaketh to the same purpose that the Scriptures speake nothing expresse expresly of Christ his carnall presence in the Sacrament but onely in these words hoc est corpus meum which words saith he are two waies expounded first properlie secondlie metaphoricallie But saith hee the maister of the sentences is to be taxed Lib. 4. dist 10. who held too much with the figuratiue interpretation And there you shall see that he blusheth not to say that your litterall sence is not from the Gospell but from the church of Rome And if your Romane Church may be both partie witnesse and iudge there is no doubt but the verdict must sound on your side And there the Cardinall handles Duas nouitates valde mirabiles which being dulie examined parturiunt montes c. with manie other forgeries and fooleries to maintaine your carnal kingdome of your Breaden-god Thus much concerning your two consecratorie propositions which by the testimonie of Scriptures and Fathers be figuratiuelie to be expounded as we say not properlie and litterallie as you vntrulie teach How Caietan and the Master of Sentences are by him falsifyed 61. I Confesse that a late Frier might be owld in age Fitzimon But I would fayne be instructed what proofe is affoorded that concerning Angles by him declared late and owld is not shewed litle pithe or method in such medlie Angles then affirmeth saith he that hereticks can not be coÌ„uicted by the gospell to vnderstand This is my bodie properly Why can any doubt therof that hath any common sense Do we not behould that hereticks notwith standing the gospell do denye it Do we not behould that M. Rider among the rest immediatly befor affirmed that it was vnheard of in 800. yeares after Christ and therby is made an heretick by his owne alleadged late and ould Angles Should we not remember the open protestation of a Protestant Bullinger decad 5. de caena apud Schluss lib. 2. art 16. Zuinglianos non posse credere Christum esse in coena praesentem vero suo corpore licet omnia in mundo Concilia omnes Angeli Diui id iubeant credere The Zuinglians not to be able to beleeue Christ to be in the supper according his true bodie although all the Concils of the world all Angels and Saincts did command to beleeue it To inferr also that what can not be proued out of the gospel is condemned by the gospell is a blasphemous Riderian sequel For nether the holy Trinitie nor manifould principal parcels of our beleefe mentioned in the 33. number can be proued by the gospell yet are not condemned nether by the gospell nor by condemned enemyes of the gospell And could impudence it selfe informe and inferr in the woords following that Caietan professed Christ and the Gospell not to stand for the true propre and litteral sense of these woords Hoc est corpus meum Caiet in 3. part D. Th. q. 75. a. 1. O desperat deprauations Thus Caietan discoursed Habemus igitur ex veritate verborum Domini in sensu proprio corpus Christi veraciter esse in Eucharistia hoc est primum quod ex euangelio habemus circa hoc sacramentum VVe haue therfor owt of the veritie of the woords of our Lord in their propre sense the bodie of Christ to be verilye in the Eucharist and this is the first that we haue owt of the gospell belonging to this Sacrament Behould now the forhead of M. Rider and thinke in equitie whether impudence inioyed euer a more ordinarie tabernacle to seat and plant it selfe then therin Caietan saith M. Rider affirmeth that the Scriptures speake nothing expresselye of Christs carnal presence I leaue the woord Carnal to the Carnal interpreter in the sacrament Contrary to which saith Caietan him selfe the woords of our Lord in their propre sense teach the veritie of Christ verilye being in the Eucharist Againe He blusheth not saith M. Rider to say that your litteral sense is not from the gospell Contrary to which worthye to wreast blushing out of a flint saith Caietan and that in the same place cited this we haue out of the gospell belonging to this Sacrament Is it not therfor the 47. vntrueth that we are sayd not to be able by the gospell to proue the real presence because we are sayd to say that hereticks can not be conuicted by the gospell The sacred Scripture saith Prou. 29. Verbis non emendabitur seruus durus Si enim intellexerit non obediet By woords ether of God or man will not the stiffe seruant be amended for although he vnderstand he will not obey Is it not the 48. The 47 48 49. 50. 51. vntruth vntrueth vpon such premisses that Christs gospell condemneth vs The 49. that by our owne confessions we haue no warrant from the gospell The 50. that Caietan relateth proofs against vs As lowd and lewed is the 51. vntruth Caietan to reprehend the Master of Sentences for houlding to much with the figuratiue interpretation he only reporting of him that he pursueth their error who esteemed such woords should be taken metaphoricalie Gentle Readers to you I say in the woords of S. Augustin S. August l. 2. con Petil. VVe are constrayned to heare debat and refute these tryfles only because the seelie by them be not entangled For otherwyse what greefe could be greater then to spend tyme and payne in incountring him whose protection is to peruert disproofs into proofs affirmations into negations falshods into truethes foes into frends and not to weye synn or shame because he
materially without anie signification at all See now whither you are brought or rather whither haue you brought Gods people from trueth to false hood if hoc signifieth nothing where then is your transubstantiation For if in that word which should first worke in the change there bee no mention of bread how can that which is no way comprised in them be changed by them and so you speake against your selues Againe as you are rent in sundrie opinions touching hoc so also are you touching est for when you saw that est would not serue in his proper Euangelicall and Apostolicall signification then you gaue him a new exposition For Bonauenture seeing that est as Christ and Paul meant it would not fit their purpose VVhat est signifieth there is great variāce amōgst the Romish Prelats Est i. Fit Est est verbum anuntiatiuum non constitutium Est i. erit Iosephus Angles in loco praedicto pag. 115. then hee of purpose expounded it by Fit vt sit sensus panis fit corpus meum that it might be thus in sence The bread is made my bodie Yet Occham hee likes not Bonauentures Fit because hee thinkes it is too grosse and too false and therefore he will expound est by erit that it may carrie with it this sence this shall be my bodie but saith he it is a verie rash and brainsicke opinion and alleadgeth as brainsicke a reason as there you may see Yet Caietanus the Cardinall de Eucharistia cap. 7. pag. 104. col 2. C. D. denieth est to haue anie such signification vnlesse it be in metaphors and parables But least that I shuld be too offensiue vnto you I could deliuer so many seueral opinions of yours touching the praedicat corpus one saith it must bee meant of Christes bodie glorified no saith another that is false but it must be vnderstood of his bodie as it was before his passion And a third opinion obiects certaine doubts against both the former Magister Sententiarum lib. 4. dinstinct 12. page 60. deliuers foure seuerall opinions de fractione partibus Now Gentlemen I appeale to your consciences if they be not cauteriated whether you haue dealt well with the ignorant Catholickes of this land in perswading them that in all your doctrine there is consent without jarres antiquitie without innouation and vniuersalitie without limittation whereas there is nothing but jarres discords and dissentions in your consecration in your transubstantiation and in euery word almost nay perticle as hoc and est be so wrested by your construction that you haue brought both their proper significations to plaine destruction Is this exposition Catholicke what auncient father euer expounded it so let the Catholickes know or else they with vs will iudge neither you nor your doctrine Catholicke Will you follow a foolish Frier an ignorant Abbot a late vpstart Pope or Priest that writ and wrested within these foure hundred yeares and forsake Scriptures and the auncient Doctours of the Church Now let the indifferent minded Catholikes be iudges whether you or wee haue antiquitie consent and veritie on our sides And who differs from Scriptures and fathers from and amongst themselues not onelie in one point of religion but almost in euerie point particle of doctrine Thus much concerning your discords amongst your selues all against the auncien◠Apostolicall and Catholick truth 74. Spectatum admissi risum teneatis amici Fitzsimon being admitted to behowld this courser I would say discourser can yow good frends refrayne from smyling He telleth yow the third opinion is all one with the first and yet that it is the third and not all one but a seueral opinion This must needs make vp the 77. vntrueth The 77. vntruth Next that the fowerth fift and sixt opinions are all contrary to the former and yet that being different The 78. vntruth they are not different among thēselues but that they all agree This is the 78. Then he maketh a ragged argument yf nothing be conuerted by the first worde all our dealing is vndone Alas yf he would be capable he might thinke that this conuersion is done by Gods infinit vertue in an instant not by parts seueraly according to the woords Hoc est corpus meum as yf to euery woord a sondry part were correspondent but that to all the forme conioyntly all the conuersion is to be referred so that ther be conceaued a diuers substance present whiche was not befor not euery woord but the whole forme being pronownced Is not this a frantick kynde of cofuting to say only this is sayd I am suer it is false how absurd this is let young sophisters iudge I am suer they sound not of Diuinitie or learning is not this deepe diuinitie for a pope and no suche matter sayd but forged by him selfe his assurance childishe the absurditie only in his conceits the diuinitie and learning impugned so inexpugnable as nether in his brayne is ther any reason and by his mowth but Riderian blasts to contradict it Therfor to bring disputations of Doctors therby to testifie a disagreement betwixt them in their beleefe of the substance of transubstantiation they being only of the tyme therof is as wysely done especialy by one more frequent and seasoned with experience in law cowrts then learned colledges as yf he wowld assure that laweyers disagree in allowing the law because they plead seueraly for their Clyents of the construction or tyme of constitution or number of sillables of the law Or yf he wowld say that philosophers doubt whether ther be wynde rayne riuers because they diuersly imagin how when and whence they haue their original Remembre what was informed in the 65. numbre that it is impossible we can haue any dissentiōs among vs according to the saying of the Apostle Si quis autem videtur contentiosus esse 1. Cor. 11.16 nos talem consuetudinem non habemus neque Ecclesia Dei Yf any seeme contentiouse we haue noe suche custome nor the Churche of God Because a Christian wryter among vs must follow as Waldensis saythe Tho. Wald. l. 2. doctrinalis fidei cap. 21.23 the iudgement of the Churche vnder the payne of misbeleefe yf it be a point of faythe or vnder the payne of contumacie yf it be not And all Catholick students among vs doe read the disputations of Doctors vndecided by the Churche cum iudicandi libertate with libertie to censure according to S. Augustins woords S. Augustin cō Faustum lib. 11. c. 5. Et epist 48. ad Vincent and his instructiō toward himselfe and all others imbraceing whatsoeuer they fynde true and imputing it to the Catholick Churche and reiecting what they fynde false imputing it to deceaueable man This is a priuilege of Catholicks to be free from dissentions and neuer but to concurr in one Faythe Luther Zuinglius Cal. n. 19. examinis Not so the wicked not soe as appeareth in the 19. number of the precedent examination
his third Tom. pag 142. Rider There was a learned and godlie woman proposed twelue questions of diuinitie to Hierome wherin of which she desired resolution For in those daies it was lawfull for women and all men to aske doubts touching religion and for their further instruction consolation might read Gods word freelie conferre touching matters that concerned their saluation And this greatly blemisheth your Roman doctrine that will haue neither men nor women to read diuinitie the reason is this least they should see your errors and forsake your profession For this is your strongest tenure Marke this yee Catholickes to keepe them in blindnesse with ydle ceremonies dumb shewes Latten seruice But I trust in Christ shortlie to see most of their eies opened that wil discouer your priuie plots discourage your haughtie stomacks and generallie forsake your new religion being in deed but mans inuention This is the second question of the twelfth but you omit some words cut off some which obscures the matter But if a little charitable chiding would make you more painfull in your bookes and lesse carefull to please mens humors I could finde in my heart to bestow it vpon you but praemoniti praemuniti you are now forewarned I hope you will bee here after better armed or better minded which I wish with all my soule as to my selfe But your proofe is thus in Latten Si ergo panis qui de caelo descendit corpus est Domini vinum quod discipulis dedit sanguis illius est noui Testamenti qui pro multis effusus est in remissionem peccatorum Iudaicas fabulas repellamus c. If therefore the bread that descended from heauen bee the bodie of the Lord and the wine which he gaue his disciples be his bloud of the new testament which is shed for many for the remission of sinnes then let vs cast away all Iewish fables Here you omit Si ergo and noui Testamenti qui pro multis effusus est in remissionem peccatorum If therefore and of the new Testament which is shed for manie for the remission of sinnes All this you haue left out which was ill done What now can you gather out of this to prooue that Christes bodie is made of bread and his bloud of wine no substance of either creature remaining but onelie Christs carnall presence as he was on the crosse Surelie here is not one word silable or letter to prooue it but the contrarie You wronged the father so to mangle him yet as you deliuer him it proueth nothing of the manner of Christs presence that is in question but the matter neuer in controuersie for saith shee to this learned â—â—ther if therefore the bread which came downe from heauen bee the bodie of Christ so she speakes of Christs diuinitie that came downe from heauen for his humanitie did not and our question is of his humanitie by transubstansiation in the Sacrament so that this proofe nothing sorteth your purpose And the bloud here spoken of is his bloud of the new Testament shed on the crosse not in the Sacrament once for all not for anie that pleased the Priest And therefore as she said Iudaicas fabulas repellamus let vs cast away Iewish fables So in Gods name for the loue of Gods trueth and of the peoples saluation cast yee from you all Munkish fables and forged legends that haue misled the people into this blinde superstition and ioyne with vs to teach Christs precious flocke the old Apostolicall and Catholicke religion commaunded in Gods word practised in the primitiue Church that you with vs and we wiâ—h you and all in the Lord may now in this plentifull vintage so labour in the Lords vinyard his Church according to our talents receiued that euery one of vs may deliuer his talent with aduantage of manie soules and then we shall be patakers of that sweet saying Wel done thâ—u good and faithfull seruant enter into thy maisters ioy Which God graunt to vs both And so to the next as followeth The 11. parte of the Second proofe concerning S. Hierome VVherein is discussed whom and how we allowe and disalowe to reade Scriptures and heretical bookes and whether Protestants or we doe most Symbolize with Iewishnes Fitzsimon Cart. lib. 1 pag. 103. lib. 2. pag. 303. 502. lib. 3. pag. 89. 90. Caus â—ial 8. 11. Fulk against D. Bristow pag. 15. 54. 115. CArtwright saith there is not such synceritie to be looked for at Hieroms hand as from others that went befor him That he is a cownterfeit that he often strayneth the text and for milke some tyme draweth blood Causeus saith that he is no lesse damned then Lucifer Fulke that he was but a rayler Sainct Hierome in this allegation teacheth the wyne giuen to the Disciples to haue bene Christs blood In the selfe same resolution to Hedibia he saith the bread quem fregit Dominus deditque discipulis esse corpus Domini Saluatoris which our Lord broke and gaue to his disciples to be the body of our Saluiour Els where he saith ipse Saluator est S. Hieron ad Damas de Filio prodigo cuius quotidie carne vescimur cruore potamur it is our very Saluiour whose fleash we are fedd withall and whose blood we drinke Come foorthe M. Rider and play your wonted parte Come tell vs what you oppose against this First you ronne halfe way in your tale befor you stumble at this block in one only woord At leinthe hemm and speake out your mynde suerly say you here is not one woord sillable or leter to proue that Christs body is made of bread and his blood of wyne Not one woord leter or sillable man Let other mens witts and eyes be iudge how couragiously the 134. vntruth The 134. vntruth is deliuered But suerly the baker and the pillorie once againe must not be suffred to parte so sleightly but that we may examine his cause by parcels and yet not in prolixe or tedious maner That women might aske doubts touching religion is as lawfull now as in those dayes That they might vulgarly read Gods woord or the Scripture seemeth an vntruth at least it is not proued but only affirmed by M. Riders woord the valew whereof is knowen That is was not thought conuenient S. Hieron 103. I gesse by these woords of S. Hierome of whom now we treate Only the arte of Scripture saith he is that which euery one challengeth This the chatting ould wyfe this the doting ould man this the babling Sophister this on euery hand men presume to teache before they learne it Nay more anciently sayd Tertullian Tertul. de praescripe Omnes tument omnes scientiam pollicentur Ipsae mulieres haereticae quam procaces quae audeant docere contendere c. All are puffd vpp all do professe knowledg The very hereticall women how malapert how audacious to teach to dispute c. of which
in our 99. number How lyke you M. Rider this dislyke towards your womens scripturing But plead well for them make much of them for in my owne knowledge yow haue neede to seeke credit among them considering that few or none of them how base soeuer but disdayne the mariage with the ministers of the woord and accept of them only for want of others They might you say freely conferre touching maters of saluation Yf you meane in the Church S. Paul crosseth your saying forbidding women to speake in the Church it not being saith he allowed vnto them The 135. vntruth is that our Romain religion would haue no men nor women read Diuinitie God blesse vs The 135. vntruth How wysely this man discourseth yf this be affirmed in good ernestnes But because godly diuinitie of woomen or sound doctrin tending to Saluation may be knowen allowed by vs let these following assurances to this present purpose in controuersie for all lawful circuiting should haue a referencie alwayes to the centre testifie Saint Agnes euen by testimonie of S. Ambrose tould hir audience this document of diuinitie that corpus Christi corpori ipsius consociatum esset S. Ambros Ser. â—0 Paulus Neapoludiaconus de S. Maria Aegiptiaca the body of Christ was consociated to hir bodye Maria Egiptiaca requested befor hir departure diuini corporis viuifici sanguinis portionem in vase sacro parte of the diuine body and lyfe giuing blood in a sacred vessell Other you may fynde of the femal sex in Garetio Garetius in 3. classe attayning such diuinitie toward this mysterie that great protestant Doctours neuer could reache vnto The keeping away of certaine bookes you say to be our strongest tenure First I aunswer the phrase of tenure in that sense wherin at seemeth intended is new and impropre How soeuer it bringeth me in the memorie how you reprehending minister Hicoxe for keeping a Trull and he you for you know what you called him base and he called you counter Wherunto if you conioyne your woord tenure it may be forgotten how close the counter in London and you marryed together and diuers will or may thinke by such coniunction therof with tenure that his meaning was only that you song a counter in London and in Dublin reached to a tenure and your meaning only that he song a base and neuer could reache higher withowt any other mysterie contayned in your woords For my parte I leaue you in your sweet consort and will aunswer further to such strongest tenure The 136. vntruth that it maketh the 136. vntruth Nether shal you escape in this place from receauing a foyle at venerable Beda his hands saying in cap. 7. Prouerb refert Iuo p. 4. cap. 84. Soli ei conceditur haereticorum libros legere qui adeò solidatus est in fide Catholica vt verborum dulcedine vel astutia nequeat ab ea segregari He is only permitted to read hereticks books who is so founded in the catholick faith that he can not by craft or delyte of their woords be peruerted Also as I obserue among your selues you debarr diuers books of ours from reading as is knowen to euerie meane conceit ryfeling mens houses for them and forfetting all them you finde as Lords ouer all mens goods And the Lutherans do as carefully debarr your bookes in all their dominions Schlusselburg l. 3. art 4. de Th. Caluin sheweth that Caluinians debarr Lutheran books and Lutherans their bookes and bodies And the same to be done by other reformers against reformers appeareth in Gretser Praefat. de iure modo prohib lib. haeret Wherby is testified that we might as well as you or Lutherans debarr such bookes as are by vs knowen to be hurtfull if not against the wyse yet against the simple You know that I abstayne from discouering inconueniencies succeding in our contryes by vulgars intermedling in Scripture Whether cheefe protestants finde it very commendable Calu. in praesat nou test Gallici an 1567. or conuenient I appeale to these woords first of Caluin that he confessed Sathan hath gayned more by these new interpretours then he did before by keeping the woord from the people Secondly by Luther whose later experience is more to be accompted then first vnseasoned persuasions saying Luther l. 1. coÌ„ Zuing. Oecolamp â— Yf the world continue any longer it wil be agayne necessarie for the diuers interpretations of Scriptures now vsed that for the conseruation of the vnitie of fayth we receaue the decrees of Concils and flye vnto them By this â—ppeareth all tenure and cawtion vsed by vs concerning the vse â—r refusing of bookes among vulgar to haue bene deserued For the â—ther point that we would haue no men to read Diuinitie you mistake vs for Richard Hunn Puritan of whom in the 124. numâ—er who damned saith Fox vniuersities with all degrees and faculties You â—aue bound your selfe to the same verdict by making such the foremenn of your quest We create doctors of Diuinitie We found â—choles and lessons to attayne it All the vniuersities of the world â—re fruicts of our faith How then are we sayd to dislyke that men â—hould read Diuinitie wher is Diuinitie but among Catholicks Erasmus ep ad Fratres inf Germ testifieth Luther and Melancton to â—aue condemned all sciences as sinfull and erroneus Smidelin in â—rat qua candidatis licentiam concessit affirmeth the same hatred against degrees of Diuinitie among the Zuinglians Wicleph had a distinct â—rticle that vniuersities studies colleges degrees are Ethnical superstitions and diabolical Luther serm Sympos tit de studijs saith that â—â—udere hath stultum in the supin Whether these reformers or we â—e hindrers of men to read Diuinitie by these euidences may be assuredly gathered ignorance M. Rider was affected not by vs but â—y such repyners against scholes and learning That you would fayne bestowe a litle charitable chiding vpon vs to make vs more diligent should by vs be accompted a fauour For hetherto it hath had litle shew of charitie which you haue vsed against vs saying our religion is sandy superstition wicked and damnable heâ—esie and irreligion our consecration full of vncertaintie absurditie blasphemie our whole doctrin hellishe and damnable and fitter for to be taught in hell by fends then in earthe by Preists our selues but lyers deceauers hereticks idolatrers charmers and magitians c. Therfor we might be gladd to haue charitable mitigations of these greuous reproaches Yet I repeale my woord rather choosing for this cause your hate then your honours your coÌ„tumelies then your compassion Your often and vayne frequentation of another cupple of woords Praemoniti praemuniti only for their consonancie without all occasion doth argue there is litle stoare where such estimation is had of such friuolous repetition How often in speeche in letters in printed books haue I heard praemoniti praemuniti forwarned forfortified I will allowe your reflecting the mention of Iewish fables against our profession if
all of them married who vtterlie refused this tyrannicall and dyabolicall Romish yoke of forced single life Nay in those daies the Nobilitie and Gentilitie of that Prouince defended that true religion with their swordes against the Pope and they refused to receiue Orders Bishoprickes or Decrees from Rome Where vpon you may see that Bernard then in the Popes quarrell calleth the Nobilitie and Gentility of that Prouince generationem malam adulteram a wicked adulterous generation and saith it was Diabolica ambitio potentum a diuelish ambition of the Peeres and mightie men And execranda successio a cursed succession 8 Immediat Lord Archbishops of Armachan maried Marke this ye Noble men Gentlemen of Ireland Imitate your Auncestors in true honour that eight Bishops successiuelie all married yet they all learned and preached the Gospell and ministred the sacraments and yet neither they the Nobilitie nor Gentilitie cared two pence for the Popes blessing or curssing O quantum mutantur ab illis O Lord how farre is the Nobilitie and Gentilitie of Vlster and that prouince nay the most part of the kingdome chaunged from that olde Apostolicall religion and become slaues and ideots in superstitious seruice to that late Italian priest the Pope Gods enemie and the Queens butcher Then they drew their swords against the Pope to defend the trueth now too manie of late drew their swordes for the Pope against the truth The Lord open their eies to see the truth and giue them hearts to renounce this new heresie cleaue to the Apostolical Romane veritie Then will all of them be as readie to fight the Lords battell against the Pope as many of late fought the Queenes battell most honorably against the Spaniard Of M. Riders graunt of the Concil of Nice to be ours And his clayme of predecessours in Vlster Fitzsimon 138. IN saying Paphnutius had confounded a whole synod of our Bishops and learned men the Concil of Nice wherof speeche is made is therby bestowed vpoÌ„ vs. None dowbted therof before Anno 1. Elizab. that it was due vnto vs vntill in the first parlament of our late Queene it was claymed to Protestantry Also by M. Riders appeale to the Fathers of the first fiue hondred yeares of whom the Concil of Nice was euer yet accompted the principal parte it might seeme to any that would beleeue him that we had no interest therin Now of his liberalitie as appeareth he bestoweth the sayd Concil vpon vs and therby vpon him selfe a most infamous confutation of his wofull clayme of the primatiue Fathers A smal mater with him to be contrarie to himselfe But is it so great a gifte as to be so thankfull for it VVhitak Pag. 12. con Campian Beza Epist theol 81. Yes sayth Beza the Polyphemus among Diuines by M. Whitakers opinion as quo nihil vnquam sanctius nihil augustius ab Apostolorum excessu sol vnquam aspexit then which the sonne neuer beheld any thing more holy or more excellent since the Apostles departure Now for recompense of this incomperable threasor contayned in this gift Genes 25. Hebr. 12. will you see a prophan Esau exchange a riche inheritance for a messe of pottage He will needs haue ancestours in our Northen Vlster such as S. Bernard sayth by sathanical ambition reserued the Archbishoprick of Armach among their familie VVhich execrable succession sayth S. Bernard had continued S. Bernardus in vita S. Malachia in fifteen generations And when they had not any of the clergie in their linadge the wicked and adulterous generation they are the woords of S. Bernard by iniquitie woorthy of all death wanted not to witt in name and vsurping Church reuennues Bishops Of which sort without orders but not without learning eight marryed had bene befor Celsus VVherby I obserue the ordre and woords of S. Bernard but breefly insued the dissolution of Ecclesiastical disciplin and ouerthrow of religion and Christianitie For reformation wherof Sainct Malachias by a vision from heauen was chosen and accepted by the King other Bishops and the faythfull of the people to his charge But the Concil of Malignant and children of Belial repugned and purposed to kill both the King and him At lengthe the cheefe of them struken by thunder with three others and the rest dispersed Malachias entred his Bishoprick and hauing by singular and powerfull means appeased his enemyes he reformed abuses The successours and recompense sought by M. Rider Al this confusion by Vlsters relation Bâ—le in his centuries perswaded M. Rider to accept vpon his credit For all is taken out of him are the forsayd intruders into Church dignities O quantum mutantur ab illis How farr are these diuers from them of the Concil of Nice Certainly I would not scarcely haue consociated my enemyes to such For yf the being only rebellious to ecclesiastical disciplin and vsurpers of Church fruicts and intrusion into Church offices and prophaning sacred places yf the doers therof were marryed can satisfye you for ancestours you may enter into your list or catalogue all sects sorts of ould Hereticks all Turcks and Iewes and armyes of malefactours as being such O quantum mutantur ab illis o how much are these inferiour to the three hondred and eighteen Fathers of the Concil of Nice For my part I wil not refuse your demand nor depriue yon of such confederats Yet yf I could I would exempt you from their ruthfull lott Now to answer the circumstances tendred by you and to the formest whether the forsayd eight learned men were not all successiuely Archbishops I say first chat the historie doth not contayne they had bene any such successiuely vnles you would haue them Puritanical Bishops For in the text of S. Bernard they are sayd to haue bene absque ordinibus without Ordres Therfor they could be nether Catholick nor Protestant Bishops as appeareth n. 99. I could the sooner thynke them to haue bene Puritan Bishops the rather for being without ordres as well because they do not allow any distinct ordre of cleargie as also because they are enemyes to all ordres and the disordred disturbers of all well ordered common wealthes and breaders of confusion Qua non immanior vlla pestis ira Deum stygio sese extulit Orco Secondly that they were named by S. Bernard no Bishops but in figure representation and appellation as you say Christ to be in the B. Sacrament For yf you may say Christ not to be otherwyse in the B. Sacrament 1. Cor. 11. notwithstanding his woords of being truely present the same who was deliuered in his passion I may say being bowlstered by the lawes of Gods Church and such proofs as I haue produced n. 99. of imposition of hands that they could not otherwyse then as aforsayd be Archbishops Next I let passe your sweet reuyling of the tyrannical and diabolical Romain yoake Thirdly the nobilities repugning against the Pope is added to the text
in the Oriental Churche and of late Sectarists seeking their fauoure 142. I Request all Readers desyrous of the trueth Fitzsimon to obserue diligently this short declaration following As it hapned euer befor when new Sects budded in any contryes so for euery one prouince reuolting from Gods Church for euery contry infected fot euery diminution of religious authoritie God almightie in his admirable prouidence multiplyed hundreds for one and augmented the dignitie iurisdiction of his churche at the same tyme with reparation of the losse aboue all comparison Sathan might obtayne of God to impouerish first a Iob but could not after hinder that God should redouble all his substance First Constantins gifts and decrees in fauoure of religious authoritie being by diuers of his successours reuoked and infringed especialy by Honorius and Valentinianus God called to fayth and religion Anno. 495. France with their King Clodoueus submitting his dominiōs to Hormisdas Pope About the same tyme the Arians infected small parcells in the East and about the same tyme all our contryes came to Christian religion in the West Secondly Iustinian by Theodora his wyfs impulsion Anno. 732. banished Pope Siluerius the Grecians began to apostat from religion or at least to fall to sondry erroneous perswasions At or about the same tyme when Leo Isaurus also and others impugned Ecclesiastical Iurisdiction Charlemaigne Pipin and others were excited by God to most religious courses the Occidental Empire was separated from the former tyrants the authoritie of the Churche more then euer befor amplifyed and all Germanie and the North part of the world was lightned with Christianitie Breefly after the last Concil of Florence the Grecians falling to hatefull heresies and emulations and making vp a schismatical Church or rather Synagog repugnant to the Romain Catholick Church God sent them first the scourge of the Turcks who subdued them and to this day farre beyond all beleefe most cruely oppresseth them So when Luther Anno. 1500. and his brotherhood conspired into lyke insurrection and that betwixt the Grecians and them part of Greece and Germanie Sleidā in his historie of Charles the fift was as silent as a fishe of the conuersion of the Indies reuolted from Gods Churche then God of his wonted goodnes in abundant recompense bestowed vpon these parts where religion was professed most exactly namly vpon Spaine the infinit regions rather then realms of the world wherof America only neuer befor knowen surpasseth not only in wealthe but also in amplitude the residue of the earth which all our predecessours had euer befor knowen And vpon his Church he bestowed all these contryes in subiection of religion and loialtie as by their late legation from the most remote parts of the world to euery eye and eare was notorious when three Princes of Iaponia in the name of all the rest rendred their homage to Sixtus quintus Pope in Rome hauing imployed three yeares trauailing to come therto anno 1585. Now the premisses forwarned when Protestantrie considered the obstinat Schisme of the Grecians against the Romain Churche on one syde and their owne nakednes the particularitie of their faction on th' other side they sought as people in extremitie respect not by whom or how they are countenanced to be graced with the approbation of the Greeke Churche But they were as spurij adespoti vnknowen illegitimats by them most disdainfully reiected Behould what succeded vpon this their indeuoure God almightie Vide Bredenbach lib. 7 c. 18. awaked as out of a drowsie sleepe two cheefe parts of the sayd Grecian Church to witt the whole Patriarchal portion of Alexandrie the Southeast and the Ruthenian the Northeast part of the Grecian Churche to prostrat them selues before the last Pope Clement in al deuout submission Which being publickly and with incredible solemnitie performed in Rome Tom. 6. 7. circa finem the theatre of the world as is amply specifyed by the worthy Baronius and knowen to all Christendome I need not dwell longer in the relation therof Only let all Catholicks magnifie the mightie bountie of God toward their profession that when aduersaries reuolted from it for euery one subuerted thousand infidels haue bene conuerted and no fewer schismaticks reconciled Vide Bredenbach lib. 7. c. 18. Iustus Calu. in Apologia pag. 12. The censure of the greeke Church giuen against Protestantrye how desyrously the Protestants indeuour to conceale it and how much they are greaued and graueled therby I leaue to Bredenbachius and Iustus Caluinus to demonstrat For conclusion a part of the Schisme of the Greeke Church against the Romain Church consisted in their admitting marryed men to receaue holy ordres Vide Bellarm. to 1 par 3. l. 1. c. 19. after receauing them to retayne their wiues Prouyded alwayes that yf they came chast to holy ordres or that their wiues dyed they could neuer after marry This their lecherous impietie being contrary to all primatiue Christianitie as appeareth they so desperatly imbraced as through it for it notwithstanding all the calamities they sustayne by Turkes all the refutations of their errours by Catholicks all the means that can be wrought hetherto they haue not bene nor might be reclaymed Yet Gods heauie hand ouer them the continual sting of their consciences behoulding their offense their disdayne toward late heresies as fearing to straye more and other sondry manifestations are sufficient proofs that their Schisme is their owne infamie and rather the glorie of the Romain Church then otherwyse that when other Churches lyke chaffe are borne away against it by heresies it as sownd corne remayneth to furnish the heauenly banquet when other houses builded vpon sands are by rayne falling wynds blowing and seas surgeing ouerthrowen it in state and sowndnes not only against the despyte and furie of men but euen against hell gates as Christ had promised remayneth inuiolable Nether as now appeareth Mat. 16. do the Grecians euen in the forsayd disordre concurr with Protestant marriages of Preists who as Luther sayth not only befor ordres but after and not only for one wyfe but for two three fower fiue and six Luth. in proposit de digamia are allowed to entre into matrimonie contrary to the former beleefe and practise of Grecians how leacherous soeuer And not only for this point but also as great or rather greater cōdemnation afforded they of their heresie against the blessed Sacrament saying Ecclesia Orientalis in censura doctrinae Lutheranae c. 10. Ecclesiae Sanctae iudicium est Panem Vinum in Corpus Sāguinem Christi virtute Sancti Spiritus transire ac immutari non quod Christus discendat de caelo vt in Eucharistia presens adsit sed quod per transmutationem transitionem panis in ipsum corpus fiat presens It is the iudgement of the holy Church bread and wyne by vertue of the holy Ghost to passe and be changed into the body and
chosen who directeth thy aduersaries to fynde thee condemned and maketh thy condemnation for impugning their doctrin to be to them a hurtfull satisfaction Rider Berengarius 144. Lastlie you bring in poore Berengarius vppon the stage to beare his faggot and recant his error of the spirituall presence of Christ in the Sacrament which we haue sufficiently proued before to be by scriptures fathers and Popes the true presence And now you bring in siliee Berengarius his recantation too bee our confutation I pray you let me aske you but one question can a reason drawne from a perticular conclude generallie If it should I would reason thus with you Bonner Standish wih others preached stoutlie against the Popes supremacie in king Edward his daies therefore the Popes Supremacie is nor lawfull Would you admit this kinde of reasoning These Iurers be too young to gâ—ue euidence and too partial to be trusted with the triall of this Issue I thinke no no more doe we the other For shall one mans weaknesse inconstancie and fall from the trueth conclude generallie against the trueth God forbid But you will obiect and say it is not one man but three seuerall Synods But I pray you remember that subornation of witnesses and paching of Iuries done in Westminister Hall is most seuerelie punished in that most honorable Starrechamber and shall not the Fope and his followers be called to an account one day before the great Iudge Iesus for the suborning of witnesses and packing of corrupt Iuries to deface Christes trueth and to maintaine their owne forgeries The Catholickes demand a proofe out of Scriptures and fathers for the proouing of your Romane opinion touching Christs reall and corporall presence in the Sacrament and you bring in the Popes Stipendarie Chaplens gathered by the Popes suÌ„mons to vphold the Popes rotten declining kingdome and euerie one of them at least 1100. years after Christâ— ascention and one of them within this sixtie yeares to prooue a thing done a thousand years before Now I giue Irelands Catholicks this friendlie caueat not to cleaue to the Popes Romish religion but to Paules Romane religion and not to rest concontented wiâ—h the name of Catholicks vntill they haue the doctrine that is Apostolicall and Catholicke And now to your fift proofe being your last refuge and least helpe Berengarius his recantations and condemnations 144. FOr his first answer Fitzsimon to this recantation of the first late head of his opinion who could neuer fashion any monstruous body therto of adherents he sayth a particular doth not conclud a general Which being true what miserable conclusions hath he made in his whole booke When yf a figure was to be graunted in one woord therby was concluded that all the seÌ„tence was but figuratiue Yf there were lyke forme of speech and sownd of leters in the ould and new testament therby was concluded there was noe more liberalitie or substance in the new then in the ould yf spiritual sense was affirmed in any one sentence of Scriptures or Fathers therby was concluded nothing was literal Yf any one Prelat and any one booke yea the very Antiphonarie was worthy to be reformed the liues of all Catholicks was therby concluded to be lewed and all their doctrin deuilishe Yf any sentence yea impertinently were alleaged out of any Father the towne the prouince the Kingdome that region of the world Europe Africk Asia were inferred to hould the same although nether person nor place nor prouince of such Region as appeareth in our 60. number when Asie is made to hould an opinion without any of all Asie specifyed for being author therof is numbred What say you M. Rider can reasons drawen from a particular conclud generaly you insinuating that according to learning they can not Spitt out man let trueth haue once a cleane seat in your mouth confesse in plaine deed that they can not and consequently confesse that your inferences hitherto haue bene at least friuolous and vnlearned Secondly I reply that this recantation and condemnation of Berengarius was not particular the condemnation being by three whole Concils and the recantation being Calu. in vltima admonit ad Ioachim VVestphalum as Caluin confesseth by the parent of the Sacramentarian opinion in his owne behalfe and of his children in so much as thervpon to the tymes of the Albigenses and Ihon Wickliff few or none could be found taynted with that errour Secondly he accuseth Bonner and Standish to haue dissembled in their beleefe I thinke in my conscience the accusation is vntrue and the rather because ther is nether witnes nor authour besyd his owne crackt credit to auerr it But let vs suppose it to be true all that followeth therby is that they borrowed Puritanical dispeÌ„sations to them selues mentioned in the 99. number to do contrary to their consciences Deale playnly in Gods cause tell the world whether the late thousand subscribing Puritans haue not all of them drawen in their horns and swayed with the tyme. How many tymes did Latymer and Crammer recant vp and downe So then such did Puritanize Thirdly he answereth that subornation of witneses and packing of Iuries done in Westminister Hall is punished in the starr chamber therby implying that the Pops subornation of his stipendarie this is conceaued a good woord that it is so often repeated Chaplins shal be punished for condemnation of Berengarius To which I reply first out of S. Augustin to be an ould wont of Sectarists Quicquid ex eorum codicibus aduersus eos sonuerit S. Aug. 22. contra Faustum immissum esse a falsatoribus ore impudenti sacrilego non dubitant dicere VVhat soeuer against them selues out of their owne books or of their doctours deeds and recantations is alleaged that they doubt not to affirme out of an impudent and sacrilegious mouth that it is foisted in by deprauers I do not therby intimat that M. Rider is such vnlesse he be guiltie Secondly I would be instructed willingly in the cause of his knowledge how all the Bishops of the three concils wherby Berengarius was condemned are found to haue bene the Popes stipendarie chaplins Peter of Nicomedie is made the Popes pensioner as also S. Bernard and all that can be alleaged against Protestants But why 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ipse dixit M. Rider sayth so Therfor it can not be otherwyse Yf you distrust him or his sayings you are inferred to be trayterous superstitious c. Thirdly how fyndeth he among his Spiritual reuelations that the Popes rotten kingdome declineth For as I shewed not long befor it hath to our seeming neuer in three ages formerly bene so farr extended as in this last and more and more foloweth on the same tenor Fourthly in what Chronologie findeth he that euery one of the sayd stipendarie chaplins liued at least 1100. yeares after Christs ascension The concil sub Victore 2. was in the yeare 1055. The Concil sub Nicolao 2.
protecti The wodd on which the holy body of Christ was placed and Crucified why do all the world so striue to haue it as they that can purchase any parcell therof they inclose it in gould men and women and hang it on their necks being therby thought honoured and riche defended and protected What say yow was that gowlden mouthed Father and Reuerend Chrysostom a Papist or a Protestant was our deuotion in his opinion but simple foolishnes trash c I could long swymme in this plentifull mater of the reuerence and deuotion toward Crosses from the Apostles tyme vpward hauing all godly Fathers and doctors to beare vp my chynn yf this one testimonie of S. Chrysostom by M. Rider commended did not seeme bastant and powerfull to disproue his bare wyse accusation and had I not to treat agayne therof in the article of Images but because he is in Irlād and that it may be knowen of what religion owld Irish men were I will giue one testimonie beyond my woord out of Coelius Sedulius by his owne inscription knowen to be Scotus Ibernensis a Scot of Irland saying in Carm. Paschal Neue quis ignoret speciem Crucis esse colendam That none mistrust the forme of the Crosse to be adored As for Agnus Deis it is to be considered that the Gentils or Infidels vsing to hang at their necks certayne stamps or cownters with filthie dishonest shapes to defend them against charms and incantations as appeareth in Varro him selfe Varro de lingua latina lib. 6. it seemed good to Gods Church since that such as were conuerted would not easilie quyte this forsayd follie to change superstition into religion as by lyke occasion was done for candles on candlemass day Vide Baron tom 1. pag. 606. and certain feasts conuerted to Gods honour that they might not be retayned against his honour Therfor in remembrance that we were redeemed by the lamb of God that taketh away the synns of the world who liued a virginal and innocent lyfe for our example and by his death sanctifyed our sowles by the spiritual vnction of the holy Ghost Vide Petrum Maffeū in 7. decretalium was by Christs sacred Spowse framed in resemblance of all these an image of a lambe in whyt virgin wax tempered with holy oyle Such image is called an Agnus Dei. Of which sort when to Charles the great was presented one by Leo the third he receaued it as was his dutie no otherwyse then a pretious treasure With no lesse pietie and deuotion also did the Emperor of Constantinople receaue one from Vrbanus the fift proceeding against it in a Solemne Procession of the Clergie and Laitie and carying it in a triumphant godly honour into the Citie These Emperours although very ancient were simple foolish Papists accompting such trashe in Protestant estimation and such sacred ressemblances in Catholick opinion worthie of all regard and reputation Should God almightie be so changeable as in the owld testament notwithstanding his forbidding to honour idols yet so to allow deuotion toward remembrances of his benefits as to honour Dauid for his pietie toward them and to punish 5070. Bethsamits only for curious viewing of them Oza for presumption to touche the case of them and now may not abyde remembrances of farr greater benifits performed by his deerly beloued Sonne but that they should be in his sight simple foolish trashe He that aduiseth nothing more then to haue vs remembre him and to place him as a memorial vpon our armes and harts therby to be euer in our eyes and vnderstandings he that for all greatest benifits fulfilled toward the Israelites admonished to erect monuments and holy dayes to retayne them in the minds of posteritie is he now lesse louing toward him selfe hath he now repented his courses and is become opposit to them that by external signes retayne his gifts in gratefull representations how farr against reason hath synn and heresie blinded and transported reasonable men to suspect God to be changeable in his proceedings because them selues are inconstantly variable So they that are borne against the streame do esteeme them selues stidfast and both the shore and townes and towers to moue by the mutabilitie of them selues Of holy Bread S. Paulinus and S. Hierome S. Paulinus in epist. 8. Hieron in v. S. Hilar Osbernus in v. S. Elphegi Conrad in in v S. VVolphelmi Theodoric in v. S. Hildegard lib. 3. c. 9. Metaphrast in Decembri in v. S. Marcelli Vide tom 3. Conc. l. pag. 569. and of later tymes S. Elphegus Archbishop of Canterburie S. Marcellus Abbot S. Hildegardis and many others haue affoorded so ample testimonie of the vertue and estimation of it that a thowsand Riders can not impayre the dignitie therof Nether can there be any thing more authentical then the forme of benediction therof vsed in Concilio Nannetensi Can. 9. in these woords O Lord our holy Father omnipotent eternal God vouchsafe to blesse this bread with thy sacred benediction that it may be to all health of body and sowle and a defense or protection against all diseases of sowle and bodye I would willingly haue all Catholick to hould it for a principal rule that were there no other authoritie to iustifie these holy hallowed things yet that they should esteeme them very gratefull to God by being impugned by such as M. Rider is For yf they did not displease and often displace Sathan he would not be so importunat in his followers to deride and disgrace them This rule haue I followed my selfe to my exceeding benifit to be more deuout toward such deuotions at which they are most discontented withall Catho Priests Lib. 8. cap. 5. Sozomen recounteth how a woman not beleeuing that Christ had transformed bread into his bodie was in danger by transformation of bread into a stone Rider 153. SOme such thing there is but you misse Sozomons words sentences and purpose and applie it still to your Host The priest told Sozomen that in giuing the Sacramentall bread to a woman shee tooke it in her hand and priuilie gaue it her maide behinde her which the maid no sooner toucht with her tooth but it turned into a stone Beleeue it that list and the print of the tooth is this day to be seene in Constantinople I pray you Gentlemen is this your Oste Christs bodie if it be as you teach but fie it is a false lie then were Christs bodie turned into a stone and to be seene at Constantinople vnder the formes of a stone as wel as at Rome vnder the formes of bread VVhether M. Rider or I Doe misreport the relation of Sozomen Fitzsimon 153. YOu haue gotten M. Rider the habit or facilitie and perfection of falsifying that now it is ingrafted in you as a second natural inclination It shal appeare now both toward Sozomen and the very sacred Scripture it selfe being both most shamefully corrupted The historie of Sozomen is thus
cap. 19. v. 13.14.15.16 the very selfe same had your two pillers Luther and Caluin in their intended miracles I therfore conclude with you in your owne woords at which for their importance you say in the margent lyke a fawkener Marke Vnlesse you can do these miracles the Catholicks must accompt you no better then iuglers c. Catho Priests I trust this will suffice for auerring the consent of the Catholickes with the Fathers of the primitiue Church which is the first Article we were prouoked to prooue Rider 190. I Know you are vtterlie deceiued and I trust this wil suffice the godlie learned and in different Reader that you and your late Romish Catholicks quite dissent from Christs truth and old Romes religion and therfore remember from whence yee are fallen and returne to the auncient truth while God giues you time which God graunt c. FINIS How suteable the last woords of M. Rider are to them of ancient Hereticks 160. FIrst you affirme that we are vtterly deceaued Fitzsimon As hetherto we haue through the whole writings of vs both discouered that we were neuer stronger then when you assured we were weake neuer truer then when you protested we were false neuer more approued then when you sayd we were most disproued neuer more secure then when you informed we were in greatest danger so now we may be certainly perswaded that we are in the right the rather for your proof-lesse saying that we are vtterly deceaued Yf you had not bene such as M. Sabinus Chambers testifyeth before and after you would neuer haue brought your Oxford conclusion ergo falleris therfore you are deceaued without some premisses or proofs Euery woman or child might say as much when they had no thing els to aunswer But I leaue your iudicial style to euery ones consideration and compassion To your conclusion I will confront lyke woords of owld damned hereticks Come o yee fooles sayd they and miserable men Vincent Lir. in libello con prophan heres who are commonly called Catholicks learne the true fayth which hath bene hidd many ages heretofore but is now reuealed and shewed of late c. What had we bene yf we had consented to them what proofe or vertue is more in your woords then in theirs Therfor because we yeelding to them should haue bene hereticks and haue but allurements from you no better then theirs also because many seducers are gone abroad we will refrayne you both alyke and remayne vpon the Rock to witt sayth S. Augustin the Romain Church S. Aug. de vtilitate credendi cap. 17. against which the prowd gates of hell shall neuer preuayle Conclusion WHen Luther did behould his wrytings to haue conueyed him into a laberinth of perplexities some tyme by their being censured by all Christendome for heretical and therby burned and he made odious sometyme by binding him selfe to manifould denials and affirmations which in processe of tyme he perceaued to be erroneous then in shamefull greefe he burst into these woords Libenter vidissem omnia mea scripta interijsse Luth. in presat Germ. sup r Tomos suos c. inter alias causas vna est quod exemplum me terret Quoniam non video quid vtilitatis Ecclesia coeperit cum extra super Biblia sacra plurimi libri colligebantur I willingly would see all my writings perishe and among other causes one is because the example of all my brethren whose writings benifit nothing doth terrifie me For I do not behould what proffit the Church hath receaued when out and beyond the holy Bible very many bookes were collected Which his saying together with what followeth doth manifest that Sathan and pryde transferred him captiue to his destruction For sayth he tom 2. Ien. fol. 273. Nunquam maiores grauioresque tentationes habui quam ex meis concionibus Cogitabam enim ista tu solus incepisti Ista tentatione sâ—pe ad insernum vsque demersus sum I neuer had greater and more greuous tentations then by means of my sermons For I thought thou only hast begon all this By this tentation I haue bene often swallowed into hell O heauie and dismal remorse and torment of conscience the greatest butcher and mangler of a guiltie mynde how wast thou not able to reclaime that hart which thou wast able so to deuoure Other greuous lamentations before his death for his vnhappie wrytings are testifyed in the examination of the Creed num 7. The lyke remorse had Beza when he sayd Vellem omnia scripta euulgata abolita esse quae paci concordiae obstare Beza in colloq Monpelgart pag. 260. aut veritatem obscurare videntur I would all wrytings published which seeme to be against peace concord or trueth were abolished Alas Beza so would I from the bottom of my hart that thou hadst thy demand both in such intention and in such execution not as was but as I should haue bene Such to haue bene the mynd of Melancthon is testifyed by Wolfangus Agricola conc de matrimonio when he sayd Nullius se digiti iacturam refugere si istum reuocare laborem posset Sed nunc se nimis profundè causae immersum nullum regressum inuenire He would not refuse the losse of any fingar yf he could reuoke his writings But now being so deeply intangled he found no retraict These lamentable and vnfortunat successes and terrour of damnation in the ende vpon and after their giddie courses when so great pillers of the deformed I would say reformed crue do acknowledge how often thinke you in his mynde doth M. Rider couet that he had neuer putt penne to Paper Oecolampad ad Lantgra Hess anno 1529. Vide Seleccerum parte 1. comment in Psal fol. 215. Oecolampad cryed Vtinam Princeps illustrissime abscissa fuisset mihi haec dextera cum primo inciperem de negotio coenae Dominicae quicquam scribere I would most excellent Prince this right hand of myne were chopped off when first I began to wryte any thing of the treatise of the Lords supper Renew renew the same crye M. Rider who first as is euidently shewed by inconsideration In Aduertisment n. 9. n. 130. insinuated you you your selfe I meane in playne tearmes all the state and Lords of the Concil to be fooles hereticks c. Secondly you directed vs to autheurs most repugnant to your profession testifying it to be against the Catholick Church and assuring Numero 3.4.6.114.143 vs to be therof and by so testifying leauing you forlorne and abandoned of all excuse or shadow of your apostasie and impietie in being against our beleefe 3. You haue by necessarie inferrence implyed your owne profession to be wicked and damnable late base and counterfet Num. 16.25.34 4. You haue betrayed your profession Num. 30.31 by the testimonie of all the cheefe of the same to a iurie condemning you and them 5. You haue violated corrupted depraued
the printing IN the Epistle Dedicatorie parag 5. for notable reade not able Par. 17. for Adde not only reade I Adde not only par 19. In the Aduertisement to the Reader par 7. for them learned reade the learned Par. 9. for obide reade abide Par. 12. for our our Ladie reade our Ladie In the Confutation pag. 3. for the 48. number reade the 34. number Pag. 6. dele the 1. vntruth pag. 7. add in the margent number 11. Rider Fitzsimons and so consequenter to the 34. number pag. 8. for en end reade entend Pag. 16. for ad reade and. pag. 19. for then reade them pag. 20. for binghter reade brighter For dowke reade darke ibid. pag. 24. For add read and. Pag. 29. for that not but reade that not I but. Pap. 31. for dissentions read dissentious Pag. 29. for nor in any reade yet not in any Pag. 34. for condeÌ„ned reade coÌ„mended Pag. 38. for so reade to For thy reade they ibid. For any wise to coÌ„sist reade any wise consist ibid. Pag. 47. for he reade be Pag. 51 for can be reade can not be pag. 56. for this my bodie reade this bodie Pag. 48. for doth is seeme reade doth it seeme Pag. 87. for fignum reade signum Pag. 132. for Damaso reade Damasco Pap. 155. for stood horses reade stond horses Pag. 166. for thus faith Church reade thus saith the Church Pag. 184. for shll eate reade shall eate Pap. 191. for vrgerd read vrged Pag. 199 for hearbe reade hearbes Pap. 211. for befott reade besott Pap. 213. for teare to reade to teare Pag. 261. for wo for pointing reade who for pointing Pag. 262. for port of those woordes reade part of those woordes Pap. 312. for Rider replye reade Rider replyes Pap. 339. for guggling stuffe reade iugling stuffe Pap. 340. for facultatem prabeat reade facultatem prebeat Pag. 342. for illus reade illius Pag. 344. for any great forwardnes reade any greate frowardes Pag. 364. for all to haue abused reade also to haue abused For if by your cursing read if by your coursing ibid. Pag. 388. for mare added reade more added Replye pag. 33. for from other perfections reade for other perfections Pag. 62. for if forged then is it calumnie read if forged secretly then c. Pag. 94. for seuerall courls read seuerall courts Pag. 105. for more then so yeares reade more then 50. yeares Pag. 113. for y t lawncing reade yet glawncing The Corrector to the Reader GEntle Reader there are some other faults which presuming vpon thy curtesie I omitt to amend as some times in some worde one leter for another somtimes one letter to litlâ— in a worde and somt mes one letâ—er to much If likewise thou finde any greater error I pray theâ— tâ— pardon it because I neuer had in two years space that this worke was in printing the helpe of the Author to reade or peruse any one sheete of all the labour Vale. A TABLE OF THE CHAPTERS CONTAINED IN THE FIRST VOLVME Intituled A Catholique Confutation c. THe Epistle Dedicatorie to the Catholiques of Ireland of all estates and degrees An Epistle of the Author to Master Iohn Rider An Aduertisement to the Reader A Catholique Confutation of M. Iohn Riders clayme of Antiquitie pag. 1. VVhether Romans and Catholiques be not all one pag. 2. VVhether Roman Priests be Catholique Priestes pag. 2. VVhether the cawse of omission of my Preface be trulie alleadged pag. 5. VVhether by Christs being in heauen his reall absence from the Church is proued pag. 7. VVhether corporall Communion doth exclude spirituall Communion pag. 8. VVhether our receiuing by faith be only a figure pag. 9. VVhether any ancient writer alloweth or mentioneth corporall receiuing pag. 10. VVhether our Religion be wicked and damnable if the Antiphonarie was corrected pag. 12. VVhether wickednes of Prelates be a lawfull coÌ„demnation of any Religion pag. 13. VVhether any late Reforming Patriarches were of commendable life pag. 14. VVhether S. Bernard reprehended Catholiques or Protestants of strange digressions pag. 19. Of many extrauagant digressions for want of matter pag. 20. The Preface in effect which was concealed by M. Rider pag. 25. VVhether it be not all one to say Scriptures or Fathers to be for any opinion as to say the Scriptures and Fathers to be for the same pag. 27. VVhether all Beleefe be contayned in the written woord of God pag. 29. VVhether M. Rider hath condemned his Church to be base bastard and counterfett pag. 30. VVhether we haue changed the state of the question or not and whether the Reall presence was euer denied by Protestants VVhether Protestants doe not falslie clayme the terme Spirituall And whether all the tearmes of their Supper be not redeemed from them pag. 36. The first proofe of Catholiques for the Reall presence out of the 6. of S. Iohn p. 39. How sacred Scriptures are exorbitantly depraued pag. 42. VVhether M. Riders vnanswerable argument be not vnanswerable euen by a childe to M. Rider infamie pag. 46. VVhat the benefitts are of the Protestant Communion and how they frustrate all Sacraments pag. 47. VVhether there be any opposition betwixt our Sacrament and Christ And whether by entring into our stomaches Christ be pained or hurt pag. 50. VVhether Christ treated of the Eucharist in the 6. chapter of S. Iohn pag. 52. VVhether euery Spirituall sentence or mention be a deniall of Corporall and Reall pag. 56. How and when M. Rider itterateth strang deductions arguments and reprehensions pag. 59. VVhether Christes woordes teache Christes fleshe to haue beene giuen only on the Crosse pag. 62. The second part of the Catholiques first proofe by Scriptures pag. 65. VVhether the Popes and Church of Rome doe in their Decretalls denie Christ in the Sacrament to be the same that was borne of the Virgin Marie pag. 66. Of M. Riders Arguments and their sufficiencie And how the 6. Chapter of S. Iohn doth belonge to the B. Sacrament notwithstanding it was before the Consecration pag. 70. The third part of the Catholiques first proofe by Scriptures pag. 71. VVhether the woordes Behould thy Mother had one like sense with the woordes This is my body pag. 72. VVhether Christes woordes doe testifie a change of nature And whether it was prophecied pag. 73. VVhen M. Rider citeth or omitteth our Authors pag. 75. VVhat blessing in the Sacrament is commendable pag. 79. That Protestants by their owne principles can not affirme Christ our Sauiour not to be spirituallie it selfe in the Sacrament Also that S. Aug. disproueth them pag. 83. How dishonestlie S. Ambrose is treated by M. Rider pag. 86. How the Fathers granting a Figure yet denie a Figure as it is taken by Protestants pag. 89. How Caietan and the Master of Sentences are by him falsified pag. 99. Of the Circumcisions being called the Couenant and the Paschal Lambes being called the Passouer as if the B. Sacrament no otherwise is to be called the bodie of Christ. pag. 103. How M. Rider doth auoide
Rider pag. 21. 7. Title whether the corporall presence of Christ wis hatched 1200. yeares after Christ. pag. 24. 8. Title whether Beda be falsified concerning Scriptures in the latin tongue pag. 25. 9. Title whether Caluins confession that the ancients a thousand three hundred yeares past commended prayer for the dead be true pag. 27. 10. Title whether it be true that I misaledged Fathers and alleadged fables to confirme the worship of Images pag. 32. 11. Title whether the Masse now vsed in the Church of Rome was knowen to the ancient Church pag. 33. 12. Title whether my proofes of the Popes Supremacie speake of the first fiue hundred yeares pag. 35. 13. Title of M. Riders blaming my omissions and attainting Luther of heresie pag. 37. 14. Title vpon the residue of the Rescript to the end pag. 43. To the temperate Protestant Reader pag. 46. An Aduertisement to M. Iohn Rider him selfe pag. 57. A testimonie of Henerie the fourth the french King of the integritie of Iesuits pag. 72. An exhortation to the constant Confessors of Christ now afflicted for Religion pag. 76. FINIS A REPLIE TO M. RIDERS RESCRIPT AND A DISCOVERIE OF PVRITAN PARTIALITIE IN HIS BEHALFE TOGETHER WITH A briefe narration why this Author him selfe renounced Protestantcie VVith sundrie important reasons tendered by him to the temperate Reader ALSO An Answere to sundrie Complaintiue letters of afflicted Catholiques Declaring the seueritie of diuers late Proclamations As of the speedie banishment of al Priestes Of death to them and their receiuers if any remayned Of the oathe of Alleigance Ransacking of Purseuants And of vtter ruine to any professing Catholique Religion AND Finallie A friendlie Aduertisement to M. Iohn Rider him selfe At Roan Anno 1608. A REPLIE TOM RIDERS RESCRIPT AND A DISCOVERIE OF PVRITAN PARTIALITIE IN HIS BEHALFE I being vnfaynedly disgusted Fitzimon in the trauersing of M. Riders vntruethes as being a subiect loathsome to any religiouse disposition preiudicial to other more conuenient imployments and hauing dispached my selfe of the Refutation belonging to his Caueat I thowght to take noe acquaintance of his last Rescript but to leaue him a spectacle to God Angels and Men by the only manifestations in such my answere alredie imparted But perceauing his sayd Rescript to be breefe and only to huddle vp controuersies by me alreadie discussed I will shape him a further succinct disproofe yet not only of him but also of the censure of the Puritan Collegists of Dublin How I showld name this his pamphlet I long dowbted till at leingth I found an occasion of naming it Postscript or Rescript in thes his woords of his Caueats preface My next treatise shall manifest it to the world by way of a postscript to which I wil annex a rescript What was promised in those woords was performed Riderialy What I sought for to witt the title of this discourse in those woords is tendred Rescript it seemeth rather to be tearmed as containing often rescription and reiteration of the same things 1 TO ALL PRIESTS IESVITES AND TO ALL OR ANY Rider that are so ordained by Romane authoritie or that fauour the same the grace of Gods sanctifying spirit touch your hearts that you may see the feeble foūdation of your new sandie-superstition and turne to Christes auncient Apostolicall Religion 1 Title Concerning the inscription of M. Riders Rescript 1 IT is by M. Rider made a reproach that preists Fitzimon and Iesuits are ordayned by Roman authoritie A happie reproach and more desyrable then the titles of Potentats For preists can not take that honor to them selues sayth the Apostle Heb. 5. And from whom cowld they more fittly receaue it then from him whom S. S. Ambros. in com ad 1. Tim. 4. Ambrose assureth to be rectorem domus Dei que est columna firmamentum veritatis the ruler of the howse of God which is the piller and firmament of trueth whom Iustinian the Empereur tearmeth primum omnium sacerdotum Iust. in Authenticis de eccles titulis collat 9. Conc. Chalced. Act. 16 the cheefe of all preists caput omnium sanctarum ecclesiarum the head of all holy Churches Whom the whole Calcedonian Concil in the yeare 480 intituleth caput vniuersalis ecclesiae the head of the vniuersal Church To whom S. Hierome boasting professeth Beatitudini tuae S. Hier. ep ad Damas. id est Cathedrae Petri communione consocior To thy Beatitude that is to the chayre of Peter I am consociated in communion Is not this rightly to incurre the curse vttered by the prophet Isaie woe to yow that call euil good Isa 5. good euil puting darkenes as light and light as darkenes putting bitter as sweete and sweete as bitter For what these Reforming men accompt honorable Io◠10.1 to enter into the flock and not by the doore and contrarywyse dishonnorable to be ordayned by Roman authoritie Trueth and owld Christianitie thowght therof the contrarie to wit such supposed dishonor to be as appeareth most honorable and their pretended glorie to be most ingloriouse For therupon Optatus in way of disdayne sayd Optat. de persec vand l. 2. to the Donatists vestrae cathedrae vos originem reddite qui vobis vultis sanctam ecclesiam vindicare declare to vs the begnining of your sea yow that arrogat the hauing of the holy Church S. Cypr. l. 1. ep 6. And S. Cyprian in like maner vpbrayded the Nouatians quia nemini succedentes à seipsis ordinati sunt because succeeding none they were ordayned of them selues In deede it is an heretical honor of Victor the Donatist Optat l. 1. con Parm. to be a sonne withowt a Father a soldiour without a Captain a disciple withowt a master a follower without a predecessor According to which honor yf M. Rider wil be a Lutheran he can name his ordination first from Luther from him to Melancthon from him to Pomeran from him to Maior from him to Schlusselburg yf a Caluinist he may begin at Farell from him to Caluin from him to Beza yf a Zuinglian from him to Bullinger from him to Peter Martyr from him to Gualter yf a Puritan from Cartwright and so ane ende yee yf he be a Puritan as he is openly detected to be Dangerouse positions pag. 113. he is bownde to renownce all other ordonāce as the Donatists renounced all other baptisme then it which was administred by them of their owne sect as the deposition of Richard Haugar manifesteth but it alone which is according the presbyterial disciplin But what nedeth this circuit M. Rider sayth as is often shewed that all Christians are preists alyke and consequently it importeth not whether he be ordred or not ordred in Rome or in the classe of Northampton Warwick or London wher Puritancie was most in fashioning So then we must let him remayne disordred or inordinat as best lyketh him selfe since that he abydeth not but to be out of the iurisdiction of
lesse friuolous them impertinent That wicked his that Opinion that by falsifications must be mantayned I thinke to be most true I would it had not only bene marginal but also textual as being more important and pertinent then any other parte of all this discourse Ephes. 4.25 For the which cause sayth the Apostle laying away lying speake yee trueth euery one with his neighbour But in this case I can not intreate you to omitt it S. Basil ep 10. vide ep 73. First because as S. Basil in a lyke case sayd mihi illud Diomedis subit dicere ne precâ—ris quoniam vir est improbus Nam procul duâ—to cum lenius tractantur animi elati solito insolentiores plerumque fieri solent To me the saying of Diomedes seemeth now to be sayd intreat him not because he is froward For hawtie mynds without dowbt by how much they are treated gently by so much for the most parte do they become more insolent For this M. Rider I can not intreate you to deale vprightly your disposition of it selfe being inexorable But the second cause is that lying is intrinsecal and inseparable to your profession Quasi apud lapsos prophanos extra ecclesiam positos de quorum pectoribus excesserit Spiritus sanctus esse aliud possit nisi mens praua S. Cypr. ep 69. fallax lingua odia venenata sacrilegia mendacia As yf sayd S. Cyprian with them fallen and prophane and placed owt of the Church from whose breasts the holy Ghost is departed anything els man befownd but a depraued mynde and deceitfull tong and venemouse hatreds and sacrilegiouse lyes But you may laye in our waye the late woords of S. Optatus That heynously attainting you at least lawfull proofes be not omitted I therfor saye that M. Edmond Buny confesseth our Church to be that from which you discend or are fallen which hath continued from the Apostles age to this present Luther also confesseth it in one of his last bookes Bunie in his treat to pacification tovvard the ende Omne bonum Christianum a papatu ad nos deuenisse All good of Christianitie to haue discended to them from papistrie To euery ones senses it is so euident Luth in lilâ—o in Anâ—baptiâ— that you are fallen from vs that I loath to declare it Then which reproach to be separated from vs (a) S. Aug. ep 42. l. 1. c. 5. de Symbolo ad Catech. tanquam sarmenta as chipps (b) â— Cyp. l. de vnitate ecclesiae tanquam ramos as branches (c) S. Opt. lib. 1. tanquam for as exuntes as departers foorth (d) Tertull. l. 4. con Marcion S. Vinc. c. 37. S. Iren. l. 3. c. 4. Isa 28.15 tanquam posteriores as later the holy Fathers S. Augustin S. Cyprian S. Optatus Tertullian S. Vincent Lirinensis S. Ireneus thowght none more vehement and ignominious against owld hereticks So theÌ„ it being proued that you are fallen from vs we are now to know that such wynd-shakes defend theÌ„selues as the prophet speaketh In making a lye their hope and protecting them selues by a lye Neque enim possunt laudare nos qui receduÌ„t aut expectare debemus vt placeamus illis qui nobis displicentes contra ecclesiam rebelles sollicitandis de ecclesia fratribus violenter insistunt For they that departe can not commend vs sayth S. Cyprian S. Cypr. ep 25. or should we expect that we should please them that displeasing vs as rebells against the Church doe violently imploy them selues in solliciting the brethren from the Church By which premisses is implyed that yf the cause be wicked that must be defended by lyes the cause of the lapsed of the departed or of the runnagats from Catholick religion must be wicked the cause of M. Rider being such apparently must be wicked the cause of one so often fownd in prodigious vntruthes must be wicked which may suffice for this point 10. Fourthly Rider That Images and praying to Saints were then neither taught by those Fathers nor receiued of the Catholicke Church Here Maister Fitzsymon according to his wonted manner saith That Images and Saints were worshipped but how fondly he endeuoreth to prooue his wrested opinion by misalledging Fathers and bringing in of fables I deferre to mention it hoping by your good perswasion he will mend it 10. Title VVhether it be true that I mis-aleadged Fathers and alleadged fables to confirme the vvorshipp of Images Fitzsimon 10. YOu haue M. Riders authoritie that I did both the one and the other but not without Riderian veritie that is to tell euer the contrary What I haue sayd of this mater in my first booke of the Masse will shew to euery one that Scriptures Fathers and Antiquities do iustifie and certifie the worship of Images Cap. 4. tit 5. beyond all occasion of my misalleadging Fathers and alleadging fables in confirmation of them But yf both new and owld Testament were produced to that effect yf all monuments of Doctors Fathers and Histories were it not easie to affirme without al proofe or probalitie contrarie to all certaintie and notwithstanding greatest remorse of fidelitie that all were but forged what idiot but might doe do as much to witt vpon his bare woorde to depestre him selfe thus of disproofs to denie more in one hower then all the learned in the world may proue in one age To that ende principaly that his omission be knowen to haue proceeded from a guiltie conscience and impossibilitie to aunswer my proofs to that effect I haue inserted the substance of them in the treatise of the Masse or els would here haue exhibited them For he that sought so seeliely to take howld on the testimonies of Beda Caluin c. where not withstanding as well occasion as apparence of all contradiction as is shewed most palpably wanted and yet followed them so eagerly what thinke you yf he would seeme wyse would he but glawnce at allegations yf they were in dede false and at relations that were without dout fabulouse But of his abusing the vnderstanding of readers by so palpable delusions so contentiously euery where maintayned besyd what is befor sayd some what may follow Yf it will please him or his consorts to be thankefull for a proffitable example therby to leaue these exorbitant forgeries by them vsed in liew of other aunswer I present this historie recorded by Cesarius and others toward their ameÌ„dment Caesar l. 3. c. 37. Ioan. Heroli ser 24. post Trinit Two marchants of Colen confessed to their ghostly father two fowle although ordinarie offenses lying and periurie in saying and swearing that among all others they alone had sound and cheape wares from places of greatest request from woorkmen of greatest fame from other perfections most esteemed in the meane tyme knowing that their wares in dede were inferior to them of their neighbours and had neuer bene from places woorkmen and other
hee scorne your brotherly admonition that bragge is a good dogge more tongue then teeth more talke then truth But you must needs deale with him by writing for otherwise in words he is too hard for a huÌ„dreth of you for you shall finde him old dogge in copia verborum and inopia rerum And thus hoping after your counsaile hee will leaue his woonted gadding rouings from the matter and follow me closely in euery line word syllable and letter as I haue and will doe him Christ willing I commend you him to the blessing of our mercifull God whom I beseech for his Christs sake so to touch your hearts from heauen that you all may renounce your new poperie and feare God in Christ with vs according to his Euangelical truth From my house in Saint Patricks Close this 30. of March 1604. Yours so farre as you are Christ and the Kings readie to treble these kindnesses IOHN RIDER A faâ—t escaped in the print namely quo for qua page 7 line 16. Tit. 14. Vpon the residue of the Rescript to the ende 14. NVllam authoritateÌ„ habet vti qui damnatus est daÌ„nat Fitzimon sayth Seneca his iudgmeÌ„t hath noe authoritie Sen. ep 77. wher he condemneth that is condeÌ„ned This sentence M. Rider hath not only force but ineuitable violence many wayes against you You pretend two hondred errors yet shew none and are besyd condemned by publick authoritie what credit wil be giuen by Catholicks to your words when Protestants discredit you The two hondred errors are but the spotts of cownterfet bloude vpon Iosephes coate Gen. 37. whom Iacob after will fynde vnspotted and know the deceitfull enuiouse brethren to haue bene as treacherouse in selling him as in lying to their parent by his coate And as for the point of miracles I beleeue it to be so aunswered as that M. Rider will blame no further want therof That I did not follow your counsell was the same mercie of God toward me which was toward the late named Ioseph that he followed not the allurements of his adulterous mistres S. Cyprian in conc Carthagin your reformations being a disloialtie toward the spouse of the Church and deuorcing your selues as concubins from trueth to follow licentious sects and errors Roboams example shall make me neuer to follow 3. reg 12.3 the yong mens conseil that is them that are vpstarts in religion such as straying are turned into vayne talke desyrouse to be Doctors of the law 1. Tim. 1.7 not vnderstanding nether what things they speake nether of what they affirme I haue chosen for my cownselor the woord of God to be my compase and card in his holy arke by which I learne to diuert and plye from you as from the rocks and shelfs of certain ruine by these sea marks following placed at your entrie Obserue those that make dissensions and scandals contrary to the doctrin which you haue learned Rom. 16.17 1. Ioan. 2.24 Galat. 1.9 Hebr. 13.9 Rom. 16.17 That which you haue heard from the beginning let it abyde in you Yf any preach otherwyse then you haue alreadie receaued be it accursed Be not mislead by variable and strange doctrins Auoyd them for such do not serue Christ our Lord but their owne bellie and by sweete speeches and benedictions seduce the harts of innocents By thes cownsels I was preuented from being cownseiled by you Auolent quantum volent paleae leuis fidei Tertull. l. de prescrip quocunque afflatu tentationum Let the chaff of light fayth be borne away as farr as they list with euery breath of tentation let the blinde be guided by the blinde Mat. 15 14. into the same snare let wauering children be caried abowt with euery wynde of doctrin Ephes. 4.14 in the wickednes of men in craftines of the circumuention of error Let the denyers of knowing Christ his woorde blush Mar. 8.38 Luc. 9.26 Ecclâ— 6.10 shrinke to acknowledg him in this adulterous and synfull generation let the trenchoure frend depart in tyme of tribulation Isa 51.12 2. Tim. 2.12 Mat. c. 10.38 c. 16.24 Luc. 9.23 c. 14.27 let the timorouse for a mortall man that is to wither as haye forget his maker As for me I hope to raigne with Christ therfor I know I must sustaine with Christ I pretend as a disciple to follow Christ therfor I must take vp my crosse hate my father and mother Mar. 8.38 Luc. 9.26 2. Tim. 2.12 wyfe and children brethren and sisters yea and my owne lyfe in comparison of him I attend not to be denyed of Christ before God and his angels 2. Tim. 4.8 therfor I know I must not deny him or be ashamed of him befor men I aspire to a crownee of iustice therfor I must indeuoure to fight a good fight Rom. 8.39 to consummat my course to keepe my fayth For conclusion I say that nether death nor lyfe nor angels nor Principalities nor powers 1. Cor. 10.13 nor things present nor things to come nether might nor height nor depth nor other creature by the mercie helpe of my faitfull God that will neuer suffre vs to be teÌ„pted aboue our power shal be able to separat me from the charitie of God which is in Christ Iesus our Lord nor to conforme me to the cownsaile of the reformed sedition You affirme that you must deale with me in print and not by woord Prou. 6.2 because I am to hard for a hondred in speech I say that illaqueatus es verbis oris tui captus proprijs sermonibus you are ingaged by the woords of your owne mowth and taken by your owne talke You can not conceale the confusion you had euer in talking with me when at euery woord I disproued and disturbed your conceits which yow heedfully prouided to happen most seldome and spedely to be abrupted I do but appeale to M. Tristram Eccleston Constable of the Castle whether it was so or noe Yf he will not disgrace his goss sip at least M. Alderman Iyans M. Luke Shee esquyer and others can tell the plundge you and Minister Baffe wallowed in at our last meeting So then to God be the glorie and neuer to me you felt the brunt of my woords at that tyme by your owne confession to be irrefragable As for the print you prouided not to tast how it would haue proued but how you should haue felt it yf you would haue indured the trial I leaue to be iudged now that I might without you permission make it knowen What or how much or how litle that wil be to your proffit I trust at lyke opportunitie you will certifie as you haue now done of my woords To perclose the whole and to conclude the late points pertinently in token that I ame not very selfe conceited as euer befor I haue desyred to speake rather in the woords of Scripture and Fathers then my owne so I will now
be dowbtfull The vse of conditional baptisme is more ancient Quoties non inueniuntur firmi testes qui eos absque vlla dubitatione baptizatos esse dicant nec ipsi per etatem de sibi tradito mysterio apte respondere possint debere baptizari Sexta synod can 84. Idem habetur Conc. Cartag 5.6 Conc. Affric c. 39. Conc. VVormat c. 70. Suruey pag. 88. f 112. not to haue bene vsed conditionaly befor the yeare 1161 g 106. not to be more necessarie then formerly circumcision Of Godfathers and Godmothers Godfathers and Godmothers to be papistical such to be only witnesses and not suerties Of Confirmation Confirmation to be a corrupt following of the Apostles the same to be vnwarranted vnprofitable Suruey pag. 128. 129. Hampton Conference pag. 10. idle Vainly made by Englishe Protestants a Sacrament with imposition of handes Suruey pag. 117. 118. Additions to the late Catechisme E. avvn 3. as a signe signing and sealing and an inward spiritual grace Of the Eucharist a Suruey pag. 129. Communion by Luke 22.29 to belonge to all Christians and that by Act. 20.7 on each sonday b Cartvvright l. 1. pag. 158. Aunsvver to the petition pag. 11. A Ministers exposition or sermon to be an essential parte of Communion c Suruey pag. 117. The supper to be a maintenance of our spiritual regeneration Of Penance No sinnes forgiuen but by being not imputed Suruey pag. 87. pag. 116. Hamp Confer pag. 28. Suruey pag. 116. by Rom. 4.7.8 No synnes in any once iustifyed to neede repentance or to depriue from grace Of Ordre Bishops to be members not of Christ a The Arraignment of Barrous 20. Apr 1593. but of the deuil and of Antichrist b Alison against Puritans artic 15. Ministers of the words to liue by almes only c Barrovves arraignment The Church to haue no head in earth d Alison artic 14. No oathes to be taken befor Bishops but only befor magistrats e Ibid. art 12. Euery priuat man to haue licence to preach and expownd the Scriptures f Hampt Confer pag. 34. Suruey p. 114. Bishops not only Ministers of Confirmation g Suruey pag. 89. The name of priests in all the new testament neuer to belong to the Ministers of Christ h Suruey pag. 5. Hamp Conf. p. 36. Bishops Deanes Archdeacons as such to be noe members of the Church I Suruey pag. 127. Them to haue noe proofe of Scripture k Cartvvr Admonition tr 2. 3. All that prowd generation must downe Of Marriadge Suruey pag. 132. Matrimony euen by English protestants is vaynly made a Sacrament and God therby made a liar Of Extreame vnction Suruey pag. 129. Extreame vnction also by English protestants most absurdly to haue bene practised and prescribed in the 2. of Edw. 6. Of Sacraments in general a Suruey pag. 120. 121. Falsely to be sayd in latest Catechismes euen of English Protestants Sacraments to be necessarie to saluation b Ibid. as allso the said Protestants to implye wrongfully the beinge of more then two Sacraments c Suruey pag. 104. also them to err in saying Sacraments to be meanes of grace and not only pledges Of assembling to Churches Barrovves arraigument 20. Apr. 1593. The assembling of people to Churches by ringing bells to be Antechristian Of Ceremonies Suruey pag. 98. 99. Hampton Confereuce pag. 67 No ceremonie only significant and not sealing in the gospel Yet in Hampton conference they affirmed the contrary Hadd I not bene depriued of the often mentioned Suruey by some deceites as also of the collections I had therout gathered I had produced many lyke artickles of Puritance which vpon recouerie of the said book shal after God willing be recorded Now to their disprouing of their bretherens beleef Puritans against the late profession of England a Brovvghtons Aduertisement to the Lo. of the Counsell of corruptions Anno 1604. The publicke Englishe translation causeth millions of millions to reiect the new testament and to runne to eternall flames b Ibid. It peruerteth the holye text of the owlde testament in eight hundred and eight places c Ibid. It is inferiour to the Alcaron d Hampton Conference pag. 45. 46. 47. The Englishe Bibles ill translated all together and them according Geneua to be the worst e Ibid. They containe very partial vntrue and seditious notes to much sauouring of traiterous conceits as of allowing disobedience to Kings and taxing Asa for deposing his mother and not killing hir A b c a Ther is no right religion established in England b They be all infidels that goe to late Churches of England The tvvo Admonitions to the parlament c It shal be easier for Sodom and Gomorrha in the daye of iudgment then for the courte of Parliment by which the Protestant religion was confirmed d Alison articulo 4.5.6.7.8 The English congregation consisteth of all sortes of vncleane spirites and is no membre of Christ e Ibidem The regiment thereof is vnlawful Perpetual Gouernement of the Church pag. 339. alleadgeth much more of this kinde and Antechristian f Ibidem Their Sacraments no Sacraments g Ibidem It is a very Babilon Puritan Articles against State owt of the aunswer of Oxford and Cambridge to their petition pag. 28. 29. 1. That the supereminent authoritie of the Kinge must be confined within the limmits of some particular parish and then to subiect his souerainge power to the pure Apostolical simplicity as of an ouerswaying and all-commanding Presbiterie 2 That his meeke and humble Cleargie haue power to binde their kinge in chaines and their Prince in lincks of iron and in case they see cause to proceede against him as against a Tyrant 3 All appeales in causes ecclesiasticall and what doe they not make ecclesiasticall must finallye lye not vnto the Prince but vnto the assemblie Prouinciall 4 That they allow the supreame magistrate not potestatem Iuris but only Facti to mantayne their proceedings but not to command that finaly the King submitt his scepter vnto the scepter of Christ and licke the dust of the Churches feete Lastly that some of high place yet aliue and othersome dead haue felt the smart of this their professed doctrine in their owne experience and haue seene the worst of all this put in execution Thus farr out of their owne euidences I blame them not here to confesse that some aliue haue seene the worst of all these putt in execution considering first in France how in Geneua and Cabillon Genebrard ad An. 1560. 1567. 1570. 1575. Petr. Frat. orat con Sectarios def Reg. Relig. they not priuatly but synodicaly resolued the killing of King Queene Princes and nobilitie the spoiling of all the Churches in France Secondly how by their two first ciuil rebellious on both sydes in France only were slayne aboue a
is it glorious to them to imitat Iudas Cōcerning the Gentleman R. S. of whō you informe I admired litle that he who now aboue six yeares had imitated their dissolute and libert in lyfe should at leinth professe their barren and broad beleefe For Abyssus abyssum inuocat One depth tēdeth to another And as Cicero sayd Cic. erat ad Brut. Est in quibusdam tanta peruersitas vt inuentis frugibus glande vescātur In some so great is the peruersitie that hauing fownd corne yet they choose to feede on ackorns So did the prodigal childe forsake the abundance of bread in his fathers house to feede on husks among swyne Alas that the brāch of so noble a stock should sequestre it selfe frō the lyfe-giuing vyne Ioan. 15.5 and ent or graffe it selfe in the dead solifidiā figtree vpō which Christ finding but leaues only sayd neuer grow ther fruict of thee for euer And in which as Ecclesiasticus affirmeth Mat. 21.19 Eccl. 34.11 he that is implanted or graffed will abownd with wickednes I will humbly request almightie God that he resemble not the dissolute yong man whom the comical Poet long since thus discribed Imberbis iuuenis tandem custode remoto Horat. de arte poëtica ante medium gaudet equis canibusque aprici gramine campi cereus in vitium flecti monitoribus asper vtilium tardus prouisor prodigus eru sublimis cupidusque amata relinquere pernix The beardles youth his Regent lost to horse and hound inclines to wander rownd thirsting for new contents Plying to vice peruers to his aduisers sound lauish playing with vnthrifts all his goods and rents Hawtie wanton wauering hedlong to new intents But how is not their triumph lamentable that reioyce of his falling into their miserie It being sayd long since by Christ Euerie branch in me not bearing fruict Ioan. 15.2.6 such as lōg tyme he hath bene knowē to be he will take it away Agayne yf any abide not in me he shal be cast foorth as the branch and shall wither Their extremitie is to be deplored who when they purchase the only withered and cast away branch the light chaffe and noe sound graine of corne the dead carcasse and noe liuing membre they applaud as at a riche prise Let vs at least amend his conditions Which as I daylie craue at Gods diuine bountie so I most instantly commend it to the ernest prayers of all that shall heare or reade this awnswer Afflicted Chatolicks 3. During their preparations continual threats were blundred abroad that Papistrie was now with all spede to be abolished that the gospel was to be established that euery one maugre his profession should come to Church c. Churches were repaired vpon such assurance Ministers and their wiues and children as also promoters and Catch powles tooke vpon them higher lookes and furnished them selues with vnwonted apparell and other prouisiō in confidence of their increased reuenues VVhat soeuer we had ether land or house or horse or iewell c. they eyed and predestined to them selues ether by way of fyne or bribe or morgage The Author FIrst concerning their vaunt to extinguish religion they did noe more then befor them Diocletian and Maximian who were then the only and most potent infidel Emperors of the whole world These two imployed all their witts and power to suppresse Christianitie which beyond all admiration augmented by suffering and preuailed by destruction When the two Roman Emperors so opposing them selues would not seeme to haue imployed their trauail in vayne they hauing commanded all Christiās through all places to be most cruely tormented to death Finaly to persuade that they had vanquished they for perpetual memorie of their noble victorie caused to be ingrauē in marble pillers among other titles of glorie Nomine Christianorum deleto Baron tom 2. Anno. 304. pag. 850. edit an 1591. The name of Christians abolished Superstitione Christi vbique delet◠cultu Deorum propagato The superstition of Christ in all places extinguished the worship of the Gods amplified But finding by dayly experience that sanguis martyrum erat semen Christianorum The bloud of martyrs was the seede of Christians Tertul. ad scapula◠in Apologetic◠and that they did striue against the streame they both together for saueing of their credits surrendred their imperial dignitie concealing which after was knowen the cause to haue bene that trueth and pietie had vtterly confownded them Lyke was the dismal threat as also lyke impietie and lyke successe of Luther saying That yf he might preach but two yeares longer his euangelical doctrin Cochleus in Actis Lutheri anno 1525. there should not be fownd Pope Cardinal Bishop Monke Nunne steepel Bell Masse c. Yet experience disproueth this Prophet notwithstanding his preaching two and twentie yeares beyond the prefixed tearme there being neuer more filial affection toward Pope more officiousnes toward Cardinals more subiection toward Bishops more reuerence toward monks more beneuolence toward Nunns more expense toward Churches steeples and Bells and more feruent deuotion toward the dreadfull sacrifice of the Masse then is now at this present being aboue a hondred yeares after Luthers vayne prediction But while they vainly vawnt against our profession they vnfainedly acknowlege one to another which in vayne they conceale it being to euery one notorious that them selues do sensiblie vanish Heshusius in epist de exorcismo I call to witnes their owne woords Quoquo vertimus oculos intuendo Christi cetum nihil propemodum occurrit quam noua docentium dissidia incrementa errorum insignium doctorum defectiones à veritate Whersoeuer we turne our eyes behoulding the troupe of Christ almost nothing is so frequent as new dissentions of our teachers increased errors Silnec in praefat in Catal. Concil A 4. and recantations of our principal doctors Another sayth suggestus sordescere mihi incipiunt in quibus odia ista venenata contentiones ruinam spectantes deprehenduntur Pulpits begin to disgust me wherin such poisoned hatreds and contentions tending to ruine are obserued Ioan. Spangebergius in sua vera informat Iene an 1562. Another sayth I am deinceps nolunt Deum agnoscere Hence forward they will acknowledge noe God to witt because they decline from their protestant profession which lately they had receaued But this notorious decaie is acknowledged in expresse tearmes by Nicholaus Gallus Gallus in praef Apol. Maiestatis hom Christi saying perit iusto Dei iudicio non armis hostium non inuictis hereticorum armis vera à nobis religio ecclesia sed nostrorum inter nos perfidia infidelitate incuria By the iust iudgment of God true religion and the Church doth perish not by armes of enemies Amsdorf in publica confessione VVormatia 1557. not by arguments of hereticks but by our owne treacherie infidelitie carelesnes Finaly sayth Amsdorff omnia nihil prae se ferunt aliud quā
begon and stifflye retrayned against the Apostolick Romain and Catholick beleefe God graunt Fare yee well AN ADVERTISMENT TO THE READER THIS Disputation was occasioned the 29. of September 1600. by means of M. VVilliam Nugent an honorable and learned Esquyer at the table of M. Ihon Rider tearmed Deane of S. Patricks The sayd M. Nugent maintayning no diuersitie of beleefe or Religion to be betwixt the Catholicks of these tymes and the primatiue Catholicks of the tymes of the Apostles Contrarie to which assertion the forsayd M. Rider affirmed that the difference was as great as betwixt Protestancye and Papistrie because the first Catholicks by his saying had bene Protestants Vpon these two seueral affirmations they both agreed to abyde a lawfull resolution of the learned whiche yf it should iustifie M. Nugents perswasion then M. Rider would recant Yf it could not then M. Nugent would become a Protestant 2. To haue the forsayd resolution a counterfet letter as from doubtfull Catholicks toward six articles therin specifyed was addressed to all Priests Iesuits Seminarists bearing date the 21. of October 1600. by way of prouocation requyring them to aunswer therto as they teÌ„dred the credit of their Religon the conuincing of Protestants and the satisfying of poore consciences which aunswer was to be exhibited within three monethes next insuing To be briefe It was partly referred and partly imposed that I should decide this controuersie as well as one in prison sequestred from all communication of my brethren and diuers otherwayes disabled and hindred of my slender capacitie in so short a tyme might accomplishe 3. I hauing accordingly dispatched briefe collections of Scriptures Fathers and euidences of most principal Protestants as well of England as of other Contryes and obserued such ordre as from tyme to tyme I layd open befor all behoulders their euident demonstrations that the cause of M. Nugent was iust and the contrary altogether vntrue I sent them the 2. day of Ianuarie in the name of Catholick preists of IrlaÌ„d by my cosen M. Michael Taylor Gentleman who deliuered them presently to M. Rider 4. Great contentment was dissembled at the sight of our aunswer great thanks great promises to replye with lyke expedition The 6. of Ian. he repayred to me in the Castle applauding to the forsayd aunswer that it was beyond his expectation Yet that he would reioyne therto yf it might be approued by my name and subscription I mistrusting badd measure by such demand remayned slack to condiscend therto Manifowld protestations were made as also in his letter to that effect of great goodwill to pleasure and benifit and no intention to indomage therby Vpon which flattring but especialy to honour my Sauioure Iesus Christ and his inuincible Church I gratifyed him with my approbation and subscription not fearing death or danger for my Profession 5. Notwithstanding his former promise of expedition in three monethes almost thrise trypled appeared noe replye to suche our aunswer Also contrary to his promise he published his replye the 28. of September 1602. Befor euer he had acquainted me therwith that I might not haue had in redines my aunsuer to confront it When at last euery extended hand yea many auoyding hands were filled with his replye vnder the name of Caueat then in that liberal dole I also was presented with one copie Wherat considering the tenoure therof I stoode amazed as Polidor virgil sayth of him selfe when he beheld the historie of Hector Boethius lyke one that had seene a beare whelping In fyne I aduertised him selfe within 48. howers that yf he would aduenture to purchase me libertie of books a cleark to ingrosse my wrytings and communication with my brethren I would ioyne issue with him euen before the right honorable Deputie and Counceil yea also before his owne pew-fellowes of the College that yf I did not conuince suche his Caueat to be frawghted and intirely replenished with falsifications deprauations corruptions gnorance and impietie I would abyde any their voluntarie appointed penaltie and punishment whatsoeuer 6. This sharpe admonition vrged him as I desired and preconceaued to propounde the sute to the State They of their bountie accorded that at his discretion books accesse and printe should be allowed me Books I confesse to haue had curteously from the College A clarck also and that only I obtayned Other communication but especialy the print was debarred me not withstanding al possible intreatie 7. They who are euer prouoking to disputatioÌ„ when they are â—â—re it can not succeed by impediments obiected by them selues â—â—rthering it with a fingar hindring it with an arme preteÌ„ding â—easons in stedd of reasons trusting much more inclusions and â—â—trusions them learned coÌ„clusions by no meanes possiblie could 〈◊〉 induced to an encountre against my selfe the meanest among a â—owsand by all the vehemencie I could inuent to incense them Luth. ep 5. ad Philip MelaÌ„ct Iulij 20. anno 1530. in tom Germanico Ienenjâ— â—nd such was Luthers confession in playne tearmes when he â—erceaued the Catholicks to haue coÌ„discended to a disputation 〈◊〉 haue protected all commers therto saying Postea quaÌ„ isthaec menâ—â—cissima diaboloruÌ„ capita ludunt in permittendo ConciliuÌ„ liberuÌ„ sic volo ego 〈◊〉 eis ludere voloque ab eoruÌ„ somnijs appellare ad illud ipsum CoÌ„cilium quod tameÌ„â—nquaÌ„ futuruÌ„ est vt ego intereà in pace agam After that those lying heads of euils doe dally in permitting a free Council I will also appeal from their â—eams appealing to the selfe same CouÌ„ncil which not with standing will neuer 〈◊〉 that I in the meane tyme may be in peace Behould I say their maner â—xpressed by their Patriarch to dally to appeale to delude in â—rouoking to a disputation without any desire to attayne it and with setled purpose by one excuse or other finaly to auoyd it 8. I will breefly comprise some part of such my mentioned inâ—igations to haue them into a playne feeld coÌ„tayned in my leters â—o themselues The kingdome of God is not in words but in vertue 1. Cor. 4.20 Therfor 〈◊〉 most earnestly craue and instantly requyre to come off to some indifferent â—urse and playne grownd by some coÌ„mendable disputation Yea I adiure you 〈◊〉 the confidence you haue in your cause by the trust that you will haue giuen 〈◊〉 your protestations that you nether delaye nor declyne the performance therof â—or my parte of the abundance of my harte my mouthe so speaketh and from my â—art to my hand and from my hand to the eyes and eares both of the most honoâ—able L. Deputie as also to them of the college I haue exhibited my supplication 〈◊〉 that effect Agayne But to vrdge you M. Ryder the more I vndertake 〈◊〉 maintayne that you are wrongfull to scriptures next to your owne fathers â—nd thirdly to ours Also to conceale and dissemble trueth you haue wrested the â—â—stimonies cleane contrary to the authours mynds making their denials to be