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A94720 The female duel, or The ladies looking glass. Representing a Scripture combate about business of religion, fairly carried on, between a Roman Catholick lady, and the wife of a dignified person in the Church of England. Together with their joynt answer to an Anabaptists paper sent in defiance of them both: entitled the Dipper drowned. / Now published by Tho. Toll Gent. Toll, Thomas. 1661 (1661) Wing T1776A; Thomason E1813_2; ESTC R209780 171,193 328

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dead and that he sent two thousand Drachmes of silver to Jerusalem to offer a sin-offering doing therein very well and honestly in that he was mindeful of the resurrection for if he had not hoped that they that were slain should have risen again it had been superfluous and vain to pray for the dead and also in that he perceived that there was a great favour laid up for those that dyed godly it was a holy and good thought whereupon he made a reconciliation for the dead and that they might be delivered from sin 2 Tim. 1.16 18. But if you will deny the authority of this book you will not sure deny that of S. Paul who prays for the whole household of Onesiphorus some whereof were dead in all probability and Onesiphous himself dead in history before the writing of that Epistle wherefore he prays to the Lord to give mercy unto them and that Onesiphorus himself may finde mercy of the Lord in that day it is plain from hence that there is a capacity for mercy at the lastday by consequence therefore there must be a third place that is nesther Heaven nor Hell and so by consequence again prayer for the dead must be a a very good devotion and available to the case and release of those poor souls And to this truly if all Scripture were perfectly silent the practise of the Church of Christ has been cleer and universal that no prudent Christian can deny his assent if he be not resolved to shake the very foundations of Christianity it self which the gates of bell shall never prevail against Thus my Lady having dispatcht her answer and replies to this paper made hast to open the next which she found to this purpose following Madam this is the last paper that I shall be bold to offer to your Ladiship which indeed might have served for all the rest for it striks at the very root of all your Religion and what a pitiful weak and sandy foundation you have you shall see if you shall please impartially to confider what followes That your Pope or Bishop of Rome is not nor can be head of the Church of Christ nor S. Peter successor as you pretend nor has any priminary or superiority over other Bishops I prove out of Scripture thus 1 S. Rom. 12.5 Paul tells the Romans plainly that we being many are one body in Christ and every one members one of another Heer the Apostle acknowledgeth no head but Christ and concludes Peter to be as much a member as any one of the faithfull and that not onely in respect of Christ we are members but in respect of our selves is cleer by those words every one members one of another so that Peter Pope or Bishop be he what he will is not onely a member of the body of the Church as he has relation to Christ the head but as he does relate to the other faithfull members 2 Again as the head and the other members make up one entire naturall body 1 Cor. 12 so Christ and his Church make up one entire mysticall body which is so made up of head and members as the Apostle tells us therefore all others besides Christ who is the head are but members of the body of the Church and none but Christ can be the head of the Church 3 We finde in the Gospells Math. Mark Luke John that Jesus Christ does equally commend the care of his Churh to all his Apostles for he said to all the rest as well as Peter as the father sent me so send I you again go ye and teach all Nations c. then again we know that he did teach and instruct them all equally and sent the holy Ghost to them all equally and indifferently at the time of Pentecost therefore Peter had no priveledge nor prehemminence over the rest 4 S. Gal. 2.11 Paul tells us that when Peter was come to Antioch he withstood him to the face because he was to be blamed therefore Peter was not then taken for the head of the Church For S. Paul had he beleived that would not have shewed such arrogancy and perversness as to resist the head of the Church in such an open manner 5. Then it is manifest that the Church of Christ could not be built upon the person of Peter for then the gates of Hell had prevailed against it and him when he was terrified from his faith by the voice of a silly wench And so by consequence it cannot be built upon his successors who are dayly guilty of such personall crimes 6 Again we finde that the Church of Christ is built upon a Rock and that Rock was Christ 1 Cor. 3. 1 Cor. 10 therefore it could never be understood of Peter for another foundation can no man lay besides that which is already laid as the Apostle tells us 7 Then it is very disputable whether Peter was ever at Rome and sure we are out of Scripture that he was eighteen years at least after our Saviours passion in and about Jerusalem where was then the Romane Church 8 Then again how could Peter be the Rock upon which he would build his Church when our Saviour himself said to him Mat. 16. get thee behind me satan he never intended sure satan should be the head of his Church as it is too much to be feared he makes himself now to be of yours 9 We cannot finde that S. Peter did ever exercise any power or jurisdiction over the other Apostles Acts 8. but they did plainly over him when they sent him and John into Samaria 10 Again Peter knew fullwell that such a power or superiority was expresly forbiden by our Saviour himself Mat. 20.25 Mark 10.46 Luke 22.24.25 in all the Gospeles you know saith he that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentils exercise Lordship over them and their great ones exercise authority upon them but so shall it not be amongst you but whosoever will be great amongst you shall be your Minister who soever of you will be the cheifest shall be servant of all All which our Saviour spok rebuke a strife that was amongst them who should be the greatest Nay it is plain by the Text in all those Gospells that it is onely for the Kings and rulers of the Earth to take upon them power and Authority Bishops therefore of the Church have nothing to do with it therefore not the Pope 11 Nay our Saviour shews such a detestation of this affected superiority that he rebukes the Diciples for it and warnes them against it in severall other places of the Gospells and set a little child before them and tellls them Mot. 18.4 Mark 9.46 that whoosever shall humble himself as that little child the sames is greatest in the Kingdome of heaven c. How well your Pope is an immitator of Jesus Christ and follower of his commands I will leave your self to judge who takes upon him
must be made wider to receive them These are the devotes of this age that spend a fourth part of their life in dressing and besmearing themselves to make themselves gross in one part and little in a nother to raise terrets on their heads and shackles on their hands and heels to be as solicitous about adress as if they had a Venetian Common-wealth to manage Then they are so imperious and proud withall that they must be no more offended than those Stars which are thought to send tempests upon such as have not humbly saluted them So many hundred Communions and exhortations have not taken off one hair of their vanities they will eat the immortal Lamb once or twice a week it may be and yet daily upon all occasions they will become Lionesses in their houses They will lay the holy Eucharist on their tongues as the seat of the spouse and yet will not bridle or restrain them from one evil word and will speak more slanders in one dinner time then they eat morsels This was the reason sure that Solomon so divinely assures us Prov. 19. domus divitiae dantur a parentibus a domino autem uxor prudens houses and riches come from Parents but a wise and virtuous wife from the hand of God and such doubtless as Solomon speaks of were our divine Duelists here as for the Doctors wife here she was not after the rate of other Parsons wives who must always be the best women in the parish and take place of their Landlords and Patrons wives if they be not Ladies forsooth and wear better cloths two then they no her husband was not of the common rate of Churchmen neither who take a pleasure to employ the patrimony of Jesus the sweat and blood of the faithful in good cheer excess and play and suffer their Churches to fall to decay the Altars to become naked the windows shivered to pieces the walls to weep and Spiders there to spin their webs Rats to run up and down and the poor of their parish famish whilest I know not what little wives or wenches drag silk at their heels at the charge of the Crucifix Nor was our Roman Catholick Lady here of a much different make being a true widdow indeed and wholly taken up with hospitalities and charities notwithstanding she was always under a most severe persecution here for her conscience Vinegar is said to be used for precious stones which have their fire frozen over and their luster ecclipsed so she was to have a little touch of acerbity to enlighten her virtues she was indeed like a Pearl that comes from the salt sea and beheld her self involved almost from her birth in great perplexities and horrible confusions of the age from whence she alwaies arose with so much luster as she made still her adversities to be steps to the Temple of glory Sports and feasts were punishments to her she was seldome found in the company of men unless it were some beggers whose miseries she relieved and persons assisted in sickness and in health Her whole heart went towards God her feet to the divine service her hands to alms her eyes to reading books of devotion her arms to the exercise of huswifry and works of her sex and her whole body to the sacrifices and victims of her soul Thus because I was obliged not to publish our Duelists names I have been bold to give you an imperfect character of some of their qualities which I hope will discharge you of a prejudice against their following discourses and obtain at least a pardon from them if not acceptance from you which I should most humbly beg likewise that your candour would please to bestow upon the Publisher Your most humble Servant THO. TOLL THE FEMALE DUEL Or the Ladies LOOKINGLASS Representing a Scripture combate about business of Religion THe occasion of this feminine encounter is related thus Mirs N. wife to a Dr. of Divinity and a dignified person in the Church of England a woman highly honored by all her neighbours for her Religion virtue and discretion came one day to visit my Lady M. of the same Parish though of another perswasion yet equally esteem'd for her great piety and prudence a Person wholly made up of charity and good neightbourhood and was truly that widdow indeed which S. Paul would have Now after the common complements of such visits were past between the Doctors wife was pleased to assault her Ladyship with these or the like words Mrs. N. Madame it would prove I fear but a pitiful piece of flattery I me sure impertinency to tell your Ladyship how much you are beloved and honour'd by all your neighbours for those great charities and hospitalities that your goodness is pleased here daily to dispence amongst us for your Ladyship cannot but know it your self But one thing now I must be bold to tell your Ladyship which it may be you yet know not and I presume your excellent good nature will not be offended at it for I am sure it proceeds from a true zeal to your Ladyships service Lady M. Truly Mirs N. you needed not have troubled your self with so much apology to usher in your discourse you know that I love nothing like a friendly neighbourly freedome and faults as I know I have enough so I desire to hear and to amend Mrs. N. Nay Madame it is no fault that by your Ladyships favour I am about to tell you but a meer misfortune onely and so it is humbly conceived by all those that as I said before do so cordially love and honour your Ladyship and might be with as much ease and happyness to your self remedied as we all do apprehend L. M. Deer Mrs. N. I prethee make hast to take me off the thorns of my longing expectation to know the issue of your desires and I 'le promise you faithfully my best endeavours to the very utmost of my power to render you and all the world besides what satisfaction is desired in that particular Mrs. N. O madame that you would so say and hold I should then be the happiest woman in the world Lady M. Why Mrs N. I hope you never yet found me worse then my word I pray you therefore be cleer with me and you shall be sure of an equal return Mrs. N. Why then dear Madame give me leave to say that I am but the voyce of many thousands more who have so perfect a love and honor for your Ladyship that they would think their lives too little to serve you and are doubly troubled first for your Ladiships sake whom they take to be the pattern of all noble goodness and so perfectly amiable in your self that you should yet remain in such an odious and idolatrous Religion then for themselves that they cannot have the happiness to enjoy your Ladiships company and family in our Churches as well as in our Markets and that our souls do not meet in a spiritual as well as
errours that I was before possest of the one was that you Papists especially women and Lay people were not at all conversant in Scripture the second was that you did over vilifie our translations and would be judged onely by your own editions of Scripture which we are informed are false and framed onely to your own intents and purposes but I finde your Ladiship quotes no Scripture that is not word for word in our Bibles Then thirdly I am already satisfied that you have more reason for your Religion then I before immagined if those Scriptures which you produce have had such an understanding in the universal Church as you alledge and Lastly that it will be utterly impossible for us to make an end of the controversie without some learned Moderator for otherwise it will be but your sense upon Scripture and mine and we both abounding in our own as it is too much given to us women to be I am in dispair of the good end Madame that I proposed Lady M. For the first three things that you pretend to be satisfied in I cannot believe dear Mrs. N. but you dispose your self rather to Rallery then to deal really with me but as for the last I do most cleeply concur with you in opinion that it will be necessary for us to have some Learned Arbitrator or otherwise we shall but beat the air and bring nothing to conclusion Mrs. N. Why then deer Madame how shall we agree in the choice of him for it is neither fit for your Ladiship nor for me alone to have the nomination and it will be very difficult to finde one that may be so indifferent as to please us both Lady M. Why truly your self Mrs. N. if you please shall make the choise and for my part I think none fitter than your own husband if he please to accept the trouble for I take him to be a very learned prudent and impartial person thourgh by his profession he may appear engaged against us but I am confident that will not so much over by ass his judgement as to say a malicious untruth Mrs. N. Well then since your Ladiship is pleased to offer so fair in that particular I must tell you yet a further difficulty that occurs to me whether I should make a present rejoynder with your Ladiships replys for that is I perceive your intended method or proceed still to object refer all my answers to your Ladiships replies till the very last for though the the first will be more to your Ladiships present satisfaction yet the bestwill a void much of both our trouble for I humbly conceive I shall be able to wipe off many of your Ladiships arguments upon several occasions with one compendious answer Lady M. In that do as you shall please good Mrs. M. for either shall be indifferent to me Mrs. N. Why then sweet Madame I shall proceed to object against some of the most practical points of your Religion as your Ladiship hath required me avoiding all subtilties relating to the Schools and so I have accordingly prepared another paper for your Ladiships view and I shall not be bold to offer above one or two more and then I shall endeavour to rejoyn and humbly refer to better judgements So after many mutual thanks and particular kindnesses were passed on both sides my Lady being attended by Mrs. N. to her Coach departed away with her third paper which coming home and opening her Ladiship found to this effect as followeth That your Church has so overladen the souls of Christians with their own Traditions and humane constitutions that it has not only abridg'd Christian liberty but hardly left room for the observation of divine precepts I prove thus by express Scriptures We finde in Deuteronomy Deut. 4.2 how God does absolutly command his people by the mouth of his servant Moses not to add unto the word Josh 1.7 which he commanded them nor to diminish ought from it The like was commanded by the mouth of Joshuah that from that law which they had read they should not turn neither to the right nor to the left The wise King Solomon gives the same caution Prov. 30.5.6 every word of God is pure c. and then proceeds Adde thou not unto his words least he reprove thee and thou be found a liar and S. John assures us That if any man shall adde unto the words of his prophecy Revel 22 18.19 that God shall adde unto him the plagues that are written in that book and if any shall take away c. God shall take away his part out of the book of life and yet notwithstanding these clear commands and terrible threatnings your Church dares to do those things daily by ading of meer humane inventions S. Mark 7.6 7 8 9. Mark tells us plainly how our Saviour did severely rebuke that kind of Religion and professeth plainly that in vain such do worship him who teach for doctrines the commandments of men saying immediately before how such do honour him with their lips but their heart is far from him and so proceeds sharply inveighing against mens Traditions yet your Church does nothing but over-load men with them 3. S. Paul give a most strict warning to the Corinthians and so to us 1 Cor. 7.22.23 to avoid any captivity of that kinde for he speaks to all that are called who are the Lords freemen and therefore concludes ye are bought with a price be not ye the seruants of men that captivity I am sure none can avoid that is of your Church 4. Gal. 5.18 Again he tells the Gallatians yet more plainly that if they be led of the spirit they are not under the law so then we Christians are subject to no humane constitutions whatsoever 5. Again the same Apostle tells us 1 Tim. 1.9 that the Law is not made for a righteous man but for the lawless disobedient ungodly c. what then are good Christians concerned in your new-fangled Laws and again he tells the Romans that the Law worketh worth Rom. 4.15 what then have we Christians to do with it 6. Lastly 2 Cor. 3.17 the same Apostle assures the Corinthians that where the spirit of the Lord is there is liberty and largely relates to the Gallathians how Jesus Christ did purchase this liberty for us Gal. 4. and that we are no more under the law nor sons of the Bond woman but of the free why then should your Church by its devises endeavour to reduce us into bondage again That amongst the rest of your new inventions your commanded days of fasts and abstinence especially a whole lent together is a burthen insupportable and abusive to our Christian liberty I prove by Scripture thus 1. Does not our Saviour in S. Matthews Gospel call the multitude expresly about him Mat. 15.10 11. to teach them this piece of doctrine and bids them hear and understand not that which goeth into
latter end of the Text would have answered the begining for we graunt as aforesayd that the Lord of heaven and earth dwelleth not in Temples made with hands neither is worshiped with mens hands as though he needed any thing that you are pleased I say to leave out and we deny as well as you that God is so to be worshipt in our Churches as if he stood in need of any help of ours To the Third What you urge again out of S. Paul we grant that we are to pray in all places that is to be understood sure of all places of convenience and what place can be more convenient than that which is dedicated consecrated and devoted to that onely use Besides S. Paul said that onely to refute a vulgar errour which was that it was not lawfull to pray any where but in the Church To the Fourth We do not deny but the Temple of the Jews was so destroyed as our Saviour prophesied and that so it ought to be but that signifies nothing to our Churches for as the Evangelical Law succeeded the Jewish Law so the Evangelical Priesthood succeeded the Jewish Priesthood and our Churches their Temple and our unbloody Sacrifice their bloody ones To the fifth We freely grant all that our Saviour sayes as you urge and that the true worshippers of him shall do it in spirit and in truth and we pray you what hinders but that we may do that in our Churches and what is in the text more reougnant to our Churches than to your woods caves and nasty conventicles To the Sixth The Prophet Jeremy whom you urge does most expresly testifie there that the Temple was his most choice and beloved place and addes those words and I will dwell with you in that place Notwithstanding he tells them in the Text you quote that they are not to trust in that for the sanctity of the Temple should not be a priviledge to them if they took wicked courses This is all the scope of the Text and the context To the Seventh We grant it to be true that God is in every place and hears sinners every where does it therefore follow that we must have no Churches This was Jaroboaws argument sure to the Israelites to keep them from their going up to the Temple at Jerusalem when he told them how impertinent a piece of worship it was to take so long a journey to so little purpose You Anahaptists therefore may be very properly in this point called Jerohoites going about to disswade Christians from the use of Churches as he did there the Israelites from their Temple but because we perceive you are a Latinist we shall refet you to a learned Jew to teach you a more Christian religion Joseph lib. 8. c. 12. and that is Josephus who will tell you Deus est ubique sed in uno loco vult orari honorari plusquam in alio God is every where but in one place he wil be prayed to and honored more than another and what you seem to fling against tho riches ornaments of our Churches is nothing to the purpose supposing that we must have Churches at all consecrated to divine use sure common reason tells us that they are not then to be like Burnes nor our Priests to go like Beggars who serve in them what you produce out of Persius is little to the purpose and you shew your self to be a true imitater of your grand Patriarch Martin Luther who when he went about to prove that all things in this world came by a fatal absolute and inevitable necessity produceth a Heathen Poet for his Authority certa stant emnia lege so when we bring clear Scriptures and you are pleased to produce Ethnick Poets we conceive our selves not bound to answer to their authority how valid soever you take it to be for we know they knew not God therefore they are not to be received by us as any authority But of this we shall tell you more hereafter To the Eight I say you have done very bravely to make all Christian Princes and Magistrates to be Pilates and Herodes and whereas you say that Christ asserted Pilates power the contrary is plain out of the Text for our Saviour there clearly taxeth him of sin when he sayes that he that betrayed him into his hands had the greater sin Now that Pilate had a power given him from above our Saviour sayes it but in reference to God that is permissively onely that God did permit to him onely that power for we know it was his own will to offer himself if the Text be understood as in reference to Cesar and the supream civil power you then gain nothing by your argument To the Ninth We will grant you that all saithfull Christians are Priests as they are also Kings that is to be understood spiritually because God reigneth in them by his free grace and they by the unction of his holy spirit do play the Kings over and govern the powers and faculties of their souls and senses hut yet besides those Kings which may be beggars there are and were alwaies Kings and external external Governours In like manner all the faithfull who offer to God their faith and faithfull prayers c. may be said to be spiritual Priests and that Priesthood needs no ceremonies but it is plain that besides this internall Priesthood there is and must be an external one in the Church Take for example every faithfull Christian is the Temple of God for so S. Paul sayes to the Corinthians ye are the holy Temple of God but yet besides those Temples there must be external Temples affixt to certain places in which do meet the Congregations of the faithfull Then as to the words of the Text you quote you may as well infer out of another that all the Jewes were Priests too Enod 19.5 6. for we find in Exodus how God tells them Now therefore if ye will obey my vaine indeed and keep my Covenant then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all peoples and ye shall be unto me a Kingdome of Priests and a holy Nation c. This was said to all Israel and yet you will not deny but there were particular Kings and Priests besides In fine you know well enough the difference between a Priest of your making and a Priest of Gods making a Lay-Priest and a Hierarchical one but you are willing to let your selves be cheated by that sophisme of equivocation that you may do again as Jeroboam did set up your Lay-Priests to hinder people from going to Rome as he did to hinder the Israelites from going to Jerusalem So here again you are Jeroboites To the Tenth We say that you torment and turn that Text of the Apostle to the Corinthians to a most heretical sense for though we are all one body in Christ yet sure it is a most sottish inference to say that therefore we are all the hand or