ABBOT PAVL saith the Rom. 8 v. 18. sufferinges of this time are not worthy of the glory that shal be reuealed vnto vs but you say they are vvorthy WILLIAM BISHOP I Say that M. Abbot hath gotten such a custome of abusing Gods word that he scarce alleageth one sentence of it vvithout one paltry shift or other The wordes of S. Paul truly translated are Our sufferinges are not worthy to the glory or as our English phrase is are not to be compared to the glory of c. that is our labours or paines are not either so great and waighty or of so long endurance as be the joies of heauen yet through the dignity which we receiue by being made members of Christ and by the vertue of Gods grace wherewith those workes be wrought and by the promise of God both we are accounted vvorthy of heauen according to S. Pauls owne phrase 2. Thessal 1. vers 5. Which persecutions you sustaine that you may be counted worthy the Kingdome of God and our sufferinges meritorious of life euerlasting vvhich S. Paul doth very precisely teach vvhere he saith that 2. Cor. 4. vers 17. our tribulation which for the present is momentary and light yet worketh aboue measure exceedinglie an eternal waight of glory in vs we not considering the thinges that are seene but that are not seene and else vvhere is bold to say 2. Tim. 4. vers 8. That God had laid vp for him a crowne of justice which our Lord wil render to me in that day a just Iudge and not only to me but to them also that loue his comming If God as a just Iudge render the joies of heauen as a crowne of justice then were they before justly deserued and the sufferinges of them that deserued them vvere in just proportion worthy of them Thus briefly any indiffereÌ„t reader may perceiue how farre S. Paul being rightly taken is from affording any reliefe vnto the Protestant cause They doe now as many vnlearned and vnstable men did euen in his owne time witnesse S. Peter 2. Pet. 3. vers 16. depraue and misvse certaine sentences of his hard to be vnderstood to their owne perdition and to the deceiuing and vndoing of their followers for in al his Epistles being vnderstood as he meant them there is not one word or sillable that maketh for the Protestants or any other sectaries and plenty there are of plaine texts for the most points of the Catholike faith A tast vvhereof I wil giue you as soone as I shal haue made an end of answering vnto this his idle discourse ROBERT ABBOT PAVL saith nothing for those points for the denial vvhereof M. Bishop condemneth vs. Nothing for the justification before God by vvorkes nothing for free-wil nothing for Relikes nothing for the merit of single life nothing for praier for the dead nothing for traditions nothing for any of the rest Now in this case M. Bishop it had beene fit that you should by very good reason haue satisfied his Majesty how it should be probable or possible that the Apostle writing at large to the church of Rome should not once mention any of those maine points wherein the religion of the Church of Rome now vvholy consisteth if the Church of Rome vvere then the same that now it is That he should say nothing of the prerogatiue of that Church nothing of the Pope of his pardons of the Masse of transubstantiation of Monkish vowes of Images of pilgrimages of praier to Saints of al the rest of your baggage stuffe in a word that he should be a Papist yet should write nothing Rhem. Test. argum of the Epist in general but that in shew at least serueth the Protestants turne only we must be perswaded forsooth that where anything soundeth contrary to the Râ—mish faith we faile of the right sence But vndoubtedly M. Bishop either S. Paul vvas a Protestant or else he dealt very negligently in your behalfe S. Peter was another principal pillar of that Church the founder and head thereof as you perswade vs vvhat would he also forget his triple crowne vvould he say nothing for al these thinges not a word there is nothing hindreth in either of his Epistles but that he also must be taken for a ProtestaÌ„t Me thinkes here you should fare Erasmus de ratione as in another case Robertuâ— Liciensis did before the Pope you should spit and cry out fie vpon Peter fie vpon Paul would they not thinke these trash and trinkets of ours so much worth as to speake of them Ah these Protestants these Heretikes they say al for them and nothing at al for vs. But alas Peter and Paul had not heard any of these thinges and therefore no maruaile that they wrote nothing of them They reade Moyses and the Prophets they preached as Christ did according to the Scriptures the Catholike religion that had beene from the beginning of the world they continued betwixt the old and the new Testament vve see a vvonderful agreement but concerning Popery we see nothing WILLIAM BISHOP WE haue here a dainty dish of M. Abbots cookery a large rhetorical conclusion deducted out of leane thinne and weake premises He assaied to make a shew out of the Apostle that there was not a little which would serue the Protestants turne and cited to that purpose certaine sentences out of him but so properly that some of them indeed seemed to sound for him though they had in truth a farre different sence others had neither sence nor sound nor sillable for him Neuerthelesse as though he had gotten a great conquest he singeth a triumph and striketh vp a braue victory that al in Peter and Paul is for the Protestant nothing for the Papist Afterward as it were correcting himselfe he addes nothing but in shew at least serueth the Protestants turne vvhich is one of the truest wordes he there deliuereth The Protestants indeed be jolly nimble witted fellowes that can make any thing serue at least for a shew of their cause and when al other thinges faile thâ—m 2. Tim. 4. vers 4. Aâ— fabulas conuertuntur they turne their eares away from truth as the Apostle speaketh and fal to fables and one Robin good-fellow I vveene for lacke of a better is brought vpon the stage to spit and cry out Fie vpon Peter fie vpon Paul that had not remembred to say one word for Popery but al for the Protestant Fie I say vpon such a cause that must be vnder-propt vvith such rotten baggage stuffe What shadow of likely-hood is there that one should tel the Pope such a tale to his face or that Erasmus vvho vvas in most points a Catholike should report it or could there be any poore Robin excepting M. Abbots himselfe so simple and poore-blinde that in al the writings of those blessed Apostles he could not finde one vvord that gaue any sound or shew for the Catholike cause you haue heard already that I
faith of Christ and hauing now the old and new Testament he should by a Councel of his realme take lawes from thence to gouerne them by that he was the Vicar of God in his Kingdome that the people and nations of the Kingdome of Britany were his euen his children that such as were deuided he should gather them together vnto the law of Christ his holy Church to peace and concord and should cherish and maintaine protect gouerne and defend them c. But now the religion of Rome hath altered that stile and telleth vs Sext. proem in glossa That not the King but the Pope is Gods Vicar vpon earth his Vicar general for al Kingdomes And as for the Church the matters and gouernement thereof belong not to the King vvho if he make any lawes concerning religion He challengeth to him selfe anothers right that is Distinct 96. Si Imperator the Popes because God would not haue the worke of Christian religion to be ordered by publike lawes or by the secular power but by Popes and Bishops WILLIAM BISHOP TRVE M. Abbot you had neede to leaue Peter and Paul for heretikes who so plainely plentifully confute your doctrine and establish ours or else you and your fellowes must needes be taken for heretikes And if you hope to finde any of their Successors more friendly vnto you you wil proue in the end as fouly if not more grosly deceiued then you were before But how chanceth it that you lept from Peter Paul vnto one that was the thirtenth Pope after S. Peter why did you ouer-skip al the rest Was there not one of the other twelue that vvould afford you some peece of a darke broken sentence out of vvhich you might picke some colour of cauil against vs If they vvould haue yeelded him any comfort they should not haue beene forgotten as we may see by Anacletus who is afterwardes haled in by the way and yoked with another for want of some cleare sentence of his owne Wel let vs come to Eleutherius the man of whom you haue made choise First you relate such a wise tale of so vvorthy a Bishop so impertinent il hanging together and so weakly verified that no considerate person standing vpright can giue you any credit therein To beginne with the Authors that report it they be both professed Protestants and come more then a thousand yeares to late for the relation of so auncient a matter vnlesse they had alleaged other authentike Authours in confirmation of it But Hollinhead reportes himselfe to M. Fox a crafty deceitful lying Minister of his owne time Stow to some moth-eaten monument lying in the Guild hal Now what credit is to be giuen to thinges so sillily confirmed specially vvhere there is farre greater probabilitie against it for Eleutherius was Bishop of Rome whose epistles and letters vvere registred there and most diligently preserued in their treasury among other monuments of antiquity where one only epistle of his to the prouince of France is to be found And if he had vvritten another to a King of great Britany no question but it vvould haue beene as carefully preserued there as the other Againe what likelihood is there that any old writing of or to Lucius King of great Britany should be preserued in the citty of London vvhen al the Britons vvere driuen thence by their enemies the Saxons vvho vvere most like to make smal store of such letters specially which concerned the Christian religion to vvhich they were then enemies And if they had reserued any such should not venerable Bede our most learned and industrious country-man vvho made most diligent enquiry after al such vvhen our Ancestours were conuerted to the faith haue heard some newes of this famous letter vvho heard and writ as much of Pope Eleutherius King Lucius and the realmes conuersion as he could discouer and finde any ground for out of any part of antiquity the like may be said of al the rest of our ancient Historiographers whether English or Britons among whom there is not one to be found that made any mention of this vvorthy letter how then is it possible that there should be any such besides if you marke but the Kings demand and the Bishops answere both being persons of great wisdome and grauity such simplicity and incongruity appeares that any man of vnderstanding wil take it to be ridiculous and counterfait The King forsooth writeth to the Pope for a copy of the Roman constitutions and Imperial lawes for the gouernement of his realme the Pope writeth backe ad correctionem Regis to the correction and amendment of the King vvhich is an answere as just as Germans lips goodly stuffe surely and fit to lie hidde in dusty corners Those vvordes for the Roman constitutions to gouerne the Church are deceitfully shuffled in besides the purpose as may appeare by the answere And the King sent before and receiued by the Popes messengers ful instruction of al points concerning the Christian religion wherefore he then wrote only for the Imperial lawes to direct him how to gouerne his temporal estate To vvhich the letter maketh the Bishop to answere very childishly that he had the old and new Testament and willeth him to fish out thence the ciuil gouernement of his realme vvhich neuer any Christian King either before or sithens euer did Adde finally that the letter beareth date in those authours cited by M. Abbot 169. yeares after the passion of Christ vvhich is at least twise seauen yeares after the death of Pope Eleutherius But al these impertinences and improbabilities being set aside for the while let it be graunted that the letter vvere true and not fained vvhat hold can the Protestants take on it to serue their purpose surely very weake and such as may be most easily shaken out off their handes The letter hath That the nations and people of his Kingdome were euen his children Be it so a good King is Parens Patriae Pastor populi The Parent of his country and foster-father of his people followeth it of this that he is their chiefe head in spiritual causes then were the Heathen Roman Emperors supreme head of the Church for they were parents of their country that is nourishers defenders and rulers of the common weale this then wil help the Protestants nothing Neither wil that which followeth in the letter that they are Gods Vicars in his Kingdome and should gather his people vnto the law of Christ for the Roman Catholikes doe allow Kinges to be Gods Vicars not only in al the temporal affaires of their realmes but also that they should by counsel countenance example and authority draw al their subjects to the true faith of Christ and seeke to cal home al them that are gone astray and diuided from the Catholike Church and to establish peace and concord among them and finally to gouerne them so happily vnited in al such thinges as appertaine vnto their Kingly vocation
now by the Canon of the Masse the Priest must dippe the third part of the consecrated host into the Sacrament of the bloud and there praieth that this mixture may be heathful to himselfe and al the receiuers vnto euerlasting life WILLIAM BISHOP I Cannot easily judge whether this man were more fiercely bent to deceiue others or more foolishly set to shame himselfe vvith lying that durst aduenture vpon this Canon of the auncient and most learned Pope Iulius for besides that it hath nothing for the Protestants purpose it doth in sundry points notably confirme the Roman doctrine thus beginneth the Canon When euery crime and sinne is purged and blotted out by sacrifices offered vnto God what shal hereafter be giuen to God for the purgation of our sinnes when errour is committed in the oblation of the sacrifice it selfe note how often he repeateth and recommendeth the diuine sacrifice of the Masse For we haue heard of some men possessed with schismatical ambition who contrary to diuine order and the institution of the Apostles doe in the diuine sacrifice offer milke in steede of wine others also for a complement of communion doe giue the dipped Sacrament to the people c. Then confuting these opinions he saith When the Master of truth did commend to his Disciples the true sacrifice of our saluation he gaue to none of them milke c. let therefore milke be no more offered when we sacrifice Then come in the broken vvordes of M. Abbot thus But for that of the dipped Eucharist which for a complement of communion they deliuer to the people they haue not receiued any testimony brought out of the Gospel where our Lord commended to the Apostles his body and bloud for there the bread is mentioned apart and the commendation of the Chalice apart where M. Abbot first left out the commending of Christs body and bloud to his Disciples because those vvordes vvould haue scalded his tongue Secondly this Canon hath nothing against that vvhich is now done by the Priest in the Masse for the Priest doth not dippe any part of the Host into the Chalice to be afterwardes taken out and giuen to the people vvhich is that which Pope Iulius doth disproue Neither doe our Priests to speake properly dippe any part of the Sacrament into the Chalice for dipping in importeth as much as the putting in and taking foorth againe which we doe not but only for a holy signification we doe put into the Chalice one litle parâ—â— of the Host there to lie and not to be taken out againe but to be receiued by the Priest together with the bloud and therefore we cal it not the dipping in but the mixture or mingling together of the body and bloud of Christ wherefore M. Abbot erreth in the maine point of his reprehension For Pope Iulius reproued only the giuing of the dipped Host vnto the people vvhich we doe not nor hold it any way necessary because vve teach them that the holy Host of Christs body containes in it selfe being a liuing body as wel Christes bloud as his flesh now vve doe only put a little peece of the sacred Host into the Chalice there to be receiued with the pretious bloud not of the people but by the Priest alone That this is no new deuise of the Church of Rome may be wel gathered out of the same distinction and in the very next leafe to that of Pope Iulius cited by M. Abbot in the Canon Triforme De consecrat distinct 2. vvhere Pope Sergius of more then 800. yeares standing doth expound this very ceremony of putting one part of the host into the Chalice It was then a knowne vsed ceremony of the Masse in his daies and no late inuention as M. Abbot dreameth I may not here forget that in the very Canon of Pope Iulius vvhich M. Abbot alleageth there is most expresse and very earnest coÌ„mandement of mingling water with the vvine that is to be consecrated Because saith that blessed Pope our Lordes Chalice according vnto the precepts of the Canons must be offered the wine being first mingled with water Finally we haue in this Canon alleaged by M. Abbot a confirmation of a propitiatory sacrifice of the real presence of Christs body and bloud two principal points of our doctrine and of mingling water with wine in the offertory and not one direct word for the Protestants And because this resolution of Iulius seemeth to be taken almost vvord for word out of Pope Alexanders first letter vvho was but the fift Pope from S. Peter I wil acquaint the reader vvith his wordes these they be Alexand. in epist omnibus orthodoxis De consecrat dist 2. Can. 1. In the oblations of Sacraments which are offered vnto our Lord at the solemne time of Masse the passion of our Lord is to be blended that his passion may be celebrated whose body and bloud is made and consecrated so that superstitious opinions being banished bread alone and wine mingled with water be offered in the sacrifice For as we haue receiued from the Fathers and very reason doth teach in the cuppe of our Lord only water or only wine ought not to be offered but both of them mixed togither And a little after Crimes and sinnes are blotted out when these sacrifices are offered therefore the passion of our Lord whereby we were redeemed is to be remembred with such sacrifices our Lord is delighted and shal be appeased and wil pardon huge offences For among sacrifices nothing can be greater then the body and bloud of Christ Neither is there any oblation better then this but this surpasseth them al c. Where you see the present Roman religion deliuered in as formal tearmes as may be There is also much more to the same purpose but I am the briefer in these authorities and doe alleage them more sparingly because Protestants seing them to be beyond al other exceptions doe flatly deny almost al the Epistles and Decretals of the most ancient Popes neuerthelesse they must needes be effectual and haue good place against M. Abbot that doth take vpon him to establish their doctrine put downe ours by the testimony of these the lawful heires and successours vnto the Apostles S. Peter and S. Paul alleaging many testimonies out of the very same Epistles Wherefore seing he hath appealed to them he must needes stand to them for this sentence of the President Festus hath his ground in very reason it selfe Act. 25. v. 12. Hast thou appealed to Caesar to Caesar shalt thou goe M. Abbot judged those Popes sentences of sound authority for confirmation of their religion he may not therefore deny them being brought in against him The same Pope Iulius to omit many other cleare testimonies taken out of his owne letters because the Protestants doe cauil at them doth most euidently confirme the soueraigne power of the See of Rome ouer al the East Church euen by the vvitnesse of most approued authours For vpon the
and honour of the See of the most blessed Apostle Peter being preserued inuiting vs also by his letters to assist in person at this reuerend Councel which neither the necessity of the time nor any custome could permit howbeit in our bretheren Paschasius and Lucentius Bishops Bonifacius and Basilius Priests your brother-hood hath me President in your Synode c. these wordes of S. Leo ouerthrow at once al M. Abbots vveake forces for the Emperours supremacy First he declareth that he liked of the Emperours not commandement but counsel and aduise of calling of a Councel marry so to that it be not taken to derogate aught from the right honor of the See of Rome vvithout vvhose sentence according to the ancient Canons no Councel could be celebrated then that the Emperour had no power to command him to come to that Councel and lastly that he in his Legates and not the Emperour was President in that general Councel But to stay yet a while in this matter of calling the Councel for further assurance that the Popes letters and authority did principally moue al Catholike Bishops to meete in general Councels take first their owne declaration therof in formal tearmes thus spake the Fathers assembled in the second general Councel which vvas the first holden at Constantinople in their letters to Pope Damasus Theodoret. hist l. 5. c. 9. By the commandement of letters sent the last yeare by your reuerence vnto the most royal Emperour Theodosius we vndertooke the journey euen to Constantinople And in the Councel of Chalcedon the Bishops of Maesia vvriting vnto the Emperour Leo doe say That many holy Bishops met together in the Citty of Chalcedon Habetur inter Epistolas pertineÌ„tes ad Concil Chal. Per jussionem Leonis Romani Pontificis qui verè caput est Episcoporum By the commandement of Leo Bishop of Rome who is truly the head of Bishops Ioyne hereto the testification of the Emperour Martianus himselfe being one of M. Abbots owne witnesses thus writeth that Godly Emperour In Epist eius praefixa Concil Chalced. ad Leon. PoÌ„t Being called by the prouidence of God to the Empire c. we for the venerable Catholike religion of the Christian faith c. haue thought good in the beginning thereof to speake by our letters to your Holinesse who hold the principality in the Bishoply function of the same Godly faith requesting your Holinesse to remember in your praiers the good estate of our Empire and that also for the extirpation of al wicked errour we may fully purpose to restore vnity and concord among al Catholike Bishops in celebrating of a Councel Te authore by your authority or you being the Authour thereof What can be more manifest then that this most Godly Emperour did agnize and confesse the principal authority of calling general Councels to appertaine vnto the Bishop of Rome whom he professed also to be the supreme Pastour of the vniuersal Church to whom afterward he sent the same Councel when it was ended to haue his confirmation of it as you shal heare anone Socrat. lib. 2. cap. 13. Zozâ—m l. 3. cap. 9. Tripart l. 4. cap. 9. Niceph. l. 9. cap. 5. Al which is exceedingly fortified by an ancient Canon of the Church vrged by Pope Iulius vvho liued an hundred yeares before S. Leo and is recorded by al the approued Ecclesiâ—stical Historiographers for a most ancient and inuiolable rule in Christian religion to wit that no general Councel be holden Praeter sententiam Romani Pontificis besides or without the consent and sentence of the Bishop of Rome thus farre about the authority of calling general Councels Now to that which followeth in M. Abbot Who was President in those general Councels M. Abbot affirmeth the Emperor to haue the Presidency thereof and for proofe alleageth only the example of Constantius the fourth Who saith he was President of the sixt Synode holden in Trullo To which I answere that the penurious man sheweth himselfe very naked and needy of some proofes that is compelled to ouer-leape fiue of the first general Councels and to fal to the yeare 675. after Christ before he can finde out one Emperour that did obtaine the name of President in a Councel To vvhich also I picke an answere out of the Epistle of the Chalcedon Councel vvhich vvas more then two hundred yeares ancienter then the other vnto Pope Leo thus it is there Quibus tu quidem vt caput praeeras in his qui tuum tenebant ordinem Imperatores verò decentissimi ad ornandum praesidebant c. Ouer which Bishops there assembled thou ô Leo wast by them that held thy ranke President as the head is to the rest of the members c. but the Emperours were Presidents most comely to adorne that assembly Where you see two kinde of Presidents in the Councel the Pope in his Legates as the head is ouer the members the Emperour to honour and grace the Assembly And therefore to the Popes Legates it did appertaine principally to propose argue determine and define the questions there debated discussed to vvhich also they did set their handes in the first place To the Emperor it did belong to see due order kept in the Councel vvhere vvere many vvily and vnruly Heretikes that al thinges might be examined quietly and without perturbation or tumult determined who also in the end subscribed after al the Bishops and their Substitutes consentiens consenting imbracing and approuing the same not determining or defining as may be seene in the 18. Action of the said sixt general Councel cited by M. Abbot To make this distinction more perspicuous and certaine let vs heare some Emperours of those daies declare themselues vvhat they did at those general Councels Theodosius the younger sent for his Legate vnto the third general councel holden at Ephesus the Earle Candidianus vvhat to be President there in his place nothing lesse no not so much as to entermeddle in any Ecclesiastical matters but only ad Synodi defensionem to defend the Councel Ex eius Epist ad Synod Ephes In oratione sua ad Synodum The Emperour Martianus was present in his owne person at the fourth Councel kept at Chalcedon where he sheweth what is the proper office of a good Emperour Our endeauour must be saith he to apply the people to the one right Church being first perswaded the true and holy doctrine And therefore let your reuerences expound and declare the true and Catholike faith according to the doctrine of the Fathers in al vnity and concord c. Valentinian the elder being requested to be present at a Councel holden betweene the Catholikes and the Arrians answered Hist 1. Tripart lib. 7. cap. 12. That it was not lawful for him being but a lay person to examine Ecclesiastical matters but the Priests to whom they did belong might meete together among themselues when they pleased and determine of them Of Constantine the great I
the Church of Rome so cruelly surely there was no agreement betweene them Wherefore as the Catholikes of Africa then so they that were taken into the communion of the Church of Rome cared little for the Donatists as witnesseth S. Augustine saying of Cecilianus Bishop of Carthage August Epistola 162. He neede not to care for the multitude of his conspiring enemies the Donatists when he saw himselfe by communicatory letters joined with the Roman Church in which alwaies the principality of the Apostolical chaire flourished c. So we at this time neede as little to care for the bitter reproches and deceitful arguments of the Protestants so we stand stable and firme in the like society of faith and religion with the same Church of Rome ROBERT ABBOT Cont. Epist. Fund cap. 4. THERE vvas reason why Augustine should be moued with the name of Catholike vvhen they that were called Catholikes had testimony of their faith from the communion society of the Church throughout the vvhole vvorld and were therefore so called Breui collat diti 3. cap. 2. Quia communicant Ecclesiae toto orbe diffusae Because saith S. Augustine they communicate with the Church spread ouer al the whole world But most sottishly it is alleaged for a motiue to vs being now Donatistically applied to one particular Church of Rome and to men bearing the name of Catholikes only for communicating vvith that Church Surely as the name of Iewes was of old a name of honour and the proper title of the people of God but afterwardes by their Apostacy who bare it was left for Esai 65. vers 15. a name of curse and reproch so the name of Catholike was an honourable name and the peculiar title of the true children of the Church but now by their abuse who haue vnjustly taken that name vnto themselues it is become a name of curse and shame vvith the people of God and the proper badge of Apostataes and Heretikes And as the Apostle Rom. 2. v. 28. denieth the name of Iewes to them vvho yet according to the letter were so called because of the circumcision of the flesh and applieth the truth of the nam◠to them vvho vvere so according to the spirit albeit according to the letter they were not so named so the name of Catholikes in deede belongeth not to the Romish faction who according to the letter take vpon them to be so called but the true meaning thereof belongeth to them vvho although they joy not in the litteral name c. yet doe follow the same faith vvhich they followed vvho first were called by the name of Catholikes Let them haue the shel so that we haue the kernel c. the name in his true vse importeth them that imbrace the faith of the Catholike that is the vniuersal Church that hath beene from the beginning of the world that is through the vvhole vvorld and shal be to the worldes end WILLIAM BISHOP S. AVGVSTINE indeede was so much moued with the name of Catholike that he alleageth it to haue beene one principal cause Cont. Epist Fund cap. 4. De vera relig cap. 7. which kept him in the lappe of the Church And else where very often exhorteth al Christians To hold the communion of that Church which both is Catholike and knowne also by that very name not only to her owne followers but also to others And the self◠same reason alleaged by M. Abbot himselfe vvhich caused that most holy vvise and learned Father to esteeme so highly of that title Catholike is now of great force to perswade al reasonable men to make themselues members of the Roman Church for by joining in society of faith with the Church of Rome they shal cōmunicate with the Church spred ouer the whole vvorld because the faith and religion of the Church of Rome hath beene generally receiued al the world ouer as our aduersaries themselues doe confesse The name Catholike is by the Protestants Donatistically applied to their Schismatical congregation that neither are nor euer were scattered al the world ouer but be inclosed and confined vvithin certaine countries of Europe as the Donatists were within the boundes of Afrike Most sottishly then to vse his owne wordes doth M. Abbot affirme the name Catholike to be applied by vs of the Roman religion vnto the particular Church of Rome when as we cal al other Churches of what country soeuer that with the Church of Rome keepe intirely the same faith Catholike And men of al other nations doe we cal Catholikes as vvel as those vvho are Romans borne because they al beleeue and confesse the same one Catholke faith that is extended ouer al the world Secondly M. Abbot is much mistaken in his comparison of the name of Iewe with the name Catholike for to omit first that such examples proue nothing but doe only serue for shew or explication and moreouer that it can hardly be shewed that the name of Iewe was a name of such honour at any time for that peoples honourable name vvas Israelites and vvere not called Iewes til towardes the declination and wane of their estate Neither was it euer any peculiar and proper title of the people of God for God had many good seruants that were neuer called Iewes as may be gathered by Iob the Husite Naaman the Sirian the widow of Luc. 4. vers 26. Sarepta a Sidonian and by a great number of Prosilites and finally by that which the Apostle teacheth Rom. 2. vers 14. Many Gentils were saued without the law Lastly most vncertaine it is of what name the Prophet Isay speaketh when he saith Cap. 65. vers 13. It shal be left for a name of curse Al these impertinencies of his example being too too many I doe remit him but cannot pardon his grosse fault in the maine point of the comparison for the name Iewe according to the vsual signification of the word being the name of a certaine people of one race and kindred and hauing a law giuen them by Moises which should continue only for a prescript time and end at the comming of Christ is not like the name of Catholike which is no special name of the people of any one country but is attributed and doth agree to al sortes of men of what country or nation soeuer that doe embrace the true Christian faith And is inseparably linked and so fast joined and riueted with the Christian profession and religion that it shal neuer faile fal or be separated from it so long as Christs faith standeth nor euer be contemned of the faithful whiles Christs true religion flourisheth vvhich is proued inuincibly out of the very Etimology of the name Catholike and that according to M. Abbots owne interpretation in the same place who doth expound it to signifie that Church which is through the whole world and shal be to the worldes end If the name Catholike shal continue to the worldes end the true title of
care of prouiding for wife children doth wholy extinguish or greatly diminish their good house-keeping and prouiding for the poore as the lamentable experience of our very time doth sufficiently instruct vs. What if some Popes or other Clergy-men haue beene too forward to satisfie the greedy couetousnesse of their carnal friends that is their owne fault contrary to the prouident order and law of the Church and if the corrupt nature of man be so inclinable to fauor them that be next in bloud to them was it not right vvisely ordained by our Church that Clergy-men should haue no wiues and children for that men naturally doe loue them most dearely and vse al meanes to prouide for them But how carelesly herein doe the Protestants carry themselues vvho doe encourage and as it were push their Clergy-men forward to haue wiues and children vvho being thereby clogged with the cares of this world bidde adieu to al courteous and plentiful hospitality and leaue the poore to shift as they can for themselues for they haue more then enough to doe to prouide for their owne wiues and children The second lie is shuffled into the parenthesis taken out of Platina to vvit That vnder the name of nephewes commonly goe their bastards vvhich is not in his authour but a most malitious slander deuised of his owne head and auouched without any testimony and therefore to be contemned The third is in that he maketh Platina to affirme it to be a common thing with the Popes which he only noteth for a special fault in some few Is this man worthy thinke you the sacred title of a Diuine or of the common name of an honest man vvho doth in manner nothing else but sow lies together and that sometimes so thicke that for euery line neere hand there is onelie or other vvas his meaning trow you to giue instruction to the ignorant and satisfaction to the learned as often he vaunteth or rather to blinde the simple and to feede the vaine folly of the ouer credulous Protestant Prouerb 10. Qui nititur mendacijs saith the vvise man hic pascit ventos Idem insequitur aues volantes He that relieth on lies doth feede the windes that is may please vaine and light heades He doth also follow birdes flying in the aire that is doth feede the humour of hawty wauering and vnsettled spirits but can neuer giue contentment or satisfaction to any graue modest and discreet man who doth flie from a crafty and subtle liar as from the very off-spring of that Serpent which with lying deceiued our first mother Eue. But goe on vvith your lies seing it wil be no otherwise ROBERT ABBOT THE Emperours of Rome Theodosius and Valens according vnto the doctrine of the ancient Church of Rome Petri Crinit de honest disciplina lib. 9. cap. 9. Vpon care of preseruing the religion of the high God did forbidde the making grauing or painting of the Crucifix and commanded it vpon penalty to be abolished wheresoeuer it was found But now not the making â—nly but also the vvorshipping of the Crucifix is a matter of high religion in the same Church of Rome WILLIAM BISHOP VERITAS non quaerit latebras Truth is not ashamed of her selfe nor coueteth to hide her head in corners vvhen shee may with safety be suffered to shew her face publikely That decree of the Christian Emperour Theodosius is extant and to be seene in the very corps of the ciuil law vvhat needed then M. Abbot to runne vnto a late obscure authour called Petrus Crinitus Peter with the long haire to seeke that which is of so good record in so famous a volume thinke you that it is without some mistery that he being thirsty would leaue the fresh fountaine and runne to drinke of the dirty puddle Latet anguis in herbae There is a padde in the straw A strange longing he had to finde out some cauil against any part of the doctrine of the Church of Rome and because that could not be by the true and ful report of the Catholike Emperours decrees he would needs fly to some broken relation of he cared not whom to blinde his vnwary reader vvithal The decree then as it vvas made by the Emperour and standeth Authentikely in the Code maketh much for the honour of the Crosse for he commanded That the signe of the Crosse should not be ingrauen Lib. 1. Codi tit leg Cùm sit nobis or painted on the pauement Ne sacrum signum pedibus calcaretur that the holy signe of the Crosse might not be trodden vnder feete Which said decree of Theodosius the elder the Emperour Tyberius the second one of his Godly successours vnderstanding wel vvhen he espied a Crosse cut in marble lying on the ground he commanded it to be lifted vp saying Paul Diaconus lib. 18. Rerum Romanarum We ought to blesse our fore-head and breast with the Crosse of our Lord and we treade it vnder our feete In what high estimation the signe of the Crosse was vvith that most bright mirrour of Emperors Constantine the great and how gloriously it was placed in their Diademes Pallaces and publike places no man can be ignorant that is acquainted with their Hystories And somwhat I haue said thereof already in the question of Images therefore I doe here omit to speake any more of a matter so euident I might here by the way blame M. Abbot not only for his deceitful dealing but also because he forgetteth vvhereabout he goes for his drift here is to teach that S. Peter and S. Paules successours the Bishops of Rome did of old teach another doctrine then these of later yeares doe now of vvhich number of Bishops Theodosius the Emperour was none but many such faults as this I let passe vvittingly or else I should neuer make an end And vvhereas he addeth That these Emperours did forbidde the making of the Crosse according vnto the doctrine of the ancient Church of Rome Obserue first that it is so said only without any proof and besides it is auouched very impudently as being flat repugnant vnto the knowne and notorious practise of Constantine the great their late and most famous predecessour Now to the next ROBERT ABBOT Greg. lib. 9. Moral ca. 1. 14. GREGORY Bishop of Rome taught That al the merit of our vertue al our righteousnesse is but vice and vnrighteousnesse if it be stricktly examined it needeth therefore praier after righteousnesse saith he that whereas being sifted it would quaile it may by the only mercy of the Iudge stand for good Bernard in Annot. 1. De lib. Arbit Grat. In fine Trident. sess 6 cap. 16. Yea and Bernard by the same doctrine of the Church of Rome saith That mens merits are not such as that eternal life is due vnto them of right or that God should doe wrong if he did not giue the same they are the way to the Kingdome saith he but not the cause of obtaining the
censure and touch of reproach vpon the same his worke called Bibliotheca Patrum Lastly concerning the doctrine of Predestination I reade not that the Pelagians were called in question about it nor yet for Satisfaction vvherefore M. Abbot must first out of some good Authors shew their errours therein before he goe about to slander vs vvith the imitation of them but as I am vvel assured of the later so I thinke he wil not in hast performe the former ROBERT ABBOT I Omit many other matters that might here be added perswading my selfe that I said enough to trouble M. Bishop in the prouing of that that he hath so propounded that the principal pillars of the Church of Rome in her most flourishing estate taught in al points of religion the same doctrine that now shee holdeth c. only for conclusion let me aske him what Bishop of Rome there was for the space of a thousand yeares that practised or taught that concerning Pardons which is now practised and taught in the Church of Rome that the Bishop of Rome hath any authority to giue such libels of pardon or that it is in him to giue faculties and authority to others to graunt the like vvith reseruation of special causes to himselfe or that he can for saying such and such praiers or for doing this or that release a man from Purgatory for so many hundred or thousand yeares vvhat Bishop of Rome was there that did proclaime a Iubilee vvith promise that al that would come to Rome to visit the Churches that yeare should haue ful and perfect forgiuenesse of al their sinnes or that did charge the Angels as did Clement the sixt that vvhosoeuer should die in his journey thitherward they should bring his soule into the glory of Paradise Balaeus in Clem. sexto which of them did take vpon him to Canonize a Saint vvho euer beleeued or taught as it is now receiued in the Church of Rome that the Bishops blessing is the forgiuenesse of venial sinnes Sextus in proem in glossa Rhem. Test in Math. 10. vers 12. Other innouations I wil passe ouer to further occasion but concerning these matters in this place I would pray M. Bishop to let vs be satisfied how the principal pillars of the Church of Rome haue in al points taught the same that the Church of Rome teacheth now The truth is that as the name of Theseus shippe continued a long time vvhen as it was so altered by putting in of new plankes and boordes as that it had nothing left of that that was in it when it was first built by Theseus so the Church of Rome stil continueth her name and would be taken to be the same albeit by chopping and changing shee is come to that passe that shee hath in a manner nothing left of that doctrine for vvhich shee vvas first called the Church of Rome But M. Bishop taketh vpon him to proue the contrary let vs now examine what his proofes are WILLIAM BISHOP YOV doe wisely to omit many other matters that you might haue added if they be like vnto these vvhich you haue already put downe for they are proued to be nothing else in manner but falsifications of the ancient Fathers vvritinges or fond illations of your owne bolstered out with a huge and shamelesse troupe of vntruthes the more one omitteth of such baggage and paultry stuffe the more it maketh for his credit Wherefore if M. Abbot had let al this alone no doubt but he should haue saued much of his reputation which by such vnchristian like and vnhonest dealing he is like to leese with the indifferent juditious reader If he perswade himselfe that he hath put me to some paines and trouble to trace out the vntruth of his allegations he is not deceiued for he produceth them so corruptly with such additions substractions misconstructions and euil applications that euery place he cites must needes be turned vnto in the Authours owne workes before a man can repose any trust in him or shal know what answere to make I pray you good Sir if there be any sparke of Christian sincerity left in you let this admonition serue to intreate you not to put your aduersary or reader to such trouble any more Either for loue of the truth or for feare of Gods judgements and rebuke of honest men forbeare to misreport your Authours If it be a shame to bely the Deuil vvhat impudency and impiety is it to bely most reuerend holy and learned Doctors and which much increaseth that hainous crime thereby to blinde Christian people and to draw them along with him to the bottomelesse pit of hel It hath I willingly confesse more troubled me to spend my spare time in discouering vntruthes and dishonest shifts trickes then it should haue done to haue bestowed it in substantial arguing and in round debating of questions in controuersie with short and sound arguments But I hope by this the vpright reader hath seene that M. Abbot was so farre off from troubling me to proue The principal pillars of the Roman Church in her most flourishing estate to haue taught the same doctrine that the present Church of Rome no teacheth that he hath rather furthered it by ministring vnto me so fit an occasion yea omitting others which I could choose my self for my better aduantage I haue not refused to verifie and make good the present doctrine of that Church euen by the testimony of those very authours of vvhich M. Abbot himselfe made choise as of men that spake most against it If then by their verdict who are thought by our aduersaries to be most estranged from vs our cause is confirmed and proued to be most just and veritable vvho is so carelesse of his owne saluation that had rather follow a lying Master leading to perdition then to imbrace so manifest a truth drawing towardes saluation May I not here justly exclaime with the holy King and Prophet and say Psalm 4. O yee Sonnes of men how long wil you be so heauy harted why are you so farre in loue with vanity and seeke after leasing he that is the true light Iohan. 1. who doth illuminate euery man that commeth into this world of his infinite goodnesse and mercy lighten your vnderstanding and incline your harts that you may perceiue and receiue that ingrafted word that truth of Christ preached by his Apostles approued by the most honourable Senate of the ancient Fathers beleeued al the world ouer that hath also continued euer since inuiolably vvhich only and none other can saue your soules Now for a conclusion and vpshot of this matter M. Abbot would faine know What Bishop of Rome for a thousand yeares after Christ had authority to giue any such libel of pardons as are now giuen or that could graunt to others any such faculty with reseruation of special causes to himselfe c. I answere if these be the greatest difficulties that with-hold him from approuing the doctrine
the graue counsel of that sage Lawier Sr. Edward Cooke whose booke â—e citeth wherein is said In the preface of his fift of reportes That controuersies in religion are to be handled with al candor and charity and not with bitter invectiues like men transported with fury To end this point if he hold â—n that course of scurrility he wil driue me and others to giue him ouer in the plaine field for a foule-mouthed wrangler that deserueth no answere Thus much by the way of the manner of his inditing Now to the matter of his booke which doth principally consist in allegation of Authors and applying their sentences to his purpose How insufficiently he hath behaued himselfe therein shal be particularly discyphered 〈◊〉 their proper places I wil here only for a tast of his judgement and sinâ—erity therein giue a touch vnto some general heades thereof First doth 〈◊〉 not euidently proue great want of judgement and discretion to alleage 〈◊〉 vpright witnesses in matters of controuersie such authors as are knowne to al the world to be professed parties of the same side If I should cite for confirmation of the Catholike cause D oct Harding D oct Sanders D oct Stapleton or any other Catholike late writer would not the vnpassionate reader take me for very simple if I thought that any man would the sooner beleeue me for their opinions that were men though most learned and right honest yet not indifferent because they were professed aduocates of the same cause Euen so a man of any wit cannot but maruaile where M. Abbots senses were when he so commonly and confidently for proofe of any doubt doth produce the authority of Bale a late Irish Apostata Frier whome be sometime also calleth Balaeus to make him seeme two worshipful authors that is not worthy to be halfe one Fox Iewel Humphrey Holinshed Sr. Edward Cooke the Magdeburgenses Kemnitius Illyricus Sleidan Hospinian and many others open and professed aduersaries of the Catholike Roman Church and therefore no vpright and fit witnesses against it He without doubt may garnish his margent with variety of quotations that blusheth not to cite so frequently as M. Abbot doth such partial writers But no man I hope wil be so foolish as to giue credit vnto any thing that is no better verified then by the verdict of such false witnesses For to cal one of them to giue testimony is no better then after our English prouerbe to hidde a man aske one of his fellowes whether he be a theefe or no. Againe there is another circumstance in the citing of his late partial authors which maketh it yet more absurd and ridiculous For he sticketh not to produce the credit of a seely writer of this last hundred yeares for verification of a matter done more then a thousand yeares before he was borne For example to proue that Pope Eleutherius acknowledged Lucius King of our Country 1400. yeares past to be supreame gouernour in causes Ecclesiastical Page 26. M. Abbot alleageth Holinshed a Chronicler of our age what a jest is this how knew this late writer what passed so long before his owne time was there not any one Hystoriographer more ancient then he neither Latin nor English that could tel any tidings of such a matter And yet M. Abbot is so il aduised as to perswade vs to receiue it vpon his seely poore credit Of the like stuffe is that in another place of his booke Page 60. to wit that Syritius Bishop of Rome who liued about 1200. yeares agoe was a noueller and that by the worshipful verdict of Polidore Virgil who liued eleauen hundred yeares after him What are learned men growne so carelesse of their credit that they dare let passe to the print such doting follies and so grosse absurdities this may serue for a note of his ouersight in alleadging his owne pew-fellowes for vpright and indifferent vmpeers and late moderne authors for the certainety of ancient matters Now to his citations of the more authentike approued writers whome he doth greatly abuse in diuers and sundry fashions The first and most gentle is when he doth cite their wordes truly but doth apply them cleane contrary to their meaning For example in his Epistle to the Kinges Majesty be approueth his Highnesse course for the answering of Catholike bookes producing for it this sentence out of S. Bernard That though thereby the Heretike arise not from his filth yet the Church may be confirmed in her faith M. Abbot meaning as the sequele of his speech doth import that if thereby men of the Roman religion wil not be conuerted from their errors yet the good Protestants may be confirmed in their new faith which is very farre wide from S. Bernardes expresse declaration as else-where so in that very place For that deuout holy Father was so farre off from disswading any man from the Roman faith that he wisheth al men to make their recourse vnto the See of Rome for resolution of al doubts in faith these be his wordes to Pope Innocentius We must referre to your Apostleship Epist 190. al the scandals and perils vvhich may fal in matter of faith specially because the defects of faith must be holpen where faith cannot faile for to what other See was it euer said Luc. 22. vers 31. I haue prayed for thee Peter that thy faith doe not faile See then what Church S. Bernard would confirme in her faith not the Protestant but the Roman Moreouer in that very discourse out of which M. Abbot â—icketh the former sentence Serm. 66. S. Bernard doth in particuler describe those Heretikes whome he perswaded to arise from their filth to be such as held the Church not to haue beene visible for many yeares but to haue lyen hidde in corners Item that vvould not beleeue â—hat any soules departed went to Purgatory but either to heauen or to hel presently and so defrauded the dead of the prayers of the liuing Also such as vvould disswade from praying to the Saints these and such like are those Heretikes by S. Bernardes judgement whome he would haue to rise from the drosse and dregs of such erronious opinions and returne vnto the Roman Catholike faith Now judge with what conscience M. Abbot could cul some wordes out of the same discourse to perswade men by the countenance of S. Bernard to forsake praying to Saints and for the dead and the whole Roman religion so strongly established by that reuerend religious Father in the very same place This may suffice for a proofe of his misapplying the Fathers sentences wherein he offendeth as often and as grieuously I thinke as euer did any Christian writer as shal be hereafter shewed Now to another tricke of his no lesse shameful which is the misconstruing of their wordes let this serue for a paterne Against the worshipping of Images he produceth the authority of S. Gregory Bishop of Rome Page 104. Commending as he fableth the zeale of
Serenus Bishop of Massilia who could not endure that any thing should be worshipped that is made with handes and telleth him that he should forbidde the people the worshipping of them c. Here are many foule faults for S. Gregory did not commend but reprehend the vndiscreet zeale of that Bishop who did breake some pictures set in the Church because some late conuerted Heathens not yet wel instructed in the Christian religion did adore them as if they had beene Gods S. Gregory telleth him plainely That that should not be broken which was not set vp in the Church to be adored but only to instruct them that were ignorant Secondly though S. Gregory forbidde Images to be adored as Gods yet doth he teach them to be worshipped as representations of most holy personages which may be seene plainely to omit diuers other places by his letters vnto Secundinus Lâ—v. 7. Epist 53. ad SecuÌ„d To whome he sent the Images of our Sauiour of the blessed Virgin Mary and of the holy Apostles S. Peter and S. Paul telling him first that his petition to haue those Images did greatly please him for saith he thou doest loue him with al thy hart and whole intention whose Image thou desirest to haue before thine eies and straight after addeth I know that thou doest not therefore desire to haue our Sauiours Image that thou maiest worship it as a God but for a remembrance of the Sonne of God that thou maiest waxe warme in his loue whose Image thou doest behold and we truly doe cast our selues downe before the said Image not as before a God-head but vve adore him whome by the Image we remember to haue beene borne or suffered or to sit in his throne Can any thing be more manifest then that S Gregory approued both the hauing of Images which be sent to his friend and setting them in Churches for the instruction of the vnlearned and also worshipping of them euen so farre-foorth as humbly to kneele before them which he himselfe as wel practised in his owne person as also taught others so to doe which is al that we Catholikes doe defend as greatly condemning as the Protestants themselues that any Christian should adore them as Gods or giue any Godly honour vnto them How wrongfully then did M. Abbot alleage S. Gregories wordes and how shamefully hath he misconstrued them cleane besides that most holy Fathers meaning with whom in faith and doctrine we doe fully agree But let vs yet goe one step further more euidently to discouer how perfidiously M. Abbot doth deale with those ancient and most holy Doctors He is not ashamed to cite them sometimes in confirmation of those errors the which they doe expresly confute in the very same place take this for an assay Epiphanius saith he an Easterne Bishop Page 62. euen in the time of Hierome acknowledgeth for true those wordes of Socrates that the Priests and Bishops thereof were not forced by any law to forbeare their wiues and that many of them whiles they were Bishops had children borne vnto them by their lawfull married wiues and quoteth Epiphanius against the 59. Heresie of the Cathary where in deede he handleth that matter but after another manner These he his wordes Indeede the holy preaching of God doth not since Christs comming admit them to take holy orders who haue married againe after their first wiues death in respect of the excellent dignity of Priest-hood and this doth the Church of God obserue sincerely but so doth not the Church of the Protestants ergo it is not the Church of God Then he commeth to our present purpose and saith The same Church of God doth not admit and receiue a man that hath a wife liuing and that getteth children to be a Bishop Priest Deacon or Subdeacon but him that either abstaineth from the company of his wife or else liueth widdower and that specially where the Ecclesiastical Canons be sincere and not corrupted Hitherto Epiphanius as flat contrary to M. Abbots report of him as can be for he reported that whiles they were Bishops they had children borne vnto them and there was no law that forced them to forâ—eare their wiues Epiphanius telleth vs otherwise That the Canons of the Church which are Ecclesiastical lawes did not suffer any to be Bishop or Priest that kept company with their wiues And â—hich maketh the fault the more palbable Epiphanius addeth an objection vpon which it seemeth M. Abbot grounded his assertion But â—hou vvilt say that in some places Subdeacons Deacons and Priests doe yet get children note by the way that in no place how corâ—upt soeuer Bishops so did as M. Abbot reporteth but this answereth holy Epiphanius is not according vnto the Canon but after the minde of men that in tract of time fainted and so foorth Where he proueth abstinence from marriage or continual continency to be not only decent for the high and holy calling of Clergie men but also necessary for their daily praiers and for the suddaine occasions of their sacred function so that finally S. Epiphanius is found to confute that directly which M. Abbot reports him to acknowledge for true And if this be not most wilful corruption and falsification of these learned Fathers sentences I know not what may be Because this is a point that toucheth euery Christian that hath care of his saluation so neare Page 122. I wil insist more vpon it Is not this saith M. Abbot a horrible impiety that standeth written in their law our Lord God the Pope and then doubleth it saying To beleeue that our Lord God the Pope could not so decree as he hath decreed should be accounted heresie In the Canon law which he calleth our law is no such horrible impiety but in his report is a double lie The former is to auouch that to stand in the law which is only written in the glosse which is no law as al men know The second and the more shameful is that it standeth not in the glosse neither but he belieth both the one and the other Extrauag Ioan. 22. cum inter in glossa let any man turne to the place quoted by himselfe and there towardes the end vpon the word declaramus he shal finde only Dominum nostrum Papam our Lord the Pope and the word God is foisted in by M. Abbot to make vp that horrible impiety of which he speaketh As very a lie is it which he citeth out of the Decretals of Pope Gregory Page 119. that forsooth the Pope is not a meere man whereas the Canon hath De translat Episco cap. Quanto Non puri hominis sed veri Dei vicem gerit that is The Pope is the vicegerent or vicar not of a meere man but of true God to wit of Christ who is both God and Man No more truth is in that assertion of his out of venerable Bede Page 199. our very holy and most learned country-man Then were
portion nor right nor memorial in Hierusalem which is the city of peace nor in this heauenly worke and seruice of Iesus Christ Hitherto M. Abbots owne wordes with a very litle alteration as may be seene in the margent these therefore must needes presse his aduersary very sore when they may so easily and truly be turned against himselfe W. BISHOP Touching his mangling and peruerting those texts of scripture vvhich he so clowterly botcheth together in the former place of this passage I haue already spoken in the Preface now to them of the later connexion Because M. Abbot is not yet allowed for an Euangelist let vs take away his owne vvordes and then vve shal presently see how handsomly the vvordes of holy Scripture hang together these they be It is not for you but for vs to build the house to our God Esdra 4. Feare the Lord seruing Idols also 2. Reg. 17. v. 34. old custome Ibid. 40. Hauing no portion nor right nor memorial in Hierusalem Nehemi 2. vers 20. Is not this trimme stuffe what reuelation hath he to joine together wordes that be by the holy Ghost set so farre asunder wel let vs giue him leaue to abuse Gods word at his pleasure or else he wil take it whether we wil or wil not but with what face can a Protestant say to the Catholikes that it is not for you Papists but for vs Protestants to build vp houses vnto God vvhereas most of the Churches through al Christendome built to serue God in vvere erected by the Catholikes and the Protestants haue rather pulled downe an hundred then built vp one for Gods seruice is not this sentence then properly applied by him That they also are rather like the Samaritans then vve I haue proued in my Preface Now to the last wordes that are most of al abused for old custome in that place of the second of the Kinges is not taken for ancient traditions of either doctrine or ceremony as M. Abbot would haue it to sound but for an inueterate euil custome of bad life and transgressing of Gods commandements for which the Israelites being often rebuked by the Prophets vvould not amend so that those wordes are taken cleane besides the right sence But there followeth such a consequence that it would procure a vomit to a weake stomacke It is forsooth that because the Israelites would not leaue their old custome of euil liuing therefore the Horomites Ammatites and Arabians meere strangers to them and of other countries should haue no place nor right nor memorial in Hierusalem for to men of those countries were these wordes of Nehemias spoken by the Israelites themselues and that aboue seauenty yeares after the other of old custome Did you euer see so miserable renting of Gods word in sunder and such paltry patching of it together againe without any time or reason without any likely resemblance or good coherence Doth not this argue the man to be vvel seene in the Bible or rather desperately audatious that dares â—o offer such violence vnto the vnuiolable word of God On Sir ROBERT ABBOT INDEEDE it is true that he saith that vvhatsoeuer talent of learning he hath attained vnto the vse and fruite thereof is due to his Majesty but the greater is his sinne to vvithdraw it from him to whom it is due being so farre engaged to the Pope as that his Majesty cannot presume of any true and faithful vse thereof As for the proofe that he alleageth of his sincere and dutiful affection it is vnsound For to this purpose I may wel demand as did Constantius the Emperour father to the great Constantine Euseb de vita Constant lib. 1. cap. 11. How should they be deemed faithful vnto their Prince who are found to be perfidious and vnfaithful towardes God It appeareth by that secret which he vttereth in his Epistle towardes the end that his loue is according to the rule of Bias if at least it were his Sic ama tanquam aliquando osurus Loue so as being perhaps in time to hate Certaine it is whatsoeuer he pretendeth that neither he nor his euer meant his Majesty any good vnlesse they could gaine him to be what they would haue him to be WILLIAM BISHOP I Am so farre from vvithdrawing the vse and fruite of my poore talent from his Majesty and the seruice of my country though for the obtaining of my smal talent of diuinity I haue not beene much beholding to either of them that I doe daily imploy it therein to the vttermost of my power by praying for them and seeking to instruct and confirme them in the true faith of Christ The vse of my talent is due vnto his Majesty I confesse being now my natural Prince and lawful Soueraigne yet so as almighty God vvho bestowed it on me be principally serued thereby Neither am I so engaged vnto the Popes Holinesse but that I may as fully and faithfully serue his Majesty as euer any true subject did his lawful Soueraigne Our Sauiour made no doubt but that a true Israelite might giue to Caesar that which belonged to Caesar and to God that which was his Neither did S. Peter or S. Paul make any question but that good Christians might perfectly obey their Princes and yet wholy discent from them in matter of religion and therein take their whole direction from strangers And euen those Christians that Constantius the Emperour did so commend and loue for their constancy in religion were as farre engaged to the Bishop of Rome then as vve be now and did no more follow the same Emperour Constantius in matter of faith then vve Catholikes doe our Liege Lord King Iames yea vvere somewhat further of him he being a Heathen and no Christian as our King is so fit and proper commonly be M. Abbots sentences taken out of the ancient fathers that they serue much more naturally for our purpose euen as this doth thus applied Euseb de vita Constant. lib. 1. cap. 11. Like as that renowmed Emperour Constantius did highly esteeme of those Christians that would not for any worldly losse or disgrace no not to winne their owne Princes loue or fauour deny their religion or falter in the confession of it yea further was of opinion That they who were so fast and faithful to their God would also proue most trusty to their Prince though of a farre different profession from them Euen so his Majesty after the example of so worthy and wise an Emperour finding his Catholike subjects so firme in their religion that no temporal discredit or incommodity how great or grieuous soeuer can remoue them from the due confession of it should thereupon perswade himself that they who are so constant and true seruants vnto God must needes also proue most loial and dutiful vnto their King albeit of another religion And it may in this manner also very aptly be returned vpon M. Abbot himselfe whom I haue before proued to abuse Gods word very miserably to
6. who to proue it doth cite euen the very same vvordes out of Hieremy And so 1200 yeares before him that famous Father S. Chrysostome did alleage the like out of the same chapter of the Prophet to the same purpose saying Homil. 55. in Mathaeum The Father said to Hieremy I haue put thee as a pillar of yron and wal of brasse c. yet the Father placed him but ouer one nation to vvit that of the Iewes but Christ hath placed Peter ouer the vniuersal world Briefly we granting the like power to be in the Bishop of Rome that was in Hieremy the Prophet whose wordes he vseth it can be no more deduced thence that Kings hold their Princely diademes of him then that the King of Iuda did his of Hieremy vvhich was neither mediately nor immediately for only a certaine spiritual power to roote out Idolatry errour and iniquity and to plant religion and vertue vvas by those vvordes giuen to men of the Church Which if it doe in some certaine case extend to the deposition of a Prince as I reade it hath beene practised by most juditious learned and holy Personages though I doe not reade vvhere it is by the Church defined to be any article of our faith yet no man is so simple as not to deeme it more holsome and expedient for the vniforme and peacible estate of Christendome that such supereminent power should rather rest in the supreme Pastor of Christs Church then be left vnto the discretion of the Ministers and Clergie of euery country according to the Protestants opinion and practise It being I say granted that the Bishop of Rome may in some case depose any temporal Magistrate yet can it not there hence be gathered that Kinges doe hold their Kingdomes of the Popes Holinesse For vvhen one King vvil not let his neighbour Prince liue in peace by him but doth extremely wast his Dominions kil his subjects and make hauocke of his country the Prince so molested if he cannot otherwise haue remedy may most lawfully by force of armes proceede euen to the deposition of that injurious King And yet the inuader did not hold his Kingdome of the other any more then the other did depend vpon him but was an absolute King himselfe as the other vvas notwithstanding by his intollerable outrages offered to his neighbour Prince he made himselfe punishable and subject to the other against whom he so grieuously trespassed In like manner if a Prince by most extreme persecution of Christs flocke doe become subject to the correction of the chiefe Pastor thereof yet thence it followeth not that that Pastor had power to dispose of his Kingdome at his pleasure or that the King did hold his Diademe of him either mediately or immediately howbeit the Prince through his owne exorbitant and otherwise remedilesse fault doe justly fal into the Pastors handes to be punished Here I doe by the way most humbly craue of them to whom it doth appertaine that it may without passion be duly considered whether we Catholikes doe not his Majesty more faithful seruice and shew our selues much more careful of the quiet continuance of his glorious happy estate when by al humble and faire meanes we doe labour most diligently to entreat his most excellent Majesty to deale more gratiously and mildly with his poore Catholike subjects then those hot-spurre Ministers vvho labour tooth and naile to cast their louing Soueraigne into such a brake of briars by incensing his Highnesse to hold so extreme a course against them For if his Majesty may be vvonne to follow the gentle and sweet inclination of his owne nature and to qualifie the rigour of the lawes against recusants in such temperate manner that the said recusant Catholikes may not be oppressed thereby the Popes holinesse without al doubt wil neuer goe about to depriue his Majesty of his regal dignity how forward soeuer he be otherwise to imbrace and aduance his owne religion for not so much for fauouring the Protestants as for extreame persecution of the Catholikes as the former example of neighbour Kinges doth shew that most seuere censure of the supreme Pastor of the Church is inflicted Wherefore vvhen it shal please his Highnesse to condescend gratiously vnto our humble and daily supplication for more moderation and mercy then shal his Majesty vvithout al doubt as euery man may easily perceiue take away al jealousie of those buzzes which seeme so greatly to disquiet the whole state Now to that point wherein the Kinges supremacy lieth according to M. Abbots declaration If it were only by lawes to prouide and to take special order that God be wel serued his word truly taught his Sacraments duly administred and that al Bishops and Pastors performe their duties then I should thinke him a badde Christian that would not acknowledge that his supremacy And I most willingly admit that the good Kinges of Israel did so but the man is so shallow shuttle-witted and vncertaine that there is no trust to be giuen to his declaration M. Perkins goeth more substantially to worke and affirmeth the Supremacy to consist not in the points aboue mentioned Reformed Catholike page 285. but in authority to declare which bookes of Scripture be Canonical which not and to determine finally of al controuersies and doubtes rising thereupon to cal general Councels and to ratifie their decrees to make Ecclesiastical lawes that binde al the Church and to excommunicate whosoeuer shal obstinately resist or breake them to consecrate and institute Patriarkes Metropolitanes and many such like vvhich when M. Abbot shal proue to appertaine justly to Kinges and Princes whether they be men women or children then we vvil allow the supreme temporal Magistrate to be also supreme gouernour in causes Ecclesiastical In the meane season we vvil pray that God wil vouchsafe to make them good and dutiful children of the one holy Cacholike and Apostolike Church and that they may humbly learne those high misteries of religion vvhereof most Princes as al the world seeth vvould be very vnmeete judges and also very euil dispensours What variety of religions hath growne by that kinde of supremacy what dissolution of Church discipline vvhat corruption of ciuil justice vvhat iniquity and deceit in contracts and bargaines vvhat oppression of the poore and generally what loosenesse and leudnesse of conuersation euery true Christian man doth see and lament and daily pray to almighty God our most merciful Father for amendment That vvorldly peace and temporal prosperity be no assured markes of Gods fauour nor of his true religion King Dauid is a sufficient witnesse Psal 72. Whose feete as he writeth were almost moued and beganne to slippe through his zeale against the wicked because he saw them suffered to liue in such prosperity and to die in so great peace And our Sauiour in expresse tearmes teacheth Math. 5. vers 45. That our Father in heauen maketh his Sunne to rise vpon good and hadde and raineth
vpon just and vnjust that is bestoweth out of his owne bounty many temporal commodities vpon them that doe ful litle deserue them at his handes Wherefore M. Abbot was ouer-seene to bring in the Princes prosperity for proofe of the goodnesse of their religion Let vs proceede WILLIAM BISHOP BVT sithence there be in this our miserable age great diuersities of religions and yet but one only wherewith God is wel pleased and truly serued as saith the Apostle Ephes 4. One body one spirit as you are called into one hope of your vocation one Lord one faith one baptisme my most humble sute and supplication to your high Majesty is that to your eternal good you wil embrace maintaine and set forth that only true Catholike and Apostolike faith wherein your most roial Progenitours liued and died or if you cannot be wonne so soone to alter that religion in which it hath beene your Highnesse misfortune to haue beene bredde and brought vp that then in the meane season of your tender goodnesse you would not suffer the sincere Professours of the other to be so heauily persecuted R. ABBOT SECT 3. Page 14. HERE M. Bishop propoundeth briefly to his Majesty the summe of his petition the foundation whereof he laieth in a principle which we acknowledge to be a truth that whereas there be diuersities of religions in the world there is but one only where vvith God is truly serued Hereupon he frameth his humble sute that his Majesty wil embrace and maintaine that only true Catholike and Apostolike faith but that needeth no sute of his for his Majesty already doth that For what is the Catholike faith but the faith of the Catholike Church and which then shal we take to be the Catholike Church surely the Catholike Church by the very signification of the word is the vniuersal Church so called Quia per totum est August de vnit Eccles Athanas Q 81. Because it is ouer al or through al the world and is not tied to any country place person or condition of men not this Church or that Church as S. Augustine speaketh * August in psal 56. But the Church dispersed throughout the world and not that which consisteth iâ— men now presently liuing but so as there belong to it both those that haue beene before vs and that shal be after vs to the worldes end whereby we see how absurdly the Church of Rome taketh vnto it the name of the Catholike Church and how absurdly the Papists take vnto them the name of Catholikes The Catholike Church is the vniuersal Church the Church of Rome a particular Church there fore to say the Catholike Roman Church is al one as to say the vniuersal particular Church To speake by their rule the Roman Church is the head and al other Churches are members to it but the Catholike Church comprehendeth al therefore to say the Roman Church is the Catholike Church is as much to say the head is the vvhole body Neither doth it helpe them that of old particular Churches vvere called by the name of Catholike Church it being no otherwise done but as in toto similari in a body vvhere al the parts are of the same nature vvhere euery part hath the name of the vvhole and no one part can challenge the same more then another as in the elements euery part of the fire is fire euery part of the vvater vvater and so of the like for so euery Church where true faith was taught August coÌ„t Epist Fund cap. 4. was called to distinguish it from heretical assemblies the Catholike Church and euery Bishop of such a Church vvas called a Bishop of the Catholike Church and no one Church more then another assumed vnto it any prerogatiue of that title Therefore they called the Catholike faith the faith that vvas receiued by the Church throughout the vvorld and the true Christians vvere called Catholikes August Epist 48. Ex communicatione totius orbis by hauing communion and fellowship of faith vvith the Church of the whole world it is therefore a meere vsurpation whereby the Papists cal the Roman Church the Catholike Church WILLIAM BISHOP M. ABBOT is now at length come from his extrauagant roâ—ing narrations vnto some kinde of argumentation Here he wil giue a proofe of his valour here we shal soone try whether he come so wel furnished into the field that he neede not to doubt of the victory as in the beginning he vaunted of himselfe or vvhether his special skil and force doe not rather lie in railing at vs and in cosening of his reader then in any sound kinde of reasoning That doctrine vvhich he learned out of S. Augustine concerning the signification of the vvord Catholike vve vvillingly admit off to wit That religion is Catholike that faith is Catholike which is spread ouer al the world and hath beene alwaies imbraced and practised euen from the Apostles time to our daies and such is the religion vvhich I vvould haue perswaded his Majesty to receiue in to his Princely protection To this vvhat saith M. Abbot marry that his Majesty hath already receiued it How doth he proue that not by any one plaine and round argument directly to the purpose but from the Catholike religion falleth to the Catholike Church and so spendeth the time in most friuolous arguing against the Roman Church of vvhich I made no mention at al. Doth he not deserue a lawrel garland for the vvorshipful ranging of his battle and is he not like to fight it out valiantly that thus in the beginning flieth from the point of the question Proue good Sir that his Majesty embraceth and maintaineth that religion vvhich is spread ouer al the vvorld and that hath continued euer since the Apostles time and then you may justly say that he vpholdeth the Catholike religion according to your owne explication out of the ancient Fathers But because M. Abbot saw this to be impossible he gaue it the slippe and turneth himselfe to proue the Roman religion not to be the Catholike and perceiuing that also as hard to performe as the other he shuffles from the religion and faith of vvhich the question vvas vnto the Roman Church that is from the faith professed at Rome to the persons inhabiting the citty of Rome whom he wil proue not to be Catholikes and the Roman Church not to be the Catholike Church Doe you marke vvhat winding and turning and what doubling this simple Minister is driuen vnto ere he can come to make any shew of a silly argument But let vs giue him leaue to vvander vvhither his fancy leadeth him that vve may at length heare vvhat he would say It is forsooth That the Church of Rome doth absurdly cal her selfe the Catholike Church and that Papists doe absurdly take to themselues the name of Catholikes because the Catholike Church is the vniuersal Church but the Church of Rome is a particular Church therefore to say the Roman Catholike Church is
of their Church Wherevpon if you demand of a French Catholike of what Church he is his answere wil be that he is of the Catholike Roman Church where he addeth Roman to distinguish himselfe from al Sectaries vvho doe cal themselues somtimes Catholikes though most absurdly and to specifie that he is such a Catholike as doth wholy joine with the Roman Church in faith and religion Euen as the vvord Catholike was linked at first vvith Christian to distinguish a true Christian beleeuer from an Heretike according to that of Pacianus an ancient Authour Epistola ad Simphorian Christian is my name Catholike is my surname so now a daies the Epitheton Roman is added vnto Catholike to separate those Catholikes that joine with the Church of Rome in faith from other sectaries who doe sometimes cal themselues also Catholikes though very ridiculously because they be diuided in faith from the greatest part of the vniuersal world Out of the premises may be gathered that the Roman Church may wel signifie any Church that holdeth and maintaineth the same faith which the Roman doth whence it followeth that M. Abbot either dealt doubly vvhen he said the Roman Church to be a particular Church or else he must confesse himselfe to be one of those Doctors vvhom the Apostle noteth 1. Tim. 1. vers 7. For not vnderstanding what they speake nor of what they affirme Now to this his second sophistication The Roman Church by our rule is the head and al other Churches are members to it but the Catholike comprehendeth al ergo to say the Roman Church is the Catholike is to say the head is the whole body Here is first a mishapen argument by vvhich one may proue or disproue any thing for example I wil proue by the like that the Church of England is not Catholike thus The Church of England by their crooked rule is a member of the Catholike Church but the Catholike Church comprehendeth al where fore to say the English Church is the Catholike Church is to say a member is the whole body Besides the counterfait fashion of the argument there is a great fallacy in it for to omit Fallacia accidentis that vve say not the Church of Rome but the Bishop of Rome to be the head of the Church it is a foule fault in arguing as al Logitians doe vnderstand when one thing is said to be another by a metaphore to attribute al the properties of the metaphore to the other thing For example Christ our Sauiour is metaphorically said to be a Lion Apocal. 5. vers 5. Vicit Leo de tribu Iuda now if there hence any man would inferre that a Lion hath foure legges and is no reasonable creature ergo Christ hath as many or is not indued with reason he might himselfe therefore be wel taken for an vnreasonable and blasphemous creature Euen so must M. Abbot be vvho shifteth from that propriety of the metaphore bead which was to purpose vnto others that are cleane besides the purpose For as Christ vvas called a Lion for his inuincible fortitude so the Bishop of Rome is called the head of the Church for his authority to direct and gouerne the same but to take any other propriety of either Lion or Head when they be vsed metaphorically and to argue out of that is plainly to play the sophister Wherefore to conclude this passage M. Abbot hath greatly discouered his insufficiency in arguing by propounding argumēts that offend and be very vitious both in matter and forme and that so palpably that if young Logitians should stand vpon such in the paruies they would be hissed out of the schooles it must needes be then an exceeding great shame for a Diuine to vse them to deceiue good Christian people in matter of saluation And if after so great vaunts of giuing ful satisfaction to the reader and of stopping his aduersaries mouth that he should not haue a word to reply he be not ashamed to put such bables as these into print he cannot choose but make himselfe a mocking-stocke to the world surely his writinges are more meete to stoppe mustard-pots if I mistake not much then like to stoppe any meane schollers mouth ROBERT ABBOT IT is therefore a meere vsurpation whereby the Papists cal the Roman Church the Catholike and the very same that the Donatists of old did vse Aug. Ep. 48. They held the Catholike Church to beat Cartenna in Africa and the Papists hold it to be at Rome in Italy they would haue the Church to be called Catholike Ibid. breu collat 2. cap. dici 3. not by reason of the communion and society thereof through the whole world but by reason of the perfection of doctrine and sacraments which they falsly challenged to themselues the same perfection the Church of Rome now arrogateth to it selfe and wil therefore be called the Catholike Church Cōt Crescon grammat lib. 2. cap. 37. Epist 48. From Cartenna the Donatists ordained Bishops to other countries euen to Rome it selfe And from Rome by the Papists order must Bishops be authorised to al other churches They vvould be taken to be Catholikes for keeping communion with the Church of Cartenna and so the Papists vvil be counted Catholikes for keeping communion with the Church of Rome They held Ibidem that howsoeuer a man beleeued he could not be saued vnlesse he did communicate with the Church of Cartenna And the Papists hold that there is no saluation likewise but in communicating vvith the Church of Rome The Donatists vvere not so absurd in the one but the Papists are as absurd and ridiculous in the other WILLIAM BISHOP IN the former passage M. Abbot bestowed an argument or two raked out of the rotten rubbish of those walles to vse some of his owne wordes vvhich vvere before broken downe by men of our side Now he commeth to his owne fresh inuention as I take it for it is a fardle of such beggarly base stuffe and so ful of falshood and childish follies that any other man I vveene vvould not for very shame haue let it passe to the print It consisteth in a comparison and great resemblance that is betweene the old doating Donatists and the new presumptuous Papists if M. Abbot dreame not The Donatists saith he held the Catholike Church to be at Cartenna and the Papists doe hold it to be at Rome in Italy False on both sides because we doe not hold it to be so at Rome as they did at Cartenna for we hold it to be so at Rome as it is besides also dispersed al the world ouer they that it vvas wholy included vvithin the straight boundes of Cartenna in Mauritania and her confines so that whosoeuer was conuerted in any other country must goe thither to be purged from their sinnes as S. Augustine testifieth in expresse tearmes Epistola 48. in the very place by M. Abbot alleaged False also in the principal point that the
Donatists held the Catholike Church to be at Cartenna for there dwelt only the Rogatists who were as S. Augustine there speaketh Breuissimum frustrum de frustro maiore A most smal gobbet or fragment broken out of a greater peece that is to say a few schismatical fellowes fallen from the Donatists as the Puritans are from the Protestants or the Anabaptists from the Sacramentaries so that although men of that sect held the Catholike Church to be at Cartenna yet the maine body of the Donatists maintained it not to be there at al but held that congregation of Cartenna to be vvholy schismatical and no true member of the Catholike Church This first part then of the comparison is most vgly and monstrously false The second is not vnlike The Donatists would haue the Church to be called Catholike not by reason of the communion and society thereof through the whole world but by reason of the perfection of doctrine and sacraments which they falsly challenged to themselues the same perfection the Church of Rome now arrogateth to her selfe Here are many faults the first is a grosse lie in the chiefe branch for the Donatists did not cal the Church Catholike for the perfection of doctrine and sacraments see S. Augustine in both places who expresly deliuereth Breui collat cap. 2. diei 3. Epist. 48. that it was for the fulnesse of sacraments Ex plenitudine sacramentorum or for the obseruation of al Gods commandements Ex obseruatione omnium diuinorum praeceptorum of perfection of doctrine they said not one word they were more sharpe-vvitted as S. Augustine obserueth then to goe about to proue vniuersality by perfection which is not vniuersal But seing wel that they could not defend their congregation to be Catholike that is vniuersal but by some kinde of vniuersality they defended it to be so called for the vniuersality fulnesse of sacraments and coÌ„mandements that is because their Church retained al the sacraments that the Catholikes did and professed to keepe al Gods commandements as fully as they M. Abbots former fault then in this second point of resemblance and that a foule one is in that he belieth the Donatists And more palpably should he haue belied the Roman Church if he had justly brought in the resemblance to wit if he had said as due proportion required that vve hold our Church to be Catholike as the Donatists did theirs for the perfection of doctrine and sacraments vvhich is so manifestly vntrue and so cleerely against the doctrine of al Catholike writers that he that was wont to blush at nothing seemeth yet ashamed to auouch it openly and yet doth at last traile it in deceitfully As for perfection of doctrine and sacraments though it be only in the Catholike Church yet it is so farre wide from the signification and vse of the vvord Catholike that none except such wise men as M. Abbot is doe thinke any thing to be Catholike because it is perfect The third particle of the resemblance is That from Cartennathe the Donatists ordained Bishops to other countries euen to Rome it selfe And from Rome by the Papists order Bishops be authorised to al other Churches I am not so copious as to afford to euery leasing of M. Abbot a new phrase vvherefore the reader I hope wil beare with my rudenesse if I cal sometimes a lie by the name of a lie It is an vntrue tale that the Donatists ordained Bishops from Cartenna for they could not abide that place but esteemed it to be Schismatical as you haue heard before He doth misreport S. Augustine vvho saith Lib. 2. cont Crescon c. 37 Quò ex Africa ordinare paucis vestris soletis Episcopum you Donatists are wont to order and send a Bishop thither to your few companions out of Africa not from Cartenna in Mauritania Neither doth the Catholike Church appoint that euery Bishop should goe to Rome to take holy orders and from thence to be sent to other Catholike countries but in euery other region where be three Catholike Bishops they may be lawfully consecrated albeit for vnities sake and to preserue due order they be confirmed by the Bishop of Rome the supreme head vnder Christ of the Catholike Church The fourth point of the comparison is most absurd for the Donatists were so farre from thinking them Catholikes that kept communion with the Church of Cartenna that they detested and abhorred their company as Schismatikes Neither doe we cal any men Catholikes for keeping coÌ„munion with the Church of Rome if it be taken for that particular Church which is contained within the vvalles of Rome but because that communicating with that Church in faith and religion they doe communicate with al other of the same faith which are spread al the world ouer Finally the fift is as false as the fourth and in the same sort to be confuted True it is that the Donatists thought that none could be saued out of their congregation which is almost a common position of euery sect and heresie but most sure it is that there is no saluation out of the true Church of Christ no more then was out of the Arke of Noë in the general deluge vvherefore whosoeuer doth not communicate with the Church of Rome vvhich is the chiefe member thereof in society of faith and sacraments is out of the state of grace and saluation according to that of S. Hierome to Pope Damasus I following no chiefe but Christ Epistola 7. tit 2. joine my selfe to the communion of Peters chaire vpon that Rocke I know the Church to be built whosoeuer doth eate the Paschal lambe out of this house he is prophane he that is not found within the Arke of Noë shal perish c. vvhere there is much more to this purpose To conclude this passage seing that M. Abbot went about to proue the Church of Rome to be like that of the Donatists by no one sound argument but by meere fabling lying he must looke vnlesse he repent Apocal. 21. vers 8. to haue his part with al liars in the poole burning with fire and brimstone And if it please the reader to heare at what great square the Donatists vvere vvith the Church of Rome to which M. Abbot doth so often resemble them I wil briefly shew it out of the best records of that time S. Augustine speaketh thus to the Donatist Petilian Lib. 2. cont Petili c. 51. What hath the Church or See of Rome done to thee in which Peter did sit and now sitteth Anastatius why doest thou cal the Apostolical chaire the chaire of pestilence See how friendly the Donatists saluted the Church of Rome stiling it the chaire of pestilence Lib. 2. cont Parmeni Optatus Bishop of Mileuitan saith thus Whence is it that you Donatists contend to vsurp vnto you the keies of the Kingdome and that you wage battaile against the chaire of Peter presumptuously and with sacrilâ—gious audacity If they vvaged battaile against
the Church who then but miscreants and Heretikes can take it for a name of curse reproch and shame Is it not vntil this day set downe in the Apostles creed as the honourable title and epithite of the true Church I beleeue the holy Catholike Church Must he then not be rather an Apostata then a scholler of the Apostles â—hat blusheth not to auouch the very name Catholike to be the proper badge of Apostataes and Heretikes which the Apostles asscribe and appropriate vnto true Christianity If any proude and false fellowes doe vsurpe that name and challenge it to themselues wrongfully as many did euen in S. Augustines time when M. Abbot confesseth it to haue beene in greatest estimation let such vsurping companions be rebuked sharply and conuicted of their insolent and audatious folly but the name Catholike which the Apostles thought vvorthy and fit to be placed in the articles of our creede and principles of our religion must alwaies remaine and be among true Christians a name very glorious and desireable We therefore say with S. Augustine We receiue the holy Ghost if we loue the Church Tract 32. in Iohannem Lib. 1. cont GaudeÌ„t c. 33. if we be joined together by charity if we rejoice in the Catholike name and faith And they that doe not joy in that name but mocke at it doe blaspheme as the same most holy Authour intimateth The name Iewe being taken in the Apostles sence for one of what nation soeuer that fulfilleth the justice of the law neuer was nor neuer shal be a name of reproch so that M. Abbot is driuen to hoppe from one sence of that name to another to make it appliable to his purpose But and it please you the Protestants haue the kernel of the name Catholike and we but the shel Why doe they then so bitterly inueigh against it vvhy are they not more willing to extol and magnifie that renowmed title being of such ancient Nobility twenty pound to a peny that vvhat face soeuer he set on it yet in his hart he maruailously feareth the contrary himselfe If that faith and religion only be Catholike vniuersal as he acknowledgeth that hath euer beene and is also spread ouer al the world and shal continue to the worldes end then surely their religion cannot be Catholike euen by the vniforme confession of themselues vvho generally acknowledge that for nine hundred yeares together the Papacy did so domineer al the world ouer that not a man of their religion vvas to be found in any corner of the vvorld that durst peepe out his head to contradict it Could there be any Church of theirs then when there was not one Pastour and flocke of their religion though neuer so smal in any one country and euen now vvhen their Gospel is at the hottest hath it spread it selfe al the world ouer is it receiued in Italy Spaine Greece Afrike or Asia or carried into the Indians nothing lesse They cannot then cal themselues Catholikes after the sincere and ancient acceptation of that name which is as himselfe hath often repeted out of S. Augustine Quia communicant Ecclesiae toto orbe diffusae Because they communicate in fellowship of faith with the Church spread ouer al the world They must therefore notwithstanding M. Abbots vaine bragges be content with the shel and leaue the kernel to vs who doe embrace the same faith that is dilated al countries ouer yea they must be contented to walke in the foote-steps of their fore-fathers the Donatists euen according to M. Abbots explication and flie from the vniuersality of faith and communion of the Church spread al the world ouer vnto the perfection of their doctrine which is neuerthelesse more absurd and further from the true signification of the word Catholike then the Donatists shift was of fulnesse of sacraments and obseruation of al Gods commandements as hath beene already declared But let vs heare how clearely and substantially he wil at length proue their Church to be Catholike ROBERT ABBOT NOw as of this Catholike Church from the beginning to the end there is as appeareth in the vvordes cited by M. Bishop but Ephes 4. vers 4. One body euen as one Lord one God and Father of al so is there also but one spirit one hope one faith one baptisme one spiritual meate and drinke one religion Let vs then looke out those that haue beene before vs and consider Abel Noë Abraham Isaac Iacob and the rest of the Patriarkes and Fathers Let vs looke to Moises and the Prophets and the whole generation of the righteous and faithful of the old Testament and see what their faith was what was their religion and seruice of God vndoubtedly we find not a Papist among them we finde no shadow of that which they now obtrude and thrust vpon vs vnder the name of Catholike religion They did not worship Idols and Images they did not coÌ„ming after pray to Saints that were dead before them they vsed no inuocation of Angels they knew no Merits nor vvorkes of supererogation They vowed no vowes of Monkery they made no pilgrimage to Reliques and dead mens bones they knew no shrift nor absolution or any of that riffe-raffe-stuffe vvherein the substance of Catholike religion is now imagined to consist But what they did the same doe we as they worshipped God so sauing ceremonial obseruances vve also worship him as they beleeued so by the same spirit of faith vve also beleeue as they praied so vvith the same vvordes we also pray according to the approued example of their life we also teach men to liue therefore no Popery but our religion is the Catholike religion because it is that vvhich the Catholike Church hath practised from the beginning of the world and Popish religion not so The same faith and religion which they followed and no other our Sauiour Christ at his coÌ„ming further confirmed and only stripping it of those tipes and shadowes vvherewith it pleased God for the time to cloth it commending the same to his Apostles simply and nakedly to be preached to the nations They did so They added nothing of their owne they preached only the Gospel promised before by the Tertul. de Praescript Rom. 1. Prophets in the holy Scriptures saying no other thinges Act. 26. v. 12. Lib. 3. cap. 1. then those which the Prophets and Moises did say should come The Gospel which they first preached afterwardes by the wil God as Ireneus saith they deliuered to vs in writing to be the pillar and foundation of our faith Thus then vvhat Christ deliuered the Apostles preached vvhat the Apostles preached they wrote vvhat they vvrote we receiue and beleeue De praescript and beleeuing this as Tertullian saith we desire to beleeue no more because we first beleeue that there is nothing else for vs to beleeue And therefore as S. Augustine saith if any man August cont literas Petili lib. 3. cap. 6. nay if an Angel from
heauen shal preach vnto vs any thing concerning Christ or concerning his Church or concerning any thing pertaining to our faith and life but what we haue receiued in the Scriptures of the law and Gospel accursed be he Our faith therefore because it is that which the Apostles committed to writing is the Apostolike faith and our Church ex consanguinitate doctrinae by consanguinity and agreement of doctrine is proued to be an Apostolical Church c. of this Apostolical Church his Majesty is the supreme gouernour vnder Christ As for M. Bishops religion it cannot be the Catholike religion because it is not that vvhich the Catholike Church that is the faithful of al ages haue practised His faith is not the Apostolike faith because it is not that vvhich the Apostles left in writing They make no mention of the Pope of his Supremacy of his Pardons of worshipping of Images inuocation of Saints Pilgrimages and a thousand such trumperies WILLIAM BISHOP WE agree in this that there is but one faith one baptisme one spiritual foode and one religion in the Catholike Church but M. Abbot is fouly ouer-seene about the time when the true Church beganne first to be called Catholike which was not before Christs time but afterwardes according to that alleaged out of Pacianus an ancient authour who writeth of the name Catholike saying Christian is my name Pacian epist ad Simphor de nomine Catholico Catholike is my surname For when among Christians some beganne to teach false doctrine and to draw others after them into sects they that remained sound did cleaue fast vnto the whole body of the Church were intituled Catholikes to distinguish them from Heretikes that did not joine vvith the vniuersal corps of Christians in faith and religion which M. Abbot before did in plaine wordes confesse see his text afore vvhere he beginneth to argue of the word Catholike And the reason is most perspicuous why the Iewes and their religion could not be called Catholike though it vvere right and according to the wil of God for that time because Catholike signifieth that which is spread al the world ouer and receiued of al nations so was not the law of Moises and the manner of seruing God therein prescribed but vvas peculiar vnto the children of Israel and as it were confined within the limits of one land and country vvherefore it could not be called Catholike and vniuersal And M. Abbot was greatly deceiued or else goeth about to deceiue others when for proofe of communicating with the Catholike Church he recoileth back vnto the beginning of the vvorld Why did he not rather shew that their new Gospel flourished in al countries assoone as the Christian faith vvas planted and that it hath continued in al ages since the Apostles daies vntil our time that had beene to haue spoken directly to the purpose which he seldome vseth But he saw that to be a worke to hard for Hercules and therefore to delude his reader and to lead him from the matter he flieth vp to the old farne-daies of Abel Noē Abraham c. as though they had reuealed vnto them al those particular points of faith which Christ taught his Apostles and the same religion and manner of vvorshipping God that we Christians haue which is flatly opposite to the doctrine of S. Paul who testifieth Ephes 3. v. 4. That the mistery of Christ vnto other generations was not knowne vnto the Sonnes of men as now it is reuealed vnto his holy Apostles and Prophets in the spirit Those ancient Patriarkes as men Hebr. 11. vers 13. looking a farre off at the daies of Christ the light of the vvorld did not discouer so distinctly the misteries of the Christian faith as the Apostles vvho vvere Iob. 6. v. 45. taught by his owne mouth and made to know Ioh. 15. v. 15. al his Fathers secretes and had ¶ * Rom. 8. vers 23. the first fruits of the spirit in best sort to vnderstand them and carry them away To be short our Sauiour hath decided this question and saith in expresse wordes Math. 13. vers 17. Many Prophets and just men haue desired to see the thinges that you see and haue not seene them and to beare the thinges that you heare and haue not heard them Obserue then how absurdly M. Abbot behaueth himselfe in this matter First he vseth tergiuersation in leaping so farre backe from the point of the question seeking communion with the Catholike Church some thousandes of yeares before there vvas any Church Catholike Secondly in auouching the ancient founders of the first world to haue beleeued clearely and particularly al the articles of faith that vve beleeue or else why doth he conclude that the Roman faith is not Catholike because in that old and hoare-headed world some branches of their faith were not sprong vp and of ful growth They did not saith he worship Idols and Images they did not pray to Saints c. But good Sir did they beleeue that al their children vvere to be baptised and that al persons of riper yeares among them were to receiue the holy Sacrament of Christes body yea can M. Abbot demonstrate that they had perfect faith of the most holy and blessed Trinity beleeuing distinctly in three persons and one God or that the redeemer of the world Christ Iesus was to be perfect God and perfect man the nature of man in him subsisting vvithout the proper person of man in the second person of the Trinity which are the most high misteries of our Christian faith I am not ignorant that albeit those ancient Patriarkes and Prophets had not cleare and distinct knowledge of many articles vvhich vve are bound to beleeue yet they beleeued some few of them in particular and had a certaine confuse and darke conceit by figures and tipes of most of the rest Touching these very points vvhereof M. Abbot would haue them vvholy ignorant if his bare vvord without any manner of proof were so powerful I affirme that they held the most of them vvhich I wil not stand here to proue at large for that were Protestant-like to runne from one question to another without order but I wil only giue a touch to euery one of his instances referring the reader for more ful satisfaction to the proper place of those head controuersies First no Catholike euer taught any man to worship Idols let that then passe as a Protestant slander but that Images are to be placed in Churches the examples recorded in the old Testament of hauing them both in their a Exod. 25. vers 18. Tabernacle and in the b 3. Reg. 6. vers 23. Temple of Salomon this sentence of the Psalmist c Psalm 98. vers 5. Adore his foote-stoole and many such like places and resemblances doe argue very strongly that Images are to be worshipped Secondly inuocation of Angels is most plainly practised by the holy Patriarke Iacob the Father of al
Soueraigne power that the high Priest of the old testament had ouer al the rest Deuter. 17. To determine and end al doubts and controuersies arising about any hard point of the law As for consecrating of Priests and hallowing of Churches and Altars vvith al vestiments and ornaments thereunto appertaining and for the seueral feasts and fasts there is so great resemblance betweene them and vs that Protestants commonly cry out against vs for the ouer-great affinity that is betwixt the old law and our religion But as they are to be reproued of indiscreet zeale against the rites of Moises law vvhich were of God and good for the time and most of them figures and tipes of the law of grace according to that of the Apostle 1. Cor. 10. Al thinges chanced to them in figure and were written for our correction and instruction so on the other side some strange defluxion and distillation of corrupt humours maruailously darkned M. Abbots soare-eies that he could not discerne nor finde in the whole law of Moises any one shadow of that vvhich vve now practise May not these worthy wordes which S. Paul pronounced of the blinded Iewes in his time be verified of him 2. Cor. 4. Their sences were dulled vntil this day when Moises is read a veile is put vpon their hart that is they reading and hearing the law of Moises doe no more vnderstand it then doth a man hoodded or that hath a veile before his eies see what is before him or else M. Abbot reading the old Testament could not choose but haue seene much of our religion and many articles of our faith there recorded And albeit we teach most misteries of our faith to haue beene in the law of Moises prefigured and fore-told yet is it very absurd to say as M. Abbot doth that we beleeue no more articles of faith then they did for we were by the Sonne of God our blessed Sauiour giuen to vnderstand many high points of beleefe vvhich vvere not reuealed vnto them as hath beene before declared And much more reprochful is it to hold as he doth That we worship God after the same manner as they did for then should vve sacrifice to him beefes muttons calues and lambes and our sacrificers should be of Aarons issue and order and vve al circumcised I omit al their ceremonies because M. Abbot excepteth them And if the Protestants doe altogether pray as they did and in the same tearmes as M. Abbot affirmeth them to doe they sometimes then doe pray vnto God to Exod. 32. vers 13. remember Abraham Isaac and Iacob and for their sakes to take mercy on them for to that effect in those tearmes praied the Prophet Moises and that according vnto those Patriarkes Genes 48. vers 16. expresse order and commandement Whereunto if it please the Protestants to joine that other praier of the Psalmist ¶ * Psal 131. Remember ô Lord Dauid and al his mildnesse let them tel me whither this smal praier with which they finde so great fault Tu per Thomae sanguinem c. Thou ô Lord for that blouds sake which thy seruant shedde in defence of thy holy Church take compassion vpon vs be not vvarranted for good by example of the like recorded in the old Testament For if they then did desire God to remember the excellent vertues of his seruants and for their sakes to shew mercy to others vvhy may not we doe the same now vvhy may we not as wel beseech God to remember the constant fortitude of S. Thomas as they did the mildnesse of Dauid I vvil not dwel vpon these impertinent and loose follies which al that be not babes may of them selues easily discry but doe out of the premises inferre first that no religion was to be called Catholike before the Gospel of Christ vvas preached or to be preached to al nations and therefore the law of Moises being peculiar to one people and country could not be called Catholike secondly that the Roman faith and religion is very conformable to that of the Patriarkes and Prophets as the verity is to the figure vvhence it followeth that the Protestants new deuises hold no due correspondence with them I haue already confuted this his assertion That Christ at his comming confirmed the faith and religion of the Iewes without any additions of his owne and commended it simply and nakedly only stripping it of types and shadowes to be preached to al nations And here I adde that then Christians may yet haue many vviues together as the Iewes had or giue their wiues vpon any displeasure a lâ—bel of diuorse for these vvere no shadowes nor ceremonies And briefly it should follow thereof that al that part of their law that doth belong to justice and judgement stands stil in ful force and vertue among vs Christians vvhich is most opposite to the determination of the Apostles in the first Councel holden at Hierusalem where it was plainly decided that Act. 15. vers 28. we Christians were not bound to keepe the old law Againe if the Apostles vvere simply and nakedly to preach vnto the Gentiles the law of Moises stript of tipes and shadowes why were they coÌ„manded to preach vnto them the Sacrament of baptisme or of our Lords supper vvhich are no vvhere commanded in the law of Moises Wel let this then passe as a most notorious and grosse ouersight But the Apostles saith he added nothing of their owne vvhich is very false for many thinges vvere left by our Sauiour to their disposition vvhereupon S. Paul saith 1. Cor. 11. vers 34. Caetera cùm venero disponain I wil dispose of the rest when I come and vvas further bold to say 1. Cor. 7. vers 12. Haec dico ego non Dominus For the rest I say not our Lord. M. Abbot goes on belying the Apostle saying ¶ * Rom. 12. and they preached only the Gospel promised before by the Prophets where he corrupteth the Text by adding the word only and vveaueth into that Text to the Romans these wordes out of the Acts of the Apostles Act. 26. vers 22. saying none other thinges then those which the Prophets and Moises did say should come where he both mangleth the Text and also breaks off in the middest of a sentence that it might seeme appliable to al points of the Apostles preachings vvhich the Apostle applieth only to Christs death and resurrection and the preaching and carrying of light vnto the Gentiles It is a peece of strange alchumy to distil out of these wordes of the Apostle that they preached nothing but the same faith and religion vvhich the Iewes embraced S. Paul saith that be had preached nothing of Christs death and resurrection and that he was the light of the Gentiles but that vvhich the Prophets did speake should come to passe M. Abbot of his owne head enlargeth this his speech to al other points of our faith Againe al is besides the
we are justified not by faith alone but also by good workes That in extremity of sicknesse we must cal for the Priest to anoile vs with holy Oile That we must confesse our sinnes not to God alone but also vnto men these and diuers such like heades of our Catholike faith formally set downe in holy Scripture the Protestants wil not beleeue though they be written in Gods vvord neuer so expresly but doe ransacke al the corners of their wits to deuise some odde shift or other how to flie from the euidence of them Whereupon I conclude that they doe not receiue al the written word though they professe neuer so much to allow of al the bookes of Canonical Scripture Lib. 2. de Trinitate ad Const For the written word of God consisteth not in the reading but in the vnderstaÌ„ding as S. Hierome testifieth that is it doth not consist in the bare letter of it but in the letter and true sence and meaning joined togither the letter being as the body of Scripture and the right vnderstanding of it the soule spirit and life thereof he therefore that taketh not the written word in the true sence but swarneth from the sincere interpretation of it cannot be truly said to receiue the written word as a good Christian ought to doe Seing then that the Protestants and al other sectaries doe not receiue the holy Scriptures according vnto the most ancient and best learned Doctors exposition they may most justly be denied to receiue the sacred vvritten word of God at al though they seeme neuer so much to approue al the Bookes Verses and Letters of it vvhich is plainly proued by S. Hierome vpon the first Chapter to the Galathians Now to draw towardes the end of this clause not only neuer a one of M. Abbots assertions whereby he went about to proue them selues and their Church to be Catholike is true as hath beene shewed before but ouer and besides his very conclusion conuinceth himselfe euen by the verdict of himselfe to fal into the foule fault and errour of the Donatists Our faith saith he because it is that which the Apostles committed to writing is the Apostolike faith and our Church by consanguinity and agreement of doctrine is proue to be an Apostolical Church c. and is the only true Catholike Church c. see you not how he is come at length to proue their Church to be Catholike Page 16. Line 5. Ex perfectione doctrinae By perfectnesse of their doctrine vvhich was as he himselfe in this very assertion noted a plaine Donatistical tricke reproued by S. Augustine whom in that point he then approued What doating folly is this in the same short discourse so to forget himselfe as to take that for a sound proofe which he himselfe had before confuted as heretical we like wel of Tertullians obseruation That our faith ought to haue consanguinity and perfect agreement with the Apostles doctrine but that is not the question at this time but vvhether our doctrine or the Protestant be truly called Catholike that is whether of them hath beene receiued and beleeued in al nations ouer the world that is to be proued in this place M. Abbot if he had meant to deale plainly and soundly should not haue gone so about the bush and haue fetched such vvide and vvilde windlesses from old father Abrahams daies but should haue demonstrated by good testimony of the Ecclesiastical Histories or of ancient Fathers vvho were in the pure times of the Church the most Godly and approued Pastours thereof that the ProtestaÌ„ts religion had flourished since the Apostles daies ouer al Europe Afrike and Asia or at least had beene visibly extant in some one country or other naming some certaine Churches in particular which had held in al points their faith and religion vvhich he seing impossible for any man to doe fel into that extrauagant and rouing discourse which you haue heard concluding without any premises sauing his owne bare word that in the written word There is no mention made of the Pope or his Supremacy nor of his Pardons c. Belike there is no mention made of S. Peter nor aught said of his singular prerogatiues It hath not peraduenture That whatsoeuer be should loose on earth should be loosed in heauen The other points were touched before and shal be shortly againe But I would in the meane season be glad to heare where the written word teacheth vs that Kinges and temporal Magistrates are ordained by Christ to be vnder him supreme Gouernours of Ecclesiastical affaires because M. Abbot made choice of this head-article of theirs for an instance that the written word was plaine on their â—ide he should therefore at least haue pointed at some one text or other in the new Testament where it is registred that Princes are supreme gouernours of the Church Nay are temporal Magistrates any Ecclesiastical persons at al or can one that is no member of the Ecclesiastical body be head of al the rest of the Ecclesiastical members or is the state Secular higher and more worthy then the Ecclesiastical and therefore meete to rule ouer it though they be not of it to say so is to preferre the body before the soule nature before grace earth before heauen or is it meete and decent that the lesse worthy-member should haue the supreme command ouer the more honourable vvhere the Christian vvorld is turned topsy-turuy that may be thought meete and expedient but in other places that wil not be admitted for currant vvhich in it selfe is so disorderly and inconuenient without it had better warrant in the word of God then that new position of theirs hath ROBERT ABBOT NOw vvhereas he alleageth that al his Majesties most roial Progenitours haue liued and died in that vvhich he calleth the Catholike and Apostolike faith Ambros lib. 5. epist. he plaieth the part of Symmachus the Pagan sophister who by like argument vvould haue perswaded Valentinian the Emperour to restore their Heathenish Idolatry and abhominations We are to follow our Fathers saith he who with happinesse and felicity followed their Fathers Aug. psal 54. Thus men haue hardned themselues in their heresies saying What my parents were before me the same wil I be But his Majesty wel knoweth that in matter of religion the example of parents is no band to the children L. 2. epist 3. but the trial thereof is to returne to the roote and original of the Lordes tradition as Ciprian speaketh not regarding what any before vs hath thought fit to be done but what Christ hath done who is before al. It is not vnknowne to his Majesty that there should be a time when Apocal. 17. vers 13. the Kinges of the earth shal giue their power and kingdome to the beast vntil the word of God be fulfilled and with the whoore sitting vpon many waters Vers 14. should bende themselues to fight against the Lambe Wherein if any of his Progenitours
censured a base and beggarly vassal for shewing my selfe sorrowful for my Princes misfortune what stile deserues he for such outragious reproches bealched forth against the highest Bishop of Christes Church Now whereas M. Abbot boldly auerreth That thereby his Majesty hath learned to cast off the yoke of bondage by which other Princes are enthralled to a beast sauing his reuerence I answere that other Kinges nourished in countries accounted as ciuil to say the least as Scotland vvil not change that their bondage vvith his Majesties supposed liberty and freedome because they hold it farre better to enjoy the direction and assistance of the Bishop of Rome for the vniforme and peacible gouernement of their Clergy according vnto the ancient Canons of the Church then either to take it into their owne handes or to cōmit it to the discretion of Consistory Ministers or to any other sort of late deuised Ecclesiastical plat-formes Godly wise and vnderstanding Kings vvil no doubt consider that some who perswade them to cast off such yokes are very false Parasites no sound and true harted subjects because it is said of Kinges out of il counsel in the second Psalme Let vs breake their bandes and let vs cast from vs their yoke vvhereas contrariwise in the same place the spirit of God speakes thus to Princes Apprehendite disciplinam Receiue discipline that is obserue al good orders and take correction least that our Lord waxe angry with you and then you perish from the right way And if they themselues should so much forget their duty to God and respect to his holy Church as to seeke the vtter ruine and subuersion of it yet very reason teacheth them that it is farre more safe orderly and expedient that there should be one only supreme Pastour assisted with the graue counsel of some of the wiser sort of euery Christian country as the Popes holinesse is with the counsel of his most graue wise and learned Cardinals to controule and correct them then to be left to the mercy of the Ministers of euery country and to the tumultuous reformation of the rash and giddy multitude who by the cōmon consent of the best learned Protestants must take their Prince in hand and belabour him if he goe about to oppresse the Gospel as hath beene before proued To proceede is it not a rare pranke of a parasite to auouch that an ancient student in diuinity must needes stand dumbe like an Asse before his Majesty and not be able to answere him one word in his owne profession but the Church the Church the Fathers the Fathers I vvish hartily that his excellent Majesty would match me with no meaner a man then Doctor Abbot he that professeth himselfe able to stoppe al mens mouthes to alleage not only the Church and the Fathers but the Scripture the Scripture and by his Highnesse authentike judgement approue him to haue the better cause that can pertinently cite most plaine texts of Scripture for their religion I make no doubt but the Protestant part notwithstāding their common craking of the vvord of God should goe to the ground Marry vvhen vve auouch holy Scripture for vs in as expresse tearmes as can be deuised they wil not yeeld but deuise most extrauagant glosses to fly from the euident testimony of Gods most holy word whereupon we are compelled to make recourse vnto the definition of the Church of God Iob. 16. v. 13. Which is guided by the spirit of God vnto al truth and vnto the learned commentaries of the most ancient holy and juditious Fathers vvho vvere for their times appointed by the holy Ghost to rule and instruct the same his Church that seing how they vnderstood the holy Scriptures vve may by their euen and vnpartial line and square direct our judgement in the true sence of holy Scripture vvhich is the principal cause why we rely so much vpon the Church and Fathers and for vvhich he so scornefully vpbraideth vs vvith the Church the Church the Fathers the Fathers And here to returne one of M. Abbots sharpe wordes vpon himselfe vvhat a dissembling hipocrite was he to say that when al was done we could not make any thing good by either Church or Fathers Sect. 9. 10. when as he himself doth plainly confesse that S. Augustine S. Hierome Epiphanius and diuers other Fathers be flat for vs and is driuen roundly to deny their authority and to preferre the opinions of condemned Heretikes Iouinian Vigilantius and Aërius before these most renowmed Doctors and Pastors As grosse and palpable an vntruth is that vvhich followeth That the Catholikes be not heauily persecuted by the state whereas al their goodes and chattels be vvholy confiscate and two partes of their landes their bodies at pleasure subject to prison there to lie without baile or mainprise their persons daily in danger of death for receiuing or any vvay maintaining their Pastours to omit al other their oppressions which be almost innumerable but belike because al Catholikes be not by most cruel death suddainly made away this Minister of bloud accounteth their persecution light and easie And vvhereas he so enlargeth the short and smal persecution of their bretheren I doe offer to joine with him in this issue that more Catholike Priests Religious men and others haue beene tormented murthered and most despitefully slaine by men of their religion within the compasse of two Realmes France and England during the only time of Queene Elizabeth her raigne then were of Protestants and men of al other Sects for a thousand yeares before in those countries yea take to them also al Spaine and Italy The Donatists and al other sectaries doe suffer persecution as S. Augustine truly saith for their obstinate folly vvhat of that ergo whosoeuer suffereth persecution for his religion is a foole what a foolish reason in this then were the Apostles and al the best Christians fooles But M. Abbot saith We be children and can yeeld no reason for that we suffer but what ignorance affordeth vs to wit we must cleaue to the Church and follow our fore-fathers Surely that were a foule fault that we as children should obey our Mother the holy Church and follow the faith and religion of our fore-fathers But first it is most palpably false that we can yeeld no other reason for our religion as our bookes euidently doe conuince Then if we had no other reason but that one it alone were sufficient for it is an article of our Creede to beleeue the Church and S. Paul assureth vs 1. Tim. 3. vers 15. That the Church is the pillar and ground of truth vvhereupon this is receiued as a principle of faith among the ancient Fathers allowed euen by Protestants themselues That he that hath not the Church to his Mother shal neuer haue God to his Father he therefore that cleaueth fast vnto the firme pillar of the Church and followeth her precepts as of a most faithful Mother can neuer goe astray
Finally he doth absurdly apply S. Augustines wordes spoken against the Donatists to vs they vvil much better fit the Protestants vvho imitate their errours in most points as I haue proued already who also may be more aptly resembled to children that stand in neede of a rodde because their religion is euery vvay childish as being young and of late borne phantastical and without any sound ground of mature judgement as changeable also as children according to the diuers humour of the state and time SECT 4. W. BISHOP VERY many vrgent and forcible reasons might be produced in fauour and defence of the Catholike Roman religion whereof diuers haue beene already in most learned Treatises tendered to your Majesty wherefore I wil only touch three two chosen out of the subject of this booke the third selected from a sentence of your Majesty recorded in the aforesaid conference And because that argument is as most sensible so best assured which proceedeth from a principle either euident in it selfe or else granted and confessed to be true my first proofe shal be grounded vpon that your Highnesse resolute and constant opinion recorded in the said conference Page 75. to wit That no Church ought to separate it selfe further from the Church of Rome either in doctrine or ceremony then shee hath departed from her selfe when shee was in her most flourishing and best estate from whence I deduce this reason The principal pillars of the Roman Church in her most flourishing estate taught in al points of religion the same doctrine that shee nâ—w holdeth and teacheth and in expresse tearmes condemneth for errour and heresie most of the articles which the Protestants esteeme as chiefe partes of their reformed Gospel therefore if your Majesty wil resolutely embrace and constantly defend that doctrine which the Roman Church maintained in her most flourishing estate you must forsake the Protestant and take the Catholike into your Princely and Roial protection ROBERT ABBOT YOV talke M. Bishop of many vrgent and forcible reasons but you talke as your fellowes doe like mount-bankes and juglers You haue much prating and many wordes but your reasons vvhen they are duly examined are as light as feathers before the vvinde neither vvould they seeme other to your owne followers but that you bewitch them with this principle that they must read nothing written on our part for answere to them we see your vrgent and forcible reasons in this booke vvhich you tel vs is the marrow and pith of many volumes I doubt not but by that time I haue examined the same your owne pupils and schollers if they reade the answere wil account you a meere seducer a cosener and abuser of them and wil detest you accordingly But to beginne withal you offer three reasons to his Majesty in this your Epistle for the justifying of your Romish religion for the impeaching of ours Two chosen out of the subject of this booke the third selected from a sentence of his Majesty Now if these reasons proue reasonlesse then your reason M. Bishop should haue taught you more manners and duty then thus to trouble his Majesty vvith your reasonlesse reasons To examine them in order the first reason is grounded vpon a principle most judiciously soundly affirmed by his Majesty That no Church ought further to seperate it selfe from the Church of Rome in doctrine or ceremony then shee hath departed from her selfe when shee was in her flourishing best estate and which is subtilly left out by M. Bishop from Christ her Lord and head For seeing it cannot be denied that the Church of Rome vvas once sound and vpright in faith the Apostle bearing witnesse Rom. 1. That their faith was published throughout the world it must needes follow that vvhat shee hath not since that time altered is stil vpright and sound and therefore to be embraced Now from thence M. Bishop argueth thus The principal pillars of the Church of Rome in her most flourishing estate taught in al points the same doctrine that shee now teacheth and in expresse tearmes did condemne of heresie most of the articles of our religion ergo c. but soft and faire M. Bishop there is no hast c. WILLIAM BISHOP TRVE there is no hast indeede for M. Abbot comes faire and soft to the matter What a number of idle vaunting wordes and vaine repetitions be here as though any juditious man vvere to be perswaded by bare wordes and voluntary supposals before he see any proofe S ir I doubt not but the indifferent reader vvil suspend his judgement and deeme nere the worse of my vvriting for your empty censure til he see good reason to the contrary Sure I am that some Catholikes hauing read your booke doe like much the better of mine and esteeme yours a very fond peece of worke ful of babble lies and foule wordes void of found proofes and farre from common ciuility Who are more circumspect then you your selues to keepe your followers from reading our bookes vvho first imprison any that wil helpe to print them then set fines on al their heades that shal keepe them and make very diligent search after them so that al these common wordes may most truly be returned vpon your selfe Mutato nomine de te narratur fabula You note that I subtilly left out of his Majesties speech from Christ her Lord and head but shew no cause why and no maruaile for none indeede can be shewed they are needlesse wordes as being comprehended in the former For if the Church of Rome departed not from her selfe vvhen shee was in her most flourishing and best estate shee cannot depart from Christ her Lord and head vvherefore to note this for a subtle tricke giueth the reader cause to note you for a wrangler and one that is very captious where no cause is offered M. Abbot comes at length to my first reason and goeth about to disproue it thus ROBERT ABBOT WE hope you wil not deny but the Apostle S. Paul was one principal pillar of the Church of Rome vvho there shed his bloud He vvrote an Epistle to that Church vvhen the faith thereof was most renowmed throughout the world He vvrote at large comprehending therein as * Theodor. in praefat epist Pat. li. Theodoret saith doctrine of al sortes or al kinde of doctrine Et accuratam copiosamue dogmatum pertractationem An exact and plentiful handling of al points thereof Now in al that Epistle what doth he say either for you or against vs nay what doth he not say for vs against you he condemneth the Rom. 1. v. 23. changing the glory of the incorruptible God into the similitude of the Image of a corruptible man and worshipping the creature in steede of the creatour It is for vs against you for you by your schoole-trickes doubt not to teach men by the Image of a man to worship God and by religious deuotion of praiers and offerings to worship Saints and Saints Images
in steede of God WILLIAM BISHOP WHAT a worthy graue Preface he vseth to assure men that vve wil not deny S. Paul nor his Epistle to the Romans vvhich neuer were called in doubt by any man But good S ir vvhiles you muse and busie your head so much vpon bables you forget or wilfully mistake the very point of the question Was the Church of Rome at her most flourishing estate when S. Paul wrote that Epistle to the Romans was her faith then most renowmed ouer al the world as you write nothing lesse for not the tenne thousand part of that most populous Citty was then conuerted to the faith and they that had receiued the Christian faith were very nouices in it and stoode in great neede of the Apostles diuine instructions Any reasonable man would rather judge that the Church of Rome then came first to her most flourishing estate when Idolatry and al kind of superstition was put to silence and banished out of her vvhen the Christian religion was publikly preached countenanced by the Emperours authority which was not before the raigne of Constantine the great our most glorious country-man vvherefore M. Abbots first fault is that he shooteth farre vvide from the marke vvhich he should haue aimed at principally The second is more nice yet in one that would seeme so acute not to be excused It is that he taketh an Epistle written to the Romans for their instruction and correction as if it were a declaration and profession of their faith vvhen as al men know such a letter might containe many thinges vvhich they had not heard off before Further yet that you may see how nothing can passe his fingers vvithout some legerdemaine marke how he englisheth Theodorets wordes Dogmatum pertractationem The handling of opinions is by him translated al points of doctrine vvhereas it rather signifieth some then al opinions or lessons But I wil let these ouer-sights passe as flea-bitings and follow him whither he pleaseth to wāder that euery man may see when he is permitted to say what he liketh best that in truth he can alleage out of S. Paul nothing of moment against the Catholike faith S. Paul saith he is wholy against you and for vs. Quickly said but wil not be so soone proued First he condemneth the worshipping of Saints and Saints Images in that he reproueth the Heathens for changing the glory of the incorruptible God into the similitude of the Image of a corruptible man O noble disputer and wel worthy the whippe because we may not make false Gods or giue the glory of God vnto Idols may vve not therefore yeeld vnto Saints their due vvorship might not S. Paul whiles he liued as al other most Godly men be reuerenced and vvorshipped for their most excellent spiritual and religions vertues with a kinde of holy and religious respect euen as Knights and Lordes and other worldly men are vvorshipped and honoured for their temporal callings and endowments with temporal worship vvithout robbing God of his honour Is the Lord or Master dishonoured and spoiled of his due reuerence and respect if his seruants for his sake be much made off and respected yet with such due regard only as is meete for their degree This is so childish and palpable that if the Protestants were not resolued to sticke obstinately to their errours how grosse soeuer they be they vvould for very shame not once more name it To the next ROBERT ABBOT PAVL saith and we say the same that Ibid. vers 17. the righteousnesse of God is from faith to faith you say otherwise that it is from faith to workes that faith is but the entrance to workes and that in workes the righteousnesse of God doth properly consist WILLIAM BISHOP THE sentence of S. Paul is mangled his wordes are for the justice or righteousnesse of God is reuealed therein in the Gospel by faith into faith which are obscure and subject to diuers expositions The most common is that Christ the justice of God is reuealed in the Gospel by conferring the faith of them that liued before the Gospel vvith their faith that liued vnder it the faith of them who liue in the Gospel giuing great light for the cleerer vnderstanding of such thinges as were taught of Christmore darkely in the law and Prophets This being the literal sence of this place what is here for mans justification by only faith where only mention is made of Gods justice and not one vvord of the imputation of it to man but of the reuelation of it in the Gospel What a foule mistaking is this alas his pouerty of spirit and want of good armour compelleth him to lay hand on any vveapons how simple and weake soeuer In the next verse it is plainly shewed that God did grieuously punish al them vvho liued wickedly notwithstanding they held the right faith for saith S. Paul Rom. 1. v. 18. the wrath of God from heauen is reuealed vpon al impiety and vnrighteousnesse of those men that retaine or hold the truth of God in injustice Whence it followeth first that men may haue a true faith without good workes for they held the truth of God being themselues wicked Secondly that the same faith would not auaile them aught nor saue them from the just wrath of God if it were not quickned by good workes ROBERT ABBOT THE Apostle in expresse termes affirmeth Rom. 4. v. 6. imputation of righteousnesse vvithout vvorkes We doe the same but you professedly dispute against it WILLIAM BISHOP WE hold with the Apostle that vvorkes be not the cause of the first justification whereof he there treateth nor to deserue it though inspired with Gods grace they doe prepare vs and make vs fit to receiue the gift of justification neither doe the Protestants wholy exclude workes from this justification vvhen they doe require true repentance which consisteth of many good workes as necessary thereto We hold that justice is increased by good workes which we cal the second justification against which the Apostle speaketh not a vvord but doth confirme it vvhen he saith in the same Epistle Rom. 2. v. 13. Not the hearers of the law are just with God but the doers of the law shal be justified Marke how by doing of the law which is by doing good workes men are justified with God and not only declared just before men as the Protestants glose the matter Now touching See the place Rom. 4. v. 6. imputation of righteousnesse the Apostle speaketh not like a Protestant of the outward imputation of Christs justice to vs but of inherent justice to wit of faith vvhich worketh by charity which are qualities Rom. 6. powred into our harts by the holy Ghost so that there is only a bare sound of wordes for the Protestants the true substance of the Text making wholy for the Catholikes ROBERT ABBOT PAVL teacheth that Rom. 6. v. 23. Page 98. eternal life is the gift of God through IESVS
proofes for the Princes supremacy the Emperours some times called general Councels ergo they were supreme gouernors in causes Ecclesiastical a doubty argument as you may perceiue by the like A Lord calleth for his tenants being carpenters to build him a house ergo that Lord is the chiefest carpenter in the country If that Lord be not taken for supreme judge in the carpenters occupation though he had ful power to assemble the carpenters together vvhy shal the Emperour be esteemed chiefe gouernour in Ecclesiastical causes for that he hath authority to cal Ecclesiastical persons together Againe al men know that Ecclesiastical persons are in al temporal causes subject vnto temporal Princes who therefore may command them to meete together to compose contentions risen about spiritual causes vvhereby the temporal peace of his country is also much hindred and this may be wel done vvithout any pretence vnto soueraignity ouer them in spiritual matters so that if it were graunted that the Emperour had authority to cal general Councels yet it vvould not follow thereof that he were supreme head in Ecclesiastical causes much lesse can he be taken for supreme gouernour because the Popes gaue vnto the Emperours the cōmon and vsual wordes of courtesie as M. Abbot afterward very childishly reasoneth But let vs come to the ground-worke of the question I affirme then that though Emperour or King for the temporal command he hath ouer his spiritual subjects may cal them together vvhen there is just cause yet the soueraigne summoning of al Bishops Ecclesiastical persons to a general Councel doth not properly or principally belong to the Emperours but vnto the chiefe Pastour among them for very reason teacheth euery judicious man by induction through al societies it is most manifest that the chiefest member of any corporation or assotiation hath by instinct of nature that priuiledge of calling together the rest of that cōpany and corporation wherefore the lay Magistrate that is no proper member of the Ecclesiastical congregation cannot in natural reason and equity haue that power of assembling the Clergy together Besides no Christian Emperor had euer yet so much as temporal dominion ouer al Christendome those Christians then that were not his subjects at al could not be called together by his authority That their Empire vvhen it was at the largest vvas not so large as the bounds and limits of Christian religion S. Leo himselfe is witnesse in these wordes Sermon 1. in Natiuit SS Apost Petri Pauli Rome being made head of the world by the Chaire of S. Peter doth rule ouer more Countries by heauenly religion then by earthly dominion Againe since the Emperours became Christian not one hundred yeares together scarse did one Emperour command ouer al the Empire but lightly one gouerned in the East another ouer the West I would then gladly know to whether of them it belonged to cal general Councels or whether the Church of God must be destitute of such Councels vntil that matter were agreed vpon Further the calling of national prouincial Councels doth according vnto S. Augustine and Antiquity Aug. Ep. 217. Cal. lib. 4. Instit c. 7. n. 8. allowed therein by M. Caluin and the great hundred of * Centur. 4. c. 7. col 534. Magdeburge appertaine vnto the Primates and Metrapolitans of the same nation and prouince therefore by the like proportion it doth not appertaine to the Emperors but vnto the chief Patriarke of the Church to cal a general Councel That S. Leo on vvhose authority M. Abbot here doth stand tooke S. Peter first and after him the Bishops of Rome to be such I wil briefly proue thus he vvriteth Out of the whole world one Peter is chosen Serm. tert de Assumptione sua to haue chiefe charge of the vocation of the Gentils and is placed ouer the other Apostles and al the Fathers of the Church so that albeit there be among the people of God many Priests and many Pastours yet doth Peter peculiarly gouerne them ouer whom Christ doth principally raigne so that al temporal Princes who vvil not deny Christ to raigne ouer them must by S. Leos verdict acknowledge themselues subject in spiritual cases to S. Peter and his successours The same he doth confirme at large in an Epistle to the Bishops of the prouince of Vienna where he concludeth in these wordes To which S. Peter whosoeuer doth deny the primacy Epistola 87. he cannot in any sort diminish his dignity but puffed vp with the spirit of pride he doth drowne himselfe in the gulfe of hel Now least any man should take exceptions against S. Peters successours the Bishops of Rome though he vvould graunt the supremacy vnto S. Peter I adde that S. Leo in that second place doth rather speake of his owne authority vnder the name of S. Peter impugned then by Hilarius Bishop of Vienna then of S. Peters owne time Yet for more cleare demonstration of it Sermon 2. de anniuersario Assumptionis suae take these his wordes The disposition and order of truth doth continue and blessed Peter perseuering in the fortitude of a rocke hath not forsaken the gouernement of the Church which he vndertooke Peter I say doth to this day hold on and continue stil and liueth in his successours which he confirmeth in an hundreth places of his Epistles by me for breuities sake omitted contenting my selfe vvith that which he vvriteth in one letter vnto Anastasius Bishop of the Thessalonians to whom you shal see what authority he giues Epist 82. ad Anastasium Like as saith he my predecessours haue giuen to your predecessours euen so doe I following their example delegate vnto your charity the roome or charge of my gouernement that you imitating our mildenesse may helpe vs in the care which we owe vnto al Churches by the institution of God principally and that you may in a sort represent the presence of our visitation vnto prouinces farre distant from the Apostolical See of Rome For by reason of your nearenesse to them you may more readily see what matters and in what manner either you your selfe may by your diligence compose or else reserue vnto our judgement vvhere going on according to the Canons of the holy Fathers made by the spirit of God to vse his owne wordes he giues to that Bishop of Thessalonia dignity and authority ouer many Metrapolitanes of diuers prouinces That none be chosen without his priuity but al confirmed by his authority Canon 6. Item That if among the Prelates there happen to be question of greater affaires which God forbidde that cannot be ended by the prouincial Synode the Metrapolitan shal then prouide to instruct your brother-hood of the state of the whole businesse and if the parties being present it cannot be appeased by your judgement let it whatsoeuer it be be referred to our knowledge Canon 7. vvhere he giueth him Authority to cal Bishops before him and a Councel also if
Rome vvhereas neither that Church then nor vve now doe reject the true fasting which the Scripture teacheth but only those opinions of fasting vvhich the Montanists first deuised and the Papists haue receiued against the Scripture to forbeare continually by way of religion such and such daies from such and such meates with a minde there in and by their very forbearing to doe a worship to God to satisfie for sinne to merit and purchase the forgiuenesse thereoff and to deserue eternal life WILLIAM BISHOP BEFORE we come to joine issue let this maxime of arguing be obserued He that vvil proue one to be the proper disciple of any Sect-master must doe it by producing the proper and peculiar doctrine of the same sect and not by alleaging such points of doctrine as are common to that sect vvith many others For example if I would proue a Protestant to be an Arrian I must not thinke to performe it by prouing that they beleeued in one God as the Arrians did or that they flie to the touch-stone of the Scriptures as the Arrians did refusing Traditions and that they relied much on the power of temporal Princes setting the Bishop of Romes authority at naught c. for none of these be proper branches of the Arrian sect but common to them with others Marry if I could proue them to affirme the Sonne of God touching his diuinity to be lesser then his Father or after his Father or not of the same substance vvith his heauenly Father I must needes be taken then to speake to the purpose Euen so if M. Abbot doe insist vpon those points of the Montanists errors which were proper to themselues and not common with others prouing vs to maintaine the same I then wil graunt that he acquiteth himselfe like a braue champion But if he doe make al his instances in such general circumstances of fastinges as the Catholike Church then did maintaine as vvel as the Montanists Yea that the Protestants themselues doe in part vphold and defend as wel as the Catholikes then euery man must needes acknowledge and take him for a wrangling Sophister and a vaine bragging writer that crakes of wonders and performes nothing Let vs now descend to his particulars and try what sharpnesse of wit and soundnesse of judgement he sheweth therein The Montanists saith he appointed certaine and standing daies for fasting and forbearing of certaine meates so doe the Papists I graunt vvhat be they therefore Montanists then the Protestants be also Montanists because they appoint certaine and standing daies of fastes as Friday Saturday the Imber and Lent-fasts and many feasts eues vvhich daies they appoint for the forbearing of flesh Is not this a proper peece of Montanisme that is common to so many Nay the Apostles themselues did the like as Tertullian in the same place graunteth vvere they also therefore Montanists see how M. Abbot beginneth to shame himselfe To the next The Montanists did not take any creature or meate to be vncleane but did only by way of deuotion forbeare at certaine times and the Papists doe also the same vvhich I also graunt And doe not the Protestants agree vvith them in the former part thinking no meate to be vncleane Now in the later they doe vvorse for they forbeare flesh at certaine times not of deuotion to chastise their bodies and to please God as the Montanists pretended but for worldly pollicy of fauouring the increase of flesh for the vpholding of the trade of fisher-men and to please their Prince Here let any Godly man be judge whether of these two endes of pleasing God or the Prince be more Christianlike and whether of them doe more sauour of the spirit of God he shal no doubt finde that herein it is much better to concurre with Tertullian then consort with the Protestants And that the best learned in the primitiue Church so thought and so taught I haue proued in the Question of fasting The Montanists being vrged with that place of S. Paul that it was the doctrine of Deuils to command to abstaine from meates answered that it touched Marcion and Tatianus who condemned meates as vncleane in their owne nature the same answere doe the Papists giue which I acknowledge vvillingly What are they thereby become Montanus disciples then vvas S. Augustine as a great Papist so no smal Montanist for he doth in most expresse tearmes so expound that place these be his wordes The Apostle doth in these wordes properly point at Aug. cōt Adimant Manichaeū c. 14. 1. Tim. c. 4. not them who therefore abstaine from such meates that they may thereby bridle their owne concupiscence or spare another mans weakenesse but those who thinke the flesh it selfe vncleane Doe you see how S. Augustine interpreteth those wordes of S. Paul euen as we doe who also answereth to euery of the Protestants objections against set fasting aboue a 1000. yeares before they troubled the world In like manner doth S. Hierome in the very wordes that M. Abbot sets downe for ours thus he writeth Lib. 1. cont Iouin ca. 41. The Apostle doth condemne them that forbidde to marry and command to abstaine from meates c. true but he aimed at Marcion and Tatianus and such other Heretikes that command perpetual abstinence as though the creatures of God were abhominable but we commend euery creature of God and doe only preferre fasting before fulnesse c. So that by this exposition of S. Paules doctrine vve are not proued Montanists but doe imitate therein the principal pillars of the ancient Roman Church S. Augustine and S. Hierome and doe therein also wipe away a sluttish imputation of Iouinian reuiued and set a foote againe by the Protestants that forsooth Lib. 1. cont Iouin cap. 3. We teach the doctrine of Deuils condemned by the Apostles and doe fal into the opinion of the Manichees because we command to abstaine on fasting daies from some kinde of meates which God created to receiue c. but of this more exactly in the Question of fasting Now to the rest of M. Abbots text The Montanists tooke that their fasting to be a seruice and worship to God vvherein they were not deceiued for it is written in the word of God Luc. 2. That Elizabeth a blessed widdow departed not from the Temple by fasting and praier seruing night and day seruing in Greeke Latreuousa that is doing seruice and worship to God as by praier so by fasting Againe by fasting watching and other bodily austerities we doe according to the common exposition of the auncient Fathers Rom. 12. exhibit our bodies to God a liuing bost as the Apostle speaketh holy pleasing God and a reasonable seruice It must needes then be a very holy and most acceptable seruice and vvorship of God that is resembled by S. Paul vnto a liuing and pure sacrifice Canon 5. And in the Councel of Nice it is said That we may offer to God the pure and solemne fast of Lent
of the present Roman Church he may vpon very smal consideration be reclaimed and brought to reforme his errours For to S. Peter himselfe who was afterwards Bishop of Rome was giuen euen by our Sauiour Christ IESVS ful power and authority to pardon whatsoeuer he saw fit to be pardoned Math. 16. vers 19. To thee I giue saith he the keies of the Kingdome of heauen whatsoeuer thou loosest or doest pardon vpon earth shal be pardoned in heauen And if S. Peter might loose any sinne how hainous soeuer much more might he release some part of the temporal paine which was due to sinne vvhich is properly to giue a libel of pardon the like power had S. Paul who did in the person of Christ 2. Cor. 2. vers 10. Cyprian l. 3. Epist 15. Pardon the incestuous Corinthian by cutting off some part of his penance vvhich otherwise he had beene to suffer for his former sinnes vvhich were then forgiuen S. Cyprian and the Bishops and Clergy in those auncient daies of the primitiue Church did vse to pardon and release the penance injoyned to grieuous offendours after their repentance at the intercession and request of the Confessors and designed Martirs as hath beene before declared The most authentike Councel of Nice doth declare Cōcil Nicen. cap. 12. that it is lawful for Bishops to deale more mildly and fauourably vvith them vvhom they saw to performe their injoyned penance seriously vvhich was to graunt them a pardon Leo. Epist 77 ad Nicetum num 6. The very same doth Leo the great vvho was Bishop of Rome aboue 1100. yeares past teach most plainly willing the Bishop to release of the due penance injoined what he thought good which is properly to giue indulgence or pardon I omit here Pope Siluester his predecessour and S. Gregory the great one of his successours because I haue before alleaged them not doubting but that these few so auncient so graue so learned vvil suffice to satisfie and instruct him that is willing to learne And as for communicating the same authority to others vvho can reasonably doubt of it considering that the power of absoluing from sinne which is farre greater then the other is imparted to al both Bishops and Parish Priests I haue also before proued most manifestly Leo. Epist 82 ad Anastat Gregor lib. 4. Epist 6. ad Episcop Arelat that both S. Leo and S. Gregory most worthy Bishops did as delegate their authority vnto other Bishops so reserue vnto their owne hearing and judgement the causes of greatest difficulty vvherefore M. Abbot if he wil hearken vnto reason cannot choose but hold himselfe therein fully satisfied He recuiles backe to Indulgences and multiplieth his demands about one and the same matter like to a Cooke that hauing but one sort of meate to serue in doth mince it into many mammocks and then make thereof sundry dishes Can the Pope saith he for saying such or such praiers or for doing this or that release a man from Purgatory for an hundreth or a thousand yeares What a question is this if the Pope can distribute indulgences as hath beene before proued no doubt but he can the rather doe it by injoyning the party that receiueth them to say vvithal some praiers or to doe some other good vvorkes for thereby the party doth the better deserue to be made partaker of the other grace But can he release a soule out of Purgatory for a thousand yeares Yes marry can he and that too not for some certaine number of yeares but for euer and euer The reason is for that the soules there are members of the same body that we are and there capable of the same graces of pardon vvhereof also they stand in very great neede according to the truth of Christian doctrine howsoeuer the Protestants doe erroneously thinke the contrary reade the Question of Purgatory And touching the present purpose among many other pardons graunted by S. Gregory the great there is to be seene vntil this day one Altar by him erected in the Monastery of S. Andrewes in Rome where he was himselfe first Nouice and afterwardes Abbot where at vvhosoeuer said Masse for a soule in Purgatory shal deliuer one there-hence Concerning the Iubilee which is free and ful pardon graunted once in fiue and twenty yeares vnto euery one that shal visit seauen Churches in Rome that yeare some fifteene times or thereabouts what new difficulty can there be about that yea it is as the most renowmed pardon that is graunted so the most reasonable for it can be obtained but once in fiue and twenty yeares and then exceeding hardly by vnder going a long costly and painful journey to the citty of Rome and by exercising there al the workes of piety and mercy as fasting praying and giuing of almes making general confession and receiuing the blessed Sacrament and often visiting of many Churches and Altars Those most godly meanes of training men to true repentance and satisfaction for their former faults and amendmēt of their liues if the Protestant religion were acquainted withal there would be among them some checke and stoppe of their vvicked courses But if they vvil needes sinne on themselues and neuer giue ouer nor amend vntil Gods judgments fal vpon them yet let them not be offended at vs that doe aduise al men to labour in time for such indulgences that they may escape the due punishment of their sinnes either in this vvorld or in the next Is it not also most probable and likely if those good soules vvho to doe some satisfaction for their former euil liues and to serue God more deuoutly in those holy places where some of the holy Apostles and an innumerable company of valiant Martirs and holy Confessors liued and died doe die by the way in that Godly purpose that they are carried by Angels to heauen as Lazarus was into Paradise we pray to God to command such by his holy Angels to be brought into Abrahams bosome as may be seene in the Masse for the dead But Balaeus in Latin and Bale the Irish Apostata in English M. Abbots worthy authour reporteth that Clement the sixt himselfe did command the Angels to carry them into Paradise No great regard is to be had vvhat such a lying lewd fellow relates and so I thinke him vnworthy any other answere Touching Canonization of Saints we hold that the Bishops of the prouinces vvhere their vertuous liues and most godly deathes cōfirmed by miracles are best knowne did alwaies from the beginning of christian religion declare and testifie to the Church that they were to be esteemed of al men for Saints Since it hath beene found most expedient that the vvhole course of the life and death of such being by most diligent inquisition tried out and taken in the places of their aboade be afterwardes sent to Rome there to be also throughly examined first and then accordingly to be declared Saints by the highest Pastor of the Church that
haue beene various in the transforming of his countenance In Germany beleeuing one thing in Heluetia another at Geneua turning the third way in Holland vvandering the fourth How many countries they infect with their new and prophane Gospel so many diuers professions of faith and distinct formes of Church gouernement they haue These changlinges that are so farre degenerated from their predecessors piety and doe disagree so much one with another Yea that doe in the same country often chop and change their owne religion are of al constant Catholikes to be auoided as vnstable and wauering soules caried about with euery blast of new doctrine But concerning dutiful obedience vnto the Prince vvho is Gods Lieutenant general in temporal causes Catholikes if they be compared to Protestants wil be found an hundred times more loyal and constant vvhich point because I haue touched in my answere vnto M. Abbots Epistle in the beginning of this booke I neede not here againe handle it at large And although some men of our religion haue now and then as fraile and sinneful creatures forgotten their duty both to God and their King yet they haue beene so few and that so seldome in comparison of the Protestants that for one of ours more then a thousand of theirs haue within this hundred yeares failed therein though we be in number a thousand of our religion for one of theirs if you take al Christendome ouer And albeit the state seeme now to be settled against the religion of our fore-fathers and not vnlike so to continue vntil it shal please God of his infinite mercies to alter and amend it vvhich notwithstanding as al the faithful know may be very shortly because his diuine power is infinite and no man able to resist his vvil yet we shal be by the assistance of Gods good grace so farre off from biting our tongues or the lip either thereat as M. Abbot fondly imagineth that vve wil rather pray to God to open our lips and to loose our tongues to magnifie his holy name that he hath giuen vs that true Christian happinesse and honour not only Phillip 1. vers 28. to beleeue a-right in Christ IESVS in these daies of infidelity but also to suffer disgrace and to sustaine persecution for the constant profession of his holy name and only true Catholike Apostolike Roman faith They who make profession of religion to please the Princes of the earth to heape vp honours and to rake riches togither haue great cause of griefe when they finde themselues therefore by the present state discountenanced impouerished and vtterly rejected But others vvho know our blessed Sauiour as al Christians ought to doe and the true honour vertue and riches of his Crosse doe more regard of his loue yea of one good looke of his then of al earthly Kinges countenances fauours and preferments And doe make a higher estimate of bearing his Crosse after him and of suffering persecution for his glorious name sake then of al vvorldly ease honours and commodities Imitating therein that generous and most noble minded Moyses Hebr. 11. vers 25. Who chose rather to be afflicted with the people of God then to haue the pleasures of temporal sinne esteeming the reproach for Christ greater riches then the treasures of the Aegiptians It doth not therefore so much trouble vs to behold the state settled against the Catholike religion for our owne temporal interest who haue thereby so manifold occasions to mortifie our euil passions to flie the temptations of the wicked world and to endeare our selues vnto our most louing redeemer But very great sorow and continual sadnesse of hart haue we to consider that Christian religion first planted in our country and euer since vntil our fathers daies most constantly continued is now banished thence and with it al honesty of life al good and charitable dealing with our neighbour is vtterly decaied and banished out of the City and Country And in place thereof swearing and forswearing drunkennesse dishonesty and al manner of deceit and knauery openly practised countenanced and without blushing professed That the goodly faire and stately Churches built by our Catholike Ancestors for Catholike assemblies at the blessed sacrifice of the Masse and for the due administration of the holy Sacraments and true preaching of Gods word be now prophaned and turned to places of dishonouring of our soueraigne Creatour and of seducing his poore creatures That the famous Vniuersities and other Schooles founded for instruction principally of Catholike doctrine and deuotion be now made shops of new errours loose manners and impiety Vpon these and such like spiritual considerations finding our poore country depriued in manner of al Gods blessings and our deare country-men made slaues of the Deuil and fuel for the flames of hel fire vve Catholikes are exceeding pensiue yet doe vve not therefore fare like madde men nor gnaw our tongues for anger as M. Abbot scornefully vvriteth but doe in bitternesse of soule most earnestly pray vnto the Father of mercies in vvhose handes are the harts of al Kinges to inspire our dread soueraigne King IAMES and the Lordes of his most honourable Councel vvith the true knowledge of his sacred vvil and word and to kindle in them so feruent a zeale of the Catholike Roman faith as that they may imploy those very rare and singular gifts of nature arte and experience which God hath plentifully powred vpon them towardes the reclaiming of our country from the new prophane heresies and most wicked conuersation of these miserable times vnto our Ancestours sound faith sincere honesty and most charitable and vpright dealing This chiefly is the heape of our heauinesse this is al the harme vve wish them this is al the treason that can be justly laid to our charge That vvith the aboundance of such honour and prosperity as this vale of misery affordeth them they might also be heires of eternal happinesse glory and felicity And albeit for this inestimable heauenly blisse vvhich we most hartily desire vnto our natiue soile and best beloued country we be stiled a thousand times traitours and euery way vsed most vnkindly yet we shal not surceasse by Gods grace to pray for them continually vvho doe day and night persecute vs yea ouer and besides be ready also by the assistance of the same his grace not only to bestow our best and most seruiceable daies to doe them good but also the dearest bloud in our bodies if it shal please our blessed Sauiour so to dispose of vs. And is it likely that men thus by the grace of God affected should cry out as M. Abbot malitiously surmiseth O fallaces spes O deceitful hopes doth he not here rather notably discouer the basenesse and corruption of his owne mind as exceeding far dissenting from the right temper and disposition of a sound and noble Christian who should be nothing daunted for seing the worldly state settled against him because our great Master Christ hath assured vs of that
other countries or vvas there euer such a shamelesse writer as M. Abbot that blusheth not to set out in print such monstrous and notorious lies that in falshood exceede al fictions of Poets and Painters and in malice doe match vvith any deuilish deuise whatsoeuer Oh into what lamentable calamity is our poore Country fallen that must haue such cosening Companions such false Hypocrites and most impudent Liars for the guides of their soules to saluation and for the only teachers of al spiritual doctrine Can any man that injoyeth the right vse of his senses giue credit and trust vnto them vvho make no conscience but a cōmon custome to lie al manner of lies nay such a one if they be wise they should not beleeue when he telleth them a truth which they doe otherwise know For Demetrius Phaleius being asked what euil did follow a liar Marry saith he that no man afterward beleeue him when he telleth truth And good reason for how knoweth he vvhether he doe not lie then as he was accustomed to doe before He therefore that wil be sure not to be deceiued must neither giue credit vnto M. Abbot vvho is plainely conuicted to haue told very many grosse and palpable lies Any plaine honest man must needes much maruaile to behold or heare that he who maketh profession of Gods pure word and the truth of the Gospel should take such a special delight in lying but he must remember that al is not gold that glisters Al be not true Pastors of Christes flocke that come in sheepe-skinnes Al be not sincere teachers of Gods word that take vpon them to be Preachers And no one more assured touch of counterfaite coyne no plainer proofe of a rauening vvolfe and false teacher then such often and euident lying For as God is the truth it selfe and al his doctrine most true so are they vvith truth alone to be vpholden and defended Iob. 13. v. 7. What saith holy Iob hath God neede of our lies or that we should speake deceitfully in his cause no verily for the truth is strong enough of it selfe to confound falshood Fortis est veritas praeualet But the Deuils cause it is that needeth to be bolstered out and vnder-propped with lies Iohan. 8. vers 44. For he is a liar and the Father of lies And without lying no falshood can be deceitfully coloured and made to appeare and seeme truth He then that wil be fedde vvith lies let him take the Deuil to his Father and M. Abbot or some other such like of his lying Ministers for his Master A certaine Minister being told that M. Abbot was reputed much to blame and very hardly censured by many discreet persons for that he had vsed so much deceit and leasinges in his writinges answered forsooth in his defence that he could not bely the Papists and their cause too much What can be said vnto such shamelesse persons surely nothing else but that the new light of their Gospel is now growne to his perfection vvhen as the brochers of it doe not only vnder-hand colourably paint it out with lies but are not ashamed openly to maintaine that they cannot lie to much in that cause O holy cause that needeth the helpe of lies But good master Minister be better aduised I pray you and rather hearken vnto the graue counsaile of the auncient Preacher Eccles 4. vers 26. Ne accipias faciem aduersus faciem tuam aduersus animam tuam mendacium take not falshood that is the face of the Deuil against truth vvhich is the true face of euery reasonable creature made after the Image of God and doe not admit lying against thine owne soule Sapient 1. vers 11. For the tongue that lieth killeth the soule Yea it doth not only kil his owne soule that lieth but the others also that beleeueth his lies blinding him with errors and so leading him blindfold into hel fire Math. 15. vers 14. For when the blinde guideth the blinde they both fal into the ditch Wherefore good Sir if you wil not yet a while make open profession to cast away your owne soule vvilfully and to leade al your followers after you to eternal damnation doe not for very shame vphold and maintaine open lying But if it be Gods good pleasure that you your selues shal make kowne to the vvorld that yee doe not only vse lying but also defend it as lawful necessary to vnder-proppe your badde cause then my trust in Gods infinite goodnesse and mercies is that the Moone-shine of your obscure Gospel waneth a-pace and the daies of your deceit draw towardes an end For howsoeuer you like iniquity and allow of leasinges Psal 5. v 6. God as the Prophet Dauid teacheth doth hate al them that worke iniquity and wil destroy al them that speake lies by bestowing vpon his faithful and prudent seruants such heauenly light and grace as they may easily discerne the juggling and false trickes of Protestant teachers 2. Tim 3. vers 9. For not their folly only as the Apostle speaketh but their falshood also and trechery are now sufficiently discouered and made manifest vnto al men of any reasonable capacity and study Wherefore al that haue tasted of the true gifts of Christes spirit vvil follow them no longer in their most dangerous and damnable courses but fly as fast and as farre from such false Prophets as poore sheepe doe from the jawes of rauening wolues and with speede returne happily vnto the only true fold of Christes flocke the holy Catholike Apostolike and Roman Church there to learne and imbrace that sincere auncient faith and pure religion vvhich only can saue their soules and which being planted by Christ and his Apostles hath euer since continued and brought forth aboundance of diuine fruit al the world ouer Which God almighty of his incomprehensible bounty graunt through the inestimable merits of IESVS CHRIST our most gratious Lord and Sauiour to whom vvith the Father and the holy Ghost be al honour prayse and glory for now and euer AMEN PRINTED ANNO DOMINI M. D.C.VIII A BRIEFE ADVERTISEMENT TO THE READER I Haue hitherto set downe M. Abbots owne text word by word that the juditious reader comparing it with my answere may truly discerne vvhat substance is in his writing And how farre forth he is to credit him in the rest that hath in the first and best part of his booke behaued himselfe so insufficiently in matter of learning and dealt so dishonestly in the manner of handling of it There remaines behinde in this answere vnto my Epistle some light skirmishes and vaine friuolous brauadoes vpon those points of controuersie which I in one sentence only touched in the same Epistle excepting much foule speech and many slanderous lies which he plentiful powreth out by the way in both vvhich masteries I willingly leaue to him the bucklers Now because those his discourses are as it vvere scopae dissolutae not arguments soundly knit togither and set in any good aray but a feeble loose idle and disordered kinde of wrangling besides also the very same questions be afterwardes handled againe distinctly and particularly I haue judged it farre better to handle throughly euery controuersie in his due place then first lightly to skimme them ouer in hast as he hath done and afterward like vnto one that had either forgotten or ouer-shotten himselfe to recoile and turne backe againe to treate of the same matter more orderly and substantially vvhich course I hope wil not be misliked of the wise Take courteous Reader this that is already finished in good part If thou finde any thing in it to thy liking giue the glory to God And if thou be Catholike helpe me vvith thy good praiers that he who hath giuen me grace to beginne may increase his blessings vpon me to bring it to a good and perfect end The end of the first Part. FINIS COVRTEOVS READER I must needes acquaint thee with a notable legerdemaine which by perusing the Authour I found out after the rest was printed M. Abbot to proue that the Pope had no authority in Scotland 1200. yeares after Christ auerreth Page 117. that Alexander the second vtterly for-badde the Popes Legate to enter within his Kingdome which is not true For his Authour Mathew Paris declareth In Hērico 30 page 667. that the King indeede did at the first oppose himselfe against that visitation of his Kingdome to be made by the said Legate not for that he did not acknowledge the Popes supreme authority in those Ecclesiastical causes but because it was needlesse the matters of the Church being as he said in good order and for feare of ouer-great charges Nay further the said King did write a large letter vnto the Pope himselfe as the very same Authour recordeth where he first acknowledgeth In Hērico 30 page 873. that very person to be his Holinesse Legate as wel in Scotland as in England and Ireland Moreouer the King confesseth that he himselfe his heires and subjects were and would be obedient vnto the Popes jurisdiction and censures with much more to the same purpose Which alone is sufficient to conuince M. Abbot to be so perfidious and without al conscience in alleaging auncient Authours that no man who wil not willingly be blindly ledde by him can repose any trust in his allegations Good Reader beare with faultes in printing which besides false pointing be not many The principal that I remember are these Page 169 line 21 For Constantius the fourth reade Constantine the fourth and so in al that matter following treating of Pope Agatho his obedience to the said Emperour Page 170 line 32 though Emperour reade although an Emperour Page 186 line 21 for Concilij Praesidijs reade Concilij Praesidibus page 198 line 8 in the allegation of S. Leo there wants in the margent the quotation of his 23. Epistle to Martianus Augustus for the vvorship of Relikes Pag. 213 lin 27 for passed reade possessed pag. 261 line 25 for and ego reade an ego page 272 line 16 for Vndoubtly reade Vndoubtedly
the Clergy of Rome fallen into the heresie of Montanus and thereupon oppugning the same Church declareth what the said Church then taught concerning fasting Tertul. de Iejun aduersus Psythicos of purpose to dispute against it They say saith he that men are to fast indifferently at their discretion not by commandement euery one according to his owne time and occasion that the Apostles did so obserue imposing no yoke of standing fasts and such as should in common be kept of al c. WILLIAM BISHOP FROM the Pastours of the See of Rome M. Abbot is declined to the enemies of the same Church doth he not fairely obserue his owne order and promise But vvel M. Abbot if Tertullian for enuy of the Clergy of Rome fel into heresie let your charity towards the Roman Clergy helpe to draw your selfe out of the same sinke of heresie But where was your judgement to cite an author vvriting out of the corrupt humour of enuy as you confesse your selfe for an vpright indifferent reporter of his aduersaries cause Did euer enuy yet learne to speake vvel Why did you not rather alleage some sound Catholike Authour for the reporter of Catholikes opinions What is it because as Vultures and Rauens doe rather flie to rotten carrion and dead stinking carcases then to any sound bodies so they that seeke to deuour poore sinful soules doe make choise of tainted and corrupt authors out of their contagion to infect and destroy others Simile simili gaudet Like wil to like Nay vvhat if M. Abbot be not satisfied with the badde vvordes of Tertullian vvhich proceeded out of enuy and malice but doth yet by chopping and changing of them make them farre worse then they be in the authour is he not then to be esteemed as a most corrupt mangler of antiquity Tertullian to make his owne error seeme the lesse proposeth odde trifling arguments against it which he could answere with more ease and that after an odious manner as the aduerse party is wont to doe that he might make the Catholikes out of loue with them yet doth M. Abbot relate the same in great grauity as the most sincere substantial proofes of the contrary party sauing that now and then after his old fashion he falsifieth his authour too Now to the vvordes of Tertullian the first are craftily cropped off by him for Catholikes neuer said so absolutely That they were to fast at their owne discretion and not by commandement for Tertullian confesseth there that Catholikes held themselues bound to fast the Lent and on Wednesdaies and Fridaies therefore they could not say that they were to fast only at their owne discretion True it is that they answered him and the Montanists that they vvere not bound to keepe any of their new deuised fasting-daies nor to fast after the manner that they prescribed and that by the commandement as they said and lied of the Paraclete or holy Ghost from such fasts they proclaimed themselues free vvhereupon he malitiously reported that they said they might fast when they list and were not bound to fast by any cōmandement Secondly whereas Tertullian saith in the name of Catholikes That the Apostles imposed no yoke of standing fasts and such as should be commonly kept of al Nisi eo tempore quo oblatus est sponsus by which he meaneth specially the Lent wherein the memory of Christes death is celebrated and afterward mentioneth the Catholikes halfe-fasts as he tearmeth them of Wednesdaies and Fridaies M. Abbot to make them speake like good Protestants dasheth al that cleane out of the text leauing them to say that the Apostles appointed no fasting daies at al neither Lent nor Fridaies So what by Tertullians odious relation and M. Abbots false addition or substraction there is a pretty peece of cosenage to gul the simple and vnwary reader The wordes then of Tertullian being first such as proceeded from enuy and then also much mangled afterward and peeced togither at M. Abbots pleasure I hold it not necessary to stand vpon them but doe come vnto M. Abbots inferences and goodly buildinges vpon such a deceitful foundation ROBERT ABBOT SEE M. Bishop how like a Protestant the Church of Rome spake in those daies would you not thinke that Luther or Caluin or Beza were the Authour of these wordes How lightly doe you regard these arguments from vs which the Church of Rome 1400. yeres agoe vsed to the very same purpose that we now doe But the Church of Rome hath learned now to sing another songe shee condemned the heresie of Montanus then but now shee maintaineth it I auouch it M. Bishop that concerning fasting neither you nor al your fellowes are able to acquite the Church of Rome of the heresie of Montanus WILLIAM BISHOP I See M. Abbot how like the Protestant humour is vnto the distempered spirits of old time I thinke verily that Luther Caluin Beza and such late plagues of Christendome doe yet more deceitfully and falsly report Catholikes opinions and arguments then euer Tertullian did How lightly these arguments which you afterward enforce are to be regarded shal shortly appeare The Church of Rome hath not changed one note of her old songe concerning fasting neither shal you with the helpe of al your companions proue vs to be Montanists in this point of fasting I being the simplest of a thousand amongst the learned on our side vvil quickly cleare our party from that imputation And contrariwise I doubt not but to proue you and yours to be the disciples of louinian and Aërius old condemned Heretikes in this point of fasting Let vs lay vvordes a-side and come to arguments ROBERT ABBOT THE Montanists appointed certaine and standing daies for fasting and for the forbearing of certaine meates so doe the Papists The Montanists did not take any creature or meate to be vncleane but did only by way of deuotion as they pretended forbeare at certaine times and the Papists also doe the same The Montanists being vrged vvith that place of S. Paul to Timothy of them that cōmanded to abstaine from meates answered that that place touched Marcion and Tatianus such others vvho condemned the creatures as euil and vncleane not them vvho did not reject the creatures but only forbeare the vse of them at sometimes the same answere giue the Papists The Montanists tooke that their fasting to be a seruice worship of God so doe the Papists The Montanists thought that their fasting did merit at gods hands that it was a satisfaction for sinne that emptines of belly did much auaile vvith God and made God to dwel with man the same effects doe the Papists teach of their superstitious fasts Looke what arguments the Papists vse for their fasting the same Tertullian vsed for the Montanists Looke what cauils and calumniations the Papists vse against vs of feasting in steed of fasting of Epicurisme and pampering the belly the same Tertullian being a Montanist vsed against the doctrine of the Church of