doth recant The third article conteyneth 5. demandes 1 Shew me why our common knowen Church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion conteyned in the same THere may be diuers good reasons shewed why your Church commonly knowen to be the church of Antichrist did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion conteined therein First because she coulde not the copies thereof being so many by the prouidence of God dispersed throughout the worlde Secondly because she thought it not so needefull hauing other meanes to worke her deuilish deuise For although she coulde not corrupt the scripture yet it made the lesse matter because she founde meanes to diminish and controll the authority therof by aduancing decrees of men Popes and Councells to be equall or of greater authoritie than the scripture Thirdly because she woulde be lesse in feare to be reproued by the scripture she prouided that the knowledge thereof shoulde be hidden from the vnlearned people by a strange tongue and from the learned by the tedious mazes of questions deuised by her Canonistes and Sententiaries Fourthly because she submitted all interpretation of the scripture to her owne iudgement and therefore woulde not be controlled by the iudgement thereof but woulde alwayes expound it as it liked her best As appeareth by Ockam and Duns who though they confesse that transubstantiation seemeth to them contrary to the scripture and reason yet they beleued it because of the authoritie of the church and for none other cause These are the reasons why the Romish church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testamēt as the true Religion And yet how corrupt that Latine translation is which they woulde needes thrust vpō vs is sufficiently knowen to all learned men euen in such texts as are the most coulerable places for the defence of Popish doctrine I will geue one example for all They alleage the text 1. Cor. 10. Qui stat videat ne cadat He that standeth let him take heede he fall not against the certainetie of faith whereas the Greeke hath not he that standeth but he that thinketh he standeth let him take heede he fall not Thus the popish church cannot altogether excuse her selfe from corrupting of the text of the Testament whether it was of fraude or of ignorance or of negligence the Lorde knoweth 2 Shew me why she kept not so safely and faithfully the true sense of God his word as she preserued the word it selfe BEcause it was against her owne estimation and profit which are the chiefe endes for which popish Prelates mainteyne popish religion Take away the Popes prerogatiue which is contrary to the sense of God his word downe goe Cardinalls Legates Prothonotaries downe goeth all the Court of Rome take away workes of supererogation which are contrary to the Scripture downe goe Abbeys Priories and Chantries Take away the sacrifice of the Masse Purgatory which are contrary to the word of God downe goeth the estimation and gaynes of all the popish clergie And this is the cause why the popish church kept not so safely and faithfully the true sense of God his word as she preserued the word it selfe although she preserued not the word it self in such safetie as becommed the Church of Christ. 3 Shew me why we should beleue the Papistes as you terme them for the word it self and rather you Protestants thā them for the meaning of the word WE doe not chalenge credit to our selues in any poynt so presumptuously as the Papistes that men must beleue it because we affirme it But because we proue it to be true by the worde of god And therefore for the meaning of the word you should beleue vs rather than them because our groundes proues are better then theirs or else we require not to be beleued better than they 4 Shew me why you beleued our Church telling you this to be God his booke will not credit her auouching this to be the true and vndoubted sense of the same booke IF we had no better ground to perswade vs of the authoritie of God his booke than the testimony of your Church you may be sure we would not beleue it But because we haue most stedfast assurance of God his spirite for the authority of that booke with the testimony of the true Church in all ages If you say it is God his booke we beleue you not because you say so but because we know it to be true But if you bring out a false sense we beleue you not because we know it to be false are able to proue by the word of God that it is contrary to the meaning of the holy Ghost To be plaine with you we geue as much credit to your Church as to the deuill When the deuill sayth it is written He shall giue his angells charge ouer thee and with their handes they shall hold thee vp that thou dash not thy foote against a stone We beleue that this is the worde of god But when he auoucheth this to be the meaning of it that we may cast downe our selues from a Church steeple without daunger we doe not beleue him because we know this sense is contrary to an other Scripture which sayth Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. So when you say these wordes are the Scripture of God This is my body We beleue it because we knowe it to be true But when you say this is the meaning of these wordes This bread is turned into my naturall bodye we beleue you not because it is contrary to all places of Scripture which proue the trueth of Christ his humanitie or naturall body Thus I shewe you why we beleue you if you say the Scripture is God his word namely because we know it to be true why we beleue you not saying this is the meaning of it that is because we knowe by the word of God that it is false 5 Last of all Shew me why you beleued the olde known church affirming this to be the word of God and will not beleue her affirming Luther to be an heretike shew me good reason or Scripture for these thinges and I recant IF you meane by the olde Church the primitiue Church whose testimony of the word of God we allow beleue I deny that the primitiue Church did affirme Luther to be an heretike or the doctrine that he taught which we hold to be heresie but I am able to proue that the primitiue Church from which you haue receiued the Scripture affirmeth your doctrine to be heresie your Church the Church of Antichrist But if by the old knowne Church you meane the Church of old knowne to be the Church of Antichrist which is the popish church we beleue the deuill if he speake the trueth and we beleue not an Angell comming from heauen if he bring any other Gospel than S. Paule deliuered to the Galathians Therefore when your
but he was of our Church and Religion And I reade that king Edward the third both in his Parliament holden Anno Domini 1371. and at other times with diuers other noble men defended his cause in so much that so long as he liued all the popish byshops coulde do him no harme yet did he openly inueigh against the Pope calling him Antichrist and all popish doctrine without any couller or dissimulatioÌ„ both in the vniuersitie of Oxeford where he was reader and also in his sermons abroade as appeareth by his bookes and English homilies which yet are coÌ„mon to be seene with vnlesse he had bene supported and maintained by the kinge and other potentates coulde neuer haue continued so long as he did Further haue you not hearde of Zisca and Procopius two mighty Capitaines which defended the Bohemians from the tyrannie both of the Emperour the Pope and almost all the Princes of Germanie For what cause did Paule the second Anno Domini 1466. condemne George a noble and a worthy Prince king of Bohemia for an heretike and depriued him of his kingdome was it not for defending the Protestantes in his dominion Thus you see that some Princes and Potentates haue not onely offered but haue in deed taken in hand to defend our church which you thought vnable to be shewed wherfore I chalenge your promise you must recante The 11. article is so confuse that it is harde to bring it into any certeine numbre of demandes 1 Againe I requier of the Protestants to declare by good histories or by reasonable likelihoode when the true church as they compt theirs decayed I Answer euen in the Apostles time there arose many heresies which did not a litle trouble the Church but immediatly after the Apostles time while the fathers of the church were earnestly occupied in resisting of horrible heresies by the craft of Satan some errors and abuses crept into the true Church of Christ which at the first because they were small and men occupied in greater matters were either not espied or not regarded as may be knowen by the writinges of Iustinus Martyr and Irenaeus two of the most auncient writers sence the Apostles time Iustinus was in this error that he thought that the Angells lusted after women and therefore were turned into Deuills It seemeth also that the Church in his time was in some error about second mariages and diuorcements Irenaeus affirmeth that our Sauiour Christ liued here 50. yeares which he sayeth was receyued of them that heard it euen of the Apostles mouthes Also both he and Papias which was before him and was the disciple of S. Iohn are charged by S. Ieronym in Catalogo Script Eccl. to haue held this error that Christ should raigne a thousand yeares after the Resurrection here in the flesh whereby it is manifest seeing these auncient fathers and pillers of the Church were thus stayned with errors that the Church in their time could not be free from the same And so it is euident that the true Church decayed immediatly after the Apostles times 2 VVhat yeare the Religion of the Papistes came in and preuayled ALthough many abuses and corruptions were entred into the church of Christ immediatly after the Apostles time which the deuill planted as a preparatiue for his eldest sonne Antichrist Yet we may well say that the religion of the Papistâ—s came in and preuailed that yeare in which the Pope first obteyned his Antichristian exaltation which was in the yeare of our Lord 607. when Boniface the third for a great summe of mony obteyned of Phocas the trayterous murtherer and adulterous Emperour that the Bishop of Rome should be called and counted the head of all the Church Since that time that deuilish heresie hath alwayes increased in error vntill the yeare of our Lord 1414. in which the Councell of Constance decreed to robbe the people of the Sacrament of Christ his blood From this time it hath againe decaied being mightely subdued by the bright beames of the Gospell shining in the world and at the length shall be vtterly destroyed 3 VVhether all their true Church was so soundly sleeping that none could preach against it as it first entred WHen the coÌ„ming of Antichrist was in all power of lying signes and wonders in so much that if it were possible the very elect should be deceiued and a general departing from the faith was foreshewed and the Church to be driuen into the wildernes what maruell were it if none of our Church could preach against it as it first entred yet because you speake of the first entring of popish religion which dependeth chiefly vpon the Popes authoritie you shall heare that when it first began to aduaunce it selfe there wanted not some either to preach or write against it When Victor bishop of Rome about the yeare of our Lord 200. passed the bondes of his authoritie in excommunicating of all the Churches of Asia many bishops withstoode him and especially Irenaeus bishop of Lyons and Policrates of Ephesus as witnesseth Eusebius libro 5. cap. 25. Eccle. S. Cyprian also reproueth Cornelius bishop of Rome for that he was moued by threatning of heretikes to receiue their letters did not send them backe into Africa to their own bishop lib. 1. Ep. 3. Also when Stephanus bishop of Rome was bold to communicate with Basilides and Martialis two Spaniards that were iustly excommunicated and deposed by the bishops of their owne prouince sought to restore them Cyprian and his felow bishops of Aphrica being required to giue their aduise gaue counsell that in no wise they shoulde be receiued not a litle blaming Stephanus that beinge far of and ignorant of their cause he would take vpon him to defend such wicked men lib. 1. Ep. 4. Likewise when the same Stephanus threatned excommunication to Helenus and Firmilianus and almost all the Churches of Asia because they thought that such as were baptized by heretikes shoulde be baptized againe he was misliked by Dionysius of Alexandria and diuers other godly bishops as appeareth by his Epistle wrytten to Xystus Euseb. lib. 7. cap. 5. Cyprian also reproueth him very sharply for the same opinion accusing him of presumption and contumacy Epi. ad Pompeium and in his epistle to Quintinus he sayth plainly that Peter himselfe was not so arrogant nor so presumptuous that he would say he held the primacy that other men should obey him as his inferiors When Anastasius Innocentius Zozimus Caelestinus bishops of Rome all on a row chalenged prerogatiue ouer the bishops in Aphrica by forginge a false Canon of the Nicene Councel they were withstoode by all the bishops of Aphrica who decreed that none vnder paine of excommunicatioÌ„ should appeale to any bishop beyond the sea Concil Aphrican cap. 92. and that the bishop of the chiefe see should not be called prince of priestes or highest priest but onely bishop of the chiefe see Conc. Aph. cap. 6. When Celestinus byshop of Rome dealt hardly with the
whome the papistes counte no parte of their church but schismatikes conuerted the Moscouites first of all vnto the profession of the name of Christ which yet continue in their religion being neither the true faith nor yet popish religion As for the popish church as it is certeine that it hath peruerted and corrupted all partes of the Latine or Westerne Church with Idolatry and false religion so it shal be harde for the papistes to proue that it hath conuerted any Nation from Gentility to the popish religion except some partes of Germanie and them by force of armes rather than by preaching and reaching as appeareth by the conuersion of Liuonia Anno Domini 1200. of Prussia Anno Domini 1254. and of Lithuania Anno Domini 1386. wherefore I conclude that seeing I haue shewed that our Church holding the true doctrine of the Apostles is that which conuerted all nations to true religion and that the popish church hath not conuerted any people to true religion nor all people to the profession of the name of Christ this chalenger whosoeuer he be do the recant The second article conteyneth 4. demandes 1 I aske of him what Church it was which hath induced the Christian people through the whole worlde to geue most humble credit in all points to the holy bookes of the Byble I Aunswere it was the Church of Christ and not the Popish church which hath commended the bookes of holy Scripture to be beleued of all true Christians where soeuer they be although it be the office of the holy Ghost to open the hartes of men and to forme them that they may beleue the scripture to be true like as it is the office of the scripture or worde of God to trie and examine whether it be the spirite of God that perswadeth vs to beleue any thing so the spirite beareth witnesse to the worde and the worde to the spirite As for the popish church it coulde not induce the Christian people to geue credit to the scripture in all pointes because she is contrarie to the scripture in many pointes and euen in the cheefest pointes of Christian Religion namely in pointes concerning the glorie of God and the saluation of mankinde geuing the glory of God to dead men and dumbe Images and denying the mercy of God pourchased by the onely sacrifice of Christes death to be the onely cause of mans saluation Finally seeing it is manifest by the aunswere to the first article that the popish church did not conuerte all nations to the profession of the Christian faith it is euident thereby that the popish church did not induce all them that are called Christians to geue credit to the bookes of the holy Bible as this chalenger woulde haue it to be thought 2 VVhat Church hath had the discerning seuering of them from other writinges of all sortes THe Church of Christ hath not an absolute authority to allow or refuse bookes of the scripture but a iudgment to discerne true writinge from counterfaicts the word of God of infallible verity from the writing of men which might erre this iudgement she hath not of her selfe but of the holy Ghost as for the popish Church it can not be said to haue this iudgemēt of discerning the scripture of God from other writings not only because she is so blind that she can not discerne betwene the Canonical bookes of the scripture from the Apocrypha writings as appereth by receauing the bookes of the Machabees Ecclesiasticus c. to be of equall authoritie with the bookes of the Law Psalmes c. but also because she is so presumptuous as to compel men to beleue that Customes and traditions writinges of doctors decrees of Popes and Councells are equall with the authoritie of God his worde yea are of force to alter and change the lawe of God and the institution of Christ set forth vnto vs in the scripture And although she boast that she receaueth all the bookes of scripture yet this proueth no more that she is the Church of Christ than was the churches of the Arrians Donatistes Nouatians Euthychans other heretikes which receiued the Bible as well as the Popish church 3 VVhat Church hath had the custodie of them and most safely hath preserued them for the necessary vse of God his people and from the corruption of aduersaries as well of Iewes as heretikes of all sortes THe prouidence of God hath alwayes preserued the Scripture both from the violence of tyrants from the falshoode of heretikes and hath neuer suffred the true Church to be destitute of the necessarie vse thereof But the popish church hath not kept the scripture for the necessary vse of the people which hath so kept it in an vnknowen tongue that the people coulde haue no vse much lesse the necessary vse thereof wherefore if this be a note of the Catholike Church to kepe the worde of God for the necessarie vse of God his people it is plaine that the popish church is not the Catholike Church which hath kept the scripture so that God his people coulde haue no vse thereof And if the only custodie of the scripture from corruption of heretikes be a sure note of the Church why is not the Greeke Church the Catholike Church which vnto this day hath kept the scripture as safely as the popish church why are not other Estern Churches of Asia which neuer acknowledged the Pope or popish religion true Churches which likewise haue preserued the scripture as we haue seen of late that the newe Testament is printed in the Syrian tongue at themperours charges for the encrease of Christian faith among them And finally why are not the Iewes the Catholike Church which haue kept the old Testament in Hebrue more faithfully than euer the Papistes And because they boast of safe preseruing of the scriptures all men that are learned in the tongues can testifie in how corrupt a Latin translation they haue kept the scriptures both of the olde and of the new Testament 4 And let the Protestant declare to me that their Congregation hath had from time to time or euer had right herein or any other Church sauing the Catholike Church and I recant OVr Congregation which is the body of Christ hath euer had both right and possession of the inestimable treasure of the word of Christ her heade as appeareth by this that our Church and Congregation beleueth nothing but that she learneth in it acknowledgeth that all thinges profitable to saluation are sufficiently conteined in it and finally in all thinges submitteth her selfe to the iudgemēt of it But the popish church which beleueth many thinges contrarie to the scripture teacheth many thinges beside the scripture necessary to saluation and refuseth to haue her faith doctrine and ceremonies to be iudged by the scripture neither hath neither euer had any right to the scripture though she haue neuer so many bookes of them in possession Wherefore these thinges considered this chalenger
prayer what waye of ministring of the sacraments your Church had before Papistry as you call it did preuaile in the worlde IVstinus Martyr in his second Apollogie to the Emperour declareth plainely what order of seruice and ministration of sacramentes our Church had before Papistry preuayled On the daye called Sonday sayth he there is a meeting together of all them that dwell in the Citie or in the countrie and the monumentes of the Apostles or the writinges of the Prophetes are reade vntill it be thought sufficient when the reader hath made an ende he that is our ouerseer or cheefe minister maketh a sermon of admonition and exhortation to follow those good thinges that are reade After this we all stande vp together and make our prayers and as we haue saide before when our prayers are ended there is brought forth bread and wine water and the cheefe minister doth likewise with all his might yelde prayers and thankesgeuing and the people aunswereth Amen Then is made distribution to euery one and receyuing of those thinges for which thankes was geuen and to them that be absent it is sent by the deacons Such as are riche and willing doe geue almes what they will c. By this one authoritie it may be seene though other might be brought what order of seruice and ministration of sacraments our Church vsed before Papistry gat the vpper hande 2 Shew one booke of Communion or what els you list that was in English or lacked prayer for the departed or inuocation of Sainctes in heauen or that wanted oblation or sacrifice or that charged a number to receyue or els that the preest coulde not consecrate nor say Masse himselfe or shew any note in a Communion booke that the people shoulde take the sacrament for plaine breade or that they should geue no honor to it shew this booke or any leafe or line of this booke IT may trouble a wise man to aunswere all the questions that a foole can propounde you requier to see a booke of Communion in English or that lacked c. When it is confessed that the English nation receiued their religion first from Rome at such time as Religion there was verie corrupt what marueill is it if we can not shewe you such a Communion booke as you require but we can easily shew you out of the scripture the the Communion ought to be ministred in the vulgare tongue that prayer for the deade and to the deade ought not to be vsed that the sacrament ought not to be turned into a sacrifice that there ought to be a communiō of many receauers and not a priuate masse that the substance of the bread is not changed that the elementes of the sacrament are not to be honored these I say we can proue out of the worde of God the Catholike writers of the olde Church And though perchaunce it wil be harde to finde a communion booke in English yet haue I founde you a canon of the Laterane Councell that it ought to haue bene translated into English yet are there founde diuers monumentes of Antiquitie as Prayers Psalmes and Homilies c. in the olde English or Saxons tongue in which the reall presence transubstantiation and other poinctes of Popish doctrine are plainly confuted There may be shewed you also Bybles both the olde Testament and New in the English tongue of diuers translations in olde written hande Also great bookes of English homilies inueighing directly against the Pope and all Popish doctrine in olde English written hande with diuers other small treatises and pamphlets of like matters if these woulde do you any good you might haue the sight of them when you please 3 Or any Church or Congregation that euer had any Authenticall seruice but ours and I recant THe Church of the Brytannes before Augustine came in with Romish seruice had they not trow you Authenticall seruice which continued in the faith of Christ euen from the Apostles time The Grecians also Orientall churches haue they not vnto this day their Authenticall seruice which is not yours If you can not deny this you should recant The 13. article hath 2. demaundes 1 Furthermore I requier to know what shoulde be the cause that the Protestants them selues doe receiue all Byshops Priestes Deacons and other officers spirituall of all sortes of our Catholike church and doe admit them as men lawfully and sufficiently ordered both to preach minister sacraments and to exercise spirituall iurisdiction no lesse but rather more than if they were of their owne ordering where we of the Catholike church doe not acknowledge any man of their calling to be any whit more fitte for any spirituall function than other lay men ALthough all godly men wishe more seueritie of discipline to be vsed in receyuing them that come out of heresies to serue in the Church than is commonly practised in England yet you are highlie deceyued if you thinke we esteeme your offices of Bishops priests deacōs any better than the state of lay men but farre worse for we iudge them to be nothing els but Antichristianitie heresie and blasphemie And therefore we receiue none of them to minister in our church except they forsweare your religion And so their admission is not an allowing of your ordering but a new calling vnto the ministerie 2 Therefore vpon this presumption that they doe not onely admit our ministring of sacraments but also the lawfull ordering of the ministers for the same if they can shew me why our church hauing by their owne consent and approuing lawfull priestes and bishops should not be the true church I recant YOu presume to much as I saide before to thinke that we receiue your orderinge to be lawfull or your ministring of sacraments to be pure And if you gather that we admitte your ministration of sacraments because we doe not rebaptize them that were baptized by you we maye likewise gather that you admit our ministration of sacraments because you doe not rebaptize them that are baptized of vs nor marrie againe those that are married in our Church wheras you compt mariage to be a sacrament so that our accepting of your doings doth no more allow your church than your accepting of our doinges doth allow our Church And as touching the sacrament of Baptisme because you reteyne the Institution in baptizing in the name of the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost and in asmuch as the sacraments take not their effect of the minister but of God we receiue it as of other heretikes which likewise reteine the Institution Wherefore there is no cause why you shoulde thinke we allow yours to be the true Church thereby So that there is good cause why you shoulde recant The 14. article hath 5. demandes 1 Also I demande what furniture or commodity in seruing God the Christianity of any age or any part of Christendome had euer by your Congregations THe seruice of God hath small neede of furniture in outwarde thinges for
were approued in S. Augustines and S. Ambroses times abrogated and disanulled either because they were vnprofitable or else hurtful Last of all what superstitious vsages doth the church of Rome still approue euen such as the wiser sort of Papistes are ashamed of 5 Or that she suffereth any man damnably abusing her religion without open reprehension thereof proue any of these thinges and I recant THe true Church of Christ in such places as she is suffereth no man damnably abusing her Religion with out open â—eprehension as in the dayes of VValdo VVickleffe Husse c. whereof sufficient mention is made before but because she is not in all places at all times many men yea whole nations may damnably erre and not be reprehended of her As all the Mahometistes which occupie the greatest part of the world who doth or hath alwaies openly reprehended them And the Romish Church can well enough abide the true Religion of Christ to be damnably abused not onely without reprehension but also with allowing For when the Friars Dominicanes Franciscans had forged a newe Gospell out of the doctrine of Ioaâ—himus and the visions of Cyril which they called the Gospell of the holy Ghost the Gospell that should endure hereafter the euerlasting Gospell which diuilish gospell they affirmed to be so much more perfect then the Gospell of Christ as the Sunne is more perfect then the Moone a kernell of a nut before the shell yet did not the Church of Rome once reprehend it So that it was cultiued 55 yeares and at length set forth to be openly expounded in the Vniuersitie of Paris Anno Dom. 1255. without open reprehension of any but such as were counted heretikes for their labour As Gulielmus de S. Amore Gerardus Sagurellus c. And finally when the matter was brought before the Pope Anno Dom. 1256. by Gulielmus de S. Amore and other sent from the Vniuersitie of Paris the Pope and the Cardinalls tooke oâ—der that it shoulde be priuily burned and not openly reprehended for shaming their orders Mathaeus Paris Whereby it is clearely proued that the Romish Church hath suffered wicked men damnably to abuse Religion without open or priuie reprehension for the space of 55. yeares and at length without open reprehension when there was no remedie but it must needes be reprehended wherefore if there be any grace in you you will recant The 28. article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 If vnitie in Faith austeritie of life sharpe discipline great penance much fasting large almes godly deuotion obedience to higher powers grauitie and constancie in all cases be not the signes of the true Church IF you aske of true Faith repentance discipline c. these might be signes of the true Church but if you meane vnitie in any faith c as it seemeth by your wordes the Mahometistes and Turkes are the true Church for they haue vnitie in their faith austeritie of life sharpe discipline fasting almes deuotion obedience grauitie Constance c. as much or rather more then the popish church 2 Or be not more in our Church then in their Congregation I recant YOu haue not vnitie in true faith for you knowe not what it meaneth but are vtter enemies vnto it and in your owne principles there is no vnitie whether the Pope or the Councell be superior c. you may as all hypocrites pretende austeritie of life when you are most luxurious riotors as the world knoweth your discipline is not so sharpe but money wil make it blunt you haue great penance but no true repentance you haue much abstinence from meates which is the doctrine of diuills but you fast as litle as other men your almes are large but without faith and therefore sinne your deuotion is blinde and not godly but like her mother Ignorance you are disobedient to Christian Magistrates submitting your selues to Antichrist your grauitie and constancie in all cases is better commended of your self then knowne of other men Wherefore being voyde euen of these which you make the signes of the true Church you are none of the true Church except you recant 3 But if discorde in religion licentiousnes in lyuing contempt of Discipline reiecting of penance lothesomnesse of fasting lacke of zeale and deuotion disobedience to Magistrates sacriledge apostacie breach of vowes vnlawfull lustes wantonnesse in all life and maners if these thinges I say agree not better to the Protestants than the Catholikes or if these be not the plaine signes and fructes of a false church and doctrine I recant WE acknowledge that in the outward face of our church be many hypocrites chargeable with these crimes that you speake of and we yelde our selues guiltie before God of greuous offences that our life is not aunswerable vnto our doctrine Neuerthelesse we doubt not but God for Christ his sake will haue mercy vpon vs But if in life and conuersation we be compared with you Papistes euen the cheefest of your church as Popes Cardinalls Byshoppes Monkes c. We dare approue our life to be honester both before God and men You shall neuer be able to charge vs with such ryot whoredome adulterie incest sodomitry bestiality murther poysoning necromancie apostasie blasphemie c. as both the worlde seeth to ouerflowe in your Prelates at this daye and we are able to bring forth of your owne Cronicles and Hystories to haue ben committed in times past wherefore for very shame leaue of this comparison We meinteine no stewes neither of males nor females we set forth no bookes in commendation of Sodomitry we exact no tribute of Courâ—isans to kepe open bawdrie we priuiledge no writinges that teache men to committe vylanie worthy of a thousand deathes Therefore be not so impudent to charge vs with these crimes aboue the Papistes but rather forsake that filthie whore the mother of all fornication and recant The 29. article conteyneth 8. demandes 1 Let any Protestant in the worlde proue vnto me that their church coulde rightly be called Catholike which was so particular that no man aliue coulde name a place where any such church was WHy might not our Church when it was most hidden be as rightly called Catholike as the Church of the Apostles when it was so particular that it was coÌ„teined in the narrow bondes of Iury for it is not called Catholike because it shoulde be euery where for that it neuer was nor shal be But because that where so euer it be in partes it is one body of christ The Popish church is not in euery parte of the worlde For Mahomets sect is in the greatest parte Many cuntries are Idolaters and the most parte of them that professe the name of Christ are not in the felowship of the Popish church And whereas you saye that no man aliue coulde name the place where it was you make an impudent lye For although it were vnknowen to the Papistes and enemies thereof yet was it knowen to the true members therof It was in Italie wheÌ„
r. praeponeÌ„da 22. in a. r. in the. 24. vvhen r. vvheÌ„ the. 71.20 vvhere rea vvere and the 22. to reade in 78.26 that you â—avv a bastard church r. that you being a bastard church haue 87.34 Commentualls rea Conuentualles 91.32 that he rea then he 92.30 cultiued r. coÌ„tinued 97.1 your reade youres 99.13 there rea therefore 14. vinci reade vincè In the aunswere of a true Christian c. pag. 14. li. 6 for that r. theÌ„ 22.21 conseites r. conserues 23.19 they made a cushioÌ„ reade they made mariage a chushion 25.37 fast reade facte 26.37 canche rea couche 30.35 greatest rea great 31.1 reade instrumentes for the defence 46.33 for reade farre 47.30 sinnes reade sinner â—9 19 praedicate rea praeiudicate 64.37 fauteles r. fruictles 87.6 heauie reade hearie 89.2 as reade or 92.6 bitter reade better 95.31 paltinge r. peltinge 102.15 r. liklihodes nuÌ„bred 121.29 conuenientes reade conuenienter 127.13 r. to death a sinne not c. li. 28.10 rea to 139.34 vnrecoÌ„cyled reade that are reconciled 143.2 you reade her 151.27 hath rea hauing 156.5 can not reade can stande c. 205.29 to his brother rea to his brethren 210.14 faste reade facte â—24 31 reade forsakers 232.38 sorovving r. saying 238.10 clame r. exclame 248.1 an reade any 249.23 praie reade praied 255.19 Tecta reade Tecla 259.37 toti reade hi. 262.7 after vvritinges make a ful poinct l. 10. Troianus reade Traianus 14. BarlauÌ„ r. Barlaam 16. Ephraim r. Ephreem 265.27 and 29. Rhenamus reade Rhenanus 268.36 knavv rea knaue 277.17 shoulde seme reade as it shoulde seme 283.2 Capth r. Chapter 284.30 after decree reade concerning that vvhich vvas not c. 286.31 put out he 299.19 had reade hath 295.11 xemia rea xenia 307.8 mistrusted reade misconstrued 316.2 you vvil r. you vvil not 23. then rea thou 334.19 criall reade triall 335.31 put out in 347.1 same reade sunne right reade light 350.6 r. deceiueth c. 361.16 vnto reade in 361.29 profatam rea profoctam 364.31 vve before reade before vve 378.17 vindicemus reade iudicemus and line 37. either reade other 373.11 stringe r. springe 374.10 Consilio Meleuitano r. CoÌ„cilio Mileuitano 382.19 CommoÌ„ r. Cannon 386.31 degree r. pedigree 391.25 thou reade there 396.1 God reade man. 397.24 hidden r. sudden 399.15 as for vvitnesse reade for vvitnesses 406.6 the matter reade thy matter 409.32 make a full poincte after in deed and line 22. put out the full poincte after describeth 435.16 sparte r. sponte and line 29. superstition reade supposition 441.34 parleis rea paruis 443.2 vvhen rea vvhere 31. li. aliquid r. aliquod 447.2 strife reade stripe 455.33 named r. varied li. 34. shall rea should AN ANSVVER OF A TRVE CHRISTIAN TO A COVNTERFAIT CATHOLIKE The proposition of the Aduersarie CHrist did commit at his departure hence the testimony of that truth for which he died and the conuersion of the Nations to the beleefe in him to the true church of God which then stoode principally and almost onely in the persons of the Apostles and a fewe more that by their preachings and those afterward of their calling the Christian religion might be planted in all Nations beginning at Ierusalem and so proceeding to the coastes and corners of the earth AN ANSVVERE TO THE PROPOSITION I Graunt that our Sauiour Christ at his departure hence commaunded his Apostles as principal members of his Church though not the greatest part of it to preach the doctrine which he confirmed by his death vnto all nations beginning at Ierusalem and so forth according to his saying Goe therefore and teach all Nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost Teaching them to obserue all thinges what so euer I haue commaunded you Matth. 28. Whereuppon I chalenge the Papist that if he be able to proue that the doctrine of poperie is all that trueth and nothing but that trueth for which Christ dyed and which he commaunded the Apostles to teach I will acknowledge the popish church to be the Church of Christ. The first article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 First I aske of the protestant what Church that was which conuerted all these cuntries that be now Christian to the faith of Christ IF you meane by Christians true Christians and by the faith of Christ the true faith of Christ I answere only the true Church of Christ hath had the worde of God and sacraments as meanes which God vseth to subdue al nations vnto the obedience of the faith as was the primitiue Church of the Apostles which hath continued vnto this daye by succession not of personnes and places but of faith and truth wherefore if the Papist can proue that we holde not the same faith and trueth vnto which the Apostles conuerted the nations we refuse to be called the Church or Congregation of Christ. But if by Christians and Christian faith you meane all them that professe the name of Christ in the whole worlde I aunswere that the true Church of Christ did not conuert them all for in Aethiopia there are yet people conuerted by the false apostles which taught circumcision and obseruation of the lawe in which heresie they continue vnto this day and it is manifest by all histories that the nations of the Alanes Gothes and Vandales were first conuerted by the Arrians 2 And let him shew vnto me that euer his Church conuerted any people or lande in the earth from Idolatrie or Gentility or Iudaisme to the true Religion of Christ or that this his fayth was taught to any Nation in steede of true Christianity WE are members of that Church which conuerted all landes in the earth that are conuerted from Idolatry Gentility Iudaisme or heresie to the true Religion of Christ and we affirme that the Apostles taught none other faith in steede of true Christiantie but that which we hold as we are readie to proue by the worde of God And at this daye the most parte of Europe is conuerted from Idolatrie heresie and Antichristianitie vnto the same true faith that we mainteine as in England Scotland Ireland France Germany Denmarke Suetia Bohemia Polonia by publike authoritie in Spaigne and Italie a great numbre vnder persecution and tyrannie Also of the Iewes no small numbre are conuerted to our religion since the rising vp of the Gospell in our dayes 3 Or any Church but the common Catholike Church to haue don that and I recant BEcause you meane by the common Catholike not the true Catholike but the popish church First I denie that euer the popish church conuerted any people to the true faith Secondly I denie that the popish church hath conuerted all nations to the profession of Christ For it is shewed before that the false Apostles and Arians conuerted some nations to the profession of Christes name but yet to false religion And it is also manifest by histories that the Grecians
church affirmeth Luther to be an heretike seeing we know that Luther did not obstinately and malitiously erre in any article of faith concerning the substance of religion we doe not beleue her and specially because she is a partiall witnesse against him whome God vsed to discouer so much of her wickednesse to her great hindrance there is no credit to be geuen vnto her when she goeth about to deface him by sclaunderous names and false accusations Thus I haue shewed these thinges that you require both by good reason and also by scripture Therefore if I may beleue you you recant The fourth article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 I demand what Church hath mightely gonne through borne downe and fully vanquished all heresies in times past aswell against the blessed Trinitie as other Articles of our religion I Aunswere the true Catholike Church hath alwayes resisted all false opinions contrary to the worde of God as her duty was and fought against them with the sworde of the spirite which is the worde of God and by the aide of God obteyned the victorie and triumphed ouer them So did Paule ouercome the Iewes Act. 18. So did the fathers of the primitiue Church from time to time confute heresies by the scriptures and declare in their writinges that by them they are to be confuted for examples sake of a great number I will alleage a few Hylarius writing of the blessed Trinitie against heretikes Lib. 4. sayeth Cessent itaque propriae hominum opiniones neque se vltrà Diuinam constitutionem humanae iudicia extendant Sequamur ergo aduersus irreligiosas impias de Deo institutiones ipsas illas diuinoruÌ„m dictorum authoritates vnumquodque eorum ipso de quo quaeritur auctore tractabimus Wherefore let opinions propre to men geue place and let not mens iudgements stretche them selues further than God his constitution Therefore against these vnreligious and vngodly opinions of God let vs follow the very authority of God his sayings and handle euery one of them by the aide of him about whome the question is Thus Hylarius woulde haue heresies against the Trinitie to be confuted not by mens iudgement but by God his word Basilius magnus very often testifieth that he woulde haue all good thinges proued by the scripture and all euill thinges confuted by the same In his moralles Dist. 26. Euery worde or deede must be confirmed by the testimonie of holy Scripture for the perswasion of good men and the confusion of wicked men And in his treatise of Faith we know that we must now and alwayes auoide euery voice or opinion that is differing from the doctrine of our Lorde And in his short definitions to the first interrogation whether it be lawefull or profitable for a man to permit vnto him selfe to do or say any thinge which he thinketh to be good without the testimonie of the holy Scripture he aunswereth forasmuch as our Sauiour Christ sayeth that the holy Ghost shall not speake of him selfe what madnes is it that any man shoulde presume to beleue any thing without the authoritie of God his worde By these and many other places it is manifest that Basilius woulde haue heresies and false opinions confuted by the holy Scriptures Chrysostome vpon Luke cap. 16. sayeth that the ignorance of the scriptures hath bred heresies and brought in corrupt life yea it hath turned all things vpsidown by which it appeareth by what meanes he would haue heresies kept away namely by knowledge of the scriptures It were to long to reherse all the places of S. Augustine by which his minde appeareth that he would haue the Church sought onely in the scriptures and heretikes confuted onely by the scriptures to whose onely authoritie in many places he professeth that he him selfe will be bounde as Epist. 19. ad Hieronymum Epist. 48. Vincentio Epist. 111. Fortunatiano Epist. 112. to Paulina contra Faustum lib. 11. cap. 5. Contra Cresconium Grammaticum lib. 2. cap. 31. 32. de Baptismo contra Donatistas lib. 2. cap. 2. De meritis remissione peccatorum contra Pelagianos lib. 3. cap. 7. De naturae gratia cap. 61. De gratia Christi contra Pelagium cap. 43. De nuptijs concupiscentia lib. 2. c. 29. In these places S. Augustine preferreth the authority of the Canonicall scripture before all writinges of Catholike Doctors of Byshops of Councells before all customes and traditions But that he would haue the true Church sought onely in the scriptures it is manifest by these places first in his 48. Epistle to Vincentius Nos autem ideo certi sumus neminem se a communione omnium gentium iustè separare potuisse quia non quis quam nostrum in iustitia sua sed in scripturis Diuines quaerit Ecclesiam speaking of the Donatistes he sayeth We are suer that no man could iustly separate him selfe from the communion of all Nations because none of vs seeketh the Church in his owne righteousnesse but in the holy Scriptures So if the Papistes woulde not presume of their owne righteousnesse but seeke the Church of Christ in the scriptures they would not separate them selues from the communion of Christes Church now by God his grace inlarged farther than the Popish church Also in his booke De vnitate Ecclesiae cap. 2. he hath these wordes Inter nos autem Donatistas quaestio est vbi sit Ecclesa Quid ergo facturi sumus in verbis nostris â—am quaesituri an in verbis capitis sui Domini nostri Iesu Christiâ— puto quod in illius potius verbis eam quaerere debemus qui veritas est optimè nouit corpus suum The question is betwene vs and the Donatistes where the Church shoulde be what shall we doe then shall we seeke her in our owne wordes or in the wordes of her heade our Lorde Iesus Christ I thinke we ought rather to seeke her in his words which is the Truth and best knoweth his owne body So the question is at this daye betwen the Papistes and vs where the church is let vs seeke in God his worde there we shall easily finde her To the same intent he speaketh in the third fiueth and sixtenth Chapters of the same treatise Furthermore that he woulde haue heretikes confuted onely by the scriptures he sheweth likewise in many places of his workes for writing against Maximinus the Arian lib. 3. cap. 14. a place commonly and often cited he sayeth but nowe neither must I preiudicially bring forthe the Councell of Nice nor then the Councell of Arimine for neither am I bounden to the authoritie of the one nor you of the other but let matter with matter cause with cause reason with reason contend by authoritie of the scriptures not proper to any but indâ—fferent witnesses to both partes If Augustine would not oppresse the Arrians by the authoritie of the Nicene Councell which was the first and the best generall Councell that euer was but only by the scriptures how much lesse woulde he
heretikes namely the Grecians church all other churches of Asia and Aphrica which vnto this day will not acknowledge her doctrine to be Catholike nor her authoritie to be lawefull Wherefore seeing the Popish church neither hath confuted those that are heretikes in deed nor subdued those whom she counteth to be heretikes if you be a good as your worde you recant The fiueth article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 Againe what Church is that which hath exercised by Christes appointement Discipline vpon offendors in all degrees ONely the Church of Christ by Christes appointement hath exercised true discipline vpon offendors Although by meanes of persecution she could not alwayes practise the same as she would 2 And for that purpose hath continually executed lawes and Canons Ecclesiasticall with Excommunication Degradation suspension and such like THe Church of Christ only hath had lawful authority to exercise discipline but as it is said before she hath not continually practised the same because she could not being hindered by persecution and dispersion Concerning excommunication she hath practised it according to the word of God and against such offendors as the scripture iudgeth worthy of that seuere punishment As for degradation and suspension it may be doubted what you meane by them If you vnderstand by degradation that such persons as the Church hath tried vnmeet either for doctrine or manners to execute the office of preaching and ministring the sacraments she hath displaced and reiected from that charge she hath also practised drgradation And if you meane by suspension that when the accusation of a mans doctrine or life was vncerteine that she hath willed him to cease from executing his office vntill his cause were tried either good or euill she hath also vsed suspension but if by degradation and suspension you meane those foolish and wicked ceremonies which the popish church now vseth and so termeth I deny that euer the true Church of Christ had to do with such degradations and suspensions 3 Proue me this geere to procede from Protestants or from any other Church than the Catholike and I recant IT is proued before that true discipline belongeth to the true Church wherof we are a part which Church is sufficiently proued to be the spouse of Christ because she is ruled in all thinges by his onely voice And therefore all congregations of heretikes which departe from the true worde of God though they take vpon them to exercise discipline by excommunication or otherwise it is not to be regarded and lest of all the Popish church where remaineth nothing of discipline and excommunication but the very names for what call you popish discipline is not that it which they vse in Lent whisking men on the heades and women on the handes with white roddes which they them selues call discipline Or is it the seuere punishment that they vse against offendors by excommunication suspension interdighting c. First it is manifest they haue no excommunication by Christes appointment for neither it is executed by the persons appointed by Gods worde nor against such offendors only as God his word appointeth for wheras our Sauiour Christ appointeth the order of that discipline to the Congregation of such as are wise godly and carefull of mens health which first shal labor by fatherly admonition and wholesome exhortation to bring the offendors to repentance whome if they refuse to heare they are to be reputed for hethens and publicanes the Pope contrariwise referreth the same to profane and vnreligious officers which are more desirous to gaine the fees of absolution than by bringing the party to repentance to saue him from excommunication Moreouer whereas by Gods worde excommunication is the last and most greuous punishment that the Church can enioyne against any of whom there is any hope of saluation and therefore ought not to be practised but for haynous offences the Popish church maketh it serue for euery trifling matter yea for pettie debts and all then commeth in interdightings suspensions of places as churches and townes yea whole realmes for one mans faulte what likelinesse hath this vnto the discipline of Christes church set forth in the scriptures and practised by the fathers with what face can you Papistes affirme they haue discipline in their Church whē all penaunces for most horrible offences may be bought out for money and an open market thereof set vp at Rome with the prices rated what men must pay for euery thing that they buye as absolution for him that hath killed his father or mother brother sister or wife Turones 4. Ducat 1. Ca. line 5.8 For an heretike before he haue abiured 36. Turones and 9. ducates For a witche 6. Turones 2. ducates For a priest that is a Sodomite or hath lyen with brute beastes 36. Turones 9. ducates For a nonne that hath bene a common whore both within and without her Abby with dispensation that she may be able to receiue any dignitie in her order yea to be Abbesse 36. Turones 9. ducates And so for all other offences with dispensations inhibitions rehabilities licences relaxations commutations confirmation perinde Valeres Marcamas and the deuill and all for money wherefore except you be to impudent to acknowledge this to be Christian discipline be as good as your promise and recant The sixth article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 Againe from what Church did all the solemne ceremonies and obseruations all festiuall dayes all fastes all distinctions and varieties of seruice by diuersities of seasons and times of the yeare proceede FIrst you must vnderstande that we detest and abhorre all your beggarly ceremonies which you counte holy and solemne obseruations for we know that God is not to be worshipped with such thinges but that the true worshippers must worship him in spirit veritie Iohn 4. And seeing we know God or rather are knowen of him we will not regarde the weake and beggarly elementes because they are destitute of God his worde which onely i◠able to geue them strength and estimation as for your festiuities in the honour of creatures we doe likewise abhorre them ▪ we honour the Sainctes as S. Augustine sayeth for imitation but we do not worship them for Religion De vera Religione cap. 55. Where he also saith Quare honoramus eos charitate non seruitute We honor them with loue and not with seruice And as he doth often affirme that it is Idolatry to builde churches in the honour of Sainctes so is it as great Idolatry to institute festiuall dayes in the fauour of the same Sainctes As for the festiuall dayes that were vsed in the primitiue Church although they might haue bene omitted without any hurt of Christian Religion yet were they not kept in the honour of creatures as they are of the Papistes but only for the memorie of the Martyrs and other Saincts that their good life might be followed Your fastes are also abhominable for they are nothing else but abstinence from meates created of God to be receiued with
be Sainctes in heauen Let the Prince make you aunswere for the continuance of such callēders for we haue not to do with them Neuerthelesse because you speake of a Callendar that is vsed euery where you declare that you haue small experience in Callendars for euery cuntry hath them diuers in most dayes except holy dayes and in some cuntry Callendars such dayes are festiuall to those Saincts that haue not their names in Callendars of other cuntries yea it may be doubted whether they haue their names in the booke of life If you sawe a Bohemians Callendar perhaps if you shoulde see Iohn Hus and Ierom of Prage which your church condemned for heretikes and haue as solemne feastes in the Callender as Peter and Paule wherefore we acknowledge those to be Sainctes in deede not whose names are continued in the Callendars of men but are written in the booke of life of the Lambe that was slaine from the beginning of the worlde Apoc. 13. 2 And if it can be proued by any man of the Protestancy that these were either of the Protestants Congregation or beleefe when they were aliue IT is sufficiently proued against you of the Papistrie that all they whome we acknowledge to be Sainctes in heauen are members of the same mysticall bodie of Christ that we are and hold the onely foundation that we hold which is Iesus Christ and although some of them builded straw and stubble vpon the same foundation yet the Lorde hath not imputed it vnto them But wheras the Patriarches Prophetes and Apostles were cheefe lightes and pillers of the church of Christ the daye is yet to come and euer shal be that all you of the Papistrie shal be able to charge vs with one pointe of our faith contrary to the doctrine of the Patriarches Prophetes and Apostles 3 Or canonized and allowed for Sainctes by the Protestantes Church when they were deade or by any other Church then I recant OVr Church doth take all them that shew the fruicts of a liuely faith to be Sainctes while they be aliue as well as after their death and we say with Dauid All my delight is in the Sainctes that are in the earth Psal. 16. and with S. Paule VVe labour to comprehend with all Sainctes what is the length breadth depth and heigth and to know the loue of christ Ephes. 3. Finally the scripture teacheth vs to call all them that are sanctified in the bloude of Christ and called to the felowship of the Gospell holy and Sainctes of God. 1. Cor. 1. Ephes. 1. c. Wherefore your Popish church doth great iniury to the Sainctes of God first because she doth not so accompt them while they liue and secondly because she referreth the canonization of them only to the Pope who not for their holy life maketh them Sainctes but for the holy honger of golde as appeare by Pope Iuly 2. who woulde not canonize king Henry the sixt at the request of king Henry the seuenth vnder an vnreasonable summe of money If that summe of money had bene paide he shoulde haue bene a sainct though he had not deserued not for his vertue And because that summe of money was not paide he might not be canonized although his godlinesse neuer so much deserued Againe of what force your Canonization is to be esteemed we may learne by a fact of Pope Boniface the 8. who condemned digged vp and burned the bodie of Hermannus in Ferraria 30. yeares after his buriall who had bene worshipped for a sainct aboue 20. yeares before as witnesseth Platina and other Gregorie the seuenth canonized Pope Liberius which was an Arrian as S. Hieronym testifieth Moreouer if I shoulde likewise demande of you what Pope canonized Peter Paule and the rest of the Apostles yea most of the Martyrs of the primitiue Church you shall neuer be able to shew me either what Pope did it or that any Pope did it For seeing none may canonize but the Pope in your church and you can not proue that the Pope hath canonized the Apostles and cheefe Martyrs you can not proue that your church hath canonized the Apostles and principall Martyrs But it is manifest that your canonization is taken from the heathen Senate of Rome which chalenged authority to make Gods whome they them selues thought best And if I shoulde rippe vp the most parte of those Sainctes which haue bene canonically canonized by the Pope it were an easie matter to finde them heretikes traitors Necromancers Whoremongers and whores as you may reade in Bales Votaries aboundantly beleuing his reporte no farther than he alleageth his Author where you maye finde it Wherefore it were wisedome for you not to depend vpon the Pope his Canonization but vpon God his approbation and to recante The 8. article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 And because Christ as S Paule sayeth hath established in his Church some Apostles some Prechers some Teachers and Doctors euen vntill his comming againe I aske the Protestant what Church that is which is able to shew proue the continuance and vse of the saide functions euer sence Christes time by plaine accompt of orderly Succession I Aunswere the Papist that Christ hath geuen to his Church some Apostles some Prophetes some Euangelistes some Pastors and Teachers Ephes. 4. and 1. Cor. 12. And we are able to shew proue that we continue in that vnitie of faith and knowledge of the Sonne of God for which ende such offices were ordeyned But whereas you require that we should shew you the continuance of those functions by orderly succession from Christes his time vntill our dayes you declare how small skill you haue in vnderstanding the scriptures for the offices of Apostles Euangelistes and Prophetes were not appoincted to continue alwayes in the Church but for a time vntill the Gospell had taken roote in the worlde Moreouer whereas you requier an orderly succession according to persons or places you are neuer able to proue that any such thing was promised to the Church that we should shew you the performance thereof in our Church Otherwise we doubt not but God hath alway stirred vp some faithfull teachers that haue instructed his Church in the necessarie poinctes of Christian Religion Although the worlde and the church of Antichrist did not alwayes see them 2 And is able to name you by the histories of all ages the notable personnes of all the forsaide states in their gouernment and ministerie AGaine I answere you that you are not able to name me any text of scripture by which you can proue that al these offices must haue perpetual cōtinuance in the church of Christ nor yet that any of them should kepe an ordinarie succession of place or persons But contrariwise seeing it was prophecied that the church should flie into the wildernes that is be driuen out of the sight and knowledge of the wicked and be so narrowly persecuted of the Romish Antichrist for a longe season it were a token our church were not the true
Nouatians Socrates testifieth he could doe not good with them because they enuied his ambition saying that the bishoprike of Rome like as of Alexandria was long before growen beyonde the bondes of priesthood into foreine lordship Lib. 7. cap. 11. By these examples it is plaine that although the mysterie of iniquitie beganne to worke in Victor Cornelius Stephanus Anastasius Innocentius Zozimus Bonifacius and Caelestinus yet it was reproued by some godly men as Irenaeus Polycrates Dionysius Alexandrinus Cyprianus the Councell of Aphrica and Socrates the Historiographer 4 VVhether all nations sodenly and in one yeare were moued to the doctrine of the Papistes no one man of all their true Church neither preaching teaching writing nor attempting any thing against it or making mention of it WHen the scripture telleth vs that the mysterie of iniquitie preparing for the generall defection and reuelation of Antichrist wrought euen in S. Paules time 2. Thess. 2. it is foly to aske whether sodenly and in one yere all Religion was corrupted And yet all nations neuer consented to the doctrine of the Papistes for as it hath bene often saide the Greeke church and other Orientall churches hath neuer receiued the Popish religion in many cheefe pointes and especially in acknowledging the Popes authoritie what preaching teaching and writing hath bene against it is shewed before and shal be more declared hereafter 5 VVhether sodenly all bookes of seruice were altered NO forsoothe but by litle and litle in the Latine Church as for the Greeke Orientall Churches neuer receyued nor vsed your Latine seruice bookes 6 VVhether in a moment the Masse was saide in steede of other Apostolike Communion WHen Durande your owne doctor sheweth what Pope sewed on euery patche that belongeth to your Masse it were foly for vs to say it came in sodenly and impudencie in you to affirme that it came whole from the Apostles which was so long a framing in so many peeces 7 VVhether men beganne sodenly to praye for the soules departed FIrst it is manifest that men had no warraÌ„t out of God his worde to pray for the dead and it can not be proued for 200 yeares after Christ by any credible author that it was vsed in the Church wherefore it is certeine that it was first planted by the deuill as were other abuses And because it hath a pretence of Charitie deceyued simple men the sooner Yet did it not so preuaile in the primitiue Church that they durst define what profit the soules receyued thereby for Chrysostome in his 3. Homelie vpon the first Chapter of the Epist. to the Philippians sayeth Procuremus eis aliquid auxilij modici quidem attamen iuuemus eos Let vs procure them some helpe small helpe truely but yet let vs helpe them Likewise Augustine in the 9. booke and 13. Chapter of his confessions where he prayeth for his father and mother declareth how vncertaine he was of that matter one while he feareth the danger of euery soule that dieth in Adam An other while he beleueth that they neede not his prayer yet he desireth God to accept the same and moue other men to remember them in their prayers Thus it is necessary that they wander which leane vnto mens traditions without the worde of God. 8 Sodenly required the helpe of Sainctes in heauen WHether sodenly or by litle and litle men were brought to such superstition that they required helpe of Sainctes it maketh litle matter seeing it is contrary to the worde of God and the example of the primitiue Church for 200. yeares after christ Yet it is to be thought that it grew vp as other errors by litle and litle And S. Augustine in his booke De cura pro mortuis agenda wearieth him selfe and in the ende can define nothing in certeine how the Sainctes in heauen should heare the prayers of men on earth Such doubtfulnesse they fall into that leaue the word of God and leaue to traditions 9 Sodenly the tongue of common prayers altered FIrst the Greeke church other churches both in Asia Aethiopia neuer receiued the Latine tongue but to this day continue in their vulgare tongue The Westerne Church for the most parte all spake and vnderstoode Latine as the sea coast of Aphrica Italye Fraunce Spayne Britayne as for Germany was lately conuerted to the faith Then seeing they spake Latine and had their common prayer in Latine The tongue of their common prayer was not altered but their speach was altered from the tongue of their common prayer and this was not sodainely for it was more than twelue hundred yeares after Christ before it waâ— taken for a Catholike doctrine that common prayer should be vsed in latine S. Augustine preached in latine all the people vnderstoode him and that they might the better vnderstand him he doth vse such phrases and termes which were not pure latine but commonly vsed of the people as Ossum and Foenerare c. But soone after his time when the Gothes and Vandalles oueranne the Empire the latine tongue which before was not pure among the people began daily to be more corrupted and yet remained after a sort latine vntill the yeare of our Lorde 768. when Charles the great began to râ—igne in France and long after for within the time of his reigne which was 47. yeares a Councell was holden at Turon in France what yeare it is not certeyne but it is probable that in the latter ende of his empire in which it was decreed that euery bishop should haue certeine homilies Et easdem quisque apertè studeat transferre in rusticam Romanam linguam aut Theotiscam quo facilius cuncti possint intelligere quae dicuntur Turon 3. cap. 17. And that euery one studye to translate them plainly into the rusticall Romane tongue or into the Theotisce tongue that all men may more easily vnderstand what is sayd By this Canon it is euident that at this time the people vnderstood the Latine tongue though it were very rude and rustical And where the Canon prescribeth the same homilies to be translated either into the rude latine tongue or into the Theotisce tongue Although this word Theotisca seeme to be corrupted yet it is most certeine that they meant Dutch tongue for as much as Carolus magnus had a great part of Germanie vnder his dominion and the Germanes as neuer throughly subdued by the Romanes neuer throughly receiued the latine tongue Yet it is manifest that they vnderstoode their common prayer in the latine tongue though not perfectly because the Canon sayth Quo facilius c. That all men may more easely vnderstand signifying that they vnderstood the pure latine tongue though hardely and not perfectly About the yeare of our Lorde 813. the knowledge of the latine tongue beganne more and more to weare awaye from amongest the common people which when the bishops perceiued they decreed in the Councell of Magunce cap. 25. that euery Sondaye and holy daye there shoulde be a
sermon in such sorte that the common people might vnderstand it and in the 45. Canon they decreed that euery Christian shoulde learne the Creede and the Lorde his prayer Et qui aliter non potuerit vel in sua lingua hoc discat that is And he that can not yet let him learne it in his owne tongue Whereby they declare that they desier to reteine the latine tongue still but rather than the people shoulde be ignorant they commande them to learne their prayers and beleefe in their mother tongue Also by the 43. Canon wherein they iudge that no preeste can saye Masse alone it appeareth that the people commonly vnderstood the latine seruice for they aske how he shoulde saye Dominus vobiscum and admonish the people to lifte vp their heartes and diuers like sayinges where there is none by him but him selfe Nowe if the people vnderstoode not these sayinges it were all one whether they were present or absent Also in the Councell of Rhenes holden in Fraunce about the same time the like decree was made cap. 15. that bishops studie to preache sermons and homelies of the holy fathers so that all men maye vnderstand according to the property of their tongue Finally in the Councell of Laterane holden vnder Pope Innocent the third Anno Dom. 1215. in which Councell transubstantiation was first established the 9. chapter it was plainely decreed that forasmuch as within one citie and diocesse people of diuers languages be mingled together hauing vnder one Faith diuers rites and maners we streightly commande that the bishops of such cities and diocesses prouide able men which according to the diuersitie of their rites and languages celebrate vnto them the diuine seruice and minister the sacramentes instructing them both by worde and example Hereby it appeareth that when the latine tongue was either almost or altogether growen out of the common peoples vnderstandings order was taken that common prayers should be sayed and sacramentes ministred in the mother tongue of euery nation But the bishops which shoulde haue seene it put in execution either negligently omitted it or willingly refused to doe it because it was more for their profit to kepe the people in blinde ignorance So thus I haue shewed that sodenly the tongue of common prayer was not altered 10 Tell me what yeare of our Lorde vnder what Emperour vnder what Pope by whome these thinges were wrought vpon what occasion this marueillous mutation was made WHo can tell the originall of euery blind custome and peuish tradition of euery olde error and foolish fashion it is sufficient to shew that these thinges haue no grounde in the scripture of God they were not taught by Christ and his Apostles nor receiued in the church that followed immediatly after them and then we are bolde to say with Tertullian This preiudice there is against all heresies how soeuer they came vp or when soeuer they sprange vp That is true that was first and that is false that is latter therefore from the beginning it was not vsed to praye for the deade nor to the deade from the beginning common prayer was not in an vnknowen tongue Wherefore prayer for the deade and to the deade with prayer in a strange tongue are false when soeuer they beganne or how long soeuer they continued 11 VVho preached against it what historie maketh mention of it who of all your Pastors preached against it was God his Church so voide of the spirit of Trueth and strength that euen then when it most florished it had none that durst open against â—uch corruption of religion as it entred in and when it might soone haue bene repressed BEfore you demande what yeare the religion of the Papistes came in and whether it came in sodenly and as though we shoulde aunswere that it came in sodainely you demande who preached against it c. This is to fight with your owne shadowe for we say not that it came in sodainely but that it entred by small degrees at the first and therefore was lesse espied by the true Pastors especially being earnestly occupied against great heresies and open aduersaries that sought to beate downe the cheefe foundations of Christian faith as the Valentinians Marcionistes Manichees Arrians Sabellians and such like monsters So when Satan had gotten in one foote by such craftie pollitie he neuer rested vntill he had thrust in his whole bodie with the power of Antichrist 12 If it coulde not shew me then what yeare of the Lorde this mutation was made and who of all the true preachers did with stand this doctrine SO often as you demande one thinge so often must I aunswere after one sorte this mutation was not all in one yeare nor in one hundreth yeares nor in one thousand of yeares for transubstantiation no small article of your religion was not decreed vntill the yeare of God 1215. what preachers haue withstoode your doctrine at diuers times are declared before in the aunswere to the 8. Article 2. demande 13 Or note the name of him that euer first preached any article of our doctrine and if we note you not by their names euery one of your Capitaines and the seuerall errors that they tought and the time and the yeare when they arose against the former receyued trueth and the Councells in which they were orderly condemned if I saye this can be done of your side towarde vs or if we doe it not for improofe of your Church and religion I recant I Haue noted in the answere to the 6. article 3. demande the names of diuers heretikes that first preached diuers articles of your religion and further I note vnto you Pelagius and Coelestius which tought that free will without grace coulde doe somewhat towardes eternall saluation and that grace was geuen according to merite which article you teach also with culler of a distinction De congruo condigno which is a meere cauill for God is as much bounde vnto congruitie as to dignitie or worthinesse and as he can doe nothing against worthinesse no more can he doe any thing against congruitie which is a kinde of Equitie And whereas you bragge to note vnto vs euery one of our Capitaines c. except you note vnto vs the Patriarches Prophets Apostles Euangelistes and Christ himselfe you shall neuer be able to performe that you promise for we teache nothing but the eternall trueth of God wherefore we refuse not to be counted heretikes if you can proue that we holde any one article of faith contrarie to the scripture you may perchaunce note the names of them that preaching the trueth of our doctrine against your receyued errors were accounted of the world for heretikes but you must proue that their opinions are contrarie to the worde of God or els all your labour is in vaine we confesse also that some articles of our doctrine were taught by heretikes as there was neuer no heresie which had not many thinges common with true Religion but yet in
God being a spirite is not worshipped with outward pompe but with spirituall and inwarde reuerence And as for other furniture that is necessary was decreed to the Church by the Emperour Constantine and his successors that were of our Church before the reuelatiō of Antichrist Notwithstāding the Church was in better case before such furniture was graunted than it was since Therefore it is a small reason to chalenge the Church of Christ by outwarde furniture 2 VVhat Churches did you builde for your assemblies and seruice OVr assemblies were kept in secret places long time after Christes Ascension in most cuntries that were subiect to the Romane empire Wherefore the building of materiall churches proueth nothing at all the builders to be members of the mystical Church that is the body of christ Howbeit in such realmes and cuntries where the faith of Christ was receiued by publike authoritie as in this lande of Brytaine there were churches builded as our Chronicles declare And when Constantinus had geuen peace to the Church he also builded Oratories and great Synagoges called Basilicas for our assemblies and seruice 3 VVhat Bishoprickes for the gouernment of the Church did you finde AS the church continued longe without materiall churches so also without large possessions for the lyuing of bishops yet in Brytish Church our histories make mention that the possessions and places of the Pagane Flamines and Archiflamines were conuerted to the vse of Ecclesiastical bishops and archbishops so soon as Lucius the king receiued the faith Also the same histories do testifie that when Augustine came into Britayn there were still 7. bishops and one archbishop among the Britaines And in the Romane Empier Constantinus and other Christian Emperors appointed great possessions for the mainteyning of the ministers of the Church 4 VVhat Vniuersities Schooles or Colledges did you euer erect THe Church of God hath alwayes had schooles or Vniuersities for the mainteinance of godly learning For the first Colledges of monkes in solitary places were nothing els but Colledges of studentes that were after as occasion serued taken to serue in the Church as appereth by Chrysostome in his booke De Sacerdotio where he sheweth that Basilius who was a Monke with him was taken by violence and made a minister of the church as he him selfe was afterwarde Also in the bishops house was a colledge of studentes and our histories testifie that at Bangor in Wales was a great Vniuersitie of learned men Also of late dayes you may heare that diuerse Vniuersities Scholes and Colleges are erected by Protestants in Germanie and other contries that haue receiued the gospel As at Wittemberge Geneua Zuriche Conigsperge in Prussia c. 5 Name one Church not builded in all fashions as well for the making of the chancells the forme of the aultars the vse of the chalices the signification of the vestiments as also for the speciall intent of the builders thereof Name one of them in the whole Church of Christ either erected for your Faith Church seruice or not prepared in all sorts for catholike practises Proue vnto me that any of all those thinges were euer prouided for any other seruice and Religion then ours or that they be monuments of any other Fayth and Church then the common Catholike and I recant HEre are many wordes to litle purpose What if it were graunted that all churches that now remaine were builded by Papistes and for popish vses what had you wonne thereby The same chalenge might the Idolaters haue made to the Apostles Shew vs a temple in all the worlde that was not builded by Idolaters and to mainteyne Idolatrie Certeinly they could shew none when the Temple of Ierusalem was destroyed But for all your bragges we are able to shewe that such Churches as were builded by true Christians were not builded to such ende as yours are for they were all builded in the honour of God and the most of yours in the honour of creatures for wheras you haue one Church in the honour of Christ you haue neare a thousand in the honour of Sainctes For Basilius magnus in his 141. epistle proueth the holy Ghost to be God because he hath a Temple For Omne Templum Dei Templum est Euery temple is the temple of god Also Didymus in his booke De spiritu sancto which S. Ieronym translateth vseth the same reason and to the same purpose S. Augustine in the same matter is very plentifull as in his booke De vera Religione cap. 55. speaking of the Sainctes he sayth Quare honoramus eos charitate non seruitute nec eis templa construimus c. Wherfore we honour them with loue and not with seruice neither doe we build temples vnto them for they wil not be so honored of vs because they know that we our selues when we are good are the temples of the highest In this saying beside his iudgement for building of temples note that he will not haue Sainctes to be honored with seruice which he calleth seruitus and is the same that dulia is contrary to the Papistes which will worship them with seruice called dulia or seruitus Also in his 174. epistle to Pascentius he sayth the holy Ghost could not haue our bodies to be tēples except he were God And in his Enchiridion ad Laurentium cap. 56. he sayth howe should he not be God which hath a temple Also in the 8. booke cap. 27. De ciuitate Dei. Nec tamen nos ijsdem martyribus templa c. he sayeth Christians builde no temples vnto Martyrs which were to make them gods And in the 22 booke cap. 10. De ciuitate Dei. Nos autem Martyribus nostris non templa sicut dijs sed memorias sicut hominibus mortuis quorum apud Deum viuunt spiritus fabricamus Nec ibi erigimus altaria in quibus sacrificemus martyribus sed vni Deo martyrum nostro sacrificium immolamus ad quòd sacrificium sicut homines Dei qui mundum in eius confessione vicerunt suo loco ordine nominantur non tamen à sacerdote qui sacrificat inuocantur Deo quippe non ipsis sacrificat quamuis in memoria sacrificet eorum quia Dei sacerdos est non illorum Ipsum verò sacrificium corpus est Christi quod non offertur ipsis quia hoc sunt ipsi that is We truely do not build temples to our martyrs as vnto gods but memories as vnto dead men whose soules liue with god Neither doe we there set vp aultars in which we should sacrifice vnto the martyrs but to God onely which is God both of the martyrs and of vs doe we offer sacrifice at which sacrifice they are named in their place and order as men of God which haue ouercome the world in his confession yet are they not called vpon by the Priest that doth sacrifice for he offereth sacrifice to God and not to them although he doe sacrifice in their memorie because he is the Priest of
God and not of them and the sacrifice is the body of Christ which is not offered vnto them because they them selues are the same Here also beside building of churches note that no sacrifice ought to be offered to Martyrs but prayer is a sacrifice therefore it ought to be offered onely to god Secondly that Martyrs were not called vpon in tyme of the sacrifice but onely named for remembrance Thirdly that Altares were not builded in the honor of Martyrs or other Sainctes as they be in Popish churches as our Ladies altar S. Peters altar S. Laurences altar c. Fourthly that the bodie of Christ which he sayeth was the sacrifice that was offered was not the naturall body of Christ but his mysticall bodie because he sayeth the Martyrs and it are all one whereby it is manifest that he meaneth the sacrifice of thankes giuing offered to God for the redemption of his church by the death of Christ. Wherfore if this one place were well wayed it will interpret and aunswere all places of the auncient doctors where mention is made of sacrificing the body of Christ at the time of the communion But to returne to building of churches the same Augustine contra Maximinum Arrianum Lib. Titul 11. hath these wordes Nunc si templum alicui sancto angelo excellentissimo de lignis lapidibus faceremus anathematizar emin a veritate Christi ab Ecclesia Dei quoniam creaturae exhiberemus eam seruitutem quae vni tantum debetur Deo Si ergo sacrilegi essemus faciendo templum cuicunque creaturae quomodo non est Deus verus cui non templum facimus sed nos ipsi templum sumus that is If we shoulde builde a temple of wodde and stones to any holy and most excellent Angel shoulde we not be accursed from the Trueth of Christ and from the Church of God because we should shew that seruice vnto a creature which is due onely vnto God Therefore if we shoulde be sacrileges by making a temple to any creature how is he not true God to whome we doe not make a temple but we our selues are a temple If this be true how be not the Papistes accursed from the Trueth of Christ and from the Church of God which builde and vpholde churches to Angells as S. Michaels S. Gabriels c So that to builde churches as Papistes doe is church robbing or sacrilege Furthermore whereas you will vs to name one church whose chancell is not builded in all fashions to serue poperie First it is manifest that the first Churches which were builded for Christians had not the same fashion of chancels and other partes that most churches haue in Englande for that purpose reade the Panegyricall oration made before Paulinus byshop of Tyrus Euseb. lib. 10. cap. 4. In which is described the fashion of that church builded in that citie farre vnlike the moste parte of churches at this day in all partes and specially in the chaÌ„cel which was in the middest of that church a place compassed in with grates or wodden latesses called Cancelli wherof this worde chancel is deriued and the aultar stoode in the middest of it wherof some similitude remaineth yet in olde Cathedrall churches Contrariwise your chancells in most churches be at the East ende and the aulter hard at the wall there was also but one alter in that church but you in euery church must haue many it is certaine also in their church the Ministers and Deacons stoode rounde about the table or aâ—lter but so they can not about your aultars except some of them stande on the toppe of the wall or in the windowe Moreouer if you marke the most parte of olde churches in Englande you shall plainely see that the chancells are but additions builded sence the churches of likelihoode by the parsons that disdained to haue their place in the middest of the people as the olde manner was Also you may see some churches builded rounde as at London the Temple and another is at Cambridge of the same fashioÌ„ And some churches haue the steple at the Est ende very vnhandsomely for placing of the roode lofte Againe many churches haue crosse Isles in which the people can not see the chancell nor the high aultar which argueth that there was no vse of such chancells when they were builded For such churches as are latelie erected haue the chancell and church all of one building and are made of such fashion that men maye see the highe aultar in euery parte of them Beside this in the Orientall church as their ceremonies are diuers from yours so no doubt the fashion of their temples differeth from yours As for chalices the church in the beginning was coÌ„tent with wodden cuppes and then came Zepherinus and brought in the vse of glasses Acacius Amidenus is commended for selling the golden and siluer vessels of the church to redeme captiues Socrat. lib. 7. cap. 21. S. Ambrose also Offic. lib. 2. cap. 8. sayth the church hath golde not to kepe it but to be bestowed for necessarie vses for which it is lawfull to breake melt and sel euen the holyest vessells of all But of your church it is true that one said of olde time ye had wodden chalices and golden priestes but now you haue golden chalices and wodden priestes your vestimentes are of as good stuffe as your chalices The olde church knew none such but as your owne Authors write when they wente to celebrate they changed the affection of their minde rather than the garmentes of their body as Antoninus witnesseth of Fulgentius Howbeit we are content that your church by her gorgeous garments as well as by other thinges shoulde declare it selfe to be that woman which is described to be clothed in purple golde perles and such like ornamentes Apoc. 17. Finally wheras you will vs to name one church that for the speciall intent of the builders was not prepared in all sortes for Popish practises Although I could name many yet for examples sake I name Pantheon a church in Rome prepared by the speciall and onely intent of the builders foâ— Cybelle the great mother of the gods and for all false gods of the heathen which now is called the church of Mary and Alhalowes Then this church with many other in Rome and other places being monuments of the faith and religion of the Paganes and not of yours except yours and theirs be all one as they are very like you are bounde by your promise to recant The 15. article conteyneth in effect 3. demandes 1 Againe name any one company of men in the Christen world that in all articles of Faith be in one meaning and belefe IT is an easie matter to name diuers companies agreeing in one meaning beliefe as the church of the Grecians the church of the Aethiopians the church of the Chaldeans Moscouites c. But especially the whole company of Protestantes in Europe doe agree in all necessary articles of true faith by
which we are iustified 2 Or in thinges where they doubt be contented to submit their seuerall meaninge to the iudgement of their Superiours THe Greeke church in doubtes will be ruled by the Patriarch of Constantinople and so will the rest of the Orientall churches by their cheefe Patriarches and bishops And the Protestants in Europe will also be ruled by their Superiours so farre as their superiors are ruled by Gods his worde 3 And to that communion and companie wherof they be name any companie of men agreeing and thus humbly affected in Christes Religion sauing the blessed fellowship and members of the Catholike communion and I recant TO the communion and company of the Grecians I name the Moscouites and Russians agreeing in Religion and so humbly affected and these are not of the fellowship that you call the Catholike communion Among the Protestants to the church of Saxonie I name the church of Dennemarcke or to the church of Helâ—etia the church of France or to the church of England the church of Scotlande but so that none of these allow any consent or submission but to the Truth which must be tried onely by God his worde And seeing none of these are of the Popish communioÌ„ if your promise be any thing worth you must recant The 16. article conteyneth one demande and one chalenge Furthermore name any one man that is confessed on both sides by the iudgement of the world to be holy and learned a member of the true Church in what age soeuer you list sence Christes time and proue him to haue bene in all articles of Faith of the Protestants meaninge SEeing you geue so large scope I will name S. Paule who I thinke is coÌ„fessed on both sides to be holy and learned and a member of the true Church whome I can proue by his writinges that in all articles of faith he taught the same which we beleeue And for triall of this because it woulde requier a whole volume if I shoulde proue euery particular article wherein we dissent from you Papistes If you will name an article wherein we agree not with S. Paule If I be not able to proue that we agree with him in the meaninge thereof I will reuoke that article and agree with you therein Yea if I bring not the aduersaries them selues to acknowledge in the ende him to be wholy against their doctrine in diuers of articles of great importance and therefore that he coulde not be of their church I recant YOu shall neuer bring vs neither in the beginning nor in the end to acknowledge that S. Paule is against vs in any article of our Faith but we agree wholy with him Neuerthelesse I know what you meane will not be afraide to vtter Forasmuch as immediatly after the Apostles time corruption entred into the Church which was hardly kept out while they liued as we maye learne by the Epistle to the Corinthians you thinke that we dare not depende vpon any one mans iudgement and therein you are not deceiued for we must depende onely vppon Gods worde But where you saye there is none but he dissenteth from vs in diuers articles of great importance you saye vntruely for you are not able to proue that Iustinus Martyr or Irenaeus two of the most ancient authenticall writers that the Church next vnto the Apostles had are against vs in any point of doctrine wherein we differ from you Yet are there certaine errors in them which neither you nor we allow as is touched before in the answere to the 11. article 1. deman But they are both wholly against you in diuers articles of your doctrine and namely in transubstantiatioÌ„ which is one of the greatest articles of Poperie as Irenaeus in the 34. cap. of his 4. booke Contra haereses Quemadmodum enim qui est a terra panis c.. Euen as the breade â–ª which is of the earth after it hath receyued the inuocation of God is not now common breade but the Eucharistie or breade of thankes geuing consisting of two thinges earthly heauenly so our bodies receyuing the Eucharistie are not now corruptible hauing hope of resurrection Here you see plainely that Irenaeus affirmeth the sacrament after consecration to consist of the earthly substance of breade which maye better be vnderstoode when we know that he reasoneth against such heretikes as denied the world to be made by God saying that he woulde neuer haue made so great a mysterie of bread which is a creature of the world if the worlde had not bene made by him Iustinus in his second Apologie to the Emperour 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. We doe not receiue these thinges as common breade and a common cuppe but euen as Iesus Christ our Sauiour was incarnate by the worde of God and tooke vpon him flesh and bloude for our saluation So we are taught that this meate for which thankes is geuen by the worde of prayer from him of which our fleshe and bloude are nourished by transmutation is the fleshe and bloude of Iesus that was incarnate Here he plainely affirmeth that the substance of the Sacrament is turned into the nourishment of our bodies Therfore it remaineth still after the consecration The other writers of later yeares as they haue some errors which neither you nor we doe allow in them so we are not afraid to confesse that they haue some corruption wherby you may seeme to haue colour of defence for inuocation of Sainctes prayer for the dead and diuerse superstitious and superfluous ceremonies yet not so addict to these nor ioyned with such absurdities as yours are But for the chiefe pointes of Christian Religion and the foundation of our faith that is for the honour of God the offices of Christ Redemption Iustification Satisfaction the fruites of Christ his passion Grace faith workes authoritie of God his word authoritie of the Pope reall presence transubstantiation Communion in both kindes Images c. the most approued writers Tertullian Cyprian Origen Epiphanius Hilarius Chrysostomus Ieronymus Ambrosius Augustinus c. are vtterly against you and therfore can not be of your church But for as much as they hold the foundation that is Christ though they haue diuerse errors superstitions they were doubtles the members of the true Church of Christ which because you are not able to disproue reason would you should recant The 17. Article conteyneth 5. demandes 1 I aske of them whether the Lutherans Zuinglians Illirians Caluenistes Confessionistes Swenkefeldians Anabaptistes and such like be all of one Church BEcause you would make simple men beleue that there be so many diuerse sectes of Protestantes as you haue giuen them names I will first discusse these sectes and afterwarde aunswere your question Lutherans you meane them that follow Luthers opinion of the Sacrament Zuinglians follow Caluines iudgement of the same Confessionistes them that exhibited their confession at Auspurge which were both the Lutherans and Zuinglians so these 3 names may be contracted
into two Lutherans and Zuinglians As for Illyrians if you call them of Flaccius Illyricus they be Lutherans in opinion of the Sacrament and differ onely in ceremonies which can not diuide them from the faith Caluine and they that be of his iudgement agree plainly with Zuinglius so that of fiue names there remaine but two sortes differing in opinion whereunto you ioyne the Swenkefeldians and Anabaptistes Now to your question these be not all of one Church for the Swenkefeldians Anabaptists be detestable heretiks but the Lutherans Zuingliās as it pleaseth you to cal thē are of one true church although they differ in one opinion cōcerning the Sacramēt for although the one affirme a real presence the other deny it yet they both cōsent in this that the body of Christ is receiued spiritually not corporally with the hart and not with the mouth Wherfore this dissention is not so great though there be error on the one side but that they may be both of the Church of Christ as well as S. Cyprian the Martyr and all the Bishops of Africa and a great many of Asia differing with Stephanus bishop of Rome and the rest of his opinion in rebaptizing such as were baptized by heretiks 2 And if either they can proue vnto me that these being of such diuersitie in faith and religion make one Church WE haue alwaies abhorred the heresies of the Anabaptistes Libertines Swenkefeldians Dauidians Seruitians and all such But that Luther Zuinglius may be both of one Church differing onely in one opinion of the Sacrament is declared before 3 Or that each of their sects may giue saluation to their folowers being so disagreable one with an other in high points of our Religion SAluation is the gift of God and not in the power of any company or sect of men but this we affirme that out of that Church whereof we count Luther and Zuinglius notwithstanding their diuerse opinions which is but in one matter of the Sacrament to be members there is no saluation 4 Or that I should beleue all these rather then the Catholike Church or one of these more then another all making such a bold chalenge of the truth and Gospell NO man requireth you to beleue all these but the true Catholike Church onely Neither doe we requite you to beleue any one company of men more then an other but to beleue the trueth before falshood Now which of them hath the truth that they all brag of you must search in the word of truth desiring the spirite of truth that you may vnderstand and beleue the truth and so without doubt you shall come to the knowledge of the truth and of the Church of God which is the piller and stay of truth 5 Let the Protestants of all these kindes put their heades together and shew me a reason of these thinges and with all let them among them selues agree to what sorte of these sectes they woulde haue me and I will recant SVch is your impudencie in this matter as in all other that you woulde make men beleue that the Anabaptistes Swenkefeldians Libertins and other abhominable heretikes be Protestantes But it is well that you can make none but fooles thinke so as for the Protestantes they neede take no great deliberation to aunswere your demandes but you had more neede to laye your heades together to reconcile the Thomistes Albertistes Ockamistes Scotistes Reales and Nominalls which be all sectes of Papistes and especially your Canonistes and diuines about the articles of your religion that is whether the Pope be aboue the Councell or the Councel aboue the Pope Whether the Pope may erre and not the Councell or whether the Councell maye erre and not the Pope These two the Popes determination and the Councells determination being the rules of trueth in your religion and not agreed vpon how can any trueth be certeine in your Church As for Luther and Zuinglius they agree vpon one rule of trueth that is the worde of God and differ onely for the applying or laying of this rule yet but in one matter that not the greatest But you Papists some holding of the Pope and some of the Councell as rules of truth can haue no ground nor certainty thereof Therefore if you woulde haue me or any man to be of your belefe First determine how I shal know when I am in a right beleefe one sayeth if the councell alloweth it an other sayeth if the Pope alloweth what shall I doe when one of these is against an other yea when one Pope is against an other and one councell against an other shall I thinke that trueth changeth so often as they change Moreouer when one Pope graunteth that the councell is aboue the Pope and that the Pope maye erre Likewise one councell graunteth that the Pope is aboue the councell and that the councell may erre as it hath bene within the 200. yeares the councells of Constance and Basill determined that the councell was aboue the Pope and that the Pope maye erre Contrariwise the councell of Ferraria and Florence determined that the Pope was aboue the councell and that the councell might erre Martinus 5. the Pope chosen by the councell of Constance was of the same iudgement that the councell But Eugenius 4. that gathered the councell of Ferraria and Florence against the councell of Basill was of the contrarie iudgement Nowe I woulde saye he were a wittie fellow that coulde reconcile this geare together For if he be a Canonist that holdeth this opinion that the Pope can not erre whē the Pope him self graunteth that he may erre which waye shall he turne him selfe For if this proposition be true the Pope can not erre then this is true also that the Pope may erre for if he can not erre he can not erre in saying so And if the Pope erred in saying he coulde erre where he can not erre then this proposition is false the Pope can not erre so one proposition shal be both true and false which is impossible Likewise if he holde that hilde that the councell can not erre and the councell it selfe confesseth it that it may erre Gentle maister N. reconcile me these together which concerne a case that hath bene in practise and still is in the Papistrie and maye here trouble a mans conscience that woulde beleue your church and if he haue any wit restraine him for euer comming into your church If you can not vntie this knot nor winde your selfe out of this maze vnlesse you will be still obstinate it were wisedome for you to recant The 18. article hath but one demande I demande whether they were euer of the true Catholike church which either tooke to them selues newe names of religion according to the calling of any secte maister or liked not so well the name of Catholike or Christian as of their seuerall teachers as to be called of Arius Arians or of Caluine Caluinistes or of Luther Lutheranes
Pope and all her enemies she is to this day preserued and shal be to the worldes end Therefore the gates of Hell haue not preuailed against her nor the promise of Christ hath failed And whereas you say that your bastard church hath spoiled her of all holy actions gouernment and Christian name it is a most impudent lye as it is true that you sawe a bastard church vsurped her holy name counterfaicted her holy actions and turned her gouernment into tyrannie 4 Let me see therefore howe the onely dearling and spouse of Christ shoulde be neglected of him so long SHe hath not bene neglected of him but felt his continuall aide he hath geuen her safe deliuerance of her childe taken it vp from the crueltie of the Dragon he hath prouided her a place in the wildernesse he hath made warre with the Dragon for her sake and driuen him out of heauen he hath geuen her Eagles wings to flie into the wildernesse he hath caused the earth to swallow vp the water that shoulde haue caried her awaie he hath geuen the remnant of her seede Victorie ouer the Dragon Finally his mercifull protection and louing care ouer her hath neuer more notably appeared than that against so many daungers and enemies all this while he hath preserued her vntill such time as he hath thought good now to bring her out of her secret place in the wildernesse into the open sight of the worlde againe 5 Let the aduersarie shew that the Church shoulde euer by superstition and falshood commit adultery or be deuorcâ— from him THe true church consisting of God his elect and the liuely members of the bodie of Christ shall neuer commit such adultery that she shal be diuorced from him But the visible church by Idolatrie and superstition may separate her selfe from Christ and be refused of him as God speaketh by Esay to the church of Ierusalem cap. 1. How is the faithfull Citie become an harlot It was full of iudgement and iustice lodged therein but now they are murtherers Thy siluer is become drosse and thy wine is mixed with water Thy Princes are rebellious and companions of theeues c. euen so maye he say to the church of Rome how is that faithfull church become an harlot true Faith and Religion haue dwelled in her but now Idolatrie and superstition thy siluer is turned into drosse and thy wine is mixed with water thou hast nothing pure and vncorrupted thy Princes be rebellious Antichristes c. Thus I haue shewed that the visible church may become an adulteresse and be deuorced from Christ. 6 Or that Christ should euer want his spouse in earth THis hath bene often aunswered before Christ hath neuer wanted his spouse in earth though the blinde world can not alwayes see her or when they see her will not acknowledge her to be his spouse but persecute her as if she were an adulteresse 7 Or that he shoulde be a heade either without a bodie THese are but one thing in diuers phrases as he hath neuer wanted his spouse in earth so hath he neuer bene an heade without a bodie and seeing these wordes in this sence are relatiues for Christ is called a heade in respect of the Church which is his body and the Church is called a bodie in respect of Christ that is her heade I aunswere you by a rule of the Logicians No man knoweth a relatiue except he know the correlatiue thereof Therefore though Christ had a bodie in earth yet coulde it be knowen of none but such as knewe Christ the heade of that bodie Of whome when the Papistes were ignorant specially when they appointed an other heade in earth it is no marueill if they could not see the bodie of Christ though he haue neuer bene without it 8 Or such an vnknowne and small bodie THis hath bene answered immediatly before it sufficeth that it be knowne to Christ the head As he sayeth My sheepe heare my voyce and I know them Iohn 10. And to them that be of the members of the same body As for the rest it is not necessary that they should alwayes see it which will neuer acknowledge it Neither is it so smal as it is thought of it is dispersed in many places ouer all the worlde and yet fewe in comparison of the malignant church whose number is as the sand of the sea c. Apoc. 20. 9 Or that Christes only kingdom should become so coÌ„temptible NOthing else is to be looked for of the worlde but hatred and contempt as Christ him selfe sayth You shall be hated of all men for my names sake Matth. 10. S. Paule biddeth vs looke on our calling not many wise men according to the flesh not many mighty men not many noble men but God hath chosen the foolish thinges of this world to confound the wise and the weake of this worlde to confounde the stronge 1. Cor. 1. And what hath the true church to boast in but in the Crosse of Christ. Gal. 6. than the which nothing is more shamefull contemptible or reprochefull to the wisedome of this worlde what knowledge or preaching hath the true church but Iesus Christ crucified which to the Iewes is an offence and to the Greekes foolishnesse but to them that be called both Iewes and Greekes it is the power and wisedome of God to euerlasting saluation 1. Cor. 1. Rom. 1. So that as the church in the sight of God and his Sainctes is most glorious and honorable so in the sight of the worlde it hath alwayes bene most base and contemptible 10 Or that his spouse in earth shoulde euer lacke the singular prerogatiues of Gods spirite shewe me these thinges and I recant THis also hath ben declared before in the second demande of this Article There be certeine singular prerogatiues which are not continually with God his Church as the gift of tongues the gift of prophesie the gift of healinges c. but there be other prerogatiues of God his spirit that are necessary for the saluation of God his elect as the gift of vnderstanding the gift of Faith the spirit of adoption c. and these the spouâ—e of Christ hath neuer wanted Wherefore if you wil be partaker of those benefits which are receiued in the church of Christ you must forsake your Romish religion and recant The 25. article hath 2. demandes 1 Shew me that the Church which ought to be a Christian mans staye in all troubles and tempestes of doctrine might become so hidde or so close that no man coulde finde her THe reader must not be offended with me for any tedious repetition of mine aunsweres seeing you geue the occasion by propounding your demandes so often This demande hath a false principle that the church ought to be a Christian mans onely staie in all troubles and tempestes of doctrine for when soeuer any such tempestes doe arise there is as great question and doubt of the Church as there is controuersie of the doctrine
for as euery heretike chalengeth vnto him selfe the trueth of opinions so also doth he chalenge the possession of the church so that the church is alwayes in as great question as the doctrine And then is it to be sought out and tried onely by the scriptures as we haue declared at large in the aunswere to the 4. Article 2. demande Secondly whereas you demande whether she coulde be so hidde or close that no man coulde finde her because I haue aunswered to this demande fower or fiue times already I will now aunswere in one worde Although she was bidden and close from the worlde yet was she knowen to them that were her children 2 Or so harteles that she coulde succour no man nor instruct any man in his doubt of conscience or distresse of Faith proue me that there maye be such a decay of Gods spirite trueth and Church and I recant THe Church hath neuer bene afraide to do her office towardes her children and true members in teaching â—xhorting comforting confirming c. neither hath the spirite of God failed to leade her into all trueth and Christ hath bene with her euer more and shal be to the worldes end But that the spirite of God truth and the Church of Christ shoulde departe from the greatest numbre of the worlde is proued by S. Paule 2. Thess. 2. and by the Reuelation of S. Iohn Apoc. 12. Therfore if the spirite of trueth did leade you you shoulde recant The 26. article conteyneth in effect but 3. demandes 1 Shew me againe whether any man of yeares may be saued except he beleue the Catholike Church THere is no man of what age or yeares soeuer he be that can be saued except he be a member of the Catholike church But how necessary it is to beleue the Catholike church it is very doubtfull as you demande and as the conclusion of this article seemeth to require If you meane that it is necessary to beleue the Catholike church that is to say that God hath an holy vniuersall Congregation I graunt it is necessary to beleue But I vtterly deny that the Romish church is that holy Catholike church But if you meane as it seemeth and as the rest of the Papistes doe interprete that article I beleue the Catholike church that is I beleue what soeuer the church doth allow to be true I deny that it is necessary to saluation that a Christian man should so beleue the Catholike church both because the church may erre also because something may be commonly receiued of the church which is not materiall to saluation And that this is a false interpretation of this article of our Creede I beleue the Catholike church that is I beleue what so euer she doth set forth or maintaine to be true appeareth manifestly by the wordes them selues For who euer was so ignorant in the Latine tongue to thinke that Credere Ecclesiam and Credere Ecclesiae were all one in signification In deede if the wordes were Credo Ecclesiae Catholicae in the datiue case this interpretation might take place but when it is in the accusatiue case Credo Ecclesiam Catholicam A boy that woulde conster it otherwise than thus I beleue that there is a Catholike church were worthy to haue a doosen stripes for his labour Moreouer this common distinction of Credere in Deum that is to put our trust in god Credere Deum that is to beleue that there is a God and Credere Deo that is to geue credit to God that he speaketh the trueth plainely ouerthroweth this foolish and false interpretation For we say not Credo in Ecclesiam that is I put my whole trust in the Church for that were blasphemie against God in whome only we must beleue neither do we say Credo Ecclesiae that is I geue credit to the Church as though she shoulde alwaies speake the trueth But we saye and confesse against all heretikes and scismatikes Credo Ecclesiam c. that is I beleue that there is one Holy Catholike and Apostolike church whereof I am a member c. Finally when the articles following are spoken in one context and phrase it can not be chosen but that they must haue one kinde of interpretation Communionem Sanctorum Remissionem peccatorum Carnis resurrectionem that is I beleue the Communion of Sainctes the forgeuenesse of sinnes the Resurrection of the body c. whereof the interpretation must needes be this I beleue that there is a Communion of Sainctes that there is forgiuenesse of sinnes c. Euen so I beleue that there is a Catholike Church which is an article of our crede necessary to be beleued of euery Christian man but to beleue all and euery thing that the Catholike church by commoÌ„ consent doth maintaine is no article of our Faith and therefore not necessary to saluation 2 And that is it which hath in the face of all the worlde practised preachâ—ng the conuersion of nations to the obedience of the Gospell that hath alwaies had the ministring of sacraments the hearing of matters in controuersie power Iudiciarie in Ecclesiasticall causes the orderly succession of Byshops vniformitie in solemne ceremonies vnity in faith that hath in her selfe all holy functions of the spirite as working of miracles remission of sinnes the true sence and interpretation of Gods word that is bewtified by the diuersitie of states commended by Christ in the Gospell as with Virgines with Martyrs with Confessors and the rest BEcause these colewortes haue bene sodden twise or thryse already they are not worthy to be shewed in seuerall dishes but euen as they are here mingled all togither in an hochpotte Of these notes that you make proper to the Catholike Church as it hath bene declared before some are not alwaies necessary in the catholike church As open preaching in the face of the world open ministring of Sacraments and execution of discipline these are not to be required in a persecuted Church Some were proper for a time and then ceased as working of miracles and diuers other functions of the spirite Some are neuer necessary in the Church as succession of Bishops vniformitie in ceremonies c. But of all these notes there is not one that is proper to the Church of Rome for she hath not alwaies practised open preaching and neuer preached the worde of truth she hath conuerted but few nations to her Religion from Gentilitie and them rather by warre than by preaching she neuer had sence she first arose the ministring of sacraments according to Christ his institutioÌ„ she hath hard matters in controuersie not for furtherance of Iustice but for loue of money Her iudiciarie power may be dispensed withall for money She hath had no orderly succession of Bishops except an hore be an orderly Bishop of the Church of Rome And except so many schismes as they write of be orderly successions she hath not vniformitie in all ceremonies for diuerse nations and diuerse Churches in these nations haue diuers
like a foxe than a doue 5 Domus Dei. THe true Church in which we are is the house or familie of God which he gouerneth by his stewardes the sincere preachers of his word The popish church is the Synagoge of Satan where the preaching of God his word is despised and the word it selfe made subiect to mens determinations and authorities 6 Columna veritatis SAinct Paule by this title doth admonish Pastors and Preachers how great a burthen and charge they susteyne that the truth of the Gospell can not be continued in the world but by their ministerie in the church of God which is the piller and stay of truth this their duety true preachers considering are diligent in their calling to set forth the Gospell and to preach the truth But the popish church which is not the vpholder and mainteyner but the ouerthrower oppressor of the truth compelling it to giue place to falshood and error can by no equitie chalenge this name to be called the piller and stay of truth but rather of falshood and lyes 7 Ciuitas Dei. OVr Church is the citie of God builded vpon the foundations of the Patriarkes Prophets and Apostles Iesus Christ being the head corner stone ruled by the lawes of God onely reteyning that forme of regiment and common wealth that Christ him selfe hath prescribed The Church of Antichrist is founded vppon seuen hilles Apoc. 17. vpon the traditions dreames phantasies and deuises of men refuseth to be ruled onely by the lawes of God hath cleane altered and changed the forme of regiment prescribed by God set vp an other full of Antichristian pride crueltie and tyrannie Therefore in no wise may be called the citie of God But Babylon the mother of fornication Sodoma and Egypt where our Lord is daily crucified in his members 8 Ciuitas supra montem posita THis saying of our Sauiour Christ in the 5. of Mathew is not properly meant of the Church but of the Apostles their successors the ministers of the Church euen as these sayinges You are the salte of the earth you are the light of the worlde A citie builded vppon an hill can not be hidden neither is a candle lighted to be set vnder a bushell By which wordes he teacheth them aboue all other men to looke diligently to their life and conuersation for as they excell in place and dignitie so the eyes of all men are set vppon them As a citie builded vppon an hill must needes be seene of all them that come neare it so they being placed in so high an office and dignitie shall be noted and marked aboue all other men As a candle is not lighted but to be set on a candlesticke to giue light vnto all them that come into the house euen so a Minister and Preacher of God his word is not ordeyned for any other ende but that he should shine before men in true doctrine and good maners Hereby it appeareth how fondly some Papists would seeme to proue out of this place that the Church must alwayes be visible when the wordes are not applyed to the Church but to the ministers thereof I know some of the doctors expound this place otherwise but the context of the wordes doth plainely confute their error 9 Hortus conclusus AS a gardē or orchard walled in or inclosed with hedges is more estemed of the owner thē great broad fieldes and the trees and flowers that growe therein are preserued and kept more safely then such as are wilde and grow abroad right so the Church of Christ seuered from the rest of the world though it be small in compasse yet is it more estemed of him then all the world beside But the Church of Rome which will not be enclosed with the walls or hedges of God his word but wandreth at large after her owne inuentions can not be called the inclosed garden of Christ. 10 Fons signatus THe true Church of Christ is also compared to a spring or founteine which is shutte in or sealed vppe from the prophane waters of worldly vanities ministring the water of life to all the children of god But as for the popish church which ishueth out of the bottomles lake is a stincking puddle of all false doctrine and heresie whereof the whore beareth a cupp full Apoc. 17. out of which all nations haue dronk Apoc. 18. So farre is it that she should be a well sealed vp by Christ. 11 Sponsa Agni THe description of the Spouse of the Lambe set forth in S. Iohns Reuelation doth in all pointes most aptly agree vnto our holy Church and congregation But the popish church which is not content to be clothed in that white shining silke which is the Iustificatiō of Saincts made white in the blood of the Lambe but with the filthy ragges of mans righteousnes Esay 64. is no Spouse of Christ but the darling of the deuill 12 Mulier amicta Sole NO place in all the scripture doth more plainely set forth the estate of our Church than this 12. of the Apocalyps She is clothed with the sunne of righteousnesse Iesus Christ which is her bewtie She treadeth vnder her feete the Moone of mutabilitie changeablenesse and inconstancie she is crowned with 12. starres which is the doctrine of the 12. Apostles the worde of god She is alwaies fruitefull and persecuted by the deuill and his members but yet by Christ defended protected and prouided for in all daungers and aduersities But the church of Rome is that whore of Babylon clothed in purple and scarlet golde precious stones and perles described Apoc. 17. sitting vpon the beast with seuen heades which are the seuen hilles and is the great cytie that had dominion ouer the kinges of the earth 13 Habitatio fratrum in vnum ALthough this saying be not proper nor peculiar vnto the Church onely but common to euery societie and fellowship of men that continue in godly vnity yet doth it most aptly agree vnto our Church which holdeth one vnity of doctrine faith and religion of christ But the Popish church how so euer it bragge of vnity because their agreement is not in verity can not be that cohabitation of brethren which the Psalmist doth so highely commende 14 Mons Dei mons pinguis THe hill which Dauid so extolleth Psal. 68. is the mount Zyon which though it be small yet it excelleth the high and frutefull hill of Basan because God had chosen it to place his tabernacle therupon euen so the church of Christ though it surmount not ouer kingdomes in worldly dignities and commodities yet to such as Dauid was the litle hill of Zyon is more worth than all the seuen hilles of Rome 15 Sacra anchora IN all the Scripture the Church is not compared to an holy Anchore but in the sixt to the Hebrues Fayth in God his promises is compared vnto a sure stedfast Anchore of our soules vpon which Faith seeing our Church is builded we may truely say that in our
the cause would driue me vnto I did learne of auncient Irenaeus that such doctrine â—nd mysteries may be safely had and without all feare of errour taught by holy Priestes and Bishops Qui cum episcopatus successione charisma veritatis certum sâ—cundum placitum patâ—is accepeâ—unt VVho haue receaued with thâ—ir ordinary succession in their pastorall seat the gracious gift of vnderstanding the truth And these are they sayth he in the same place which may without all daunger to them selues and their hearers expound vnto vs the holy Scriptures Other men doubtles which this miserable age of ours seeth not that measureth all thinges by a fond flourish of learning whereof â—et there was neuer lesse store can not nor must not be so bold though their giftes were many moe study muâ—h longer then mine And to confesse the truth in deede I was somwhat loth such was my foolish feare then to fall in hand with that matter which being well and to the bottom ripped I perceaued of all other causes in the world most to touch the very sore of heresie and therefore might to me procure the hatred of such whose loue otherwise I could be content either to keepe or winne Besides that I saw the contention of the contrary part seking to make some answere to such thinges as might in this cause most greeue their mindes or marre their matter shoulde driue me from that course of study which otherwise in quietnesse I would most gladly keepe to serue truth and defende my cause which once of freedom and good will taken in hand must afterward of duety and necessitie be vpholden Notwithstanding all these thinges good reader which might most iustly hold me back yet now my friendes request the case and condition of this present time and my duety towards my mother the Church may of good reason and must of necessitie chaunge my former intent remoue my priuate study to the benefite of the common cause Therfore being at length by iust occasion wholy minded to serue as well as I could that way I thought good these late months to make a more full declaration of that thing which at my sayde friendes request I had so briefly touched before That as then when he first had it of me it onely serued him for his owne contentation the pleasuring of his singular and secret friendes and the helpe of some simple whome he knew deceyued by ouer light looking on so graue matters so nowe good Christian reader I trust it may helpe in common not onely such as haue been caried a way by the guile of heresie but other that are much subiect to the daungerous flattery of this present time with whome pleasure euer ioyned to the protestantes doctrine often more preuaileth then the preachers persuasion Be bolde to charge any of our aduersaries make he neuer so great accompt of him selfe with the force of trueth heere expresly proued both by argument and authoritie if it holde him not he shall I am sure brast out with impudencie and not lose him selfe by reason iust dealing or honestie And if it be proued to touch with safetie the poison it selfe let no man doubt to vse it for a preseruatiue in this common infection of our time and countrie For it were no reason any man shoulde practise with the poore people priuyly in such thinges as he were not hable to mainteine before their pilloures and preachers openly And for that hatered which I may procure to my selfe by mine owne trauell it shall not much moue me for I shall either be partaker thereof as a common praise in these euill dayes to most good men or els if I be not worthy so much I will learne to beare it as some parte of punishment satisfaction for my sinnes I may not bye frendship with flatterie nor mannes loue with forsaking Gods trueth Of such thinges then I will not make much reckening but my principall care is that in writing or wading in so deepe matters I keepe the streight line of the Churches truth which in the exceding rashnesse of these darke dayes a man may quickely lose And therefore to make sure I humbly submit my selfe to the iudgement of such our maisters in faith and religion as by Gods calling are made the lawefull Pastors of our soules Of whome I had rather learne my selfe then teach other if either they had occasion and opportunitie to speake or I might of reason and duetie in these miserable times holde my peace Farewell gentle Reader and if I pleasure thee by my paines let me for Christes sake be partaker of thy prayers At Antwerp the Second of May. 1565. 3 WHether this occasion of your writing were true or only pretendid it is all one to our purpose But where you commende your freinde for that he learned to beleeue first and sought to vnderstand afterwarde which you take to be the natural order of a Christian schoole if you had shewed where you learned that methode his coÌ„mendation should haue been the greater and your iudgement the weightier For we learne by Saint Paule a contrary order namely first to heare the worde of God preached and expounded and then to beleeue it Rom. 10. For God by the riches of his grace hath abounded towardes vs in all wisedome and vnderstanding and hath opened vnto vs the mysterie of his will according to his good pleasure so that after we hearde the worde of trueth the Gospell of our saluation we haue thereby beleeued and so are sealed with the holy Spirite of promise laboring and praying that those which haue receaued the first grace of knowledge and vnderstanding may daily more and more increase in the same that they may be full filled with knowledge of Gods will in all wisedom spirituall vnderstanding Col. 1. And as for that blinde faith which must be thrust vppon mens consciences to be accepted before they see what grounde it hath we leaue it as meete for sect masters and heretikes and in no wise to be admitted by the Disciples of Christ who calleth all men to heare him and vnderstand him Matt. 15. Mar. 7. But faith say you in most matters must direct reason But I say reason in all matters must be subiect to faith For the naturall man with all his reason neither doth nor can perceaue the things of the spirite of God for the eye hath not seene nor the eare hath hearde neither haue entred into the heart of man the thinges that God hath prepared for them that loue him but God hath reueiled them to vs by his spirite 1. Corinth 2. And this is the thing that deceiueth you Maister Allen which more like a maister of prophane artes then a good student of holy Diuinitie can put no difference betwene carnall reason and spirituall vnderstanding For that knowledge and vnderstanding of Gods holy mysteries conteined in his word whereuppon our faith is grounded we haue not by light of naturall reason but by reuelation and
and tranquilitie we haue through Gods singular goodnes vnder the happy gouernment of our Soueraigne Lady enioyed these many yeares looke to those Churches of God in Fraunce and the lowe countryes of Germany which within these twenty yeares haue bene for the most part planted growne vp flourished altogither vnder the heauy crosse and most sharp persecution what carnall pleasure hath allured them what worldly voluptuousnes hath and doth still intise them in so great multitudes to embrace this doctrine whereof if they tast neuer so smal they see present daunger of death or losse of all their goods with banishment Surely this is the Lords doing and it is marueilous in our eyes But to conclude this man if he can not haue loue and praise for his valiant enterprise yet by patient bearing of hatred and reproch he maketh full account of satisfaction for his sinnes O miserable conscience of the Papistes which haue no peace with god through faith in his infinite mercy but seeke to satisfie the streightnes of his eternall iustice by such beggerly shiftes as these which also he is so vncertaine whether they wil serue his turne that he feareth lest he lose al his labour if he happen to lose the streight line of the Churches truth which in these darke daies a man may quickly lose What say you M. Allen is it so hard a matter to keepe the streight line of the Churches truth in these darke dayes Why Where is the citie builded vpon an hill that can not be hidden Where is that visible and knowne Church which can not erre If that which was wont to be the only rule of truth among Papists faile you try an other rule of the Protestants and as Augustine exhorteth you search the word of God in the holy Scriptures and then vndoubtedly you shall finde the truth and the Church also that is the piller of truth though the dayes be neuer so darke or your eyes neuer so dymme if with like humilitie you would submit your self to the iudgment therof as you pretend to doe to the ministers and pastors of your faith and religion The Lorde if it be his will open your eyes that you may see the truth and geue you grace when you see it that you striue not against it to your owne destruction THE PREFACE VVHEREIN BE NOTED TWO SORTES OF HEretikes th one pretending vertue thother openly professing vice And that our time is more troubled by this second sort With a briefe note of the Authors principall intent in this Treatise 1 ALthough heresie and all willfull blindnesse of mannes minde be vndoubtedly a iust plage of God for sinne and therefore is commonly ioyned with euill life both in the people and preachers thereof as the historie of all ages and sondry examples of the Scriptures may plainely proue yet by the gyle and crafty conueiaunce of our common enimie the deuil falsehod is often so cloked in shadow and shape of trueth and the maisters thereof make such show of vertue and godly life that you would thinke it had no affinitie with vice nor origine of mannes misbehauiour at all So did he couer the wicked heresies of Manicheus Marcion Tatianus and the like with a fained flourish of continency and chastity so did he ouercast thenimie of Gods grace Pelagius with thapparance of all grauity constancy and humility and so hath he alwayes where craft was requisite to his intent made shew of a simple sheepe in the cruell carkase of a wily woulfe This good condition S. Paule noted in him in these wordes Ipse enim Satanas â—ransfigurat se in Angelum lucis For Satanas his owne person shapeth him selfe into an Angell of light And that his scholars play the like part our master Christ of singular loue gaue his flocke this wachword for a speciall prouiso Attendite à falsis prophetis qui veniunt ad vos in vestimentis ouium intrinsecùs autem sunt lupi rapaces Take heede of false prophetes that come in sheepes vesture but within be rauening wolues He sawe that seeth all things that the outward face of fained holinesse might easily cary away the simple he detected the serpentes subteltie that none might iustly pleade ignorance in a case so common and withall for thenstruction of the faithfull he gaue falsehoode and her fortherers this marke for euer that conuey they neuer so cleane or close yet their vnseemely workes should euer detect their fained faith But all this notwithstanding if we deeply weye the whole course of thinges we shal finde that this counterfaiting of vertue and show of pietie is not the perpetuall intent of the deuils deuise but rather a needefull shift in forthering his practise there onely where faith and vertue be not vtterly extinguished then the full ende of any one of all his endeuoures For this may we assuredly finde to be the scope pricke of al his cursed trauel to set sinne and her followers in such freedome that they neade not as often els for their protection the cloke of vertue nor habite of honestie but that they may boldly encounter with the good and godly and in open ostentation of their mischiefe ouer runne all trueth and religion VVherefore as he often cloketh subtell heresies in honest life and vertues weede so when he by likelihoodes conceyueth hope of better successe and forther aduentures he theÌ„ openeth a common schoole of sinne and wickednesse where mischiefe may with out colour or crafte be boldely mainteined This open schoole of iniquity and doctrine of sinne he once busely erected in the gentilitie by the infamous philosopher Epicurus and his adherents teaching to the singular offense of honestie pleasure and voluptuousnesse to be thonely ende of all our life and endeuours The which pleasaunt sect though it euer sence hath had some promotours yet the very shade of fained vertue and worldely wisedome of those dayes with ease bare downe that enterprise This broade practise was yet further attempted euen in Christes church first by Eunomius who doubted not in the face of the world to auouch that none could perish were his workes neuer so wicked that would be of his faith And then by Iouinianus who taught the contempt of Christian fastes matched mariage with holy maidenhood and afterward to the great wonder of all the Church perswaded certaine religious women in Rome to forsake their first faith mary to their damnation For which plaine supporting of vndoubted wickednesse S. Hierome calleth them often Christian Epicures boulsterers of sinne doctors of â—ust and lecherie Neuerthelesse the force of Gods grace which was great in the spring of our religion the sinne of the worlde not yet ripe for such open show of liceÌ„tious life speedely repressed that wicked attempt For as S. Augustine declareth it was so cleare a falshoode that it neuer grew to deceiue any one of all the Cleargy But not long after with much morâ— aduantage
lye a. But whether is he worthy to be thrust that regarding no communion either olde or new of any trueth but his common vnion of lying and rayling together hath falsyfied both the decrees of Vase and Carthage what M. Allen two Councells at one clappe falsyfied and that not ignorantly but wittingly not negligently but wilfully and yet must you wipe your lippes as though it were not you and rayle like a ruffian vpon our ministers in the ruffe of their newe communion when you are not ashamed to faulsyfie the decrees of the olde communion Be not these the wordes of the Carthage Councell Ca. 95 Qui oblationes defunctorum aut negant ecclesiis aut cum difficultate reddunt tanquam egentium necatores excommunicentur They which either deny to the Churches or els pay with difficulty the oblations of the deade let them be excoÌ„municated as murtherers of the poore Likewise the CouÌ„cell of Vase Ca. 2. Qui oblationes defunctorum retinent ecclesijs tradere demorantur vt infideles ab ecclesia sunt abijciendi quia vsque ad exinanitionem fidei peruenire certum est hanc pietatis diuinae exacerbationem quia fideles de corpore recedentes votorum plenitudine pauperes consolatu alimoniae necessaria sustentatione fraudaÌ„tur toti ergo tales quasi egentium necatores nec credentes iuditium dei habendi sunt vnde quidam patrum hoc scriptis suis inseruit congrueÌ„te sententia qua ait Amico quicquam rapere furtum est ecclesiam vero fraudare sacrilegium est They which reteine the oblations of the deade and make delay to deliuer them to the Churches are to be cast out of the Church as infidels For it is certaine that this prouoking to wrath of the mercy of God recheth euen to the vttermost denying of the faith Because both the faithfull departing from their bodye are defrauded of the fullfilling of their desires and the poore of the comfort of foode and necessary sustentation They therefore that are such are to be compted as murderers of the poore and such as beleiue not the iudgement of God wherefore one of the fathers hath put this in his writinges with agreable meaning whereby he saith To take away any thing from a mans freind is thefte but to defraude the Church is sacriledge What other thing can be gathered out of those decrees but that those men are noted with censure which keepe backe such thinges as men that are departed had bequethed to the Churches for the releefe of the poore what is this to oblation or sacrifice for the deade is it all one to speake of oblations of the deade and oblations for the deade With M. Allen it is all one for after he hath sayed that the Councells do excommunicate all them that hinder the oblations for the departed he addeth that the canons of the Councells runne thus that they which withdraw the oblations of the departed are excommunicated But herein he declareth that he is a manifest falsyfier not of error but of purpose 2 Damascene that blessed man that suffered so much sorrowe for trueths defense whose authority I must often vse in this treatise because he purposely stoode for this quarell against certaine heretiques of his time He therefore in the life of Iosaphat excedingly prayseth his passing loue towards his father departed VVho first with all godly deuotion procured his exequies and dirigies on the day of his buriall then commended his soule to God with seuen dayes solemne prayer and supplication at his sepulcher and with a wonderfull liberall almes or oblation for the poore people he finished vp the matter the viij daye But if you can finde in you hearte to credit this good mans report he will assure you of the vsage of his time By which you shall perceiue that it is a horrible slauÌ„der that the wicked haue raised on Gods Church and ministers which be not ashamed to say and auouch in their open sermons and vaine libells that these yearely and so many monthes mindes haue bene newely practised and deuised against Gods worde and the vsage of the primitiue Church VVherein they shewe them selues exceding ignorant in the affaires of the Church or els passing bolde and malitious in willfull deâ—eiuing the simple For our onely monthes and yeares oblations in Damascens dayes as he often affirmeth there were customably kept tricesimales quadragesimales anniuersariae memoriae the thirtith the fourtith the yeares mindes and portions apointed out as he sayth in testaments for the mainteinaunce thereof And all this commonly besides the peculiar deuotion of some towardes their singularly beloued If thou list go yet vpwarde thou shalt finde no lesse care for the helpe of the soules deceased for S. Ambrose reporteth of his time that otherwhiles the third the thirtith otherwhiles the seuenth the fourtith minde dayes were religiously obserued yea and that as he saith by good authoritie and auncient vsage of the Patriarches both in the lawe of nature and Moyses Cum frequeÌ„tibus oblationibus omnibus with often and sundry oblations for the rest of the departed This xxx dayes memoriall olde holy Ephreem in his testament and last will prouideth for him selfe after his departure The seuenth day was also euer in the primitiue Church with great religion obserued because as Beda saith that hath the representation of the life to come And S. Ambrose practised it for his brother for the like protestation and signe of the resurrection and rest perpetuall Die septimo sayth he ad sepulchrum redimus qui dies symbolum est futurae quietis the seuenth day we come together againe to my brothers sepulchre because that day is a pledge of the rest to come 2 That which can not be proued by the Councells shal be made cocke sure by the doctors and Damascene that blessed man shall beginne the daunse who as their fables write of hm had his hande cutte of for crafty conueiance yet was it againe restored by miracle by the blessed virgine after it had bene nailed to the Church dores of a longe time I haue often saide we deferre nothing to his authoritie who was both in a corrupt time and he him selfe a corrupter of religion by building vpon fables and authorities of men as maye be manifest to any that shall reade his writinges which of the Papistes of meane iudgement in these dayes is not ashamed of that fable which he reherseth in Serm. de defunctis how Gregory shoulde praye and obteine pardon of God for the sinnes of Troianus an heathen Emperor that was in Hell 4. or 5. hundreth yeares before Gregory was bishop of Rome so maye they be of the tale of Falconilla and all other like fables auouched by him in the historie of Barlaum and Iosaphat But of memories of the dead and prayers for the deade also we will not striue but that they were vsed before the times of Beda Ephraim and Ambrose but with out warraunt of
mainteined perhaps by occasion of such vnproper speach as then was vsed of the sacrifice of the Masse and propitiation both of the quicke and the deade But that I may consider these places particularly whereof you make so great accompt First where you will vs to take our aduantage of your translation I say you haue falsyfied Augustines wordes and meaning in the latter ende of the first sentence to make fooles beleue that the priuate Masse was sayd in Augustines dayes as it is among you First you call memoriam sui fieri ad altare which is that remembraunce of her shoulde be made at the altar that a memory might be kepte for her as though she woulde haue her sonne to be a chauntry priest to sing for her c. Item you translate vnde sciret dispensari victimam sanctam where she knew the holy hoste was bestowed as though she had ment nothing but that the hoste was layed vpon the altar where as you should haue sayed from whence she knoweth the holy sacrifice was dispensed or ministred by which wordes it is manifest that the communion was daily receiued not of the priest alone but of all them that were present You are as bolde as one of your wisedome may be with such a man to will M. Grindall to looke in his grammer for Augustins figures but if I may be so bolde with so profound a clearke as you are I woulde desire you to looke in the etymologies of your grammer whether sui be for her and vnde where And if you can not proue these significations by that parte of grammer which is called Etymologie that you would defende them by that part of cunning where in you are better learned called Pseudologia but to the matter of this testimony we haue in this first remembraunce of her in the nexte we haue the sacrifice of our price offered for her In deede this soundeth more like the matter you would haue if S. Augustine had not before in plaine wordes expounded his meaning which is nothing else but that the communion was celebrated in ministration of which there was speciall remembraunce of her in the prayers as there was of all deade in the sayth a generall memory And if you aske me what figure S. Augustine vsed though I coulde referre it to diuerse figures yet it may best be excused by Acyrologia which is an vnproper kind of speaking to call that the sacrifice of our price which was but a thankes giuing for the sacrifice of our price which Christ onely offered once for all vpon the aultar of the crosse As Augustine him selfe when he speaketh properly will confesse The other two places proue nothing but prayer for the deade vsed by Augustine But that you may see all this was but superstition or will worship in him he him selfe in a maner confesseth as much in the same place where he prayeth most earnestly lib. Con. 9. cap. 13. Et credo quod iam feceris quod rogo sed voluntaria oris mei approba Domine And I beleeue that thou hast done already that which I pray for but Lord approue this voluntary offering of my mouth His meaning is to allude to the free will offerings of the lawe but in deede he declareth that he prayed not according to the rule appoynted by God but according to the corrupt motion of his owne minde As for the place of Possidonius proueth plainly that it was the sacrifice of thankes giuing that was offered for the commendation of the godly and quiet deposition or putting of of his body which he before describeth In steed of which M. Allen translateth for commendation of his rest as though he had bene out of rest sayth that not withstanding his holy life and godly departure yet euen that day the citie was taken had oblation for his rest But if the men of those dayes had bene of M. Allens opinion concerning purgatory they would not both haue compted Augustine for a perfect man and yet after his death to doubt of his rest Finally where he boasteth that none were saued in those dayes but in this fayth he followeth his owne vayne of lying and not any proofe of auncient writing For although they were in that tyme infected with some errours and that not so great as he chargeth them withall yet was the fayth of their saluation in the onely foundation Iesus Christ and not in merittes or Masses pardons or pilgrimage but in the onely mercy of god Tota spes mea sayth Augustine non nisi magna valdè misericordia tua Da quod iubes iube quod vis lib. con 10. cap. 29. Al my hope is nothing else but thy exceeding great mercy Giue that thou commaundest commaund what thou wilt That vve and all nations receyued this vsage of praying and sacrifycing for the departed at our first coÌ„uersioÌ„ to Christes faith And that this article vvas not onâ—ly conâ—irmed by miracle amongest the rest but seuerally by signes and vvounders approued by it selfe And that the Church is grovvne to such beauty by the fructes of this faith CAP. X. 1 MAny moe examples of these matters might be brought out of S. Gregory diuers out of Damascene enowe out of what writer so euer you like best such choise we haue in so good a cause whereof euery mans workes are full But I will passe ouer the rest that I may onely reporte one history out of our owne Church in the pure spring whereof the Apostolike faith aboundaÌ„tly ishued downe from the principall pastors of Gods Church with great spreade of religion which sith that time hath bewtified our country in all Gods giftes with the best And amongest many euident testimonies of this trueth with the practise therof both to be founde in Gildas and in holy Beda there is a straunge and a very rare example not onely for the plaine declaration of the vsage of our Church in the first foundation of our faith but for an open shew by miracle in this liefe how God releaseth of his mercye by the holy oblation at the altar the paines of the departed in the worlde to come It shall be comfortable to the Catholikes to consider this parte of our belefe to be confirmed by the miraculous working of God as all other lightly be in placies where the faith is first taught And that our whole faith which our nation receiued of S. Augustine the monke was so confirmed by the power of God not onely our owne histories do declare but S. Gregory him selfe affirmeth it writing his letters to Augustine in this sense that he should not arrogate any such wounderous workes to his owne power or vertue which then God wrought by him not for his owne holinesse but for the planting of Christes faith in the nation where those signes were shewde Beda therefore writeth this notable history of a miracle done not many yeares after our people was conuerted in the beginning of his owne dayes that in a
that was the worst and cursed was he that was counted the best then is our case most carefull then are we worse then all other nations that neuer receiued the name of Christ then are we worse then we were before our conuersion then to be shorte there is no religion no Christ no God no hope of saluation 2 I am content to staye with you and ponder as much as is meete the conuersion of the Saxones vnto the faith of christ And first I saye that you reason both falsely and foolishly to proue that either all opinions were true or else all false that the Saxones receiued at there first conuersion For though prayer for the deade and other superstitious opinions then receiued were false yet doth it not follow that all that then was taught them for Christianity was false For although Augustine had bene voyde of all true articles of the faith yet the byshoppes and christian teachers of the Brytish nation in whose ayde they required and at last obtayned to the conuerting of the Saxones reteyned the foundation of fayth Iesus Christ and the onely sacrifice of his death And this was the fayth that was receiued euen of the Saxones as appeareth by those homylies that yet remaine in the Saxon tongue appointed to be reade vnto the people for their instruction and namely in that printed Saxone homylie which was appointed to be reade at Easter where in is declared not onely the faith of the Church at that time concerning the sacrifice of Christ his death but also that heresie of popish transubstantiation and the reall presence of Christes body in the sacrament is pithily confuted And therefore it is altogither vntrue that you say M. Allen that they did institute a sacrifice to the defacing of our redemption as you do that they did adore the sacrament as the natural body of Christ as you doe or counted it a â—â—opitiatory sacrifice for the quicke and the deade as you doe although they vsed vnprofitable prayers for the deade and many other superstitions Neither doth it follow that all that taught or beleued those errours so long as they builded vpon Christ the only foundation haue perished or that all they taught was false because some thing was vntrue or that God hath deceaued vs with fayned miracles which Satan hath shewed to set vp the kingdom of Antichrist euen in the temple of God with all lying signes and wonders 2. Thes. 2. To conclude no truth is false no vertue is vice no good thing is euill because all was not true all was not vertue all was not good that was receiued and practised among them 3 All which things if they repugne to common sense and reason and to the comfortable hope of our saluation which we haue receiued from God by Christ Iesus and the assured testimony of the spirite of God that we be a part of his chosen Church sanctified in his holy name by the word of truth and life which we by the ordinary ministery of man haue receiued signes and wonders confirming their calling and doctrine then this religion which they planted first in our country must nedes be in all points both holy true and accepâ—able vnto god Then as by that religion our fathers were ingraffed first into Christes body misticall which is the Church in which till this day they haue kept the high way to saluation so who so euer forsaketh this or any principall article or braunch thereof and so leaueth that Church into which we first entered at our conuersion he leaueth assuredly life and saluation and without all doubt euerlastingly perisheth Amongest which pointes of doctrine our aduersaries can not deny but the saying masse and offering for the deade the almes and prayers for the departed was taught with the first and proued by miracles with the rest The which either to deny were ouer much discredit of the antiquitie and plaine impudencie or else to attribute them to the deuills working were open vntollerable blasphemy 3 There is nothing that you saye in this parte or that you can say in this respect to proue that the religion here receiued was in all pointes holy true and acceptable to God because it was in some and those the chiefe but it may be sayed by the nations of the Gothes and Vandalles which were first conuerted from hethenish idolatry to the profession of the name of Christ by the Arrian heretikes to defend that there religion was in all pointes holy true and acceptable to God or by them that were conuerted by the Donatistes Nouations or any other heretikes For although the Arrians were blasphemous heretikes yet they tought many thinges truely and soundly concerning the faith of christianitie And therefore no more then the religion of the Arrians who first turned those nations was true in all pointes though it were in many no more I saye was euery article that was tought vnto the Saxons which were conuerted by superstitious Romanistes in all pointes true notwithstanding that many things and the principall were true So much therefore as may be iustified by the worde of God of that doctrine is holy true and acceptable to God but that which is contâ—ary to the doctrine of the holy Scriptures is neither receiued from God nor Christ neither hath it any testimony of his spirite by what presumptuous words oâ— apperance of signes and wounders so euer it be vttered Neither is it any greater offence for the English men to renounce the error of praying for the deade or abusing the communion to the similitude of a sacrifice or any other superstition then or at any time after receiued then it was for the Gothes or Vandalles to forsake the hereticall and blasphemous opinions of the Arrians by whome they were first perswaded to reuerence the name of Christ or for any other that were turned by any heretikes to forsake their first errors and geue place to the trueth after reueiled vnto them And whereas you affirme that we can not deny but that Masse offering almes and prayer for the deade were taught with the first and proued by miracle with the rest we may be bolde to deny that they were at the first taught so grossely as they be now maintained impudently And as for miracles I meane such as were prophecied to be the efficacy of error in the kingdome of Antichrist we will confesse that these and like errors had alwayes great plenty to establish them as they which had no authoritie out of the holy Scriptures to approue them 4 Yea this doctrine hath brought the Church to this bewtifull order in all degrees as we haue seene All the noble monuments not onely in our common wealth but through Christes Church doe beare sufficient testimony of our first faith herein This doctrine as the whole world knoweth founded all Bishoprikes builded all Churches raised all Oratories instituted all Collegies indued all Schooles mainteyned all hospitalles set forward all workes of charity and religion of what
sorte so euer they be Take awaye the prayers and practise for the deade either all those monuments must fall or else they must stand against the first founders will and meaning Looke in the statutes of all noble fouÌ„dations and of all charitable workes euer sith the first day of our happy calling to Christes faith whether they doe not expresly testifie that their worke of almes and deuotion was for this one especiall respect to be prayd and song for as they call it after their deathes Looke whether your Vniuersities protest not this fayth by many a solemne oth both priuatly and openly Looke whether all preachers that euer tooke degree in the Vniuersitie before these yeares are not bound by the holy Euangelistes to pray for certayne noble Princes and Prelates of this Realme in euery of their sermons at Paules or other places of name And so often as these preachers doe omitte it so often are they periured so often as they eyther eate or drinke of their benefactors cost so often beare they testimony of their owne damnation 4 This and almost all the rest to the ende of the chapter might be as wel the expostulation of the heathen men with the Apostles or them that first preached the faith of christ Were there not as goodly building of temples colledges and vniuersities among the heathen as are among vs at this daye but all they were builded and indowed by men of a contrary religion doth it thereâ—ore follow that their religion was good which erected such noble monuments both of their common welth and of their religion Although it is most false that Allen affirmeth that this doctrine founded all byshopprickes builded all Churches c. but admit it were so what argument were that to proue that his religion were true Our stories testifie that at the first conuersion of this lande to Christianity in the time of Lucius that arch flamines of the Paganes were conuerted to archbyshopprickes And the Pagane flamines were conuerted to Bishopprickes and so the temples of the Paganes were conuerted into the Churches of the Christians Gregory also instructeth Augustine how he should conuerte the temples of the Idolatrous Saxons vnto the vse of the Christian Churches If these stories be true then is it both false that M. Allen sayth that his doctrine of Purgatory founded all Bishopprickes Churches c. and also that all Bishopprickes Churches colledges c. must remaine in the religion of them by whome they were first founded he procedeth further to charge all our superintendents of periury for not keeping their othe made in the vniuersity to praye for the deade Let them that haue made such othe aunswere for them selues I am sure he lyeth of many and of the most of them for that othe was onely in Oxeford for any thing that I haue heard which vniuersity hath yeilded fewe to that place as yet But it is certaine that your popish Bishoppes of Queene Maries time almost euery one and the chiefest Bonner Gardyner Heth Hopton Therlebye c. were manifestly periured against that othe which they tooke in K. Henry K. Edwarde his daies to maintaine the kinges supremacie against the vsurped power of the Pope This all the world knoweth and therefore ye may be ashamed to accuse our superintendents of periurye of whome I am sure you can name but a fewe that euer tooke the oth 5 Aunswere me but one question I aske you VVhether the first authors of such benefites as you enioye in the Church at this daye either of bishoppricke or colledge or any other spirituall liuely hoode say your mindes vnfeinedly whether they euer meÌ„t that such men of such a religion of such life of such doctrine should enioy that almes which they especially ordeined for other men and for contrary purpose say trueth and shame the deuill thought they euer to make roume in Collegies for your wiues meÌ„t they euer to mainteine preachinge against the Masse against prayers for their owne soules when they purposely vpon that grounde beganne so godly a worke if they in deede neuer ment it as I knowe they did not and as your owne consciencies beare witnesse with them and against your selues that they did not how can you then for feare of Gods high displeasure against their owne willes vsurpe those commodities which they neuer ment to such as you be A lasse good men they thought to make freindes of wicked Mammon and full dearly with both landes and goods haue they procured enemies to their owne soules But if there be any sense in those good fathers and founders as there is and if they be in heauen as their good deseruing I trust hath brought them then surely they accuse you most iustly of wicked vniustice before the face of God for deluding the people for breaking their willes for usurping their commodities against their professed mindes and meaninges Or if they be in hell which God forfende and yet you must needes so suppose for raysing the monuments of such superstition then blotte out their memorie and names that haue not onely in their life mainteined horrible abusies but also after their death haue lefte such open steppes of superstition to all posteritie 5 The same question you maye demaunde of the fathers of the primitiue Church and in deede the same question or the like was demaunded of them and it is not so harde to answere as you imagine Many of these Churches and colledges yea the most notable cathedrall Churches in England were builded for preachers of the Gospell and there wiues to dwell in Our stories are plentifull in that point that they were the first inhabiters of them and afterwarde as Idolatrie and superstition preuailed were with all violence and iniury expelled out of them and monkes placed in their steede If you be so skilfull in antiquity as you make your selfe you can not be ignorant of this which is testified by Ranulphus Castrensis Mathaeus VVestmonasteriensis the storie of Peterburghe and many other Now whether any ment to maintaine preaching against Masse or prayers for their owne soules as we knowe not whether they did or no so we compt it not materiall Such liuinges as are appointed by the prince and the lawe for maintenaunce of them that preach the Gospell we maye enioye with a good conscience without regarde of their meaning that first builded the houses or possessed the landes For we must not seeke to learne our faith and religion out of their meanings and intentes but out of the worde of god And whether the builders of such places be saued or damned it perteineth not to vs to iudge nor to enquire Such things as were well done of them we woulde commend if they were heathen men but if any thing were euill in them we may not allowe it though they were neuer so good 6 Suppose I pray you which yet I woulde be lothe shoulde come to proofe or passe but suppose for all that that with the
taking away of this olde faith of praying and offering for the dead all the workes of the same faith which ishued downe from that fountaine might shrinke with all or returne to the founders againe because there is no rowme to fulfil their willes how many Churches and Chappelles what Colledges or hospitalls woulde our newe no faith bring forth VVould not euery bishoppes wife builde a Church thinke you or founde a Colledge in such a necessitie lest their husbands shoulde be driuen to serue in a reformed french barne 6 Nowe as touching your vaine supposing if all such landes as were geuen to mainteine prayers for the deade or other like purposes either good or supposed to be good should reuerte to the heyers of their first founders for not performing the intent of the founders perhaps fewe monasteries colledges or hospitalles In Italy Spayne Fraunce or Flaunders shoulde enioyâ— one halfe peny worth of their landes or reuenewes They ment not onely to be prayed for but to be prayed for by men of honester conuersation then the greatest parte of those cloysterers are They are too well knowen to the worlde to be taken for that they be called holy religious and chaste But suppose as you sayde that we had no manner of Churches to assemble in though byshoppes wiues be not able to builde them yet we doubt not but in the time of peace and tranquilitie vnder godly princes we shoulde haue as many and as faire builded Churches as the religion of Christ hath neede of Haue you not hearde of the Churches builded in Orleans and Antwerpe other places by the professors of the Gospell But if it were in time of persecution and tyranny I doubt not but all godly bishoppes had rather serue in a french reformed barne then in a popishe gilded minster And how so euer you iest like a scornefull caytifie of those holy assemblees of Gods children in Fraunce there barnes are more like those caues and vaultes vnder the earth that the olde Christian byshoppes were content to serue in before the time of Constantine theÌ„ your Idolatrous Babylonicall temples are like those princely buildings that by Constantine and other Christian princes were first set vp for the publicke exercise of Christian religion 7 One of these mocke byshoppes complaines very sore in a booke of his that men be not now bent with such zele and deuotion to preferre Gods honour in maintenaunce of his Ministers as they were in olde time and as Constantinus with the like christiaÌ„ Princies in the primitiue Church were But the good man marked not wherevpon this colde deuotion ariseth he considereth not that this is the fructlesse effect of so idle a false faith as his owne lordship preacheth he would not see that the maintenaunce of Gods honour both by liefe landes and goods in the peculiar fructe of that charitable louing faith which the Catholikes doe professe he weyed not well that the great grauntes of Constantinus were made to Syluester Bishop of Rome and not to the maried Byshop of Duresme He remembred not that the like holy workes of the noble kinges of our owne countrie were practised vpon such as wouldâ— professe the trueth and serue the altar and not vpon false pastors that were destroyers of all altars Such honorable portions were parted out for Gods lot and not taken from the worlde to goe to the worldely againe Thinke you any man were so minded to take from his owne wife and children either landes or goods to bestow on priestes babbes or bedfellowes No no God knoweth it was separated from them selues to the sacrifice to the priesthoode to the honour of Gods Church and ministerie The which thinges by your owne preaching my lordes decaide woulde you haue the Prince or peoples deuotion towardes you as is was and woulde be still if you were like your predecessors and serued the altar as they did I wisse if the olde S. Cuthbert Wilfride and William whome they compare in holynesse to horsies so good is their opinion of their holy auncieters had bene of the same religion that the occupiers of their roumes now be all the Prelates in England might haue put their rentes in a halpeny purse Come in againe come in for Christes sake come in to the Church againe serue the altar and then you be wortâ—â— to liue of the altar followe our fathers and you shall be loued as our fathers were confesse that religion which our owne Apostles first taught and we all haue beleued and all the workes of Gods Church protest to be true and then you shall be blessed of God and honoured of men 7 You are a priuileged person as your owne talke doth declare and therefore you may prate what you list if he be a mocke bishoppe which beside his excellent learning is also a painefull and diligent preacher of the Gospell what are those vnlearned Asses and rechlesse ruffians of your secte which haue nothing of a bishop but a rotchet and a myter or because I will not charge you with the worst what are they which if they haue some more learning then the rest of which number there are but fewe yet they count it the least part of their office to preach and teach which S. Paule counteth to be chiefe part of a Christian shepeheard ouerseer But to leaue the name come to the matter you mistake that godly mans complaint if you thinke he meaneth of superfluous buyldinges of Synagoges whereof you speake or the vnnecessary enryching of Prelates whereof you meane when he speaketh of the necessary sustentations of a great number of Pastors which through the rauening of your gluttonous Monkes be robbed of their portions And whereas you aunswere it is the fruite of so idle a false faith as his lordship preacheth your mastership lyeth For that fayth which he preacheth is both a true and a working faith which if it were as generally receiued in this land as it is truely preached by him and others the ministers of Gods word could lacke no liuings as God be thanked they neither doe nor can lacke sufficient for necessity among so many of high authority nobility and wealth as doe vnfaynedly professe the Gospell and dayly bring forth the fruites of a true liuely working and onely iustifying fayth The Churches of Fraunce in time of greatest persecution yet haue alwayes liberally susteyned their Pastors And as for the great grauntes that Constantine made to Syluester Byshop of Rome of such as he made in deede he made to married Byshops of Rome as some of them were since Syluester time rather then vnto Syluester the coniurer Hildebrand the hell hounde Iulius the warriar or any that succeeded Boniface the third which beside their abominable life were all heretikes and Antichristes And touching such benefites as were receiued at the handes of princes and noble men of our cuntry if they were ment to be bestowed vpon the professors of the truth and such as serue the aulter of
the third of his Ecclesiasticall storie reproueth This is all that S. Hieronyme coulde finde concerning his writings Who then hath raysed from hell these other Decretall epistles and constitutions that M. Allen and his companions woulde flappe vs in the mouth with all being nothing else but impudent lyes and foule forgeryes 3 Againe Dionysius Ariopagita of whome mention is made in the Actes so auncient be the recordes of our faith hath not onely left in writinge what he thought in this matter which had bene enough but also what the Church Apostolike in that spring of religion and pure deuotion taught and ordeyned to be vsed and that by the Apostles prescription whome he there tormeth the heauenly gides and capitaines of trueth For in the last chapter of his booke titled of the Ecclesiasticall soueraintie he telleth in ordre howe first the body is placed before the holy altar howe the solemne mysteries with heauenly psalmes and sonets be songe and saide ouer the corps how the holy Bishop geueth thankes to God maketh comfortable exhortation to the assembly to continue in assured hope of the resurrection how he anointeth the body with holy oyle and last of all maketh prayers for him and so committeth him to god The which whole ordre of the sacrifice ceremonies and mysticall prayers exercised as well in burialls as at other times in the reuerent mysteries this author woulde not fully set out in writinge for their sakes that coulde not for the weaknesse of faith atteine to the worthy holynesse of so high matters as he him selfe professeth in these wordes Praecationes quae in misterijs adhibentur nephas est scripto interpretari misticam eorum intelligentiam aut vim quae in eis deo authore efficacitatem habent ex abdito in publicum efferre sed quemadmodum a maioribus nostris traditum accepimus c The prayers which be vsed in the misteries maye not in any wyes be set out to the world in writinge neither may the singular efficacie and grace of them be made common to all men but euen as we haue receiued by the handes of our elders And as longe as this ordre was religiously kept in Gods church the solemne secrets of the blessed sacraments were not so contemptible as our news open communion hath of late made them where there is nothing so holy but it may abide the sight and handeling of who so euer is the worst The holy and heuenly misteries of Christ his spouse were not then prophaned by the presumptuous babling of euery idle heade Then were not the soueraigne weighty matters handeled in alehouses but vsed at the holy altars Then the idle contentious vngodly and vnprofitable quirkes and questions had no other solution but sharpe discipline and worthy correction then were not the Gides of Gods people controwled by euery restlesse fellowe that coulde cracke of Gods worde but it was enough for a faithfull mans contentation to say with Basil the greate Dominus ita docuit apostoli predicauerunt patres obseruauerunt confirmauerunt martyres sufficiat dicere ita doctus sum Our Lorde taught so the Apostles so preached our fathers obserued the same the holy martyrs haue sealed it It is sufficient for me to say so was I taught O Lord that this simple sincere fidelitie might once take place againe in our dayes for the comforte of the poore faithfull flocke that are now so burdened with questions of infidelitie that the sely simples soules can not tell howe to turne them selues nor finde meanes to kepe their faith inuiolated in such a multitude of misbeleuers VVhich I surely hope the earnest and pityfull prayers of so many good men that do bewaile this miserie shall at length after due punishment of our â—innes obteine at Gods gratious handes But what sâ—ifte doe the aduersaries here make with this euident testimonie of this so auncient a writer mary sir they indeuour with all their might to robbe this excellent auncieÌ„t diuine writer of all his workes whiche haue borne the title of his name euer sith they were writen which chalenge their owne author by that graue stile that no other man as the skillfull in that language doe testifie coulde euer lightly atteine vnto which so sauore of the antiquity and the Apostolike spirite that thou woulde deeme them to be indited by some of the continuall hearers of Christ Iesus But it were vaine to stande in contention for this matter for we shoulde neuer haue ende if we should be put to proue that euery man made the bookes which be extant in his name it were to much miscredit of antiquitie and vncertainty of all thinges Although this mans workes haue bene both named and certeine sentences alleaged out of them by most auncient doctors and councells VVith whome the aduersaries if they list be busie shall wrestle for I will seeke out as my purpose was whether in other times and vsages of celebration this kinde memoriall of the deade hath not bene kept 3 If Dionysius the Aeropagite had written any thing or any Dionysius had written any bookes entituled de ecclesiastica Hierarchia before S. Ieronyms time or in his time he would not haue left him out in his Cataloge of Ecclesiasticall writers which he continueth from the passion of Christ vnto the 14. yeare of Theodosius the Emperour or if any such writer or writing had bene knowne in the Church two hundreth yeares after Gennadius which addeth if any were omitted by Ieronym and continueth his cataloge vnto the raigne of Zeno or Anastasius in which time he liued he would not haue passed him in so deepe silence yea the man him selfe euen in the wordes that M. Allen rehearseth plainly declareth that he was not that Areopagite coÌ„uerted by S. Paule for then he would not haue sayd Quemadmodum a maioribus nostris traditum accepimus as we haue receiued it of our auncestors But as we haue receiued of the Apostles them selues of whom Dionysius him selfe was turned to the faith As for Suidas is to late a witnesse to know that Ieronym and Gennadius and before them Eusebius knew not But M. Allen thinketh he hath made a witty defence for these bookes to be written by Dionysius the Areopagite when he sayth we should neuer haue ende if we shoulde be put to proue that euery man made these bookes that be extant in his name But what if we should receiue all bookes to be authenticall that beare the name of some worthy person shoulde we not thinke you haue many goodly treatises in the name not onely of auncient doctors but euen of the Apostles them selues But Origen and Athanasius both name this Dionysius and allege sentences out of him Shew that M. Allen and you haue wonne the fielde for Dionysius credit except it be out of such Origens and Athanasiusses as this Dionysius is or as Damascene and the second Nycene councell alleage to whom what so euer could be counterfected to serue their
prayer for the dead came from the Apostles then Tertullian could proue that oblation for the deade came from them To detest fasting on Sunday and to pray kneeling with diuerse like superstitions Tertullian referreth to the Apostles as well as prayer for the deade deny one and doubt of all the rest And whereas M. Allen vpon contemplation of Chrysostome wordes falleth into a hidden agony cryeth alasse alasse if he would consider what the same man writeth vpon the Epistle to the Philip. Hom. 3. he would not make so great mone the losse is not so great Procuremus eis aliquid auxilij modici quideÌ„ attamen iuuemus eos Let vs procure them some helpe in deede but small helpe yet let vs helpe them Loe M. Allen your owne doctor confesseth it is but smal help that can be procured by prayers almes or remembraunce of them at the celebration of the holy misteries You will say that soone after he sayth the Apostles that instituted such memory knewe that much commodity came to the deade Then see how soone he forgetteth him selfe when he followeth not the rule of holy Scripture Againe howe like you M. Allen that he alloweth not prayers nor the said memory to helpe them that were Catechumeni which were learning their catechisme and dyed before they were baptised S. Ambrose you say cap. 9. of this booke did pray and offer for Gratianus which was but Catechumenus and dyed before he was baptised Againe how agreeth this with your catholike doctrine which you boast is so well ordered to your handes that Chrysostome denyeth them prayers and alloweth them almes for their helpe Catechumenos verò neque isto solatio dignamur sed omni huiusmodi destituti sunt auxilio vno quodam dempto quo nam illo pauperibus illorum nomine dare licet vnde illis non nihil refrigerij accedet As for them that be Catechumeni we count them not worthy of so much as this comfort but they be destitute of all such aide except one What one is that we may giue some thinge for their sake to the poore whereof some refreshing shall come vnto them 6 But heare I pray you what notable wordes S. Damascen hath for the vtilitie and institution of these thinges The holy Apostles and disciples sayth he of our Sauiour Christ haue decried that in the dread soueraigne vndefiled and liuely Sacraments â—o he calleth the Masse there shoulde be kept a memoriall of those that haue taken their sleepe in faith the which ordinaunce vntill this day without gainsaying or controwling the Apostolike and Catholicke Church of God from one cost of the wide world to an other hath obserued and shall religiously keepe till the world haue an ende For doubtlesse these thinges that the Christian religion which is without error free from falshood hath so many ages and worldes continued vnuiolably not without vrgent cause those thinges I say are not vaine but profitable to man acceptable to God and very necessarye for our saluation Thus farre spake the doctor setting forth not onely his owne minde but the faith of a numbre of the peeres of Gods Church wherein to proue this doctrine to be catholike he fitly followeth the same way which Vincentius Lyrinensis gaue vs once for a rule to trye trueth by Prouing that it hath antiquitie as a thinge that came and hath continued euen from the beginning of the Christian religion declaring that it hath the consent of all nations because it is and hath bene practised through out all the costes and corners of the wyde worlde and last that it hath the approbation of the wisest and holyestmen that euer were in the Church of christ And more then all this that it shall so continue till the ende though it be for a time in some peculiar nations omitted because it is receiued into a parte of that worship of God which in the Church can not perishe 6 As for Damascene I know not wherefore his authoritie serueth but to fill vppe the number for neither is his credit nor his antiquitie comparable with the former we refuse not the rule of Vincentius Lyrinensis concerning antiquity so you can proue that it hath God to be the author the Prophets and Apostles As for witnesse vnder this antiquitie that which had an erroneous beginning shall haue a shamefull ending 7 And this prescription of trueth our aduersaires can not auoyde but with such vnseemely dealing as I trust they them selues now be ashamed of as all other reasonable men are For now let them come with brasen facies and blasphemous tounges and say that prayers for the deade be vnprofitable that the rites of the buriall be superstitious that to say the Masse and sacrifice to be propitiatory for the soules departed is iniurious to Christes death that the doctors praised the errours of the ignorant people of their dayes that they all erred and were deceiued that the Church of Christ hath bene ledde in darke ignorance till these our dayes let them bestowe these vaine presumptious wordes where they maye take place for nowe all wise men doe perceiue that all these haue their holy institution by Christ and his Apostles practised vniuersally in the primitiue Church embrased of all godly people and approued to be wholy consonant to Gods worde by the pillors of Christes Church who so consonantly agree together in this point as well for the practise and proofe as for the beginning therof that to dissent from them and trust in these reedes of our dayes were meere madnesse that are pufte to and fro with euery blast of doctrine that care not what they say so that they say not as other their forefathers sayed that had rather then they woulde geue ouer a singular opinion of their owne imagination refuse and denie the authoritie of so many notable wise auncient godly and well learned fathers whome we haue named Although we haue left out many of no worse iudgement plainely auouching these thinges to come into Christes Church and worship by the ordinaunce of his holy Apostles All which thinges if our aduersaries haue reade then they are in a most miserable and heuy taking that doe withstand an open knowen trueth and as I feare against their owne consciences too Or if they haue not reade these plaine assertions of all learned men sith Christes time then they are most impudent that so vainely bragge in a matter whereof they are not skillfull But I trust God will open their eyes and breake their prowde hartes to the obedience of his holy Church 7 Nay M. Allen your prescription is not yet proued that this geare came from Christ and the Apostles The oldest witnesse that you haue alledged fathered manifest fables vpon the institution of Christ the Apostles as you your selfe can not deny if you haue any conscience at all and therefore not sufficient to be credited for that you allege him Wherefore you may bestow where you list these swelling bragges
and knowe of their owne conscience that they be directly against them yet dare not openly charge them with falshood as they doe vs their scholars but rather as I sayd seeke some sentence out of them to helpe their owne cause then with their plaine condemnation of falshood to refuse their authoritie S. Augustine busyed much with the Pelagians and charged by them in disputation that he defended the Manicheis doctrine concerning originall sinne for his defense and warraunt proueth vnto them that S. Ambrose taught the same doctrine that he did and yet they durst not be so bolde to call him a Manichie Dic huic Ambrosio si audes quae mihi tam petulanter obiectas Thou heretike sayeth he say the same by S. Ambrose if thou dare for shame which thou so sausely and wantonly obiectes to me Looke I pray you Ambrose was but newe deade when his onely name did feare the heretike wheÌ„ other aliue of as good learning was contemned of him and by wordes of reproche charged with the Manicheis secte who was a wicked man of horrible sectes not long before those dayes Pelagius out of doubte thought no better of Ambrose and Cyprian deade then he did of Augustine and Innocentius a liue because their doctrine was all one but yet the men departed were of more authority in Gods Church then the liuing of whose continuance to the ende men were vncertaine before the proofe thereof and their wordes being deade might easely be wrasted to some shew of their purpose when the authority of the liuing coulde not admit any such false dealinge them selues bearing witnesse of the meaning of their own words VVell then our doctors of Gods Church being all of holy estimation and blessed memory doe so dase the eyes euen of their owne aduersaries that being of the very same doctrine that we who by Gods grace be membres of the Catholike Church be of yet they are past the malice of those which like not their doing and doctrine For the heretikes well knowing them to be the authors or at the least especiall mainteiners of this our assertion of the valew of prayers and the holy sacrifice for the departed yet they dare not but clokedly reprehende them when they flowe against the poore Catholikes nowe aliue with wordes of infinite blasphemie and sclaunderous reproche Therefore I nowe will call vppon them with S. Augustines wordes Come on all the packe of you who so euer is the prowdest Protestant vpon the earth call if he dare S. Denyse S. Clement Athanas. Chrysostom Ambrose Gregory Bede we are not ashamed of their names as you be of your Maisters Call these Papistes for praying for their freindes call them Idolaters call them superstitious call them enimies of Christes passion say they be iniurious to his death by prouiding a newe sacrifice for sinne tell them they inuented Anniuersaries monthes mindes and yearly offeringes for their owne gayne call them masse mungers call them blinde gydes No you dare not for your eares you dare not disprayse our heauenly gydes you dare not once name your owne 9 M. Allen staâ—â—our wisedome there is no man will graunt you that the doctors of Gods Church Augustine Ambrose Chrysostom Basill c. are al togither yours because they haue allowed some one or two thinges that you doe and haue condemned the whole substance and principall groundes of your religion Nay rather count vpon the Popes to be the pillers of your Church doctors of your learning and fathers of your faith that haue bene within these seuen or eight hundreth yeares and see whether we might not with more honesty bragge of Iouinian and Vigilantius then you in your conscience can glory in a whole huÌ„dreth of them almost And whereas you bable of Augustine and the Pelagians if you were posed to answere vppon your conscience doe you defend Gods eternall predestination with Augustine rather then free will with Pelagius the only grace of God to be the whole cause of mans saluation as Augustine doth or the merites of workes as the Pelagians doe And whereas you allege that saying of Augustine dic huic Ambrosio c. to proue that Ambrose may not be gaine sayde what so euer he writ you shall heare what Augustine him selfe sayth of the same Ambrose when he was pressed with his authority by the Pelagians as though he defended freewill in his booke de gratia Christi contra Pelagium cap. 43. Beatus inquit Ambrosius Episcopus in cuius praecipuè libris Romana elucet fides qui scriptorum inter Latinos flos quidem enituit cuius fidem purissimum in Scripturis sensum ne inimicus quidem ausus est reprehendere Ecce qualibus quantis praedicat laudibus quamlibet sanctum doctum nequaquam tamen authoritati Scripturae canonicae comparandum Blessed Ambrose sayth the Pelagian that Bishop in whose bookes specially the Romane faith doth shine which glistered as a certeyne flower among the Latine writers whose fayth and most pure sense in the Scriptures no not his enemy durst reprehend c. Behold sayth Augustine with what howe great prayses he extolleth him which though he be neuer so holy and well learned yet is he not to be compared with the authoritie of the canonicall Scriptures Loe here the authoritie of Ambrose or any man And by the way note here the hereticall bragge of the Romane faith Finally where you stand forth like a peeuish quarrell picker to dare vs with S. Augustines wordes we may well say vnto you as to such a busy body good fellow thou makest more a doe then thou needest here is no man disposed to striue with Clemens Dionysius Athanasius Chrysostome nor Augustine if they haue spoken any thing that helpeth the matter bring it forth where due triall may be had in the meane time bragge of them as much as thou wilt thou shalt neuer be able to proue that of 20. errors which thou defendest they did hold one If they haue spoken otherwise then truth in any matter they must be told of it as well as other men But thou must not thinke that for one error common with them thou must hold an 100. coÌ„trary to them Thou doest them wrong to make them thy partakers as thou shalt well know when the triall commeth therefore quiet thy selfe and talke of thyne owne mates as for those men thou hast litle to doe with them nor they with thee but for sclaundering of them to be altogither on thy side 10 Such force hath the trueth and such feare there is in falshood and yet these doctors must needes be in a thousand times worse case then we be if the doctrine of purgatory and prayers be not true VVe may be saued or at least reasonably excused by following they in leading vs in falshood can haue no excuse of their impietie But howe glad may all we Catholikes be in our heartes that haue the full consent of all them in the proofe of our beleue out of
may by the example of Christ aunswere one question with an other why was it first reueiled to the Arians in councell holden against Christ that the article of his descent into hell was meete to be added to the creede and confession of faith which was not reueiled to so many godly meÌ„ as set forth the Symbole nor to the holy Nicene Councell Aunswere me if you can or any Robin good fellowe of your sect â–ª learned or vnlearned is it any preiudice to the trueth of that article or to the right that it hath to be placed in the creede that it was first added by the Arrians why was the trueth reueiled to heretikes concerning rebaptisation rather then to Cyprian and so many catholicke byshoppes why was it reueiled to the Pelagians that infantes might be saued without the participation of the sacrament of Christes body and bloude rather then vnto S. Augustine Innocentius byshoppe of Rome and as Augustine sayeth all the catholicke fathers of that time which thought it was as necessary for them to receiue the communion as to be baptised If heretikes shoulde not affirme somethinge that were true they shoulde neuer deceiue any man And sometime Satan affirmeth the trueth not because he will haue it beleeued but rather that proceding out of his lying mouth it might the sooner be discredited And therefore sometymes Arrians Pelagians Anabaptistes and such like by the subtilty of Satan haue affirmed somethinge that is true either to winne credit to their manifolde lyes or else to drowen the credit of that trueth among so many errors 7 Nay I will pose you further is not your preaching the very ready waye to all such extreeme blasphemies as they boldely mainteine did euer man fall from the Catholicke Church to those further heresies then you yet openly professe but he tooke yours by the waye as a plaine passage to extreme infidelitie yea your opinions doe so well stande with the other that they neede not afterwarde to refuse any one pointe of all your doctrine to mainteine their owne There is no article of Catholicke doctrine but it is as much hated of them as of your selues Helpe your selues here my maisters or else all the worlde will take you to be in your heartes of the same sectes wherevnto your faith is alwayes so dearely ioyned Put your heades together and tell vs whie your doctrine is so deare to the AriaÌ„s all wicked men so hated of the holy fathers of Christes Church If you frame not your aunswere well you liese your credites your scholars and your honesties VVell thus haue I pointed out your author his name was Aërius you must be called Aërians you maye kepe the name of Protestaunts or Euangelistes beside For a holy newe calling is lightly ioyned to such men VVhereby though some simple be deceyued yet wâ—se men be warned Or if the olde authors of this secte be not so glorious as these new reuiuers if they list and like so they may call them selues Lutherans or Caluinistes or what they will but Catholickes Although Martyn Luther graunted purgatory and prayers with this error that such as were there might yet by their diuers deseruinges winne or loose life euerlasting as men of doubtefull state as they were before in the worlde plaine against our Sauiours admonition and carefull warning veniet nox quando iam nullus operari potest VVorke whiele the day lasteth for the night shall come wheÌ„ no man can labour But I neede not to stande vpon this point which of neither parte is much regarded Neither will I spende any more time in getting them an author of their secte seeing they haue choise of diuers Let them goe out of the Citye of God from amongest the holy company and turne on the lifte hande and looke amongest the outcastes of all agies and they shall haue freindes and fellowes enowe 7 That you saye of our preaching to be the waye to so many heresies might haue bene sayed of the Gentiles and Iewes to the whole Church of Christians The Gentiles continued constant so did the Iewes without schisme in their errors when the professors of Christianity were rent and torne into an hundreth sectes and heresies There were no heretikes but they hated Iewes and Gentiles as much as the true Christians was therefore the religion of the Iewes and Gentiles better then the religion of the Christians Yea there neuer was since Christ any heresie or heretike but they agreed in many more thinges with the Christians then with the Gentiles and Iewes was therefore the Christian religion false or the Paganes and Iewes superstition true It is therefore no dâ—sâ—redit of our doctrine that Arrians or Anabaptistes of our time either haue any thing of yours or prayse any thing of ours Neither our credit schollers nor honestie are in daunger for their errors which they learned not of vs neither are your wit learning or heresie the greater for vttering this foolish conceipte which no more toucheth vs or defendeth you then it carpeth the religion of Christ and mainteineth the Idolatrie of the heathen The worlde seeth what vaine reasons you leane vnto being destitute of the worde of god An heretike helde this opinion therefore it is false The deuill beleueth there is one God therefore shall not Christian men beleue so why woulde God reueile any trueth to heretikes why did the Pharizees which otherwise were heretikes defende the resurrection of the deade This vaine frothe of wordes and smoke of foolish and vnlearned questions will euen fall downe and vanish awaye of it selfe though it be not blowen away by vs The latter end of this chapter hath one croppe of his olde custome to charge Luther with defending of Purgatory which either was while he remained in ignorance or else it is but a fained fable as many other of him and others are deuised by the Papists who as they erre from the trueth of God so they delight in sclaundering of good men but they shall not preuaile their madnes is made knowen to all men That their falsehood is condemned and the Catholicke trueth approued by the authority of holy Councells Their pride in contemning and the Catholickes humilitie in obedient receyuing the same And a sleight vvhereby the heretikes deceiue the people is detected CAP. XV. 1 ANd for our parte it is sufficient good reader that we knowe the first founder thereof and that we be nowe right well assured that he in his time and his scholars in theirs haue bene noted called and condemned for heretikes in this as in other fonde peruerse opinions beside not onely by the singular iudgements of diuers learned men but by the common sense and consent of the worlde and by auncient Councells both generall and particular as we maye reade in the Councells of Carthage the iiij of Bracharense and Vase the Decrees of which by occasion we rehearsed once before They are both auncient and of greate authority and honored with the presence of
penaunce there remaineth some due of temporall punishement for the satisfying of Gods iustice and some recompense of the oftensies past 31. chapter 2 The double and doubtfull shiftes of our aduersaries pressed by this conclusion are remoued and it is proued against one sorte that these foresaide skourgies vvere in deede punishments for sinnes remitted And against the other secte that this transitory paine hath often endured in the next life 43. chapter 3 That the practise of Christes Church in the courte of binding and loosing mans sinnes doth liuely set forth the ordre of Gods iustice in the next life and proue Purgatory 65. chapter 4 That the many folde vvorkes fructes of penaunce vvhich all godly meÌ„ haue charged theÌ„ selues vvith all for their ovvn sinnes remitted vvere in respect of Purgatory paines for the auoyding of Gods iudgemeÌ„t teÌ„poral as vvell as eternal in the next life 74. chapter 5 A briefe ioyning in reason and argument vppon the proued groundes vvith the aduersaries for the declaration and proofe of Purgatory 89. chapter 6 That Purgatory paines doth not only serue Gods iustice for the punishement of sinne but also cleanse qualify the soule of man defiled for the more seemely entrauÌ„ce into the holy placies vvith confereÌ„ce of certaine textes of scripturs for that purpose 92. chapter 7 That there is a particular iudgemeÌ„t and priuate accompt to be made at euery mans departure of his seuerall actes and deedes vvith certaine of the fathers mindes touching the textes of scriptures alleaged before 103. chapter 8 Origen is alleaged for our cause vpon vvhose error in a matter somvvhat apperteining to our purpose S. Augustins iudgement is more largely sought and there vvith it is declared by testimony of diuers holy authors vvhat sinnes be chiefly purged in that temporall fire 114. chapter 9 A further declaration of this point for the better vnderstanding of the doctors vvordes VVherein it is opened hovv Purgatory is ordeined for mortall sinnes and hovv for smaller offenses vvho are like to feele that greefe and vvho not at all 125. chapter 10 A place alleaged for Purgatory out of S. Matthevv vvith certeine of the auncient fathers iudgements vpon the same 132. chapter 11 An aunsvvere to certaine obiections of the aduersaries moued vpon the diuersity of meaninges vvhich they see geuen in the fathers vvritinges of the scriptures before alleaged for Purgatory and that this doctrine of the Church standeth not against the sufficiency of Christes Passion 148. chapter 12 An euident and most certaine demonstration of the trueth of Purgatory and the greeuousnesse thereof vttered by the prayers and vvordes of the holy doctors and by some extraordinary vvorkes of God beside 156. chapter 13 Of the nature and condicion of Purgatory fire the difference of their state that be in it from the damned in hell vvith the conclusion of this Booke 169. THE ARGVMENTES OF THE Chapters of the seconde booke THe preface of this booke vvherein the matter of the treatise the order of the authors proceding be briefly opened 180 chapter 1 That there be certeyne sinnes vvhich may be forgiuen in the next life and that the deserued punishment for the same may be eased or vtterly released before the extreme sentence be to the vtmost executed pag. 187. chapter 2 That the faythfull soules in purgatory being novve past the state of deseruing and not in case to helpe them selues may yet receiue benefite by the vvorkes of the liuing to vvhom they be perfectly knitte as felloâ— members of one body 197. chapter 3 VVhat the Church of God hath euer principally practised for the soules departed by the vvarrant of holy Scripture vvith the defence of the Machabees holy hystory against the heretikes of our tyme. 205. chapter 4 That the funeralls of the Patriarches both in the lavv of nature and Moyses and Christ had practise in them for the reliefe of the soules departed 220. chapter 5 Man may be relieued after his departure eyther by the almes vvhich he gaue in his life tyme or by that vvhich is prouided by his testament to be giuen after his death or else by that almes vvhich other men doe bestovv for his soules sake of their ovvne goods 238. chapter 6 Of certeyne offerings or publike almes presented to God for the deceased in the time of the holy sacrifice at mens burialls other customable dayes of their memories and of the sundry mindes kept in the primitiue Church for the departed 266. chapter 7 That the benefite of praier almes apperteyneth not to such as dye in mortal sin though in the doubtfull case of mans being the Church vseth to pray for all departed in Christes faith 271. chapter 8 VVhat that holy sacrifice is vvhich vvas euer counted so beneficiall to the liue and deade The punishment of our sinnes by the heâ—uy losse thereof The great hatred vvhich the deuill and all his side hath euer borne tovvardes Christes eternall priesthood and the sacrifice of the Church And that by the sayd sacrifice of the Masse the soules departed are especially relieued 288. chapter 9 That the practise of any poynt in religion maketh the most opeÌ„ shevv of the fathers faith And that all holy men haue in plain vvordes and most godly prayers vttered their beliefe in our matter 304. chapter 10 That vve all nations receiued this vsage of praying sacrificing for the departed at our first conuersion to Christes faith And that this article vvas not onely confirmed by miracle amongest the rest but seuerally by signes and vvonders approued by it selfe And that the Church is grovvne to such bevvty by the frute of this faith 328. chapter 11 That in euery order or vsage of celebration of the blessed Sacrament and Sacrifice throughout the Christian vvorlde since Christes time there hath ben a solemne supplicatioÌ„ for the soules departed 347. chapter 12 The heretikes of our tyme and cuntry be yet further vrged vvith the practise of prayers for the deceased their contrary coÌ„munion is compared vvith the olde vsage of celebration â—hey are ashamed of the first originall of their Christian faith they are vveary of their ovvne seruice they are kept in order by the vvisdome of the ciuill Magistrates and are forced to refuse all the doctors 364. chapter 13 That the praying for the deade vvas appoynted to be had in the holy sacrifice by the Apostles commaundement and prescription And that our doctors by the maiestie of their name beare dovvne our light aduersaries 386. chapter 14 The first author of that sect vvhich denyeth prayers for the departed is noted his good conditions and cause of his error be opened vvhat kind of men haue bene most bent in all ages to that sect And that this heresie is euer ioyned as a fitte compagnion to other horrible sectes 407. chapter 15 Their falshood is condemned and the Catholike truth approued by the authority of holy Councells Their pride in contemning the Catholikes humility in obedient receiuing the same And a sleight vvhereby the heretikes deceiue the people is detected 424. chapter 16 An aunsvvere to such arguments as the heretikes doe frame of the holy scriptures not vvell vnderstanded against the practise of Gods Church in praying for the deade or the doctrine of Purgatory 436. chapter 17 An aunsvvere to their negatiue argument vvith the Conclusion of the booke 448. FINIS