you say No and that the examining the Controversy between the Magistrate and the Dissenter in this case will not bring him to the Knowledg of the Truth you consess your Rule to be false and your Method to no purpose To conclude your System is in short this You would have all Men laying aside Prejudice Humour Passion c. examine the Grounds of their Religion and search for the Truth This I consess is heartily to be wish'd The means that you propose to make Men do this is that Dissenters should be punished to make them do so It is as if you had said Men generally are guilty of a Fault therefore let one Sect who have the ill luck to be of an Opinion different from the Magistrate be punished This at first Sight shocks any one who has the least Spark of Sense Reason or Justice But having spoken of this already and concluding that upon second Thoughts you your self will be ashamed of it let us consider it put so as to be consistent with common Sense and with all the Advantage it can bear and then let us see what you can make of it Men are negligent in examining the Religions they imbrace refuse or persist in therefore it is fit they should be punished to make them do it This is a Consequence indeed which may without Defiance to common Sense be drawn from it This is the Use the only Use which you think Punishment can indirectly and at a distance have in matters of Religion You would have Men by Punishments driven to examine What Religion To what end To bring them to the Knowledg of the Truth But I answer First Every one has not the Ability to do this Secondly Every one has not the Opportunity to do it Would you have every poor Protestant for example in the Palatinate examine throughly whether the Pope be infallible or Head of the Church whether there be a Purgatory whether Saints are to be pray'd to or the Dead pray'd for whether the Scripture be the only Rule of Faith whether there be no Salvation out of the Church and whether there be no Church without Bishops and an hundred other Questions in Controversy between the Papists and those Protestants and when he had master'd these go on to fortify himself against the Opinions and Objections of other Churches he differs from This which is no small Task must be done before a Man can have brought his Religion to the Bar of Reason and given it fair Trial there And if you will punish Men till this be done the Country-man must leave off plowing and sowing and betake himself to the Study of Greek and Latin and the Artisan must sell his Tools to buy Fathers and School-men and leave his Family to starve If something less than this will satisfy you pray tell me what is enough Have they considered and examined enough if they are satisfied themselves where the Truth lies If this be the Limits of their Examination you will find few to punish unless you will punish them to make them do what they have done already For however he came by his Religion there is scarce any one to be found who does not own himself satisfied that he is in the right Or else must they be punished to make them consider and examine till they imbrace that which you chuse for Truth If this be so what do you but in effect chuse for them when yet you would have Men punished To bring them to such a Care of their Souls that no other Person might chuse for them If it be Truth in general you would have them by Punishments driven to seek that is to offer matter of Dispute and not a Rule of Discipline For to punish any one to make him seek till he find Truth without a Judg of Truth is to punish for you know not what and is all one as if you should whip a Scholar to make him find out the square Root of a Number you do not know I wonder not therefore that you could not resolve with your self what degree of Severity you would have used nor how long continued when you dare not speak out directly whom you would have punished and are far from being clear to what end they should be under Penalties Consonant to this Uncertainty of whom or what to be punished you tell us That there is no Question of the Success of this Method Force will certainly do if duly proportioned to the Design of it What I pray is the Design of it I challenge you or any Man living out of what you have said in your Book to tell me directly what it is In all other Punishments that ever I heard of yet till now that you have taught the World a new Method the Design of them has been to cure the Crime they are denounced against and so I think it ought to be here What I beseech you is the Crime here Dissenting That you say not any where is a Fault Besides you tell us That the Magistrate hath not an Authority to compel any one to his Religion And that you do not require that Men should have no Rule but the Religion of the Country And the Power you ascribe to the Magistrate is given him to bring Men not to his own but to the true Religion If Dissenting be not the Fault is it that a Man does not examine his own Religion and the Grounds of it Is that the Crime your Punishments are designed to cure Neither that dare you say lest you displease more than you satisfy with your new Discipline And then again as I said before you must tell us how far you would have them examine before you punish them for not doing it And I imagine if that were all we required of you it would be long enough before you would trouble us with a Law that should prescribe to every one how far he was to examine Matters of Religion wherein if he fail'd and came short he was to be punished if he perform'd and went in his Examination to the Bounds set by the Law he was acquitted and free Sir when you consider it again you will perhaps think this a Case reserv'd to the Great Day when the Secrets of all Hearts shall be laid open For I imagine it is beyond the Power or Judgment of Man in that Variety of Circumstances in respect of Parts Tempers Opportunities Helps c. Men are in in this World to determine what is every one's Duty in this great Business of Search Inquiry Examination or to know when any one has done it That which makes me believe you will be of this Mind is that where you undertake for the success of this Method if rightly used it is with a Limitation upon such as are not altogether incurable So that when your Remedy is prepared according to Art which Art is yet unknown and rightly apply'd and given in a due Dose all which are Secrets
Punishments are fit till you have shewed some others either by Name or such Marks as they may certainly be known by which are fit to promote the true Religion and therefore nothing you have said there or any where else will serve to shew that 't is with little reason as you tell me that I say that if your indirect and at a distance Serviceableness may authorize the Magistrate to use Force in Religion all the Cruelties used by the Heathens against Christians by Papists against Protestants and all the Persecuting of Christians one amongst another are all justifiable To which you add Not to take notice at present how oddly it sounds that that which authorizes the Magistrates to use moderate Penalties to promote the true Religion should justify all the Cruelties that ever were used to promote Heathenism or Popery As oddly as it sounds to you it will be evidently true as long as that which authorizes one authorizes all Magistrates of any Religion which they believe to be true to use Force to premote it and as long as you cannot assign any Bounds to your moderate Punishments short of those great ones which you therefore are not able to do because your Principles whatever your Words deny will carry you to those Degrees of Severity which in Profession you condemn and this whatever you do I dare say every considering Reader besides you will plainly see So that this Imputation is not so unreasonable since it is evident that you must either renounce all Punishments whatsoever in Religion or make use of those you condemn for in the next Page you tell us That all who have â—…fficient means of Instrucâ—…ion provided for them may justly be punished for not being of the National Religion where the True is the National Religion because it is a Fault in all such not to be of the National Religiâ—… In England then for example not to be of the National 〈◊〉 is a Fault and a Fault to be punished by the Magistrate The Magistrate to cure this Fault lays on those who dissent a lower degree of Penalties a Fine of 1 d. per Month. This proving insufficient what is the Magistrate to do If he be obliged as you say to amend this Fault by Penalties and that low one of 1 d. per Month be not sufficient to procure its Amendment is he not to increase the Penalty He therefore doubles the Fine to 2 d. per Month. This too proves ineffectual and therefore 't is still for the same reason doubled till it come to 1 s. 5 s. 10 l. 100 l. 1000 l. None of these Penalties working but yet by being constantly levied leaving the Delinquents no longer able to pay Imprisonment and other corporal Punishments follow to inforce an Obedience till at last this gradual Increase of Penalties and Force each Degree whereof wrought on some few rises to the highest Severities against those who stand out For the Magistrate who is obliged to correct this Vice as you call it and to do what in him lies to cure this Fault which opposes their Salvation and who if I mistake not you tell us is answerable for all that may follow from his neglect had no reason to raise the Fine from 1 d. to 2 d. but because the first was ineffectual and if that were a sufficient reason for raising from the first to the second Degree why is it not as sufficient to proceed from the second to the third and so gradually on I would fain have any one shew me where and upon what ground such a gradual increase of Force can stop till it come to the utmost Extremities If therefore dissenting from the Church of England be a Fault to be punished by the Magistrate I desire you to tell me where he shall hold his Hand to name the Sort or Degree of Punishment beyond which he ought not to go in the use of Force to cure them of that Fault and bring them to Conformity Till you have done that you might have spared that Paragraph where you say With what Ingenuity I draw you in to condemn Force in general only because you acknowledg the ill Effects of prosecuting Men with Fire and Sword c. you may leave every Man to judg And I leave whom you will to judg whether from your own Principles it does not unavoidably follow that if you condemn any Penalties you must condemn all as I have shewn if you will retain any you must retain all you must either take or leave all together For as I have said and you deny not ` Where there ` is no Fault there no Punishment is moderate so I add Where there is a Fault to be corrected by the Magistrate's Force there no Degree of Force which is ineffectual and not sufficient to amend it can be immoderate especially if it be a Fault of great moment in its Consequences as certainly that must be which draws after it the loss of Mens Eternal Happiness You will 't is likely be ready to say here again for a good Subterfuge is never to be forsaken that you except the desperately perverse and obstinate I desire to know for what reason you except them Is it because they cease to be faulty Next I ask you Who are in your sense the desperately perverse and obstinate Those that 1 s. or 5 s. or 5 l. or 100 l. or no Fine will work upon Those who can bear loss of Estate but not loss of Liberty or loss of Liberty and Estate but not corporal Pains and Torments or all this but not loss of Life For to these Degrees do Men differently stand out And since there are Men wrought on by the Approaches of Fire and Faggot which other Degrees of Severity could not prevail with where will you bound your desperately perverse and obstinate The King of France though you will allow him not to have Truth of his side yet when he came to Dragooning found sew so desperately perverse and obstinate as not to be wrought on And why should Truth which in your Opinion wants Force and nothing but Force to help it not have the assistance of those Degrees of Force when less will not do to make it prevail which are able to bring Men over to false Religions whiâ—…h have no Light and Strength of their own to help them You wiâ—…l do well therefore to consider whether your Name of Severities in opposition to the moderate Punishments you speak of has or can do you any service whether the distinction between compelling and coactive Power be of any use or difference at all For you deny the Magistrate to have Power to compel And you contend for his use of his coactive Power which will then be a good Distinction when you can find a way to use coactive or which is the same compelling Power without Compulsion I desire you also to consider if in Matters of Religion Punishments are to be imployed because they
for Religion and learned Men who have imploy'd their Skill to make it good But till you shew us in what Ages or Countries your moderate Establishments were in Fashion and where they were again removed to make way for our Author's Toleration you to as little purpose talk of the Fruits of them as if you should talk of the Fruit of a Tree which no Body planted or was no where suffered to grow till one might see what Fruit came from it Having laid it down as one of the Conditions for a fair debate of this Controversy ` That it should be without supposing all along your Church in the right and your Religion the true I add these words Which can no more be allow'd to you IN THIS CASE whatever your Church or Religion be than it can be to a Papist or a Lutheran a Presbyterian or an Anabaptist nay no more to you than it can be allow'd to a Jew or Mahometan To which you reply No Sir Not whatever your Church or Religion be That seems somewhat hard And you think I might have given you some reason for what I say For certainly it is not so self-evident as to need no proof But you think it is no hard matter to guess at my Reason though I did not think fit expresty to own it For 't is obvious enough there can be no other Reason for this Assertion of mine but either the equal Truth or at least the equal Certainty or Vncertainty of all Religions For whoever considers my Assertion must see that to make it good I shall be obliged to maintain one of these two things Either 1. That no Religion is the true Religion in opposition to other Religions Which makes all Religions true or false and so either way indifferent Or 2. That though some one Religion be the true Religion yet no Man can have any more Reason than another Man of another Religion may have to believe his to be the true Religion Which makes all Religions equally certain or uncertain whether I please and so renders it vain and idle to enquire after the true Religion and only a piece of good luck if any Man be of it and such good luck as he can never know that he has till he come into the other World Whether of these two Principles I will own you know not But certainly one or other of them lies at the bottom with me and is the lurking Supposition upon which I build all that I say Certainly no Sir neither of these Reasons you have so ingenuously and friendly found out for me lies at the bottom but this That whatever Privilege or Power you claim upon your supposing yours to be the true Religion is equally due to another who supposes his to be the true Religion upon the same claim and therefore that is no more to be allow'd to you than to him For whose is really the true Religion yours or his being the matter in contest betwixt you your supposing can no more determine it on your side than his supposing on his unless you can think you have a right to judg in your own Cause You believe yours to be the true Religion so does he believe his you say you are certain of it so says he he is you think you have Arguments proper and sufficient to convince him if he would consider them the same thinks he of his If this claim which is equally on both sides be allow'd to either without any Proof 't is plain he iâ—… whose favour it is allow'd is allow'd to be Judg in his own Cause which no body can have a Right to be who is not at least infallible If you come to Arguments and Proofs which you must do befoâ—…e it can be determin'd whose is the True Religion 't is plain your Supposition is not allow'd In our present case in using Punishments in Religion your supposing yours to be the True Religion gives you or your Magistrate no more Advantage over a Papist Presbyterian or Mahometan or more Reason to punish either of them for his Religion than the same Supposition in a Papist Presbyterian or Mahometan gives any of them or a Magistrate of their Religion advantage over you or reason to punish you for your Religion and therefore this Supposition to any purpose or privilege of using of Force is no more to be allow'd to you than to any one of any other Religion This the words IN THIS CASE which I there used would have satisfied any other to have been my meaning But whether your Charity made you not to take notice of them or the Joy of such an Advantage as this not to understand them this is certain you were resolved not to lose the Opportunity such a place as this afforded you of shewing your Gift in commenting and guessing shrewdly at a Man's Reasons when he does not think fit expresly to own them himself I must own you have a very lucky hand at it and as you do it here upon the same ground so it is just with the same Success as you in another place have exercis'd your Logick on my saying something to the same purpose as I do here But Sir if you will add but one more to your plentiful stock of Distinctions and observe the difference there is between the ground of any one's supposing his Religion is true and the Privilege he may pretend to by supposing it true you will never stumble aâ—… this again but you will find that though upon the former of these Accounts Men of all Religions cannot be equally allow'd to suppose their Religions true yet in reference to the Latter the Supposition may and ought to be allow'd or deny'd equally to all Men. And the reason of it is plain viz. because the Assurance wherewith one Man supposes his Religion to be true being no more an Argument of its Truth to another than vice versâ neither of them can claim by the Assurance wherewith he supposes his Religion the True any Prerogative or Power over the other which the other has not by the same Title an equal Claim to over him If this will not serve to spare you the pains another time of any more such Reasonings as we have twice had on this Subject I think I shall be forced to send you to my Mahometans or Pagans and I doubt whether I am not less civil to your Parts than I should be that I do not send you to them now You go on and say But as uâ—…reasonable as this Condition is you see no need you have to decline it nor any occasion I had to impose it upon you For certainly the making what I call your new Method consâ—…ltent and practicable does no way oblige you to suppose all along your Religion the True as I imagine And as I imagine it does For without that Supposition I would fain have you shew me how it is in any one Country practicable to punish Men to bâ—…ing them to
A THIRD LETTER FOR TOLERATION TO THE AUTHOR OF THE THIRD LETTER CONCERNING Toleration LONDON Printed for Awnsham and John Churchill at the Black Swan in Pater-Noster-Row MDC XCII The Reader may be pleased to take notice that L. 1. Stands for the Letter concerning Toleration A. For the Argument of the Letter concerning Toleraration briefly consider'd and answer'd L. 2. The Second Letter concerning Toleration P. The Pages of the Third Letter concerning Toleration A Third LETTER for Toleration CHAP. I. SIR THE Business which your Letter concerning Toleration found me ingaged in has taken up so much of the time my Health would allow me ever since that I doubt whether I should now at all have troubled you or the World with an Answer had not some of my Friends sufficiently satisfied of the Weakness of your Arguments with repeated Instances perswaded me it might be of use to Truth in a Point of so great Moment to â—…lear it from those Fallacies which might perhaps puzzle some unwary Readers and therefore prevailed on me to shew the wrong Grounds and mistaken Reasonings you make use of to support your new way of Persecution Pardon me Sir that I use that Name which you are so much offended at for if Punishment be Punishment though it come short of the Discipline of Fire and Faggot 't is as certain that Punishment for Religion is truly Persecution though it be only such Punishment as you in your Clemency think fit to call moderate and convenient Penalties But however you please to call them I doubt not but to let you see that if you will be true to your own Principles and stand to what you have said you must carry your some â—…egrees of Force as you phrase it to all these Degrees which in Words you declare against You have indeed in this last Letter of yours altered the Question for pag. 26. you tell me the Question between us is Whether the Magistrate hath any Right to use Force to bring Men to the true Religion Whereas you your self own the Question to be Whether the Magistrate has a Right to use Force in matters of Religion Whether this Alteration be at all to the Advantage of Truth or your Cause we shall see But hence you take occasion â—…ll along to lay load on me for charging you with the Absurdities of a Power in the Magistrates to punish Men to bring them to their Religion Whereas you here tell us they have a Right to use Force only to bring Men to the true But whether I were more to blame to suppose you to talk coherently and mean Sense or you in expressing your self so doubtfully and uncertainly where you were concerned to be plain and direct I shall leave to our Readers to judg only here in the Beginning I shall endeavour to clear my self of that Imputation I so often meet with of charging on you Consequences you do not own and arguing against an Opinion that is not yours in those Places where I shew how little Advantage it would be to Truth or the Salvation of Mens Souls that all Magistrates should have a Right to use Force to bring Men to imbrace their Religion This I shall do by proving that if upon your Grounds the Magistrate as you pretend be obliged to use Force to bring Men to the true Religion it will necessarily follow that every Magistrate who believes his Religion to be true is obliged to use Force to bring Men to his You tell us That by the Law of Nature the Magistrate is invested with coactive Power and obliged to use it for all the good Purposes which it might serve and for which it should be found needful even for the restraining of false and corrupt Religion And that it is the Magistrate's Duty to which he is commissioned by the Law of Nature but the Scipture does not properly give it him I suppose you will grant me that any thing laid upon the Magistrate as a Duty is some way or other practicable Now the Magistrate being obliged to use Force in Matters of Religion but yet so as to bring Men only to the true Religion he will not be in any Capacity to perform this part of his Duty unless the Religion he is thus to promote be what he can certainly know or else what it is sufficient for him to believe to be the true Either his Knowledg or his Opinion must point out that Religion to him which he is by Force to promote or else he may promiscuously and indifferently promote any Religion and punish Men at a venture to bring them from that they are in to any other This last I think no body has been so wild as to say If therefore it must be either his Knowledg or his Perswasion that must guide the Magistrate herein and keep him within the Bounds of his Duty if the Magistrates of the World cannot know certainly know the true Religion to be the true Religion but it be of a Nature to exercise their Faith for where Vision Knowledg and Certainty is there Faith is done away then that which gives them the last Determination herein must be their own Belief their own Perswasion To you and me the Christian Religion is the true and that is built to mention no other Articles of it on this that Jesus Christ was put to Death at Jerusalem and rose again from the Dead Now do you or I know this I do not ask with what Assurance we believe it for that in the highest Degree not being Knowledg is not what we now inquire aâ—…ter Can any Magistrate demonstrate to himself and if he can to himself he does ill not to do it to others not only all the Aâ—…ticles of his Church but the Fundamental ones of the Christian Religion For whatever is not capable of Demonstration as such remote Matters of Fact are not is not unless it be self-evident capable to produce Knowledg how well grounded and great soever the Assurance of Faith may be wherewith it is received but Faith it is still and not Knowledg Perswasion and not Certainty This is the highest the Nature of the thing will permit us to go in â—…atters of revealed Religion which are therefore called Matters of Faith A Perswasion of our own Minds short of Knowledg is the last Result that determines us in such Truths 'T is all God requires in the Gospel for Men to be saved and 't would be strange if there were more required of the Magistrate for the Direction of another in the way to Salvation than is required of him for his own Salvation Knowledg then properly so called not being to be had of the Truths necessary to Salvation the Magistrate must be content with Faith and Perswasion for the Rule of that Truth he will recommend and inforce upon others as well as of that whereon he will venture his own eternal Condition If therefore it be the Magistrates Duty to use Force to bring Men
to the true Religion it can be only to that Religion which he believes to be true So that if Force be at all to be used by the Magistrate in Matters of Religion it can only be for the promoting that Religion which he only believes to be true or none at all I grant that a strong Assurance of any Truth settled upon prevalent and well-grounded Arguments of Probability is often called Knowledg in popular ways of Talking but being here to distinguish between Knowledg and Belief to what Degrees of Considence soever raised their Boundaries must be kept and their Names not confounded I know not what greater Pledg a Man can give of a full Perswasion of the Truth of any thing than his venturing his Soul upon it as he does who sincerely imbraces any Religion and receives it for true But to what Degree soever of Assurance his Faith may rise it still comes short of Knowledg Nor can any one now I think arrive to greater Evidence of the Truth of the Christian Religion than the first Converts in the time of our Saviour and the Apostles had of whom yet nothing more was required but to believe But supposing all the Truths of the Christian Religion necessary to Salvation could be so known to the Magistrate that in his Use of Force for the bringing Men to imbrace these he could be guided by infallible Certainty yet I fear this would not serve your turn nor authorize the Magistrate to use Force to bring Men in England or any where else into the Communion of the National Church in which Ceremonies of humane Institution were imposed which could not be known nor being confessed things in their own Nature indifferent so much as thought necessary to Salvation But of this I shall have occasion to speak in another Place all the Use I make of it here is to shew that the Cross in Baptism kneeling at the Sacrament and such like things being impossible to be known necessary to Salvation a certain knowledg of the Truth of the Articles of Faith of any Church could not authorize the Magistrate to compel Men to imbraâ—… the Communion of that Church wherein any thing were made necessary to Communion which he did not know was necessary to Salvation By what has been already said I suppose it is evident that if the Magistrate be to use Force only for promoting the true Religion he can have no other Guide but his own Perswasion of what is the true Religion and must be led by that in his Use of Force or else not use it at all in matters of Religion If you take the latter of these Consequences you and I are agreed if the former you must allow all Magistrates of whatsoever Religion the Use of Force to bring Men to theirs and so be involved in all those ill Consequences which you cannot it seems admit and hoped to decline by your useless Distinction of Force to be usâ—…d not for any but for the true Religion 'T is the Dâ—…y you say of the Magistrate to use Force for proâ—…ing the true Religion And in several Places you tell us he is oâ—…liged to it Perswade Magistrates in general of this and then â—…ll me how any Magistrate shall be restrained from the Use of Force for the promoting what he thinks to be the true For he being perswaded that it is his Duty to use Force to promote the true Religion and being also perswaded his is the true Religion What shall stop his Hand Must he forbear the Use of Force till he be got beyond believing into a certain Knowledg that all he requires Men to imbrace is necessary to Salvation If that be it you will stand to you have my Consent and I think there will be no need of any other Toleration But if the believing his Religion to be the true be sufficient for the Magistrate to use Force for the promoting of it will it be so only to the Magistrates of the Religion that you proâ—…ss And must all other Magistrates sit still and not do their Duty till they have your Permission If it be your Magistrate's Duty to use Force for the promoting the Religion he believes to be the true it will be every Magistrate's Duty to use Force for the promoting what he believes to be the true and he sins if he does not receive and promote it as if it were true If you will not take this upon my Word yet I desire you to do it upon the strong Reason of a very judicious and reverend Prelate of the present Church of England In a discourse concerning Conscience printed in 4to 87. p. 18. You will find these following Words and much more to this Purpose Where a Man is mistaken in his Judgment even in that Case it is always a Sin to act against it Though we should take that for a Duty which is really a Sin yet so long as we are thus perswaded it will be highly criminal in us to act in contradiction to this Perswasion and the Reason of this is evident because by so doing we wilfully act against the best Light which at present we have for the Direction of our Actions So that when all is done the immediate Guide of our Actions can be nothing but our Conscience our Judgment and Perswasion If a Man for Instance should of a Jew become a Christian whilst yet in his Heart he believed that the Messiah is not yet come and that our Lord Jesus was an Impostor Or if a Papist should renounce the Communion of the Roman Church and join with ours whilst yet he is perswaded that the Roman Church is the only Catholick Church and that our Reformed Churches are Heretical or Schismatical though now there is none of us that will dâ—…ny that the Men in both these Cases have made a good Change as having changed a false Religion for â—…ruo one yet for all that I dare say we should all agree they were both of them great Villains for making that Change becauso they made it not upon honest Principles and in pursuance of their Judgment but in direct contradiction to both So that it being the Magistrate's Duty to use Force to bring Men to the â—…rue Religion and he being perswaded his is the true I suppose you will no longer question but that he is as much obliged to use Force to bring Men to it as if it were the true And then Sir I hope you have too much Respect for Magistrates not to allow them to believe the Religions to be true which they profess These things put together I desire you to consider whether if Magistrates are obliged to use Force to bring Men to the true Religion every Magistrate is not oblig'd to use Force to bring Men to that Religion he believes to be true This being so I hope I have not argued so wholly besides the purpose as you all through your Letter accuse me for charging on your Doctrine all the ill
the Atheists as you call them who do so give the People up in every Country to the coactive Force of the Magistrate to be employed for the assisting the Minisâ—… of his Religion And King Lewis of good right comes in with his Dragoons for 't is not much doubted that he as strongly believed his Popish Priests and Jesuits to be the Ministry which our Lord appointed as either King Charles or King James the 2d believed that of the Church of England to be so And of what use such an exercise of the coactive Power of all Magistrates is to the People or to the true Religion you are concerned to shew But 't is you know but to tell me I only trifâ—…e and this is all answered What in other places you tell us is to make Men hear consider study imbrace and bring Men to the true Religion you here do very well to tell us is to assist the Ministry and to that 't is true common Experience discovers the Magistrate's coactive Force to be useful and necessary viz. to those who taking the Reward but not over-busying themselves in the care of Souls find it for their Ease that the Magistrates coactive Power should supply their want of Pastoral Care and be made use of to bring those into an outward Consormity to the National Church whom either for want of Ability they cannot or want of due and friendly Application join'd with an exemplary Life they never so much as endeavoured to prevail on heartily to embrace it That there may be such Neglects in the best-constituted National Church in the World the Complaints of a very knowing Bishop of our Church in a late Discourse of the PASTORAL CARE is too plain an Evidence Without so great an Authority I should scarce have ventured though it lay just in my way to have taken notice of what is so visible that it is in every one's Mouth for fear you should have told me again that I made my self an occasion to shew my Good-will toward the Clergy For you will not I suppose suspect that eminent Prelate to have any Ill-will to them If this were not so that some were negligent I imagine the Preachers of the True Religion which lies as you tell us so obvious and exposed as to be easily distinguish'd from the False would need or desire no other Assistance from the Magistrates coactive Power but what should be directed against the Irregularity of Mens Lives their Lusts being that alone as you tell us that makes Force necessary to assist the true Religion which were it not for our depraved Nature would by its Light and Reasonableness have the advantage against all salâ—…e Religions You tell us too That the Magistrate may impose Creeds and Ceremonies indeed you say sound Creeds and decent Ceremonies but that helps not your Cause for who must be Judg of that sound and that decent If the Imposer then those Words signify nothing at all but that the Magistrate may impose those Creeds and Ceremonies which he thinks sound and decent which is in effect such as he thinks â—…t Indeed you telling us a little above in the same page that it is a Vice not to worship God in Ways prescribed by those to whom God has left the ordering of such Matters you seem to make other Judges of what is sound and decent and the Magistrate but the Executor of their Decrees with the Assistance of his coactive Power A pretty Foundation to establish Creeds and Ceremonies on that God has lest the ordering of them to those who cannot impose them and the imposing of them to those who cannot order them But still the same Difficulty returns for after they have prescribed must the Magistrate judg them to be sound and decent or must he impose them though he judg them not sound or decent If he must judg them so himself we are but where we were if he must impose them when prescribed though he judg them not sound nor decent 't is a pretty sort of Drudgery is put on the Magistrate And how far is this short of implicite Faith But if he must not judg what is sound and decent he must judg at least who are those to whom God has left the ordering of such Matters and then the King of France is ready again with his Dragoons for the sound Doctrine and decent Ceremonies of his Prescribers in the Council of Trent and that upon this ground with as good right as any other has for the Prescriptions of any others Do not mistake me again Sir I do not say he judges as right but I do say that whilst he judges the Council of Trent or the Clergy of Rome to be those to whom God has left the ordering of those Matters he has as much right to follow their Decrees as any other to sollow the Judgment of any other Set of mortal Men whom he believes to be so But whoever is to be Judg of what is sound or decent in the case I ask Of what Vse and Necessity is it to impose Creeds and Ceremonies for that Vse and Necâ—…ssuy iâ—… all the Commission you can sind the Magistrate hath to use his coactive Power to impose them 1. Of what Use and Necessity is it among Christians that own the Scripture to be the Word of God and Rule os Faith to make and impose a Creed What Commission for this hath the Magistrate from the Law of Nature God hath given a Revelation that contains in it all things necessary to Salvation and of this his People are all perswadâ—…d What Necessity now is there How does their Good require it that the Magistrate should single out as he thinks sit any number of those Truths as more necessary to Salvation than the rest if God himself has not done it 2. But next are these Creeds in the Words of the Scripture or not If they are they are certainly sound as containing nothing but Truth in them and so they were before as they lay in the Scripture But thus though they contain nothing but sound Truths yet they may be imperfect and so unsound Rules of Faith since they may require more or less than God requires to be believed as necessary to Salvation For what greater necessity I pray is there that a Man should believe that Christ suffered under Pontius Pilate than that he was born at Bethlehem of Judah Both are certainly true and no Christian doubts of either But how comes one to be made an Article of Faith and imposed by the Magistrate as necessary to Salvation for otherwise there can be no necessity of Imposition and the other not Do not mistake me here as if I would lay by that Summary of the Christian Religion which is contained in that which is called the Apostles Creed which though no body who examines the Matter will have reason to conclude of the Apostles compiling yet is certainly of reverend Antiquity and ought still to be preserved in
be said to be of absolute necessity where the thing it relates to is not absolutely necessary We may say Wisdom and Power in God are absolutely necessary because God himself is absolutely necessary but we cannot crudely say the curing in Men their Aversion to the true Religion is absolutely necessary because it is not absolutely necessary that Men should be saved But this is very proper and true to be said that curing this Aversion is absolutely necessary in all that shall be saved But I fear that would not serve your turn tho it be certain that your absolute Necessity in this case reaches no farther than this that to be cured of this Aversion is absolutely necessary to Salvation and Salvation is absolutely necessary to Happiness but neither of them nor the Happiness it self of any Man can be said to be absolutely necessary This Mistake makes you say that supposing the Stone certainly destructive of this temporal Life yet the necessity of curing it would be as much less than the necessity of curing that Aversion as this temporal Life falls short in value of that which is eternal Which is quite otherwise for if the Stone will certainly kill a Man without Cutting it is as absolutely necessary to cut a Man of the Stone for the saving of his Life as it is to cure the Aversion for the saving of his Soul Nay if you have but Eggs to fry Fire is as absolutely necessary as either of the other though the value of the End be in these Cases infinitely different for in one of them you lose only your Dinner in the other your Life and in the other your Soul But yet in these Cases Fire Cutting and Curing that Aversion are each of them absolutely and equally necessary to their respective Ends because those Ends cannot be attained without them You say farther Cutting for the Stone is not always necessary in order to the Cure But the Penalties you speak of are altogether necessary without extraordinary Grace to cure that pernicious and otherwise untractable Aversion Let it be so but do the Surgeons know who has this Stone this Aversion so that it will certainly destroy him unless he be cut Will you undertake to tell when the Aversion is such in any Man that it is incurable by Preaching Exhortation and Intreaty if his spiritual Physician will be instant with him in season and out of season but certainly curable if moderate Force be made use of Till you are sure of the former of these you can never say your moderate Force is necessary Till you are sure of the latter you can never say it is competent Means What you will determine concerning extraordinary Grace and when God bestows that I leave you to consider and speak clearly of it at your leisure You add That even where Cutting for the Stone is necessary it is withal hazardous by my Confession But your Penalties can no way endanger or hurt the Soul but by the Fault of him that undergoes them If the Magistrate use Force to bring Men to the true Religion he must judg which is the true Religion and he can judg no other to be it but that which he believes to be the true Religion which is his own Religion But for the Magistrate to use Force to bring Men to his own Religion has so much Danger in it to Mens Souls that by your own confession none but an Atheist will say that Magistrates may use Force to bring Men to their own Religion This I suppose is enough to make good all that I aimed at in my Instance of Cutting for the Stone which was that though it were judg'd useful and I add now necessary to cut Men for the Stone yet that was not enough to authorize Chirurgions to cut a Man but he must have besides that general one of doing good some more special Commission and that which I there mentioned was the Patient's Consent But you tell me That though as things now stand no Surgeon has any right to cut his calculous Patient without his Consent yet if the Magistrate should by a publick Law appoint and authorize a competent number of the most skilful in that Art to visit such as labour under that Disease and to cut those whether they consent or not whose Lives they unanimously judg it impossible to save otherwise you are apt to think I would find it hard to prove that in so doing he exceeded the Bounds of his Power And you are sure it would be as hard to prove that those Artists would have no right in that case to cut such Persons Shew such a Law from the great Governor of the Universe and I shall yield that your Surgeons shall go to work as fast as you please But where is the publick Law Where is the competent Number of Magistrates skilful in the Art who must unanimously judg of the Disease and its Danger You can shew nothing of all this yet you are so liberal of this sort of Cure that one cannot take you for less than cutting Morecraft himself But Sir if there were a competent number of skilful and impartial Men who were to use the Incision-Knife on all in whom they found this Stone of Aversion to the true Religion what do you think would they sind no Work in your Hospital Aversion to the true Religion you say is of absolute Necessity to be â—…ured What I beseech you is that true Religion that of the Church of England For that you own to be the only true Religion and whatever you say you cannot upon your Principles name any other National Religion in the World that you will own to be the true It being then of absolute Necessity that Mens Aversion to the National Religion of England should be cured Has all Mankind in whom it has been absolutely necessary to be cured been furnished with competent and necessary means for the Cure of this Aversion In the next Place what is your necessary and sufficient means for this Cure that is of absolute Necessity and that is moderate Penalties made use of by the Magistrate where the National is the true Religion and sufficient means are provided for all Mens Instruction in the true Religion And here again I ask Have all Men to whom this Cure is of absolute Necessity been furnished with this necessary means Thirdly How is your necessary Remedy to be applied And that is in a way wherein it cannot work the Cure though we should suppose the true Religion the National every where and all the Magistrates in the World zealous for it To this true Religion say you Men have a natural and great Aversion of absolute Necessity to be cured and the only Cure for it is Force your way applied i. e. Penalties must be laid upon all that dissent from the National Religion till they conform Why are Men averse to the true Because it crosses the Profits and Pleasures of this Life and for
the same Reason they have an Aversion to Penalties These therefore if they be opposed one to another and Penalties be so laid that Men must quit their Lusts and heartily imbrace the true Religion or else indure the Penalties there may be some Efficacy in Force towards bringing Men to the true Religion But if there be no Opposition between an outward Profession of the true Religion and Mens Lusts Penalties laid on Men till they outwardly conform are not a Remedy laid to the Disease Punishments so applied have no Opposition to Mens Lusts nor from thence can be expected any Cure Men must be driven from their Aversion to the true Religion by Penalties they have a greater Aversion to This is all the Operation of Force But if by getting into the Communion of the National Church they can avoid the Penalties and yet retain their natural Corruption and Aversion to the true Religion what Remedy is there to the Disease by Penalties so applied You would you say have Men made uneasy This no doubt will work on Men and make them indeavour to get out of this uneasy State as soon as they can But it will always be by that way wherein they can be most easy for 't is the Uneasiness alone they fly from and therefore they will not exchange one Uneasiness for another not for a greater nor an equal nor any at all if they can help it If therefore it be so uneasy for Men to mortify their Lusts as you tell us which the true Religion requires of them if they imbrace it in earnest But which outward Conformity to the true Religion or any National Church does not require what need or use is there of Force applied so that it meets not at all with Mens Lusts or Aversion to the true Religion but leaves them the liberty of a quiet Injoyment of them free from Force and Penalties in a legal and approved Consormity Is a Man negligent of his Soul and will not be brought to consider obstinate and will not imbrace the Truth Is he careless and will not be at the Pains to examine Matters of Religion corrupt and will not part with his Lusts which are dearer to him than his First-born 'T is but owning the National Profession and he may be so still If he conform the Magistrate has done punishing he is a Son of the Church and need not consider any thing farther for fear of Penalties they are removed and all is well So that at last there neither being an absolute Necessity that Aversion to the true Religion should in all Men be cured nor the Magistrate being a competent Judg who have this Stone of Aversion or who have it to that degree as to need Force to cure it or in whom it is curable were Force a proper Remedy as it is not nor having any Commission to use it notwithstanding what you have answered It is still not only as but more reasonable for the Magistrate upon pretence of its Usefulness or Necessity to cut any one for the Stone without his own Consent than to use Force your way to cure him of Aversion to the true Religion To my Question In whose Hands this Right we were a little above speaking of was in Turkey Persia or China you tell me You answer roundly and plainly in the Hands of the Soveraign to use convenient Penalties for the promoting the true Religion I will not trouble you here with a Question you will meet with elsewhere Who in these Countries must be Judg of the true Religion But I will ask Whether you or any wise Man would have put a Right of using Force into a Mahumetan or Pagan Prince's Hand for the promoting of Christianity which of my Pagans or Mahumetans would have done otherwise But God you say has done it and you make it good by telling me in the following Words If this startle me then you must tell me farther that you look upon the supream Power to be the same all the World over in what Hands soever it is placed and this Right to be contained in it And if those that have it do not use it as they ought but instead of promoting true Religion by proper Penalties set themselves to enforce Mahumetanism or Paganism or any other false Religion All that can or that needs be said to the matter is that God will one Day call them to an Account for the Neglect of their Duty for the Dishonour they do to him and for the Souls that perish by their Fault Your taking this Right to be a part of the supream Power of all Civil Sovereigns which is the thing in Question is not as I take it proving it to be so But let us take it so for once what then is your Answer God will one Day call those Sovereigns to an Account for the Neglect of their Duty The Question is not What God will do with the Soveraigns who have neglected their Duty but how Mankind is furnished with your competent Means for the promoting of God's Honour in the World and the good of Souls in Countries where the Soveraign is of a wrong Religion For there how clearly soever the Right of using it be in the Soveraign yet as long as he uses not Force to bring his Subjects to the true Religion they are destitute of your competent means For I imagine you do not make the Right to use that Force but the actual Application of it by Penal Laws to be your useful and necessary Means For if you think the bare having that Right be enough if that be your sufficient Means without the actual Use of Force we readily allow it you And as I tell you elsewhere I see not then what need you had of Miracles to supply the Want of the Magistrates Assistance till Christianity was supported and incouraged by the Laws of the Empire For by your own Rule the Magistrates of the World during the three first Centuries after the publishing the Christian Religion had the same Right if that had been enough that they have now in Turkey Persia or China That this is all that can be said in this matter I easily grant you but that it is all that needs be said to make good your Doctrine I must beg your Pardon In the same Sentence wherein you tell me I should have added Necessity to Vsefulness I call it necessary Usefulness which I imagine is not much different But that with the following Words wherein my Argument lay had the ill luck to be overseen but if you please to take my Argument as I have now again laid it before you it will serve my turn In your next Paragraph you tell me that what is said by me is with the same Ingenuity I have used in other places my Words in that Place are these The Author having indeavoured to shew that no Body at all of any Rank or Condition had any Power to punish torment or use any Man ill
Religion to make me consider without knowing my Thoughts concerning Religion we will suppose you being of the Church of England would examine me in the Catechism and Liturgy of that Church which possibly I could neither say nor answer right to 'T is like upon this you would judg me fit to be puâ—…ished to make me consider Wherein 't is evident you judg'd for me that the Religion of the Church of England was right for without that Judgment of yours you would not have punished me We will suppose you to go yet farther and examine me concerning the Gospel and the Truth of the Principles of the Christian Religion and you find me answer therein not to your liking here again no doubt you will pâ—…nish me to make me consider but is it not because you judg for me that the Christian Religion is the right Go on thus as far as you will and till you find I had no Religion at all you could not punish me to make me to consider without taking upon you to judg for me what is right in Matters of Religion To punish without a Fault is Injustice and to punish a Man without judging him guilty of that Fault is also Injustice and to punish a Man who has any Religion to make him consider or which is the same thing for not having sufficiently considered is no more nor less but punishing him for not being of the Religion you think best for him that is the Fault and that is the Fault you judg him guilty of call it considering as you please for let him fall into the Hands of a Magistrate of whose Religion he is he judgeth him to have considered sufficiently From whence 't is plain 't is Religion is judg'd of and not Consideration or want of Consideration And 't is in vain to pretend that he is punish'd to make him judg for himself for he that is of any Religion has already judg'd for himself and if you punish him after that under pretence to make him consider that he may judg for himself 't is plain you punish him to make him judg otherwise than he has already judg'd and to judg as you have judg'd for him Your next Paragraph complains of my not having contradicted the following Words of yours which I had cited out of your A. p. 26. which that the Reader may judg of I shall here set down again And all the Hurt that comes to them by it is only the suffering some tolerable Inconveniences for their following the Light of their own Reason and the Dictates of their own Consciences which certainly is no such Mischief to Mankind as to make it more eligible that there should be no such Power vested in the Magistrate but the Care of every Man's Soul should be left to him alone as this Author demands it should be that is that every Man should be suffered quietly and without the least molestation either to take no care at all of his Soul if he be so pleased or in doing it to follow his own groundless Prejudices or unaccountable Humour or any crafty Seducer whom he may think fit to take for his Guide To which I shall here subjoin my Answer and your Reply L. 2. p. 67. Why should not the care of every Man's Soul be left to himself rather than the Magistrate Is the Magistrate like to be more concern'd for it Is the Magistrate like to take more care of it Is the Magistrat commonly more careful of his own than other Men are of theirs Will you say the Magistrate is less expos'd in Matters of Religion to Prejudices Humours and crafty Seducers than other Men If you cannot lay your Hand on your Heart and say all this What then will be got by the change And why may not the Care of every Man's Soul be left to himself Especially if a Man be in so much danger to miss the Truth who is suffered quietly and without the least 〈◊〉 either to take no care of his Soul if he be so pleased or to follow his own Prejudices c. For if want of Molestation be the dangerous State wherein Men are likeliest to miss the right way it must be confessed that of all Men the Magistrate is most in danger to be in the wrong and so the unfittest if you take the Care of Mens Souls from themselves of all Men to be intrusted with it For he never meâ—… with that great and only 〈◊〉 of yours against Error which you here call Molestation He never has the benefit of your soverain Remedy Punishment to make him consider which you think so necessary that you look on it as a most dangerous State for Men to be without it and therefore tell us 'T is every Man's true 〈◊〉 not to be left wholly to himself in Matters of Religion L. 3. p. 76. 〈◊〉 Words you set down at large but instead of contradicting them or offering 〈◊〉 show that the Mischiâ—…t spoken of is such 〈◊〉 â—…akes it more eligible c. you only demanâ—… Why sâ—…uld not the Care of every Man's â—…l be leâ—… 〈◊〉 himself rather than the 〈◊〉 Is the Magistrate like to be more concern'd for it Is the Magistrate like to take more care of it c. As if not to leave the Care of every Man's Soul to himself alone were as you express it afterwards to take the Care of Mens Souls from themselves Or as if to vest a Power in the Magistrate to procure as much as in him lies i. e. as far as it can be procured by convenient Penalties that Men take such Care of their Souls as they ought to do were to leave the Care of their Souls to the Magistrate rather than to themselves Which no Man but your self will imagine I acknowledg as freely as you can do that as every Man is more concern'd than any Man else can be so he is likewise more obliged to take care of his Soul and that no Man can by any means be discharged of the Care of his Soul which when all is done will never be saved but by his own Care of it But do I contradict any thing of this when I say that the Care of every Man's Soul ought not to be left to himself alone or that it is the Interest of Mankind that the Magistrate be entrusted and obliged to take care as far as lies in him that no Man neglect his own Soul I thought I confess that every Man was iâ—… some sort charged with the Care of his Neighbour's Soul But in your way of reasoning he that affirms this takes away the Care of every Man's Soul 〈◊〉 himself and leaves it to his Neighbour rather than to himself But if this be plainly absurd as every one sees it is then so it must be likewise to say that he that vests such a Power as we here speak of in the Magistrate takes away the Care of Mens Souls from themselves and places it in the Magistrate rather than in
moderate and convenient both which Limitations having no other Judg but the Magistrate as I have shewed elsewhere are no Liâ—… at all you in Words add a third that in effect siâ—…nifies just as much as the other two and that is If there be sâ—…fficient means of Instruction provided for all for instructing them in the Truth of it of which Provision the Magistrate also being to be Judg your Limitationâ—… leave him as free to punish all Dissenters from his own Religion as any Persecutor can wish For what he will think sufficient Means of Instruction it will be hard for you to say In the mean time as far as may be gathered from what you say in another Place we will examine what you think sufficient Provision for instructing Men which you have expressed in these Words For if the Magistrate provides sufficiently for the Instruction of all his Subjects in the true Religion and then requires them all under convenient Penalties to hearken to the Teachers and Ministers of it and to profess and exercise it with one Accord under their Direction in publick Assemblies That which stumbles one at the first View of this your Method of Instruction is that you leave it uncertain whether Dissenters must first be instructed and then profess or else first profess and then be instructed in the National Religion This you will do well to be a little more clear in the next time for you mentioning no Instruction but in publick Assemblies and perhaps meaning it for a Country where there is little other Pains taken with Dissenters but the Confutation and Condemnation of them in Assemblies where they are not they must cease to be Dissenters before they can partake of this sufficient means of Instruction And now for those who do with one Accord put themselves under the Direction of the Ministers of the National and hearken to these Teachers of the true Religion I ask whether one half of those whereof most of the Assemblies are made up do or can so ignorant as they are understand what they hear from the Pulpit And then whether if a Man did understand what in many Assemblies ordinarily is delivered once a Week there for his Instruction he might not yet at threescore Years End be ignorant of the Grounds and Principles of the Christian Religion Your having so often in your Letter mentioned sufficient Provision of Instruction has forced these two short Questions from me But I forbear to tell you what I have heard very sober People even of the Church of England say upon this Occasion For you have warned me already that it shall be interpreted to be a Quarrel to the Clergy in general if any thing shall be taken notice of in any of them worthy to be mended I leave it to those whose Profession it is to judg whether Divinity be a Science wherein Men may be instructed by an Harangue or two onâ—…e a Week upon any Subject at a Venture which has no Coherence with that which preceded or that which is to follow and this made to People that are ignorant of the first Principles of it and are not capable of understanding such ways of Discourses I am sure he that should think this a sufficient Means of instructing People in any other Science would at the End of seven or twenty Years find them very little advanced in it And bating perhaps some Terms and Phrases belonging to it would be as far from all true and useful Knowledg of it as when they first began Whether it be so in Matterâ—… of Religion those who have the Oportunity to observe must judg And if it appear that amongst those of the National Church there be very many so ignorant that there is nothing more frequent than for the Ministers themselves to complain of it it is manifest from those of the National Church whatever may be concluded from Dissenters that the Means of Instruction provided by the Law are not sufficient unless that be sufficient Means of Instruction which Men of sufficient Capacity for other things may live under many Years and yet know very little by If you say it is for want of Consideration must not your Remedy of Force be used to bring them to it Or how will the Magistrate answer for it if he use Force to make Dissenters consider and let those of his own Church perish for want of it This being all one can well understand by your sufficient Means of Instruction as you there explain it I do not see but Men who have no Aversion to be instructed may yet fail of it notwithstanding such a Provision Perhaps by exercising the true Religion with one Accord under the Direction of the Ministers of it in publick Assemblies you mean something farther but that not being an ordinary Phrase will need your Explication to make it understood CHAP. II. Of the Magistrate's Commission to use Force in Matters of Religion THough in the foregoing Chapter our examining your Doctrine concerning the Magistrates who may or may not use Force in Matters of Religion we have in several places happened to take notice of the Commission whereby you authorize Magistrates to act yet we shall in this Chapter more particularly consider that Commission You tell us To use Force in Matters of Religion is a Duty of the Magistrate as old as the Law of Nature in which the Magistrate's Commission lies for the Scripture does not properly give it him but supposes it And more at large you give us an account of the Magistrate's Commission in these Words â—…is true indeed the Author and Finisher of our Faith has given the Magistrate no new Power or Commission nor was there any need that he should if himself had any Temporal Power to give For he found him already even by the Law of Nature the Minister of God to the People for Good and bearing the Sword not in vain i. e. invested with coactive Power and obliged to use it for all the good Purposes which it might serve and for which it should be found needful even for the restraining of false and corrupt Religion as Job long before perhaps before any part of the Scriptures were written acknowledged when he said that the worshipping the Sun or the Moon was an Iniquity to be punished by the Judg. But though our Saviour has given the Magistrates no new Power yet being King of Kings he expects and requires that they should submit themselves to his Scâ—…pter and use the Power which always belonged to them for his Service and for the advancing his spiritual Kingdom in the World And even that Charity which our great Master so earnestly recommends and so strictly requires of all his Disciples as it obliges all Men to seck and promote the Good of others as well as their own especially their spiritual and eternal Good by such Means as their several Places and Relations enable them to use so does it especially oblige the
this the Father is authorized by the Usefulness and Necessity of Force This I deny that the meer-supposed Usefulness and Necessity of Force authorizes the Father to use it for then whenever he judg'd it useful and necessary for his Son to prevail with him to apply himself to any Trade he might use Force upon him to that purpose which I think neither you nor any body else will say a Father has a right to do on his idle and perhaps married Son at 30 or 40 Years old There is then something else in the case and whatever it be that authorizes the Father to use Force upon his Child to make him a Prosicient in it authorizes him also to chuse that Trade Aâ—…t or Science he would have him a Proficient in for the Father can no longer use Force upon his Son to make him attain any Art or Trade than he can presâ—…ribe to him the Art or Trade he is to attain Put your Parallel now if you please The Father by the Usefulness and Nâ—…sity of Force is authorized to use it upon his Child to make him attain any Art or Science therefore the Magistrate is authorized to use Force to bring Men to the true Religion because it is useful and necessary Thus far you have used it and you think it does well But let us go on with the Parallel This Usefulness and Necessity of Force authorizes the Father to use it to make his Son apply himself to the use of the Means and Helps which are proper to make him what he is designed to be no longer than it authorizes the Father to design what his Son shall be and to chuse for him the Art or Trade he shall be of and so the Usefulness and Necessity you suppose in Force to bring Men to any Church cannot authorize the Magistrate to use Force any farther than he has a right to chuse for any one what Church or Religion he shall be of So that if you will stick to this Argument and allow the Parallel between a Magistrate and a Father and the right they have to use Force for the instructing of their Subjects in Religion and Children in Arts you must either allow the Magistrate to have power to chuse what Religion his Subjects shall be of which you have denied or else that he has no power to use Force to make them use Means to be of it A Father being entrusted with the Care and Provision for his Child is as well bound in Duty as fitted by natural Love and Tenderness to supply the Defects of his tender Age. When it is born the Child cannot move it self for the ease and help of natural Necessities the Parents Hands must supply that Inability and feed cleanse and swaddle it Age having given more Strength and the exercise of the Limbs the Parents are discharged from the trouble of putting Meat into the Mouth of the Child clothing or unclothing or carrying him in their Arms. The same Duty and Affection which required such kind of Helps to the Infant makes them extend their Thoughts to other Cares for him when he is grown a little bigger 't is not only a present Support but a future comfortable Subsistence begins to be thought on to this some Art or Science is necessary but the Child's Ignorance and want of Prospect makes him unable to chuse And hence the Father has a power to chuse for him that the flexible and docile part of Life may not be squandred away and the time of Instruction and Improvement be lost for want of Direction The Trade or Art being chosen by the Father 't is the Exercise and Industry of the Child must acquire it to himself but Industry usually wanting in Children the Spur which Reason and Foreâ—…ght gives to the Endeavours of grown Men the Father's Rod and Correction is fain to supply that Want to make him apply himself to the use of those Means and Helps which are proper to make him what he is designed to be But when the Child is once come to the State of Manhood and to be the Possessor and free Disposer of his Goods and Estate he is then discharged from this Discipline of his Parents and they have no longer any right to chuse any Art Science or Course of Life for him or by Force to make him apply himself to the use of those Means which are proper to make him be what he designs to be Thus the want of knowledg to chuse a sit Calling and want of knowledg of the necessity of Pains and Industry to attain Skill in it puts a Power into the Parents hands to use Force where it is necessary to procure the Application and Diligence of their Children in that which their Parents have thought fit to set them to but it gives this Power to the Parents only and to no other whilst they live and if they die whilst their Children need it to their Substitutes and there it is safely placed for since their want of Knowledg during their Non-age makes them want Direction and want of Reason often makes them need Punishment and Force to excite their Endeavours and keep them intent to the use of those Means that lead to the End they are directed to the Tenderness and Love of Parents will engage them to use it only for their Good and generally to quit it too when by the Title of Manhood they come to be above the Direction and Discipline of Children But how does this prove that the Magistrate has any right to force Men to apply themselves to the use of those Means and Helps which are proper to make them of any Religion more than it proves that the Magistrate has a right to chuse for them what Religion they shall be of To your Question therefore What is it that warrants and authorizes Schoolmasters Tutors and Masters to use Force upon their Scholars or Apprentices I answer A Commission from the Father or Mother or those who supply their Places for without that no indirect or at a distance Vsefulness or supposed Necessity could authorize them But then you will ask Is it not this Vsefulness and Necessity that gives this Power to the Father and Mother I grant it I would fain know then say you why the same Vsefulness joined witâ—… the like Necessity will as well do in the Case before us And I Sir will as readily tell you Because the Understanding of the Parents is to supply the want of it in the Minority of their Children and therefore they have a right not only to use Force to make their Children apply themselves to the means of acquiring any Art or Trade but to chuse also the Trade or Calling they shall be of But when being come out of the State of Minority they are supposed of Years of Discretion to chuse what they will design themselves to be they are also at liberty to judg what Application and Industry they will use for the attaining of it and
then how negligent soever they are in the use of the Means how averse soever to Instruction or Application they are past the Correction of a Schoolmaster and their Parents can no longer chuse or design for them what they shall be nor use Force to prevail with them to apply themselves to the use of those Means and Helps which are proper to make them what they are designed to be He that imagines a Father or Tutor may send his Son to School at thirty or forty Years old and order him to be whipp'd there or that any indirect and at a distance Usefulness will authorize him to be so used will be thought fitter to be sent thither himself and there to receive due Correction When you have consider'd 't is otherwise in the case of the Magistrate using Force your way in Matters of Religion that there his Understanding is not to supply the defect of Understanding in his Subjects and that only for a time that he cannot chuse for any of his Subjects what Religion he shall be of as you your self confess and that this Power of the Magistrate if it be as is claimed by you over Men of all Ages Parts and Endowments you will perhaps see some reason why it should not do in the Case before us as well as in that of Schoolmasters and Tutors though you believe I cannot assign any But Sir will your indirect and at a distance Vsefulness together with your supposed Necessity authorize the Master of the Shoe-makers Company to take any one who comes in his Hands and punish him for not being of the Shoe-makers Company and not coming to their Guild when he who has a right to chuse of what Trade and Company he will be thinks it not his Interest to be a Shoe-maker Nor can he or any body else imagine that this Force this Punishment is used to make him a good Shoe-maker when it is seen and avowed that the Punishments cease and they are free from it who enter themselves of the Company whether they are really Shoe-makers or in earnest apply themselves to be so or no. How much it differs from this that the Magistrate should punish Men for not being of his Church who chuse not to be of it and when they are once entred into the Communion of it are punished no more though they are as ignorant unskilful and unpractised in the Religion of it as before how much I say this differs from the Case I proposed I leave you to consider For after all your Pretences of using Force for the Salvation of Souls and consequently to make Men really Christians you are fain to allow and you give Reasons for it that Force is used only to those who are out of your Church but whoever are once in it are free from Force whether they be really Christians and apply themselves to those things which are for the Salvation of their Souls or no. As to what you say That whether they chuse it or no they ought to chuse it for your Magistrate's Religion is the true Religion that is the Question between you and them but be that as it will if Force be to be used in the case I have proved that be the Magistrate's Religion true or false he whilst he believes it to be true is under an obligation to use Force as if it were true But since you think your Instance of Children so weighty and pressing give me leave to return you your Question I ask you then Are not Parents as much authorized to teach their Children their Religion as they are to teach them their Trade when they have designed them to it May they not as lawfully correct them to make them learn their Catechise or the Principles of their Religion as they may to make them learn Clenard's Grammar Or may they not use Force to make them go to Mass or whatever they believe to be the Worship of the true Religion as to go to School or to learn any Art or Trade If they may as I think you will not deny unless you will say that none but Orthodox Parents may teach their Children any Religion If they may I say then pray tell me a Reason if your Argumenâ—… from the Discipline of Children be good why the Magistrate may not use Force to bring Men to his Religion as well as Parents may use Force to instruct Children and bring them up in theirs When you have considered this you will perhaps find some difference between the State of Children and grown Men betwixt those under Tutelage and those who are free and at their own disposal and be inclined to think that those Reasons which subject Children in their Non-age to the use of Force may not nor do concern Men at Years of Discretion You tell us farther That Commonwealths are instituted for the attaining of all the Benefits which Political Government can yield and therefore if the spiritual and eternal Interests of Men may any way be procured or advanced by Political Government the procuring and advancing those Interests must in all reason be received amongst the Ends of Civil Society and so consequently fall within the compass of the Magistrate's Jurisdiction Concerning the extent of the Magistrate's Jurisdiction and the Ends of Civil Society whether the Author or you have begg'd the Question which is the chief business of your 56th and two or three following Pages I shall leave it to the Readers to judg and bring the matter if you please to a shorter Iâ—…ue The Question is Whether the Magistrate has any Power to interpose Force in Matters of Religion or for the Salvation of Souls The Argument against it is That Civil Societies are not constituted for that End and the Magistrate cannot use Force for Ends for which the Common-wealth was not constituted The End of a Commonwealth constituted can be supposed no other than what Men in the Constitution of and entring into it propos'd and that could be nothing but Protection from such Injuries from other Men which they desiring to avoid nothing but Force could prevent or remedy all things but this being as well attainable by Men living in Neighbourhood without the Bonds of a Commonwealth they could propose to themselves no other thing but this in quitting their Natural Liberty and putting themselves under the Umpirage of a Civil Soveraign who therefore had the Force of all the Members of the Commonwealth put into his Hands to make his Decrees to this end be obeyed Now since no Man or Society of Men can by their Opinions in Religion or Ways of Worship do any Man who differed from them any Injury which he could not avoid or redress if he desired it without the help of Force the punishing any Opinion in Religion or Ways of Worship by the Force given the Magistrate could not be intended by those who constituted or entred into the Commonwealth and so could be no End of it but quite the contrary For Force from
and at a Distance do some Service towards the advancing or procuring the spiritual and eternal Interest of some of those who suffer in it In the two latter Paragraphs you except against my want of Exactness in setting down your Opinion I am arguing against Had it been any way to take off the Force of what you say or that the Reader could have been misled by my Words in any part of the Question I was arguing against you had hâ—…d Reason to complain if not you had done better to haâ—…e entertained the Reader with a clearer Answer to my Argument than spent your Ink and his Time needlesly to shew such Niceness My Argument is as good against your Tenet in your own Words as in mine which you except against your Words are Doubtless Commonwealths are instituted for the attaining all the Benefits which Political Government can yield and therefore if the spiritual and eternal Interest of Men may any way be procured 〈◊〉 advanced by Political Government the procuring and advancing those Interests must in all Reason be reckon'd amongst the Ends of Civil Societies To which I answer'd That if this be so Then this Position must be true viz. That all Societies whatsoever are instituted for the attaining all the Benefits that they may any way yield there being nothing peculiar to Civil Society in the case why that Society should be instituted for the attaining all the Benefits it can any way yield and other Societies not By which Argument it will follow that all Societies are instituted for one and the same End i. e. for the attaining all the Benefits that they can any way yield By which Account there will be no Difference between Church and State a Commonwealth and an Army or between a â—…amily and the East-India Company all which have hitherto been thought distinct sorts of Societies instituted â—…or different Ends. If your Hypothesis hold good oâ—…e of the Ends of the Family must be to preach the Gospel and administer the Sacraments and one Business of an Army to teach Languages and propagate Religion because these are Benefits some way or other attainable by those Societies unless you take want of Commission and Authority to be a sufficient impâ—…diment And that will be so in other Cases To which you reply Nor will it follow from hence that all Societies are instituted for one and the same End as you imagine it will unless you suppose all Sociâ—…s inabâ—…d by the Power they are indued with to attain the same â—…nd which I believe no Man hitherto did ever affirm And therefore notwithstanding this Position theâ—…e may be still as great a Difference as you please between Church anâ—… State a Commonwealth and an Army or between a Family and the East-India-Company Which â—…veral Societies as they are instituted for different Ends so are thâ—…y likewise furnished with dâ—…fferent Powers proportionate to their respective Ends. In which the Râ—…ason you give to destroy my Inference I am to thank you for if you understood the Force of it it being the very same I bring to shew that my Inference from your way of arguing is good I say that from your way of reasonings about the Ends of Government ` It would follow that all Societies were instituted for one and the same End unless you take want of Commission ` and Authority to be a sufficient Impâ—…diment And you tell me here it will not follow unless I suppose all Societies enabled by the Powers they are indued with to attain the same End which in other Words is unless I suppose all who have in their Hands the Force of any Society to have all of them the same Commission The natural Force of all the Members of any Society or of those who by the Society can be procured to assist it is in one Sense called the Power of that Society This Power or Force is generally put into some one or few Persons Hands with Direction and Authority how to use it and this in another Sense is called also the Power of the Society And this is the Power you here speak of and in these following Words viz. Several Societies as they are instituted for different Ends so likewise are they furnished with different Powers proportionate to their respective Ends. The Power therefore of any Society in this Sense is nothing but the Authority and Direction given to those that have the Management of the Force or natural Power of the Society how and to what Ends to use it by which Commission the Ends of Societies are known and distinguished so that all Societies wherein those who are intrusted with the Management of the Force or natural Power of the Society have Commission and Authority to use the Force or natural Power of the Society to attain the same Benefits are instituted for the same End And therefore if in all Societies those who have the Management of the Force or natural Power of the Society are commission'd or authorized to use that Force to attain all the Benefits attainable by it all Societies are instituted to the same End And so what I said will still be true viz. ` That a Family and an Army a Commonwealth and a Church have all the same End And if your Hypothesis hold good one of the Ends of a Family must be to preach the Gospel and administer the Sacraments and one Business of an Army to teach Languages and propagate Religion because these are Benefits some way or other attainable by those Societies unless you take want of Commission and Authority to be a sufficient Impediment And ` that will be so too in other Cases To which you have said nothing but what does confirm it which you will a little better see when you have considered that any Benefit attainable by Force or natural Power of a Society does not proâ—…e the Society to be instituted for that End till you also shew that those to whom the Management of the Force of the Society is intrusted are commâ—…ion to use it to that End And therefore to your next Paragraph I shall think it Answer enough to print here Side by Side with it that Paragraph of mine to which you intended it as an Answer L. 2. p. 51. T is a Benefit to have true Knowledg and Philosophy imbraced and assented to in any Ciâ—…il Society or Government But will you say therefore that it is a Benefit to the Society or one of the Ends of Government that all who are not 〈◊〉 should be punished to make Men find out the Truth and proâ—…s it This indeed might be thought a sit way to make some Men imbrace the Peripatetick Philosophy but not a proper way to find the Truth For perhaps the Peripatetick Philosophy may not be true perhâ—…ps a great many have not time nor Parts to study it perhaps a great many who have studied it cannot be conâ—…inced of the Truth of it And therefore it cannot be a Benefit
to the Commonwealth nor one of the Ends of it that these Members of the Society should be disturb'd and diseas'd to no purpose when they are guilty of no Fault For just the same Reason it cannot be a Benefit to Civil Society that Men should be punished in Denmark for not being Lutherans in Geneva for not being Calvinists and in Vienna for not being Papists as a means to make them find out the true Religion For so upon your Grounds Men must be treated in those Places as well as in England for not being of the Church of England And then I beseech you consider the great Benefit will accrue to Men in Society by this Method and I suppose it will be a hard thing for you to prove That ever Civil Governments were instituted to punish Men for not being of this or that Sect in Religion however by Accident indirectly and at a distance it may be an occasion to one perhaps of a thousand or an hundred to â—…udy that Controversy which is all you expect from it If it be a 〈◊〉 pray tell me what Benefit it is A Civil Benefit it cannot be For Mens Civil Interests are disturb'd injur'd and impair'd by it And what Spiritual Benefit that can be to any Multitude of Men to be punished for Dissenting from a false or erroneous Profession I would have you find out unless it be a Spiritual Benefit to be in danger to be driven into a wrong way For if in all differing Sects one is in the wrong 't is a hundred to one but that from which any one Dissents and is punished for Dissenting from is the wrong L. 3. p. 58. To your next Paragraph after what has already been said I think it may â—…ffice to say as follows Though perhaps the Peripâ—…tetick â—…hilosophy may not be true and perhaps it is no great matter if it be not yet the true Religion is undoubâ—…dly true And though perhaps a great many have not time nor Parts to study that Philosophy and perhaps it may be no great matter neither if they have not yet all that have the true Religion duly tender'd them have time and all but Idiots and Mad-men have Parts likewise to study it as much as it is necessary for them to study it And though perhaps a great many who have studied that Philosophy cannot be convinced of the Truth of it which perhaps is no great Wonder yet no Man â—…ver studied the true Religion with such Care and Diligence as he might and ought to use and with an honest Mind but he was convinced of the Truth of it And that those who cannot otherwise be brought to do this should be a little disturb'd and diseas'd to bring them to it I take to be the Interest not only of those particular Persons who by this means may be brought into the way of Salvation but of the Commonwealth likewise upon these two Accounts 1. Because the true Religion which this Method propagates makes good Men and good Men are always the best Subjects or Members of a Common-wealth not only as they do more sincerely and zealously promote the Publick Good than other Men but likewise in regard of the Favour of God which they often procure to the Societies of which they are Members And 2. Because this Care in any commâ—…ealth of God's Honour and Mens Salvation entitles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 his special Protection and Blessing So that where this Method is used it proves both a Spiritual and a Civil Benefit to the Commonwealth You tell us the true Religion is undoubtedly true If you had told us too who is undoubtedly Judg of it you had put all past doubt but till you will be pleased to determine that it will be undoubtedly true that the King of Denmark is as undoubtedly Judg of it at Copenhagen and the Emperor at Vienna as the King of England in this Island I do not say they judg as right but they are by as much Right Judges and therefore have as much Right to punish those who dissent from Lutheranism and Popery in those Countries as any other Civil Magistrate has to punish any Dissenters from the National Religion any where else And who can deny but these Briars and Thorns laid in their way by the Penal Laws of those Countries may do some Service indirectly and at a Distance to bring Men there severely and impartially to examine Matters of Religion and so to imbrace the Truth that must save them which the bare outward Profession of any Religion in the World will not do This true Religion which is undoubtedly true you tell us too never any body studied with such Care and Diligence as he might and ought to use and with an honest Mind but he was convinced of the Truth of it If you will resolve it in your short circular way and tell me such Diligence as one ought to use is such Diligence as brings one to be convinced it is a Question too easy to be asked If I should desire to know plainly what is to be understood by it it would be a Question too hard for you to answer and therefore I shall not trouble you with demanding what this Diligence which a Man may and ought to use is nor what you mean by an honest Mind I only ask you whether Force your way applied be able to produce them that so the Commonwealth may have the Benefits you propose from Mens being convinced of and consequently imbracing the true Religion which you say no Body can miss who is brought to that Diligence and that honest Mind The Benefits to the Commonwealth are 1. That the true Religion that this Method propagates makes good Men and good Men are always the best Subjects and often procure the Favour of God to the Society they are Members of Being forward enough to grant that nothing contributes so much to the Benefit of a Society as that it be made up of good Men I began presently to give into your Method which promises so sure a way to make Men so study the true Religion that they cannot miss the being convinced of the Truth of it and so hardly avoid being really of the true Religion and consequently good Men. But that I might not mistake in a thing of that consequence I began to look about in those Countries where Force had been made use of to propagate what you allowed to be the true Religion and found Complaints of as great a Scarcity of good Men there as in other places A Friend whom I discoursed on this Point said It might possibly be that the World had not yet had the benefit of your Method because Law-makers had not yet been able to find that just Temper of Penalties on which your Propagation of the true Religion was built and that therefore it was great pity you had not yet discovered this great Secret but 't was to be hoped you would Another who stood by said he did not see how your Method could
there was to expect that they should get any thing by the Exchange which would countervail the Loss they should sustain by it I thought Protection and Impunity of Men not offending in Civil Things might have been accounted the Civil Rights of the Commonwealth which the Author meant but you to make it seem more add the word Privileges Let it be so Live amongst you then Jews Mahometans and Pagans may but endenizon'd they must not be But why Are there not those who are Members of your Commonwealth who do not imbrace the Truth that must save them any more than they What think you of Soâ—…inians Papists Anabaptists Quakers Presbyterians If they do not reject the Truth necessary to Salvation why do you punish them Or if some that are in the way to Perdition may be Members of the Commonwealth why must these be excluded upon the account of Religion For I think there is no great odds as to saving of Souls which is the only End for which they are punished amongst those Religions each whereof will make those who are of it miss Salvation Only if there be any fear of seducing those who are of the National Church the Danger is most from that Religion which comes nearest to it and most resembles it However this you think but a just and necessary Caution in a Christian Commonwealth in respect of the Members of it I suppose for you love to speak doubtfully these Members of a Christian Common-wealth you take such care of are Members also of the National Church whose Religion is the true and therefore you call them in the next Paragraph Subjects of Christ's Kingdom to whom he has a special regard For Dissenters who are punished to be made good Christians to whom Force is used to bring them to the true Religion and to the Communion of the Church of God 't is plain are not in your Opinion good Christians or of the true Religion unles you punish them to make them what they are already The Dissenters therefore who are already perverted and reject the Truth that must save them you are not I suppose so careful of lest they should be seduced Those who have already the Plague need not be guarded from Infection nor can you fear that Men so desperately perverse that Penalties and Punishments joined to the Light and Strength of the Truth have not been able to bring from the Opinions they have espoused into the Communion of the Church should be seduced to Judaism 〈◊〉 or Paganism neither of which has the advantage of Truth â—…r Interest to prevail by 'T is therefore those of the National Church as I conclude also from the close of this Paragraph where you speak of God's own peculiar People whâ—…re you think would be much the more in danger to be seduced by them if they were 〈◊〉 since they would lose no worldly Advantage by such a change of their Religion i. e. by quitting the National Church to turn Jews Mahometans or Pagans This shews whatever you say of the sufficient means of Instruction provided by the Law how well you think the Members of the National Church are instructed in the true Religion It shews also whatever you say of its being presumable that they imbrace it upon Conviction how much you are satisfied that the Members of the National Church are convinc'd of the Truth of the Religion they profess or rather herd with since you think them in great Danger to change it for Judaism Mahometism or Paganism it self upon equal terms and because they shall lose no worldly Advantage by such a Change But if the forseiting the Civil Rights of the Commonwealth be the proper Remedy to keep Men in the Communion of the Church why is it used to keep Men from Judaism or Paganism and not from Phanaticism Upon this Account why might not Jews Pagans and Mahometans be admitted to the Rights of the Commonwealth as far as Papists Independents and Quakers But you distribute to every one according to your good Pleasure and doubtless are fully justified by these following Words And whether this be not a reasonable and necessary Caution any Man may judg who does but consider within how few Ages after the Flood Superstition and Idolatry prevailed over the World and how apt even God's own peculiar People were to receive that mortal Infection notwithstanding all that he did to keep them from it What the State of Religion was in the first Ages after the Flood is so imperfectly known now that as I have shewed you in another Place you can make little Advantage to your Cause from thence And since it was the same Corruption then which as you own withdraws Men now from the true Religion and hinders it from prevailing by its own â—…ight without the Assistance of Force and it is the same Corruption that keeps Dissenters as well as Jews Mahometuns and Pagans from imbracing of the Truth why differâ—…nt Degrees of Punishments should be used to them till there be sound in them disserent Degrees of 〈◊〉 would need some better Reason Why this common Pravity of 〈◊〉 Nature should make 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or Paganism more catching than any sort of Nonconformity which â—…inders 〈◊〉 from imbracing the true Religion â—…o that Jews 〈◊〉 and Pagans must for â—…ear of infeâ—…ting others be shut out from â—…he Commonwealth when others are not I would 〈◊〉 know 〈◊〉 Whatever it was that so disposed the Jews to Idolatry before the Captivity sure it is they firmly resisted it and refused to change not only where they might have done it on equal terms but have had great Advantage to boot and therefore 't is possible that there is something in this matter which neither you nor I do fully comprehend and may with a becoming Humility sit down and confess that in this as well as other Parts of his Providence God's Ways are past finding out But this we may be certain from this Instance of the Jews that it is not reasonable to conclude that because they were once inclin'd to Idolatry that therefore they or any other People are in Danger to turn Pagans whenever they shall lose no worldly Advantage by such a Change But if we may oppose nearer and known Instances to more remote and uncertain look into the World and tell me since Jesus Christ brought Life and Immortality to light through the Gospel where the Christian Religion meeting Judaism Mahometism or Paganism upon equal terms lost so plainly by it that you have Reason to suspect the Members of a Christian Commonwealth would be in Danger to be seduced to either of them if they should lose no worldly Advantage by such a Change of their Religion rather than likely to increase among them Till you can find then some better Reason for excluding Jews c. from the Rights of the Commonwealth you must give us leave to look on this as a bare Pretence Besides I think you are under a Mistake which shews your Pretence
are in earnest than as it may more or less conduce to the Conversion of the Offenders But if your Jealousy for the Honour of God ingages you so far against Mens committing Idolatry in certain Places that you think those ought to be excluded from the Rights of the Commonwealth and not to be suffered to be Denizons who according to that Place in the Romans brought by you are without Excuse because when they knew God they glorified him not as God but became vain in their Imaginations and changed the Glory of the incorruptible God into an Image made like to corruptible Man I shall only change some of the Words in the Text you cite out of Isaiah I have baked part thereof on the Coals and eaten it and shall I make the residue thereof a God shall I fall down to that which comes of a Plant And so leave them with you to consider whether your Jealousy in earnest carries you so far as you talk of and whether when you have looked about you you are still of the Mind that those who do such things should be disfranchised and sent away and the Exercise of no such Religion be any where permitted amongst us for those things are no less an Ahomination to God under a Christian than Pagan Name One Word more I have to say to your Jealousy for the Honour of God that if it be any thing more than in Talk it will set it self no less earnestly against other Abominations and the Practisers of them than against that of Idolatry As to that in Job XXXI 26 27 28. where he says Idolatry is to be punished by the Judg this Place alone were there no other is sufficient to confirm their Opinion who conclude that Book to be writ by a Jew And how little the punishing of Idolatry in that Commonwealth concerns our present Case I refer you for Information to the Author's Letter But how does your Jealousy for the Honour of God carry you to an Exclusion of the Pagan Religion from amongst you but yet admit of the Jewish and Mahometan Or is not the Honour of God concern'd in their denying our Saviour You go on But as to the converting Jews Mahometans and Pagans to Christianity I fear there will be no great Progress made in it till Christians come to a better Agreement and Vnion among themselves I am sure our Saviour prayed that all thâ—…t should believe in him might be one in the Father and him i. e. I suppose in that holy Religion which he taught them from the Father that the World might believe that the Father had sent him And therefore when he comes to make Inquisition why no more â—…ews Mâ—…hometans and Pagans have been converted to his Religion I very much fear that a great part of the Blame will be found to lâ—…e upon the Authors and Promoters of Sects and Divisions among the Professors of it which therefore I think all that are guilty and all that would not be guilty ought well to consider I easily grant that our Saviour pray'd that all might be one in that holy Religion which he taught them and in that very Prayer teaches what that Religion is This is Life eternal that they might know thee the only true God and Jesus Christ whom thou hast 〈◊〉 But must it be expected that therefore they should all be of one Mind in things not necessary to Salvation For whatever Unity it was our Saviour pray'd for here 't is certain the Apostles themselves did not all of them agree in every thing but even the chief of them have had Differences amongst them in Matters of Religion as appears Gal. II. 11. An Agreement in Truths necessary to Salvation and the maintaining of Charity and brotherly Kindness with the Diversity of Opinions in other things is that which will very well consist with Christian Unity and is all possibly to be had in this World in such an incurable Weakness and Difference of Mens Understandings This probably would contribute more to the Conversion of Jews Mahometans and Pagans if there were proposed to them and others for their Admittance into the Church only the plain and simple Truths of the Gospel necessary to Salvation than all the fruitless Pudder and Talk about uniting Christians in Matters of less Moment according to the Draught and Prescription of a certain set of Men any where What Blame will lie on the Authors and Promoters of Sects and Divisions and let me add Animosities amongst Christians when Christ comes to make Inquisition why no more Jews Mahometans and Pagans were converted they who are concerned ought certainly well to consider And to abate in great measure this Mischief for the future they who talk so much of Sects and Divisions would do well to consider too whether those are not most Authors and Promoters of Sects and Divisions who impose Creeds Ceremonies and Articles of Mens making and make things not necessary to Salvation the necessary terms of Communion Excluding and driving from them such as out of Conscience and Perswasion cannot assent and submit to them and treating them as if they were utter Aliens from the Church of God and such as were deservedly shut out as unfit to be Members of it who narrow Christianity within Bounds of their own making and which the Gospel knows nothing of and often for things by themselves confessed indifferent thrust Men out of their Communion and then punish them for not being of it Who sees not but the Bond of Unity might be preserved in the different Perswasions of Men concerning things not necessary to Salvation if they were not made necessary to Church-Communion What two thinking Men of the Church of England are there who differ not one from the other in several material Points of Religion who nevertheless are Members of the same Church and in Unity one with another Make but one of those Points the Shibboleth of a Party and erect it into an Article of the National Church and they are presently divided and he of the two whose Judgment happens not to agree with National Orthodoxy is immediately cut off from Communion Who I beseech you is it in this Case that makes the Sect Is it not those who contract the Church of Christ within Limits of their own Contrivance who by Articles and Ceremonies of their own forming separate from their Communion all that have not Perswasions which just jump with their Model 'T is frivolous here to pretend Authority No Man has or can have Authority to shut any one out of the Church of Christ for that for which Christ himself will not shut him out of Heaven Whosoever does so is truly the Author and Promoter of Sâ—…hism and Division sets up a Sect and tears in Pieces the Church of Christ of which every one who believes and practises what is necessary to Salvation is a Part and Member and cannot without the Guilt of Schism be separated from or kept out of its
imagine I write so in this Argument as I have before my Eyes the Account I shall one Day render for my Intention and Regard to Truth in the Management of it I look on my self as liable to Error as others but this I am sure of I would neither impose on you my self nor any body and should be very glad to have the Truth in this Point clearly establish'd and therefore it is I desire you again to examine whether all the Ends you name to be intended by your Use of Force do in effect when Force is to be your way put in Practice reach any farther than bare outward Conformity Pray consider whether it be not that whiâ—…h makes you so shy of the term Dissenters which you tell me is mine not your Word Since none are by your Scheme to be punished but those who do not conform to the National Religion Diffenters I think is the proper Name to call them by and I can see no reason you have to boggle at it unless your Opinion has something in it you are unwilling should be spoke out and call'd by its right Name But whether you like it or no Persecution and Persecution of Dissenters are Names that belong to it as it stands now And now I think I may leave you your Question wherein you ask But cannot Dissenters be punished for not being of the National Religion as the Fault and yet only to make them consider as the End for which they are punished To be answered by your self or to be used again where you think there is any need of so nice a Distinction as between the Fault for which Men are punished by Laws and the End for which they are punished For to me I confess it is hard to find any other immediate End of Punishment in the Intention of humane Laws but the Amendment of the Fault punished though it may be subordinate to other and remoter Ends. If the Law be only to punish Non-conformity one may truly say to cure that Fault or to produce Conformity is the End of that Law and there iâ—… nothing else immediately aimed at by that Law but Conformity and whatever else it tends to as an End must be only as a Consequence of Conformity whâ—…ther it be Edisication Increase of Charity or saving of Souls or whatever else may be thought a Consequence of Conformity So that in a Law which with Penalties requires Conformity and nothing else oâ—…e cannot say properly I think that Consideration is the End of that Law unless Consideration be a Consâ—…quence of Conformity to which Conformity is subordinate and does naturally conduce or else is necessary to it To my arguing that it is uâ—…just as well as impracticable you reply Where the National Church is the true Church of God â—…o which all Men ought to join themselves and sufficient Evidence is offered to convince Men that it 〈◊〉 so There it is a Fault to be out of the National Church because it is a Fault not to be convinced that the National Church is that true Church of God And therefore since there Mens not being so convinced can only be imputed to their not considering as they ought the Evidence which is â—…ffered to convince them it cannot be unjust to punish them to make them so to consider it Pray tell me which is a Man's Duty to be of the National Church 〈◊〉 or to be â—…onvinced first that its Religion is â—…ue and then to be of it If it be his Duty to be convinced 〈◊〉 why then do you punish him for not being of it when it is his Duty to be â—…onvinced of the Truth of its Religion before it is his Duty to be of it If you say it is his Duty to be of it first why then is not â—…orce used to him afterwards though he be still ignorant and unconvinced But you answer It is his Fault not to be convinced What every one's Fault every where No you â—…imit it to Places where sufficient Evidence is offered to convince Men that the National Church is the true Church of God To which pray let me add the National Church is so the true Church of God that no body out of its Communion can imbrace the Truth that must save him or be in the way to Salvation For if a Man may be in the way to Salvation out of the National Church he is enough in the true Church and needs no Force to bring him into any other For when a Man is in the way to Salvation there is no Necessity of Force to bring him into any Church of any Denomination in order to his Salvation So that not to be of the National Church though true will not be a Fault which the Magistrate has a right to punish until sufficient Evidence is offered to prove that a Man cannot be saved out of it Now since you tell us that by sufficient Evidence you mean such as will certainly win Assent when you have offer'd such Evidence to convince Men that the National Church any where is so the true Church that Men cannot be saved out of its Communion I think I may allow them to be so faulty as to deserve what Punishment you shall think sit If you hope to mend the matter by the following Words where you say that where such Evidence is offered there Mens not being convinced can only be imputed to Mens not considering as they ought they will not help you For to consider as they ought being by your own Interpretation to consider so as not to reject then your Answer amounts to just thus much That it is a Fault not to be convinced that the National Church is the true Church of God where sufficient Evidence is offered to convince Men that it is so Sufficient Evidence is such as will certainly gain Assent with thâ—…se who consider as they ought i. e. who consider so as not to reject or to be moved heartily to imbrace which I think is to be convinced Who can have the Heart now to deny any of this Can there be any thing surer than that Mens not being convinc'd is to be imputed to them if they are not convinc'd where such Evidence is offered to them as does convince them And to punish all such you have my free Consent Whether all you say have any thing more in it than this I appeal to my Readers and should willingly do it to you did not I fear that the jumbling of those good and plausible Words in your Head of sufficient Evidence consider as one ought c. might a little jargogle your Thoughts and lead you hood-wink'd the round of your own beaten Circle This is a Danger those are much exposed to who accustom themselves to relative and doubtful terms and so put together that though asunder they signify something yet when their meaning comes to be cast up as they are placed it amounts to just nothing You go on What
And your Law will reach no body till you have convinced him he is in the wrong Way and then there will be no need of Punishment to make him consider unless you will affirm again what you have denied and have Men punished for imbracing the Religion they believe to be true when it differs from yours or the Publick Besides being in the wrong Way those who you would have punished must be such as are deaf to all Perswasions But any such I suppose you will hardly sind who hearken to no body not to those of their own Way If you mean by deaf to all Perswasions all Perswasions of a contrary Party or of a different Church such I suppose you may abundantly find in your own Church as well as else-where and I presume to them you are so charitable that you would not have them punished for not lending an Ear to Seducers For Constancy in the Truth and Perseverance in the Faith is I hope rather to be incouraged than by any Penalties check'd in the Orthodox And your Church doubtless as well as all others is Orthodox to it self in all its Tenets If you mean by all Perswasion all your Perswasion or all Perswasion of those of your Communion you do but beg the Question and suppose you have a right to punish those who differ from and will not comply with you Your next Words are When Men fly from the means of a right Information and will not so much as consider how reasonable it is throughly and impartially to examine a Religion which they embraced upon such Inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the matter and therefore with little or no Examination of the proper Grounds of it What humane Method can be used to bring them to act like Men in an Affair of such consequence and to make a wiser and more rational Choice but that of laying such Penalties upon them as may ballance the weight of those Prejudices which inclined them to prefer a false Way before the true and recover them to so much Sobriety and Refâ—…ction as seriously to put the question to themselves Whether it be really worth the while to undergo such Inconveniences for adhering to a Religion which for any thing they know may be false or for rejecting another if that be the case which for any thing they know may be true till they have brought it to the Bar of Reason and given it a fair trial there Here you again bring in such as prefer a false Way before a true to which having answered already I shall here say no more but That since our Church will not allow those to be in a false Way who are out of the Church of Rome because the Church of Rome which pretends Infallibility declares hers to be the only true Way certainly no one of our Church nor any other which claims not Infallibility can require any one to take the Testimony of any Church as a sufficient Proof of the Truth of her own Doctrine So that true and false as it commonly happens when we suppose them for our selves or our Party in effect signify just nothing or nothing to the purpose unless we can think that true or false in England which will not be so at Rome or Geneva and Vice versâ As for the rest of the description of those on whom you are here laying Penalties I beseech you consider whether it will not belong to any of your Church let it be what it will Consider I say if there be none in your Church who have imbraced her Religion upon such Inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the matter and therefore with little or no Examination of the proper Grounds of it who have not been inclined by Prejudices who do not adhere to a Religion which for any thing they know may be false and who have rejected another which for any thing they know may be true If you have any such in your Communion and 't will be an admirable though I fear but a little Flock that has none such in it consider well what you have done You have prepared Rods for them for which I imagine they will con you no thanks For to make any tolerable Sense of what you here propose it must be understood that you would have Men of all Religions punished to make them consider whether it be really worth the while to undergo such Inconveniences for adhering to a Religion which for any thing they know may be false If you hope to avoid that by what you have said of true and false and pretend that the supposed Preference of the true Way in your Church ought to preserve its Members from your Punishment you manifestly trifle For every Church's Testimony that it has chosen the true Way must be taken for it self and then none will be liable and your new Invention of Punishment is come to nothing Or else the differing Churches Testimonies must be taken one for another and then they will be all out of the true Way and your Church need Penalties as well as the rest So that upon your Principles they must all or none be punished Chuse which you please one of them I think you cannot escape What you say in the next Words Where Instruction is stifly refused and all Admonitions and Perswasions prove vain and ineffectual differs nothing but in the way of expressing from Deaf to all Perswasions And so that is answered already In another place you give us another description of those you think ought to be punished in these Words Those who refuse to embrace the Doctrine and submit to the Spiritual Government of the proper Ministers of Religion who by special Designation are appointed to Exhort Admonish Reprove c. Here then those to be punished are such who refuse to imbrace the Doctrine and submit to the Government of the proper Ministers of Religion Whereby we are as much still at uncertainty as we were before who those are who by your Scheme and Laws sutable to it are to be punished since every Church has as it thinks its proper Ministers of Religion And if you mean those that refuse to imbrace the Doctrine and submit to the Government of the Ministers of another Church then all Men will be guilty and must be punished even those of your own Church as well as others If you mean those who refuse c. the Ministers of their own Church very few will incur your Penalties But if by these proper Ministers of Religion the Ministers of some particular Church are intended why do you not name it Why are you so reserved in a Matter wherein if you speak not out all the rest that you say will be to no purpose Are Men to be punished for refusing to imbrace the Doctrine and submit to the Government of the proper Ministers of the Church of Geneva For this time since you have declared nothing to the contrary let me suppose you of
that Church and then I am sure that is it that you would name for of whatever Church you are if you think the Ministers of any one Church ought to be hear kned to and obeyed it must be those of your own There are Persons to be punished you say This you contend for all through your Book and lay so much stress on it that you make the Preservation and Propagation of Religion and the Salvation of Souls to depend on it and yet you describe them by so general and equivocal Marks that unless it be upon Suppositions which no body will grant you I dare say neither you nor any body else will be able to find one guilty Pray find me if you can a Man whom you can judicially prove for he that is to be punished by Law must be fairly tried is in a wrong way in respect of his Faith I mean who is deaf to all Perswasions who flies from all means of a right Information who refuses to imbrace the Doctrine and submit to the Government of the Spiritual Pastors And when you have done that I think I may allow you what Power you please to punish him without any prejudice to the Toleration the Author of the Letter proposes But why I pray all this boggling all this loose talking as if you knew not what you meant or durst not speak it out Would you be for punishing some body you know not whom I do not think so ill of you Let me then speak out for you The Evidence of the Argument has convinced you that Men ought not to be persecuted for their Religion That the Severities in use amongst Christians cannot be defended That the Magistrate has not Authority to compel any one to his Religion This you are forced to yield But you would fain retain some Power in the Magistrate's Hands to punish Dissenters upon a new Pretence viz. not for having imbraced the Doctrine and Worship they believe to be True and Right but for not having well considered their own and the Magistrate's Religion To shew you that I do not speak wholly without book give me leave to mind you of one Passage of yours the Words are 〈◊〉 to put them upon a serious and impartial examination of the Controversy between the Magistrate and them Though these Words be not intended to tell us who you would have punished yet it may be plainly inferr'd from them And they more clearly point out whom you aim at than all the foregoing Places where you seem to and should describe them For they are such as between whom and the Magistrate there is a Controversy that is in short who differ from the Magistrate in Religion And now indeed you have given us a Note by which these you would have punished may be known We have with much ado found at last whom it is we may presume you would have punished Which in other Cases is usually not very difficult because there the Faults to be amended easily design the Persons to be corrected But yours is a new Method and unlike all that ever went before it In the next place let us see for what you would have them punished You tell us and it will easily be granted you that not to examine and weigh impartially and without Prejudice or Passion all which for shortness sake we will express by this one word Consider the Religion one embraces or refuses is a Fault very common and very prejudicial to true Religion and the Salvation of Mens Souls But Penalties and Punishments are very necessary say you to remedy this Evil. Let us now see how you apply this Remedy Therefore say you let all Dissenters be punished Why Have no Dissenters considered of Religion Or have all Conformists considered That you your self will not say Your Project therefore is just as reasonable as if a Lethargy growing Epidemical in England you should propose to have a Law made to blister and scarify and shave the Heads of all who wear Gowns tho it be certain that neither all who wear Gowns are Lethargick nor all who are Lethargick wear Gowns Dii te Damaâ—…ppe Deaeque Vâ—…um ob consilium donent tonsore For there could not be certainly a more Learned Advice than that one Man should be pull'd by the Ears because another is asleep This when you have consider'd of it again for I find according to your Principle all Men have now and then need to be jogg'd you will I guess be convinced is not like a fair Physician to apply a Remedy to a Disease but like an engaged Enemy to ' vent one's Spleen upon a Party Common Sense as well as Common Justice requires that the Remedies of Laws and Penalties should be directed against the Evil that is to be removed where-ever it be found And if the Punishment you think so necessary be as you pretend to cure the Mischief you complain of you must let it pursue and fall on the Guilty and those only in what Company soever they are and not as you here propose and is the highest Injustice punish the innocent considering Dissenter with the Guilty and on the other side let the inconsiderate guilty Conformist scape with the Innocent For one may rationally presume that the National Church has some nay more in proportion of those who little consider or concern themselves about Religion than any Congregation of Dissenters For Conscience or the Care of their Souls being once laid aside Interest of course leads Men into that Society where the Protection and Countenance of the Government and hopes of Preferment bid fairest to all their remaining Desires So that if careless negligent inconsiderate Men in Matters of Religion who without being forced would not consider are to be rouzed into a Care of their Souls and a Search after Truth by Punishments the National Religion in all Countries will certainly have a right to the greatest share of those Punishments at least not to be wholly exempt from them This is that which the Author of the Letter as I remember complains of and that justly viz. That the pretended Care of Mens Souls always expresses it self in those who would have Force any way made use of to that End in very unequal Methods some Persons being to be treated with Severity whilst others guilty of the same Faults are not to be so much as touched Though you are got pretty well out of the deep Mud and renounce Punishments directly for Religion yet you stick still in this part of the Mire whilst you would have Dissenters punished to make them consider but would not have any thing done to Conformists though never so negligent in this point of considering The Author's Letter pleased me because it is equal to all Mankind is direct and will I think hold every-where which I take to be a good Mark of Truth For I shall always suspect that neither to comport with the Truth of Religion or the Design of the Gospel which is suted to only
some one Country or Party What is True and Good in England will be True and Good at Rome too in China or Geneva But whether your great and only Method for the propagating of Truth by bringing the Inconsiderate by Punishments to consider would according to your way of applying your Punishments only to Dissenters from the National Religion be of use in those Countries or any where but where you suppose the Magistrate to be in the right judg you Pray Sir consider a little whether Prejudice has not some share in your way of arguing For this is your Position Men are generally negligent in examining the Grounds of their Religion This I grant But could there be a more wild and incoherent Consequence drawn from it than this Therefore Dissenters must be punished All this you are pleased to pass over without the least Notice but perhaps you think you have made me full Satisfaction in your Answer to my Demand who are to be punish'd We will here therefore consider that as it stands where you tell us Those who are to be punished according to the whole Tenour of your Answer are no other but such as having sufficient Evidence tender'd them of the true Religion do yet reject it whether utterly refusing to consider that Evidence or not considering as they ought viz. with such Care and Diligence as the matter deserves and requires and with honest and unbiassed Minds and what Difficulty there is in this you say you cannot imagine You promised you would tell the World who they were plainly and directly And though you tell us you cannot imagine what Difficulty there is in this your Account of who are to be punished yet there are some things in it that make it to my Apprehension not very plain and direct For first they must be only those who have the true Religion tender'd them with sufficient Evidence Wherein there appears some Difficulty to me who shall be Judg what is the true Religion and for that in every Country 't is most probable the Magistrate will be If you think of any other pray tell us Next there seems some Difficulty to know who shall be Judg what is sufficient Evidence For where a Man is to be punished by Law he must be convicted of being guilty which since in this Case he cannot be unless it be proved he has had the true Religion tender'd to him with sufficient Evidence it is necessary that some body there must be Judg what is the true Religion and what is sufficient Evidence and others to prove it has been so tender'd If you were to be of the Jury we know what would be your Verdict concerning sufficient Evidence by these Words of yours To say that a Man who has the true Religion proposed to him with sufficient Evidence of its Truth may consider it as he ought or do his utmost in considering and yet not 〈◊〉 the Truth of it is neither more nor less than to say that sufficient Evidence is not sufficient For what does any Man mean by sufficient Evidence but such as will certainly win Assent where-ever it is duly considered Upon which his conforming or not conforming would without any farther Questions determine the Point But whether the rest of the Jury could upon this be able ever to bring in any Man guilty and so liable to Punishment is a Question For if sufficient Evidence be only that which certainly wins Assent where-ever a Man does his utmost in considering 't will be very hard to prove that a Man who rejects the true Religion has had it tender'd with sufficient Evidence because it will be very hard to prove he has not done his utmost in considering it So that notwithstanding all you have here said to punish any Man by your Method is not yet so very practicable But you clear all in your following Words which say There is nothing more evident than that those who reject the true Religion are culpable and deserve to be punished By whom By Men That 's so far from being evident as you talk that it will require better Proofs than I have yet seen for it Next you say 'T is easy enough to know when Men reject the true Religion Yes when the true Religion is known and agreed on what shall be taken to be so in Judicial Proceedings which can scarce be till 't is agreed who shall determine what is true Religion and what not Suppose a Penalty should in the University be laid on those who rejected the true Peripatetick Doctrine could that Law be executed on any one unless it were agreed who should be Judg what was the true Peripatetick Doctrine If you say it may be known out of Aristotle's Writings then I answer that it would be a more reasonable Law to lay the Penalty on any one who rejected the Doctrine contained in the Books allowed to be Aristotle's and printed under his Name You may apply this to the true Religion and the Books of the Scripture if you please though after all there must be a Judg agreed on to determine what Doctrines are contained in either of those Writings before the Law can be practicable But you go on to prove that it is easy to know when Men reject the true Religion for say you that requires no more than that we know that that Religion was 〈◊〉 to them with sufficient Evidence of the Truth of it And that it may be tender'd to Men with such Evidence and that it may be known when it is so tender'd these things you say you take leave here to suppose You suppose then more than can be allow'd you For that it can be judicially known that the true Religion has been tender'd to any one with sufficient Evidence is what I deny and that for Reasons above mentioned which were there no other Difficulty in it were sufficient to shew the Unpracticableness of your Method You conclude this Paragraph thus Which is all that needs be said upon this Head to shew the Consistency and Practicableness of this Method And what do you any where say against this Whether I say any thing or no against it I will bring a Friend of yours that will say that Dissenters ought to be punished for being out of the Communion of the Church of England I will ask you now how it can be proved that such an one is guilty of rejecting the one only true Religion Perhaps it is because he 〈◊〉 the Cross in Baptism or Godfathers and Godmothers as thâ—…y are used or kneeling at the Lord's Supper perhaps it is because he cannot pronounce all damn'd that believe not all 〈◊〉 's Creed or cannot join with some of those Repetitions in our Common Prayer thinking them to come within the Prohibition of our Saviour each of which shuts a Man out from the Communion of the Church of England as much as if he denied Jesus Christ to be the Son of God Now Sir I beâ—…eech you how
Religion amongst us at present by reason of taking off the Penalties from Protestant Dissenters And I beseech you what Penalties were they Such whereby many have been ruined in their Fortunes such whereby many have lost their Liberties and some their Lives in Prisons such as have sent some into Banishment stripp'd of all they had These were the Penal Laws by which the National Religion was establish'd in England and these you call moderate for you say Where-ever true Religion or sound Christianity has been Nationally received and established by moderate Penal Laws and I hope you do not here exclude England from having its Religion so established by Law which we so often hear of or if to serve the present occasion you should would you also deny that in the following Words you speak of the present Relaxation in England where after your Appeal to all observing People for the dismal Consequences which you suppose to have every-where followed from such Relaxations you add these pathetical Words Not to speak of what at this time our Eyes cannot but see for fear of giving offence so heavy does the present Relaxation sit on your Mind which since it is of Penal Laws you call moderate I shall shew you what they are In the first Year of Q. Elizabeth there was a Penalty of 1 s. a Sunday and Holiday laid upon every one who came not to the Common Prayer then established This Penalty of 1 s. a time not prevailing as was desired in the twenty thiâ—…d Year of her Reign was increased to 20 l. a Month and Imprisonment for Non-payment within three Months after judgment given In the twenty ninth Year of Eliz. to draw this yet closer and make it more sorcible 't was enacted That whoever upon one Conviction did not continue to pay on the 20 l. per Month without any other 〈◊〉 or Proceedings against him till he submitted and conformed should forfâ—…t all his Goods and two Thirds of his Land for his Life But this beinâ—… not yet thought sufficient it was in the 35th Year of that Queen câ—…mpleated and the moderate Penal Laws upon which our National Religion was established and whose Relaxation you cannot bear but from theâ—…ce date the Decay of the very Spirit and Life of Christianity were brought to perfection 〈◊〉 then going to Conve 〈◊〉 or a Month's Absence from Church was to be punished with Imprisonment till the Offender 〈◊〉 and iâ—… 〈◊〉 cnâ—…formed not within three Months then he was to abjure the Realm and forfeit all his Goods and Chattels for ever and his Lands and Tenements during his Life And if â—…e would not abjure or abjuring did not depart the Realm within a tiâ—…e 〈◊〉 or returned again he was to suffer Death as a Felon And thus your moderate Penal Laws stood for the established Religion till their Penalties were in respect of Protestant Dissenters lately taken off And now let the Reader judg whether your pretence to moderate Punishments or my Suspicion of what a Man of your Principles might have in store for Dissenters have more of Modesty or Conscience in it since you opâ—…nly deâ—…lare your regret for the taking away such an Establishment as by the gradual increase of Penalties reached Mens Estates Liberties and Lives and which you must be presumed to allow and approve of till you tell us plainly where according to your Measures those Penalties should or according to your Principles they could have stopp'd You tell us That where this only true Religion viz. of the Church of England is received other Religions ought to be discouraged in some measure A pretty Expression for Undoing Imprisonment Banishment for those have been some of the Discouragements given to Dissenters here in England You will again no doubt cry aloud that you tell me you condemn these as much as I do If you heartily condemn them I wonder you should say so little to discourage them I wonder you are so silent in representing to the Magistrate the Unlawfulness and Danger of using them in a Discourse where you are treating of the Magistrate's Power and Duty in Matters of Religion Especially this being the side on which as far as we may guess by Experience their Prudence is aptest to err but your Modesty you know leaves all to the Magistrate's Prudence and Experience on that side though you over and over again incourage them not to neglect their Duty in the Use of Force to which you set no Bounds You tell us Certainly no Man doubts but the Prudence and Experience of Governors and Law-givers inables them to use and apply it viz. your Rule for the Measure of Punishments which I have shewed to be no Rule at all And to judg more exactly what Penalties do agree with it and therefore you must be excused if you do not take upon you to teach them what it becomes you rather to learn from them If your Modesty be such and you then did what became you you could not but learn from your Governors and Law-givers and so be satisfied till within this Year or two that those Penalties which they measured out for the Establishment of true Religion though they reaâ—…h'd to Mens Estates Liberties and Lives were such as were sit But what you have learned of your Law-makers and Governors since the Relaxation or what Opinion you have of their Experience and Prudence now is not so easy to say Perhaps you will say again that you have in express Words declared against Fire and Sword Loss of Estate maiming with corporal Punishments starving and tormenting in noisom Prisons and one cannot either in Modesty or Conscience disbelieve you Yet in the same Letter you with Sorrow and Regret speak of the Relaxation of such Penalties laid on Nonconformity by which Men have lost their Estates Liberties and Lives too in noisom Prisons and in this too must we not believe you I dare say there are very few who read that Passage of yours so feelingly it is pen'd who want Modesty or Conscience to believe you therein to be in earnest and the rather because what drops from Men by chance when they are not upon their Guard is always thought the best Interpretation of their Thoughts You name Loss of Estate of Liberty and tormenting which is corporal Punishment as if you were against them Certainly you know what you meant by these Words when you said you condemn'd them was it any Degree of Loss of Liberty or Estate any Degree of corporal Punishment that you condemn'd or only the utmost or some Degree between these unless you had then some meaning and unless you please to tell us what that meaning was where 't is that in your Opinion the Magistrate ought to stop who can believe you are in earnest This I think you may and ought to do for our Information in your System without any Apprehension that Governors and Law-givers will deem themselves much taught by you which your Modesty makes you so
and in other Places about sufficient Evidence is built upon this that the Evidence wherewith a Man proposes the true Religion he may know to be such as will not fail to gain the Assent of whosoever does what lies in him in considering it This is the Supposition without which all your Talk of sufficient Evidence will do you no Service try it where you will But it is a Supposition that is far enough from carrying with it sufficient Evidence to make it be admitted without Proof Whatever gains any Man's Assent one may be sure had sufficient Evidence in respect of that Man But that is far enough from proving it Evidence sufficient to prevail on another let him consider it as long and as much as he can The Tempers of Mens Minds the Principles setled there by Time and Education beyond the Power of the Man himself to alter them the different Capacities of Mens Understandings and the strange Ideas they are often silled with are so various and uncertain that it is impossible to find that Evidence especially in things of a mixed Disquisition depending on so long a Tâ—…ain of Consequences as some Points of the true Religion may which one can considently say will be sufficient for all Men. ' â—…is Demonstration that 3 1876 is the Product of 9467172 divided by 297 and yet I challenge you to find one Man of a thousand to whom you can tender this Proposition with demonstrative or sufficient Evidence to convince him of the Truth of it in a dark Room or ever to make this Evidence appear to a Man that cannot write and read so as to make him imbrace it as a Truth if another whom he hath more Confidence in tells him it is not so All the demonstrative Evidence the thing has all the Tender you can make of it all the Consideration he can imploy about it will never be able to discover to him that Evidence which small convince him it is true unless you will at threescore and ten for that may be the Case have him neglect his Calling go to School and learn to write and read and cast Account which he may never be able to attain to You speak more than once of Mens being brought to lay aside their Prejudices to make them consider as they ought and judg right of Matters in Religion and I grant without doing so they cannot But it is impossible for Force to make them do it unless it could shew them which are Prejudices in their Minds and distinguish them from the Truths there Who is there almost that has not Prejudices that he does not know to be so and what can Force do in that Case It can no more remove them to make way for Truth than it can remove one Truth to make way for another or rather remove an establish'd Truth or that which is look'd on as an unquestionable Principle for so are often Mens Prejudices to make way for a Truth not yet known nor appearing to be one 'T is not every one knows or can bring himself to Des Carteâ—… way of doubting and strip his Thoughts of all Opinions till he brings them to self-evident Principles and then upon them builds all his future Tenents Do not think all the World who are not of your Church abandon themselves to an utter Carelesness of their future State You cannot but allow there are many Turks who sincerely seek Truth to whom yet you could never bring Evidence sufficient to convince them of the Truth of the Christian Religion whilst they looked on it as a Principle not to be question'd that the Alcoran was of Divine Revelation This possibly you will tell me is a Prejudice and so it is but yet if this Man shall tell you 't is no more a Prejudice in him than it is a Prejudice in any one amongst Christians who having not examin'd it lays it down as an unquestionable Principle of his Religion that the Scripture is the Word of God what will you answer to him And yet it would shake a great many Christians in their Religion if they should lay by that Prejudice and suspend their Judgment of it until they had made it out to themselves with Evidence sufficient to convince one who is not prejudiced in Favour of it and it would require more Time Books Languages Learning and Skill than falls to most 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to establish them therein if you will not allow them in this so 〈◊〉 and fundamental a Point to rely on the Learning Knowledg and Judgment of some Persons whom they have in Reverence or Admiration This though you blame it as an ill way yet you can allow in one of your own Religion even to that Degree that he may be ignorant of the Grounds of his Religion And why then may you not allow it to a Turk not as a good way or as having led him to the Truth but as a way as sit for him as for one of your Church to acquiesce in and as sit to exempt him from your Force as to exempt any one of your Church from it To prevent your commenting on this in which you have shewn so much Dexterity give me leave to tell you that for all this I do not think all Religions equally true or equally certain But this I say is impossible for you or me or any Man to know whether another has done his Duty in examining the Evidence on both sides when he imbraces that side of the Question which we perhaps upon other Views judg false and therefore we can have no Right to punish or persecute him for it In this whether and how far any one is faulty must be left to the Searcher of Hearts the great and righteous Judg of all Men who knows all their Circumstances all the Powers and Workings of their Minds where 't is they sincerely follow and by what Default they at any time miss Truth And he we are sure will judg uprightly But when one Man shall think himself a competent Judg that the true Religion is proposed with Evidence sufficient for another and thence shall take upon him to punish him as an Offender because he imbraces not upon Evidence that he the Proposer judges sufficient the Religion that he judges true had need be able to look into the Thoughts of Men and know their several Abilities unless he will make his own Understanding and Faculties to be the Measure of those of all Mankind which if they be no higher elevated no larger in their Comprehension no more discerning than those of some Men he will not only be unsit to be a Judg in that but in almost any Case what soever But since 1. You make it a Condition to the making a Man an Offender in not being of the true Religion that it has been tendred him with sufficient Evidence 2. Since you think it so easy for Men to determine when the true Religion has been tender'd to any one with sufficient
Aversion to their Scruples an excellent way to soften Mens Inclinations and temper them for the Impression of Arguments and Intreaties though these too are only talked of For I cannot but wonder to find you mention as you do giving ear to Admonitions Intreaties and Perswasions when these are seldom if ever made use of but in Places where those who are to be wrought on by them are known to be out of hearing nor can be expected to come there till by such Means they have been wrought on 'T is not without reason therefore you cannot part with your Penalties and would have no end put to your Punishments but continue them on since you leave so much to their Operation and make so little use of other Means to work upon Dissenters CHAP. VI. Of the End for which Force is to be used HE that should read the beginning of your Argument considered would think it in earnest to be your Design to have Force employed to make Men seriously consider and nothing else but he that shall look a little farther into it and to that add also your defence of it will find by the variety of Ends you design your Force for that either you know not well what you would have it for or else whatever 't was you aimed at you called it still by that Name which best fitted the Occasision and would serve best in that place to recommend the Use of it You ask me Whether the Mildness and Gentleness of the Gospel destroys the coactive Power of the Magistrate I answer as you supposed No upon which you infer Then it seems the Magistrate may use his coactive Power without offending against the Mildness and Gentleness of the Gospel Yes where he has Commission and Authority to use it And so say you it will consist well enough with the Mildness and Gentleness of the Gospel for the Magistrate to use his coactive Power to procure them I suppose you mean the Ministers and Preachers of the National Religion a hearing where their Prayers and Intreaties will not do it No it will not consist with the gentle and mild Method of the Gospel unless the Gospel has directed it or something else to supply its want till it could be had As for Miracles which you pretend to have supplied the want of Force in the first Ages of Christianity you will find that considered in another place But Sir shew me a Country where the Ministers and Teachers of the National and True Religion go about with Prayers and Intreaties to procure a Hearing and cannot obtain it and there I think I need not stand with you for the Magistrate to use Force to procure it them but that I fear will not serve your turn To shew the Inconsistency and Unpracticableness of your Method I had said Let us now see to what end they must be punished Sometimes it is To bring them to consider those Reasons and Arguments which are proper and sufficient to convince them Of what That it is not easy to set Grantâ—…ani Steeple upon Paul's Church Whatever it be you would have them convinced of you are not willing to tell us and so it may be any thing Sometimes it is To incline them to lend an Ear to those who tell them they have mistaken their Way and offer to shew them the right Which is to lend an Ear to all who differ from them in Religion as well crafty Seducers as others Whether this be for the procuring the Salvation of their Souls the End for which you say this Force is to be used judg you But this I am sure Whoever will lend an Ear to all who will tell them they are out of the Way will not have much time for any other Business Sometimes it is To recover Men to so much Sobriety and Reflection as seriously to put the Question to themselves Whether it be really worth their while to undergo such Inconveniences for adhering to a Religion which for any thing they know may be false or for rejecting another if that be the case which for ought they know may be true till they have brought it to the Bar of Reason and given it a fair Trial there Which in short amounts to thus much viz. To make them examine whether their Religion be true and so worth the holding under those Penalties that are annexed to it Dissenters are indebted to you for your great care of their Souls But what I beseech you shall become of those of the National Church every where which make far the greater part of Mankind who have no such Punishments to make them consider who have not this only Remedy provided for them but are left in that deplorable Condition you mention of being suffered quietly and without molestation to take no care at all of their Souls or in doing of it to follow their own Prejudices Humours or some crafty Seducers Need not those of the National Church as well as others bring their Religion to the Bar of Reason and give it a fair Trial there And if they need to do so as they must if all National Religions cannot be supposed true they will always need that which you say is the only Means to make them do so So that if you are sure as you tell us that there is need of your Method I am sure there is as much need of it in National Churches as any other And so for ought I can see you must either punish them or let others alone unless you think it reasonable that the far greater part of Mankind should constantly be without that Soveraign and only Remedy which they stand in need of equally with other People Sometimes the End for which Men must be punished is to dispose them to submit to Instruction and to give a fair hearing to the Reasons are offer'd for the inlightning their Minds and discovering the Truth to them If their own Words may be taken for it there are as few Dissenters as Conformists in any Country who will not profess they have done and do this And if their own Words may not be taken who I pray must be Judg you and your Magistrates If so then it is plain you punish them not to dispose them to submit to Instruction but to your Instruction not to dispose them to give a fair hearing to Reasons offer'd for the inlightning their Minds but to give an obedient hearing to your Reasons If you mean this it had been fairer and shorter to have spoken out plainly than thus in fair Words of indefinite Signification to say that which amounts to nothing For what Sense is it to punish a Man to dispose him to submit to Instruction and give a fair hearing to Reasons offer'd for the inlightning his Mind and discovering Truth to him who goes two or three times a Week several Miles on purpose to do it and that with the Hazard of his Liberty or Purse unless
it will then infallibly cure Whom All that are not incurable by it And so will a Pippin-Posset eating Fish in Lent or a Presbyterian Lecture certainly cure all that are not incurable by them For I am sure you do not mean it will cure all but those who are absolutely incurable Because you your self allow one Means left of Cure when yours will not do viz. The Grace of God Your Words are What Means is there left except the Grace of God to reduce them but to lâ—…y Thorns and Briars in their Way And here also in the Place we were considering you tell us The Incurable are to be lest to God Whereby if you mean they are to be left to those Means he has ordained for Mens Conversion and Salvation yours must never be made use of For he indeed has prescribed Preaching and Hearing of his Word but as for those who will not hear I do not find any where that he has commanded they should be compell'd or beaten to it I must beg my Reader 's Pardon sor so long a Repetition which I was forced to that he might be Judg whether what I there said either deserves no Answer or be fully answered in that Paragraph where you undertake to vindicate your Method from all Impracticableness and Inconsistency chargeable upon it in reference to the End for which you would have Men punished Your Words are For what By which you say you perceive I mean â—…vo things For sometimes I speak of the Fault and sometimes of the End for which Men are to be punished and sometimes I plainly confound them Now if it be inquired For what Fault Men are to be punished you answer For rejecting the true Religion after sufficient Evidence tender'd them of the Truth of it Which certainly is a Fault and deserves Punishment But if I inquire for what End such as do reject the True Religion are to be punished you say To bring them to imbrace the True Religion and in order to that to bring them to consider and that carefully and impartially the Evidence which is offered to convince them of the Truth of it Which are undeniably just and excellent Ends and which through God's Blessing have often been procured and may yet be procured by convenient Penalties inflicted for that purpose Nor do you know of any thing I say against any part of this which is not already answered Whether I in this confound two things distinct or you distinguish where there is no difference the Reader may judg by what I have said elsewhere I shall here only consider the Ends of Punishing you here again in your Reply to me assign and those as I find them scattered are these Sometimes you speak of this End as if it were barely to gain a hearing to those who by Prayers and Intreaty cannot and those may be the Preachers of any Religion But I suppose you mean the Preachers of the True Religion And who I beseech you must be Judg of that Where the Law provides sufficient Means of Instruction for all as well as Punishment for Dissenters it is plain to all concerned that the Punishment is intended to make them consider What The Means the Law provides for their Instruction Who then is Judg of what they are to be instructed in and the Means of Instruction but the Law-maker It is to bring Men to hearken to Instruction From whom From any body And to consider and examine Matters of Religion as they ought to do and to bring those who are out of the right Way to hear consider and imbrace the Truth When is this End attained and the Penalties which are the Means to this End taken off When a Man conforms to the National Church And who then is Judg of what is the Truth to be imbraced but the Magistrate It is to bring Men to consider those Reasons and Arguments which are proper and sufficient to convince them but which without being forced they would not consider And when have they done this When they have once conformed for after that there is no Force used to make them consider farther It is to make Men consider as they ought and that you tell us is so to consider as to be moved heartily to imbrace and not to reject Truth necessary to Salvation And when is the Magistrate that has the care of Mens Souls and does all this for their Salvation satisfied that they have so considered As soon as they outwardly join in Communion with the National Church It is to bring Men to consider and examine those Controversies which they are bound to consider and examine i. e. those wherein they cannot err without dishonouring God and indangering their own and other Mens Salvations And to study the True Religion with such Care and Diligence as they might and ought to use and with an honest Mind And when in your Opinion is it presumable that any Man has done all this Even when he is in the Communion of your Church It is to cure Mens unreasonable Prejudices and Refractoriness against and Aversion to the True Religion Whereof none retain the least Tincture or Suspicion who are once got within the Pale of your Church It is to bring Men into the right Way into the Way of Salvation which Force does when it has conducted them within the Church-Porch and there leaves them It is to bring Men to imbrace the Truth that must save them And here in the Paragraph wherein you pretend to tell us for what Force is to be used you say It is to bring Men to imbrace the true Religion and in order to that to bring them to consider and that carefully and impartially the Evidence which is offered to convince them of the Truth of it which as you say are undeniable just and excellent Ends but yet such as Force in your Method can never practically be made a Means to without supposing what you say you have no need to suppose viz. that your Religion is the true unless you had rather every where to leave it to the Magistrate to judg which is the right Way what is the true Religion which Supposition I imagine will less accommodate you than the other But take which of them you will you must add this other Supposition to it harder to be granted you than either of the former viz. That those who conform to your Church here if you make your self the Judg or to the National Church any where if you make the Magistrate Judg of the Truth that must save Men and those only have attained these Ends. The Magistrate you say is obliged to do what in him lies to bring all his Subjects to examine carefully and impartially Matters of Religion and to consider them as they ought i. e. so as to imbroce the Truth that must save them The proper and necessary Means you say to attain these Ends is
Force And your Method of using this Force is to punish all the Dissenters from the National Religion and none of those who outwardly conform to it Make this practicable now in any Country in the World without allowing the Magistrate to be Judg what is the Truth that must save them and without supposing also that whoever do imbrace the outward Profession of the National Religion do in their Hearts imbrace i. e. believe and obey the Truth that must save them and then I think nothing in Government can be too hard for your undertaking You conclude this Paragraph in telling me You do not know of any thing I say against any part of this which is not already answered Pray tell me where 't is you have answered those Objections I made to those several Ends which you assigned in your Argument considered and for which you would have Force used and which I have here reprinted again because I do not find you so much as take notice of them and therefore the Reader must judg whether they needed any Answer or no. But to shew that you have not here where you promise and pretend to do it clearly and directly told us for what Force and Penalties are to be used I shall in the next Chapter examine what you mean by bringing Men to imbrace the True Religion CHAP. VII Of your bringing Men to the True Religion TRue Religion is on all hands acknowledged to be so much the Concern and Interest of all Mankind that nothing can be named which so much effectually bespeakâ—… the Approbation and Favour of the Publick The very intitling one's self to that sets a Man on the right side Who dares question such a Cause or oppose what is offered for the promoting the True Religion This Advantage you have secured to your self from unattentive Readers as much as by the often-repeated mention of the True Religion is possible there being scarce a Page wherein the True Religion does not appear as if you had nothing else in your Thoughts but the bringing Men to it for the Salvation of their Souls Whether it be so in earnest we will now see You tell us Whatever Hardships some false Religions may impose it will however always be easier to carnal and worldly minded Men to give even the first-born for their Transgressions than to mortify the Lusts from which they spring which no Religion but the True requires of them Upon this you ground the Neâ—…essity of Force to bring Men to the True Religion and charge it on the Magistrate as his Duty to use it to that End What now in appearance can express greater Care to bring Men to the True Religion But let us see what you say in p. 64. and we shall sind that in your Scheme nothing less is meant there you tell us The Magistrate inflicts the Penalties only upon them that break the Lawâ—… And that Law requiring nothing but Conformity to the National Religion noâ—… but Nonconformists are punished So that unless an outward Profession of the National Religion be by the Mortification of Mens Lusts harder than their giving their First-born for their Transgression all the Penalties you contend sor concern not â—…nor can be intended to bring Men effectually to the True Religion since they leave them before they come to the Difficulty which is to mortify their Lusts as the True Religion requires So that your bringing Men to the True Religion being to bring them to Conformity to the National for then you have done with Force how far that outward Consormity is from being heartily of the True Religion may be known by the distance there is between the easiest and the hardest thing in the World For there is nothing easier than to profess in Words nothing harder than to subdue the Heart and bring Thoughts and Deeds into Obedience of the Truth The latter is what is required to be of the True Religion the other all that is required by Penalties your way applied If you say Conformists to the National Religion are required by the Law Civil and Ecclesiastical to lead good Lives which is the difficult part of the True Religion I answer These are not the Laws we are here speaking of nor those which the Defenders of Toleration complain of but the Laws that put a distinction between outward Conformists and Nonconformists and those they say whatever may be talked of the True Religion can never be meant to bring Men really to the True Religion as long as the True Religion is and is confessed to be a thing of so much greater difficulty than outward Conformity Miracles say you supplied the want of Force in the beginning of Christianity and therefore so far as they supplied that Want they must be subservient to the same End The End then was to bring Men into the Christian Church into which they were admitted and received as Brethren when they acknowledged that Jesus was the Christ the Son of God Will that serve the turn No Force must be used to make Men imbrace Creeds and Ceremonies i. e. outwardly conform to the Doctrine and Worship of your Church Nothing more than that is required by your Penalties nothing less than that will excuse from Punishment that and nothing but that will serve the turn that therefore and only that is what you mean by the True Religion you would have Force used to bring Men to When I tell you You have a very ill Opinion of the Religion on of the Church of England and must own it can only be propagated and supported by Force if you do not think it would be a Gainer by a general Toleration all the World over You ask Why you may not have as good an Opinion of the Church of England's as you have of Noah's Religion notwithstanding you think it cannot now be propagated or supported without using some kinds or degrees of Force When you have proved that Noah's Religion that from eight Persons spread and continued in the World till the Apostles Times as I have proved in another place was propagated and supported all that while by your kinds or degrees of Force you may have some reason to think as well of the Religion of the Church of England as you have of Noah's Religion though you think it cannot be propagated and supported without some kinds or degrees of Force But till you can prove that you cannot upon that ground say you have reason to have so good an Opinion of it You tell me If I will take your Word for it you assure me you think there are many other Countries in the World besides England where my Toleration would be as little useful to Truth as in England If you will name those Countries which will be no great pains I will take your word for it that you believe Toleration there would be prejudicial to Truth but if you will not do that neither I nor any body else can believe you I
will give you a Reason why I say so and that is Because no body can believe that upon your Principles you can allow any National Religion differing from that of the Church of England to be true and where the National Reliâ—…ion is not true we have already your Consent as in Spain and Italy c. for Toleration Now that you cannot without renouncing your own Principles allow any National Religion differing from that establish'd here by Law to be true is evident For why do you punish Nonconformists here To bring them say you to the True Religion But what if they hold nothing but what that other differing National Church does shall they be nevertheless punished if they conform not You will certainly say Yes and if so then you must either say they are not of the True Religion or else you must own you punish those to bring them to the True Religion whom you allow to be of the True Religion already You tell me If I own with our Author that there is but one True Religion and I owning my self to be of the Church of England you cannot see how I can avoid supposing that the National Religion now in England back'd by the publick Authority of the Law is the only True Religion If I own as I do all that you here expect from me yet it will not serve to draw that Conclusion from it which you do viz. That the National Religion now in England is the only True Religion taking the True Religion in the Sense that I do and you ought to take it I grant that there is but one True Religion in the World which is that whose Doctrine and Worship are necessary to Salvation I grant too that the True Religion necessary to Salvation is taught and professed in the Church of England and yet it will not follow from hence that the Religion of the Church of England as established by Law is the only True Religion if there be any thing established in the Church of England by Law and made part of its Religion which is not necessary to Salvation and which any other Church teaching and professing all that is necessary to Salvation does not receive If the National Religion now in England back'd by the Authority of the Law be as you would have it the only true Religion so the only true Religion that a Man cannot be saved without being of it Pray reconcile this with what you say in the immediately preceding Paragraph viz. That there are many other Countries in the World where my Toleration would be as little useful as in England For if there be other National Religions differing from that of England which you allow to be true and wherein Men may be saved the National Religion of England as now established by Law is not the only true Religion and Men may be saved without being of it And then the Magistrate can upon your Principles have no Authority to use Force to bring Men to be of it For you tell us Force is not lawful unless it be necessary and therefore the Magistrate can never lawfully use it but to bring Men to believe and practise what is necessary to Salvation You must therefore either hold that there is nothing in the Doctrine Discipline and Ceremonies of the Church of England as it is established by Law but what is necessary to Salvation Or else you must reform your Terms of Communion before the Magistrate upon your Principles can use Penalties to make Men consider till they conform or you can say that the National Religion of England is the only true Religion though it contain the only true Religion in it as possibly most if not all the differing Christian Churches now in the World do You tell us farther in the next Paragraph That where-ever this only true Religion i. e. the National Religion now in England is received all other Religions ought to be discouraged Why I beseech you discourag'd if they be true any of them For if they be true what Pretence is there for Force to bring Men who are of them to the true Religion If you say all other Religions varying at all from that of the Church of England are false we know then your measure of the one only true Religion But that your Care is only of Conformity to the Church of England and that by the true Religion you mean nothing else appears too from your way of expressing your self in thiâ—… Passage where you own that you suppose that as this only true Religion to wit the National Religion now in England back'd with the publick Authority of Law ought to be received where-ever it is preached so where-ever it is received all other Religions ought to be discouraged in some measure by the Civil Powers If the Religion establish'd by Law in England be the only true Religion ought it not be preached and received every where and all other Religions discouraged throughout the World and ought not the Magistrates of all Countries to take Care that it should be so But you only say where-ever it is preach'd it ought to be received and where-ever it is received other Religions ought to be discouraged which is well suted to your Scheme for inforcing Conformity in England but could scarce drop from a Man whose Thoughts were on the true Religion and the promoting of it in other Parts ' of the World Force then must be used in England and Penalties laid on Dissenters there For what to bring them to the true Religion whereby it is plain you mean not only the Doctrine but Discipline and Ceremonies of the Church of England and make them a part of the only true Religion Why else do you punish all Dissenters for rejecting the true Religion and use Force to bring them to it When yet a great if not the greatest part of Dissenters in England own and profess the Doctrine of the Church of England as firmly as those in the Communion of the Church of England They therefore though they believe the same Religion with you are excluded from the true Church of God that you would have Men brought to and are amongst those who reject the true Religion I ask whether they are not in your Opinion out of the way of Salvation who are not joined in Communion with the true Church and whether there can be any true Church without Bishops If so all but Conformists in England that are of any Church in Europe besides the Lutherans and Papists are out of the way of Salvation and so according to your System have need of Force to be brought into it and these too one for their Doctrine of Transubstantiation the other for that of Consubstantiation to omit other things vastly differing from the Church of England you will not I suppose allow to be of the true Religion And who then are left of the true Religion but the Church of England For the Abyssines have too wide a
Difference in many Points for me to imagine that is one of those Places you mean where Toleration would do harm as well as in England And I think the Religion of the Greek Church can â—…carce be supposed by you to be the true For if it should it would be a strong Instance against your Assertion that the true Religion cannot subsist but would quickly be effectually extirpated without the Assistance of Authority since this has subsisted without any such Assistance now above 200 Years I take it then for granted and others with me cannot but do the same till you tell us what other Religion there is of any Church but that of England which you allow to be the true Religion that all you say of bringing Men to the true Religion is only bringing them to the Religion of the Church of England If I do you an Injury in this it will be capable of a very easy Vindication for it is but naming that other Church differing from that of England which you allow to have the true Religion and I shall yield my self convinc'd and shall allow these Words viz. The National Religion now in England back'd by the publick Authority of Law being the only true Religion only as a little hasty Sally of your Zeal In the mean time I shall argue with you about the Use of Force to bring Men to the Religion of the Church of England as established by Law since it is more easy to know what that is than what you mean by the true Religion if you mean any thing else To proceed therefore in the next place I tell you by using Force your way to bring Men to the Religion of the Church of England you mean only to bring them to an outward Profession of that Religion and that as I have told you elsewhere because Force used your way being applied only to Dissenters and ceasing as soon as they conform whether it be intended by the Law-maker for any thing more or no which we have examined in another Place cannot be to bring Men to any thing moâ—…e than outward Conformity For if Force be used to Dissenters and them only to bring Men to the true Religion and always as soon as it has brought Men to Conformity it be taken off and laid aside as having done all is expected froâ—… it 't is plain that by bringing Men to the true Religion and bringing them to outward Conformity you mean the same thing You use and continue Force upon Dissenters because you expect some Effect from it when you take it off it has wrought that Effect or else being in your Power why do you not continue it on The Effect then that you talk of being the imbracing the true Religion and the thing you are satisfied with without any farther Punishment Expectation or Inquiry being outward Conformity 't is plain imbracing the true Religion and outward Conformity with you are the same things Neither can you say it is presumable that those who outwardly conform do really understand and inwardly in their Hearts imbrace with a lively Faith and a sincere Obedience the Truth that must save them 1. Because it being as you tell us the Magistrate's Duty to do all that in him lies for the Salvation of all his Subjects and it being in his Power to examine whether they know and live sutable to the Truth that must save them as well as conform he can or ought no more to presume that they do so without taking an Account of their Knowledg and Lives than he can or ought to presume that they conform without taking any Account of their Coming to Church Would you think that Physician discharged his Duty and had as was pretended a Care of Mens Lives who having got them into his Hands and knowing no more of them but that they come once or twice a Week to the Apothecary's Shop to hear what is prescribed them and sit there a while should say it was presumable they were recovered without ever examining whether his Prescriptions had any Effect or what Estate their Health was in 2. It cannot be presumable where there are so many visible Instances to the contrary He must pass for an admirable Presumer who will seriously affirm that it is presumable that all those who conform to the National Religion where it is true do so understand believe and practise it as to be in the way of Salvation 3. It cannot be presumable that Men have parted with their Corruption and Lusts to avoid Force when they fly to Conformity which can shelter them from Force without quitting their Lusts. That which is dearer to Men than their First-born is you tell us their Lusts that which is harder than the Hardships of false Religions is the mortifying those Lusts here lies the Difficulty of the true Religion that it requires the mortifying of those Lusts and till that be done Men are not of the true Religion nor in the way of Salvation And 't is upon this Account only that you pretend Force to be needful Force is used to make them hear it prevails Men hear but that is not enough because the Difficulty lies not in that they may hear Arguments for the Truth and yet retain their Corruption They must do more they must consider those Arguments Who requires it of them The Law that insticts the Punishment does not but this we may be sure their Love of their Lusts and their Hatred of Punishment requires of them and will bring them to viz. to consider how to retain their beloved Lusts and yet avoid the Uneasiness of the Punishment they lie under this is presumable they do therefore they go one easy Step farther they conform and then they are safe from Force and may still retain their Corruption Is it therefore presumable they have parted with their Corruption because Force has driven them to take Sanctuary against Punishment in Conformity where Force is no longer to molest them or pull them from their darling Inclinations The Difficulty in Religion is you say for Men to part with their Lusts this makes Force necessary Men find out a way by consorming to avoid Force without parting with their Lusts therefore it is presumable when they conâ—…orm that Force which they can avoid without quitting their Lusts has made them part with them which is indeed not to part with their Lusts because of Force but to part with them gratis which if you can say is presumable the Foundation of your need of Force which you place in the Prevalency of Corruption and Mens adhering to their Lusts will be gone and so there will be no need of Force at all If the great Difficulty in Religion be for Men to part with or mortify their Lusts and the only Counter-ballance in the other Scale to assist the true Religion to prevail against their Lusts be Force which I beseech you is presumable if they can avoid Force and retain their Lusts that they
should quit their Lusts and heartily imbrace the true Religion which iâ—… incompatible with them or else that they should avoid the Force and retain their Lusts To say the former of these is to say that it is presumable that they will quit their Lusts and heartily imbrace the true Religion for its own sake for he that heartily imbraces the true Religion because of a Force which he knows he can avoid at Pleasure without quitting his Lusts cannot be said so to imbrace it because of that Force Since a Force he can avoid without quitting his Lusts cannot be said to assist Truth in making him quit them For in this Truth has no Assistance from it at all So that this iâ—… to say there is no need of Force at all in the Case Take a coâ—…tous Wretch whose Heart is so set upon Money that he would give his First-born to save his Bags who is pursued by the Force of the Magistrate to an Arrest and compelled to hear what is alledg'd against him and the Prosecution of the Law threatning Imprisonment or other Punishment if he do not pay the just Debt which is demanded of him If he enters himself in â—…he Kiâ—…g's Bench where he can enjoy his Freedom without paying the Debt and parting with his Money will you say that it is presumable he did it to pay the Dâ—…bt and not to avoid the Force of the Law The Lust of the Flesh and Pride of Life are as strong and prevalent as the Lust of the Eye And if you will deliberately say again that it is presumable that Men are driven by Force to consider so as to part with their Lusts when no more is known of them but that they do what discharges them from the Force without any Necessity of parting with their Lusts I think I shall have occasion to send you to my Pagans and Mahometans but shall have no need to say any thing more to you of this matter my self I agree with you that there is but one only true Religion I agree too that that one only true Religion is professed and held in the Church of England and yet I deny if Force may be used to bring Men to that true Religion that upon your Principles it can lawfully be used to bring Men to the National Religion in England as established by Law because Force according to your own Rule being only lawful because it is necessary and therefore unfit to be used where not necessary i. e. necessary to bring Men to Salvation it can never be lawful to be used to bring a Man to any thing that is not necessary to Salvation as I have more fully shewn in another Place If therefore in the National Religion of England there be any thing put in as necessary to Communion that is though true yet not necessary to Salvation Force cannot be lawfully used to bring Men to that Communion though the thing so required in it self may perhaps be true There be a great many Truths contained in Scripture which a Man may be ignorant of and consequently not believe without any Danger to his Salvation or else very few would be capable of Salvation for I think I may truly say there was never any one but he that was the Wisdom of the Father who was not ignorant of some and mistaken in others of them To bring Men therefore to imbrace such Truths the Use of Force by your own Rule cannot be lawful because the Belief or Knowledg of those Truths themselves not being necessary to Salvation there can be no Necessity Men should be brought to imbrace them and so no Necessity to use Force to bring Men to imbrace them The only true Religion which is necessary to Salvation may in one National Church have that joined with it which in it self is manifestly false and repugnant to Salvation in such a Communion no Man can join without quitting the way of Salvation In another National Church with this only true Religion may be joined what is neither repugnant nor necessary to Salvation and of such there may be several Churches differing one from another in Confessions Ceremonies and Discipline which are usually call'd different Religions with either or each of which a good Man if satisfied in his own Mind may communicate without Danger whilst another not satisfied in Conscience concerning something in the Doctrine Discipline or Worship cannot safely nor without Sin communicate with this or that of them Nor can Force be lawfully used on your Principles to bring any Man to either of them because such things are required to their Communion which not being requisite to Salvation Men may seriously and conscientiously differ and be in doubt about without indangering their Souls That which here raises a Noise and gives a Credit to it whereby many are misled into an unwarrantable Zeal is that these are called different Religions and every one thinking his own the true the only true condemns all the rest as false Religions Whereas those who hold all things necessary to Salvation and add not thereto any thing in Doctrine Discipline or Worship inconsistent with Salvation are of one and the same Religion though divided into different Societies or Churches under different Forms which whether the Passion and Polity of designing or the sober and pious Intention of well-meaning Men set up they are no other than the Contrivances of Men and such they ought to be esteemed in whatsoever is required in them which God has not made necessary to Salvation however in its own Nature it may be indifferent lawful or true For none of the Articles or Confessions of any Church that I know containing in them all the Truths of Religion though they contain some that are not necessary to Salvation to garble thus the Truths of Religion and by their own Authority take some not necessary to Salvation and make them the terms of Communion and leave out others as necessary to be known and believed is purely the Contrivance of Men God never having appointed any such distinguishing System nor as I have shew'd can Force upon your Principles lawfully be used to bring Men to imbrace it Concerning Ceremonies I shall here only ask you whether you think Kneeling at the Lord's Supper or the Cross in Baptism are necessary to Salvation I mention these as having been matter of great Scrâ—…ple if you will not say they are how can you say that Force can be lawfully used to bring Men into a Communion to which these are made necessary If you say Kneeling is necessary to a decent Uniformity for of the Cross in Baptism I have spoken elsewhere though that should be true yet 't is an Argument you cannot use for it if you are of the Church of England for if a decent Uniformity may be well enough preserved without kneeling at Prayer where Decency requires it at least as much as at receiving the Sacrament why may it not well enough be preserved without kneeling
at the Sacrament Now that Uniformity is thought sufficiently preserved without kneeling at Prayer is evident by the various Postures Men are at liberty to use and may be generally observed in all our Congregations during the Minister's Prayer in the Pulpit before and after his Sermon which it seems can consist well enough with Decency and Uniformity tho it be at Prayer addressed to the great God of Heaven and Earth to whose Majesty it is that the Reverence to be expressed in our Gestures is due when we put up Petitions to him who is invariably the same in what or whose Words soever we address our selves to him The Preface to the Book of Common-Prayer tells us That the Riâ—…es and Ceremonies appointed to be used in Divine Worship are things in their own Nature indifferent and alterable Here I ask you whether any humane Power can make any thing in its own nature indifferent necessary to Salvation If it cannot then neither can any Humane Power be justified in the use of Force to bring Men to Conformity in the use of such things If you think Men have Authority to make any thing in it self indifferent a necessary part of God's Worship I shall desire you to consider what our Author says of this Matter which has not yet deserved your notice The misapplying his Power you say is a Sin in the Magistrate and lays him open to Divine Vengeance And is it not a misapplying of his Power and a Sin in him to use Force to bring Men to such a Compliance in an indifferent thing which in Religious Worship may be a Sin to them Force you say may be used to punish those who dissent from the Communion of the Church of England Let us suppose now all its Doctrines not only true but necessary to Salvation but that there is put into the Terms of its Communion some indifferent Action which God has not enjoin'd nor made a part of his Worship which any Man is perswaded in his Conscience not to be lawful suppose kneeling at the Sacrament which having been superstitiously used in Adoration of the Bread as the real Body of Christ may give occasion of scruple to some now as well as eating of Flesh offered to Idols did to others in the Apostles time which though lawful in it self yet the Apostle said he would eat no Flesh while the World standeth rather than make his weak Brother offend And if to lead by Example the Scrupulous into any Action in it self indifferent which they thought unlawful be a Sin as appears at large Rom. XIV how much more is it to add Force to our Example and to compel Men by Punishments to that which though indifferent in it self they cannot join in without sinning I desire you to shew me how Force can be necessary in such a Case without which you acknowledg it not to be lawful Not to kneel at the Lord's Supper God not having ordained it is not a Sin and the Apostles receiving it in the Posture of sitting or lying which was then used at Meat is an Evidence it may be received not kneeling But to him that thinks Kneeling is unlawful it is certainly a Sin And for this you may take the Authority of a very Judicious and Reverend Prelate of our Church in these Words Where a Man is mistaken in his Judgment even in that Case it is always a Sin to act against it by so doing he wilfully acts against the best Light which at present he has for the direction of his Actions I need not here repeat his Reasons having already quoted him above more at large though the whole Passage writ as he uses with great Strength and Clearness deserves to be read and considered If therefore the Magistrate enjoins such an unnecessary Ceremony and uses Force to bring any Man to a sinful Communion with our Church in it let me ask you Doth he sin or misapply his Power or no True and false Religions are Names that easily engage Mens Affections on the hearing of them the one being the Aversion the other the Desire at least as they perswade themselves of all Mankind This makes Men forwardly give into these Names where-ever they meet with them and when mention is made of bringing Men from false to the true Religion very often without knowing what is meant by those Names they think nothing can be done too much in such a Business to which they intitle God's Honour and the Salvation of Mens Souls I shall therefore desire of you if you are that fair and sincere Lover of Truth you profess when you write again to tell us what you mean by true and what by a false Religion that we may know which in your sense are so for as you now have used these Words in your Treatise one of them seems to stand only for the Religion of the Church of England and the other for that of all other Churches I expect here you should make the same Outcries against me as you have in your former Letter for imposing a Sense upon your Words contrary to your Meaning and for this you will appeal to your own Words in some other Places but of this I shall leave the Reader Judg and tell him this is a Way very easy and very usual for Men who having not clear and consistent Notions keep themselves as much as they can under the shelter of general and variously applicable Terms that they may save themselves from the Absurdities or Consequences of one Place by a help from some general or contrary Expression in another Whether it be a desire of Victory or a little too warm Zeal for a Cause you have been hitherto perswaded of which hath led you into this way of writing I shall only mind you that the Cause of God requires nothing but what may be spoken out plainly in a clear determined Sense without any reserve or cover In the mean time this I shall leave with you as evident That Force upon your ground cannot be lawfully used to bring Men to the Communion of the Church of England that being all that I can find you clearly mean by the True Religion till you have proved that all that is required of one in that Communion is necessary to Salvation However therefore you tell us That convenient Force used to bring Men to the true Religion is all that you contend for and all that you allow That it is for promoting the true Religion That it is to bring Men to consider so as not to reject the Truth necessary to Salvation .... To bring Men to imbrace the Truth that must save them And abundance more to this purpose Yet all this Talk of the true Religion amounting to no more but the National Religion established by Law in England and your bringing Men to it to no more than bringing them to an outward Profession of it it would better have suted that Condition viz. without Prejudice
and with an honest Mind which you require in others to have spoke plainly what you aimed at rather than prepossess Mens Minds in favour of your Cause by the Impressions of a Name that in truth did not properly belong to it It was not therefore without ground that I said I suspected you built all on this lurking Supposition that the National Religion now in England back'd by the publick Authority of the Law is the only true Religion and therefore no other is to be tolerated which being a Supposition equally unavoidable and equally just in other Countries unless that we can imagine that every-where but in England Men believe what at the same time they think to be a Lie c. Here you erect your Plumes and to this your triumphant Logick gives you not Patience to answer without an Air of Victory in the entrance How Sir is this Supposition equally unavoidable and equally just in other Countries where false Religions are the National for that you must mean or nothing to the purpose Hold Sir you go too fast take your own System with you and you will perceive it will be enough to my purpose if I mean those Religions which you take to be false for if there be any other National Churches which agreeing with the Church of England in what is necessary to Salvation yet have established Ceremonies different from those of the Church of England should not any one who dissented here from the Church of England upon that account as preferring that to our Way of Worship be justly punished If so then Punishment in Matters of Religion being only to bring Men to the true Religion you must suppose him not to be yet of it and so the National Church he approves of not to be of the true Religion And yet is it not equally unavoidable and equally just that that Church should suppose its Religion the only true Religion as it is that yours should do so it agrecing with yours in things necessary to Salvation and having made some things in their own nature indifferent requisite to Conformity for Decency and Order as you have done So that my saying It is equally unavoidable and equally just in other Countries will hold good without meaning what you charge on me that that Supposition is equally unavoidable and equally just where the National Religion is absolutely false But in that large Sense too what I said will hold good and you would have spared your useless Subtilties against it if you had been as willing to take my Meaning and answered my Argument as you were to turn what I said to a Sense which the Words themselves shew I never intended My Argument in short was this That granting Force to be useful to propagate and support Religion yet it would be no Advantage to the true Religion that you a Member of the Church of England supposing yours to be the true Religion should thereby claim a Right to use Force since such a Supposition to those who were Members of other Churches and believed other Religions was equally unavoidable and equally just And the Reason I annexed shews both this to be my Meaning and my Assertion to be true My Words are Unless we can imaginâ—… that every-where but in England Men believe what at the samâ—… time they think to be a Lie Having therefore never said nor thought that it is equally unavoidable or equally just that Men in every Country should believe the National Religion of the Country but that it is equally unavoidable and equally just that Men believing the National Religion of their Country be it true or false should suppose it to be true and let me here add also should endeavour to propagate it you however go on thus to reply If so then I fear it will be equally true too and equally rational for otherwise I see not how it can be equally unavoidable or equally just for if it be not equally true it cannot be equally just and if it be not equally rational it cannot be equally unavoidable But if it be equally true and equally rational then either all Religions are true or none is true for if they be all equally true and one of them be not true then none of them can be true I challenge any one to put these four good Words unavoidable just rational and true more equally together or to make a better-wrought Deduction but after all my Argument will nevertheless be good that it is no Advantage to your Cause for you or any one of it to suppose yours to be the only true Religion since it is equally unavoidable and equally just for any one who believes any other Religion to suppose the same thing And this will always be so till you can shew that Men cannot receive false Religions upon Arguments that appear to them to be good or that having received Falshood under the appearance of Truth they can whilst it so appears do otherwise than value it and be acted by it as if it were true For the Equality that is here in question depends not upon the Truth of the Opinion imbraced but on this that the Light and Perswasion a Man has at present is the Guide which he ought to follow and which in his Judgment of Truth he cannot avoid to be governed by And therefore the terrible Consequences you dilate on in the following part of that Page I leave you for your private Use on some sitter Occasion You therefore who are so apt without cause to complain of want of Ingenuity in others will do well hereafter to consult your own and another time change your Stile and not under the undesined Name of the true Religion because that is of more Advantage to your Argument mean only the Religion established by Law in England shutting out all other Religions now professed in the World Though when you have defined what is the true Religion which you would have supported and propagated by Force and have told us 't is to be found in the Liturgy and thirty nine Articles of the Church of England and it be agreed to you that that is the only true Religion your Argument for Force as necessary to Mens Salvation from the want of Light and Strength enough in the true Religion to prevail against Mens Lusts and the Corruption of their Nature will not hold because your bringing Men by Force your way applied to the true Religion be it what you will is but bringing them to an outward Conformity to the National Church But the bringing them so far and no farther having no opposition to their Lusts no Inconsistency with their corrupt Nature is not on that account at all necessary nor does at all help where only on your grounds you say there is need of the Assistance of Force towards their Salvation CHAP. VIII Of Salvation to be procured by Force your way THere cannot be imagined a more laudable Design than the promoting the Salvation of Mens
which without being forced they would not consider To bring Men to that Consideration which nothing else but Force besides the extraordinary Grace of God would bring them to To make Men good Christians To make Men receive Instruction To cure their Aversion to the true Religion To bring Men to consider and examine the Controversies which they are bound to consider and examine i. e. those wherein they cannot err without dishonouring God and endangering their own and other Mens eternal Salvation To weigh Matters of Religion carefully and impartially To bring Men to the true Religion and to Salvation That then Force is not applied to all the Subjects for these Ends I think you will not deny These are the Ends for which you tell us in the Places quoted that Force is to be used in Matters of Religion 'T is by its Vsefulness and Necessity to those Ends that you tell us the Magistrate is authorized and obliged to use Force in Matters of 〈◊〉 Now if all these Ends be not attained by a bare 〈◊〉 and yet if by a bare Conformity Men are wholly exempt from all Force and Penalties in Matters of Religion will you say that for these Ends Force is applied to all the Magistrate's Subjects If you will I must send you to my Pagans and 〈◊〉 for a little Conscience and Modesty If you 〈◊〉 Force 〈◊〉 not 〈◊〉 to all for these Ends notwithstanding any Laws obliging all to Conformity you must also confess 〈◊〉 what you say concerning the Laws being general is nothing to the Purpose since all that are under Penalties for not 〈◊〉 are not under any Penalties for Ignorance Irreligion or the want of those Ends for which you say Penalties are useful and necessary You go on And therefore if such Persons profane the Sacrament to keep their Places or to obtain Licences to sell Ale this is an horrible Wickedness I 〈◊〉 them not But it is their own and they alone must answer for it Yes and those who threatned poor ignorant and irreligious Ale-sellers whose Livelihood it was to take away their Licences if they did not conform and receive the Sacrament may be thought perhaps to have something to answer for You add But it is very unjust to impute it to those who make such Laws and use such Force or to say that they prostitute holy things and drive Men to profane them Nor is it just to insinuate in your Answer as if that had been said which was not But if it be true that a poor ignorant loose irreligious Wretch should be threatned to be turn'd out of his Calling and Livelihood if he would not take the Sacrament May it not be said these holy things have been so low prostituted And if this be not profaning them pray tell me what is This I think may be said without Injustice to any body that it does not appear that those who make strict Laws for Conformity and take no Care to have it examined upon what Grounds Men conform are not very much concern'd that Mens Understandings should be convinced And though you go on to say that they design by their Laws to do what lies in them to make Men good Christians That will scarce be believed if what you say be true that Force is necessary to bring those who cannot be otherwise brought to it to study the true Religion with such Care and Diligence as they might and ought to use and with an honest Mind And yet we see a great part or any of those who are ignorant in the true Religion have no such Force applied to them especially since you tell us in the same Place that no Man ever studied the true Religion with such Care and Diligence as he might and ought to use and with an honest Mind but he was convinced of the Truth of it If then Force and Penalties can produce that Study Care Diligence and honest Mind which will produce Knowledg and Conviction and that as you say in the following Words make good Men I ask you if there be found in the Communion of the Church exempt from Force upon the Account of Religion ignorant irreligious ill Men and that to speak moderately not in great Disproportion fewer than amongst the Nonconformists will you believe your self when you say the Magistrates do by their Laws all that in them lies to make them good Christians when they use not that Force to them which you not I say is necessary and that they are where it is necessary obliged to use And therefore I give you leave to repeat again the Words you subjoin here But if after all they i. e. the Magistrates can do wicked and godless Men will still resolve to be so they will be so and I know not who but God Almighty can help it But this being spoken of Conformists on whom the Magistrates lay no Penalties use no Force for Religion give me leave to mind you of the Ingenuity of one of my Pagans or Mahometans You tell us That the Usefulness of Force to make Scholars learn authorizes Schoolmasters to use it And would you not think a Schoolmaster discharged his Duty well and had a great Care of their Learning who used his Rod only to bring Boys to School but if they come there once a Week whether they slept or only minded their Play never examined what Proficiency they made or used the Rod to make them study and learn tho they would not apply themselves without it But to shew you how much you your self are in earnest for the Salvation of Souls in this your Method I shall set down what I said p. 61. of my Letter on that Subject and what you answer p. 68. of yours L. 2. p. 61. You speak of it here as the most deplorable Condition imaginable that Men should be left to themselves and not be forced to consider and examine the Grounds of their Religion and search impartially and diligently after the Truth This you make the great Miscarriage of Mankind and for this you seem solicitous all through your Treatise to find out a Remedy and there is scarce a Leaf wherein you do not offer yours But what if after all now you should be found to prevaricate Men have contrived to themselves say you a great Variety of Religions 'T is granted They seek not the Truth in this matter with that Application of Mind and that freedom of Judgment which is requisite 'T is confessed All the false Religions now on foot in the World have taken their rise from the slight and partial Consideration which Men have contented themselves with in searching after the true and Men take them up and persist in them for want of due Examination Be it so There is need of a Remedy for this and I have found one whose Success cannot be questioned Very well What is it Let us hear it Why Dissenters must be punished Can any body that
them with sufficient Evidence But then to let you see how little ground you have to say that I prevaricate in this matter I shall only desire you to consider what it is that the Author and my self were enquiring after For it is not What Course is to be taken to confirm and establish those in the Truth who have already embraced it nor How they may be enabled to propagate it to others for both which Purposes I have already acknowledged it very useful and a thing much to be desired that all such Persons should as far as they are able search into the Grounds upon which their Religion stands and challenges their Belief but the Subject of our Enquiry is only What Method is to be used 〈◊〉 bring Men to the true Religion Now if this be the only thing we were inquiring after as you cannot deny it to be then every one sees that in speaking to this Point I had nothing to do with any who have already imbraced the true Religion because they are not to be brought to that Religion but only to be confirmed and edified in it but was only to consider how those who reject it may be brought to imbrace it So that how much soever any of those who own the true Religion may be guilty of neglect of Examination 't is evident I was only concerned to shew how it may be cured in those who by reason of it reject the true Religion duly proposed or tender'd to them And certainly to confine my self to this is not to prevaricate unless to keep within the Bounds which the Question under debate prescribes me be to prevaricate In telling me therefore that I dare not say that the Ignorant the Careless the Inconsiderate the Negligent in examining c. i. e. all that are such are to be punished you only tell me that I dare not be impertinent And therefore I hope you will excuse me if I take no notice of the three Reasons you offer in your next Page for your saying so And yet if I had had a mind to talk impertinently I know not why I might not have dared to do so as well as other Men. There is one thing more in this Paragraph which though nothing more pertinent than the rest I shall not wholly pass over It lies in these Words He that reads your Treatise with Attention will be more confirm'd in this Opinion viz. That I use want of Examination only for a Pretence to punish Dissenters c. when he shall find that you who are so earnest to have Men punish'd to bring them to consider and examine that so they may discover the Way of Salvation have not said one Word of considering searching and hearkning to the Scripture which had been as good a Rule for a Christian to have sent them to as to Reasons and Arguments proper to convince them of you know not what c. How this confirms that Opinion I do not see nor have you thought fit to instruct me But as to the thing it self viz. my not saying one Word of considering searching and hearkning to the Scripture whatever Advantage a captious Adversary may imagine he has in it I hope it will not seem strange to any indifferent and judicious Person who shall but consider that throughout my Treatise I speak of the true Religion only in general i. e. not as limited to any particular Dispensation or to the Times of the Scriptures but as reaching from the Fall of Adam to the End of the World and so comprehending the Times which preceded the Scriptures wherein yet God left not himself without Witness but furnished Mankind with sufficient Means of knowing Him and his Will in order to their eternal Salvation For I appeal to all Men of Art whether speaking of the True Religion under this Generality I could be allowed to descend to any such Rules of it as belong only to some particular Times or Dispensations such as you cannot but acknowledg the Old and New Testaments to be In this your Answer you say the Subject of our Inquiry is only what Method is to be used to bring Men to the true Religion He that reads what you say again and again That the Magistrate is impower'd and obliged to procure as much as in him lies i. e. as far as by Penalties it can be procured that NO MAN neglect his Soul and shall remember how many Pages you imploy A. p 6 c. And here p. 6 c. to shew that it is the Corruption of humane Nature which hinders Men from doing what they may and ought for the Salvation of their Souls and that therefore Penalties no other means being left and Force were necessary to be used by the Magistrate to remove these great Obstacles of Lâ—…sts and Corruptions that none of his Subjects might remain ignorant of the way of Salvation or refuse to imbrace it One would think your Inquiry had been after the means of CVRING MENS Aversion to the true Religion which you tell us p. 53. if not cured is certainly destructive of Mens Eternal Salvation that so they might heartily imbrace it for their Salvation But here you tell us your Inquiry is only what Method is to be used to bring Men to the true Religion whereby you evidently mean nothing but outward Conformity to that which you think the true Church as appears by the next following Words Now if this be the only thing we were inquiring after then every one sees that in speaking to this Point I had nothing to do with any who have already imbraced the true Religion And also every one sees that since amongst those with whom having already imbraced the true Religion you and your Penalties have nothing to do there are those who have not considered and examined Matters of Religion as they ought whose Lusts and corrupt Natures keep them as far alienated from believing and as averse to a real obeying the Truth that must save them as any other Men it is manifest that imbracing the true Religion in your Sense is only imbracing the outward Profession of it which is nothing but outward Conformity And that being the furthest you would have your Penalties pursue Men and there leave them with as much of their Ignorance of the Truth and Carelesness of their Souls as they please who can deny but that it would be impertinent in you to consider how want of impartial Examination or Aversion to the true Religion should in them be cured because they are none of those Subjects of the Commonwealth whose spiritual and eternal Interests are by political Government to be procured or advanced none of those Subjects whose Salvation the Magistrate is to take Care of And therefore I excuse you as you desire for not taking notice of my three Reasons but whether the Reader will do so or no is more than I can undertake I hope you too will excuse me for having used so harsh a Word as
prevaricate and impute it to my want of Skill in the English Tongue But when I find a Man pretend to a great Concern for the Salvation of Mens Souls and make it one of the great Ends of Civil Government that the Magistrate should make use of Force to bring all his Subjects to consider study and examine believe and imbrace the Truth that must save them when I shall have to do with a Man who to this Purpose hath writ two Books to find out and desend the proper Remedies for that general Backwardness and Aversion which depraved humane Nature keeps Men in to an impartial Search after and hearty imbracing the true Religion and who talks of nothing less than Obligations on Soveraigns both from their particular Duty as well as from common Charity to take Care that none of their Subjects should want the Assistance of this only means left for their Salvation nay who has made it so necessary to Mens Salvation that he talks as if the Wisdom and Goodness of God would be brought in Question if those who needed it should be destitute of it and yet notwithstanding all this Shew of Concern for Mens Salvation contrives the Application of this sole Remedy so that a great many who lie under the Disease should be out of the Reach and Benefit of his Cure and never have this only Remedy applied to them When this I say is so manifestly in his Thoughts all the while that he is forced to confess that though Want or Neglect of Examination be a general Fault yet the Method he proposes for curing it does not reach to all that are guilty of it but frankly owns that he was not concerned to shew how the Neglect of Examination might be cured in those who conform but only in those who by reason of it reject the true Religion duly proposed to them which rejecting the true Religion will require a Man of Art to shew to be here any thing but Nonconformity to the National Religion When I say I meet with a Man another time that does this who is so much a Man of Art as to talk of all and mean but some talk of hearty imbracing the true Religion and mean nothing but Conformity to the National pretend one thing and mean another if you please to tell me what Name I shall give it I shall not fail for who knows how soon again I may have an occasion sor it If I would punish Men for Nonconformity without owning of it I could not use a better Pretence than to say it was to make them hearken to Reasons and Arguments proper to convince them or to make them submit to the Instruction and Government of the proper Ministers of Religion without any thing else supposing still at the bottom the Arguments for and the Ministers of my Religion to be these that till they outwardly complied with they were to be punished But if instead of outward Conformity to my Religion covered under these indesinite terms I should tell them they were to examine the Scripture which was the sixed Rule for them and me not examining could not give me a Pretence to punish them unless I would also punish Conformists as ignorant and unversed in the Scripture as they which would not do my Business But what need I use Arguments to shew that your punishing to make Men examine is designed only against Dissenters when in your Answer to this very Paragraph of mine you in plain Words acknowledg that though want of Examination be a general Fault yet the Method you propose for curing does not reach to all that are guilty of it To which if you please to add what you tell us That when Dissenters conform the Magistrate cannot know and therefore never examins whether they do it upon Reason and Conviction or no though it be certain that upon conforming Penalties the necessary Means cease it will be obvious that whatever be talked Conformity is all that is aimed at and that want of Examination is but the Pretence to punish Dissenters And this I told you any one must be convinced of who observes that you who are so earnest to have Men punished to bring them to consider and examine that so they may discover the way of Salvation have not said one Word of considering searching and hearkning to the Scripture which you were told was as good a Rule for a Christian to have sent Men to as to the Instruction and Government of the proper Ministers of Religion or to the Information of those who tell them they have mistaken ' their way and offer to shew them the right For this pâ—…ssing by the Scripture you give us this Reason that throughout your Treaâ—…se you speak of the true Religion only in general i. e. not as limited to any particular Dispensation or to the times of the Scriptures but as reaching from the Fall of Adam to the End of the World c. And then you appeal to all Men of Art whether speaking of the true Religion under this Generality you could be allowed to descend to any such Rules of it as belong only to some particular Times or Dispensations such as I cannot but acknowledg the Old and New Testaments to be The Author that you write against making it his Business as no body can doubt who reads but the first Page of his Letter to shew that it is the Duty of Christians to tolerate both Christians and others who differ from them in Religion 't is pretty strange in asserting against him that the Magistrate might and ought to use Force to bring Men to the true Religion you should mean any other Magistrate than the Christian Magistrate or any other Religion than the Christian Religion But it seems you took so little notice of the Design of your Adversary which was to prove that Christians were not to use Force to bring any one to the true Christian Religion that you would prove that Christians now were to use Force not only to bring Men to the Christian but also to the Jewish Religion or that of the true Church before the Law or to some true Religion so general that it is none of these For say you throughout your Treatise you speak of the true Religion only in general i. e. not as limited to any particular Dispensation Though one that were not a Man of Art would suspect you to be of another Mind your self when you told us the shuting out of the Jews from the Rights of the Common-wealth is a just and necessary Caution in a Christian Commonwealth which you say to justify your Exception in the beginning of your A against the Largeness of the Author's Toleration who would not have Jews excluded But speak of the true Religion only in general as much as you please if your true Religion be that by which Men must be saved can you send a Man to any better Guide to that true Religion now than the
understand me to say that he sins in doing it and lays himself open to divine Vengeance by it And can he be encouraged to this by hearing what others may gain by what without Repentance must cost him so dear Here your Men of Art will do well to be at hand again For it may be seasonable for you to appeal to them whether the nature of your Discourse will allow you to descend to shew ` the Magistrate the bounds of his Authority and warn him of ` the Injury he does if he misapplies his Power You say the Question there debated is Whether the Magistrate has any Right or Authority to use Force for promoting the True Religion which plainly supposes the Vnlawfulness and Injustice of using Force to promote a 〈◊〉 Religion as granted on both sides Neither is that the Question in debate nor if it were does it suppose what you pretend But the Question in debate is as you put it Whether any body has a Right to use Force in Matters of Religion You say indeed The Magistrate has to bring Men to the True Religion If thereupon you think the Magistrate has none to bring Men to a false Religion whatever your Men of Art may think 't is probable other Men would not have thought it to have been besides the nature of your Discourse to have warn'd the Magistrate that he should consider well and impartially examine the Grounds of his Religion before he use any Force to bring Men to it This is of such moment to Mens temporal and eternal Interests that it might well deserve some particular 〈◊〉 addressed to the Magistrate who might as much need to be put in mind of impartial Examination as other People And it might whatever your Men of Art may allow be justly expected from you who think it no Derivation from the Rules of Art to tell the Subjects that they must submit to the Penalties laid on them or else fall under the Sword of the Magistrate which how true soever will hardly by any body be sound to be much more to your purpose in this Discourse than it would have been to have told the Magistrate of what ill consequence it would be to him and his People if he misused his Power and warn'd him to be cautious in the Use of it But not a word that way Nay even where you mention the account he shall give for so doing it is still to satisfy the Subjects that they are well provided for and not left unfurnish'd of the Means of Salvation by the right God has put into the Magistrate's hands to use his Power to bring them to the True Religion and therefore they ought to be well content because if the Magistrate misapply it the Great Judg will punish him for it Look Sir and see whether what you say any where of the Magistrate's misuse of his Power have any other Tendency And then I appeal to the sober Reader whether if you had been as much concern'd for the Bounding as for the Exercise of Force in the Magistrates hands you would not have spoke of it 〈◊〉 another manner The next thing you say is that the Question being Whether the Magistrate has any Right to use Force to bring Men to the True Religion supposes the Vnlawfulness of using Force to promote a False Religion as granted on both sides which is so far from true that I suppose quite the contrary viz. That if the Magistrate has a Right to use Force to promote the True he must have a Right to use Force to promote his own Religion and that for Reasons I have given you elsewhere But the Supposition of a Supposition serves to excuse you from speaking any thing directly of setting Bounds to the Magistrate's Power or telling him his Duty in that point though you are very frequent in mentioning the Obligation he is under that Men should not want the Assistance of his Force and how answerable he is if any body miscarry for want of it though there be not the least Whisper of any care to be taken that no body be 〈◊〉 by it And now I recollect my self I think your Method would not allow it For if you should have put the Magistrate upon Examining it would have suppos'd him as liable to Error as other Men whereas to secure the Magistrate's acting right upon your Foundation of never using Force but for the True Religion I see no help for it but either he or you who are to licence him must be got past the State of Examination into that of certain Knowledg and Infallibility Indeed as you say you tell the Magistrate that the Power you ascribe to him in reference to Religion is given him to bring Men not to his own but to the True Religion But do you put him upon a severe and impartial Examination Which amongst the many False is the one only True Religion he must use Force to bring his Subjects to that he may not mistake and misapply his Power in a Business of that Consequence Not a Syllable of this Do you then tell him which it is he must take without Examination and promote with Force whether that of England France or Denmark This methinks is as much as the Pope with all his Infallibility could require of Princes And yet what is it less than this you do when you suppose the Religion of the Church of England to be the only True and upon this your Supposition tell the Magistrate it is his Duty by Force to bring Men to it without ever putting him upon Examining or suffering him or any body else to question whether it be the only True Religion or no For if you will stick to what you in another place say That it is enough to suppose that there is one True Religion and but one and that that Religion may be known by those who profess it What Authority will this Knowableness of the True Religion give to the King of England more than to the King of France to use Force if he does not actually know the Religion he professes to be the True or to the Magistrate more than the Subject if he has not examin'd the Grounds of his Religion But if He believes you when you tell him your Religion is the True all is well he has Authority enough to use Force and he need not examine any farther If this were not the case why you should not be careful to prepare a little Advice to make the Magistrate examine as well as you are sollicitous to provide Force to make the Subject examine will require the Skill of a Man of Art to discover Whether you are not of the Number of those Men I there mention'd for that there have been such Men in the World Instances might be given one may doubt srom your Principles For if upon a Supposition that yours is the True Religion you can give Authority to the Magistrate to 〈◊〉 Penalties on all his Subjects that
dissent from the Communion of the National Church without examining whether theirs too may not be that only True Religion which is necessary to Salvation Is not this to demand that the Magistrate's Power should be applied only in favour of a Party And can any one avoid being confirm'd in this Suspicion when he reads that broad Insinuation of yours P. 34. as if Our Magistrates were not concern'd for Truth 〈◊〉 Piety because they granted a Relaxation of those Penalties which you would have imploid in favour of your Party For so it must be call'd and not the Church of God exclusive of others unless you will say Men cannot be saved out of the Communion of your particular Church let it be National where you please You do not you say encourage the Magistrate to misapply his Power because in the very same Breath you tell him he misapplies his Power I answer Let all Men understand you as much as you please to say that he sins in doing it That will not excuse you from encouraging him there unless it be impossible that a Man may be encourag'd to Sin If your telling the Magistrate that his Subjects gain by his misapplying of Force be not an Encouragement to him to misapply it the doing good to others must cease to be an Encouragement to any Action And whether it be not a great Encouragement in this case to the Magistrate to go on in the use of 〈◊〉 without impartially examining whether his or his Subjects be the True Religion when he is told that be his Religion true or false his Subjects who suffer will be sure to be Gainers by it let any one judg For the Encouragement is not as you put it to the Magistrate to use Force to bring Men to what he thinks a false Religion but it is an Encouragement to the Magistrate who presumes his to be the True Religion to punish his Dissenting Subjects without due and impartial Examination on which side the Truth lies For having never told the Magistrate that neglect of Examination is a Sin in him if you should tell him a thousand times that he who uses his Power to bring Men to a False Religion misapplies it he would not understand by it that he sinn'd whilst he thought his the True and so it would be no restraint to the misapplying his Power And thus we have some Prospect of this admirable Machin you have 〈◊〉 up for the Salvation of Souls The Magistrate is to use Force to bring Men to the True Religion But what if he misapplies it to bring Men to a False Religion 'T is well still for his Subjects They are Gainers by it But this may encourage him to a Misapplication of it No You tell him that he that uses it to bring Men to a False Religion misapplies it And therefore he cannot but understand that you say he sins and lays himself open to Divine Vengeance No He believes himself in the right and thinks as St. Paul whilst a Persecutor that he does God good Service And you assure him here he makes his suffering Subjects Gainers and so he goes on as comfortably as St. Paul did Is there no Remedy for this Yes a very ready one and that is that the one only True Religion may be known by those who profess it to be the only True Religion To which if we add how you moderate as well as direct the Magistrate's Hand in punishing by making the last Regulation of your convenient Penalties to lie in the Prudence and Experience of Magistrates themselves we shall find the Advantages of your Method For are not your necessary Means of Salvation which lie in moderate Penalties used to bring Men to the True Religion brought to an happy State when that which is to guide the Magistrate in the Knowledg of the True Religion is that the True Religion may be known by those who profess it to be the only True Religion and the convenient Penalties to be used for the promoting of it are such as the Magistrate shall in his Prudence think fit and that whether the Magistrate applies it right or wrong the Subject will be a Gainer by it If in either of your Discourses you have given the Magistrate any better Direction than this to know the True Religion by which he is by Force to promote or any other intelligible Measure to moderate his Penalties by or any other Caution to restrain the misuse of his Power I desire you to shew it me And then I shall think I have reason to believe that in this Debate you have had more Care of the True Religion and the Salvation of Souls than to encourage the Magistrate to use the Power he has by your Direction and without Examination and to what degree he shall think sit in favour of a Party For the Matter thus stated if I mistake not will serve any Magistrate to use any degree of Force against any that dissent from his National Religion Having recommended to the Subjects the Magistrate's 〈◊〉 by a shew of Gain which will accrue to them by it you do well to bring in the Example of Julian who whatever he did to the Christians would no more than you own that it was Persecution but for their Advantage in the other World But whether his pretending Gain to them upon Grounds which he did not believe or your pretending Gain to them which no body can believe to be one be a greater Mockery you were best look This seems reasonable That his talk of Philanthropy and yours of Moderation should be bound up together For till you speak and tell them plainly what they may trust to the Advantage the Persecuted are to receive from your Clemency may I imagine make a second Part to what the Christians of that Age 〈◊〉 from his But you are solicitous for the Salvation of Souls and Dissenters shall find the Benefit of it CHAP. IX Of the Vsefulness of Force in Matters of Religion YOU having granted that in all Pleas for any thing because of its Usefulness it is not enough to say that it may be serviceable but it must be considered not only what it may but what it is likely to produce and the greater Good or Harm likely to come from it ought to determine the use of it I think there need nothing more to be said to shew the Uselesness of Force in the Magistrate's Hands for promoting the true Religion after it has been proved that if any then all Magistrates who believe their Religion to be true are under an Obligation to use it But since the usefulness and necessity of Force is the main Foundation on which you build your Hypothesis we will in the two remaining Chapters examine particularly what you say for them To the Author 's saying That Truth seldom hath received and he fears never will receive much assistance from the Power of Great Men to whom she is but rarely known and more rarely welcome You
answer And yet God himself foretold and promised that Kings should be Nursing Fathers and Queens Nursing Mothers to his Church If we may judg of this Prophecy by what is past or present we shall have reason to think it concerns not our Days or if it does that God intended not that the Church should have many such Nursing Fathers and Nursing Mothers that were to nurse them up with moderate Penalties if those were to be the Swadling-Clouts of this Nursery Perhaps if you read that Chapter you will think you have little reason to build much on this Promise till the restoring of Israel And when you see the Gentiles bring Thy i. e. 〈◊〉 the stile of the Chapter seems to import the Sons of the Israelites Sons in their Arms and thy Daughters be carried upon their Shoulders as is promised in the immediately preceding Words you may conclude that then Kings shall be thy i. e. Israels Nursing Fathers and Queens thy Nursing Mothers This seems to me to be the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by that Prophecy and I guess to a great many others upon an attentive reading that Chapter in Isaiah And to all such this Text will do you little Service till you make out the meaning of it better than by barely quoting of it which will scarce ever prove that God hath promised that so many Princes shall be Friends to the true Religion that it will be better for the true Religion that Princes should use Force for the imposing or propagating of their Religions than not For unless it prove that it answers not the Author's Argument as an indifferent Reader must needs see For he says not Truth never but she seldom 〈◊〉 received and he fears never will receive not any but much assistance from the Power of Great Men to whom she is BVT RARELY KNOWN and more RARELY WELCOME And therefore to this of Isaiah pray join that of St. Paul to the Corinthians Not many wise not many mighty not many noble But supposing many Kings were to be Nursing Fathers to the Church and that this Prophecy were to be fulfilled in this Age and the Church were now to be their Nursery 'T is I think more proper to understand this figurative Promise that their Pains and Discipline was to be imploy'd on these in the Church and that they should feed and cherish them rather than that these Words meant that they should whip those that were out of it And therefore this Text will I suppose upon a just consideration of it signify very little against the known matter of Fact which the Author urges Unless you can find a Country where the Cudgel and the Scourge are more the Badges and Instruments of a good Nurse than the Breast and the 〈◊〉 and that she is counted a good Nurse of her own Child who 〈◊〉 her self in whiping Children not hers 〈◊〉 belonging to her Nursery The 〈◊〉 which give you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to hope for any advantage from the Authors Toleration which almost all but the Church of England injoy'd in the Times of the Blessed Reformation as it was called you tell us were Sects and Heresies Here your Zeal hangs a little in your Light It is not the Author's Toleration which here you accuse That you know is universal And the universality of it is that which a little before you wondred at and complained of Had it been the Author's Toleration it could not have been almost all but the Church of England but it had been the Church of England and all others But let us take it that Sects and 〈◊〉 were or will be the Fruits of a free Toleration i. e. 〈◊〉 are divided in their opinions and ways of Worship Differences in ways of Worship wherein there is nothing mixed inconsistent with the true Religion will not hinder Men from Salvation who sincerely follow the best Light they have which they are as likely to do under Toleration as Force And as for 〈◊〉 of Opinions speculative Opinions in Religion I think I may safely say that there are 〈◊〉 any where three considering Men for 't is want of Consideration you would punish who are in their Opinions throughout of the same Mind Thus far then if Charity be preserved which it is likelier to be where there is Toleration than where there is Persecution though without Uniformity I see no great reason to complain of those ill Fruits of Toleration But Men will run as they did in the late Times into dangerous and destructive Errors and extravagant ways of Worship As to Errors in Opinion If Men upon Toleration be so apt to vary in Opinions and run so wide one from another 't is evident they are not so averse to thinking as you complain For 't is hard for Men not under Force to quit one Opinion and imbrace another without thinking of them But if there be danger of that It is most likely the National Religion should sweep and draw to its self the loose and unthinking part of Men who without Thought as well as without any contest with their corrupt Nature may imbrace the Profession of the countenanced Religion and join in outward Communion with the great and ruling Men of the Nation For he that troubles not his Head at all about Religion what other can so well suit 〈◊〉 as the National with which the Cry and Preferments go And where it being as you say presumable that he makes that his Profession upon Conviction and that he is in earnest he is sure to be Orthodox without the pains of examining and has the Law and Government on his side to make it good that he is in the right But Seducers if they be tolerated will be ready at hand and diligent and Men will hearken to them Seducers surely have no Force on their side to make People hearken And if this be so there is a Remedy at hand 〈◊〉 than Force if you and your Friends will use it which cannot but prevail And that is let the Ministers of Truth be as diligent And they bringing Truth with them Truth obvious and easy to be understand as you say what is necessary to Salvation is cannot but prevail But Seducers are hearken'd to because they teach Opinions favourable to Mens Lusts. Let the Magistrate as is his Duty hinder the Practises which their Lusts would carry them to and the Advantage will be still on the side of Truth After all Sir If as the Apostle tells the Corinthians 1 Cor. 12. 19. There must be Heresies amongst you that they which are approved may be made manifest which I beseech you is best for the Salvation of Mens Souls that they should enquire hear examine consider and then have the Liberty to profess what they are perswaded of or that having consider'd they should be forced not to own nor follow their Perswasions or else that being of the National Religion they should go ignorantly on without any Consideration at all In one case if your Penalties
to the first and second Letter concerning Toleration than is for the Advantage of your Cause when you impute to them the Increase of Sects and Heresies amongst us And there are some even of the Church of England have professed themselves so fully satisfied by the Reasons and Arguments in the first of them that though I dare not be positive to you whose Privilege it is to convince Men that they are convinced yet I may say 't is as presumable they are convinced having owned it as it is presumable that all that are Conformists are made so upon Reason and Conviction This I suppose may serve for an Answer to your next words That God in his just Judgment will send such as receive not the Love of Truth that they may be saved but reject it for the Pleasure they have in Vnrighteousness 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 strong Delusion i. e. such Reasons and Arguments as will prevail with Men so disposed to believe a Lie that they may be damn'd This you confess the Scripture plainly teaches us But that there are any such Reasons or Arguments as are proper and sufficient to convince or satisfy any but such resolute and obdurate Sinners of the Truth of such Falshood as will destroy them is a Position which you are sure the Scripture doth not 〈◊〉 us and which you tell me when I have better considered it you hope I will not undertake to maintain And yet if it be not maintainable what I say here is to no purpose For if there be no such Reasons and Arguments as here we speak of 't is in vain to talk of the Magistrate's using Force to make Men consider them But if you are still of the mind that no Magistrate but those who are of the True Religion can have Arguments back'd with Force proper and sufficient to convince and that in England none but resolute obdurate Sinners ever forsook or forbore the Communion of the Church of England upon Reasons and Arguments that satisfy or convince them I shall leave you to enjoy so charitable an Opinion But as to the Usefulness of Force your way applied I shall lay you down again the same Argument I used before though in Words less sitted for your Way of Reasoning on them now I know your Talent If there be any Efficacy in Force to bring Men to any Perswasion it will your Way apply'd bring more Men to Error than to Truth Your Way of using it is only to punish Men for not being of the National Religion which is the only Way you do or can apply Force without a Toleration Nonconformity is the Fault that is punish'd which Fault when it ceases the Punishment ceases But yet to make them consider is the end for which they are punish'd but whether it be or be not intended to make Men consider it alters nothing in the case Now I say that since all Magistrates who believe their Religion to be true are as much obliged to use Force to bring their Subjects to it as if it were true and since most of the National Religions of the World are erroneous if Force made use of to bring Men to the National Religion by punishing Dissenters have any Efficacy let it be what it will indirect and at a distance if you please it is like to do twenty times more harm than good because of the National Religions of the World to speak much within compass there are above 20 wrong for one that is right Indeed could Force be directed to drive all Men indifferently who are negligent and backward in it to study examine and consider seriously Matters of Religion and search out the Truth And if Men were upon their Study and Examination permitted to follow what appears to them to be right you might have some pretence for Force as serviceable to Truth in making Men consider But this is impossible but under a Toleration And I doubt whether even there Force can be so apply'd as to make Men consider and impartially examine what is true in the professed Religions of the World and to imbrace it This at least is certain that where Punishments pursue Men like outlying Deer only to the Pale of the National Church and when once they are within that leaves them free there and at ease it can do no Service to the True Religion even in a Country where the National is the true For the Penalties ceasing as soon as Men are got within the Pale and Communion of the Church they help not Men at all against that which you assign as the great Hindrance to the True Religion and which therefore in your Opinion makes Force necessary to assist it For there being no necessity that Men should leave either their Vices or Corruption or so much as their Ignorance to get within the Pale of the Church Force your way apply'd serves only to bring them even in the few Christian and Orthodox Countries to the Profession not to the Knowledg Belief or Practice of the True Religion You say corrupt Nature inclines Men from the True Religion to false ones and moderate Force is requisite to make such Men consider But such Men as out of corrupt Nature and for their Ease and carnal Pleasures chuse an erroneous Religion without considering will again as soon as they can find their Choice incommoded by those Penalties consult the same corrupt Nature and carnal Appetites and without considering any thing further conform to that Religion where they can best enjoy themselves 'T is only the conscientious part of Dissenters such as dissent not out of Indulgence to corrupt Nature but out of Perswasion who will not conform without considering as they ought And therefore your Argument from corrupt Nature is out of doors If moderate Penalties serve only to work on those who are led by corrupt Nature they are of no use but to fill the Church with Hypocrites that is to make those Men worse Hypocrites than they were before by a new Act of Hypocrisy and to corrupt the Manners of the rest of the Church by their converse with these And whether this be for the Salvation of Souls as is pretended or for some other End that the Priests of all Religions have generally so earnestly contended for it I leave to be consider'd For as for those who dissent out of Perswasion I suspect your moderate Penalties will have little effect upon them For such Men being awed by the Fear of Hell-fire if that Fear will not make them consider better than they have done moderate Penalties will be too weak to work upon them 'T is well if Dragooning and Martyring can do it But you add May it not be true nevertheless that Force your way applied may be serviceable indirectly and at a distance to bring Men to imbrace the Truth which may save them which is all you are concerned here to make good So that if it may possibly happen that it should ever bring two Men to
make Men Cartesians or Conformists because it may indirectly and at a distance do some Service by being an Occasion to make some Men consider their mispending their time whereby it may happen that one may betake himself to the Study of Philosophy where he may meet with Arguments proper and fit to convince him of the Truth of that Philosophy as another betaking himself to the Study of Divinity may consider Arguments proper and fit to make him whether it be in England Holland or Denmark of the National Profession which he was not of before Just thus and no otherwise does 12 d. a Sunday or any other Penalty laid on Non-conformity make Men study and imbrace the True Religion and whatever you will call the Service it does direct or indirect near or at a distance 't is plain it produces that effect and conduces to that end meerly by accident and therefore must be allow'd to be impertinent to be used to that purpose That your Way of using Force in Matters of Religion even in a Country where the Magistrate's is of the True Religion is absolutely impertinent I shall further shew you from your own Positions Here in the entrance give me leave to observe to you that you confound two things very different viz. Your Way of applying Force and the End for which you pretend you use it And this perhaps may be it which contributes to cast that Mist about your Eyes that you always return to the same place and stick to the same gross Mistake For here you say Force your Way applied i. e. to bring Men to imbrace the Truth which must save them but Sir to bring Men to imbrace the Truth is not your Way of applying Force but the End for which you pretend it is apply'd Your Way is to punish Men as you say moderately for being Dissenters from the National Religion this is your Way of using Force Now if in this Way of using it Force does Service meerly by accident you will then I suppose allow it to be absolutely impertinent For you say If by doing Service by accident I mean doing it but seldom and beside the Intention of the Agent you assure me that it is not the thing you mean when you say Force may indirectly and at a distance do some Service For in that use of Force which you defend the Effect is both intended by him that uses it and withal you doubt not so often attain'd as abundantly to manifest the Vsefulness of it Whereby 't is plain the two Marks whereby you distinguish'd your indirect and at a distance Usefulness from that which is by accident are that that by accident does Service but seldom and besides the Intention of the Agent but yours the contrary First as to the Intention you tell us in the use of Force which you defend the Effect is intended by him that uses it that is those who made Laws to punish Nonconformists designed those Penalties to make all Men under their Power consider so as to be convinced of and imbrace the Truths that should save them If one should ask you how you knew it to be their Intention can you say they ever told you so If they did not then so far you and â—…know their â—…ions alike Did they ever say so in those Laws nor that neither Those vers'd then in the Interpretations of Laws will tell you nothing can be known to be the Intention of the Law-makers in any Law of which the Law is wholly silent That Way then you can not know it to have been their Intention if the Law says nothing of it Whatever was the Intention of former Law-makers if you had read with Attention the last Act of Uniformity of Car. 2. printed before the Common-Prayer Book I conclude you would have been better satisfied about the Intention of the then Law-makers in that Law sor I think nothing can be plainer to any one who will look into that Statute than that their only End in that Law was what they have expressed in these Words And to the end that Vniformity in the Publick Worship of God which is so much desired may be speedily effected which was driven with such speed that if all concern'd had opportunity to get and peruse the then establish'd Liturgy 't is certain they had not over-much time seriously and deliberately to consider of all the Parts of it before the Day set for the Use of it But you think they ought to have intended and therefore they did And I think they neither ought nor could in making those Laws intend so unpracticable a thing and therefore they did not Which being as certain a way of Knowledg as yours if you know it by that way 't is possible you and I may at the same time know contraries But you know it by their having provided sufficient means of Instruction for all under their Care in the true Religion of this sufficient Means we have something to say in another place Penalties laid expresly on one Fault have no Evidence that they were de-signed to mend another though there are sufficient Means provided of mending it if Men would make a sufficient use of them unless those two Faults are so connected as one cannot be mended without the other Now if Men cannot conform without so considering as to be convinced of and embrace the Truth that must save them you may know that Penalties laid on Nonconformity were intended to make Men so consider but if Men may conform without so considering one cannot know nor conclude those Penalties were intended to make Men so consider whatever Provision there is made of Means of Instruction But you will say it is evident that Penalties on Nonconformists were intended to make them use these Means of Instruction because they are intended for the bringing Men to Church the place of Instruction That they are intended to bring Men to Church the Place of Preaching that I grant but that those Penalties that are laid on Men for not coming to Church can be known thereby to be intended to make Men so consider as to be convinced and imbrace the true Religion that I deny and it is utterly impossible it should be so if what you say be true where you tell us That the Magistrates concern themselves for Compliance or Conformity only as the fruit of their Conviction If therefore the Magistrates are concerned for Mens Conformity only as the fruit of their Conviction and coming to Church be that Conformity coming to Church cannot be intended as a Means of their Conviction unless it be intended they should be convinc'd before they are convinc'd But to shew you that you cannot pretend the Penalty of Laws for Conformity to proceed from a Care of the Souls of all under the Magistrates Power and so to be intended to make them all consider in any Sense Can you or any one know or suppose that Penalties which are laid by the Law on
Nonconformity are intended to make all Men consider where 't is known that a great Number under the Magistrates Power are dispensed with and privileged from those Penalties How many omitting the Jews are there for example in the King of England's Dominions under his Care and Power of the Walloon and French Church to whom Force is never apply'd and they live in Security from it How many Pagans are there in the Plantations many whereof born in His Dominions of whom there was never any care taken that they should so much as come to Church or be in the least instructed in the Christian Religion And yet must we believe or can you pretend that the Magistrates use of Force against Nonconformists is to make all his Subjects consider so as to be convinc'd of and imbrace the Truth that must save them If you say in your way you mean no such Indulgence I answer the Question is not of yours but the Magistrates Intention though what your Intention is who would have the want of Consideration or Knowledg in Conformists exempt from Force is visible enough Again Those Penalties cannot be supposed to be intended to make Men consider which are laid on those who have or may have already considered And such you must grant to be the Penalties laid in England on Nonconformists unless you will deny that any Nonconformist has or can consider so as to be convinced or believe and imbrace the Truth that must save him So that you cannot vouch the Intention of the Magistrate where his Laws say nothing much less affirm that Force is intended to produce a certain end in all his Subjects which is not applied to them all and is applied to some who have attained that end already Unless you have a Privilege to affirm against all appearance whatsoever may serve your Cause But to learn some Moderation in this I shall send you to my Pagans and Mahumetans For whatever charitable wishes Magistrates may sometimes have in their Thoughts which I meddle not with no Body can say that in making the Laws or in the use of Force we are speaking of they intended to mâ—…ke Men consider and examine so as to be convinced of and heartily to imbrace the Truth that must save them but he that gives himself the Liberty to say any thing The Service that Force does indirectly and at a distance you tell us in the following Page is to make People apply thâ—…mselves to the use of those Means and Helps which are proper to make them what they are designed to be In the Case before us What are Men designed to be Holy Believers of the Gospel in this World without which no Salvation no seeing of God in the next Let us see now whether Force your way applied can be suted to such a Design and so intended for that End You hold That all out of the National Church where the Religion of the National Church is true should be punished and ought to have Force used to them And again you grant That those who are in the Communion of the National Church ought not to be punished or be under the stroke of Force nor indeed in your way can they If now the effect be to prevail with Men to consider as they ought so that they may become what they are designed to be How can any one think that you and they who use Force thus intend in the use of it that Men should really be Christians both in Perswasion and Practice without which there is no Salvation if they leave off Force before they have attained that effect Or how can it be imagined that they intend any thing but Conformity by their use of Force if they leave off the use of it as soon as Men conform Unless you will say that an outward Conformity to the National Church whose Religion is the true Religion is such an imbracing of the Truth as is sufficient to Salvation Or that an outward Profession of the Christian Religion is the same with being really a Christian which possibly you will not be very forward to do when you recollect what you meet with in the Sermons and Printed Discourses of Divines of the Church of England concerning the Ignorance and Irreligion of Conformists themselves For Penalties can never be thought by any one but he that can think against common Sense and what he pleases to be intended for any End which by that Constitution and Law whereby they are imposed are to cease before that End be attained And will you say that all who are conformable have so well considered that they believe and heartily imbrace the Truths of the Gospel that must save them When perhaps it will be found that a great many Conformists do not so much as understand them But the Ignorance or Irreligiousness to be found amongst Consormists which your way of talking forces me in some Places to take notice of let me here tell you once for all I lay not the blame of upon Conformity but upon your use of Force to make Men conform For whatever the Religion be true or false it is natural for Force and Penalty so applied to bring the irreligious and those who are careless and unconcerned for the true into the National Profession But whether it be fitter for such to be kept out rather than by Force to be driven into the Communion of any Church and owned as Members of it those who have a due Care and Respect for truly religious and pious Conformists were best consider But farther if as you say the opposition to the true Religion lies only in Mens Lusts it having Light and Strength enough were it not for that to prevail and it is upon that account only that Force is necessary there is no necessity at all to use Force on Men only till they conform and no farther Since I think you will not deny but that the Corruption of Humane Nature is as great in Consormists as in Nonconformists in the Professors of as in the Dissenters from the National Religion And therefore either Force was not necessary before or else it is necessary still after Men are Conformists Unless you will say that it is harder for a Man to be a Professor than a Christian indeed And that the true Religion by its own Light and Strength can without the help of Force prevail over a Man's Lusts and the Corruption of his Nature but it has need of the help of Force to make him a Conformist and an outward Professor And so much for the Effect which is intended by him that uses it in that use of Force which you defend The other Argument you bring to shew that your indirect and at a distance Vsefulness of Force your way apply'd is not by accident is the frequent Success of it Which I think is not the true Mark of what is not by accident for an Effect may not be by accident though it has never been produced but once
where you speak of such things as Any Way at any Time upon any Person by any Accident may be useful towards the promoting of True Religion If Men should thence take occasion to apply such things generally who seeâ—… not that however they might chance to hit right in some few Cases yet upon the whole matter they would certainly do a great deal more harm than good You and I know a Country wherein not long since greater Severities were used than you pretend to approve of Were there not for all that great Numbers of several Professions stood out who by your Rule ought now to have your moderate Penalties tried upon them And can you think less degrees of Force can work and often as you say prevail where greater could not But perhaps they might prevail on many of those to return who having been brought into the Communion of the Church by former Penal Laws have now upon the Relaxation left it again A manifest Demonstration â—…s it not That their Compliance was the fruit of their Conviction and that the Magistrate was concern'd for their Compliance only as the fruit of their Conviction When they as soon as any Relaxation of those Laws took off the Penalties left again the Communion of the National Church For the lessening the Number of Conformists is I suppose one of those things which you say your Eyes cannot but see at this time and which you with concern impute to the late Relaxation A plain Evidence how presumable it is even in your own Opinion that those who conform do it upon real Conviction To conclude these Proofs though I do not pretend to bring as good as the Thing will admit will serve my turn to shew that Force is impertinent since by your own Confession it has no direct Efficacy to convince Men and by its being indirect and at a distance useful is not at all distinguish'd from being barely so by accident since you can neither prove it to be intended for that end nor frequently to succeed which are the two Marks whereby you put a Difference between indirect and at a distance and by accident This I say is enough to shew what the Author said is true that the Use of Force is wholly impertinent Which whatever otherâ—… do you upon another reason must be forced to allow You profess your self of the Church of England and if I may guess are so far of it as to have subscrib'd the 39 Articles which if you have done and assented to what you subscribed you must necessarily allow that all Force used for the bringing Men to the True Religion is absolutely impertinent for that must be absolutely impertinent to be used as a Means which can contribute nothing at all to the End for which it is used The End here is to make a Man a true Christian that he may be saved and he is then and then only a true Christian and in the Way of Salvation when he believes and with Sincerity obeys the Gospel By the 13th Article of the Church of England you hold that WORKS DONE BEFORE THE GRACE OF CHRIST AND THE INSPIRATION OF HIS SPIRIT ARE NOT PLEASING TO GOD FOR AS MUCH AS THEY SPRING NOT OF FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST NEITHER DO THEY MAKE MEN MEET TO RECEIVE GRACE OR AS THE SCHOOL AUTHORS SAY DESERVE GRACE OF CONGRUITY YEA RATHER FOR THAT THEY ARE NOT DONE AS GOD HAS WILLED AND COMMANDED THEM TO BE DONE WE DOUBT NOT BUT THEY HAVE THE NATURE OF SIN Now if it be impertinent to use Force to make a Man do more than he can and a Man can do nothing to procure Grace unless Sin can procure it and without Grace a Man cannot bâ—…live or live so as to be a true Christian it is certainly wholly impertinent to use Force to bring a Man to be truly a Christian. To hear and consider is in Mens Power you will say and to that Force may be pertinent I grant to make Men hear but not to make them consider in your sense which you tell us is to consider so as to imbrace if you mean by imbracing any thing but outward Conformity And that according to your Article contributes nothing to the attaining of Grace because without Grace your Article says it is a Sin and to conform to and outwardly profess a Religion which a Man does not understand and heartily believe every one I think judges to be a Sin and no fit Means to procure the Grace of God But you tell us That God denies his Grace to none who seriously ask it If that be so methinks Force should most properly and pertinently be used to make Men seriously pray to God for Grace But how I beseech you will this stand with your 13th Article For if you mean by seriously so as will make his Seeking acceptable to God that cannot be because he is supposed yet to want Grace which alone can make it acceptable and if his Asking has the Nature of Sin as in the Article you do not doubt but it has can you expect that Sinning should procure the Grace of God You will I fear here without some great help in a very nice Distinction from the School-Authors be forced either to renounce your Article in the plain sense of it and so become a Dissenter from the Church of England or else acknowledg Force to be wholly impertinent to the business of True Religion and Salvation Another Reason I gave against the Vsefulness of Force in Matters of Religion was Because the Magistrates of the World being few of them in the Right-way not one of ten take which side you will perhaps not one of an hundred being of the True Religion 'T is likely your indirect Way of using Force would do an hundred or at least ten times as much Harm as Good To which you reply Which would have been to the purpose if you had asserted that every Magistrate may use Force your indirect Way or any Way to bring Men to his own Religion whatever that be But if you assert no such thing as no Man you think but an Atheist will assert it then this is quite beside the Business I think I have proved that if Magistrates of the True Religion may use Force to bring Men to their Religion every Magistrate may use Force to bring Men to his own Religion when he thinks it the True And then do you look where the Atheism will light In the next Paragraph having quoted these following Words of mine where I say Under another Pretence you put into the Magistrate's hands as much Power to force Men to his Religion as any the openest Persecutors can pretend to I ask what difference is there between punishing them to bring them to Mass and punishing them to bring them to consider those Reasons and Arguments which are proper and sufficient to convince them that they ought to go to Mass You reply A Question which you shall then think your self
but the 39 Articles the Liturgy and the Scripture and how either of them by it self or these altogether with a National Clergy make it plain that the Penalties laid on Nonconformity are intended to make Men consider study and impartially examine Matters of Religion you would do well to shew For Magistrates usually know and therefore make their Laws accordingly that the People seldom carry either their Interpretation or Practice beyond what the express Letter of the Law requires of them You would do well also to shew that a sufficient provision of means of Instruction cannot but be understood to require an effectual Use of them which the Law that makes that provision says nothing of But on the contrary contents it self with something very short of it For Conformity or Coming to Church is at least as far from considering studying and impartially examining Matters of Religion so as to imbrace the Truth upon Conviction and with an obedient Heart as being present at a Discourse concerning Mathematicks and studying Mathematicks so as to become a knowing Mathematician are different one from the other People generally think they have done their Duties abundantly if they have been at Church whether they mind any thing done there or no this they call serving of God as if it were their whole Duty so backward are they to understand more though it be plain the Law of God expresly requires more But that they have fully satisfied the Law of the Land no body doubts nor is it easy to answer what was are ply'd to me on this occasion viz. If the Magistrate intended any thing more in those Laws but Consormity would he not have said it To which 〈◊〉 me add if the Magistrate intended Conformity as the fruit of Conviction would he not have taken some care to have them instructed before they conformed and examin'd when they did but 't is presumable their Ignorance Corruption and Lusts all drop off in the Church-porch and that they become perfectly good Christians as soon as they have taken 〈◊〉 Seats in the Church If there be any whom your Example or Writing hath inspir'd with Aâ—…uteness enough to sind out this I suspect the Vulgar who have scarce time and thought enough to make Inferences from the Law which scarce one or ten of them ever so much as reads or perhaps underâ—…ands when read are still and will be ignorant of it And those who have the Time and Abilities to argue about it will find reason to think that those Penalties were not intended to mâ—…ke Men examine the Doctrine and Ceremonies of Religion since those who should examine are prohibited by those very Laws to follow their own Judgments which is the very End and Use of Examination if they at all differ from the Religion establish'd by Law Nor can it appear so plain to all concern'd that the Punishment is intended to make them consider and examine when they see the Punishments you say are to make People consider spare those who consider and examine Matters of Religion as little as any of the most ignorant and careless Dissenters To my saying Some Dissenters may have consider'd already and then Force imploid upon them must needs be useless unless you can think it useful to punish a Man to make him do that which he has done already You reply No Man who rejects Truth necessary to his Salvation has consider'd already as he ought to consider The words as he ought are not as I take it in the Question and so your Answer is No Man who rejects the Truth necessary to his Salvation hath consider'd study'd or examin'd Matters of Religion But we will let that go and yet with that allowance your Answer will be nothing to the purpose unless you will dare to say that all Dissenters reject Truth necessary to Salvation For without that Supposition that all Dissenters reject Truth necessary to Salvation the Argument and Answer will stand thus It may be useless to punish all Dissenters to make them consider because some of them may have consider'd already To which the Answer is Yes some of them may have consider'd already but those who reject Truth necessary to their Salvation have not consider'd as they ought I said The greatest part of Mankind being not able to discern betwixt Truth and Falshood that depends upon long and many Proofs and remote Consequences nor haâ—…ing Ability enough to discover the false Grounds and resist the captious and fallacious Arguments of Learned Men versed in Controversies are so much more expos'd by the Force which is used to make them hearken to the Information and Instruction of Men appointed to it by the Magistrate or those of his Religion to be led into Falshood and Error than they are likely this way to be brought to imbrace the Truth which must save them by how much the National Religions of the World are beyond comparison more of them false or erroneous than such as have God for their Author and Truth for their Standard You reply If the first part of this be true then an infallible Guide and implicit Faith are more necessary than ever you thought them Whether you conclude from thence or no that then there will be a necessity of an infallible Guide and an implicit Faith 't is nevertheless true that the greatest part of Men are unable to discern as I said between Truth and Falshood depending upon long and many Proofs c. But whether that will make an infallible Guide necessary or no Imposition in Matters of Religion certainly will since there can be nothing more absur'd imaginable than that a Man should take upon him to impose on others in Matters of their Eternal Concernment without being or so much as pretending to be infallible For colour it with the name of Considering as much as you please as long as it is to make Men consider as they ought and considering as they ought is so to consider as to imbrace the using of Force to make Men consider and the using of Force to make them imbrace any Doctrine or Opinion is the same thing and to shew a difference betwixt imposing an Opinion and using Force to make it be imbrac'd would require such a piece of Subtilty as I heard lately from a Learned Man out of the Pulpit who told us that though two things he named were all one yet for Distinction's sake he would divide them Your Reason for the necessity of an infallible Guide is For if the greatest part of Mankind be not able to discern betwixt Truth and Falshood in Matters concerning their Salvation as I must mean if I speak to the purpose their Condition must needs be very hazardous if they have not some Guide or Judg to whose Determination and Direction they may securely resign themselves And therefore they must resign themselves to the Determination and Direction of the Civil Magistrate or be punish'd Here 't is like you will have something again
Men use consideration which is a means not necessary to that but another end viz. finding out and imbracing the one true Religion For however consideration may be a necessary means to find and imbrace the one true Religion it is not at all a necessary means to outward Conformity in the Communion of any Religion To manifest the consistency and practicableness of your Method to the Question what advantage would it be to the true Religion if Magistrates did every where so punish You answer That by the Magistrates punishing if I speak to the purpose I must mean their punishing Men for rejecting the true Religiâ—…n so tender'd to them as has been said in order to the bringing them to consider and imbrace it Now before we can suppose Magistrates every where so to punish we must suppose the true Religion to be every where the National Religion And if this were the case you think it is evident â—…nough what advantage to the true Religion it would be if Magistrates every where did so punish For then we might reasonably hope â—…hat all fâ—…lse Religions would soon vanish and the true become onâ—… more the only Religion in the World Whereas if Magistrates should not so punish it were much to be fear'd especially considering what has already happen'd that on the contrary false Religions and Atheism as more agreeable to the Soil would daily take deeper Root and propagate themselves till there were no room left for the true Religion which is but a foreign Plant in any Corner of the World If you can make it practicable that the Magistrate should punish Men for rejecting the True Religion without judging which is the True Religion or if True Religion could appear in Person take the Magistrate's Seat and there judg all that rejected her something might be done But the mischief of it is it is a Man that must condemn Men must punish and Men cannot do this but by judging who is guilty of the Crime which they punish An Oracle or an Interpreter of the Law of Nature who speaks as clearly tells the Magistrate he may and ought to punish those who reject the True Religion tender'd with sufficient Evidence The Magistrate is satisfied of his Authority and believes this Commission to be good Now I would know how possibly he can execute it without making himself the Judg 1. What is the True Religion unless the Law of Nature at the same time deliver'd into his Hands the 39 Articles of the One only True Religion and another Book wherein all the Ceremonies and outward Worship of it are contain'd But it being certain that the Law of Nature has not done this and as certain that the Articles Ceremonies and Discipline of this One only True Religion have been often varied in several Ages and Countries since the Magistrate's Commission by the Law of Nature was first given there is no Remedy left but that the Magistrate must judg what is the True Religion if he must punish them who reject it Suppose the Magistrate be commission'd to punish those who depart from right Reason the Magistrate can yet never punish any one unless he be Judg what is right Reason and then judging that Murder Theft Adultery Narrow Cart-Wheels or want of Bows and Arrows in a Man's House are against right Reason he may make Laws to punish Men guilty of those as 〈◊〉 right Reason So if the Magistrate in England or France having a Commission to punish those who reject the One only True Religion judges the Religion of his National Church to be it 't is possible for him to lay Penalties on those who reject it pursuant to that Commission otherwise without judging that to be the One only True Religion 't is wholly impracticable for him to punish those who imbrace it not as Rejecters of the One only True Religion To provide as good a Salvo as the thing will bear you say in thâ—… folâ—…wing words Before we can suppose Magistrates every where so to punish we must suppose the True Religion to be every where the National That is true of actual Punishment but not of laying on Penalties by Law for that would be to suppose the National Religion makes or chuses the Magistrate and not the Magistrate the National Religion But we see the contrary for let the National Religion be what it will before the Magistrate doth not always fall into it and imbrace that but if he thinks not that but some other the True the first Opportunity he has he changes the National Religion into that which he judges the True and then punishes the Dissenters from it where his Judgment which is the True Religion always necessarily precedes and is that which ultimately does and must determine who are Rejecters of the True Religion and so obnoxiâ—…us to Punishment This being so I would gladly see how your Methâ—…d can be any way practicable to the advantage of the True Religion whereof the Magistrate every-where must be Judg or else he can punish no body at all You tell me that whereas I say that to justify Punishment it is requisite that it be directly useful for the procuâ—…ing some 〈◊〉 Good than that which it takes away you wish I had told you why it must needs be directly useful for that purpose However exact you may be in demanding Reasons of what is said I thought here you had no cause to complain but you let slip out of your Memory the foregoing words of this Passage which together stands thus Punishment is some Evil some Inconvenience some Suffering by taking away or abridging some good thing which he who is punish'd haâ—… otherwise a Right to Now to justify the bringing any such Evil upon any Man two Things are requisite 1. That he that does it has a Commission so to do 2. That it be directly useful for the promoting some greater Good 'T is evident by these Words that Punishment brings direct Evil upon a Man and therefore it should not be used but where it is directly useful for the procuring some greater Good In this case the signification of the Word directly carries a manifest Reason in it to any one who understands what directly means If the taking away any Good from a Man cannot be justified but by making it a Means to procure a greater is it not plain it must be so a Means as to have in the Operation of Causes and Effects a natural Tendency to that Effect and then it is called directly useful to such an end And this may give you a reason why Punishment must be directly useful for that purpose I know you are very tender of your indirect and at a distance Usefulness of Force which I have in another place shew'd to be in your way only useful by accident nor will the Question you here subjoin excuse it from being so viz. Why 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not as directly useful for the bringing Men to the True Religion as the Râ—…d
of Correction is to drive Foolishness from a Child or to work Wisdom in him Because the Rod works on the Will of the Child to obey the Reason of the Father whilst under his Tuition and thereby makes it supple to the Dictates of his own Reason afterwards and disposes him to obey the Light of that when being grown to be a Man that is to be his Guide and this is Wisdom If your Penalties are so used I have nothing to say to them Your way is charg'd to be impracticable to those Ends you purpose which you indeavour to clear p. 63. That there may be fair play on both sides the Reader shall have in the same view what we both say 〈◊〉 2. p. 57. It remains now to examine whether the Author's Argument will not hold good even against Punishments in your way For if the Magistrate's Authority be as you here say only to procure all his Subjects mark what you say ALL HIS SVBJECTS the means of discovering the way of Salvation and to procure 〈◊〉 as much as in him lies that NONE remain ignorant of it or refuse to embrace it 〈◊〉 for want of using those means or by reason of any such prejudices as may render them 〈◊〉 If this be the Magistrate's business in reference to ALL HIS SUBJECTS I desire you or any Man else to tell me how this can be done by the application of Force only to a part of them Unless you will still vainly suppose ignorance negligence or prejudice only amongst that part which any-where differs from the Magistrate If those of the Magistrate's Church may be ignorant of the way of Salvation If it be possible there may be amongst them those who refuse to imbrace it eâ—…her for want of using those means or by reason of any such prejudices as may render them ineffectual What in this case becomes of the Magistrate's Authority to procure all his Subjects the means of discovering the way of Salvation Must these of his Subjects be neglected and left without the means be has Authority to procure them Or must he use Force upon them too And then pray shew me how this can be done Shall the Magistrate punish those of his own Religion to procâ—…re them the means of discovering the the way of Salvation and to procure as much as in him lies that they remain not ignor an t of it or refuse not to imbrace it These are such contradictions in Practice this is such condemnation of a Man 's own Religion as no one can expect from the Magistrate and I dare say you desire not of him And yet this is that he must do If his Authority be to procure ALL his Subjects the means of discovering the way to Salvation And if it be so needful as you say it is that he should use it I am sure Force cannot do that till it be apply'd wider and Punishment be laid upon more than you would have it For if the Magistrate be by Force to procure as much as in him lies that NONE remain ignorant of the way of Salvation must he not punish all those who are ignorant of the way of Salvation And pray tâ—…ll me how is this any way practicable but by supposing none in the National Church ignorant and all out of it ignorant of the way of Salvation Which what is it but to punish Men barely for not being of the Magistrate's Religion The very thing you deny he has Authority to do So that the Magistrate having by your own confession no Authority thus to use Force and it being otherways impracticable for the procuring all his Subjects the means of discovering the way of Salvation there is an end of Force And so Force being laid aside either as unlawful or unpracticable the Author's Argument holds good against Force even in your way of applying it L. 3. p. 63. But how little to the purpose this Request of yours is will quickly appear For if the Magistrate provides sufficiently for the instruction of all his Subjects in the true Religion and then requires them all under convenient Penalties to hearken to the Teachers and Ministers of it and to profess and 〈◊〉 it with one accord under their 〈◊〉 in Publick Assembâ—…ies Is there any prctence to say that in so doing he applies Force only to a part of his Subjects when the Law is general and excepts none ' â—…is true the Magistrate insticts the Penalties in that ease only upon them that break the Law But is that the the thing you mean by his applying Force only to a part of his Subjects Would you have him punish all indifferently them that obey the Law as well as them that do not As to Ignorance Negligence and Prejudice I desire yâ—…u or any Man â—…lse to tell me what better course can be taken to câ—…re them than that which I have mentioned For if after all that God's Ministers and the Magistrate can do some will still remain ignorant negligent or prejudiced I do not take that to be any disparagement to it For certainly that is a very extraordinary Remedy which infassibly cures all discas'd Persons to whom it is applied The Backwardness and Lusts that hinder an impartial Examination as you describe it is general The Corruption of Nature which hinders a real imbracing the true Religion that also you tell us here is universal I ask a Remedy for these in your way You say the Law for Conformity is general excepts none Very likely none that do not conform but punishes none who conforming do neither impartially examine nor really imbrace the true Religion From whence I conclude there is no corruption of Nature in those who are brought up or join in outward Communion with the Church of England But as to Ignorance Negligence and Prejudice you say you desire me or any Man else to tell what better course can be taken to cure them than that which you have mentioned If your Church can find no better way to cure Ignorance and Prejudice and the Negligence that is in Men to examine Matters of Religion and heartily imbrace the true than what is impracticable upon Conformists then of all others Conformists are in the most deplorable Estate But as I remember you have been told of a better way which is the 〈◊〉 with Men seriously and friendly about Matters in Religion by those whose Prosession is the Care of Souls examining what they do understand and where either through Laziness Prejudice or Dissiculty they do stick and applying to their several Diseases proper Cures which it is as impossible to do by a general Harangue once or twice a Week out of the Pulpit as to sit all Mens Feet with one Shoe or cure all Mens Ails with one though very wholsome Diet-drink To be thus instant in season and out of season some Men have thought a better way of Cure than a Desire only to have Men driven by the Whip either in your or the Magistrate's
Fourth Century had actually Miracles done before them to work upon them And all those who were not Eye-witnesses of Miracles done in their Presence 't is plain had no other Miracles than we have that is upon report and 't is probable not so many nor so well attested as we have The greatest part then of those who were converted at least in some of those Ages before Christianity was supported by the Laws of the Empire I think you must allow were wrought upon by bare preaching and such Miracles as we still have Miracles at a distance related Miracles In others and those the greater number Prejudice was not 〈◊〉 moved that they were prevailed on to consider to consider as they ought i. e. in your Language to consider so as to imbrace If they had not so considered in our Days what according to your Scheme must have been done to them that did not consider as they ought Force must have been applied to them what therefore in the Primitive Church was to be done to them Why your 〈◊〉 Miracles actual Miracles such as you deny the Christian Religion to be still accompanied with must have been doncin their presence to work upon them Will you say this was 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 a new Church-History for us and out do those Writers who have been thought pretty liberal of Miracles If you do not you must consess Miracles supplied not the place of Force and so let fall all your fine Contrivance about the necessity either of Force or Miracles and perhaps you will think it at last a more becoming Modesty not to set the Divine Power and Providonce on work by Rules and for the ends of your Hypothesis without having any thing in Authentick History much less in Divine and unerring Revelation to justify you But Force and Power deserve something more than ordinary and allowable Arts or Arguments to get and keep them Si violandum sit jus regnandi causa violandum cst If the Testimony of Miracles having been done wore sufficient to make the Gospel prevail without Force on those who were not Eye-Witnesses of them we have that still and so upon that account need not Force to supply the want of it But if Truth must have either the Law of the Country or actual Miracles to support it what became of it after the Reign of Constantine the Great under all those Emperors that were erroneous or Heretical It supported it self in Piedmont and France and Turky many Ages without Force or Miracles And it spread it self in divers Nations and Kingdoms of the North and East without any Force or other Miracles than those that were done many Ages before So that I think you will upon second thoughts not deny but that the true Religion is able to prevail now as it did at first and has done since in many places without assistance from the Powers in being by its own Beauty Force and Reasonableness whereof well-attested Miraclesis a part But the account you give us of Miracles will deserve to be a little examined we have it in these Words Considering that those extraordinary Means were not withdrawn till by their help Christianity had prcvail'd to be received for the Religion of the Empire and to be supported and incouraged by the Laws of it you cannot you say but think it highly probable if we may be allow'd to guess at the Counsels of infinite Wisdom that God was pleased to continue them till then not so much for any necessity there was of them all that while for the evincing the Truth of the Christian Religion as to supply the want of the Magistrate's Assistance Miracles then if what you say be true were continued till Christianity was received for the Religion of the Empire not so much to evince the Truth of the Christian Religion as to supply the want of the Magistrate's Assistance But in this the Leanned Author whose Testimony you quote fâ—…ils you For the tells you that the chief use of Miracles in the Church after the Truth of the Christian Religion had been sufficiently consirmed by them in the World was to oppose the salse and pretended Miracles of Hereticks and Heathens and answerable hereunto Miracles ceased and returned again as such oppositions made them more or less necessary Accordingly Miracles which before had abated in Trajan's and Hadrian's time which was in the latter end of the First or beginning of the Second Century did again revive to confound the Magical Delusions of the Hereticks of that time And in the third Century the Hereticks using no such Tricks and the Faith being consirm'd they by dearees ceased of which there then he says could be no imaginable necissity His Words are Et quidemâ—…o minus necessaria sunt pro veterum Principiis recentiora illa Miracula quod Haereticos quos appellant nullos adversarios habeant qui contraria illis dogmata astruant Miraculis Sic enim vidimus apud veteres dum nulli Ecclesiam exercerent Adversarii seu Haretici seu Gentiles aut satis illi praeteritis Miraculis 〈◊〉 an t nullas ipsi praestigias opponerent quae veris essent Miraculis oppugnandae 〈◊〉 deinde paulatim esse mirificam illam spiritus virtutem Ortos sub Trajano Hadrianoque Haereticos 〈◊〉 praestigiis Magicis fuisse usos proinde Miraculorum verorum in Ecclesia usum una REVIXISSE Ne dicam praestigiatores etiam Gentiles eodem illo seculo sane frequentissimos Apuleium in Africa in Asia Alexandrum Pseudomantim multosque alios quorum meminit Aristides Tertio seculo orto Haeretici Herniogenes Praxeas Noetus Theodotus Sabellius Novatianus Artemas Samosatenus nulla 〈◊〉 videtur Miracula ipsi venditabant nullis propterea Miraculis oppugnandi Inde vidimus apud ipsos etiam Catholicos sensim defecisse Miracula Et quidem Haereticis nulla in contrarium Miracula ostentantibus quae tandem singi potest miraculorum necessitas traditam ab initio fidem Miraculisque adeo jamdudum confirmatam praedicantibus Nulla certe prorsus pro Primaevo Miraculorum exemplo Nulla denique consciis vere Primaevam esse fidem quam novis Miraculis suscipiunt confirmandam The History therefore you have from him of Miracles serves for his Hypothesis but not at all for yours For if they were continued to supply the want of Force which was to deal with the Corruption of depraved Humane Nature that being without any great variation in the World constantly the same there could be no reason why they should abate and fail and then return and revive again So that there being then as you suppose no necessity of Miracles for any other end but to supply the want of the Magistrate's Assistance they must to sute that end be constant and regularly the same as you would have Force to be which is steadily and uninterruptedly to be applied as a constantly necessary Remedy to the corrupt Nature of Mankind If you allow the Learned Dodwell's Reasons for the continuation
has prevented me on that Subject having writ a Book particularly of his Life Anthony was thought worthy of the Vision of God and led a Life perfectly conformable to the Laws of Christ. This whoever reads the Book wherein is contain'd the History of his Life will easily know wherein he will also see Prophecy shining out For he prophesied very clearly of those who were infected with the Arian Contagion and foretold what Mischief from them was threatned to the Churches God truly reuealing all these things to him which is certainly the principal evidence of the Catholick Faith No such Man being to be found amongst the Hereticks But do not take this upon my Word but read and study the Book it self This Account you have from St. Chrysostom whom Mr. Dodwell calls the Contemner of Fables St. Hierom in his Treatise De Viro Perfecto speaks of the frequency of Miracles done in his time as a thing past question Besides those not a few which he has left upon record in the Lives of Hilarion and Paul two Monks whose Lives he has writ And he that has a mind to see the plenty of Miracles of this kind need but read the Collection of the Lives of the Fathers made by Rosweydus Russin tells us That Athanasius lodg'd the Bones of St. John Baptist in the Wall of the Church knowing by the Spirit of Prophecy the good they were to do to the next Generation And of what Efficacy and Use they were may be concluded from the Church with the golden Roof built to them soon after in the place of the Temple of Serapis St. Austin tells us That he knew a blind Man restor'd to sight by the Bodies of the Millan Martyrs and some other such things of which kind there were so many done in that time that many scaped his Knowledg and those which he knew were more than he could number More of this you may see Epist. 137. He further assures us that by the simple Reliques of St. Stephen a blind Woman receiv'd her Sight Lucullus was cured of an old Fistula Eucharius of the Stone Three Gouty Men recovered A Lad kill'd with a C art-wheel going over him restor'd to Life safe and sound as if he had received no hurt A Nun lying at the point of Death they sent ber Coat to the Shrine but she dying before it was brought back was restor'd to Life by its being laid on her dead Body The like happened at Hippo to the Daughter of BASSUS and two others whose Names he sets down were by the same Reliques raised from the dead After these and other Particulars there set down of Miracles done in his time by those Reliques of St. Stephen the holy Father goes on thus What shall I do pressed by my Promise of dispatching this Work I cannot here set down all And without doubt many when they shall read his will be troubled that I have omitted so many Particulars which they truly know as well as I. For if I should â—…assing by the rest 〈◊〉 only the miraculous Cures which have been wrought by this most glorious Martyr Stephen in the Colony of Calama and this of ours I should fill many Books and yet should not take in all of them But only of those of which there are Collections published which are read to the People For this I took care should be done when I saw that Signs of divine Power like those of old were FREQUENT also in our Times It is not now two Years since that Shrine has been at Hippo And many of the Books which I certainly knew to be so not being published those which are published concerning those miraculous Operations amounted to near fifty when I writ this But at Calama where this Shrine was before there are more published and their number is incomparably greater At Uzal also a Colony and near Utica we know many famous Things to have been done by the same Martyr Two of those Books he mentions are printed in the Appendix of the Xâ—… Tome of St. Austin's Works of Plantius Edit One of them contains two Miracles the other as I remember about seventeen So that at Hippo alone in two Years time we may count besides those omitted there were published above 600 Miracles and as he says incomparably more at Calama besides what were done by other Reliques of the same St. Stephen in other parts of the World which cannot be suppos'd to have had less virtue than those sent to this part of Africa For the Reliques of St. Stephen discovered by the Dream of a Monk were divided and sent into distant Countries and there distributed to several Churches These may suffice to shew that if the Fathers of the Church of great it Name and Authority are to be believed Miracles were not withdrawn but continued down to the latter end of the 4 th Century long after Christianity had prevailed to be received for the Religion of the Empire But if these Testimonies of Athanasâ—… Chrysostom Palladius Russin St. Hierom and St. Austin will not serve your turn you may find much more to this purpose in the same Authors and if you please you may consult also St. Basil Gregory Nazianzen Gregory Nazianzen St. Ambrose St. Hilary Theodoret and others This being so you must either deny the Authority of these Fathers or grant that Miracles continued in the Church after Christianity was received for the Religion of the Empire and then they could not be to supply the want of the Magistrate's Assistance unless they were to supply the want of what was not wanting and therefore they were continued for some other end Which end of the Continuation of Miracles when you are so far instructed in as to be able to assure us that it was different from that for which God made use of them in the 2d and 3d Centuries when you are so far admitted into the Secrets of Divine Providence as to be able to convince the World that the Miracles between the Apostles and Constantine's Time or any other Period you shall pitch on were to supply the want of the Magistrate's Assistance and those after for some other purpose what you say may deserve to be consider'd Till you do this you will only shew the Liberty you take to assert with great Confidence though without any ground whatever will sute your System and that you do not stick to make bold with the Counsels of infinite Wisdom to make them subservient to your Hypothesis And so I leave you to dispose of the Credit of Ecclesiastical Writers as you shall think fit and by your Authority to establish or invalidate theirs as you please But this I think is evident that he who will build his Faith or Reasonings upon Miracles delivered by Church-Historians wiâ—… find cause to go no farther than the Apostles time or else not to stop at Constantine's since the Writers after that period whose Word we readily take as unquestionable in other
things speak of Miracles in their time with no less Assurance than the Fathers before the 4 th Century and a great part of the Miracles of the 2d and 3d Centuries stand upon the Credit of the Writers of the 4 th So that that sort of Argument which takes and rejects the Testimony of the Ancients at pleasure as may best sute with it will not have much force with those who are not disposed to imbrace the Hypothesis without any Arguments at all You grant That the True Religion has always Light and Strength of its own i. e. without the Assistance of Force or Miracles sufficient to prevail with all that consider it seriously and without Prejudice That therefore for which the Assistance of Force is wanting is to make Men consider seriously and without Prejudice Now whether the Miracles that we have still Miracles done by Christ and his Apostles attested as they are by undeniable History be not fitter to deal with Mens Prejudices than Force and than Force which requires nothing but outward Conformity I leave the World to judg All the Assistance the true Religion needs from Authority is only a Liberty for it to be truly taught but it has seldom had that from the Powers in being in its first entry into their Dominions since the withdrawing of Miracles And yet I desire you to tell me into what Country the Gospel accompanied as now it is only with past Miracles hath been brought by the Preaching of Men who have labour'd in it after the Example of the Apostles where it did not so prevail over Mens Prejudices that as many as were ordain'd to eternal Life consider'd and believ'd it Which as you may see Aâ—…t XIII 48. was all the Advance it made even when assisted with the Gift of Miracles For neither then were all or the majority wrought on to consider and embrace it But yet the Gespel cannot prevail by its own Light and Strength and therefore Miracles were to supply the place of Force How was Force used A Law being made there was a continued Application of Punishment to all those whom it brought not to imbrace the Doctrine proposed Were Miracles so used till Force took place For this we shall want more new Church-History and I think contrary to what we read in that part of it which is unquestionable I mean in the Acts of the Apostles where we shall find that the then Promulgators of the Gospel when they had preach'd and done what Miracles the Spirit of God directed if they prevail'd not they often left them Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold and said It was necessary that the Word of God should first have been spoken to you but seeing you put it from you and judg your selves unworthy we turn to the Gentiles They shook off the Dust of their Feet against them and came unto Iconium But when divers were hardned and believed not but spake evil of that way before the multitude he departed from them and separated the Disciples Paul was pressed in Spirit and testisied to the Jews that Jesus was Christ and when they opposed themselves and blasphemed he shook his Raiment and said unto them Your Blood be upon your own heads I am clean from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles Did the Christian Magistrates ever do so who thought it necessary to support the Christian Religion by Laws Did they ever when they had a while punish'd those whom Perswasions and Preaching had not prevail'd on give off and leave them to themselves and make trial of their Punishment upon others Or is this your way of Force and Punishment If it be not your's is not what Miracles came to supply the room of and so is not necessary For you tell us they are punish'd to make them consider and they can never be suppos'd to consider as they ought whilst they persist in rejecting and therefore they are justly punish'd to make them so consider So that not so considering being the Fault for which they are punish'd and the Amendment of that Fault the end which is design'd to be attain'd by punishing the Punishment must continue But Men were not always heat upon with Miracles To this perhaps you will reply that the seeing of a Miracle or two or half a dozen was sufficient to procure a hearing but that being punish'd once or twice or half a dozen times is not for you tell us the Power of Miracles communicated to the Apostles served altogether as well as Punishment to procure them a hearing Where if you mean by Hearing only Attention who doubts but Punishment may also procure that if you mean by Hearing receiving and imbracing what is propos'd that even Miracles themselves did not effect upon all Eye-witnesses Why then I beseech you if one be to supply the place of the other is one to be continued on those who do reject when the other was never long continued nor as I think we may safely say often repeated to those who persisted in their former Perswasions After all therefore may not one justly doubt whether Miracles supplied the place of Punishment nay whether you your self if you be true to your own Principles can think so You tell us that not to join themselves to the True Church where sufficient Evidence is offered to convince Men that it is so is a Fault that it cannot be unjust to punish Let me ask you now Did the Apostles by their Preaching and Miracles offer sufficient Evidence to convince Men that the Church of Christ was the True Church or which is in this case the same thing that the Doctrine they preach'd was the True Religion If they did were not those who persisted in Unbelief guilty of a Fault And if some of the Miracles done in those days should now be repeated and yet Men should not imbrace the Doctrine or join themselves to the Church which those Miracles accompanied would you not think them guilty of a Fault which the Magistrate might justly nay ought to punish If you would answer truly and sincerely to this Question I doubt you would think your beloved Punishments necessary notwithstanding Miracles there being no other â—…umane Means left I do not make this Judgment of you from any ill Opinion I have of your good Nature but it is consonant to your Principles For if not Professing the True Religion where sufficient evidence is offer'd by bare Preaching be a Fault and a Eault jusâ—…y to be punish'd by the Magistrate you will certainly think it much more his Duty to punish a greater Fault as you must allow it is to reject Truth propos'd with Arguments and Miracles than with bare Arguments Since you tell us that the Magistrate is obliged to procure as much as in him lies that every Man take care of his own Soul i. e. consider as he ought which no Man can be suppos'd to do whilst he persists in rejecting As you tell us pag.
will become of the true Religion which according to you cannot subsist or prevail without either the Assistance of Miracles or Authority Subjects cannot have the Assistance of Authority where the Magistrate is not of the true Religion and the Magistrate wanting the assistance of Authority to bring him to the true Religion that want must be still supplied with Miracles or else according to your Hypothesis all must go to wrack and the True Religion that cannot subsist by its own Strength and Light must be lost in the World For I presume you are scarce yet such an Adorer of the Powers of the World as to say that Magistrates are privileged from that common Corruption of Mankind whose opposition to the true Religion you suppose cannot be overcome without the assistance of Miracles or Force The Flock will stray unless the Bell-weather conduct them right the Bell-weather himself will stray unless the Shepherd's Crook and Staff which he has as much need of as any Sheep of the Flock keep him right Ergo The whole Flock will stray unless the Bell-weather have that assistance which is necessary to conduct him right The Case is the same here So that by your own Rule either there was no need of Miracles to supply the want of Force after the Apostles time or there is need of them still But your Answer when looked into has something in it more excellent I say a Religion that is of God wants not the assistance of Humane Authority to make it prevail You answer True when God takes the matter into his own Hands But when once he has sufficiently settled Religion so that if Men will but do what they may and ought it may subsist without that extraordinary assistance from Heaven then he leaves it to their Care Where you suppose if Men will do their Duties in their several Capacities true Religion being once establish'd may subsist without Miracles And is it not as true that if they will in their several Capacities do what they may and ought true Religion will also subsist without Force But you are sure Magistrates will do what they may and ought to preserve and propagate the true Religion but Subjects will not If you are not you must bethink your self how to answer that old Question Sed quis custodiet 〈◊〉 Custodes To my having said that prevailing without the assistance of Force I thought was made use of as an Argument for the Truth of Christian Religion You reply that you hope I am mistaken for sure this is a very bad Argument That the Christian Religion so contrary in the 〈◊〉 of is as well to Elesh and Blood as to the Powers of Darkness should prevail as it did and that not only without any assistance from Authority but even in spight of all the opposition which Authority and a wicked World joined with those infernal Powers could make against it This I acknowledg has deservedly been insisted upon by Christians as a very good proof of their Religion But to argue the Truth of the Christian Religion from its â—…eer prevailing in the World without any aid from Force or the assistance of the Powers in being as is whatever Religion should so prevail must needs be the true Religion whatever may be intended is really not to desend the Christian Religion but to beâ—…ray it How you have mended the Argument by putting in â—…eer which is not any where used by me I will not examine The Question is whether the Christian Religion such as it was then for I know not any other Christian Religion and is still contrary to the Flesh and Blood and to the Powers of Darkness prevail'd not without the assistance of Humane Force by those aids it has still This I think you will not deny to be an Argument used for its Truth by Christians and some of our Church How far any one in the use of this Argument pleases or displeases you I am not concern'd All the use I made of it was to shew that it is confessed that the Christian Religion did prevail without that Humane Means of the coactive Power of the Magistrate which you assumed to be necessary and this I think makes good the Experiment I brought Nor will your seeking your way a Refuge in Miracles help you to evade it as I have already shewn But you give a Reason for what you say in these following words For neither does the True Religion always prevail without the Assistance of the Powers in being nor is that always the True Religion which does so spread and prevail Those who use the Argument of its prevailing without Force for the Truth of the Christian Religion 't is like will tell you that if it be true as you say that the Christian Religion which at other times does some-times does not prevail without the Assistance of the Powers in being it is because when it fails it wants the due Assistance and Diligence of the Ministers of it How shall they hear without a Preacher How shall the Gospel be spread and prevail if those who take on them to be the Ministers and Preachers of it either neglect to teach it others as they ought or confirm it not by their Lives If therefore you will make this Argument of any use to you you must shew where it was that the Ministers of the Gospel doing their Duty by the Purity of their Lives and their interrupted Labour in being instant in season and out of season have not been able to make it prevail An Instance of this 't is believed you will scarco find And if this be the case that it fails not to prevail where those whose Charge it is neglect not to teach and spread it with that Care Assiduity and Application which they ought you may hereafter know where to lay the blame Not on the Want of sufficient Light and Strength in the Gospel to prevail wherein methinks you make very bold with it but on the want of what the Apostle requires in the Ministers of it some part whereof you may read in these Words to Timothy But thou O Man of God follow after Righteousness Godliness Faith Love Patience Meekness Give Attendance to Reading to Exhortation to Doctrine preach the Word be instant in season and out of season reprove rebuke exhort with all Long-suffering and Doctrine And more to this purpose in his Epistles to Timothy and Titus That the Christian Religion has prevail'd and supported it self in the World now above these 1600 Years you must grant and that it has not been by Force is Demonstration For where-ever the Christian Religion prevail'd it did it as far as we know any thing of the means of its Propagation and Support without the help of that Force moderate Force which you say is alone useful and necessary So that if the Severities you condemn be as you confess apter to hinder than promote the Gospel and it has no where had the Assistance of your
moderate Penalties it must follow that it prevail'd without Force only by its own Strength and Light displaid and brought home to the Understandings and Hearts of the People by the Preaching Intreaties and Exhortations of its Ministers This at least you must grant that Force can be by no means necessary to make the Gospel prevail any where till the utmost has been tried that can be done by Arguments and Exhortations Prayers and Intreaties and all the friendly Ways of Perswasion As to the other part of your Assertion Nor is that always the True Religion that does so spread and prevail 'T is like they will demand Instances of you where False Religions ever prevail'd against the Gospel without the assistance of Force on the one side or the betraying of it by the Negligence and Carelesness of its Teachers on the other So that if the Gospel any where wants the Magistrate's Assistance it is only to make the Ministers of it do their Duty I have heard of those and possibly there are Instances of it now not wanting who by their pious Lives peaceable and friendly Carriage and diligent Application to the several Conditions and Capacities of their Parishioners and screening them as much as they could from the Penalties of the Law have in a short time scarce left a Dissenter in a Parish where notwithstanding the Force had been before used they scarce found any other But how far this has recommended such Ministers to those who ought to incourage or follow the Example I wish you would inform your self and then tell me But who sees not that a Justice of Peace's Warrant is a shorter and much easier way for the Minister than all this â—…do of instruction Debates and particular Application Whether it be also more Christian or more effectual to make real Converts others may be apt to enquire This I am sure it is not justifiable even by your very Principles to be used till the other has been throughly tried But if there be any thing in the Argument for the Truth of Christianity as God forbid there should not that it has and consequently can prevail without Force I think it can scarce be 〈◊〉 in matter of Fact that False Religions do also prevail against the Christian Religion when they come upon equal Terms in Competition and as much Diligence and Industry is used by the Teachers of it as by Seducers to False Religions the Magistrate using his Force on neither side For if in this case which is the fair trial Christianity can prevail and False Religions too 't is possible Contrarieties may prevail against one another both together To make good therefore your Assertion you must shew us where-ever any other Religion so spread and prevail'd as to drive Christianity out of any Country without Force where the Ministers of it did their Duty to teach adorn and support it As to the following words Nor is that always the True Religion which does so spread and prevail as I doubt not but you will acknowledg with me when you have but consider'd within how few Generations after the Flood the Worship of false Gods prevail'd against that which Noah professed and taught his Children which was undoubtedly the True Religion almost to the utter Exclusion of it though that at first was the only Religion in the World without any aid from Force or assistance from the Powers in being This will need something more than a negative Proof as we shall see by and by Where I say The Inventions of Men need the Force and Help of Men A Religion that is from God wants not the assistance of humane Authority The first part of those Words you take no notice of neither grant nor deny it to be so though perhaps it will prove a great part of the Controversy between us To my Question Whether if such a Toleration as is propos'd by the Author of the First Letter were establish'd in France Spain Italy Portugal c. the True Religion would not be a gainer by it You answer That the True Religion would be a loser by it in those few Places where it is now establish'd as the National Religion and particularly you name England It is then it seems by your way of moderate Force and lower Penalties that in all Countries where it is National the True Religion hath prevail'd and subsists For the Controversy is between the Author 's universal Toleration and your new Way of Force for greater degrees of Force you condemn as hurtful Say then that in England and where-ever the True Religion is National it has been beholden to your Force for the Advantages and Support it has had and I will yeild you the Cause But of National Re ligions and particularly that of England I have occasion to speak more in another place In the next place you answer That you suppose I do not hope I shall perswade the World to consent to my Toleration I think by your Logick a Proposition is not less true or false because the World will or will not be perswaded to consent to it And therefore though it will not consent to a general Toleration it may nevertheless be true that it would be advantageous to the True Religion and if no body must speak Truth till he thinks all the World will be perswaded by it you must have a very good Opinion of your Oratory or else you will have a very good Excuse to turn your Parsonage when you have one into a sine-Cure But though I have not so good an Opinion of my Gift of Perswasion as perhaps you have of yours yet I think I may without any great Presumption hope that I may as soon perswade England the World or any Government in it to consent to my Toleration as you perswade it to content it self with moderate Penalties You farther answer If such a Toleration establish'd there would permit the Doctrine of the Church of England to be truly preach'd and its Worship set up in any Popish Mahometan or Pagan Country you think True Religion would be a gainer by it for a time but you think withal that an universal Toleration would ruin it both there and every where else in the end You grant it then possible notwithstanding the Corruption of humane Nature that the True Religion may gain some where and for some time by Toleration It will gain under a new Toleration you think but decay under an old one Would you had told us the Reason why you think so But you think there is great reason to fear that without God's extraordinary Providence it woâ—…ld in a much shorter time than any one who does not well consider the matter will imagine be most effectually 〈◊〉 by it throughout the World If you have considered right and the matter be really so it is demonstration that the Christian Religion since Constantine's time as well as the True Religion before Moses's time must needs have
been totally extinguish'd out of the World and have so continued unless by Miracle and immediate Revelation restor'd For those Men i. e. the Magistrates upon whose being of the True Religion the Preservation of it according to you depends living all of them under a free Toleration must needs lose the True Religion effectually and speedily from among them aâ—…d they quitting the True Religion the assistance of Force which should support it against a general Defection be utterly lost The Princes of the World are I suppose as well infected with the depraved Nature of Man as the rest of their Brethren These whether 100 or 1000 suppose they lived together in one Society wherein with the True Religion there were a free Toleration and no Coactive Power of the Magistrate imployed about Matters of Religion would the True Religion be soon extirpated amongst them If you say it would not you must grant Toleration not to be so destructive of the True Religion as you say or you must think them of another race than the rest of corrupt Men and free from that general Taint If you grant that the True Religion would be quickly extirpated amongst them by Toleration living together in one Society the same will happen to them living as Princes where they are free from all Coactive Power of the Magistrate in Matters of Religion and have as large a Toleration as can be imagin'd Unless you will say that depraved humane Nature works less in a Prince than a Subject and is most tame most mortified where it has most Liberty and Temptation Must not then if your Maxim be true Toleration quickly deprive the few Orthodox Princes that are in the World take it when you will of the True Religion and with them take away the Assistance of Authority which is necessary to support it amongst their Subjects Toleration then does not whatever your Fears are make that woful wrack on True Religion which you talk of I shall give you another Evidence of it and then come to examine your great Reason taken from the Corruption of humane Nature and the Instance you so often repeat and build so much on the Apostacy after the Flood Toleration you sav would quickly and effectually extirpate the True Reiigion throughout the World What now is the Means to preserve True Religion in the World If you may be believed 't is Force but not all Force great Severities Fire Faggot Imprisonment loss of Estate c. These will do more harm than good 't is only lower and moderate Penaltics some tolerable Inconveniences can do the business If then moderate Force hath not been all along no nor any where made use of for the Preservation of the True Religion the Maintenance and Support of the True Religion in the World has not been owing to what you oppose to Toleration And so your Argument against Toleration is out of doors You give us in this and the foregoing Pages the Grounds of your Fear It is the Corruption of humane Nature which opposes the True Religion You express it thus Idolatry prevailing against it the True Reigion not by its own Light and Strength for it could have nothing of either but meerly by the Advantage it had in the Corruption and Pravity of humane Nature finding out to it self more agreeable Religions than the true For say you whatever Hardships some False Religions may impose it will however always be easier to carnal and worldly-minded Men to give even their First-born for their Transgressions than to mortify their Lusts from which they spring which no Religion but the True requires of them I wonder saying this how you could any longer mistake the Magistrate's Duty in reference to Religion and not see wherein Force truly can and ouâ—…ht to be serviceable to it What you have said plainly shews you that the Assistance the Magistrate's Authority can give to the True Religion is in the subduing of Lusts and its being directed against Pride Injustice Rapine Luxury and Debauchery and those other Immoralities which come properly under his Cognisance and may be corrected by Punishments and not by the imposing of Creeds and Ceremonics as you tell us Sound and Decent you might have left out whereof their Fancies and not the Law of God will always be Judg and consequently the Rule The Case between the true and false Religions as you have stated it in short sounds thus True Religion has always Light and 〈◊〉 of its own sufficient to prevail with all that seriously consider it and without prejudice 〈◊〉 or False Religions have nothing of Light or Strength to prevail with Why then does not the true Religion prevail against the false having so much the advantage in Light and Strength The Counter-ballance of Prejudice hinders And wherein does that Strâ—…ngth The Drunkard must part with his Cups and Companions and the Voluptuous Man with his Pleasures The Proud and Vain must lay by all Excess in Apparel Furniture and Attendance and Money the support of all these must be got only by the ways of Justice Honesty and fair Industry And every one must live peaceably uprightly and friendly with his Neighbour Here then the Magistrate's aâ—…istance is wanting Here they may and ought to interpose their Power and by Severities against Drunkenness Laciviousnes and all sorts of Debauchery by a steady and unrelaxed Punishment of all the ways of Fraud and Injustice and by their Administration Countenance and Example reduce the Irregularities of Mens Manners into order and bring Sobriety Peaceableness Industry and Honesty into Fashion This is their proper Business every-where and for this they have a Commission from God both by the Light of Nature and Revelation and by this removing the great Counterpoise which lies in strictness of Life and is so strong a Bias with the greatest part against the true Religion they would cast the Ballance on that â—…de For if Men were forced by the Magistrate to live sober honest and strict Lives whatever their Religion were would not the advantage be on the side of Truth when the gratifying of their Lusts were not to be obtained by for saking her In Mens Lives lies the main Obstacle to right Opinions in Religion and if you will not believe me yet what a very rational Man of the Church of England says in the case will deserve to be remembred Did Religion bestow Heaven without any Forms and Conditions indifferently upon all If the Crown of Life was Hereditary and free to good and bad and not settled by Covenant upon the Elect of God only such as live soberly righteously and godly in this present World I believe there would be no such thing as an Insidel among us And without Controversy 't is the way and means of attaining to Heaven that makes profane Scoffers so willing to let go the expeclation of it 'T is not the Articles of the Creed but their Dury to God and their Neighbâ—…r that is such an
throughout the World without the assistance of Force we find it at Athens at Philippi at 〈◊〉 amongst the Româ—…ns in Antioch of Pisidia in Thâ—…ssalonica above 2000 Years after and that not so near being extinguish'd but that in some of those Places the Professors of it were numerous at Thessalonica they are call'd a great Multitude at 〈◊〉 many and how many of them there were in other parts of the World whereof there was no occasion to make mention in that short History of the 〈◊〉 of the Apostles who knows If they answered in other Places to what were found in these as â—…hat reason is there to suppose they should not I think we may imagine them to be as many as there were effectually of the true Religion Christians in Europe a little before the Reformation not withstanding the assistance the 〈◊〉 Religion had from Authority after the withdrawing of Miraâ—…les But you have a Salvo for you write warily and endeavour to save your self on all handâ—… you say There is great reason to fear that without God's EXTRAORDINARY PROVIDENCE it would in a much shorter time than any one who does not well consider the matter would imagine be most 〈◊〉 extirpated by it throughout the World 'T is without doubt the Provideâ—…ce of God which governs the Aâ—…airs both of the World and his Church and to that whether you call it Ordinary or Extraordinary you may trust the Preservation of his Church without the use of such Means as he has no where appointed or authorized You fancy Force necessary to preserve the True Religion and hence you conclude the Magistrate authorized without any farther Commission from God to use it if there be no other Means left and therefore that must be used If Religion should be preserved without it it is by the Extraordinary Providence of God where Extraordinary signiâ—…cs nothing but begging the thing in question The true Religion has been preserved many Ages in the Church without Force Ay say you that was by the Extraordinary Providâ—…ce of God His Providence which over-rules all Events we eaâ—…ly grant it But why Extraordinary Providence because Force was 〈◊〉 to preserve it And why was Force 〈◊〉 because otherwise without Extraordinary Providence it cannot be preserv'd In such Circles covered under good Words but misapplied one might shew you taking many a Turn in your answer if it were â—…it to waste others time to trace your Wanderings God has appointed Preaching Teaching Perswaâ—…on Instruction as a means to continue and propagate his true Religion in the World and if it were any where preserved and propagated without that we might call it his Extraordinary Providence but the means he has appointed being used we may conclude that Men have done their Duties and so may leave it to his Providence however we will call it to preserve the little Flock which he bids not to fear to the end of the World But let us return again to what you say to make good this Hypothesis of yours That Idolatry entred first into the World by the Contrivance and spread it self by the Endeavours of private Men without the Assistance of the Magistrates and those in Power To prove this you tell us That it found Entrance into the World and Entertaâ—…nment in it when it could have no such Aid or Assistance When was this I bâ—…eech you that Idolatry found this Entrance into the World Under what King's Reign was it that you are so positive it could have no such Aid or Assistance If you had named the time the thing though of no great momâ—…nt to you had been sure But now we may very justly question this bare Assertion of yours For since we find as far back as we have any History of it that the great Men of the World were always forward to set up and promote Idolatry and False Religions you ought to have given us some reason why without Authority from History you aâ—…irm that Idolatry at its entrance into the World had not that Assistance from Men in Power which it never fail'd of afterwards Who they were that made Israel to sin the Scripture tells us Their Kings were so zealous Promoters of Idolatry that there is 〈◊〉 one of them that has not that Brand left upon him in holy Writ One of the first False Religions whose rise and way of propagating we have an account of in Sacred History was by an ambitious Usurper who having rebell'd against his Master with a False Title set up a False Religion to secure his Power and Dominion Why this might not have been done before Jeroboam's days and Idols set up at other places as well as at Dan and Bethel to serve politick Ends will need some other Proof than barely saying it could not be so at first The Devil unless much more ignorant was not less busy in those days to engage Princes in his favour and to weave Religion into Affairs of State the better to introduce his Worship and support Idolatry by accommodating it to the Ambition Vanity or Superstition of Men in Power and therefore you may as well say that the Corruption of humane Nature as that the Assistance of the Powers in being did not in those days help forward False Religions because your Reading has furnish'd you with no particular mention of it out of History But you need but say that the Worship of False Gods prevail'd without any aid from Force or the assistance of the Powers in being for any thing we find in the History of those times and then you have sufficiently 〈◊〉 what even that you have just nothing to shew for your Assertion But whatever that any thing is which you find in History you may meet with Men whose reading yet I will not compare with yours who think they have found in History that Princes and those in Power first corrupted the True Religion by setting up the Images and Symbols of their Predecessors in their Temples which by their Influence and the ready Obedience of the Priests they appointed were in succession of Time propos'd to the People as Objects of their Worship Thus they think they find in History that 〈◊〉 Queen of Egypt with her Counsellor Thoth instituted the Funeral-Rites of King Osirâ—… by the Honour done to the sacred Ox. They think they find also in History that the â—…ame Thoth who was also King of Egypt in his turn invented the Figures of the first Egyptian Gods Saturn Dagon Jupiter Hammon and the rest that is the Figures of their Statues or Idols and that he instituted the Worship and Sacrifices of these Gods And his Institutions were so well assisted by thâ—…se in Authority and observed by the 〈◊〉 they set up that the Worship of those Gods soon became the Religion of that and a Pattern to other Nations And here we may perhaps with good reason place the rise and original of Idolatry after the Flood there being nothing of this kind more ancient So
that I think Men could run into false and foollsh Ways of Worship without the Instigation or Assistance of humane Authority but the Powers of the World as far as we have any History having been always forward enough True Religion as little serving Princes as private Mens Lusts to take up Wrong Religions and as forward to imploy their Authority to 〈◊〉 the Religlon good or bad which they had once taken up I can see no reason why the not using of Force by the Princes of the World should be assigned as the sole or so much as the most probable Cause of propagating the False Religions of the World or extirpating the True or how you can so positively say Idolatry prevail'd without any assistauce from the Powers in being Since therefore History leads us to the Magistrates as the Authors and Promoters of Idolatry in the World to which we may suppose their not supressing of Vice joined as another Cause of the spreading of False Religions you were best consider whether you can still suppose there can no other Cause be assigned of the prevailing of the worship of False Gods but the Magistrate's not interposing his Authority in matters of Religion For that that cannot with any probability at all be assigned as any Cause I shall give you this further Reason You impute the prevailing of False Religions to the Corruption and Pravity of Humane Nature left to it self unbridled by Authority Now if Force your way applied does not at all bridle the Corruption and Pravity of Humane Nature the Magistrate's not so interposing his Authority cannot be assigned as any Cause at all of that Apostacy So that let that Apostacy have what rise and spreas as far as you please it will not make one jot for Force your way applied or shew that that can receive any assistance your way from Authority For your use of Authority and Force being only to bring Mento an outward Conformity to the National Religion it leaves the Corruption and Prauity of Humane Nature as unbridled as before as I have shewn elsewhere You tell us That it is not true that the true Religion will preuail by its own Light and Strength without Miracles or the assistance of the Powers in being because of the Corruption of Humane Nature And for this you give us an instance in the Apostacy presently after the Flood And you tell us That without the 〈◊〉 of Force it would presently be extirpated out of the World 〈◊〉 the Corruption of Humane Nature be so universal and so strong that without the help of Force the true Religion is too weak to stand it and cannot at all prevail without Miracles or Force How come Men ever to be converted in Countries where the National Religion is False If you say by Extraordinary Providence what that amounts to has been shewn If you say this Corruption is so potent in all Men as to oppese and prevail against the Gospel not assisted by Force or Miracles that is not true If in most Men so it is still even where Force is used For I desire you to name me a Country where the greatest part are really and truly Christians such as you confidently believe Christ at the last Day will own to be so In England having as you do excluded all the Dissenters or else why would you have them punish'd to bring them to imbrace the true Religion you must I fear allow your self a great Latitude in thinkiing if you think that the Corruption of Humane Nature does not so far prevail even amongst Conformists as to make the Ignorance and Lives of great numbers amongst them such as sutes not at all with the Spirit of â—…ue Christianity How great their Ignorance may be in the more spiritual and elevated parts of the Christian Religion may be guessed by what the Reverend Bishop before cited says of it in reference to a Rite of the Church the most easy and obvious to be instructed in and understood His Words are In the common management of that Holy Right Consirmation it is but too uisible that of those Multitudes that croud to it the far greater part coâ—… meerly as if they were to receive the 〈◊〉 Blossing without any sense of the Vow made by them and of their renewing their Baptismal Engagements in it And if Origen were now alive might he not sind many in our Church to whom these Words of his might be apply'd Whose Faith signifiâ—…only 〈◊〉 much and goes no farther than this VIZ. that they come duly to the Church and how their Heads to the Priests c. For it seems it was then the Fashion to bow to the Priest as it is now to the Altar If therefore you say Force is necessary because without it no Men will so consider as to imbrace the true Religion for the Salvation of their Souls that I think is manifestly false If you say it is necessary to use such means as will make the greatest part so imbrace it you must use some other means than Force your way applied for that does not so far work on the Majority If you say it is necessary because possibly it may work on some which bare Preaching and Perswasion will not I answer If possibly your moderate Punishments may work on some and therefore they are necessary 't is as possible that greater Punishments may work on others and therefore they are necessary and so on to the utmost Severities That the Corruption of Humane Nature is every where spread and that it works powerfully in the Children of Disobedience who received not the Love of the Truth but had Pleasure in Unrighteousness and therefore God gives them up to believe a Lie no Body I think will deny But that this Corruption of Humane Nature works equally in all Men or in all Ages and so that God will or ever did give up all Men not restrained by Force your way modified and applied to believe a Lie as all False Religions are that I yet see no reason to grant Nor will this Instance of Noah's Religion you so much rely on ever perswade till you have proved that from those eight Men which brought the true Religion with them into the new World there were not eight thousand or eighty thousand which retain'd it in the World in the worst Times of the Apostacy And Secondly till you have proved that the False Religions of the World prevail'd without any aid from Force or the assistance of the Powers in being And Thirdly That the decay of the true Religion was for want of Force your moderate Force neither of which you have at all proved as I think it manifest One Consideration more touching Noah and his Religion give me leave to suggest and that is If Force were so necessary for the support of the true Religion as you make it 't is strange God who gave him Precepts about other things should never reveal this to him nor any Body else
that I know To this you who have confessed the Scripture not to have given the Magistrate this Commission must say that it is plain enough in the Commission that he has from the Law of Nature and so needed not any Revelation to instruct the Magistrate in the Right he has to use Force I confess the Magistrates have used Force in matters of Religion and have been as considently and constantly put upon it by their Priests as if they had as clear a Commission from Heaven as St. Peter had to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles But yet 't is plain notwithstanding that Commission from the Law of Nature there needs some farther instruction from Revelation since it does not appear that they have found out the right use of Force such as the true Religion requires for its Preservation and though you have after several thousands of Years at last discovered it yet it is very 〈◊〉 you not being able to tell if a Law were now to be made against those who have not consider'd as they ought what are those moderate Penalties which are to be imployed against them though yet without that all the rest signifies nothing But however doubtful you are in this I am glad to find you so direct in putting Mens rejecting the 〈◊〉 Religion upon the difficulty they have to 〈◊〉 their 〈◊〉 which the true Religion requires of them and I desire you to remember it in other places where I have occasion to mind you of it To conclude That we may see the great advantage your Cause will receive from that Instance you so much rely on of the Apostacy after the Flood I shall oppose another to it You say That Idolatry prevail'd in the World in a few Generations almost to the â—…tter exclusion of the true Religion without any Aid from Force or Assistance of the Powers in being by reason of Toleration And therefore you think there is great reason to fear that the trac Religion would by Toleration quickly be most effectually extirpated thoughout the World And I say that after Christianity was received for the Religion of the Empire and whilst Political Laws and Force interposed in it an horrible Apostacy prevail'd 〈◊〉 most the â—…tter exclusion of the true Religion and a general introducing of Idolatry And therefore I think there is great reason to fear more harm than good from the use of Force in Religion This I think as good an Argument against as yours for Force and something better since what you build on is only presum'd by you not proved from History whereas the matter of Fact here is well known nor will you deny it when you consider the State of Religion in Christendom under the assistance of that Force which you tell us succeeded and supplied the place of withdrawn Miracles which in your Opinion are so necessary in the absence of Force that you make that the reason of their continuance and tell us they were continued â—…ill Force could be had not so much for evincing the Truth of Christian Religion as to supply the want of the Magistrate's Assistance So that when ever Force fail'd there according to your Hypothesis are Miracles to supply its want for without one of them the True Religion if we may believe you will soon be â—…terly extirpated and what Force in the absence of Miracles produced in Christendoin several Ages before the Reformation is so well known that it will be hard to find what Service your way of arguing will do any but the Romish Religion But to take your Argument in its full Latitude you say but you say it without Book that there was once a Toleration in the World to the almost utter Extirpation of the true Religion and I say to you that as far as Records authorize either Opinion we may say Force has been always used in matters of Religion to the great prejudice of the true Religion and the Professors of it And there not being an Age wherein you can shew me upon a fair Trial of an establish'd National Toleration that the true Religion was extirpated or indangered so much as you pretend by it Whereas there is no Age whereof we have sufficient History to judg of this matter wherein it will not be easy to find that the true Religion and its Followers suffered by Force You will in vain endeavour by Instances to prove the ill effects or uselesness of Toleration such as the Author proposed which I challenge you to shew me was ever yet set up in the World or that the true Religion sufferd by it and 't is to the want of it the Restraints and Disadvantages the true Religion has laboured under and it s so little spreading in the World will justly be imputed until from better Experiments you have something to say against it Our Saviour has promised that he will build his Church on this fundamental Truth That he is Christ the Son of God so that the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it And this I believe though you tell us the True Religion is not able to subsist without the assistance of Force when Miracles cease I do not remember that our Saviour any where promises any other assistance but that of his Spirit or gives his little Flock any Encouragement to expect much Countenance or Help from the great Men of the World or the Coercive Power of the Magistrates nor any where authorizes them to use it for the support of his Church Not many wise Men after the Flesh not many mighty not many noble is the Stile of the Gospel and I believe will be found to belong to all Ages of the Church Militant past and to come as well as to the first For God as St. Paul tells us has chosen the foolish things of the World to confound the wise and the weak things of the World to confound the mighty and this not only till Miracles ceased but ever since To be hated for Christ's Name sake and by much Tribulation to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven has been the general and constant Lot of the People of God as well as it seems to be the current Strain of the New Testament which promises nothing of secular Power or Greatness says nothing of Kings being nursing Fathers or Queens nursing Mothers which Prophecy whatever meaning it have 't is like our Saviour would not have omitted to support his Church with some Hopes and Assurance of such Assistance if it were to have any Accomplishment before his second Coming when Israel shall come in again and with the Gentiles make up the Fulness of his glorious Kingdom But the Tenor of the New Testament is All that will live Godly in Jesus Christ shall suffer Persecution 2 Tim. III. In your Argument consider'd you tell us That no Man can fail of finding the way of Salvation that seeks it as he ought In my answer I take notice to you that the places
promoting his own Honour in the World and the Good of Souls What I beseech you now is the sum of this Argument but this Force is of great and 〈◊〉 use therefore the wise and benign Disposer of all things who will not leave Mankind unfurnish'd which it would be Impiety to say of competent Means for the promoting his Honour in the World and the Good of Souls has given somewhere a right to use it Let us try it now whether it will not do as well for Miracles Miracles are of great and necessary use as great and necessary at least as Force therefore the wise and benign Disposer of all things who will not leave Mankind unfurnish'd which it would be Impiety to say of competent Means for the promoting his Honour in the World and the Good of soâ—…ls has given somewhere a Power of Miracles I ask you when I in the Second Letter used your own Words apply'd to Miracles instead of Force would they not conclude then as well for Miracles as for Force For you must remember there was not then in all your Scheme one word of Miracles to supply the place of Force Force alone was mention'd Force alone was necessary all was laid on Force Nor was it easy to divine that Miracles should be taken in to mend the Defects of your Hypothesis which in your Answer to me you now have done and I easily allow it without holding you to any thing you have said and shall always do so For seeking Truth and not Triumph as you frequently suggest I shall always take your Hypothesis as you please to reform it and either imbrace it or shew you why I do not Let us see therefore whether this Argument will do any better now your Scheme is mended and you make Force or Miracles necessary If Force or Miracles are of great and necessary use for the promoting True Religion and the Salvation of Souls then it must be acknowledged that there is somewhere a Right to use the one or a Power to do the other for the advancing those Ends unless we will say what without Impiety cannot be said that the wise and beâ—…ign Disposer and Governor of all things has not furnish'd Mankind with competent Mean for the promoting his own Honour and the Good of Souls From whence it will follow if your Argument be good that where Men have not a Right to use Force there still we are to expect Miracles unless we will say c. Now where the Magistrates are not of the True Religion there by this part of your Scheme there is a Right in no body to use Force for if there were what need of Miracles as you tell us there was in the first Ages of Christianity to supply that Want Since the Magistrates who were of False Religions then were furnish'd with as much Right if that were enough as they are now So that where the Magistrates are of False Religions there you must upon your Principles affirm Miracles are still to supply the want of Force unless you will say what without Impiety cannot be said that the wise and benign Disposer and Governor of all things hath not furnish'd Mankind with competent Means for the promoting his own Honour in the World and the good of Soâ—…ls Now how far this will favour the Pretences of the Church of Rome to Miracles in the East and West-Indies and other Parts not under Popish Governments you were best consider This is evident that in all Countries where the True Religion is not received for the Religion of the State and supported and encouraged by the Laws of it you must allow Miracles to be as necessary now as ever they were any where in the World for the supply of the want of Force before the Magistrates were Christians And then what advantage your Doctrine gives to the Church of Rome is very visible For they like you supposing theirs the one only True Religion are supply'd by you with this Argument for it viz. That the True Religion will not prevail by its own Light and Strength without the assistance of Miracles or Authority Which are the competent Means which without Impiety it cannot be said that the wise and benign Disposer and Governor of all things has not furnish'd Mankind with From whence they will not think it hard to draw this Consequence that therefore the wise and benign Governor of all things has continued in their Church the Power of Miracles which yours does not so much as pretend to to supply the want of the Magistrate's Assistance where that cannot be had to make the True Religion prevail And if a Papist should press you with this Argument I would gladly know what you would reply to him Though thiâ—… be enough to make good what I said yet since I seek Truth more than my own Justification let us examine a little what 't is you here say of competent Means Competent Means you say are necessary but you think no Man will say all useful Means are so If you think you speak plain clear determin'd Sense when you used this good English Word Competent I pity you if you did it with Skill I send you to my Pagans and 〈◊〉 But this safe way of Talking though it be not altogether so clear yet it so often occurs in you that 't is hard to judg whether it be Art or Nature Now pray what do you mean by Mankind's being furnish'd with competent Means If it be such Means as any are prevail'd on by to imbrace the Truth that must save them Preaching is a competent Means for by Preaching alone without Force many are prevail'd on and become truly Christians and then your Force by your own Confession is not necessary If by competent you understand such Means by which all Men are prevail'd on or the majority to become truly Christians I fear your Force is no competent Means Which way ever you put 〈◊〉 you must acknowledg Mankind to be destitute of competent Means or your moderate Force not to be that necessary competent Means Since whatever Right the Magistrates may have had any where to use it where-ever it has not been used let the cause be what it will that kept thiâ—… Means from being used there the People have been destitute of that Means But you will think there is little reason to complain of Obscurity you having abundantly explain'd what you mean by competent in saying competent i. e. sufficient Means So that we have nothing to do but to find out what you mean by sufficient and the Meaning of that Word in your use of it you happily give us in these following What does any Man mean by sufficient Evidence but such as will certainly win Assent where-ever it is duly consider'd Apply this to your Means and then tell me whether your Force be such competent i. e. sufficient Means that it certainly produced imbracing the Trâ—… where-ever it was duly i. e. your way apply'd if it
Words of your Argument which you complain I have misrepresented and which you tell me runs thus When Men fly from the Means of right Information I ask you here who shall be Judg of those Means of right Information the Magistrate who joins Force with them to make them be 〈◊〉 to or no When you have answer'd that you will have resolv'd a great part of the Question What Magistrates are to use Force But that you may not complain again of my misrepresenting I must beg my Readers leave to set down your Argument at large in your own Words and all you say upon it When Men fly from the Means of a right Information and will not so much as consider how reasonable it is throughly and impartially to examine a Religion which they imbraced upon such Inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the matter and therefore with little or no Examination of the proper grounds of it What Humane Method can be used to bring them to act like Men in an Affair of such consequence and to make a wiser and more rational choice but that of laying such Penalties upon them as may ballance the weight of those Prejudices which inclined them to prefer a False Way before the True c. Now this Argument you tell me I pretend to retort in this manner And I say I see no other Means left taking the World as we now find it wherein the Magistrate never lays Penalties for Matters of Religion upon those of his own Church nor is it to be expected they ever should to make Men of the National Church any where throughly and impartially examine a Religion which they imbraced upon such Inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the matter and therefore with little or no examination of the proper Grounds of it And therefore I conclude the use of Force by Dissenters upon Conformists necessary I appeal to all the World whether this be not as just and natural a Conâ—…clusion as yours And you say you are well content the World should judg And when it determines that there is the same reason to say That to bring those who conform to the National Church to examine their Religion it is necessary for Dissenters who cannot possibly have the 〈◊〉 Power because the National Church has that 〈◊〉 its side and cannot be National without it to use Force upon Conformists As there is to say That where the National Church is the True Church there to bring Dissenters as I call them to examine their Religion it is necessary for the Magistrate who has the Coactive Power to lay moderate Penalties upon them for dissenting You say when the World determines thus you will never pretend any more to judg what is reasonable in any case what soever For you doubt not but you may safely presume that the World will easily admit these two things 1. That though it be very fit and desirable that all that are of the true Religion should understand the true Grounds of it that so they may be the better able both to defend themselves against the assaults of Seducers and to reduce such as are out of the Way yet this is not strictly necessary to their Salvation Because Experience shews as far as Men are capable to judg of such Matters that many do 〈◊〉 believe and profess the true Religion and conscientiously practise the Duties of it who yet do not understand the true Grounds upon which it challenges their Belief And no Man doubts but who soever does so believe profess and practise the True Religion if he perseveres to the end shall certainly attain Salvation by it 2. That how much soever iâ—… concerns those who reject the true Religion whom I may call Dissenters if I please to examine and consider why they do so and how needful soever Penalties may be to bring them to this it is however â—…tterly unreasonable that such as have not the Coactive Power should take upon them to inslict Penalties for that purpose Because as that is not consistent with Order and Government which cannot stand where private Persons are permitted to usurp the Coactive Power So there is nothing more manifest than that the prejudice which is done to Religion and to the Interest of Mens Souls by destroying Government does infinitely outweigh any good that can possibly be done by that which destroys it And whoever admits and considers these things you say you are very secure will be far enough from admitting that there is any Parity of Reason in the Cases we here speak of or that mine is as just and natural a Conclusion as yours The sum of what you say amounts to thus much Men being apt to take up their Religion upon Inducements that ought to have no sway at all in the Matter and so with little or no Examination of the Grounds of it therefore Penalties are necessary to be laid on them to make them throughly and impartially examine But yet Penalties need not be laid on Conformists in England to make them examine because they and you believe yours to be the true Religion Though it must be laid on Presbyterians and Independents c. to make them examine though they believe theirs to be the true Religion because you believe it not to be so But you give another very substantial Reason why Penalties cannot be laid on Conformists to make them examine and that is because the National Church has the Coactive Power on its side and therefore they have no need of Penalties to make them examine The National Church of France too has the Co-active Power on its side and therefore they who are of it have no need of Penalties any of them to make them examine If your Argument be good that Men take up their Religions upon wrong Inducements and without due Examination of the proper Grounds of it and that therefore they have need of Penalties to be laid on them to make them examine as they ought the Grounds of their Religion You must confess there are some in the Church of England to whom Penalties are necessary Unless you will affirm that all who are in the Communion of the Church of England have so examin'd But that I think you will not do however you indeavour to palliate their Ignorance and Negligence in this matter There being therefore a need of Penalties I say 't is as necessary that Presbyterians should lay Penalties on the Conformists of the Church of England to make them examine as for the Church of England to lay Penalties on the Presbyterians to make them do so For they each equally believe their Religion to be true and we suppose on both sides there are those who have not duly examin'd But here you think you have a sure advantage by saying it is not consistent with the Order of Government and so is impracticable I easily grant it But is yours more practicable When you can make
your way practicable for the end for which you pretend it necessary viz. to make all who have taken up their Religion upon such Inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the Matter to examine throughly and impartially the proper grounds of it When I say you can shew your way practicable to this end you will have clear'd it of one main Objection and convinc'd the World that yours is a more just and natural Conclusion than mine If your Cause were capable of any other defence I suppose we should not have had so long and elaborate an Answer as you have given us in this Paragraph which at last bottoms only on these two things 1. That there is in you or those of your Church some Approaches towards Insallibility in your Belief that your Religion is true which is not to be allow'd those of other Churches in the Belief of theirs 2. That it is enough if any one does but conform to it and remain in the Communion of your Church Or else one would think there should be as much need for Conformists too of your Church to examine the Grounds of their Religion as for any others To understand the true Grounds of the True Religion is not you say strictly necessary to Salvation Yet I think you will not deny but it is as strictly necessary to Salvation as it is to conform to a National Church in all those things it imposes some whereof are not necessary to Salvation some whereof are acknowledg'd by all to be indifferent and some whereof to some conscientious Men who thereupon decline Communion appear unsound or unlawful If not being strictly necessary to Salvation will excuse from Penalties in the one case why will it not in the other And now I shall excuse the World from determining my Conclusion to be as natural as yours For 't is pity so reasonable a Disputant as you are should take so desperate a Resolution as never to pretend any more to judg what is reasonable in any case what soever Whether you have proved that Force used by the Magistrate be a Means prescrib'd by God to procure the Gift of Faith from him which is all you say in the next Paragraph others must judg In that following you quote these Words of mine If all the Means God has appointed to make Men hear and consider be Exhortation in season and out of season c. together with Prayer for them and the Example of Meekness and a good Life this is all ought to be done whether they will hear or whether they will forbear To which you thus reply But if these be not all the Means God has appointed then these things are not all that ought to be done But if I ask you How do you know that this is not all God has appointed you have nothing to answer to bring it to your present purpose but that you know it by the Light of Nature For all you say is but this That by the Light of Nature you know Force to be useful and necessary to bring Men into the way of Salvation By the Light of Nature you know the Magistrate has a Commission to use Force to that purpose And by the same Light of Nature you know that Miracles were appointed to supply the want of Force till the Magistrates were Christians I imagine Sir you would scarce have thought this a reasonable Answer if you had taken notice of my Words in the same Paragraph immediately preceding those you have cited Which that you may see the Scope of my Argument I will here trouble you with again and they are these It is not for you and me out of an Imagination that they may be useful or are necessary to prescribe Means in the great mysterious Work of Salvation other than what God himself has directed God has appointed Force as useful and necessary and therefore it is to be used is a way of Arguing becoming the Ignorance and Humility of poor Creatures But I think Force useful or necessary and therefore it is to be used has methinks a little too much Presumption in it You ask what Means is there left None say I to be used by Man but what God himself has directed in the Scriptures wherein are contained all the Means and Methods of Salvation Faith is the Gift of God And we are not to use any other Means to procure this Gift to any one but what God himself has prescribed If he has prescribed appointed that any should be forced to hear those who tell them they have mistaken their way and offer to 〈◊〉 then the right and that they should be 〈◊〉 by the Magistrate if they did not 't will be past doubt it is to be made 〈◊〉 of But till that can be done 't will be in vain to say what other Means is there left My Argument here lies plainly in this That all the Means and Methods of Salvation are contain'd in the Scripture Which either you were to have deny'd or else have 〈◊〉 where it was in Scripture that Force was appointed But instead of that you tell us that God appointed Miracles in the beginning of the Gospel And though when these 〈◊〉 the Means I mention were all the Ministers had left yet this proves not that the Magistrate was not to use Force Your Words are As to the first Spreaders of the Gospel it has already been shown that God appointed other Means besides these for them to use to â—…nduce Men to hear and consider And though when those extraordinary Means ceased these Means which I mention viz. Preaching c. were the only Means left to the 〈◊〉 of the Gospel yet that is no Proof that the Magistrate â—…hen he became Christian could not lawfully 〈◊〉 such Means as his Station 〈◊〉 him to 〈◊〉 when they became 〈◊〉 I said in 〈◊〉 words No Means was to be used by MAN but what God himself has directed in the Scripture And you answer This is no Proof that the Christian Magistrate may not use Force Perhaps when They so peremptorily interpose their decisive Decreas in the Business of Salvation establish Religions by Laws and Penalties with what Articles Creeds Ceremonies and Discipline they think fit for this we see done almost in all Countries when they force Men to bear those and those only who by their Authority are chosen and allow'd 〈◊〉 Men they have mistaken their way and offer to shew them the right it may be thought necessary to prove Magistrates to be MEN. If that needs no Proof what I said needs some other Answer But let us examine a little the Parts of what you here say As to the first Spreaders of the Gospel say you it has already been those that God appointed other Means besides Exhortation in season and out of season Prayer and the Example of a good Life for them to use to induce Men to hear and consider What were those other Means To that you answer
to be necessary Means will not be allow'd by you to be pertinent in a debate about necessary Means when possibly those very Neglects may serve to make other Means seem requisite which really are not so Yet if you are not of those who will never think any such Discourse pertinent you will allow me to mind you of it again as not impertinent in answer to your last Letter wherein you so often tell us of the sufficient Provision made for Instruction For wherever the Neglect be it can â—…arce be said there is sufficient Provision made for Instruction in a Christian Country where great numbers of those who are in the Communion of the National Church are grosly ignorant of the Grounds of the Christian Religion And I ask you whether it be in respect of such Conformists you say as you do in the same Paragraph That when the best Provision is made that can be for the Instruction of the People you fear a great part of them will still need some moderate Penalties to bring them to hear and receive Instruction But what if all the means that can be not used for their Instruction That there are Neglects of this kind you will I suppose take the word of a Reverend Prelate of our Church who thought he could not better shew his Good-will to the Clergy than by a seasonable Discourse of the Pastoral Care to câ—…re that Neglect for the future There he tells you that Ministers should watch over and seed their Flock and not enjoy their Benesices as Farms c. Which Reproach says he whatever We may be our Church is free of which he proves by the Stipulation and Covenant they make with Christ that they will never cease their Labour Care and Diligence till they have done all that lieth in them according to their bounden Duty towards all such as are or should be committed to their Care to bring them to a Ripeness of age in Christ. And a Page or two after having repeated part of the Promise made by those who take Orders he adds In this is expressed the so much NEGLECTED but so necessary Duty which Incumbents owe their Flock in a private way visiting instracting and admonishing which is one of the most useful and important Parts of their Duty how generally socuer it may be disused or forgetten P. 187. He says Every Priest that minds his Duty will find that no Part of it is so useful as Catechistical Discourses by means whereof his People will understand all his Sermons the better when they have once had a clear Notion of all those Terms that must run through them for those not being understood renders them all unintelligible Another Part of the Priest's Duty he tells you is with relation to them that are without who are of the side of the Church of Rome or among the Dissenters Other Churches and Bodies are noted for their Zâ—…al in making Proselytes for their 〈◊〉 Endeavours as well as their unlawful Methods in it They reckoning perhaps that all will be 〈◊〉 by the increasing their PARTY which is the true Name of making Converts except they become at the same time good Men as well as Votaries to a Side or Cause We are certainly very REMISS in this of both hands Little pains is taken to gain either upon Papists or Nonconformists The LAW HAS BEEN SO MUCH TRUSTED TO that that Method only was thought sure it was much valued and others at the same time as much NEGLECTED And whereas at first WITHOUT FORCE OR VIOLENCE in forty Years time Popery from being the prevailing Religion was reduced to a bandful we have now in above twice that number of Years made very little Progress c. Perhaps here again you will tell me you do not see how this is pertinent to the present Question Which that you may see give me leave to put you in mind that neither you nor any body else can pretend Force necessary till all the Means of Perswasion have been used and nothing neglâ—…ted that can be done by all the softer Ways of Application And since it is your own Doctrine that Force is not lawful unless where it iâ—… necessary the Magistrate upon your Principles can neither lawfully use Force nor the Ministers of any National Church plead for it any where but where they themselves have first done their Duties A Draught whereof aâ—…apted to our present Circumstances we have in the newly publish'd Discours of the Pastoral Care And he that shall press the use of Force as necessary before he can answer it to himself and the World that those who have taken on them the care of Souls have performed their Duties were best consider whether he does not draw up an Accusation against the Men of that Holy Order or against the Magistrate who suffers them to neglect any part of their Duty For whilst what that Learned Bishop in the Passages above cited and in other places mentions is neglected it cannot be said that no other Means but Force is lest Those which are on all hands acknowledg necessary and useful Means not having yet been made use of To vindicate your Method from Novelty you tell me 't is as old as St. Austin Whatever he says in the place you quote it shews only his Opinion but not that it was ever used Therefore to shew it not to be new in practice you add that yon think it has been made use of by all those Magistrates who having made all requisite Provisions for the instructing their People in the Truth have likewise requir'd them under convenient Penalties to imbrace it Which is as much as to say that those Magistrates who used your Method did use your Method And that certainly you may think safely and without fear of being gainsaid But now I will tell you what I think in my turn And that is if you could have found any Magistrates who had made use of your Method as well as you think you have found a Divine that approves of it you would have named those Magistrates as forwardly as you do St. Austin If I think amiss pray correct me yet and name them That which makes me imagine you will hardly find any Examples of it is what I there said in these Words All other Law-makers have constantly taken this Method that where any thing was to be amended the Fault was first declared and then Penalties denounced against all those who after a time set should be found guilty of it This the common Sense of Mankind and the very Reason of Laws which are intended not for Punishment but Correction has made so plain that the subtilest and most refined Law-makers have not gone out of this Course nor have the most ignorant and barbarous Nations mist it But you have out-done Solon and Lycurgus Moses and our Saviour and are resolved to be a Law-maker of a Way by your self 'T is an old and obsolete Way and will not serve
necessary Means of Force in the way you contend for reaches no farther than to bring Men to a bare outward Conformity to the Church of England wherein you can â—…dately affirm that it is presumable that all that are of it are so upon Reason and Conviction I suppose there needs no more to be said to convince the World what Party you write for The Party you write for is God you say But if all you have said aims or amounts to nothing more than that the Church of England as now establish'd by Law in its Doctrines Ceremonies and Discipline should be supported by the Power of the Magistrate and Men by Force be driven into it I fear the World will think you have very narrow Thoughts of God or that that is not the Party you write for 'T is true you all along speak of bringing Men to the True Religion But to evidence to you that by the one only True Religion you mean only that of the Church of England I tell you that upon your Principles you cannot name any other Church now in the World and I again demand of you to do it for the promoting whereof or punishing Dissenters from it the Magistrate has the same Right to use Force as you pretend he has here in England Till you therefore name some such other True Church and True Religion besides that of England your saying that God is the Party you write for will rather shew that you make bold with his Name than that you do not write for another Party You say too you write not for any Party but the Soâ—…s of Men. You write indeed and contend earnestly that Men should be brought into an outward Conformity to the Church of England But that they imbrace that Profession upon Reason and Conviction you are content to have it presumable without any farther Enquiry or Examination And those who are once in the outward Communion of the National Church however ignorant or irreligious they are you leave there 〈◊〉 by your only competent Means Force without which you tell us the True Religion by its own Light and Strength is not able to prevail against Mens Lusts and the Corruption of Nature so as to be consider'd as it ought and heartily imbraced And this drop'd not from your Pen by chance But you professedly make Excuses for those of the National Religion who are ignorant of the Grounds of it And give us Reasons why Force cannot be used to those who outwardly conform to make them consider so as sincerely to imbrace believe and obey the Truth that must save them But the â—…verend Author of the Pastoral Care tell you PARTY is the true Name of making Converts except they become at the same time good Men. If the use of Force be necessary for the Salvation of Souls and Mens Souls be the Party you write for you will be suspected to have betrayed your Party if your Method and necessary Means of Salvation reach no farther than to bring Men to outward Conformity though to the True Church and after that abandons them to their Lusts and depraved Natures destitute of the help of Force your necessary and competent Means of Salvation This way of managing the Matter whatever you intend â—…ms rather in the Fitness of it to be for another Party But since you assure us you write for nothing but God and Mens Souls it can only be said you had a good Intention but ill Luck since your Scheme put into the Language of the Country will sit any National Church and Clergy in the World that can but suppose it self the True and that I presume none of them will fail to do You were more than ordinary reserv'd and gracious when you tell me That what Party I write for you will not undertake to say But having told me that my Letter tends to the promoting of 〈◊〉 in Religion you thought 't is like that was sufficient to shew the Party I write for and so you might safely end your Letter with Words that looked like civil But that you may another time be a little better informed what Party I write for I will tell you They are those who in every Nation â—…ear God 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and are accepted with him and not those who in every Nation are zealous for Humane Constitutions cry up nothing so much as outward Conâ—…ormity to the National Religion and are accepted by those who are the Promoters of it Those that I write for are those who according to the Light of their own Conâ—…ences are every-where in earnest in Matters of their own Salvation without any desire to impose on others A Party so seldom favour'd by any of the Powers or Sects of the World A Party that has so few Preferments to bestow so few 〈◊〉 to reward the â—…ndeavours of any one who appears for it that I conclude I shall easily be believ'd when I say that neither Hopes of Preferment nor a Design to recommend my self to those I live amongst has 〈◊〉 my Understanding or misled me in my Undertaking So much Truth as serves the turn of any particular Church and can be accommodated to the narrow Interest of some Humane Constitution is indeed often received with applause and the Publisher finds his account in it But I think I may say Truth in its full Latitude of those generous Principles of the Gospel which so much recommend and inculcate universal Charity and a Freedom from the Inventions and Impositions of Men in the things of God has so seldom had a fair and favourable Hearing any where that he must be very ignorant of the History and Nature of Man however dignified and distinguish'd who proposes to himself any secular Advantage by writing for her at that rate As to your Request in the Close of your Letter I hope this will satisfy you that you might have spar'd it And you with the rest of the World will see that all I 〈◊〉 in my former Letter was so true that you need not have given me any caution for the future As to the 〈◊〉 of what I say I doubt whether I shall please you Because I find by your last Letter that what is brought by me to shew the Weakness Absurdities or 〈◊〉 of what you write you are very apt to call 〈◊〉 and nothing to the purpose You must pardon me therefore if I have endeavour'd more to please other Readers than you in that Point I hope they will find in what I have said not much besides the matter But to a Man who supposing himself in the right builds all upon that Supposition and takes it for an Injury to have that Privilege deny'd him To a Man who would soveraignly decide for all the World what is the True Religion and thereby impower what Magistrates he thinks fit and what not to use Force To 〈◊〉 a Man not to seem 〈◊〉 would be really to be so This makes me pleas'd with your Reply to so many
can it be known that ever sufficient Evidence was tender'd to such a Dissenter to prove that what he rejects is a part of that one only true Religion which unless he be of he cannot be saved Or indeed how can it be known that any Dissenter rejects that one only true Religion when being punished barely for not conforming he is never asked what part it is he dissents from or rejects and so it may be some of those things which I imagine will always want sufficient Evidence to prove them to be Parts of that only one true Religion without the hearty imbracing whereof no Man can be saved CHAP. IV. What Degrees of Punishment HOW much soever you have endeavoured to reform the Doctrine of Persecution to make it serve your turn and give it the Colour of Care and Zeal for the true Religion in the Country where alone you are concern'd it should be made use of yet you have laboured in vain and done no more but given the old Engine a new Varnish to set it off the better and make it look less frightful For by what has been said in the foregoing Chapters I think it will appear that if any Magistrate have Power to punish Men in Matters of Religion all have and that Dissenters from the National Religion must be punished every where or no where The horrid Cruelties that in all Ages and of late in our View have been committed under the Name and upon the Account of Religion give so just an Offence and Abhorrence to all who have any remains not only of Religion but Humanity left that the World is ashamed to own it This Objection therefore as much as Words or Professions can do you have laboured to fence against and to exempt your Design from the Suspition of any Severities you take Care in every Page almost to let us hear of moderate Force moderate Penalties but all in vain and I doubt not but when this part too is examined it will appear that as you neither have nor can limit the Power of punishing to any distinct sort of Magistrates nor exempt from Punishment the Dissenters from any National Religion So neither have nor can you limit the Punishment to any Degree short of the highest if you will use Punishments at all in matters of Religion What you have done in this Point besides giving us good Words I will now examine You tell me I have taken a Liberty which will need Pardon because I say ` You have plainly yielded the Question by owning `those greater Severities to be improper and unsit But if I shall make it out that those are as proper and sit as your moderate Penalties and that if you will use one you must come to the other as will appear from what you your self say whatever you may think I shall not imagine other Readers will conclude I have taken too great a Liberty or shall much need Pardon For if as you say in the next Page Authority may reasonably and justly use some Degrees of Force where it is needful I say they may also use any Degree of Force where it is needful Now upon your Grounds Fire and Sword tormenting and undoing and those other Punishments which you condemn will be needful even to Torments of the highest Severity and be as necessary as those moderate Penalties which you will not name For I ask you to what Purpose do you use any Degree of Force Is it to prevail with Men to do something that is in their Power or that is not The latter I suppose you will not say till your Love of Force is so increased that you shall think it necessary to be made use of to produce Impossibilities If Force then be to be used only to bring Men to do what is in their Power what is the Necessity you assign of it only this as I remember viz. that when gentle Admonitions and earnest Intreaties will not prevail what other means is there left but Force And I upon the same Ground reply If lesser Degrees of Force will not prevail what other means is there left but greater If the lowest Degree of Force be necessary where gentler means will not prevail because there is no other means left higher Degrees of Force are necessary where lower will not prevail for the same Reason Unless you will say all Degrees of Force work alike and that lower Penalties prevail as much on Men as greater and will equally bring them to do what is in their Power If so a Phlip on the Forehead or a Farthing Mulct may be Penalty enough to bring Men to what you propose But if you shall laugh at these as being for their Smalness insufficient and therefore will think it necessary to increase them I say where-ever Experience shews any Degree of Force to be insufficient to prevail there will be still the same necessity to increase it For where-ever the End is necessary and Force is the means the only means left to procure it both which you suppose in our Case there it will be found always necessary to increase the Degrees of Force where the lower prove ineffectual as well till you come to the highest as when you begin with the lowest So that in your present Case I do not wonder you use so many Shifts as I shall shew by and by you do to decline naming the highest Degree of what you call moderate If any Degree be necessary you cannot assign any one condemn it in Words as much as you please which may not be so and which you must not come to the Use of If there be no such Necessity of Force as will justify those higher Degrees of it which are Severities you condemn neither will it justify the Use of your lower Degrees If as you tell us false Religions prevail against the true merely by the Advantage they have in the Corruption and Pravity of humane Nature left to it self unbridled by Authority If the not receiving the true Religion be a Mark and Effect merely of the Prevalency of the Corruption of humane Nature may not nay must not the Magistrate if less will not do use his â—…most Force to bring Men to the true Religion his Force being given him to suppress that Corruption especially since you give it for a Measure of the Force to be used that it must be so much as without which ordinarily they will not imbrace the Truth that must save them What ordinarily signifies here to make any determinate Measure is hard to guess but signify it what it will so much Force must be used as without which Men will not imbrace the Truth which if it signify any thing intelligible requires that where lower Degrees will not do greater must be used till you come to what will ordinarily do but what that ordinarily is no Man can tell If one Man will not be wrought on by as little Force as another must not greater Degrees of Force be