Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
religion_n	church_n	papist_n	protestant_n	3,430	5	8.0447	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A39570	The bishop busied beside the business, or, That eminent overseer, Dr. John Gauden, Bishop of Exeter, so eminently overseen as to wound his own cause well nigh to death with his own weapon in his late so super-eminently-applauded appearance for the [brace] liberty of tender consciences, legitimacy of solemn swearings, entituled, A discourse concerning publick oaths, and the lawfulness of swearing in judicial proceedings, in order to answer the scruples of the Quakers ... / by Samuel Fisher ...	Fisher, Samuel, 1605-1665.	1662 (1662)	Wing F1051; ESTC R37345	155,556	170

against his own and his Brethrens present Practice who before they have used all those rational and Religious means which they then used in Meekness of Wisdom to convince them of any Error or mistake have given their consent by Bill to the ruining of the Quakers and also before the passing of the said Bill have permitted their Apparitors and other Officers who have hunted Poor Innocents from place to place as it were on purpose to weary them out like Tormentors by summoning them to Courts far remote from each other and that onely for either not coming to the Publick Place of Worship or for not paying of Mortuaries Smoak-Pennies Peter-pence Easter Reckonings with other such like spiritual Impositions which seeing we find them not mentioned at all in the Scriptures nor practiced among Primitive Christians whether they are not meerly mens Traditions and Inventions yea and Relicks of the Church of Rome we desire to be informed by the Bishop in all plainness if he judges they are not Bish. Or secondly by rationall convincing them of their Error which is a work of time and dexterity not to be done on the suddain though very worthy to bear a part in the Discipline of the Church which should require of every one a Reason why they differ from and forsake the establisht Religion Answ. We appeal to the Bishop himself where ever there hath been as yet any such rational proceedings of the Bishops with us in order to the convincing us of Error with such time and dexterity as he speakes of Yea rather have they not run upon us on the suddain without using any of there own prescribed remedies without exercising that which he calls a part of the Discipline of the Church without requiring as they say they ought to do of every one a reason why we differ from them in Religion Although we have been alwayes ready to render not only to them but to every one that asketh us a reason of our Faith and Practice but that the Deficiency hath been ever on their part witness the Bishops own words Pag. 7. where he saith of himself at least who hath had as much to do with the Quakers as any one of them all hath had I never conversed with any of their Persons and pag. 4. With the Quakers I have so little Correspondency that I have not any acquaintance not knowing any of that way by face or name or so much as one hours conversation But the Bishop who hath a Plaister ready at hand to apply to every wound that he gives himself unawares by his unwary conflicts with the Quakers hath one Pittiful Put-off for this oversight also for saith he in the same place of the Quakers Bish. They are a Generation of People so Supercilious or so shie that they are scarce Sociable or accessible speaking much in their Conventicles behind mens backs but seldom arguing any thing in presence of those that are best able to answer or satisfie them Answ. To which we reply that it is very well known that they are a People not so Supercilious or so shie as he would make them for Shieness Superciliousness Unsociableness Unaccessibleness is the usual Deportment of the Bishops themselves towards the Quakers whom while they seem to themselves to be some sons of Anak they look upon as Grashoppers with disdain whose Greatness will scarce stoop to entertain any conference with the Poor silly Quakers as he terms them in order to their Conviction of the Errors they deem them to be in although the Holy Men and Ancient Fathers of the Church above named as this Bishop himself testifies of them did not at any time so despise the meanest of any Christians outward Condition or the Fatuity of their Opinions as not to set a great value on their Souls for whom Christ dyed Neither do the Quakers seek Corners to speak in behind mens backs as he falsely charges them with the doing of in their Conventicles which are places open to all comers but appear as publickly as possibly they can in their Testimony to the Truth of which they are not ashamed neither do they refuse to argue any thing but rather offer often to argue every thing in presence of those even the Bishops themselves who judge themselves best able to answer or satisfie them who are indeed so wise in their own eyes and prudent in their own sight as to take upon them to impose things to be believed and done on seventy-times seven men that are able were the Bishops as willing to condescend by word of mouth to render their reasons for them to render a sufficient reason to the contrary By the Bishops own prescription then of this second Remedy as well as of the first Sith in this second which he commends he is found defective while he Condemns the first which alone he is found active in he stands altogether Condemned by himself not onely in what he Condemns but in what he ●…wes Bish. Or thirdly by changing the Established Lawes for their sake which is not for the Piety Prudence Honour and safety of a Nation and Church when it judgeth its Constitutions to be Religious Righteous and convenient Answ. This were an effectuall way to end and mend all indeed to change the Lawes Established which are for the Establishing of Persecution for the sake of the Persecuted sufferers that dissent out of Tenderness of Conscience and to Establish in their stead such as allow a Liberty to all Religions while they keep Righteousness and Peace amongst each other in outward matters whether Ethnicks Turks Iewes Papists or Protestants of what Form or Profession soever The Civil Power interposing between them all to no other end then the bare preserving of the Civil Peace and of equity innocency honesty and truth in their dealings each with other in meer externall affaires Yea doubless no Nation will ever stand firm in the time that is now to come till their Foundation be that Love that allowes to all men the same Liberty of their Consciences which each man desires to enjoy himself till all People be permitted to walk in the Name of his God and the Lords own People to walk in the Name of the Lord their God without any molestation or prohibition for Conscience being that truly tender part in which those onely excepted by the Bishop himself which being wholly resolved into suffering Principles cannot make resistance all others though never so Conformable through fear for a timè being trod upon will turn again and when they can relieve themselves from the heavy hands of their Oppressors And besides all those mischievous and ill consequences of War which ariseth mostly about Religion 't is the express command of Christ which what Nation soever violates will first or last dearly rue their violation of it Mat. 13. that the Tares viz. false worshippers should stand and be let alone though not in the Garden or true Church yet at least in the Field which

offending of a good Conscience we can in no wise submit to so that whatever he would seem to grant yet all the Liberty to the utmost he is really willing should be granted us is only his and his Brethrens intimating to us what is their mind and Iudgement in Religious matters and the Enacting of some outward Law to require our Conformity upon the not yielding of which we are to be supprest by Coercions and Penalties as resisters of softer applications as affronters of setled Religion as obstructers of the proceedings of Iustice by Established Lawes And this is that cuncta prius tentanda which he is for all the appeal that he will allow we being now in his judgement unexcusable because we cannot see with his ey●…s and this is his Quid amplius peteram what could I have done more and these are all the Lenitives he affords us before Lancings and Fomentations before incisions or amputations and no other remedy before rigor and severity so that now upon meer non-submission to his and his Brethrens Counsell which yet was never at all ministred to us any other way then in this his book thrust forth above a month after the Date of the late sharp Act against us it is not to be reckoned any more the scratch of a Petty Opinion but the Gangreen of an obstinate and rebellions humour which forceth the abscision under pretence of preventing a deadly Contagion to the whole body But blessed be the Lord they who are made partakers of his saving health as we are through his goodness and mercy need none of these Episcopall paternal Remedies for such are under the Cure of the great Shepherd Overseer or Bishop of their Souls who will make the wrath of men turn to his praise and the remainder of it will then restrain Bish. Again it is yet further manifested what the Bishop intends by Liberty and softer Applications unto dissenters from the Religion established by outwara Lawes in the next page wherein he declares how he would have them as no better then Layers of the Fou●…dations of Distractions Division Destruction and Confusion to be deprived of all publick Countenance and Encouragement and of the protection of the Lawes of the Favour of Princes and not only of publick Maintenance and Honour but also of the use of publick Churches as he calls them and Oratories of publick Offices and Employments of Honour and Authority forreign and domestick Eclesiastical Civil and Military and all such like advantages which he would have appropriated only to themselves as their proper Honoraries who can Conform to whatsoever Religion by Law may be established Answ. As for the Advantages of publick Maintenance and Honour and those Ecclesiastical Offices Imployments and Preferments which pertain to those publick Places which they call Churches we neither look nor seek after them but leave them to those Ministers who look more after the Eleece then the Flock unto whom the Hon●…s is more desireable then the Onus and the Benefice prized beyond the Office of the Ministry Nevertheless sith the Bishop would have Dissenters deprived not only of these Ecclesiastial but of all other Civil Advantages also we would have him take notice that the Deprivations of all these Priviledges were the Flagellant methods of those most Tyrannous Times which by the Bishops own Confession in his Words before cited to his own Shame Confutation and Confusion for asmuch as he would have the same used and yet would seem to be against them too had nothing of Reason Law or Religion to support them Bish. The Bishop saith further in the next Words thus With these outward Advantages added to that Internal Power of Truth and Holiness which are in the established Religion it may as I think not only be happily supported but easily prevaile against all Factions and feeble Opposition unless the scandal negligence levity and luxury of its Ministers Bishops Presbyters and Professors overthrow it by casting such inmoral disgraces upon it as make People disbelieve and abhorr both it and them as was in the Case of Elies Sons Answ. That is a very weak and crasie Religion indeed which hath not internal Power of Truth and Holiness enough in it to support it and that against but feeble Opposition without the addition of outward Force and the other External Helps 〈◊〉 Advantages before mentioned Whether the Bishops Religion be such a feeble Form or no we leave them to consider and examine but this we are sure of that the true Religion not only hath been and ever will be supported and will prevail without these Advantages and Priviledges but also in the midst of as deep Disadvantages and Deprivations Witness 2. Cor. 4. 8 9. where the Apostle sayes We are troubled on every side yet not Distressed Perplexed but not in despaire Persecuted but not forsaken Cast down but not destroyed 2 Cor. 6. 4 ●… c. in all things approving our selves as the Ministers of God in much Patience in Afflictions in Necessities in Distresses in Stripes in Imprisonments in Tumults c. by Honour and Dishonour by Evil Report and Good Report as Deceivers yet True as Unknown yet well Known as Dying yet behold we Live as Chastened yet not Killed as Sorrowful yet alwayes re●…oycing as Poor yet making many Rich as having nothing yet possessing all things Secondly We observe that the Bishop is very doubtful jealous and fearful and that not altogether surely without a Cause least the Scandal Negligence Levity and Luxury of the Bishops themselves and of the Ministers Presbyters and Professors of it should overthrow their Religion now established But if it had that Internal Power of Truth and Holiness in it as he pretends it hath he need not fear its being disgraced disbelieved abhorred and overthrown by the Wickedness of its own Ministers as he doubts theirs may for the Truth will be honoured believed loved and established ma●…gre not only the Contradictions of Sinners and the Wickedness of all such Bishops Ministers Presbyters and Professors that oppose it but also if all those that profess and promote it in its Power and not in empty Formes only as others do should as God Forbid and as they are never likely at all to do become as Wicked and Negligent as any Prelatical Ministers are and as themselves have once been Faithful and Diligent in the service of it for the true and Pure Religion which is undefiled before God whereby its Children of whom alone its justified are kept unspotted from the World stands not upon the Sandy and Slippery Foundation of outward props and advantages but upon the inward Principle of Gods Power which is the Power of an endless life But the Children of such Religions as how fair so ever they seem before men stand not on that Rock of Ages and are no better stablished then on the outside frivolous Forms of mens Inventions derived downward by Tradition from fore-Fathers without that inward Power of the endless Life

egregiously in their undertakings as to loose themselves in ipso limine and it 's ill stumbling at the threshold and as canis festinans coecos parit catulos to bring forth such blind businesses in their hast as when God and Man come to call them to account they must assuredly repent of by leisure their eyes though too late being enlightned then to see how they kept neither the pure Lawes of God nor those very Laws and Acts of men neither which they pretend to act by Fourthly We observe that the Bishop likens them to the Devil who first search mens hearts and then torment them in their Estates and Liberties only because they are not so wise or of the same perswasion with themselves little dreaming how far forth in so doing he likens himself to the Devil unawares as whether consequentially he doth not yea or nay we appeal to himself while in the next Words he says That some little pecuniary mulct for every Lord's days absence from the publick Church or Assembly may be justly t●…ld as a mark of publick dislike upon Dissenters and Seperaters from the established Religion And if he deems he sufficiently salves this sore by that di●…initive manner of Speech in which he speaks concerning the 〈◊〉 or Fining of men in their Estares ●…ith he would have but some little mulct or Fine of one or two shillings for every Lords Day Answ. Let him remember that as gradus non ●…riant 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 degrees do in no wise vary the Nature of any case the spoiting a ma●… of a penny being contrary to his enjoyment of his Estate and a Tormenting him therein as truly and really though not so 〈◊〉 not so abundantly as the spoiling him of a pound so secondly two shillings a week as if not p●…id exposes a man to Prison and so to be ●…mented as to his Liberty so if paid amounts to more then five pound●… throughout the year and that is more then many conscientions Persons have in all to live on Object Or if secondly he shall say we wrong him in his senc●… because it is not for their private difference in iudgement which possibly saith he is not their fault but for their publick deformity in practice that I would have them so punisht Answ. We Reply this will not at all relieve him from but subject him more to the just censure of contradiction to himself Sith i●… private difference in judgement be not the dissenters own fault then his open practising according thereunto is so far from being his fault that it is praised and commended as good in the Quakers by the Bishop himself pag. 10. and so it were rather a fault in him to do otherwise all men yeelding together with himself that consotentia errans obligat an Erring conscience binds to Act according to its Evidence till it be further or more truly enlightened And secondly if it be not his own fault then if he be punisht it must be either for the f●…lt of some other which is not just or which is far more unjust for that which is no fault at all Fifthly We observe by the Bishops own confession that the dissenters may be as honest and sincere in the sight of God as the Imposors and this we yield to be indeed as true as that way of imposing under outward penalties on mens Consciences about Religion is a way Universally false But this of the Bishop may serve however as a Caution to himself and to all imposers upon mens Consciences in Religions ●…ters to beware least they be found fighters against God un●…wares to themselves as assuredly they will be if they be found Persecutors of the Innocent and of such as are more sincere than themselves ●…oreover it yet further appears how little Liberty that is which the Bishop notwithstanding his fair pretences is willing to have allowed by these woeds of his viz. Bish. Onely such an Arbitrary connivance and conditional indulgence 〈◊〉 gives no trouble for their private and untrouble some Opinions while they are kept within their Breasts and Closets or in their private houses and families without any convention of strangers to them and so as to be kept within Parochial bounds or to such a number of Persons c. But for dissenters to have multitudinous Conventicles as it were mustering of their Forces when where and as many as they please cannot be safe for thereby they not only affront the Religion established but confirm each other in their Opinion as char-coals in heaps they more kindle and enflame each other by their numbers c. Answ. We never knew Truth yet untroublesome to a truthless faithless and Hypocritical Generation though it 's justified and witnessed to be the most peaceable thing in all the World by its own Children But are not the Multitudinous Meetings Conventions and Mustenings together of Rude Wild Wicked People to Drinking and Revellings Wakes and Whitsun-ales May-games and Morrice-dancings Fencings and Cudgel-playings Cock-fightings and Bear-baitings Bowlings and other Games Carding Dicing Dancing Vain-shewes Sights and Stage playes in the Streets Markets and Faires Iuglers Puppets Iack Puddings where they kindle and enflame one another in Lust Want●…nness and Wickedness as char-coals in heaps by their numbers and thrive in Swearing Whoredom Dissoluteness and all manner of Debaue●…ery and Prophaness much more inconsistant with the Nations Safety disturbing its Peace which if ever it be true must be the effect and fruit of Righteousness affronting your established Religion unless it be a Religion that allows all Ir-religion then for the People that fear the Lord to meet together to worship God in Spirit and Truth and to Preach up the Power of Godliness that would bring people out of all these ungodly courses to that Grace of God in themselves that teaches to live Godly Righteously and Soberly in this World Yet where do we find the Bishops and the Fathers of the Church so appearing in declamations against these things and though there are Laws and Statutes extant against them yet where so●… we the Iustices so busie in Execution of them as some are even to rage and madness in Execution of one Act to make the Quakers Swear against and ●…ase to worship God according to God's Will and their own Consciences 2. This is only such a Liberty as is not in the Bishops nor in any mans Power to deprive men of for thoughts are free and opinion is no crime punishable by mans L●…r being not declared by word or actions so that this Learned Doctor hath here unlearnedly exprest himself in that he talks of Indulgence to Dissenters where there is no Law of man at all broken as in the case of Opinion and Thought unexpressed or undeclared there is not no Law of man being made against the Thoughts and where there is no Law there is no Transgression and so no indulgence at all needed The Bishop might better therefore have spared his pains than talkt of Indulgence here

and as King Iames said in one of his Speeches to his Parliament It is a pure rule in divinity that God never loves to plant his Church with Violence and Blood and that it was usually the condition of Christians to be Persecuted and not to Persecut●… And King Charles the first in his Eikon Basilike pag. 67. in his complaint to God Thou feest how much cruelty amongst Christians is acted under the colour of Religion as if we could not be Christians unless we crucifie one another and pag. 28. Make them at length seriously to consider that nothing violent or injurious can be religious So is it God knowes what ever mistrustful minds may think who measure others corn by their own Bushel a pure Rule Principle and Resolution in our Church as knowing nothing else but patience toward all even ill men will prosper finally and overcome and that we are not to be overcome of Evil but to overcome Evil with Good to make no violent resistance if we could against those under whom we suffer singly for our Consciences much less to exercise Violence in order to the forcing of any against their Consciences to be of us Nor do we build up the City Zion by Blood nor Ierusalem by any Iniquity and Deceit and who ever are otherwise minded how Apostolick so ever they may pretend to be have relinquisht aposta●…ized and degenerated from not that which is ours alone but from that pure Principle of the primitive Pastors who had no dominion over the Faith of any that were within much less any that were without the pale of their Church whom they left to God to Iudge which said Principle can possibly stand no more with Persecution than God himself can stand in Union with the Devil Bish. Or fourthly By way of discreet connivance and charitable indulgence so far as the civil peace of the Nation will bear untill reason and religion of whose prevalency wise and good men never dispair have by ealme and charitable methods recovered People from the error of their waies by the Sacred doctrine and good examples of those who conform to the established Laws in Church and State Ans. It is remarkeable that all of those four waies of treating any party that dissen●…s from themselves which this Bishop hath prescribed three whereof are discreet good and justifiable and two of them justified by himself and but one very bad and condemned by him as barbarous and unchristian he himself is found witnesse his assent to the Act following and assenting to no other then the very worst viz. to Impoverish Imprison Banish and so destroy dissenters a course dissallowed as he confesses by all wise men of all perswasions for I appeal to all wise men to judge whether so much discreet connivance and charitable indulgence hath been used as yet to the Quakers untill reason and religion of whose prevalent ey wise and good men we confesse never dispair though evil men dispair of overcoming by their evil manners and so betake themselves to sharper courses have by calme and charitable methods recovered the People from that which he calls the error of their way by any either Sacred doctrines or good examples of such as conform so freely to that religion that is now establisht What such sound doctrine have we seen delivered by any of the Bishops or by this Bishop either in these his pretended undertakings thereof sufficient to convince any rational man of the Legality of that sort of swearing he so pleads for 2. What good examples have we from the lives and conversations of the Conformists to gain us to the belief of it that their most solemn swearing is the will of God concerning whom though they speak much against the Quakers the Bishop himself by way of discommendation saith pag. 17. that the Quakers shall rise in Iudgement at the last day against many of those their accusers for this very thing in that whilest others are common swearers against Gods own Command and so such as are disposed to false swearing and grosse perjury sins of the first magnitude yea such as to whom when they swear never so solemnly in Iudicature no more credit is to be given then to Lyars the Quakers for which no good men can blame them as he saith have a just abhorrency of the sin of prophane easie trivial familiar false and inconsiderate swearing for which the Land mourneth and whilest the others have no reverence of the Majestie of God nor the Sacrednesse of an Oath the Quakers have so great a fear of an Oath that out of a jealousie of swearing amiss they will not swear at all Do we not see Iniquity abounding beyond all bounds of modesty and common honesty People wallowing in the mire of Lust Voluptuousnesse Uncleannesse Drunkennesse Excesse of Riot Pride Prophane and Predigious Swearing by new coyn'd new invented and before unheard of Oaths in a way of Bravado as if they would dare God to Damne them and engage him to do it before their time Lying Consening Chea●…ing Defrauding countenancing all manner of Lewdnesse and Debauchery among that People who are found the most forward and Zealous Conformitants to what ever Image the Bishops shall set up in the Church 2. Will the ill and beas●…ly manners of bruitish minded men ever win the Quakers from that good conversation which they have in Christ Iesus which is the end of all that Religion that lies in outwards yea as Christ sayes the very Law and the Prophets will it ever gain them back to the old forms upon which God hath stretched forth the line of confusion and the stones of emptinesse to live there with the old meer Formalists their old wretched and unprofitable lives over gain Doth not that sound doctrine and good example the Bishop speakes of remain yet invisible to the eyes of any save such as call evil good and good evill put darknesse for light and light for darknesse hath it ever yet been seen among the generality of Parish People whereby to render dissenters from them inexcusable and justifie that severity which is now by Law to be inflicted on the Oppinions and Actions of those which are true just honest and in no wise so extravagant to the prejudice of the Kingdome as the Bishop makes them But the Bishop who is so wise as to insert in the midst of every of them some odd clause or other whereby to make himself a creep-hole out of the censure of that absurdity which otherwise would fall upon his sayings hath one here also whereby to escape Ob●… For saith he discreet connivance and charitable indulgence is to be used so far onely as the Civil peace of the Nation will bear but the permission of the Quakers Opinions and Actions unlesse they be reduced to obedience do many wayes perturb the publike peace affront the established Religion threaten to subvert our Laws by their disobedience thereunto and to obstruct all Iudiciall proceedings Ans. The Civil Peace hath been