matters of greatest moment and controversie we still choose to practise safely and so as we had reason to judge that all sorts or the most of all the Churches did acknowledge warrantable although they make additaments thereunto To this third great principle of yours I answer 1. To it generally as you lay it downe here generally and afterwards more particularly to the instances and particulars brought by you to make it good In this principle you labour to cast an odium upon all the reformed Churches who differ from you dealing by them in such a medium and way as the Protestants doe by the Papists wheras we alleadge against the Papists that the Protestant Religion is via tuta and what we practise they themselves cannot but allow only they hold and practise over and above as namely they adde to Christs Righteousnesse their own in the point of Justification to Christs intercession the intercession of the Virgin Mary and Saints to prayers unto God prayers to Angels and Saints to the Scriptures the traditions of the Church to our Sacraments confest by themselves five others c. So here you say that you chose to practise safely and so as you had reason to judge other Churches did acknowledge warrantable but they make additaments and this you weave in all along in the particular instances under this head and it lyes upon them to prove what they adde over and above Now besides the great dissimilitude and difference of additaments in the things themselves between the Protestants and Papists and you and the reformed Churches the Papists additaments being in matters of faith and substance of worship but the matters excepted against by you being about outward government and order and that not so much about the things themselves the officers parts of worship but about the different manner and way of them as you acknowledge in your eighth pages and so you had no such cause to insinuate such matters against the reformed Churches yet consider that what you doe hold forth and take as your medium you have no good ground for which will appeare in three particulars and so your Apologie held forth unto the world is neither true nor just 1. I will demonstrate that in many matters of greatest moment and controversie you did not still choose to practise safely and so as you had reason to judge that all sorts or most of the Churches did acknowledge warrantable 2. That the reformed Churches practised more safely then you and did not make additaments as you charge them 3. That you in many Church practises have made additaments and superadditions and that in more materiall things then in such circumstances wherein you tax the reformed Churches For the first of these three Take these three Instances for the present 1. It is a matter of great moment and controversie to forsake the publike Assemblies which you confesse are true Churches and the body of Christ and to set up separated assemblies without and against the leave of the Magistrate Ministers and Churches This is by the judgment of all the godly and learned Divines of note both in other Churches and in our own condemned as unlawfull by Calvin Beza Peter Martyr Zanchius Bullinger Iunius Pareus Morneus Arnesius Voetius c. with Whitakers Brightman Perkins Cartwright Parker Banes Hildersham Ball. c. I could fill a booke with the testimonies of these and many others and I doe challenge the Separatists of all sorts whether them of the head-forme the Anabaptists or of the middle-forme the old Brownists or the lowest-forme the Semi-Separatists to give me any precept or allowed example of such a practise out of the Primitive patterne shew it me and I will yeild the cause As for that place Rev. 18. 4. you professe against that in your 6 t page of having any thoughts of our Churches or Ministers to be Antichristian and Babilonish I could alledge many Scriptures against this practise Iude v. 19 c. The Apostles who were sent by Christ into the world to make Disciples and to bring men from Judaisme and Heathenisme to beleeve in Christ and to plant Churches of such yet they never taught nor practised to gather and separate some Christians from the rest one part of the Church from the other to goe constitute a purer Church neither in Corinth Philippi c. Although there were many corruptions and many loose persons But Paul taught and practised to censure and cast out evill persons but in case those who had power neglected their duty he never taught the godly to separate from the Lords Supper celebrated in the publike Assemblies much lesse for a few to withdraw from their Pastours and other brethren and to set up new Churches of themselves You are Schollers and well read in the Scriptures shew me but any such direction from the Apostles and I am yours 2. It is a matter of moment and controversie the right making and calling of the Ministers of the Gospell now all the reformed Churches according to the examples of Scripture hold Ministers are not to be made by the people alone and that the people have not power of Ordination and Imposition of hands but the Presbyters and yet you have practised the being cal'd and made Ministers by the people without the Imposition of hands of the preaching Presbyters 3. It is a matter of great moment and controversie whether private Christians who were never trained up in Arts and learning nor intended the Ministery may in the publike Congregation Prophesie which Prophesying as it is not practised by the Reformed Churches so by most of them it is not counted warrantable and yet you allowed it in your Churches to which I might adde more instances but that the book would swell into too great a volume To the second head it is evident the râ—…formed Churchs practised more safely as in declining your way in the last mentioned Instances in not permitting such as are Lay-men to preach or prophesie in not forsaking true Churches or true Ministery for the mixture of wicked men but rather casting out such who after admonition continue impenitent so in other practises practising as the Apostles receiving men into their fellowship without any such curious inquirie and long detention sending men from one to another and requiring such preparatives and conditions to Church-fellowship as your Churches have done The wayes and practises the reformed Churches walked in were the good old way knowne and beaten for some score of yeares in which so many great lights and godly people have walkt and so more safe then bie and new wayes that a few men but of yesterday have taken up and have not yet well aired much lesse digested And in the name of other reformed Churches France Holland Scotland I deny the things you charge them with to be additaments or to be properly so called for if the particulars instanced in by you will be found to have a footing in the Scriptures and practised
much abhorring bowing to Altars publishing the Declaration for Sports c. as you and witnessing more frequently against them in our Ministery then some of you As to those lines in the close of this Section The impossibility of continuing your stanaings in those times I confesse there was a great improbability of continuing your publike ministery in those places of London Cambridge c. But whether in some other parts of the Kingdome more remote and obscure you might not have injoyed your Ministery without an impossibility I question Neither at the first did we see or looke farther then the darke part the evill of those superstitions adjoyned to the worship of God which have been the common stumbling block and offence of many thousand tender consciences both in our own and our neighbour Churches ever since the first Reformation of Religion which yet was enough to deprive us of the publike exercise of our Ministeries and together therewith as the watchfulnesse of those times grew of our personall participation in some ordinances and further exposed us either to personall violence and persecution or an exile to avoide it which latter we did the rather choose that so the use and exercise of our Ministeries for which we were borne and live might not be wholly lost nor our selves remaine debarred from the enjoyment of the Ordinances of Christ which we account our birth-right and best portion in this life For some of you I judge this to be true as of Mr Goodwin and Mr Nye knowing something of the story of Mr Goodwins first comming to fall off from the Ceremonies having seen and perused the Arguments and Reasons that past between him and Mr Cotton and some others and Mr Goodwin assured me some Moneths after his going off that he had nothing to say but against the Ceremonies The Lyturgy offended him not much lesse dreamed he of this Church-way he since fell into So that is true at first he saw but the darke part and that but of the Ceremonies But for others of you as namely Mr Bridge and Mr Burroughs whose hands are subscribed to this Apologeticall Narration and this passage is spoken in the Name of you all not some or most of us as in some other passages but Wee as relating to all they did not at first see the darke part nor the evill of those superstitions namely the Ceremonies but were men judged conformable and practised conformity till the yeare of Bishop Wrens Visitation and the sending down to Norwich his Injunctions about which time and upon which occasion Mr Bridge with other Ministers of the City of Norwich being first suspended and Mr Burroughs afterwards at the Visitation and times growing so very bad that there was small hopes of admittance againe into their places upon ould Conformity Mr Bridge tooke his degree per saltum from a reputed Conformitant in the Church of England and might have continued so till this present Parliament for ought I know to fall suddenly into the Church-way without long seeing or looking into the darke part or inquiring into the light part of Church-worship and government as that short space between his suspension at Norwich and his being received into a Church at Rotterdam and thereupon his fierce Letters to some of his old friends in Norwich to come from the Church of England will fully show by which it is manifest the sinfull evils of those Ceremonies tooke not hold upon Mr Bridge and Mr Burroughs consciences till suspensions for Bishop Wrens Innovations first took hold of them 'T is confest the refusing of the Ceremonies in the places you were setled in was enough to deprive you of the publike exercise of your Ministeries in those places Especially considering the using of the Ceremonies could not preserve some of you from suspensions But the refusing of the Innovations was matter enough to silence you there But whether the simple forbearing of the Ceremonies especially having left your places and not taken others was enough to deprive you of your personall participation in some Ordinances and further exposed you either to personall violence and persecution or an exile to avoid it that I much doubt and am no way satisfied Considering notwithstanding the watchfulnesse of those times that many non-conformists did injoy not only some but a personall participation in all the Ordinances of Worship as we use to speake namely Word Prayer Sacraments singing of Psalmes and that in some good degree of peace so as to be kept out of the High-commission Court and prisons and were not put upon a necessity of exile And how ever they resolved to venture some persecution and violence to doe God some service in their own Countrey rather then to leave the Land and desert the cause of God here and so give it up wholly as it were to the enemy If all others had done as you five according to an ordinary way what had become of this Kingdome But besides this I remember some of you as Mr Goodwin and Mr Nye after ye fell off from the Ceremonies did for some space so long as you saw no farther then the darke part partake in the Ordinances here and in that of the Lords Supper too without kneeling and Mr Nye's children were baptized without the signe of the Crosse and in the sixt page of this Apologie you acknowledge that some of you even after you actually were in this way of communion baptized your children in Parishonall Congregations which I suppose you would not have done without liberty from the evill of those superstitions annexed to the worship of God And further for some three yeares space after Mr Goodwin and Mr Nye saw the darke part nay after some good time they saw the light part they stayed in the Kingdome and were both of them publike enough and preached sometimes yet free from personall violence and persecution and needed not for any personall persecution or violence they were under to have left the Kingdome And so Mr Burroughs what ever his judgement was after his suspension about the darke part and the light part was free and safe in the Kingdome till for some speeches spoken about the Scottish Warre in some company not to be trusted he for feare thereof fled in all haste to Rotterdam So that these things stumble me at the truth of these particulars that you needed not have chosen for the bare refusing the Ceremonies that which you so often terme Exile and Banishment to enjoy the Ordinances and to avoide personall violence and persecution But how ever this is held out as a fine story to the Reader yet to me there are other Reasons seeme more probable which you thought good in your wisedomes to conceale which made you chuse that which you so affect to call Exile namely that you might enjoy all the Ordinances of Christ as you use to speake whereof some of them the Reformed Churches have not and that in your Church-way of separated Assemblies
State-ends and politicall interests namely â—…at when some great persons Lords and others should be forced through the badnesse of the times as was expected and feared to seek for shelter in Providence and Hispaniâ—…la you might be there ready to remoove with them and be taken along into those Countreyes where you hoped to set up new Churches and subdue those Countreyes and people which should come over into your mould Or if otherwise things in England should come to have a great turne as they had by this Parliament then also by being in Holland rather then New-England you were nigh hand and your estates more at command quickly to returne to England having this Kingdome in your eye hoping you might either subdue England into the way of your Church-goverâ—…ent or else gaine a great party to you 〈◊〉 the Kingdome which we see is unhappily fallen out And 〈◊〉 all the State-ends and interests to come which you might loâ—…ke upon in your remooving to Holland there were worldly râ—…spects and interests for the present to make you goe in the Churâ—…-way as I have before observed And to all these whereas yoâ—… make the having no new-Common-wealths no Kingdomes to eye to frame Church-government unto as the ground of falling upon the right way Let it be considered by you and the Reader that the framing of a Church-government according to the conjunction of a few godly persons either in a Plantation or as strangers in a Common-wealth and not considering of a Church-government for Nations and Kingdomes that when Kingdomes and Nations doe receive the faith and the Magistrates are Christians and Orthodox that there must be a Church-government as for a Nation and Kingdome is that very thing that deceives you there being alia ratio urbis ac orbis and so a great difference of governing a family two or three or of a Towne and of governing a Nation and Kingdome But as for that Parenthesis you make before you end this Section That your Governement will bâ—… coexistent with the peace of any forme of Civill Governmeâ—… on earth out of the great care you have least your Church-gâ—…nment should suffer in the thoughts of many that it is not consistent with the peace of Civill-government 't is so farre from truth that your Government and Church-way cannot stand with the peace of any forme of Civill government no not with Democraticall government much lesse Aristocraticall or Monarchicall but should it be but tolerated much more established as the government in a Kingdome and Nation we should quickly find the contrary with a witnesse In this Intervall of Church-government we feele without a formall toleration of it woefull effects opposite to the peace and good of civill government And I desire to know from you how you will proove it and we shall be assured of it for we dare not take your bare word seeing that never yet any Kingdome or Nation entertained your Church-way and government there being yet no experiment of it which of the Presbyteriall goverment hath been in Kingdomes and Common-wealths this fourescore yeares And I must tell you that in New-England which yet was farre from being a Kingdome and Nation when they began to multiply and encrease this government had like to have ruined them both in Church and Common-wealth and had they not enterposed and since doe daily the power of the Magistrate and many suitable principles to the Presbyteriall way they had been ruined before this and what yet will be the issue unlesse they fall off more and more from their Independency a little time will shew and there are Letters from thence complaining of the confusions of necessity depending on that government We were not engaged by Education or otherwise to any other of the Reformed Churches And although we consulted with reverence what they hold forth both in their writings and practisâ—… yet we could not but suppose that they might not see into all things about worship and Government their intentions being most spent as also of our first Reformers in England upon the Reformation in Doctrine in which they had a most happy hand And 〈◊〉 had with many others observed that although the exercise of that Government had been accompanied with more peace yet the practicall part the power of godlinesse and the profession thereof with difference from carnall and formall Christians had not beeâ—… advanced and held forth among them as in this our Island as themselves have generally acknowledged We had the advantage of all that light which the conflicts of our own Divines the good old Non-conformists had struck forth in their times And the draughts of Discipline which they had drawn which we found not in all things the very same with the practises of the Reformed Churches And â—…hat they had written came much more commended to us not only because they were our own but because sealed with their manifold and bitter sufferings We had likewise the fatâ—…ll miscarriages and ship-wracks of the Separation whom ye call Brownists as Land-marks to forewarne us of thâ—…se rocks and shelves they ran upon which also did put us upon an inquirie into the principles that might be the causes of their divisions Last of all We had the recent and later example of the wayes and practises and those improved to a better Edition and greater refinement by all the fore-mentioned helps of those multitudes of godly men of our own Nation almost to the number of another Nation and among them some as holy and judicioâ—… Divines as this Kingdome hath bred whose sincerity in theâ—… way hath been testified before all the world and will be to all generations to come by the greatest undertaking but that of our father Abraham out of his own Countrey and his sâ—…ed after him a transplanting themselves many thousand miles distance and and that by sea into a wildernesse meerely to worship God more purely whither to allure them there could be no other invitement And yet we still stood as vnengaged spectators free to examine and consider what truth is to be found in and amongst all these all which we looke upon as Reformed Churches and this nakedly according to the word We resolved not to take up our Religion by or from any party and yet to approve and hold fast whatsoever is good in any though never so much differing from us yea orposite unto us It may be if you had been engaged by Education or otherwise to any other of the Reformed Churches that you had seen the order and peace in some of the Reformed Churches and had you conversed with them before you drunke in these opinions you had never been transported with them in opposition to so many most worthy Churches but to what end is this brought in with all those particulars newly mentioned in the foregoing page We had we had with that passage in the close of the last Section We had nothing else to doe but simply and singly to consider how to
worship God acceptably and so most according to his word unlesse to insinâ—…ate and to cast an aspersion upon all others they had so and so and they were engaged by Education and otherwise a fine Râ—…hetoricall way of casting blemishes upon all others and freeing your selves as much as in plaine English to say That State-ends politicall interests preferments and worldly respects ingagements by Education and such like with the streame of publike interest might beare all others down that they should not find out the truth but you alas good men so fâ—…e from having any thing to doe in this world or regarding worldly preferments or hanging upon great persons that you must needs find out the truth But as you would bring Education in and conversing with the Reformed Churches as the by as to draw many to the Presbyteriall way So let me tell you though you were noâ—… engaged any way to the Reformed Churches of Europe yet you were many wayes to the Reformed Churches of New-England and to some prime mâ—…n in New-England by a high admiration of them One of you more especially was so eâ—…aged in his high thoughts of one of the Ministers of New-England by whom also I am sure he was first taken off the darke part that he hath said there was not such another man in the world againe Which Minister after his going into New-England and falling into the Church-way there and sending over Letters into England about the New-way presently after these Letters began the falling off and questioning Communion in our Churches and before these Letters were sent into England and the coppies of them communicated to divers I never by discourse with any of you nor from others heard that you were fallen into the Church-way As for your consulting with reverence what the Reformed Churches held forth both in their writings and practice that could be no long time as appeares by what I have before prooved and besides the short time you tooke to consult of Church-government and worship after your landing in Holland there are many passages in this Apologie shew no great reverence towards them and if a man should guesse of your reverence to the Churches of Scotland and France by many of your way both Ministers and people what they speake of Presbyteriall government and of those Churches he would conclude it were very little But these good words of the Reformed Churches are to make way for a back-blow to those Churches and to get some advantage still to your own way namely that you could not but suppose that they might not see into all things about worship and government their intentions being most spent upon the Reformation in Doctrine c. And why may not I suppose the same thing of Mr Goodwin Mr Nye and the rest of you that you may not see into all things about worship and government for if they might not then much more not you they excelling you in piety learning sufferings yeares But suppose the Reformed Churches at first might not yet considering that it is now above fourescore yeares since government and worship was purged as well as Reformation in Doctrine which you say was so well setled at first and since so many questions and controversies having risen about Worship and Government in their Churches and ours as about Morelius and about the Anabaptists and Brownists and of late the Independents and these differences having been debated in Synods and Assemblies having heard and seen all they could say against Presbyteriall government and what could be said for themselves if either they or you had the truth on your sides what reason can you give why they should not see into it upon so much enquity study and dispute the Reformed Churches being more free to entertaine truths and change somewhat in their Discipline then you were in your first entertaining this New-way For example The Churches of France living under persecution for their Religion and the truth of God if your way had any truth in it it were all one for matter of persecution to receive yours as their own As to that passage in this Section concerning the good old non-conformists that you say We had the advantage of all that light which their conflicts struck forth in their times c I answer a great part of their light as in Mr Cartwright Mr Hildersham c. was against the Separatists and their practises as their writings testifie as well as against the Diocesan Bishops and Ceremonies and it had been happy for you and this Kingdome that you had made better use of their light and of their draughts of Discipline the Reformation had been more easie and the godly party more united and the common enemy had never conceived such hopes and taken such heart as he does from your opinions And what ever you say it seemes that a great part of what the good old non-conformists writ came not much commended to you though your own and for all their sufferings because you follow it no better As to that passage about the Separation following the passage of the Non-conformists It is well you acknowledge that the Separation had fatall miscarriages and ship-wracks in their way and it was well you tooke such notice of them that you counted them as Land-markes to fore warâ—…e you of those rocks and shelves they ran upon and that thereupon you did enquire into the principles that might be the causes of their divisions this is one of the best passages in your book As there are foure passages among so many bad that are good and usefull One of the Parliament A second of the Assembly of Divines The third this of the Separatists The fourth a Description of many of the Proâ—…torus and people of this Kingdome But it had been better you had made so good a use of this observation and enquirie in Gods visibly witnessing from Heaven against the Separation in giving them up to fearfull sins in inflicting fearfull judgements and leaving them to strange divisions which your selves allude to in this passage and you know was in the stories of Browne Bolton Barrow Smith Iohnsons c. so as to have kept further from their principles and thereupon to have feared forsaking communion with our Churches and setting up Separated Assemblies and agreeing so much with them in most of the fundamentall and essentiall principles and practises and not to have come so nigh to them against whom God witnessed by so many fatall miscarriages and ship-wracks as only to resine and qualifie Brownisme and to spinne it of a finer thred then the old Separatists did But let me here put this Dilemma to you Seeing the Separatists fatall miscarriages and ship-wracks did put you upon an enquiry into the principles and causes of their divisions upon the enquiry either you found out and discovered those principles or you did not If you did not discover them why doe you insert these words here and carry it so to make the Reader
that most supreame namely to be in all things guided by the perfect will of God enacted as the most sacred law of all other in the midst of all other laws and Canons Ecclesiasticall in Christian States and Churches throughout the world This is a dangerous principle to goe by in the Church of God excellent for unstable men and wanton wits fitted for libertins and running heads that love no fixed nor setled government and serves well to the humour of a few particular persons but pernitious and sad for Nationall Churches and Kingdomes a reserve indeed and a good back doore to go out at from Brownisme to Anabaptisme and from Anabaptisme to Sebaptisme and from thence to Famialisme and Socinianisme It is a ready prepared way for those that would draw men into errours under the pretence of new light to worke upon and so to lead men from one errour to another till there be no end Which kind of principle of uncertainty in matters of religion the Remonstrants did hold forth in those sad times of the troubles of the Churches in the Netherlands that so they might overturne all formes and harmonies whereby the Churches both within themselves and one towards another might be setled and associated that was one of the scepticall rules of the Arminians dies diem docet But this principle of yours so carried all along in your resolutions seemes to crosse that first principle of the Scriptures the supreame rule and perfect for Church government for in effect it is as much as to hold that the government and way of the Church visible is so uncertaine and doubtfull as that little or none may be positively laid downe and concluded as Iure Divino Now according to this second principle and profession of yours why doe you make such outeries and tragedies in the Church forsaking all Churches for you know not what even for that which you made open and constant professions upon all occasions you would not be bound to and pray how doth this agree with your principle of Church government that it is in all particulars perpetuall and unchangeable whenas you will be changing it so often But certainely when you first fell to your Church-way and took up this principle you were not resolved what way to follow but thought that in some yeares by adding now and then and forsaking this and the other you might attaine to something in the end But let me aske you ought men in the matters of Religion and in things of the Kingdome of Christ to be Scepticks and so irresolved or ought not men to be perswaded in their consciences But I hope the Parliament will observe this great principle you were first acted by and still are in all your Church-way and will see how dangerous the tolerating of your way will be for though you should for present hold nothing much different from the established rule yet being allowed what may you not come to according to this principle how shall any State be sure of you long what you will hold What if you should bring in community of goods baptizing in rivers the holy Kisse into your Assemblies at the beginning and ending of your Ordinances annointing sick persons with oyle it is but according to your principle And we see you make so much of this principle and are so in love with it that you wish it next to your first principle enacted as the most sacred Law of all other to live and walke by it in Christian States and Churches throughout the world and I am perswaded if you would speake out you wish it instead of all other Laws and Canons 〈◊〉 You are not content your selves to be Scepticks and loose in the government of the visible Church but you would have all others to be liâ—… unto you not to make their present judgement and practise a binding law for the future but to make continuall professions upon all occasions of altering But let us consider what may be the reasons of such a passionate desire that this principle were enacted in all Churches I conceive these following 1. That others changing and altering as well as you the imputation of inconstancy and lightnesse might not stick upon you 2. That so you might gaiâ—… more to your way and Church by possessing them with this principle having this advantage to worke upon and this engine to draw the people with There is nothing you have concluded on but you are free and at choice still to take what seemes most probable to you whereas if men be set downe and resolved they are not so apt to change 3. That so you might not as you pretend block up the way to further light but keep alive that principle of New light and New truths and that men must not content themselves with old truths and the old light but they must seeke out after New light whereas establishment and setling of points upon serious debates and disputes both in points of doctrine with the fundamentals and substantials of discipline as the truths of God and the way for men to walke in upon such Scriptures and reasons will shut out such search as you conceive but this is a mistake to imagine that if any evident light from Scripture should come in afterwards especially considering that reformed Churches in their confessions and Articles hold that particular Churches may erre and may receive increase of knowledge and for matters of Discipline declare particularly that in the accessaries accidentals circumstantials Churches have liberty to change upon inconveniences and different occasions that may arise that they are ever the further off from it But this principle of irresolution and uncertainty in matters of Religion upon the ground of New light and New truths as it is commonly laid downe and drunke in now by men of the Church-way makes men unsatisfied restlesse doubtfull in their present practise and upon searching when they can find none the Devill and their own corruptions will make some and brings them old errors for New truths and men being possest by some that principles are to be new studied and that there are New truths and New light never known before Satan is not wanting to raise up one or other to vent errors under those notions as we see at this day in the Antinomians and the Anabaptists their great argument wherby they take so many being that of New light and New truths which God hath revealed in these times 4. I hope this principle so rooted in you and your frailty in the former way of conformity may be a reserve for you to come off from Independencie to Presbyterie upon the debates of the Assembly and from your Church-way to the way of the reformed Churches which I heartily pray may be the fruit of this principle so openly and constantly profest and am not wholly out of hope especially of some of you Thirdly We are able to hold forth this true and just Apologie unto the world That in the
Churches allow particular Congregations such an entire and compleate power to be exercised by the Elders within themselves and wherein not such a particular Narration would have carried in the face of it some ground for the defference of their practise and allowance might have served to have pointed out the differences between your way and theirs But secondly As you relate the way and discipline of the reformed Churches it sounds somewhat harsh and strange that their practise should be one way and their judgements another their practise to governe each particular Congregation by a combined Presbyterie of the Elders of severall Congregations united in one for government and yet in their judgements to allow especially in some cases a particular Congregation and entire and compleate power of jurisdiction within it selfe Doe they practise one way and allow another way or doe they hold both wayes the wayes of God or what is it you meane in this Narration of those Churches or can it be meant in the same sense and acception to practise one thing and yet allow another or will you make the lesser matters practised in their particular Churches by their own Elders to be the same with some cases wherein they allow particular Congregations an entire and compleate power of jurisdiction within themselves Now the latter namely in some cases cannot be meant for then this last part is no more then the first neither can your words of an entire compleate power of jurisdiction in the particular Congregations be meant of smaller matters but of the greatest matters in some cases You shall doe well in your reply to english these lines about the difference of the reformed Churches practises in greater matters and their different judgements in some cases and shew us in what sense they meane it and whether it can be properly and truly alledged for your case of entire and compleate power in your Congregations Thirdly This which you here relate of the reformed Churches practise and allowance is fallaciously set downe and for your own advantage meerely to make out this third principle that you still chose to practise safely namely what the reformed Churches allowed and acknowledged warrantable onely they superadded Presbyteriall combinations whereas the reformed Churches doe not as you well know in the case and question controverted between them and you allow particular Congregations in a Kingdome and nation conceiving the reformed Religion to have an entire and compleate power of jurisdiction within themselves what may be in some of their books in extraordinary or speciall cases where there is but one particular Congregation in a Countrey or the like that is nothing to the point in hand it being laid for a common ground by them all that every particular Church in a Nation or Kingdom is not to be left to it selfe but that there is a necessity of a common nationall government to preserve all the Churches in unity and peace And to cleare the reformed Churches of France Holland Scotland from what you say they allow I doe not find in their books of discipline and platformes of Church government by which we must judge of their judgements nor in their practises that they doe allow an entire and compleate power to be exercised by the Elders of every Congregation alone either in the making or ordaining of Ministers or in deposing their Ministers or in drawing up a forme of doctrine worship and discipline for themselves they allow power of admonition suspension from the Lords Supper and of taking up lesser differences by the particular Eldership and if I forget not the Churches of France only practise excommunication by the Elders in particular Congregations without carrying it at first higher but then if we consider that in those Churches of France their Elderships goe upon certaine fixed rules in there excommunications laid down in their books of discipline who if they proceed otherwise are liable to censure themselves and their being appeales to Synods and Assemblies and all being carried in reference and dependance to Assemblies the case is very different now if the Churches of your way and communion in old England and in New would yeeld to have a government fixt and setled by Synods and Assemblies establisht also by the Magistrates upon which Rules and Orders they should proceed in the way of making Ministers and that such errors in doctrine and such evill manners ought to be the subject of excommunication and then agree upon appeales to Synods and Assemblies then there would be lesse dangâ—…r in such an entire and compleate power in particular Congregations To the second particular under this first head namely what some of the old non-conformists grant placing the power of excommunication in the Eldership of each particular Church untill they doe miscarry and then indeed subjâ—…cting them to Presbytâ—…riall and Provinciall Assemblies and that it could not be infallibly prooved that any of the Churches recorded in the new Testament were so numerous as necessarily to exceed the limits of one particular Congregatïon And that both the Ministers of the reformed Churches and our non-conformists all granted that there should be severall Elders in every Congregation who had power over them in the Lord I answer as followes For Mr Cartwright you not quoting which of his books you have reference to and so not knowing which to turne to to find out what you assert of him I shall not deny it but as for Mr Baynes Diocesans Tryall which is the only booke I ever heard of wherein he handles these points he doth in the third question give the Ecclesiasticall power and the exercise of it to a united multitude of Presbyters in which booke howsoever as intending his booke against Diocesan Bishops and Diocesan Churches to whom all Presbyters and Churches stand in subjection and subordination he pleads against them for the power of the particular Elders in the severall Congregations yet as against the reformed Churches practise namely of a Presbyteriall Church consisting of many particular Congregations and ruled by the Elders of severall Congregations combined he pleadeth not but expressely in answer made to those two objections from the Churches and Elders where there is a co-ordination and a communiâ—…y in government as in the Low Countries and at Géneva he grants the thing contended for against your Congregationall way even before miscarrying and shewes thâ—… great difference between the Diocesan government and the Presbyteriall in severall particulars and answers your objections which you commonly make of a forraigne extrinsicall power And for your better satisfaction reade and compare together the passages in these pages of Mr Baynes Diocesans Tryall page 21 page 11. What is meant by a Diocesan Church and in the 12th page two first conclusions agreed in and in the 16th page And for the non-conformists in their writings against the Episcopall government and Diocesan Churches though they put the Bishops their adversaries all they could to it to make them proove
of Dort and unto Vedelius de Episcopatu Constantini magni who as all men know gives in that booke power enough to Magistrates in Ecclesiasticals yet he layes down at large that as the Anabaptists and Socinians following the Donatists give too little to the Magistrate so the Arminians did offend in the excesse For before the Synod of Dort they contended that under the Orthodox Magistrate the Church had of it selfe no spirituall power The Ministers of the Church did performe their office in the name of the Magistrate so that the Magistrate because he for other businesses could not preach c. he did preach by the Ministers they gave the government of the Church to the Magistrates alone they gave the calling of Ministers and their deposing to the Magistrate alone with many other such but afâ—…er the Synod they denie 't is their right and office to oblige men by their authoritie to the decrees of Synods however agreeable to the word or to use any coactive power in that case c. in which they take away as much from the Magistrate as in other things they seemed to give And it may be feared however these Apologists now to ingratiate themselves and being left alone in their Church-way say they give more to the Magistrates then the Presbyteriall and that they professe to submit and to be most willing to have recourse to the Magistrates judgement and cognizance and examination of Ecclesiasticall causes yet when they shall come once to be crossed and the Parliament by the advise of the Assembly to settle the government of the Church and by their authoritie to bind them to the things agreeable to the word we shall see then what they will say of the Magistrates power there are too many speeches alreadie since the meeting of the Assembly out of their feare how things may goe which have fallen from many Independents that prognosticate they will doe by the Parliament as the Remonstrants did after the Synod of Dort by the States 2. But whatever you say here that you think you give more to the Magistrates then the principles of the Presbyterian Government will suffer them to yeeld I doe much doubt it and doe judge that in many things you give no more in Ecclesiasticals then the Presbyterians and in others you give lesse and they give more M. Robinson in his Apologie saith of himselfe and his Church that in the point of the civill Magistrate and his office they hold altogether the same thing which the Belgicke Churches doe and that to their Confession in this point they do ex animo agree Now the Belgick Churches are Presbyterians and your Church-way M. Robinsons differ not much â—…o that till you know what you give more to the civill Magistrate then M. Robinson and his Church doe I cannot beleeve you especially considering that M. Burroughes one of you in his Lectures upon Hosea speaking of the power of Magistrates in Church affaires gives no more to them then the rigidest Presbyterians namely That the King is supreame governour to governe in a civill way by civill Lawes so as to sâ—… Christ not dishonoured so as to keepe out Idolatry to protect the Church to punish enormitios that are there to defind it from enemies In that sense he is said to be the head but that title of supreame Governour being understood in a civill way is more proper Now it were easie out of Beza Calvin Zanchius and many Presbyterians to show more power given to Kings by them in matters of Religion then by M. Burroughes there so that I have more reason to judge of your principles by what M. Burroughes writes particularly and by way of answering doubts of conscience then from a Narrration in generall and from we thinke more then the principles of Presbyteriall Government will suffer them to yeeld In other things you give not so much to the Magistrates as the Presbyterians First whereas the a Presbyterians doe acknowledge the Protestant Prince and Magistrate an eminent member of the Church and in their greatest Assemblies and Councels give him an eminent place and power you according to your principles doe not owne him for a member of the Church neither shall his children be admitted to Baptisme nor he to the ordinances though a Protestant and Orthodoxe unlesse you account him a visible Saint c. neither doe you give him so much power or vote no not in a particular Church in any Church matters of censures admissions election of officers c. as you doe give to one of your serving men and the supreme Magistrate and his children though brought up and professing the true Religion may be and will be kept from the Sacraments all their dayes 2. The Presbyterians give to the Magistrate a coercive and coactive power to suppresse heresies schisme to correct troublers and unruly persons in the Church to tie and bind men by their authoritie to the decrees of Synods made according to the word of God which power as b Voetius showes only the Remonstrants with the Libertines did not admit but all the Presbyterians doe reject such opinions that the Magistrate could not by his authoritie bind and compell men to observe the decrees of Synods conformable to the word of God now doe you allow the Magistrates such a power By your pleading for tolerations of Religion and for liberty of conscience and that conscience is not to be tied and by your speaking against impositions of things lawfull and agreeable to the word as set formes of prayer decreed by Synods and such like 't is very suspitious you allow not such a power to Magistrates and your good friend M. S. in his answer to the observations and considerations upon your Apologeticall Narration pleading your cause denies and pleads against this coercive power of the Magistrate 3. The Presbyterians give a great deale of power to the supreme Christian Magistrate in the Reformation of Religion and in repairing and building the house of God as might be showne out of Calvin Zanchius Peter Martyr c. but whether the Independents give as much when they allow private men to gather and make Churches and Ministers to do such publike workes and that without leave nay against the mind and laws of the supreame Magistrate I question There is a Tractate in my hands about a Church that goes under the name of one of you wherein civill Magistrates are cut off and Ministers too from having any power to make Churches and the immediate Independent power from Christ is given to the Saints onely to gather and combine themselves in such an Assembly without expecting warrant from any Governours what soever upon earth Saints as Saints have a right and full power to cast themselves into the fellowship without asking the consent of Governours and civill Magistrates who have no power in the marriage of their people nor should have it being an act of naturall civill
only and the highest powers can they alwayes heare or attend unto through the many great businesses of State affaires all the differences scandals schismes that both in particular Churches and betweene Churches will fall out in a Kingdome or Nation in this way of non-communion and protestation against one another especially in Independent Churches where people make Churches and Ministers in that way they doe and have no fixed rules nor certaine way I warrant the supreame Magistrate and higher Powers Kings and Parliaments shall have something to doe to back the sentence of non-communion and to heare all causes and differences But if you understand the inferiors also Majors Bailiffs c. I represent it to you what fit judges most of them are to judge and determine of such difficult Ecclesiasticall causes in heresies schismes scandals c. which fall out amongst the Ministers of Churches and between Churches themselves Againe If you understand the Magistrate indefinitely and obsolutely any Magistrate though Heathen Popish Arrian as Mr Robinson doth in his Apologie and I find it in your manuscripts and principles that you take it so judge then in your selves if the Church hath not remedies among themselves how fit are they who understand not Christian religion nor the doctrines according to godlinesse to judge of the great differences between Churches and to assist the sentence of non-communion against Churches if the Apostle Paul reproved the Corinthians so in 1 Cor. 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7. for cariying matters from the Church even the smallest matters the things that pertained to this life unto unbeleevers how would he blame the carrying of things spirituall and Ecclesiasticall unto Heathen from the Ministers of the Church or doe you understand that there shall be Courts of civill Judicature to appeale unto c. then there must be certaine Laws and rules agreed upon as for particular Churches so between the Churches according to which they must proceed to back the sentence of non-communion and protestation c. which yet you practise not Now the many inconveniences that would come of such Courts you may easily fore-see so that this is not like to be an effectuall remedy 6. What shall be done in case there be no Magistrates at all to take any notice in matters of Religion and Church government but leave Churches to themselves in that as it was with you in Holland there were no Magistrates medled with the government and order of your Churches nor none to have recourse unto or to backe the sentence of Non-communion you being in a place and State where no outward violence or any other externall authoritie either civill or Ecclesiasticall would have enforced you what shall in this case supply the defect of Excommunication and of an Ecclesiasticall authoritative power Hath not the wisdome of Christ provided remedies in the Church for all the internall necessities of the Church and constituted it a perfect bodie within it selfe 7. Whether can it be rationally and probably thought that in an ordinary way the having recourse unto the Magistrate though orthodox and the submitting to his particular cognizance and examination of such causes with his backing the sentence of Non-communion in Ecclesiasticall causes in cases of sinnes errours differences that arise in Churches should be as effectuall and sufficient a remedie as the way of Classes and Synods and that the Magistrates interposing their authoritie and power of another nature will be as good as the Authoritative Presbyteriall Governement in all the subordinations and proceedings of it Now that 't is not probable it should be or that it should serve in stead of Synods and Classes take these probable and rationall grounds 1. All wanton wits and erroneous spirits all your Sectaries and Novelists are rather for this way then for Synods and Classes though most of them would have neither to meddle at all in matters of Religion as the Socinians Anabaptists c. Thus the Arminians were against Classes and Synods and all for the power of Magistrates and it was their chiefe Engine by which in those sad daies of the Netherlands they encreased their partie and came to such a height Sectaries hope that if they can decline the Ecclesiasticall Assemblies they sha'l what by flatterie and what by delay through other great businesses of State and what by sophismes and fallacies and what from principles of policie in many States-men and what by friends c. effect that which they have no hopes at all by Ecclesiasticall Assemblies they know the Presbyteries and Synods are able to discover their fallacies answer their arguments will mind those businesses wholly are not to be wrought upon by State principles c. Now if in experience and reason this way were as powerfull to reduce a Church or Churches from schisme and heresie they would never be so much for this way rather then Presbyterie 2. Naturall reason dictates that they are best able and fittest to judge and resolve of things who doe above others give themselves to the studie and profession of those things as Physitians can best judge of wholesome meats and diseases and Lawyers of the lawes and differences arising in them a Counsell of Warre of difficult cases and points in warre And therefore in things that belong to the spirituall good of the soule and the Church the Ministers of the Church are most likely to resolve and to remedie things Can it ordinarily be expected that the Magistrate should in matter of doctrine and opinion in matters of schisme and in matters of worthinesse and abilities of Ministers and in many cases that arise be able to judge and determine matters as the Ministers and Pastours of the Church 3. Those who have most time and leisure to attend a worke and businesse to sift into it to heare all that can be said and can mind it they being able and understanding are likeliest to determine best and bring things to a good end we see in experience that able and honest men through multitudes of businesse delay long slubber over businesses and cannot doe things so effectually as they ought and seldome prove good Arbitratours in difficult intricate cases Now Magistrates through many great and necessarie businesses of State having large dominions cannot so well attend as the Classes and Synods to heare and examine all the differences scandals schismes c. that doe and may arise both in Churches and betweene Churches especially as would fall out in the Independent way and particularly in this way of submission Non-communion and mutuall Protestation but matters would be delayed and neglected or escape wholly or be hudled up 4. To these I might adde as followes that the Magistrate through his just greatnesse would not know the spirits and dispositions of Ministers people nor of other matters so well as the Ministers who live among them and converse with one another frequently neither would there be that easinesse of accesse to the Magistrates and great persons as
to their Ministers and Pastours with other such like 8. But in Ecclesiasticall matters and differences upon the Magistrates interposing his power what is it you will submit unto and what will you allow him to doe And what is that power you will give him in backing the sentence of Non-communion upon his judgement of the cause and how farre and in what will you obey him that so we may understand how this Civill power is intended by you for a remedie and helpe in Churches and betweene Churches For instance will you submit not to gather Churches nor set up Assemblies withoâ—…â—…is leave and upon complaints of the many mischiefes and differences occasioned thereupon will you upon his hearing both sides and judging that those who are gathered shall be dissolved dissolve them and not meet in those wayes any more Will you upon some members complaining to the Magistrate of some Minister or Ministers in their Church for preaching erroneous and unprofitable doctrine meere novelties subtilties and the Magistrate upon particular cognizance and examination of such causes judging that he shall preach no more will the Minister forbeare upon it or the Church to heare him in case the Minister would not yeeld will the Church now goe chuse a new and Orthodox Minister upon it or in case a member or more be unjustly excommunicated and they complaine to the Magistrate who calling the Church to account and hearing both sides shall judge on the Complaiants side and now order the Church to absolve him and order them to confesse their sinne publikely and appoint them to keepe a day of humiliation for it and order them to give him such a summe of mony for the wrong trouble and losse of his time in following the businesse against them will the Church now submit to doe all this yea or no What say you to these and the like cases Now I aske you this in the close because you pretend a great deale of submission to the Magistrate and to give him much power which though you did grant yet for the many reasons and grounds alreadie specified this would not countervaile the way of the Presbyterians in their spirituall censures by Presbyters and Synods whether you clearely and plainly allow this to the Magistrate because I finde in Manuscripts and heare that in Sermons by men of your Church-way the contrarie is publikely preacht and held as for example in that Treatise about a Church which goes under one of your names there is this passage with more to that purpose The Saints need not expect their power or leave for to gather together so as without it such a combination is unlawfull nor should they forbeare it out of conscience of the Magistrates prohibition indeed if the Magistrate should force or compell them to forbeare or persecute them they may forbeare actuall assembling Act. 8. 1. not because the Magistrate forbids it but in mercie to themselves And indeed about a Church Christian Magistrates have no more power then Heathen Magistrates had So that this is spoken by you where Magistrates are Christian and where Churches are already setled And adde to this that M. S. in his Reply in defence of your Apologie is against coercive and coactive power in matters of Religion and that you all hold a toleration and that the Magistrates ought not to hinder men or punish them for the matter of their consciences how then notwithstanding all your discourse of the power of the Magistrate which added to Non-communion will be an effectuall meanes to releeve persons injured to reduce Churches and persons going in schisme and errours shall persons injured be remedied or Churches and persons reduced For suppose the persons or Churches that now fall into such errours and schismes will pretend nay 't is so really that they in their conscience hold errours for truths and thereupon with-draw from such Churches to others nay suppose those who now receive these new truths should cast out of their fellowship and excommunicate some for holding otherwise as for instance a Church falling into Antinomianisme should censure some of their members that remain orthodox for legal Christians and for being enemies to free-grace and should judge themselves bound to doe so in these and such like cases what remedie is there for miscarrying Churches by all the power of the Magistrate you pretend to give to him But this is brought in here by you and given to him to put of that strong argument against your way and that you may have something for present to blind the eyes and stop the mouths of many that looke no further that it may serve your turne at such a straight whereas upon other principles you denie the Magistrate this when it shall come to be a matter of conscience And now by all the severall particulars under this fifth head the understanding Reader may observe that not only in many respects your non-Communion and Magistrates power are not a remedie comparable to the Presbyterian way not proper nor to the nature of the offences and things in question a way in stead of bringing things to an end redressing and mending matters amisse that will be but the beginning of more strife and making more differences and evils then either it sindes or can heale the mother and nurse of Confusions Disorders and endlesse contentions but also that all the power here pretended to be given to the Magistrate upon examination is no such matter nor will not amount to make good the ends propounded whereas the Presbyteriall Government here scandalized as either wholly inconsistent with this forme of Civill Government or else not giving it its due will be found by its principles not only to have powerfull spirituall remedies for all spirituall evils of the Church but will be found in many respects to make use of and to give honour and power to the Civill Magistrate as a nursing Father from first to last even in the ordinary way of the Order and Government of the Church beyond you besides what they give more in extraordinary cases in a Church miserably corrupted disordered c. Of which the Reader may read at large in Apollonius who was a great Presbyterian cap. 2. And so learned Zanchius in his Tractate de Magistratis shewes 't is in the power of the Magistrate not to suffer Heretickes nor erroneous persons to preach and he gives him coactive punitive power to cut them off Beza a great Presbyterian in his Epistles and other writings in matters of Religion doth not exclude the Magistrate but gives him that power in some things which you deny but besides that power they give the Magistrate they stand for as needfull in the Church Classes and Synods for the Government of it Zanchy shewes that discipline cannot take place where the Ministers never meet together the meâ—…ting of Ministers and Ecclesiasticall Synods we judge most necessary As no Politie Common-wealth or Kingdome can consist without their meetings Senates and Councels
and vigour are sensibly increased the Lord be praised And besides these letters the thing it selfe speakes for whereas in England he was not able to preach nor had not hardly three times in three yeares after he came into Holland he was Pastor of the Church at Arnheim and preached constantly and had that strength to beget a sonne whereas he being married many yeares in England never had any child And not only from him but from others also there have been many letters sent to commend the places where you lost your fellow labourers to be so healthfull and pleasant as to resemble them to Bury in Suffolke and Hart ford As for that high praise of those two worthy Ministers as precious men as this earth beares any I thinke it becomes you not they being yours and of your way and cannot be interpreted by the understanding Reader but that you take occasion here as in all other places of your Apologeticall Narration to magnifie and cry up your own party the more to make people to be in love with your way which had as precious men as this earth beares any but I judge it is too high and hyperbolicall for though I dearely loved the men and doe acknowledge they were precious and beleeve they are gone as that great Divine said in his sicknesse he was going where Luther and Zuinglius doe well agree yet I must needs correct that phrase as this earth beares any For I am of opinion that both in learning and piety they were inferiour to some not only in the earth which is wide and spatious containing Churches and Ministers more pretious then you know of but in this earth of England and Scotland and your Encomium of them if you remember what you writ before of some pretious men alive now in New-England as ever this Kingdome bred and granting that New-England is the earth doth amount to this that these two Ministers Mr Archer and Mr Harris were as pretious men as ever were in England which you must pardon me if I doubt it for I beleeve Whitakers Reynolds Baynes Greeneham Dod Brightman with many more were more pretious As for that other instance Your selves comming hardly off that service with your healths yea lives I have not heard of any great sicknesses any of you five had there excepting Mr Bridge who came hardly off with his health Some of you indeed had Agues there which you might have had in England in Suffolk or in Oxfordshire and for Mr Bridges sicknesse I judge it was as well occasioned and strengthened upon the unhappy differences and bitter divisions between him and Mr Simpson and Mr Ward and their Churches and the wicked reports raised upon him which discontented and troubled his spirit as by the distemper of the place or change of the aire and for others of you how fat and well liking you came backe into England and how all of you returned well clad and shining beyond most of us who lived alwaies in England many can witnesse and have spoken of it all which were no great signes either of the many other miseries the companions of your banishment nor of the comming off so hardly with your healths and lives When it pleased God to bring us his poore Exiles backe againe in these revolutions of the times as also of the condition of this Kingdome into our own Land the powring forth of manifold prayers and teares for the prosperitie whereof had been no small part of that publike worship we offered up to God in a strange Land we found the judgement of many of our godly learned bretheren in the Ministerie that desired a generall Reformation to differ from ours in some things wherein we doe professedly judge the Calvinian Reformed Churches of the first Reformation from out of Poperie to stand in need of a further Reformation themselves And it may without prejudice to them or the imputation of schisme in us from them be thought that they comming new out of Popery as well as England and the founders of that Reformation not having Apostolique infallibilitie might not be fully perfect the first day yea and it may hopefully be conceived that God in his secret yet wise and sacred dispensation had left England more unreformed as touching the outward forme both of worship and Church-government then the neighbour Churches were having yet powerfully continued a constant conflict and contention for a further Reformation for these foure score yeares during which time he had likewise in stead thereof blessed them with the spirituall light and that encreasing of the power of Religion in the practique part of it shining brighter and clearer then in the neighbour Churches as having in his infinite mercie on purpose reserved and provided some better thing for this Nation when it should come to be reformed that the other Churches might not be made perfect without it as the Apostle speaks Having Apologized for your selves and way in your principles opinions practises and carriage towards all sorts both before your exile and in your exile here in this section you come to Apologize for your selves and for what you have done since your comming back into England both before the Assemblie and since the Assemblie untill the time of putting forth this present Apologeticall Narration which beginning in this section is continued by you in the following sections to the 30th page But brethren why doe you in the beginning of this part of your Apologie give your selves that name of Gods poore Exiles was it not enough to have said when it pleased God to bring us backe againe into our owne Land but you must call your selves Gods Exiles and poore Exiles I wonder you tearmed not your selves poore pilgrims But the reason why you name your selves so here and in this Apologie take occasion so often to speake of exile and banishment may easily be guest at namely to commend your persons and way the more to the people and for want of better to take them with such popular arguments as suffering a grievous exile Thus in many other passages of your Apologie you bring in and insert many such kind of phrases to worke with the people the more but doe insinuate many things against the Presbyteriall way as of engagements publike interest c. But let me a little examine whether you five can fitly be stiled Gods poore Exiles I thinke to speake properly you neither were Exiles nor poore for you were not banished nor forced out of your owne Laud neither by being brought into the High-Commission Court or by Letters missive and Attachments out against you as ever I heard but excepting M. Burroughes who fled in haste as being in dangers for words spoken you went at your own times over into Holland with all conveniences of your Families and other companie Among the Greekes Fuga was called exilium and so you flying out of the kingdome in that sense may be cal'd exiles but how ever in some sense
in as much as lay in you did not you so act for your owne opinions and Church way that you would have hazarded the Kingdome Religion and all rather then the losse of your Independencie which you knew the Scots were so averse unto 7. Whether have not some of you in Conferences with many good people and by discourses in private acâ—…ed for your selves and way by stumbling them in the point of a particular Church and in the point of coming to the Sacrament of the Lords Supper and by pleading for a Toleration of all opinions that may stand with saving Grace and doth none of you remember what was answered you that Poligâ—…mie might stand with saving Grace and must that be tolerated 8. Whether have not some of you tampered with some Parliament men about delaying the meeting of the Assembly and suggesting to them doubts and feares about it and whether in the Assembly have you not by all possible wayes both in opposing some orders of speaking but so many times to one point the sooner to bring things to an end and by other wayes all that you could delaied the proceedings of the Assembly and all this out of acting for your selves and way that so your party might increase and your opinions spread before the Government might be setled 9. Have not some of you out of acting for your selves and way endeavoured the bringing into the Assembly since the sitting of it some Independents to be members of it and upon their being stopped have not some of you earnestly dealt with some members of the House of Commons that they might passe their House and what could this be but out of acting for your selves and way 10. Whether have not you out of acting for your selves and way had many meetings and consultations both of writing letters into New-England for their help and furtherance and about what you should doe and how to order matters since the Scots must be sent for and since the Assembly could not be hindred how things might be managed and carried for the best advantage of your cause and way and whether was not this Apologeticall Narration one of the Products of your consultations Now unto these ten I might adde other Quaeres but shall reserve them to my Rejoynder these being sufficient to satisfie you and the Reader So that laying all these things together what did you meane or thinke with your selves when you writâ—… these passages could you imagine you danced in a net all this time and that men tooke no notice of you or that all had been forgotten that you had done and preacht or did you imagine your power was so great with the people having such a name that all would be taken for truth you writ or that your greatnesse was such that no man durst question what you had done or appeare against your Apologie or if they did they should but blast themselves among the people and the people would believe nothing against you what strange spirit possessed you to write thus For my part I feare not my name I have learned to trust God with it and I dare by the Grace and helpe of Gods Spirit deale with you and all of you in these Controversies But supposing all you affirme of your selves had been true eujus contrarium verum est as is too evident by what I have proved that you had neither preached printed nor acted personally for your selves and way yet all this forbearance might have been not from the grounds and reasons brought by you in this Section but from other principles of wisdome and policie as the more to ingratiate your selves with the Houses of Parliament and to insinuate into their favour and that you might the better make such an Apologie as this and make use of it to your advantage at such a time as this and I judge such considerations have restrained some of you and prevailed with you not to act so much as your fellowes and not so openly as otherwise you would especially knowing whilest you were in the Tyring-house unseene the Scene was full and the Tragedie went on there being no want of Actors on the open Stage to carry on your Church way As for instance Mr W. Mr P. Mr K. Mr B. Dr H. Mr L. Mr G. Mr C. Mr B. Mr P. Mr G. Mr W. Mr W. S. Mr C. Mr E. Mr C. Mr A. Mr L. cum multis aliis of whose preachings and acting for themselves and way in gathering of Churches c. and of books made by some of them and printed by others of them it would fill a book to enumerate particulars and to declare what hath been done in Citie Countrey Armies and in all places to make and increase parties and to occasion so great disturbance amongst all sorts as that it will be found a hard worke to settle the Government of the Church and to reduce the people And I confesse you having such choice of Instruments and under-worâ—…men to work by and to build your Babel I marvell you contented not your selves with onely casting the Modell and giving the pattern and aime to others but that you should appeare upon the workes your selves as often-times you did To your second main part in this Section the Provocations you have had all sorts of wayes to have preached printed and acted for your selves both by the Common misunderstandings and misrepresentations of your opinions and practises c. I must tell you I judge and that upon good grounds never men laying all things together consideratis considerandis had fewer provocations for considering you were but a few in comparison and going in a new different way from all the Reformed Churches and the destructivenesse of your principles to Reformation with the danger of them in drawing away and stealing our sheep from us and the contempt of our Ministerie occasioned by your principles among all the people generally of your way as also your leaving the land in the greatest need notwithstanding all these and many more that all the godly Ministers of City and Countrey should carry themselves towards you with that love respect fairnesse brotherly kindnesse as they did might have provoked you indeed but in another way then you expresse it And for the truth of this I appeale to your owne breasts and to the knowledge of my brethren and to these following demonstrations 1. There was a great deale of loving respects and faire carriage towards you both in admitting you into their Pulpits and in forbearing all things offensive to you and your party before the Sermons to gratifie you 2. There was a great deale of faire respects to you in admitting you into their Societie and publique meetings about the matters of Reformation 3. There was a generall silence by the Godly Ministers I feare unto sinfull in forbearing preaching against your points and that when some of you preached for your way and many Pamphlets were printed for it 4. The Ministers suffered some of you and no
are sufficiently knowne And however all these things of no other interest but a subsistance in our own land and of enjoying the ordinances of Christ and not knowing where else with safety health and livelihood to set our feet on earth be held forth as specious pretences to the Parliament and Reader to perswade and to allure them yet the bottome of all this desire of a toleration in England though concealed is that there is no other place on earth where you are like to propagate your way to gaine so great a party to enjoy such full and rich Congregations and to have that respect and applause in your way as in England and in England as London and the adjacent parts or where you can have those faire hopes and probabilities of drawing so great a part of a Kingdome to your Church-way as here and where if you goe on to act as diligently and politickly as you have done in these three yeares last past and the Ministers be as generally silent and the common people of the Kingdome come a little more to understand your principles and have time to digest and consider of the great liberty and power they have thereby the rest of the Kingdome may in time come to be beholding to you for a toleration of Presbyterie if it be established which you will as soone grant if you come to have power in your hands as you will Episcopacy and Popery many of your Church-way ordinarily affirming they had rather have Episcopacie then Presbyterie and it hath been affirmed to me by a Minister of note that a Minister of the Church-way preferred Popery in this Kingdome before Presbyterie for if Popery should come in it would be but short lived but Presbyterie was like to be long lived The Arminians in the Netherlands at first desired but a toleration no more but to be permitted to enjoy in some Churches of their own their consciences with peaceableneâ—… but afterwards that by the connivance and favour of the Magistrates they were in some Cities and places as Amsterdam c. grown to a great number and had a great power then they would not suffer noâ—… tolerate the orthodox Ministers but persecuted them and some were forced to flie as in the stories of the Netherlands is at large recorded And if ever the Independents by connivance or a toleration should come to have a power and strength considerable if they serve not us so I am much deceived All Sectaries and erroâ—…eous spirits who are but tolerated and not owned will watch all advantages to set up their own way as chiefe and when they have a power will be impetuous and violent to effect it as the Anabaptists in Germanie were the Arminians in Holland and the Antinomians and Familists in New-England As women out of their weakenesse and feare when they have power over any are most cruell so Sectaries out of their feare least a State may one time or other cast them out and not tolerate them will upon an advantage suppresse and destroy the orthodox and stablish their own 2. As for the matter it selfe contained in the close of your booke a Toleration of Independent Churches and government the scope and last end of this Apologie whereunto tends all the artifice and fallacies in the composure of it I shall lay downe some Reasons and grounds against it I cannot stand to handle the question at large about tolerations of different Religions or of divers Sects and opinions in one and the same Kingdome this answer being already a great deale longer then I intended it I cannot now open the tearmes and premise the distinctions as distinguishing concerning the nature and kind of errors concerning the persons erring concerning the kinds and degrees of toleration and coaction c. I shall reserve the full handling of this point whether toleration be lawfull to a particular Tractate I intend upon that subject In the meane time upon occasion of what you present here to the Parliament I shall humbly submit to their considerations these following particulars 1. A Toleration of Independent Churches and government with their opinions and practise is against the Magistrates duty laid downe in Scripture but for Magistrates by good lawes to command and require obedience to the government and Reformation upon good grounds judged to be according to the word of God and so established is lawfull and their duties For the clearing of which I premise two things which I suppose must needs be granted 1. That the Magistrate is custos ac vindeâ—… utriusque Tabula as is confessed by all orthodox Divines that the care of Religion belongs to him and that he is to looke to it that the Church of God and the Government of it be constituted and setled according to the Word and that the people may lead a peaceable and quiet life in all godlinesse and honestie for which end Princes and Magistrates are to make Lawes for the observing of the Worship and Government of Christs Church forbidding and punishing with religious severitie those things which are practised against the Word of God but commanding what is according to it this is one of the great services they yeeld to Christ as they are Magistrates and I find Augustine and other Divines giving that sense of Psal. 2. 10 11. of Kings and Iudges serving the Lord with feare and of Deut. 17. 19. of God commanding the King to read the booke of the Law that he may learn to observe the things which are written in it not onely as private men practising these and ordering their lives according to the Word but as Kings they should order their Office by the Word not onely by living holily for so they serve God as men but as Kings and Magistrates by making Lawes for the Worship of God and prohibiting the contrary 2. That the Reformation in Worship Government c. which shall be setled and established by the Parliament is judged and taken for granted by them to be according to the minde of Christ else why have they called so many able godly and learned Divines to consult with for that purpose and stood so much for a Reformation according to the Word and why else will they establish it if there be any other more agreeable to the Word so that whatsoever other Government after all debates and Reasonings is rejected and refused must be thought not to have such a ground in the Word for if it had why was it not established and owned but comes to seeke for a Toleration and Connivance Now then by vertue of many Scriptures both in the old and new Testament the Examples of the Kings of Judah in commanding and requiring all the people to yeeld to the Reformations made by them and in particular the Spirit of God commending Iosiah for making all Jerusalem and Benjamin to stand to the Covenant which he had made with God the fourth Commandement requiring of the Father of the Family that he see
all under his power and charge to worship God upon which learned Divines as Zanchius excellently show the dutie of Magistrates in reference to commanding and providing that their people shall worship God according to his will Rom. 13. 4. Ephes. 5. 11. 1 Tim. 5. 22. 2 Iohn 11. v. Revel 〈◊〉 20. with many other places in Scripture of removing away of evill and of not consenting to evill c the Parliament is bound to establish and to command obedience to that Reformation which is judged most agreeable to the Word and to suppresse and hinder all other It was excellently done by the Parliament to call together so many able godly and Orthodox Divines to debate and find out the mind and will of God for Doctrine Worship and Discipline and to give libertie to men of different judgements to bring in their grounds and after all wayes of enquiry and searching into truth and a Modell drawn up for them upon good grounds being satisfied 't is their dutie by their power and authoritie to bind men to the decrees of the Assembly and not to tolerate any other Doctrines Churches Worship or Government to be set up and exercised you ought not to suffer the weake to be destroyed nor the people to be drawn away by every wind of doctrine but when once upon good grounds the Reformation is concluded you must defend it against troublesome and turbulent spirits and in so doing God will be with you and subdue the people under you whereas if to please some people you suffer them to enjoy their own way God will not be well pleased with it neither can you answer it unto God You may lawfully nay ye ought in that which is good to compell men though they pretend conscience shall the errours of other mens consciences hindr you from yeelding that service which God requiteth of you may a Parliament displease God to please men or may they be pleaseâ—…s of other mens sins and wink at evill to content some persons No Parliaments in making lawes for Religion must depend on the will of God â—…led in his Word in the best and 〈◊〉 wayes communicated to them and not upon the consciences of some people 〈◊〉 The Toleration desired is against the solemne League and Covenant for Reformation taken by the Parliament and the Kingdome of England and Scotland and 〈◊〉 be coâ—…ed to without 〈◊〉 of that Oath and Covenant so that the Apologie and motion for a Toleration comes â—…o late the doore is shut against it the Kingdomes hands are bound so that if such a Toleration were not in itâ—… selfe unlawfull and against the dutie of the Magistrate yet now because of the Oath and Covenant 't is unlawfull so that whatever might have been granted before cannot now lest the Kingdome should be guilty before God of Covenant-breaking Now aâ—… Toleration and this moving for a Toleration by the Apologists is expresly against these branches of the Covenant 1. Against that clause in the first branch of endeavouring the Reformation of Religion in the Kingdomes of England and Ixeland in Doctrine Worship Government and Discipline according to the Example of the best Reformed Churches now in this Petition to both Houses you would be exempted from the Reformation of the best Reformed Churches so that unlesse you understand the Brownists New-England or your own Churches to be the best Reformed you have broken your Covenant but though you may understand it so and may be tooke the Covenant in that sense yet I suppose you cannot think the Paâ—…liament whom you sâ—… to for a Toleration took the best Reformed Churches in that acception but for the Reformed Churches so called and commonly knowne as of France c. so that their granting a Toleration would be against this clause of the best Reformed Churches 〈◊〉 't is expresly against another clause in the firsâ—… branch And shâ—…ll endeavouâ—… to bring the Churches of God in the three Kingdomes to the neerest Conjunction and Uniformity in Religion Confession of Faith Forme of Church Government Directory soâ—… Worship and Catechiâ—…ing Now if the Parliament hath covenanted so how can it grant a Toleration of so different a Forme of Church Government and Worship as the Independent way is from the Presbyteriall and how can you be excused from explicite formall breach of Covenant in this part of your Apologie having sworne and subâ—…bed to endeavour by all meanes to bring the Churches of God in these three Kingdomes to the neerest Conjunction and Uniformitie in Religion who in stead of so labouring and endeavouring or ever so much as trying whether you with the rest of the Churches may not be brought into a neere Conjunction and Uniformitie just before the time the Assembly was comming to fall upon these points in difference to put out this Apologie and to move for a Toleration before hearing what could be said to you for satisfaction or ever debating the points in the Assembly Is this to endeavour by all meanes to bring the Churches of God in the three Kingdomes to the neerest Conjunction and Uniformitie in Religion c. before so much as ever debating points to conclude magisterially as you doe in pages 22. and 24. against the Reformed Churches and to desire an exemption from Conjunction and Uniformitie with the rest of the Churches in this Kingdome 3. 'T is against that clause in the second branch that we shall in like manner without respect of persons endeavour the extirpation of schisme and whatever shall be found contrary to found doctrine and the power of Godlinesse lest we partake in other mens sins Now that which you move for is schisme and contrary to sound Doctrine the Church-way being a schisme besides many of your Church Principles are against sound Doctrine and the power of Godlinesse as that in your Apologie about the subject of Excommunication as that of a few people having power to joyne together and set up a Church and chuse what Ministers they will as that of the Independencie of particular Congregations from any Authenitative power c. so that the Parliament in the midst of their Reformation and blessed Conjunction according to the Word of God with the Reformed Churches should in allowing you a Toleration suffer a formall schisme both in Worship and Government in the midst of these Kingdomes 4ly This Toleration sued for is against a part of the fourth branch endeavouring the discovery of such as have been evill Instruments by hindring Reformation of Religion or making any faction or parties amongst the people contrary to this League and Covenant Now the Parliament is bound by this against all persons and things which hinder the Reformation and makes any faction or parties amongst the people now whether a Toleration granted yea but moved for would not hinder the Reformation of Religion and make Faction and parties amongst the people let it be considered I confesse I wonder how the Apologists ever took this Covenant or having taken
unlesse they be Church members with many more all slat against the Primitive patterns hath ever been from first to last a fountaine of evill and a root of bitternesse of many bitter divisions and separations amongst themselves of manifold errors and other mischiefes in those Churches and places where they lived God having alwayes witnesses against it and never blessing it with peace and truth I shall not need to relate the histories of the Anaptists the highest forme of Independencie and the Church way what evils they fell into and the mischiefes they brought upon Germanie and how God cursed and scattered them As for the Brownists the middle forme of Independencie the Apologists themselves confesse they had fatall miscarriages and shipwracks And I could tell a sad storie but that it would be now too long even from Bolton and Browne the first and prime leaders down to the present Brownists at Amsterdam of the Apostasies Heresies Separations and bitter divisions with the untimely fearefull ends which have fallen out amongst them but in respect my booke so much exceeds the proportion intended I shall reserve that for a more distinct handling And for the semi-Brownists and Independents so cal'd by way of distinction they have not been free The Churches of the Apologists have had their bitter divisions and fearefull miscarriages as the Reader may remember in these pages of this present Answer pag. 35 36 37 142 143 144. with some erroneous conceits fallen into and preached in one of their Churches So in the Churches of New-England there have been so many errors differences and evils that I beleeve had we but a true impartiall storie of New-England for the first seven or eight yeares after they were come to any number we should have the strangest storie next that of the Anabaptists and old Brownists one of them in the world in a word they were brought by their Independencie and Church principles next dore to ruine both spirituall and temporall the sad experience of which hath made them wheele about of later yeeres towards Presbyteriall government and in stead of that not being yet formally come to it to take aliquid analogum in the first constituting of Churches making Ministers c. which at first they did not and to give more power to Classes and Synods then they did many yeares agoe as by comparing some Letters from thence in those times written by Ministers over into England and Mr Cottons late booke will be evident In a word he that will observe it shall find the end of Independencie infinite schismes separations errors inconstancie and uncertainty in judgement yea barbarisme and confusion and the Toleration of it by this State would be the opening of a sloud-gate to many other errors and evills besides what evill is in that being a way all along wherein it â—…iffers from the reformed Churches either beside or against the word of God And should the Parliament which God forbid and I hope is farre from their thoughts give the Independents a Toleration of their way and Churches they should give they know noâ—… what having never yet spoken out all that they hold this Apologie containing but a little part of their way besides taking in their second great principle page 10. Apolog of not making their present judgement and practise a binding law for the future the Parliament may grant grosse Brownisme Anabaptisme within a short time many falling off according their principles of new light to cast off communion with their own Churches as some of Mr Sympsons have done and let it be but remembred what I now write whether some of the Apologists if they come not in and joyne with the reformed Churches doe not within a few yeeres goe a great way further I think had they staid together in Holland till this time without any hopes of a Toleration here some of them had gone farre by this time of day Anointing with oyle was begun to be brought in Hymnes had been moved for in one of their Churches and if I may beleeve the report of a religious Person in an open company affirming it againe and againe when I doubted it that a member of the Church of Aâ—…nheim who was also named to me related that had they staid there a little longer the ordinance of Hymnes had been practised amongst them one being chosen and agreed upon by the Church to exercise that ordinance And I am able to demonstrate it that the Apologists keeping but to their principles besides the principle of a Reserve must yet goe a great way further and supposing the Parliament should make a proposition to them Wee will grant you this and this and so which be the present principlâ—…s you hold forth but if you bring in any thing more or goe farther then your Churches shall be dessolved and we will recall what we granted you because we will be sure to know what we allow in matters of Religion be at a certaintie for that I doe not thinke the Apologists would accept of a Toleration upon those tearmes and such a condition The beginnings of errors commonly are most modest but let alone some time they exceed all bounds how farre most of the Arminians proceeded beyond what Arminius held or themselves at first the learned books of many Divines and experience showes and if a Toleration were granted to the Apologists and all those of their communion to exercise their consciences I feare before a yeere went about many would turne Anabaptists c. but I desire rather to pray against a toleration then to prophecie of the evill of it But supposing the best that can be that the State had an Assurance the Apologists and their Churches would not goe one step further then now they hold the Toleration should not be made use of to any further errors yet the Parliament should not allow it unlesse they would grant a Toleratiod of Brownisme and if Brownisme be a bitter error and way then the way of the Apologists is not very sweet their way being but Browns younger brother agreeing with the Brownists in the nature and definition of the visible Church in the Independent power of a particular Congregation in the way of making Officers in the way of their ordinancâ—…s as Prophesying in the way of Forms of Prayer in the Sacraments none to be admitted but Church members cum multis alijs and I desire the Apologists to give any materiall difference however their grounds are different and they doe not goe so farre in consequences nor are not so grosse between their Churches and the Brownists As for that of the power of the people and the Officers in giving the power to the Officers but the Brownists to the people I answer however the Apologists differ in that point from the Brownists in words phrases methods and give us many fine words and flattering similitudes going about yet the truth is they differ not in substance in their practise but all comes to one end and
issue and all is resolved into the body of the Congregation and their power from first to last amongst the Apologists as well as amongst the Brownists though here 't is carried in a fairer way as fine wits must doe and that they may have something to say wherein they are not Brownists but of this the Reader may see more in this Answer page 204 205 206. 8. The Presbyteriall way the order and governmeâ—… of the reformed Churches hath been countenanced from Heaven and blessed from above with the preservation of the truth and unitie of Religion against heresies and errors in Doctrine Idolatry and corruption in worship and all sorts of sects and â—…chisme it hath been free of those mischiefes and evills of errors and divisions which the Independent Churches have swarmed with and that through a long tract of time and the experience of almost a hundred yeeres together In reformed Churches where this government hath been set up and hath had its free way and exercise even where it hath wanted the advantages of the Magistrate being a member of the Church and hath had many disadvantages in regard of the spirits and dispositions of the people with many temptations to errors yet it hath in those places kept out errors and schismes preserved puritie of doctrine and peace For example in the Churches of France it is evident by many yeeres experiences though their Princes be popish and they live in the midst of Papists yet by Gods blessing upon their government and order their Churches have been and are pure in doctrine few or none falling to Popery Arminianisme or to sects and schâ—…smes and when any errors doe arise amongst them yet by meanes of that governement they are soone suppressed and prevented from spreading It was the observation of Beza in his time of the French Churches though France was grievously afflicted and oppressed by many yet for that which concerned Religion it was free from all troubles and stirrs And yet notwithstanding there was nothing wanting of all those things by which Satan might easily draw and move the French to all kind of troubles for example an inbred naturall lightnesse in that Nation wits very ready for subtiltie and â—…iceties the mind of the Magistrates intent also upon it that all manner of wayes the Christian Churches might destroy themselves with their inward dissentions notwithstanding all this no strength of the adversaries hitherto no not in the midst of all the tempests of warre hath been able to beare thorough the most strong buâ—…warke and wall of Ecclesiasticall discipline For the Church of Scotland I have heard it often and that from good hands that during the free use and exercise of Presbyteriall government there never any heresie or schisme tooke the third man but by meanes of that governement it hath been pul'd up at first and either the particular person broaching the errour recovered or however prevented before three have beene infected with it Beza in his first Epistle gives a notable testimony to this government by the blessing of God upon it in the City of Geneva Geneva be it spoken without offence hath rather escaped then overcome all the inward tempests against Religion so great as no City perhaps under Heaven hath done the like it never yet felt any differences nor contentions of the Pastors amongst themselves in points of doctrine 't is free from the furies of the Anabaptists the contagion of the Libertines the blasphemies of Servetians a City otherwise open to all strangers and comers and for that cause very fit and subject to the wiles of Satan But truly it owes all this by Gods blessing to the Ecclesiasticall discipline duely and diligently observed which also now causes that all sorts almost out of all nations under Heaven there gathered together in peace and in true liberty of conscience doe willingly accord together The Commissioners of the Church of Scotland tell us that this government hath made the Church of Christ terrible as an army with banners and like a strong and fenced City against which the adversaries have despaired to prevaile but by making a breach in this wall and where they have gained ground or gotten any advantage either the wall hath not been built or being built hath been broken down or not vigilantly kept by the watchmen But there will be objected against this a passage lately printed in a book of Mr Simpsons that there have beene as great defections both of Ministers and people unto errors under Presbyteriall government as under any other as it is cleare in the Low-Countries where so many Ministers and people turned Arminians Papists Socinians I have instanced in severall reformed Churches and showed Gods blessing upon Presbyteriall government here 's only one instance among all the reformed Churches brought against it and to that I shall give these three answers Though the Churches in the Low-Countries are Presbyteriall yet withall ther 's a Toleration of other Churches and government there which is one of the causes of it and hinders Presbyteriall government A Toleration will spoile any Church and government if Presbyteriall government be setled and a Toleration given in this Land that will marre all so that the Parliament may be pleased to take notice by this and observe the difference between those Churches which have no Tolerations as Scotland Geneva and the Low-Countries which grant a Toleration the one are pure in doctrine c. the other makes Ministers and people turne Arminians Socinians c. 2 Answ. There 's another Reason why it may so fall out in the Low-Countries because Presbyteriall government hath not its free course there in Synods but 't is much disturbed over 't is in France Geneva Scotland whereas by their Canons and Constitutions in the Netherlands there should be a Nationall Synod once in three yeeres they have not nor cannot procure one in twenty yeeres and upwards and whereas Provinciall Synods should be yeerely they have them in some Provinces but once in five and seven yeeres besides there are other disturbances in Presbyteriall government which hinders the free course of it in Holland many encroachments are made upon the rights of their Church due to them by vertue of their discipline and heretofore established In a word that Anabaptisticall and Familisticall spirit in many and that corrupt spirit and principles in others with those principles of Toleration doth much check and stop Presbyteriall government from having its perfect worke and bringing forth its full effects The true Reason of so many Ministers and people turning Arminians and Socinians in the Low-Countries was the want of Synods which Arminius and his followers alwayes declined and by flattering the Magistrates kept off for many yeares in which time so many fell whereas if Presbyteriall government had had its course and a Nationall Synod had been called yea but a Provinciall for the Arminians to have answered in at first before it had so much
grace may that be tolerated what think you of many Arminian Tenets some Lutheran opinions Antinomian Doctrines and other dangerous points held by great Schollars as by Brentius Osiander Flaccius Illyricus may not some of these opinions stand with grace and might not some of these have grace and must these now be allowed to be preached in a Kingdome that hath established Articles of Religion and a Confession of Faith and shall such preachers gather people into Churches if all points may be preached and Churches allowed for all Doctrines that are not against fundamentals and that may stand with saving grace there will be a strange face of Protestant Reformed Churches infinite novelties may be broached and great stirs caused in a Kingdome I desire you in your Reply to state your lesser differences and to set downe your Boundaries what and what not and accordingly I shall answer In the meane time from these few hints you and the Reader may see besides the unlawfulnesse there 's difficultie where to fasten a Toleration Now in the close of my discourse against Toleration I take the humble boldnesse to represent to the Honourable Houses of Parliament that t is the Magistrates dutie not to suffer schismes heresies and other errours to grow and increase in the Church for as they are Magistrates they truly serve God whose Ministers they are and kisse the Son in revenging the injuries wantonly committed against God and his truth and in preserving the externall politie of Doctrine and manners one of the great services Princes and Parliament performe to Christ in reference to their great and high calling consists in making Lawes for the observing the Worship and Government of his House and by Lawes prohibiting all other worships and governments And I humbly beseech the Parliament seriously to consider the depths of Satan in this designe of a Toleration how this is now his last plot and designe and by it would undermine and frustrate the whole work of Reformation intended 't is his Master-piece for England and for the effecting of it he comes and moves not in Prelates and Bishops not in furious Anabaptists c. but in holy men excellent Preachers moderate and faire men not for a toleration of heresies and grosse opinions but an allowance of a latitude to some lesser differences with peaceablenesse this is candidus ille Diabolus as Luther speakes and mâ—…ridianus Diâ—…bolus as Iohannes Gersonius anâ—… Bâ—… expresse it comming under the merits of much suffering and well deserving clad in the white garments of Innocencie and Holinesse In a word could the devill effect a Toleration he would think he had gained well by the Reformation and made a good exchange of the Hierarchie to have a Toleration for it I am conâ—…ident of it upon serious thoughts and long searching into this point of the evils and mischiefe of a Toleration that if the devill had his choice whether the Hierarchie Ceremonies and Lyturgie should be established in this Kingdome or a Toleration granted he would chuse and preferre a Toleration before them and would willingly part with and give up all those for a Toleration of divers Sects and different Churches To conclude if the way of Independencie be of God and the Apologists can make that good let it be established by the Parliament and let 's all come to that if it be not why then should it be tolerated and why did the Apologists move for a Toleration before that ever it came to be debated and argued in the Assembly And now for a conclusion and closing up this Answer to the Apologeticall Narration I might as some Authors doe in answering Bookes gather together and draw up into one all the maine particulars of the Apologie animadverted upon and put them under certaine heads and ranke them in their severall formes and so present a Synopsis of them to both Houses and the Reader whereby they might have all in their eye at once see much in a little As 1. all the expressions of the high praises of themselves and their owne partie scattered up and downe in the Apologie 2. The Aspersions Depressions Insinuations both open and more secret of the Reformed Churches and of the Assembly 3. The crossings and interfearings of some passages in the book with others 4. The plaine and manifest untruths expressed in many pages 5. All the Reservations and Concealments of matters both of opinions and practises in the Church-way 6. The double doubtfull expressions both in words and matter 7. The mistating of the questions in difference both on their owne side and the Presbyterians stating their owne differences with the lowest and the Reformed Churches at the highest 8. The generall expressions without comming down to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which being deducted and extracted from the Apâ—…ie what remainâ—… behind saving some few argumenâ—…s hinted but a just testimoâ—… of the Parliament and Assembly with a 〈◊〉 character of the people and multitude and a brand upon the old separation which paâ—… also of the Parliament Assembly People and Separation 〈◊〉 brought in both the praise of 〈◊〉 and the dispraise of the other in reference to the magnifying and commending the more the 〈◊〉 and patience c. of the Apologists but I spare the wise Reader may observe the passages and I have animadverted upon them all along in my Answer I could have made one part of my Answer to this Apologie 〈◊〉 strange though â—…ue paraphrase upon it and andinâ—… 〈◊〉 have 〈◊〉 the Narration of themselves for the most part contrary But I shall reserve that with some other things I have yet to say iâ—… matter of fact till I put out my Rejoynder to their Reply In 〈◊〉 meane 〈◊〉 I shall conclude this Antapologie with â—…rning my 〈…〉 by dissolving your Churches and comming in to us and that you may repent and recall this Apologie I will represent to you the greatnesse of your sin and folly in making the Apologie and it stands in these particulars 1. It was an unseasonable disorderly work for the time and way of it 2. 'T is a Narration full of mentall Reservations high praises of your selves but censuring and scandalizing the Reformed Churches of Christ. 3. There are many untruths in it and that not only where you make naked relations oâ—… things but where you make professions before God and the world yea â—…here you make serious Invocations of God to aâ—…est them and men also and all this is done publikely by printing and deliberately and upon a designe to take the more with the people and to make way the better for a â—…oleration 4. There is a breach of the solemne Covenant subscribed by you especially in that clause of the first branch we shall endeavour to bring the Churches of God in the three Kingdomes to the neerest Conjunction and Uniformitie in Relegion Confission of Faith and Forme of Church-Government in stead of which before ever you â—…o much as tried and endeavoured it by debating those