says the King of France will believe what he pleases For his Majesty well knows the Pope gave away France formerly fomented War against Hen. 4. and would do the same against him were it not for his Power and Religion REPLY IX I shewed you before in the sixth Reply that though the Reformed have actually taken away from their lawful Governours so many Dominions yet the Pope never gave away but England and France which nevertheless are still under their proper Soveraigns Consider then whether since the light of the Gospel appeared the Protestant or Popish manner of dealing has been most destructive to Princes and judge if this be an Answer to my demand which was Whether France acknowledging the Pope be not as absolute as Sweden or Denmark that are Protestants If so it follows then that Popery does not enslave a King We are beholden to the Minister for confessing the King of France is of the same Religion with the Pope for I have heard some in England say he was a Protestant Thanks be to God there is no danger of a breach between Rome and France in matters of Faith for as the very Gazets told us An. 1664 when the French Army was in Italy The King having owned the condemnation of Jansenius even then sent to the Pope to prosecute the Jansenists in France Henry the Eighth will be a warning to his Neighbours for revolting hereafter from the Church for instead of a little Ecclesiastical dependence on the Sea of Rome he has embroiled England in perpetual confusion about Religion millions of Sects daily dividing and subdividing each of which pretend they are in the right and each quote Scripture for their Opinions And by the way Reader be pleased to remember that had not this King of ours destroyed Religious Houses all the truly devout Sectaries at present would have voluntarily been cloister'd there who now distract both the Kingdom themselves for having no quiet place to vent that zeal which boyls within they become a prey to a few wicked men that blow up their well-meaning Piety into disorders and sedition Nay many of the discontented Factious themselves who now lie open to the sway and hurry of their own passions would have been glad of such a retreat honorable to all even from the Monarch to the Pesant Therefore I see now why Speed a Protestant when he made an end of his Catalogue of the destroyed Abbies spoke in this manner We have laid to your view a great part of King Henry's ill the waste of so much of Gods revenue however abused But Cambden is yet more tart for he says That many Religious places Monuments of our Forefathers Piety and Devotion to the honour of God and Propagation of Christian faith c. were in a moment prophaned and the Riches disperst which had been consecrated to God since the English Nation first profest Christianity SECT X. APOLOGY Nor will ever the House of Austria abjure the Pope to secure themselves of the fidelity of their Subjects ANSWER X. To this he says the Austrian Family being so linckt to the Pope by possessing Naples Sicily and Navar by his Gift and theire Subjects also being Papists it were a mad way to secure themselves by changing Religion But what is that says he to England where since the extrusion of that trash we call the Catholick Faith the King and people are no more Papists and having been often troubled by us have reason by experience to fear our designs REPLY V 10. To this I reply That the Spaniard being now in actual possession can as well defend these places were he a Protestant as Millan Flanders c. which are not the Popes gift or as well as other Reformed Princes have done their Countries And for the Subjects being Papists that is nothing For all subjects before Luthers time were Papists also The Minister therefore grants me here all that from the first I desired For if our former Kings were considerable abroad and as safe at home as since the change of Religion If the King of France be as absolute as Denmarck or Sweden and if the House of Austria cannot better secure the fidelity of their Subjects by becoming Protestants then by continuing Papists I say it must necessarily follow That Kings and Kingdoms by being Papists are not less absolute then if Reformed and by the same Consequence their Subjects not one whit faithfuller to their Lords by being Protestants then if they were Papists Tell me then where is the Temporal advantage of Reformation and whether our Answerer has not bauld long in vain since he now by this grants me that Kings may be absolute and Subjects faithful under Popery and yet lately he affirmed That Popery is inconsistent with Government by reason of Princes dependence on the Pope in Ecclesiastical matters and that all Papists are prone to Rebellion by the Determination of our Councels Bulls and Divines But the Minister says What is all this to England where Prince and people are Protestants I answer 't is thus much to England That now it is plain 't is an errour that Popery is inconsistent with Government and it also shews that Princes get no power in the long-run by reforming but on the contrary perpetual disorders follow How dangerous we have been to our Protestant Princes shall be discust in the Reflexion on the Popish misdemeanours in the Reigns of Queen Elizabeth and King James But how faithful and serviceable we were to King Charles the First and Second all Europe has sufficiently declared in our behalves SECT XI APOLOGY We shall always acknowledge to the whole World that there have been as many brave English in this last Century as in any other place whatsoever Yet since the exclusion of the Catholick Faith there has been that committed by those who would be fain called Protestants that the wickedest Papist at no time dreamt of ANSWER XI Here he asks what may that be for four or five of our Kings of our own Religion have been murthered by Papists that lately Hen. 4. of France was killed by Ravillac and. Hen. 3. by Frier Clement And besides this we have killed by whole Townships in England Ireland France and Piedmont REPLY 11. What a Volume might there be here writ if every matter mentioned were to be fully discust But these are the artifices of the Brethren that when they know not what to say run to another thing in hopes to puzzle an ordinary Reader who cannot imagine hearing so great a buzze but that there must be something at least of real My assertion in the Apology was That our former English Papists never did such villanies as have been committed since the Reformation To this he answers nothing but impertinently runs to the private Murthers of some of our Kings Is this proportionable Good Reader Who knows not that the Murtherers of Ed. 2. Ric. 2. and Hen. 6. were so conscious of their wickedness that
not their powerful Rebellion let their Religion have been what it would that drew them into this ill-machinated destruction And by the way see how simple the cavil of this Minister is who says I call it ill-machinated because it was done by halves The action was wicked and a Cabinet-Plot or else there is no such thing in Nature neither did it want condemning by several famous Catholiques themselves who would doubtless have been silent had the Pope so publickly rejoyced at the news as the Minister would fain have us believe The King in Vindication of the cruelty laid to his charge gives these Reasons to the World That though every body saw how horribly the Rebels had used him yet it was not his design to Massacre so many Hugonots but only to cut off some Heads of the Party who so highly fomented the Sedition this made him cause Coligni to be shot the chief Rebel of thē all but the bullet only breaking his arm his Partizans grew to such a rage that they threatned a present War and destruction to him and his therefore he was necessitated to what he did viz. immediately to destroy those that had vowed his ruine Now to demonstrate that is was not his intention the Kings friends farther said That had he intended a general Massacre from the beginning it had been folly to shoot the Admiral so many days before the total execution because this would have alarmed the Party and given occasion to many to get away as in truth not a few did the day before the bloody night Reader I know not whether this Declaration of the King be true or not but this I am sure the action was unchristian though there were never greater Rebels then these Hugonots for they not only fought many Battles with their Prince and fortified many of his Towns against him but besides all this brought forreign Forces into France as Ruyters from Germany and English from us and because all things are lawful to the Saints they delivered up Havre de Grace to Queen Elizabeth by which we had a new footing in France even we the profest enemies of the Nation Nay they began first to Massacre Catholiques in Paris and also Coligni and Beza got Poltrot to murther the Duke of Guise father to him that was Killed at Blois This the Assassine openly confest at his death being after executed for the fact By force then and such tricks tyring out their Kings they got several Priviledges and Edicts but God send me and my Relations to live for ever in servitude rather then to obtain liberty by such strange and dissalowable courses And truly I doubt not since this Minister can justifie these Agreements but he would if the Four Bills had passed at the Isle of Wight vindicate the proceedinghs and cite those Acts with as much confidence as if they had been obtained without Force in time of Peace and quiet Had King James lived in our days and seen how the same pretences with those of the Hugonots viz. Conscience and the Liberty of the Subject had like to have ruined his Family I do believe they would have found small comfort from any Vindication of his I do therefore openly affirm that if any Englishman who has considered the villany of our times does still justifie Brave Coligni and his Hugonots he has either been an apparent Rebel or is so in his heart and will shew his Teeth upon the first advantage that shall be offered SECT 19. APOLOGY May it not as well be said in the next Catholick Kings Reign that the Duke of Guise and the Cardinal Heads of the League were killed for their Religion also Now no body is ignorant that 't was their factious Authority which made the jealous Prince design their deaths though by unwarrantable means ANSWER XIX He says the Guises were not killed for their Religion for they were killed by one of their own Religion as much bent against Protestants as they That Papists hated Hen. 3. only for sparing the Blood of Protestants and not declaring his Protestant Heir uncapable of Succession That for these causes the Guises by the Popes consent who calls them the Macchabees of the Church entred into the Holy League and called in the Spaniards and Savoyards to maintain War against him and deprive him of his Kingdom and Life Whereupon the jealous Prince as I favourably call him dealt with them as they had done with the Protestants But their case he says was so different from the Protestants that he wonders I should mention it Then he tells us the Pope excommunicated the King for this action and gave nine years Indulgence to his Subiects to fight against him foretelling as a Pope might do without Astrology that ere long he should come to a fearful end and this he says hapned for the Subjects earned the Indulgence and a Frier fulfilled the Prophesie This action the Pope in a Speech called the work of God and for its wonderfulness compared it with the Incarnation or Resurrection preferring his courage before Eleazars or Iudiths and declaring the King who profest he died in the Faith of the Roman Catholick Church to have died in the sin against the Holy Ghost Lastly He asks whether it may not be said Papists cannot live without persecuting Protestāts whē a Popish King is stab'd and damned for not persecuting them enough REPLY 19. Here is a great deal of cry and little wool for I have often said the Pope may have his frailties as well as other men and does not the Minister know he is a Temporal Prince also and in that capacity may have intrigues with his Neighbours What is this to our Religion more then if the King of Spain should make use of the Politicks too far Again if the Pope as our Archbishop all Countries being in his Province should commit humane indiscretions Why were we to be more blamed for it then Durham Chester and Carlisle ought to be for their Religion because their Metropolitan Williams joyned with the Rebels against King Charles of happy Memory I never approved the procedure of the Guises in their League and have always said they were most insolent Ministers of State to Hen. 3. but when the Duke and Cardinal were murthered at Blois by the King their Successors learnt of the Hugonots to run into a formal and open War And truly my inference I conceive was pertinent concerning the Massacre of the one and murther of the other though the Parson thinks it something strange For in this Example the Outers and the Outees the Hugonots and Guises were killed by their Kings Now since both Parties were prodigious in power able to cope with the Prince 't would be as ridiculous to say that because the Hugonots were destroyed they suffered for their Faith as that the Heads of the League were killed for their Religion Davila tells us That the Pope only refused to absolve Henry the Third saying that he could not be
to the right or via juris determine the nice pretensions of each party yet this does not argue but that he would side as to action or via facti with his Prince against any person whatsoever And thus we daily see the French do who swear they cannot tell whether the Law called Salique be forged or whether in Justice the now Male-Line or the English because descended from the Heirs general ought to have the Kingdom but still they declare they will fight for their present Monarch against all Mankind This I say is the sense of the Author of the Exhortation and this I dare ingage he shall subscribe to Now concerning Philanax how poorly it is answered I believe the Minister would be ashamed to confess and yet how poorly soever he has made use of it Nay of the most contemptible and groundless follies in the whole Book I am sure the man needed not to have challenged us into the fair field of Controversie having there-in been more then Combatants ever since the breaking out of Luther Nor can there be any Argument of more generous bravery then this That though our Priests in England have been hunted from hole to hole their Papers often seized some in the midst of their works hanged no Library no Press and if to day well settled perchance forc'd on the morrow to flie yet for all these disavantages which no Protestant feels they never omitted to write things of use or to answer all sorts of Books that durst appear against our Religion or manners Fear not therefore good Minister that either Clergy or Laity will be behindhand with you in this affair and I think Dr. Pierce will tell you he found it to some purpose from both Nor shall you Sir whilst I live be ready again as soon as you please want an humble Servant to shew you your many willful errors and mistakes THE POSTSCRIPT My Lords and Gentlemen YOu have now had a short view of the malice of the Answerer and of our condition nor have I troubled you with points of Divinity it being out of my Road and more particulary belonging to them who are called to be Guides and make it their Profession to studie Controversie The search into History and Annals of Nations is the fit employement of men of Quality for by it having a view of all that is past we presently find what profits your Country and how good men by false representations may pass for abominable even in the thoughts of sober people In this sort who have ever suffered more then we for often the best of our fellow-Subjects having drawn in with their first milk an ill opinion of our manners have continued in the same sentiment till by long experience they plainly found the contrary How opposite is Popery noised to the Grandeur of Kings and yet we see That Kings were never greater than then What exclamations are there to this day against us for our stirs in the beginning of Reformation though it is evident it proceeded not from precepts of Faith but from a natural impulse to oppose Novelties Nay the efforts of our Ancestors for the Royal House of Scotland are laid to our charge as High-Treason but the putting up of Iane Gray for the ProtestaÌ„t Interest was justice even by the preaching of Dr. Ridley And moreover though but thirteen Papists were drawn into the powder Treason by the dexterity of our Enemies yet we all even the Children of many of the great Catholiques that were to have been destroyed by the Traytors are still held guilty of this Original sin After our proneness to Rebellion in which how little we are faulty and how much others have been let the World judge there 's no Principle possesses the imagination of Englishmen so fully as that we delight in Blood and that persecuting of men is a part of our Doctrine What cries therefore have been against they days of Queen Mary as if her cruelty were unparallell'd when as I have made it appear that more Catholiques have died by Protestants then of them by us and that since the exclusion of the Pope there has been a greater quantity of Blood iudicially spilt amongst us then from the Conversion of England to the Reign of Henry the Eighth The Massacre of France is prov'd you see to have beeÌ„ no effect of ReligioÌ„ but an indirect endeavour to suppress RebellioÌ„ Nor are we in England abominating the fact more guilty of the Irish Cruelties then is the Protestant Faith for what was done at Amboyna For my own part I not only detest Blood but find all Catholicks do for if in many Countries where the Prince and people as I shewed you before are Catholicks the Protestants have not only open Churches but also publick employments and in no place this is granted by the Reformed to Papists then must it needs follow that we are much kinder to you then you to us even in the matters of Religion Besides this Catholicks are so tender that the Inquisition it self is permitted in no Kingdom where Heresie is numerous nor ought we to be blamed if in a Country wholly obedient to the Church we strive to keep out all other Sects and opinions This cannot be jniustice because to all Mankind we grant the same liberty Who is it that morally blames the Moors of Affrick being of one Profession for keeping out even the Gospel it self Or who is it that says the Swedes ar inhumane because none except Lâ—therans shall live among them God alone is to judge hereafter of mens neglecting means In England therefore where all fell not from Popery there is not the same just motive for punishment and certainly it is severity in the highest degree to prosecute us with fire and sword as if we were an upstart people that brought in a strange Religion not finding it here before Ethelbert the first English King that profest Christianity and converted also by a Monk never persecuted his Pagan Subjects because their Religion was in possession and yet no consideration is thought fit for Papists though our most fundamental Laws have establisht this Faith and the maintenance of it sworn unto since the Conquest by at least twenty of our Monarchs Catholicks consider Sectaries as Magistrates do Rebels for where they are but very few they may perchaÌ„ce all suffer according to the establishtt Laws of a NatioÌ„ but if they grow numerous pity causes us now to punish nobody with death but theÌ„ prayers theÌ„ preaching then Books c. are the fittest Arms to destroy theÌ„ This makes us severe in Spain and Italy and this merciful in FraÌ„ce Germany c. yet here in our Country there are Sanguinarie Laws against Lay-men and our Priests have been handled with more seuerity then Iames Naylor or any of his Disciples What advaÌ„tage will PersecutioÌ„ bring but to make us glory that we suffer for Christ nor has it ever yet lessned our nomber No
eager Assertors of Legal Liberties Seven Chapters of his Treatise are against Papists and all taken out of the Answerer of the Apology therefore since I find it hath weight in the opinion of one lest more weak Brethren should fall I thought fit to take some pains thus to remove the cause I was forced to go the insipid way of Section by Section well knowing that some people not finding the Solution to follow the Objection would sooner haesitate and doubt Insipid I call this Method because there is no art or contrivance in it nor is it possible but the best Reply in the World must be then frigidly stiff when the Adversary in the Paragraph has no Spirit in him I have not Printed the Answer verbatim for that would be too tedious but have so contracted it that I challenge the Author himself to find any thing left out that might have added force to the Argument The Books I use in Citations are all Protestant except Davilah impartial as the reformed confess for though he is acknowledged to be a Creature and adorer of Katherine de Medices yet concerning her he speaks home even in many private intrigues which might have been well omitted Him only I quote about the Hugonots Rebellion but their actions are so villanously notorious that any Author shall be-sufficient for that purpose I must needs say I have had no little trouble in this Composition fearing the Bulk would be voluminous for by Nature I hate superfluities and always strive to crowd my matter into the narrowest room imaginable In this Work I had still the disgustful vexation how to omit and yet be still intelligible For I dare affirm had I writ all I could upon this Subject and followed to the utmost the disingenious digressions of the Answerer I should have swell'd to the bigness of any Folio extant I have nevertheless past by nothing material and hope this thin Octavo will be both useful and satisfactory to you since it contains the whole accusation in practice charged upon the English Catholicks I have urged nothing as I said before but what I prove out of the Record of a violent Protestant or a natural deduction from it and that you may upon occasion find each particular matter here follow the Contents themselves in order 1. Whether Papists were necessitated farther then in Duty to fight for their Soveraign Pref. 2. Concerning stirs by Papists in the beginning of the Reformation Pref. 3. Concerning the Irish Rebellion Rep. 1. 4. Mr. Du Molins Canonical french integrity in his allegations agains Papist's Rep. 3. He is endanger'd by his owne baite Rep. 35. 5. Whether Papists die in England for their Conscience or for Treason Rep. 4. 6. About the Oath of Allegeance and dispensing with Vows Rep. 5. 7. Whether their General Councils Decretals and Divines teach Papists Rebellion and deposing Kings And in the Theory and Practise whether Papists or Protestants have been most in fault Rep. 6. 8. Whither Papist's govern'd the civiliz'd world And of theire Ignorance Rep. 7. 9. Whether Protestant Princes are more absolute then the Popish Pref. and Rep. 9. 10. 10. About Q. Maries Persecution and whether she or the Reformed Government spilt most Blood for Religion Rep. 11. 11. Whither Papist's caus'd the war in the three Kingdomes Rep. 13. 12. Whether Papists were connivers in the late Troubles Rep. 15. 13. Whether Papists twice converted England from Paganism Rep. 16. 14. Whether Popish or Protestant Governments are kinder to their dissenting Subjects Rep. 17. Postscript 15. Concerning the French Massacre Rep. 18. 19. 20. 16. The Popish misdemeanors in Q. Elizabeths Reign and their then Plea Rep. 22. 17. How Protestants have used their Popish Princes here in England Rep. 22. 18. About the Powder-Treason Rep. 28. 19. About Hubert the Frenchman who was hang'd for burning London Rep. 35. 20. Concerning the Catalogue of the Papists that died for their King and of the Protestants also that died in that bed of Honour Rep. 48. 21. Of the Papist's that leave their Religion why Rep. 48. Sect. 5. Many other things of note are here handled in several places The Printer to the Reader I Had directions to add Figures to the Apology here before Printed intire which might correspond to each Answer to the end you might know what the Answerer strives to confute But because this would be no little trouble to you to turn and return in the reading of the Book I have therefore reprinted the Apology dividing it into several Sections corresponding both with the Answer and Reply This will be I am sure of no little conveniency to you and so farewel THe Title which the Minister has prefixt to his Book is The late Apology in behalf of the Papists reprinted and answered in behalf of the Royallists Now I beseech you Reader having read the Apology through what injury has any good man done him by it But besides how extravagant is that beginning for to write against Papists in Vindication of the Royallists is like the defending of King Charles by the opposing of Charles Stuart Did not the Protestants and Catholicks make up one Body viz. the Royal Party I am sure they that distinguish them at present hated both formerly and would willingly divide them now in hopes to weaken the King and put the whole Kingdom in new confusions He therefore that thus impertinently begins with wicked intentions can never without doubt end either well or wisely SECT I. APOLOGY The Arms which Christians can use against Lawful Powers in their Severity are onely Prayers and Tears Now since nothing can equal the infinity of those we have shed but the Cause viz. To see our dearest Friends forsake us we hope it will not offend you if after we have a little wip'd our eyes we sigh out our Complaints to you I. ANSWER The minister directs his Answer to the Author of the Apology and says thus to the foregoing words That in the Conspiracy of Babington against Q. Elizabeth such a Declaration was made about Prayers and Tears that the expression infinity of tears is in it self improper and the sence more applicable to Q. Maries days the Irish Rebellion or our own faboulous Purgatory But we Iesuites whether ranting or whining cannot speak like other men REPLY I. Is not this great malice to make a parity between them who considered Q. Elizabeth as an Usurper and us that in words and sufferings acknowledge no Prince had ever a more unquestionable Title then ours To this I need not say more having in the latter end of the Preface shewed that time and accidents have quite altered the Scene and doubtless our obedience to the Government is now apparently so great that t is as probable the Heptarchy may be revived or the Welsh rebel which were high folly to imagine as that disorders or tumults can be again occasioned by the Catholiques Concerning the Irish Rebellion I never so much as once mentioned it in the
Calvin Earthly Princes do hereave themselves of Authority when they erect themselves against God yea they are unworthy to be accounted in the number of men therefore we must rather spit in their faces then obey them Passing by what Beza did in France Davila often mentions He writ a Book of the Power of Magistrates which Mr. Sutcliffe confesses armed Subjects against their Prince Sundry Englishmen writ wholly of this Argument That the Councellors and rather then fail the very people were bound to reform Religion whether the Queen would or no though it were by putting her to death I shall trouble you Reader with no more Citations of which our Books are full for I content my self with naming these of the greatest eminency and certainly the opinions of these Doctors may be more justly charged upon Protestants in general then the opinions of private Catholicks upon us because Luther Zwinglius Calvin and Beza were the first Reformers and if the Spirit of God taught them so much truth as they are said to preach why should this be more questionable then the rest Therefore the Pope being Pharaoh and Popery Egypt as Ministers daily affirm in their Pulpits we may well say These are thy Gods O Israel which brought thee out of the land of Egypt These Apostles rested not in the Theory but fell to the Practice also for whereas the Popes since the first rise of the Reformation never gave away evenby word but two Crowns viz. England and France the Reformed have actually deposed the absolute Princes of Scotland Denmark Swedeland and Geneva have ravisht also from their lawful Governours the Low-Countreys Transylvania and many Towns which are now called Free And for Rebellion and Tumults they have been eminent in Poland Boheme Hungary France Germany and in short in all places where this Gospel has been preacht This every Historian can tell you nay blind Mr. Heylin plainly saw it therefore did all he could when these Countries in his Geography were to be handled to purge the Reformed from the Rebellion truly laid to their charge but finding that washing a Blackmore was labour in vain he was forced with his Brother Sleidan to fly for shelter to this abominable and prodigious Argument viz. That Christ foretold that Fathers should be against their sons and brothers against brothers for his sake and that we find not in any Story the true Religion was induc'd or corrupt about to be amended without War and Bloodshed It is true the lawful Protestant Church of England teaches no such Doctrine but this I do not much wonder at for why should men the King being so absolute in Spirituals run the risk to be undone for venting such notions when as their Monarchs have been so strict Professors of their Religion The test of this would be if the Prince and people were different or like to be so in Faith and Worship 〈◊〉 what the English have done herein whâ—â— this has happened I will shew you 〈◊〉 said by and by For my part I look upon the English to be the most well-meaning and most Religious people in the World and it is that which makes them all so violent in what their Conscience tells them is true This made Papists so earnest for their Religion which had governed England so long in glory This made Protestants fierce to root out what they thought Idolatry This made Presbyterians desire to have Prelatick Superstition reformed and this made Independents and their brood cry down every thing standing stiffly as they imagined for the Kingdom of Iesus Christ I say this great sincerity and zeal makes all our Countrymen so violent which good intention wicked people taking advantage of have caused so many disturbances among us nor can Sectaries ever be quiet till they are convinc'd that some Church or other is infallible Thus Reader have I answered to this strange Calumny against us That our Principles are inconsistent with Govenment by shewing that deposing of Kings is no part of the Catholick Faith which Catholique Princes do very well know and also that in Doctrine and Practice the Reformed have been wheresoever they came far more faulty then we SECT VII APOLOGY My Lords and Gentlemen Had this been a new Sect not known before something perchance might have been doubted but to lay this at their doors that have governed the civilized World is the Miracle of Miracles to us ANSWER VII Here he says that they that have read most and have had the most experience can best cure â—s of the wonder and that K. Iames who had reason to know us said in the Parliament That there were some that might be honest of the Party being ignoraÌ„tly seduced but they that truly knew our Doctrines could never be good Subjects Then he asks when it was that we governed the civilized World For he says the Eastern and Southern Churches never were under our Government nor the Western neither but when ignorant and barbarous REPLY VII Now I plainly see the design of this Minister is to the end his flock may believe every thing answered to say something to each Paragragh let it be never so frivolous Who is it Reader that having read History is ignorant of the great power the Bishop of Rome had over the East as the Greek Fathers tell us for wee read in Eusebius that Pope Victor about anno 200. Excomunicated the Eastern Church for not keeping Easter the Roman way and this Grimston also has in his account of Popes Or who knows not of the Appeals from Africk when matters of moment arose even in the most acknowledged Primitive times But I ask your pardon for asserting this because in the Primitive times they say the Popes themselves were Protestants Yet though this were so I wonder the Minister should be so forgetful of the Great Antichrist Boniface the III who is baited by every Shoolboy This arrant Pope lived above 1000. years aago and not only called himself Universal Bishop but was owned so too by Phocas the Universal Emperor as all Protestants declare Might not then a man modestly say that Popery governed the civilized World when it governed the whole World But I d of willingly forgive a man this that has the confidence to say that we did not govern the Western World till it grew ignorant and barbarous It may be he means that those Parts have been so ever since Christs time otherwise till this late Reformation there was never any Government on this side Greece that denied the Popes Jurisdiction and Greece it self owned it in the Councel of Lateran and in Hen. 3. time also as Protestant Sir Richard Baker testifies Ever since Rome made het self Mistress of all Arts and Sciences the West took the name of the only civilized place Therefore had he understood civility he would not have made so simple a cavil and I dare say he is the first ProtestaÌ„t Writer though they have been as
all was done in the dark nor would they ever own otherwise then that they dyed without violence For t was given out that the death of the first of these Princes came by extreame Griefe That the other Starved himselfe and that the last died of a Naturall sicknesse But the execution of the Queen of Scots was bare-fac'd in the sight of the World and which was more under the cloak of Law My Lord of Leicester was sensible of the dishonour that would accrew to the Nation and therefore sent Walsinhham a godly Divine to satisfie his conscience that it was lawful to poyson her but the Minister could no more convince his penitent then the Saints could Harrison about the clandestine Murther of the Grandchild And doubtless the whole intrigue against Q. Mary gave precedent and boldness to our execrable Parricides openly to do their detestable villany in a formal method and manner This procedure against the Queen contrary as 't was imagined to the Law of Nations she being both a Guest and an absolute Princess drew an universal odium upon the Kingdom for the Reproach was entailed on the whole nation by the apparition of a mimicall and Counterfeit justice as Osborne call's it nor did any Englishman either Papist or Protestant ever misse to be upbraided with it abroad till the greatness of the abomination against King Charles made them leave off a little speaking of the first to remember us more piquantly of the last Is it to excuse the two unheard of 〈◊〉 that he tell me of four or five Kings since the Conquest made away by Papists It may be it is that I should again retort that since Hen. 8. Reign there were but b four Protestestant Monarchs and three of them were said to come to violent deaths But what is Ravillac's murther of Hen. 4. to us in England more then to Saxony the poysoning of Edw. 6. by the Lord Robert Dudly for so Sir Richard Baker conceives he hid I know Clement the Frier destroyed Hen 3. so did Judas his Master and yet neither the Disciples nor Christian Religion were ever thought the worse for it For the Murther of the Protestants in IrelaÌ„d I shew'd you in the beginning how we detested it CoÌ„cerning the Blood spilt in FraÌ„ce I shall speak at large in the Paragraph about that Massacre But I wonder the PiemoÌ„thusiness should be unged by Royallist for I remeÌ„ber when CroÌ„wel made a CollectioÌ„ for theÌ„ in pretence but for himself in reality the Cavaliers ever stiled them Rebels and said the Duke of Savoy was necessitated for his quiet to subdue them thus by Arms. Yet for all their hard usage I wish we had as much freedome as they Now for Queen Maries Reign which this man so often calls the Bloody days I will here speak a little eternally to stop his mouth hereafter First Reformed Historians agree that the Queen her self was a marveillous good woman therefore it was not she but her Bishops that were cruel Again every Englishman knows that no man can be put to death amongst us without Law therefore they were not the Bishops but the Laws that were cruel which Laws still continue and have been made use of since the Reformation by Q. Elez. K. â—ames to burne Hereticks Yet for all these Laws there died of Protestants in the whole but 277. as Baker and other Protestant Writers record Besides were these 277. now alive 200. at least in stead of pity would be thrown into prison and there rot for Non-conformists but all things were called Saints in the dawning of the light even so much as Collins and his dog for Fox in his Act 's and Monuments say's that Collins beeing mad and seeing a Priest hold up the Host to the people tooke a dog and held it up as the Priest did the Host for wch he and the dog were burnt Yet though this Collins be own'd by Fox to be mad never the less he places him as a Martyr on the 10. of Octob. as may be seen in his Calendar In the next place let me know whether a man may be executed for this Tenets in Religion or no If it be lawful why might not Papists put to death men who they thought deserved it as well as Protestants If no man ought to suffer for his Conscience why did Edward 6. and Q. Eliz. condemn so many Hereticks in their time all which were executed but some few that recanted and so saved their lives Or why did K. James put to death Legat and Wightman but because he religiously thought it was unfit they should longer live to blaspheme Over and above these that died for a Religion of their own making I saw a Roll at Doway wherein to the year 1632. there suffered out of that one House 105. Priests since which there died many out of the same Colledge Add to these many out of the Portugal Spanish and Roman Seminaries many of other Orders and many Laymen also who have been executed for owning the Pope in Spirituals or for having a Priest say Mass in their Houses according to the obligation of their Consciences If these were then all numbred I am sure there suffered many more Catholicks omitting the innumerable Confiscations by the Protestant Government then ever there did Protestants by the Catholick Nay if together with Catholicks I should reckon all sorts of people that died for their Conscience though enemyes to Popery which may be found in Fox Stow and others in the Reignes of Hen. 8. Ed. 6. and Queen Elizabeth it is evident there has been more Blood spilt on a Religious account under our Princes that disowned the Pope then by the Papists from St. Augustins Conversion to Luthers time Iudge then if Catholicks be so bloody as they are reported and thought SECT XII APOLOGY 'T was never heard of before that an absolute Queen was condemned by Subjects and those stiled her Peers or that a King was publiquely tried and executed by his own people and servants ANSWER XII Here he says That the Q. of Scots was beheaded under Elizabeth by the same colour of right that Wallis suffered under Edw. 1. whom I call he says a brave Prince namely that of Soveraignty which our Princes challenged over Scotland but that King James and King Charles never imputed this to Q. Elizabeths Religion Concerning King Charles's Murther he says that I would take it ill a Turk should charge the Ministers faults and his Parties upon me but I do worse then a Turk in charging these mens faults upon the Protestants for the Murtherers were neither then nor since of the Ministers Communion He sayes King Charles declared he died for the Protestant Religion and Laws of the Land that also in his Letter to the Prince he says none of the Rebels were Professors or Practicers of the Church of England which gives no such Rules REPLY XII Nay now I have
like humors must needs have joyned our hearts If we erre pity our condition and remember what your great Ancestors were and make some difference between us that have twice converted England from Paganism and those other Sects that can challenge nothing but intrusion for their imposed Authority ANSWER XVI He says he aggrees with me in all that is truly Catholick and differs only in what we have innovated he respects our breeding but suspects whatever leans to forreign jurisdiction 'T is a flam that we have twice converted England and that sure we mean it has been twice converted by persons sent from Rome which we will never perswade any one to believe that has tasted Church-History without our Fathers chewing it for him But supposing this true he asks whether we wouldt infer that because they received good from the Primitive Christians of that place they must lay themselves open to receive any ill that my happen to them from their dangerous Successours REPLY XVI Concerning his saying that he agrees with me in all that is truly Catholick I kiss his hands for so said Jacob Behmen and so I dare say will Mr. Woodcock this being the old Song of all Hereticks I have proved before that forreign Jurisdiction in Spirituals may well agree in all Governments and no Kingdoms have been more happy at home or glorious abroad then when the Pope was their Spiritual Pastor But methinks my Gentleman might have acknowledged tha the last Conversion at least was Popish it being performed Ann. 596. in the time of Pope Gregory whom Fox calls the basest of all his Predecessours and it was done also by Austin a Monck which very name is enough to tell a Protestant the Missioner was Popishly perswaded Moreover this Austin survived his Master Gregory and consequently was according to Fox who dreames that he lived in England 16. yeares not only obedient to Boniface the 3. the Great Antichrist but made his Companion Lawrence his Successour who had the like veneration for Popes though they then stiled themselves Universal Bishops as all Protestants affirme nor did ever Canterbury deny the Roman Sea till Cranmer in the time of Hen. 8. If any man yet shall not think Austin Papist enough let him read St. Bedes History or rather some Protestants about it among which let J. Bale an Apostate Frier be one who will tell you That Austin was sent to convert the Saxons to a Popish Faith and that he taught false Doctrine and minded more the getting oblations for Masses then the Preaching of the Gospel Yet Fox though he call St. Austin Pharisaical says nevertheless that those Missioners did Miracles before King Ethelbert For the Conversion under King Lucius all Reformed Historians confess that Pope Eleutherius sent Damianus and Fugatius two Ministers forsooth as Heylin calls them who preacht Christ to the Britains No man can doubt then if these were sent from Rome but that they taught the Faith of Rome Now when Austin whom you see the Protestants already confess Popish came to convert the Saxons he had conference with Dinoth the Abbot and several of the Monks at Bangor who still preserved Christian Religion among the British In all their Dispute we finde no debate but about the Customes of the Church nor did Austin demand of them any more then the alteration in keeping of Easter and some Ceremonies in Baptism but had there been any difference in Faith and doctrine as Speed sayes positwely there was none Historians would not have failed to remember that seeing they take notice of things of lâ—ss moment and besides every body knows how scrupulous the Church was in Doctrine having condemned the Arrians Eutychians Nestorians and the like for some things which to ordinary and humane capacities seemed but meer niceties This then proves plainly that Austin the Popish Monck who also according to Hollingshead infected us with the poyson of Romish Errours preacht no other Doctrine then what the British had received afore but the the British according to Fox and others of our Protestant Authors were the uncorrupt preservers of Gods word having received from their King Lucius who lived about 180. years after Christ Let any man therefore judge who are most Primative whether he that has the face to deny that Papists twice converted England would not also deny our Saviour were it as much for his advantage as we see this to be SECT XVII APOLOGY But it is generally said That Papists cannot live without persecuting all other Religions within their reach We confess where the name of Protestant is unknown the Catholick Magistrates believing it erronious do use all endeavours to keep it out Yet in those Countreys where Liberty is given they have far more Priviledges then we under any Reformed Government whatsoever To be short we will only instance France for all where they have publick Churches where they can make what Proselytes they please and where it is not against Law to be in any charge or Imployment Now Holland which permits every thing gives us 't is true our Lives and Estates but takes away all Trust and Rule and leaves us also in danger of the Scout whensoever he pleases to molest our Meetings ANSWER XVII He says That what is generally said of Popish persecutions is also generally believed and that I answer deceitfully in mentioning those Countreys only where the name of Protestant is unknown and no liberty given them but omit those where it is known and no liberty given as in Flanders now and in England when it was Catholick I instance he says in France because I could find no other place but I should have considered how the Edicts of the Protestants liberty were obtained and how they are observed But if the Edicts were observed he says it is no argument that because a Liberty not against the Law is allowed them it should be granted us against the Law The Papists in Holland he says lent the chief help to fling of the Spanish yoak and therefore deserve more then we who would have brought it on our Country again REPLY XVII I could not imagine the Minister would have discover'd so great a Truth for now Reader you see that he confesses that whatsoever is said of Papists is generally believed How are Papists traduced What Stories are told of Popes How many things of the whole body of Papists and all taken for Gospel as the adversary himself acknowledges Thus people are possest with a horrour of Qu. Mary's days as if all were really true and yet as I have treated before there has been more bloud Judicially spilt about Religion by those that have excluded the Pope then has been by Papists from the Conversion of the Nation to its fall What does the Minister mean by Protestants known and no liberty given Italy and Spain know Protestants nay the Turk himself knows them and is obliged to the disturbances made by Luther and his
have viz. a Preist to assist her at her death she was again recomforted when she knew by the Earl of Kent that she died for her Faith for he told her that her life would be the destruction of their Religion Reader I must now here end and cannot but ask this Question If the Reformed have for defence of their Religion effected the death of their Queen or at least undoubted Heir and if they have set up Jane Gray that had no title because their lawful Prince was Catholick who have been I would fain know in England more faulty in this case they or we Pray what advantage has this Minister got by loading us with crimes of which we are innocent And if as he urges in the beginning we obey'd Q. Elizabeth ten years without stir it then shows that Papists can be obedient to a Prince of another Religion though they doubt their right whenas the former Protestants would do any thing rather then permit a Catholick to govern let the Title be never so just Judge now Reader whether it be not superlative injustice to incense the World against us as if our Religion taught nothing but blood and theirs all gentleness imaginable I must invoke both Angels and Men to consider our wrong who are termed trayterous in our Principles even to this day We in our own persons have shewed all the duty that men can fancy and for our Ancestors you have seen what their Plea is if it be bad they have justly suffred if other wise let them then feel your anger who would deceive you thus with lies and remember that 't is not possible a Religion which governed England with glory so many years can teach a Doctrine destructive to Princes or infuse Maxims that will breed commotions among the people SECT XXIII APOLOGY 'T was for the Royal House of Scotland that they suffered in those days and 't is for the same illustrious Family we are ready to hazard all on any occasion ANSWER XXII Sir We have found you notoriously false in that which you affirm Pray God you prove true in that which you promise SECT XXIV APOLOGY Nor can the consequence of the former procedure be but ill if a Henry the Eighth whom Sir Walter Rawleigh and my Lord Cherbury two famous Protestants have so homely characterized should after twenty years co-habitation turn away his wife and this out of scruple of Conscience as he said when as History declares that he never spared woman in his lust nor man in his fury ANSWER XXIV This Character he says agrees better with some Heads of the Church then with King Henry the Eighth of whom better Historians naming Thuanus say better things but if he were such a Monster 't was for want of a better Religion for he was of ours except in the point of Supremacy and therefore I have no reason to flurt at him except having undertaken to colour Treasons I think 't is something towards it to bespatter Kings I use he says the same Art in the next Paragraph to excuse the Powder-Treason calling it a misdemeanour the fifth of November a Conjuration all soft words but deal hardly with the great Minister of State whom I make the Author of it as if the State had conspired against the Traytors not the Traytors against the State Then he tells the old Story of the Gunpowder-Plot and how discovered by my Lord Mounteâ—gles Letter and also how the Jesuites Baldwin Hammond Tesmond and Gerrard were named by the Conspirators as privy with them The Narration is in any Book that treats of King James and well known by every body therefore for brevities sake I have omitted it here REP. to ANSW XXIV Reader If the Character do agree better with many heads of our Church then I say in Gods name let it be given them But I much admire how Thuanus comes to be esteemed a better historian in English affairs then Sir Walter Raleigh or my Lord Cherbury whom we poor English-men think very excellent But why do I trouble you wiâ—â— the extravagancies of this strange man wâ—â— when he finds as he fancies a present expedient cares not though he be forc'd to deny it again in the next page What I have said of Henry the Eighth these two famous men have said it and a thousand times worse though they were Protestants and the first of them the great admirer of his Mrs. the daughter of this very Prince Nay omitting the unexpressable foul Language of the Reformed at home and abroad especially of Luther himself the Bishop of Hereford a Member of the Church of England calls him unsatiable glutted with one and out of variety seeking to enjoy another I shall speak no more to this nor any thing separately to the next four Paragraphs for they all concern the Powder-Treason You shall see what he says to each of them and then my Answer shall follow in one intire discourse SECT XXV APOLOGY Now for the fifth of November with hands lifted up to Heaven we abominate and detest ANSWER XXV Here he asks Whether it be the Festival 〈◊〉 the Treason we abominate and detest If the 〈◊〉 he says he will believe us without lifting 〈◊〉 our hands If the Treason he asks why we do not call it so which while we cannot afford to do lifting up our hands will never perswad 〈◊〉 we abominate and detest it SECT XXVI APOLOGY And from the bottom of our hearts say that may they fall into irrecoverable perdition who propagate that faith by the blood of Kings which is to be planted in truth and meekness only ANSWER XXVI He says I should be cautious of throwing such Curses for fear of hitting our Father the Pope as the Philosopher told the son of a common-woman that threw stones among a multitude SECT XXVII APOLOGY But let it not displease you Men Brethren and Fathers if we ask whether Ulisses be no better known or who has forgot the Plots of Cromwel framed in his Closet not only to destroy many faithful Cavaliers but also to â—ut a lustre upon his Intelligence as if nothing could be done without his knowledge Even so did the then great Minister who drew some few ambitious men into this conjuration and then discovered it by a Miracle ANSWER XXVII Here he calls me Apostle and Poet full of Gravity and Fiction Then he says I would make the World believe they were drawn into this Plot by Cecil yet am so wise as not to offer to prove it but would steal it in by the example of Cromwel Again he says admitting this for true they were Traytors nevertheless in doing what they did had there been no Cecil in the World and therefore the excuse only implies they had not wit to invent it though they wanted not malice to execute it for according to my illustration as the Cavaliers whom Cromwel drew in had their Loyalty abused and were nevertheless faithful still so the Powder-Traytors whom Cecil
Rebellion though many of the Reformed Divines are as I shal shew you of another sentiment Yet even those that do agree with me will nevertheless confess that by reason of carnal passions Grace must be predominant to resist so strong a torrent Was it not strange in the beginning to behold Abbies destroyed Bishopricks gelded Chanteries Hospitals and Colledges turned to profane uses Nay after a change of Liturgies and Rites to see people renounce their pious Vows and out of Godliness grow more licentious and loose These and the like unexpected alterations it being a pitiful thing as Stow says to hear the lamentations in the Country for Religious houses spurred men forward to resist for people saw the Conflagration and none knew in what it would determine or end But now Noble Country-men the Scene is quite altered for now we know the full scope of your designe now we are inured to the gentle Yoak of Protestant Kings and now we are so incorporated by our long acquaintance and joynt sufferings that all humane proneness to contend which our Enemies called Principles of Faith is wholly eradicated and taken away Having thus shew'd you that our Principles are not dangerous to Kings that our actions have been zealous for Kings and moreover that it is impossible we should again fall into those misdemeanours into which natural frailtie and misusage drove the foregoing age I will now with your permission examine the Answer of our Minister to each particular Paragraph and by it shall still farther let you see as well his pernicious ill nature as his detestable Positions and Designes But my Lords and Gentlemen I shall beseech you first throughly to peruse the Apologie it self it being the ground of the whole Dispute and because it hath been mangled by him into many imperfect Sections I have thought fit to print it here entire to the end you might run it over with the more ease and that by the whole connexion and dependance which mutilation spoils you may the better consider the real integritie I had in putting out that true and submissive Vindication TO ALL THE ROYALLISTS that suffered for HIS MAJESTY AND To all the rest of the Good People of ENGLAND The Humble APOLOGIE of the ENGLISH CATHOLICKS My Lords and Gentlemen THe Arms which Christians can use against Lawful Powers in their Severity are only Prayers Tears Now since nothing can equal the infinity of those we have shed but the Cause viz. to see our dearest Friends forsake us we hope it will not offend you if after we have a little wip'd our eyes we sigh out our Complaints to you We had spoken much sooner had we not been silent through consternation to see you so enflam'd whom with reverence we honour and also to shew our submissive patience which used no slights or tricks to divert the debates of Parliament For no body can imagine where so many of the great Nobility and Gentry are concern'd but something might have been done whenas in all ages we see things of Publick advantage by the managers dexterity nipt in the bud even in the very Houses themselves Far be it from Catholicks to perplex Parliaments who have been the Founders of their Priviledges and all Ancient Lawes Nay Mâgna Charta it self had its rise from us which we do the less boast of since it was not at first obtained in so submiss and humble manner We sung our Nunc dimittis when we saw our Master in his Throne and you in your deserved Authority and Rule nor could any thing have ever grieved us more then to have our Loyalty called into Question by you even at the instigation of our greatest Adversaries If we must suffer let it be by you alone for that 's a double death to men of Honour to have their Enemies not onely Accusers but their insulting Judges also These are they that by beginning with us murthered their Prince and wounded you And shall the same Method continue by your approbation We are sure you mean well though their designe be wicked But let it never be recorded in Story that you forgot your often Vows to us in joyning with them that have been the cause of so great calamity to the Nation Of all Calumnies against Catholicks we have admired at none so much as that their Principles are said to be inconsistent with Government and they themselves thought ever prone to Rebellion My Lords and Gentlemen Had this been a new Sect not known before something perchance might have been doubted but to lay this at their doors that have governed the Civilized World is the Miracle of Miracles to us Did Richard the First or Edward Longshanks suspect his Catholicks that served in Palestine and made our Countries Fame big in the Chronicle of all Ages Or did they mistrust in their dangerous absence their Subjects at home because they were of this Profession Could Edward the Third imagine those to be Trayterous in their Doctrine that had that care and duty for their Prince as to make them by Statute guilty of death in the highest degree that had the least thought of ill against the King Be pleased that Henry the Fifth be remembred also who did those Wonders of which the whole World does still resound and certainly all History will agree in this that 't was Old Castle he feared and not those that believed the Bishop of Rome to be Head of the Church We will no longer trouble you with putting you in minde of any more of our mighty Kings who have been feared abroad and as safe at home as any since the Reformation of Religion We shall onely adde this that if Popery be the enslaving of Princes France still believes it self as absolute as Denmark or Sweden nor will ever the House of Austria abjure the Pope to secure themselves of the fidelity of their Subiects We shall always acknowledge to the whole World that there have been as many brave English in this last Century as in any other place whatsoever Yet since the exclusion of the Catholick Faith there has been that committed by those who would be fain called Protestants that the wickedest Papist never dreamt of 'T was never heard of before that an absolute Queen was condemned by Subjects and those stiled her Peers or that a King was publickly tried and executed by his own people and servants My Lords and Gentlemen We know who were the Authors of this last Abomination and how generously you strove against the raging Torrent nor have we any other ends to remember you of it but to shew that all Religions may have a corrupted spawn and that God hath been pleased to permit such a Rebellion which our progenitors never saw to convince you perchance whom for ever may he prosper that Popery is not the only Source of Treason Little did we think when your Prayers and ours were offered up to beg a Blessing on the Kings Affairs ever to see that
day in which Carlos Gifford Whitgrave and the Pendrels should be punished by your desires for that Religion which obliged them to save their forlorn Prince and a stigmatized man for his offences against King and Church a chief promoter of it Nay less did we imagine that by your Votes Hudlestone might be hanged who again secured our Soveraign and others free in their fat possessions that sat as Judges and sealed the Execution of that great Prince of happy Memory We confess we are unfortunate you just Judges whom with our lives we will ever maintain to be so nor are we ignorant the necessity of affairs made the King and you do things which formerly you could not so much as fancy yet give us leave to say we are still Loyal nay to desire you to believe so and to remember how synonymous under the late Rebellion was the word Papist and Cavalier for there was no Papist that was not deemed a Caualier nor no Caualier that was not call'd a Papist or at least thought to be Popishly affected We know though we differ something in Religion the truth of which let the last day judge yet none can agree with your inclinations or are fitter for your converse then we for as we have as much birth among us as England can boast of so our breeding leans your way both in Court and Camp And therefore had not our late Sufferings united us in that firm tie yet our like humors must needs have joyned our hearts If we erre pity our condition and remember what your great Ancestors were and make some difference between us that have twice converted England from Paganism and those other Sects that can challenge nothing but intrusion for their imposed Authority But 't is generally said That Papists cannot live without persecuting all other Religions within their reach We confess where the name of Protestant is unknown the Catholick Magistrates believing it erronious do use all endeavours to keep it out Yet in those Countreys where Liberty is given they have far more Priviledges then we under any Reformed Government whatsoever To be short we will only instance France for all where they have publick Churches where they can make what Proselytes they please and where 't is not against Law to be in any Charge or Imployment Now Holland which permits every thing gives us 't is true our Lives and Estates but takes away alle Trust and Rule and leaves us also in danger of the Scout whensoever he pleases to molest our Meetings Because we have named France the Massacre will perchance be urged against us But the World must know that was a Cabinet-Plot condemned as wicked by Catholick Writers there and of other Countries also Besides it cannot be thought they were murthered for being Protestants since 't was their powerful Rebellion let their Faith have been what it would that drew them into that ill-machinated destruction May it not as well be said in the next Catholick Kings Reign that the Duke of Guise ande Cardinal Heads of the League were killed for their Religion also Now no body is ignorant that 't was their factious Authority which made that jealous Prince design their deaths though by unwarrantable means If it were for Doctrine that the Hugonots suffered in France this haughty Monaroh would soon destroy them now having neither Force nor Towns to resist his Might and Puissance They yet live free enough being even Members of Parliament and may convert the Kings Brother too if he thinks fit to be so Thus you may see how well Protestants live in a Popish Country under a Popish King Nor was Charlemaign more Catholick then this for though he contends sometimes with the Pope 't is not of Faith but about Gallicane Priviledges which perchance he may very lawfully do Judge then Worthy Patriots who are the best used and consider our hardship here in England where 't is not only a Fine for hearing Mass but death to the Master for having a Priest in his house and so far we are from preferment that by Law we cannot come within ten miles of London all which we know your great Mercy will never permit you to exact It has been often urged that our misdemeanours in Queen Elizabeths and King James's time were the cause of our punishment We earnestly wish that the Party had had more patience under that Princess But pray consider though we excuse not their faults whether it was not a Question harder then that of York and Lancaster the cause of a War of such length and death of so many Princes who had most right Queen Elizabeth or Mary Stuart For since the whole Kingdom had crowned and sworn Allegeance to Queen Mary they owned her as the legitimate daughter to Henry the Eighth and therefore 't was thought necessarily to follow by many that if Mary was the true Child Elizabeth was the Natural which must needs give way to the thrice noble Queen of Scots 'T was for the Royal House of Scotland that they suffered in those days and 't is for the same illustrious Family we are ready to hazard all on any occasion Nor can the consequence of the former procedure be but ill if a Henry the Eighth whom Sir W. Rawleigh and my Lord Cherbury two famous Protestants have so homely characterized should after twenty years co-habitation turn away his wife and this out of scruple of Conscience as he said when as History declares that he never spared woman in his lust nor man his fury Now for the fifth of Novēber with hāds lifted up to Heaven we abominate and detest and from the bottō of our hearts say may they fall into irrecoverable perdition who propagate that faith by the blood of Kings which is to be planted in truth and meekness only But let it not displease Men Brethren and Fathers if we ask whether Ulysses be no better known or who has forgot the Plots of Cromwel framed in his Closet not only to destroy many faithful Cavaliers but also to put a lustre upon his Intelligence as if nothing could be done without his knowledge Even so did the then great Minister who drew some few ambitious men into this conjuration and then discovered it by a Miracle This will easily appear viz. how little the Catholique Party understood the design seeing there were not a score of guilty found though all imaginable industry was used by the Commons Lords and Privy Councel too But suppose my Lords and Gentlemen which never can be granted that all the Papists of that age were consenting Will you be so severe then to still punish the Children for their Fathers faults Nay such Children that so unanimously joyned with you in that glorious Quarrel wherein you and we underwent such sufferings that needs we must have all sunk had not our mutual love assisted What have we done that we should now deserve your Anger Has the Indiscretion of some few incenst you 'T is true that is
must beseech our Gracious Soveraign for us others must again undeceive the Good though deluded Multitude Therefore all are to remember who are the prime raisers of the Storm and how through our sides they would wound both the KING and You for though their hatred to our selves is great yet the enmity out of all measure encreases because we have been yours and so shall continue even in the fiery day of trial Protect us we entreat you then upon all your former Promises or if that be not sufficient for the sakes of those that lost their Estates with you many of which are now fallen a sleep But if this be still too weak we must conjure you by the sight of this Bloody Catalogue which contains the Names of your murthered Friends and Relations who in the heat of Battail perchance saved many of your Lives even with the joyful loss of their own The Catalogue of Names is at the end of the Book A material Advertisement to the Reader both concerning the Answerer of the Apology and the Method of this Reply READER ABout the middle of Novem. 1666. when the known Enemies of the Kingdom had enflamed the minds of several honest and well-meaning people I put out this sincere Apology The Reasons therein having nothing but truth and reallity in them satisfied many for every body of themselves saw there was no ground and most confest they were disordered because they saw others so 'T was after Christmas before I left London and truly I suppos'd that if any body could be so malitiously impertinent as by an Answer to cavil at so innocent a thing he would have done it in two moneths it being but a sheet of Paper against which he was to write and then being neer at hand I should have been as quick in my Reply Though the worthy Answerer took much more time for his solid Piece yet in the interval mine was egregiously confuted Nor was ever Gonvil's plain Testament so tore and repiec'd as this Pamphlet by the wise and numerous Assailants One said that the whole thing was harmless and reasonable but that Magna Charta seemed to be struck at His fellow answered that Magna Charta was Magna Farta and of it self Popish and that all was well had not Queen Elizabeth been abused To this a third answered that Q. Elizabeth was now no more to them then William Rufus and all that was said was out of Protestant History but the only thing he blamed was that the fifth of Nov. which was still a Festival was defamed and consequently they themselves jeer'd at in their Annual observation At him another presently laugh'd and askt whether any people ever reverenc'd a Solemnity against themselves for his own part he cared not whether the Papists were guilty or not let them look to that therefore he was sufficiently satisfied with the Apology had the Catalogue been omitted of those that died in the War for by it it seemed as if the whole Royal Army were Papists because so many Popish Officers and men of great Condition were killed in that Service To this a Neighbour said that he knew many more of the Party then were mentioned that thus fell for their Allegiance and that it was hard that so cheap recompence should be denied men for their lives but the sole thing which he stumbled at was the timing publication of it Against whom the whole Company concluded that if ever the time was fit 't was then when the flame appeared and that 't would have been ridiculous to Apologize when there was no stir or clamour Thus have I been vindicated by my Reprehenders and thus have I both read and seen in matters of Religion where the several Antagonists have solved the Popish difficulties themselves After Christmas Reader as I said before I not only went out of Town but have ever since been many score of miles distant from it which is the cause I saw not this Answer so soon as otherwise I should have done at last it was sent me by a Protestant Gentleman who had seen the Apology before it was printed When I had read it I began to admire not only at the malice of the thing but also at the weakness of the man that thus needlesly took up the Cudgels Who the Author is to this day I know not nor can any man desire his Acquaintance unless it be to say they have seen the Eighth Wise man I do not say that he may not be a man of Wit but nevertheless I am sure he is neither of Judgment nor Principles For had he been a Royallist he would have had more Gratitude and good Nature then to have forgotten faithful friends in a storm and added as he hoped fuel to the flame when we were underhand bespattred by Enemies to us both Nor was there any drift in the Apology but to settle a Distemper raised without either cause or reason A Presbyterian I can never think him because they being men of depth and prudence know that the effects of their crying against Papists in 1640. are too fresh in memory nor can it be an advantage for them to harass mens Consciences while their own are within reach of Law I can also as little fancy that an Independant or any real member of that many-headed and uncompacted Body could soberly by writing wish a Persecution for Religion being them selves obnoxious upon all accounts and if severity should universally fall they cannot imagine but that men of Birth men of Breeding men of Loyalty must needs at all times find more friends then they Who he is God knows a man of Principles as I said I am sure he is not nor do I doubt but his officiousness will at last find its reward and since he has called me Turk and worse as you shall see by and by I suppose he will not take it amiss if I speak my thoughts viz. that though he carps in a Ministers Dialect yet doubtless he is a Jew of the Dukes Place Reader When I received this Answer both by my Letters and Friends neer me I was perswaded not to reply because it had no force in it self nor had any applause at London I could not upon this information but assent but now lately I have been awak'd by a new occasion I had some days ago sent me a Pamphlet called A Discourse of the Religion of England a simpler thing was never yet writ I am sure and take this for a proof for he says among many hundred of his silly things that Holland Scotland and Geneva brought in the Reformed Religion without Rebellion He has been well whipt by a Protestant but deserves much more For Scroop was excepted out of the Act of Oblivion and hanged for excusing to Sir Richard Brown after mercy instead of being contrite for his crime yet this man that owns himself a Presbyterian which I believe as much as that my Minister was a Cavalier says The Non-conformists were only
quite geven over my Minister for though he had no regard of himself me thinks he might have had more respect for our King then to parallel his Grand-mother with Wallis You must know Reader that Edward the First by his valour conquered Scotland and made all the Nobles swear Fealty to him About Ann. 1300. when all things were thus at quiet up starts Wallis a poore private Gentlemen who though he had distressed the English a while yet never so much as once pretended to the Crown either by Sword or Birth Afterwards he was taken by our King and executed for his Insurrections Is this man then a fit parallel with Mary Stuart owned not only as Queen of Scots abroad but by Queen Elizabeth her self also who often sent and received Embassadors from her with the same state as was used to the King of France or any other Potentate What King Iames and King Charles thought of the action I know not but I wish it had never been done Concerning the other part of his Answer First I did never charge the Kings Murther on any body but those that were the Authors of it he knows best whether he was one of them or no this I am sure of he can falsifie and to use Harrisons words blacken as well as the best of them as you may see all a long and especially in the next Section Secondly I do verily believe that King Charles died a sincere Protestant And lastly I am so far from laying any crime upon the Cavalier Protestants that I think them as brave and as worthy Gentlemen as any Nation bears But this I must say that the English Church though of an honest intention is built upon such Principles that as long as it lasts it will hatch a dissenting brood and these graceless Children upon every advantage will be ready to Rebel This is then the benefit entailed by Hen. 8. Reformation which has as Baker confesses so shaken the Church that it has stood indistraction ever since SECT XIII APOLOGY My Lords and Gentlemen We know who were the Authors of this last abomination and how generously you strove against the raging torrent nor have we any other ends to remember you of it but to show that all Religions may have a corrupted spawn and that God hath been pleased to permit such a Rebellion which our Progenitors never saw to convince you perchance whom for ever may he prosper that Popery is not the only source of Treason ANSWER XIII Here he says since we do know who were the Authors of the Abomination he desires us to be plain for he thinks I have spoke more truth then every man is aware Cardinal Richelieu he says began the Rebellion in Scotland then it broke out in Ireland blest with his Holiness Letters and Nuntio Lastly England we unsettled by giving occasion of jealousies which the Phanaticks made use of for their purposes Besides all this he says the Murther of the King also was agreed on in the Councels of our Clergy and therefore in vain could the Royallists resist the raging Torrent REPLY XIII Lord what blasphemies are here and what a heap of unsorted falsities are put together without any probability or proof Because Richelieu a great Minister of State who intrigued in every Nation is supposed to have dealt with the Presbyterians of Scotland the Papists of England were the cause of the Rebellion This is rare Logick especially every body knowing that fire and water agreed better then those Saints and we I wonder the Papists were not guilty of the dangerous commotion anno 1666 in that Kingdom But this is so ridiculous that I should be more abominable then he if I made more words of it Nor does that great Anti-Papist H. L. in his Reigne of Ch. 1. scruple to write that the Liturgy or Common Prayer was the Originall of the Scotch troubles In the next place if the flame break out in Ireland which Heath a Protestant historian sayes can be noe where more imputable then to the Parliament's unwarantable proceedure against my Lord Strafford we in England are again the cause of it so that if forraign Catholicks or forraign Protestants Rebel still we must be the Authors that never had any correspondence with either of these Nations nor have to this day as all the World sees Well then may this man falsely charge the Pope who is remote when he dares say thus of us who can so easily contradict his calumnies Lastly for England he urges we were the occasion of jealousies and they made the War O ridiculous impudence If the majority of both Houses conspire against the King suggest in open Debates fears of their own hatching and at the same time with all violence persecute Papists yet we are to be blamed and causers of the Commotions Certainly this is like him that cursed the Lord Chancellour because his horse stumbled I am sure many grave men of your Coat Mr. Parson ingenuously confest that it was the Translation of the Bible or the too frequent reading of it by the ignorant which is a consequent of the Translation that caused our disorders Consider now Reader this strange man for if his malice had not exceeded all bounds he would have told you That the Non-conformists took root assoon as the Reformation That Queen Elizabeths prudence kept them a little down That in King James his Reign they grew much stronger and that great Statesmen have often blamed that wise Prince because to keep things quiet in his Reign he occasioned the Tide to rush in with such irresistable force in our late unhappy times Thus was this storm by knowing Pilots foreseen long ago But would not a man now think this Minister had abused us sufficiently No he must yet go farther even The Kings death was agreed to in the Councels of our Clergy Doubtelss he cannot mean our Priests by the word for what did their agreeing signifie more then if the Mayor of Quinborough and his Brethren agreed that the Janizaries should strangle the Grand Seignior Had our Priests any power in England Were they not forced to skulk always in holes and hanged as often as taken I am sure Iesuites Seculars and Friers were executed no Order escaping al being fish that came to net But now I remember my self Mr. Parson pretends to be skilled in Rhetorick and perchance he uses a Trope of his own making that is That because two Negatives make an affirmative or a thing contrary to themselves therefore his four falsities in this one Section shall dubb an irrefragable truth opposite to each single assertion The Ministers meaning then it seems is this That in stead of our being false to the State We have been most intirely faithful to our King and Country Good Reader I must ask you pardon for saying any thing against these vain and groundless cavils seeing the whole World knows that never were men more earnestly Loyal then we Beware therefore of
this man for it was he or some of the like Principles that out of malice against the late King wickedly divulged That his Majesty had underhand caused the Irish Rebellion that he had a mind to bring in Popery and to enslave the Nation had sent for an Outlandish Guard Thus cried the English Rebels against their glorious Prince and thus now invents this Minister Stories to mischief if he can his innocent fellow-Subjects and Country-men And who can be guiltless if assertions without any shadow of proof shall be received against him SECT XIV APOLOGY Little did we think when your Prayers and ours were offered up to beg a blessing on the Kings Affairs ever to see that day in which Carlos Gifford Whitgrave and the Pendrels should be punished by your desires for that Religion which obliged them to save their forlorn Prince and a stigmatized man for his offences against King and Church chief promoter of it Nay less did we imagine that by your Votes Hudlestone might be hanged who again secured our Soveraign and others free in their fat possessions that sat as Juddes and sealed the Execution of that Great Prince of happy Memory ANSWER XIV He says That many of my Church were not of my Party and that if some of them did the King eminent service in the Critical day of danger so did the Protestants too therefore it is not to be ascribed to our Religion Nor is it reasonable to requite particular men by having those Laws abandoned which secure us against as great a danger 'T is barbarity for any Christian but those of our Sect to question his life that exposed it for his Prince or to do this in any age except Queen Maries for then Sir Nich. Throgmorton was so dealt with But the Minister detests such times and such examples and he knows the King will reward deserving persons without trespassing on his Laws Lastly he desires me to be favourable to the stigmatized man whom I do not hate he knows for his offences because the King whom he formerly displeased bears with him for he contributed much against the Phanaticks to his Majesties restauration and would not willingly live to see the Pope turn him out again REPLY XIV What is the meaning of this distinction That many of my Church were not of my Party Have we not been all of the same Party or can there he named a Papist that was not for the King even in te worst of times But Good Mr. Parson have you all this while cut our throats and do you now come with your insignificant flatteries that there were some eminent among us for Loyalty I fear not the worst you can say and for the best I scorn it Did I ever say otherwise then that the Protestants were to be honoured for their wonderful service to the King Was not the Apology directed to them and have I not always declared that his Majesty ows as much to them as ever Prince can owe to Subjects Certainly 't is no lessning of their worth because we did our endeavours and have been fellow-sufferers with them in that Glorious Quarrel I never prest in the Apology to have any particular body exempted We only say there Little did we once think that the necessity of affairs would occasion the Royal Party to advise the punishment of us all and in the crowd those worthy Preservers of the King at Worcester Yet Sir with your permission it were not so unreasonable neither as you would have it for the service of some few to suspend the Laws against a Party You have read I know the Scripture and therefore may remember Mordecay's case who by saving the Kings life not only preserved himself and his Nation from Ruine but obtained also honour and freedom for them all But what do you drive at by Throgmortons usage Will you never leave perverting History or at best betraying your own ignorance First you must know Reader that Throgmorton by none of our Historians is mētioned to have done any service for Queen Mary Yet Hollins head has his trial at large which John Lilburn afterwards copied out to the life where no evasion is omitted and certainly it had been then a fit time to urge merits had he had any But suppose he was as eminent and faithful as Bedin field Jerningham c. Must that excuse a man from being fairly tried for Treason This Sir Nicholas Throgmorton you must know with others was accused as a Conspirator with Wyat for which he had a Tryal and was acquitted by his Jury Why distempered Sir 't is so far from our business that we do earnestly desire in the Apology upon the least offence against the State the Transgressour may die without mercy and this I 'le be bound Col. Carlos and the rest of those brave men shall willingly subscribe But will you worthy Country-man that know his Majesties thoughts so well engage that none of the factious shall murmure at him for rewarding those that have done well Now for the stigmatized I find Mr. Parson you pretend to be very well acquainted with their actions If they have done any thing which God knows is little and not to the hundreth part of their transgression let them thank God for the grace he has given them to do the King at length service but I am sure if they really meant well they would never promote the harassing of a faithful Party till they found them machinating against their Prince I have no particular spleen to any man yet cannot look on those men as either of wit or honesty who needlesly disoblige and who strive with violence to have Christians persecuted for Religion when as they themselves are the first that rail against all mankind if their own Consciences be toucht though it be by the establisht Laws of the Nation SECT XV. APOLOGY We confess we are unfortunate and you just Judges whom with our lives we will ever maintain to be so nor are we ignorant the necessity of affairs made the King and you do things which formerly you could not so much as fancy yet give us leave to say we are still Loyal nay to desire you to believe so and to remember how synonymous under the late Rebellion was the word Papist and Cavalier for there was no Papist that was not deemed a Cavalier nor no Cavalier that was not counted a Papist or at least thought to Popishly affected ANSWER XV. He will pass over our fawning on the Parliament and commending our selves and believes us as we did the Sectaries that called the Cavaliers Papists He wonders why these Royallists should be termed Popishly affected but if the Papists were judged Cavaliers they afterwards were ashamed of it In Ireland whole Armies were up against the King In England some came in voluntarily to serve him but more were hunted into Garrisons it being well known we should bring his Majesty more hatred then service The greatest part of us that
That some days after there was a solemn Procession to St. Louis and an Inscription set over the Church-door by the Cardinal of Lorrain to congratulate his Holiness and the Colledge in the Kings name for the stupendious effects and incredible events of their Counsels given him and of their assistance sent and of their twelve years wishes and prayers Soon after he says the Pope sent Cardinal Ursini to congratulate the King to commend and bless them that had to do in the Massacre and to perswade the reception of the Councel of Trent by this Argument That the memory of the late glorious action to be magnified in all ages as conducing to the Glory of God and Dignity of the Holy Roman Church might be sealed by the approbation of the Holy Synod for so it would be manifest that the King consented to the destruction of so many not of hatred or revenge but ardent desire to propagate the Glory of God which could not be expected while the Protestants stood through all the Provinces of France The Answerer then concludes this Paragrah with commending the Head of the Church for his judgment in cutting throats not mincing the matter like me whom he is pleased to call an English limb of him who durst not say what I desired for fear of provoking the Protestants nor what the thing deserved for contradicting the Pope REPLY XVIII Can Thuanus or any man else look upon that action with more horrour then I Certainly no yet Reader I must tell you Thuanus is esteemed as malitiously partial a Writer as ever undertook the writing of a History Nay Heylin that other Hanibal that sworn enemy of Rome says That Thuanus savours more of the party then of the Historian Now for his professing to be a Catholick it adds nothing to his Authority because in every Religion there are those that write out of spleen and Faction To a stranger abroad Milton would go for a Protestant because he calls himself so yet in his Books the true matter of Fact is so perverted by his malice that it becomes at last as false as the rest of those damnable lies with which his Papers are stufft But though Thuanus be thus reputed yet this Minister will pervert the Divel himself to do us a mischief He has told us that the Pope ordered a Jubilee through Christendom to give God thanks for destroying in France the Enemies of the Church by which he would have the Reader believe that the Massacre was the cause of this Jubilee when as Thuanus tells us That the Jubilee was to thank God for the Victory at Lepanto against the Turk for the success of Spain against the Rebels in Belgium and to beseech God for the election of a Catholick King in Poland as well as for the business in France But truly I need not complain for such Preachers of Gods word may say any thing so it discredit the Papists let it be never so improbable in it self For my part I can believe not that the Pope and Consistory who are by Protestants reputed dexterous and subtle would make publike Procession and Triumph for Murther in cold blood which could bring them no farther good for the advantages were already obtained but might occasion much scandal which by reason it was the cause of Luthers revolt was the more carefully to be avoided for the future It may be they were not sorry in their hearts For what men are so at the death of their Enemies Yet we see often that those which have a titillation the thing being done would nevertheless loose rather their own lives then give the least consent to the fact Davila tells us in one place of his Fifth Book That the King and Queen-Mother contrived the destruction of the Rebels and communicated their design only to the Duke of Anjou the Guises and the Count of Rhetz and this resolution to Massacre we see there was a pretty while before Pius V. died In another place of this Book I find this Pope died some three months before the execution In another place of this Book I find that this Pope would never consent to the marriage of Margaret to the King of Navar by reason of his Religion and yet in the time of this Marriage Ch. 9. had determined this Butchery Therefore putting all this together it was plain the Pope had no hand in the wicked contrivance Gregory 13. who succeeded and before whose Election this Massacre was designed was at last brought to dispence with the Match it being made appear to him how dangerous it might be in those Schismatical times if the King should in anger solemnize the Marriage without leave for so this King had threatned the aforesaid Pius V. and daily gave more symptoms of his resolution in the Wedding and anger for being contradicted in it at Rome Reader We have no other way to discover the errors of Historians but by conjectures after we have compared times and circumstances The reasons that I have therefore last mentioned assure me that the Pope had no hand in the design yet suppose he had been of the Plot with the King as 't is plain he was not I am sure that can be no excuse to the Hugonots for their former Rebellion and unspeakable abominations as you shall presently see But let the Pope have what design he would 't is still evident according to the Apology that the King and Queen-Mother who could only perform this Murther were moved to this Massacre for Interest of State and not Religion For the King was not such a Bigot or Pious man upon a Spiritual account to draw such a hazard or at least a scandal on his own person and for the Queen-Mother that great intriguer she valued Religion little for sometimes she favoured Protestants sometimes again persecuted them Nay when it was for her advantage she gave great and suspitious signs that she would be of the Reformed Religion also as may be seen in Davila in the second Book My Minister will not perchance be yet satisfied that I call it a Cabinet-Plot but says they died for their Religion and that the King had not better Subjects then those that were massacred Brave Coligni being the first that fell Now Reader that you may see what kind of Subject our Minister is and such a one I always doubted him I will briefly shew you how these Hugonots behaved themselves among whom Coligni was a Principal and who is honoured with the title of Brave by this most Loyal Parson In the time of Francis the First Calvin appeared and dedicated his Institutions to him The preaching of this man pleased the changeable humor of many French but the Sect was kept under by the King and especially by his Son Hen. 2. who like wise Governours were unwilling to let an unheard-of Religion get root in their Country well knowing that Rebellion would follow as afterwards it happened to the purpose Francis the 2. succeeded Hen.
because the English have a reluctancy at first to the thoughts of a stranger Nay some Members of Parliament after his admission said openly in the House Thâ—t no people endued with Natural desire of Preservation would admit a Prince of a beggerly Nation to Reign over them how just soever his claim were for fear of loosing their propriety as dear as life it self and as vigorously to be defended By this therefore Reader may be seen the rancour of the Reformed against the Kings coming in since they durst say such things even after his reception and had not the last Earl of Pembrook wisely pocketted up Ramsey's switching at Newmarket when the people cried Let us break-fast with the Scots here and dine with the rest at London 't was feared that day would have been as fatal to the King as the fifth of November might have proved Papists therefore it seems were not his only Enemies Concerning Huntly's Rebellion I am sure the man is doubly mad in mentioning it for first according to Cambden whom he cites The rising was to help the Spaniards against Queen Elizabeth who had put to death their Queen nor was there ever a formed insurrectioÌ„ so gently punisht by a King which argues they had no malice against him Nay his Majesty is pleased to say in his Basilicon Doron That the Puritans had put out many Libellous Invectives against all Christian Princes and that no body answered them but the Papists by which he said the scandal was doubled for they were the Reformed who calumniated and the Catholiques were the only Vindicators Secondly If the Rebellion suppose it as bad as may be of these Lords of another Country of another age must touch us the present Catholicks of England what a blow would this be to the Reformed Religion should I repeat the Scots unparallel'd actions against their Queen The protecting of Bothwel who would have destroy'd King James by the English And lastly omitting the continual slavery he was in the downright Conspiracie of the Gowries against his life Having thus gone through the Paragraph I must come to the nicest Question of all and nice I may call it because it is conjectural only The proposal by the Minister is this Whether if the Queen of Scots had been a Protestant we should have stickled for her and if Queen Elizabeth had not been thought illegitimate whether nevertheless we had not rebelled against her To the first I say viz. We had sided with the Q. of Scots had she been Protestant To the second No That the Papists would not have opposed Queen Elizabeth had they thought her legitimate and of the Ministers own assertions I will make this plainly appear For if according to him the Papists would have set up two Protestants the Lords Darby and Essex who in reality had no right then I say 't is certain they would willingly have embraced the Title of the Stuarts that carried so fair a shew To the second I answer That they would never have opposed Queen Elizabeth had she been thought Legitimate For if as the Minister urged in the beginning they obeyed her whom they thought an Usurper for ten years though she had utterly destroyed their Religion 't is then more then probable had her Title been good in their opinion they had submitted let her Faith have been what it would These doubts being thus resolved by the very Gentleman that proposed them who cares not if he can wound us for the present into what contradictions at last he runs himself I may I hope since he hath shewed me the example propose a Query also and I shall thank him if out of my Reply he gives the Solution I will not urge my Question so far as to suppose the Queen of Scots had been a Protestant but my demand shall be singly this Whether the Reformed in those days would have quietly obeyed Queen Elizabeth had she stood up for the Catholick Religion Reader because the Parson is not ready to give his determination I will tell you my opinion which is that I think they would not and doubtless this coÌ„jecture is not rash when we consider what has been done here and recorded by our Protestant Historians themselves Have we not seen that for the safety of Religion Edward the Sixth gave away by the advice of his Councel the Kingdom to Jane Gray and what Bees could be so busie as Cranmer and Ridley with many thousands more to set up against their lawful Queen Mary that poor Lady who had not right enough by blood and much less if she depended wholly upon the Will for that was void from the beginning according to the known Laws of the Land How many treasonable Books were written against this Queen after she came to the Crown by Mr. Goodman and others asserting That she ought to be put to death as a Tyrant Monster and cruel Beast Will Thomas also conspired to murther her and when he was to be hanged for his Treason he said he died for his Countrey By all which may be gathered the Duke of Suffolke also with many more protestants being ready and Wiat actually in an open and dangerous rebellion how dangerous it was then in England for a Prince to be a Papist though to that day there had never sat but one through Protestant upon the Throne and he a Child about sixteen when he died But now I must descend to a far more tragical example even to the death of the so often mentioned Qu. of Scots who lost her life barely upon the account of her Religion 'T is true Queen Elizabeth considered her own safety but the fury of the Nobility and people without whose incitement she durst not have been beheaded was purely for fear she might have survived Queen Elizabeth and being then the undoubted Successour might have changed Religion as the former Queen Mary had done before If I should urge this barely upon my own word I might be mistrusted therefore what I say shall be out of Cambden who was not only a Protestant but the acknowledged true Annalist of those times He will tell you that after Babingtons Conspiracy in the consultation what should be done with the Royal Prisoner some were for holding her in safe custody but others out of care of Religion would have her tried and exexecuted In pursuance then of this advice she was condemned and the next Parliament the House petitioned for the execution of her Sentence The first reason in their supplicate was for the preservation of the true Religion of Christ and after they had told Queen Elizabeth also of her own danger they harpt again upoÌ„ the former string desiring her to remeÌ„ber Gods fearful judgments upon Saul and Ahab for their sparing Benhadad and Agag two wicked and profane Idolaters In fine when the fatal day came though they were so very severe as to deny her being a Guest and a free Princess what all Embassadours
Oath was given but seeing that no Oath could be given 't was hard me thought that the whole Town should take all things as unquestionable truths though the Accusers were as I said profest enemies to us and lately to the very Kingdom also But now I thank God men understand themselves much better for Lies can never long endure SECT XXXIV APOLOGY It cannot be imagined where there 's so many men of heat and youth overjoy'd with the happy Restauration of their Prince and remembring the Insolencies of the former Grandees that they should all at all times prudently carry themselves for this would be to be more then men And truly wee esteem it as a particular blessing that God has not suffer'd many through vanitie or frailty to fall into greater faults then are yet as we understand laid to our charge ANSWER XXIV He says If a Jesuite keep the reckoning the King will ever be in our debt for our old Treasons were upon the account of his Family and our late insolencies upon the score of his Restauration Then he asks whether I would seriously perswade men that at six years distance we were still transported with that blessing There were he says fresher causes of jollity suspected by many who saw our joy while the fire raged in London and two potent Enemies hovered on our Coasts REPLY to ANSW XXXIV Many Accusations Reader were of two or three yaers standing and more and no one thing amounted to a real Publick nuissance let a man then cōsider this soberly and he will find it no little wonder that so many Catholiques of all Ranks Sexes Ages and humours should for above six years together never so far indulge to their Passions as to commit a fault fit to trouble Parliament with though from all Countries the violentest of their Enemies came to offer up their complaints against them For my part I do greatly admire at it and must acknowledge a particular Providēce assisting nor can I but thank the Publisher of the Accusations who malitiously intending us harm has done us all the right imaginable SECT XXV APOLOGY Can we chuse but be dismay'd when all things fail that extravagant Crimes are fathered on us It is we that must be the Authors some say of firing the Citie even we that have lost so vastly by it Yet truly in this our ingenuity is great since we think it no Plot though our Enemie an Hugonot Protestant acknowledged the fact and was justly executed for his vain Confession Again if a Merchant of the Church of England buy Knives for the business of his Trade this also presently is a Popish contrivance to destroy the well-affected ANSWER XXXV He says Though we lost vastly by he fire of London yet we may still be suspected by any body that considers Garnets determinations viz. that the innocent guilty may be destroyed so it be to a farther good The loss it seems he says goes not to my heart when I can be so pleasant to call Hubert my enemy and a Hugonot Protestant 't is true after that Hubert had been at confession with Father Harvey he said he was a Protestant but it being beyond his instructions he denied he was a Hugonot which he might well do because he said he thought confession to a Priest necessary to salvation and also repeated an Ave Mary which he said was his usual Prayer 'T is evident therefore that he was no Hugonot nor Protestant nor enemy to Papists upon the account of Religion REPLY to ANSW XXXV Concerning this Hubert a Frenchman that pretended to burn the City you must know He was son to a Protestant a Protestant himself in France had been of the French Church in England to the Committee and to the Judge at the Bar he profest then he was a Protestant and died so at the Gallows Certainly it was no Argument he was no Protestant because he as the Minister says esteemed of Confession for I know many Protestants that have used it some Divines have writ in behalf of it and I remember Dr. Will was mightily for it whem he governed his flock in Fleerstreet An Ave Mary is Scripture and whosoever reads the Salatation of the Angel and St. Elizab. does at that time actually say one Besides if no body is a Protestant that holds peculiar opinions then I must conclude there are very few Protestants in the World for Protestants in Religion agree only in Negatives that is they generally deny thé Pope Purgatory c. but when they come to Positives they jar and then divide and subdivide as we by experience see into a million of Sects and Factions Reader before I go farther I must tell you who this Harvey is by Nation he is a Low-Countryman but admitted among the English Jesuites as many Aliens are He is an antient quiet and pious man 't is lately I knew him but found him to be of a very Angelical conversation Many Priests being frō time to time imprisoned brought him acquainted with Newgate where sometimes he assisted those that went to die This I call high charity in any man of any Sect to take pains to make another of that Religion which his Conscience tells him is most agreeable to God Nor is there any humane interest or Policy in thus assisting Malefactours for they are poor of themselves and sure to die the next execution-day By this occasion Mr. Harvey met with the French Hugonot the pretended firer of London with whom he had discourse about Religion and after he had instructed him in the Catholique Doctrine he went to administer the Communion to the Company and then demanding of them whether they received according to the Roman Catholick faith Hubert said He had nothing to do with Roman and therefore the Sacrament was refused him nor did Mr. Harvey ever se him after This is the truth of the Story But pray what is the Frenchman to us had he been Papist though as it happened he lived and died otherwise For my part I believe there are few Frenchmen now in London but would be glad to see it afire again either for an opportunity to steal or for the advantage of their Prince were he at War with us the like would the English wish at Paris I dare say Consider therefore Reader I beseech you my Answerer and though 't is at no time my humour to give foul language yet I must say I challenge all Englād to find out one that shall excel him in ill He has accused us for the Murther of King Charles the cause of the English Irish and Scotish War the triumphing at ourmis fortunes at Sea the rejoycing for the Enemies being upon our Coast and then lastly the burning of Londō it self yet all this urged without any manner of proof no not so much as the least probability Is one detraction against one onely man a sin and punishable at the Judgment-seat of God hereafter and shall so various aspersions against so many
for I am sure crying against Papists was then the former Prologue and though the aim of wicked people be still the same I hope the Epilogue will be far different Fifth Sect. Not to abuse the weakness of dying persons nor convert the condemned Prisoners with drink or by hopes of an easier way of salvation To this I answer The Minister ought not to call the condition of dying persons weak because he and his brethren have always found them strong for I think no man ever heard that a Catholick was converted by them at his death and all have been able to resist that in their Agony to which worldly ends made some in their healths yeild But now if Catholicks have reconciled dying persons it must be wholly attributed to the truth of their Doctrine for then all hopes of life being taken away men will hearken to that reason which during health through temporal advantages they earnestly opposed Nay few of these if they recover start back but on the contrary persevere I say these Conversions must needs proceed from the conviction of the Truth and not from hopes of any easier way of salvation because the Protestant way is far easier and naturally more sutable to the inclinatioÌ„s of dying men For an ordinary trust in the merits of Christ and an ordinary contrition usual to all people that are said not to die ill will according to the Reformed Hypothesis carry a man presently to Heaven when as this in the opinion of any Catholicks and of the Agonising party himself will bring him at farthest but to Purgatory The entrance into Heaven is not so easie a passage with us for it must be obtained with long Mortifications conflicts and labours far greater then those of Hercules or else in men of ill lives by some unexpressible energy at the last gasp like that of the Thief on the Cross Vain therefore is the imagination of Protestants for we have no other means to convert men but as I said the force of truth on their Consciences which truth in that state they can discern as men fallen into miserie do oftentimes the vanities of the World when as in strength of body through humane designs like the adder they stop their ears let the Charmer charm never so sweetly Many advantages more were it not time ho have done with the Minister could I shew that the Protestants have naturally over Catholicks in converting of dying people but they never converted one as I heard of yet he confesses many have been by us Besides this I beseech you Reader to look upon the lives of those that leave the Protestant Religion to come to us and then shew me any one of them that lives worse then he did before Some perchance there bâ— and those almost as rare as black swans themselves that mend not the depravity of their first manners though none as I said fall to worse but for the rest they apparently cast off the old man and shew the wonderful fruits of Grace by their holy life and conversation On the other side good Protestant Reader name me that man amongst you who left the Catholique Church and fell not immediately into all licentiousness and vice call but to mind Gage Cary Rookwood Carpenter Macedo the late converted Portugeze or any other whom you please and see if they had one unclean spirit in them when they were Papists whether seven Divels each worse then the former afterward entered not into them Truly this is no wonder because they forsook their Religion for liberty and followed the pattern of Luther their first Master and Teacher For he while he was a Monk punisht his body with watching and fasting as S. Voyon a Protestant coÌ„fesses But afterwards he lived otherwise as another Protestant affirms for he says That when Protestants would indulge their appetite they would not be ashamed to use these words Let us live Luther like to day Sixth Sect. Not to hinder the course of Justice on Criminals because they are Papists To this I say I understand not what he means but if any Papist has sollicited for another of his Religion which was to die I think 't is not unlawful No man of any Religion being denied to use their endeavours to save their Friends and Relations that fall by chance into these misfortunes But herein we shall obey his advice for unless it be by some unphappy duells the Catholicks come seldome within the the reach of Criminal Laws Seventh Sect. That Priests disguize not themselves like Hectors and poyson Clubs and Coffee houses with Phanatick discourses To this I answer that if Phanaticism be the discourse of a Priest I doubt this Minister is one also for never did Jacob Behmen Stifler or any of the Fraternity write more malitious self contradicting things then he or that have in them more inferences of confusion and disorder In the next place if Priests disguize themselves I think 't is not their faults and if the Minister will get them liberty to wear their habit I will be bound they shall never go more in Mascarade Besides being thus known by every body we then shall plainly see who they be that at Taverns and Meeting-places corrupt the Youth And truly Reader I am very morally certain that this Answerer is a haunter of them for the old Proverb tells us who calls Whore first Eighth Sect. That Priests and Iesuites fill not the World with Pamphlets Philanaxes Exhortations Apologies c. which serâ—â— â—e says only to fermeÌ„t mens passioÌ„s and not to convince their Reasons If we come into the fair field of Controversie we shal not be declined and the Minister thinks his party not indebted to us upon that account Good Mr. Parson you very well know that the Philanaxes Exhortations Apologies c. were writ by Lay-mâ—n and therefore you might have spared this last advice since 't was as needless as the rest of your false and malitious writing And by the way remember how you have perverted and falsely commented on a Loyal mans learned work this very Exhortation which you mention His words Reader are these As for the Roman Pastors indirect power over Kings in ordine ad Spiritualia by which the Sea Apostolical in some rare Cases hath at the request of all Christians proceeded to censure and deprive Kings a thing so much talkt of and so little understood by the Reformed Divines I leave that Question to be decided by the two Supream Powers when occasion shall be for it ' which may not happen to the end of the World It being a very rare Case in which it were not better that such matters were wholly left till the day of Judgment Now the sum of this is as the Minister says that if the Pope should deprive our King this Catholick would not meddle between them When as his true meaning was That this case between Popes and Kings will happeÌ„ seldome if ever and should it happen he will not as
good therefore I am sure can come to Protestants by it much harm perchance may since it will stir up Catholique Governours to use the like severity to dissenting Subjects who otherwise might live in greater tranquillity and ease 'T is not we that proclaim our persecution as this Minister taxes us in forreign parts but the Agents of Princes who comment as they please on things and fill Europe with noise that the English of all people are most ungrateful being earnest to have that done against their tried friends which Cromwel was almost ashamed to do though we were his profes't and sworn Enemies I shall never omit to render my thanks to Almighty God that I know not one who staggers the least in duty for all this our reproach and suffering Who is it that now loves the Dutch one whit the more or who is it that contemns not a Frenchman whilst he is an Enemy to England Nor did ever any Party in this Isle That deemed it self opprest by Laws before fail of favouring those that were in hostility with the Kingdom The Presbyterians in Scotland were up actually in Arms when two the powerfullest Nations of Europe assisted also with Denmark made the last War upon us And for the Independants all who were in pay in Holland openly abjured their Countrey and many of them headed by Doleman did us the mischief at Chattam for forreign Nations must never hope to foil the English without the additional courage of English Just contrary to this has been the procedure of Catholicks for not only the Scotish Papists with their Commander my Lord Douglas left France upon the breach but valiantly also fought with the loss of many of their lives when those Traytors as I said at Chattham assisted the Dutch last summer I need not repeat how zealous the Popish Guards were in all these three years Wars every body being an eye-witness of it and for the Papists abroad I am sure they have been so earnest for the Honor of the Nation that at Paris Flandres Rome Liege c. they were still detecting the Dutch forgeries and proclaiming our Victories to all People Nay the HollaÌ„ders were ever so sensible of the fervour of the English Catholicks in behalf of their Country that when De Wit was solliciting for a Guard he caused it to be published in the Gazzets of Amsterdam that he was in danger of his life for that two of our Jesuits had undertaken to kill him Consider therefore Loyal Sirs our services and though in themselves they are but Duties yet Duties may sometimes merit a reward at least for the inciting of others Nothing assuredly can ever settle more our Country in peace then the free liberty of Religion and if the tenderness of the Kings heart as all the world knows him merciful should move him to hear the cry of his late Enemies and grant them the enjoyment of their Consciences certainly no body could think it straÌ„ge if he gave the same freedom to us his friends who never yet deserted him or his Father in their greatest misfortunes and sufferings Nay moreover if there be still pity left amongst mankind upon that score also had Papists no other Plea we might more justly pretend to Indulgence then any Nonconformist whatsoever For none of the Sects can in reality alledge more then that the Protestant manner of worship is nauseous and of no edification to them my Reason is because we see â—t least the Rich in all Countries go often to Church and yet are owned still members by the Party Now such a Conformity is diametrically opposite to the Conscience of a Catholick and any such Communion is a deadly sin We are not here to Dispute whether Papists are not too scrupulous for this Argument may be used against any one of a contrary JudgmeÌ„t But supposing such and such things are the points of a Religion and favour desired in the suspension of Laws I say Mercy is fitter for them that according to the profession of their Faith cannot comply without sinning then for those that do it without such offence and truly I am not so disingenious as to believe that were this Conformity in their own Opinion a sin that so many persons of all Orders amongst the Presbiterians and Independents would have gone to Church or that their respective Congregations would have still received them as theirs This favour I crave I wish for all people as well as for my self for I cannot be so partial as to think my Conscience ought not to be forced and yet that my Neighbour may dispence with the scruples he finds in his Punishment never lessens the ResolutioÌ„s of ChristiaÌ„s but always heightens Zeal and draws sometimes wellmeaning men into those Leagued Factions which ease and favour would assuredly have prevented What thoughts can men have when they find not themselves opprest but the publick interest of their Country It follows not also that Toleration prejudices the establisht Religion of a Nation for experimentally we see the Calvinists of France never had fewer Proselytes then when they were securest from Massacres and the like Whilst the House of Valois was in being which used the great rigour they speake of their History declares how numerous they grew but since those of Burbon were Kings who toucht neither Life nor Estate only took away Garisons the Nests of Rebellion I never found they much vaunted in theire Conversions and increase My Lords and Gentlemen Religion is God Almightie's own Cause and for manifestation of the Elect Heresies are permitted 'T is he only and that at the last day also that shall satisfactorily convince us all who is in the right Persecution therefore may easily disioint a Kingdom but can never destroy this Hydra when she is fully rouz'd But now afore I end I must here declare if any other ill men such as this Minister and his Momentous friend who writ the Discourse of the Religion of England hope by Persecution of Papists to make us the less passionate for the Government when their Plots are ripe they cozen themselves and reckon without their Host for the Travellers-Cloak which is our tried Allegeance to lawful Power can never be blown up by a Wind. And if Papists were so fleeting as for affliction to renounce a duty which they hold be the Command of God why should they do you think suffer for Conscience since by going to Church or taking Oaths they may when they please enjoy the ample Priviledges of their Birthright Take this therefore for a certain Maxime That be who is faithful to God can never be unfaithful to his Country and I am sure in all kinds of disorders about ReligioÌ„ here at home the Reformed in each of their respective Sects have been far more faulty then we if we consider as I said what was done against QueeÌ„ Mary the usage of the QueeÌ„ of scots or the late unparallel'd RebellioÌ„ neither for these many years have the Papists