they do meane the Pope for the time being Now to this height the Pope came under pretence of the Churches government the Churches discipline racking the spirituall censure to a civill punishment by the Church solemnities in crowning Emperors by his Excommunications Absolutions and Dispensations he rose to his greatnesse of state by the doctrine of workes meritorious Iubilees Pardons and Indulgences hee maintained his State And now I come to shew out of good Authors that in nine severall weighty poynts of Religion the best guides of Gods Church for the space of 1500 yeares have taught as the Church of England doth THE FIRST CENTVRIE From the first yeare of Grace unto the yeare One Hundred Christ Iesus and his Apostles the Protestants Founders PAPIST WHom doe you name in this first Age that taught the Protestant Faith PROTESTANT I name our blessed Saviour Christ Iesus and his Apostles Saint Paul and his Schollers Titus and Timothie together with the Churches which they planted as that of the Romanes Corinthians and the rest These I name for our first Founders and top of our kin as also Ioseph of Arimathea that buried Christs body a speciall Benefactor to the Religion planted in this land These taught for substance and in the positive grounds of religion as we doe in our Articles Liturgies Homilies and Apologies by publike authoritie established in our Church of England Besides these there were but few Writers in this age whose undoubted Works have come to our hands yet for instance sake I name that blessed Martyr of Christ Ignatius Bishop of Antioch who for the name of Iesus was sentenced to bee dâ—voured of wild beasts which hee patiently indured saying I am the Wheat or graine to bee ground with the teeth of beasts that I may be pure Bread for my Masters tooth let fire rackes pulleys yea and all the torments of Hell come on mee so I may winne Christ. Here also according to the Roman Register I might place Dionysius Areopagita whom they usually place in this first Age as if hee were that Denys mentioned in the Actes whereas indeed hee is a post natus and in all likelihood lived about the fourth Age and not in this first for Denys saith That the Christians had solemne Temples like the Iewes and the Chancell severed with such and such sanctification from the rest of the Church whereas the Christians in this fiâ—st age made their assemblies to prayer both in such private places and with such simplicitie as the Apostles did and as the times of persecution suffered them Againe Denys tells us that when hee wrote Monkes were risen and they of credit in the Churches and many Ceremonies to hallow them whereas in the Apostles time when the true Dionysius lived Monkes were not heard of yea Chrysostome saith That when Paul wrote his Epistle to the Hebrewes there was not then so much as any footstep of a Monke PA. I challenge Saint Denys for ours hee was as our Rhemists say all for the Catholikes PRO. Take him as he is and as he comes to our hands hee is not wholly yours but in some things cleane contrary to you as namely in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper wherein you vary from us most Besides hee hath not your sole receiving of the Priest nor ministring under one kind to them who receive nor Exhortations Lessons Prayers in a tongue which the people understand not he hath not your Invocation of Saints noâ— adoration of creatures nor sacrificing of Christ to God nor praying for the soules in purgatory so that in things of substance and not of ceremony onely he is ours and not yours as I hope will appeare by his Writings for we will for the time suppose him to be a Father of this first age although the bookes which beare Saint Denys his name seeme to bee written in the fourth or fifth age after Christ. PAP Can you proove that Christ and his Apostles taught as you doe PRO. Wee have cleare testimonies of Scripture which appoint Gods people to receive the blessed Cup in the Sacrament and to be present at such a divine service as themselves understand wee have expresse command forbidding Image-worship against Invocation of Saints it is said that Abraham knoweth us not and Isaac is ignorant of us and the blessed Angel refused all religious honour and Adoration Likewise against Merit of workes and workes of Super-erogation it is said that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall bee revealed in us and that wee are unproâ—itable servants when we have done all that was commanded us we have but done that which was our dutie to doe and the like PA. You alleadge Scripture and so doe wee yea in some things the Scripture is plaine for us as where it is said This is my Bodie PRO. What though it make for you in shew so doth it for the Anabaptists where it is said that the Christians had all things common you will not hence inferre that because in such an extremitie their charitie for the reliefe of others made things common concerning the use that therefore we should have no property in the goods that God hath given us It is not the shew and semblance of words but the sense thereof that imports the truth Saint Paul sayes of his Corinths Ye are the body of Christ yet not meaning any Transubstantiation of substance but hâ—reof anon in his due place PA. The Scriptures make not for you but as you have translated them PRO. For any point we hold we referre our selves to the Originalls yea wee say further let the indifferent Christian Reader who hath but tollerable understanding of the Latine Tongue compare our English translations with those which your owne men Pagnine Arias Montanus and others have published and they will finde but little countenance for Poperie and namely for Communion in one kind and Service in a strange Tongue which as is already proved hath bene decreed directly contrary to Gods expresse word but let us come to the particulars Of the Scriptures sufficiency and Canon The Church of England holds that Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation so that theâ—e is no doctrine necessary for our everlasting salvation but that is or may bee drawne out of that Fountaine of truth as being either expressely therein contained or such as by sound inference may bee deduced from thence and this is witnessed by Saint Paul saying that they are able to make us wise unto salvation that the man of God may bee perfited and throughly furnished unto all good workes which they should not bee able to doe if they contained not a perfect doctrine of all such poynts of faith as we are bound to bâ—leeve and duties to bee practised And if it be said that S. Paul speakes of the man of God such an one as
lesse moment and danger such as blemished indeed but tooke not away the Churches being and that they held the true foundation of Religion that is Iustification and Salvation by Iesus Christ his merits onely God dealing graciously with our fore-fathers in that this point was ordinarily taught in their bookes of Visitation and Consolation of the sicke In this respect wee hope that divers both formerly and in our dayes who live Papists die Protestants for howsoever in their life time they talke of Workes Merits and Satisfaction to God yet on their death-bed divers of them find little comfort in Crosses and Crucifixes Pictures and Popes pardons in Agnus Dei's blessed Gâ—aines Reliques and the like then they renounce all meere humane satisfaction merit and workes and breath out their last breath in the Protestant language of that holy Martyr Master Lambert who lift up his hands such hands as he had and his fingers ends flaming with fire and cried out to the people in these words None but Christ none but Christ. The example of Stephen Garâ—iner Bishop of Winchester is notable to this purpose when the Bishop lay sicke on his death-bed and Doctor Day Bishop of Chichester comming to visit him began to comfort him repeating to him such places of Scripture as did expresse or import the free justification of a repentant sinner in the blood of Christ hereunto Winchester replyed What my Lord quoth he will you open that gap now then farewâ—ll altogether you may tell this to such as me and others in my case but open once this window to the people and then farewell altogether Laâ—tly we are not simply and in euery thing to follow our Ancestors it was the argument of Simmachus the heathen Our religion which hath continued so long is to bee retained and our Ancestors to be followed by us who happily traced their fore fathers but the Loâ—d saith Walke yee not in the ordinances of your fore-fathers neither after their manners nor defile your sâ—lves with their Idols I am the Lord your God walke yee in my statuâ—es and keepe them and not after your vaine conversation which yee have received by the tradition of the Fathers as Saint Peter speakes Object If you hope so well of our fore-fathers why hope you not so well of us their children Answer The parties are not alike besides there is great difference of the times then and now the former were times of ignorance these are the dayes wherein light is come into the world in what they erred they erred ignorantly following the conduct of their guides doing as they taught them and so were mislead as Saint Austine saith Errantes ab errantibus by their blind guides but upon better information wee presume they would have reformed their errours Now he is more to bee pitied who stumbleth in the darke than in the day-light men are now admonished of their erâ—rours offer is made to them to be better instructed so that their censure will bee heavier if either they dote on their owne opinions unwilling to bee instructed in the reveled truth or after sufficient knowlâ—dge and conviction for some worldly respects they wilfully and obstinatly persist in their old errors and which is farre worse hate and persecute the maintainers of the truth Saint Cyprian saith If any of our Predecessors either of ignorance of simplicity hath noâ— observed and held that which our Lord hath taught us by his word and example by the Lords mercy pardon might bee granted to his simplicitie but to us that are now admonished and instructed of the Lord pardon cannot bee granted Saint Augustine puts a difference betwixt Heretikes and them that beleeve Heretikes and he saith farther They that defend an opinion false and perverse without pertinacious selfe-mindednesse especially which not the boldnâ—sse of their owne presumption hath begotten but which from their seduced and erronious Parents they have received and themselves doe seeke the truth with care and diligence ready to amend their errour when they find the truth they are in no wise to bee reckoned among Heretikes this was the case of our Fathers under the Papacie In a word our Fathers they lived in those errours of ignorance not of obstinacie and knew not the dangerous consequence of them such men by particular repenâ—ance of sinnes knowne and generall repentance of unknowne might by Gods mercie be saved Object If holding the foundation will serve as you seeme to say in the case of our fore-fathers then we may safely obtaine salvation in the Church of Rome Answer This followeth not for the Church of Rome buildeth many things which by consequent destroy the foundation Rome doth both hold the foundation and destroy it she holds it directly destroyes it by consequent As the Galathians held the foundation to wit salvation by Iesus Christ and yet withall held a necessity of joyning Circumcision with Christ which doctrine by consequence destroyed the very foundation for so Saint Paul wrote unto them Galat. 5.2.4 If they were circumcised Christ profited them nothing hâ—e became of none effect unto them they were fallen from gracâ— In like sort Poperie opposeth the Faith not directly but obliquely not formally but virtually not in expresse termes but by consequence Poperie overthrowes the foundation by consequence whiles it brings on so many stories of unsound adjections and corrupt super-additions upon the ancient ground-sole of Religion as are like to â—ndanger the whole frame The learned and acute Doctor Doctor Hall now Lord Bishop of Exceter gives severall instances hereof Poperie overthroweth the truth of our Iustification whiles it ascribes it to our owne works the All-sufficiencie of Christs owne Sacrifice whiles they reiterate it daily by the hands of a Priest Of his Satisfaction while thâ—y hold a payment of our utmost farthings in a devised Purgatorie Of his Mediation while they implore others to ayde them not onely by their Intercession but their Merits suing not onely for their prayers but their gifts the value of the Scriptures whiles they hold them unsufficient obscure in points essâ—ntiall to salvation and bind them to an uncertaine dâ—pendance upon the Church Now for the simpler sort whilâ—s in truth of heart they hold the maine principles which they know doubtlâ—sse the mercy of God may passe over their ignorant weakenesse in what they cannot know For the other I feare not to say that many of their errours are wilfull The light of truth hath shined out of heaven to them and they loved darkenesse more than lighâ— Thus farre that learned â—ishop PA. The Protestants at â—ast many of them conâ—â—sse there may be salvation in our Church we absolutely deny thereâ—s salvâ—tion in theirs therefore it is safâ—r to come to ours than to sâ—ay in theirs to be where almost all grant salvation than where the greater part of the world deny it PRO. This point is fully cleered by the judicious Author of the Answer to
THE PROTESTANTS EVIDENCE TAKEN OVT OF GOOD â—â—â—ORDS Shewing that for Fifteene hundred yeares next after CHRIST divers worthy â—uides of Gods Church have in sundry weightie poynts of Religion taught as the Church of England now doth DISTRIBVTED INTO SEVERALL CENTVRIES and opened By SIMON BIRCKBEK Bachelor in Divinitie sometime Fellow of Queenes Colledge in Oxford and now Minister of Gods Word 〈◊〉 Gilling in RICHMONDSHIRE LONDON Printed for Robert Milbourne and are to bee sold at the Signe of the Grayhound in Pauls Church-yard 1635. TO THE RIGHT WORshiâ—full HVâ—FREY VVHARTOâ— of Gillingwood Esquire Receiver Generall of his Majesties Râ—vâ—nues within the Arch-Deaconry of Richmond the Bishopricke of Durham and Northumberlaâ—d my mâ—ch respected Patron Gâ—ace and Peace bee multiplied Sir THe free accesse which you made mee for the exercise of my Ministerie within your donation what time besides other Sutors you had a sonne of your owne whose sufficiencie of Gifts might have anti-dated his yeares and made him capable of greater Preferment had God been pleased to have continued his life hath so farre engaged mee unto you that I have laid hold on the first oportunitie whereby I might manifest my thankefulnesse unto you which I could not better expresse than by Dedicating this Treatise to your Name and Memory beseeching God that as hee hath hitherto done great things for you and given you a Benjamins portion above your brethren so hee would still continue his favours to you and yours and blesse you both in your owne person and in your fruitfull promising off-spring Now if this Treatise seeme not no sutable a Present either to your yeares or disposition which call you indeed rather to a poynt of Devotion than Disputation the truth is it is a Controversall Treatise yet it is withall a just and Defensive War which I have undertaken rather for the clearing of our owne cast than the infesting of others and the end I aime at is to discover the truth and guide others therein And I know it would please you at the heart to see such as have gone astray reduced into the old way which the Prophet calls the Good way If any shall reape benefit by this Worke and thanke the Authour for his paines I shall foorthwith take them up and bestow them whâ—re they are due namely next under God upon your selfe upon whose Gleabe these first Fruits of mine grew and are now in such sort as you see gathered into this Store-house and sequestred into severall Centuries for the Churches use and benefit by one of her meanest Proctors but Your much bounden Kinsman and Beneficiary SIMON BIRCKBEK TO THE READER CHristian Reader this Treatise was first occasioned and afterwards composed in maner as followeth The Prophet Hosea saith of Ephraim that hee had mixt himselfe among the people that Ephraim was as a Cake on the hearth not turned baked on the one side and raw upon the other that is in poynt of Religion was partly a Iew and partly a Gentile It was my lot to fall upon a Charge which like Ephraim was part Protestant part Papall and the one side questioned with the other Where their Religion was before Luther Whereunto I addressed such answere as I thought might satisfie the weake and represse the clamourous but the matter growing to farther debate it occasioned me to draw a Catalogue of our Professors Now it fell out that about the same time M Doctor â—eâ—â—ly one who is excâ—llently verst in Controversies had with good successe stood up in this quarrell with Iesuit Fisher. I acquainted him therefore with the businesse and he gave mee the right hand of Fellowship encouraging me to go on with my Catalogue but I found it too hard a taske for me though I had good helps from others namely from the wel-furnished Libraries of my much respected friends Master D. Potter the worthy and learned Provost of Queenes Colledg in Oxford and Mr. W. Richardson Minister of Gods Word at Borough Church in Westmerland a very learned and revereâ—d Divine also my good neighbour M. Nathaniel Hawksworth to procure such Records as might prescribe for 1500 yeares together so that it caused me travell as far as Oxford there to visit those famous private and publike Libraries where I became an eye-witnesse of divers parcels of Evidence wherof I made use in this Treatise And now haviâ—g my materialls about mee I thoughâ— my selfe tollerablie furnisht for the Worke and yet if I had had â—he whole Bodleian-Vaticane Library about me I might sometime have bin at a stand if I had not had some Living Librarie to consult withall Whereupon having to deale with a companie of subtill Adversaries like the sonnes of Zerviah of whom David complained that they were too hard for him and lest the truth and the Churches Cause might seeme to suffer through my weaknesse I repaired by entercourse of Letters to my learned Counsell Mr. Dr. Featly and hee I thanke him was readie to resolve me when I was in doubt and to direct mee yea and correct mee also when I was at default and indeed I was well pleased with the Obeliskes and dashes of his pen for as Salomon saith The wounds of a lover are faithfull I have used the helpe of Ancient and Moderne Writers forreine and domestick and namely the Reverend and learned Bishops and Doctors of our Church insomuch as I may say in Samsons language That if I had not ploughed with their Heifer I had not so easily unfolded divers Popish Riddles I have dealt faithfully in the businesse not wresting nor wittingly misalleadging any Authours testimonie nor yet sleightly proposing the Adversaries Argument for that had beene to have set up a shaw-fowle of mine owne framing and then have battered it in pieces with mine owne Ordnaâ—ce but I have done as the Israelites who went downe to the Philistims to sharpen their tooles I have set as keene an edge on the Adversaries Arguments as Bellarmines Parsons or Brereleyes Forge could afford I confâ—sse the Worke is larger than I either desired or expected but it could not well bee otherwise and speake fully to a thousand yeares and a halfe and withall cleere the Evidence as it went from the Exceptions of the Adversary I have also been long about it and so my worthy Doctor tells mee but withall hee puts mee in hope it may prove like the Cypresse tree which though it bee long a growing yet whâ—n once it is growen up to a tree the shade of it sâ—rves for an harbour to the child unborne the issue hereof I leave to GOD. This onely I may truely say of this Worke It hath stood mee to some charges and cost mee much paines and travell Al which were it an hundred times more than it is I should thinke well bestowed if the Church of God and my Charge profit by me and the Christian Reader pray for me S. B. Cataloguâ— Testium Veritatis OR A Catalogue of
when as those Kings caused the Temple to be shut up the Sacrifice to cease and erected Idols in every Towne Besides at our Saviours comming we find but a short Catalogue of true professors mentioned to wit Ioseph and Mary Zacharie and Elizabeth Simeon and Anna the Shepherds in the fields and some others When Christ suffered death his little flocke as hee called it was scattered his disciple â—led and none almost durst shew themselves save Mary and Iohn and some few women with oâ—hers After our Saviours death the Apostles and their followers were glad to meet in Chambers whiles the Priests Scribes and Pharisees bare all the sway in the Temple â—o that as the Treatise of the true Câ—urchâ—s visibilitie haâ—h it if a weâ—ke body had then enquired for the Church it is likely they had beene directed to them In â—he time of those Ten persecutions there could not be any knowne assembly of Christians but foorthwith â—he Tyranâ—s labouâ—ed to root them out but as Tâ—rtullian saith The blood of the Martyrs was the seed of the Church they were peâ—secuted and yet they increased Afâ—erwards when the Arrian Heresie overspread all so that all the world was against Athanasius and he and some few Confesâ—ors stood for the Nicen Faith insomuch as Hierome said The world sighed and groaned marveiling at it selfe how it was become Arrian what a slender appearance did the true professors then make and yet in such dangerous and revolting times even small assemblies of particular congregations wheresoever dispersed serve to make up the universal Church Militant so that the Reader is not to be discouraged if hee find not the Protestant Assemblies so thronged since it was not so with the primative Church and S. Iohn foretold That the woman that is the Church persecuted by the Dragon that old Serpent the Devill and his instruments should flie into the Wildernesse where the Lord promised to hide her till the tempest of persecution were over-blowne wherein God dealt graciously with his Church for had her enemies alwayes seene and knowne her professors they would like cruell beastes have laboured to devoure the damme with her young the mother with her children Now whereas the Papists brag of their Churches Visibilitie their owne Rhemists are driven to confesse that in the raigne of Antichrist the outward state of the Romane Chuâ—ch and the publike entercourse of the faithfull with the same may cease and practise their Religion in secret And Iesuite Suarez thinkes it probable That the Pope shall professe his faith in secret Where is then your Tabernacle in the Sunne your light in the Candlesticke when as your Church and Pope shall walke with a darke Lanterne and say Masse in a corner PA. Why was not the Church alwayes so conspicuous PRO. Because sometimes her best members as Athanasius Hilarie Ambrose and others were persecuted as Heretikes and ungodly men and that by learned persons and such as were powerfull in the world able to draw great troupes after them of such as for hope favour feare or the like respects were ready to follow them In this and the like case when false Priestes broach errours and deceive many Tyrants persecute Gods Saints and cause others to retire then I say when the faithfull want their ordinarie entercourse one with another the number of the Church malignant maybe great in comparison of those that belong to the true Church PA. If the Church were not alwayes so conspicuous in what sort then was it visible a visible Church you grant PRO. In the generall militant Church there have in all ages been some Pastors and people more or lesse that have outwardly taught the truth of Religion in substance though not free from errour in all poynts and these have beene visible by their ordinary standing in some part of Gods Church Besides for the more part there have bin also some that withstood and condemned the grosse errours and superstition of their times and these good men whiles they were suffered taught the truth openly but being persecuted by such as went under the Churches name even then also they taught and administred the Sacraments in private to such faithfull ones as would joyne with them and even in those harder times they manifested their Religion by their Writings Letters Confessions at their Iudgement Martyrdome or otherwise as they could Now as learned Doctor White in his Defence of his Brothers booke hath observed whensoever there bee any Pastors in the world which â—ither in an open view or in the presence of any part thereof doe exercise though in private the actions of true Religion by sound teaching the truth and right administration of the Sacraments this is sufficient to make the Church visible by such a manner of visibilitie as may serve for the gathering and preserving of Gods elect Now such visible Pastors and people the Protestant Church was never utterly destitute of PA. You seeme to make the Church both visible and invisible PRO. May not one bee within and seene with his friends and yet hidden to his enemies visible to the seeing and invisible to the blind Indeed Tyrants Infidells and Heretikes they knew the true beleevers as men of another profession but blinded with malice and unbeliefe they acknowledged them not for true professors as M. Bradford told D. Day Bishop of Chichester the fault why the Church is not seene of you is not because the Church is not visible but because your eyes are not cleare enough to see it and indeed such as put not on the spectacles of the Word to finde out the Church but seeke for her in outward pompe are much mistaken Aelian in his History tels us of one Nicostratus who being a well-skilled Artisan and finding a curious piece of worke drawne by Xeuxis that famous Painter one who stood by wondered at him and asked him what pleasure hee could take to stand as hee did still gazing on the picture to whom hee answered Hadst thou mine eyes my friend thou wouldest not wonder nor aske me that question but rather be ravished as I am at the inimitable art of this rare and admired piece In like manner if our Adversaries had their eyes annoynted with the eye-salve of the holy Spirit they might easily discover the Protestant Church and her visible congregations The Aramites 2 Kings 6. chap. could not discerne the citie of Samaria whither the Prophet led them untill their eyes were opened no more can one discerne or difference the true Church from the malignant and conventicles of the wicked untill his mind bee enlightned And thus Saint Austin told the Donatists They could not see the Church on the hill because their eyes were blinded to wit either with ignorance or malice Saint Austin compares the Church to the Moone which waxeth and waneth is eclipsed and sometime as in the change cannot be seene yet none doubts but still there is a
saying of Ernestus Arch-bishop of Magdeburg lying on his death-bed some five yeares befoâ—e Luther shewed himselfe It is witnessed by Clement Schaâ— Chaplaine to the said Arch-bishop and one who was present at his death that a Frier Minor used this speech to the Archbishop Take a good heart most worthy Prince wee communicate to your excellencie all the good workes not onely of our selves but our whole order of Frier Minors and therefore doubt not but you receiving them shall appeare before the tribunall Seate of God righteous and blessed Whereunto the Arch-bishop replyed By no meanes will I trust upon my owne workes or yours but the workes of Christ Iesus alone shall suffice upon them will I repose my selfe THE SIXTEENTH CENTVRIE From the yeare of Grace 1500. to 1600. Of Martin Luther PAPIST WHat say you of this sixteenth Age PROTESTANT We are now by Gods assistance come to the period of time which was agreed upon in the beginning of our conference to wit to the dayes of Martin Luther for about the yeare of Grace 1517 hee beganne to teach and Preach against Indulgences And withall I have produced a Catalogue of our professours unto this present sixteenth Centurie PA. Stay your selfe you must saith Master Brerely show us your professours during the twentie yeares next before Luther PRO. It is done already for besides our English Martyrs we have produced Trithemius the Abbot and Savonarola both which lived within the time mentioned and held with us the Article of free Iustification and Savonarola howsoever the matter be otherwise coloured was burnt for Religion in the yeare 1498. Besides there have beene in all Ages and in the time mentioned such as held the substantiall Articles of our Religion both in the Roman and Greeke Church and by name the Grecians in common with us have openly denyed the Popes Supremacie Purgatorie private Masses Sacrifices for the dead and defended the lawfulnesse of Priests marriage Likewise in this Westerne part of the world the Schollers of Wickliffe called Lollards in England the Taboâ—ites in Bohemia and Waldenses in France maintained the same doctrine in substance with our moderne Protestants as appeareth by a Confession of the Waldensian Faith set forth about the yeare of Grace 1508 which was within the time prefixed Neither did these whom we have produced dissemble their Religion but made open profession thereof by their Writings Confessions and Martyrdomes as also their just Apologies are extant to cleere them from the Adversaries imputation PA. I thought Luther had beene the first founder of your Religion for there bee some of your men who call him the first Apostle of the reformed doctrine PRO. Luther broached not a new Religion he onely drained and refined it from the Lees and dregs of superstition he did not forme or found a new Church which was not in being but onely reformed and purged that which he found from the soilâ— of errours and disorders When Hilkiah the Priest in Iosiah's time found out the booke of God he was thereby a meanes to bring to light what the wicked proceedings of Manasses Amon and others had for a season smothered and so did Luther he was the instrument whom God used for the farther enlightning his Church and yet hereupon it no more followeth that he was the first that preached our Religion than upon the former that Hiâ—kiah first preached the Law The Protestants Church by Luthers meanes began no otherwise in Germanie than health begins to be in a body that was formerly sicke and overcharged and now recovered So that in respect of doctrine necessary to salvation the Church in her Firme members as Saint Austine speakes was the same before Luther and afterwards and it began to be by his meanes onely according to a greaâ—er measure of knowledge and freedome from such corruptions as formerly like ill humours oppressed it and oveâ—charged it The Proâ—estants Church then is the same with all good and sound Christians that lived before them and succeedeth the sound members of the visible Chuâ—ch that kept the life of true Religion in the substantiall matters of Faith and Godlinesse though otherwise those times were daâ—kened with a thicke mist of errours Now whereas some call Luther the first Apostle of the reformed doctrine they did not therâ—by intend that he was the fiâ—st that ever preached the dâ—ctrine of the râ—formed Churches for they could not be ignorant that after Christ and his Apostles and the Fathers of the first five Ages Bertram and Aâ—lfricke and Berenger Peter Bruis and Henry of Tholouse Dulcinus and Anâ—ldus and Lollardus Wickliffe Husse Hierome of Pragâ—e and others stood for the same truth which we professe but their meaning was that Luther was the first who in their Age and memorie publickly and succesfully set on foot a generall reformation of the Church in these Westerne parts And thus in a tollerable sense Luther may bee called the first Apostle of the Reformation though not simply the first that preached the Protestants doctrine Americus Vesputius is reported to have discovered the West Indies or America and withall beares the name thereof and yet Christopher Columbus discovered it before him Bishop Iewell saith that in Luthers dayes in the midst of the darknesse of that Age there first began to shine some glimmeâ—ing beame of truth his meaning is not that the truth was then first revealed but that by Luthers mâ—anes it was manifested in a fuller measure and degree of lâ—ght and knowledge than it was in the fâ—rmer and daâ—ker times of Poperie yea he giveth pâ—rticular instance of true professours that were before Luther namely Saint Hilarie Gregory Bernard Pauperes de Lugduno the â—ishops of Greece and Asia as also Valla Marsilius Petrarch Savonarola and others PA. Did Luther himselfe acknowledge he had any predecessors or fore-runners PRO. I answer with my worthy and learned friend Doctor Featly that Luther acknowledged the Waldenses termâ—d fratres Pigardi as appeares by his Preface before the Waldension Confession I found saith hee in these men a miracle almost unheard of in the Popish Church to wit that these men leaving the doctrines of men to the utmost of their endeavour meditated in the Law of God day and night and were very ready and skilfull in the Scriptures whereas in the Papacie the greatest Clerkes uâ—terly neglected the Scriptures I could not but congratulate both them and us that wee were together brought into one sheepfold Of Iohn Husse and Hiâ—rome of Prague he saith They burned Iohn Husse and Hierome both Catholike men they being themselves Heretikes and Apostates and in his third Preface hee saith hee hath heard from men of credit that Maximilian the Emperour was wont to say of Iohn Husse Alas alas they did that good man wrong And Erasmus Roterodam in the first bookes which hee printed lying yet by me writeth That Husse indeed was condemned and burned but not convicted PA. To
Austin saith He hath set his Tabernacle in the Sun Is not the Church then conspicuous as the Sunne PROT. You may not argue from such Allusions as are taken from the outward pompe of the world thereby to describe the inward beautie of the Church 2. Besides according to the true reading the meaâ—ing is he hath set up a seat for the Sunne in the heavens that there it might be viewed as on a scaffold now this Sunne may be eclypsed 3. Againe this was onely an Allusion which Saint Austin used against the Donatists who pinned up the Church within a corner of Afriâ—k as now the Papists confine her to Rome thereby telling them there were many Churches besides theirs to bee seene as cleare as the Sunne if the Donatists could discerne them 4. Lastly though Austin termed the Church in diebus illis in his owne time to be set as it were in the Sun yet he denies not but that afterwards in declining ages this Sunne might bee darkened and the Church make but small appearance in the time of persecution as the same Father speakes PA. The Church is as a Citie upon an hill a light upon a Candlesâ—icke and therefore conspicuous PRO. 1. This also is an Allusion which yet Saint Chrisostome understands to be meant of the Apostles that they were to looke to their carâ—iage since they were to preach abroad and had many lookeâ—s on 2. Againe though the Church be set on a hill yet as the Aramites could not discerne â—he citie of Samaria whither the Prophet led them till their eyes were opened 2 Kings chap. 6. no more can one discerne or difference the true Church from the malignant and conventicles of the wicked untill his minde be enlightned And thus Austin tolde the Donatists they could not see the Church on the hill because their eyes were blinded to wit either with ignorance or malice In a word this Hill may bee hid with a mist this Sunne obscured with a cloud and the Moone ecclipsed The blessed Apostles were no corner-creepers yet were they not seene and acknowledged for true profâ—ssors by the Scribes and Pharisees that dwelt but hard by in Iewrie Howsoever what is this to Rome if shee hold the socket and want the light if she be seated on a hill yea seven hills like Babylon PA. Will you call Rome Babylon PRO. Your owne Iesuites call Rome Babylon neither can this bee meant of Heathen Rome but of Rome Christian and as it shall bee at the end of the world for so speakes Ribâ—ra and Viegas saith After that Rome shall fall from the faith Now Heathen Rome could not fall from the faith since it never professed the faith therefore the prophecie is to bee fulfilled in Rome Papall and Christian. PA. If thy brother offend thee tell the Church then must we needs know the Church PRO. 1. Wee are bid tell the Church that is her Pastors and Governours when there is such a standing Ministery and publike discipline exercised 2. But in case Tyrants hinder the open meetings of Christians even then also in some good sort though shee bee not so outwardly visible to her foes yet may the Church take notice as the faithfull in the primative Church met together privately and observed orders for reforming of abuses being knowne one to another as friends but unknowne as such to their foes In a word one may tell the Church though for the time shee bee hid from her foes even as one may tell a message to his friend who for the time is hid from his enemie PA. Some of yours say The Church was invisible for divers ages PRO. They say not it was simply invisible but they speake respectively so that looking on those times which fell out somewhat before and after the first sixe hundred yeeres and seeing the title of Vniversall Bishop which Gregoâ—y detested as Antichristian setled on the Pope about the yeere 666 and that this number so fitly agreed to the Man of sinne as also looking downeward to the thousand yeere wherein Satan was loosed and the Turke and Pope grew great looking hereon and comparing the Church as shee was then under Hildebrand forbidding Marriage and deposing the Emperour with her selfe in the primitive ages they said shee was in manner invisible in the Westerne Horizon to wit in respect of that degree and measure of the light of the Gospell that brake forth in the time of the Reformation Besides during the time mentioned it was visible enough in the Greeke and Easterne Church and for the Westerne it had the same subsisting and beeing with the best members in the Romane Church PA. Master Napier saith Our Religion hath raigned universally and without any debatable contradiction 1260 yeeres Gods true Church most certainely abiding so long latent and invisible And Master Peâ—kins saith That for the space of many hundred yeeres an universall Apostasie overspread the whole face of the earth and that your Church was not visible to the world PRO. Master Napier saith not that your Religion raigned so universally neither doth hee speake in generall of the whole body of the Romish Faith and of the universall Antiquitie thereof which is the poynt in question but onely of the first originall of the papall dominion and Antichristian kingdome as hee calleth it as Bishop Morton hath well observed neither yet was this papall Hierarchie or as Master Perkins calls it popish Heresie of being intituled Vniversall Bishop of the Church carried without the opposition of severall Councells and Worthies in Gods Church as God willing hereafter shall appeare For the place cited out of Master Perkins it is as we in our common phrase of speech use to say That all the world is set on mischiefe because so many delight in wickednesse Neither is this manner of speech unusuall in the Scriptures From the Prophet to the Priest all deale falsely saith Ieâ—emy 6.13 and Saint Paul saith All secke their owne and not that which is Iesus Christs Phil. 2.21 bâ—sides hee saith Iâ— had overspread the face of the earth Now a large fiâ—ld may be over-spread with Tares and weedes and yet some good corne in the field Neither saith Master Perkins that our Church was simply invisible but that it was not visible to the world and withall he tels us where it was It lay hid saith he vnder the chasse of Poperie Now the graine is not utâ—erly invisible whiles it is mingled with chaâ—se in the same heape PA. Was not the Church ever gloriously visible PRO. It was not for as S. Austin saith it was sometimes onely in Abel and he was slaine by his brother in Enoch and hee was translated from the ungodly it was in the sole house of Abraham Noah and Lot Afterwards how was it so notably conspicuous when as both Israel and Iudah fell to Idolatry in the times of Achaz and Manasse
Moone The Church sometimes shines in the cleare dayes of peace and is by and by over-cast with a cloud of persecution as the same Austin saith The Moone is not alwayes in the Full nor the Church ever in her glorious aspect PA. If your Church were alwayes visible where then was it before Luthers time PRO. I might also aske you Where was a great part of your Religion before the Trent Councell which was but holden about the yeere 1534. Now for our Religion it was for substance and in the affirmative parts and positive grounds thereof the question being not of every accessory and secondary poynt it was I say contained in the Canonicall Scriptures wheras you are driven to seeke yours in the Apocryphall in the Trent Creed the Trent Councell Now ours it was contained in the Apostles Creed explayned in the Nicene and Athanasian confirmed by the first foure generall Councels taught in the undoubted writings of the true ancient and orthodox Fathers of the primative Church justiâ—ied from the tongue and penne of our adversaries witnessed by the confessions of our Martyrs which have suffered for truth and not for treason This is the Evidence of our Religion whereas for proofe of yours in divers poynts you are driven to flie to the bastard Treatises of false Fathers going under the name of Abdias Linus Clemens S. Denys and the like as sometime Perkin Warbek a base fellow feigned himselfe to be King Edward the fourths sonne and for a time went under his name and yet these Knights of the poste must be brought in to depose on your behalfe though others of your side have cashiered them as counterfeits PA. If your Professors were so visible name them PRO. This is no reasonable demaund you have rased our Records conveied our Evidence clapt up our Witnesses and suborned your owne you have for your owne advantage as is already showen by that learned Antiquary of Oxford D. Iames and others and shall God willing appeare in the Centuries following you have I say corrupted Councells Fathers and Scriptures by purging and prohibiting what Authors and in what places you would and now you call us to a tryall of Names PA. Particular men may mis-coat the Fathers but our Church hath not PRO. You have witnesse your expurgatory and prohibitory Indices or Tables whereof since my selfe have of late bin an eye-witnesse and seene divers of them both in the publike and private Libraries in Oxford I will therefore acquaint the Reader with the mysterie thereof When that politike Councel of Trent perceived that howsoever men might bee silenced yet bookes would be blabs and tell truth they devised this course They directed a Commission to a company of Inquisitors residing in severall places and therby gave them power to purge and prohibit all manner of Bookes Humanitie and Divinitie ancient late in such sort as they should think fit Vpon this CoÌ„mission renued as occasion served the Inquisitors set forth their severall expurgatory and prohibitory Indices printed at Rome in Spaine in the Low-countries and elsewhere and in these Tables yet to be seen they set down what books were by theÌ„ forbidden and which to be purged and in what places ought were to bee left out whensoever the Workes should be printed anew for according to their Tables or Corrections books were to be printed afresh Now to make sure worke they got as many of the former Editions of the Fathers workes as they could into their hands and suffered no new Copie to come foorth but through their fingers purged according to their Receit neither feared they that their adversaries would set foorth the large volumes of the Fathers Workes or others having not the meanes to vent their Impressions being forbidden to be sold in Catholike countries By this meanes the Romane Censurers thought to stop all tongues and pennes that none should hereafter speake or write otherwise than the Trent Councell had dictatedâ— and so in time all Evidence should have made for the Romane cause Hereby the Reader may perceive that had their device gone on they would in time by their chopping and changing the writings of the Ancient at their pleasure have rased and defaced whatsoever Evidence had made for us and against themselves But so it pleased God that howsoever they had carried the matter cunningly in secret yet at length all comes out their plot was discovered and their Indices came into the Protestants hands The Index of Antwerpe was discovered by Iunius the Spanish and Portugall was never knowne till the taking of Cales and then it was found by the English PA. Might wee not purge what was naught PRO. Indeed if you had purged or prohibited the lewd writings of wanton Aretine railing Rablais or the like you had done well but under-hand to goe and purge out the wholesome sentences of the Fathers such as were agreeable to the Scriptures thus to purge those good old men till you wrung the very blood and life out of them bewrayeth that you have an ill cause in hand that betakes it selfe to such desperate shifts Neither can you justly say that you have corrected what others marred for it was your side that first kept a tampering with the Fathers Works and corrupted them Francis Iunius reports that hee comming in the yeare 1559 to a familiar friend of his named Lewis Savarius Corrector of a Print at Lâ—yden found him over-looking Saint Ambrose Workes wâ—ich Frâ—llonius was printing whereof when Iunius commended the elegancie of the Letter and Edition the Corrector told him secretly it was of all Editions the worst and drawing out many sheets of now waste paper from under the table told him they had printed those sheetes according to the ancient and authenticke Copies but two Franciscan Fryers had by their authoritie cancelled and rejected them and caused other to bee printed and put in their roomes differing from the truth of all their owne books to the great losse of the Printer and wonder of the Corrector so that had yoâ— prevailed neither olde nor new Greeke nor Latin Fathers nor later Writers had been suffered to speake the truth but eiâ—her like Parraâ—s been taâ—ght to lispe Popery or for ever beeâ— put to silâ—nce The best is the Manuscripts which by Gods providence are still preserved amongst us they mâ—ke for us as D. Iames excellently vers'd in Antiquitie hath showen at large PA. Have â—ee purged ought in the Fathers or Scriptures that was not to bee purged PRO. You have as appeares by these instances following St. Chrysostome in his third Sermon uâ—on Lazarus and elsewhere maintaineth thâ— peâ—spicuitie and plainnesse of the Scripâ—ures saying That in divine Scriptures all necessary things are plaine Hee likewise holdeth that faith onely sufficeth in stead of all saying This one thing I will affirme That faith onely by it seâ—fe saâ—eth In like sort Saint Hierome holds That faith only justifieth that workes doe not justifie that
affection as the Scriptures are to be reverenced Is not this to minglâ— water with wine base mettall with good Bullion and so indeed a corrupting of Scripture Besides you have which is fearefull detracted from Gods Word thaâ— which was written with his owne finger to wit the second Commandement against the worship of Images and because the words thereof are sharpe and rip up the heart-strings of your Idolatrie you have therefore omitted them in your Catechismes Prayer bookes and in your Office of the blessed Virgin set foorth by commaund of Pius Quintus and to salve up the matter lest thereby wee should have no more then nine Commaundements you have cut the tenth into two You might well have left the words â—here that Gods people might know there was such a Commandement howsoever they had counted it the first or the second Now as you have detracted so you have added to the rule of Faith by thrusting into the Canon the Apocryphall bookes which Hierome the best languaged of all the Father rejected Lastly you doe not only allow but impose on others a corrupt translation of Scripture to wit the vulgar Latine Edition whereas wee referre our selves to the Originals Now surely wee may better trust an originall Record than a Copie extracted thence and it is more wholesome to drinke at the well-head than at a corrupt and muddie streame Now the Latine Edition which you follow and preferre before all others it is but a Translation it selfe but the Hebrew and Greeke which wee follow are the Well-springs and Originalls Is not this now a manifest corrupting of Scripture to bind all men as your Trent Councell doth that none dare presume to reject this Translation which by your owne men is confessed not to be Saint Hierâ—mes and already showne to be a corrupt one by the learned of our side PA. I looke to have your Professors named PRO. Restore us entire our Evidence which you have marred and made away returne us our Witnesses which you have chained up in your Vatican Library and elsewhere and wee accept your challenge But doe you indeed looke to have our professors named and why so the true Church of God may bee visible though the names of her visible professors from time to time can not be shewed there might be thousands of professors in former ages and yet happily no particular authentick Record of their names now extant or if extant yet so as we cannot come by them Neverthelesse to answere you at your owne weapon I hope to make it cleare that God hath dealt so graciously with his Church as that he hath continually preserved sufficient testimonies of his truth that are ready to be deposed on our side and that successively from age to age so that I may say as Saint Ambrose did in the like case You may well blot out our Letters but our Faith you shall never abolish Papists may conceale our evidence and wipe out the names of our Professors out of the Records but when all is done the Protestants faith is perpetuall Now in that we yeeld thus farre to their importunitie we doe not this as if it were simply necessary for the Demonstration of our Church to produce such a Catalogue of visible Professors in all Ages but onely out of the confidence of the truth of our cause and partly to stop the mouth of our clamorous adveâ—saries For it is Tertullians Rule that A Church is to bee accounted Apostolike if it hold Consanguinitie of Doctrine with the Apostles Now what though we could noâ— successively name such as taught as we doe yet because God hath promised there should be alwaies in the world a true Church having either a larger or smaller number of Prosessors it sufficeth that we are able out of Scripture to demonstrate that we maintaine the same Faith and Religion which the holy Apostles taught and Christ would have to be perpetuall this I say sufficeth to manifest our Succession although all Histories were silent of the names of our Professors Now that I am to speake of the Church in her severall and successive Centuries and Ages to give the Reader some Character and touch thereof I will beginne with the fiâ—st 600. yeares next after Christ wherein ten severall times during the fiâ—st three Centuries the Church was persecuted by Tyrants and almost continually assaulted by Heretikes yet in the end Truth prevailed against Error and Patience overcame her Persâ—cutors This is the time wherein our learned Bishop Iewell challenged the Papists to shew any Orthodoxe Father Councell or Doctor that for the space of those 600 Yeares taught as the present Church of Rome did the like challenge was lately renued by my deare friend that worthy Divine Doctor Featly of Oxford challenging the Iesuits to produce out of good Authors any Citie Parish or Hamlet within 500. yeares next after Christ wherein there was any visible assembly that maintained in generall the Articles of the Trent Councell or such and such points of Popery as at the Conference hee named in particular Now of this period the first 300. yeares thereof were the very flower of the Primitive Church because that in theâ—e dayes the truth of the Gospell was infallibly taught by Christ and his Apostles and that in their owne persons as also by otheâ—s that lived to heare see and converse with those blessed Apostles and disciples of Christ Iesus and this haply made Egesippus an ancient Authour call the Church of those dayes an uncorrupt and virgin Church and yet was this virgin Church ill intreated by such a sowed the tares of errour which yet the carefull husbandman in time weeded up neither indeed for the space of these first 300 could those Tenets of Poperie get any footing their Papall Indulgences were yet unhatched their purgatory fire was yet unkindled it made not as afterwards their pot boyle and their kitchin smoake the Masse was yet unmoulded Transubstantiation was yet unbaked the treasury of Merits was yet unminted the Popes transcendent power was uncreated Ecclesiastickes were unexempted and deposing of Kings yet undreamed of the Lay-people were not yet couzned of the cup Communion under one kinde was not yet in kinde it was not then knowne that Liturgies and prayers were usually and publikely made in a tongue unknowne they did not then worship and adore any wooden or breaden god they worshipt that which they knew and that in Spirit and truth and they called on him in whom they beleeved so did they and so doe wee In a word in the former ages of the Church Satan was bound after the thousandth yeare hee was loosed and after the middle of the second Millenary about the yeare 1370 hee was bound anew Concerning the Churches estate in the next five hundred yeares it grew very corrupt so that of these times we may say as Winefridus borne at Kirton in Devonshire after surnamed Boniface was
Timothie was it holds in others also for if the Scripture be so profitable for such and such uâ—eâ— that thereby it perfects a Divine much more an ordinary Christian that which can peâ—fit the teacher is sufficient for the learner PA. Doe you disclaime all Traditions PRO. We acknowledge Traditions concerning Discipline and the Rites and Ceremonies of the Church but not concerning the doctrine or matter of faith Religion You equalize unwritten traditions to holy Scripture receiving them saith your Trent Councell with equall reverence and religious affection as you receive the holy Scriptures themselves we daâ—e not doe so but such traditions as we râ—ceive we hold and esteeme farre inferiour Concerning the Scriptuâ—e Canon the Trent Councell accurseth such as receive not the Bookes of Machabees Ecclesiasticus â—oby Iudith Baruch Wisdome for Canonical Scriptuâ—e Now wee retaine the same Canon which Christ and his Apostles held and received from the Iewes unto whom were committed the Oracles of God being as Saint Augustine speakes The Christians Library-keepers Now the Iewes never received these Bookes which wee terme Apocryphall into their Canon yea Christ himselfe divided the Canon into three severall rankes iâ—to the Law the Prophets and the Psalmes now the Apocryphal come not within this reckoning Indeed as S. Hierome saith The Church reades these Bookes for example of life and instruction of manners but yet it doth not apply them to stablish any Doctrine Of Comunion under both kindes and the number of Sacraments If any shall say The Church was not induced for just causes to communâ—caâ—e the â—ay people under one kinde vâ—z of bread onely and shall say they â—rred in so doing let him bee accursed saith the Trent Councell Now our Chuâ—ch holds That both the parts of the Lords Sacrament ought to bâ—e ministred to all Gods people so thaâ— according to us In the publâ—kâ— celebraâ—ion of â—he Eâ—chaâ—ist Communion in boâ—h kinds ouâ—ht to bee given to all sorts of Câ—riâ—â—ians righâ—ly disposed and prepared and this oâ—â— Tenet is agâ—eâ—able to Christes Institution and Precept who saith exprâ—sly and liâ—erally Drink yee all of this It agrees aâ—so with Saint Pauls precept and with the practice of the holy Apostleâ— and the priâ—ative Church Dionysius Arcopagita who as you say was Saint Pauls Scholler and Disciple relates the practice of the Church in his time on this manner After the Priest hath prayed that hee may hoâ—â—ly distribute and that all they that are to partake of the Sacrament may receiue it worthyly he breakes the Bread into many pieces and divides one Cup among all Ignatius who was Scholler to Saint Iohn the Evangelist saith That one Bread is broken unto all and one Cup destributed unto all PA. Bellarmine saith the words of Ignatius are not as you alleage them There is one Cup distributed unto all but there is one Cup of the whole Church and though the Greeke Copies reade as you doe yet he saith That much credit is not to be given to them PROT. Shall we give more credit to a Translâ—tion then to the Originall If the Well-head and Spring bee corâ—upted how shall the Brooke or Streame runne cleare It may be indeed that divers errors are crept both into the Greeke Latine Copies but for the place alleagâ—d there is no colour of corruption in asmuch as the same that Ignatius spake of the Bread the same are repeated of the Cup according to Christs Institution and howsoever Bellarmine may produce some Latine Copie that translateth the words of Ignatius as Bellarmine sets them downe Vnus Calix totius Ecclesiae yet as D. Featly observes in the Grand Sacriledge of the Romish Church Vitlemius and divers other Latin Copies following the originall verbatim render them thus Vnus Calix omnibus distributus that is One Cup distributed unto all and not as Bellarmine and Baronius ad Ann. 109 sect 25. would have it as if Ignatius had said that one Cup was distributed not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 omnibus but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pro omnibus not to all but for all that is for the behoofe and benefit of all Howsoever they wrest it Ignatius tels us of one Cup and this not the Priests Cup but the Churches Cup and this Cup was distributed But now adaies in the Masse there is no distribution of the Cup. PA. Christ spake these words Drinke yee all of this only to the Apostles as they were Priests and not to the Laitie PRO. By this meanes you might take away the Bread as well as the Cup from the Lay-people for when Christ administred the Sacrament none were present for ought we know but onely the Apostles Besides the Apostles were not yet fully ordained Priests though they had beene once sent to Preach Christ after his Resurrection breathed on them the holy Ghost and fully endued them with Priestly power Iohn 20.22 Againe the Apostles at this Supper were Communicants not Ministers of the Sacrament Christ was then the onely Minister in that Action Now Christ delivered them the Cup as well as the Bread saying to the same persons at the same time and in the same respect Drinke yee all of this to whom hee had said before Take and Eate giving both alike in charge so that you must either barre the people from both or admit them to both now if neither precept of eating or drinking belong to the Laitie the Laitie are not at all bound to receive the Sacrament PA. Although it be said of Drinking the Cup Doe this in remembrance of me Yet the Words Doe this are spoken Absolutely of the Bread and but Conditionally of the Cup namely as often as yee shall drinke it 1 Cor. 11.25 So that these Words Doe this in remembrance of me inferre not any Commandement of receiving in both kindes PRO. According to your Tenet our Saviour saith not Doe this as often as you Lay men communicate but whensoever you receive the Cup and drinke then doe it in remembrance of me as much as to say as often as you Lay people drinke which needeth never be done by you according to Romish Divinitie Doe this nothing in remembrance of mee Besides as there is a Quotiescunque as often set before the Cup As oft as you drinke so there is a Quotiescunque set before the Bread As often as you shall eate this Bread vers 26. so that quotiâ—scunque biberitis as often as you Drinke cannot make the Precept Conditionall in respect of the Cup more than of the Bread it being alike referred to the Bread and to the Cup. PA. We wrong not the Laitie ministring unto them under one kinde onely they receiving the same benefit by one that they should doe by both Christs body and bloud being whole in each so that the people receive the bloud together with the Host by a Concomitancy PRO. In vaine have you devised Concomitance to
governement ought not to gad and wander but they should pleade their cause there where both Accusers and Witnesses may bee had except some few desperate and naughty fellowes thinke the authority of the Bishops of Africke which have already judged and condemned them to be lâ—sse meaning lesse than that of Cornelius to whom they fled Here wee finde opposition made to the Sea of Rome by that Catholike Martyr Cyprian and others even in the weighty poynt of Appeales for so Bellarmine makes appealing to Rome and not appealing from thence a mainâ— proofe of the Popes Supremacie Now to close up this age and to looke a little homeward all this time the Christian Religion flourished quietly in Britaine till in Dioclesians dayes which made vp the tenth persecution their Churches were demolished their Bibles burnt their Priests and their flocke murthered for now was Saint Alban beheaded at the City Verulam now called after him Saint Albanes of whom Fortunatus Presbyter an ancient Poet sayth Albanum egregium foecunda Britannia profâ—rt Fruitfull Britaine bringeth forth Alban a Martyr of great worth Hee was the first that in Britaine suffered death for Christ his sake whereupon he is called our Stephen and the Proto-martyr of Britaine In like sort his Teacher or Instructer Amphibalus was cruelly Martyred at the same place being whipped about a stake whereat his entrailes were tyed and thus winding his bowels out of his body was at last stoned to death so also was Iulius and Aaron Martyred at Leicester and in Lichfield so many that the place became another Colgatha or field of dead corps for which cause the City doth beare a field charged with many Martyrs diversly tortured they beare it for their Seale of Armes even unto this day as Master Camden hath recorded Now these Martyrs they suffered for that truth which we at this day hold and not for Popish Tenets which then were not in being We have now Surveyed the Fathers Faith and practice of the Church for the first three hundred yeares next after Christ and by this particular as Hercules whole body was measured by the breadth of his foote the Reader may proportion what were the Churches Creed and her Agends generally and constantly taught and practised in these times and I doubt not but he shall find that for substance of Religion they held as wee doe and not as the moderne Papists doe so that in comparison of Originall and Primitive Antiquity Poperie is but noveltie and this hath beene already shewne when as we drew the Character of the three first Centuries I will now onely give instance in the point of Indulgences and shew that in these best and ancient times there were no such Popes pardons as afterwards were marted For in latter times we find it recorded in the Salisbury Primer that Iohn the two and twentieth for the mumbling over of some short Prayers granted a Pardon of no lesse than a million of yeares Besides these three Prayers be written in the Chappel of the holy Crosse in Rome who that devoutly say them they shall obtaine ten hundred thousand yeares of Pardon for deadly sinne granted by our Holy Father Iohn the two and twentieth Pope of Rome and of another Prayer to be said as one goes thorow a Church-yard the same booke saith as followeth Pope Iohn the twelfth granted to all that shal say the Prayer following as they passe by any Church-yard as many yeeres of Indulgences as there have beene bodyes there buried since the Consecration of the said Church-yard In the same booke there is power given to one little prayer beginning with O bone Iesu to change the paines of Hell into Purgatory and after that againe the paines of Purgatory into the joyes of Heaven This Prayer is written in a Table that hanged at Rome in Saint Peters Church neere to the high Altar there as our holy Father the Pope is wont to say Masse and who so that devoutly with a contrite heart daily say this Orizon if he bee that day in the state of eternall damnation then his eternall paine shall be changed him into temporall paine of Purgatorie and if he have deserved the paine of Purgatorie it shall bee forgotten and forgiven through the infinite mercie of God Now sure I thinke that Antiquitie cannot paralell such presidents as these THE FOVRTH CENTVRIE From the yeare of Grace 400. to 500. PAPIST WHat say you to this fourth Age PROTESTANT This was a learned Age for now there lived Optatus Bishop of Milevis in Africa and in Asia there lived Epiphanius Bishop of Cyprus Cyril Bishop of Hierusalem Macharius the Monke Basil the great the Christian Demosthenes as Erasmus calls him Gregory Nazianzene sirnamed the Divine and Grigory Nyssen brother to Saint Basil these three were equall in time deare friends and of neere alliance now also lived the Hammer of the Arrian Heretickes Athanasius the great Bishop of Alexandria great indeed for his learning for his vertue for his labour for his suffering when almost the whole world was set against him but above all great for his Creed the Athanasian Creed He suffered much trouble for the truth but God upheld him so that he dyed in peace full of dayes after he had governed the Church of Alâ—xandria six and forty yeares Nazianzene compared him in time of adversity to the Adamant for that no trouble could breake him and in time of prosperity to the Load-stone for that hee allured the hearts of men more intractable then Iron to imbrace the Truth of God In Europe there lived Hilarie Bishop of Poictiers in France and Ambrose Bishop or Millaine Ambrose was a man of noble parentage under the Emperour Valentinian hee was Governour of Liguria he was chosen from a secular â—udge to bee Bishop of Millaine and was faine to be christened before he could be consecrated he was zealous and resolute hee sharpely reproved Theodosius for the slâ—ughtâ—r of the innocent people of Thessalonica hee was grievously troubled by the Lady Iustina mother to Valentinian the second he said to his friends that were about him at his death I have not so lived that I am ashamed to live longer nor yet feare I death because I have a good Lord. Of the Scriptures sufficiencie Athanasius saith the holy Scriptures given by inspiration of God are of themselves sufficient to the discoverie of truth now if they be as the word signifieth allsufâ—icient to instruction then must they needs be all sufficient to all instruction in the truth intended and not onely sufficient for this or that point as Bellarmine would have it Saint Hilarie commendeth the Emperour Constantius for desiring the Faith to be ordered onely according to those things that be written thâ— same Hilarie assures us that in his dayes the word of God did suffice the beleevers yea what is there saith he concerning mans salvation that is not conteined in the word
say the word of Christ is most efficacious to alter the propertie of naturall water and to give regenerating force and vertue to it Saint Ambrose saith that in Baptisme man is changed and made a new creature Learne saith he how the word of Christ is accustomed to change every creature and when he will he altereth the course of nature Saint Cyril saith the waters are changed into a divine nature And Gregorie Nazianzene saith that by Baptisme we put on Christ by Baptisme we are changed or transmuted into Christ. Now from hence we cannot infeâ—re that eiâ—her the water of Baptisme or regenerate persons are changed by Transubstantiation the change is not corporall in either of the Sacraments but mysticall in use and signification In the Church saith Macarius Scholler to Saint Anthonie bread and wine is offered the type of his flesh and bloud and they which are partakers of the visible bread doe Spiritually eate the flesh of the Lord. Now according to this Father bread and wine are taken bread and wine are offered and these be the types or tokens of the body and bloud and that they be so called after Consecration is likewise acknowledged by Bellarmine And we may farther observe that the words of Macarius are so cleere for the spirituall and not corporall receiving as that some were faigne to set a Marginall glosse upon Macarius his text Of Image-worship The Councel of Elliberis in Granado in Spayne decreed That no Pictures should or ought to be in the Church lest that which is worshipped or adored should be painted on walls Now it will not serve to say that the Councel onely forbad the painting of Images on Church-walls where in time of persecution or otherwise they might be defaced as if they might be set or hung in tables for the Councels decree runs generally saying It is our mind that Pictures ought not to be in the Church Now if it forbad the very being of them in Churches then surely it utterly condemned their adoration Melchior Canus chargeth this ancient Councel with impietie for making such a decree de tollendis Imaginibus Saint Ambrose saith God would not have himselfe worshipped in stones the Church knoweth no vaine Idaea's and divers figures of Images but knoweth the true substance of the Trinity The fact of Epiphanius which himselfe records in his Epistle to Iohn Bishop of Hierusalem translated by Saint Hierome out of Greek into Latine is very famous in this case namely how himselfe found a Picture in the Church of the village of Anablatha which though it were out of his owne Diocesse yet in an hoâ—y zeale he tore it and wrote to the Bishop of the place beseeching him that no such Pictures might bee hanged up as being contrary to Religion The words of Epiphanius are these I found there a vayle hanging at the doore of the Church dyed and painted and having the Image as it were of Christ or some Saint for I doe not well remember whose Image it was when therefore I saw this that contrary to the authority of the Scriptures the Image of a man was hanged up in the Church of Christ I cut it and gave counsel to the keepers of the place that they should rather wrap and burie some poore dead man in it and afterward hee intreateth the Bishop of Hierusalem under whose governement this Church was to give charge hereafter that such vayles as those which are repugnant to our Religion should not be hanged up in the Church of Christ. I know indeed that Iesuit Fisher would shuffle off this evidence by saying that it was the picture of some prophane Pagan bâ—t Epiphanius himselfe saith it had imaginem quasi Christi vel Sancti cujusdam the image as it were of Christ or of some Saint surely therefore the Image went for Christs or for some noted Saints neither doâ—h he finde fault with the irresemblance but with the Image as such Baronius saith they are rather the forged words of some Image-breakers than of Epiphanius Bellarmine would disproove them by sundry conjectures which Master Rivet rejects and defeâ—dâ— the foresayd Epistle of Epiphanius clearing it from all the Cardinal 's cavills aâ—d surely if we observe Epiphanius his practice about the foresayd Image and his Doctrine of Mariam nemo adoret we may well thinke these two had both one Father PA. The Idolatry forbidden in Scripture and disliked by the Fathers is such as was used by Iewes and Pagans and this wee Christians practise not PRO. Indeed the Apostle when hee disswadeth Christians from Idolatry propounds the Iewes fall saying Neither be yee Idolaters as some of them were 1 Cor. 10. 7 8. The like also hee addeth touching another sinne Neither let us commit fornication as some of them did as well then might one pleade that Iewish or Heathenish fornication were onely reprehended as Iewish or Heathenish Idolatry it being a foule sinne whether it bee committed by Iewe Pagan or Christian and more haynous in the Christian who professeth Christ to practise that which Gods word condemneth in the Iewes and Pagans for Idolatry PA. The Heathen held the Images themselves to be Gods which is farre from our thought PRO. Admit some of the simpler sort of the Heathen did so what shall wee say of the Iewish Idolaters who erected the Golden calfe in the wildernesse can wee thinke that they were all so sencelesse as to imagine that the calfe which they knew was not at all in rerum naturâ and had no being at that time when they came out of Aegypt should yet be that God which brought them out of Aegypt Exod. 32.4 And for the Heathen people though they haply thought some divine Majestie and power was seated in the Images yet they were scarcely so rude as to thinke the Images which they adored to be very God for thus we find them usually to answer in the writings of the Fathers Wee worship the Gods by the Images and I neither worship the Image nor a Spirit in it but by the bodily portraiture I doe behold the signe of that thing which I ought to worship PAP Though the Heathen did not account the Image it selfe to be God yet were those Images set up to represent either things that had no being or Devils or false-Gods and in that respect were Idols whereas we erect Images onely to the honour of the true God and of his servants the Saints and Angels PRO. Suppose that many of the Idolatrous Iewes and Heathens Images were such as you say they were yet they were not all of them such howsoever Idolatry is committed by yielding adoration to an Image of the true God himselfe as appeareth by the first Chapter of the Epistle to the Romanes where the Apostle having said that God shewed unto them that which might bee knowne of him and that the Invisible things of him that is his
it is a straine of rhetoricke why not the other also Sixtus Senensis gives a good rule for interpretation of the Fathers speeches specially in this argument The sayings of Preachers are not to be urged in that rigour of their words for after the manner of Oratours they use to speake many times hyperbolically and in excesse And hee instanceth in Chrysostome as well hee might for hee is full of them even there where hee speakes of the Sacraments hee saith That our teeth are fixed in the flesh of Christ that our tongues are dyed red with his bloud and againe That it is not the Minister but God that baptizeth thee and holdeth thy head Now these and the like sayings must be favourably construed as being improper speeches rhetoricall straines purposely uttered to move affections stirre up devotion and bring the Sacrament out of contempt that so the Communicanâ—s eyes may not bee finally fixed on the outward elements of bread and wine being in themselves but transitory and corruptible creatures but to have their hearts elevated and lift up by faith to behold the very body of Christ which is represented in these mysteries Otherwise the Fathers come downe to a lower key when they come to speake to the point yea or no and accordingly Saint Chrysostome when once he is out of his Rhetoricall veine and speaks positively and doctrinally sayth When our Lord gave the Sacrament hee gave wine and againe Doe wee not offer every day Wee offer indeed but by keeping a memory of his deaâ—h and hee puts in a kind of caution or correction lest any should mistake him Wee offer saith hee the same Sacrifice or rather the remembrance thereof And such a Commemorative and Eucharisticall sacrifice we acknowledge Object Saint Cyril of Alexandria useth the word corporally saying that by the mysticall benediction the Sonne of God is united to us corporally as man and spiritually as God Answer Hereby is meant a full perfect spirituall conjunction with the sanctified Communicants excluding all manner of Imagination or fantasie and not a grosse and fleshly being of Christ's body in our bodyes according to the appearance of the letter otherwise this inconvenience would follow that our bodies must be in like manner corporally in Christ's body for Cyril as hee saith Châ—ist is corporally in us so he saith weare corporally in Christ by corporally then he meaneth that neere and indissoluble union in the same sence that the Apostle useth it saying In him dwelâ—eth all the fulnesse of the Godhead bodily Coll. 2.9 bodâ—ly that is indissolubly Bâ—sides Christ is likewise joyned corporally to us by the Sacrament of Baptisme and yet therein there is no Transubstantiation Of Image-worship Saint Hierome saith We worship one Image which is the Image of the invisible and omnipotent God Saint Austine saith No Image of God ought to be worshipped but that which is the same thing that he is meaning Christ Iesus Col. 1.15 Hebr. 1.3 nor yet that for him but with him And as for the representing of God in the similitude of a man he resolveth that it is Vtterly unlawfull to erect any such Image to God in a Christian Church He condemneth the use of Images even when they are not adored for themselves but made instruments to worship God saying Thus have they deserved to erre which sought Christ and his Apostles in painted Images and not in written bookes The same Austine writing of the manners of the Catholike Church directly severeth the case of some men who were wont to kneele superstitiously in Churh yards before the tombes of Martyrs and the painted histories of their sufferings these private mens cases he severeth from the common cause and approved practice of the Catholike Church saying Doe not bring in the company of rude mâ—n which in the true religion it selfe are superstitious I know many that are worshippers of Graves and pictures Now this I advise that you cease to speake evill of the Catholike Church by upbraiding it with the manners of those men whom she her selfe condemneth and seeketh every day to correct as naughtie children so that in Saint Austines times as is already noâ—ed Images and Image-worship were not used by any generall warranted practice if some mis-informed men used it this could not in Saint Austines opinion make it a Church duty necessary and Catholike or draw it to bee a generall custome Bellarmine answereth that Saint Austine wrote this in the beginning of his Conversion to Christianitie and that upon better information he changed his mind but he tells us not in what part of his Retractations this is to be found Divers other shifts besides are used herein and some fly to the distinction of an Idoll and an Image but that will not seâ—ve for the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is often translated Simulachrum a likenesse or similiâ—â—de and as eveâ—y Idoll is an Image of some thing so every Image worshipped turnes Idoll there may be some ods in the language but none in the thing it selfe Bellarmine minceth the matter and would have the Image worshipped not propeâ—ly and because of it selfe but reductively inasmuch as it doth expresse the Sampler Others hold that the Image is to bee worshipped in it selfe and with the sâ—mâ— woâ—ship that the person is which is represented so that the Crucifixe is to be reverenced with the selfe same honâ—ur that Christ Iesus is And as for the vulgar people they goe bluntly to it with downâ—right adoration Cassander saith It is more manifest than that it can bee denyed that the worship of Images and Idols hath too much prevailed and the supâ—rstitious humour of people hath beene so cockeredâ— that nothing hath beene omitted among us either of the highest adoration and vanity of Painims in worshipping and adoring Images Polydore also saith People are growne to such madnesse that there are many rude and stupid persons which adore Images of wood stone marble and brasse or paintâ—d in windowes not as signes but as though they had sense and they repose more trust in them than in Christ or the Saints to which they are dedicated Ludovicus Vives saith Saiâ—ts are esteemed and worshipped by many as were the Gods among the Gentiles Objection The honour or dishonour done to the Image redoundeth to the person represented or pâ—ototype as appeares by our being uncovered using reverence in the Kings Chamber of presence and before his Chaire of estate when his person is absent in like sort the honour and worship due to the Image redoundeth to Christ and his Saints now if an Image bee capable of contempt and reproach it is also capable of honour and worship Answer The Rule The dishonour done to the Image redoundeth to the person is true specially in civill affaires when the Party would be honoured by the Image and thus was Theodosius grieved with them of Antioch for casting downe his
then that you doe what reward can you looke for if God doe all and these and such like Pelagian speeches of some Monkes occasioned him to write his treatise of Grace and free will wherein he denying such freewill as many Popish schoolemen teach ascribes the whole originall power of good in the consent of the will unto grace saying That the good which we doe is not partly Gods but it is to be ascribed wholly unto God He disclaimed humane satisfactions saying Who will murmure and say we labour too much fast too much since we are unable to dâ—scharge the thousandth nay not the least part of our debts He held that man was unable to keepe the Law in perfection according to Gods Commandements Neither saith he was the commander ignorant that the weight of the Commandement exceeded mans strength but he judged it to be profitable thereby to put them in mind of their owne insufficiencie so that God by commanding things impossible to us did not thereby make man a transgressour but humbled him to the intent that we receiving the Law and feeling our owne wants might call to heaven and the Lord might helpe us And to the same purpose he elsewhere saith God hath therefore commanded his precepts to be observed exceedingly or to the full that we beholding our imperfection and falling short and finding that we are unable to fulfill that which we ought may fly to his mercy He held certainety of Salvation saying that a just man by the testimonie of the Holy Spirit within him may be assured of grace Bernard likewise held that our workes doe not merit condignely and herein he is most direct and punctuall against all Popish merit-mongers Dangerous saith he is the dwelling of them that trust in their owne merits dangerous bâ—causâ— ruinous And This is the whole merit of man if he put all his trust in him who saveth the whole man Againe the merits of men are not such saith he as that eternall life is due to them of right or as if â—od should doe wrong if he did not yeeld the same unto them and he giveth a reason hereof because all merits are Gods gifts and so man is rather a debter to God for them than God to men for what are all merits to so â—reat a glory Indeed he elsewhere telleth us of his merits but they be Christs and these we doe willingly embrace with Saint Bernard and apply them to our selves his words are these Therefore my merit is the mercy of the Lord I am not poore in merit so long as he is not poore in mercie and if the mercies of the Lord be many my merits also are many otherwise S. Bernard renounced al confidence of his owne merit reposing his soule on that imputative Iustice which is without man even the merit of Christ as in that al-sufficient satisfaction saying I am not worthy I confesse neither can I by my owne merits obtaine the kingdome of heaven but rest upon that interest which I have in the merits of Christs passion Now what could be spoken more Protestant-like and yet thus spake Bernard of himselfe And in this sweete meditation the devout Father closed his life as the reporter thereof hath left recorded Now besides these Articles already mentioned which are weighty ones Bernard was no universall Tâ—ent Papist neither held he divers points which your Trent Counsell hath established for foundamentall and namely the doctrine of Transubstantiation of which he is altogether silent even there where he was likeliest to treate of it if he had then knowne it for Catholike doctrine yea he there delivereth that which makes against it He taught also that the Eucharist was a commemorative sacrifice onely insomuch as alleadging those words Do this in remembrance of me he menâ—ioneth no reall sacrifice of â—hrists body and blood such as is made in the Masse but a thankefull remembrance of his death and passion Indeed S. Bâ—rnard in that Sermon of the Lords Supper if it be his for Bellarmie saith it is nothing like S. Bernards sâ—ile speakes of the Priests holding his God and reaching him forth to others as also of touching God with their hand with their mouth and hearing him speake unto them Now as the Priest heareth Christ speake unto him so he holdeth Châ—ist in his hand but the Priest heareth not Christ speake verily and indeed but in a certaine peculiar manner and forme of speech therefore he holds not Christ in his hand really and indeed but after a sort for a straine of Rhetoricall amamplification he is sayd to hold God that holdeth any thing specially pertaining to God Besides hee held the sufficiencie of the Scriptures without Traditions for writing unto a Covent of Abbots he requireth such a Councell wherein the traditions of men are not obstinately defended but which doth diligently and humbly enquire what is the good and perfect will of God and elsewhere hee saith that the Word of God is all in all He held habituall Concupiscence to be a sinne saying That kinde of sin which so often troubles us I meane our concupiscence and evill desires ought indeed to be repressed Besides he never taught adoration of Images hee held not the precise number of seaven Sacraments he stood against the opinion of the immaculate conception of the blessed Virgin Marie and the like Tenets which be Articles of Faith with you In a word he plainely confessed that the Roman Church was degenerate from the auncient religion And this may suffise to shew what religion S. Bernard professed if any man desire to see more testimonies he may finde them in Master Pankes Collectanea out of Saint Gregorie the Great and S. Bernard the devout shewing that in most foundamentall points they are ours PAP Well but I challenge Saint Bernard for one of our side PROT. I have showne already that he was ours on the surer side he was indeed a Monke and in some things superstitious and no mervaile since he lived in a later age above a thousand yeares after Christ what time as errours crept into the Church which hee might sucke in from the age wherein he lived neverthelesse he was sound in the principall points of Religion for other things wee defend him not since as your owne Proverbe goes Bernardus non vidit omnia even holy Bernard had his blemishes Yet since he held the foundation of Iustification by Faith onely in Christ and disclaimed his owne merits though otherwise his hay and stubble of praying to Saints and such like stuffe as cannot endure the fire of the Holy Ghosts triall doe burne and consume yet since he kept close to the foundation wee doubt not but his soule is safe and rests with the Lord God pardoning his errours and ignorances which he being carryed with the streame of the time tooke up as they were delivered to him without scanning or
knowledge of Letters and study of Tongues specially the Greeke Latin began to spread abâ—â—ad thorow divers parts of the West Of this number were Emanuel Chrysoloras of Constantinople Theodorus Gaza of Thessalonica Georgius Trapezuntius Cardinall Bessarion and others in like sort also afterwards Iohn Capâ—io brought the use of the Greeke and Hebrew tongues into Germany as Faber Stapulensis observeth And in the beginning of this age Hebrew was first taught in Oxford as our accurat Chronologer Mr. Isaacson hath observed Now also lived Nicholas de Lyra a converted Iew who commented on all the Bible In this age there were divers both of the Greeke and Latin Church who stood for Regall Iurisdiction against Papall usurpation and namely Barlaam the Monke Nilus Archbishop of Thessalonica Marsilius Patavinus Michael Cesenas Generall of the gray Friers Dante the Italian Poet and William Ockam the English man sometime fellow of Merton Colledge in Oxford surnamed the Invincible Doctor and Scholler to Scotus the subtile Doctor Now also lived Durand de S. Porciano Nilus alleadgeth divers passages out of the generall Councels against the Popes supremacy and thence inferreth as followeth That Rome can not challenge preheminence over other Seas because Rome is named in order before them for by the same reason Constantinople should have the preheminence over Alexandria which yet she hath not From the severall and distinct boundaries of the Patriarchall Seas he argueth that neither is Rome set over other Seas nor others subject to Rome That whereas Rome stands upon the priviledge that other places appeale to Rome he saith That so others appeale to Constantinople which yet hath not thereby Iurisdiction over other places That whereas it is said the Bishop of Rome judgeth others and himselfe is not judged of any other he saith That St. Peter whose successour he pretends himselfe to be suffred himselfe to be reproved by S. Paul and yet the Pope tyrant-like will not have any enquire after his doings Barlaam prooveth out of the Chalcedon Councell Canon 28. That the Pope had not any primacy over other Bishops from Christ or S. Peter but many ages after the Apostles by the gift of holy Fathers and Emperours if the Bishop of Rome sayth hee had anciently the supremacy and that S. Peter had appointed him to be the Pastour of the whole Church what needed those godly Emperours decree the same as a thing within the verge of their owne power and jurisdiction Marsilius Patavinus wrote a booke called Defensor Pacis on the behalfe of Lewis Duke of Baviere and Emperour against the Pope for challenging power to invest and depose Kings Hee held that Christ hath excluded and purposed to exclude himselfe and his Apostles from principality or contentious jurisdiction or regiment or any coactive judgement in this world His other Tenets are reported to be these 1 That the Pope is not superiour to other Bishops much lesse to the Emperour 2. That things are to be decided by Scripture 3. That learned men of the Laiety are to have voyces in Councels 4. That the Cleargy and the Pope himselfe are to be subject to Magistrates 5. That the Church is the whole coÌ„pany of the faithfull 6. That Christ is the Head of the Church and appointâ—d none to be his Vicar 7. That Priests may marry 8. That St. Peter was never at Rome 9. That the popish â—ynagogue is a denne of theeves 10. That the Popes doctrine is not to be followed With this Marsilius of Pâ—dua there joyned in opinioÌ„ Iohn of Gandune and they both held that Clerkes are and should be subject to secular powers both in payment of Tribute and in iudgâ—ments specially not Ecclesiasticall so that they stood against the Exemption of Clerkes Michael Cesenas Generall of the Order of Franciscans stood up in the same quarrell and was therefore deprived of his dignities by Pope Iohn the two and twentieth from whom he appealed to the Catholicke universâ—ll Church and to the next generall Councell About this time also lived the noble Florentine Poet Dante a learned Philosopher and Divine who wrote a booke against the Pope concerning the Monarchy of the Emperour but for taking part with him the Pope banished him But of all the rest our Countrey-man Ockam stucke close to the Emperour to whom he sayd that if he would defend him with the sword he againe would defend him with the Word Ockam argueth the case and inclineth to this opinion that in temporall matters the Pope ought to be subject to the Emperour in as much as Christ himselfe as he was man professeth that Pilate had power to judge him given of God as also that neither Peter nor any of the Apostles had temporall power given them by Christ and hereof he gives testimony from Bernard and Gregory Ockams writings were so displeasing to the Pope as that he excommunicated him for his labour and caused his treatise or worke of ninety dayes as also his Dialogues to be put into the blacke bill of bookes prohibited and forbidden It is true indeed that Ockam submitted his writings to the censure and judgement of the Church but as hee saith to the judgement of the Church Catholike not of the Church malignant The same Ockam spoke excellently in the point of generall Councels Hee held that Councels are not called generall because they are congregated by the authority of the Romane Pope and that if Princes and Lay-men please they may be present have to deale with matters treated in general Councels That a generall Councell or that congregation which is commonly reputed a generall Councell by the world may erre in matters of faith and in case such a generall Councell should erre yet God would not leave his Church destitute of all meanes of saving truth but would raise up spirituall children to Abraham out of the rubbish of the Laiety despised Christians and dispersed Catholikes Wee have heard the judgement of the learned abroad touching Iurisdiction Regall and Papall let us now see the practice of our owne Church and State In the Reigne of King Edward the third sundry expresse Statutes were made that if any procured any Provisions from Rome of any Abbeyes Priories or Benefices in England in destruction of the Realme and holy Religion if any man sued any Processe out of the Court of Rome or procured any personall Citation from Rome upon causes whose cognisance and finall discussion pertained to the Kings Court that they should be put out of the Kings protection and their lands goods and chattels forfeited to the King In the Reigne of King Richard the second it was enacted That no Appeale should thenceforth be made to the Sea of Rome upon the penalty of a Praemunire which extended to perpetuall banishment and losse of all their lands and goods the words of the statute are If any purchase or pursue
top of wisedome and learning Neither did some young Students onely follow him but even the chiefe of the Vniversity Master Robert Rigge Vice-chancellour and the two Proctors tooke part with him as also Nicholas Herford Iohn Ashton of Mâ—rton-Colledge Iohn Ashwarby of Oriel-Colledge Pastour of St. Maries Church these being preachers and Bachelours of Divinity ioyned with him and were questioned on that behalfe Thomas Walsingham specially notes that when the Archbishop of Canterbury had sent Wickliffes condemnation to Robert Rigge Chancellour of the Vniversity of Oxford to be divulged hee appointed them to preach that day whom hee knew to be most zealous followers of Wickliffe and among others hee ordained one Philip Repington a Chanon of Leycester to preach on Corpus Christi day who concluded his Sermon with these words for speculative doctrine saith hee such as the point of the Sacrament of the Altar is I will set a barre on my lips while God hath otherwise instructed or illuminated the hearts of the Cleargy And afterwards when Bulles came thicke from Rome from the two Gregories the eleventh and twelfth against Wickliffe and his doctrine the whole Vniversity gave a testimony in favour of him under their seale in their Congregation house in these words among others God forbid that our Prelats should have condemned a man of suâ—h honesty for an Heretique but there is nothing that may more amply testifie the spreading of his Doctrine than an Act of Parliament in the dayes of King Richard the second where it is related that there were divers preaching dayly not onely in Churches and Church-yards but also in Markets Faires and other open places where a great congregation of people is divers Sermons contayning heresies and notorious errours for so they pleased to stile it in those dayes PAP Was Wickliffes doctrine followed after his death PROT. That which Wickliffe taught was neither borne with him nor died with him indeed if either the strength or policy of man could have made it away it had not continued as it doth to this day for in the yeere 1378. Pope Gregory the eleventh directed his Bull to the Vniversity of Oxford against the doctrine and Articles of that learned man even Rome it selfe ringing of his opinions in that Vniversity and Walsingam sayth that the Pope taxed the Heads of the Vniversity for the sleight care they tooke in the suppressing of Wickliffes doctrine and the same Walsingham complaines that those of the Vniversity were long time in suspence whether they should receive the Popes Bull with honour or rejeâ—t it with reproach Afterwards Gregory the twelfth directed another Bull to Oxford against Wickliffe Thomas Arundell Archbishop of Canterbury held a Councell at Oxford and procured a visitation and sharpe Inquisition against the Heads of Colledges Halls and others suspected of Wicklevisme or Lollardy and this Constitution is to be seene in Linwood Now this was but a Provinciall Constitution in comes the Councell of Constance and condemnes Wickliffe causing his bones to be taken up and burned forty yeares after his death and buriall and this mandate of the Popes was executed by Richard Flemming Bishop of Lincolne as Linwood testifieth who lived at the time when this was done to wit in the yeere 1428. and thus was the canonicall censure passed upon Wickliffe and his adherents now the secular power joyned with them for in the dayes of King Henry the fourth and fifth there was made the Statute de Haeretico comburendo whereby the Wicklevists and Lollards were adjudged to be burned After this King Edward the fourth sent mandatory letters to the Governours in Oxford to make search for Wickliffes bookes and to burne them and accordingly the Masters and Doctours did Here is now both his bones and his bookes burnt they thought belike to make sure worke and never to heare more of the man againe but so it was that out of his ashes as it were there arose another Phoenix and generation of Wicklevists which renued his memory doctrine belike then there were many that followed his Doctrine or else why made they so much adoe what needed so many Statutes Letters and Proclamations so many Bulles Councels and Constitutions Indeede there were many in Oxford and else-where and them of good note who imbraced Wickliffes opinions after his decease as namely Lawrence Redman master of Arts David Sawtree a Divine William Iones Thomas Brightwell William Haulam a Civilian Raphe Greenhurst Fellow of New-colledge as also one Walter Bruite a Layman mentioned by one William Wideford a great Papist this Wideford writing against Wickliffe mentions a booke of his owne sent to the Bishop of Hereford in confutation of the booke of Walter Bruite In a word Wickliffes doctrine was not contained within England onely but it gave light to other countries also insomuch as one Peter Paine who was Wickliffes Scholler and was sent with other Legats to the Councell at Basil went into Bohemia whither he carried with him some of Wickliffes bookes some part where of Iohn Hussâ— translated into his mothers tongue as Cochleus saith who also reports how one of the Bishops wrote to him out of England that he had two Volumes of Wickliffes which were almost as large as Saint Austins workes PAP What taught Wickliffe taught he as you doe PROT. Hee taught the same in substance that we doe as may appeare by a Treatise of Wickliffes Conformity with the now Church of England both in doctrine and discipline Besides we may take a taste of his Tenets out of his Treatise against the orders of Friers wherein he saith as followeth First Friars seyen that their Religion founden on sinfull men is more perfit than that Religion or order which Christ himselfe made Friars pursuen true Priests and letten them to preach the Gospell They pursuen Priests for they reproven their sins as God bids both to burne them and the Gospell of â—hrist written in English to most learning of our nation Friars send out Ideots full of covetise to preach not the Gospell but Chronicles fables and leasings to please the people and to rob them Friars by letters of Fraternity deceiven the people in Faith robben them of temporall goods and maken the people to trust more in dead parchment sealed with leasings and in vaine prayers of Hypocrites than in the helpe of God Friars perverten the right faith of the Sacrament of the Auter and bringen a new heresie they say it is an Accident withouten subjeâ—t which heresie came never into the Church till the foule feende Satanas was unbounden after a thousand yeeres Friars being made Bishops robben men by extortion as in punishing of sinne for money and suffren men to lie in sin getten of Antichrist false exemption Friars teachen Lords and namely Ladies that if they dyen in Francis habit they shall never come in hell for the vertue thereof Men sayen
in all matters of Religion he agreed fully with the Catholike Roman Church PRO. What his Religion was let his owne workes testifie Guicciâ—rdine saith that amongâ—â— other things hâ—e was charged That his doctrine was not fully Catholike hee meaneth Roman Catholike and Comminees saith That one of the Frier Minorites his professed adversary charged him to be an Heretike so that in his opinion he was not in each point a Roman Catholike And to take the Popes procesâ—e which was published against him as wee find it in Guicciardine Therein it is given out that Savonarola had a holy desire that by his meanes a Generall Councell might be called wherein the corrupt customes of the Clergy might bee reformed and the estate of the Church of God so farre wandred and gone astray might bee reduced so farre forth as was possible to the likenesse of that it was in the Apostles time or those that were neerest unto them and if he could bring so great and so profitable a worke to effect hee would thinke it a farre greater glory then to obtaine the Pope-dome it sâ—lfe in the same Processe it is contained how hee despised the Popes commandements and returned publikely to his olâ— office of preaching affirming that the Popâ—s censures published against him were unjust and of no force as also that the matters by him prophesiâ—d were not pronounced by divine revelation but by his proper opinion grounded upon the doctrine and observation of holy Scripture And now let the Reader consider by that which Guicciardine reports of Savonarola and namely touching the opinion he had of the Popes authoritie and his excommunications touching generall Councels and the deformitie and degeneration of the Churches state in respect of antiquitie as also what Comminees saith of his preaching of the Reformation of the Church and that by the Sword as formerly our Grosthead Bishop of Lincolne foretold and then let him judge of what profession he was likely to be Now for the poynt of faction and sedition It is true indeâ—d that there was a great faction in Florence not onely amongst the Laity but the Spiritualty alâ—o but it doth not appeare that Hierome was the Author or nourisher of this discord or that he had any hand in that tumult wherein Francisco Valori a principall favourer of Savonarola was slaine When Saint Paul preached the Gospel in Asia the whole Citty of Ephâ—sus was full of confusion and they rushed into the Common place and caught Gajus and Aristarchus Pauls companions of his journey Act. 19. ver 29. Was Paul or his companions the occasion of this tumult Savonarola preached the word of God in Florence his adversaries tooke Armes entred the Monasterie of Saint Marke where hee was and drew him and two of his brethren Dominick and Silvester out of the Covent and put them into the common prisons upon occasion of a mutinie in the Citie but Hierome and his fâ—llowes occasioned not this tumult It was indeed pâ—â—tended thaâ— he sided with the one faction in Florence but Philip de Comminees who knew him better than Paâ—sons toucheth that which brought the Frâ—er to the sâ—ake namâ—ly In that hee prophâ—sied and that so vehemently and freely of the comming in of forraine forces and of a King that by force of Armes should reforme the corrupt state of the Church and chastise the Tyrants of Italy this was it saith he which made the Pope and the state of Florence hate him Thus have we heard of his life and death there remaineth nothing now but his Epiâ—aph wherewith Flaminius a famous Poet of Italy hath honoured him And thus it is Dum fera flaâ—ma tuos Hieronyme pascitur artus Religio flevit dilaniâ—ta comas Flevit et ô dixit crudeles parcite flammae Paâ—ite sunt isto viscera nostra rogo That is Whiles Hiâ—rome to the firy stake was led Religion tore her haire and wept and said You cruell flames oh spare this tender heart For whiles he burns Religion feels the smart And so I proceed to the severall points in question Of the Scriptures Sufficiencie and Canon Geâ—son makes the word of Christ the sole authenticall ground of faith and the onely infallible rule to decide controvâ—rsies The Scriptures saith he is given unto us as a sufficient and infallible Rule for the governement of the whole body of â—he Church and each part thereof unto the end of the world What evill saith the same Gerson hath followed upon the contempt of holy Scripture which doubtlesse is sufficient for the government of the Church for otherwise Christ had beene an unperfect Law giveâ— experâ—eâ—ce will teach That Wickliffe affirmeth that nâ—ither Friers nor Prelates may define aâ—y thing in matters of faith unlesse they have the auâ—hority of sacred Scripture or some speciall revelation I dislikâ— not saith Waldensis but his waywardnesse and craft I condemne and thinke it necessary lest wee wrest the Scâ—â—ptures and erre in the interpretation of them to follow the â—radition of the Church expounding them unto us and not to trust to our own private singular conceits This is that which Vincentius Lirinensis long since delivered Alphonsus Tostatus saith Although the bookes in question bee received of the Church yet are thâ—y not of any solide auâ—hority and thâ—refore they are improfitable to prove and confirme those things which are called in question according to Saint Hierome Thomas Waldensis cites out of Hierome the Canâ—n of the old Testament in these words As there are twâ—nty two letters by which we write in Hebrew all that we speake so there are accounted twenty two bookes by which as letters wee are instructed in the doctrine of God and withall addeth That the whole Canonicall Scripture is contained in the two and twenty bookes Dionysius Carthusiâ—nus in writing upon Ecclesiasticus saith That booke is not of the Conon that is amongst the Canonicall Scriptures although there be no doubt made of the truth of that booke This is likewise confessed by Pererius the Iesuite saying Dionysius Carthusianus and Lyra doe not deny the History of Susanna to be true but they deny the bookes of Iudith Tobit and the Maccabees to apertaine to the Cononicall Scriptures And the like observation touching Lyra is made by Picus Mirandula and Picus himselfe would have us note that many things which in the Decrees are reckoned for Apocryphall and so accounted by Hierome are neverthelesse read in the Divine Service and many things also which some hold not to bee truâ— Of Communion under both kinds and number of Sacraments The Councel of Constance did not simply forbid the ministring of the Sacrament in both kinds but the teaching of the people that of necessity it must be so ministred for so we find in the thirteenth Session of the said Councel That if any should obstinately maintaine that it was unlawfull or â—rronious to receive in one kind he ought to be punished
and driven out as an Hereticke Gerson howsoever he thought that the Church might lawfully prescribe the communicating in one kind alone wherein we cannot excuse him yet hee acknowledgeth That the Communion in both kinds was anciently used The Councel of Basil permitted the Bohemians to continue the use of the Communion in both kinds upon condition That they should not find fault with the contrary use nor sever themselves from the Catholicke Church Iacobellus Misvensis a Preacher of Prague being admonished by Petrus Dresdensis after he had searched into the writings of the ancient Doctors and by name Dionysius and Saint Cyprian and finding in them the communicating of the Cup to the Laity commanded hee thenceforth exhorted the people by no meanes to neglect or omit the receiving the Communion of the Cup. Cardinal Bessarion Bishop of Tusculum professeth in expresse termes Wee reade onely of two Sacraments which were plainely delivered in the Gospel Of the Eucharist Waldensis saith That some supposed the Conversion that is in the Sacrament to be in that the bread and wine are assumed into the unitie of Christs person some thought it to be by way of Impanation and some by way of Figurative and Tropical appellation The first and second of those opinions found the better entertainement in some mens mindes because they grant the essentiall preseâ—ce of Christs body and yet deny not the presence of the bread still remaining to sustaine the appearing Accidents These opinions he reports to have beene very acceptable to many not without sighes wishing the Church had Decreed That men should follow one of them Whereupon Iohn Paris writeth That this way of Impanation so pleased Guido the Carmelite sometime Reader of the Holy Palace that he professed if hee had beene Pope he would have prescribed and commanded the embracing of it Petrus de Alliaco the Cardinal professâ—th that for ought he can see the substantiall Conversion of the Sacramental elements into the body and bloud of Christ cannot be proved either out of scripture or any determination of the universal Church maketh it but a matter of opinion inclining rather to the other opinion of Consubstantiation His words are these That manner or meaning which supposeth the substance of bread to remaine still is possible neither is it contrary to reason or to the authoritie of the Scriptures nay it is more easie and more reasonaâ—ble to conceive than that which sayes the Substance doth leave the Accidents And of this opinion no inconvenience doth seeme to ensue if it could accord with the Churches determination And hee addes That the opinion which holdeth the substance of bread to remaine doth not â—vidently follow of the Scripture nor in his seeming of the Churches determination Biel saith It is not expressed in the Canon of the Bible how the body of Christ is in the Sacrament and hereof anciently there have beene divers opinions Cajetaâ— saith that secluding the Churches authoritie there is no written word of God sufficient to enforce a Christian to receive this doctrine of Transubstantiation Saurez the Iesuit ingeniously professeth that Cardinal Cajetan in his Commentâ—rie upon this Article did aâ—â—irme that those words of Christ. This is my Body doe not of themselves sufficiently prove Transubstantiation without the Churches authoritie and therefore by the Commandment of Pius Quintus that part of his Commentarie is left out in the Roman Edition By this it appeares that their learned Councel of Schoolemen who lived in this Age were not fully agreed upon the poynt Of Images and Prayer to Saints Abulensis was so farre from allowing the worship of Images as that he held it a thing unlawfull in it selfe Deut. 4.16 secluding Adoration to make any visible Image or representation of God according to his deâ—ty for hence saith hee these two inconveniences will follow First The Perill of Idolaâ—rie in case the Image it selfe should come to be adored and Secondly Errour and Heresie whiles one shall asâ—ribe to God such bodily shapes and formes as the Trinity â—s usually pictured withall Now that Abulensis with othâ—rs held it unlawfull to picture or represâ—nt the Trinâ—tie is acknowledged by Bellarmine saying It is Calvins opinion in the first booke of his Institutions cap 11. that it is an abhominable sinne to make a â—â—sible and bodâ—ly Image of the invisible and incorporeall God and this opinion of Calvins is also the opinion of some Catholicke Doctors as Abulensiâ— upon 4. Deut. quest 5. and Durand upon 3. dist 9. qu. 2. and Peresius in his booke of â—raditions Gerson condemned all mâ—king of an Image or portraiture appointed or accommodaâ—ed to worship and aadorationâ— saying Thou shalt â—ot adore thâ—m nor worship them which are thus to bâ— distinguished Thou shalt not adore them that is With any bodily reverence or bowing or kneeling to them Thou shalt not worship them with any devotion of mind Images therefore are prohibited to bee either adored or Worshipped The same Gerson disliked the varietie of pictures and Images in Churches occasioning Idolatry in the simple If Christians were in no peâ—ill of Idolatry by worshipping Images why doth Gerson complaineâ— that Superstition had infected Christian Religion anâ— that people like Iewesâ— did onely sâ—eke after Signes and yeeld Divine honour to Images Cassander writeth in this manner The opinion of Thomas Aquinas who holdeth that Images are to be woâ—shipped as their Samplers is disliked by soundâ—r Scâ—oolemen amongst whom is Durand Holcot and Gabriel â—iel Biel reporteth the opinion of them which say that an Image neither as it is considered in it selfe materâ—ally nor yâ—t according to the nature of a Signe or Image is to bee worshipped And he saith well that this opinion of Thomas was disliked of others for besides those already mentioned this was one of the Problems which Picus Mirandula proposed to be maintained by him at Rome namely that Neither the Crosse nor any other Image was to be worshipped with Latria or Divine worship no not in that sense as Thomas would have it And when otheâ—s carped at this and other his Assertions touching â—he Sacrament of the Eucharist himselfe made his owne Apologie and defence Touching Invocation of Saints though Gerson did not absolutely condemne it yet hee reprehendeth the abuses and sâ—persâ—iâ—ious observations then prevailing in the worshiâ—ping of Sâ—ints veâ—y bitterly For in his Consolatoâ—y tract of Rectifying the Heart amongst many oâ—her considâ—rations he complaineth That â—hâ—re is incollerable â—uperstitioÌ„ in the worshipping of Saints innumerable observations without all ground of reason vaine credulitie in beleeving things concerning the Saints reported in the uncertaine Legends of their lives superstitious opinions of obtaining Pardon and remission of sinnes by saying so many Pater nosters in such a Church before such an Image as if in the Scriptures and Authenticall writings of holy men there were not sufficient direction for all
say it was not onely apparant enough in the Greeke and Easterne Churches and in such as had made an open separation from the Romish corruptions such as were in these Westerne parts the Wâ—ldenses Wickleâ—iâ—ts and Hussites but it was also within the community of the Romish Church it selfe even there as in a large field grew much good corne among tares and weeds there as in a great bâ—rne heape or garner was preserved much pure graine mixed with store of chaffe Object I except against that you have said Master Brereley cals it a Ridle To say your Church was under the Papacie as wheat is under the chaffe and yet the Papacie was not the true Church Answer It is no Enigma or Ridle it being all one in effect as to say the Christian Church at our Saviours comming and after consisting of Ioseph and Mary Simeon and Anna the Shepherds and the Sages Christs disciples and others was in and under the Iewish Church consisting of Scribes and Pharisees who with their false glosses and vaine traditions had corrupted the Law of God was not sanum membrum a sound part of Gods Church but as our Saviour saith Like sheepe without a Shepheard Mark 6.34 Object You say your Church was under the papacie but the papacie was not the true Church by the like reason you may say that the hidden Church of God is preserved among the Turkes can there be a Church without an outward ministerie Answer It followeth not and the reason of the difference is because amongst the Turkes there is not that meanes of salvation inasmuch as they have not given their names to Christ but the true Church of God may bee preserved withiâ— the Romish Church in as much as they have the Scriptures though in a strange tongue as also Baptismeâ— and lawfull ordination and the like helpes which God in all ages used that his Elect might begathered out of the midst of Babylon And whereas you urge an outward and publike ministery this maketh nothing against the Church of England which for substance hath the same descent of outward ordination with the Roman Church neither can any man shew a more certaine pedegree from his great Grand father than our Bishops and Pastors can fâ—om suâ—h Bishops as your Church accounts canonâ—call in the time of King Henry the eight and upward such â—aâ—re evidence can wee produce for an outward and publâ—ke miâ—istery in the Church of England and such ordination wee hold very necessary and yet in case it cannot be had Gods children by their private reading and meditation of that which they have formerly learned may supply the defect of a publike ministery even as some Christians at this day being slâ—ves in Turky or Barbarie may be saved wiâ—hout externall ministery but this is in case of extremity for us we never wanted a standing ministery Neither did the Waldenses Wicklivâ—sts and Hussites for so I call them for distinction sake ever want an outward and lawfull ministery amongst them for the administration of the word and Sacramentsâ— Object You say your Professors communicated with the Roman Church but did not partake in her errours as you call them did they not joyne with them in the Massâ— and the Letanies of the Saints and the like Answer The thing wee say is this that howsoever they outwardly communicaâ—ed with Rome yet divers of them misliked in their heart their grosser erroâ—s they groaned under the Babylonish yoake and desired reformation besides many of them were ignorant of the depth and mysterie of poperie Object If your Protestant Church were in bâ—ing at and before Luthers appearing then did such as were members thereof either make profession thereof or not if they did tell us their names and where they did so if they did not then were they but dissemblers in Religion according to that of Saint Paul Rom. 10.10 and our Saviour Math. 10.33 Answer I will but take what your Rhemists grant and reâ—oâ—t your owne argument they say That the Catholike Church in their time was in England although it had no publike government nor open free exercise of holy function whence I argue thus if their Roman Church had any being at that time in England then their Priests and Iesuits either made publike profession of their faith or not if they made open profession why then did they goe in Lay-mens habits and lurke in corners if they made not open profâ—ssion then were they but dissemblers Besides I have already given you in a Catalogue of our professors who within the time mentioned witnessed that truth which wee maintaine by their writings confessiâ—ns and Martyrdom Now for us wee have rejected nothing but popery wee have willingly departed from the Communion of their errors and additions to the faith but from the Communion of the Church wee never departed In a word there were some who openly and constantly withstood the errours and corâ—uptions of their time and sealed with their bloud that truthâ— which they with us professed others dissented from the same errours but did not with the like courage oppâ—se themselves such as would sâ—y to their friends in private Thus I would say in the Schooles and openly Sed maneat inter nos diversum sentio but keepe my Councel I thinke the contrary PA. Was not the Masse publickly used in all Churches at Lâ—thers aâ—pearinâ— was Protestancie then so much as in being saith Master Bâ—eâ—ely PRO. If by a Protestant Church saith learned Doctor Field we meâ—ne a Church beleeving and teaching in all poinâ—s as Protestants doe and beleeving and teaching nothing but that they doe the Latine or West Church wherein the Pope â—yranâ—ized before Luthers time was and continuâ—d a true Protestant Church for it taught as we doe it condemned the superstition wee have removed it groaned under the yoke of tyranny which wee have cast off howsoever there were many in the midâ—t of her that brought in and maintained superstition and advanced the Popes Supremacie But if by a Protestant Church they understand a Church that not onely dislikes and complaines of Papal usurpation but also abandonâ—th it and not onely teacheth all necessary and saving truth but suffâ—reth none within her jurisdiction to teach otherwise wee confesse that no part of the Westerne Church was in this sort a Pâ—otestant Church till a Reformation was begun of evils formerly dislikâ—d Now whereas it is objâ—ctâ—d that the Masse wherein they say many chiefe poinâ—s oâ— their Râ—ligion are comprehended was publickely uâ—ed at Luthers appearing It is answered by Doctor Field that thâ— usiâ—g oâ— the Masse as the publicke Liturgie is no good proofe inasmuch as manifold abuses in pâ—actice besides and contrary to thâ— word of the Canon and the inâ—enâ—â—â—â— of them that first compoâ—ed the sameâ— have creâ—t into iâ— as also sundry Apocryphall thiâ—gs have slipt into the publicke Service of the Church these things will bâ—tter appeare by â—articular instances Concerning private
were held as you say not by the best members of the Church but by a domineering faction therein how came it that the prevailing faction suffered others to dissent from them in judgement Answer So long as men yeelded outward obedience to the Church-ceremonies without scandall in other things they were suffered to abound in their owne sense so that they submitted themsâ—lves to the obedience of the Church of Rome Besides the Church of Râ—me had not so strictly defined those Tenets in any Councel before as afterwards they did in the Councel of Tâ—ent PA. Our name Catholicke is ancient your Protestant name came not in till after Luther Besides it is a scandalous thing for your Church to derive authoritie from Wickliffâ— Husse Luther and Calvin PRO. Indeed the name Protestant began upon the protâ—sting of the Elector and Laâ—d grave against the Edict howsoever the Faith is ancient though the name bee not and yet if you stand upon names wee are called Christians and into that name were wee Baptized and that is anciâ—nter than your Roman catholicke Now you are called Catholickes but it is with an aliâs or addition Roman-Caâ—holickes as much as to say Particular Vniversall the part is the whole one Citty the woâ—ld and it is your selves that terme you Catholickes Now if one Papist call another so it is but as if one Mule should claw another The Hagarens boldly usurped the name of Sarazens although they were only the brood that sprang from the wombe of Hagar the hand-maid of Sara The Papists by this terme Catholicke worke upon simple people arguing from the one to the other as if all the priviledges of the Catholicke Church belonged to the Romane but we tell them as Optatus did the Donatists who pinned up the Church in a corner of Africke as the Romanists now conâ—ine her to their See that Their Church is Quasi Ecclesia in some sort a Church but not the Catholicke Church but an unsound member thereof We doe not derive our Church from any other than the Primitive Catholicke and Apoâ—tolickâ— Chuâ—ch The Lord is not farre from every â—â—e of us for we are also his off spring Christ Iesus is the top of our kiâ—ne and Religion the stocke Your Pedegre mâ—y be drawne in part from some of the ancient Hereâ—iâ—kes in â—espect of your Invocaâ—ion of Sainâ—s and Angelsâ— you are a kinne at least by the halfe bloud to the Angelici Who as Saint Austâ—ne saith were inclined to the worship of Angels and were from thence as Isidore noteth Called Angelici because they did worship Angelâ— By your Hyperdalâ—a and wâ—â—ship given to the blessed Virgin you shew your selves allied to the Collyridian Hereâ—ikes whom Epiphanius termes Idolaters now thâ—y were called Collyridians from the Collyrides or Cakes which at a certaine time of the yeare they used to offer unto the blessed Virgin sacrificing to her as to the Qâ—eene of heavâ—n By your doctrine of merit and workes of supererogâ—tion you resemble the Pelagians or Catharists Isidore notes it for a propertie of the Catharists or ancient Puritans To glory of their merits Thomas Waldâ—n saith It was a branch of the Pelagian heresie to â—old that according to the measure of meritorious workes God will reward a man so meriâ—ing Now the Rhemists a sprig of this branch mainâ—aine That they doe woâ—ke by their owne freewill and thereby deserve their salvation as also that Good workes are meritorious and the very cause of salvatâ—on so farre that God should be unjust if he rendred not hâ—aven for the same Now concerning the names of Wicklâ—ffe and Husse Luther and Calvin wherewith you pressâ—uâ— you shâ—ll not hereby drive us from holding that with them which thâ—y held of God for though wee rejoyce not in names drawnâ— from men but in the name of Christians into the which we are bapâ—ized yet wee know no great harme by them nor you we thinke set slaunders apaâ—t why we shâ—uld bee ashamed of them more than oâ—r Fathers were of Caecilian of whom the Dâ—natists câ—lled thâ—m Caeciâ—ianists but had they beene as evill almost as their enemies report them from which impâ—tations they are alrâ—aâ—y cleared anâ— theiâ— doctâ—ine â—ixâ— with lâ—â—ven as was the Phâ—risees yet Saint Paul hath tauâ—ht us to acknowledge our selves even Pâ—â—â—iseâ—s iâ— need be not onely Lutherans or Waldensâ—s in that the Pharisees taught a truth of Christian faith to wit the Resurrection of the dead In a word we esteeme of Calvin and Luther and the rest of the first Reformers as worthy men but wee make them not Lords over our faith PA. What thinke you of our fore-fathers that lived and died in the time of Poperie as you call it they were of our Religion PRO. I thinke charitably of them that they might bee saved for many of them were well meaning men and wanting meanes of better instruction they were carried with the sway of the times and as Saint Paul saith 1. Tim. 1.13 Did it ignorantly like those two hundred 2. Sam. 15.11 who in simplicity of heart followed Absalon knowing nothing of his treason and rebellion intended they knew not the depth and mysterie of poperie not their Merit of condignity nor their severall sorts of adoration their Latria Dulia and Hyperdulia Indeed the Scriptures and Church-service were lockt up in an unknowne tongue and yet even in the depth of Poperie as appeares by a Councell held at Clyffe and also by a Provinciall Constitution of Iohn Peckam Arch-bishop of Canterbury The Priests were enjoyned to teach the people the heads of Christian faith and Religion and namely to expound unto them the Creed the ten Commandements and the Sacraments and that vulgariter that is as the Glosse there saith in the vulgar and mother tongue to wit in English to the native English and in French to the French-borne so that even in those daâ—ker times there was a measure of explicite faith required at the hands of Lay-people and they were to be trained up in the knowledge of those Credendorum so farre as the Letter of the Creed might leade them and Faciendorum such as the Decalogue appointed them and Petendorum comprised in the Lords prayer and Recipiendorum tendred in the Sacraments It is Lyrae's conceit that when Saint Paul saith 1. Cor. 14.19 Hee had ratâ—er in the Church speake five words with his undeâ—standing then ten thousand in a strange tongue that those five words were those Agenda and Credenda which concerne our faith and manners as also those Vitanda Timenda and Speranda which the Pastors were to declare unto the people Besides there were divers parcels of the Creed concerning Christ and namely touching his Incarnation Passion his Resurrection and Ascension that were wont to be represented to their memories and meditations in the severall Festivities and Holy-dayes which the Church solemnized Besides wee hope the better for that they erred in points of
Church holding that shee was a pure Virgin both before the birth of Christ and that shee also continued a Virgin all her life after condemned Helvidius for an Heretike now why were the Helvidians adjudged Heretikes surely because they beleeved more than was reveled in the word and would have thrust that on the Church for an Article of faith which had no ground at all And this is your case you over-â—each in your beliefe as the Helvidian Heretikes did witnesse your tenets of Transubstantiation adoration of Images Invocation of Saints Purgatory the Popes supremacie and the like wherein your faith is monstrous like the Gâ—ant of Gath who had on every hand sixe fingers and on every foote sixe toes and so it is with you who in the new Creed of Pope Pius the fourth have shuffled in more Articles of faith than ever God and his Catholike Church made Neither doe wee fall short in our beliefe for wee measure our faith by the standard and rule of Gods written wordâ— now since it jumpeth with the rule it neither faileth in defect nor over-reacheth in excesse Now by this time I hope I have performed the taske which I undertooke PA. You have indeed given in a Catalogue of visible Professors in some part of Christendome but what is this to the whole universall Church PRO. Very much for these particular congregations serve to make up the whole state of Christ his Church militant here on earth now this Church farre and wide dispersed hath in her particular members for substance of doctrine taught as wee doe To begin with the Easterne Church amongst the Grecians and Armenians The Grecians held that the Romane Church had not any Supremacie of Iurisdiction authoritie and grace above or over all other Churches They celebrated the Sacrament of the Eucharist in both kinds as we doe They denied that there was any Purgatorie fire They denied Extreame unction to bee a Sacrament properly so called They reject the Religious use of Massie Images or Statues admitting yet Pictures or plaine Images in their Churches The Armenians denie the true body of Christ to be really in the Sacrament of the Eucharist under the Species of Bread and Wine They denie the vertue of conferring grace to belong to the Sacraments Ex Opere operato They denie the Popes Supremacie and are subject to two of their owne Patriarches whom they call Catholicks They reject Purgatorie They have their publicke Service in their vulgar language The North-east Church amongst the Russians and Muscovites as they were converted to Christianitie by the Grecians so have they ever since continued of the Greeke Communion and Religion They have their divine Service in their owne vulgar language They reject Purgatorie They communicate in both kinds They denie the spirituall efficacie of Extreame unction To proceede now to the south-South-Church amongst the Habassines or mid land Aethiopians the Character of their Religion is this as I find it in Maâ—hew Dresser who reports it from Francis Alvarez a Portugal Priest and sometimes Legat into Aethiopia They communicate in both kinds They use no Extreame unction They reverence the Saints but they pray not unto them they doe much honour the mother of Christ but they neither adore her nor crave her mediation They have their Liturgie or Church Service in their owne vulgar language They have a Patriarcke of their owne who is confirmed and consecrated by the Patriarcke of Alexandria on which See they depend and not on the Romane In the Westerne Church we have the consent of the Waldenses in France the Wicklevists in England commonly called Lollards and Thaborites in Bohemia Here be then the Greeke and Latine Church the Churches in the the East West North and South all of them teaching for substance of doctrine as we doe I know indeed that Bellarmine sleighteth these Churches of Graecia Armenia Russia and Aethiopia saying We are no more moved with their examples than with the examples of Lutherans and Calvinists for they bee either Hereticks or Schismaticks So that all Churches be they never so Catholicke and ancient if they subscribe not to the now Romanâ— Faith are either Schismaticall or Hâ—reticall But we may not be so uncharitable to these afflicted Churches For as learned Bishop Vsher saith if wee should take a survey of these Churches and put by the points wherein they did differ one from another and gather into one body the rest of the Articles wherein they all did generally agree we should find that in those propositions which without all controveâ—sie are universally â—eceived in the whole Christian world so much truth is conâ—eined as being joyned with holy obedience may be sufficient to bring a man unto everlasting salvation Object I except against the Greeke Church for that it denieth the procession of the Holy Ghost from the Son of God Answer Every errour denieth not Christ the foundation Indeed it would have grated the foundation if they had so denied the procession of the Holy Ghost from the Sonne as that they had made an inequalitie betweene the Persons but since their forme of speech is that the Holy Ghost proceedeth from the Father by the Sonne and is the spirit of the Sonne and since as the Master of the Sentences saith Non est aliud It is not another thing to say the Holy Ghost is the Spirit of the Father and the Sonne then that he is or proceeds from the Father and the Sonne in this they seeme to agree with us In eandem fidei sententiam upon the same sentence of Faith though they differ in words Since I say they thus expresse themselves they may continue to bee a true Church though erronious in the point mentioned In like sort Scotus following his Master Lombard saith that The difference betweene the Greekes and the Latines in this point is rather Verball in the manner of speech than Reall and materiall Besides it seemes by the same Scotus that the Greeks held no other Heresie then Saint Basil and Gregory Nazianzene held whom yet no man durst ever yet call Hereticks so that you must give us the famous Greeke Church againe PA. I have yet divers exceptions to take at your Catalogue as also at your English Martyrologie for you have named out of Foxe some for Martyrs who were very meane persons namely Iohn Claydon a Curriar of Leather Richard Howden a Wooll-winder as also some by name Thomas Bagley for a Martyr who was a married Priest PRO. What though some of them were tradesmen did not Peter stay divers daies in Ioppa with one Simon a Tanner Act. 9.43 Was not that godly convert Lydia a seller of Purple Act. 16.14 Hath not God chosen the base things of the world to confound the mighty 1 Cor. 1.27 c. Besides they were no such base people for among others I produced
and differed from you so that they cannot belong to the same Church PRO. Concerning Wickliffâ— Husse and the rest if they have any of them borne record to the truth and resisted any innovation of corrupt Teachers in their times even to blood they are justly to be termed Martyrs yea albeit they saw not all corruptions but in some were themselves carried away with the streame of error Else if because they erred in some things they be no Martyrs or because we dissent from them in some things we are not of the same Church both you and we must quit all claime to Saint Cyprian Iustin Martyr and many more whom we count our ancients and predecessors and bereave them also of the honour of martyrdome which so long they have enjoyed Irenaus and Iustin Martyr held the error of the Millenaries Cyprian many others held Rebaptization necessary for such as were baptized by heretikes S Austin and the greatest part of the Church for sixe hundred yeares held a necessitie of the Eucharist to Infants and in other things differed one from another and from the Church in the aftertimes correcting their errors yet because they all entirely and stedfâ—stly held all the necessary fundamentall principles which these errors did not infringe neither held they these errors obstinatly but only for want of better information they were of the same Church and Religion whereof we are S. Austin saith There be some things in which the most Learned and best Defenders of the Catholike Rule the bond of faith preserved do sometimes not agree among themselves and one in some one thing saith righter than anoher Now if the different opinions of the Fathers in some points hindred not their union in substance of the faith and their being members all of the same Church why should the like or lesser differences now among the Protestants hinder their union in substance of the same faith and their being members all of the same Chuch both among themselves and with the Fathers yea but Wickliffe and Husse with others mentioned in our Catalogue they erred in point of faith it is true but yet their error was not joyned with pertinacy they errâ—d not incorrigibly buâ— for want of better information they erred in that doctrine of faith wherein the truth was not fully scanned declared and confirmed by a Plenary Councell as S. Austin speaketh had it beene we may well thinke the very same of all those holy men which Austin most charitably saith of Saint Cyprian Without doubt they would have yeelded to the truth being manifested unto them by the authority of the whole Church Object We are at vnity but your Protestants are at ods and namely your Lutherans and Calvinists in the point of the Sacrament the one holding Consubstantiation and the other opposing it Answer The Protestants especially we of the Church of England are at unity as appeares by the Harmony of our confessions as also by our joynt subscriptions to the Articles of Râ—ligion established And for the point mentioned the difference is nothing so great as you would have it thought for as the moâ—t learned and judicious Zanchius observeth and our Doctor Field out of him In all necessary points both the parties agree and dissent in one unnecessary which by right understanding one another might easily be compounded Both sides saith Zanchius doe agree that the elements of bread and wine are not abolished in their substance but onely changed in their use which is not onely to signifie but also to exhibit and communicate unto us the very body and blood of Christ with all the gracious working and fruits thereof Both parties agree that the very body and blood of Christ are truely present in the Sacrament and by the faithfull truely and really received Thus farre all parties agree that is in the whole necessary and sufficient substance of the doctrine of this Sacrament for the other matter wherein they differ de modo of the manner how Christ is present in the Sacrament seeing it is not expressed in the Scriptures in the judgement of Zanchius it might well be omitted and they themselves confesse when they have gone as farre as they can to determine it still it is ineffable and not possible to be fully understood It is enough for us saith the same Zanchius to beleeve the body and blood are there though how and in what manner wee cannot define So then in this maine controversie betweene them about Consubstantiation which as Zanchius saith did afterwards occasion that other of ubiquity in both these controversies the main truth on both sides is out of controversie that Christ is really truly exhibited to each faithfull Communicant and that in his whole person he is every where the doubt is onely in the manner how he is in the Symbols and how in heaven and earth Now for other ods amongst us they be but in Ceremonies or at worst in points of no absolute consequence whereas the differences amongst Papists concerne the life of Religion They differ concerning the Supreame authoritie of the Church whether it be in the Pope or in the Generall Councel The Councels of Constance and Basil determined that a Generall Councel was above the Pope the Councel of Florence decreed the Pope to be above a Generall Councel They differ concerning the manner of the conception of the Virgin Mary The Dominican Friers following the Thomists hold that she was conceived in Originall sinne the Franciscans hold the contrary The moderne Popes disâ—gree with the ancient concerning the dignitie of universall Bishop adoration of Images Transubstantiation Communion in both kinds and the Merit of good workes as is already showne in the fifth and seaventh Centurie of this treatise So cleere is it that some doctrines of the later Roman Church were opposed by the ancient Roman Bishops thâ—mselves to wit adoration of Images as also the dignity and title of universal Bishop by Gregorie the Great coÌ„munion in one kind â— as also the merit of good works by Leo the first TransubstantiatioÌ„ by Gelasius the first Besides the Iesuits and Dominicans differ at this day concerning the weighty point of Free-will and Grace The truth is the Popish Faith varieth not onely with their persons but according to time and place so that they can exchange their tenets upon occasion advance or cry downe their opinions at their pleasure as may best serve for their advantage For as Azorius the Iesuit saith It falls out often that that which was not the common opinion a few yeares since now is And that which is the common opinion of Divines in one Country is not so in another As in Spaine and Italy it is the common opinion that Latreia or divine worship is due to the Crosse which in France and Germaâ—y is not so but some inferior kind of worship due thereunto And Navarrus the Casuist sayes
That at Rome no man may say that the Councel is above the Pope nor at Paris that the Pope is above the Councel In a word the Papists are at great odds but they cunningly conceale them insomuch as it is observed that some of them would say to their friends in privat Thus or thus I would say in the schooles and openly Sed maneat inâ—er nos diversum sentio but keepe my counsel I thinke the contrarie PA. We may haply be at ods in some Scholasticke points but not in matters defined by the Pope and a Generall Councel PRO. You would have us beleeve that at the sound of the Popâ—s sentence like frogs in a marish at the falling in of a great log or stone you are all hushed and silenced but it is not so for since the Trent decrees were published divers of your side are divided about the sense thereof iâ—somuch as they differ in the maine points thereof which in your account are fundamental and the deniers therof reputed Hereticks This may appeare by these instances The Pope in the Councels of Trent and Florence decreed the Apocrypha to bee Canonicall Scripture yet since that decree Driedo and Sixtus Senensis have called them in question and rejected them The Pope in the last Councelâ— is decreed to be above a Councel and yet since that time Alphonsus à Castro hath writ the contrarie The Trent Councel teacheth Sess. 6. Iustification by Inherent righteousnes condemning those that beleeve the imputation of Christs Righteousnesse and yet Albertus Pighius defendeth imputed â—ighteousnesse so doth Cardinal Contaren in his treatise of Iustification Again the Pope decreed against the certainty of grace salvation defining Sess. 6. that no man should beleeve these things of himselfe yet Catharinus defended the contrary holding that a man might have the certainty of Faith touching these thingsâ— and when the Trent Councels authority was objected against him he eluded it by divers sleight distinctions The truth is the Papists have a kind of unitie to wit a superstitious and hypocriticall crouching to the popes chayreâ— for so long as they agree to go to mass swear to the popes supremacy other things are tollerated although they coÌ„sent like harp harrow And surely were it not for the great profit and riches which knit the parts of this body together like twinnes that have different heads but tied together by the belly we should see this great body of the papacy would soon be divided scattered and dispersed Howsoever for any differences amongst the Protestants we may thankefully acknowledge that it was the wonderfull Providence of God that so many severall Countries Kingdomes and States abandoning the abuses of the Church or rather Court of Rome and making particular reformation in their owne dominions without generall meetings and consents should have no more nor greater differences than are found amongst them Object It is usuall with you in your Catalogue to say such and such as namely S. Bernard or the like taught for substance as you doe agreeing only with you in some fundamentall points but this will not serve to make them members of your Church for by the like reason the Quartadecimanes Novatians Donatists and Pelagians might pretend to the Catholike Church in as much as they agreed therewith in some fundamentall truths Answer 1 Agreement in one or more fundamentals maketh not a man a Catholike Christian tho disagreement in any one fundamentall joyned with obstinacie makes a man an Heretike 2 To make a man actually a member of the true Church more is required than agreement in the profession of the same fundamentall points of faith for not only heresie but schisme also excludeth a man from Communion with the true Catholike Church 3 Fundamentall points as well conceâ—ne life and manners as faith and he that impugneth the doctrine of the Decalogue is as well an Heretike as he that impugneth the doctrine of the Creed Nicholas directly impugned the one and by evident consequence the other by maintaining his impure communion or rather community of wives 4 The Quarta decimanes who kept Easter on the fourteenth day precisely were of two sorts Some as Polycrates and other Bishops of Asia kept it so meerely in imitation of S. Iohn the Evangelist and those were never condemned for Heretikes Others kept the fourteenth day by vertue of the Mosaicall Law and these by consequent destroyed the foundation as those did among the Galathians who urged Circumcision to whom S. Paul there professeth That Christ should not profit them and that they were fallen from grace 5 Novatians erred in a fundamentall point concerning Repentance and by consequent overthrew that Article of the Creed Credo remissionem peccatorum 6 The Donatists were rather Schismatikes than Heretikes and rather made a rent in the Church then were excluded from it Saint Austin in his seventh tome every where calleth it Schisma Donati in the end they grew to bee heretikes and denied in effect that fundamentall Article Credo Ecclesiam Catholicam 7 The Pelagians erred in divers fundamentall points concerning originall sinnâ— and the necessity of Grace For farther answer we say that the Authors we produce against the Romanists are of two sorts 1 Some we alleadge onely as Testes veritatis in such or such a point or points of faith 2 Others wee produce as members of our reformed Church and fore-runners of Luther Of the first sort is Bernard very orthodoxe in all points against the Pelagians but otherwise tainted and an open enemy to the Albigenses Of the second sort are the Waldenses Wicklifists and Hussites who as appeares by their confessions of faith extant in Orthuinus Gratius and the History of the Waldenses agree with uâ— in all Fundamentals not onely in some as the Heretikes above mentioned agreed with the Church Objection What though Saint Hierome Bernard and others agree with you in some generall truths men of contrarie religions may have divers materials of doctrine common to both now this is but a genericall agreement which is no more than the agreement betweene a man and a beast Answer 1 Saint Hierome and Bernard are not well rancked together Saint Hierome was a through Papist in no point Bernard was in some living in a corrupt age seaven hundred yeeres after Saint Hierome 2 Besides we answer that Waldo Wickliffe and Husse with others agree with us not onely Generically in the common grounds of Christianitie but Specifically in those formall points which we hold at this day against the Romane Church and as for such calumnies as are cast upon them they are already confuted in this treatise neither will any indifferent person regard them for when once that infamous name of Hereticke was fastned upon a man nothing was too heavie for such an one any thing was beleeved of that man and from thence it is without question that we find so many so absurd so senselesse opinions imputed to them
by the Romists such as indeede could not in truth with any possibilitie fall into the imagination or fancie of any man much lesse bee doctrinally or dogmatically delivered Besides many of the books and writings of Wickliffe and Husse are extant wherein are found no such doctrines as Papists have charged them with but rather the contrary So that we hope there is no indifferent person will regard their slanders for even at this day when things are in present view and action they calumniate the persons and falsifie the doctrine of our professours as grossely as ever Pagans traduced the Primitive Christians for instance sake they give it out that we hold that God regardeth not our good works whereas we beleeve that Good works are necessary to salvation and Works are said to be necessary for us unto salvation to wit not as a cause of our salvation but as a meane or way without which wee come not unto it as a Consequent following Iustification wherewith Regeneration is unseparably joyned In like sort they gave out that Beza recanted his Religion before his death whereas he lived to confute this shamelesse lye and with his owne hand wrote a tract which he called Beza Redivivus Beza Revived Thus also of late have they dealt with that Reverend zealous and learned Prelate Doctor King late Bishop of London giving it out in their idle Pamphlets that hee was reconciled to the Church of Rome which is unanswerably proved to bee a grosse lye for towards his death hee received the holy Sacrament at the hands of his Chapleine Doctor Cluet Arch-deacon of Middle-sex he received it together with his wife children and family whom he had invited to accompany him to that Feast whereof hee protested in the presence and hearing of divers personages of good note that his soule had greatly longed to eate that last Supper and to performe that last Christian duty before he left them and having received the Sacrament he gave thanks to God in all their hearing that he had lived to finish that blessed worke for so himselfe did call it And then drawing neerer to his end â—e expresly caused his Chapleine then his Ghostly Father to reade the Confession and absolution according to the ordinarie forme of Common prayer appointed in our Liâ—urgie Did this worthy Prelate now dye a Papist who to his last breath communicated with the Church of Eâ—gland Besides whereas Preston the Priest was given out to be the man that reconciled the Bishop to the See of Rome Preston as appeareth by his Examination and Answer taken before divers honourable Commissioners protested before God and upon his conscience as he should answer at the dreadfull day of Iudgement that the said Bishop of London did never confesse himselfe unto him nor ever received Sacramentall absolution at his hands nor was ever by him reconciled to the Church of Rome neither did renounce before him the Religion professed and established in the Church of England Yea he added farther that as he hoped to be saved by Christ Iesus he to his knowledge was never in company where the said Doctor King late Lord Bishop of London was neither did he ever receive letter from him nor did write letter unto him neither did he ever to his knowledge see the said Bishop in any place whatsoever nor could have knowne him from another man Object You have singled out some testimonies of Fathers Schoole-men and others and alleadged them on your owne behalfe as if they had thereby beene of your Religion whereas they be our witnesses and speake more fully for us than for your side Answer According to the Rule in law Testem queâ— quis inducit pro se teâ—etur recipere contra se you have produced them for your owne ends and now in reason you cannot disallow them when they are alleadged by us so that you must give us leave to examine your men upon crosse Interrogatories Besides one may be a materiall witnesse who speaks home to two or three Interrogatories although he cannot depose to all the rest It is no part of our meaning to take the scantling of our ancestors Religion from some single testimonies wherein they either agree with or dissent from us but fâ—om the maine body of the substantiall points of doctrine which are controverted betwixt us at this day Neither make wee any such simple collection Such a man held such a point with us therefore he was a Protestant no more then we allow them to frame the like Such a man in such or such a particular agreed with the nâ—w Church of Rome therefore he was a Papist For it followeth no more than this an Aethiopian or Tauny-moore is white in part namely in his teeth therefore he is white all over But our care hath beene that since In the mouth of two or three witnesses every word is established Deut. 19.15 and thaâ— as Hieâ—ome saith One single witnesse were it Cato himsâ—lfe is not so much to bee credited to joyne together the severall testimonieâ— oâ— such worthies as lived in the same age presuming that what some of note delivered and the same not opposed by their contemporaries that that is to bee supposed to have beene the doctrine commonly received in those countries and at that time Vpon these and the like considerations the Reader may bee pleased to rest satisfied with such passages as have beene produced on our behalfe though not so thronged and full in every age inasmuch as divers of our Ancestors have not left unto us sufficient evidence whereby it might appeare what they held in divers particulars Besides that there bee divers testimonies suppressed so as we can hardly come by them as namely in Faber Stapulensis his Preface to the Evangelists there is a notable place touching the Scriptures Suficiencie the words are these The Scripture sufficeth and is the onely Rule of eternall life whatsoever agâ—eeth not to it is not so necessary as superfluous The Primitive Church knew no other Rule but the Gospel no other Scope but Christ no other Worship than was due to the Individuall Trinity I would to God the forme of beleeving were fetched from the Primitive Church Thus saith Stapulâ—nsis Now this whole passagâ— is appointed by the Expurgatory Index of Spaine to be lâ—fâ— ouâ— in their later editions and yet by good hap I met with this passage in an edition aâ— Basâ—lâ— as also in anothâ—r at Colen An. 1541. In like sort I â—â—nd alleadged out of Luâ—ovicus Vives his Commentaries upon Saint Augustine dâ— Civitate Dei these passages following touching the Canon of the Scripture and the practised Adoration of Images in his time namely the same Vives saith that The storie of Susanna of Bel and the Dragon are not Canonicall Scripture he saith also that Saints are esteemed and worshipped by many as were the Gods among the Gentiles These places I carefully sought for in the severall editions of S. Austin
â—he private Masses and some also must be attributed to the very change of time it selfe as publicke prayers in an unknowne tongue in Italy France and Spaine for there a long time the Latine was commonly understood of all but when afterwards by the invasion of those barbarous nations the Goths and Vandals their speeches degenerated into those vulgar tongues that are now used there then the language not of the Service but of the people was altered so that upon the fall of the Empire learning began to decay and the publicke Service no longer to be understood by reason of the change of the vulgar tongues Lastly wee are able to show as appeares by the eighth Centurie of this treatise when and by whom corruption of doctrine hath beene brought in and how opposition hath beene made from time to time in case of the adversaries violent intrusion for instance sake for the space of sixe hundred yeares and more next after Christ the Catholicke doctrine of the Church of Rome was this that Images were not to be adored and this is witnessed by Gregorie the Great who allowed no use of Images but onely Historical for so he saith They are not set up to be worshipped but onely to instruct the people that be ignorant yea he speakes positively that The worshipping of Images is by all meanes to bee avoided Now this doctrine maintained by Gregorie the first was changed by Gregorie the second and third Adrian the first and second so that here we have taken them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with the manner to wit with doctrine novel and differing from their Ancestors and therefore need no farther examination But that the Reader may trace them along we find that this Innovation was resisted by three hundred thirtie eight Bishops at Constantinople in the yeare 754 and though afterwards it got strength at Nice was defended by Rome and at last got to bee a part of the Roman Faith yet was the same disliked denied opposed and resisted by all the good men that lived in that and aftertimes as Charles the Great the councel of Franckford Lewis his sonne the Synod of Paris Alcuinus and the Church of England PA. Will you charge our Religion with novelty can that bee called new which is of so long continuance PRO. Divers points of your Religion are confessed novelties your owne men yeeld that for Above a thousand yeares after Christ the Popes judgement was not esteemed infallible nor his authority above that of a Generall Councell the contrary being decreed in the late Councels of Constance and Basil that Not any one ancient Writer reckons precisely seven Sacraments the first Author that mentioneth that number being Peter Lombard and the first Councell that of Florence that in former ages for thirteene hundred yeares The holy Cup was administred to the Laity that divine service was celebrated for many ages in a knowne and vulgar language understood by the people that Transubstantiation was neither named nor made an Article of faith before the Councell of Lateran which was above twelve hundred yeares after Christ besides many more confessions of this kind which might bee produced Now that a thing may be novell though of long duration may appeare by this our Saviour when he would declare Pharisaicall Traditions to be Novelties did not respect their long continuance in the corrupt estate of the Church but saith Math. 19.8 Ab initio non fuit sic that they were not from the beginning delivered by God or practised by the Church so that if the duration and antiquity of your opinions be but humane that is not Apostolicall neither from Apostolicall grounds they may according to Tertullian be esteemed new and novelties for a point is new in Religion that did not proceed from God and his blessed spirit either interminâ—s or by deduction from his word that is the Ancient of dayes whatsoever pretences of duration and continuance may be supposed It remaineth then that that is new in Religion which is not most ancient so that if you cannot derive your Religion further then from some of the Fathers the tradition whereupon it is builded is then but humane and so a new thing even Noveltie it selfe And therefore Tertullian telleth us That is most true which is most ancient that most ancient which was from the beginning that from the beginning which was from the Apostles as if there were no truth in faith that was not from the beginning If Christ was alwayes and before all truth is a thing equally ancient and from all eternitie saith the same Father and therefore whatsoever savorâ—th against the truth this saith he is Heresie thoâ—gh it be of long continuance for there is no prescription of time that will hold plea against the Ancient of dayes and his truth I know that Pamelius in his notes upon Tertullian would ward off these testimonies by saying that Tertullian spoke thus When hee began to fall into the fancie of Montanus but be it so yet hee delivered some truths after hee lapsed into Montanisme besides Bellarmine for proofe of Monasticall vowes and veiling of Nunnes alleadgeth divers places out of the same treatise of Tertullians de Virginibus velandis of veiling of virgins and then belike Tertullian was no Montanist when Bellarmine for his advantage alleadged him PA. Our Religion Mr. Brerely is that good seed which Christ the good husbandman first sowed in his field Math. 13.24 yours is like the Tares which the enemy afterwards came and sowed among the wheate PRO. A great part of your Religion specially that which is controverted betwixt you and us and namely your Trent additionals and Traditionals was not sowne by the good husbandmen Christ and his Apostles but by the envious man by the craft of the man of sinne and his complices the sinnes of Christian men so requiring for as it is already observed erroneous doctrine it may be antiqua ancient but it cannot be prima that one truth and faith Ephes. 4.5 Which was once delivered to the Saints as S. Inde speakes and therefore is Christ the Husbandman first presented in the Parable as Seminans sowing good seed in his field before the Enemy is produced Reseminans resowing the same Acres with unprofitable graine Besides Religion is one thing and Reformation another the one presupposeth the other our reformation is of a later date our Religion is the old Religion coevall with the Primitive and Apostolike howsoever you taxe us with noveltie But the Disciple is not above his Master the Iewes could say to our Saviour What new doctrine is this and the Grecians to S. Paul May we not know what this new doctrine whereof thou speakest is but wee say in our just defence it is not wee that affâ—ct noveltie but it is you that counterfeit the face of Antiquity as the Gibeonites dealt with Ioshua deceiving him
such VVitnesses as are produced in thâ—â— Treatise for proofe of the PROTESTANTS Religion disposed according to the times wherein they flourished Witnesses produced in the first Age from Christs birth to 100 yeares CHRIST IESVS The twelve Apostles Saint Paul and the Churches of the Romanes and others Anno 63. Ioseph of Arimathea who brought Christianitie into Britaine 70. Dionysius Areopagita The Bookes that beare his Name seeme to bee written in the fourth or fifth Age after Christ. 100 Ignatius the Martyr In the second Age from 100 to 200. 150 Iustine Martyr 166 Hegesippus 169. The Church of Smyrna touching the Martyrdome of their Bishop Polycap 170 Melito Bishop of Sardys 177 Pope Eleutherius his Epistle to Lucius the first Christian King of Britaine 180 Polycrates of Ephesus and the Easterne Churches touching the keeping of Easter 180 Irenaeus Bishop of Lyons 200 Clemens Alexandrinus In the third Age from 200 to 300. 201 Tertullian 230 Origen 230 Minutius Felix 250 Cyprian Bishop of Carthage 300 Arnobius 300. Lactantius Anno 291 Amphibalus and his associates martyred in Britaine and Saint Alban ann 303. In the fourth Age from 300 to 400. 310 A Councill at Eliberis in Spaine 317 Constantine the Great 325 The first Generall Councill at Nice against the Arrians 330 Eusebius Bishop of Caesarea 337 Ephraim the Syrian 340 Athanasius Bishop of Alexandria 360 Hilarie Bishop of Poitiers 364 A Councill at Laodicea 370 Macarius the Aegyptian Monke 370 Cyril Bishop of Hierusalem 370 Optatus Bishop of Mela in Africke 370 Ambrose Bishop of Milain 370 Basil the Great Bishop of Caesarea 370 Gregorie Nazianzen 380 Gregory Nyssen Bishop of Nyssa in Cappadocia brother to Basil. 381 The second generall Councill at Constantinople where Macedonius was condemned 390 Epiphanius Bish. of Salamine in Cyprus In the fifth age from 400 to 500. 406 S. Chrysostome Bish. of Constantinople Andr. Rivet Critici sacri 415 S. Hierome idem 420 S. Augustinus 429 Palladius sent by Pope Celestine into Scotland and Germanus by the French Bishops into Britain to beat downe Pelagianisme 430 Vincentius Lirinensis wrote against the Pelagians and Nestorians 430 Cyril Bishop of Alexandria 430 Theodoret the Historian Bish. of Cyrene 431 The third generall Councill at Ephesus where Nestorius was condemned deprived 450 Leo the Great 451 The fourth generall Councill at Chalcedon where Dioscurus Eutyches were condeÌ„ned 490 Gelasius the Pope In the sixth age from 500 to 600. 520 Cassiodore Abbot of Ravenna 520 Fulgentius Bishop of Ruspa in Africke 529 A Councill at Aurange against Semi-Pelagians and Massilians 540 Iustus Orgelitanus claruit ann 540. Trithem de Scriptor Ecclesiast 545 Iunilius Episcopus Africanus 545 Primasius a Bishop of Africke Bellar. de Scriptor Ecclesiast 540 Rhemigius Bish. of Rhemes Andr. Rivet 553 The fifth generall Councili at Constantinople to confirme the Nicen Councill 560 Dracontius 580 Venantius Fortunatus Bish. of Poictiers a Poet and Historian 596 Augustine the Monke Mellitus and Laurence sent into Britaine by Pope Gregorie 596 The Britaines Faith 600 Columbanus or Saint Colme of Ireland In the seventh age from 600 to 700. 601 Greg. the First the Great placed by Bellar. in this seventh age Bell. de Script Eccles. 601 Hesych Bish. of Hierusalem Bellar. ibid. 630 â—sidore Bishop of Sevill Disciple to Gregorie the Great 635 Aidanus Bishop of Lindasferne or Holy Iland and Finanus his Successour 681 The sixth Generall Councill at Constantinople against the Monothelites who held that although Christ had two Natures yet hee had but one will In the eighth Age from 700 to 800. 720 Venerable Bede the Saxon. 740 Ioannes Damascenus 740 Antonius Author Melissae 754 A Council held at Constant. wherein were condemned Images and the worshipers of themâ— 768 Clement B. of Auxerre Disciple to Bede 787 The second Councill at Nice about restoring of Images 790 Alcuinus or Albinus an Englishman Disciple to Bede and Tutor to Charlemaigne this Alcuinus laid the foundation of the Vniversitie of Paris 794 A Councill at Frankford wherein was condemned the second Councill of Nice for approoving the worshipping of Images 800 Carolus Magnus and Libri Carolini In the ninth Age from 800 to 900. 815 Claudius Scotus 820 Claudius Taurinensis against Image-worship 824 A Councill at Paris about Images 830 Christianus Druthmarus the Monke of Corbey 830 Agobard Bishop of Lyons 840 Rabanus Maurus Bishop of Mentz Disciple to Alâ—win 840 Haymo Bishop of Halberstadt Cousin to Bede 840 Walafridus Strabus Abbot of Fulda Disciple to Rabanus hee collected the Ordinarie Glosse on the Bible Trithem de script Eccles. 861 Hulderick Bishop of Auspurge 862 Iohn Mallerosse the Scottish Divine or Ioannes Scotus Erigena hee was slaine by the Monkes of Malmsbury 860 Photius Patriarke of Constantinople he wrote the Nomo-Canon 876 Bertram a Monke and Priest of France 890 Rhemigius Monke of Auxerre hee wrote upon Saint Mathew 890 Ambrosius Ansbertus the French Monke In the tenth Age from 900 to 1000. 910 Radulphus Flaviacensis Monachus Bellarm quò suprà 950 Stephanus Eduensis Monachus Idem 950 Smaragdus the Abbot 975 Abbot Aelfrick and his Saxon Homily and his Saxon Treatise of the Old and New Testament both translated into English In the eleventh age from 1000 to 1100. 1007 Fulbert Bishop of Chartres 1050 Oecumenius 1050 Berengarius 1060 Radulphus Ardens 1070 Theophylact Archbish. of the Bulgarians 1080 Anselme Archbishop of Canterbury 1090 Hildebert Archbishop of Tours 1100 Anselmus Laudunensis Collector of the Interlinear Glosse In the twelfth age from 1100 to 1200. 1101 Zacharias Chrysopolitanus 1120 Rupertus Tuitiensis 1130 Hugo de Sancto Victore 1130 Bernardus Clarae-vallensis 1130 Peter Bruis and Henry of Tholouse 1140 Peter Lombard Master of the Sentences 1150 Petrus Cluniacensis 1158 Ioannes Sarisburiensis 1160 Petrus Blesensis Archdeacon of Bathe 1170 Gratianus 1170 Hildegard the Prophetesse Trithem 1195 Ioachimus Abbas 1200 Nicetas Choniates In the thirteenth Age from 1200 to 1300. 1206 Gul. Altissiodorensis 1215 Concil Lateranense Cuthb Tonstal Dunelm Episcop de eodem 1220 Honorius Augustodunensis Bellarm. 1230 Gulielmus Alvernus Parisiensis Episcopus 1230 Petrus de Vineis Trithem 1240 Alexander de Hales 1250 Gerardus and Dulcinus 1250 Hugo Cardinalis 1250 Robert Groute-head or Grosse-teste Bishop of Lincolne 1256 Gulielmus de Sancto Amore. 1260 Thomas Aquinas 1260 Bonaventura 1260 Arnoldus de Novâ villâ 1300 Ioannes Duns Scotus In the fourteenth age from 1300 to 1400. 1303 Barlaam the Monke and Nilus Archbishop of Thessalonica 1320 Gulielmus Ockam 1320 Nicol. de Lyra a converted Iew who commented on all the Bible 1320 Marsilius Patavinus 1320 Michael Cesena Trithem 1320 Dante 's 1320 Durandus de S. Portiano 1330 Alvarus Pelagius 1340 Iohannes de Rupe-scissâ Trithem 1340 Thomas Bradwardin 1343 The Kings of England oppose Papall Provisions and Appeales Anno 1391. 1350 Richardus Armachanus 1350 Robert Holcot the Englishman 1350 Francis Petrarch Bellarm. 1350 Taulerus a Preacher at Strasbrough Bellarm. 1370 Saint Bridgeâ— 1370 Iohn Wickliffe and