beat the path for al licenciousnes For although the scripture sayth he that committeth syn is of the Divil and we know that whosoever is borne of God synneth not but he that is begotten of God keepeth him self and that wicked one toucheth him not notwithstaÌ„ding men may be as prophane as Esau as filthy in life as Sodom as idolatrous and synful as the Aegyptians and Babylonians and yet if they wil but cal theÌ„selves Christians and be outwardly baptised they may be blamed in words and separated from by men but yet justified as Gods true Church they and their seed in his covenant of grace sealed with baptisme which is to remission of synns and what need they care for more Who wil feare his estate or amend his life for the doctrine of such men as pul down with the left hand build up with the right Is not this rather to strengthen the hands of the wicked that he should not return from his wickednes by promising him life Moreover this acknowledging al that profess Christ and are baptised to be true Churches having the true baptisme of God wil necessarily draw unto a general communion with al such societies wher men think actually no evil is committed as may fal out ofteÌ„ in the sermons of Friers Iesuits and other false Prophets for with true visible Churches and members of Christ who may not communicate so it be not in euil And thus Christians may come to that vanity coÌ„fusioÌ„ vvhich was among the Hethens of whom an ancient Doctor noteth that though they had infinite and contrary opinions about the Gods and their religion yet al of them kept communion togither in their Temples and sacrifices Wheras Mr. Ioh. referreth us to his first writings in answer to M. Iacob pag. 7. 13. and 47. as having then written somwhat tending this way which now he pleads for the Reader may see by comparing them how farr they differ There touching England he distinguisheth between their Church estate in respect wherof he is perswaded they cannot be judged true Christians and the personal estate of some considered apart from their Church constitution that they may wel be thought in regard of Gods election to be heyrs of salvation and in that respect true Christians so in pag. 13. 47. touching the Church of Rome and some Gods elect in it Although in pag. 146 he is perswaded whosoever lives dyes a Papist and member of that Church of Antichrist in the knowledge profession and maintenance of that religion in the parts therof can not of us be esteemed to live and dye in the estate of salvation Now what is that to his preseÌ„t plea for the Church baptisme of Rome but rather the contrary And for us we never disputed with any touching Gods elect which we leave unto himself who onely knovveth those that are his We deny not but ther may be of the elect in al false Churches even as Satan hath his reprobates in the true Churches I hold it presumption for any to limit God by how smal means or mesure of faith and knovvledge he vvil save a man Who dares deny but God had many elect among the Hethens after he had separated Israel from them Yea God expresly sayd vven he made Israel his peculiar people that yet al the earth was his vvhich are the vvords of the covenant generally Wherfore vve leave Gods secret counsels to himself as he vvilleth us and doe consider onely the visible state of Churches by the rules of Gods Lavv and promises Finally in that very book vvhich he mentioneth hovv sharply doth M. Iohns inveigh against his opposers and against M. Hooker that pleaded for the Church of Rome because of some truthes there reteyned saith that what by the Prelats and their Proctours on the one hand and the Pharisâ—ical dawbing reformists on the other all may justly fear least the end of that Church wil be to look back not onely in part but even wholly to the Romish Egipt and Sodom and to wollow agayn in the same myre from which they would seem al this time to have been washed When the Prelats and Reformists shal see what the same man now writeth himself for that Romish Egypt what wil they say but that even he also is come to dawb with them for company and fear a further fall Of their judgment of the Church of Rome translated out of M. Iunius To countenance their cause the more they set it out with the name and judgment of a learned man now deceassed Against whoÌ„ themselves wrote heretofore when they would have been loath to stand to his judgment But what wil not men doo for help in time of need The thing borrowed from him is in deed his own judgment rather then proof of argument I shal therfore the more breifly touch it yet not medling with the author who I hope is at rest in the Lord but with these his translators The Church of Rome wherof they treat is properly they say the company which is at Rome as Paul wrote Rom. 1. abusively it is al the Churches on earth cleaving to it and the doctrine constitution therof They treat of the first but would have men by proportion understand the same of the later I answer A Church ther was at Rome in Pauls time beloved of God caled Saints whose faith was published through the whole world A Church or peece rather of a Church ther is at Rome now loathed of God caled Divils whose whordoms abominations are famous through al the earth In deed and truth ther is a great Citie spiritually caled Sodom Aegypt and Babylon Rev. 11.8 16.19 dispersed over the world under the name of a Christian Catholik Church whose cheif place throne is Rome As for the congregation of Saints that was there in Pauls time it is gone long since and the Man of syn with his worshipers come in the place Between these two ther is no just proportion for what concord hath Christ with Belial 2 Cor. 6.15 The Church of Rome considered as a subiect they say hath 2. parts Pastours and the flock of Christ for which Church th'Apostle of old gave thanks to God Rom. 1 8. Neyther doo we deny this subiect to be at Rome eveÌ„ at this day because we trust ther is God caling persons caled the caling it self yet in her which togither in one giveth being to a Church I answer First I deny that God is there caling as in his Church but the man of syn sitts there as God calling all to worship him and his calling is by the working of Satan and in al deceivablenes of unrighteousnes among them that perish and the persons caled are deluded to beleev lyes 2 Thes. 2.9 10 11. Al these togither give being to Antichrists church but not to Christs And we are sure God caleth out of her such
children that dwel with their adulterous mother that is to abhorr her syn with speech and signe to cal her back from evil absteyn themselves from it and in al things cleav to their father betake theÌ„selves into his closet c. I answer thus it appeareth that these our opposites are returned to acknowledge the whore of Rome to be their mother whom they feign to be as woman which lyeth in a deadly sort swollen with waters of the dropsie or with poison which had long agoe given up the ghost if God by the imposition of his grace c. had not nourished and kept her warm Now to leav their mother thus on her sick bed as they have doon disclayming al Christian dutie unto her which is due to a true Church in corruption is but the part of unnatural children Whiles God dooth nourish keep her warm wil they quite abandon her let them return and cherish her also and al her members and see if ther be any baulm to heal her wounds and to comfort her As for us we have been taught of God that in respect of him she is dead long agoe in her syns Rev. 20.5 with Ephes. 2.1 having been the marked whore worshiper of the Beast from which death she is not risen to live reign with Christ. Although to this world she liveth and reigneth in pleasure til at one day death otherwise also come upon her she be burnt with fire Rev. 18.7.8 And then shal we be so far from mourning at her funeral as we shal rejoyce with the heavenly multitude and sing Hallelujah when God hath given Sodoms judgment on her and we see her smoke rise up for evermore Rev. 19 1.2.3 Finally to back M. Iunius judgment they cite Amandus Polanus Bart. Keckerman who sayd that Antichrist shal sit in the temple of God not Jewish but Christian c. and as a rotten apple is an apple but corrupt so that Church is corrupt c. I answer they may I confess cite diverse men that were mistaken in judging of that rotten church which wil help these our opposites nothing who have seen and acknowledged better now goe back Bernard was a learned man in his time and is counted a Sainct and he playnly reproved many Romish abominations and sayd the beast in the Revelation which hath a mouth speaking blasphemies occupieth Peters chaire yet himself doted overmuch upoÌ„ the bewty of that harlot when he wrote thus at an other time to her Leman the Pope Thou art the great sacrificer the cheif Preist thou art Prince of Bishops heyr of th'Apostles thou art in primacie Abel in government Noah in patriarchship Abraham in order Melchisedek in dignity Aaron in authoritie Moses in judgship Samuel in power Peter in anoynting Christ. It is not therfore to be marveiled at though wise godly men be mistaken for in many things we syn all Jam. 3 2. But I have shewed how the scriptures doo judge of this sorceress and could also allege many learned mens judgements but I wil goe no further then our own country Mr Cartwright speaking of the baptising of children sayth Jf both parents be Papists or condemned heretiks c. their children cannot be received to baptisme because they are not in the covenant c. And agayn Jf the corruption be such as destroyeth the foundations as in the Arians which overthrow the person of Christ as in the Papists which overthrow the office of Christ they being no Church ought to have no priviledge of the church Mr Perkins writeth thus As for th'Assemblies of Papists understanding companies of men holding the Pope for their head and beleeving the doctrine of the council of Trent in name they ar caled Churches but in deed they are no true or sound members of the catholik church for both in their doctrine in their worship of God they rase the very fouÌ„datioÌ„ of religioÌ„ And agayn Jt is no more a church in deed then the carkesâ— of a dead man that weareth a living mans garment is a living man though he look never so like him And agayn he hath a treatise and Assertion that A reprobate may in truth be made partaker of all that is conteyned in the religion of the church of Rome and a Papist by his religion cannot goe beyond a reprobate and bringeth 4. arguments for proof hereof and endeth with this Corolarie that A man being indued with no more grace then that which he may obteyn by the religion of the Church of Rome is stil in the state of damnation D. Fulk answering the counterfeit Catholik saith Jt is evident that the true Church decayed immediatly after the Apostles times and telleth the Papist yow cry the Catholik Church the Catholik Church when yow have nothing in deed but the Synagogue of Sathan Agayn The Church of Antichrist is founded upon 7 hills Rev. 17. upon the traditions dreames fantasies and devises of men c. Therfore sayth he in no wise may she be called the city of God but Babylon the mother of fornication Sodom Aegypt where our Lord is dayly crucified in his members D. Willet answering Bellarmin sayth We deny utterly that they are a true visible Church of Christ but an Antichristian Church and an assembly of Heretiks enemies to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Agayn he sayth 2. Thes. 2. he shal sit in the temple of God that is the visible Church that which sometime was the true visible Church as the Church of Rome and after should be so takâ—n reputed and chalenged as it is at this day by the Papists c. He shal sit in the Temple of God that is take upon him the name title of the Church and yet an adversary unto it And agayn The Turk is out of the Church and so in truth is the Pope but yet he challengeth to him and his the name of the Church M. Bale compareth the Pope and Turk togither thus So glorious are the pretenses of Romish Pope Mahomet that they seem unto them which regard not these warnings the very Angels of light and their Churches most holy congregations being very divels with the very dregs of darknes The Pope in his Church hath ceremonies without number none end is there of their babling prayers their portases bedes temples altars songs howrs bells images organs ornaments Iewels lights oilings shavings c. that a man would think they were proctours of paradise On the other side Mahomet in his Church is plenteous also in holy observations they wash themselves oft frequent their temples pray 5. tymes in the day they reverently incline they lye prostrate on the ground they fervently cal to God they absteyn from wine they abhor idols c. But unto what end this holynes leadeth the sequel declareth Daniel maketh these two but one because they are both of one
be delivered to Satan and cast out frō among them verse 4.5.13 he did not purpose that the Elders should deliver and cast him out publikly the people privately all being gathered togither for that busines When he would have them purge out the old leven that they might keep the passover with unleavened bread verse 7.8 he meant not that the Ministers should purge the leven and keep the feast publikly the church privately neyther did the type of the Passover in Israel teach them such a thing No nor the judging of malefactors in Israel for when the Magistrates gave sentence of death and the people stoned wicked persons at the gates of the cities the rulers fact was not then publik and the peoples private the scripture teacheth us not thus to distinguish nor reason it self but that the execution was a part of the publik judgement The Apostle writeth in 1. Cor. 5. to all the Church blaming their neglect of the Censure even as in 1. Cor. 11. he writeth to al reproving their abuse in the Lords supper Wherfore if mē wil they may misapply this distinctiō to all church actiōs as to Sacramēts prayers election of officers and the like making them publik in the Elders and private in the church or people and so as the Papists doo also in other cases give all lay men but a private spirit as they use to speak and the ministers onely a publik We find not that Christian people are more excluded from being publik members of the body and actors with their ministers in the Kingdom of Christ then they are in the Preisthood and prophesie And we know no reason why the Pastor himself if he consent not with the Church in casting out such an incestuous person may not be sayd to have a private judgment as wel as an other man But by such popish distinctions the clergie were severed from the laitie and so the people by degrees turned out of al. And what now doo these our Opposits allow the people if they see their Elders to corrupt judgment therfore doo dissent frō thē they make it but the dissent of particular persons judgment from the publik of what sexe or condition soever they be the Christian Magistrate when he is a member of the Church not excepted touching ecclesiastical proceedings and it is to be regarded they say as there shal be cause they mean I trow as the Elders themselves shall see cause And so if a church have 3. or 4. officers and they corrupted with heresie or other vice the whole congregation of people of what condition soever any persons be can pass no publik ecclesiastical judgment upon them by this doctrine as for their private judgement or censure the Elders themselves wil regard it as there shal be cause If this be not a Prelacie which the Elders would usurp I know not what is But of these things see after in this Treatise pag. 22 23. 3. Come wee to reproches disgracings of the truth and way of God and wee shall see among the Papists how they disdeyn that the people should medle in matters of religion and judging of controversies They complayn of them for their ignorance unrulynes disobedience unto government they say the Protestants reason as Chore Dathan and Abyram did Nū 16. when they rebelled against Moses Aaron the Ministers of God saying that there needeth here in the Church no head to govern it because Christ is alwayes with it And did not those wicked men sayth the Papist in their rebelliō against Moses Arō vse the same reasō when they told thē to their face let it suffice you that al the multitude is holy they have God present with thē And why then take you upō your selves the rule over the people of our Lord As who would say having no need of any other ruler God being with them c. The very same reproches doo our Opposites now cast upon us advancing the Elders disgracing the people by intimating their simplicity errour charging us as oppugners of government and abusing against vs the example of Corah Dathā and Abiram as we have often heard with greif telling us we goe upon their grounds and the like For which we wish they may find repentance and mercy with the Lord least he turn the evil upon their own heads as Moses then did upon the Levites For unto them it seemed a smal thing that the God of Israel had separated them from the multitude of Israel to take them neer unto himself to doo the service of the Tabernacle to stand before the Congregatiō and to minister vnto them but they sought the office of the Preist also so these our opposers are not contēt with their office to be separated unto the gospel of God to stand and minister before and unto the Congregation but wil needs be the Congregation it self and take more authoritie then is given them from heaven wherof see after in this book pag. 17.21.22.23 c. 4. What enmitie and persecution the Papists have raysed against the withstanders of their heresies I need not speak al nations have felt of their cruelty Neyther would I here mention our opposite brethrens hard measure to us but that themselves have printed and seek to defend it cease not stil to prosecute their purposes against us Although themselves have lately professed practised publikly mainteyned the truthes which now they oppugn and persecute and bringing innovation into the Church would needs obtrude their errours upon our consciences eyther in judgment or in practise or in both Yea breaking the peace which thēselves had devised agreed unto and confirmed because their brethren would not agree to the undoing of themselves and their families for the satisfying of their wills as is after manifested in this treatise pag. 123 c. If the Lord should reward them according to their works herein towards us their account wil be heavy but my prayer shal be against their evils 5. Wheras many Treatises have been written in defense of the truthes we mainteyn these our Opposers answer them not neyther yet are they silent nor wil give rest unto others but urge aad provoke more writing stil. For the Churches power now in controversie our Apologie bringeth nine reasons these have answered onely one of them which is the sixt drawn from Mat. 18.17 all the other they let stand And yet what clamours have we heard because their exceptions against that one are not by us refuted So in our other articles of differences the scriptures and reasons set down in our Apologie and other books they pass by without answer If they can make any colourable exception they spare it not otherwise for want of argument they fall to asking of questions seeking if they can to insnare us Of which things the reader may see after in this book pag. 45 c. 51. c. 59 c. 23
yet in Davids Kingdom and Levies preisthood ther was a figure also of the kingdom and preisthood that Christ bestoweth on the saincts Who have as much more power and libertie in the Gospel now than the Iewes had as the heyr when he is of yeres hath more then in his childhood Gal 4.1.2.3 yet alwayes in order and with submission to the ministerial goverment of their Leaders And I ask of these agayn whither the Christian Magistrates now are not to have their voices with the ministers of the church wherof they are in the admonishing censuring of synners ecclesiastically and in other publik questions and controversies of religion 3. Thirdly they ask Whether the people of Jsrael were not Kings and Preists c. as wel as the Christian people are now Exod. 19.5 Psal. 149.1 c. with 1. Pet. 2.9.10 Rev. 1.6 I answer first as touching the coÌ„munication of their external kingdom and preisthood it is evident that the Israelites were not so the natural seed of David of Levi as Christians now are the spiritual seed of them in Christ Jer. 33 22. Secondly for communication with the spiritual kingdom and preisthood of Christ by them shadowed the Israelites were Kings and Preists as well as we but with differences For Israels state and ours are not simply opposed yet doo they differ in manner degree They were Kings and Preists as they were Christians and partakers of the Anoynting and that is as they were under the nevv Testament But they were not so under it as we are neyther are we so under the old Testament as were they They were heyres of the heavenly things but as children and so as Paul sayth under tutors and governours in servitude under the rudiments of the world until the time appointed of the Father that is until Christs comming The scriptures which they quote doo confirm this For the promise in Exodus 19.5.6 is legal if they kept Gods covenant as in another place if they did his statutes they should live by them which Paul sheweth to be a speech of the law not of the gospel Now that condition Israel kept not neyther could therfore not the law but Christ hath made us Kings and Preists Rev. 1.5.6 and until Christ came Israel was kept under the law as under a scholemaster had an external preisthood which could give them no perfection and therfore is abolished and our state much bettered as is shewed at large Heb. 12.18 19 20.21 22. c. as the prophets also foretold Jsa 61 5 6. Jer. 33 15. 22. Mal. 3.3.4 of this estate under the gospel is the 149. psalm a prophesie though in their mesure they then also fulfilled it and the place of Peter confirmeth it Whereunto we may add the testimonie of the Iewes Rabbies touching their estate vnder that scholemaster of the law With three crownes say they was Jsrael crowned with the the crown of the law and the crown of the preisthood and the crown of the kingdom The crown of the preisthood was bestowed upon Aaron and his seed Num. 25.13 The crown of the kingdom was bestowed on David and his seed Ps. 89.36 The crown of the law loe it is appointed stablished and confirmed unto all Jsrael as it is written Moses coÌ„manded vs a law the inheritance of the congregation of Jaâ—kob In that they al had the law to use so freely were so restreyned froÌ„ the kingdom Preisthood it argueth their childhood yet might they see by faith their inheritance in those types how all Christians should by participation of Christs anoynting be that seed of David and of Levi promised Jer. 33.22 Rev. 5.9.10 20 6. And here I also ask of our opposers whither the Ministers of the Gospel be Kings and Preists now by their office of ministery in the Church 4. Fourthly they ask whether the Churches power be not a ministerial power onely I answer the power it self is Christs and so royal or kingly but al that the Church dooth is onely to administer that power under Christ. And I ask of them agayn whether they think the Elders have the whole power which Christ hath given to his Church 5. Fiftly they ask whether the Elders power be not ministerial under the Lord in and for the Church c. I answer an ambiguous question cannot be answered til it be cleared First this word power is large and they must shew how they limit it for by comparing this question with the former they seem to put al the Churches power into the ministers hand which I deny They have also misshapen the proportion of their power from the Magistrates of Israel as before we have heard contrary to Christs commandement Mat. 20 25 26. 1. Pet. 5.3 Secondly the vvord ministerial is also diversly used in a special sense the Officers onely are caled Ministers in a general sense the whole Church are Ministers and doo administer and dispose the manifold graces of God the word Cohen Preist given to all saincts dooth properly signify a Minister Thirdly for the Elders function I grant it to be ministerial under the Lord in and for the Church but also unto yea and under the Church secondarily as the spowse of Christ in that sense that Paul speaketh the spirits of the Prophets are subiect to the Prophets 1. Cor. 14 32. And I ask of them agayn whether the Ministers of the Christian synagogues now have any more authoritie then had the Ministers in the Iewes synagogues or then they to whom it was sayd Serv the Lord your God his people Jsrael 2. Chron. 35 3. Ezek. 44.11 But here before they have our answer they conclude that therfore ther is no weight in our obiections about the Elders power as if it were not the churches c. I answer first they conclude not the question set down in the article but because it was too heavy they leav it and turn to other matters Secondly they conclude with an aequivocation in this word power which is not in the same sense to be applied to the Elders as it is to the body of the Church Thirdly the Iesuites doo in this wise conclude also for the Pope For the power government vvhich they dispute for is not absolute but such they say as may be in ministers and stewards 1. Cor. 4 1. And that the povver vvhich the Pope and prelates execute should be the Churches povver it is the thing that they vvould have So vvheras our opposites tel us of the Elders power that in deed it is the Churches the papists also tel us the same but the more is their syn that deprive the Church of it by ingrossing it into their own hands alone thus did the Pope clime by steps unto his primacie And it is say they to be ministred by the Officers but not say I by them onely therin is the
beast so commended unto us by these men as doon in the name of the Lord. And as for the Office of ministerie to which they say now it is given M. Iohnson himself haâ—h set down heretofore 33. reasons and differences proving by many scriptures that the popish preists office is not the Christian Pastors office Yea he affirmed the hierarchie of Antichrist to be the most detestable anarchie of Satan that ever was and what now wil imposition of sacrilegious hands in the name of the Lord doo good unto such a detestable ministery 4. Fourthly they say they find not precept example or ground in scripture binding them to the repetition of that ordination I answer it is very true no scripture bindeth men to repete or doo agayn such abominations And we pray them shew us where is there precept example or ground to keep the preisthood and indeleble character of Antichrist But be it as they say what then wil become of their own Ministery for some of them have both received given vnto others reordination are they not in as evil case by their own grounds as the Anabaptists with their rebaptisation They unjustly insinuate Anabaptistrie against us very often but themselves are in like actual transgression with the Anabaptists if their doctrine be true and yet manifest not their repentance nor tel us by vertue of which ordination they doo now administer 5. Fiftly they say the Preists and Levites in Jsrael being clensed of their vncleannes reteyned stil their places and their children after them did minister without a new anoynting or new imposition of hands c. I answer then belike the Romish preists must keep their Antichristian preisthood still for so the Preists in Israel did theirs Otherweise if they must have a new office how can they doo it by their old ordination Even in Rome it self when a Preist is promoted to a Bishops office he is new anoynted both hands head the holy Ghost agayn given him the pastoral staff the ring the Gospel is also given him to goe preach to the people committed to him c. and he hath a new imposition of hands besides that he had before 2. If the Preists children caled of God did in Israel minister without imposition of hands upon them at al as they suppose yet this wil make nothing for Antichrists hierarchie caled of the Divil with greasing shaving imposing of hands to sacrifice blasphemously for the quick and dead that they should now minister by vertue of this office and calling in the Church of Christ. Neyther might Baals Preists or Chemarims administer in Gods temple Their reason therfore from the Lords own Ministerie is altogither unfit the hethenish Flamins or Druides are fitter matches for Belials clergie And this M. Iohnson himself acknowledged when he wrote against M. Hilderdersh thus Jf Jupiters Preist Act. 14.13 or if Mahumets Preists now in Turkye should by the lawes of their nations be injoyned and therupon should execute the Ministerie of Gods word sacraments and censures would it follow therfore that such Preists had the substance of the Pastors office And why then should this Preisthood of Antichrist have more privilege then those seing the word of God hath layd this duty no more vpon it then upon the other but hath left them al with their followers and adherents under the curse Psal. 119 21 128. Rev. 9 3. 14.9 10 11. Thus he then wrote but now we find an other maner of plea. 6. Sixtly they say That they find in scripture some officers admitted with it some without it This I find not They allege Act. 13.1.2.3 where Paul and Barnabas had it It is true yea Paul had imposition of hands twise Act. 9.17 13.3 but where is the scripture that sayth some had it not They say we read not that the other Apostles had what then dooth this proov they had it not So we may also conclude the other Apostles were never baptised for we read not that they were We read not say the Anabaptists that children were baptised in the Apostles dayes wil these men now conclude therfore they were not baptised But doo not they know that arguments thus drawn negatively from scripture are generally blamed for insufficient 7. Seventhly they say that some churches hold it not of necessity to be had c. I answer that is nothing to such as hold it and have Elders to doo it But they diminish the state of the question for when the Apostle speaketh of Jmposition of hands Heb. 6.2 dooth he mean the outward ceremonie onely or the doctrine of the ministerie caling ordination signified by the sign I hope the reformed churches deny no principle of religion such as that is So in this case spoken of were it onely the outward signe I would not contend But they compare the baptism of Rome and the Ministerie of Rome togither no new baptising into the church therfore no new ordeyning unto the ministerie but as al come out of the Apostasie baptised Christians so some doo come ordeyned ministers Wherfore if these be alike they bring with them in their account the substance of a true office and of a true caling Otherweise if a new office and caling be given them I assure my self they that say Receiv the Teachers office c. may impose hands even as they that say J baptise thee into the name of the Father c may put on water Now these mens testimonie heretofore hath been strong against the Office or ministerie it self with the caling administration c. And now let them shew by the word that a new caling into a new office which men had not before may be by the ordination or imposition of hands given by Antichrist unto a false office with a false calling 8. Thus say they we shew our keeping of coÌ„munion with all other churches c. I answer this reason is good if communion be kept in the light not in darknes let Gods word therfore try the case Yet let these men say whither they know not that the ministers made in these reformed churches are not admitted in Engl. without a new ordination by the Prelates And that al Scholars admitted into Geneva must expressly detest the Popish hierarchie so caled as a Divilish confusion which hierarchie consisteth of Bishops Preists and Ministers and they that say it is not by divine ordination are by the Council of Trent accursed Is not here good communion Yea let me further tel them how the learned and better sort in England have disclaymed coÌ„munion with that Romish clergie D. Fulk in the Answ. of a true Christian to a counterfeyt catholik sayth Although al godly men wish more severitie of discipline to be used in receiving them that come out of heresies to serv in the Church then is commonly practised in England yet you are highly deceived if you think we esteem your offices of
Bishops Preists Deacons any better then the state of lay men but farr worse for we judge them to be nothing ells but Antichristianitie heresie and blasphemie And therfore we receiv none of them to minister in our church except they forswear your religion and so their admission is not an allowing of your ordering but a new caling unto the Ministerie Thus wrote M. Fulk but now these our opposites to shew how they would keep coÌ„munion with Rome allow of their ordering as of their baptising which they plead to be true baptisme as after shall appear Yet let them shew us whither al the hierarchie of Antichrist as Popes Cardinals Archbishops Bishops Friers Monks Iesuits Seminaries Preists Parsons Vicars with the rest of that crew be all of them to be admitted true Ministers into a Christian church by vertue of the Imposition of hands had in that kingdom of the Beast and if not al which of them must be reordeyned and vvhich not Themselves have acknowledged that the Ministers of Antichrist are the spirits of Divils Rev. 16 13.14 let them now if they can manifest them to be the Ministers of Christ. 9. We thought best say they to stay and consider further c. if we find it ought to be doon we can doe it at any time c. Then say I they should have stayed the practise of admitting such a teacher to administer til they had been resolved whither his office and ordination had been of God or no. But first they let him administer then they inquire of the lawfulnes the Godly heretofore did not so in a case of doubt but stayed the administration of some preists til they had assurance from God Ezr. 2.62.63 10. The church say they did chuse him into office and we by prayer commended him to God for his grace and assistance in the ministration therof Which we did without imposition of hands at that time as both our selves had before doon at our first growing into order and as the French and Dutch churches also did c. I answer things are darkly set down by saying first the church did then and we they occasion us to ask what church they mean their own particular or some other If their own whether they chose him to an office that had none before or chose him from a false office to a true or chose him being already a true officer to be theirs as they admitt the members of an other Church to be a member of theirs by prayer If the last were not how stands their comparison between baptism ordination If they did so then they abuse the reader with the example of their own ordination before For they had renounced their former Ministerie as false and received a new by the election and ordination of the people though at the first without that sign spokeÌ„ of who gave them a ministerie which they never had The outward sign at that time was not used onely because ther were not Elders before now ther were Elders which imposed hands at the same time on others It is a known fallacie to pretend that for a cause which is not the cause Moreover let them say whither theiâ— Teachers former election were not as holy as his ordination and why then they repâ—te one and not an other 11. Observ say they how these and their partakers can hold that the people having no office may excoÌ„municate and some of them that they may also minister the sacraments and yet can except against such as are in office if they doo but make question of a ceremonie c. I answer the first wee hold but as themselves heretofore did upon what ground they have left it is before discussed The second as touching us so farr as I know is a slander a mere untruth I know not one among us that holdeth men without office may minister the sacraments The third if it be as they say a question but of a ceremonie and not of the very substance of the ministerie to be reteyned as their baptisme I wil profess to cease striving thereabout though I think they err in it yea and repent that I have striven so farr But if it be in deed more then a ceremonie as I suppose the things forespoken wil manifest let these men take heed how they so dissemble for Woe vnto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord. Of the Anabaptists objections we have spoken before And now let him that readeth consider what weight ther is in their later thoughts compared with their former judgments confirmed by so many reasons as the publik writings shew Let him also note how for this later point which they count but a ceremonie they say many things as we have heard but for the former their own ministerie which is a matter of substance and most neerly concerns them they say nothing but turn aside as if they saw it not And for this also let the reader observ Mr Iohnsons own words in answer to Mr HildershaÌ„ who can bring a clean thing out of filthynes Is it possible that a lawful ordination should be had from the ministers Apostasie of Antichrist Mat. 7.16 2. Cor. 6 14 15 16. with 2. Thes. 2.3 And if he be loth to stand to his former assertions let him yet shew what comfort or assuraÌ„ce any can have of the ordination in the Papacie that it is froÌ„ heaveÌ„ considering the Preists have their authoritie from the Bishops the Bishops from the Pope the Popes as their own writers Chroniclers doo record have been divided by schismes 2 or 3 Popes at once one cursing and condemning another and among the successors one repealing the acts of an other And among the rest one shee Pope Ioan an harlot And among many schismes one which was the 22. dured fourtie yeres wherin the Antipopes so rent their Babel-church into factions that the cheifest and learnedest of the clergie could not discern which of them was the true successor of Peter as they use to speak but some clave to one Pope some to another Had these noâ— power from Christ to make ministers in his church or are not they strangely caried that had rather derive their Ministerie by uncertayn succession froÌ„ such beasts then from the Lords true Church and people And may we think that when God bring the Iewes agayn to the fayth as he hath promised that they wil goe to Antichrists throne for to erect a ministerie for them These and the like things considered may shew what soundnes is in their doctrine and practise that fetch their ordination from Rome as they doo their baptisme Finally let me admonish the reader that The man of syn who boasteth himself to be the Bishop of the whole world as also to have the Princedom or soveraygntie of al the world and may not onely order and degrade preists but set up and depose Princes so exalting himself above
Ministerie though with corruptions how wil they be able to bear out such as are excoÌ„municated for so great contempt and errour 3. Thirdly as Antichristians doo excoÌ„municate such as they should not so doo they baptise such as they ought not even open impenitent Idolaters and their seed the generation of Vipers which Iohn Baptist would refuse Yea Mr Iohnson himself hath sayd of a better estate then Romes that Gods covenant is sacrilegiously violated whiles it is sayd to the open wicked in delivering them the seals of Gods covenant Thou art righteous Therfore if the Popes excoÌ„municatorie bulls are but bubbles because they are unjustly executed his baptisme also will be found but a fiction no true seal of salvation to such as receive it of him Finally touching circumcision I think it cannot be manifested that any people 's fallen from God and his Church using it colourablie for a religious action as al Antichristians and heretiks doo baptism at this day did or were bound to cutt their foreskin the second time if they came unto the truth of God as for example the Colchians Aegyptians and Aethiopians whom histories mentioÌ„ to be circumcised or the Samaritans whom Mr Iohnson acknowledgeth to have stil vsed circumcision Hereunto we may add out of the Iewish records how they hold that Al have leav to circumcise yea though it be an uncircumcised person or a servant or a woman or a child circumcising in the place where ther is no man But an hethen may not circumcise at al yet if he doo circumcise ther is no need to return circumcise the second time If this rule stand we shal not need to repeat our outward washing in baptism though given us by Antichrist or any other aliants from the church covenant of promise Of the Church of Rome The Church of Rome being acknowledged by al that fear God to be the throne of Antichrist Mr Iohnson himself having professed that the hierachie and Church-constitution of Antichrist is the most detestable anarchie of Satan that ever was yet imitating now M. Gifford M. Bernard and other professed enemies of the truth he pleads for that Church after this manner The Apostle expressly teacheth that Antichrist should sit in the Temple of God 2. Thes. 2 4. And by the Temple understanding the Church of God it wil folow that Antichrist should sit in the Church of God and is there to be sought and found and not among Jewes Turks Pagans c. neyther that Antichrist takes away wholly the church of God and every truth and ordinance of the Lord c. I answer truth errour are closely couched togither in this their plea for the discerning wherof we are to consider first how Antichrists church is described in Gods word secondly what the state of the church of Rome is at this day The Antichristian synagogue is by the holy Ghost caled a Beast which signifyeth a kingdom it is named also a great citie which noteth the largenes of that politie and kingdom It cometh up out of the earth as being of this world which Christs kingdom that coÌ„meth down from heaven is not and therfore is caled a man of syn and a great whore whose head is Abaddon or Apollyon the destroyer of others and himself the son of perdition and they that follow him are the children of damnation This wicked generation warreth against the Lamb Christ and against the saincts blasphemeth Gods name tabernacle and them that dwel in heaven â—hat is the true Church whose conversation is heavenly Yet doo they all this mischeif under shew of Christian religion therfore this beast hath horns like the Lamb Christ this whore is arayed with purple skarlet guilded with gold precious stones and pearles as if she were the Queen and spowse of Christ she hath peace offrings Vovves as if she were devowt in Gods service bread and waters as ready to refresh the weary sowls Her doctrines sweet amiable lyeâ— spoken in hypocrisie but yet confirmed with signes and miracles as if they came from heaven her power and efficacie great prevayling over the many and the mighty the Kings Princes of world deceiving al nations with her inchantments and if it were possible Gods very elect her continuance and outward prosperitie long her end miserable consumed with the spirit of the Lords mouth and abolished with the brightnes of his coÌ„ming and for her destruction the heavens shall rejoyce and sing praises to God Now for to find the accomplishment of these things we are directed by the now Romish religion to a Catholik or Vniversal church one part wherof lives on earth an other under the earth and a third part in heaven 1. On earth is the whole multitude of such as are named Christians through the world united as a catholik body under one visible head the Pope who with his 2 horns like the Lamb pretendeth to be Christs Vicar in the Kingdom Preisthood and is professed of his vassals to be that triâ—d precious corner stone that sure foundation in Sion Jsa 28.16 and it is declared defined and pronounced that it is of necessity to salvation for al men to be subject unto him Vnder this Captain are three bands of souldiers the first clergie men as Bishops Preists Deacons Subdeacons and the rest of those shavelings the second Lay men as Kings Pinces Nobles Citizens and Commons of al sorts and vocations the third sort is both of the Clergie and Laitie caled Monks or Regulars 2. Vnder the earth or in Purgatorie fyre are the sowles they say of al such as dye with venial synns whose payns are to be holpen by prayers and masses sayd for them by such as are alive on earth 3. In heaven are the sowls of men departed in the popish fayth and delivered from purgatorie some of which the Pope canonizeth for Saincts whom the people on earth are religiously to honour and pray unto as their mediators with God This church on earth cannot err in things which it commandeth men to beleev oâ— doo whither they be expressed in scripture or not therfore men must beleev in her and trust her in al things for the truth of the faith as touching us relyeth upon her authoritie and she hath power to make lawes which doo bind and constreyn mens consciences These things premissed I come to our Opposites arguments Their first reason from 2. Thes. 2.4 is unperfectly alledged for the text there sayth of the man of syn that he dooth sit as God in the TeÌ„ple of God wherupon their conclusion must be that Antichrist sitteth as God in the church of God And if they can prove that he is the true God I wil yeild that his temple is the true temple his Church the true
himself wrote heretofore against M. Iakob J would know of yow sayth he who are so deep a clerk how Antichrists church and religion should justly be accounted a mysterie of iniquitie and truly be sayd to speak lyes in hypocrisie also privily to bring in damnable heresies and to have a shew of Godlynes if they did so absolutely and wholly depart from the faith and not onely from some points therof c. Fourthly they allege Rev. 18.4 Goe out of her my people c. which words they say imply the covenant of God continued among them I answer these very words are taken from Jer. 51.45 My people goe out of the midds of her where by my people the Church of Babylon is not meant but the Israelites Gods lost sheep scattred there upon the mountains and hills whom first the King of Ashur had devoured lastly Nebuchadnezar King of Babel had broken their bones having burned Ierusalem and the Temple with fyre broken down the citie walls imprisoned their King in Babylon captived the Princes people and caried the vessels of the Lords house into Babylon so that now Israel was without Temple without kingdom without politie or cōmon wealth of their own onely the Lord himself was a Sanctuarie or Temple to the faithful there dispersed and their holy vessels were caried into the Temple and treasurie of Nebuchadnezars God And these Israelites figuring Gods elect are caled out of Babylon which God would utterly destroy make desolate for ever And thus from Antichrists church which is Babylon Aegypt Sodom are Gods elect caled out a most evident proof that she is none of Gods church what soever she pretendeth any more than the idolatrous hethens whom she matcheth in filthines of whordoms and multitude of abominations Gods covenant of grace is not therfore with her at al for she is appointed to damnation but the elect that obey Gods voice caling them out of her them he wil receiv into covenant he wil be a Father unto them and they shal be his sonns and daughters as he hath promised Fiftly they add And so Jsrael is often caled the Lords people in the time of their Apostasie 2. King 9.6 13.23 2. Chron. 30.6 9. c· I answer they prove not the Question for first the Antichristian church is Babylon and out of her that is Babylon are Gods people caled Now to prove her Gods church they flee to Israel wheras the Gentiles were her true types as elswhere I have manifested though al the wickednes hypocrisie of Apostate Israel is also found in this Romish Babel 2. Neyther yet is their argument for Israel good to say they are caled the Lords people therfore they are his true church I deny the consequent For things are named in scripture sometime as they have been before though they be not so stil as Abigail is caled the wife of Nabal though he were then dead and she maried to David Solomon was begotten of Vriahs wife wheras she was then Davids so Iesus was in the howse of Simon the Leper so named because he had been a leper Thus Israel were caled Gods people for that he had been their first husband though in their apostasie they were not his people nor his wife Secondly they were so caled in respect of their profession that they would be so esteemed and named though in deed they were without the true God As ô thou that art named the howse of Jaakob c. but he that was yesterday my people is risen up for an enemye Thirdly they were caled Gods people in respect of their calling again unto him and his covenant afterward though for the present they were none of his as In that day J wil marrie thee Israel unto me for ever J wil even marry thee unto mee in faith and thou shalt know the Lord and J wil have pitty on her that was not pittied and wil say to them which were not my people thou art my people and they shal say thou art my God And thus the Gentiles were caled Christs sheep because they should after be brought into his fold Joh. 10 16. God had much people in Corinth a heathenish citie Act. 18.10 1. Cor. 12 2. and the Iewes to this day are Gods people beloved not for their present state which is cursed but for the promise that they shal hereafter be graffed agayn into Christ. Rom. 11 11 20.23 25 26. 9.4 with Jsa 59 20 21. Ezek. 34 23. 30. Hos. 3 5. As for this false church and state of Israel which compassed the Lord with lyes and with deceyt it also may shew vs how to vnderstand that Temple of God forespoken of wherin Antichrist should sitt as God For was there any true Temple any where but in Ierusalem yet when Israel forgat his maker he builded Temples These howsoever they pretended the God that brought them out of Aegypt yet were in deed built for the worship of Divils to whom they sacrificed and not to God Therfore the Lord by names distinguisheth these two churches caling Samaria Aholah that is Her own Tabernacle Ierusalem Aholibah that is My-tabernacle in her but if Gods tabernacle had been also in Samaria the difference had not been such The Idol temples then which Ieroboam and his successors builded were none of Gods temples otherweise then by lying pretenses much less then was Bels temple in Babylon Gods temple and if the figure were not his neyther can the figured thing be his I mean this spiritual Babylon the mother of whores the habitation of Divils For as Christ surmounteth in grace and holynes al types figures that went before of him so Antichrist surpasseth in wickednes al the types and figures of him Therfore the holy Ghost contenteth not himself with one name but caleth Antichrists church Babylon and Sodom Aegypt and where our Lord was crucified meaning hethenish Rome by whose policie Christ was kylled when he was delivered to Pilat the Roman deputie and to the Gentiles the Roman souldjers to be mocked scourged crucified So that look what idolatrie fornication persecution and wickednes hath been read of among those hethen peoples the same may be proved upon the synagogue of Antichrist though mixed with profession of the name of Christ the more easily to deceive as whensoever any wil bring them to be compared shal soon be manifested 6. But they proceed and plead that this clause partake not in her synns Rev. 18 4. sheweth what we are to leav and renounce namely their synns and not whatsoever is had or reteyned by them I answer first the text sayth Goe out of her meaning this whore this Babylon that is this Church and so from the golden cup in her hand as wel as frō the
filthy potion that is in it frō the Beasts counterfeyt Lambs horns as wel as from his Lions mouth and Bears pawes We may not in the truest Church in the world partake with their synns yet is not every true Church that synneth Babylon Secondly she being in this forlorn estate she is but a lump of syn a man of syn a child of perdition the Beast is not one person but the whole kingdom M. Iohnson himself hath acknowledged more then once that the man of syn is the false Church religion of Antichrist compared to the body of a man and consisting of all the parts togither Now to the defiled and unbeleeving nothing is pure their sacrifices are abominable their prayers are turned to syn We acknowledg therfore no good or holy thing in Antichrists synagogue as touching her use of it Thirdly we renounce not any good thing because that harlot dooth chalenge abuse it but we practise Gods ordinances as he hath cōmanded condemning utterly the profanation of them by Antichrist 7. They further allege that the Church of Rome was at the first set in the way of God since which time she is fallen into great apostasie as Jsrael did in which estate she hath kept sundry truthes and ordinances of God as Israel also did Which causeth a twofold consideration of her estate 1. in respect of the ordinances of God still reteyned among them 2. and of the mixture of their own abominations Jn regard of the one to acknowledge the truth and church of God there in regard of the other to observ their apostasie and confusion against Antichrist and for this mixture to separate from them and to practise every ordinance of God which was and is in that church leaving onely their corruptions least we fal into Anabaptistrie and other evils I answer they doo but roll the first stone saying the same things comparing Antichrists church with Israel wheras the holy Ghost compareth it with the gentiles even the most vile the Sodomites Aegyptians Babylonians and hethen Romans as before I have shewed In all which nations there were many truthes ordināces of God reteyned abused which truthes made them no true Church unless we wil say al the world was Gods true Church But I wil folow their particulars The Church of Rome they say was at first set in the way of God I answer ther was at Rome such a Church in Pauls time but the Romish Church now is a Beast since that time sprung out of the bottomless pit a Catholik monster dispersed as they feign through earth heaven and purgatorie as before I shewed such a Church Paul never saw but by the spirit of prophesie foretold of it That Church then was Saints worshiped God this Church now is an habitation of Divils and worshipeth Divils Since that time say they she is fallen into Apostasie True say I even soon after Pauls time for then the mysterie of iniquitie did work and many Antichrists were gone out whiles the Apostles lived For which their Apostasie like Israels when they would not repent as Christ threatned some that were new fallen into such synns the candlestick the Church was removed the Church of Rome as Paul forewarned for unbeleef was cut off among others and for a punishment of their Apostasie God delivered the East Churches into the hands of Mahomet and the West Churches into the hands of that false-horned beast Antichrist even as Israel and Iudah of old for their like synns were delivered into the hands of the Assyrians and Babylonians And this Paul prophesied that ther should be a departing frō the faith before that Man of syn should be disclosed and because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved therfore God would send upon them that Adversarie with Satans power and strong delusion to beleev lyes that they might be damned Thus Mahomet Antichrist were Gods 2 plagues to bring not onely the death of body but of sowl upō thē that loved not the truth but departed frō it For when the great mountayne which is the kingdom of Babylon Antichrists monarchie burning with the fyre of ambition and strife was cast into the sea that is among peoples and nations then the living creatures that were in the third part of the sea so corrupted and bloody dyed lived not agayn for a thowsand yeres as did the godly which worshiped not the beast Although therfore we may truely call the state of Mahometisme and Antichristianisme apostasie yet we are taught of God to understand such apostasie as was among the hethens in Sodom Aegypt and Babylon and so Rome is caled not onely figuratively as somtimes the Iewes are caled people of Gomorrah but spiritually that is in deed and effectually for the spirit and life so to speak of all their abominations are in her most powrful and apparant So their comparison with Israel falleth too short in mesure though Israel also when they forsook God and his Church and builded new Temples were not Gods true Temple or Church as before is proved Their cōsideratiō in respect of Gods ordinances to acknowledge the church of God there is a speculatiō of their own not of God For the stealing abusing Gods ordināces mixing thē with their own inventiōs maketh not a people Gods people or Ch any more thē a true mās mony in a theefs purse maketh the theef an honest mā If it were so then the hethens when they sacrificed swine were to be condemned but when they sacrificed bullocks and sheep were to be approved as Gods Church for they kept Gods ordinance asvvel as Rome with their sacrifice of the Mass. When they worshiped idols they were to be condemned but when they worshiped the true God in their ignorant manner they were to be justified as his people so when they kept the feasts of new moons they were to be praised as Gods Church for it was an ordinance of his but when they kept their Bacchanalia to be disclaimed for heretiks And what wil this come unto at the last but to justify the Divil as he is a creature of God and transformed into an Angel of light but to condemn him as he is a black Divil and Apostate from his original Their fear least they should fall into Anabaptistrie is before defrayed but as some mariners to avoid Charybdis have falln into Scylla so these to shun the shelves of Anabaptistrie have run their ship upon the rocks of Poperie 8. Their next double consideration is about the covenant of God made with his people For oftē the people on their part break the covenāt when the Lord doth not so on his part but stil counts them his people calls thē to repentāce folowes them somtime with judgm t somtime
saying of God to Moses they wil forsake me c. and J wil forsake them And as for that which is cited from Levit. 26.45 it was a promise of the Gospel upon their unfeighned repentance and perteyneth to the Iewes also at this day as Paul sheweth us Rom. 11. for this rule is general he that confesseth and forsaketh his synns shal have mercie Although therfore God useth sometime more forbearance of evil men than at other time and often giveth space to repent yet if they repent not they shal assuredly perish and their boasting of the covenant shal not save them 3. Touching their application of things to Israel not putting difference between their state when it was one and when it was rent asunder therin also they fayl Whiles Israel were one they continued Gods Church for though they often synned yet by his word afflictions he soon brought them to repentance as is noted Judg. 2.4 5. and 3.8 9.15 and 4.1.2 3. c. But when after many other synns ten tribes fel from the Lord and rent themselves from the Kingdome of David and Preisthood of Levi both which were sacramental types of Christ and his Church when they left the other testimonies of Gods presence the Temple and Altar at Sion where God had sayd he would dwel for ever and builded them new Temples and Altars to syn forgetting their maker when they set up Calves and Divils to worship God by then presently God sent his Prophet to them with a denunciation of judgment which being done he was to avoid them as Hethens Publicans not eating or drinking in the city which because he did though drawn in by the lye of another Prophet the Lord slew him with a Lion And all that feared God both Preists people left the country and went to Iudah and the rest wer stil caled upon by the Prophets to forsake them as not being Gods wife that is his Church and their estate shewed to be without the true God and without Preist and without law and they were unto God as the Aethiopians Now wheras our Opposites allege God did not presently cast them off it is true in respect of caling them to repentance and of their dwelling in the land or as the scripture saith of putting out the name of Jsrael from under heaven for his covenant was to punish them by degrees at last if they repented not to scatter them among the Hethens til their uncircumcised harts should be humbled and they rewed their former syn and then would he remember his first covenant so receiv them agayn to grace in Christ. And as for not casting them presently out of the land the Lord dealt with them as he had before dealt with the Hethen Canaanits which were spared therin for a time because their wickednes was not yet full Gen. 15.16 If this patience towards them wil not prove them a true Church no more wil Gods like patience towards apostate Israel And how they in their impenitent estate hardning their necks dayly more more could be sayd to be the true Church of God though they cōpassed him with lyes and in the covenant of his grace unto salvation I leave for them to judge that are wise in hart As for these mens double respects they are not al of them syncere They would have it said in respect of the Israelites and not of the Lord that they were without God without Preist without law none of his wife having children of whordoms and the Lord is not with Jsrael c. agayn in respect of the Lord and not of themselves that he is caled their God and they his people and their children borne to him and Israel not to have been a widow forsaken c. I answer whatsoever was syn was wholly their own and whatsoever was grace was wholly Gods this is true in the best Churches in the world But whatsoever was a reproof and punishment for their syn respected both Gods justice and their demerit and whatsoever acceptation of grace was in them respected both Gods mercy in Christ and their faith If therfore they were in any sence a true Church at that time actually it must needs be by mutual referēce to the covenāt on both parts God offring they taking his grace offred through his holy Spirit working in them otherwise it is a mere fiction in religion to make difference where none is Now let them shew that they accepted the grace of God caling them to repentance we shew the contrary by the Lords own testimonie who for their unbeleef and stubborn disobedience did put them out of his sight in wrath And if men accept not the grace of God his caling upon them to repent makes them no more his Church then the Hethens unto whom he doth the like Agayn it is not sound to say that in respect of themselves onely it was spoken by the Prophet the Lord is not with Israel with any of the children of Aephraim For he there dissuadeth Amaziah from having the army of Israel to help him his reason is the Lord is not with Jsrael this most directly respecteth the Lord and his withdrawing of his presence from that people Even as Moses sayd Got not up to warr for the Lord is not among you did not the event shew when they fled before their enemies that is was meant in respect of Gods presence and help now withdrawn from them Also when it is sayd in other scriptures the Lord was with the Iudge and the Lord is with me I wil not feare and I am with yow al dayes many the like who ever would dreame that these things could be spoken in respect of the men onely and not of God and Christ Finally the Prophets speech to the Iewes the Lord is with yow while yow be with him but if yee forsake him he wil forsake yow doth evince manifestly that it is an evil glosse when the text sayth the Lord is not with Israel to turn it by respects as if nothing were meant but Israel is not with the Lord. So in the other speech Israel hath been without the true God the words folowing but had he turned to the Lord God of Israel and sought him he would have been found of them these manifest that it was in respect of Gods forsaking them also and not onely of their forsaking him No better if it be not worse is their citing of Hos. 2.2 she is not my wife that this respected Israel in themselves be it so but what foloweth neyther am J her husband and if the former branch respected Israel then this respecteth the Lord especially seing he testified by Ieremie J cast her away and gave her a byll of divorcement unless they wil say this also
better records and so they and all heretical assemblies in the world among whom the Bible is must be judged Gods true Churches Let us add hereunto the testimonie of men and touching our own county D. Fulk answereth the Papists thus you taught the people nothing ells but to pronounce and that ful ylfavouredly like popingeyes certain Latin words which they understood no more then stocks or stones So that the people had no instruction from you no not of the name of God in many places but that they received by vncertayn talk of their parents as it were from hand to hand For how many thowsand parishes are here in England that within these 60. yeres would declare that they never heard sermon in their life As for that they heard of their service they learned as much of it as of the ringing of their bells which was a sound without understanding These things being so what caling had the poor seduced people more then among the heathens Wee wil make the matter playn say they by a similitude from Ier. 3. A wife being filthy with adulteries if her husband wil pardon her and consent to receiv her she abideth stil his wife c. So a church overflowing with adulteries c. I answer God if it were granted that he is the husband of this whore hath promised her no pardon but delivered her to Satan to be seduced deluded damned 2 Thes. 2.9 11 12. Secondly I deny that this harlot was ever Christs spouse otherweise then al the world was by our first parents Adam and Noah For this is not she unto whom Paul wrote Rom. 1. but an other of whom he prophesied 2 Thes. 2. She succeedeth in the same place as the night succeedeth the day The Church in Pauls time came from heaven Rev. 21.2 and is long since gone to God this came up from the bottomless pit Rev. 17 8. and thither she must return She is of an other religion the daughter of a strange God But they alledge touching the election as is sayd of the Jewes Rom. 11.28 she is beloved for her fathers sakes I answer first then this proveth rather the Iewes at this day a church for stil they are loved for their fathers sakes and shal be called againe as th'Apostle there sheweth Secondly if the Iewes are beloved for their good fathers sakes then Rome may wel be hated for her evil fathers sakes For who were her fathers but the Gentiles Sodomites and Aegyptians Rev. 11 2 8 18. not the saincts in Rome for she is not of their faith and sanctitie But you will say she is the natural posteritie of them Nay ther is not so much as likelihood therof much less any certainty For besides the bloody persecutions in those times that did cut off the godly there were after that many changes of the Romane state great cōmotions that heavens departed away as a scrol when it is rolled every mountayn I le were moved out of their places Kings Captayns and all sorts of men sled and hid themselves Rev. 6 14 15 so great were the troubles of those times And for particulars Alaricus with his Gothes above a thowsand yeres agoe did take spoyl and burn Rome in the yere of Christ 414. After that agayn within 44. yeres Gensericus with his Vandals took and spoiled it and Rome for a time remayned without any inhabitant A few yeres after did Odoacer with an other company invade Italie and conquer Rome put the Emperour to flight made himself King and did much spoyl Then Theodoricus and the Ostrogothes took it and after him agayn Bellisarius with his armie wann it But above al Totilas King of the Gothes in the yere of our Lord 546. after all the former invasions did overthrow Rome quite cast down the walls burn the howses and made it so desolate that there remayned in it neyther man nor woman These turmoiles in Rome within the space of a few yeres being observed and the possessing of that land by those forreyners the Gothes who mixed them selves with the people and degenerated into the name of Jtalians and other plagues afterwards by the Saracens that kylled innumerable sowls in Rome Italie these the like may teach us how unpossible it is to shew that the present church of Rome is so much as the natural posteritie of the Saincts in Pauls time though if they were yet would it help them no more in this estate then the Ismaelites Aedomites which were the natural seed of Abraham And Adonisedek with his Amorites and Iebusites in Ierusalem Josh 10 1. c may as wel be justified to be Gods true Church because of Melchisedek King Preist of God who with his faithful company dwelled there 5. or 6. hundred yeres before Gen. 14 18. c. as the popish Beast with his Iesuites and marked slaves at this day may be pleaded for because of the godly that lived in Rome 15 or 16. hundred yeres agone And thus their reasons from Israel are also impertinent to this estate they might wel serve for the times wherin Iohn lived when the true Churches were many of them apostate but the Aegyptians and Babylonians are shadowes of our Antichristians among whom their hethenish abominations are spiritually accomplished Rev. 11. ◠But they plead stil Jn that the Church of Rome hath al the divine things in the scriptures it is of God a Church in that it hath them al corrupt that is of it self and it is a corrupt Church The Church is not taken away by corruption unless it be total c. I answer stil they take for granted that which they should prove and which I have before again and agayn disproved It is not properly the old Church of Rome corrupted but a new church arisen out of the bottomless pit carying the shew and titles of the old It is not the woman fled into the wildernes but an other woman or citie reigning over the Kings of the earth The Lamb Christ is not there as on mount Sion with his 144. thowsand having his fathers name written on their forheads Rev. 14 1. but the Wolf Antichrist with his sheeps skyn lambs horns is there with his armie of Canaanites as on moūt Maggedon At first those Gentiles invaded the courts of Gods tēple and trode down the holy citie Rev. 11.2 as the Babylonians of old dealt with Gods sanctuarie Ps. 79.1 c. Ier. 51.1.3 c. Lam. 1.10 If that army of infidels were Gods true Church so is the synagogue of Antichristians And the Hethens in their altars temples sacrifices c. had the divine things of God among them as wel if not better then hath the man of syn and his worshipers in their sacrifice of the Mass and other manifold idolatries The dutie of those that are in the popish Church and see their corruptions is they say such as of those
church Otherweise if he be but an Idol and not God his Temple church and body wil prove but an Idol like himself and his blasphemie is worse then theirs which sayd they were Jewes and were not but did lye and were the synagogue of Satan Secondly they take it for granted that by the Temple is meant the church and so goe on in obscuritie Wheras the Temple did primarily figure out Christ Joh. 2.19.21 and in the heavenly Ierusalem the true church ther was no other temple seen but the Lord God almightie and the Lamb Christ which are the Temple of it Rev. 21.22 If in this sense we understand that speech of Paul touching Antichrist then must we translate the words as some ancient Doctors have doon eis ton Naon for the Temple or as if he himself were the Temple and so in deed Antichrist taketh upon him the person and office of Christ under pretence of his Vicarship shewing himself that he is God proclayming himself to be the brydegroom of the Church which is the office of Christ yea taking a title above him for wheras Christ is caled Pontifex magnus the Great high Preist the Pope is usually intituled Pontifex maximus the Greatest high-preist and reason ther is for it because in the Pope ther is power above all powers as well of heaven as of earth as in a publick Council it was spoken of this Beast Now that these things should be true of the man of syn otherwise then by lyes spoken in hypocrisie none of grace I know wil affirm Secondarily the Temple figured the Church but first the catholik or universal church Eph. 2 21. then every particular church by proportion 1 Cor. 3 16 17. Which of these two our opposites doo intend they shew not If they mean a particular church it wil not agree with the prophesies of Antichrist whose Citie or church is so great as peoples kinreds tongues nations doo dwel in the streets therof Neyther is that answerable to the Temple in Israel which was not for one synagogue but for the whole natiō of the Iewes and for the Gentiles that came to the faith through the world If they mean the catholik or vniversal church vvhich indeed Antichrist claymeth for his Temple then we are to be taught of them how that whoorish company that worship the Beast and Dragon can possibly be the true catholik church and spowse of Christ otherweise then by counterfeysance and lying ostentation even as the Divil himself is an Angel of light And the very word Temple leadeth vs to vnderstand Antichrists church to be but a counterfeyt For what was the Temple or Tabernacle in Israel Not the Church or congregation of Gods people properly for they were the worshipers of God in the Tēple but it was a sacramental sign of Gods dwelling with his people as it is written they shal make me a sanctuarie that J may dwell among them So Solomon built the Temple that God might dwel therin and for the times under the gospel God promised J wil set my sanctuary among them for ever my Tabernacle shal be with them J wil be their God they shal be my people and the fulfilling herof is set down Rev. 21 3. behold the tabernacle of God is with men and he wil dwel with them and they shal be his people So in Revelat. 11.1 the Tēple is distinguished frō thē that worship therein which is the people The Temple then was an outward sign of Gods presence with his people and of his inward dwelling in their harts by faith and by his Spirit unto their salvation so Antichrists Temple is an outward shew of his presence with that seduced people in whose harts he dwelleth by Popish faith and by his Spirit of error carying them to damnation But as Antichrist shal not professedly deny the true God or Christ though in deed and truth he falsly sheweth himself that he is God so shal he not professedly deny the Temple or church of God but falsly vaunt his adulterous synagogue to be the same Gods true temple and tabernacle is in mount Sion in heaven wher God sitteth on a throne and dwelleth among his people wher is the ark of his covenant and from thence lightnings voices thundrings earthquake and hayl come forth against the Antichristians his enemies and vials of his wrath powred out upon the throne of the beast and on the men that have his mark On the contrary the Beast which is the kingdom of Antichrist ascendeth from beneath out of the bottomless pit and blasphemeth this heavenly tabernacle and sitteth in Babylon upon the Dragons throne and fighteth against the Lamb and against the Saincts treading under foot the holy Citie and casting down the place of Christs sanctuarie When th'Apostle therfore telleth us that Antichrist sitteth as God in the Temple of God it is to be understood first of their invading and destroying of Gods church and people as the hethens of old dealt with Ierusalē dwellers therin secōdly of their own vayn ostentatiō whiles they will have it caled the Christian catholik church and the Pope the head of the same The next point that Antichrist is to be sought there and not among the Jewes Turks Pagans is a fallacie from an insufficient division for al out of the true Church are not Jewes or Turks or Pagans ther is a fourth to make up the mease even popish Antichristians and among these is the Man of syn to be found though with a visar on his face and a sheepskin on his back In the true Church he hath somtimes been found raunging as a wolf but not reigning as a God which in his own Temple he dooth wher he is acknowledged Our Lord God the Pope and h Thou art an other God on earth and To beleev that our Lord God the Pope might not decree as he hath decreed it were a matter of heresie and O thou that takest away the synns of the world have mercy upon us with other like intollerable blasphemies Thirdly they say Antichrist takes not away wholly the church of God and every truth and ordinance of the Lord. I answer neyther did the Divil take away wholly every truth and ordinance of God from among the hethens but they reteyned many rites of Gods worship received from their fathers as before is noted Yet in very deed so much as in them lay and us stood with the safetie of their deceitful kingdom the Divil of old and Antichrist his son of late have sought wholly to take away the church truth of God and to put lyes in the place But God hath nourished the woman his church in the wildernes from the presence of the Serpent Rev. 12.14 And for further answer hereof let us hear what M. Iohnson