the souldier or the merchāt aduenturer which in their places are a singular defence to their countrey by sea and land therefore it is a heinous sinne to robbe Churchmen which as Elias are the Chariots and horsemen of the common wealth The weapons of our warrefare saith the Apostle are not carnal but mighty through God to cast downe holdes casting downe the imaginations and euery high thing that is exalted against the knowledge of God and bringing into captituitie euery thought to the obedience of Christ and hauing ready the vengeance against all disobedience c. 2. Cor. 10. The repairing of Churches is to bee performed carefully So was it in king Ioas time therefore much more prouision for the teachers the Priestes maintenance in Ioas time neither was nor might be abridged for repairing of the Churches the reason of it is conteined in these wordes The money of the trespasse offering and the money of the Sinne offring was not brought into the Lordes house for it was the Priests 2. Kings 12. Skilfull teachers doe plough the Lords field and are the Lords both mouth and hands to deliuer his blessings and treasure vnto vs therefore they ought to haue defence and maintenance and not to wander as Michas Priest did Iudg. 17. Students cannot liue of the ayre as the Chamelion doth Church pollers shut vp the kingdome of heauen before mē for they themselues goe not in neither suffer they them that would enter to come in therefore the woe denounced by Christ against the Scribes and Pharises seazeth vpon them Matth. 23. Ezechias the King of Iuda commanded that the Priests and Leuites should haue maintenance and that their wiues children and families should bee prouided for 2. Chron. 31. vers 4 18. Thus did Hezekiah throughout all Iudah and did well and vprightly and truely before the Lord his God And in all the works that he began for the seruice of the house of God both in the Law and in the Commandements to seeke his God he did it will all his heart and prospered 2. Chron. 31. vers 20 21. Diuers famous Princes haue had some Church-men to be of their honorable Councel Iehoiada was in King Ioas Court 2. Chron. 24. Zadok and Abiathar in Dauid and Salomons Court 2. Sam. 20. 1. King 4. Daniel in Darius Court Dan. 6. It is Queene Elizabeths pleasure that the worthiest men should bee aduaunced for the gouernement and seruice of the Church That very meane choise hath bene made of diuers Churchmen the land sees feeles and cries out of Question Whether such thinges as were giuen for the maintenance of idolatry may and ought to be conuerted to the seruice of God Answere They may and ought My reasons are If men should conuert them to their priuate vse it might be iustly thought that in abolishing superstition priuate gaine is the marke which is shot at and not the aduancing of Gods religion August epist. 154. When such things are conuerted not to priuate but common vses or to the honour of God that falleth out in them which in men themselues when of Church robbers and wicked men they are conuerted to true religion August epist 154. Eleazar the Priest tooke the brasen censers which they that were burnt had offered and made broad plates of them for a couering of the Altar Numb 16. The gold siluer the vessels of brasse and Iron in Iericho were brought into the Lordes treasury Ios 6. Gedeon did offer vnto the Lorde a bullocke which had bin fed for Baals seruice and did vse the wood of the groue a dioyning Iudg. 6. If such thinges as were giuen to the maintenance of Poperie may not be conuerted to the seruice of God then pull downe Churches and Vniuersities take away their landes c. And let Atheisme be in steade of Gods religion and Macciauell in the place of the new Testament 5. ALMIGHTIE GOD blesseth those kingdomes with peace which promote and embrace his religion THe holy host setteth out in liuely colours the cōsequents of teaching and embracing the Lordes religion They shall breake their swordes into mattockes and their speares into siethes they shall sit euery man vnder his vine and figge tree without feare of the enemie Mich. 4. The prophet Esay singeth the same song The Wolfe shall dwell with the Lambe The Leoparde shall lie with the kidde the Cowe and the Beare shall feede together Esay 11. That is wicked men which in cruell affections resemble the Wolfe the Leoparde the Beare shall cast off the chaine of pride and the garment of crueltie and shall goe hand in hand with the godlie who for their innocencie are compared to the Lambe the Cowe the Kidde The reason is For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the Lorde Esay 11. The Egyptians and Assyrians were deadly enemies they denied traffique one to an other and all passages were shut vp betweene Egypt and Assyria Esay describing a great alteration of minds in them of Egypt and Assyria sayth that There shall be apath from Egypt to Assur and Assur shall come into Egypt and Egypt into Assur The reason of their agreement is set downe in these words The Egyptians shall worship the Lord with Assur Esay 19. Where idolatrie is aduanced no peace can bee looked for They chose newe gods saith Deborah Then was warre in the gates Iudg. 5. The Israelites for a long time were without the true God without Priest to teach In that time saith the Prophet Azariah there was no peace for nation was destroyed of nation and citie of citie 2. Chron. 15. The Reubenites Gadites and halfe tribe of Manasseh transgressed against the God of their fathers and went a whoring after the gods of the people of the lande whome God had destroyed before them The God of Israel stirred vp the spirit of the kings of Assyria who caryed them away captiue c. 1. Chron. 5. Iehoram the king of Iuda did forsake the Lorde God of his fathers the consequents were Edom Libnah rebelled the Lorde stirred vp against Iehoram the spirit of the Philistines Arabians 2. Chron. 21. King Ahaz was a notable idolater He sacrificed to the gods of Damascus the Edomites and Philistines inuaded the cities of Iuda and preuailed Yea the king of Aslyria whose helpe Ahaz desired and accounted greatly of did trouble and not strengthen him 2. Chron. 28. Iehoiakim the king of Iuda did euill in the sight of the Lorde his God The king of Babel came vp against him and bound him with chaines to carie him to Babel 2. Chron. 36. They which dissent in religion cannot bee knit fast together The Samaritanes and Iewes differed in religion they contended about the Temple Ioh. 4. The stirre betweene them was very great Some in the Apostles times after Christ ascensiō vrged circumcision as necessary vnto saluation other condemned it as an absurd grosse error The stirre was great in the Churches of Antiochia and Galatia Arius erred blasphemously about the godhead
A GODLY TREATISE containing and deciding certaine questions mooued of late in London and other places touching the Ministerie Sacraments and Church Whereunto one Proposition more is added After the ende of this Booke you shall finde a defence of such points as M. Penry hath dealt against And a confutation of many grosse errours broched in M. PENRIES last Treatise Written by Robert Some Doctor of Diuinitie Ephes 4. verse 15. Let vs follow the trueth in loue and in all things grow vp into him which is the head that is Christ c. Imprinted at London by G. B. Deputie to Christopher Barker Printer to the Queenes most excellent Maiestie 1588. ¶ To the Reader TWo sortes of Recusantes are in this land the one Popish the other Anabaptisticall They giue out that wee haue no ministery no Sacraments no visible Church These men labour of two diseases the one is great pride the other grosse ignorance Their pride appeares in their behauiour which is voide of humilitie their ignorance in their Arguments which hang together like a sicke mans dreame That her Maiestie may and ought to compell these Recusants to frequent our Church assemblies I make no question There is an other sorte which either deny or doubt whether vnpreaching ministers doe deliuer a Sacrament vpon better aduise some of them confesse that ignorant ministers doe administer a Sacrament but they adde this that such as receiue any Sacrament at their hands doe sinne grossely and pollute thēselues I will hope well of these men for they erre onely for want of iudgement The holy Sacrament is one thing the ministers ignorance is an other thing the Lordes Sacrament brings singuler comfort to the worthie receiuer the ministers ignorance can neither peruert the Sacrament nor pollute the receiuer The Donatistes taught otherwise in the former time and the Anabaptistes in our time but they are notably confuted by two famous men Augustine and Caluine What account I make of ignorant ministers appeareth in this treatise It pleased God to direct my heart and penne in this holy labour therefore I assure my selfe of his gracious blessing London Maij. 6. 1588. R. S. A Table of such points as are conteiin this Treatise 1 A Godly Prince may and ought to compell his subiects if any refuse to the externall Seruice of God 2 A godly Prince may not suffer any Religion but the true Religion either publiquely or priuately in his Dominions 3 Able teachers ought to be prouided so much as can be for the Churches 4 The teachers of religion must haue maintenance 5 Almightie God blesseth those kingdomes with peace which promote and embrace his Religion 6 The childe of God is not polluted though hee be present at and partaker of the publique Prayers Sacraments c. at such time as wicked men are present at and partakers of them 7 They which were baptized in the Popish Church by Popish Priestes receiued true Baptisme touching the substance of Baptisme 8 They are the Sacraments of Baptisme and the holy Supper which are deliuered in the Church of Englande by vnpreaching Ministers 9 The godly are not polluted which receiue the Sacrament at the handes of an vnpreaching Minister 10 The Church of England is the visible Church of Christ 1. A GODLY PRINCE may and ought to compell his Subiects if any refuse to the externall Seruice of God IT is the Princes duetie to prouide able men to teache the Lordes Religion in his dominions So did Iosaphat the king of Iuda 2. Chro. 17. and Artaxerxes the king of Persia Ezra 7. therefore it is the Princes duetie to prouide that his Subiects doe heare and learne the Lords religion Teachers and learners are relatiues Great outrages were committed against both the tables of the commandements as appeareth in the booke of Iudges for euery man did that whih was good in his owne eyes Iudg. 17. 19. cha The reason of these absurdities is set out liuely and often in these words There was no king in Israel Iudg. 17.18 19. Chap. by which words it is manifest that if a religious Prince had bene in place Idolatrie and wicked behauiour had bene suppressed and the Israelites pressed to serue the Lorde That Princes doe not passe their bounds in this it is cleare by that which Augustine reporteth of and commendeth in the King of Babylon Contra Cresc gram lib. 3. cap. 51. The Prince is bound to sanctifie the Sabboth so are his subiects the Lords commaundement is flat for this Remember the Sabboth day to keepe it holy Sixe dayes shalt thou labour and do all thy worke But the seuenth day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God in it thou shalt not do any worke thou nor thy sonne nor thy daughter thy man seruant nor thy mayd nor thy beast nor thy stranger that is within thy gates c. Exo. 20. If none are exempted by almightie God none can be dispensed with by man for all are charged to present themselues in the holy assemblies And least any either prince or subiect should forget this duetie the Lord himselfe is their remembrancer in these wordes Remember that thou sanctifie the Sabboth c. that is the sanctification of my Sabboth is a matter very important it concerneth my honour but thy comfort therfore remember and forget it not If any refuse they may and ought to bee compelled for the breach of the Sabboth is a hainous sinne Iere. 17. Nehem. 13. Faith commeth by hearing of the word Rom. 10. therefore refusall to heare hinders both the beginning and growth of faith The Samaritanes heard Philippe in Samaria they beleeued Actes 8. Lydia heard Paul at Philippos she beleeued Act. 16. Augustine was a Manichee nine yeeres he heard Ambrose the Bishop of Mediolanum and was conuerted August confess lib. 4. cap. 1. and lib. 5. cap. 13. and 14. If any shal aske me why all that heare beleeue not I answere Arcana Deisunt adoranda non scrutanda That is Gods secrets are not to be searched but adored and that vnlesse Gods spirit touch the heart as the worde doeth pearce the eare Gods holy Trueth is a dead letter vnto vs. Asa Iosias were famous kings of Iuda Asa commāded Iuda to seeke the Lord God of their fathers and to do according to the law and cōmandement 2. Chron. 14. Iosias compelled his subiects to serue the Lord their God 2. Chron. 34. So did Manasses after his conuersion 2. Chron. 33. If it were lawfull for these Kings of Iuda to cōmaund and compell their subiects it is not vnlawfull for ours to do the like If it be not lawfull to compell recusants why are Asa Iosias Manasses commended by the holy Ghost for this excellent course Ezra was a learned Scribe he was authorized by the King of Persia to teache them beyonde the riuer Euphrates the Lavve of God vvhich did not knowe it and to punish such as refused to learne Artaxerxes vvarrant is set dovvne in this sort And thou Ezra after
ignorant men which are not acquainted with Gods booke be kept and thrust out of the holy ministerie vnlesse they will be partakers of great sinnes and consequently of great plagues A sufficient teacher is a rare blessing for he setteth the Lords plough forward and is Gods hand to deliuer heauenly treasures If good care shall be had by our Prince our Bishops our Patrons to goe on in aduancing and making choise of such both gouernors and pastors Gods religion Church Vniuersities will flourish more notably and consequently Gods glory our gracious Prince shall be more soundly honoured the people of the land shall be singularly encouraged to serue God to fight for the religion for their Prince for their countrey against any either forraine or home enemie and Gods fauour and blessings shall be multiplied vpon our Queene vpon vs and vpon our posteritie Almightie God will accept this at our hands for great thankfulnes for his late mercy in preseruing the English both fleet and nation and amazing dispersing the popish fleet by his mighty hand This gracious and notable fauour of God hath danted Gods our enemies in al popish kingdomes and churches and hath put life into Gods seruants in all nations Churches that professe the religion The Lord for his Christes sake graunt that we may be reuerently mindfull of and humbly thankfull to his maiestie for this deliuerance And that as in the time of danger we vsed the 83. and 68. psalmes to entreate Gods fauour so we may euer sing the 124. and 46. psalmes to publish Gods mercie and to testifie our thankfulnes for this gracious conquest CHAP. 3. ALMIGHTIE GOD NEVER called any to Magistracie but hee furnished them accordingly THe Egyptians were harde masters to the Israelites They kept them very short in Egypt When almighty God would blesse the Israelites with freedom and gouernment he furnished Moses notably for that excellent seruice He gaue him singuler wisedome courage c. If he had not Moses had bene vtterly vnfit for such a famous match Moses complained vnto the Lorde that hee alone was not able to gouerne the Israelites Almightie God for the ease of Moses appointed 70. Elders of Israel to help in that gouernment That those Ancients might cary thēselues profitably in that charge the Lord did garnish them accordingly Num. 11. Moses before his death desired the Lorde to appoint one to succeede him in the gouernment that the Israelites might not be as sheepe without a shepheard Num. 27. Gods pleasure was that Iosua should be the man Deut. 34. He did so assist and furnish him with the feare of God with the spirit of wisedome courage c. that he became very famous in peace in warre at and after his dying day The Church common wealth of the Israelites decayed greatly were at a low ebbe in king Sauls time That both Church and cōmon wealth might be reuiued the Lord aduanced his seruant Dauid to the kingdome He did beautifie him with extraordinary graces as with precious Diamonds Dauid was very religious very wise very valiant very religious for hee brought home the Lordes Arke very wise for his royal throne was a seate of Iustice very valiant for he vanquished many enemies Salomō succeeded his father Dauid in the gouernment of the Israelites That he might cary himselfe accordingly in that great charge he desired and obtained at Gods hands a wise and vnderstanding heart 1. King 3. Shebna was a great officer in Ezechias Court His course was cunning and dangerous to the common wealth of Iuda Almightie God coulde not beare him therefore sent a notable vengeance vpon him In his steade Eliakim was appointed vnder the King of Iuda A man singularly furnished by the Lord for he was a father of the inhabitants of Ierusalem and of the house of Iuda Esay 22. Ioseph was aduanced in Egypt Nehemias in Persia Daniel in Chaldea They dealt excellently in their gouernment for almightie God did notable furnish them Gedeon was a very meane man he attended on the flaile In his time the Madianites were heauie to the Israelites 7. yeeres That the Lord might deliuer his people from the tyrannie of the Madianites he furnished Gedeon for that seruice in extraordinary sort Iudg. 6. and 7. chap. There were in Gedeon which ought to be in euery Captaine both by sea and land Scientia rei militaris virtus authoritas faelicitas Cic. pro lege Manil. That is skil in warlike affaires vertue authoritie felicitie They which are inwardly called to the Magistracie are such as are furnished by the Lord with good parts for that weighty function They are not brambles as Abimelech was nor sots as Maximinus was nor fooles as Candaules was They are vine figge oliue trees as Dauid Ezechias Iosaphat Constantinus were These are such Magistrates in whom God delighteth and which are best welcome to Gods people for they are rare ornaments both of Church and common wealth God increase the number of such in this lande that both Church and common wealth may shine continually as starres at home abroade c. to the glory of God the honour of the Prince the terrour of the enemie and the comfort of the English nation CHAP. 4. THE READING OF THE holy Scripture doth edifie MOses commaunded the Priests in this sort c. When all Israel shall come to appeare before the Lord thy God in the place which he shall chuse thou shalt reade this lawe before all Israel that they may heare it Gather the people together men and women and children and thy stranger that is within thy gates that they may heare and that they may learne and feare the Lord your God and keepe and obserue all the wordes of this law And that their children which haue not knowen it may heare it and learne to feare the Lord your God c. Deut. 31. I gather my argument out of this place thus By reading of the lawe of God the Israelites did learne and feare God therefore they were edified If you reply that all the Israelites did not profite by this reading I answere no more did all profit by the preaching of the Prophets of Christ and the Apostles The fault was not in the seed but in the ground Vnlesse Gods spirit touch our hearts as the worde doeth pearce our eares Gods truth either read or preached is a shut booke and as a sealed letter vnto vs. When hee shall sit vpon the throne of his kingdome then shall he write him this lawe repeated in a booke by the Priests of the Leuites And it shall be with him and he shall reade therein all dayes of his life that hee may learne to feare the Lorde his God and to keepe all the woordes of this lawe and these ordinances for to doe them That his heart be not lifted vp aboue his brethren and that hee turne not from the commandement to the right hand or to the left but that he may prolong his dayes in his
the place of a priest among them was no priest in deed though he ten thousand times profaned circumcision would brag neuer so often that he worshipped after his Idolatrous maner no other God but the God of his father Abraham and sware onely by the feare of his father Isaac The reason hereof is because that euery priest vnder the law must be an Israelite by profession that is a member of the true Church neither could any of the godly assure themselues that an Edomitish priest admistred true circumcision according to the substance Now I reckon of a popish priest no otherwise thē I would haue done of an Ismaelitish or Edomitish circumciser the profanation of that seale of the couenant still continuing in mount Seir. R. Some Your Maior propositions in your two first arguments are viz. Euery Minister must bee at the least by profession a member of the true Church And euery Minister hath an office within the body of the Church My answere is that your Maior propositions and the proofe of them out of the 12. to the Rom. are true if you giue them this sense viz. that euery lawfull and good Minister of God is by prosession a member and hath an office within the body of the sound Church If you vnderstand your Maior propositions otherwise I deny them my reason is Excommunicated heretiques which administer true baptisme out of the Church had a calling though a faultie one and yet these heretiques neither were mēbers nor had any office in the true Church That Iudas was a vessel of wrath and yet an Apostle and a member of the Church in the iudgement of the Church I make no question The case of many hypocrites hath may be such for reprobation and ministerie though not for Apostleship That which I like of in this Treatise of yours I will either alow by some short speach or else passe ouer with silence Cauiling and wrangling become not such as professe and loue the Religion If none may be a Minister in Gods Church by Gods order but such as are members that is engraffed into Gods Church it is a good consequent that none in the time of the Law might be a Leuiticall Priest which was vncircumcised Which point you dealt very strāgly in before It is true that none might be a Leuiticall priest which was not a Iewe by profession and of the line of Aaron but yet not euery one of Aarons line if he were vnfit for that holy functiō might be admitted to the Leuiticall priesthood as you gaue out before very absurdly No popish Priest as hee is a popish Priest is accompted a Minister in our Church If you thinke otherwise you thinke amisse for I can assure you that none which haue bene popish Priestes either did or doe administer in our Church without the allowance of our Church I confesse they receiue not imposition of handes againe either in our Church or in other reformed Churches If Circumcision was amongst the Ismaelites and Edomites as you write and I affirme then a Sacrament was amongst them I pray you remember this The Priestes of Idumea I graunt were not Priestes in deede that is they were not lawfull and good Ministers of God for they had no lawfull calling yet they had a calling though a faultie one Otherwise Circumcision administred by them had bene no Sacrament That which decemeth you is that you do not distinguish betweene a lawfull and good Minister of God and a Minister betweene a lawfull calling and a calling c. I. Penry Whereas in the assumption or second part of both the reasons I deny popish Priests to be members of the Church my meaning is not that there are none of the elect within the body of Popery whom the Lord may cal in his good time For I woulde not deny this vnto Mahometisme or that there are not left in Popery certaine rubishes steps of true Religion for this difference I make betwene them and other Infidels though the Iewes also may claime this vnto themselues But I meane that the Popish religion is such a religion as whosoeuer liueth dieth in the profession thereof he liueth and dieth out of the Church where saluation is not possibly to be had for any thing that is made knowen vnto man Whence it necessarily foloweth that in Popery there is no Church If it be obiected that the Papists are within the Couenant inasmuch as long since they professed the trueth Mine answere will be that Popery was neuer the trueth as yet that no Papist in that hee was a Papist euer professed the trueth and that God made no Couenant with professed Idolaters as all Papists are R. Some Your Minor propositions in your two first arguments are viz. No popish priest is by profession a mēber of the church And No popish priest hath an office within the bodie of the Church My answer is If by church in your Minor propositiōs you meane a sound Church I grant that no popish priest as he is a popish priest and a professed papist is either a member by profession or hath an office within the bodie of the Church If by Church you meane an vnsound Church My answer is that a popish priest is a member hath an office within the body of the church My reason is the popish church is a church though an vnsound church For proofe of this I haue vsed diuerse reasons in this Treatise I referre you to them If they wil not downe with you you must confute the seuerall writings of Caluine in his Institutions Commentaries and Epistles of other famous men and condemne the iudgement of all the reformed churches If your stomacke serue you you haue matter inough to work on more thē you were wel aware of That steps of true Religion remaine in the Popish Church it is manifest for God preserued in that Church verbum suum baptismum That is his Word and Baptisme Beza in Annot. Matt. 23.2 Yea we of the Religion haue receiued many good things from the papists as the Israelites did the Arke frō the Philistines I graunt that the Iewes haue many good things amōgst them yet there is great difference betwene Iewes papists The papist receiueth the new Testamēt so doth not the Iew. The papist doth not vse circūcision because the date of it is out but baptisme which is an engraffing into Christ The Iewe retaineth circumcision doth not admit baptisme That the papists are not altogether aliens frō Gods couenant I haue shewed before and doe rest in M. Caluines iudgement for that point You write that poperie was neuer the trueth as yet If you meane that all poperie was neuer the trueth as yet I agree with you If you meane that no part in poperie was euer the trueth as yet you erre grossely and are refuted by your owne words which are that there are certaine steppes of true religion in poperie You giue out that no papist in that
the wisdome of thy God that is in thine hand set Iudges and arbiters which may iudge all the people that is beyonde the riuer euen all that knowe the Lawe of thy God and teache yee them that knowe it not And whosoeuer will not doe the Lawe of thy God and the Kings lawe let him haue iudgement without delay whether it be vnto death or to banishment or to confiscation of goods or to imprisonment Esra 7. verse 25 26. And least any should take exception against Artaxerxes commaundement Ezra cleareth it of all suspition of vnlavvfulnesse in these vvordes Blessed bee the Lorde God of our fathers which hath inclined the Kings heart to beautifie the House of the Lorde that is in Ierusalem Ezra 7. verse 27. Augustine the Bishoppe of Hippo in Africke vvas a very famous man hee vvas sometimes of opinion that heretiques vvere to bee pressed by argument and not by the Magistrate his reason then vvas Ne fictos Catholicos haberemus quos apertos hereticos noueramus That is least vvee should haue them counterfait Catholiques whome wee knewe to bee notorious heretiques But after weightie consideration hee chaunged his former opinion and is very resolute that Recusants may and ought to bee compelled by the Magistrate August Epist. 48. 204. Siterrerentur non docerentur improba quasi dominatio videretur Sed rursus Si docerentur non terrerentur c. August Epist. 48. that is to punish and not to teach were tyrannie againe to teach and not to punish were to harden them in their auncient custome and to make them slowe to enter the path of saluation Exi in vias sepes compelle intrare Luke 14. Qui compellitur quò non vult cogitur sed quùm intrauerit iam volens pascitur August Epist 204. that is Go out into the high wayes and hedges and compell them to come in he that is compelled is compelled to enter against his will but when hee is entred hee is fedde willingly Ad caenam tanti patrisfamilias si sponte non vultis intrare compellimus August contra 2. Gaudentij Epist lib. 2. cap. 28. that is to the supper of so great an householder if you wil not of your owne accord we compell you to enter Quod autem vobis videtur inuitos ad veritatem non esse cogendos c. August contra 2. Gaudentij Epist lib. 2. cap. 17. That is where as yee thinke that men are not to bee compelled to the Trueth against their vvilles yee erre not knovving the Scriptures nor the povver of GOD vvhich maketh those vvilling though they bee compelled against their willes Qui phreneticum ligat lethargicum excitat ambobus molestus ambos amat Aug. Epist 48. That is he that bindeth a frantike man and awaketh him that hath the lethargy loueth both though he be grieuous to both 2. A GODLY PRINCE MAY not suffer any religion but the true religion either publikely or priuately in his Dominions THe exercise of false religion is directly against the sanctification of the Lords Sabboth Exo. 20. therefore the Prince may not at any hande suffer it The Morall lawe as it teacheth the worship of Almightie God in the first and honestie of life in the second table of the commandements is perpetuall and bindeth vs vnto the worldes ende The Israelites being in captiuitie in Egypt were required by Pharao to sacrifice to Almightie God in Egypt Moses refused c. Exod. 8. The Israelites being in captiuitie in Babylon were required by the Chaldeans to sing one of the songs of Sion They refused and answered thus How shall we sing the Lords song in a strange land Psal 137. Of these places I gather my argument thus It was not lawfull to sacrifice in Egypt and to sing the Lords song in Chaldea which were polluted landes therefore it is not lawfull to suffer Idolatrous popish seruice in Englād which is a holy land That professed papists are Idolaters it is manifest first they worship false gods for they worship Angels and Saintes deceased which are no gods Secondly they worshippe not the true God aright for they doe not worship him according to his written worde Confession consent in the true religion is Vinculum ecclesiae the chaine and bond of Gods Church for the Apostle saith there is but one faith Ephe. 4.5 therefore dissension and difference in religion is a dissolutiō of Gods Church But no prince may haue any either hand or litle finger in dissoluting Gods Church for Kings and Queenes are the nursing fathers and mothers of the Church Esai 4.9 It is the Princes duetie to prouide for the safetie of the bodies therefore much more for the safety of the soules of his subiects If for the safetie of their soules then they may not suffer them to poyson their soules True religion is the foode of the soule It is but one To swarue from that is the bane of the soule It leadeth to hell The Shipmaster and shepheard must keepe his shippe and sheepe from rocke and wolfe Qui non scruat si potest periturum occidit The prince is bounde to serue the Lord in feare Psal 2. therefore he may not suffer almightie God to be dishonoured by any of his subiects God is notably dishonoured when false worship is suffered either publikely or priuately The Angel of the Church of Pergamus is reproued by Christ for hauing such in Pergamus as maintained the doctrine of Balaam and the doctrine of the Nicolaitans which God hated The Angel of the Church of Thyatira is reproued by Christ for suffering Iezabel c. to teach and to deceiue Apocal. 2. therfore Princes sinne grieuously which suffer the exercise of a false religion A godly prince may not suffer a wilfull breach of his owne lawes therefore not of Gods lawes Almightie God is greater then all Princes His lawes doe as farre passe the princes as the gold of Ophir the clay in the street Besides they which hate Gods religion and consequently sinne against the first table are easily induced to disobey their prince which is a sinne against the second table It was a famous speech of the Emperour Constantius the father of Constantinus the Emperour Howe can they bee fast and true to the Emperour which are Traitours to Almightie God Euseb lib. 1. de vita Constant King Asa deposed Maachah his mother from her regencie because she had made an idoll in agroue Asa brake downe her idoll and stamped it at the brooke Kidron 2. Chron. 15. Ezechias and Iosias were famous Kings of Iuda They destroyed the groues and temples of the idols They destroyed the groues and temples of the idols They tooke a direct course for Gods religion Almightie God may not bee dalied with in his seruice There must be no parting of stakes Hee will either haue all or none Ezech. 20. The Lordes Altar and Baals Altar must not stand together Iudg. 6. Nabuchodonosor the king of Babylon made a decree that euery
people nation and language which spake any blasphemie against the God of Sidrach Misach and Abednago should be drawen in pieces and their houses made a Iakes c. Dan. 3. Constantinus the Emperour did not suffer I dolatrie in any part of his dominions Euseb lib. 4. de vita Const. The Emperours Theodosius and Gratianus did not suffer Arianisme c. Theod. lib. 5. cap. 16. Sozom. lib. 7. cap. 12. and 4. Edward the sixth a Prince of famous memorie was dealt with by his honourable counsailours that the Lady Mary which succeeded in the kingdome might haue popish masse c. Arguments were vsed to induce his Maiestie to like of that course His answere and resolution was negatiue So doth master Foxe report in the Actes and monuments in these wordes In the dayes of King Edward the sixth Carolus the Emperour made request to the sayde King and his Counsell to permit Lady Mary who after succeeded in the crowne to haue Masse in her house without preiudice of the Law And the Counsel on a time sitting vpon matters of policie hauing that in question sent Cranmer then Archbishop of Canterburie and Ridley then Bishop of London to intreate the king for the same who comming to his Grace alledged their reasons and perswasions for the accomplishing thereof So the King hearing what they could say replied his answere againe out of the scriptures so groundedly grauely and fully that they were enforced to giue place to his replication and grant the same to be true Then they after long debating in this maner with his Maiestie laboured politikely in an other sort and alledged what dangers the denying thereof might bring to his grace what breach of amitie of the Emperours part what troubles what vnkindnesse and what occasions sundry wayes it woulde enforce c. Vnto whome the king answered willing them to content themselues for he would he saide spende his life and all he had rather then to agree and graunt to that hee knewe certainely to bee against the trueth The which when the Bishops heard notwithstanding they vrged him still to graunt and would by no meanes haue his nay Then the good king seeing their importunate suite that needes they woulde haue his Maiestie to consent thereto in the ende his tender heart bursting out in bitter weeping and sobbing desired them to be content Whereat the Bishoppes themselues seeing the kings zeale and constancie wept as fast as he and so tooke their leaue of his grace and comming from him the Archbishoppe tooke master Cheeke his Schoolemaster by the hand and sayde Ah master Cheeke you may be glad all the dayes of your life that you haue such a scholler for he hath more diuinitie in his litle finger then all we haue in all our bodies c. Thus farre master Foxe 3. ABLE TEACHERS OVGHT to be prouided so much as can be for the Churches GOds people are the Lordes sheepe spouse citie therefore they must be fedde garnished watched ouer with the Lords foode furniture weapons This cannot bee done without able teachers The worke of the ministerie is a famous worke Ephe. 4. It passeth Moses Tabernacle and Salomons Temple therefore it is to be committed to skilfull and faithfull men by it Dagon Diana are cast downe and the Lords Arke and religion are set vp by it ignorance darkenes are remoued and knowledge and light are planted by it many wandring sheepe are brought to the Lords folde and many sheaues of corne into the Lords barne This appeapeared notably in Samaria Ephesus Corinth c. The Ambassadors of earthly Princes either are or should be men of choise otherwise they dishonour their Princes and become ridiculous therefore the ministers which are the Ambassadors of the highest prince Mal. 2.2 Cor. 5. must haue some mettall in them If they haue not howe either can or shall they deliuer the Lords commission A learned teacher is a singular blessing for hee feedeth Gods people with knowledge and vnderstanding Iere. 3. Such were Ezra amongst the Israelites Epaphroditus at Philippos Epaphras at Colossos Apollos at Corinth such are many thanks be to God in this land therefore an ignorant minister is a grieuous plague for he cannot strengthē the weake heale the sicke binde together the broken Ezech. 34. The Popish and Anabaptisticall sort haue done great hurt in this land This is as cleare as the sunne the way to heale this sore is to prouide such as by souereigne plaisters and medicine out of the Lords Eden may remoue this dangerous infection and plant in the peoples hearts the Lords holy religion Where teaching is not the people are in a woful case Solomon saith Where prophecie that is the expounding of Gods word is not the people perish Prouerb 29. Almightie God saith My people perish for want of knowledge Hos 4. Our sauiour Christ saith This is life eternall that they might knowe thee the onely true God and Iesus Christ whom thou hast sent Ioh. 17. Where sound teachers are placed these commodities are apparant First Almightie God is notablie serued Secondly the prince is duetifully obeyed Thirdly the enemie to religiō is either won or descried Where the people are not taught these absurdities doe followe First they cannot serue God for they doe not knowe God Esay 19. Prius est Deum scire consequens colere Secondly the prince is not so dutifullie obeyed the rebellion in the North is a proofe of that Lastly the enemie to religion cannot be wonne for faith commeth by hearing Rom. 10. nor so easily descried for the holy word is a searcher Hebr. 4. All which loue the religion haue and doe desire a greater nomber of able teachers that our church may haue more beautie our prince more honour our people more heauenly comfort None mislike this but such as make Gods Church either a marke to shoote at or a carkasse to feede vpon The one sorte are professed enemies the other gracelesse hypocrites For they preferre myre before pearles earth before heauen and their filthie swine before Iesus Christ as the Gergesens did Mat. 8. 4. THE TEACHERS OF Religion must haue maintenance TO shewe kindenesse to the Lordes house is an excellent worke so did Nehemias a courtier To prouide maintenance for the teachers is to shewe kindnesse to the Lords house Nehem. 13. verse 14. What then is their kindenesse which sell Church liuings as Iudas did Christ The abominable sale and marchandise of Church liuings is cried out against in Court Citie and Vniuersities Propter abundantiam as one said of late nonpotest propter impudentiam non vult celari that is the polling and sale of Church liuings is so common that it cannot and so shameles that it will not be hidde To forsake the house of God is a heinous sinne not to prouide for the teachers is to forsake the house of God Nehem. 10. and 13. Chap. Howe greate then is their sinne which robbe the Church and Churchmen It is a grosse sinne to spoyle either
of Christ Alexander the bishop of Alexandria both misliked condemned his filthy heresie Socrat. lib. 1. ca. 6. There was hotte stirre in the church of Alexandria The Lordes arke and the Philistines Dagon the Ephesians Diana and Pauls preaching Poperie and the Gospell cannot stand together Asa was a religious Prince he suppressed idolatrie and planted Gods religion The kingdome was quiet before him and hee vanquished the Ethiopians 2. Chron. 14. 15. Chap. Iosaphat was a zealous promoter of the Lords religion Almightie God crowned him with this blessing The feare of the Lorde fell vpon all the kingdomes of the lande that were round about Iudah and they fought not against Iosaphat the Philistines brought to Iosaphat giftes and tribute siluer the Arabians brought him flocke both of rammes and goates 2. Chron. 17. Vzziah the King of Iuda prospered so long as hee sought the Lord. Almightie God helped him against the Philistines and Arabians the Ammonites gaue him tribute and his name was famous euen vnto Egypt 2. Chron. 26. Ezechias was a carefull aduancer of Gods religion The land had great quietnesse and was notably deliuered from the Assirians 2. Chron. 32. Queene Elizabeth hath planted the Lords religion Popes Gregory Pius Sixtus haue cursed her Maiestie the Popish enemies haue bene are maliciously bent against her this land as Sennacherib Rabsakeh against Ezechias and Ierusalem but God hath blessed and miraculously preserued her Highnes and Dominions as he did Ezechias Ierusalem the greatest enemies of the English natiō are the sinnes of the English nation but if we desire and obtaine pardon for our sinnes at Gods hands shal serue our God sanctifie his Sabboth more carefully then we haue done the Lord wil goe forth with our armies our captaines and souldiers shall amaze and vanquish our Popish enemies as Gedeon did the Madianites Iephthe the Ammonites and Dauid the Philistines and our gracious God will couer both Prince people with the shield of his Iustice and defend vs with the sworde of his Iudgement Obiection When the Gospell is preached stirres doe grow that appeared in Ierusalem Act. 7. in Iconium Act. 14. in Rome Act. 28. Answere I grant that stirres appeare sometimes when Gods trueth is deliuered the fault is not in the seede but in the ground It was not Elias that troubled Israel but Achab and his fathers house which forsooke the Lords commandements followed Baal 1. King 18. The holy preaching resembles medicine daylight and the heate of the sunne It is not the medicine but euil humors which distemper the body varietie of colours are not made but discerned by the day light The heate of the sunne is not the cause but the descrier of the stinke of a carrion 6. THE CHILDE OF GOD is not polluted though hee bee present at and partaker of the publique prayers Sacraments c. at such time as wicked men are present at and partakers of them IN the Prophets time there were many grosse corruptions at Ierusalem The magistrates Priests and people were greatly disordered The Lordes religion was partly contemned and partly defiled Did the holy Prophets seuer them selues from them of Ierusalem in Salomons temple Did they builde newe either Churches to assemble in or Altars to sacrifice vpon It is certaine they did not and yet they were not polluted Our Sauiour Christ was presented to the Lord in Ierusalem An oblation was giuen Luk. 2.22 Hee was afterwards partaker of the Sacrifices in Salomons temple with the Scribes Pharises vngratious people of Ierusalem My reasons are First Christ was subiect to the law Gal. 4.4 One branch of the Law was to be partaker of the Sacrifices in Salomons temple Secondly Christ in the dialogue with the woman of Samaria speaking of himselfe and the Iewes vseth these wordes We worship that which we knowe Ioh. 4.22 Vnder the worde worship are contained the sacrifices Calu. contra Anabapt The Churches of Corinth and Galatia had many and grosse sores in them Saint Paul I confesse deales very roundly with them yet hee doth not either license or cal vpon Gods seruants in Corinth and Galatia to seuer themselues from the assemblies If to be present in the assemblie had brought pollution the Apostle woulde not haue failed in this Christian dutie Let a man examine himselfe 1. Cor. 11.28 The Apostle doeth not say Let euery man examine the rest of the communicants which no doubt hee would haue giuen in charge if the lewdnesse of others did pollute Gods seruants He that eateth and drinketh vnworthily eateth and drinketh iudgement to himselfe 1. Cor. 11.29 Saint Paul saith to himselfe not to others The Apostles receiued the Lords supper with Iudas Aug. contra Lit. Petil. lib. 2. cap. 11. 23. lib. 3. cap. 106. But they were not partakers of Iudas theft Aug. contra Cresc Gram. lib. 4. cap. 26. or Iudas treason Acceditur ad vitium corruptionis vitio consensionis Aug. contra Don. post Coll. lib. That is to consent to vice is to bee corrupted with vice That Iudas was a theefe Saint Iohn reporteth Ioh. 12. vers 6. That the Apostles did knowe before the partaking of the holy supper that Iudas should betray Christ appeareth manifestly in the Euangelist Matthewe Matt. 26. vers 21 23 25. The most famous men before and in our time are of my side Augustine in his writings against Petilian Parmeniā Cresconius the Donatists and Caluin in his treatise against the Anabaptistes are very peremptory in this Argument None can or wil mislike it vnlesse they be alreadie or meane to bee Donatistes or Anabaptistes Obiection The Apostle commaundes vs to withdrawe our selues from euery brother that walketh inordinately 2. Thess 3.6 Answere We must withdrawe our selues Quoad priuatam consuetudinem non quoad publicam communionem that is touching priuate conuersation not touching publike partaking of the worde and Sacraments Caluin is of this Iudgement in his treatise against the Anabaptistes If any shall gather of this I haue set downe that I am content to admit notorious sinners to the holy table he doth me great wrong and is refuted in my treatise of the Sacraments where I vse these wordes It is a great sinne for a knowen wicked man either to minister the Lordes supper or to present himselfe to the holy communion and such lewdnes must bee seuerelie punished by them in whose handes it is to redresse it But if this grosse sinne be practised and no medicine vsed to cure it the godly must content them selues with griefe for these enormities and remember that the Sacrament sealeth vp Gods sweete promises to them which the wicked sort at no hand are partakers of 7. THEY VVHICH VVERE baptized in the Popish Church by Popish Priestes receiued true Baptisme touching the substance of Baptisme THe Popish priestes doe retaine the essential forme of Christs baptisme that is they doe baptise in the name not of Pope or idoles but of the holy Trinitie therefore it
is not mans but Gods baptisme which is deliuered by them If it be Gods baptisme I am sure it is true baptisme Maister Caluin calleth them Catabaptistes which deny that wee are rightly baptized in the Popish Church Institut lib. 4. cap. 15. Sect. 16. Obiection The Popish priestes haue no lawfull calling therefore it is no true baptisme which is deliuered by them Answere The Argument followes not I confesse that the Popish priests haue no lawful calling yet they haue a calling though a faultie one They which are not lawfully called vnto the ministery and yet sit in the chaire of the ministerie are to bee accounted in an other place then they which haue no calling Caiphas was not in deede the lawfull high priest for he entred by money the priesthood in his time was rent in peeces yet because he sate in the high priests chaire he was accounted the high priest A faultie vocation may hurt him that vsurpes an office but it doth not defile those things which are done by that partie This is master Bezaes Iudgement in his 142. question If any shall gather of this that I allowe the Popish priesthood he deserues rather a Censor then Confuter for I confesse that Sacerdotium papisticum est sacrilegium that is that the Popish priesthood is Sacriledge 8. THEY ARE THE SAcraments of Baptisme and the holy Supper which are deliuered in the Church of England by vnpreaching ministers IF such as were baptized in the popish Church receiued true baptisme I trust they are rightly baptized in the Church of England which are baptized by vnpreaching ministers If such as were baptized by popish priests in the popish Church and by vnpreaching ministers in the Church of England receiued no sacrament many grosse absurdities would followe First very many are vnbaptized and if they bee vnbaptized they sinne grieuously in not presenting themselues to the holy Sacrament Secondly a great number haue sinned grossely in partaking the holy supper My reason is None vncircumcised might eate the Passeouer Ezodus 12. verse 48. therefore none vnbaptized may receiue the holy supper Thirdly many excellent men haue vsurped the preachers office My reason is It is vnlawfull for any man to bee a publique teacher in the visible Church which is not by baptisme graft into and so become a member of the visible Church Our Sauiour Christ was baptized of Iohn in Iordane before hee preached Matth. 3. and 4. Chap. The Apostle Paul was baptized of Ananias in Damascus before hee preached Act. 9. The vnpreaching Ministers doe adde the worde vnto the Element in the administration of Baptisme therefore it is the Sacramēt of Baptisme which is deliuered by them Accedit verbum ad elementum fit Sacramentum Aug. Tract 80. in Iohan. that is The worde is added to the Element and it becoms a Sacrament By worde in Baptisme is vnderstanded the word of Institution which is to Baptize in the name of the father the sonne and the holy Ghost c. Of this iudgement are Beza confess Cap. 4. Art 47. and Musculus de sig Sacram. Art 4. Obiection Christ sayde to his Apostles Goe and teach all nations baptizing c. Matth. 28. vers 19. therefore if the word preached be not added to the Element it is no Sacrament of Baptisme Answere The argument is very weake I confesse that Christ commanded his Apostles first to teach such as were of yeeres and alients from his religion and then to baptize them If the Gentiles had not bene first taught they would not haue offered thē selues nor the Apostles haue admitted them to the holy Sacrament of baptisme If any will conclude of this place in Saint Mathewe that none whatsoeuer may bee admitted to baptisme before they bee taught they shut our infants from the holy Sacrament and therefore are Catabaptists The vnpreaching ministers doe adde verbum adificans that is an edifying worde to the Elements in the administration of the holy supper therefore c. That there is verbum aedificans I proue it thus The summe of Christes sermon in the Institution administration of the holy supper by himselfe is the word of Institution in the administration of the holy Supper in the Church of England therefore vnlesse we wil denie the summe of Christs Sermon to be an edifying word which no learned mā wil deny we must confesse that we haue verbum aedificans in the administration of the holy supper with vs. If any will conclude of this that I mislike preaching before the administration of the Sacrament he doth me great wrong Obiection Vnpreching ministers are not apt to teach therefore they are no Sacraments which are deliuered by them Answere The argument followes not My reason is Many Iewish Priestes were both ignorant and dissolute in Esay and Christs time Esay 28. vers 7. Matth. 9. vers 36. But the Sacrifices offered and the Sacraments reached by them were both Sacrifices and Sacraments otherwise the Prophets which were at Ierusalem when the Iewish Church was full of corruption woulde not haue bene present at and partakers of the Sacrifices in Salomons Temple Calu. Institut lib. 4. cap. 1. sect 18 19. Obiection Ignorant ministers are not apt to teach therefore no ministers and consequently they are no Sacraments which are deliuered by them Answere The argument followes not I grant that it is of the substance of a lawful good minister of God to be apt to teach but it is not of the essence of a Minister simply for which it is sufficient to haue the Churches calling This appeareth clearely in the Magistrate The holy Ghost requireth that none shoulde bee chosen a Magistrate vnlesse he were a man of courage fearing God dealing truely and hating couetousnesse Exodus 18. verse 21. When such are aduanced as defile their handes either with filthie bribes as Felix did or with barbarous crueltie as Abimelech and Herode did shall we say that they are no Magistrates I confesse they are not singled out by the electors according to Almightie Gods direction in his holy Bible but they are Magistrates notwithstanding and we are commanded by the Lord to perfourme all duetie vnto them Saluo officio that is our duetie being reserued to the highest Magistrate which is God himselfe If any shall gather of this I haue set downe that I vndertake the defence of Ignorant ministers my answere is that my writings and sermons are not Aiax shielde to couer them but the Lords sworde to cutte them I confesse freely that I am very farre from opening either the Church doore to ignorant Ministers or the Pulpit doore to vnskilfull preachers which vnskilfull preachers giue Gods religion a greater blowe then the ignorant Ministers for in steade of deuiding the worde of trueth aright they speake at al aduentures yet very boldely and as vnskilfull Apothecaries deliuer quid pro quo chaffe for wheate and strange fancies for Gods holy trueth By such absurde fellowes many Churches and excellent men in this lande
haue beene greatly disquieted and the good course of religion hath beene greatly hindered The cause of this sore is intollerable pride and grosse ignorance in these bad companions and want of care in the Magistrates If any shall aske mee what the true causes are why so many vnfitte men are the Churches Ministers I answere either great want of iudgement or great corruption in such which doe ordeine and preferre them The sinne of these men is very great for they dishonour Almightie God and do grosly abuse the people of the land This disease will bee healed when the Churches maintenance is not disposed of by them which haue the golden dropsie but is freely giuen to worthie and painefull students which will neither fish with the siluer hooke nor open the Church doore with a siluer key 9. THE GODLY ARE not polluted which receiue the Sacrament at the handes of an vnpreaching Minister THE Sacramentes are Gods ordinance the Ministers ignorance cannot peruert the nature of Gods ordinance A Sacrament can neuer be without promise of saluation therefore the worthy partaker of the Sacrament receiues a blessing if a blessing then no pollution That he receiues a blessing the Apostle teacheth vs We are buried with Christ saith S. Paul by baptisme into his death c. Rom. 6. verse 4. The cuppe of blessing which we blesse is it not the communion of the blood of Christ The bread which wee breake is it not the communion of the body of Christ 1. Cor. 11. verse 16. The parents of Christ went to Ierusalem euery yere at the feast of the Passeouer Luk. 2. vers 41. their going to Ierusalem was to testifie their religion to be partakers of the sacrifices There were at that time in Salomons Temple manifold corruptions the high Priesthood was solde for money many of the Iewish Priests were ignorant yet Ioseph the virgine Mary were not polluted Calu. Luc. 2. vers 41. The godly which receiue the holy Supper of an vnpreaching Minister are not partakers of the Ministers vnworthinesse but of the holy Sacrament which is a pillar of our faith therefore the vnworthinesse of the Minister doth not defile the Communicāt Alterius siue Pastoris siue priuati indignitate non laeditur pia conscientia c. Calu. Institut lib. 4. cap. 1. Sect. 19. that is A godly conscience is not hurt by the vnworthinesse of an other either Pastor or priuate man neither are the mysteries lesse pure and healthfull to a holy man because they are then handled of such as be impure Ille qui accipit si homo bonus ab homine malo si fidelis à perfido si pius ab impio perniciosumerit danti non accipienti Illud quippe sanctum malè vtentem iudicat bene accipientem sanctificat Aug. contra Cresc gram lib. 2. cap. 28. that is he which receiueth if a good of an euill man if a faithfull of a faithlesse man if a godly of a wicked man it will be hurtful to the giuer not to the receiuer for that holy thing he meaneth the sacrament doth iudge him which vseth it ill but doeth sanctifie him which receiueth it well Circumcision was one of the Lords Sacraments in the Iewish Church The Iewes which were circumcised of impure priestes and Apostates receiued no hurt therefore no pollution Calu. Institut lib. 4. cap. 15. Sect. 16. The Sacraments neither are nor can be the worse for the ignorance or vnworthinesse or better for the learning or worthinesse of any man whatsoeuer Whosoeuer thinketh otherwise is a Donatist Touching this point of the Sacrament I rest wholy in Augustines iudgement his wordes are these Ego dieo meliùs per bonū ministrū quà m per malū dispensari sacramenta diuina verùm hoc propter ipsum ministrum melius est vteis rebus quas ministrat vita moribus congruat non propter illum qui etiam si incurrerit in ministrum malum dispensantem veritatem securitatem accipit à domino suo monente ac dicente Quae dicunt facite quae autem faciunt nolite facere dicunt enim non faciunt Addo etiam ad hoc esse melius vt ille cui ministratur ministri boni probitatem ac sanctitatem diligendo faciliùs imitetur Sed non ideo veriora sanctiora sunt quae ministrantur quia per meliorem ministrantur Illa namque per seipsa vera sancta sunt propter Deum verum sanctum cuius sunt ideo fieri potest vt accedens ad societatem populi Dei alium inueniat à quo facilè baptizetur alium eligat quem salubriter imitetur Certus est enim sanctum esse Sacramentum Christi etiamsi per minùs sanctum vel non sanctum hominem ministratum est se autem eiusdem ipsius sacramenti sanctitate puniri si indignè acceperit si malè vsus fuerit si ei non conuenienter congruè vixerit August contra Cresc Gram. lib. 4. cap. 20. The summe of Augustines wordes is that the Sacrament is administred better by a good then by a bad Minister yet that the Sacraments of themselues are true and holy c. by what minister so euer they be deliuered c. If any shall aske mee whether it be lawful to omit the partaking of the holy Sacrament in such Churches ouer which ignorant ministers are set and to present our selues and our infants to the holy Sacrament in other Churches my answere is that I referre them to the Magistrate and Gouernours of our Churches c. Obiection By whome a thing ought not to be deliuered by another it ought not to bee receiued but ignorant ministers ought not to deliuer the Sacraments therefore c. Answere The Maior is false My reason is An euill man ought not to deliuer the worde of God but wee ought to receiue it An euill man ought not to giue almes but a poore man may receiue it An absurde minister ought not to deliuer the Sacrament but they are not polluted which receiue it Obiection They of whose ministerie there is a Nullitie before God although they haue an outwarde calling ought not to bee accompted ministers therefore not to bee communicated with I. Penry pag. 43 44. Answere I denie your Antecedent My reasons are First there was a Nullitie before God of Caiphas Priesthoode for hee entred by money and the Priesthood was deuided betweene him and Annas against the Lords order Calu. Luc. 3. yet Caiphas is called the high Priest by the Euangelists Mat. 26. Ioh. 18. Secondly there was a Nullitie before God of the ministerie of some in Philippos which preached Christ of contention and to adde more affliction to Pauls bandes Philip. Chap. 1. verse 15 16. But these are accompted ministers by the Apostle vers 15 18. If any shall deny that there was a Nullitie before God of their ministerie I prooue it thus They had not an inward calling M. Penry saith that an inward calling is contained in the
in M. Penryes treatise c. By R. SOME Doctour of Diuinitie ROM chap. 16. vers 17.18 I beseech you brethren marke them diligently which cause diuision and offences contrary to the doctrine which yee haue learned and auoy de them For they that are such serue not the Lord Iesus Christ but their owne bellies and with faire speach and flattering deceiue the hearts of the simple Imprinted at London by G.B. Deputie to Christopher Barker Printer to the Queenes most excellent Maiestie 1588. TO THE READER I Did publish a short Treatise in May last It hath pleased one M. Penry to examine part of it and as an other Aristarchus to censure it His booke was sent me I haue viewed it and doe finde strange things in it Aduise was giuen me not to vouchsafe an answere because M. Penry is very ignorant and his Treatise very sillie and corrupt stuffe I considered waightely of it but resolued to take some paines The reasons which induced me are First S. Paul vouchsafed in Gods cause to deale with Demetrius the siluer and Alexander the copper smith The Prophet Ezechiel in the like cause did set himselfe against certaine wicked women c. Ezech. 13. Secondly many haue beene mislead by his absurd fancies To cure these if God will and to stay other my labour is not amisse Lastly I am personally both charged and chalenged by him therefore it became me to take pen in hand M. Penries booke is a fardle of grosse errours None accompt of it but such as are of the fantasticall crewe men extremely both proude and ignorant He hath as many learned men of his side as H. N. the prince of the familie of Loue had of his that is neuer a one therefore a little Arithmetique will serue to number them If it had pleased him to haue considered of and rested in the iudgement and direction of very famous men and Churches he had not swarued from Gods booke he had sailed by a sure compasse he had not broched such fancies as Gods Church with one voyce condemneth Nestorius was an absurd heretike he had some sparkles of eloquence by nature hee was in his owne opinion learned but in deede very ignorant his pride was such that he vouchsafed not to reade any interpreters Socrat. lib. 7. cap. 32. I assure my selfe that M. Penry is very farre from Nestorius heresie I would he were as cleare ofpride and contempt of writers Caluine Beza c. men of excellent learning are cast off by him euē in those waighty causes wherein they shake hands with all the Churches of God I doe not belie him I charge him iustly it shall appeare so by Gods grace in this Treatise The question betweene him and me is not whether ignorant men may either enter into or continue in the holy ministerie for my resolution is negatiue that is that they ought not but the question is whether such as were and are baptized by Popish priests and ignorant ministers haue and doe receiue a Sacrament and whether the godly communicant is polluted by receiuing the Sacrament at the hands of vnpreaching ministers The most famous men and Churches are peremptorie for me and against him Yea M. Penry himselfe ioyneth with me in many partes of his Treatise in some other partes I confesse he sings an other song absurde for matter and out of tune for manner This inconstancie of his proceedes from a vaine humour which as a whirle-winde doeth strangely carrie and ouer-carrie him It is not in my handes to heale him if it were I woulde with all my heart I will pray vnto God to cure him Cathedram in coelo habet qui corda docet All that I desire of the godly Reader is that he wil reade my Treatise before he giue sentēce Otherwise I may iustly charge him to bring not iudicium but praejudicium that is to be very partiall Let him in Gods Name compare my arguments and answeres with my aduersaries and weigh them in equall balance if hee doeth not see clearely and feele sensibly his grosse errors Anabaptisticall fancies his eyes are dimme his fingers are benummed That he may haue present and speedie viewe of the pearles in his booke I haue set downe in a Table diuers strange particulers If they seeme harsh and rough-hewen blame M. Penry for they come out of his forge Yea I dare be bolde to say that if the Spiders webbe bee good cloth and the Cockatrice egges holsome meate then such points as I refute in this Treatise are very excellent Diuinitie I am not alone of this iudgement the worthiest Diuines in this land iumpe with me and do mislike and condemne his absurdities It pleased God to assist mee graciously in the paines I haue taken I thanke his Maiestie very humbly for it I doubt not but that he will giue a blessing vnto it The Lord giue vs grace to see and know our ignorance to be truely humble to grow in godly knowledge and not in Anabaptistical and blasphemous fancies London Septemb. 19. 1588. Necessaria ignoramus quia non necessaria discimus A TABLE OF SOME PRINcipall particulers conteined in this treatise ALmightie God neuer called any to bee Magistrates but hee furnished them accordingly Chap. 3. pag. 59. 60. 61. Magistracie is Gods ordinance not a deuise of man Chap. 13. page 136. 137. The reading of the holy Scriptures doeth edifie Chap. 4. pag. 62. 63. 64. The Scripture is of credit in it selfe Chap. 8. page 102. The Popish church is a church though not a sounde Church Chap. 17. pag. 147. 148. 149. 151. and Chap. 23. pag. 176. Whosoeuer sayeth or writeth that our Queene is a Schismatique for separating herselfe her subiects from the popish Church if the popish Church be a Church in any regard maketh a grosse and Popish collection and is at the least an vnduetifull subiect Chap. 17. page 151. Whether no more fellowship is to be had with papists in religiō matters then with pagane Idolaters Cap. 23. pa. 181. Amightie God neuer called any to the holy ministery either in the old or new Testament but he furnished them with gifts fit for that holy function Chap. 2. pag. 55. 56. c. Such as are in the ministerie and haue gifts in no measure ought to be remoued by the Magistrates and gouernours of the Church Chap. 9. page 110. None vnbaptized may be a publique teacher in the visible Church Chap. 8. page 93. Popish priests haue a calling though a faultie one Chap. 18. page 154. 155. The approbation of the Church maketh him a minister to vs which is not called by almighty God Cap. 12. pa. 132. They were sacrifices and Sacraments which were deliuered by the ignorant Leuiticall Priestes Chap. 8. pa. 104. The godly are not polluted which receiue the Sacraments at the hands of vnpreaching ministers Chap. 9. page 108. 110. 113. 114. 115. and Chap. 14. page 138. A Sermon is not required necessarily to the essence of a Sacrament Chap. 7.
page 84. They amongst vs which are vnbaptized doe sinne grienously if they doe not present themselues to baptisme Chap. 8. page 88. They which are once baptized must not be baptized againe Chap. 19. page 156. They which were baptized of Popish priestes in the Popish Church receiued true baptisme c. chap 7. page 79. and chap. 8. page 88 89. and chap. 20. page 156. 157. The false profession of Christ in popery doth not proue that the true Christ is not in popish baptisme cap. 23. pa. 174. Whether infants ought rather to be kept vnbaptized then to be presented to popish baptisme chap. 23. page 180. The infāts of papists may be baptized in a reformed church if some of the religion do present them to baptisme do vndertake the godly education of them cha 17. pag. 150. There hath bene may be true baptisme out of the church chap. 21. page 158. Though true baptisme was amōgst the Donatists out of the Church August did not giue leaue to any of the church to presēt their infāts to be baptized there cap. 21. pa. 159. They are the Sacraments of Baptisme and the holy Supper which are administred by vnpreaching ministers in the church of England chap. 8. page 88. 89. 95. 98. None vnbaptized may receiue the holy supper chap. 8. page 90. 91. 92. It is lawful to administer the holy supper in a priuate house if some cautions be obserued chap. 15. page 141. 142. Euery legall vncleannes was not ioyned with sinne chap. 9. page 113. The regenerate cannot fulfil the law of God cha 26. pa. 199 A TABLE OF DIVERS grosse errours and Anabaptisticall fancies conteined in M. Penryes Treatise c. Master Penry saith That the life of the Magistracie is neither prescribed in the worde for so there could be no Magistrates out of the Church nor any in the Church but such as are prescribed in the word which were impious to thinke nor conteined in the gifts of the Magistracie nor yet separated from his outwarde calling For the very outward calling is it that giueth life vnto the Magistracie though the person susteining it want gifts to discharge the same The reason hereof is euident because the Magistracie being an humaine constitution as the holy Ghost saith 1. Pet. 2.13 is appropriated vnto his possession vpō whomsoeuer man bestoweth the same if hee be capable to possesse though vnfit to execute what is a lotted vnto him In his addition page 48. This speach of M. Penryes is very grosse His first reason is this there may be Magistrates out of the Church therefore the life of the Magistracie is not prescribed in the word M. P. Antecedent is true For Pharao Nero Iulian were magistrates out of the Church I deny his argument My reason is the gifts of courage fearing God dealing truly hating couetousnes which are the life of the Magistrate are prescribed in Gods booke Exo. 18.21 Deu. 1.13 If you say they are not the life of the magistracie you dissent from all the learned and therfore must set downe what God requireth of him that should be his Magistrate His second reason is this There are and may be magistrates within the Church which are not garnished with the aboue named gifts therefore the life of the Magistracie is not prescribed in the word My answere is I confesse that absurd Magistrates haue bene and are many times aduanced in the Church I graunt they should not either by the corruption or errour of the electours But I deny your argument My reason is It is great wickednes to thinke because grosse Electours preferre vnfit men and so faile in their duetie that Almightie God hath failed in prescribing what kinde of men he would haue to be his lieutenants M. Penry addeth that the life of the Magistracie is not conteined in the gifts of the magistracie I dissent from him in this If he had said that the birth of the magistracie is not conteined in the gifts of the magistracie he had hit the white M. Penry writeth that the life of the magistracie is not separated from his outward calling for the very outward calling saith he is it that giueth life vnto the magistracie If this were true then the life and birth of the magistrate are idem tempore that is twinnes and consequently whosoeuer hath the outwarde calling which is the birth hath the inwarde calling which is the life of the magistrate So is Gods furniture tyed to the electours voices as to the chaire and the inward outward calling of the magistrate confounded which is a palpable errour If there bee an outward calling to the magistracie without the which no man howsoeuer furnished within may presume to execute the office of the magistrate I am sure there is an inward calling to the magistracie For the outwarde calling doeth import an inward If there be an inward calling which is by God himselfe what I beseech you is it but such furniture and gifts as are prescribed and required in the holy word The foundation whereupon M. Penry hath built his former absurdities is a very rotten post that is a grosse deprauing of a text of Scripture viz. The Magistracie is an humaine ordinance 1. Pet. 2.13 that is a deuise of man and not an Ecclesiasticall constitution prescribed in the worde That the magistracie is not any deuise of man but Gods ordinance for the benefite of man is a cleare trueth in Gods booke None doubt of it vnlesse they be Anabaptists or extremely ignorant M. Penry saith that the word barely read and to no other purpose then to edifie by reading is not holsome doctrine Chap. 8. pag. 99. This is a blasphemous absurditie M. Penryes reasons for it are most absurd and childish I referre you to my answere Chap. 8. pag. 100. 101. and to a proposition which I haue handled Chap. 4. pag. 62. c. M. Penry writeth that it is false to say that the recitall of the summe of Christes Sermon that is the word of institution c. is an edifying word he saith it mainteyneth charming Chap. 8. pag. 88. 89. This is a blasphemous absurditie If euery part of the Canonical Scripture doth edifie I trust the summe of the Lord Iesus Sermon ought to haue singuler allowance If it ought to haue singuler allowance it may not be indited and arraigned for maintenance of charming M. Penry saith that the people cannot sanctifie a Sabboth without a Sermon His words are these They are no ministers whose flocks by their ministery can not sanctifie the Sabboth our Readers are such c. In his addition pag. 60. M. Penry accounteth the publique reading of the holy Scripture and publique prayers no part of the sanctification of the Sabboth If he had said that the Sabboth is not so well sanctified without as with a godly Sermon I woulde haue agreed vnto him M. Penry maketh the person to giue credite to the holy word His wordes are these The word of God vttered is not an
edifying word vnlesse it be vttered according to the ordinance both in regard of the persons that vtter the same and the ende wherefore it is vttered Chap. 8. pag. 99. This is a Popish errour for the Scripture is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is of credite in it selfe Reade my answere Chap. 8. pag. 102. M. Penry saith that there is no Church at all in Popery Chap. 23. pag. 175. 176. This is a grosse errour condemned of very famous men and all reformed Churches If there be no church at all in Popery these absurdities will followe first the Pope is not Antichrist Secondly the infants of Papists may not be baptized in any reformed Church though some of the Religion doe present them to Baptisme and publiquely vndertake the good education of them Reade that which I haue written Chap. 17. pag. 147. 148. 149. and Chap. 23. pag. 176. M. Penry saith that if there be a Church in Popery our Magistrates c. are Schismatiques inasmuch as they haue separated themselues from the Church of Rome Chap. 17. pag. 151. This is a grosse and Popish collection and cannot stand with the duetie of a subiect Reade my answere Chap. 17. pag. 151. 152. M. Penry writeth that men in the Popish Church are not ingraffed by Baptisme into a true Christ His wordes are these Where there is no true Christ whereunto men can be ingraffed by Baptisme there true Baptisme as touching the substance cannot be gotten c. But in Popery there is no true Christ whereinto men may be ingraffed c. Chap. 23. pag. 173. This is a grosse errour condemned of all famous writers and Churches Reade that which I haue written Chap. 23. pag. 173. 174. and cha 20. pag. 156. 157. Maister Penry writeth that if baptisme administred by vnpreaching ministers were denied to be a Sacrament he would wish none to offer themselues to that holy Sacrament for sixe causes First we are already receyued into the bosome of the Church and acknowledged to haue the seale of the couenant in as much as we were once offered and receyued into the number of the godly by the outwarde elemēt though corruptly To what end then should baptisme serue vs againe In his exhort to the gouernonrs c. of Wales pag. 31. If this be true which M. Penry saith the outwarde and bare element deliuered by him which in M. Penryes iudgement is no minister is the seale of Gods couenant Which is a most absurd heresie Secondly the absolute necessitie of baptisme to saluation by this meanes might seeme to be mainteined False They which require men vnbaptized to offer themselues to Baptisme are perswaded that the contempt of the Sacrament is damnable they doe not thinke that all which die without Baptisme if contempt bee absent are damned Besides Baptisme is necessarie in respect of our obedience but what obedience is performed when Baptisme is refused Thirdly least wee should seeme to agree with the heretical Catabaptists If no Baptisme was deliuered by vnpreaching ministers M. Penry is an hereticall Catabaptist if hee dehort any such from holy Baptisme as were baptized by vnpreaching ministers Fourthly other Churches haue not publikely decided the cause They needed not They made no question of it for with one voyce they condemne your Anabaptisticall fancies Fiftly that the practise should not enforce them to bee rebaptized which haue bene alreadie baptized by such as had commission from the Lord to deale in those mysteries If they be already baptized no reason they should desire a second Baptisme for Baptisme may not be iterated I haue prooued this point in my Treatise of the Sacraments and in this booke Chap. 19. pag. 156. Lastly they who being nowe in the age of discretion haue beene baptized by Idoll ministers are either called or not called to saluation If called why should they be rebaptized seeing alreadie they haue bene made partakers of the outward element and accompted in the number of Christians If not called neither should they be baptized vntill they declared by their workes that they were Gods children If they receiued the Sacrament before they neede not If they receiued no Sacrament they cannot absteine from Baptisme without intollerable both sinne and vengeance None that are effectually called either haue or will refuse to offer themselues to Baptisme which Baptisme before they had not Cornelius example doeth teach vs that Acts. 10. Yea I dare be bold to say that her Maiesties subiects which are vnbaptized and do not offer themselues to Baptisme are not as yet effectually called whatsoeuer either they or you pretende The reason is None are effectually called which are not within the compasse of Gods couenant The words of Gods couenant are these I will be thy God and the God of thy seede Gen. 17. Are they within the compasse of this couenant which either wittingly omit or wilfully refuse Baptisme which is the seale of Gods couenant M. Penry sayth that the preaching of the worde is necessarily required in the administration of Baptisme chap. 7 pag. 82. If this were true al such as were Baptized without a Sermon receiued no Sacrament I referre you to my answere Chap. 7. pag. 84. M. Penry sayeth that Baptisme is not out of the Church Chap. 23. pag. 176. This is a grosse errour Reade that which I haue written Chap. 21. pag. 158. c. M. Penryes iudgement is that Queene Elizabeth and many thousandes in England are vnbaptized That his iudgement is such I proue it by his owne wordes He writeth thus c. In Popery there is no true Christ whereunto men may be ingraffed c. And a litle before What Baptisme is that which is not an ingraffing into the true Christ Chap. 23. pag. 173. A litle after he hath these words There is no Church at all in Popery chap. 23. pag. 175. 176. And in an other place c. that Baptisme is not out of the Church If M. Penry shall answere that it was Baptisme in the Popish church yesterday but it is not so either to day or to morowe because the Christ professed now in Popery is not a true but a deuided Christ I must needes tell him that Christ in the Popish profession was diuided as well when her Maiestie c. was Baptized as he is deuided in the Popish profession in this day Besides M. Penry writeth that the Popish church was neuer the Temple of God since Antichrist planted his pestilent chaire therein Chap. 22. pag. 165. To conclude seeing there is in M. Penryes iudgement no Church no Baptisme no Ministery in the Popish church c. I may be bold to affirme that in M. Penryes iudgement her Maiestie and many thousandes more are vnbaptized M. Penry saith that the holy Supper is an extraordinary Sacrament which is deliuered priuately by a Minister Chap. 14. pag. 139. This error is condemned by M. Caluine whose resolution is that it is lawfull to administer the holy Supper priuately if certaine cautions be
you see by the way which may not be forgotten that an argument may bee drawen from the Leuiticall priesthood to the ministerie of the newe testament which priesthood and ministerie are not twinnes are vnmatcheable and cannot stand together I confesse my selfe greatly bound vnto you you deale very liberally with me for you reach me arguments as weapons to smite your selfe withall M. Penry a little after in steede of answering my reason asketh a question after his vsuall manner Did saith he none of the vncircumcised Leuites teach Iacob the lawe or offer incense c. I answere First that no such thing appeareth in the text Secondly that it is against the practise of the Leuiticall priefts in the olde Testament Did euer any student deale so childishly as M. Penry doth is not he a very fit man to censure famous men Churches Caluine Martyr Beza Augustine c. are no body with him I did neuer see him that I knowe of but ex vnguibus leonem I see by his answeres what a deepe clarke he is I. Penry Thus many things you see might be obiected against your reasons and I take the obiections to be of some waight It had bene well you had considered of them before you had published your booke And the Baptisme by vnpreaching ministers must haue better proofes then any you haue brought as yet or els I feare me our posterities will not be satisfied therewith R. Some Your wayghtie obiections are inuincible in your eye Suum cuique pulchrum But they haue neither Suczum nor Sanguinem they haue no pith in them they are lighter then any feather and bewray your ignorance You wish I had considered before hand of your obiections Satis pro imperio You are by your leaue a litle too lordly had I nothing to thinke of but of your absurde fancies you imagine very basely of me My arguments for baptisme by vnpreaching ministers are such as you are vnable to stirre for proofe of this I referre the reader to your vnscholerlike answeres Your feare that the posteritie will not rest in my reasons is a vaine feare c. R. Some The vnpreaching ministers doe adde the worde vnto the Element in the administration of Baptisme therefore it is the Sacrament of Baptisme which is deliuered by them Accedit verbum ad Elementum fit Sacramentum August Tract 80. in Iohan. that is The worde is added to the Element and it becomes a Sacrament By worde in Baptisme is vnderstanded the worde of Institution which is to baptize in the name of the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost c. Of this iudgement are Beza confess Cap. 4. Art 47. and Musculus de sig Sacram. Art 4. I. Penry Your next reason page 23. is slender Readers pronounce the wordes of Institution with the deliuerie of the Element therefore say you they deliuer a Sacrament You haue once already alledged this to prooue popish baptisme page 20. I haue answered it page 29. 30. 31. And the place of Matth. 28.19 brought in by you page 23. prooueth your consequent to bee false For it sheweth that hee who is to baptize must bee also able to teache which abilitie is wanting in our Readers Goe sayth our Sauiour and teache all nations baptizing c. Therefore if hee that deliuereth the Element be not able to teache we cannot be assured that it is a Sacrament Because the commaundement is not generally to all that coulde pronounce the wordes of Institution being thereunto permitted by the corruption of the time but particularly limitted vnto them that can teache vnlesse you will say that the Lorde biddeth them goe teache who cannot teache which were not once to bee conceiued of his Maiestie R. Some Whatsoeuer passeth from me is slender in your opinion All that you deliuer is ex tripode an oracle at the least You answered before wisely like your selfe So you doe in this place semper idem you are no changeling You deny my consequent and doe adde for your reason an obiection set downe by me a litle after My answere to that obiection is extant and very direct I rest in it I did neuer say or thinke that Almightie God did either command or allow any to be a priest in the old or a minister in the new Testament which had not gifts in some measure It pleaseth you to write in your treatise that vnfitnes to teach made not a nullitie of the Leuiticall priests office If you meane that it made not a nullitie before God you conceiue very basely of Almightie God for you make him to allowe ignorant men to be his priests in the olde Testament which absurde course would haue brought great dishonour to his Maiestie and great hurt to the Church of the Israelites I doe nowe but touch this grosse and blasphemous paradoxe of yours and with the dog of Egypt doe as it were sippe and away but I will examine it more surely hereafter that the reader may see clearely as in a Christall glasse what base ware you commend vnto vs for excellent diuinitie I. Penry The corruption in the Church of Englande that the deliuerie of the Element shoulde be seuered from the preaching of the worde is a breach of Gods ordinance you cannot deny Matth. 28.19 Actes 20.7 and therefore vngodly and intollerable Whether it make the action frustrate or no that is not the question R. Some You meane as I take it by the worde added to the Element the worde preached but you doe not say flatly here though you haue a little before that the want of a Sermon maketh the action frustrate that is the sacrament to be no sacrament I confesse that Paul preached at Troas in the administration of the holy Supper Act. 20.7 and that the Apostles did teach the Gentiles before they baptized them Mat. 28.19 But no learned man will conclude of this that a Sermon is simplie necessarie to the Essence of a Sacrament If you will know what I thinke of sound preaching before the administration of the holy sacramēt my answer is that I do greatly both like and commend it Yea I doe wish with all my heart that all the Churches in Englande had able teachers to performe that dutie This minde was I euer of since I knewe what Gods religion and good diuinitie meant Of this minde are all godly and learned men in the Church of England An obiection of the fantasticall sort Christ sayde to his Apostles Goe and teach all nations baptizing c. Matt. 28.19 Therefore if the worde preached bee not added to the Element it is no sacrament of Baptisme Answere The Argument is verie weake I confesse that Christ cōmanded his Apostles first to teach such as were of yeres and alients from his religion and then to baptize them If the Gentiles had not bene first taught they woulde not haue offered themselues nor the Apostles admitted them to the holy sacrament of Baptisme If any will conclude of this place in saint
reason from the outward calling of readers I referre to your next chapter where they are repeated thither nowe I am come where the contradictory of the question shal be set downe and proued briefely because the nullitie of the vnpreaching ministery may be in steade of a thousand reasons to proue the same R. Some My obiections are seuerall whatsoeuer you say Any one that hath but halfe an eye may easily see it by my seuerall answeres I haue set downe the obiections as they were deliuered to me The confutation of my answeres if it be any is foorth comming you say in an other place I haue sought for it but I cannot finde it It is shrunke I feare in the wetting R. Some If any shall gather of this I haue set downe that I vndertake the defence of ignorant ministers my answere is that my writings and Sermons are not Aiax shielde to couer them but the Lords sworde to cutte them I confesse freely that I am very farre from opening either the Church doore to ignorant ministers or the pulpit doore to vnskilfull preachers which vnskilfull preachers giue Gods religion a greater blowe then the ignorant ministers for in stead of diuiding the word of trueth aright they speake at all aduentures yet very boldely and as vnskilfull Apothecaries deliuer quid pro quo chaffe for wheate and strange fancies for Gods holy trueth By such absurde fellowes many Churches and excellent men in this land haue bene greatly disquieted and the good course of religiō hath bene greatly hindered The cause of this sore is intollerable pride and grosse ignorance in these bad companions and want of care in the Magistrates I. Penry I am as farre from accounting the vnskilfull preachers which speake hand ouer head they care not what against whome your complaint is very iust to be ministers as I am from acknowledging many of our absucde doctors to be apt to teach who can bring nothing into the Pulpit but that which other men haue written and that very often so fit to the purpose of edification as the reason from the corner to the staffe is soundly concluded In these three sortes of supposed ministers and there coulde be a fourth added vnto them confisteth the woe of our Church R. Some Is my complaint iust against vnskilful preachers Doe you M. Penry wipe them out of the rolle of ministers Will you shut the pulpit doore against them Take heede what you doe You bidde your selfe losse Your kingdome will then fall to the ground for vnskilfull preachers are your Bulwarks and Blockhouses to support your fancies The absurde Doctors you mention shall haue no defence of mee If they preach as you write for that duetie and loue I owe and beare to the Church and Vniuersities I woulde both they you were disgraded and they kept out of the Pulpit and your writings out of the Presse I hope some good will growe by your writings First that the Vniuersities will take better heed vpon vvhom they bestow their degrees Secondly that the Magistrates vvill looke better to the Printing houses By the fourth sort of supposed Ministers vvhich you vvrite of I knovve not vvhom you meane I could ghesse shrevvdly but I vvil not because I vvill not misconstrue you If they or any other be the murraine of our Church I vvoulde they vvere either reformed or remooued R. Some If any shall aske me what the true causes are why so many vnfit men are the Churches ministers I answere either great want of iudgement or great corruption in such which doe ordeine and preferre them The sinne of these men is very great for they dishonour Almightie God and doe grosly abuse the people of the land This disease will be healed when the Churches maintenance is not disposed of by them which haue the golden dropsie but is freely giuen to worthie and painefull students which will neither fish with the siluer hooke nor open the Church doore with a siluer key M. Penry sayeth nothing to this CHAP. 9. THE GODLY ARE NOT polluted which receiue the Sacrament at the hands of an vnpreaching Minister I. Penry BY pollution I doubt not you meane sinne R. Some I doe so R. Some The Sacraments are Gods ordinance the ministers ignorance can not peruert the nature of Gods ordinance I. Penry The Ministers ignorance say you page 28. cannot peruert Gods ordinance and againe page 29. the Sacraments are not the worse for the ignorance of the minister c. All this I graunt but bare readers are not ministers and the doubt is whether the action performed by them be the ordinance of God whether it bee a Sacrament These be the questions which you ought to haue proued and not haue taken them as principles though you doe this the third and fourth time R. Some Your writings are like the winde not long in one corner Before you denied it not to be a Sacrament which was deliuered by vnpreaching ministers here you doubt of it You erred either then or now Were he not a wise man that would followe your humour The rocke he should builde on should be nothing but sand his building should be as the wall in Ezechiel dawbed with vntempered morter If vnpreaching ministers haue administred a Sacrament in your iudgement I am sure you cannot deny them to haue a calling for you will not accompt it a Sacrament which is deliuered by priuate men But let vs see what you write in an other place of this argument I. Penry If vnpreaching ministers be no ministers and if I cannot be assured to receiue a Sacrament but onely at the hands of a minister then cannot I assure my selfe that an vnpreaching minister can deliuer a Sacrament vnto me and therefore it is vnlawfull for me or any Christian to goe vnto an vnpreaching minister for the Sacraments if vnlawfull then a sinne if a sinne then the godly are polluted which goe vnto them for the Sacraments R. Some If vnpreaching ministers were no ministers as you affirme and I denie then I would confesse that a Sacrament might as easily be had of them as water of a drie ditch But what if some did minister the Sacrament in the Apostles times which were not preachers very famous men are of that iudgement Caluine vpon these wordes of the Apostle Christ sent me not to baptize but to preach the Gospel 1. Cor. 1.17 writeth thus There were fewe to whom the office of preaching was committed but the administration of Baptisme was committed to many Martyr writeth thus vpon the same place of the Apostle Munus tingendi c. that is the administration of Baptisme may bee committed to euery one in the Church but not the office of preaching Chrisostome vpon that place of S. Paul hath these vvordes Euangelizare perpaucorum est c. that is fewe are able to preach but euery one may baptize that hath a calling Of this iudgement are Ambrose Hemingius c. Augustine hath these wordes Perfectè baptizare minùs docti
possunt perfecte euangelizare multò difficilioris rarioris est operis Ideo doctor gentium plurimis excellentior Euangelizare missus est non baptizare quoniam hoc per multos fieri poterat illud per paucos inter quos eminebat August contra lit Petil. Don. lib. 3. cap. 56. I haue not set downe this as either sword or shield for ignorant Ministers My iudgement is that none ought to enter into or continue in the holy Ministerie vnlesse they haue giftes in some measure The Plough man may returne to his share the Artificer to his shop Other to their seuerall trades Almightie God will not be offended if they doe thus Yea his Maiestie wil be highly pleased Zach. 13. Ruff. lib. 1. cap. 6. Melius de media via recurrere quà m semper currere malè It is not safe to continue in a wicked course R. Some A Sacrament can neuer be without promise of saluation therefore the worthie partaker of the Sacramēt receiues a blessing if a blessing then no pollution That he receiues a blessing the Apostle teacheth vs Wee are buried with Christ saith S. Paul by baptisme into his death c. Rom. 6.4 The cuppe of blessing which wee blesse is it not the communion of the blood of Christ The bread which we breake is it not the communion of the body of Christ 1. Cor. 11.16 I. Penry M. Some saith the worthy partaker receiues a blessing if a blessing no pollution c. First it is doubted whether we may be assured that it is a Sacrament Secondly he is no worthy receiuer that receiueth of an idole Minister Thirdly there may be a blessing receiued yet pollution in the receiuer Looke 2. Chro. 30.17.18 19. Nom. 9.7 R. Some Nodum in scirpo quaeris You stumble in the plaine way My answere is First if the vnpreaching Minister haue a calling which no learned man in this land doubteth of it cannot be denied to be a Sacrament It pleaseth you inter sacrum saxum haerere to doubt of it Secondly whosoeuer bringeth faith and repentance with him to the holy Table is a worthy receiuer though the Minister be an idole The vnworthines worthines of the Minister hurtes himselfe but not the godly communicant Otherwise the holy Prophets were vnworthie receiuers which communicated with idole priestes Thirdly you adde that a blessing may be receiued and yet pollution in the receiuer 2. Chr. 30. Nomb. 9. This is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 iust from the corner to the staffe that I may vse your owne phrase Do you confute on this fashion You should haue proued that the worthy partaker of the Sacrament receiuing a blessing receiued pollution that is sinne by partaking the Sacrament Because this passeth your skill you fight with your shadowe and tell me that a blessing may be receiued and yet pollution in the receiuer That is to say that pollution is brought of the Communicant to the holy table not receiued from or by the holy Sacrament This makes nothing against that which I haue written Onely it bewrayeth your ignorance All godly men confesse that pollution that is sinne is in the holiest Communicants I meane peccatum habitans non regnans That is sinne dwelleth in Gods seruants but hath not dominion ouer them The Patriarks Nazarites Prophets Apostles had this pollution They could not shake it off in this life the best of them had their wants Only our Sauiour Christ was cleare of sinne You and I agree I am sure in this particuler If I should aske you how you proue pollution that is sinne to bee in the receiuer of the holy Sacrament you woulde referre mee to your quotations in the booke of Chronicles and Numbers Giue me leaue to examine your quotations a litle Your first place is in the Chronicles The words of the text are these Because there were many in the Congregation that were not sanctified therfore the Leuites had the charge of the killing of the Passeouer for all that were not cleane to sanctifie it to the Lord. For a multitude of the people euen a multitude of Ephraim and Manasseh Issachar and Zebulun had not cleansed themselues yet did cate the Passeouer but not as it was written Wherefore Hezekiah prayed for them saying The good Lord be mercifull toward him that prepareth his whole heart to seeke the Lord God the God of his fathers though hee be not cleansed according to the purification of the Sanctuarie 2. Chr. 30.17 18 19. All that you can proue by this place is that they of Ephraim Manasseh Issachar c. were vncleane according to the purification of the Sanctuarie that is touching some ceremonie of Moses law for which vncleannes they were dispensed with Your seconde place is in the booke of Numbers The wordes of the text are these And certaine men were defiled by a dead man that they might not keepe the Passeouer the same day and they came before Moses and before Aaron the same day And those men said vnto him we are defiled by a dead man wherefore are wee kept backe that wee may not offer an offering vnto the Lord in the time thereunto appointed among the children of Israel Then Moses said vnto them stand stil and I wil heare what the Lord will cōmande concerning you And the Lord spake vnto Moses saying Speake vnto the childrē of Israel say if any among you or of your posteritie shall he vncleane by the reason of a corps or bee in a long iourney he shall keepe the Passeouer vnto the Lord. Nu. 9. ver 6 7 8 9 10. All that you can gather of this place is that these mē which were defiled by reason of a dead mā did not celebrate the passeouer before the Lordes pleasure vvas knowen You cannot conclude either of this place in the booke of Numbers or of the former place in the Chronicles that sinne was in these which offered themselues to the Passeouer I doubt not but that these men had pollution that is sinne in them But I am sure these places neither doe nor can prooue it for you may not reason thus They of Ephraim c. were vncleane touching some ceremonie of Moses lawe therefore they were sinners If you do I deny your argument It is a certaine truth in diuinitie that not euery legall pollution was ioyned with sinne My reason is the touching of a dead body was a legall vncleannesse If it were a sinne then the buriall of the dead which is a Christian duetie and a worke of mercy should be sinne Thus you haue taken paines but to litle purpose You haue shotte I confesse but nec coelum nec terram attingis you are many scores wide R. Some The parents of Christ went to Ierusalem euery yere at the feast of the passeouer Luk. 2.41 Their going to Ierusalē was to testifie their religion to be partakers of the Sacrifices There were at that time in Solomons Temple manifold corruptions the high priesthood was solde
vt eadem prorsus à nobis iudicari debeat eo haberi in loco quo aut Mahumetana aut Iudaica quae Christum penitus repudiant ab eius legibus institutis abhorrent Nam sinulla omnino extarent in ea veteris Ecclesiae vestigia Daniel non praedixisset futuram abominationem in loco sancto nequè Paulus perditum illum filium in Templo Dei sessurum Quomodo enim sederet Antichristus in Templo Dei si nullae amplius superessent illius Templi saltem reliquiae aliqua ruinarum vestigia aut quomodo occupare abominatio lucū sanctum si totus adeò esset profanatus vt ne vllus quidem vel exiguus angulus pristinae sanctitati relictus esset Nam etsi praeualet ac latiùs dominari videtur hominum iudicio impietatis regnum Et Christi Ecclesia vsqué eò oppressa ac pene suffocata vt vix spiritum ampliùs trahere possit nondū tamen penitus animam exhalait Viret Tract de Commun fid cum Pap. cer pag. 66. 67. The summe of his wordes is first that the popish Church may not be accompted of as the Mahomet Iewish Churches which refuse Christ altogether Secondly that if no prints of Gods Church remayned in the popish Church Daniel and Paul would not haue foretold the one that abomination should be in the Holy place the other that Antichrist should sit in the temple of God Lastly that the Church of God amōgst the Papists though it be almost smothered hath not as yet giuen vp the ghost Daneus writeth that the Popish Church is the Church and Temple of God not simply but secundum quid that is after a sort His reason is because the popish Church retaineth some printe of the markes and badges of Gods Church Tract de Ant. cap. 17. M. Foxe hath these words Neque enim Romam ita totam c. In Apoc. cap. 13. pag. 235. that is we doe not so seuer Rome frō al felowship of the church that it shal haue no coniunction at all with the body of Christ If M. Penry mislike my first reason let him confute it c. 2 Ieroboam did set vp Calues at Bethel and Dan. In his time the seruice of God was strangely corrupted yet certaine prerogatiues belonging to the Church remained then amongst the Iewes Circumcision which was the Lordes Sacrament could not be so defiled by the vncleane hands of the Iewes but that it was alwayes a signe and Sacrament of Gods couenant therefore God called the infants of that people his children c. In the Popish Church God hath preserued Baptisme c. Besides there remaine amōgst them other remnants vidz the Lords prayer the Articles of the faith the Commandements c. least the Church should vtterly perish c. Lastly Almightie God hath miraculously preserued amongst them the remnants of his people though poorely and thinly scattered c. Of this M. Caluine concludeth that the popish Churches are Churches Institut lib. 4. cap. 2. sect 11.12 If my second reason taken out of M. Caluine please you not confute that part of M. Caluines Institutions 3 If there be no Church at all in Poperie the infants of Papists are not to bee baptized in any reformed Church though some of the religiō doe answere for vndertake the good educatiō of them Which I take to be a great errour Master Caluine and the rest of the learned men in Geneua being required of M. Knoxe to set downe their iudgement touching this question vidz whether the infants of Idolaters and excōmunicate persons might be admitted to baptisme c. deliuer this answere Promissio non sobolem tantum cuiusque fidelium in primo gradu comprehendit sed in mille generationes extēditur Vnde etiam factum est vt pietatis interruptio quae grassata est in papatu c. Calu. Epist 285. The summe of their words is that Gods promise doth not onely comprehend the posterity of the faithfull in the first degree but reacheth vnto a thousand generations and that those children which descended of such ancestours as were godly many yeeres ago do belong to the body of the Church though their parents and grandfathers were Apostates c. M. Beza writeth thus of this argument Iniquū esset Papistas c. Epist 10. The summe of his wordes is that Papists are otherwise to bee accompted of then Turkes because Popery is an aberratiō of the Christian Church Besides because Gods goodnes extendeth it selfe to a thousande generations that it were a hard case to iudge by the profession of the later parents whether the infants pertaine to Gods couenant c. Thus farre M. Beza If any shall reply that Gods couenant hath no place at all amongst the Papists and therefore that their infants are at no hande to bee baptized in our Churches howsoeuer some of the religion offer them in the assemblie to the holy Sacrament M. Caluines answere is Certum est adhuc illic manere residuum faedus Dei exparte quia quamuis c. Cal. Ezec. 16.20 That is It is certaine that the couenant is there on Gods behalfe and therfore that Popish baptisme needeth not to be renued besides that Satan albeit he raigned of late in the Popish Church could not altogether extinguish the grace of God imò illic est ecclesia Alioqui falsum esset Pauli vaticinium vbi dicit antichristum sedere in Dei templo 2. Thes 2.4 That is A Church is there otherwise Paules prophecie that Antichrist should sit in the temple of God were false c. If it shall please the learned reader to reade M. Caluines Commentarie vpon chap. 16. and vers 20. of Ezech. It will be worth his labour A Popish obiection of the absurde Papists and of Master Penry If the Church of Rome be a Church those Magistrates which haue separated themselues and their subiects from the Popish Church are Schismatikes c. Answere Our Magistrates people c. haue seuered themselues not from the Church but from Idolatry not from the common wealth but from tyranny oppressing the common wealth not from the Citie but from the plague which pestereth the Citie c. that is separation is not frō any trueth remaining in the Popish Church nor from the poore Church that is there holden vnder captiuitie but from the corruptions of the Popish Church and from the tyrannie of Antichrist which is more grieuous then the yoke either of Egypt or Chaldaea therfore godly princes people cannot iustly be called Schismatikes Thrasibulus withdrewe himselfe to Phile during the time that thirtie tyrants did teare in peeces the common wealth in Athens Camillus withdrew himselfe to Veies during the time that the Gaules wasted the Citie of Rome If any shal conclude of this that Thrasibulus and Camillus separated themselues from the common wealths of Rome and Athens and not from the tyrannie vnder which the Atheniens and Romanes then were hee reasoneth most absurdly c. The
they receiued true Baptisme The argument followeth for baptisme is an engraffing into the true Christ Rom. chap. 6.3 The Antecedent is manifest in M. Penries iudgement for he will not haue them to offer themselues againe to baptisme therefore he is either a Catabaptist or els there was and is euen in his iudgement true baptisme in the popish Church 2 They which were circumcised in the time of Ieroboam and Caiphas were accompted true circumcised persons although at that time the state of the Church was almost altogether peruerted and corrupted therefore such as were and are baptized in the popish Church c. This argument is vsed of the greatest learned men of the religion and is allowed of all the reformed Churches 3 Caluine and Beza are resolute for this Calu. Ion chap 1. v. 16. Ezech 16. v. 20. Epist 103. and 104. Beza Confess chap. 4. Art 49. and chap 7. Art 11. Epist 10. and 81. Viretus hath these words Baptismum qui à sacerdotibus Papisticis collatus est c. that is we do allow popish Baptisme albeit we condemne the vaine and superstitious ceremonies which are vsed in it Tract de cōmun fid cum Papist cer pag. 64. Of this iudgement are all learned men and all reformed Churches None dissent but Catabaptists Anabaptists M. Penry and the rest of the fantasticall order CHAP. 21 THERE HATH BENE AND may be true Baptisme out of the Church THe Donatists thought otherwise in Augustines time but they are notably cōfuted by Augustine in his bookes de baptis contra Don. 2 True Circumcision was amongst the Edomites 3 They which were baptized out of the Church by heretikes neither were nor might be rebaptized therefore they receiued true baptisme The Antecedent is manifest for it is a rule in Diuinitie and receiued of all learned men Baptizati ab haereticis non sunt rebaptizandi that is they which are baptized of heretickes are not to be rebaptized The reasons are Where the essentiall forme of baptisme is obserued non haereticus sed haeretici manu Christus baptizat that is not the hereticke but Christ doth baptize by the hand of the hereticke Aug. passim de bapt cōt Don. It is not the baptisme of hereticks or schismaticks but of God the Church wheresoeuer it be found and whithersoeuer translated Aug. de bapt contra Don. lib. 1. cap. 14. The heresie is theirs the errour is theirs c. but baptisme which is Christes must not be accompted theirs Aug. de baptis contra Don. lib. 3. cap. 11. Ciprian was of an other iudgemēt in the Church of Carthage but hee was condemned for that errour by the best Churches in that age 4. The Arke of the testament which was taken of the Philistims lost not the vertue of Sanctification 1. Sam. 4. Dagon can teach vs that 5 Si foris nemo potest c. that is if no mā can haue any thing which is Christs out of the Church neither can any man haue any thing which is the deuils within the Church Aug. de bapt contr Don. lib. 4. cap. 7. 6 Non itaque ideo non sunt sacramenta Christi Ecclesiae c. that is they are not therefore not the Sacraments of Christ and the Church because heretikes and wicked men do vnlawfully vse them They that is the heretikes c. are to be amended or punished but the Sacraments are to bee acknowledged and reuerently esteemed of c. Question How doe heretikes possesse baptisme Answere Baptismum legitimum habent sed non legitimè habent that is heretikes haue lawful baptisme but they haue it not lawfully Aug. de Bapt. cont Don. lib. 5. cap. 7. Neque licitè foris habetur tamē habetur sic illicitè for is datur sed tamen datur that is Baptisme is not had lawfully out of the Church notwithstanding it is had In like sort it is giuē out of the church vnlawfully notwithstanding it is giuen Aug. de Bap. contra Don. lib. 6. ca. 15. If any shall aske whether it be lawfull to offer our infants to baptisme out of the Church c. because all learned men except the Donatists c. in Augustines time and M. Penry and his worthie disciples in our time haue and doe affirme that true baptisme hath bene and may be out of the Church My answere is negatiue as Augustines was I referre the learned reader to his writings contra Cresc gram lib. 1. cap. 23. and de Bapt. contra Don. lib. 1. cap. 4. CHAP. 22. I. Penry THAT NO POPISH Priest is a Minister EVerie Minister must bee at the least by profession a member of the true Church No Popish Priest is by profession a member of the true Church Therefore no Popish Priest is a minister Euery minister hath an office within the body of the Church No popish priest hath an office within the body of the Church Therfore no popish priest is a minister The propositions or first part of both these reasons are set down euidently and plainly by the wisdome of God in these words For as we haue many members in one body and all members haue not one office so we being many are one body in Christ and euery one anothers members seeing then that we haue gifts that are diuers c. The place sheweth cleerely that whosoeuer is not a member is not of the bodie if not of the bodie then no minister Againe whosoeuer is no member he hath no office in the bodie if no office no minister He that should obiect that in this place is ment a member of the bodie by election in the secrete counsell of God and not in the acknowledgement of the Church by profession would not deserue the answering Because it is vocation and not election that maketh such a member in the Church as may haue an office therein of which sort the Apostle speaketh in this place By vocation I meane that whereof the holy Ghost speaketh where it is sayde Many are called but fewe are chosen neither can any man denie him to be a member of the Church which by outward profession submitteth himselfe vnto true religion and such are the members whereof the Apostle speaketh namely such as are members in the iudgement of the Church Iudas was a member in the iudgement of the Church though not belonging to election A further proofe of the propositions you shall find 1. Cor. 12.26.28 Hee was no priest in the olde Testament that was not a Iewe by profession yea and of the line of Aaron too and shall he be accounted a minister among vs that is a strāger from the profession of the trueth and a professed Idolater Ishmael and Esau were circumcised and the sonnes of those fathers vnto whome the couenant was made Euen I will bee thy God and the God of thy seed They and their posterities fell from true religion well admit that the profanation of circumcision had still continued in their houses yet a man supplying
he was a papist euer professed the trueth My answere is that they did and doe erre in very many things but yet they did and doe professe some trueth and I doubt not but that many which liued and died in the time of popish darkenesse died Gods seruants If you thinke that a man being wide in many things is wide in all things then because you M. Penry haue deliuered manie blasphemous Anabaptisticall and other errours I might iustly conclude that you hold nothing soundly but I wil not offer you such measure If I did I should deale absurdly with you Howe professed papists are Idolaters appeareth in my second proposition which is newly added to my former treatise Thither I referre you I. Penry Antichrist I grant should sit as God in the temple of God but it was neuer the temple of God since he planted his pestilent chaire therein Poperie in deed hath inuaded the seates and possessions of true religion and began first where the trueth was professed For the mysterie of iniquitie first appeared within the Church and not else-where where true religion flourished and not among the heathen neither could he bee that aduersarie whose beginning shoulde bee in Paganisme But although Poperie tooke roote in the soyle where the true Churche was planted yet it so grewe there that it still continued to be the synagogue of Satan and could neuer as yet be the Church of God howsoeuer it hath ouergrowen the possession thereof And what though their fathers who now are Papists were within the couenant as professing true religion shall it therefore followe that their Idolatrous sonnes should be so too If they returne the Lord hath mercie in store for them I denie not But what is there in this poynt saide for the Papists which the Iewes cannot with farre more shewe of reason pretend for themselues The profaning of Baptisme among the Papistes can make them no more be within the Church then the continuance of the profanation of Circumcision among the Ishmaelites and Edomites could keepe them vnder the couenant And why should popish Baptisme any more tye the Lords couenant to an Idolatrous race then an Ishmaelitish or Edomitish cutting off of the foreskinne linke him to be the God of those adulterous generations Oh but the Lord himselfe hath said in Isaak shall thy seede be called and Iaacob haue I loued and hated Esau Why the same Lorde in respect of his reuealed will for with his secrete election men must not meddle hath sayd the professours of true religion do I loue but the Idolatrous papists my soule abhorreth It will be here demaunded whether I make no more account of popish baptisme then of an Edomitish circumcision I see no reason why I should For a circumcised Edomite being receiued to be a true worshipper at Ierusalem should as well content himselfe with that circumcision circumcision being not a thing inuented by man or done in respect of man but ordeyned by the Lord and done in regard of the couenant made vnto Abraham as we doe with popish baptisme which is not called in question And yet that which is spoken concerning the profession of the trueth by the forefathers is not altogether true in popery for there bee many large regions nowe professing poperie where not so much as the name of Christ was heard vntill they were become grossely popish So that their first step was out of paganisme vnto poperie And this is the estate of all those poore oppressed vassals the west Indians who now in great numbers professe Romish Idolatrie For at such time as the Spanyard inuading their land brought vpon them the most miserable slauerie of the body soule that are vpon any people vnder heauen they had not so much as hearde whether there was any Christ but were most heathnish and sencelesse Idolaters as may appeare by the popish hystoriographers themselues who wrote the stories of those tymes And therefore to omit whose posterities many of the nations within Europe are that haue refused the light of the Gospel though it were granted that the rest of the popish rable were within in the couenant yet these miserable heathen papists can be said to be vnder no couenant but that which is made vnto popery and paganisme I hope M. Some howsoeuer you may be perswaded that other popish shauelings can deliuer a sacrament yet that you will doubt whether any man could be assured to receyue those holy seales at the hands of the heathen massemongers remayning in Cuba Hyspaniola Mexico or any other the Easterne parts And thus much concerning the assumption I am not ignorant that famous and worthie men haue otherwise written concerning the popish Church and therefore I am not to be pressed with their authoritie R. Some If your writings were as sounde as they are absurde they would giue many times great aduantage to the Papist Anabaptist c. If the popish church was neuer the temple of God since Antichrist planted his pestilent chaire there then in your iudgement the Pope is not Antichrist for Antichrist doth and must sit in the Temple of God that is in the Church of God I haue handled this argument before I rest in that I haue written there You say that a circumcised Edomite being receiued into the Church of Ierusalem should content himselfe with his circumcision in Idumea because circumcision was the Lords ordinance c. I agree with you in this If the Edomitish circumcision was the Lords ordinance then it was a seale of Gods couenant to the Idumeans and consequently the Edomites in your iudgement were not Aliens from Gods couenant for the seale of the couenant doth import and presuppose a couenant Besides if the Edomitish circumcision was true circumcision and the Edomitish Church no Church then a Sacrament was out of the Church c. How like you this M. Penry You knowe my meaning You adde that you call not popish baptisme in question Here I grant you doe not but a little after you vse these wordes viz. where there is no true Christ wherunto men can be engraffed by baptisme there true baptisme as touching the substance cannot be gotten c. But in popery there is no true Christ c. mendacem oportet esse memorē Your memory is very short You would neuer I thinke haue vēted such motley stuffe as this if you had thought it would haue bin looked on I can assure you that besides me whom you haue put to a litle paines your treatise hath beene viewed and reuiewed by very many learned men who condemne it for a foolish and fantasticall bable If the west Indians after profession of their beliefe in the holy trinitie were baptized as you say by popish shauelings I assure my selfe that they receiued true baptisme were therfore engraffed into Christ We in the Church of England neede not saile thanks be to God to the massemōgers in Cuba Hispaniola Mexico or any other part of the Indians we haue Gods holy
substaunce of baptisme out of the Church and that by those that are without the Church for then a sacrament might be had out of the Church which were very impious and absurd to be affirmed But popery is out of the Church and so are all popish priests Therfore no man can assure himselfe to haue the substance of baptisme in poperie by any popish priest R. Some Before that I deny any part of your reason I must tell you that I haue proued alreadie that true baptisme hath bene and may be out of the Church Ciprian thought otherwise and therefore would haue such as were baptized by excōmunicated hereticks to be rebaptized But he was and is condemned for that errour by ancient later writers You giue out very peremptorily that it is very impious and absurde to affirme that baptisme either hath bene or may be out of the Church So did the Donatists in Augustines time It is no great matter what you say Your bolt is soone shot Your water is very shallow Many points vvhich you condemne in your Consistorie for grosse absurdities are manifest trueths in the sound iudgement of all reformed Churches So is this present particuler Touching your argument I denie your Minor My reason is the Popish church is a church though an vnsound Church and Popish priestes haue a calling though a faultie one For proofe of this I referre you to that vvhich I haue vvritten before in this Treatise If you like not my reasons confute them I. Penry That there is no Church at all in poperie and that all popish priests are out of the Church besides the former reasons this one doth further shew If there be a Church in poperie or if all popish priests bee not out of the Church then those magistrates that haue separated themselues and their subiects and all others that made this separation from the Romish religion as from that synagogue where saluation is not to be had and consequently where there is no Church are schismatikes to speake the least Because it is a schisme to make this separation from the Church detest the corruptions thereof we may but make such a separation from the Church we ought not vnlesse we would be accounted schismatiks But those Magistrates and their people that made this separation are not schismatickes because in Poperie the foundation is ouerthrowen You say in your booke M. Some page 33. that you could presse the Argument of the Magistracie against me very farre Whether you may or no that shal be cōsidered when I deale with the point but this I am assured of that in this point you shall be driuen either to defend the absurditie that baptisme is to be had out of the Church in a companie estranged from Christ which I thinke you will not do or vrged so farre as to the plaine breach of a Statute which farre be it from me euen in the cause of treason Will ye say that baptisme may be had out of the Church the assertion is absurd Or will you hold that there is a Church in Poperie the assertion is dangerous and I haue prooued it false It is dangerous because it affirmeth our Magistrates to be schismatiks inasmuch as they haue separated themselues from the Church I hope rather then you will fall into either of these points that you will graunt me the cause R. Some I will answere your seuerall pointes very briefly The reason which you vse to prooue there is no Church at all in popery is this viz. If there bee a Church at al in popery the Magistrates and people which are of the religion are schismaticks at the least My answere is that this is a popish argument I haue answered it before and doe rest in that answere If either you or any of the popish sort mislike my answere you may confute it Besides if there be no Church at all in popery as you affirme why should the Churches of England Germany Dēmarke which were sometimes popish be called reformed Churches The very name of reformed Churches doth manifestly import that the Churches of England Germanie Denmarke c. though popish and vnsound were Churches in some sort before the reformation If you thinke that all the popish sorte which died in the popish Church ore damned you thinke absurdly for you dissent from the iudgement of all the learned protestants and doe presume to sit in Gods chaire which is intollerable sawcinesse To say or write that true baptisme hath beene and may bee out of the Church is a true proposition in diuinitie Augustine did maintaine it against the Donatists The most famous mē Churches in our time are of that iudgement I rest in that with all my heart You account it an absurde proposition The best is you are not master of the sentences as Peter Lumbard was If you were which God defend the sounde diuinity which is taught in Cambridge and Oxford should bee cryed downe and your strange fancies should be ruled cases The argument of the magistracy is touched before I perceiue it hath mooued you a litle for you drawe out a statute of Treasō c. What I beseech you good Sir No lesse then Treason you are a charitable man I haue do and will perfourme all dutie by Gods grace to the religion and my gracious Prince so long as I liue therefore treason statutes can take no hold of mee Yea the refutation of your blasphemous Anabaptisticall popish and proude errours by me is I am sure a performance of a speciall duetie to Almightie God my Prince and this Church And I doubt not but that blessing which God hath giuen already to my last treatise and which his Maiestie will giue to this will marre your market Great wordes shal not fray me c. If your ignorāt disciples wil stil magnifie you it shal not be strāge to me they do but their kind Such as bee learned wise haue do find you out Cognoscitur quis sit vt vt laudetur Coruus The most famous orators that euer were in Rome and Athens could not make the rauen to be no rauen Tertullus commended Felix Act. 24. but Felix was an absurde body and stripped of his office by Claudius Caesar The Samaritans commended Simon Magus Act. 8 Libanius the Sophister commended Iulian the Apostate Socr. lib. 3. cap. 22. Eunomius cōmended Aetius which was a pestilent heretike Theodor. lib. 2. cap. 29. You haue protested many times in your treatise that you reuerence me but here you offer me this choise either to defende that which is in your iudgemēt an absurditie but in deede is none or to incurre the danger of treason c. Doe you thinke that I haue any the least cause to beleeue your glorious protestations Ioab pretended extraordinarie good will to Abner and Amasa but he killed them 2. Sam. 3. and 20. chap. Ismael pretended extraordinarie good wil to them of Sichem Silo Samaria the beast shedde teares but they were Crocodiles teares for
of 80. godly men hee killed 70. of them Ier. cap. 41. Iudas kissed Christ but he betrayed him Matth. 26. You vse goodly wordes sometimes but proud malice will appeare it cannot bee hidden Marcus Cicero in his time had many hollow friendes After his returne from banishment he was reuenged of them Nihil credendo omnia cauendo that is in crediting them in nothing and bewaring of them in euery thing If I serue you so I can not bee iustly blamed You pretende great sinceritie and innocencie but your hereticall absurdities in your treatise and your shamelesse dealing with our Magistrates and learned men doe crie aloude that you are in deede very litle acquainted with sincerity and innocencie I tell you plainely that I like better Humile peccatum quà m superbā innocentiam that is humble sinne then proud innocēcie The humble Publican was more accounted of then the proude Pharisee Luk. 18. I pray God with all my heart to keepe me and all such as loue the religion and detest your Anabaptisticall fancies from such as you and the fantasticall sort are You and they are strange cattel Your hope that I will graunt you the cause you defend is a vaine hope for I thinke great scorne to be one of ignorāt Penries disciples that is a proud and ignorant Anabaptist If you will haue any thing at my hands in diuinitie matters you must gaine it by force of argument If you thinke that I will come off otherwise you are in a wrong boxe for I intend not to be at your whistle Yea I require and charge you in the name of God if you be not voyde of grace to confesse your ignorance to detest your errours to yeeld vnto Gods truth that Gods blessing may rest vpon you If you refuse to doe this take heede that Gods vengeance seaze not vpon you I. Penry Lastly if men might be assured that they could haue the true substance of baptisme in Popery then they ought not to keepe their children from Popish baptisme if there were no other baptisme in the worlde to be had For men might come to their baptisme detest their corruptions if it be Gods baptisme as you M. Some affirmed it to be pag. 20. And they can adde an edifying worde vnto the Sacrament if the recitall of the wordes of institution be an edifying word and that be sufficient to make a Sacrament both which you haue written page 23. 24. But men ought rather to keepe their children vnbaptized then to offer them to bee prophaned by Popish baptisme both for the former reasons and because wee ought to haue no more fellowship with Papists in the seruice of God then with Pagane idolaters M. Caluine hath written otherwise in this point therefore againe I appeale to the word R. Some I vvill ansvvere this section of yours both briefly and roundly by the grace of God That baptisme deliuered in the Popish church was and is Gods baptisme I make no question For proofe of this point I haue set downe waightie reasons in my former treatise One of M. Caluines an other ab Absurdo Your answeres to them are very foolish and are so accounted of by the learned sort I haue examined them a litle in this Treatise It is the iudgement of all the reformed Churches that there was is true baptisme in the Popish church Before you denied it not but now the case is altered you accompt it an errour to affirme it What mutabilitie is this Hee that would saile after your compasse for Diuinitie matters should proue as giddie as a goose I pray God with all my heart to blesse his people in England Wales and to keepe them from such blinde guides as the ignorant sort are and from such blinde guides as the ignorant sort are and from such shamelesse and fantasticall guides as you M. Penry are Concerning this question viz. whether men ought to offer their children to Popish baptisme if there were no other baptisme in the world to be had M. Penry saith one while that they ought if Popish baptisme be Gods Baptisme which before he denied not An other while he is peremptory that mē ought rather to kepe their childrē vnbaptized His reason is because we ought to haue no more fellowship with papists in Gods scruice then with pagane Idolaters The issue therefore nowe is first whether infants ought rather to be kept vnbaptized then to bee presented to popish baptisme Secondly whether no more fellowship is to be had with papists in Gods seruice then with heathen Idolaters Concerning the first question M. Caluines resolution is affirmatiue if the parents which they cannot do without peril of life do publikely detest the popish corruptions M. Caluines reason is the omitting of baptisme is contempt of Christianitie Cal. Epist 104. Of this iudgement are Melanchthon and Peter Martyr Cal. Epist 103. Viretus Tract de commun fid cum papist Cer. pag. 61 62 70. I confesse freely that this is a very waightie question but in this our time a needelesse question and that men of great excellēcie for learning haue their seueral iudgements I would be loath to stirre coales in this argument Touching the other question M. Penry saith that no more fellowship is to be had in religion matters with papists then with pagane Idolaters I dissent from him in this My reasons are first the papists professe the holy Trinitie so doe not the pagane Idolaters Secondly the papists are not altogether aliens from Gods external couenant but the heathen Idolaters as yet are Lastly M. Caluine is very flat against you in this point Epist 104. In steed of answering his reasons in that Epistle you appeale to the word A strange kind of appealing whē M. Caluines arguments are drawen out of the holy word If you wil deale plainly as you ought neuer piddle any longer goe through stitch withall seeing you are ouer shoes aduenture ouer bootes too confute Caluines 104. Epistle and that which he hath written very excellently vpon the 20. verse of the 16. chap. of Ezechiel If you giue the vnset and fayle whereof I make no question you shall lose no credite of learning for you neuer had any as yet Qui semel verecundiae limites c. you knowe the rest I. Penry Seeing therfore in Popery there is no Church no Ministery no Christ Seeing we ought in no case to be ioyned with Papistes in their religion but to be separated from them as from those that are out of the Church and such as are become a very filthy cage and nest of vncleane and sacrilegious idolaters therefore also it necessarily followeth that neither our Popish recusants nor any else offring their children to be baptized in the Popish synagogue by those polluted and vncleane Priestes may assure themselues that they can bee there partakers of true baptisme as touching the substance of baptisme R. Some Seeing therefore in the iudgement of all learned men and all reformed Churches there is in