Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
religion_n	church_n	king_n	pope_n	3,065	5	6.1057	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A45319	A short answer to the tedious Vindication of Smectymnvvs by the avthor of the Humble remonstrance.; Works. 1648	Hall, Joseph, 1574-1656.	1641 (1641)	Wing H417; ESTC R4914	50,068	120

which we have oft blusht and sighed to see laid in our dish by Popish Authors who it was that said Kings Princes and Governors have their authority of the people and upon occasion they may take it away againe as men may revoke their proxies who it was that said It is not enough for subjects not to obey but they must withstand wicked Princes Sure they were no fautors of Episcopacy that have written so bloody lines against the safety and lives of lawful Princes as I dare not transcribe that have so undervalued their power and so abased their originall small reason had you to twit me with this hatefull guilt It is but a poor put-off that you censure not my words as treasonable from my pen which from yours had received no better construction The words are the same the intimation evident and not lesse evincible then your vilifying of the judgement of that wise above all examples learned K. Iames whom whiles you smooth in words and directly oppose in his well-grounded Edict concerning the Liturgy of the Church what do you but verbally praise and really check Ye cannot therefore so easily wipe off these aspersions of uncharitablenesse by either stiffe deniall or unjust recrimination For me such is my malice towards you that I can at once convince your want of charitie and forgive it IF the Religion of King William Rufus or the infallible judgement of Pope Pius may do you any service make your best of them to me they are much alike Whatsoever Daniel the Poet not the Prophet pleased to say All Historians were not Monks nor all Monks false-tongued Would God all Divines were true The actions of this Prince blazon him more then the Historians pens whereof some have taxed him for favour of Judaisme others for touches of Atheisme all for indevotion As for the Bishops of those times I say they were Popish and in that notion tyrannicall for that dependance which they had upon him who exalts himself above all that is called GOD exalted them to their proud contestation with Princes It was their Popery therefore that made them insolent and their insolence that made them odious to Kings It hath been ye say the usuall quality of former and later Bishops to tyrannize over such as fear them and to flatter such as they fear Your tongues are your own But Brethren if this be their qualitie it is your fault that you will not suffer it to be their propertie There are those that can do this and more can tyrannize over those whom they ought to reverence and flatter those whom they should not fear As for your Pius should not the Pope have been my Antichrist I am sure he is yours Little reason therefore could you have to use his testimonie against your own profession But Why may we not you say use the testimony of Antichrist against Antichristian Bishops Brethren I understand you not I hope you have more grace then to call ours so If you have so much of the Separatist in you many good hearts will justly grieve to see that ye pretend to come forth under License sure you dare not mean you dare not say that the publique Government established here by Law is Antichristian this were to strike where you would not or if you could be so bold Authoritie might over-see but would never allow so lawlesse an affront If our Bishops be Antichristian whence is your Ordination Good speed may you have Brethren towards Amsterdam Full wittie and sound is the inference which you draw from the grounds which I give of the Popes unwillingnesse to yeeld a Divine Right to Bishops for that hee would have them derive their authoritie meerly from himself Therefore say you it follows That they have no more Divine Right then the Pope Just for the Pope thinks so pretending his own false Right and disclaiming their true But what 's this I ask to our Bishops who professe notwithstanding the Apostolicall that is Divine Right of their calling to hold the places and exercise of their Jurisdiction wholly from His Majestie You answer Surely ours have begun to affect the same exemption from secular power to make large and haughty strides towards an independent Hierarchie Where or wherein Brethren Will any Justice hold it enough to accuse I challenge your instances If you can finde an universall guiltinesse this way spare us not I shall yeeld we cannot suffer too much But if your exceptions be either none as your silence argues or particular why should not you smart for the unjust branding of a whole Order Me thinks you should shame and feare to speake of our affected independence of Hierarchy when ye know that an independent parochiall Hierarchy if it could be worth so high a name is in publique Pamphlets and open Sermons set a-foote with much earnestnesse by those who would be thought no meane ones in your fraternity And when you cannot but know that the Bishops Bench is openly challenged in the name of too much dependence upon Soveraignty Away with these idle sclanders of your innocent grave and modest governors For Mr Hooker we know you love and honour his memory dearly nothing of his can be unwelcome to us neither doubt we but that you will bee no lesse edified by his last works if they may see the light then with his first That man doth not looke as if hee meant to contradict his owne truths YE doubt to bee chid for this licentiousnesse of your pen and so you well may for it can be no lesse then a foule sclander to charge that faction upon whole Episcopacy which you dare upon urging impute but to a few The more ye say is your misery that a few Bishops can put both the Kingdomes into so dangerous a combustion True But if it be your miserie it is not our sinne Blame the guilty strike not the innocent But if but a few can doe this ye say what a stir would they all make if they should unite their powers This is in your owne phrase argumentum galeatum If a few factious Preachers in our neighbour Pulpits since the entring of this Parliament have kindled such a fire in the City and Kingdome what would they all do if their seditious tongues were all united But now ye speake to purpose If but a few were factors for this attempt how was it that one of the Episcopall tribe in open Court called the Scottish designe Bellum Episcopale Who can forbeare to smile at this doughty proofe Why Brethren was that word too big for one mans mouth Could hee not utter it without help of his fellowes Did they either say or think it the more because hee spake it What reason have you to feoffe a private conceit on all especally when the words may be capable of a lesse evill construction as referring to the Northerne rise of that quarrell not to our prosecution But where ye say were the rest of the peaceable and

grounded upon stumbling blocks it is no marvell if it fall Those you say are laid by the Liturgie and I say removed by many So yee know they are by Hooker Abbot Hutton Morton Burges Covell and I know not how many others amongst the rest I stumbled upon a blinde man whose inward sight abundantly supplyed the want of his bodily eyes who hath in many of those points given in my opinion very cleare satisfaction but sure you could not suppose me so weak as to imagine that his lack of eyes could exempt him from errour although divers of your exceptions are if they were worth our insisting upon more groundlesse then his tenets But whiles I allowed many of his passages I never meant to justifie all It is far from mee to excuse or patronize other mens Paradoxes We know the old distinction of Scandals taken and given if there be any danger of the latter it is I say under carefull hands to remove it and however it pleases you to fall into cholerick comparisons perhaps those hands which you sleight may not bee the least active To the fourth which is the Idolizing of the Liturgie I say truly Separatists abhorre it for such never true Protestant adored it for such Show us the man that ever worshipt the Service-booke that wee may wonder at that uncouth Idolatrie Show us the man that holds it the onely worship of God in England as you unjustly pretend I tell you of some others that stick not to say Too many doe injuriously make an Idol of preaching Why should you hope I am not serious in affirming so undoubted a truth yet we may not thinke of abandoning it Even in coole bloud the argument holds firme without equalizing one with the other Some have made an Idol of their silver and gold must I therefore cast away this metall You needed not feare that I would speake ought to the derogation from my owne profession But if I compare Gods ordinance of prayer with his ordinance of preaching and this individuall Liturgie with that individuall Sermon I hope there is no danger in that collation TO the fifth The great distaste which these publick prayers meet withall is truly lamentable and the effect of that distaste separation yet more Let those mis-zealous men who have infused these thoughts into well-meaning soules see how they will answer it in that great day to the Judge of the quick and dead surely if the case were mine I should feare it would fall heavie upon my soule for if it be granted that there are divers passages in our Liturgie faulty and worthy of correction yet no wise enemie can say they are so hainous that they barre all Communion Did they containe heresie or blasphemie wee could but separate from their use now their separation can no more be without our pitie then without their owne sinne Your argument hence inferred that the partition wall of our offensive Liturgie should bee removed because some brain-sick men for that title is here merely your owne not mine are scandalized thereby will no lesse hold if this our Liturgie were either altered or abolished for are there not thousands that professe to bee no lesse scandalized with any set formes whatsoever So then if wee have any prescribed or stinted devotions at all the partition wall stands still and if that should be demolished how many more and more considerable thousands doe ye thinke would be scandalized with the want of those holy formes whereto they have beene so long and so beneficially inured Here is therefore a scandall on both parts vnavoidable and it will bee our wisedome and pietie to fall upon the least You say ye thinke nay you know that some few Prelates by their over-rigorous pressing of the Service-booke and Ceremonies have made more Separatists then all the Preachers dis-affected to the Ceremonies in England I examine not the truth of your confident assertion but will you to distinguish betwixt causes and occasions The rigour of those few Prelates might be the occasion but the mis-perswasions of those dis-affected Preachers were the causes of this wofull separation Both might unhappily concurre to this mischiefe but those more who are the direct and immediate agents in so bad a service YOur last Reason is so sleightly enforced that it merits rather pitie then refutation I doe justly averre that There is no reason why difference in Liturgies should breed dis-union betweene Churches or why union in religion should binde us to the same Liturgies distinguishing as I ought betwixt Essentiall points and mere outward Formalities How faintly you reply that It is true every difference in Liturgies doth not necessitate a dis-union of Churches But here the difference is too large to be covered with a few fig-leaves Grant it to be larger then it is is it yet Essentiall The question is not what may cover our differences but what may disunite our Churches It is not formes of Liturgies but matter of obstinate and fundamentall error that can draw on such an effect Tell not me therfore or your Reader of some Ceremonies of ours that will not downe with other reformed Churches when yee may as good cheape heare of some fashions of theirs which will not downe with us It is good reason that as we give so we should take liberty in things indifferent without any reciprocall dislike As for precedency of time in our Liturgie and of dignity in our Church they may well have this operation with us that our Liturgie could not conform to that which had no being and that other Churches should rather conforme to ours which was ever noted for more noble and eminent You desire not to eclipse the glory of this Church as you professe yet you are willing to over-shadow it somewhat darkely whiles you can say Our first reformation was onely in Doctrine theirs in Doctrine and Discipline too wherein you are double-faultie first in imputing a defect to our Church most unjustly in the extent of our Reformation What Was there no Reformation but in matter of Doctrine None in matter of Practise None in Idolatrous or Superstitious rites None in offensive Customes None in corruption of Government None in lawes Ecclesiasticall What call you eclipsing if this be none Secondly in imputing that to the reformed Churches as their perfection which is indeed their unwilling and forced defect Reformation implies the renuing of a forme that once was now show us if you can where ever in the world that form of Discipline whose erection you applaud to some neighbour Churches found place before it was in this last age provisionally taken up by those who could not bee allowed with the libertie of true religion to injoy their former government As for the comparison you are pleased to mention betwixt the Liturgies of the reformed Churches and those of other Christians Grecians Armenians c. wherein you say If you should set downe what you have read in the Liturgies of those Churches you beleeve