have heard my many Sermons on this Subject in London and else where but especially to my Book called TRUTH MAINTAINED made against Mr. Saltmarsh wherein I have heartily to place that first largely and to my power strongly vindicated Non licet Populo renuente Magistratu Reformationem moliri Dr. Heylin Our Author proceeds Fol. 54. This Parliament being very active in matters of Religion the Convocation younger Brother thereunto was little imployed and less regarded Our Author follows this Design of putting matters of Religion into the power of Parliaments though he hath chosen a very ill Medium to conclude the point This Parliament as active as he seems to make it troubled it self so little with matters of Religion that had it done lesse it had done just nothing All that it did was the Repealing of some Acts made in the time of Queen Mary and setling matters in the same State in which she found them at her first coming to the Crown The Common Prayer Book being reviewed and fitted to the use of the Church by some godly men appointed by the Queen alone receiv'd no other confirmation in this present Parliament than what it had before in the last years of King Edward The Supremacy was again restor'd as it had been formerly the Title of Supreme head which seem'd offensive unto many of both Religions being changed into that of Supreme Governor nothing in all this done de novo which could intitle this Parliament to such activity in matters of Religion but that our Author had a minde to undervalue the Convocation as being little imployed and lesse regarded I grant indeed that the Convocation of that year did only meet for forms sake without acting any thing c. Fuller Yea God hath done great things for us already whereof we rejoyce And although the Animadvector is pleased to say That if this Parliament had done lesse it had done just nothing these truly were MAGNALIA so farre as the word is applyable to humane performances Dr. Heylin In the mean time I would fain know our Authors Reason why speaking of the Convocation and the Parliament in the notion of Twins the Convocation must be made the younger Brother Assuredly there had been Convocations in the Church of England some hundreds of years before the name of Parliament had been ever heard of which he that lists to read the collection of Councels published by that learned and industrious Gentleman Sir Henry Spelman cannot but perceive Fuller I confesse Convocations in their general notion more ancient and regular and completely constituted than Parliaments Yet of these Twins I called the Convocation the younger Brother properly enough First Because modern Convocations as modelled since the submission of the Clergy to Henry the eighth are many years junior to Parliaments Secondly The Convocations alwaies began the day after the Parliament the Archbishops and Bishops alwaies attending the King the first day in Parliament Lastly The Parliament hath made a younger Brother of the Convocation And there being a priority in Power he in effect is the Heir and elder Brother who confineth the other to a poor pittance and small portion as our Age can well remember Dr. Heylin Our Author proceeds Fol. 71. This year the spire of Poles steeple covered with lead strangely fell on fire More modestly in this than when he formerly ascribes the burning of some great Abbeys to Lightning from Heaven And so this steeple was both reported and believed to be fired also it being an ordinary thing in our common Almanacks till these latter times to count the time among the other Epoches of Computation from the year that St. Paul-steeple was fired with Lightning But afterwards it was acknowledged as our Author truly notes to be done by the negligence of a Plummer carelesly leaving his Coles therein since which acknowledgement we finde no mention of this accident in our yearly Almanacks But whereas our Author finds no other Benefactors for the repairing of this great Ruine but the Queens bounty and the Clergies benevolence I must needs tell him that these were onely accessories to the principal charge The greatest part hereof or to say better the whole work was by the Queen imposed on the City of London it being affirmed by Iohn Stow that after this mischance the Queens Majesty directed her Letters to the Major willing him to take order for the speedy repairing of the same c. Fuller Non est tanti all this Note The Queen and Clergy are onely mentioned by way of eminence not exclusion of others The Animadvertor commonly layeth it to my charge that in my writing I am injurious to the Church and Clergy and now he is offended with me for giving them too much honour Sure I am Mr. Camden speaking of the repairing of S. Pauls on this occasion ascribes it to the great bounty of the Queen and money gathered of the Churchmen and others where his particular nomination onely of the Queen and Church-men making them paramount Benefactors Dr. Heylin Our Author proceeds Fol. 72. In the Convocation now sitting the nine and thirty Articles were composed agreeing for the main with those set forth in the Reign of King Edward the sixth though in some particulars allowing more liberty to dissenting judgements This is the active Convocation which before I spake of not setâ—ing matters of Religion in the same estate in which they were left by King Edward but altering some Articles expunging others adding some de novo and fitting the whole body of them unto edification Not leaving any liberty to dissenting judgements as our Author would have it but binding men unto the literal and Grammatical sense Fuller But the literal and Grammatical sense is worded in so favourable and receptive terms that two opposite parties both wellâ—skilled in Grammer have with great assurance of successe pleaded them in their defence In such Cases when the Controversie is admissive of a latitude as not necessary to salvation the pious and learned Penners of the Articles though they did not purposely use Cheverel expressions to afford shelter to equivocation yet prudently seeing that all things in the Articles were not of equall concernment and politickly â—ore-seeing men would be divided and differ in their judgements about them selected phrases Grammatically admissive of several senses all consistent with Salvation and would draw their words no closer for fear of strangling tender Consciences Hence is it that in the Question Whether Concupiscence be properly a sin in the Regenerate both parties appeal unto the Article equally perswaded there so finde favour in their several Opinions as indeed like a well drawn Picture it seemeth to Eye them both and yet frown on neither And one may read in the works of King Iames that on this account he highly commendeth the discretion and moderation of the Composers of our Articles Dr. Heylin They had not otherwise attained to the end they aimed at which was ad tollendam opinionum
dissent from him rendring my reason for the same Dr. Heylin But whereas he tels us in the following words that the name of Puritan in that notion began this year viz. 1564. I fear he hath anticipated the time a little Genebrard a right good Chronologer placing it ortos in Anglia Puritanos about two years after Anno 1566 c. Fuller I answer First Let the Animadvertor keep his fears for me to himself and not be solicitous in my behaâ—f Secondly If the time be anticipated but a little these necessary Animadversions needed not to take notice thereof Thirdly Genebrards placing the beginning of the Name Puritan about two years after intimates a latitude in his Computation Fourthly Genebrard Anno 1566. calleth them ortos but not orientes in Anglia Puritanos And when I speak of the beginning of the name I relate to it rising not risen Fifthly Genebrard is so disaffected to our Religion he is not to be credited taking all implicitly out of rayling Saunders Witnesse this eminent Note amongst the rest Anno 1570. UNCTI in Surria Comitatu Angliae è Calvinii Schola oâ—iuntur qui docent peccare neminem nisi qui veritatem ab ipsis praedicatam non recâ—pit The ANOINTED Scholars of Calvin did rise this year in Surry an English County who teach that every man must sin that will not imbrace their Doctrine all which is a notorious untruth Lastly The Animadvertor cannot justly be angry with me if I antedated the Puritans by two years seeing he findeth the Lineaments of the Puritan Platform in the Reign of King Henry the eighth twenty years at least beâ—ore my mention of them Dr. Heylin But why our Author should call the Bishop of Londons House by the name of the Popes Palace I doe very much wonder unlesse it were to hold conformity with the style of Martin Mar-Prelate and the rest of that Faction Amongst whom nothing was more common than to call all Bishops Petty-Popes and more particularly to call the Archbishop of Canterbury the Pope of Lambeth and the Bishop of London Pope oâ— London But I hope more charitably than so being more willing to impute it to the fault of the Printers than the Pen of our Author c. Fuller It falls out happily for me that Grindal was then Bishop oâ— London one so far from Popery that he is beheld under an opposite notion I wonder the Animadvertor will lay so much weight on a plain mistake of the Presse Dr. Heylin Our Author proceeds Fol. 98. Against covetous Conformists it was provided that no spiritual Person Colledge or Hospital shall let Lease other than for twenty one years or three lives c. No mention in the Statute of Covetous Conformists I am sure of that and therefore no provision to be made against them the Covetous Conformist is our Authors own c. Fuller I say in the same place that in this Parliament Laws were enacted against Poiniards with three Edges Conformists they must needs be who enjoyed so great Church-preferment and Covetous I may call them who made so unreasonable Leases But of this I have largely spoken in my Answer to the Introduction Dr. Heylin Our Author proceeds Fol. 121. These Prophecyings were founded on the Apostles Precept For ye may all Prophesie one by one that all may learn and all be comforted but so as to make it out they were fain to make use of humane prudential additions Not grounded but pretended to be grounded on those words of St. Paul c. Fuller Grounded shall be altered God willing into pretended to be grounded and then I hope no shadow of offence Dr. Heylin Our Author proceeds Fol. 135. A loud Parliament is alwaies attended with a silent Convocation as here it came to passe The Activity of the former in Church matters lâ—st the latter nothing to doe A man would think by this that the Parliament of this year being the 23 of the Quâ—en had done great â—eats in matters of Religion as making new Articles of Faith or confirming Canons or something else of like importance c. Fuller It lyeth not in the Power of Parliament to make new ARTICLES of FAITH nor did they ever pretend unto it Nor lyeth it in the Power of the Church to make any new ARTICLES Canons they may make for the Descipline and may declare and publish Articles of faith But God alone in Scripture hath made them to which man under an heavy curse may make no Addition Dr. Heylin Our Author proceeds Fol. 187. That since the High Commission and this Oath it is that ex officio which he meaneth were taken away by the Act of Parliament it is to be hoped that if such swearing were so great a grievance nihil analogum nothing like unto it which may amount to as much shall hereafter be substituted in the room thereof What could be said more plain to testifie his disaffections one way and his zâ—al another The High-Commission and the Oath reproached as Grievances because the greatest â—urbs of the Puritan party and the strongest Bulwarks of the Church a congratulation to the times for abolishing both though as yet I finde no Act of Parliament against the Oath except it be by consequence and illation onely and finally a hope exprest that the Church never shall revert to her former power in substituting any like thing in the place thereof by which the good people of the Land may be stopt in their way to the fifth Monarchy so much sought after And yet this does not speak so plain as the following passage Fuller God restore the Church in his good time to her just rights and give her wisdome moâ—e raâ—ely to use it I am â—oâ— no fift Monarchy or Anarchyâ—heâ— â—heâ— but desire from my heart that no such analogical Oath may be offered to me and let the Animadvertor if desirous thereof have it to himself and much good may it doe him Dr. Heylin Our Author proceeds Fol. 193. Wits will be working and such as have a Satyrical vein cannot better vent it than in lashing of sin This spoken in defence of those scurrilous Libels which Iob Throgmorton Penry Fenner and the rest of the Puritan Rabble published in print against the Bishops Anno 1588. thereby to render them ridiculous both abroad and at home Fuller I am most disingeniously dealt with by the Animadvertor obtruding on me such words In defence I defie it these me words immediatly following But 〈…〉 and devouâ— sort of men even of such as were no great friends to the 〈◊〉 upon solemn debaâ—e then resolved I speak on certain knowledge from the mouthes of such whom I must believe that for many foul falshoods therein suggestâ—d altogether â—â—â—eseeming a pious spirit to print publish or with pleasure peruse which â—â—posed true both in matter and measure rather conceal than discover The best of men being so conscious of their own badnesse that they are more carefull to wash their own faces than
in the following Parliament we are to follow him to that Parliament for our satisfaction And there we find that Mr. Maynard made a Speech in the Committee of Lords against the Canons made by the Bishops in the last Convocation in which he endeavoured to prove c. Fuller Diogenes being demanded what one should give him to strike on the head as hard as he could Give me sayed he but an Helmet Well fare my Helmet the seasonable interposition of the word ENDEAVOURED which hath secured me from the blowes of the Animadvertor and perchance his hand thereby retunded Besides I have a double Helmet Master now Serjeant Mainard no lesse eminently known for his skill in Law than for his love to the Clergy by pleading so effectually in his success as well as desire for their Tithes Wherefore being weary with this long contest I resolve for a while even to take my naturall rest and will quietly sleep untill Iogged by that which particularly concerneth me Dr. Heylyn Endeavoured to prove that the Clergy had no power to make Canons without common consent in Parliament because in the Saxon's times Lawes and Constitutions Ecclesiasticall had the confirmation of Peers and sometimes of the People to which great Councills our Parliaments do succeed Which Argument if it be of force to prove that the Clergy can make no Canons without consent of the Peers and People in Parliament it must prove also that the Peers and People can make no Statutes without consent of the Clergy in their Convocation My reason is Because such Councels in the times of the Saxons were mixt Assemblies consisting as well of Laicks as of Ecclesiasticks and the matters there concluded on of a mixt nature also Laws being passed as commonly in them in order to the good governance of the Common-wealth as Canons for the regulating such things as concern'd Religion But these great Councels of the Saxons being divided into two parts in the times ensuing the Clergy did their work by themselves without any confirmation from the King or Parliament till the submission of the Clergy to King Henry the Eighth And if the Parliaments did succeed in the place of those great Councells as he saies they did it was because that antiently the Procurators of the Clergy not the Bishops onely had their place in Parliament though neither Peers nor People voted in the Convocations Which being so it is not much to be admired that there was some checking as is said in the second Argument about the disuse of the generall making of such Church-Laws But checking or repining at the proceeding of any Superiour Court makes not the Acts thereof illegall for if it did the Acts of Parliaments themselves would be reputed of no force or illegally made because the Clergy for a long time have checkt and think they have good cause to check for their being excluded Which checking of the Commons appears not onely in those antient Authors which the Gentleman cited but in the Remonstrance tendred by them to King Henry the Eighth exemplified at large in these Animadversions lib. 3. n. 61. But because this being a Record of the Convocation may not come within the walk of a Common Lawyer I shall put him in mind of that memorable passage in the Parliament 51 Edw. 3d. which in brief was this The Commons finding themselves aggrieved as well with certain Constitutions made by the Clergy in their Synods as with some Laws or Ordinances which were lately passed more to the advantage of the Clergy then the Common People put in a Bill to this effect viz. That no Act nor Ordinance should from thenceforth be made or granted on the Petition of the said Clergy without the consent of the Commons and that the said Commons should not be bound in times to come by any Constitutions made by the Clergy of this Realm for their own advantage to which the Commons of this Realm had not given consent The reason of which is this and 't is worth the marking Car eux ne veulent estre obligez a nul de vos Estatuz ne Ordinances faitz sanz leur Assent Because the said Clergy did not think themselves bound as indeed they were not in those times by any Statute Act or Ordinance made without their assent in the Court of Parliament But that which could not be obtain'd by this checking of the Commons in the declining and last times of King Edward 3. was in some part effected by the more vigorous prosecution of King Henry 8. who to satisfie the desires of the Commons in this particular and repress their checkings obtained from the Clergy that they should neither make nor execute any Canons without his consent as before is said so that the Kings power of confirming Canons was grounded on the free and voluntary submission of the Clergy and was not built as the third Argument objecteth on so weak a foundation as the Pope's making Canons by his sole power the Pope not making Canons here nor putting his Prescripts and Letters decretory in the place of Canons but onely as a remedy for some present exigency So that the King's power in this particular not being built upon the Popes as he said it was it may well stand That Kings may make Canons without consent of Parliament though he saith they cannot But whereas it is argued in the fourth place that the clause in the Statute of Submission in which it is said that the Clergy shall not make Canons without the Kings leave doth not imply that by His leave alone they may make them I cannot think that he delivered this for Law and much less for Logick For had this been looked on formerly as a piece of Law the Parliaments would have check'd at it at some time or other and been as sensible of the Kings enchroachments in executing this power without them as antiently some of them had been about the disuse of the like generall consent in the making of them Fuller DORMIT SECURUS Dr. Heylyn Fol. 180. In the next place our Author tells us that Mr. Maynard endeavoured also to prove that these Canons were against the King's Prerogative the Rights Liberties and Properties of the Subject And he saith well that it was endeavoured to be proved and endeavoured onely nothing amounting to a proof being to be found in that which followes It had before been Voted by the House of Commons that the Canons are against fundamentall Laws of this Realm against the Kings Prerogative Property of the Subject the Right of Parliament and do tend to faction and sedition And it was fit that some endeavours should be used to make good the Vote But this being but a generall charge requires a generall answer onely and it shall be this Before the Canons were subscribed they were imparted to the King by the Arch-bishop of Canterbury and by the King communicated to the Lords of the Councill who calling to them the assistance of the Judges and
by an Arch-bishop attended with prayers and a Sermon 2. I never expected that a Chaplain to K. Charles should find fault with any thing tending to the honour of his Lord How can any good Disciple grudge at what is expended 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 on the buriall of the Memory of his Master being the last in this kind 3. My Collections I mean printed by me but observed by my most worthy Friend are abating onely the uncertain place of the Lord Maior most critically exact Lastly though the Heralds Office doth carefully preserve all such Ceremonyes yet cannot all persons living at great distance and desiring information herein have on all occasions so facill and convenient access to their Office as to my Printed Book Dr. Heylyn The like may be said also of the quick and active Raigns of Edward the the sixth and Queen Mary in which the wâ—ole Body of the reformed Religion was digested setled and destroyed sufficient of it self to make a competent Volume but contracted by our Author like Homer's Iliads in the Nut-shell into less than 25. sheets And yet in that small Abstract we find many Impertinences as to the work he hath in hand that is to say the great proficiency of King Edward in his Grammar Learning exemplified in three pieces of Latine of his making when he was but eight or nine yerrs old Fuller Just reason of such contraction because of Mr. Fox his dilatation on the same Where he found my fault he if so pleased might have found my defence viz. If Papists preserve the Nailes and Hairs of their supposed Saints give me leave to Record the first Essays of this Pious Prince especially they being unprinted rarieties with which no Divine or Schollar save the Animadvertor alone would or could have found any fault Dr. Heylyn The long Narrative of Sir Edward Montague Chief Justice of the Common Pleas to vindicate himself from being a voluntary Agent in the business of the Lady Iane Gray needlesly inserted Fuller King Edward the sixth his passing the Crown over the heads of his two Sisters to his Cousin the Lady Iane is a piece of Church-History because the continuing of the Protestant Religion is all the plausible Plea for the same and the fair varnish of so foul a Ground-work This passage of Consequence is defectively delivered by our Historians some Circumstances thereof being hitherto lockt from the world Some have endevoured to force the lock by their bold Conjectures I am the first that have brought the true key and opened it from Judge Montague's own hand truely Passive though charged to be most Active therein driven with the Tempest of Duke Dudley's anger against the Tide of his own Inclinations I prize a Dram of acceptance from the Ingenuous Reader above a Pound of the Animadvertor's Cavilling which is offended with my inserting of so authentique and informative a Manuscript Dr. Heylyn Needless the full and punctual relation of Wyats Rebellion and the Issue of it though acted upon some false grounds of Civil Interess without relating to Religion or to Church Affairs Infinitum esset ire per singula c. Fuller This Rebellion was grounded on Erronious Principles of Religion and therefore Goodman Il-man did in his Book of that Subject entitle it GODS-CAUSE and though souly mistaken therein it is enough to reduce this Design to Church-concernment Had I omitted it the Animadvertor would have charged me with Puritanical pardon the Prolepsis compliance so hard it is to please him either full or fasting Dr. Heylyn But well it were if onely Aberrations from Historicall truth were to be met with in our Author In whom we find such a continual vein of Puritanism such dangerous grounds for Inconformity and Sedition to be raised upon as easily may pervert the unwary Reader whom the facetiousness of the style like a Hook baited with a painted Fly may be apt to work on Murthering of Kings avowed for a necessary prudence as oft as they shall fall into the power of their Subjects Lib. 4. fol. 109. Fuller The Page cited by him happily happeneth to be the Initial One of a Section and hath no more therein then as followeth Church-History Book 4. Page 109. Soon after his Death K. Edward was much lamented by those of whom in his liâ—e time he was never beloved Whether this proceeded from the meer mutaâ—ility â—f mens minds weary to loiter long in the lazie posture of the same affection Or whether it proceeded from the Pride of Mortimer whose insolence grew intolerable Or whether because his punishment was generally apprehended too heavy for his fault so that Deposition without Death or at the worst Death without such unhumane cruelty had been sufficient One of our English-Poet-Historians accquainteth us with a passage which to my knowledge appeareth not in any other Author This all in that page Reader I request thee do Me thy Self and Truth right Whether can my avowance of King-murdering be collected from any thing here written by me But because some will say the Quotation possibly may be mistaken If any thing sounding to that sense there or elsewhere be found in my Book may the Ravens of the Valleys whom I behold as loyall Subjects in Vindication of the Eagle their Soveraign pick out my eyes for delivering such rebellious Doctrine Dr. Heylyn The Coronation of Kings and consequently their succession to the Crown of England made to depend upon the suffrage and consent of the People Lib. 11. fol. 122. The Sword extorted from the Supream Magistrate and put into the hands of the common People whensoever the Reforming humor shall grow strong amongst them Lib. 9. fol. 51. The Church depriv'd of her Authority in determining controversies of the Faith and a dispute rais'd against that clause of the Article in which that Authority is declared whether forg'd or not Lib. 9. fol. 73. Fuller Stylus Equabilis Here is a continued Champian large Levell and fair Flat of fourteen untruths at least without any Elevation of Truth interposed No such matter in that place as hereafter shall appear False as the former as in due time and place cited now afterwards by him eagerly improved will appear I am depraved unjustly who never deprived ' the Church of her Authority I raised no such Dispute but would have quel'd it if in my power All which I refer to my Answer to these respective Quotations Dr. Heylyn Her power in making Canons every where prostituted to the lust of the Parliament contrary both to Law and constant practise Fuller Every where is No where And seeing no particular place is instanced to a General Charge a General Deniall shall suffice Let me add that whereas the Animadvertor hereafter taxeth me for calling the two Houses the Parliament we therefore may presume that he not running on the same rock by Parliament meaneth the King Lords and Commons which granted how much of loyalty and Discretion there is in these his words prostituted to the LUST
ordinary name for a field in our Language and so the old Saxons which were not ignorant of our language might well make use of their owne word field and ioyne it with the Brittish lleith which in processe and corruption of time came to be Litchfield You must note that when the Saxons met with our ll they wrote and pronounced it alwayes as one single l. Dr. Heylyn Our Author proceeds Fol. 20. I fear that learned pen hath gone too far who makes him founder of a Bishoprick at York and styleth him an Emperour surpassing in all virtue and Christian piety The learned pen here spoken of is that of judicious Camden whose character of Constantius Chlorus our Author in this place will not let passe without some censure That he did found or rather re-found a Bishoprick in the City of â—ork I am confident Cambden had not said without very good grounds though on what grounds he said it I am yet to seek A Bishoprick and a Bishop of York we find on good Record within few years after Eborius the Bishop of that City subscribing to the Councill of Arles in the time of Constantine the Son and next successor of Constantius Chlorus And that he was a Prince of surpassing virtue is generally agreed upon by all Historians both Pagans and Christians The Question then will be onely this Whether he did surpass also in Christian piety which our Author will not otherwise grant but by our Saviours Argument onely concluding those to be on our part who are not against us Constantius doing no other good unto Christianity but that he did not do it harm A censure not agreeable to so good an Emperour who though he were no through-paced Christian yet did he both favour their Religion and protect their persons as Eusebius testifies de vita Constantini lib. 1. cap. 12. And not so onely but as our Author himselfe confesseth he both permitted and preserved them who would rebuild the decayed Christian Churches If to preserve the persons of Christians in the exercise of their Religion to have them near unto him in places of greatest trust and eminence to suffer them to rebuild their Churches and defend them in it be not the doing of some good unto Christianity more then the doing it no harm let our Author carry it and Cambden bear the blame of his needlesse Courtship Fuller If at the end of this long Note the Animadvertor at Last had demonstrated that Constantius Chlorus was a thorow-paced Christian the Reader and I my selfe would not have grudged our attention unto it But what is the Total sum of what he saith It amounts to just nothing only to show that which I confessed he did some good besides no hurt to Christianity What is this to prove the words of Learned but here mistaken Mr. Camden An Emperour surpassing in all Virtues and Christian Piety The Animadvertor should first have proved that this Constantius had passed into Christianity before he was surpassing therein a thing which He and all his Friends are never able to evidence by any authentick Author In a word As Chlorus or YELLOW so his Name in Greek is a Middle colour betwixt White and Black below the former and above the latter in Brightnesse So this Emperour well answering his name was indeed much better than most Pagans and yet far short so far as by any humane Author can be collected of a true Christian. Dr. Heylyn But this is not the first time in which our Author hath clasht with Camden and I see it will not be the last by that which followeth For speaking on the by how Wolves first entred into England considering that Merchants would not bring them and that they could not swim over themselves he adds these words viz. Fol. 25. Which hath prevailed so far with some as to conceive this now an Iland originally annext to the Continent It seems that though some so conceive it yet our Author doth not And yet he cannot chuse but know that those whom he doth pass so slightly over by the name of some as if not worthy to be notified by their proper names are the most eminent and renowned Antiquaries of these latter times Amongst which if I reckon Camden for one and a chief one too I should but do him right and not wrong the rest Whose arguments to prove the point he that lists to see may find them at large laid down in his description of Kent which when our Author can confute as I doubt he cannot he may then slight it over as a thing conceived and conceived only by some men not worth the naming Till then I shall behold it as a matter not conceived but prov'd and so must he Fuller It seems multa videntur quae noâ— sunt I am ashamed to return an answer to this needlesse and impertinent Note S. Hierom honoured not Cicero more then I reverence Mr. Camden Dr. Heylyn I should here end this Chapter and this Book together but that I find a trifling errour not worth our notice but that I would set all things right as they come before me which is the placing of the Emperor Constantine in the Catalogue of those who commonly pass under the name of the 9 Worthies and this saith he Fuller Not so He should have ended this Chapter and Book before and not have inserted his last impertinent note Num Aquila capit muscas Dr. Heylyn Fol. 39. Is more then comes to the proportion of Britain that amongst but nine in the whole World two should prove Natives of this Iland Constantine and Arthur That Arthur goes for one of the Worthies I shall easily grant and I shall grant too that in the opinion of some writers this Island gave birth unto another of them namely Guy of Warwick His Knight Sir Guy one of the nine we touch but by the way saith Warner in his Albions England Fuller Perchance Guy of Warwick may be made one of the nine English worthies But I believe none ever made him one of the NINE GENERALL WORTHYES little known beyond the Seas no General not to say Prince as the rest of his Form-fellowes and fam'd onely for his personal performances Dr. Heylyn But in the common estimate they are reckoned thus that is to say three Iewes 1. Ioshua 2. David 3. Iudas Maccabeus three Gentiles 4. Hector of Troy 5. Alexander the great and 6. Iulius Caesar three Christians 7. Arthur of Brittain 8. Charlemain of France and 9. Godfry of Bovillon But I condemn my selfe for mingling this poor piece of Errantry with such serious matters though the necessity of following my Leader as he goeth may excuse me in it Fuller The words of the Animadvertor in common estimate intimate that they are not constantly so accounted The seven wise men of Greece are variously reckoned up as severall Authors fancied them So also are the nine Worthyes and if worth makes a worthy Constantine deserved a place amongst them being in time before
was made Knight of the Bath at the Coronation of King Iames Anno 1603. and afterwards created Lord Montague of Boughton in the nineteenth year of that King Anno 1621. which honourable Title is now enjoyed by his Son another Edward Anno 1658. And thirdly though I grant that Dr. Iames Montague Bishop of Winchester the second Brother of the four was of great power and favour in the time of King Iames. Thus far Dr. Heylin out of his Advertisements written in correction of Mr. Sandersons History of the Reign of King Iames. To rectifie this heap of Errors not to be paralleled in any Author pretending to the emendation of another I have here plainly set down the Male-pedegree of this Noble Numerous and successfull Family 1 Sir Edward Montague Lord Chief Justice in the Reign of King Henry the eighth 2 Sir Edward Montague a worthy Patriot in the Reign of Queen Elizabeth Sir Walter Montague Knight second Son died without Issue Sir Henry Montague third Son Earl of Manchester Lord Chief Justice Lord Treasurer c. Edw. Montague now Earl of Manchester besides other Sons 3 Sir Edward Montague made Knight of the Bath at the Coronation of King Iames never a Martialist and created by Him Baron Montague of Boughton dying in the beginning of the Civill Warres William Mountague Esq of the Middle-Temple second Son 4 Edward now Lord Montague of Boughton Ralfe Montague Esq second Son Edward Montague Esq eldest Son Christopher Montague third Son died before his Father being a most hopefull Gentleman Sir Charles Montague fourth Son who did good service in Ireland and left three Daughters and Co-heirs Iames Montague fifth Son Bishop of Winchester died unmarried Sir Sidney Montague sixth Son Master of the Requests Edward Montague now Admirall and one of the Lords of the Councel I presume the Animadvertor will allow me exact in this Family which hath reflected so fauourably upon me that I desire and indeed deserve to live no longer than whilest I acknowledg the same THE FOURTH BOOK From the first preaching of Wickliffe to the beginning of the Reign of King Henry the eighth Dr. Heylin OUR Author begins this Book with the Story of Wickliffe and continueth it in relating the successes of him and his followers to which he seems so much addicted as to Christen their Opinions by the name of the Gospel For speaking of such incouragements and helps as were given to Wickliffe by the Duke of Lancaster with other advantages which the conditions of those times did afford unto him he addeth That Fol. 129. We must attribute the main to Divine Providence blessing the Gospel A name too high to be bestowed upon the Fancies of a private man many of whose Opinions were so far from truth so contrary to peace and civil Order so inconsistent with the Government of the Church of Christ as make them utterly unworthy to be look'd on as a part of the Gospel Or if the Doctrines of Wickliffe must be call'd the Gospel what shall become of the Religion then establisht in the Realm of England and in most other parts of the Western World Were all but Wickliffes Followers relaps'd to Heathenism were they turn'd Jews or had imbrac'd the Law of Mahomet If none of these and that they still continued in the faith of Christ delivered to them in the Gospels of the four Evangelists and other Apostolicall Writers Wickliffes new Doctrines could not challenge the name of Gospel noâ— ought it to be given to him by the Pen of any But such is the humor of some men as to call every separation from the Church of Rome by the name of Gospel the greater the separation is the more pure the Gospel No name but that of Evangelici would content the Germans when they first separated from that Church and reformed their own And Harry Nichols when he separated from the German Churches and became the Father of Familists bestows the name of Evangelium Regni on his Dreams and Dotages Gospels of this kinde we have had and may have too many quot Capita tâ—t Fides as many Gospels in a manner as Sects and Sectaries if this world goe on Now as Wickliffes Doctrines are advanc'd to the name of Gospel so his Followers whatsoever they were must be called Gods servants the Bishops being said fol. 151. to be busie in persecuting Gods servants and for what crime soever they were brought to punishment it must be thought they suffered onely for the Gospel and the service of God A pregnant evidence whereof we have in the story of Sir Iohn Oldcastle accused in the time of King Harry the fifth for a design to kill the King and his Brethren actually in Arms against that King in the head of 20000 men attainted for the same in open Parliament and condemn'd to die and executed in St. Giles his Fields accordingly as both Sir Roger Acton his principal Counsellor and 37 of his Accomplices had been before For this we have not onely the Authority of our common Chronicles Walsingham Stow and many others but the Records of the Tower and Acts of Parliament as is confessed by our Author fol. 168. Yet coming out of Wickliffes Schools and the chief Scholar questionlesse which was train'd up in them he must be Registred for a Martyr in Fox his Calendar And though our Author dares not quit him as he sayes himself yet such is his tendernesse and respect to Wickliffes Gospel that he is loath to load his Memory with causlesse Crimes fol. 167. taxeth the Clergie of that time for their hatred to him discrediteth the relation of T. Walsingham and all later Authors who are affirm'd to follow him as the Flock their Belweather and finally leaves it as a special verdict to the last day of the Revelation of the righteous Iudgements of God Fuller First I fain would know whether the Animadvertor would be contented with the Condition of the Church of England as Wickliffe found it for Opinions and Practise and doth not earnestly desire a Reformation thereof I am charitably confident that He doth desire such an Emendation and therefore being both of us agreed in this Point of the convenience yea necessity thereof in the second place I would as fain be satisfied from the Animadvertor whether He conceived it possible that such Reformation could be advanced without Miracle all on a sodain so that many grosse Errors would not continue and some new one be superadded The man in the Gospel first saw men walking as trees before he saw perfectly Nature hath appointed the Twilight as a Bridge to passe us out of Night into Day Such false and wild opinions like the Scales which fell down from the Eyes of St. Paul when perfectly restored to his sight have either vanished or been banished out of all Protestant Confession Far be it from me to account the rest of England relapsed into Atheism or lapsed in Iudaism Turcism c. whom I behold as Erronious Christians
certainly before the Statute of Praemunire for that the whole Clergy in their Convocation should publiquely declare and avow a notorious falshood especially in a matter of fact is not a thing to be imagined I must confesse my self to be at a losse in this intricate Labyrinth unless perhaps there were some critical difference in those elder times between a Synod and a Convocation the first being call'd by the Arch-bishops in their several and respective Provinces as the necessities of the Church the other only by the King as his occasion and affairs did require the same But whether this were so or not is not much material as the case now stands the Clergie not assembling since the 25 of King Henry the eighth but as they are convocated and convened by the Kings Writ only I only add that the time and year of this submission is mistook by our Author who placeth it in 1533. whereas indeed the Clergy made this acknowledgement and submission in their Convocation Anno 1532. though it pass'd not into an Act or Statute till the year next following Well then suppose the Clergy call'd by the Kings Authority and all their Acts and Constitutions ratified by the Royals assent are they of force to binde the Subject to submit and conform unto them Not if our Author may be judge for he tels us plainly Fol. 191. That even such Convocations with the Royal assent subject not any for recusancie to obey their Canons to a civil penalty in person or property until confirmed by Act of Parliament I marvel where our Author took up this opinion which he neither findes in the Registers of Convocation or Records of Parliament Himself hath told us fol. 190. that such Canons and Constitutions as were concluded on in Synods or Convocations before the passing of the Statute of Praemunire were without any further Ratification obligatory to all subjected to their jurisdiction And he hath told us also of such Convocations as had been called between the passing of the Statute of Praemunire and the Act for Submission that they made Canons which were binding although none other than Synodical Authority did confirm the same Upon which premisses I shall not fear to raise this Syllogism viz. That power which the Clergy had in their Convocations before their submission to the King to binde the Subject by their Canons and Constitutions without any further ratification than own Synodical Authority the same they had when the Kings power signified in his Royal assent was added to them but the Clergy by our Authors own confession had power in their Convocations before their submission to the King to bind the Subject by their Canons and Constitutions without any further ratification than their own Synodical Authority Ergo they had the same power to bind the Subjects when the Kings power signified by the Royal assent was added to them The Minor being granted by our Author as before is shewed the Major is onely to be proved And for the proof hereof I am to put the Reader in minde of a Petition or Remonstrance exhibited to the King by the House of Commons Anno 1532. in which they shewed themselves agrieved that the Clergy of this Realm should act Authoriâ—atively and Supremely in the Convocations and they in Parliament do nothing but as it was confirmed and ratified by Royal assent By which it seems that there was nothing then desired by the House of Commons but that the Convocation should be brought down to the same level with the Houses of Parliament and that their Acts and Constitutions should not binde the Subject as before in their Goods and Possessions until they were confirmed and ratified by the Regal Power The Answer unto which Remonstrance being drawn up by Dr. Gardiner then newly made Bishop of Winchester and allowed of by both Houses of Convocation was by them presented to the King But the King not satisfied with this Answer resolves to bring them to his bent lest else perhaps they might have acted something to the hindrance of his divorce which was at that time in agitation and therefore on the tenth of May he sends a Paper to them by Dr. Fox after Bishop of Hereford in which it was peremptorily required That no Constitution or Ordinance shall be hereafter by the Clergy Enacted Promulged or put in Execution unlesse the Kings Highnesse do approve the same by his high Authority and Royal assent and his advice and favour be also interponed for the execution of every such Constitution among his Highnesse Subjects And though the Clergy on the receipt of this paper remov'd first to the Chappel of St. Katherines and after unto that of St. Dunstan to consult about it yet found they no Saint able to inspire them with a resolution contrary to the Kings desires and therefore upon the Wednesday following being the fifteenth of the same Moneth they made their absolute submission binding themselves in Verbo Sacerdotii not to make or execute any Canons or other Synodical Constitutions but as they were from time to time enabled by the Kings Authority But this submission being made unto the King in his single person and not as in conjunction with his Houses of Parliament could neither bring the Convocation under the command of Parliaments nor render them obnoxiâ—us to the power thereof as indeed it did not But to the contrary hereof it is said by our Author that Fol. 194. He viz. the King by the advice and consent of his Clergy in Convocation and great Councel in Parliament resolved to reform the Church under his inspection from grosse abuses crept into it To this I need no other Answer than our Author himself who though in this place he makes the Parliament to be joyned in Commission with Convocation as if a joynt Agent in that great businesse of Reforming the Church yet in another place he tels us another tale For fol. 188. It will appear saith he and I can tell from whom he saith it upon serious examination that there was nothing done in the Reformation of Religion save what was acted by the Clergy in their Convocations or grounded on some Act of theirs precedent to it with the Advice Counsel and Consent of the Bishops and most eminent Church-men confirmed upon the Postfact and not otherwise by the Civil Sanction according to the usage of the best and happiest times of Christianity So then the Reformation of the Church was acted chiefly by the King with the advice of the Clergy in their Convocation the confirmation on the post-fact by the King in Parliament and that by his leave not in all the Acts and Particulars of it but in some few onely for which consult the Tract entituled The Way and Manner of the Reformation of the Church of England Now as our Author makes the Parliament a joynt Assistant with the King in the Reformation so he conferreth on Parliaments the Supreme Power of ratifying and confirming all Synodical Acts. Fol. 199. The
Reformation in the Reign of King Edward more perfect than what was afterwards Let us make us a Captain and return unto Egypt I have too much advantage in my own hand and a principle in my bosome will not give me leave to make use thereof to the utmost Dr. Heylin Our Author proceeds Fol. 404. At last the great Earl of Warwick deserted his Chaplain in open field to shift for himself Indeed he had higher things in his head than to attend such trifles A man may easily discern a Cat by her Claw and we may finde as easily by be scratches of our Authors Pen to what party in the Church he stands most inclined He had before declared for the Dominicans and Rigid Calvinists in some points of Doctrine and now declares himself for the Non-Conformists in point of Ceremonie He had not else called the Episcopal Ornaments particularly the Rochet Chimere and Square-cap by the name of trifles such trifles as were not worth the contending for if Resolute Ridley had been pleased to dispense therein c. Fuller I say not that they were trifles but that Iohn Dudley Earl of Warwick afterwards Duke of Northumberland counted them so in respect to his high designes to the Crown yea it is more than suspicious that his ambition esteemed greater matters than Ceremonies meer trifles even Religion it self which he so often changed If the Cat hath put in her claw let her put in her whole foot I conceive such vestments comparatively trifles as to things necessary to salvation And thus I prove it I dare wager with the Animadvertor That take the Clergy of England as constituted 1640 that three parts of four did not know what a CHIMERE was Nor is this any diminution to their Learning and Religion seeing they were not bound to take cognisance thereof And therefore I beleeve one may safely call it a trifle without the knowledge of which word and what was meant thereby so many flocks of pious and learned Shepheards have gone to Heaven As for the Animadvertors additory Note which followeth concerning the singing of Psalmes in Churches I am not concerned therein Nor will I here insert his Instances of some fortunate Subjects who married Queens seeing I say not alwaies but often such matches prove unprosperous Dr. Heylin Our Author proceeds Fol. 421. This barren Convocation is intituled the Parent of those Articles of Religion fourty two in number which are printed with this Preface Articuli de quibus in Synodo Londinensi c. Our Author here is guilty of a greater crime than that of Scandalum Magnatum making King Edward the sixth of pious memory no better than an impious and leud Impostor For if the Convocation of this year were barren as he saith it was it could neither be the Parent of those Articles nor of the short Catechism which was printed with them countenanced by the Kings Letters Patents prefixt before it c. Fuller Here is an high charge indeed I believeâ—hat â—hat I am generally believed to have as high a reverence for the Memory of King Edward as the Animadvertor himself The Journals of the Convocation in this Kings Reign I have carefully perused which aâ—e no better than blanck paper containing onely the names of the Members therein daily meeting without any matter of moment yea any matteâ— at all Registred to be performed by them But I wholy refer my self to what I have written in my Church-History of this hard Subject making it there as plain as I could which the Animadvertor hath a mind again to involve and perplex THE EIGHTH BOOK The Reign of Queen Mary Dr. Heylin WE next proceed unto the short but troublesome Reign of Queen Mary in which the first thing that occurs is Fol. 1. But the Commons of England who for many years together had conn'd Loyalty by-heart out of the Statute of the succession were so perfect in their Lesson that they would not be put out of it by this new started design In which I am to note these things first that he makes the Loyaly of the Commons of England not to depend upon the primogeniture of their Princes but on the Statute of Succession and then the object of that Loyalty must not be the King but the Act of Parliament by which they were directed to the knowledge of the next successor and then it must needs be in the power of Parliaments to dispose of the Kingdome as they pleas'd the Peoples Loyalty being tyed to such dispositions c. Fuller I make not the loyalty of the Commons to depend on but to be directed by the Statute of Succession In such Intricacies it was good to have such a Guide to lead mens Judgements in the right And though some male-contents started from their Loyalty the Generality of the Commons of England kept constant unto it Dr. Heylin Our Author proceeds Fol. 11. Afterwards Philpot was troubled by Gardiner for his words spoken in the Convocation In vain did he plead the priviledge of the place commonly reputed a part of Parliament I cannot finde that the Convocation at this time nor many yeares before this time was commonly reputed as a part of the Parliament c. Fuller I onely say that Mr. Philpot pleaded it and that in vaine that it was so reputed as may plainly appear in Mr. Fox so that my words are liable to no just exception Dr. Heylin Our Author proceeds Fol. 27. The Letany Surplice and other Ceremonies in Service and Sacraments they omitted both as superfluous and superstitious Our Author speaks this of the Schismaticall Congregation at Franckford who turn'd the Publique Church Liturgy quite out of their Church fashioning to themselves a new forme of Worship which had no warrant and foundation by the Lawes of this Realm And first saith he the Letany Surplice and other Ceremonies they omitted both as superfluous and supersticious Superfluous and supersticious in whose opinion In that of the Schismaticks at Franckford our Authors or in both alike Most probable in our Authors as well as theirs for otherwise he would have added some note of qualifications c. Fuller This note might well have been spared I appeal to such as knew my conformity in the Colledge Chappel Country Parishes and Cathedrall of Sarum to be my Cumpurgators in this unjust accusation Dr. Heylin Thirdly having laid down an abstract of the form of worship contriv'd by the Schismaticks at Franckford he honoureth them with no lower Title than that of Saints and counts this liberty of deviating from the Rules of the Church for a part of their happinesse For so it followeth fol. 28. This faith he is the Communion of Saints who never account themselves peaceably possest of any happinesse untill if it be in their power they have also made their fellow-sufferers partakers thereof If those be Saints who seperate themselves schismatically from their Mother Church and if it be a happinesse to them to be permitted so to doe our
lawfull and undoubted Soveraign Liege Lady and Queen Add unto these the Testimony of Sir Edward Cook though a private person who in his Book of the Jurisdiction of Courts published by order of the long Parliament chap. 1. doth exprâ—sly say That the Parliament consists of the Head and Body that the Head is the King that the Body are the three Estates viz. the Lords Spirituall and Temporall and Commons In which words we have not onely the opinion and testimony of that learned Lawyer but the Authority of the long Parliament also though against it selfe Those aged Bishops had been but little studied in their owne concernments and betray'd their Rights if any of them did acknowledge any such mistake in challenging to themselves the name and priviledges of the third Estate Fuller In this long discourse the Animadvertor hath given in the severall Particulars whereof I in my Church-History gave the Totall summe when saying that there were passages in the old Statutes which did countenance the Bishops sitting in Parliament in the Capacity of a THIRD ESTATE I have nothing to returne in Opposition and heartily wish that his Arguments to use the Sea-man's phrase may prove stanche and tight to hold water when some Common-Lawyer shall examine them But seeing the Animadvertor hath with his commendable paines goâ— so farre in this point I could wish he had gon a little further even to answer the two Common Objections against the THIRD-ESTATE SHIP of Bishops The First is this The Bishop not to speak of Bishops Suffragan of the Isle of Man is a Bishop for all purposes and intents of Jurisdiction and ordination yet hath he no place in Parliament because not holding per In egram Baroniam by an Intire Barony Now if Bishops sat in Parliament as a THIRD-ESTATE and not as so many Barons why hath not the Bishop of Man being in the Province of York a place in Parliament as well as the rest Secondly If the Bishops sit as a THIRD-ESTATE then Statutes made without them are manâ— and defective which in law will not be allowed seeing there were some Sessions of Parliament wherein Statutes did passe Excluso Clero at least wise Absente Clero which notwithstanding are acknowledged Obligatory to our Nation I also request him when his Hand is in to satisfie the Objection taken from a passage in the Parliament at Northampton under Henry the Second when the Bishops challenged their Peerage viz. Non sedemus hîc Episcopi sed Barones Nos Barones vos Barones Pares hîc sumus We sit not here as Bishops but as Barons We are Barons You are Barons here we are peers which is much inforced by Anti-Episcopists And whereas the Animadvertor translated it not as Bishops onely it is more then questionable that this interpolation ONLY will not be admitted by such who have a mind curiously to examine the matter I protest my integrity herein that I have not started these Objections of my selfe having had them urged against me and though I can give a bungling Answer unto them I desire that the Animadvertor being better skill'd in Law would be pleased if it ever comes again in his way to returne an Answer as short and clear as the Objections are and I and many more will be bound to returne him thanks Dr. Heylyn Our Author proceeds Fol. 196. The Conâ—ocation now not sitting and matters of Religion being brought under the cognizance of the Parliament their Wisdoms adjudged it not onely convenient but necessary that some prime Clergy men might be consulted with It seems then that the setting up of the new Assembly consisting of certain Lords and Gentlemen and two or more Divines out of every County must be ascrib'd to the not sitting of the Convocation Whereas if that had been the reason the Convocation should have been first warned to re-assemble with liberty and safe conducts given them c. Fuller The Animadvertor now enters the list with the WISDOMS in Parliament who are most able to justifie their owne Act. Mean time my folly may stand by in silence unconcerned to return any Answer Dr. Heylyn Fol. 198. It savours something oâ— a Prelaticall Spirit to be offended about Precedency I see our Author is no Changeling Primus ad extremum similis sibi the very same at last as he was at the first Certainly if it savour of a Prelaticall Spirit to contend about Precedencies that Spirit by some â—ythagorean Metempsychosis hath passed into the bodies of the Presbyterians whose pride had swell'd them in conceit above Kings and Princes and thus cometh home to our Author c. Fuller If it cometh home unto me I will endeavour God-willing to thrust it far from me by avoiding the odious sin of Pride And I hope the Presbyterians will herein make a reall and practicall refutation of this note in Evidencing more Humility hereafter seasonably remembring they are grafted on the Stock of the Bishops and are concerned not to be high-minded but feare lest if God spared not Episcopacy for what sins I am not to enquire peaceably possessed above a Thousand years of Power in the Church of England take heed that he spare not Presbytery also which is but a Probationer on its good behaviour especially if by their insolence they offend God and disoblige our Nation the generality whereof is not over-fond of their Goâ—ernment Dr. Heylyn Our Author proceeds Fol. 203. We listen not to their fancy who have reckoned the words in the Covenant six hundred sixty six c. I must confesse my selfe not to be so much a Pythagorean as to find Divinity in Numbers nor am taken with such Mysteries as some fancy in them And yet I cannot chuse but say that the Number of Six hundred sixty six words neither more nor less which are found in the Covenant though they conclude nothing yet they signifie something Our Author cannot chuse but know what pains were taken even in the times of Irenaeus to find out Antichrist by this number Some thinking then that they had found it in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with reference to the persecuting Roman Emperours Some Protestants think that they had found it in a Dedication to Pope Paul the fifth which was Paulo V to Vice-Deo the numerall letters whereof that is to say D.C.L.V.V.V.I. amount exactly unto six hundred sixty six which is the Number of the Beast in Revelation The Papists on the other side find it in the name of Luther but in what language or how speld I remember not And therefore whosoever he was which made this Observation upon the Covenant he deserves more to be commended for his wit then condemned for his idlenesse Fuller The Animadvertor might herein have allowed me the Liberty of Preterition a familiar figure in all Authors managed by them with Taceo praetermitto transeo we passe by listen not c. when relating things Either Parva of small moment Nota generally known Ingrata unwelcome to many Readers Under which of
one of my Name printed before I was born and false never by Man or woman retorted on me However if it doth Quit mine He is now but Even with me and hereafter I shall be ABOVE him by forbearing any bitter Return I had rather my Name should make many causelessely merry then any justly sad and seeing it lyeth equally open and obvious to praise and dispraise I shall as little be elated when flattered Fuller of wit and learning as dejected when flouted Fuller of folly and ignorance All this which the Animadvertor hath said on my Name I behold as nothing and as the Anagram of his Name HEYLYN NE HILI NOTHING-worth Dr. Heylyn But my other story is more serious intended for the satisfaction of our Author and the Reader both It was in November Anno 1639. that I receiv'd a message from the Lord Archbishop to attend him the next day at two of the clock in the afternoon The Key being turn'd which opened the way into his Study I found him sitting in a chair holding a paper in both hands and his eyes so fixt upon that paper that he observ'd me not at my coming in Finding him in that posture I thought it fit and manners to retire again But the noise I made by my retreat bringing him back unto himselfe he recall'd me again and told me after some short pawse that he well remembred that he had sent for me but could not tell for his life what it was about After which he was pleas'd to say not without tears standing in his eyes that he had then newly receiv'd a letter acquainting him with a Revolt of a Person of some Quality in North-Wales to the Church of Rome that he knew that the increase of Popery by such frequent Revolts would be imputed unto him and his Brethren the Bishops who were all least guilty of the same that for his part he had done his utmost so far forth as it might consist with the Rules of Prudence and the Preservation of the Church to suppresse that party and to bring the chief sticklers in it to condign punishment to the truth whereof lifting up his wet eyes to Heaven he took God to witnesse conjuring me as I would answer it to God at the day of Judgement that if ever I came to any of those places which he and his Brethren by reason of their great age were not like to hold long I would imploy all such abilities as God had given me in suppressing that party who by their open undertakings and secret practices were like to be the ruine of this flourishing Church After some words of mine upon that occasion I found some argument to divert him from those sad remembrances and having brought him to some reasonable composednesse I took leave for the present and some two or three dayes after waiting on him again he then told me the reason of his sending for me the time before And this I deliver for a truth on the faith of a Christian which I hope will over-ballance any Evidence which hath been brought to prove such Popish inclinations as he stands generally charg'd with in our Author's History Fuller I verily believe all and every one of these Passages to be true and therefore may proceed Dr. Heylyn Our Author proceeds Fol. 217. However most apparent it is by many passages in his life that he endeavoured to take up many controversies betwixt us and the Church of Rome And this indeed is Novum Crimen that is to say a crime of a new stamp never coyn'd before Fuller I call it not Novum Crimen which I believe was in him according to his Principles Pium Propositum but let me also add was Frustraneus Conatus and that not onely ex Eventu because it did not but ex Natura Rei because it could not take Effect such the reall Unreconcileablenesse betwixt us and Rome Dr. Heylyn I thought that when our Saviour said Beati Pacifici it had been sufficient warrant unto any man to endeavour Peace to build up the breaches in the Church and to make Ierusalem like a City which is at Unity in it selfe especially where it may be done not onely salva charitate without breach of charity but salâ—â— fide too without wrong to the faith The greatest part of the Controversies betwixt us and the Church of Rome not being in the Fundamentalls or in any Essentiall Points in the Christian Religion I cannot otherwise look upon it but as a most Christian pious work to endeavour an atonement in the Superstructures But hereof our Author seems to doubt first whether such endeavours to agree and compose the differences be lawfull or not and secondly whether they be possible Fuller I confesse Scripture pronounceth the Peace-makers blessed In answer whereunto I will take no notice of Iehu his Tart return to K. Ioram What peace so long as the whoredomes of thy Mother Iezabel and her witchcrafts are so many Rather will I make use of the Calme Counsell of the Apostle If it be POSSIBLE as much as in you lieth live Peaceably with all Men. Which words if it be possible intimate an impossibility of Peace with some Natures in some differences though good men have done what lyeth understand it Lawfully in their power to performe such sometimes the frowardnesse of one though the forwardnesse of the other side to Agreement which is the true state of the Controversie betwixt us and Rome Dr. Heylyn As for the lawfulnesse thereof I could never see any reason produc'd against it nor so much as any question made of it till I found it here Fuller All such zealous Authors who charge the Papists with Idolatry and the Animadvertor knowes well Who they are do question the Lawfulnesse of such an Agreement Dr. Heylyn Against the possibility thereof it hath been objected that such and so great is the pride of the Church of Rome that they will condescend to nothing And therefore if any such composition or agreement be made it must not be by their meeting us but our going to them Fuller I remember some then present have told me of a passage at a disputation in Oxford When Dr. Prideaux pressed home an Argument to which the Answerer returned Reverende Professor memini me legisse hoc ipsissimum Argumentum apud Bellarminum At mi fili returned that Dr. ubi legisti Responsum This Objection the Animadvertor acknowledgeth he hath formerly met with but where did he meet with a satisfactory Answer thereunto Let me add It is not onely the Pride of the Church of Rome which will not let-goe her Power but also her Covetousnesse which will not part with her Profit which obstructeth all accommodation betwixt us And if the Church of Rome would the Court of Rome will not quit the Premises and the latter hath an irresistible influence on the former In this point the Court of Rome is like the Country-man who willingly put his Cause to Arbitration