Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
religion_n	church_n	government_n	worship_n	3,428	5	7.3798	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A91473	Independency accused by nine severall arguments: written by a godly learned minister, to a member of Mr. John Goodwins congregation, and acquitted by severall replyes to the said arguments by a member of the same church. In both which, sweetnesse of spirit, and soundnesse of arguments have been endeavoured. Published according to order.	I. P.	1645 (1645)	Wing P53A; Thomason E296_16; ESTC R200209	27,998	39

before Sadduces Pharisees and severall other sorts were permitted neither do I remember where they were compelled against their judgements either in matter of Profession or Practice except as being members of that Church to the main doctrines worship and government expressed in the Word and surely there is far more and better reasons for the toleration and permission of the Independent then can be given for the toleration of such persons as the Jewes did tolerate for these agree with Presbyterians in the main grounds of Religion and principles of the Gospel these are confest by their Brethren to be holy godly and learned and of singular use and benefit both in Church and Commonwealth c. and the toleration of none others are pleaded for in Mr. Goodwins Theomachia from that Sermon which you mention But wee will not stand on this particular because it may be one of the corruptions of those times to suffer such Sects especially the Sadduces who though for reasons not reproved by our Saviour as some other corruptions were not mentioned by him Wee have said enough before to this Argument As for those Doctrines which you say you would raise from that Text if you were to preach upon it I conceive the two first you mention are indeed very naturall but how you will draw the third from thence as naturall from that Text I cannot see but it would be a digression for mee to meddle with that and therefore I leave it to your own further consideration ARGUMENT IX I Desire to know whether that law Deut. 13. of putting a false Prophet to death or any one that should entice men from the Way of the true God there be not morall equity in it and therefore binde the Magistrate and Chuches of God to the end of the world Calvin and the Church vf Geneva burnt a blasphemer they looked upon the morall equity of that law Levit. 24.16 He that blasphemeth the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death all the Congregation shall stone him Why should not Christians be as tender of the name of God as the Jewes were Is not his name as great and glorious that it may be more securely blasphemed now then it might then But a Presbyterian president will have but little authority with Congregationall Churches therefore I desire that Mr. Cotton one of your own upon whose learning and judgement the wel-willer to Mr. Prynne hee that put forth the first answer to his twelve Queries would have men much to rely may be heard speak in the point in his book entituled Powring out the seven Vials on Rev. 16.4 5 6 7. Verses His very doctrine is this Upon the discovery of the deadly corruption of the Sea of Rome it was a righteous judgement of God and such as argued him unchangeable ever like himselfe that the Priests and Jesuits who carryed that Religion up and down the Nations should be adjudged or condemned to a bloody death His meaning is evidently this not because enemies to the civill State but because they carryed Ordinances Doctrines up and down the world which were no better then the blood of a dead man and every soule that drank of them died therefore they themselves must drink blood Within a few lines after his doctrine he quotes Zach. 13.2 3. spealing of the times under the Gospel 't is cleer from the first verse and so doth Mr. Thomas Goodwin interpret it in his triall of the growth of Grace God will out off the false Prophet and if any false Prophet shall arise his Father and Mother shall thrust him therow because hee speaks lies in the name of the God of truth be shall not live Vpon which Text hee thus glosses It is not spoken of his typicall death i of his death by Church-censure or banishment which have a kinde of death in them but of such a death as that he was not worthy to live because he cast a lie upon the God of Truth the Oracle of Truth In his first Reasons of his point he affirms that no Magistrate ought to have put Paul to death for his errours and blasphemies because be did all ignorantly 1 Tim. 1.14 had the truth been made known to him hee would not have done as hee did but such as blaspheme and teach errours wilfully after admonition twice or thrice the glorious light of the Gospel shining round about them those hee affirms ought to be looked upon with another eye ought to drink blood His first objection is this In the new Testament we must look for a spirituall death i Church-censure only He answers his Text is in the new Testament not in the old the new Testament sayes such are worthy to drink the blood of their own hearts the holy Ghost sayes hee will have it true according to the Letter and further answers that 't was one of Moses his morall lawes of perpetuall equity thrusting men away from God is as odious now as then In his fifth Vse he has these very words Heresie is no more pleasing to him nor blasphemie nor seducing nor to change the Way of Gods worship and to draw men to Wayes wherein they cannot enjoy God in peace murther of soules is no more welcome to God now then of old and therefore if there were a law to punish such with capitall punishment it is a like justice in God to enjoyn such lawes in every Christian Commonwealth His second Objection is this Conscience must not be forced men must not be put to death for their conscience Hee answers Heretiques were as conscionable in the old Testament as now and if any man have a conscience to turn men from God God would have men have as much conscience to cut them off glossing upon Tit. 3. 10 11. thus He that will not be admonished is rejected given up to the civil Magistrate to be punished or put to death not for his conscience but because hee sins against his conscience the cleere shining light of the Gospel Whereupon I thinke it followes that any errour whatsoever though not fundamentall if it be wilfully held and taught against instructions and admonitions especially if it make Sects and Factions let them be never so conscionable in their Wayes professe never so much of God to be in them the Magistrate may and ought to punish them according to the nature of their errours and their mouths must be stopped that their teaching do no more subvert REPLY FIrst if that law Deut. 13. of putting a false Prophet to death or any one that shall entice men from the true God be morall equity and still binding the Magistrates and Churches of God unto the end of the world is to be understood as it there followes of inducing to Idolatry wherein notwithstanding there is something peculiar to that nation as in the 15th verse of that Chapter If a City should turn away from the true God to serve other gods that they shauld smite the inhabitants thereof and the

that God should fight against them from heaven before they would sentence or smite I am sure Gamaliel seems to approve of rejoycing in the destruction of those two forementioned with their followers when onee they were destroyed and doubtlesse they were destroyed in an ordinary course of providence by the Jews God making no extraordinary or remarkable revelations from heaven against them or their errours and therefore I conclude it had been better to have sentenced and quite crushed them in the shell which had prevented all the mischiefes that were done the troubles of the State the subversion of soules not a few Mee thinks through the spectacles that I looke upon the place Gamaliel seems cleerly to imply that if the Councell could have discovered by any means them and their doctrine not to have been of God as before they had done Thendas and Judas finding them so peremptory as they did they might have passed their own sentence upon them and neither God nor Gamaliel would have reproved them for it but good service they had done So that had I been to have spoken to that Text these three points I should have insisted upon 1. It is a most dangerous thing to sentence and persecute the servants and truths of God 't is no lesse then fighting against God 2. God sometimes over-powers wicked men as he did Gamaliel to advise and the rest of the Councell to submit to his advice to make way for the servants and truths of God that they may stand and prosper 3. As to oppose the truth of God is to fight against God so to sentence and oppose doctrines which by the cleer light of Scripture are from men or of a worse descent is to fight for God and do him service this is implied I would gladly know how did God disclaime or renounce from heaven Theudas and Judas of Galilee with their errors that after the Councels forbearing might be a warrant for their destruction what contrariety unto God was discovered in their Wayes when they fell upon them that was not apparent when first they shewed their heads their opinions catching and kindling in the hearts of many might have stumbled the Councell into a longer forbearance of them as being easily of this Interpretation that God owned them and they went on in the power of God and therefore now more dangerous to resist them then before it consequently must never have parted the value of the least haire of their heads against them till they had seen fire and darts come down from heaven amongst them But doubtlesse their destruction was no otherwise but thus the Councell finding their Wayes thwarting Moses and the Prophets were sorry for their thus long forbearance of them sent out forces slew and scatter'd them notwithstanding their consciences notwithstanding their errours claimed doubtlesse a glorious and high descent How has God disclaimed the Church of Rome any otherwise then hee has done Antinomianisme Anabaptisme hee has cleerly written their condemnations with his finger in his Word that all of them stand in enmity and opposition unto him and his providence seemingly never owned any Religion more under the Gospel then it has done Popery and therefore why must not their consciences and Wayes be refrained from as well as the others I cannot yet see how upon Gamaliels words can be grounded the forbearance letting alone any Way that is once discovered to be not according to the rule the Analogie of the faith of the Scripture c. REPLY THat question concerning the Councels duty to proceed against Theudas and Judas in case it was demonstrated unto them their doctrines were erroneous notwithstanding Gamaliels advice to the contrary cannot I conceive be rationally answered except there had been a certain knowledge of the nature of those errours and upon supposition that those errors were grosse and dangerous as it is like they were even unto insurrection and sedition I answer that they ought not to have hearkened unto his advice but to have proceeded according to rules of justice made in that behalf and it is not denyed but that the Christian Magistrate hath a coercive power in matters of Religion in things that are of a morall and capitall consideration such as are prophane swearings cursings blasphemies and such things that first are against the light of nature and conscience yea secondly of cursed apostasie from Christ professedly denying him to be God or come in the flesh or wickedly blaspheming him teaching men so and thirdly such as are turbulent violent mutinous and factious in raising up parties to the disturbance of the peace of the State as the late Bishops did Neither hath Mr. Goodwin in my best observation said or writ any thing to the contrary in his Theomachia or elsewhere for I cannot see any such thing in any of his doctrines raised from his Text of that Sermon and the main point which he prosecuted and which was as it were the spirit and life of all those particular instructions therein contained was that For any man to endeavour or attempt the suppression of any Doctrine Practice or Way that is from God is to fight against God This point is proved and cleered and confest on all hands to be a truth of God and if you look into application he renders those obnoxious to the wrath of God who shall exercise any high handed apposition or contestation against any Way Doctrine or Practice whatsoever VNTIL they have proof upon proof demonstration upon demonstration evidence upon evidence yea all the security that men in any ordinary way at least can have that such Wayes or Doctrines only pretend God to be the author of them and that in truth they are not at all from him but either from man or of a baser parentage What is this against the just power of a Magistrate in matters of Religion and no more power then this can you prove even from the example of the kings of Israel and Judah ☞ and therefore if you will reduce the Christian Kings and Magistrates unto them as a pattern and example of their power in things spirituall and make the case directly as it is you must bring in some instance or other of a difference between the holy and godly Prophets and people of God themselves and that in a case very difficult and intricate and hard to be found out from the Scriptures or any of those wayes wherein God did usually reveale his minde and that in such a case the magistrate did determine the businesse according to his judgement and compell the dissenting party to submission thereunto and that according to the approbation of God and therefore an example for Magistrates under the Gospel such is the very case in hand as might be evidently declared Moreover there were those that did differ in many things of a very deep and serious consideration provided they made profession of the Jewish Religion and government they were tolerated as is very cleer as I said