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A39313 Hereticks, sectaries, and schismaticks, discovered to be the Antichrist yet remaining and the great enemies of the peace of this kingdome the question rightly stated and debated ... : with a hint about ordination and the covenant. Ellyson, John. 1647 (1647) Wing E631; ESTC R23279 25,773 37

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gift of discerning and so this power among them yet can it not be lawfull for them to proceed against men who hold Heresies nor indeed can they be properly so called unlesse they have acknowledged and profest the contrary thereunto before and so have departed from that truth which in their Communion they maintained which appears from this next verse to that we have in hand Tit 3. 11. where the Apostle saith that a Heretick is self condemned {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} i. e. that light which he had formerly received doth now judge him condemn him as it was in Iulian the Apostat who was forced to confesse at last vicisti Galilee I conceive men who never made any more profession of Christian Religion then what they have been passive in from their forced Baptisme and education having at no time attained to any thing which hath been so much as like a New birth or change in them and so were never reckoned or esteemed by Saints among the number of Saints or admitted into their fellowship or communion such men what Tenets or Errours soever they take up are rather to be accounted prophane persons or Atheists then Hereticks As it were improper to call either a Jew or Turk a Heretick in Scripture-sense though they deny Christ to be the Son of God which I confirm from that place of 2 Pet. 2. 1. where the Apostle mentioning false Teachers which should being in damnable Heresies he saith they were such as did deny the Lord that bought them i. e. though their Consciences had received such Convictions from the spirit that Iesus Christ was the Lord and Saviour of the world and so had given themselves up to him as such yet they afterward brought in those Doctrines which denied this again Object The next place Objected is Rom. 13. 4. where the Magistrate is said to be a Minister of God for wrath upon him that doth evil Now if you adde to this Gal. 5. 10. it appears that Heresie is an evil work being there reckoned among the deeds of the flesh and so punishable by the civill power Answ These places thus united I suppose do enforce the Objection and make it stronger then I have yet anywhere met with it But I answer there are in the same Gal. 5. 20 21. severall other works of the flesh numbred up together with Heresies which yet I conceive the Civill power cannot possibly take cognifance of as hatred emulations envyings and the Civill Magistrate can no more draw his sword against the One then against the Other no more against Heresie then against hatred emulation and envy Secondly for that place of the Romanes it was a Scripture written to the Christians living under heathen Magistrates th●se surely had no cognizance of the severall controversies or opinions which might fall in amongst the Christians in the profession of their Religion which the Heathens so much hated and therefore Heresie cannot fall under the power of the sword there mentioned and if so let all men judge how truly and properly these men apply the word and whether this be not a wringing of the Scripture like a nose of wax and a perverting of it to their own and other mens destruction I should have spoken more fully to this point but that I finde my self prevented by Mr. Iohn Goodwin in his late book called Hag●●mastix from pag. 58. to pa● 66. A piece worthy the sight of such men who enquire after Truth One great question yet remains to which I shall speak a word or two and so end Q. If Heresie Schism be of such a doubtfull nature and so hard to be found out if Hereticks and Schismaticks prove to be such whom we least suspected if that gift of discerning whereby they should be known be lost in the Apostacy of the Churches if the imposing our own fallible thoughts and expositions upon the consciences of other men be Antichristianisme and a setting up of the man of fin what shall be done in regard of our Solemn League and Covenant whereby we are engaged to endeavour the extirpation of H●r●sta and Schisme and to bring the Churches in the three kingdoms to a Vniformity c. Answ. I say concerning the Covenant in reference to the Presbyterians as they sometimes spake of the Church in reference to the Prelates they dazle the eyes and astonish the senses of poor people with the glorious name of the Covenant This is the Gorgans head that hath enchanted them and held them in bondage to their Presbyterian Errours All their speech is of the Covenant the Covenant neglecting in the mean time God and the Scriptures It matters not for other things in the Covenant as you may see in the next answer so as men will but walk according to the same in their interpretation in an outward uniformity of Religion and in a visible form of Church Government and worship then which nothing can be more against the power of godlinesse which consists in an invisible and internall breathing panting working and acting of the soul toward God for God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth All outward Forms imposed do but ordinarily and commonly breed Atheisme and hypocrisie It were well therefore that the Civill powers would be carefull how they engage carnall men in Religious Covenants and about spirituall things I answer we seem very zealous for extirpation of that which is neither in our cognizance nor power and for prophanesse and such things as are against the power of godlines which in the same clause we covenant against and against which the laws of God and men are in force and which are certainly and undoubtedly in the cognizance of the civill power and for which he must give an account to God how doth every one cry out upon the neglect of these whose eyes and ears are not full of the Reelings Railings Belchings Vomitings Swearings Cursings Lyings Stealings Brawlings and Fightings of Drunkards Liars Adulterers Whoors Prophane Gracelesse Godlesse persons and yet these are altogether or in a great measure unpunished due execution of Laws against these were a right Reformation indeed acceptable to God and all good men Sin open grosse palpable sin doth so abound every where that no just man can walk up and down without vexing his righteous soul for the unclean conversation of the wicked Remember who those men are reproved by our Saviour Matth. 23. 24 that thus strain at a gnat and swallow a camel I answer That we are in our severall places and callings to endeavour against these in like manner Art 2. now God calls us out against these men in case we could discern them infallibly not with a sword of steel but the sword of the spirit the word of God which is mighty through God to convince gain-sayers and the servant of the Lord must strive no otherwise then thus as I shewed before If men will but truly and
according to them and require no more of others but to do so who doth not see sith all necessary truths are plainly and evidently set down in Scripture there would of necessity be amongst all men in all things necessary unity of opinion unity of love and a spirit of mutuall toleration By which means all Schisme and Heresie would be banished the world and those wretched contentions which now rend and tear in pieces not the coat but the Members and Bowels of Christ which mutual Pride Tyranny cursing killing and damning would fain make mortall should speedily receive a most blessed conclusion By this means indeed should the Lord be one and his name one in the Nations which onenesse is not meant of any outward form but of the onenesse of love and affection in the spirit Doubtlesse at this day the most vehement Accusers are the greatest Schismaticks and those who talk of Uniformity do drive at Tyrannie and will have peace with none but their slaves and vassals By a late learned Antagonist of the Church of Rome and that whilest the Prelates were in their pride it was truly said Nothing is more against Religion then to force Religion Humane violence may make men counterfeit but cannot make them believe and is good for nothing but to breed form without and Atheism within Besides if this means of bringing men to embrace any Religion were generally used as if it may be justly used in any place by those that have power and think they have Truth Certainly it cannot with reason be denied but that it may be used in every place by those that have power as well as they and think they have truth as well as they what could follow but the maintenance perhaps of truth but perhaps only of the profession of it in one place and the oppression of it in a thousand what will follow but the preservation perhaps of unity but perhaps only of uniformity in particular States but the Imortalizing of the great and lamentable division of Christendom and the world Therefore what can follow from it but perhaps in the judgement of carnall policy the Temporall benefit and tranquility of temporall States and Kingdoms but certainly the infinite prejudice if not the desolation of the Kingdom of Christ and therefore it well becomes them who have their portions in this life and serve no higher State then that of England Scotland or Ireland nor this neither no farther then they may serve themselves by its to maintaine by Worldly power and violence their State inframent Religion But they that the indeed lovers of Christ of Truth of the Church of mankinds ought with all courage to oppose themselves against it as Antichristian and a Common enemy to all these They that know there is a King of Kings by whose will and pleasure Kingdoms stand and fall they know that to no King or State any thing can be profitable which is unjust our experiment is too neer us at this day The desolations of our State are witnesses hereof and that nothing can be more evidently unjust then to force weak men by the profession of a Religion which they beleeve not to loose their own eternall happinesse least they loose their temporall Estates and quietnesse there being no danger to any state from any mans opinion unlesse such by which disobedience to authority or impiety is taught unlesse this bloody Doctrine be joyned with it that it is lawfull for the Magistrate by humane violence to enforce men to his own Religion Oh let not our Magistrates in this take part with the scarlet Whore who for these many Ages hath daily sacrificed thousands of poor innocent Christians under the name of Hereticks Sectaries and Schismaticks Doubtlesse if our Lord Jesus Christ himself would have submitted to the expositions and interpretations which the Priests and Doctors had at that time given out upon the Scriptures they had never crucified him and put him to such open shame But because that he and his apostles after him would according to that new light which they had received endeavour to set up a Reformation all which was yet no other then a clearer and fuller Declaration of what the Scriptures did hold forth above and beyond the light and understanding of these men who were no other then the Divine Presbyterie of those times therefore received they such hard measure from them and suffered as Blasphemers and Hereticks under them and by their censure We have a law and by this law he ought to die Joh. 14. 7. Pilate though the supream Magistrate was no other but their Executioner then as the Civill powers have been in all Generations since to this sort of men who under a pretence of holinesse have daily embrewed their hands in innocent-blood Before I end there are some Texts of Scriptures which seem repugnant to what hath been asserted and would be answered as Object That in Tit. 3. 10. Him that is an Heretick after the first and second admonition reject this Text placeth a power somewhere both of judging Hereticks and proceeding against them Answ I answer True it is in the Primitive and Apostolical Churches amongst the rest of those gifts which were powred forth by Jesus Christ upon the Saints this was one discerning of spirits 1 Cor. 12. 10. but this gift amongst others in the Apostacy and falling away of the Churches which was foretold by the Apostle 2 Thes. 2. 3. and 1 Ioh. 4. 3. where the holy Ghost saith expresly that instead of the Spirit of Christ the spirit of Antichrist should come and was already was lost and because of the want hereof the Saints whom God hath stirred up to bear witnesse to the truth in their severall Ages ever since have unrighteously suffered been persecuted and put to death under this notion and name of Hereticks Secondly In case some Heresies may be so grosse that even to this day he that runs may read and the Saints according to that small measure of the spirit which they have received might judge them so to be yet this text belongs to the Church as their portion and not to the civill Magistrate as a Magistrate and what censure or punishment soever this rejection was it was to be executed by the Ecclesiasticall and not by the Civill power so that to apply such texts as this to the power of the Magistrate is one of the most grosse and palpable wrestings of Scripture that can be and yet is too common amongst the Gentlemen of the Jus Divinum Tribe in their discourses printed and unprinted as I my self not long since before the House of Commons at a Publique Fast heard that of Rev. 2. 20. Because thou sufferest that woman Iezabel c. which was written to the Angel of the Church of Thyatira either weakly or wilfully alledged to justifie their power viz. the Magistrates in spirituall things by which you may take a scantling of that gift among them Thirdly Supposing Churches with this