a thousand men inconvenienced in their temporalls then one righteous soul wounded in his spiritualls yea or then one sin committed to prevent all those inconveniences Vna Dei gloria saith Calvin a great Presbyterian praeferri meretur centum mundis Yea and one greater then Calvin I mean the Apostle Paul saith neither saith he any thing more then what an whole Christian State or Nation is bound to say If meat offendeth my brother I will eat no flesh whilest the world standeth that I may not offend my brother 1 Cor. 8. 13. But 2. Whereas wee still heare of wars and rumors of wars from Presbyteriall pens of infinite inconveniences and disturbances and turnings of all things upside down in States as if they should never die any other death in case any other Government should be indured but their own the truth is that such predictions or pretences rather as these are but a kind of politique agents sent forth to negotiate their Cause with the ignorance and simplicity of the generality of men who being indifferent for matter of Church-government but of firmly-resolv'd judgements to keep themselves as far from all that which is called trouble or disturbances as possibly they can are apt to drink in the impressions of all overtures or pretences which sound that way as fishes drink water and so are made Proselytes of a zealous inspiration for the Classique Consistory Primus in orbe Deos fecit timor That mixture of ignorance and feare which is commonly found in vulgar constitutions may easily be wrought and fashion'd by a politique hand almost into what apprehensions and indeavours suitable a man desireth if his design in this kind exceed not the compasse and content of nature for the darknesse of ignorance hath no communion at all with the kingdome of light but being in conjunction with an awakened passion of feare it disposeth the hearts and souls of men to receive any superstitious impressions of what shape and from soever the intellectus agens or hee that worketh upon it shal desire For my part I am not able to calculate the least rational proportion or conexion between a variety or diffrence of Church-government the distractions or disturbances in a State nor can I easily beleeve that all the Presbyterian Writers themselves do truly unfainedly fear any such effect from such a cause though some peradventure may For what if every congregation or Parish in about London had a different government or way of ordering their Church-affairs as they generally have somewhat more or lesse differing in the ordering and managing of their Vestries or Parochiall civill affaires the one being supposed as agreeable to the civill Lawes of the State as the other and each Parish respectively satisfied and well apaid with their own government I am not able to discerne nor cast it in my thoughts how the peace or safety of the civill State should suffer in the least by it But I can very easily conceive how a State may be very probably disturbed and I can give instances of many that have been by an universall compulsion of all the subjects thereof to one and the same Religion yea and how by the like compulsion to one and the same church-Church-government It is very strange to me that they that know and how generally it is knowne what variety of Churches and church-Church-government yea and professions of Religion there are and have for a long time been in the dominion of the States of Holland and withall how pacate flourishing and free from disturbance this State hath been and againe how that not onely a forme of church-Church-government differing from that kinde of government which is more generally practised throughout the kingdome of France but even a different Religion also have without the least occasion of inconvenience or disturbance to the State yea I might say to the great advantage and benefite of the State been tolerated yea little lesse then countenanced and that neer the very heart chiefe places of this Kingdom very strange I say to me it is that they that cannot lightly but know these things besides many other instances in other States and Republicks of like consideration should yet pretend fears yea certainties of I know not what inconveniences and disturbances to the State if any more Church-governments then one should take place or bee endured in it They that shall please to peruse page 23. of the Reply of the two brethren to A. S. shall finde many Scriptures of a friendly and harmlesse consistence of severall Religions and therefore doubtlesse of severall Church-governments in the same State besides some others And Lucas Osiander in his Epitome of the Ecclesiasticall History written by the Magdeburgenses in the 6th Century relates severall examples of successfull issues and events of such mutuall tolerations as wee now speak of Troubles and disturbances of States are far more like to be the fruits and consequents of rigour and hard measure measured out unto the Saints then of favour or condescension unto them for their accommodation They that think a State should work wisely for it self by any hard intreaty of the servants of God have forgotten wherefore Pharoah and his great host perished together in the red Sea Whereas p. 19. he taxeth me with a default that I neither discover unto him what that Way is which I there so earnestly plead for nor produce any one text to prove it Christs own way nor one example to warrant it c. My Answer is 1. I suppose that an understanding man as all men acknowledge Mr. Prynne to be that prosecutes a Way with so much violence and bitternesse as hee doth the Way there pleaded for understandeth it all over through and through and so needeth not any further discovery of it to be made unto him Such a man doubtlesse will take heed above all caution of stumbling at that stone above all other whereat the Princes of this world stumbled and were broke to pieces when they crucified the Lord of glory before they knew who he was 1 Cor. 2. 8. 2. I answer further that it was no part of my design or intent in those Sermons to justifie the Way so oft there mentioned simply or as a Way of Christ against all contradiction but only to justifie it against those common exceptions and vulgar objections there insisted upon and to demonstrate that it may be Christs own Way notwithstanding any thing that hath yet appeared to take away that crowne from it and so upon this consideration to perswade men as they love and tender their own safety and peace not to lay violent hands upon it untill they should have better grounds to judge it none of Christs Way then yet they had any This being the adequate and precise tenor of my intention in that Discourse I kept my self close to it and so had no occasion to argue any thing or very little in a cataskenastique or positive Way for it But because I
to hinder and set back the Gospel by their declining then ever they propagated or promoted it by their profesion But 2. Whereas he inferres that therefore they may well have power to chuse such persons who shall and may make Lawes to promote the Gospel and Government of the Church of Christ I answer 1. That Gods power to make use of unsanctified persons or a rude multitude to promote the affaires of his Gospel Worship Churches c. is no argument to prove that therefore men may commit the care and trust of these affaires to such persons or multitudes or interesse them in any such power which it is ten to one but they will use rather in a destructive then promotive way thereunto Gods power to powre out a Spirit of prophecie upon a person altogether ignorant of the Scriptures and so to powre out a Spirit of grace and holinesse upon a gracelesse and prophane person is no ground or warrant for a Christian Congregation to chuse either such an ignorant or prophane person for their Minister or Pastor 2. Neither is Gods will act or example in this kind as viz. when to shew the soveraigntie of his power over and above the powers of darknesse and the God of this world he makes use of Satan to give testimony unto his Son Jesus Christ as he did Mar. 1. 24. Luk. 4. 34. and so to exercise the patience of Job by afflicting him as he did Job 1. Such acts I say or dispensations of God as these are no grounds for the justification of such men who shall make use of the Devill to preach the Gospel or to afflict the Saints for the exercise or improvement of their patience Therefore nothing that ever God hath done how oft soever he hath done it either by unsanctified persons or by rude multitudes for the propagation of his Gospel the edification of his Church c. doth any waies countenance or warrant men to invest either the one or the other with such a power whereby they may endamage and make havock and spoyle both of the one and the other The reason is plaine because the evill Spirit that said Jesus I know and Paul I know yet said to the Exorcists but who are yee So the powers of sin and wickednesse in men which will tremble at the voyce of God and forget their natures and motions at his command will laugh all the conjurements and charmings of men in the face to scorne and will act their own parts and drive on their own way with what fury and violence they please notwithstanding all charges intercessions and obtestations of men to the contrary Therefore no power can with reason equitie or conscience be put into the hand of such persons I meane persons unsanctified and rude multitudes or nominating whom they please I meane from amongst persons eligible enough by the Lawes of the Land either for Parliamentary or Synodicall interest to umpire in the affaires of the Gospel and to make what Lawes they please for the government of the Church of Christ If it be yet objected and said But why may not unsanctified persons and rude multitudes nominate and chuse such who by vertue of such nomination may have power to make Lawes in matters of Religion Worship Government of the Church c. though not according as they please yet according to the word of God and such as are agreeable thereunto What inconvenience is there in this I answer 1. By way of concession that the grant of a power in persons so nominated and chosen to make Lawes onely of incouragement and protection to the servants of God in matters of Religion and Church-Government or to order some particularities in either onely upon incouragements to those that shall obey without penall enactions against those that cannot obey may possibly not tend or sort to much inconvenience Nor let any man think that outward mulcts and penalties are essentiall unto Laws whether in matters of Religion worship or in any other cases Threatning of bodily punishment saith learned Mr. Rutherford one of the Commissioners for the Kingdome of Scotland is not essentiall to Lawes in the generall because some Lawes are seconded onely with rewards Yet this inconvenience it's like would attend even such a power were it granted Those Lawes which should be made in matters of Religion worship c. by men in authoritie would be of like consequence amongst the generalitie of men with the traditions of the Scribes and Pharisees by which they made the Commandements of God of none effect I meane they would so interesse themselves in the hearts and affections of the common sort of men that they would soone place more in the observation of them then in keeping the Commandements of God An experiment of which inconvenience we had in folio in the Ceremoniall and superstitious injunctions of the late Prelaticall power when men thought better of themselves for standing up at the Creed joyning in Gloria Patri secundum usum Sarum bowing at the Name Jesus cringing before an Altar c. then they did of others for hearing the Word of God preached with reverence and attention or for walking in a conscientious conformitie unto it But 2. If a further power shall be granted unto men so chosen I meane by unsanctified persons and rude multitudes as Mr. Prynne calleth them as viz. a power of enacting Lawes and Statutes in matters of Religion worship c. under what mulcts and penalties they please who shall judge whether these Lawes and Statutes be agreeable to the word of God or no If they themselves the Law-makers shall be Judges miserable is the condition of the servants of God under them like to be because it is not to be expected but that they will avouch whatever Lawes or Statutes they shall make in this kind to be agreeable to the word of God The Popish Parliaments during the reigne of Antichristianisme in the Land did no lesse If the people from whom obedience and subjection to such Lawes is expected shall be authorized to judge whether these Lawes be agreeable to the word of God or no which of necessitie must be granted otherwise obedience unto them can never be yeelded with a good conscience this will reflect prejudice and disparagement upon the wisdome and prudence of the Law-givers and consequently enervate their Authoritie especially when any of these Judges shall give sentence in oppositum and determine a nullitie in such Lawes for want of due correspondence with the word of God The nomothetique power or Authoritie wherever it resides will never consult honour interest confirmation or strength to it self by making such Lawes which in their very nature frame and constitution are matters of dispute and which must passe and abide the tests of the judgements and consciences of the best and wisest of those that are to yeeld subjection unto them and that with so much hazard of censure and contradiction as Lawes made in matters
the Parliament though I dare not gain-say it fearing lest Mr. Pryn claiming as it should seem a priviledge to make the privileges of Parliament what he pleaseth should make it a presumptuous and wilfull undermining of the undoubted priviledges of Parliament by the very roots yet I must ingenuously professe that it is a notion which I know not how to procure quarter for in my brain as yet What I may doe hereafter when the Gentleman shall bestow more cost and pains upon it to reconcile the disproportion which for the present it carrieth to my understanding I will not predetermine But none of all the Authors or Books that ever yet I was debtor unto for any grain or scruple of that knowledge wherewith God hath pleased to recompence my labour in studying ever licensed mee to call any Assembly the Representative Church of any State or Kingdome wherein there is not so much as any one Church-officer to be found Whereas he affirmes it in the same page a truth so cleare that no rationall man good Christian or subject can deny it that the whole representative Church and State of England in Parliament have sufficient authoritie by Gods law to over-rule and bind all or any particular members or congregations of it as well as the major part of an Independent Congregation power to over-vote and rule the lesser part and to order yea bind any of their particular members though for the danger aforesaid it be not perhaps so safe for me simply to call the latter assertion touching the comparison between the two powers either an error or a mistake yet that this assertion should be a truth so royally qualified that no reasonable man or good Christian can deny it seemes not so reasonable The reason is because in an Independent congregation all the members by free and voluntary consent have submitted themselves to the regulation and order of the whole body or which is the same of the major part of it and therefore this body having received a lawfull power in a lawfull way for the reiglement of her respective members may lawfully exercise it according to the tenor and true intent of the delegation of it whereas there are many thousands in the Church and State of England who by Mr. Prynnes owne acknowledgement p. 24. line 3. 4. have not given any such consent for their regulation in matters Ecclesiasticall and which concerne Religion unto the Parliament yea and there are many thousands more besides those which hee there describes and intends who will not owne any such Resignation Therefore the difference between the one case and the other is very broad and no lesse considerable so that a reasonable man may without any dispraise to his Reason and a good Christian without any prejudice to the goodnesse of his Christianity demurre a while before judgement upon the case Besides there is no question or ground of doubting but that a good Christian may lawfully and with a good conscience submit himself unto a godly able and faithfull Pastor together with his people whom he hath good ground to judge godly and faithfull also as well for their edification in their most holy faith as for the inspection regulation of themselves in matters of life and conversation But whether it be lawfull to submit to any man or any rank or association of men especially of men of whose sufficiencie and faith fulnesse in the things of God and Jesus Christ we have either but a very slender or no testimony at all yea whose persons are altogether unknowne to us in matters which concerne the worship and service of God cannot but be a question and that of great moment to all considering and conscientious men who are not already satisfied in the negative part of it The Apostles doe not onely permit but give it in charge to Christians in Church-fellowship to submit themselves one to another in the feare of God Eph. 5. 21. i. to be yeelding and tractable easie to be intreated one by another And submit your selves every man unto another 1 Pet. 5. 5. If one man ought to submit to another man in this kind much more ought one to submit unto many and most of all to the whole society of Saints whereof he is a member But as touching submission unto any man or men whatsoever in matters which concerne the worship and service of God the Scripture is so farre from imposing this upon any man that it imposeth the contrary and that with great Emphasis and weight Call no man your father upon earth is our Saviours owne charge Matth. 23. 9. for one is your Father which is in heaven And in the preceding verse Be ye not called Rabbi for one is your master or Doctor even Christ and ye all are brethren And the Apostle 1 Cor. 7. 23. Yee are bought with a price be ye not the servants of men He speakes of a servility or subjection in judgement and conscience to the decisions or determinations of men in matters of conscience and Religion And whosoever doth submit or subject himselfe in things of this nature unto any man or men whosoever that is resigne up his judgement and conscience to be ordered obliged and tied by the meere authority or magistery of men in such things Call's men Fathers on earth makes himselfe a servant unto men and consequently makes himself a transgressor both of our Saviours injunction and charge in this behalf and of his Apostles also Thirdly he that submits himselfe to a Pastor and Congregation of Saints for such regulation as hath been mentioned is presumed to know and understand before-hand of what spirit both the one and the other are how matters appertaining to the worship and service of God are carried managed and ordered amongst them so that he may with the full concurrence and consent of his judgement and conscience submit himselfe unto them as touching communion with them in their practice in this kind but what any Synod Assembly or Court of men will determine or enjoyn in such things cannot be known before-hand by any man and consequently no man can with a good conscience submit himselfe unto them as touching any of their determinations or decisions untill he first understands what they are and whether according to the light and judicature of his conscience agreeable to the word of God Fourthly in case a Pastor and Congregation shall afterwards so farre alter and vary from that posture either in Doctrine or practice wherein they stood when a man first joyned and submitted himselfe unto them that hee cannot with the peace of his conscience walk any longer with them hee may with leave obtained or otherwise if by request it cannot be obtained withdraw himselfe without any inconvenience from their communion and incorporate himselfe elswhere as he judgeth best This may bee done with farre lesse trouble and inconvenience then ordinarily a man upon a dislike of his Parochial Pastor can remove out of one Parish
into another But when such things concerning the worship and service of God which a man cannot with a good conscience submit unto shall be enacted and commanded under mulcts and penalties by those that have power and authority over us wee cannot refuse subjection hereunto but at our perill and with the sustaining of what detriment or dammage whether in our estates liberties or otherwise as the commanders shall please to impose Therefore the case between a particular Congregation and the representative body of a Kingdome is farre different Fifthly and lastly the representative Church and State of a Kingdome may and doth ordinarily differ from it selfe in poynt of judgement touching matters of Religion at severall times as much as heaven and earth Such Bodies in the dayes of Queene Mary and before stood up for Lordly Episcopacie which you confesse page 8. that Body which now is hath by solemne covenant abjured And besides enacted many things concerning the worship service of God which other Bodies of the same representation and power have since repealed And the nature and claim of such Bodies as these in their severall successions is that what powersoever hath been either given unto or exercised by any of the Predecessors of right appertains to the Successor So that suppose the representative Body now in being shall be freely and willingly submitted unto as having a lawfull power to establish what they shall please in matters of Religion as most agreeable to the word of God this submission doth not onely interesse or confirm them in this power but in the consequence and construction of it is the like interessing and confirmation in the same power of all their successors of what constitution or judgement soever they shall bee for matters of Religion Whereas for particular Independent Congregations loquendum ut vulgus their present constitution being sound safe as touching their members being all in the judgment of charity and discretion too persons of conscience and of competent understanding they are not like in an ordinary way of providence to degenerate or decline in their successors and besides in case they should their interest and authority over any of their members may at any time and under their greatest confirmations be declin'd without any considerable dammage or inconveence as was formerly shewed So that Mr. Prynnes Truth now under consideration I meane his Assertion so called is nothing so cleare but that a rationall man may deny it yea the more rationall a man is he is the more like to deny it The Antiquerist having said that the Saints think Christ alone is King over his Churches and hath not left them to Substitutes c. whereas Mr. Prynne page 6. replies thus If hee meanes it onely of matters of Faith or of internall government over the soules of men it may pass as tolerable it is as I conceive an expression which may not pass as tolerable being worse then an ordinary error or then more then an ordinary mistake He that calls any thing tolerable must needs suppose it either to be evil or inconvenient at the best Now if Mr. Prynne thinks it either evill or inconvenient that Christ should be King alone over his Churches in matters of faith and internall government of their soules it is no marvell if he seeks to interesse men in a Legislative power over his Churches in respect of their externall government it is a marvell rather that he seekes not to infringe his title and claime even to the internall government of their soules also and that hee anoints not Representative Bodies of Churches and States with authority to repeale the Articles of the old Creed and to enact another Whereas in the same page hee tells his Antiquerist that hee must renounce his oath of Allegeance his late Protestation and Nationall Vow and Covenant make foure or five Canonicall Scriptures Apocrypha with some such other mormolukies as these if he thinkes Christ to be King alone over his Churches in point of externall Ecclesiasticall government Discipline or Order I conceive this consequence of his to be inconsequent a mistake For first the Scriptures he specifies Rom 13. 1. to 6. 1 Pet. 2. 13. 14. Tit. 3. 1. 1 Tim. 2. 1 2 3 4. speake nothing of Ecclesiasticall Government nor of any subjection unto Kings or Rulers in matters of Conscience or Religion but onely of that obedience which is due unto them in civill things yea some of them the last by name not so much as of either And secondly for the Nationall vow and Covenant doubtlesse they that took and sware that did not abjure the absolute Monarchicall Independent power of Christ over his Churches nor did they swear homage or fealty to any other Lord or Lords but with a Salvo jure c. saving the rights and priviledges of the Lord Paramount Jesus Christ amongst which that is one of the most undoubted ones to have the sole dominion over the faith and consciences of men especially in things concerning the worship and service of God And thirdly and lastly for the Oath of Allegeance and late Protestation either there is nothing contained in either of these but what is of a cleare and perfect consistence with this sole dominion of Christ over the faith and consciences of men or if there be the renouncing of them will be more honourable and safe for Christians then their taking of them was or then their standing by their ingagement in that kind will be But whereas page 7. he affirmes that Christ hath delegated his Kingly power to Christian Kings Magistrates and highest civill powers as likewise bequeathed his Propheticall Office unto Ministers these certo certius are errors in the highest undermining I shall not abate wilfully and presumptuously in the reckoning the undoubted priviledges of the Throne of Jesus Christ by the very roots For are not the Offices of Christ incommunicable appropriable only unto him who is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 God Man and Mediator Or is Christ retired from the throne of his glory to live privatly as a Recluse to solace enjoy himselfe in some solitary angle or by-corner of heaven Or hath he eas'd his shoulder of that great burthen of the government of the world which was laid by God upon it devolving it upon the shoulders of others Where is then the promise of the Everlastingnesse of his Kingdome and of the continuance of his dominion throughout all ages And where is the prediction of his delivering up his Kingdome unto his Father if he hath delivered it up or down rather unto men Surely he means to call for it againe out of their hands before that day But if Kings and Magistrates have the Kingly Power of Christ delegated unto them they have all power given unto them both in Heaven and Earth and consequently have not onely a right and lawfullnesse of Authoritie to command as well all the Angels of Heaven as men on Earth but also to
time proceed from Kings Magistrates whether Heathen or Christian unto which we cannot submit with a good conscience and for conscience sake but are necessitated even for conscience sake to decline them Onely we question whether Kings Magistrates Heathen or Christian have any power from God to punish good and godly men for declining such commands of theirs for conscience sake which they cannot for conscience sake submit unto 6. For those Princes and Magistrates who were long sence predicted to become nursing Fathers to the Church under the Gospel we wish them all Christian care tendernesse and compassion according to the nature and tenor of this so honourable a service and imployment so long sence by prophecie from God assign'd and recommended unto them But whether it be proper for those that desire to be look'd upon as nursing Fathers of the Church to sacrifice the peace and comfort of one part of the children of the Church upon the service of the wills or humors of another part of them I leave to nursing mothers who have twins of their womb hanging upon their breasts to judge and determine 7. And lastly for the good and wholesome Laws enacted by Cyrus Artaxerxes Darius c. for the worship of God c. We gave I trust a good and wholesome answer in the former part of this discourse published some weeks since Wee freely grant a power yea and more then a power a necessitie by way of dutie in Kings Magistrates to further the honour and service of the true God and his people in the worship of him It is onely a power of discouraging his people of interrupting and hindring their peace and comfort in the worship and service of the true God which we conceive incompetible unto Magistracie as any gift or donation setled upon it by God His third Argument or ground of jealousie against the way of his great Contestation is that it appears to be a way that will breed infinite confusions disorders by confounding the bounds of Parishes c. We answer 1. That Physicians seldome complain of sickly times nor Millars of those that bring griest to their mills The old saying was De morbo gaudet medicus It is strange to me that Mr. Prynne should thus prevaricate with his profession But it may be this argument is figurative and cat-antiphrasticall And so by confusions disorders c. he means peace unitie and concord amongst men whereby confusions disorders and consequently suits at Law will be prevented and cut off And the truth is that such peace unitie and concord amongst men whereby such unchristian mischiefes and miseries as these may in ordinary way of providence be prevented is the genuine and naturall product of this way and a fruit that is daily gathered from it by many 2. Whereas he chargeth this way with confounding the bounds of Parishes and in his margent cites p. 38. to 40. of my two Sermons for the justification of this charge the truth is that both charge and justification may go together and serve in the Forlorne hope having neither reason nor truth to second either For 1. the way he speaks of intermeddles not with offers no violence to the bounds of Parishes onely it thinks it equall that the bounds of Parishes should not offer violence or be houses of bondage unto the consciences of the Saints nor be as barres of iron against them in the way of their comfort and spirituall edification 2. Whereas I am sub-pena'd for a witnesse against this way touching the crime objected I meane of trespassing upon the bounds of Parishes May answer is that the printed copie of those Sermons of mine which I have hath ne gry quidem either in pag. 38 39 or 40. of any such matter nor hath it any where else any page passage sentence line word syllable letter point or tittle amounting to the import of such a charge 3. Whereas his pen spits this black reproach in the face of Independencie that it is a Government inconsistent with Royaltie and the civill Government My answer is that look in what degree this accusation and charge would be weighty and sore in case it could be prov'd in the same degree it is light and contemptible through a deficiencie of all and all manner of proofe or colour of proofe whatsoever The Roman Empire lost nothing of her beautie strength or interest by the Churches of Christ practising this Government in severall places within the bounds and territories of it If it sustained losse in any of these by occasion of this Government it was not because of their toleration of but their opposition to it 4. Nor is this charge that it giveth way to every sect to choose Ministers erect Churches of their owne without controule of any better commendation in point of truth then the former For it giveth way to no sect whatsoever without controule it reproves oppugns censures and condemns sects and sectaries of all sorts so far is it from granting allowance to them to choose Ministers and erect Churches without controule Indeed it knows no authoritie or commission which it hath from God to countenance the controulement of the civill sword against such persons who in the simplicitie not convicted obstinacy of their hearts are misled in matters of Religion it trembles to make misprisions in things of that difficult high and rare attainment as the acknowledgement of supernaturall truth is in matters of Religion and the things of God to be matter either of confiscation of goods imprisonment banishment death unto men though it denies not a power of restraint from opposing the received faith with publick disturbance and offence 5. Whereas in Answer to somewhat argued by me to make the innocency of Independencie touching matter of Divisions as cleare as the noone day he repones thus That those who in point of conscience cannot communicate or agree together in one Church will never questiolesse accord well together in one familie bed Parish Kingdome as experience manifests I answer 1. That experience manifests the quite contrary How many Ministers of the Presbyterian judgement are there in the Kingdome yea in and about the Citie that hold communion in all deare and Christian respects and terms of love and friendship with many called Independent and these againe with them The difference in judgement between them in point of Church-Government in some rather increasing then diminishing or dissolving their familiaritie and acquaintance How oft doth Mr. Edwards himself in his Antapologie acknowledge his Apologists to be dearly and deeply interessed in the love and care of many of his judgement Yea he commends his own love and affections towards them once and twice and the third time also How many families are there in and about the Citie wherein the respective members injoy themselves together with much Christian sweetnesse and peace notwithstanding relations to severall Pastors Churches among them I had it from a person worthy credit in a greater matter
that a friend of his a man also very well knowne to my self and knowne for a man both of honesty and understanding related to him how that having but foure persons in his familie himself being one of the foure and every of these constantly repairing to a different Congregation and Ministery yet liv'd very peaceably comfortably and contentedly together in the same house Yea and that he moreover added that except he should grant this libertie to the rest respectively he could not expect that good accord and agreement with them and between them in his family which now he found Yea 2. Experience manifests yet more then this viz. that not onely persons dissenting in point of Church-Government being otherwise united in the profession of the same pure Orthodox and undefiled Religion but that persons dissenting in the very substantialls of their respective Religions doe lovingly and peaceably combine and live together not onely in the same State or Kingdome but even in the same Citie yea in the same street or neighbour-hood and are mutually helpfull and serviceable one to another in all matters of civill courtesie often meet eat and drink together yea and are all of one heart and of one mind in promoting and maintaining the peace and safety of the State where they live I have received every whit as much as this in report from persons of good esteem and worth who have been ey-witnesses and diligent observers of such things both in the Low-Countries and in France Yea 3. that which is yet more then all this the Scripture it self implies that persons not onely distanced in their judgements about Church-Government but about the God-head of Christ and truth of the true and Christian Religion may not onely accord and agree together in one and the same State as Abraham and his people did with the Amorites Gen. 14. 13. with the Philistims at Gerar Gen. 20. 1. with the AEgyptians Gen. 12. 10. c. Christians with Pagan Idolaters 1 Cor. 10. 27. but in the one and the same familie yea and hed also 1 Cor. 7. 12 13. 1. Pet. 3. 1. c. 4. And lastly Not onely experience but even Reason it self manifests that those who cannot in point of conscience communicate and agree together in one Church may yet very well accord together in one familie bed Parish Kingdome yea evident it is that they who cannot in point of conscience agree together in one Church cannot possibly or lightly at least but agree together in familie Parish bed Kingdome For if it be conscience that sets them at a distance in matter of Church-government it must needs unite them in the performance of all such duties which are cleerly and manifestly such He that out of conscience abstains from any practise as not being satisfied in his judgement touching the lawfulnesse thereof cannot but be ready and willing to practise every such dutie of the necessitie where of he stands convinced either by the light of nature or by the Word of God Conscience being unpartiall between the negative and the affirmative and equally respecting its own comfort and peace in both Now it is no wayes probable if possible that such as are truly conscientious in point of Church-Government should be ignorant of such duties required of them by God in the foure mentioned relations family parish bed kingdome the practise and performance whereof will strongly and sweetly unite and accord them in the said Relations respectively All these things considered I cannot wonder a little that the Gentleman who makes so many Questions should make that Questionlesse in the negative which is so palpably plain and questionlesse in the affirmative But 6. Whereas I onely argue and demonstrate that the repairing of persons out of severall Parishes to one and the same Ministery or Pastor needs be no more trouble or disturbance then the like repair of persons of the respective Companies in London to one and the same Hall he represents this demonstration of mine as if I thereby intended to prove or justifie the Congregationall Government simply and accordingly insists upon 3 differences between the one and the other I know nothing but that he might easily have found out not onely 3 but 23 differences and have argued them all with as much pertinencie to his purpose as he hath done the three For we do not urge the analogie of the Government of Companies of Corporations in all the relations or appurtenances belonging to it as any ground or proof of the Congregationall Government we are better provided in this kind then so we onely urge the particular mentioned to accommodate and heal the pretended offensivenesse in the like in this Government Notwithstanding let us briefly see what advantage he hath gotten against the Independent way by his 3 great differences found between severall Trades and Hals in one Citie Parish Kingdom and severall forms of Church-Government As to the first we answer 1. That it is not so without dispute as he makes it whether all Trades Societies bold one another lawfull usefull necessarie agreeable to the Laws of God and the Realme I know both some Trades yea and some Societies too in London much questioned upon all or most of these particulars But passe we this Whereas he infers upon it that so they breed no contrarietie of opinions or disaffections c. We answer 2. That certainly experience doth not manifest this Contentions differences disaffections yea and Law-suits sometimes betweene Trades and Trades Societies and Societies are known occurrences in and about the Citie Whereas he addes that each different Church deems the other unlawfull so as they cannot with safe conscience joyn or communicate together and thereupon sever one from another We answer 3. That according to Mr. Prynnes notion of Church-Government it is not necessarie that each different Church should judge the other unlawfull c. because he supposeth that the Scripture is so indulgent in this behalf as to leave roome enough for variety of forms of this Government So that if he will but give others leave to be of his judgement this reasoning of his fals to the ground But Fourthly and lastly Though each different Church do deem the other unlawfull and so cannot with safe conscience communicate together in Church-ship yet this hinders not but that they may judge and think as well one of anothers persons and consequently love and affect one another and combine together as affectionately as persons of severall Trades and Societies do who have no more communion together in their respective Trades then different Churches have in their respective Churches yea there is far better ground as hath been partly touched already why different Churches though they deemeach other unlawfull should yet think better of yea and love the respective members each of other then there is that persons of severall Trades or members of severall civill Societies should do either the one or the other among themselves To his second difference I answer 1.
of Religion worship and Church-Government alwayes have been and ever will be exposed unto The point of agreeablenesse to the word of God in Lawes and Statutes about matters of Religion will be a farre longer suite and Question between Legislators in that kind and conscientious subjects then ever any Chancerie suite was or is like to be 3. To me it is a question whether in this assertion at least understood according to the proper importance of the words Men have power to make Laws and Statutes in matters of Religion worship c. agreeable to the word of God there be not contradictio in adjuncto as Logicians speak It is a very hard matter for me to conceive how any thing should be agreeable to the Word of God at least in matters of Religion worship c. but onely that which for the spirit matter and substance of it is the word of God it self There is no great agreeablenesse between that which is necessarie and that which is unnecessarie between that which is indulgent and favourable to the Saints and others in point of libertie and that which inthrals and brings them into bondage between that which is of divine inspiration and that which is of humane Now certain it is that whatsoever is imposed upon men by the word of God is necessarie and of divine inspiration and whatsoever the word of God doth not impose upon men it doth it in a way of a gracious libertie and indulgence unto men And as certain it is that whatsoever shall be imposed upon the Saints or others by men especially in matters of Religion worship c. which for the matter and substance of it is not the very word of God it self is first unnecessarie for otherwise we must make the Word of God imperfect and defective even in matters of necessitie which is Popery in the highest and secondly it is but of humane inspiration except we hold Enthusiasme and the revelations eccentrick to the Scriptures are yet authentique and of propheticall authority thirdly and lastly it is an abridgement of the libertie a cancelling of that indulgence wherewith God in his Word hath gratified the world Therefore whatsoever shall be imposed by men upon men in matter of Religion worship c. under a pretence of an agreeablenesse to the word of God in case it be not in the sense declared the very word of God it self it can have no other agree thlenesse with this word then Pelop's shoulder which if Poets feign not was made of yvorie had with the other limbs and members of his body which were all living and sound flesh Yea and whether any Law or Statute can in any sense be said to be agreeable to the word of God which shall make the Saints servants and bondmen where God in his Word hath either made them or left them free I refer to further and more mature consideration But 4. And lastly Suppose it were granted as a thing convenient that some should be intrusted or invested with a power of making Laws and Statutes in matters of Religion worship c. provided they be agreeable to the Word of God yet in asmuch as the making of such Laws and Statutes upon such terms necessarily requireth the most exact and profound knowledge and understanding of the Scriptures I cannot conceive that unsanctified persons or rude multitudes should be Authorized by God or by any principle of sound reason to have the nomination or election of those men but rather another Generation who may in reason be conceived to have a more excellent spirit of discerning of such abilities in men then they When men stand in need of the help and advise of a Physician Lawyer or Divine they do not addresse themselves to a company of children playing together in the market place as our Saviour speaks to nominate or vote amongst them what person in any of these professions they should imploy commit their concernments unto No more did God ever issue any commission out of Heaven to unsanctified persons rude multitudes men ignorant of God and of the Scriptures to nominate or chuse for him who or what men he should imploy to make Lawes and Statutes for his Saints and Churches in matters of Religion and which concerne his worship A man of ordinary discretion and that knows any thing of the nature or disposition of the Fox will never chuse a Fox to be his Caterer as our English Proverb hath it To his sixt and last Argument I answer and end 1. That it is not alwayes found that those who have no skill at all in Law Physicke or Architecture have yet judgement and reason enough to make choyce of the best Lawyers Physicians Architects when they need their help If this were true these professions would prove malignant unto and eat up the far greatest part of their own children and professors there would be very few in any of them that ever should have imployments For who is there that would set a bungler on work that hath judgement and reason enough to chuse a Master-workman Especially considering what our Engish Proverb saith The best is best cheape There is no man will ride upon an ox that may have a well-manag'd and mettal'd gelding to carrie him But 2. Suppose it should be granted as universally true that men who have no skill at all in the said professions yet had judgement and reason enough to make choyce of the best in every of them respectively when they stood in need of their help yet this supposition must be made withall that these best Practitioners which according to the other supposition will be chosen have given a sufficient account proofe and that to publick satisfaction of their respective abilities in their severall professions Otherwise how shall they who have no skill in their professions come to know or understand so much as by conjecture who are the best in them This being so Mr. Prynnes comparison or parallel halts right-downe Because many of those who are by the Laws of the Land eligible into places of Parliamentarie trust and power yea haply many of those who are of the best and richest accomplishment for the discharge of that part of this trust which Mr. Prynne will needs suppose belongeth to them I meane in making Lawes in matters of Religion worship Church-Government c. agreeable to the word of God never have given any publick account or proofe nor perhaps ever had opportunitie to doe it of those abilities which God hath given them in that kinde And if so how should the rude multitudes or the generalitie of the people ever come to know or understand who are the best or fittest men to be chosen into those great places of trust and power 3. When men stand in need of the help either of a Lawyer Physician or Architect it is a far easier matter to know how to chuse a man in any of these professions without running the hazard of much
I hope ever shall such a debtor unto error as to sacrifice my time paines occasions credit conscience upon the service of it But unto Mr. Prynne I shall willingly acknowledge my self a debtor if he will either acquit me of my crime by silence or deliver me from my error by his pen. FINIS a 1 Cor. 15. 10. b 1 Cor. 15. 8. c Gal. 14. 16. Amos 7. 10. Mat. 2. 1 2 3. a Rom. 11. 25. b Auri sacra fames 2 Cor. 12. 5. 1 Cor. 3. 15. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Phil. 4. 13. a Heb. 10. 37 b Rev. 22. 12 Sect. 1. Sect. 2. Sect. 3. Sect. 4. Sect. 5. Sect. 6. Sect. 7. Sect. 8. Sect. 9. Sect. 10. Sect. 11. Sect. 12. Sect. 13. a 1 Cor. 15. 14. Sect. 14. Sect. 15. Sect. 16. Sect. 17. Sect. 18. Sect. 19. Sect. 20. Sect. 21 Sect. 22. Sect. 23. a Exod. 23. 25. Deut. 6. 12 13. Deut. 10. 12. 11. 13. 13. 14. 30. 16. Joih 22. 5. 24. 14. 23. b Exod. 19. 8. 24 3. Deut. 5. 27. 26. 17. Josh 24. 16 21 22 24. c Exod. 20. 23. 23. 24 32 33 Deut. 5. 7 8 9 6. 14. 7. 5. 16. 8. 19. 12. 30. 13. 2 3. 29. 17 18. Sect. 24. Sect. 25. Sect. 26. a Mat. 19. 6. Dan. 3. Sect. 27. 1 Tim. 5. 8. Sect. 28. Sect. 29. Sect. 30. a Gal. 2. 11. a Where he chargeth mee to have presumptuously undermined the undoubted privileges of Parliament with I know not how many more Anti-parliamentary passages diametrally contrary to my nationall vow and coveuant c. Sect. 31. Sect. 32. Sect. 33. Jam. 2. a Page 18. b Page 24. c Page 9. Sect. 34. Sect. 35. Sect. 36. Sect. 37. Sect. 38. b Rev. 1. 6. Sect. 39. Sect. 40. Sect. 41. Sect. 42. a Mr Jacob affirmeth that for the space of 200. or 300. yeeres after Christ every visible church had power to exercise Ecclesiasticall Government and all other Gods spirituall Ordinances the means of salvation in and for it self immediatly from Christ Sions Prerogative p. 28 29. a Mar. 9. 39. a Mr. Prynne full Replies p 74. b M. Edwards Antapol p. 261. a Twiss de Scientia med b Ego inquit Fonsâ—ca in Academia Conâ—mbricensi hoc primus observavi Imo potius ego clamat Molina apud Eborenses meos His non cedit Leonardus Lessius Lovaniensis suo cerâ—bello de codem partu ambitiosè gratulatur Prid. Lect. 2. de Scient med a See Sions prerogdtive almost throughout a The Civill Magistrate arrogates not to himself any directive power in matters of Religion A. S. in his Observ Annot. p. 5. And againe p. 7. To grant them such a power viz. of judging questions in debate between the two parties in the Assembly speaking of the Parliament were nothing else but to joyne your selves with the Arminians c. a Act. 9. 15. Sect. 44. a Many godly and learned Ministers even such as are their good friends teÌ„der enough of them c p. 3. their friends familiars p. 4. That all the godly Ministers of Citie and Countrey should carrie themselvs towards you w th love respect fairness brotherly kindnes c. Et max The Ministers courted them by all waies of respect oft high entertainment of them inloving speech friendly couÌ„tenance familiar coÌ„ver sing c. p. 226 b I love their persons value them as Brethren yea some of them above Brethren and besides that love I bear to them as Saints I have a personall love and a particular love of friendship to some of them c. Epist p. 7. Sect. 45. Sect. 46. a Gravis enim est periculosus error in plurimis multorum lapsus etiamsi se intelligat exurgend pudore authoritatem sibi praesumit ex numero habens hoc impudentiae ut quod errat intelligentiaÌ„ esse veritatis asserat dùm minus error is esse existimatur in multu Hil. l. 6. a Cum turpis est medicina sanari pudeat Sect. 47. a postrâ—mò noÌ„ satis caÌ„ dide facâ—uÌ„t â—uÌ„ invid ose coÌ„memoraÌ„t quaÌ„tas turbas tumultus contentiones secuÌ„ traxerâ—t nostrae Doctrinae praedicatio et quos nunc in multis fructê° crat NaÌ„ horuÌ„ malorum culpa indignè in ipsa derivatur quae in Satanae militiaÌ„ torquerâ— debuerat Et mox Haec certissima et inprimâ—â— fidelis no tanquâ disâ—â—nt tursverbuÌ„ à vi nuÌ„ à medacibê° Dactrinis quae sefacile produÌ„t dum aequis onâ—niuÌ„ auribê° recipiuntur à muÌ„do plaudeÌ„te audâ—untur b Lutherus veluâ—â— molum Eridis misit in muÌ„dum cujus nuliam omninò partè non turbaâ—aÌ„ video Erasm l. 14. ep 7. c Pios hoc nomen titulum in mundo oportet gerere quòd seditiosiac schismatici ac infinitoruÌ„ maloruÌ„ authores sunt Luth. in Gal. 5. d Hab. 2. 21. with Heb. 12. 26 27. * Mat. â—6 6 5 Sect. 48. * Act. 14. 11. a The New England Catechisme called The Government of the Church compos'd by Mr. Cotton and thrice printed A Guide unto Sion Another small treatise butful of learning reading and strength called Sions Prerogative Royall The answer of the Elders of the severall Churches of New England to 32 questions sent c. Another Answer of the same Elders to 9. other Questions about Church Government Mr. Thompson and Mr. Mathors answer to Mr. Charles Herles Independencie Mr. Tho. Welds answer to Mr. W. Rathbone besides many other Treatises published upon this subject Sect. 49. Sect. 50. a Rom 14. 2 3 4. Sect. 51. b 1 Tim 6. 13. 17 18. 1 Tim. 4. 11. c. a It is not safe for any to receive matters of Religion without terious examination Who ever be the Church the Authoritie of it is not sufficient possibly the Church may one and therefore we must flee to the Throne of Jesus Christ the Head of the Church for satisfaction Whom shall we rather beleeve concerning God then God himself if there were a Councell of the most learned Doctors that ever the world had yea if an Assembly of Angels yet in matters of Religion concerning the good way the last Resolution must be into Thus saith the Lord. Mr. Th. Hâ—ll an High-resolved Presbyterian in a Sermon staled the Good old way Gods way c. preached before the L. Maior c. Apr. 24. 1â—44 pa. 16 17. Sect. 52. Sect. 53. Sect. 54. Sect. 55. Sect. 56. a Act. 19. 11. a Due right of Presbyteries part 2. pag. 404. b Mat. 15. 5. a Luk. 7. 32. Sect. 57. Sect. 58. 2 King 6. 20. a 1 King 17. 6. Sect. 59. a Eaque majestas 〈…〉 quae in constanendâ personalem quae in administrandâ seu gubernandâ Republicâ consistit dividi videtur Et meat Majestas Realis seu Imperâ— Republicae est coaeva quamdiu corpus ejus durat per manet etiam sub inter regnis alterationibus persistit quam ideò fundamentum Republicae possuâ—â— are Personalis conciâ—â— cum personâ ad Rempublicam redit Hujus majestatis 〈…〉 etiam post 〈◊〉 Legem populum Romanum aliquam retinuesse dicitur majestatem § 4. 〈…〉 c. l. 7. § 〈…〉 maj statem nostram F. de captiv postium l. 1. 〈…〉 Majestatem publica ad L. IuliaÌ„ majest Lex namque Regia de personalis 〈…〉 is translatione intell gâ—debet ego in tract de monarchia cap. 4. num 4. ac 〈…〉 per eam populus potestatem administrationis non constitutionis Et constat ex l. 2 § 1. 〈…〉 administrationem Re publicae non aliquâ—d ultrà Imperatori datum esse Christoph 〈…〉 Dessâ—â— Politico 〈◊〉 de Majestate c. Sect. 1. p. 5. Sect. 60. a Act. 20. 28. 1 Pet. 5. 2. Sect. 61. Mat. 2. 6. a Mat. 20. 15. a Mark 1. 24. Luke 4. 34. a Procliviores sumus quaerere potiùs quid contra ea respondeamus quae nostro objiciuntur errori quà m intendere ea quae sunt salubria ut careamus errore Sect. 64.