which euer hath bin in the world laying the worshipping of Images the inuocation intercession to Saincts the veneration of relikes other like impieties to the honor of God persuading the ignorante that al the was done to aduance him Vnder pretence likewise of his seruice he hath brought in all the contradictions and inuentions of men and chaunged with the time the true and lawfull seruice of God whiche consistes in the obedience of his Holy wil as he hathe declared it to vs in his Lawe and his woorde into obseruation of their commaundementes ceremonies by them inuented vnder pretence and colour of the Sacramentes ordeined by God for confirmation exercise and nourtour of the Faithe of his Churche there is crepte in the Masse which is not the ruine and absolute subuersion of the supper but also an abolishment of al the benefites of Iesus Christe and by consequent of the Faith of all true Religion vnder colour shadowe of Holinesse and vnder shadowe of chaste shamefast and honest conuersation whiche is principally required in the Ministers and Pastours of the Churche he hath established serilitie or singlenesse and hath taken from them al libertie of Marriage which hathe bene the occasion of muche Filthinesse Infamies stinking execrable Whooredomes Lechery which are amongst the Papists seene vnder colour of Praiers which wée are commaunded to make one for an other and Charitie by the which wee are bounde to succour the poore and néedy he hathe broughte in Suffrages whiche haue bene sung for the Dead Merites and Woorkes of Supererogation and other like Abominations vnder colour of the day of Reste which God hathe chosen and assigned to the sanctifying of his Holy name to the contemplation of his Woorkes to the recording and preaching of his benefites and fauours he hath brought foorth infinite prophane Holy dayes in whiche Goddes name is blasphemed his Ordinaunces corrupted and his Alliance violated Yea who can number the wicked abominations whiche were committed in those dayes vnder the pretence of the Keies and Discipline of the Church wherof the Administration and vse was giuen to the Ministers of lawful vocatiō as to haue a meane to preserue the Doctrine pure to enterteine a good order in the Churche and to withstande the slaunders which mighte happen by the insolencie of others he hathe established a tyranny whereof is happened an entyre dissipation of the Church of God a corruption of all estates and the diminishing of the lawful authority which God hath giuē to Kings Princes and Magistrates of whom some haue bene wholy spoiled aswel touching their goodes as dignities by the Pope and his Bishoppes and others so weakened that they are constrained in many places to bowe their neckes and lay it vnder their yoke and power To be shorte this may be noted and obserued in al the enterprises and actions of the Diuel that as he is a Serpent so hath he alwaies ramped creeping as it were couertly vnder leaues and likelyhoodes of godlinesse into the house of God to sowe there the disorder confusion and destruction which he pretended wherein wee see at this day that continuing and folowing as it were his earnest he bringes in the almightinesse of God a title peaceable and fauourable to al the worlde to the ende that vnder the honour and light of such an occasion he may dimme the eies of the ignorant and nussel them stil in the opinion persuasion of their errours which haue no ground in Gods woorde Wee beseeche the Readers as all others also in whom remaines a feare to God and zeale to his honour that with greate wisedome they consider of the saide artificiall practises of the Diuell beleuing not all sprites afore they haue wel sounded and examined them neither let them approue all things that may be proponed to thē vnder the name of God which at the first may seeme to resemble and appertaine to his honor glory but let them remēber the aduise of the Apostle to trie and proue the sprites with diligente regarde to the ende and marke of suche as propone them such doctrines And if on any behalf part wée haue to stād vpon our garde againste suche suttleties and deceites whiche are snares cast out to entrappe the simple we haue special néede of singulare regarde in this matter of Gods Omnipotencie wherof the question lies at this present for we confesse that it oughte to be knowne beleued and woorshipped of al creatures vniuersally that are in Heauen and earth and that the faithful cannot haue a better grounde nor better bulworke to defende them aswell againste the force of the Diuell and the Worlde as their other enimies together with all other temptations wherewith they may be assaulted Wée say this Omnipotency is as the pointe of the Shield vpon the which the worlde and al his partes is turned and holden vp Wée confesse also that this Almightinesse is not onely to be reuerenced of the Angelles and happy Soules in Heauen and of the chosen and holy ones that are in earthe but also to be redoubted of the reprobate and Deuilles that are in Hell whereof the one sorte of frée will doo folowe it and submitte to it and the other are constrained to stoupe vnder it and obey Lastely wee confesse that it is infinite and of a greatenesse incomprehensible to all creatures as the wisedome bountie iustice truth and other vertues and properties of our God. This is it that which wée confesse and beleue of the Omnipotencie of God as also that which wée thinke al Christians ought to holde and beleue And nowe to vse rightly this Omnipotency and apply it as apperteineth wée must iudge of it according to his Wil and of his Wil according to his Woord so that we ought not to attribute indifferently to the power of God al things good euil ordered and disordered conuenient and contrary to his nature false and true things But the better to rule and leade the thoughtes and cogitations rising in our mindes of the Almightinesse of God wée muste measure them for our regarde according to his holy Wil beléeuing that it can not be limited staid or hindred by any other wil or power which wold or can be set against it which S. Augustine teacheth at large in many places as in the fifth Booke of the Citie of God Chapiter 10. where speaking of God he saithe that he calles him selfe Almighty bicause he dothe all that he wil and suffereth nothing onlesse he will it Also in his 21. Booke Chapter 17. he calles him selfe Almighty for none other reason than that onely he can doo all that he will. Also in the Booke of the Symboll and Catec Chapter 1. our God doothe all that he will and that is his Omnipotency Lastely in his Sermon 119. De Tempore he is almighty as dooing all things which he will and ordeines them to be done These sentences with many other like founde in the writings of this good Father and
when the occasion shall moue whiche they had presently done were not theire intente to shewe contrary to the imputation of the Doctors that they wil not straie nor wander nor vary any way from the conference of the pointes of their confession Replie The Doctours Reciprocally agrée with the Ministers to the offer aforesaid with modification to adde for their parts the authoritie of the vniuersall Church and ancient Doctors for the interpretation and vnderstanding of the holy Scriptures when they differ or cannot agrée The thirde day of disputation being Thursdaye the tenth of Iuly THe Ministers haue shewed what be the protestations of the Doctors as not to come to conference for other end than to satisfie the Lady of Buillon and not to be instructed or informed in the pointes of the Religion they holde And likewise howe the Ministers protested for theire partes not to conferre with them in respecte they stoode doutful tn any pointe of their confession wherein they rested absolutely resolued By reason of whiche protestations they required that the first pointe of their conference might be that which the Lady Buillon hath publikely praied to be decided which is the Supper and the Masse to the ende also they might be cleared of the charge of imputation laide vpon them by the Doctors that they varied and woulde not come to the principall pointe whiche is the matter of the Masse but of the contrarye did eschewe and shunne the conference thereof Finally to the ende it be knowne whiche of them flittes from the decision of it they offer after that pointe be confuted to enter conference with them if it so like them touching al the other pointes which remaine in cōtrouersie as leasure and time shal be allowed them They required also to cutte of all confusion and suche as happened the daye before in the conference that the Doctors would propound particularely their argumentes apart and that aunsweres mighte succéede accordingly in like order by the Ministers or els if they wil propounde their argumentes and reasons together there shoulde be graunted vnto them a whole daie of pourpose wherein they might wel doo it without any interruption with this condition that the nexte day shoulde distende to the Ministers to aunswere by order to all their argumentes The Doctours saie that by that which is written heretofore of the Ministers it maie be easily knowne that they haue alwayes drawne backe as at this present they doo refuse to enter conference of things which they haue committed to cōtrouersie maruelling greatly that this day they wil not suffer the Articles of their confession to be examined by order as in the firste daie of conference they did require in the presence of the Lorde de Neuers the Lorde and Lady of Buillon with other Lordes and Gentlemenne presenting their saide confession conteined in a litle guilte Booke with offer to the Doctoures to examine them by order if they thoughte so good whiche they accoumpted very reasonable Whereupon yesterday they departed with this Couenant that from this daie they woulde beginne to examine the Articles of the Créede the Ministers them selues hauing demaunded of the Doctours whereuppon the◠woulde entreate And touching their speache of the Protestation that the assembly was erected for the instructiō of the Lady whose desire stretcheth as they say in her absence to be first iustructed touching the Masse the said Doctors say that the Ministers haue taught the said Lady with maine voice not onely error concerning their supper but also in many other pointes as they wil make manifest when the Articles of the confession by them examined shal be handled So that they desiring to instruct by order the said Lady in the catholike Religiō did determine to obserue the order holden of all the Fathers of the Churche that is to reueale to her how many errors are conteined in the Catechisme of theire Churche againste the Articles of Faithe notwithstanding that they persuade to those of theire Religion that touching those Articles they differ nothing from the Catholikes wherein bicause to instructe a personage it is necessarie wée beginne at the fundations and that of certaine Articles of the Créede wherein the Ministers and their like doo erre dependes a beginning of the proofe of the Real Presence of the Body of Christe in the Sacrament of the Alter they stande to folowe the order of all good Scholemaisters and Teachers in discipline and whiche the Ministers them selues obserue according to the methode in theire Catechisme And with good right mighte the worlde smile at the Doctors who are taken for instructers if at the pleasure of the Ministers them selues they woulde beginne to teache a personage by the pointe wherein they ought to end like as the Catechisme of the Ministers doothe ende of the matter of the Supper Besides séeing the Ministers by theire owne motion are contente that all the Articles of their cōfession be examined they haue no interest at all to make vs beginne at the firste séeing besides it is the consent of al order yet it is alwaies at the choise of the proponer to put foorthe by suche order as he thinkes beste the questions of disputations if any be wherein séeing they are bounde to yéelde reason of their Faithe as often as they are required it cannot be inexpedient aswell for the benefite of the Lady as instruction of such as shal reade the conference to folowe this methode whiche offer of the Doctors if they refuse they cannot shifte of the generall iudgemente of the worlde that distrusting their doctrine whiche they dare not mainteine they confuse the conference Touching theire requeste that in the conference the Doctors should exhibite but one reason at once to the ende they maie aunswere without confusion or els that in one daye the Doctors maie propone al their reasons and in an other daie the Ministers aunswere them The firste offer séemes reasonable to the Doctors and they accepte it for feare to enter into long speaches But for the seconde they neuer hearde that any suche was practised neither is it needeful to assemble in one place for that pourpose but sende their writings mutually one to an other Aunswere Touching to exhibite theire confession and their offers whiche the Doctors suppose the Ministers haue made they referre them to the Registers alleaging further that it appeares by the laste proposition of the Doctors that it is not vppon the confession whiche the Doctors saie was exhibited to them but vpō the Catechisme that they wil ground their disputation For ende the Ministers protest againe as before to the ende it may be knowne to the multitude who they be that refuse the lystes requiring that the order to argue and aunswere maie runne from henceforwarde enterchangeably betwéene them and the Doctors seeing it is méete things be equall and necessarie that the Doctoures yéelde reason of theire Faithe as wel as the Ministers Replie The Doctours referre them selues to that whiche hath bene sette downe
of the Lady after he had imparted his intente with the Duke hir husbande it was agreed that the persuasions should be ministred to hir in the presence of certayne Ministers as Spina with other suche as he woulde call vnto him with libertie to alleage what they coulde against the doctrine of Vigor vnder this condition that if after the Conference they were not consuted and wholly vanquished by him his daughter shoulde remayne quiet in hir opinion without further attempts to draw hir from it Herevnto the Duke of Buyllon did not vnwillingly condiscende and for a better proofe of his readinesse in the cause he imparted the whole businesse with the Admirall by whose aduise with others assisting the procéeding Spina was immediatly sente for who at his comming tolde the Lordes that the qualitie and humor of his aduersarie considred he hoped for no great frute in this conference as beeing far more parciall for the Pope and his traditions than of any zeale at all to the word and truth of Iesus Chryst which albeit was affirmed by all the assistants yet it was agréed that he should vndertake the conference that for two considerations the one to instruct and strengthen the good duchesse agaynst the sophistries cauillations of Vigor the other to take from him al occasions to brag as he is wont to doo that the Ministers durst not appeare before him Here the order methode to procede in this businesse was agreed vpon with licence to Spyna to require the authoritie and sufferance of the King that to auoyde confusion it might passe in a small presence that a certayne Theame and subiecte might be proponed to conferre vpon And lastely that there might be established two Moderators for all the Actes and two others deputed to gather faithfully all the Reasons and arguments of either parte All whiche orders béeing orderly communicated to the Duke of Buyllon by the L. Admirall and Spina he iudged them of suche reason as not to be denied warning Spina to prepare him selfe agaynst the firste of Iuly when the conference should begin in the after noone Spina intreated Monsieur Barbasta minister to the quéene of Nauar to accompanie him in this disputation who at the day and houre aforesayde conducted by thrée Gentlemen appoynted by the duke of Buyllon went to the L. of Montpensiers house where the duke of Buyllon aduertised belike of their comming mette thē in the hal and there induced as it séemed by the doctors who were in the chamber frō whence he came asked Spina if afore the beginning of the conference he were determined to make his prayers according to the custom of the reformed churches He answered yea and that neither he nor his companion either might or ought to set vpon a matter of suche importance as to treate vpon the mysteries of Christian religion afore they prepared them selues thervnto by inuocation to the name of god With which answere he returned eftsones into the Chamber of the Doctors who after some priuate counsell amongest them selues appoynted Doctor Ruze to tell them that for their parts they would not assiste their prayers and that there was no more reason for them to be present when they prayed than for the ministers to forbeare their Masse The ministers answered that in good conscience they could not beginne to dispute afore they had prayed to God and for the Doctors they had libertie either to assiste or be absent from their prayers at their pleasure but touching them selues they were content to make their prayers in the place where the assembly and conference shoulde bee onely they sayde there was greate difference betweene their prayers which haue conformitie with the pure worde of God as they them selues confesse and the matter of their Masse which conteynes many things quite contrary as is easely seene and iudged by suche as will examine it by the rule of the Scripture and therfore by reason of the impietie and idolatrie in their Masse as they can not any way communicate therewith without offence to God and bring them selues guyltie afore him so yet neither he nor the other Doctors his companions stoode barde from the societie of their prayers by that difficultie bicause there was neither poynt nor article which by their owne confession was not holly and consonant to god Doctor Ruze replied that they rested vpon a small matter but they answered him that as the principall exercise of Christian religion stoode vppon prayer so it was also the moste necessarie meane to obtayne Gods grace without the which mortall men coulde not attayne to any successe in their doings and therefore very dangerous to omitte it they tolde him also that they marueled on his behalfe that professing the name of a Doctor and a Deuine he made such a negligent estimation of prayer which is the true practise fruite and vse of all the knowledge touching God and his worde like as by this the worlde might discerne what was the nature of their iudgementes who measured diuinitie by idle and vayne speculations He answered that the Duke of Montpensier would neuer suffer such a brauerie in his house and muche lesse that it should be sayde that it was a place for the Ministers to make their prayers in The ministers protested to be farre from their profession to braue it and that muche lesse they would vse any brauerie towards Princes whom they honored with all feare and obedience but that they would condemne themselues if they vsed it to any man of what meane condition soeuer he were wherwith they assured him that aswell he as others which layde such slaunders vpon them afore Princes to kindle enflame them against them shoulde one day giue reason of their doings afore the maiestie of god Here Doctor Ruze asked them why they stoode so resolutely vpon this poynt of prayer they answered that the purpose of the Conference was to reueale the true sense of the Scripture and deliuer it to the vnderstanding of the Bearers which coulde not be done without the spirite of God who cleareth the vnderstanding of men to comprehende it and openeth their mouthes to pronounce it in which respecte they are to implore and obteyne Gods grace by prayers besides God hath commaunded all suche as haue neede of wisedome to demaunde it of him to searche what they would finde to knocke at the gate if they would haue it opened to them all which beeing not otherwise to be obteyned than by prayers they concluded that for that occasion their inuocation was necessarie They alleaged moreouer that all things ought to be referred to the glory of god and therefore prayer to be requisite in the beginning and thankesgiuing in the ende and consummation of all our indeuors euen as when wee begin and ende the ordinary refection of our bodies wee blesse and glorifie the name of God. Here Doctor Ruze tolde them that they should not haue any let to pray so that they prayed in their hartes but they
It is easie to iudge whether the ende of the doctrine which is propownded stretch to establishe and exalt the honor and glorie of God as if the same mooue exhortations to men to withdrawe whollie their trust from creatures and reappose and lay it altogyther vpon God to haue recourse to hym in their necessities to depende vpon his prouidence in all their transitorie affayres and lastly to prayse hym with thankesgyuing for all the benefits they haue which being presupposed there is no doubt that the doctrine including this purpose and ende is not good and to be receyued touching the obiection that our former aunswere fell from the boundes of the first proposition it séemes not so bicause the first matter propownded tended to knowe what was the grounde of our religion to the which it was aunswered that it was the wrytings of the Prophets and Apostles Question This aunswere is common to the Lutherans and Anabaptistes yea and to the Deistes who aboue the reast professe to searche the glorie of God and what else the aunswere conteynes and generally all men vsing this spéech coulde not but erre in all the articles of the Créede except the first But to cut of this circumstance of spéeche and returne to the point we thinke it not lawfull to vse a foundation of the scripture afore it be knowne and assured that it is the holye scripture and that there is difference betwéene the bookes of the same and also afore it be manifest that I haue a particuler inspiration of the holye spirite and that such a priuate breathing of the holy ghost be a sufficient ground of religion Aunswere The Deistes or other heretikes can not serue their turne with the sayde aunswere for the confirmation of their errors bicause the Deistes denying Iesus Christ can not glorifie God seing that to glorifie the father it is néedefull first to knowe and glorifie the sonne and euen so the other heretikes who notknowing the truth nor by consequent Iesus Christ whichis the waye the lyfe and the truth muste néedes be ignoraunt of God and howe to glorifie hym And where our aunswere is noted superfluous or to wander indecently we lay our selues to be measured and iudged by the conference of the demaunde and aunswere And touching the last point of the obiection that the reuelation which a priuate man sayth he hath of the spirite of God is to hym as a grounde of religion that is without the sense wordes of our aunswere which stretched onely to laye the foundation of true religion vpon the doctrine of the Prophetes and Apostles of whose truth all the church generally and euerie particuler member of the same are assured by the testimonie and inwarde reuelation of the spirite of God. Question All that is here spoken must be added to the other aunswere afore it be good and it séemes that the aunswere contaynes but matter of mockerie For it is most certaine that when all truth is in the doctrine of one man he is no more wicked or an heretike But we search still the beginning of truth and what it ought to be And touching the replye denying that the particuler reuelation is the ground of religion there is no great difference For if the particuler reuelation be a sufficient grounde for euery one to know that which is of the Apostles and Prophets it is by consequent the foundation of religion as being the grounde to know vpon what euerie particuler man knoweth and sayth his religion is founded Aunswere We framed our aunsweres according to the nature and maner of the demaunds by which appeares no likelihoode of disposition to scoffe or iest séeing that in such a conference as this is where is question to searche the honor and glory of God mockerie could not be without impietie But touching reuelation to be like to the scripture which is the grounde of religion we denie it and affirme them to be things different notwithstanding their coniunction as following one an other according as it is written in Esay Beholde my allyance with them sayth the Lorde my spirite which is in thee the wordes which I haue breathed into thy mouth shall not depart out of thy lippes nor from the mouth of thy seede and so as followeth by which maye be iudged the distinction that the Prophet vseth betwéene the reuelation of the holy spirite and the worde Question I leaue for conclusion of this conference euerye one to iudge of the conueniencie or agréement of the aunsweres and obiections And touching the wordes alledged out of Esay of the vnitie of the worde and holy spirite they be but spéeches without purpose and newe matter neyther ought we to compare the reuelation of euerye particuler man which was the question with that of the Prophet Esay who had the other proofes that the holy ghost spake by him and made demonstration thereof many times Lastly what soeuer is alledged I leaue to the iudgement of euerye christian Aunswere Euen so also we referre to iudgement what hath béene inferred mutuallie of the one other part And touching the place of Esay which we produced there is no question at all of the reuelation of the Prophet nor the spirite that was communicated to hym but onely of the spirite and wordes which God promised to all his people with whome he entred his alliance For the other proofes pretended that the Prophete had of his vocation we make no doubt at all of them onely we protest that to be principall and most assured which he had by the testimonie of Gods spirite as appeareth in the sixt Chapter of his prophecie Question Be it that he spake to his people by the person of Esay yet it followes not but that he spake first to Esay neyther doe I denie that he promised not his spirite to his people meaning to his vniuersall Church not that he would that euery one yea being in thys church might vsurpe or vaunt to haue this spirite promised particulerly And touching the particuler inspiration of Esay it was not founded onely on his fancie and presumption but in the assuraunce which God gaue him in supernaturall woorkes as is witnessed in hys sixt chapter Besides it was not sufficiently grounded to be beléeued as to haue an inspiration if he had not declared it by other effects and prophesies which hapned as belonges to euerie Prophete to doe afore he beléeued But referring all these things as matters fetched from farre and out of the first proposition I leaue the iudgement as before Aunswere There is not one of the church if he be a true member of the same to whome the spirite of God is not communicated according to the testimonie of the Apostle Paule and also the Euangelist Iohn in his first Catholike For the presumption pretended there is great difference betwéene presumption and the imaginations of the spirite of man which is but darknesse and of himselfe knoweth nothing in the things of God and the
gifte of God. They saie further that the lawfull Ministers oughte to he sente not of Pastors pretended and whiche haue nothing of Pastors but the Title and name onely but of God as appeares in Ieremie where this marke is sette foorthe to knowe and marke a false Pastor when he insinuates him selfe or is sente of other than of God. Touching the Article folowing they saie that the true marke by which we maie iudge certainely of a Reuelation is rather the woorde of God than the consente of many bicause it happeneth many times that the multitude in the Churche declining from the woorde doothe wholy swarne and goe astraie as in the time of Micheas Iesus Christe and since in the time of Constance the Emperour Touching those Prophetes who folow and are ledde by their sprite as they that leauing Goddes woorde reste vpon the commaundementes and traditions of men or the vanity of their braine it is not to be douted that suche are not false Prophetes and to be eschewed and reiected onely wée muste vse greate difference betwene the Reuelations and testimonies of Goddes sprite and the vaine imaginations of the minde of men To that the Doctors alleaged that Heretikes as Anabaptistes and others serue theire turne to confirme theire errors with those places of scripture whiche the Ministers haue produced they denie not but it maie be so for that the Scripture being common maye be alleaged of euery one Neither oughte wée to staie vppon that whiche is produced but to weighe and examine howe and to what ende and pourpose it is alleaged by whiche will appeare the difference that is betwene the Ministers and heretikes Touching that whiche was inferred of Brentius and Bucers opinion that by the onely tradition of the Churche the Canonical Bookes maye be discerned from the Apocryphal the Doctoures séeme to miâ—â—erue their purpose with that seing they mainteine that all the Bookes of the Bible are Canonical and yet by their reporte of Brentius and Bucer it appeares that both the one and the other according to the Tradition as they saie do put a distinction calling the one Canonical and the other Apocryphall To the Article folowing wherein the Doctors alleage certaine places of the auncients to take away the difference betwéene the Canonical and Apocriphal Bokes the Ministers answere that as they haue alleaged certaine to proue it so also they are able to produce of the same for the disproofe as S. Ierome in his Prologue named Chaleatus and in an other which beginnes prater Ambrosiuâ— to whome writing the summe of euery Booke of the Bible he makes no mention but of those which the ministers call Canonicall They are able also to alledge two or three Cataloges recited in Eusebius who receiue not for Canonical Bookes but suche as the ministers them selues approue The Councell of Laodicen alleaged by the Doctors speakes for the ministers as not comprehending that wherof there is question and touching experience they Aunswere that it is a question de facto as being better to be alleaged againste the Doctors than the ministers Lastly to the ende no more time be spente in so often repetition of one selfe thing and that we prepare to conferre the pointes of the Confession which the Doctors wil debate the ministers declare that the .xxiiij. Bookes of the olde Testament which are in the Canon of the Hebrues with all the Bookes of the newe Testament be approued Canonical of the one and other parte and they are sufficiente to decide wholy all the pointes of their Confession and generally all that belonges to true religion neither haue they occasion by the meanes of that to delay any more the conference in respecte of difference betwéene the two parties touching the distinction of the Canonical and Apocriphal Bookes Obiection Notwithstanding the Ministers say their religion is fouÌ„ded vpon the woorde of God yet they grounde Gods woorde vpon inward Reuelation so that Reuelation is the ground of the woorde and consequently of their religion for they receiue for the woorde but that which they thinke to be particularely reuealed vnto them Touching the other Article where they resiste the opinion of the Doctoures that Faithe is gotten by the hearing of Goddes woorde it séemes they offer to â—â—umble vppon small blockes as not to enter into the principall And where they alleage that faithe is a gifte of God and therfore not gotten it is moste manifest by many ordinarie textes of Scripture that it dothe not differ one thing to be giuen and gotten as the kingdom of heauen which is giuen to the blessed and yet we doe get it hauing true Faithe woorking by charitie the scripture also calles it the rewarde and recompence of good woorkes and S. Paule saithe that by liberalitie and almes men gaine the grace of God Yea there can be none other vnderstanding of S. Paules speache Fides ex auditu but that Faith comes by hearing Goddes woorde which is the obteining of the same by the meane of hearing it preached albeit it be a gifte of god They vse the like subteltie in going about to rebuke the opinion that Faithe is the truthe reuealed as putting a great difference betwéene the truthe reuealed and the Reuelation of truthe which subtiltie shoulde be of force against S. Paule who sayeth Panis quem frangimus nonne communicatio corporis Domini est which is as much as panis fractio nonne c. And therefore to speake properly the text of S. Paule must néedes lie subiecte to suche rebukes So that touching this Article to the ende not to incidente notwithstanding the Replie of the Ministers the Doctors will dispute no more of it as being a matter too muche impertinent séeing that in the ende it would procure spéeche of merito and so from one to another It gréeues them to enter vpon the vocation of the lawfull Ministers of the churche and therefore to auoide that question they will not alleage which they might without any superfluous discourse that afore their Doctrine be receiued they muste be examined whether they were lawfull ministers sent of the true church to preach Gods woord and to be heard of the people in their sermones according to S. Paules place alleaged heere before which if they of the newe Religion had well considered they might haue a moste sufficient argument not to receiue their Doctrine bicause it is no lesse cleare than the day that they are no Ministers sent by the Pastoures of the Churche but haue foisted in themselues to Preache and are not able to shewe any signe of their vocation either from men and muche lesse from GOD And if it were lawefull to euery one that saithe he is sent to Preache the woorde it were to raise infinite Sectes as wee see happeneth in this time and so they cease further spéeche in this Argument least they giue a greater heate to the matter Touching the Article declaring howe we may knowe a Reuelation to be of God which the ministers hold is
the greatnesse of our God to maintein his woorkes incredible by nature which are comprehended in his woord in our Faith and also to confute all suche as woulde deny any of them as impossible to be done by any manner what so euer And bicause Caluin and Beza with their Ministers raise them selues against the power and greatnesse of our Lorde and openly deny him to be able to commit the body bloude of Iesus Christ vnder the formes of Breade and Wine and bicause also that in the Religion pretended reformed to resist the efficacy of the woorde This is my Body this is my Bloude they teach not a more great reason nor more familiare to al those that are out of the way than the impossibilitie of God to be able to make a body to be in twoo or many places that is to say in the Sacrament and in Heauen wée obiecte with good righte to the Ministers that in their Doctrine they derogate the firste Article of Faithe which is of the Almightinesse of god And also we knowe that the anciente manner of the Christians disputing againste the aduersaries of Faith was oftentimes to beginne to aske whether that whereon they doubted were possible to God or not or whether onely he woulde not doo it in which sorte and order Tertullian and others propone the pointes wherein they enter into contention againste the Heretikes In like sort afore we passe further into the matter of the holy SacrameÌ„t we would in preamble wise fele of the Ministers whether they iudged it to be in Goddes power to make a body occupy many places or whether only he would not c. wherein wée are enforced to aduertise al Christians of one manner of dealing common to al the Ministers of the pretended reformed Religion which is when they are asked if God can establish the body of Iesus Christ in the Sacrament or not they aunswere that there is no question of the power of God but of his Will onely And when wée produce matter which declares the will of God then of the contrary they deny that his wil is suche bicause it is impossible to him Alleaging here their contradictions according to the nature of the body And bicause they thinke this to be impossible in action they depraue and interprete the woorde of the Supper otherwayes than either it beares or is written Here is also to be noted that wherin an Almaine called Heshusius reprocheth Caluin that he his felowe Ministers are goodly noble amplifiers of the power of God but when it comes to the déede and pushe as the saying runnes they neither giue or graunte him any more than they thinke méete to introduce their errours and fansies resembling as the saide Almaine compares them a good Traitor who most dooth cherishe and magnifie a man when he is most ready to betray him as Iudas did our Lorde wherin wée are constrained to say of the Ministers touching Goddes Almightinesse as Tertullian saith of the Heretikes Credendo non credunt which is in beleuing the Omnipotencie they beleue it not for when they haue saide that there muste be no exception they hold againe an other way that it must not stretch to euery thing that mannes sprite can conceiue and so they will not apply it but to what they thinke good couering themselues with the nature wisedome eternal wil of God which are no lesse vnknowne and incomprehensible to them than his Omnipotencie in which respecte wee aduise euery one not to be abused with the speach of Caluin nor his ministers but to consider the woorkes which they deny to be in the power of god Wée haue produced to them these foure questions Whether God may make a body to be in twoo places and of the contrary twoo bodyes in one place Whether he can lodge one body in one space lesse than his greatnesse and whether he can make it inuisible which haue bene specially culled and chosen for that vpon them are founded the principal arguments of the pretended reformed Religion againste the true presence of the Bodye and Bloude of Iesus Christ in the Holy Sacrament Wée beleue simply as al other things that the foure questions are possible to God and haue proued it by the infinitie of his power both by the scriptures who giue vnto him al vertue ouer creatures without any exception and also by Examples and straunge myracles don vpon bodyes against their natures which are writteÌ„ as Tertullian holdeth in his Booke of the Resurrection to the ende wée beleue that our God is more mighty than al Lawe and nature of al bodyes whereunto he addes that such knowe God very euill who thinke that he hath not in his power things which thei cannot comprehende in their fansie From whence it comes as S. Cyril saith that such wicked sprites reiecte and condemne al things as impossible bicause they vnderstand them not Besides wée thinke wée haue sufficiently shewed no lesse by expresse scripture than by the Exposition of the same taken of the Ancient Christians that it was not only in Gods power to make twoo bodyes to be in one place and one body without place equall to his greatenesse but also that he had already truely done it in the byrth of the body of our Lorde Iesus Christe in the Resurrection of the same â—â—is entry throughe the doores shutte and in his Ascension aboue al the Heauens like as also wee haue deduced that there was equall and like repugnancy in those deedes as in the other of one body in twoo places whiche by the scripture is no more excepted from the power nor will of God than the others as to iudge it impossible to be done neither hath there bene any Christian afore our time which durst affirme the same to be impossible and out of the power of God notwithstanding the occasion was often offered if they had any waye estéemed it impossible as the Ministers of the supposed refourmed Religion pretende Of the contrary the most parte of the auncient Authours of the Primitiue Churche haue holden expressely that it was in Goddes power to bestowe a creature in many places according to S. Ieromes opinion againste the Heretike Vigilantius that the soules of the Sainctes maye assiste in many places with the immaculate Lambe our Sauiour Iesus Christe Yea there was question Whether the saide soules and sprites of the Holy ones did assiste at any time the Churches where their Graues and Monumentes were the same resembling with S. Augustine in his Booke whiche he wrote of the care to be had of the Dead Chapter 16. wher he saithe that by the power of theire nature the soules cannot be here belowe and in Heauen or in many places but that the same may be done by the power of God and he will not resolue whether they vnderstande our affayres by suche assistaunce in many places or by reuelation of the Aungels or other meane of the power and grace of God. Morouer it is
only he could do it but also he would do it and so consequently are determined to refute all the blasphemies heresies of the supposed reformed side which are contained in the supper to the ende also we be not thought to eschue the combate of the supper the Masse as the ministers haue reproched to vs protesting notwithstanding to kéepe in meaning that after we haue concluded resolued vpon this matter to returne to the examination of the moÌ„strous errors of the ministers which containe great numbers against the other Articles of the Créede which the ministers feare by all likelihoode in that they are not willing we pursue the order begon as foreseeing that in the next conference we wold open vnto them an other blasphemie maintained by the reformed church against the bountie of God according to Caluines doctrine which is that God works in the reprobate the euill sinne which they coÌ„mit which is an execrable atheisme no lesse than the denial of gods omnipoteÌ„cie and in like sort as such as shal read these coÌ„ferences if they continue to the end discussing of the ministers errors their religion against al the articles of the Créede shall maruel to vnderstand the absurdities blasphemies discending from them so yet there is an other point the drawes the ministers to demaund the disputation of the supper which is that they haue al their matter redily prepared by many of their sect which haue written therof as especially they will not want the great Booke of Peter Martir by which they are furnished with sundrie infamous obiections certaine texts of the Ancients either cut of depraued or euil applied to impugne in shew the truth of the body in the sacrament but to the defense of all their other errors they are very slenderly prouided wherin their coÌ„science is a sufficient witnesse that by the scripture iudgmeÌ„t of general councels coÌ„mon consent of the authorities of the ancients they are coÌ„uinced condeÌ„ned of their errors against the said Créede But to enter into the supper of the ministers we say it is a prophane eating drinking not differing from the coÌ„mon eating drinking sauing that it is so much the worse as they abuse the holy institution of the supper of Iesus and pollute and defile such their banket withal impietie blasphemie we maintaine also that they do great wrong to the sacrament of Iesus Christe to attribute falsly to suche their banker so prophane and defiled the name of sacrament And to the ende to proue it more cleare we aske them if they receiue a common doctrine allowed not only in the catholike church but also of all the sects which are separated froÌ„ it the same is that in the confection of sacramentes there be two things essentiall and necessary the matter or the element and the woorde Secondly what word is necessary with the element to coÌ„stitute a sacrament namely that which they cal the sacrament of the supper and whether they must vse certain woords or not Thirdly if the woorde haue any vertue or efficacie in this sacrament and what And if it worke any thing in the matter of bread and wine Fourthly whether by the same woord the consecration be made of the matter of the sacrament or not In the fifth place if by the woord there be not made consecration of the matter that is howe the same consecration is made and by what vertue the sacrament is made For the sixth if bisides the bread wine and the spirituall graces benefites of Iesus Christ is receiued in the supper really the true body bloud of Iesus Christe in his propre substance not only in spirituall effect vpon this Article we require of the ministers an open confession of faithe We ask further if in receiuing the bread afore they take the wine they receiue by the eating of the bred the body bluâ— of Iesus Christ or only the body to beâ—â—â—rt if they admit that which the diuines cal a concomitance of the body bloud of Iesus Christ We aske also if the supper bisides the assurance it giues them of participation in the flesh of Iesus Christ in their redemption do woorke in them reâ—ission of sinne We aske lastly if by the supper there is receiued any thing which can not be receiued oute of the Supper or if withoute taking of breade to goe to the Supper or to assist it may be receiued as muche of the body and graces of Iesus Christ as if they did assist the supper We will debate afterwards the other Articles contained in the laste pamphelet of the ministers bicause the former demaundes are to be first examined as grounds of the other Articles proponed by the ministers For the rest after the supper of the ministers is confuted and the Real presence of the body and bloud of Iesus Christ in the sacrament confirmed we will procéede by order and withoute confusion to teache clearely by the pure and moste expresse woorde of God that the Masse was instituted said by Iesus Christe and that also he commaunded his Apostles to say it which they did according to the ordinaunce of their Maister That the Masse is a true sacrifice of the Euangelical law That suche as reiecte the Masse and admit no outwarde sacrifice in the Church nor priesthoode are without true law and without true Religion and therefore worse than Idolatrers That the Masse is of value to obtaine remission of sinnes fauoure and grace of God and that it is of value bothe for the quicke and the dead That it is no abuse in the Church if the Priest communicate alone in the Masse when the assistantes will not communicate with him That suche commit horrible blasphemie which call the woorshipping of the body of Iesus Christ in the Sacrament the worshipping of breade and wine and falsly doe they call such veneration of the body of Iesus Christ idolatrie To be short there is nothing in the masse as it is celebrated in the Church at this day which is not good and holy in it selfe and conformable to the woorde of God. We require the ministers to Aunswere to the demaunds héere before written pertinently clearly and by order Sunday .28 of Iulie the years aforesaide The Aunswere of the Ministers to the vvryting of the Doctors sent to them by the Duke of Nyuernois the .28 of Julie .1566 about .7 of the clocke in the Euening THe Doctors in the beginning of their writing reproche vs as that in our complainte against them we imitate the Donatistes wherin they iustifie oure former iudgement and opinion of them that the moste parte of their wrytings swarmed more with matters of repeticion iniuries scoffes and inuectiues than with argumentes and good reasons like as also the example of the Donatistes becomes them farre better than vs bicause the Donatistes soughte to restraine the name of the Churche who comprehendes vniuersally all the chosen and Faithfull that eyther
other Auncientes teache vs clearely the manner howe to make our profite of the Faithe wée haue in the Omnipotencie of God which is in referring it to his Will and iudging his Will by his Woorde and not by false imaginations whiche either our sprites maye conceiue or others woulde propone to vs as Sathan did to Iesus Christe whom he wente aboute to induce to throwe him selfe headlong vnder a vaine truste to be succoured by the Omnipotency of God. And likewise the Monarchians who vnder the colour and pretence of Gods almightinesse which thei gathered of other myracles would proue establish their Heresies and take away the personal distinction which is betwéene the Father and the Sonne saying that God being almighty might by that reason make him selfe Father and Sonne altogether There be also Anabaptistes in these later times who vnder a vaine assurance they repose in Gods almightinesse which hope that he can nourish them as he did the byrdes will not incline to trauel Many other such like or greater inconueniences may happen to al those who hauing such wandring dispersed thoughts of the omnipotency of God would not restraine nor refer them to his wil which we see is also happened to the Doctors who seeking to measure Gods almightinesse rather by their imaginations thaÌ„ by his wil woord are as S. Paule saith become vaine in their discourse their harts forsaken of vnderstanding are fillrd with darkenesse And as in seeking to behold the maiesty of God without the limits boundes which he hath appointed in his word they are becom ouerwhelmed engulphed in his glory so thei are also fallen into the which thei touched in their own resolution that bicause they haue not taken Goddes Woorde for theire guide nor followed the Pathes and footesteppes of his Holy Spirite they are swarued from Faythe whiche contrary to the opinion of the Doctours is not defaced nor reuersed by the consideration of creatures woorkes of God which are as mirrours of his glory and Diuinitie if not that by the same wée might be turned from the promisses of God by the which wée are assured of his wil and his Omnipotencie which doothe warrante and assure to vs the effectes and accomplishmentes of this his Holy will which maye be clearely seene and obserued in those that were sent by Moyses to espie and knowe the Lande of the Chananites twoo of the which Iosua and Caleb could neuer be drawne from the truste they had put in their God bicause that turning their mindes from the consideration of all such thinges as mighte kindle doubte in them as from the strength and munition of Townes the numbers force weapons and experience of the Countrie men they fixed their mindes vpon the onely remembraunce and contemplation of the promisses whiche God had made them where of the contrary others forgetting the saide promisses and considering nothing but what they sawe afore their eies fell and made to fal all the people with them into this cursed and damnable infidelitie for the which they were so graeeuously punished in the Deserte and shut out of the entry and ioy promised by God to their Auncestours And in the example of Abraham whose Faithe remained firme and stable chiefly by the consideration of the promise and will of God as S. Paule saith so that the consideration of Goddes Omnipotencie comes after to susteine and accompany that which he had of the promisse By these examples wée may sée what daunger there is to departe and fall from neuer so litle the woorde of God by which wee are guided to the knowledge of his Will and by the knowledge of his Will wée are drawne to the consideration and iudgemente wee oughte to haue of his Omnipotencie For wante whereof the Doctoures are fallen into the errours and madde fansies proponed to vs in their laste resolution that the Body of Iesus Christe at one instant may be in diuers places which as it is contrary to the faith we ought to haue and holde constantly of the wisdome prouidence and eternall truthe of God So likewise it is against the faith we ought to haue of the humanitie of our lord Neither doth that serue any thing to proue and coÌ„firme their error which they alleage chiefly of S. Ierome againste Vigilantius where his speeche importes no other matter than that the soules of the holy ones are inclosed in a certaine prisone as Vigilantius dreamed but doe accompanie the Lambe where so euer he goeth neither that which they alleage of S. Augustine in his Booke of the care we ought to haue of the deade séeing in the same Booke he himselfe confesseth that he standes doubtfull of that which the Doctoures assure and muche lesse the three authorities alleaged of S. Iohn Chrysostome S. Ambrose and S. Augustine whose sentences ought to be vnderstande of the sacrament and not of the thing signified by the sacrament as we hope to vnfolde at large in the next conference We maruel much that the Doctors draw backe thus and will not enter but vnwillingly into the conference of their Masse to defende it as also of the supper celebrated in the reformed Churches to impugne it For seeing they holde it as the principall grounde of their Religion and propone it as a meane to saluation to all the world therefore in respecte not to be found seducers or light to beléeue or teach a thing which is not certaine nor well assured they ought to stand continually furnished with reasons bothe to proue and defend readily that which they beleeue and teache and also to conuince suche as would denie it But héere the worlde may discerne what is a wicked conscience who being feareful eschâ—es alwayes the light combate it is long since we haue vrged them with importunities to enter into conference of these two pointes and the rather to induce them to it we haue alleaged that it was the ende and purpose why the assembly was erected and that the Dutchesse of Buyllon in whose respect the companie mette had required it publikely once or twice like as also for oure partes we had often proâ—essed not to come thither in other regarde than to satisfie the Duchesse in that point and not to be examined by the Doctors as they falsly pretende For we delite not to go to such Doctors to be examined to be priests as also to be taught in pointes of religion and to knowe the truthe we would not choose suche maisters nor haunte their schooles to suche ende Notwithstanding all which declarations repeated so often by vs yet the Doctoures haue alwayes hitherto deferred to conferre of the sayde pointes exspecting as is most likely some occasion to dissolue and ende the said conference afore there be any beginning to speake of it albeit if they were ledde with any zeale to Gods honoure and the edifying of his churche they oughte to enforce by al their meanes that these two pointes mighte be wholy reuealed and resolued whether
persuaderi As also Tertullian Duritia haeretica vincenda est non suadenda And touching the iniuries which the ministers multiplie in this behalf against vs in that they folowe all the aduersaries to the truthe and giue good testimonie what disquiet of minde suche kinde of people suffer when their errors are laid afore them of whom such is our pitie that we pray God to restore them to their good minde as knowing that the Conuersion of an heretike is one of the things reserued to the omnipotencie of God. The ministers labor in vaine to produce much Gréeke to shew that penetrare coelos signifieth not to passe the Heauens without opening bicause this verbe Dierchestai is found to passe where is opening But we neuer said that penetrare or Dierchestai can not be applied to places opened or that in opening them they were pierced thorow For we know in all Authors that doth encounter We said that as the ministers would inferre the Reall opening of the heauen by the rigor and propretie of the verbe aperire so might they alleage that the heauens were shutte in the Ascention of Iesus Christe by the verbes Dierchestai and penetrare signifying with rigor to pierce or passe thorowe without that of it selfe it importe opening notwithstanding it may be vsed where is a place open But by the rigour of their signification opening can not be necessarily inferred if by some woorde from else where or euident condition of the thing that is pierced the opening be not shewed as it is in the textes alleaged by the ministers In the Ascention these Verbes Dierchestai and penetrare be vsed as to pierce neither is any woord added which imports diuision of the heauens whose condition nor the estate of the glorified bodie of Iesus Christe doe not enforce any necessary vnderstanding of opening to be made to suffer the saide body of Christe to enter Therfore we argued of the rigor of penetrare as the ministers did of the wresting of aperwe which is founde in the scripture and not to signifie a Reall opening of the heauens more often than penetrare is red in the Scripture to signifie diuision or actuall seperation of the heauens for eperire coelos is founde very often for spirituall and imaginatiue opening and penetrare coelos is scarcely euer taken for actuall diuision of the Heauens And therfore better was our reason to conclude by the rigor of the verbe Dierchestai or penetrare to passe without actual diuision of the heauens than the ministers to infer the opening of the same by wresting the Verbe aperire In the last Article the ministers obiecte to vs to haue passed ouer certaine places of scripture by which appeares that Faithe is a woorke of God whereunto we say that in some of our wrytings we haue expresly confessed that Faithe in that it is a gifte of God is a woorke of god But in that he that beléeues woorkes with God in beléeuing for Nemo credit nisi volens it is a humaine worke and it is not repugnāt one selfe woorke for diuers considerations to be a woorke of God and a woorke of man And where they bring the Auncientes to haue sayde if not in propretermes yet in like that God can not bring to passe that a body be in diuers places that is false for they neuer either coulde or can shewe it as also they gainesay their laste wryting for bringing the reason why the Auncientes saide it not in expresse termes they alleaged it was bicause they neuer thoughte suche absurditie coulde fall into the braine of man which reason oughte to take place as well to speake it in termes like as in expresse termes séeing it is one selfe thing signified as wel by the one as by the other For the rest the ministers neuer Aunswere to the principall whereof they haue bene often warned and eftsoones we doe admonishe them although they terme a thousande times our spéeche matter of repetition it is that we require them to bring scripture to proue that it impugnes the order established in the world the truthe wisdome omnipotencie and immoueable wil of God one body to be in two places which they can not doe but Aunswere according to their custome nothing wherein may be discerned that their Doctrine is not founded vppon Gods woorde but vpon their propre opinion or particulare inspiration which can not be but of Sathan for being contrary to the common consent of the vniuersall Churche it can not be of the holy Ghost And vppon the same are founded also the other Articles of their Religion albeit they disguise and promisse at euery woord the word of God. A short aduertisement of the Doctors vpon the resolution of the Ministers touching the omnipotencie of God. WE maruaile of the maner of spéeche and writing vsed by the Ministers who since the beginning of the conference could neuer endure to pursue conclude one onelye point without entermedling of others which belonged nothing to the matter of the question as maye appeare by the reading of their Actes Wherein afore they set downe their resolution of Gods omnipotencie they heaped together as many Articles as they coulde remember and thrust them one vppon an other withoute occasion and reason Notwithstanding vpon their owne request we had set afore them articles of the Supper yea to the intent that after we had disputed of the almightynesse of God to make present the body and blood of Iesus Christ in the holye Sacrament we might discende by order into the declaration and proofe that suche was Gods wyll and also that he is there But we are not ignorant of the good customes of those of the religion pretended reformed to blow in the eyes of the Christians all the articles of their religion together with the polutions they inuent thereupon all vppon one lyne to the ende nothing be determined but all rest in confusion and that the Serpent runne away when he hath vomited his poyson Besides by the obseruation of their aunswers it is to bée discerned that they neuer rested vpon any certaine and selfe aunswer But to euerye question they haue returned aunswers no lesse diuers than impertinent and sometimes not to be suffered of the which we giue warning to all suche as shall reade the conferences and laying our selues vppon their iudgement beséeche them to haue good regard to the doinges of the Ministers side Moreouer we tell the Ministers that either they may or ought to know that all the sectes of our time bleare the eyes of such as they meane to blinde with the selfe same traine of articles which they haue gathered together in their resolution and that to obtaine audience in the catholike Churche and to bring in theyr errours and heresies vnder the name of Gods glory Of the which they vaunt them selues to be protectors no lesse than the Ministers wherein lyke as notwithstandyng all these they are not to be receiued or allowed in their opinions and conclusions so the Ministers cā not
touching their escapes they are to be conuinced by the simple reading of the bookes Touching the residue of the Ministers resolution containing many iniuries slaunders and wronges against vs we aunswer nothing hauing regarde to the maner of theyr doinges Like as also we consider it should be but paine lost to teache the Ministers who for their instruction esteeme more their particular reuelation than all the doctrine of the vniuersall church and all the Christians together And lastly we pardon them with all our heartes at the wrongs they haue done vs as beyng people estraunged from their full sense and without iudgement which they well declare by the maner of their doing The Doctors obiection touching the Supper against the Aunswer of the Ministers IT appeares sufficiently in the actes of the first dayes arguing why in the beginning of the conferences we touched not the articles of the supper wherein the Ministers do maliciously slaūder vs in saying we refused to enter into the matter of the same as is truly proued as well by our sundry offers made to them to conferre thereof verbally to the ende to aduaunce it with more spéede and so at leysure to set it downe in writing which the Ministers refused as also by our former obiections touching the article of the almightynesse By these we touched the groundes wherupon are builded the errours of the religion pretended reformed against the reall presence of the body and bloud of Iesus Christ in the holy Sacrament The same being to be iustified further in that wée obiect to them certayne argumentes agaynst their Supper the rather to make them enter into it To the whiche eyther they haue aunswered nothing at all or at least so impertinentlye that euen the woordes of their aunswer discouer their disposition to flée the combat As yet they continue by their last writings hiding so farre as they can that which they thinke of the supper notwithstanding they haue bene required to aunswer both to purpose and truth But whether they or wée refused the effect standes to iudge For though they wyll not aunswer yet we wyll not forbeare to aduise them and reueale to the whole world the intollerable errours aswell in the Supper as in all the doctrine of the Ministers Who being asked yet dare not confesse and iustifie what hath bene written by the inuenters of their supper But now to begyn to speake of the supper the Ministers mayntaine it celebrated according to the ordinaunce of Iesus Christ and maner with the Apostels vsed in all the primitiue Churche when she floorished and whylest she remained in her purenesse Whereunto we aunswer with this question howe manye worldes they thinke that the doctrine hath remayned in her purenesse touching the Supper and whether as then the Church stood not as pure in the doctrine of al the other Articles as in this Besides whether since that tyme there was not found any place through the whole worlde where the true doctrine of the supper and the other Articles was retayned and preserued As also in what place and by whom from world to world it was preached and aduaunced In these we desire to be satisfied by the Ministers as importing muche bicause that afore Caluin preferred hys Catechisme there was no memorye in any Region of suche doctrine as he taught neither was the supper celebrated in the maner it is now in the reformed Church And we woulde gladlye relieue the Ministers who in their writinges séeme straungelye passioned that we haue sayde that their Supper differs not from a common Banquet sauing that it is woorse as beyng prophane and polluted But to encounter this they make a great speake of all the action of their sayde Supper and by goodlye accessories carying a forme of all pietie they labour to make it highlye commended couering a goodly nothing betwene two platters And of the contrarye to treade downe and deface the most precious sacrifice of the body and bloud of Iesus Christ in the Masse by tearing in péeces some accessorye of the same as though wée vsed it without reason and signification whiche the Ministers eyther vnderstande not or dissemble not to vnderstande But as thynges ought not to be taken and estéemed by their accessories but according to their value nature and truth so the Ministers haue to foresee that all the sectes standing at this day in all the worlde against the catholike Churche for the matter of the Sacrament vse at least thys brauerie that they do Who if they were asked there is not one of them which would not enforce to proue that their sect approcheth nearer Iesus Christ hys Apostels and the primitiue Churche than the Religion pretended reformed Touching all which we referre our selues to the writinges of the Lutherians Zwinglians Anabaptistes Trinitaries Maister Alasco with other lyke Therefore it is not reasonable by these faire voyces and speeches to preferre the supper of the Ministers afore other sectes with iudgement that it is good holye impoluted and according to gods word but rather to repute it infected and defiled with impietie as couering a dreame in place of truth and giues the accessaries of pietie to impietye and falshoode Neither haue we dispraysed their Supper for the thankes they giue to God or in respect of their confession of sinnes or their preaching if it containe matter of truth or for any other preparatiue But in this haue we named it to be detestable as not containing but common bread and wyne contrary to the ordinaunce of Iesus Christ and yet they attribute vnto it some spirituall effect with other goodly accessaries of pietie the same being a matter of more abominatiō and inuented by Sathan who séekes by suche maner of supper to quenche and abolish the true supper according to the institution of Iesus Christ and rob the faythfull of the fruite and truth of the said true supper in making them giue onely common bread in place of the body and bloud of our sauiour Iesus Christ Here we could recite the wicked accessories as well as they speake of the goodly which are in their supper as the secrete and newe enterprises which are practised vnder colour and shaddowe of the assemblies drawne together at their sayd supper but least the Ministers reproche vs that the Clerke speake of weapons of contributions c. we wyll altogether hold our peace and referre our selues to that which is contenting our selues to deduce certayne causes by the which we maintaine that there is no truth in the sayd Supper according to the institution of Iesus Christ First that in the supper of the Ministers and their lykes there cannot be made any consecration of the matter of the bread wyne which are there proposed and therfore there is not made in the sayd matter anye mutation either before the vse or in the vse or after and by consequence that the bread and wine in that Supper cannot be but common That there is no consecration made in their Supper it
table did not eate nor taste any thing of the meates there serued should he not doe dishonor wrong to him that inuited him had it not bene better for him not to haue come thither euen thus is it of thée For thou art come thou hast song Psalmes with the rest of the people thou hast confessed thy selfe to be of the number of the worthy and not departing from those that are vnwoorthy how then dost thou tary and not participate at the table of the Lord thou sayst I am vnwoorthy I answere thee that euen so arte thou also touching the Communion of Prayers Thirdly the gobbins and tronshons of the Gospels and Pistles the Creede Prayer and other péeces referred to the scripture altogither confused and shaken of pronounced to the people in a tong not vnderstand contrary to the expresse commaundemente of God and without any edifying of the multitude is no other thing than a vaine vsurpation of the name of God against the expresse defence made by the same which ornaments are too narow and short to couer the shame and horror of the Masse Fourthly what execrable abuse is it to say that the Masse serues not only to the liuing but also for the dead to obtaine remission of their sinnes wherin the priestes forgetting neither shame nor blasphemie deuide their ofte into three parts with this visor vppon it that one is for them that be in heauen an other for suche as liue on earth and the thirde serues for the soules that abide in purgatorie But the Sacrament which is not ordained but to confirme the faith of the word stretcheth no further then the ministerie and the ministerie no longer than this life so that if it be so that those that are in heuen such likewise as are fained to be in purgatorie be dead and departed this world we must necessarily conclude that as Gods woorde can not be preached vnto them so also they cannot pertake in the administration of the sacraments and if they be not administred to them they can nothing profite them The ende of the Resolution An Answer to the last Obiections proponed by the Doctoures touching the Supper WE say that there be many things in the sayde Obiections impertinente to the matter of the Question as where they demaund how many worlde 's the Doctrine hath remained pure bothe touching the supper and other articles of religion whereunto we Answer that euen in the time of the Apostles there were heretikes and Antichristes as Ebion Cerinthus Simon Magicien the Samaritanes and others who by their errors and heresies went aboute to shake euen the Apostolical Churches and corrupte the pure Doctrine of the same whome the Apostles resisted valiantly in all possible sorte reuoking and referring alwayes all things to their former institution and foūdations of the pure woord of God as we sée S. Paule did on the behalfe of the Corinthians and Galathians whose Churches albeit he had most well planted and licoured yet they were corrupted in his life time both in manners and doctrine And where the Doctors aske howe long time the puritie of the doctrine and Religion hath perseuered in the Churche of God after the decease of the Apostles as wel touching the Article of the supper as for others we Aunswere that the continuance hath bene euen so long time as Gods woorde hath bene folowed and preached Touching the Obiection of the Doctors folowing blasing the supper celebrated in the Reformed churches as that we shoulde abuse the Communicantes by giuing them no other thing than a nothing betwéene two platters we Aunswere that that blase doth more aptly become them than vs bicause they offer to suche as they summone to their Masses but the Accidents indiuidible waues and only the sighte of formes of breade and wine to féede them withall A litle after they call the sacrifice of their Masse most pretious wherin we cōdiscend with them and say they haue reason so to exalt it with a noble and most precious title bicause of the greate reuenues and riches which this pretious sacrifice brings them which we may say hath bene to them a fléece or mine of Golde more riche and plentifull than euer was that of Iason or all the mines of the Easte as hauing brought the world to beléeue and spetially the founders of Abbaies Priories and other benefices that their sacrifices were auaileable for the redemption remedie and reléefe of their soules Afterwards the Doctors without all shame call the supper of the Lord detestable bicause as they say we offer nothing there but common bread and wine wherunto we Answer that in our supper we offer in déede bread and wine to the people which after the consecration remain in their substance as before but we denie that for al that the said bread and wine are common bicause as hath bene héertofore amplie declared to the Doctors that both the one and the other by the preaching and pronoūcing of the ordinance of God is changed as is said in respecte of the vse but not touching the nature wher the doctors offer to charge vs with monopolides contributions conspiracies secrete practises against the state of our Prince vnder colour pretence of our supper we Answer that that is not to impugne our doctrine but impudently to despite slander vs for such hath ben the faith of the reformed religion as bisides that it hath ben proued with the losse of their bloud life yet the king in his councel by his edict hath declared vs his most faithful well affected subiects but it is not to be maruelled if the doctors heape these slaunders vpon the reformed churches seeing in al times the Christiās haue bene accused of such crimes by the enimies to the truth As appeareth by the Apologetike of Tertullian and S. Augustines Bookes of the Citie of God By the Treatise of S. Cyprian againste Demetrius and by the Booke of Arnobius which he wrote againste the Gentiles Onely we maruell howe the Doctoures are so euill aduised as to alleage the Suppers in the Refourmed Churches to verifie theyr accusatiōs séeing that as they are at this day publikely done euery where in the view and presence of so many as wil beholde them so there is nothing hid nor so hard as euery one if he wil may not easily be informed only it is the zeale great charitie of our masters the Doctors wherein héeretofore they haue protested euen by the Inuocation of the name of God that caries them without shame or likelihoode thus to slaunder vs whose iustice in this case is to Answere for vs bothe afore God and men And to proue and confirme their poynts afore recited the Doctors adde that it appertaines not to all men indifferently to Consecrate the matter of the sacramentes but to suche only as are ordained by imposition of the Romishe Bishops hands wherunto we Aunswer and confesse the first poynte as hauing saide in other places that the