Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
religion_n	church_n	faith_n	teach_v	4,044	5	6.3549	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A81304	The Quaker no Papist, in answer to The Quaker disarm'd. Or, A brief reply and censure of Mr. Thomas Smith's frivolous relation of a dispute held betwixt himself and certain Quakers at Cambridge. By Hen. Denne.	Denne, Henry, 1606 or 7-1660?	1659 (1659)	Wing D1024; Thomason E1000_13; ESTC R207840	18,534	22

we Protestants hold there were no place of Scripture neither clear nor obscure neither in general nor particular proving Purgatory nor any Tradition at all for it in a word let us suppose that God hath not at all revealed it which is the utmost that can be supposed by us yet I think no man can rightly swear with a good Conscience that there is no such matter or that the opinion which asserts such a thing is absolutely false For how many Mysteries and and Things known to God may there be most true in themselves which God never revealed nor happily ever will reveal and which therefore duly considering the matter we can neither swear to be or not to be because we have no sufficient certainty pro or con concerning them This Abjuration therefore or forswearing of Purgatory or any other of the points contained in the Oath and required to be abjured for ought I yet conceive of them is a most rash and temerarious swearing it is a swearing a thing to be false which for ought he knows may be true it is exposing a mans self to evident peril of taking a false oath and thereby of committing a most grievous and heynous sin in the sight of God 9. Another consideration that may be against the oath and reflecting upon all persons as well as Papists is this that a man is required to swear that no power whatsoever can absolve him from this Oath this is couched in these words No power derived from the Pope or Churchof Rome nor ANY OTHER PERSON can absolve me from this Oath For though neither the Pope nor Church of Rome can do it yet to swear that no other person hath power to do it is to swear a thing manifestly false For seeing one lawful Parliament can dissolve and annul what any former Parliament hath enacted yea the self same Parliament can annul those Acts which it self hath made Suppose that either this present or some succeeding Parliament should abolish this Oath and declare it to be no longer of force to oblige any should not all that have taken it be absolved from the obligation of it And is it not clear that whosoever takes it in this form does as much as in him lies forswear and abjure the very priviledges and authority of the Parliament it self which are due to it and inseparable from it by the Fundamental Laws of the Nation Whosoever I say takes this Oath swears as much indeed against the known power of the chief Magistracy of this Nation as against the pretended power of the Pope or Church of Rome For though it should be answered that the Oath expresses power derived from any other person and not from any other persons yet it is as easily replyed that it having said immediately before the Pope or Church of Rome which latter signifies a collection of many together as much as the Parliament does the words any other person may be understood either of any one single person as is the Pope or of many single persons collected and united together as is that of the Church and Parliament So that the meaning is of any other person such as the Pope or Church of Rome is that is either considered separate and alone or joyned with others For in Church and Parliament both the power is derived from every one every one is a Parliament-man and hath Parliament power partially in himself So that whatsoever is voted or done in Parliament may truly enough be said to be derived from a person as being either expresly or virtually the Act and Suffrage of every single person in Parliament Whence follows my inference That to swear that no person whatsoever can absolve me from this Oath is to swear that the Parliament it self cannot do it 10. To be short Suppose some Protestant Native of this Nation should have lived long within the Popes Dominions in Italy with his House and Family and should there have natularized himself and made himself a subject of the Pope and after that returning hither again upon his occasions should at his entrance being pressed to take the Oath refuse it because he thereby swears that the Pope hath no Jurisdiction nor Authority over him in particular which in this particular case is contrary unto truth would it not be ridiculous now to use T. S. his argument against him and pretend he is not a Protestant but a Papist because he refuses the Oath of Abjuration Not to urge that in justice the Oath could not be urged upon him nor any advantage taken against him for refusing it though he were indeed a Papist by reason of the said clause which renders the Oath unlawful for him to take abstracting from Religion because the Pope in this case hath de jure at least Authority over such a person in particular 11. But the Prelatical malice objects yet further that the urging of this Oath of Abjuration is absolutely necessary for the peace of the Nation Papists say they are a people whose principles are incompatible with all Governments and Governours who are not of their own perswasion their Religion teaches them That Faith is not to be kept with Heretiques and they esteem all as such who are not members of their Catholique Church Therefore they ought not to be permitted to grow rich by enjoying and improving their estates as other men but the Oath of Abjuration was well advised in that respect by the Presbyterians the better to finde them out that the Laws might be put in execution against them 12. To this I answer first That this is rather the result of their malice who make the objection They will never be drawn to take notice that Papists universally disown that Tenet which is objected to them as theirs and in charity we are bound to believe the best of others and also to think that they speak true where we cannot prove the contrary as in this case they will I presume hardly be able to do For is not the Imputation proved manifestly to be false by continuall experience of Protestants treating commercing and dealing with Papists as confidently and constantly as with those of their own profession And finde they not as much honest proceeding and credit in them as in their own They will never look upon the just obedience which those Papists subjects of the United Netherlands do pay unto their Superiours the States of those Provinces and the security which that Commonwealth enjoyeth by granting some kinde of liberty to them in the exercise of their Religion But the malice of these objectors is inherent in them Before the Scortish war they urged the same Argument almost against the Presbyterians they were people incompatible with Government and Governours too To this end they proclaimed that Calvinisme was not brought into any Countrey but with the deposition of the then Governours and change or ruine of the Government instancing in Geneva Scotland the Netherlands c. not taking notice of the peaceable

demeanour and obedience which the Duke of Savoy findes from those of Piedmont and others of the same Religion After the Scottish war they urged together with the Presbyterians who were easily enough infected with such leaven the Incompatibility of Anabaptists and other Sectaries as they called them producing to this purpose the story of Munster without taking notice of our peaceable submissions to the State of Holland our present obedience to our Governours at home and our disowning the principles which occasioned those Munster Riots Nor do they while they fall thus upon others take any notice of or endeavour to answer those things which are standing objections against themselves to wit in relation to their rebellion disobedience and Apostacy from the Government of the Church of Rome which in good earnest I think they will never be able to answer upon their own principles that is supposing their Ordination for which they so much contend to be of necessity and of Divine Right and that they had it as most certainly they had from the Church of Rome And if they can they would do very well to give the world and their own party too some satisfaction concerning those Arguments in form against them which are published at the end of the Conference lately held betwixt Mr. Gunning and Mr. Peirson Ministers of the Prelatical party and two Romanists who undertook to prove them Schismaticks The Conference is publick and the not answering to what is objected therein against them is by some counted a prejudice to their cause and a scandal equal to that which Mr. Gunning gives by his like silence to what hath been long since printed against him in relation to the publick Conference at Clements Church without Temple-Bar 13. Secondly I answer to the main objection if Papists are therefore onely punished because of the forementioned doctrine seeing it cannot with any truth be charged upon the Papists in general but onely upon some few if any why do we torment their consciences by requiring them to abjure so many other opinions which are neither relative to this that is objected nor such as the maintaining of them can be dangerous to the State what is the Doctrine of Transubstantiation and Worshipping of the Sacrament which they verily believe is the Body and whole Person of Christ of Merits of Purgatory above mentioned c. in relation to Government May not a man be a good Subject because he thinks that Christ is in the Sacrament and that Good Works merit salvation who will maintain it but onely those whose passion hath wholly blinded their judgement and their interest extinguish't all considerations of equity and charity towards their suffering and oppressed Brethren So that if the present proceeding against them be not a meer persecution and a meer State trick to get money from these people whose condition verily is such as every one may abuse them even in the streets without offence to others nay with satisfaction enough unto many some better way might be found to try the Papists fidelity to the State then an Oath of Abjuration unless we be so wise as to think we are then most secure of mens fidelity when we have forced them to abjure their religion and conscience towards God Let there be an Oath of Abjuration framed wherein Papists shall be required onely to abjure that Doctrine imputed to them viz. That Faith is not to be kept with Hereticks or the like and then if any refuse such an Oath let them be dealt with as men not fit to live in a Commonwealth let them be banished But for such as give security of themselves by taking such an Oath let us not be such publick Denyers and Contradictors of our own declared Principles whereby we disclaim and profess against all persecution for Conscience as to continue Sequestrations or to inflict any other Mulcts and Penalties upon these men of whose honesty and conscience I conceive we may be reasonably well assured by their long and so patient enduring all manner of prejudice almost and hard dealing rather then they would renounce their conscience towards God or make profession of any thing pertaining to Religion contrary to the light that is in them and which doubtless they believe to be of God No doubt those who framed the Oath of Abjuration took it to be a very effectual means to impoverish Papists and by keeping them low to disable them from working harm against the Common-wealth But what is policy when contrary to Religion if it be iniquity injustice and oppression to treat men so without cause or without their particular demerit and fault it is not any feigned and imaginary reason or necessity of State that will excuse those who either Act or give consent countenance or Authority to such unchristian Actings We should rather remember what the Apostle tells us Rom. 3.8 That such who say Let us do evil that good may come their damnation is just Neither can I see any such great reason of fear and danger from them For having once abjured what is objected to them as onely dangerous in their Religion and sworn obedience to the present Government and Governours they have given us some evidence already that they will perform those oaths and that they cannot be absolved from them by the scruple which they have and the much difficulty that they make against the Oath of Abjuration which certainly they would swallow if they had no conscience at all of an oath or did believe that the Pope or any other had power to allow them to commit a perjury or to absolve them from their lawfull Oaths The Lord send us who preach and declare against persecution to follow that equall and golden rule of our Lord Jesus Christ Whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you do that unto them also for this is the Law and the Prophets Matth. 7.12 14. I shall take notice of one onely Objection more and then leave our Disputant and Scholar T. S. to go turn over his Arabique and other manuscripts in St. Johns Colledge Library It is to say something concerning those common Bruits which are raised against Popish Priests and Jesuits as if they did secretly insinuate themselves into the Congregations of different professions in Religion that are now amongst us covering themselves sometimes under one form and sometimes under another sometimes seeming Anabaptists sometimes Presbyterians sometimes Independents sometimes Quakers Seekers Antiscripturists what not all to carry on their design of working divisions and confusions amongst us both in Church and Commonwealth that so in time they may bring both to ruine and upon the ruines build their own Babel again that is introduce and establish their own Religion and Government over us I answer It cannot be denied but that such reports are spread but does it follow therefore that they are true It ought rather to be examined by whom they are spread and to what ends Before the Government that now is was

established and Liberty of Conscience either owned or at least publiquely countenanced and favoured by the State I do not remember that any such reports were But assoon as the Prelatists saw themselves quite unhorst and the Presbyterians found that they were not like to get up into the saddle then presently our Councels and Armies and all were transformed into masqued Jesuits and Priests and ever since the tale has held currant to the great dishonour of the State and scandal of the whole Government both Military and Civil who if they had not been extreamly patient towards a froward people would have made some of the spreaders of those reports to have made better proof of them then I am sure they ever yet did or I believe ever will be able to do For I ask was there ever any such thing duly proved was there ever any Jesuit or Priest taken under such masque or disguize There was an idle fellow one Ramsey many years since brought from New-Castle upon a slight suspicion they that sent the information why did they not prosecute the business what hinder'd them from making a full discovery of that pretended and most villanous Imposture if it had been true They had him here many years in prison why did they not procure his further examination and trial Did any man hinder them They are challenged to it let them declare the truth but let any man of honesty and conscience mark the proceedings of these men I mean the authours and spreaders of these stories All the while they had him in prison they were as silent and mute as fishes there was not a word spoken of Ramsey As soon as they understand that the man after a long imprisonment upon bare information and suspicion of I know not what had procured his liberty out comes a fresh information against him by Prynne that he was got to Cambridge and was so bold there as to offer Dispute or Conference with the Hebrew Professour and to profess himself Body and Soul for the Romane Church Truly how far they of the Roman Church think themselves concern'd in what this fellow professes I know not but certainly that Book-maker Prynne's proceeding against him is just as honest as if having my neighbour face to face I should not dare to speak a word against him but as soon as his back were turn'd or that I knew he were far enough for making me an answer I should call him Thief and Felon and all the naught that can be There is such another story published by him upon an information as he pretends from Bristol but that also was after the party was gone who should be the disguized Priest But truly if such groundless and unproved calumnies can be thought to deserve credit ere it be long no mans innocency will be able to protect him against suspicion and slander The Papists disclaim the Imputation as a most injurious slander suggested against them meerly by the malice of their enemies of the Prelatical and Presbyterian party Insomuch that I for my part do very confidently assure my self that if an oath were tendered to all the Papists in this Nation they would willingly swear that neither they themselves nor any that they know did ever use any such practise or ever thought it lawful to dissemble their Religion in such manner or to make profession for what ends soever to be of any religion save onely their own yea as I have heard some say though they might gain the whole world thereby to be of their Religion or that they might subvert and destroy all the Heresies Sects and false Religions that are in the world by doing so 15. We all know 't is a fallacious way of arguing to proceed a posse ad esse as they speak at Cambridge viz. to prove that a thing really is because it is possiible that it may be and yet no better is the argument of the Papists Adversaries in this case They know the Popish Priests and Jesuites are men that have a zeal for their Religion no less then other and that 't is likely they are not asleep all this while but are using endeavours to bring their designs of gaining Proselytes about whence they conclude that seeing divisions among our selves and dissentions in matters concerning Religion seem to be one great advantage for them that therefore questionless they set themselves by all wayes and means whatsoever to foment and improve them But certainly till the thing be more evident Christian Charity if that be a thing that signifies any thing with us should teach us another lesson and that seeing such manner of dissembling in Religion is a most heynous crime and sin against God and that even according to their principles and professions as well as our own we ought not to charge them with it upon light grounds but rather be inclined to think the contrary and that there is no such matter for that doubtless is the property of true Charity and the sense of the Apostle 1 Cor. 13.7 where he saith Charity Believeth all things Hopeth all things that is if you will hear it Brethren the best of all things Where we do not too too evidently see evil we must believe good Not to urge that if this way of reasoning were good such a thing is conducible to Papists ends therefore Papists practise it why should not the Presbyterian for the like reason accuse the Prelatical men that they secretly insinuate themselves and work underhand the rising of New Sects to weaken thereby the Presbyterian party to disgrace yea and displace too where they can their Ministery to the end that in time way may be made for them to reinduce their Prelatical Government And for the like reason why may not the Independent if he will suspect and accuse the Presbyterians that they send privately their Emissaries amongst them to put new opinions into peoples heads that so in time divisions and dissentions growing they may bring the yoke of their Discipline over the necks of the whole Nation Thus may they mutually accuse one another and frame what suspicions they please against each other if meer conjectures likelyhoods and possibilities might serve the turn In the beginning of the Scottish War what was more rife in the mouths of the Prelatical Clergy then that the Papists concurred under-hand with the Presbyterians and the Presbyterians made use of Papists to advance the Geneva Government against Bishops thereby to destroy Order in their Church and Monarchy in their Government no sooner was that War ended and the Bishops pull'd down but both Prelatist and Presbyterian frame the like accusation against the Anabaptists and other Sectaties as they call them That they concurred and plotted with Papists and Papists with them to hinder Reformation and to introduce Popery under the notion of Liberty of Conscience But the suspicion not so well fastening upon them 't is at length derived upon the Quakers and there it may probably rest and thrive