any of our synods Did any teach that we may with a safe conscience change our Religion as you say Isaac Yes I can the Synod of Charenton in France held about the yeare 1634. expresly saies that for your salvation it s all alike whether you be a Calvinist Lutheran or of any other Congregation of the Reformed because says this Venerable synod they all agree in fundamental points and the Lutherans haue nothing of superstition or Idolatrie in their manner of divin worship Change then as often as you list be a Lutheran be a Presbyterian be an Anabaptist by the mouth of this synod you are assured you 'l never miss to hit right And I pray can any synod of our times haue more authoritie in point of Doctrin than Luther our first Reformer a man extraordinarily raised by God says the synod of Charenton and replenisht with his spirit for to repaire the ruins of his Church He teachs the elevation of the sacrament is Idolatrie yet he did practise iâ— and commanded it should be practised iâ— the Church of Wittemberg to spâ—te thâ— Deuil Carolstadius Giuing you tâ— vnderstand that for just reasons yoâ— may teach now one Religion noâ— an other Zuinglius also whose virtuâ— and Learning is knowen to the work says that God inspired him to preacâ— what Doctrin was suitable to the times which as it often changes you maâ— often change your Doctrin and consider you if it be not therefore thaâ— Christ our lord saies his yoke is sweâ—â— his burden light that is Religioâ— because we can withdraw our Neâ—â— from it as time and just reason requires Ismael Could you giue me any sâ—nod of the Church of England whicâ— deliuers this Doctrin you would gâ— neere hand to convince me for thâ— som particular Doctors should hauâ— taught or practis'd it does not provâ— it to be the Doctrin of the Reformation Isaac And what greater authoritiâ— has a synod of England for to provâ— a Doctrin to be of the Reformation than a synod of France which I have produced Or than Luther and Zuinglius our first Reformers inspired by God to teach vs the puritie of the Ghospel Was it not from Luther and Zuinglius that England receiued the Doctrin of the Reformation and if England be so bold as to say they erred in this what assurance can we haue but that they erred in the rest But since nothing will please you but a synod of England you shall haue not one but many Can there be any synod in England of so great authoritie as our wise and prudent Parliaments Read our Chronicles and you 'l find that in few years time they changed and established different Religions by publick acts of Parliament In Henry the 8. Reigne they voted for Popery and made Acts and Statuts against the Reformation In Edward the 6. time they banisht Popery and voted for Zuinglianism In Queen Mary's they pull'd down this and sett vp Popery again In Queen Elizabeths they decryed this and set vp not Zuinglianism but Protestancy in the midst of her reign they polisht this and added som new perfections to it In King James and succeeding kings times Protestancy is of a different stamp from that of Queen Elizabeths Heare Doue in his Exhort to the English Recusants an 1603. pag. 31. Henry the 8 had his Lyturgie which was very good Edward the 6. condemned it and brought in an other composed by Peter Martir and Bucer in Elizabeths time that was condemned and an otheâ— approued and in the middle of her reign her Lyturgy was also misliked and â— new one introduced we are so wantâ—â— that nothing will coÌ„tent vs but novelties Ismael Doue does not commenâ— this Doctrin for he calls that frequent exchange of Religion Wantonness and loue of noueltie Isaac It s no great matter what he says of it my drift is but to convince you that this is the Doctrin practise of the best Members of our Reformation euen of England and if you be convinc't its the Doctrin of the Reformation you cannot deny but that it is good Doctrin if Doue calls it wantonness S. Paul Ephes 4.22 Coloss 3.9 Rom. 6.6 commends it and exhorts vs to put of the old man with its deeds that 's Popery with its ceremonies and put on the new man that 's the Reformation where ther 's neither Greek nor Iew Circumcision nor Incircumcision Barbarian or Scythian bound or free but Christ is all and in all that 's to say where ther 's no distinction of Protestants or Presbyterians Socinians or Arians it s all one which Religion you profesâ— Ismael But is there no Tenet of Religion which we are all indispensably obliged to hold Isaac Yes there is and no more but one we are bound to have faith in Iesus Christ son of God and Saviour of the world This is the substance of Christian Religion be an Arian be a Presbyterian be a Socinian or what you please be also plung'd to your ears in wickedness of life and manners so you have faith in Jesus Christ son of God and Redeemer of the world and live in charitie you will be a member of the true Church and be saved Do not imagin this is any new Doctrin invented by me search the vulgar sort of our Reformed Brethren you shall get thousands of this opinion in our Realm search the Books of our Learned Drs you shall find it in them also Dr Morton in his much applauded booke dedicated to Queen Elizabeth for which he deserved a Bishoprick says The Arian Curch is to be esteemed a true Church because they hold the true substance of Christian ReligioÌ„ which is faith in Iesus Christ son of God and Redeemer of the world and again in the same place sect 4. whose Title is Heretics are members of the Church he says whosoeuer believes in Iesus Christ tho by wickedness of life or Heresy in Doctrin they should err in Doctrin they are still true Members of the Church Therefore our learnd Fox Doctor Fieldâ— and Illiricus say the Greek Church notwithstanding their error in denying the Procession of the H. Ghost from the son are holy members of the true Church because they have faith in Jesus Christ Ismael Sure you will not say this Doctrin is of the Reformation or can be safely believed Isaac I do admire how you can doubt of it and that it may be believed for what is the Doctrin of the Reformation but as we have said in our Principles Scripture as interpreted by any man of sound judgement in the Church and were not Doctor Morton Fox Field and Illiricus men of sound judgement eminent Learning and Godlines if-therefore this be Scripture as interpreted by them how can you deny it to be the Doctrin of the Reformation Ismael And what Jesus Christ are we obliged to believe in for Jesus Christ as believed by the Arians Socinians Luther and Calvin is far different from Jesus Christ as
in the Catholic Doctrin of the Church of England pag. 103. which is but an exposition of the 39. Articles Our Rule of faith is but Scripture as each Person of sound judgment in the Church vnderstands it Authority is given to the Church and to each person of sound judgment in it to judge in Controversies of faith and this is not the privat judgment of our Church but also of our Brethren of forreign Countries Ismael J confess not only these but many other Drs abet your discourse and the General Vogue of our Reformation is for Scripture as each one vnderstands it but alas you see well that wee can never settle any Religion or Church by such a Rule of faith Isaac You can never settle any but rhis That every man may without leâ— or hinderance believe what he please and why should not this be a good Religion if Scripture as each one vnderstands it be not our Rule of faith if we must be constrained to believe Scripture not as wee vnderstand it but as it is vnderstood by this or that Congregation whâ— difference betwixt vs and Papists They must believe Scripture as interpreted by the Pope and Councilâ— have ever so much light from God be ever so wise and witty you muâ— depose your own judgment aâ— submit to that of the Pope Counciâ— and Popish Church to this pass â— are come also wee must believe tâ— kings supremacie Episcopacy Fâ—gurative presence tho perhaps we dâ— not judge by Scripture it be trâ— Doctrin wee are constrained by Penal laws and Acts of Parliament tâ— believe them as Papists by the Inquisition and why because thâ— Church of England vnderstands bâ— Scripture its true and if you replâ— you do not interpret Scripture sâ— you 'l not be heard you must submiâ— and believe against your judgment and what 's this but plain Popish Tyrany ouer mens consciences Did Luther and Calvin forsake the Pope and Councils for to submit their judgments to any other No but to follow Scripture as each one of them vnderstood it and tho Luther was a man raysed by God and replenisht with his spirit to repair the ruins of the Church yet Calvin did no more submit to him than Luther did to the Pope nor did Zuinglius submit to Calvin but followed his own sense of Scripture nor did Oecolampadius submit to Zuinglius but every one searched the Scripture believed and taught what they thought to be true and thus we became a Reformation of Popery if therefore we will continue a Reformation and walk by the spirit of our first blessed Reformers wee must not be constrained to believe any mans sense of Scripture we must believe whateuer we think to be true and have no other Rule of faith but Scripture as each one vnderstands it Ismael And what then what do you inferr from this discourse Isaac This consequence that wheras no true Child of the Reformation be he of what Congregation you will can justly deny our Rule of faith to be Scripture as any Person of sound judgment interprets it it follows vnauoidably that the Doctrin of the Reformation is Whatever any Person of sound judgment interprets to be the true sense of Scripture and whatever Luther Calvin Beza or any other of sound judgment in the Reformation since its first ryse vntill this day taught to be the true sense of Scripture is to be called and esteemed the Doctrin of the Reformation tho to others of this or that Congregation it may seem to be wicked and scandalous Doctrin And now let me answer to an objection you made against this Principle in our entrance to this discourse you objected that many Papish Drs and Casuists delivered scandalous and base Doctrins which the Papists will not admit to be the Doctrin of their Church tho deliverd by Papish Drs and thence you pretended that the particular sentiments of privat Drs of the Reformation are not to be called the Doctrin of our Church But be pleased to observe the difference betwixt Popery and our Reformation the Rule of faith in Popery is Scripture as interpreted by the Pope and Council or their Church they will admit no other consequently no Doctrin is to be called Popery but what is judged by the Pope and his Church or Council to be the sense of Scripture and if any Dr or Universitie holds any sense contrary to theirs it is to be called the Doctrin of that particular person and not the Doctrin of the Popish Church because their Rule of faith is not Scripture as interpreted by any Person of sound judgment but as interpreted by their Pope and Council But wheras our Rule of faith in the Reformation is Scripture as each person of sound judgment interprets it whatever Doctrin or sense is said by any man to be of Scripture is justly to be called the Doctrin of the Reformation for example Melancton a man of sound judgment great learning and of an vpright conscience taught Bigamy to be the Doctrin of scripture Beza taught the Lords supper might be administer'd in any kind of victuals as well as in bread and wine Calvin taught that Christ despaired on the Cross and suffered the pains of hell after his death why then let all the Bishops and Universities of England condemn this Doctrin let all the Synods of France and Germany decry it the Doctrin will be still of the Reformation because its Scripture as interpreted by men of sound judgment Ismael The heate of your discourse has tyred you and my memorie iâ— sufficiently loaden with what yoâ— have said let me digest it in my privat retirement and wee will meeâ— again Isaac Content carrie with yoâ— these three points which I have proved convincingly first our Rule of faith is Scripture not as interpreted by this or that but by anâ— man of sound judgment secondly iâ— follows hence that the Doctrin of thâ— Reformation must be and ought to be called whatever any man of sound judgment saies is the sense of scripture thirdly it follows wee may change Religions as often as wee please III. DIALOGUE ISMAEL I remember well the summary of your last discourse given me in three points and I find the second to be absurd and repugnant to reason you 'l neuer perswade it tho you have pleaded for it with great energy what if a silly Woman Cobler or other tradesman reade Scripture and giue their sense of it that forsooth must be called the Doctrin of the Reformation and it shall be lawfull for them to believe it against the Doctrin of the whole Church Isaac Do not limit Gods infinit goodness by measuring his mercies towards his Creatures with your narrow apprehensions take notice he saies he has chosen the weake and contemptible of the world for to confound the strong ones I confess vnto you Father that you have hid thesâ— things from the wise and prudent and hast revealed them to the little ones And therefore he choosed poore simple
king himself nor any other did doubt of their Right and now most of our Congregations do absolutly deny any Right in our Clergy to those Rents because they are no Clergy yet none will be so bold as to accuse Henry the VIII of sacriledge for hauing taken the Church Liuings from them for to put them to better vse And why should wee dare say our king would commit any for depriving our Clergy of those Rents believe he can lawfully do it or believe he can not you 'l be still a good Child of the Reformation Believe what you please Ismael This is a ticklish point let 's leaue it to the consideration of our wise and prudent Parliament and be pleased to answer to my doubt how can wee live in peace and tranquillitie in Religion if our Rule of faith be Scripture as each one vnderstands it I remember a discourse started in the house of Lords not many yeares agon by his Grace the Duke of Buckingam he desired to know what was it to be a Protestant wherin did Protestancy properly consist the Bishops who were present looked one vpon an other and whether they feared the difficultie of the question or that for modesty's sake each expected to hear an other speake firstâ— they stood sylent for a whyle at last the yce was broken by one others followed but hardly any two agreed and all that the Duke could gather out of their several answers was that our Rule of faith was Scripture as each one vndestood it and Protestancy nothing but Scripture as interpreted by the Parliament and Church of England whervpon he concluded Wee are these hundred yeares very busy for to settle Religion and for ought I perceive wee are as vnsettled now as at the beginning And truly he had great reason for Religion and faith is nothing else but that sense of Scripture which each Person of sound judgment vnderstands and as it 's impossible wee should all jump and agree in one sense and meaning of the text so its impossible wee shall euer be settled and agree in Religion Isaac The reason of our vnsettlement hitherto and at present is the violent efforts what by persecutions Acts of Parliaments and other oppressions what by Invectives intrigues and cabals of the Church of England to draw all to be Protestants of the Presbyterians to make vs deny Episcopacy and of each other Congregation to force vs to their respective Tenets and whylst this constraint and severity is vsed against mens consciences it s in vain to expect peace or settlement in our Reformed Church but let vs follow our Rule of faith let cach one believe as in his conscience he best vnderstands Scripture let vs all believe what wee please and be permitted so to do and wee shall without doubt enjoy perfect peace and Tranquillity believe you Figurative Presence if you will let the Lutheran believe his Real Presence if he likes it and let me believe no Presence at all if I judge ther 's none why will not you permit me to follow that Rule of faith which the whole Reformation euen the Church of England gives me in her 39. Articles Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it To say wee can neuer have settlement in Religion whylst this arbitrary interpretation of Scripture is permitted is to speake like a Papist this the Pope and Papists said to our first blessed Reformers and the Popish Church saies this day to vs that wee ought to submit our judgments to the Church and Councils that wee ought not to believe what sense wee think to be true but what the Pope and Councils propose vnto vs and if Luther and our other Reformers did not do ill in follwing their own sense and interpretation of Scripture against all the world why do you blame me or any other for following their example Ismael When you speake of our Reformation and Congregations I heare you reckon the Arians Socinians and Antitrinitarians among them sure you do not belieue they or such like ancient condemned hereticks were of the Reformation for wee Protestants do believe the Mystery of the Trinity against them and will never own them to be our Brethren Isaac And do not you believe Episcopacy against the Presbyterians som Canonical Books against the Lutherans Supremacy against the Quakers and Infants Baptism against the Anabaptists and yet you own them as your Brethren and godly Congregations of the Reformation or if you will deny them they will also scorn you and say they are more of the Reformation than you are and why will not you own the Arians c. as your Brethren tho you believe the Trinitie against them you say they are old condemn'd Heretiks and does this language becom a Child of the Reformed Church by whom were they condemn'd was it not by the Popish Church which also condemns vs and saies wee are as much Hereticks as they and as wee ought not to be so called and judge the Pope and Councils sentence against vs to be bold vncharitable and injust so wee must say of the Arians Pelagians and others condemn'd by them You saie Protestants will never own them to be their Brethren God forbid the Protestant Church should be so vncharitable to their fellow Christians and so injust to themselves B. Morton as I cited in my first Dialogue as learned a man aâ— the Church of England bred saies the Arian Church is a true Church and will say no less of the others but what need wee the testimonie of any for what reason so convincingly proves They who walk by one and the same Rule of faith are of one and the same Religion therefore Lutherans Protestants Presbyterians and Independents do esteem themselves to be of the same faith and Religion because they all have the same Rule which is Scripture â— each Congregation vnderstands it also notwithstanding the difference and varietie of Congregations in Popery they hold all but one faith as they say because they have alâ— but one Rule of their beliefe whicâ— is their infallible Pope and Church but it 's evident that those which yoâ— call Ancient condemned Hereticks have one and the same Rule of faith with our Reformation for ours is Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it without any obligation of holding the sense of it delivered by Pope Church Councils or any other therefore our first blessed Reformers did not care what sense of it the Church or Pope did hold when they began to preach the purity of the Ghospel but each of them interpreted it as he thought fit in the Lord and so purged the Church of many Errors This is the very self same Rule of faith which Arians Pelagians Nestorians and others peremptorily condemned by Rome as Hereticks did follow and walk by each of them read and interpreted Scripture preached and believed what sense of it they tought to be true tho they knew it was against the Doctrin of the Church looking on
Scripture alone as their Rule of faith without any regard of the Pope Church Councils or Fathers The Church of Rome proud and impatient of any opposition condemned them as Hereticks for not submitting their judgments to her for takeing Scripture as they vnderstood it and not as the Church and Councils vnderstood it for their Rule of faith and if this be a crime wee are as guiltie as they wee are equally nocent or innocent wee are both Hereticks or none is wee are therefore concern'd in their honor and ought to defend the integrity of their procedure against the Common enemy which is the Popeâ— they were Reformers of the Church in their times as wee are in ours and wheras thy have the same Rulâ— of faith so they have the same Religion with the Reformation Ismael Then you will say Ariâ—nism is the Doctrin of the Reformâ—tion and wee may lawfully believe iâ— Isaac I say God's Unitie in Nature and Trinity in Persons is thâ— Doctrin of the Reformation becausâ— the Protestant Lutheran and Hâ—gonot Church judge by Scripture iâ— is true and if you judge also bâ— Scripture it s the true Doctrin yoâ— may believe it I say also if yoâ— judge by Scripture this Mystery is not true you may safely deny it according the Principles of the Reformation and be still as good a member of the Reformed Church as they who believe it for whoeuer believes what he judges by Scripture to be true is a true Reformed and that the denyal of the Trinitie is as much the Doctrin of the Reformation as the belief of it it appears not only because it was the Doctrin of the Arians who as I proved are truly of the Reformed Church but because it was taught by the greatest Ligths of our Church Calvin saies the text My Father is greater than I must be vnderstood of Christ not only as he is Man but also as he is God And that the Council of Nice did abuse the text My Father and I are one for to prove the Vnity of both in Nature wheras it only signifies their Vnity by conformity of Will Again he saies Epist 2. ad Polon in tract Theol. pag. 796. That prayer Holy Trinity one God have mercy of vs is barbarous and does not please me And ads The son has his own substance distinct from the Father His Disciple Danaeus saies it s a foolish insipid prayer and our great Apostle Luther who as Fox witnesseth was the Chariot and conductor of Israel and a man extraordinarily raised and replenisht with Gods spirit to teach the purity of the Ghospel caused that prayer to be blotted out of the Litanies That word Trinity saies he sounds coldly my soule hates that word Homousion and the Arian did well in not admitting it Lastly Ochinus that great Oracle of England impugns this Mysterie with a strong discourse Wee are not obliged to believe saies he more than the Saints of the Ancient Testament otherwise our condition would be worse than theirs but they were not obliged to believe this Mystery therefore we are not obliged Examin I pray the works of these eminent Drs. where I quote them consider if they be not not only men of sound judgment but men extraordinarily raised by God saies the Synod of Charenton the chariots and conductors of Israel saies Fox men to be reverenc'd after Christ saies our Dr Powel and Apostolical Oracles sent to teach vs the purity of the Ghospell and conclude it s an vndeniable Veritie that this is the Doctrin of the Reformation wheras it's Scripture as interpreted by such men O! but England France and Scotland believes this Mysterie well and what then that proves that the Mysterie is also the Doctrin of the Reformation because whateuer any Man of sound judgment thinks to be Scripture is its Doctrin but is England or France alone the whole Reformation are not Luther Caluin Danaeus Ochinus as well of the Reformation and men of as sound judgment as they since therefore they vnderstand by Scripture ther 's no Trinitie it s the Doctrin of the Reformation also that ther 's none believe it or deny it which you like best and you 'l be still of the Reformed Church Ismael By the Principle you run vpon you may say any blasphemy is the Doctrin of the Reformation for ther 's hardly any so execrable but som Dr of ours has delivered and taught it Isaac The Principle I run vpon is this Scripture as each Person of sound judgment interprets it is our Rule of faith judge you if that be not a good Principle in our Reformed Church wheras this is the Rule of faith given vs by the 39. Articles and generally by all our Drs as I proved in my first Dialogue this being our Rule of faith and Reformed Doctrin its evident that whatever Doctrin is judged by any Person of sound judgment to be contained in Scripture is the Doctrin of our Reformation som Persons of sound judgement say the Real Presence is expressed by Scripture this therefore is the Doctrin of the Reformation others say only Figurative Presence is taught in Scripture this also is the Doctrin of the Reformation som vnderstand by Scripture there is a Mysterie of the blessed Trinitie this therefore is the Doctrin of the Reformation others vnderstand ther 's no such Mysterie this also is the Doctrin of the Reformation so that whether you believe or deny this or any other Tenet controverted you 'l still hold the Doctrin of the Reformation Ismael Calvin saies Christ prai'd vnaduisedly the Eve of his Passion that he vttered words wherof he was afterward sorry that in his passion he was so troubled of all sides that ouerwhelm'd with desperation he desisted from invoking God which was to renunce all hopes of salvation And saies he if you object us absurd and scandalous to affirm Christ despaired I answer this desperation proceeded from him as he was man not as he was God And this is not only the Doctrin of Calvin but of Brentius Marlotus Jacobus Minister quoted by Bilson and of Beza will you say this is the Doctrin of the Reformation or that wee can without scruple believe it Also Calvin saies That Châ—ist's corporal death was not sufficient for to redeem vs but that after hauing despaired on the Cross he suffered the death of his soule that 's to say that his soule after his corporal death suffered the pains of the damn'd in hell And saies he in the same place they are but ignorant doltish brutish men who will deny it Luther also teachs the same Doctrin As he suffered with exceeding pains the death of the Body so it seems he suffered afterward the death of his soule in hell Epinus a learned Lutheran saies Christ descended into hell for thee and suffered not only corporal death but the death and fire of hell Mr. Fulk and Parkins avow this is also the express Doctrin
assured means for to know what sense of it he would have vs believe Ismael And what Religion shall J profess if J lay Scripture asyde Isaac The same which now you have by Scripture that 's to say whatever you judge to be the true Worship of God be sure to profess a reverence for Scripture and seem to believe its the Word of God least you may scandalize weake Brethren pretend allwaies that your sentiments are grounded vpon the Text but betwixt you and God believe whatever you think to be true worship God as you-judge he is to be worshipt and that 's the way to liue in peace do you think but that those Noble Spirits which they call the Wits of England have a good Religion in publick they speake reverently of the Bible but we know what they have and do declare in their privat discourses that it s but a Romance or meer fiction Do you think but that there was a Religion in England before it saw Gregori's Emissaries Austin and his Monks what need therefore of a Bible for to have Religion Were not the Swinfeldians a religious Congregation and of the Reformation to yet they cared not for Scripture but grounded their belief vpon Gods inspiration and inward speech to the heart Ismael If I were not well acquainted with you and had not very convincing proofes and signal testimonies of your pietie solid Religiosity and Christianity I would judge you by this last peece of your discourse to be an impious Atheist or Pagan and J wonder that so good a Christian as I know you to be should speake so irrevently of the Bible and so much in commendation of Paganism as you do There was indeed a Religion in England before they knew what Scripture was but that Religion was Paganism which Austin and his Companions happily banisht from our Land Isaac Happily do you call an exchange of Paganism for Popery introduced by Austin a Happiness is it not generally believed in our Reformation and most strongly proved of late by that incomparable Wit and Pen-man Doctor Stillingfleet that Popery has as much of Idolatry as Paganism our land therefore had in Paganism as good a Religion as it received by Austin in Popery does not this our noble Champion and most of the Scribes of the Church of England teach that Popery is a saving Religion that we may be saued in the Church of Rome if Popery not withstanding it be Idolatrie as they say be a saving Religion how can they deny but that Paganism is also a saving Religion what need had our Forefathers therefore to abandon Paganism why was it not left in the land Ismael Whatever may be said of Popery it cannot be denied but that Christianity is better than Paganism the expulsion therefore of Paganism by Austin was a Happiness because by it Christianity was introduced and establisht in our Kingdom Isaac Alas Ismael if England had bin as well informed of the merit of Paganism when first Christianity was preached it had never exchanged the one for the other Ismael What not Paganism which adored a Multitude of Gods for Christianity which adores but one Not Paganism which adored Iupiter Saturn Venus c. who were Deuils and Evil Spirits or wicked Men who caused themselves to be adored for Christianity which adores the onely true immortal and eternal Deytie Isaac You speake with the vulgar sort and believe as you have bin instructed by your Ancestors I confess the Apostles and Ancient Doctors of Christianity do teach that the Gods of the Gentils were Deuils or Euil Spirits I confess also all the Christian World since the first preaching of the Ghospell was so perswaded grounded vpon Scripture which in several places saies the Gods of the Gentils were Deuds grounded vpon the Doctrin of the Apostles and their Successors the Fathers of the Church and the World being perswaded by the Apostles by the Doctors Fathers and Preachers of Christianity that the Gods which the Pagans adored were but Deuils which by sorceries and marvelous works deceiued mankind and made themselves to be adored as Gods all men were ashamed to adore but Deuils forsooke Paganism and embraced Christianity And all was but a meer Policy of Popery to cast so much dirt and calumnie vpon Paganism and make its Gods but Deuils for to introduce and establish Christianity Dr. Stillingfleet in his Charge of Idolatry against the Chuâ—ch of Rome Pag. 40. and 41. saies plainly that the Pagans are charged with more than they were guilty of page 7. saies that Iupiter adored by the Pagans was so farr from being an Arch-Devil in the opinion of S. Paul that he was the tru God blessed for ever more that the Pagans adored but one suprem and Omnipotent God which they called Jupiter and which they did believe to be neither a Devil nor a Man but a true and the first and chiefest of the Gods and that the rest of the Gods which they adored they looked vpon them as vpon Inferior Deyties and gave them no other adoration but such as the Papists give to their Saints If therefore the Pagans adored the tru God under the name of Jupiter and the other Gods but as inferior Deyties as the Papists do their Saints was it not injustly don by the Ancient Fathers and Teachers of Christianity to have imposed vpon the World and made vs believe the Pagans adored but Devils and Evil Spirits have not the Pagans Ryght and justice on their syde for to pleade before our wyse and religious Parliament that Paganism may be restored or at least tolerated and Iupiter with the rest of the Gods may be adored as formerly they were first because Paganism is no more Jdolatry than Popery as Dr Stillinfleet Mr Burnet and other Reformed Writers prove convincingly secondly because that Paganism having bin banisht out of our Land vpon the fals information of our first Teachers that it was an Adoration of Devils or Evil Spirits and wicked debaucht Men who by counterfeited wonders and cheate gained the Peoples adoration since that Dr Stillingfleet Mr. Burnet and other Reformed Writers will make it out that the Pagans adored no Devils but One tru Omnipotent suprem God blessed evermore which they called Iupiter and the rest of the Gods as inferior Deities as Papists do their Saints and will prove that the Pagans were charged by the first DDrs of Christianity and by all our Ancestors with more than they were guilty of why should not Paganism be restored again to the Land and heard to speake for itsselfe and Dr Stillingfleet and his zealous companions be lycenc't to pleade for them and for holy Iupiter so fouly misrepresented by Antiquity as to be believed an Arch-Devil whom Dr. Stillingfleet will prove to have bin a tru God blessed for ever more Ismael The more J discourse with you the more J am perplexed in mind J bid you a Dieu and do confess J carry with me from your discourse a dislike of what
PAX VOBIS OR GHOSPELL AND LIBERTIE AGAINST ANCIENT AND MODERN PAPISTS BY E.G. PREACHER OF THE WORD DEDICATED TO THE RIGHT HON BLE THE LORD HALYFAX Stand fast in the Libertie wherewith Christ hath made vs free and be not entangl'd again with the yoke of bondage Popery Gal. c. 5. v. 1. Anno 1679. THE PREFACE TO THE CHILDREN OF THE REFORMATION BE not concern'd to know whose hand it is which holds the link but follow the light it gives reach your hand to receive this Treatise which marks the shore where the Ark of our Reformation shatter'd by a deluge of troubles may rest which is a Holy liberty to all and each Person to believe or not believe act or not act as he pleases with a safe conscience acording the Principles of our Reformation We generally lament the convulsions which shake our Church and State through the diversity of opinions professed by our several Congregations som remedies have bin applied to bring vs to Peace and conformity but all have proved ineffectual som of our Drs judge nothing can cure our disease but a General Council or supream Authority to whose sentence we should all submit but this besides that it is Popish to grant any human Power for to oblige our consciences against our jugdments in matters of Religion is but an imaginary remedy for a real Evil for it 's not in the Reformation as in Popery in this there is a supream Authority for to convene the Pastors of diverse Kingdoms to a general Council in our Reformation there is none Popery believes its Councils and Popes infallible and therefore they cannot but acquiesce because an infallible sentence leaves no doubt of the Truth but in the Reformation all Councils and human Authority are fallible and consequently their Decisions may be doubted of and we are never certain of the Truth Others judge the remedy of our disease can be no other but Pills of persecution penal laws Acts of Parliament Ordinances of Synods forcing men to conformity but this has proved not only destructive to the peace of the Church but has shockt the very foundation of our Reformation for if we must believe under severe penalties what the State and Ecclesiastical Authority will have vs believe then scripture must be no more our Rule of faith but the state and Church which tells me what I must believe and we must be deprived of the right and power of interpreting Scripture and believing it in the sense we think it to be the true and yet our whole Reformation is cemented and was first raised vpon this Holy Libertie That every one should reade Scripture interpret it and believe whatever he thought was the true sense of it without any compulsion or constraint for to believe either Church State Universitie or Dr. if wee did not judge by Scripture his Doctrin was true If Prudence had as great a share in our Conduct as Passion wee should regulat our future by the effects of our past actions and if wee will cast an eye back to the transactions of later years we will find this compulsion of Mens Consciences has produced but confusion in our Church and fatal disturbances in our State contrarywise never did our Reformation enjoy more peace shin'd with more lustre and held its course with more happiness than when none was molested for his Profession but euery one had libertie to believe and teach what Doctrin and sense each one thought to be the most conformable to Scripture Confider the infancy of the Reformation when God raised Luther to repair the ruins of the Church how of a suddain it spred it self in Germany France Holland Poland Scotland and England and by what means was it not by takeing away all constraint of mens Consciences vsed then only in the Popish Church our blessed Reformers takeing to themselves and giving to others a Holy libertie for to teach and believe what ever they judged to be the Doctrin and true Sense of Scripture tho it should be against the received opinion of the Councils Church Universities and Drs. look into the Reign of Edward the VI. then did our Reformation florish in England and was miraculously propagated by the Liberty of Martin Bucer Cranmer Ochinus Peter Martyr and others in teaching Calvinism Lutheranism Zuinglianism by Scripture as every one vnderstood it Descend to the reing of Queen Marie then the light of the Ghospel was eclypsed because the flock was again popishly compelled to believe not what they judged by Scripture to be true but what the Pope and Church judged was such Com down a step lower to Queen Elizabeths time then the flock recouering that holy liberty for to believe what each one thought was the Doctrin of Scripture the Reformation gained ground our several Congregations lived peaceably for tho Protestancy was establisht the Religion of the Land others were not oppressed nor their liberty constrained by compulsions step down a degree lower to king James his time the Reformation held its course as prosperoussy as in Queen Elizabeths time because mens consciences were not oppressed all Reformed Brethren had full libertie to believe as they pleased tho Protestancy was the Religion of the King look down a step lower to king Charles the first 's reign his Matie carried with a godly zeale of restraining the diversity of opinions begot by the liberty enjoyed in his Predecessors times would by new Laws and Ordinances force the flock to an Uniformity of Doctrin but our zealous Brethren the Presbyterians impatient of any constraint in affairs of Religion and pleading for the Evangelical Libetty of our Reformation for to believe nothing nor vse any Rites or Ceremonies but as each one judged by Scripture to be convenient they covenanted against his Majestie and Bishops and the storm grew to that height that both Church and state were drown'd almost in the blood of our Reformed Brethren lastly looke vpon our Realm as it is at present the symptom◠of disatisfactions which you may read and hear in the Coffie houses in public and privat conversations the sparkle◠of jealousies which appear in our land the Cabals against our gouernment the animositie of deuided parties the murmur and complaints of all what 's all this but the smoke of that hidden fire of zeale wherwith Protestants would force Presbytherians by penal Laws to profess their Tenets Presbyterians exclaim against Protestancy as against Popery Quakers judge both to be limbs o◠Satan Anabaptists look on all three as Children of Perdition and no Congregation would give libertie for to profess any Tenets but its owne in so much that if you consider all well each of our Cōgregations are as severe Tyrants ouer our judgments and consciences as Popery was and our Reformation comes to be in effect but an exchange of one Italian Pope for many English ones for as in Popery we must submit our judgments to the Pope and Church of Rome or be esteemed putrid rotten members and be shut
meete in any of them the works of Lurher Calvin Beza or any of our own authors if you do not meet som Comedies or Romances if you reade our Modern Writers you shall find their bookes to be stuft with arguments stolen from Stapleton Peron Bellarmin and other Popish Drs. wheras they ought to take their Doctrin from Luther Calvin and our other first Reformers Apostles raised by Gods heavenly Spirit Oracles by whose mouths and pens he delivered the pure and Orthodox Doctrin of the Ghospel heavenly Fontains from which wee ought to drink the Doctrin of the Reformation therefore J have made a particular study for the comfort of my Reader not to profane this Treatise with any quotation of any Popish Writer none but our own Drs. Secondly my Reader will be pleased with this Treatise because J do not oblige him to believe the contents of it if he mislikes any Doctrin couched in this booke let him not believe it if he likes it let him believe it what J pretend is to maintain his libertie for to believe or not believe what he please and that none can say black in his eye for believing whatever he judges to be the sense of Scripture let all others think of it what they will for our Rule of faith as J will prove being Scripture as each Person vnderstands it who can be so bold as to check you for teaching and believing what you vnderstand scripture to say som Doctrins there are in this booke delivered by Luther Calvin Zuinglius Beza and others which our Church of England and som others do call blasphemies and scandalous Tenets and their irreverence and arrogance is run so farr as to condemn those blessed men for teaching such Tenets and say that they swerved from the truth and had their fraileties in so much that many of vs are ashamed to own those great men to have been our Reformers and leaders this is an impiety altogither insupportable it cannot be suffered with patience that such Apostolical men who were vndeniably our first Masters of the Reformation should be so vilified and abused therefore J do prove that ther 's no Doctrin delivered by them but is to be esteemed and called the Doctrin of the Reformation and can be according the Principles of the Reformed Church believed and taught by any Reformed Child for what is our Rule of faith in the Reformation but Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vndestands it consequently what is the Doctrin of the Reformation but what any Person of sound judgment vnderstands to be of Scripture whatever Doctrin therefore Luther Calvin or others judged to be of Scripture how can you deny it to be the Doctrin of the Reformation or blame them for teaching and believing it if you do not like it the most you can in justice do is not to believe it but you cannot justly say it s not the Doctrin of the Reformation because it 's Scripture as vnderstood by Persons of good judgment nor can you in justice blame them or any other for believing it if they like it for must not wee believe what wee judge in our conscience to be the Doctrin of Scripture Lastly my Reader will be pleased with the sincerity and plain dealing of this Treatise as much as wee are all offended by the dissimulation and double dealing of our Modern Writers whose aim and scope in the bookes they give out Seems to be nothing else but to say soâ—what whereby they may be thought tâ— be no Papists and nothing is less founâ— in their Writings than the pure and orthodox Doctrin of the Reformationâ— and what is to be bemoan'd that youâ— hardly see in the houses or hands of thâ— flock the works of Luther Calvin oâ— our other first Reformers they are hiâ— from vs to keep vs in ignorance of thâ— true Reformed Doctrin and wee see buâ— Bramhal Tillinson Taylor Stillingfleet Thorndik and such others whose Doctrin is neither Popery nor of the Reformation but a new compound of both they do so mangle the questions controverted with their scholastical subtilities and distinctions as if they werâ— ashamed to own openly our Tenets and did endeauor to get the opinion oâ— moderat sober men with the Papists by drawing as neer as their Interest caâ— permit them to their Doctrin Ask them if we be obliged to believe the Doctrin and sense of scripture delivered by a general Council our first Reformers resolved roundly that we are not nay Luther saies expresly we are bound to gainsay and work against the Decrees of any Council but our Modern Doctors answer with a pretty Distincction Ther 's a civil obligation quoth one but no obligation in conscience Ther 's an obligation in conscience saies an other provided you do not believe they are infallible you may believe they are infallible objectively or terminatively saies an other but not subjectively they are infallible in fundamental points saies an other but not in inferior Truths An other will come yet and say they are absoluty infallible in all Articles and thus by little and little the Papists gain ground against vs and the lustre of our Reformation is clouded by the cowardliness or insincerity or hiprocisy of our Modern teachers 1. Kings 18. How long halt ye between two opinions if the Lord be God follow him but if Baal then follow him Luther Calvin Beza and our other first Reformers were raised by God to teach vs the purity of the Ghospel let vs not be ashamed to follow their Doctrin to speake preach and believe as they did Therefore J do propose their Doctrin in this Treatise in its native coulours that if you like it you may believe it and if any be so bold as to Say you believe fals or scaâ—dalous Doctrin you must answer iâ— the Doctrin of the Reformation bâ—cause its Scripture as vnderstood bâ— Persons of judgment and the greate Oracles wee had and if you do noâ— like it you may deny it but bewaâ— never to blame or check any other foâ— believing it this is the Holy libertie oâ— the Ghospel and of our Primitive Râ—formation FIRST DIALOGUE ISMAEL I have read your Preface and Principles me thinks you drive to establish a new Religion for that vnlimited libertie which you assert for to belieue or not belieue whatever we please with a safe Conscience is not allowed by any of our Reformed CongregatioÌ„s and it were to be wisht you should rather stick to som one of the Congregations now establisht than to erect a new one for we have but too many already Isaac The Lord forbid I should think or speake otherwise then as becometh a true child of the Reformation If you will oblige me to belieue Scripture as interpreted by the Lutheran Church the like I say of any other Congregation and deny the Tenets of all others what difference betwixt me and a Papist in the electiâ— of my Religion for the Papist's Râ—ligion must be no other but Scriptâ— as
interpreted by the Pope and CoÌ„ciâ— my Religion must be Scripture as intâ—preted by the Lutheran Church aâ— no other my judgment and Conscieâ— therefore is as much constrained as tâ— of the Papist and our separation frâ— Popery will com to be but an exchanâ— of one slavery for another in thâ— our judgments and Consciences wâ— slaves to the Pope and Councils â— this we are slaves to the Lutheâ— Church We became a Reformatâ— by shaking of the yoke of Popâ— from our judgments and leaving thâ— free for to belieue Scripture as wâ— the assistance of Gods spirit each oâ— best vnderstands it and if we â— continue a Reformation we must â— submit again our judgments to aâ— other but retain that blessed liberâ— we recouered for to belieue the Teâ— of any Congregation I confess this â—bertie is not allowed by any one pâ—ticular Congregation as you obserâ— but you must also grant me that â— allowed taken by the whole bodâ— of the Reformation for in this whoâ— body as it comprehends Protestants Lutherans Presbyterians c. one CoÌ„gregation believes what the other denies and in any of them a man may live with a safe Conscience which you will not denie therefore any man has full libertie for to believe or deny with a safe Conscience the Tenets of any Congregation hence it follows and to my grief I speake it that no particular Congregation be it of England France or Germanie has the true spirit of the Reformation in doting so much vpon their particular Tenets as to thinke they cannot be as well denied as believed and in looking vpon them with so passionat eys as to censure check and force others to believe them you shall see by this discourse that the true spirit of the Reformation is not in any one particular Congregation separatly taken from the rest for each particular Congregation constrains as much as it can all people to believe its own Tenets Protestancy would have vs all to be Protestants and would root Lutherans out of the world as well as Popery Lutherans would if they could draw all to their own Nett Presbytery esteems itself to be the best of all would crush Protestancy if it could This then iâ— the spirit of each particular Congregation a Limiting confining spirit to som particular Tenets with an exclusion of all others but looke on the whole Body of our Reformation aâ— it includes all Reformed Congregations distinct from Popery there iâ— a holy extension of spirit and libertie for to be either Lutherans Presbyteriants Protestans and any thing but Popery and whatever any Congregation may say of an other but all vnanimously agree that the spirit of the Lord is in the whole body of the Reformation since therefore that in this whole Body there is a latitude libertie for to profess divers and oppositâ— Tenets and that each Tenet is believed by one and denied by others we must grant that this holy libertie for to believe or deny any Tenets we please is the true spirit of our holy reformation It 's not therefore to be wisht as you do that I should stick to any one particular Congregation or Tenets for such a restriction is meer Popery and your bemoaning the multiplicity of our Congregations is profane and Popish No it s a blessing of the Lord vpon our Reformation for which we shall never sufficiently thank him that we see it divided into so many Godly branches In the house of my father said Christ there are many mansions Joan. 14.2 Ismael By your discourse you seem to allow that we may with a safe conscience change Religions as often as we please and be to day a Protestant to morrow à Lutheran next day a Presbyterian and so run ouer all Isaac I know you will be startl'd at my answer for J am not ignorant that all men apprehend it to be absurd to change run ouer so many religions but truth must be declared though it may seem a scandal to the Iews and a folly to the Gentils It s therefore the Doctrin of the Reformation that we may with a safe conscience be to day Protestanrs to morrow Lutherans in France Hugonots in Hungarie Antitrinitarians in Poland Socinians ad in London of any Religion but Popery Ismael For shame you fouly imposâ— vpon the Reformation ther 's not anâ— Congregation that teachs such à scandalous and absurd Doctrin Isaac By your favor I loue thâ— Reformation as the apple of my eye and will never yield to any in my zealâ— for its honor and doctrin J am so faâ— from imposing upon it that I will evidence your error in denying this to bâ— its Doctrin and it will appear thaâ— whoever will deny it to be very lawful to change Religions as time and occasion requires must renounce the besâ— and fundamental Principles of our Reformation must impiously condemâ— the practise of our first Reformers Ismael How will you make it ouâ— that this Doctrin is grounded vpoâ— the fundamental Principles of our Reformation wheras there is not onâ— Congregation of ours but abhorrs it Isaac Sr. You may well perceive by the tenor of my discours that J am piously and charitably iealous with each particular Congregation thaâ— my drift is to shew that each of them none excepted swerves from and transgresses against the true spirit and solid Principles of the Reformation as wiâ—l further appear in this discours It s vâ—contestedly true that the Rule of faith of the Reformation is Scripture as the humble of heart assisted with the spirit of the Lord vnderstands it for Lutherans will never admit their Rule of faith to be Scripture as interpreted by the Church of England but as interpreted by themselves nor will England admit Scripture to be their Rule of faith as it is interpreted by the Presbyterians but as interpreted by the Church of England so that the Doctrin of each Congregation is but Scripture as interpreted by them and wheras all these Congregations joyntly compose the whole Body of the Reformation and each Congregation is truly a member of the Reformation the Doctrin of the Reformation coms to be Scripture as each Congregation and person of sound judgment in the Reformation saies the Church of England in her 39. Artic. interprets it This being an vncoÌ„trouled truth what man of euer so sound a judgment but may read to day Scripture as interpreted by the Lutheran Church and judge in his conscience that interpretation and Doctrin to be true consequently he may with a safe conscience profess that Religion soon after he may meet Calvins bookes charm'd with the admirable strength of his reasons and glosses vpon Scripture he may judge in his conscience he is to be preferr'd beforre Luther and so may lawfully forsake Lutheranism for Calvinism then again he hits vpon Scripture as interpreted by the Church of England whose Doctrin ravish's him with that decencie of Ceremonies that majesty of her lyturgie that harmonie of her Hieraâ—chie
he is convinc't its better that Calvinism embraces it Then again he reads the works of Arius and convinc't by the energie of his argumentâ— and texts of Scripture produced by him may alter his judgment and become an Arian Wherin can you say does this man transgress against the Doctrin or principles of the Reformation Does he forsake the Reformation because he forsakes Lutheranism for Calvinism No sure for Calvinism is as much of the Reformation as the other Is not Protestancy as much the Doctrin of the Reformation as Presbyterie tho he changes therefore one for the other he still holds the Doctrin of the Reformation Is not the Doctrin of the Reformation Scripture not as Protestants onely or Presbyterians onely interpret it but as any Congregation or man of sound judgment holds it It is therefore evident that according the Doctrin and principles of the Reformation he may with a safe conscience change Religions and be to day of one to morrow of an other vntill he runs all ouer Point me out any Congregation the obstinat Papists excepted who will dare say I cannot live with a safe conscience in any other Congregation but in it self all other Congregations will laugh at it Why then may not I lawfully forsake any Congregation and pass to an other And be in England a Protestant in Germany a Lutheran in Hungarie an Antitrinitarian or Socinian Ismael It 's against the grain of mans reason to believe that we can with a safe conscience change Religions as you say If you be a Protestant and you judge it to be the true Religion you are bound to stick to it neveâ— to change it Isaac If I did discourse with a Papist I would not wonder he should say it against the gâ—ain of mans reason tâ— believe it lawfull but I admire thaâ— a Child of the Reformation be he oâ— what Congregation he will should bâ— so ignorant of his principles as to saâ— a man cannot change Religions wheâ— he please nor do I vndertake to provâ— against the Papist that this is lawfull but I vndertake to prove it lawfull against any Reformed Child or forâ— him to deny the principles of the Râ—formation Is it against reason thâ— a man may read to day Scripture â— the Lutherans interpretation vpon iâ— like it very well that he shoulâ— in this case embrace that Religion Is it against the graine of mans reasoâ— that this same man should next yearâ— afterwards hit vpon Calvins workâ— vpon Scripture and after better consideration think his Doctrin to surpass that of Luther could not he then being obliged to choose the best forsake Lutheranism and stick to Calvinism And is it against mans reason that he in following years may meet other bookes of Arians Socinians c. do the like Have not we many examples of his in our best most renowned Reformers Did not Ochinus that great light says B. Bale in whose presence England was happie reading Scripture judge the Reformation to be better then Popery of a Capuchin fryar became à Reformed after som years reading Scripture he judged Judaism to be better than the Reformation became a Jew Did not Martin Bacer one of our first Reformers of England composers of our lyturgie reading Scripture judge Lutheranism to be better than Popery of a DominicaÌ„ fryar became a Lutheran soon after reading Scripture he judged Zuinglianism to be better than Lutheranism became a Zuinglian not long after he became a Lutheran again as he confesses forsooke Lutheranism the second time and returned again to Zuinglianism as Sklusser says Did not Cranmer one of our firâ—t Reformers also of England composers of the 39. Articles a wise and Religious man profess Popery iâ— Henry the VIII time and compose â— book in defence of Real presence theâ— in Edward the VI. time vpon betteâ— consideration be professed Zuinglianism and writ a book against Real prâ—sence then again in Queen Mary'â— raign being sentenc'd to death he declared for Popery but seeing his recantation could not preserve his life he renounced Popery and dyed a Zuinglian I would tyre your patience iâ— reading myne in relating the number of our prime and most renowneâ— as well first Reformers as Learneâ— Doctors who without any scruple chaÌ„â—ed severall times their Religions noâ— in te Principles of our Reformatioâ— ought they to be blamed for when our Rule of faith is Scripture as witâ— the assistance of Gods spirit we vnderstand it who doubts but we may tâ— day judge sincerely Luther's sense of iâ— to be true to morrow we may reaâ— with more attention judge Ariâ—â— his sense to be true next day that oâ— Calvin so of the rest And do noâ— think but that we have in England many Abettors of this Doctrin alas how many Bishops Deans and rich ParsoÌ„s do we know haue we known who were Zealous Presbyterians and declared enemies of Protestancie in our Gratious Soueraign's exile and no sooner was he restored had Bishopricks and Ecclesiastical dignities to be giuen but they became stiff Protestants Observe the difference Betwixt the Papists and vs if of a Papist you becom of any other Congregation the Popish Church excommunicats you thou art Lookt vpon as an Heretic Apostat a strayd sheep they will not admit you to their communion or lyturgy nay could they well auoid you they would neuer admit you to their Companie and why Because they are fondly perswaded their own is the only true Religion and all others to be synagogues of Satan and if any of vs will become a Papist he must first abiure his former Profession but if of a Protestant you should become a Presbyterian a Lutheran Quaker or of any other of our Societies you are neuer Looked vpon to be a jot the worse for it we are not a Whit scandalized at such changeâ— which we daily see and it is an â— speakable blessing with what accoâ— vnity and charitie you may sâ— at our lyturgie communion the Prâ—testant Presbyterian Anabaptisâ— Socinian and Hugonot all praysiâ— the Lord in one Congregation in oâ— Churches none bid out of the Churcâ— none excommunicated no previoâ— abjuration required of their formâ— Tenets ther 's nothing more fâ—quent among vs then to go to tâ— Protestant Lyturgy in the morninâ— in the euening to the Presbyteriâ— especially if our interest or conâ—nieÌ„cie requires it Can there be a mâ— convincing proofe that we esteâ— it all alike what Religion Tenâ— we profess let a Lutheran go â— France alas hee 'l neuer stick toâ— to the Hugonots meeting and seruice let a Protestant go to Germany heâ— go as cheerfully to the Lutheraâ— Church as in England to the Prâ—testant let a Hugonot or Presbyteriaâ— go to Hungary or Poland he is weâ—com to the Antitrinitarians Socâ—nians and when any of them returâ— home hee 'l be as before Ismael But can you prove this Doctrin by the testimony of
fishermen to be his Apostles â— know it 's the practise of Papists and from them your Church of England borrows it to despise the Ministeriâ— of Women tradesmen and illiteraâ— people in preaching teaching and interpreting Scripture but S. Paul tell vs The word of God is not bound that's to say is not entayl'd on thâ— learned rich or great ones the Wind bloweth where it listeth oâ— Bishops and Ministers would make â— Monopoly of the Word of God and have themselves to be the only Retailers of it for to have som plausible title for to enjoy great Rents and sheare the flock but wee have seen as well among the Quakers aâ— in other Congregations filly Women and Tradesmen replenisht with Gods Spirit preach and expound the great Misteries of our Religion with as much of good success and edification of the Auditory as any Penny-booke Man in England Ismael It seems you approue the Ministerie of Women and silly Tradesmen for preaching and teaching the flock and if so you 'l ouerthrow our Hierarchy of Bishops and Ministers Isaac It matters not much for you to know what I approve or condemn but to know what the Doctrin of the Reformation is It 's this that none can teach preach administer Sacraments or exercise Ecclesiastical functions if he be not in holy Orders Bishop Minister or Deacon for the Church of England teachs it and you may believe it if you please You may also deny it and say any Woman or tradesman has as much power for to preach and administer the Sacraments as the richest Bishop in England this also is the Doctrin of the Reformation as well as the former because Quakers Presbyterians Brownists Anabaptists c. believe and teach it and they are men of as sound judgments and as good Reformeds as Protestants nay the most learned of our Reformers teach and commend the power of Women for to exercise Spiritual functions and administer the Sacraments Saumaise Peter Martyr and Zuinglius expresly defend the Priesthood as well of Women as of Men and Luther proves it efficaciously The first office of a Priest saies he is to preach this is common to all euen women the second is to baptize which is also common to women the third is to consecrat the bread and wine and this also is common to all as well as to men and in the absence of a Priest a womaâ— may absolve from sins as well as the Pope because the words of Christ whateuâ—â— yee shall vntye on earth shall be vntyed in heauen were said to all Christians And when so eminent men haâ— not said it reason and Scripture convinces it Reason because that our Rule of faith being Scripture aâ— each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it many women vndoubtedly are of sound judgment and why should not their interpretation of Scripture pass for the Doctrin of the Reformation as well as that of our Bishops and Ministers Scripture because wee reade the Samaritan Woman was the first who preached the Messias to the Cittie of Samaâ—ia and Christ commanded Mary Magdalen to go to preach his Resurrection to his Disciples and wee know by our Cronicles that our glorious Queen Elizabeth of blessed memory did not only gouern the state but was a great Apostoless in Church affaires Ismael To what purpose then have wee Bishops and Ministers who enjoy so vast reuenews if any man or woman can preach and administer the Sacraments as well as they Isaac You may believe Bishops and Ministers are very needfull for the service of the Church for they being commonly learned witty men and having Wyves they come to instruct their wyves so well that the good women com in a short time to be as learned as their husbands and as nimble and quick in the Ecclesiastical Ministeries as they if they were permitted to exercise them as som Authors of credit relate vnto vs that a Gentleman of Constance writ to his friend in a Village about threâ— leagues distant from that Cittie whose inhabitants were for the mosâ— part of our Lutheran Reformation the good Pastor exhorted his flocâ— to prepare for Easter Communion and that none should presume tâ— come to the holy Table but shoulâ— first confess and receive absolutioâ— of his sins Easter holy dayes beinâ— come such a multitude flockt to confession that the Pastor could not satisfie the devotion of so great a croâ— he called his wife to help him fâ— to hear Confessions and give absolutions in wich Ministerie the gooâ— Lady did labour with great satisfaction of the Penitents but neithâ— the Pastor nor his virtuous Consoâ— being able to dispatch so great a multitude he called his Maide Servant who did work in the holy Minister with as much expedition as her Master But for all this the Church oâ— Scotland France and all England Protestants excepted will tell yoâ— that Bishops and Ministers are noâ— needfull nay that they are very prejudicious to the Reformation and State To the Reformation because this Hierarchy with the Bishops Court surplices Corner Caps and other trumperies puts the flock in mind of Popery wherof its a perfect resemblance and whylst the Papists see our change from them comes to be almost no more but to substitute new Priests and Bishops in their own place for to manage more conscienciously the Rents and reuenews which they profanely abused and that those Rents and revenews are still in the hands of an Ecclesiastical Hierarchie they live in hopes of recovering them som day when our Bishops and Ministers will come to be as bad â—tewards of them as they were and â—hat the flock will be weary of them â—nd call back the Ancient Possessors â—ts therefore perhaps the Emissaries â—f the Pope do incessantly blow in â—ur eares how ill our Ecclesiastical â—evenews are bestowed for to mainâ—ain wyves and Children Pomp and â—anitie of Bishops and Ministers no â—ess than in Popery To the State they seem to be prejudicious wheraâ— any but a Bishop or Minister would think it would be more advantagiouâ— to the Common-wealth that the king should have those Revenews for to maintain his fleet and armie and easâ— thereby the subjects of subsidies anâ— taxes than that a handfull of Bishop and Ministers should have them specially when others can preach anâ— teach as well as they for nothing bâ— the pleasure of being heaâ—d Ismael But do not you see it woulâ— be a Sacriledge that the king shoulâ— deprive the Clergy of their Churcâ— Revenews Isaac And do not you know thâ— almost all our Congregations do holâ— our Clergy to be no true Clergy bâ— as meer laymen as you or I the admit no Clergy or Episcopal Carâ—cter But Elders chosen by the Coâ—gregation and if they be no trâ— Clergy they have no right to thâ— Church Revenews and it s no sacrâ—ledge to deprive them of them Thâ— Popish Clergy in Henry the VII time had visibly a greater right â— them than ours now have sâ— neither the
Man servant or her neighbour which Doctrin they say is come to the eares of our London Sisters and he gives the like libertie to the husbands if their Wyves be pettish and humorsom If the husband saies he cannot correct the humorsomness of his wife he may imagin she is dead and may marry an other because it s not in the powâ—r of a Man to live without a Woman nor in hers to live without a man Isaac This is Scripture as interpreted by Luther and consequently must not be denied to be the Doctrin of the Reformation nor can any of our Reformation be justly punisht or blam'd for practising it if he judges by Scripture it be true as Luther did for this is our Rule of faith But Luther never gave this libertie but vpon condition that the husband or wife should first make their complaint before a Magistrat for to have a redress of their injurie and discontent but this condition seems too combersom to the modestie of our sisters they do noâ— submit to it but do themselves justice without any address to the Magistrat I know also that not only Luther but Bucer Melancton Ochinus Musculus and Calvinâ— do teaâ—h that a Man who finds his wife in Adulterie may cast her of by Divorce and marry an other and our french synods have ordered thiâ— Doctrin to be put in their Ecclesiastical Disciplin so that its the Doctrin of Scripture as interpreted by these Persons of sound judgment and consequently of the Reformation you may therefore believe and practise it our Sisters particularly our Ministers wyves were much alarm'd at this Doctrin and say its à damnable Heresy believe as you please Ismael Does not Luther say itâ— impossible a yong man of 20 years can liue without a woman or a yong maide of 18 years without a manâ— whereby all Parents may believe their Daughters of that age are defiled if not preferr'd in due time sure you will not say this is the Doctrin of the Reformation Isaac And who doubts but thaâ— its the Reformed Doctrin Scripture as interpreted by so sound a judgment the contrary Doctrin is also of the Reformation and you may believe it because our glorious Queen Elizabeth dyed a Virgin and it s credibly reported som few fellows of Oxford and Cambridge liue continently Ismael But what do you think of a Child Christen'd in Popery by a Monk or a Fryar ought he to be Christen'd again in our Reformation and what if a Popish Priest or Fryar did becom of our Reformed Church can he lawfully marry wheras he made a vow of Chastity Isaac As to the first Quere it s the Doctrin of the Reformation declared by many french Synods and recorded in their Ecclesiastical Disciplin that he must be Christen'd again because the first baptism was Null it s also the Doctrin of the Reformation declared by the Church of England and many Synods of France that the first Baptism is sufficient and valid believe which you please It 's also the Doctrin of the Reformation that Infants baptism is not at all needfull nay nor Lawfull say the Anabaptists so saies Calvin Zuinglius Beza and many others it s likewise the Doctrin of our 39. Articles and our holy Synod of London that Infants baptism is lawfull and needfull Believe which you like best both are of the Reformation As to the second Quere it s the Doctrin of the Reformation that Priests and Fryars are obliged to the vow of Chastity which they made in Popery and cannot marry this is the Doctrin of many of our Brethren and particularly of Hooker Marloratus Budellus and Couel who say the Papish vows of Pouertie Obedience and Chastitie are commendable and ought to be kept You may also believe this is wicked Doctrin and that they may take wyues notwithstanding their vow of Chastitie as well as Benefices notwithstanding their vow of Pouertie believe which you please both Doctrins are of the Reformation but the best is to say they can marry for if marriage and benefices were denied them no Priest or Fryar would euer embrace our Reformed Doctrin We know our great Zuinglius himself would not at all preach the Ghospell vnto the Suitzers vntill that he presented a petition for himself and his companions all Priests and Fryars extant yet in his 1. Tom. pag. 110. and obtained the contents of it which was to have Wyves Nor can wee doubt this to be the best Doctrin wheras Luther Beza and almost all our other Reformers were Priests and Fryars and the first step they gaue in the Reformation was to Marry the Papists and som weake Brethren were much scandalized at Luthers marriage and Erasmus his rallerie vpon it was much solemnised Luther yesterday a Monk to day a husband and next day à Father because that honest Cate Boren his virtuous Bride was hapily delivred of a louey Boy eight daies after he married her but the Servant of God did not regret the action which proues that he judged by scripture it was very lawfull V. DIALOGUE ISMAEL You know I have been born and bred in our holy Reformation and a Church of England man you tell me I may believe this or that and whateuer I please I would gladly settle once for ever and resolve what J may and ought to believe and not to be euery day carried away with euery wind of Doctrin let me to that purpose propose vnto you and hear your resolution of som doubts What do you think have not wee a Church on earth establisht by Christ wherin wee are to live and serve him and believe her Doctrin Isaac J will giue you no other instruction nor answer but the pure Doctrin of the Reformation which when you have heard you may determin as you like best what religion to embrace but know this that after you have determin'd with yourself to believe this or that you may with a very safe conscience alter that resolution next day after and believe the quite contrary to what you resolved to believe if vpon better consideration you thinke the contrary to be true this is the libertie of the holy Reformation as J proued in my first Dialogue As to your present doubt J answer it s the Doctrine of the Reformation that it was Jesus Christ the son of God who establisht the Church you may believe it therefore It 's also the Doctrin of the Reformation that it was not Jesus Christ the son of God who establisht the Church that this is the Doctrin of our Reformation its apparent for its Scripture as interpreted by Ochinus a man of sound judgment whom all Italy could not match saies Calvin in whose presence England was happy and vnhappy in his absence saies B Bale Ochinus speakes thus Considering how the Church was establisht by Christ and washt with his blood and considering again how it was vtterâ—y ouerthrowen by Papacy I concluded that he who
word Isaac How can you say I beate you from all Religion when I directly perswade you to follow the Rule of faith of our Reformation Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it let this be your Religion if you will be a true Reformed Whateuer you judge in your conscience to be true let the Church of England or France or any other say and believe what they will you are to believe but what you judge by scripture to be true and this is the Religion of the Reformation Ismael J would gladly know if it be lawfull to chop or change the text Isaac It 's the Doctrin of the Reformation that you cannot because God has forbid to add to or take away from his word and therefore wee condemn the Papists for their Traditions obtruded vpon the flock as the Word of God It 's also the Doctrin of the Reformation and the practise of our best Reformers when the text does not speake cleerly enough that for to refute Popery and establish our own Doctrin wee may add or diminish a word or two which is not to change the Word of God but to make it speake more expresly as when Luther had a mind to preach Iustification by faith alone finding the Text said but Man is justified by faith he added the word Alone and made the Text very cleer against Popery which formerly was somwhat obscure Zuinglius being to teach the Figurative presence of Christ in the Sacrament found the Text this is my Body to be too pat against his Doctrin and insteed of Is put in this signifieth The Church of England being to preach the kings Spiritual Supremacy could not convince the obstinat Papist by the Original text which saide 1. Pet. 2 submit yourselvts vnto every human creature for the Lord's sake whether it it be the king as excelling or to c. But in king Edwards time they altered one word and made the text thus submit yourselves to every Ordinance of man whether it be to the king as being the cheef head and the following impressions of the Bible the yeare 1557. and 79. saie To the king as supreame And so the true Ductrin is cleerly convinced out of Scripture as also the Lawfullness of Priests marriageâ— for the text before the Reformation said 1. Cor. 9 have not wee power to leade about a Woman sister and now our Bibles say have not wee power to leade about a Wife being our sister hence its evident according the Doctrine and practise of our Reformation that when you have a mind to establish a Doctrin which you judge to be true you may change the text and make it speake to your sense and meaning provided you judge your sense to be true Ismael What do you think of Iustifying faith does faith alone justify vs Isaac It 's the Doctrin of the Reformation that without charity it cannot because S. Paul saies 1. Cor. 13. if I have faith so as to move mountains and have no charity I am nothing It 's also the Doctrin of the Reformation that its impious and wicked to say faith alone without charity does not justify this is Scripture as interpreted by Luther a man of sound judgment Who say quoth Luther that faith alone tho perfect it be cannot justify without charitie say impiously and wickedly because faith alone without any good works doth justify Believe which Doctrin you please both are of the Reformation Ismael Luther was insolent in checking the Doctrin of S. Paul Isaac Probably he did not reflect that it was the Doctrin of the Apostle and if you will have it to be a check of S. Paul Luther will answer for himself Be it saies he that the Church Augustiâ— or other Drs also Peter and Paul nay and an Angel from heaven should teach otherwise than as I teach yet my Doctrin is such that it setteth forth Gods glory I know I teach no human but Divin Doctrin It 's the Doctrin of the Reformation that faith alone without any good works and notwithstanding all sins you are guiltie of doth justify you this is Scripture as interpreted by Luther who saies nothing can damn you but incredulity as nothing but faith can save you of Whitaker Wotten fulk and Beza whose words I related in our precedent Dialogue which J believe you remember and J need not repeat Jts also the Doctrin of the Reformation that good workes are meritorious of grace and glorie Hocker and Harmonia confess say its the Doctrin of scripture and what any Person of sound judgment judges to be the Doctrin of scripture he may believe it for this is our Rule of faith it s like wise the Doctrin generally of all our Church that good Works are not at all meritorious Tindal called by Fox a Man of God and a constant Martyr judges this to be so true that in his treatise de Mammona iniquitatis he saies Christ himself did not by all his good Works merit the glory and tho the scripture saies expresly he did Calvin affirms that its a foolish curiosity to examin and a rash proposition to say Christ did merit Jt's the Doctrin of the Reformation that tho good works be not meritorious nor have not the least influence in our justification or salvation yet they are absolutly needfull for both in as much as that true faith cannot be without good Works because they are the marks and signs of a living faith by which alone wee are saved this is the judgment of the Church of England expressed in the 11. and 12. Article of the 39. and of Melancton in locis Commun de Bonis operibus and you may believe it You may also believe and its the Doctrin of the Reformation that good Works are so farr from being needfull that they are prejudicious and hurtfull to our salvation and the best way to be saved is to do no good Work at all this is scripture as interpreted by Jlliricus Flaccius Amsdorfius quoted in Act. Colloq Aldeburg pag. 205. and 299. and Luther was so deeply perswaded of this truth that tho Christ said If â—hou wilt enter into the kingdom of heaven keep the Commandments Luther saies it s an obstacle to our Salvation to keep them Where it is said quoth he that faith in Christ doth indeed justify vs but that it is necessary also to keep the Commandements there Christ is denied and faith abolisht because that which is proper to faith alone is attributed to the Commandements And again saies he if faith be-acompanied with good Works it s â—o true faith that it may justifie it must be alone without any good Works This is Scripture as interpreted by such Eminent and sound men and consequently the Doctrin of the Reformation and who doubts but that any Doctrin of the Reformation may be believed Hence forward when you hear the preacher exhort you to good Works you may believe him if you please and have a
dirt vpon his Church the honest Quaker will say I am a profane man others perhaps will say I am of no Religion but a despiser of all and our Congregations are so vncharitable that likely none will accept of me because I say all religions are very good a sad thing that a man must be hated for speaking well of his neighbours and that each one must have all the world to be naught but himself this then is my Religion To suffer persecution for justice and truth to render good for evil to bless those who curse me and speake well of all congregations whylst they speake all evil against me reflect well vpon what J discoursed hitherto and you will find J am as great a louer of the Reformation as they who may think me its enemie and reade my following discourse and you will find I loue Popery as well as the Reformation the Spirit of God makes no exception of Persons Ismael You promised to proue by the Principles of the Reformation that wee may believe all the Tenets of Popery and remain still of the Reformation how can this be Isaac You remember I excepted one Principle of Poperie wherin you must necessarily dissent from them and if you deny this one Principle you may believe all their others Tenets as well as the Pope and be as â—ood a Child of the Reformation as Luther Ismael What Principle is this which you seem to make the only distinctive sign of a Reformed from a Papist Isaac Listen a whyle a Papist is not a Papist because he believes Purgatory Transubstantiation Indulgences and the rest of Popish Tenets but because he believes them vpon the testimonie of the Pope and Church because they assure him they are revealed Truths if a Papist did say J believe these Tenets because I myself do judge by scripture that they are revealed and not because the Pope and Church say they are he would be no Papist The Papist believes the Mystery of the Trinity the Incarnation and passion of Christ the Protestant believes the same Mysteries yet the one is a Papist and no Protestant the other is a Protestant and no Papist And why because the Papist believes them vpon the testimonie of the Pope and Church the Protestant believes them vpon the testimony of Gods Written Word believe then whatever you please of Popery provided you believe it because you judge by Scripture its true and not because the Pope or the Church sayes it you 'l never be a Papist but a perfect Reformed Ismael If this discourse be solid you may hedge in all the Articles of Popery into our Reformation Isaac If you peruse the works of our Reformed Drs you 'l hardly find any Article of Popery but has been judged by many or som of our best Reformed Drs to be the true Doctrin of scripture and wheras any Doctrin which any Person of sound judgment vnderstands by scripture to be true may be justly called the Doctrin of the Reformation it follows that hardly is there any Article of Popery for which wee see so many persecutions againsts subjects and such troubles in our Parliaments but is truly the Doctrin of the Reformation Ismael Shew me som examples of this Isaac The Veneration of Relicks and Saints dead bones is generally believed by vs to be meer Popery and superstition therefore wee made no store of Luther and Calvins bones tho wee know them to be as great Saints as any in the Popish Church but Veneration of Relicks and Saints bones is the Doctrin of our Reformation for whatever is set down and commended by our Common Prayer book must be vndoubtedly esteemed our Reformed Doctrin and practice and our common Prayer book printed since our Kings happy restauration in its Kalender sets down a day to the Translation of S. Edward king of Saxons Body in the month of June and dedicats an other to the translation of the Bodies of S. Martin and Swithin in the month of July The Veneration and vse of the Sign of the Cross is flat Popery in the judgment of all our Congregations yet any Reformed Child may laudably and piously vse it wheras our Common Prayer Book in the Administration of Baptism commands the Minister to vse it saying Wee sign him with the sign of the Cross in token that heerafter he shall not be ashamed to confess the faith of Christ crucified and manfully to fight vnder his banner against Sin the world and the Deuil And in our kalender printed since his Majesti's restauration it s called the Holy Cross Our Congregations generally believe its Popery to keep Holy daies except the Sabboth day and Saints daies to fast Lent Vigils commanded Emberdays and fridaies and all this is recommanded to vs in our Common Prayer book and the Minister is commanded in the Administration of the Lords Supper to publish the Holy daies of the week and exhort vs to fast and surely he is not commanded to teach or exhort vs to any thing but to the Doctrin of the Reformation It 's true the Students of our Colledges of Oxford and Cambridge are much troubled with scruples in this point these Pauperes de Lugduno are compelled to fast all fridays throughout the yeare and it s not hungar that makes them complain but tenderness of Conscience because they feare its Popery It 's a Popish error wee say to believe that Pennance or our penal works of fasting almsdeeds or corporal austerities can auaile and helpe for the remission of our Sins and satisfying Gods Justice No we say penal works serue for noting all is don by Repentance that 's to say by sorrow of heart for having offended God This is the Doctrin of Danaeus Willet Junius and Calvin who saies Francis Dominick Bernard Antony and the rest of Popish Monks and Fryars are in hell for their austerities and penal Works for all that you may very well believe and its the Doctrin of the Reformation that Pennance and Penal Works do auaile for the remission of our sins and are very profitable to the soule for our Common Prayer booke in the Commination against sinners saies thus In the Primitive Church there was a godly Disciplin that at the beginning of Lent such as were notorious Sinners were put to open pennance and punisht in this world that their soules may be saued in the day of the Lord. And our Common Prayer booke wishes that this Disciplin were restored again and Surely it does not wish that Popery were restored therefore it s no Popery to say that Pennance or penal Works do satisfy for our sins in this world and auaile to save vs in the other Ismael I know many of our Congregations mislike much our Common Prayer booke for these Popish Tenets but what do you say of the grand errors of Popery can a man be a true Child of the Reformation and yet believe the Popes Supremacy deny the kings supremacy believe Transubstantiation and Communion in one kind are these