Christs own time it is evideÌ„t out of the Scrip ture that the highest spiritual dignity going by y Ioh. 11. 51. yeeres Annas Caiphas other vnworthy meÌ„ of that rabble did enioy it VpoÌ„ the birth of Iesus they were not glad who should most have reioyced in it but al Ierusalem was z Math. 2. 3. troubled at it And how they persisted afterward till Christ did manifest himselfe fully may be guessed by diverse circuÌ„stances which the EvaÌ„gelists do meÌ„tion after his birth But wheÌ„ he came first into the world of whom do we find speech made but of some shep-heards in the field of Simeon an old maÌ„ of Anna a most aged womaÌ„ both ready to goe into their graves of Ioseph Mary Zacharias Elizabeth and very fewe other And of these some might be soone dead other lived out of the way at Beth-lehem or Nazareth or in Aegypt the shepheards were in the fields about their trade but where there was the apparaÌ„cy of a visible coÌ„gregatioÌ„ caÌ„ hardly be imagined WheÌ„ our Saviour had selected out his Apostles they then were termed by the name of a Flock but yet by their master they were called but a a Luc. 12. 32. little flocke where the Rhemists do confesse that b Rhemens ibi in the beginning it was little indeed At the death of Christ wheÌ„ his body hanged on the Crosse for our sakes his disciples were c Math. 26. 56. all fled no man daring to shew himselfe d Ioh. 19. 25. Nic. Cleman de mater CoÌ„cil Mary Iohn a few womeÌ„ were al the faithful that now appeared vpoÌ„ earth And afterward while the Apostles their followers walked very privately or were asseÌ„bled in a e Act. 1. 13. chaÌ„ber the Priests Scribes Pharisies were they who â—uffled it in the streets bore the sway in the TeÌ„ple so that if a weak body had enquired for the church he might rather have bin directed to theÌ„ who had the law the altars al sacred things in their custody then to any other When f Act. 8. 1. SteeveÌ„ had beene stoned and for feare of the persecution which was at Hierusalem the disciples were all scattered besides the Apostles it may well be presumed that for a time they which remained in the citty where SteeveÌ„ had lost his life did not walke very opeÌ„ly Truth it is that after these things the Church was better setled and the truth was more spread but yet never was there any such priviledge bestowed vpon it but that in the daies of persecutioÌ„ or some grievous Apostasie the faithful might be brought to a smal visibility 15 Our Saviours words intend so much when alluding to the time of his second appearaÌ„ce to iudge the quicke the dead he asketh g Luk 18. 8. Neverthelesse when the sonne of man commeth shall hee finde faith on the earth as meaning that very little should then be to be found in comparison of the flowds and Ocean of iniquity which every where should abound But God to the end that he might not haue vs ignoraÌ„t but warned before hand into what straights the Church should be brought informeth vs by Saint Paul that the Lord shall not come except there first be an h 2. Thes. 2. 3 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Apostasie or revolt or falling away wherein Antichrist with great pride and disdaine should shew himselfe This is solemnely spoken of by the Apostle by al both old new intreating of it is observed to signifie some matter of great note that is to say some maine declining from somewhat Many of our Papists fearing to touch this soare which can in no case turne them to good would haue this interpreted to note nothing else but the slipping of divers regions countries froÌ„ their subiection to the Romane Empire But Gregory Martin and the other Rhemists being overcome with the evidence of truth are heere a litle more honest then ordinary and speake to other purpose Indeede they cannot tell how it will be taken at other Papists hands that contrary to the custome of their fellows in a matter of such moment they should giue way vnto vs and therefore they doe vse these words in way of excuse be i Rhemens in 2. Thes. 2 3. it spoken vnder the correction of Gods church al learned Catholikes But to the point concerning the Apostasie they deliver this It is very like that this great defection and revolt shall not be only from the Romane Empire but specially from the Romane church and withall from most pointes of Christian Religion In the margent it is and from most articles of the Catholike faith Here they would haue vs take the Romish beleefe for the Christian Religion Catholike faith but that deserveth a long pause We rather obserue out of them that this revolt is in matter of faith and not onely from the Empire then which glosse nothing can be truer Well then if there must be so egregious an Apostasie it wil follow that Antichrist so dominering as by the Apostle he is described will not be negligent so to represse the publike service of God that it shall not carry any liuely head or countenance where he hath to doe So that certainely our Rhemists yeelding to this exposition doe in substance confesse so much as that the apparencie of Gods congregation in the time of the great defection must bee mightely eclipsed Now the Lord to the end that he might establish his faithfull and arme them to expect this paucity of beleevers and inconspicuousnes of his Church and yet not be discouraged for that which should be past present or to come and againe that there might be no doubt in a matter of this moment letteth vs farther know that the k Apoc. 12. 6 womaÌ„ fled into the wildernes where shee hath a place prepared of God It is not doubted of betweene the Romanists vs but that this woman doth represeÌ„t the church concerning whom being in the wildernes it doth manifestly follow that for the time of her aboad there which the Almightie had decreed shee should not be discerned that is by her enemies who did and would chase her not withstanding it be not to be doubted but shee knew where her selfe was If the Romanist therefore and persecuting Adversary did not ever see the professors of the Gospel it was no wonder the woman was to remaine in the wildernes apart hid from them The evidence of which matter is such that as Master l In praefat super Apocalyps Foxe observeth for feare of divers things in the Revelation of S. Iohn wherof this may worthily be one scant any Popish writer for many yeares togither durst adventure to comment any thing vpon the Apocalyps vntill our Rhemists being desirous to shame the Pope themselues with all who are wise adventured to set penne to paper Having then a purpose to set foorth
〈◊〉 and we cannot tell how many kinds and theâ—… 〈◊〉 will bâ—… 〈◊〉 and pretend 〈◊〉 draâ—… their doâ—… from you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thâ—… Apostâ—… Sâ—… 〈◊〉 hearing thâ—… would not have bin aâ—…shed at al but would have signified that there was 〈◊〉 â—…ght way which was chalked out in the writings of the old 〈◊〉 Testâ—… 〈◊〉 bâ—…ing walked in woâ—…d bâ—…ng men vnto life thâ—…â—…st 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 byâ—… 〈◊〉 which 〈◊〉 had opeâ—… 〈◊〉 being 〈◊〉 to draw some thither vnto their owne 〈◊〉 But if you will looke lower to the fourth age after Christ 〈◊〉 shall finde that youâ—… obiection might moâ—…â—…ly have 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Geâ—…es in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 oâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈…〉 you many strifes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I know not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I should choose what I should preferre Everyone such I say the truth 〈◊〉 I should beleeve I 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 since I am 〈◊〉 of the Scriptures and they on both sides doe pretend the same Yet his Conclusion is that 〈◊〉 of the Scripture and such necessary consequences as are drawne from thence the iudgement what is truth is to 〈◊〉 had But what small vnity was there among the Christians when he wrote this Or when Saint Austen mencioned more then b De haeresib ad quod vult Deum fourescore heresyes which had arisen in the Church all whom but for tediousnesse I would retire from him as also one of Epiphanius and Theodoret that the Reader might see that we need not to be frighted with the pretended shew of your 55. Now might not such a one as that Symmachus was who vnder the Emperour Valentinian in the time of S t Ambrose made so earnest effectualla c Ambros. Epist speech that Ethnicisiue might be restored in Rome and altars might be permitted to their Paimme Gods Iupiter Mercury Apollo Iâ—…o and the rest have disputed in the same manner against the Christian faith as you now do reason VVhile vvee retained the service of our formerly knowne Maiores minores Dij vvee agreed vpon that vvorship which every God should have wee knew their Temples their altars their sacrifices their Priests their feasts times and seasons vvee had vnity in our heartes and sweete harmony in our speeches 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which you have â—…hed among vs we see nothing 〈◊〉 to which we may cleave for howe should we be resolved what is to be embraced when you cannot agree among yourselves what is the 〈◊〉 and right way And the difâ—… is not that some go to the 〈◊〉 hand 〈◊〉 the other 〈◊〉 a maÌ„ had 〈◊〉 many hands 〈◊〉 d Plutarch de multitud aâ—…corum Brâ—… 〈◊〉 which 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dâ—…ed hands was imagined to have there 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 some be wanting who with 〈◊〉 dis-ioined 〈◊〉 from 〈◊〉 would 〈◊〉 to every one of them If Symmachus had spoke thus as heâ—… 〈◊〉 not behinde hand to vtter other 〈◊〉 sheâ—… available 〈◊〉 his purpose St. Ambrose who answered 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 obiections â—…d 〈◊〉 have 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 this 〈◊〉 would 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I 〈◊〉 â—…Lineâ—… and the same individed truth should be hemmed about with many different doctrines of Heresie T. HILL AND what divisions you have there in England you may in some sort know who doe as I thinke now and then heare Preachers of different doctrine What combats your Bishops Councellours and moderate sort of Protestants have to defend their Parlimentary Religion and the Queenes Proceedings as they terme it against Puritans Brownists other such like good fellowes that by shew of Scriptures impugne it you cannot but knowe and see with your eyes Neither can it bee answered that the Sects heere rehearsed differ one from another onely in matters of small moment for they differ and disagree in waighty points of our salvation as might heere easily be declared but that it would not benefite this mine intended brevity so to doe G. ABBOT 8 WHen you have put on your spectacles to see have picked your eares to heare you and all your confederates can neither iustly see nor heare Gods name be blessed therfore that either at this time or at the divulging of this your treatise there be or were any differences of opinion in England concerning the faith Our Preachers do not differ or teach diverse doctrines in any of their Sermons VVe have for our rule the olde and new Testament the e Articul Relig. in Synodo 1562. Confession of our Church in the Articles of Religion set out by the warraÌ„t of the Scripture alone and to these as to the Analogy of faith we do cleave and there is no graduate in our Vniversities and much lesse Preachers and Pastours in our churches but subscribe thervnto And if heeretofore there have bin some fewe Brownists mis-ledde by a man who afterward was sory for his own over-sight the name of them now as I thinke is not to bee heard of among vs. And such as you cal Puritans did never differ froÌ„ the rest in any point of substance but about circumstances and ceremonies as cappe surplesse and such like and about the manner of Ecclesiasticall regiment even as your secular Priests lately did not thinke fitte to bee ruled by your Arch-priest and his Assistants and yet Garnet your Provincial and Persons the Rectour of your English Seminary at Rome and the Pope himselfe whether by any surreptitious Breve or no doe you looke did thinke fitte to have them so ordered But never were the CouÌ„sellours of Estate nor the Bishops of this kingdome so disquieted with those dis agreements as the Court of Rome the Cardinals there have beene with your gaâ—…les in England in as much as the bruit of these differences heere went but to the Bishop of the Dioces or the High CoÌ„mission at LoÌ„don but your broiles brabbles have passed the Sea crossed Fraunce traversed the Alpes have never ceased ruÌ„ning till they have rapped at the gate of f Appellaâ—… 〈◊〉 Clement 8. Clemens Octavâ—… What the issue of theÌ„ farther wil be time must discover but of this we are assured that to your great discontentment and to the end that we might all the better observe you in our late Soveraignes daies of most happy memorie the fatherly wisedome of our châ—…stest Church governours and the moderate temper of other men being not so farre of from seemely conformity as heeretofore did to the ioy of all good men reasonablie well cure that wound and salve that sore and so the shame was taken away from Israel And had not this beene yet if your brevity which is but a shuffling colour to make shewe of some things which are not had beene turned into one yeeres or seaven yeeres longity you could not have shewed that in substantiall points of faith there was variaÌ„ce among vs. And therfore for that matter you do wel to do as you
and fight vnder his banner And something they must returne for their hungrie pensions needy mainetenaunce which they receive from his Holinesse and the King Catholike besides the containing of their favourites heere in their former courses by refreshing their wittes with novelties and the solacing of their owne discontentments vvhich doe the lesse gaule and gripe their vnquie◅ hartes while their heades are busied with inventing and their handes with writing that which whether it be true or false tending to edification or destruction they little care or consider 2 But of the two it is more to be marveiled at that after so long and plentifull a flowing forth of the water of life there should yet be anie of our countri-men and women remaining at home who will tast of puddle water yea bee as greedie to drinke thereof as the maisters of the broken cisternes can bee ready to propose it vnto them That come there forth any pamphlet of what small worth soever yet some or other will either for their ignorance admire it or for their vnsetlednes entertaine it or for their perversenes embrace it as if it were some divine Oracle descended from aboue But this is the instabilitie of their iudgment who are once c Gal. 3. 1. bewitched like the foolish Galathians that although Christ hath beene so lively testified vnto them as if hee had beene crucified before their eies yet if newe teachers come one after another they will earnestly attend listen vnto thē The world is not so altered but that in their passage to d Num. 11. 4. Canaan some Israelites wil loath that Māna which is c Ps. 78. 25. the bread of Angels long to be againe in Aegypt If there were never philosopher so absurde to invent any fond opinion but there were some auditours as absurde to maintaine and follow the same who can conceive but that vntill the destructiō of that whore the famous strumpet with the f Apoc. 17. 2 cup of whose fornication many of the Kings and much of the people of the earth have bin dronken shoulde stil have some inamored on her As there ever will be deceivers so there shall be some which will be deceived Satan cannot give over his g Iob. 2. 2. compassing the earth his skoutes messengers vvill entend his service Some children of Idolaters to the worlds end shall vnto the h Exo. 20. 5. third and fourth generation participate of their parents curse God with-drawing his grace from them and not opening their eies the peevish will decline stumbling at some rocke of offence weake women to shew themselves to be Eves daughters will rather i Gen. 3. 1. chuse to harken vnto the serpent then to God almighty young ones for want of iudgment and discretion wil credulously listen to a Sirens Song Thus it hath bin and thus it wil be Not withstanding the Magistrate by his charge the Minister by his duty indeede every Christian in his place is both for pieties and charities sake to endevour to plucke as many as he can k Iud. 23. out of the fire as Saint Iude speaketh 3 Yet this being graunted that such leaders and such followers there be and will be it may neverthelesse be much marveiled at that the wisedome of Poperie is so blinded and the ability of English fugitives is growne to so low an ebbe in the Seminaries that to make good their party they haue no better means to vse but such base ones as in this booke or libel are presented to the world Especiallie since this treatise is pretended to come from a Doctor of Divinitie and one taking degree in one of those Vniversities which by themselves bee l See Reason 15. and Bristow Motive 31. reported to bee so famous as that almost he who may but smell the smoake of them or breath but a while on the ayre there shal be inspired with knowledge have more learning Metaphysically infused into him thē among vs is to bee attained to in many yeares And can a man of the highest degree in schoole there for the maintenance of his cause bring no better then such worne broken stuffe as heere is cōgested and heaped togither Yet worship betide him who not long before the birth of this tract put out the m Certaine Articles or forcible Reasons 1600. Pamphlet that the Protestants haue no faith nor religion that the learned Protestantes are Insidels that the Protestants are bound in conscience to avoide all good workes that the Protestants teach that God is worse thē the Devill and such other worthy conclusions to which n D. Barlow D. Buckley two learned men haue made reply For although he had but little honestie in propounding such prodigious and portentuous monsters yet he had more wit since that caried some ◅ūble with it albeit in such fort as that those who respected it were more afraide then hurt That which comming vnawares seemed to the improvident at the first to be some clap of thunder was at the last discerned not to be so much as the striking vp of a drumme It was no otherwise but a fewe stones shaken togither in an empty barrell Yet the wile of the man is to be commended that he could set som good words on it as the Montibank◅ doth vse who after open protestation that he hath somthing to sel of admirable vertue of incōparable value of inestimable benefite which the Graunde Seigneour of the Turks the Great Duke of Muscovy the Emperor of Germany wil accept of and desire yea earnestly call for which to have at their neede Lords and Ladies will thinke themselves most happie doth at the length after all this flourish produce some lippe-salve or other such toy as mooveth laughter in some and serious indignation in other who have not beene acquainted with the Mountibankes custome 4 But this gallant with whom I haue to deale and who speaketh as hereafter you shall heare imagining that all the men in England are as blind as he would have them to be hath sent vs a fresh garment made of other mens olde clothes which the most of vnderstanding have seene and knowne to bee both worne bare and torne like the Ruines of Time And hee hath little altered the verie fashion of it saving peradventure to sette the right sleeve where the left formerly was and something now before which erst stood behinde Indeed some peeces he hath shrunk drawne thē in narrower to make them seeme the thicker some other few for in sooth they are but few he hath enlarged with a skirt or hem of new cloath and yet willing to buy as little stuffe as possibly he might in some places he hath sewed two or three ragges togither so to make a pretty peece The truth is that now almost o An. 1574. thirty yeeres since a coūtry-man of ours whom D. Fulke not vnfitly called Bl◅ring Bristow did with much bouldnesse
concerning whose appearance Esay did foretell that to s Cap. 2. 2. the mountaine of the house of the Lord c. all nations should flowe And many people should goe and say Come and let vs goe vp to the mountaine of the Lorde But that which you cite of Idols t Vers. 18. And the Idols will he vtterly destroy howsoever it may be applied vnto Christ yet if you looke againe it may well be disputed to belong in that Chapter to another time and matter and then you in referring the whole to the revealing of the Messias may very well be deceived I will not stand vvith you but that Esay and Daniel and David and the other sacred writers do give ample testimony of a copious confluence every way to the Church As also it must be yeelded that men longed for the comming of the fore-appointed Saviour since hee it vvas alone who should bring ioy vnto maÌ„kind Only by the way I do tell you that in delivering the words of Esay you are bould with the text when you put it Our Lord whereas no such word as Our is there to be fouÌ„d But that is your custome to hale in that word throughout the whole newe Testament it neither being in the Greeke nor in the vulgar Latine Onely the 〈◊〉 Rhemists doe enioyne In 1. Tim. 6. 20. it to their obedient children that they must not say The Lord but Our Lord as we say Our Lady for his mother not the Lady this they make to be a marke of difference betweene themselves so speaking and vs saying after the Scripture The Lord. And accordingly our English people doe practise it if they savour of Poperyâ—… so much that in all my life I have scant heard any in coÌ„mon speech alwaies saying Our Lord but that party hath more or lesse beene tainted that way 7 Furthermore when you name Heathenish Idolatrie doe you give it that Epitheton as meaning that Christ would put an end to the horrible superstitions of the Ethnicks but that there should stil be Idolatry in your Synagogue which by no meanes you wil forgoe Or is it rather your minde that all Idolatrie is heathenish and that there can bee none in the daies of the newe Testament Indeede so M r. Bristow your good maister woulde make vs beleeve saying x Motiv 32. So must wee everie vvhere vnderstand Idols in the olde Testament that they were figures of Heresyes in this time of the nevve Testament no other Idols being now but Heresies Ponitur Idolum quanâ—… do novum dogma constituitur c. An Idoll is sell vp when a newe Position or Heresy is erected saith Saint Hierome the most learned expert In Ier. 32. interpreter of the Scriptures Saint Paule also himselfe giving his voice thervnto where by Baal the Idoll that God did speake of to Elias Rom. 11. be teacheth vs to vnderstaÌ„d the erroneous wicked doctrin against Christ 3. Reg 19. of his incredulous Countrie-men the Iewes of his time This is good Logicke M r. Bristow and for the sweetnes of the conclusion fit to be studied in your Popish Vniversities An Idoll is set vp when a new doctrine is erected which is a figurative vnderstanding Baal may in some application signisie an erroneous doctrine Ergo there bee now no other Idols but Heresies neither have bin vnder the Gospell By this reckoning you doe well in your Catechismes to leave out the second commandement as not at al belonging to the newe Testament But why did Saint Iohn after Christs death and ascension too bidde y 1. Ioh 5. 21 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Babes keepe your selves from Idolls And is it not saide else where speaking of times after the opening of the z Apoc. 8. 1. seventh seale and when the sixt a Cap 9. 13. Angell had sounded his trumpet that is to say towards the end of the world that men b Cap 9. 20. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 repented not of the deedes of their handes that they should not worship Devils and Idols of gold and silver and brasse stone and of wood which neither can see neither heare neither goe which being taken with al the circumstaÌ„ces is a most manifest convictioÌ„ that in the later daies there should be materiall Idols To which may be added the Idols destroied by CoÌ„stantine three hundred yeares after Christ the intolerable Idolatry which in this last age hath beene discovered to be committed in the East Indies America and many parts of Africa by diverse Ethnicks and Infidels which did do inhabit there Therefore you cannot so run away escape but that eveÌ„ now also Idolaters you may be This I note to shew how your Popery doth hang vpon gimols T. HILL NOw if the Religion of the Papists as these new men tearme them be false arronious then is it against the Messias and consequently it is a Religion of the Devils owne invention and hee the maister and inspirer thereof and so by it he is served and worshipped and then must it needes follow that the Prophets were false yea Christ himselfe saide not truely in telling his Disciples that the Prince of this world that is the Divell should then be cast out and that he would draw all to himselfe for that since his passion the Divell bath had a more large and ample dominion then he had before G. ABBOT 8 Very bluntly boisterously is your second PropositioÌ„ here connected to your former where we wil not be straight-laced toward you but readily yeelde you the tearme of Papists For if Christians be such as depend vpon Christ you may wel be called Papists as resting your summnÌ„ bonuÌ„ vpoÌ„ the Popes pleasure determination Neither shall you neede much to presse vs to grant that your Religion or rather SuperstitioÌ„ is false erronious yea against the Messias as far forth as the abuses of it stretch of the Divels owne invention For Saint Paule doth teach vs that it is c 1. Tim. 4. 〈◊〉 2. 3. doctrine of Divels to speake false in hypocrisie to forbid to marrie to abstaine from meates vvhich God hath created to bee receaved vvith giving of thankes the first wherof most of you pleÌ„tifully performe the second you inhibit to some men at all times the third to all men at some times and that not for state-governmeÌ„t but for Religion sake But the sequel of your inference doth prove to be a most discinct and dissolute thing for howe will it then followe that the Prophets were false and Christ saide not truely Marry in telling his Disciples that the Prince of the worlde that is the Devill should then bee cast out and that he would drawe all to himselfe Which doe you so expound as that all Nations of the world should immediately after his death resurrection and ascension be converted to the faith should alwaies so coÌ„tinue which your former words may wel seeme to import by
your inculcating of Al d Fol. 2. Nations having afterwards subioyned vnto it ever continue without interruption e Fol. 3. all Kinges people should acknowledge this Church againe all people which sate in darkenes in the shadow of death should be lightened delivered and set in the right way to Heaven If you take it thus you are pitifully out for our Saviour hath fore-told that into the f Math. 7. 13 wide gate broad way that leadeth to destruction many there be which enter but the straight gate and narrow way that leadeth vnto life few there be that finde And it was reveiled vnto Iohn that with the whore of Babylon the g Apoc. 17. 2. Kings of the earth committed fornication the inhabitours of the earth are drunken with the wine of her fornication And experience hath confirmed that not only the Saracene doctrin hath for almost these thousād yeeres possessed the shew face of many great countries but time out of mind very Gentilisme Heathenisme have raigned in the East West Indies in the Ilands neere adioyning in diverse parts of Africa in Lappia and many other countries the name of Iesus our Redeemer for ought that of certainty can be found till of late yeeres being scant ever heard of among them Or doe you rather vnderstand those speeches of all Nations cōming vnto him of all being drawne vnto Christ to carry this sence that the Gentiles nowe as well as formerly the Iewes should bee admitted and moreover that the word should bee spreade to the East and to the VVest and to the North and to the Southe so that before the day of iudgment God should have some faithfull in everie quarter and sometimes when his Church did flourish many thousands in diverse places and alwaies some servants some-where In this meaning if you take it we willingly ioyne with you the rather induced thervnto by the nature of the word All in the Scriptures and by the manner of the fulfilling of those Prophecies in the Church in such a sort as with reason cannot be gaine-saide For as All in holy writte doth evermore at least signifie many so it doth not cōtinually importe a generality without any sort of exception When it is saide that to Iohn the Baptist h Math. 3. 5. vvent out Hierusalem and all Iewry and all the region round about Iordan it is not meant that no individuall person did stay at home but many of all sortes rich and poore young and olde men and women such a company as if almost all the country had come in were partakers of his Baptisme So i T it 2. 11. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the grace of God hath appeared which bringeth salvation to all men saith Saint Paule to Titus Like to which is that to Timothy k 1. Tim. 2. 4. God our Saviour who will that all men shall be saved where All intendeth many or diverse of diverse sorts not vniversally every one He will have all to be saved saith Gregory l In 1. Reg. 14. because out of every sort of men hee chooseth those whome hee draweth to the ioye of everlasting salvation And Aquinas himselfe among other interpretations of that later place hath this m Part 1. q. 19. a. 6. It may bee vnderstood that the distribution must be made pro generibus singulorum and not pro singulis generum according to this sence God vvill have of every state of men to be saved males and females Iewes and Gentiles smal and great but not all of every severall state And who will say that in every particular countrie of Asia or the continent toward the South pole or many other quarters of the world the Church of Christ hath alwaies apparantly bin The Romanists of al other must not say so if they will have the cōgregation of Gods faithful to extēd it selfe no further thē their doctrine the Popes vsurpatiō doth goe For they cannot prove that ever those regions heard of the name of the Romane Bishop vntill this last age if now they doe or have lately done This thē we grant vnto you that Christ Iesus hath evermore a Church that variously dispersed vnder the cope of heavē not boūded within narrow precincts as that of the Iewes was The goodly titles also which in the word are givē vnto it are ever true in respect of the purity of religiō but especially for the fundamental points which finally cōcerne salvation And they are also as true for the visible glory of the church in time of peace the free course of the Gospel but are not perpetually without interruption to be vnderstood for the patent extent of the same that gloriously apparātly to be in any one countrey of the world as the defenders of the Romane Hierarchy would chalenge to themselves T. HILL FOR before the comming of the Messias the people of the Iewes many others also in other Lands which were of the Iewish Religion vvere in some sorte farre from the bondage of the Devill but since his comming both Iewes and Gentiles and almost all Nations Tribes and Kingdomes have bin ever in Lucifers thraldome vntill this our age in which Luther came to expell Lucifer and to ridde all the world out of his captivity And so the passion of our Redeemer availed little or nothing at all for the space of these fifteene hundred yeeres for a thousand yeeres together hee was so farre from drawing all vnto him as hee said hee would do that he drew not so much as one person that any mā can name And in Ioh. 12. our Country there of England it is most manifest that all were Papistes without exception from the first Christening thereof vntill this age of King Henry the eight G. ABBOT 9 YOV labour to proove that if you bee not the Church the Devils dominion since Christes time hath bin larger then ever it was before And your reason is that before the comming of Christ the Iewes and other of the Iewish profession in other lands were in some sort free from the bondage of the Devil which is true in all those who by the eies of faith did foresee the birth life death of the Messias did beleeve on him reputing him their Redeemer as 〈◊〉 Iob did call him but since his manifestation say you Iewes Gentiles almost all Nations Tribes Kingdomes 〈◊〉 Iob. 19. 25. have bin ever in Lucifers thraldome vntill this our age in which Luther came to expell Lucifer c. I wōder that you can suffer the name of Luther to passe so quietly without some egregious contumely but keeping it for him you only stay it a while anon he shall have it But being heere in the heigth of that argument which above all other pleaseth your side and the very rehearsing whereof as you woulde make your doating followers beleeve doth make vs all o Campian Ration
3. looke pale you amplifie your former proposition that if this be yeelded vnto Christs passion availed little or nothing at all for fifteene hundred yeeres but for a thousand yeeres hee vvas so farre from drawing all vnto him that he drewe not so much as one person that any man can name This is spoken like a man of some mettal indeede by this shal your disciples know how to trust you hereafter But as if yet you had deserved but one end of a sharpingstone and meant to have the rest with you before that you depart you tel vs that in our own couÌ„try there of England which whether you speake with some contept or no your selfe can best discover it is most manifest that all were Papists without exception from the first Christening therof vntill this age of King Henry the eight You are a blessed companion a man may beleeve much vpon your word Doubtlesse you perswade your selfe that all who should reade your booke would be madde or drunke or senselesse or else you must thinke that they would admitte and admire you for a singular lyar Besides that of Antiquitie the vvritings and testimony of your owne men will convince you in this to have neither wit nor shame VVe make it good against you that the thousands and ten thousands of the servants of God in the Primitive Church knew at the first nothing and afterwards but little of your blasphemous Popery and that not in the mainest points And albeit in processe of time superstitioÌ„ as it was p 2. Thes. 2. 3. 1. Tim. 4. 1. 2. Pet. 2. 1. foretold did by little and little creepe in yet in all ages God had his Church of such as did not spotte their soules with your horrible contammations And we maintaine it that in our owne lande there were testimonies most luculent of such as detested the AntichristiaÌ„ pride other loose behaviour of the Romane Clergy both in doctrin manners served the Lord after the prescript of his owne word as now we do endevor to do If you know not this M r. Doctor you have reade but little so in some sort we question your scholarship or else you have reade it and so wee question your conscience But vvee vvill hope the best that it is your ignorance although these present propositions and many other in your booke doe give vs great occasion to suspect your honest conscience Your owne men will be ashamed that you talke in this fashion as anon you shall perceive But I follow you a while T. HILL AND so the Protestants affirme of other Countries boldly say Luther in postil Ger. 1537 part 2. fol. 141. that vntill this age the Gospell lay in the dust was hiddeÌ„ vnder the bench and Christ was vnknowne Which to say as the Protestants must needes say and blush not to say indeede is meere madnes and flat infidelitie and a plaine denying of Christ and no small establishment of Mahomets Religion For the Protestantes and Mahumetanes agree in this that the Church which Christ founded fell some five or sixe hundred yeeres after his ascension into most horrible errours and then say the Turkes the Angell Gabriel was sent from God to Mahomet to teach him hovve hee shoulde reforme the saide Church because it would not stande with the wisedome and goodnesse of Almightâ—… God to suffer his Church to vanish avvaie through errours and superstitions vvithout sending in time to reforme it And in this out of doubte the Turkes have farre greater reason then the Protestantes have vvhich Protestants by their doctrin make Christ the most simple most improvident Lavve-giver that ever was in the vvorld For neither Plato Solon Lycurgus nor any other Lavv-maker vvhosoever was so simple and improvident as to fashion and plant a Common-wealth which before it were vvell setled should vanish away and come to nothing having no sufficient meanes to prevent errours and such abuses as would ever throvve their Lawes destroy their CmÌ„on wealths And therfore if Christ bee God the holy Bible true the Religion of the Papists must needes be that Religion which he ordained and left to all generations and consequently the onely true and right Religion G. ABBOT 10 SInce by your last fore-going wordes it hath appeared to bee your profession in your owne person to speake largely it is most probable that to the vttermost you will racke and pervert the speeches of other There is neither Luther nor any other ProtestaÌ„t so absurd as to say according to that which you would intimate heere that there was no Church till of late that the Gospell was absolutely hidden or Christ simplie vnknowne vntill their daies For we well vnderstand teach coÌ„trary-wise that in the Primitive Church plentifully afterward alwaies more or lesse in some parts of the world or other there were the Elect of God who groning to behould the common errours of their age did strive to beleeve and live after the rule of the Scriptures But the speech of Luther of vs in that behalfe is comparative that in comparison of that which it should bee or that which had bin not long after the Apostles or in respect of that which the Lord hath of late reveiled or of that which by the faithfull might have bin wished the Gospel had not for some later ages so free a course and Christ was not so ordinarlly vnpollutedly taught but the Bible lay much neglected and was cast aside in comparison of other bookes And while we acknowledge this we need not to blush neither is it madnesse in vs but q Act. 26. 25 the words of truth and sobernes as Saint Paule said in a like vniust accusation nor yet infidelity or denying of Christ or the establishing of Mahomets Religion Heere you heape vp many wordes but are not able to prove the least part of your owne Propositions wee must therefore give you leave to say much conclude nothing Your vniust imputatioÌ„ that not only in this but in diverse other matters we ioyne with the Turkes you borrow of Doctor Gefford who no lesse slaunderously then crakingly preteÌ„deth to do great things in his Calvino-Turcismus The maliciousnes wherof is already displayed and the crime returned by a learned r D. Sutliv in Turco Papismo man vpon the Papists themselves It is to be hoped that the Authour thereof will either in time repent him and turne to grace or receive the reward of his blasphemous speeches against Christs Religion his venimous revilings against his naturall Prince country In the meane while he may looke to the clearing of his credit from the accusations of father Parsons s Parsons manifestation cap. 1. 7. who describeth him to be very ill qualified no better theÌ„ a fire-braÌ„d in kindling dissension eveÌ„ among the English fugitives of the Romane Colledge But for our parts know you ô the whole rable of the Romish generatioÌ„ that vvee
time doe depend vpon him 12 And that it may be seene what reason we haue of this our assertioÌ„ we first shew that the estate of the faithful was frequently so before the coÌ„ming of Christ. For when it lay as hid in some few persons within the single families of the old Patriarkes before and after the flowd what great boast could there be made of it Nay when the Common-wealth of the Iews was much setled into what straights was it brought when David complained c Psal. 12. 1. Helpe Lord for there is not a godly man lest for the faithfull are failed from among the children of men this being spoken as it is most probable in the daies of Saul after the death of Samuel and the d 1. Sam. 22. 18. slaughter of the Priests How was it even in Iudah and HierusaleÌ„ when Esay cryed out that the e Isai. 1. 5. 6. whole head is sicke and the whole heart is heavy from the soale of the foote vnto the head there is nothing whole therin the estate of the Church being then most miserable and all depraved not only in manners but in religion Idolatry beeing plentifull as is manifest by the words in the same vision f vers 29. for they shall be confounded for the Okes which yee haue desired and yee shall be ashamed of the gardens which yee haue chosen which intendeth the trees and pleasant places where they vsed their superstitions Call to minde the daies of leremy when he said g Ier. 5. 1. Runne to fro by the streetes of Hierusalem and beholde now and know and inquire in the open places therof if yee can finde a man or if there be any that executeth iudgement and seeketh the truth and I will spare it And those of Ezechiel testifying in this sort I h Ezech 22. 30. sought for a man among them that should make vp the hedge and stande in the gappe before mee for the land that I should not destroy it but I found none These things were said of Iudah and Hierusalem where alone at that time was that Church which was the Israelites for their grievous sinnes being long before caryed away into captivitie You may adde to this if you wil the complaint of Micah i Micah 7. 1 We is me for I am as the Somer gatherings and as the grapes of the vintage there is no cluster to 〈◊〉 my soule desired the first ripe fruites The good man is perished out of the earth and there is none righteous among men they all lie in waite for blond every man â—…teth his brother with a net If the Priests people had not almost generally gone astray and the whole face of the visible Church had not seemed to be defaced would these Prophets thus haue particularized that one godly man was not left that one was not to bee founde who had not declined from truth 13 We doubt not but in those times the Lord had many faithfull ones in secret as he had seaven thousand in Israell when k 1. King 19. 18. Rom 11 4. Elias lived of whom neither the enemies of the truth nor scant that Prophet did take any notice The l Ezech. 9. 4 Apoc. 7 3. marke in the foreheade is sometime knowne to fewe but onely to him who imprinted it there yet this is a good holde for the Elect m 2. Tim. 2. 19. The Lordknovveth who are his But vpoÌ„ what might those who were Gods secret chosen out wardly build when diverse times the Princes and people had corrupted their waies and the Temple it selfe was polluted and made a sinke of Idolatry For wee find that things stood vpoÌ„ those termes in the daies of Manasse vvhen in the house of the Lord even that house whereof the Lord had saide n 2. Reg. 21. 4. 5. In Hierusalem will I put my name he built profane altars and in the two courtes of the house of the Lord he built altars for all the hoste of Heaven Iudge where in those daies was the glory of the visible church or where it was a pretty while before that wheÌ„ the Priest o 2. Reg. 16 11. Vriah was as ready to set vp in the teÌ„ple an altar after the fashioÌ„ of that which was in Damascus as the King Ahaz was ready to coÌ„maÌ„d it And then the Prince Priests coÌ„spiring there was scaÌ„t any kind of grosse Idolatry which was not pleÌ„tifully coÌ„mitted Ahaz himselfe making p Vers. 3. his son to goe through the fire after the abominations of the HeatheÌ„ And least it should be thought that the people at least did amend somewhat which was amisse in the very next Chapter it is witnessed in generall q 2 Reg. 17. 19. Yet Iudah kept not the coÌ„mandements of the Lord their God but walked according to the fashion of Israell which they vsed And by most probability this outrage vnder r Isa. 1. 1. Ahaz was the tune against which Esay so inveighed in the visioÌ„ before remembred These things are so plaine that the greatest pillars of the Papacy caÌ„not deny theÌ„ therfore they are forced to another shift as the Rhemists wheÌ„ they say s In Rom. 11. 4. that there is a great differeÌ„ce between the Christian Church the Iewes ours resting vpoÌ„ better promises then theâ—…s which is a very poore evaâ—…ion in as much as every Divine may knowe that there bee as large and many promises that the Church of the Iewes should last vntill Christs appearance in the flesh as there be that the CoÌ„gregatioÌ„ of Gods Saints shal coÌ„tinue among the GeÌ„tiles vntil the day of IudgmeÌ„t And saving only for the time of the Babylonish captivity there was one set externall place of Gods emineÌ„t service that is the TeÌ„ple at IerusaleÌ„ supported with such words s Psal. 132. This is my rest for ever heere will I dwell c. t 2. Chr. 33. 4. In IerusaleÌ„ shal my â—…me be for ever she like wherof throughout al the coÌ„tinuance of the new TestameÌ„t is not warrantable out of the word for any one place whatsoever No it caÌ„not so much as superficially be maintained out of the Scripture that Rome it selfe hath any such promise but rather out of the RevelatioÌ„ of S t. Iohn there are many substaÌ„tial matters which make to the contrary 14. But because by the stroÌ„g shot of truth they be beateÌ„ froÌ„ the bulwarke of the Iewish Synagogue fly to the next hold of the later TestameÌ„t let vs follow theÌ„ thither WheÌ„ our Saviour Christ was borne for the most part afterward till hee was baptized where shal we coÌ„ceive was the visible Church The Scribes and Pharisees possessed al the shew they were no better theÌ„ u Mat. 23. 24 blind guides of the blind The x 2. Mach 4. 8. 24. c. 11. 3. Ioseph de bel Iud 4. 5 lib. 5. 9. Priest-hood was long before and after bought sold in
vnsought to procure glorie to that which was in it selfe very vnglorious Their care therefore was to convert the eies of all persons on their externall hewe which was marveilously adorned and garnished to the sence with their 〈◊〉 Crosses set vp or caried before some Prelates with the triple Crowne Praefat. Catalog Testium veritatis of their Popes the redd hattes of their Cardinals the precious attire of some in their Churches their prodigious apparel abroad the diverse-couâ—…oured coules of their Monkes such singing and chauÌ„ting with Organs such ringing of Belles such trimming of Images many more such sensible matters as that neither the Iewes nor the GeÌ„tiles had the like And amoÌ„g all this if true Religion in diverse were present it is not to bee marveiled at if she were scant seene or if no notice were takeÌ„ of her for her poore vntrimmed or vngarnished hewe for her naked simplicity and vnpainted integrity It was the commendation given to Solâ—… beloved by vvhome the Church is represented that the Ps. 45. 13. Kinges daughter is all glorious vvithin her bevvtiâ—… consisting of puritie in faith veritie in doctrine severenesse in behaviour innocencie patience and such like spirituall complementes And these are as much contemned in others by the Antichristian rabble as they are neglected in themselves vvhereas their externall pompe on the contrarie side is as much despised by the LORD as it is magnified in their fleshly and carnall imaginations And thus I ende this matter hoping that if any Reader thinke that I have beene to long in this Chapter hee will remember the waight of that which hath beene handled and a recompence shall bee made in some other Reasons following vvhere I am not enforced to the large handling of the question then occurrent THE SECOND REASON The name of Catholikes T. HILL NO man can iustly deny but that they who have ever holden the name of Catholikes and have bin knowne thereby were vndoubtedly of true Religion for that they had ever on their side the Scriptures Miracles Fathers Councels Martyrs and for that every one which was against them was ever accounted reputed for an Heretike And the same Catholikâ—… were ever taken as the trunke or as the body of the tree and all others bearing the name of Christians as branches or boughes cut of the same tree Now all the world knoweth that whoseever in any age vvas a member of the Romane Church and vnder the obedience of the high Bishop thereof hee was ever taken for a Catholike so tearmed although in these our daies it hath pleased the Protestants to call such by the name of Papists which indeede is all one with the name Catholikes for that it signifieth such as follow and embrace the doctrine of that Church which hath for her head vnder Christ the Pope And it is not amisse as Chrysostome saith to be named of them vvho governe the Homil. 33. in Acta Church in Christes steede so that they take not their name of any particular man as Heretikes dâ—…e G. ABBOT BY this little which is already passed every man may conceiue that Master Doctor Hill is desirous to write a booke for I dare not saye make one for feare of slaundering him and resolving that the ground of all his â—…ong should bee taken from Master Bristowes Motives he coulde not vvell for very shame beginne as Bristow beganne least at the very entraunce into this his renouned labour he should be deprehended to take vp the most part of his ware on trust Vsing therefore in the front some little simple cunning to goe farther of he with some change borrowed the matter of his first Chapter a Brist 37 45. Motive out of the 37. and 45. Motiue of the other but not willing to trouble himselfe any more in that painefull sorte to seeke farre of his fingers presentâ—…â—…itched to bee doing with somewhat neerer hand and therefore for the slender substance of his second Reason hee goeth fairely and readily to the b Câ—… 1. 3. first and thirde Chapter of his good Maister Bristow and scambling somewhat of his owne in from those two hee patcheth vp all the â—…est Hee hoped that the former being not so much disguised as trans-placed shoulde haue covered all which followed and if that at the first had beene clenly caryed all which commeth after woulde haue beene the safer vnder the protectâ—…on thereof There is or hath beene some what in the world which thinketh all well if the heade of it selfe bee hid although the whole body doe lye out to bee seene If you knowe not what that is 〈◊〉 imagine it to bee Caligula the Emperour vvho albeit in great thunder and lightning as c Sueton in Caligula 51 Suetonius reporteth he would wholy runne vnder his bedde for feare yet if it vvere but a little clappe or flash he would winke with his eies and hide his head alone and then he thought all his body out of perill But for this borrower vpon Interest his body lyeth open to vs searching for it and the head although both winking and hooded hath not beene hid And now take vs with you I pray you 2 Every wise one can deny and that most iustly that such as haue desired to ingrosse the name of Catholikes appropriating it to themselues and yet haue taken no farther care but titularly to be are it as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 râ—… as Mâ—…ns 〈◊〉 noâ—… 〈◊〉 cannot rightly make challendge to retaine possesse the Orthodoxe faith but that the Divine Scriptures true and approved Miracles authenâ—…icall Fathers Oâ—…cumenicall Councels and Christes Martyrs may be as suâ—…e from such counterfeites as light is from darkenesse and men shall not bee Heretikes but Godâ—… good servants who vpon sufficient ground do stand against them The true Church is indeedâ—… the Lordes Vine the tree of his delight a more precious plant then anye was in Paradise but those who beare d Apoc. 3 1. a 〈◊〉 to liue yet are deade as it was said to the Angel of the Church of Sardis are to bee accounted no better then dead boughes or rotten braunches vntill they see their owne errour and there-vpon repent And all the vvorlde knovveth that vve may vse your phrase which you borrow of Master e Appendix to the quodlibets in the margent Parsons or of the Fâ—…ench 〈◊〉 le monâ—… that hovvsoever in times past vvhile Rome kept the Apostolike faith a man vâ—…ted to the same profession mighte bee called a Catholike not because simplye and absolutely hee applyed himselfe to the men of Rome but by reason that â—…ointelye and together vvith them hee accepted the Beleefe of the Vniversall Church yet novâ—… one conforming himselfe to the practise of that Cittie to the Decrees of the Popes to the Canons of the Tridentine Councell doeth meâ—… to bee tearmed a Cacolike an Heretike an enemy to the Church an adversarie of CHRIST a vassall of Antichrist But vveâ—… are contented to
giue them a milder appellation of Romanistes and Papistes or in Lâ—…in Pontifiâ—…ij because they fetch their Dictates and Oracles from Rome and more respect the voice of their Pope then the voice of Almightie God they not sparing to thrust that miserable man into Christs place and to make him not so much a ministerial aâ—… 〈◊〉 monstrous head of their vn-Catholike Congregation And since the name of Papists doth so please the that in the former Chapter they â—…ssume it and in this Chapter they 〈◊〉 it giving reason vvhy they shoulde haue it as beeing all one vvith their pretended Catholikes wee will not envy it them but vvith good liberty they may take it Neither shall they neede to trouble themselues so farre as to cite Saint Chrysostome for the ratifying of it His words are these f Homil. 33 in Acta But if we wil also haue the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of any man it is not as from the beginners of heresies but as from those who are rulers â—…ver vs do governâ—… the Church The reason of which speech in that reverend Father I cannot hastily gesse at since wee finde not that in or before his time the Christians were called by the name of any of the Rulers over the Church not Petrians noâ—… Paulians nor any such name Only his owne adversaries tearmed theÌ„ who did sticke close vnto him g Soâ—…omen lib. 8. 21. Iâ—…ita his proper name being Ioannes and the appellation of 〈◊〉 beeing afterwarde given vnto him as a Cogâ—… for his eloquence In which respect it is probable that for the defence of himselfe and those which followed him in the truth he did vse the words before cited T. HILL BVt yet the Catholikes are not called Papists but only of a few Lutherans in Germany and of some other their adherentes in other countreyâ—…â—…ere about for in Greece Asia Afrike and in the Inâ—…s as iâ—… Italy Spaine Sicily and in other countreyes of Europe the 〈◊〉 of Papists iâ—… vâ—…terly vnknowne The name therefore of Papists is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vsed but only of a few and never heard of before Luther 〈◊〉 for that hee coulâ—… not call them after the proper name of any one man because there was nevâ—…r any such in the Church which â—…ther brought vp any new doctrine or changed the Religion of his Predecessours G. ABBOT IF you would you might quickly know that names are given for distinction sake wheÌ„ those persons to whom the names belong are to bee distinguished from a generall sort they haue names more generall but when from a speciall comprehended in their own generall they are to haue appellations more special In Greece if a man had beene disposed to put a difference betweene one that was learned and the vulgar vnlearned people it had been a good note of distinction to say he is a Philosopher But when the question grew betweene several Sects their opinions then for more particular difference it was not enough to say that Diogenes was a Philosopher but he was a Cynick such a one was an Epicurean another a Peripaâ—…eticke this an Academike that a Platonicke In some sence it is enough to say that in the yeare 1588 her Maiesty of England had against the Spaniard a campe of so many thousand English resolute meÌ„ religious and well appointed but when there is question of particulars in that campe then the Oxford-sheere men had those Captaines the Wilt-shire men these and their colours were several So if in India or Asia the opposition must be betweene the Infidels or Mahumetans on the one side and the servants of Christ of what sort soever they be on the other side it is enough to say in generall thus or thus do the Christians But if there be occasion to particularize any thing then the Christians in Spaine or those in Germany are thus and thus affected VVhen speech is of the doctrine of Mahomet opposed to Christianity the name Mahumetane will comprehend the Persian and his subiects the Turke and his vassals the kings of Argier Tunis and Marocco and all that are vnder them But when we talke of the difference in Mahomets profession betweene the Turke and the Persian vvhich hath on either party cost much bloud we say the Persian thus holdeth the Turke beleeveth thus Wheresoever in Christendome there is disagreemeÌ„t in ReligioÌ„ some holding for the Pope and some other against him there the name Papist is frequent this is not only in Germany but God be praysed for it in Norway and Sweden and Denmarke in Polonia in Fraunce England Scotland the Low Countryes whersoever else the Gospell is knowne either openly or secretly Yea in Italy Spaine and Sicily not only the name of Papistes but the whole doctrine of Popery woulde quickely come in question were it not for your bloudy Inquisition or cruell massacring otherwise of such as bend not that way And yet they be not able to extirpate Gods truth As for the Greekes they loue you not neither like of your Religion and Asia Africa and the Indies knowe very little of our differences in Profession vnlesse it bee by the Christians themselves and that onely heere and there as at Aleppo peradventure or some other Marte towne except you vvill name a fewe creekes or corners of Africa and the East Indies where the Portingales have incroched or those partes of the VVest Indies where the Spaniards have devoured vp almost all the olde inhabitants and planted themselues and to aske of these Portingales and Spaniards whether they bee ought but Catholikes is not to aske a mans felow but to aske a mans selfe whether he be a theefe or no But surely the Infidels or Turkes or Greekes do neither call you nor know you by that name And if Luther were the first who gave you that title of Papiste which pleaseth you so much you are behoulding to him for fitting you so right not that you might not lustly have bin so called before But hee having occasion to display your impiety to the full and God inableing him with learning and knowledge as also with spirit and wit for that purpose hee gave you a name most sutable to your nature which is the truest vse of appellations and names It very well agreeth with you for if Christians be those who harken vnto Christ and are directed by him you may well be Papists who depend on the onely voice and direction of the Pope T. HILL WHereas 〈◊〉 Heretikes have â—…ver take their names of some one who began that Havesy as the Nestorians of Nestorius the Pelagius of Pelagius Lutherans of Luther Calvinists of Calvin c. And although Luther tearmed them Papistes yet knevve hee so vvell in his conscience that they ever had beene and ought to bee called Catholikes as that he caused his followers to change their Creede in saying I beleeve the Christian Church and not I beleeve the Gatholike 〈◊〉 Mo. 1. Church for feare least they should be thought to
meaning that of Saint Austen may be The Christiā faith i De moribus Eccles. Cathol lib. 1. 18. is not any where but in the Catholike discipline or instruction vnto which sence vse ordinary custome hath now brought the word Even so they are most farre from it For while they strive about the name they have lost the thing they keepe the shel but have parted with the kernel while they lay hould on the Candle-sticke some other is runne away with the light Their case is like that of the kings souldiours of k Socrat. l. 7. 20. Persia who keeping the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or Immortales were wel proved to be otherwise whē by the Roman armies they were distressed slaine shewed to be mortal Let thē lay aside these verbal titulary gloses make plaine out of the Scripture that they maintaine the same faith which Christ and his Apostles taught then they do somewhat But they are fallen from it yea from the sound profession which was in the daies of the Fathers Doctors of the Primitive Church therfore that which was true of their times is not communicable now to Popery No not that of Saint Austen whervpon they have a maine desire to fastē The l De vera Religione cap 7. Christian Religiō is to be held by vs the cōmunion of that Church which is Catholike and is named Catholike not onely of her owne friends but also of all her enimies For wil or nil the very Heretikes favourers of schismes when they speake not with their owne but with strangers they cal the Catholik church nothing els but the Catholike church For they cannot be vnderstood vnlesse they distinguish her by that name wherby she is called of al the world This was spoken of the whole nūber of Christians in the world which embraced the right faith not of the Romane Church onely And those who nowe are devoted vnto Rome doe as much differ from the puritie and integrity of their olde predecessours as Babylon doth differ from Sion Then in oppositiō to Heretikes which were but in corners and fewe places the faith which either Rome or any right Christian citty helde might be called Catholike but nowe that which the Pope maintaineth may it selfe bee reckoned no better then Hereticall perfidiousnes which the farther it is spred the worse it is with Gods flocke 9 To set them therfore straight by bringing thē from such vizards painted shewes to the matter it is not any name wherevnto men are directed for finding out the truth but m Ioh. 5. 39. Search the Scriptures saith Christ for in them you thinke to have eternall life and they are they which testifie of mee And as they testifie of Christ so do they also of his Spouse as we find in diverse of the ancient Fathers Cyprian saith n De Lapsis Hee is not ioyned to the Church vvho is separated frō the Gospell He who beareth the name of Origene on the Canticles o Homil. 3. A good purpose and the beleeving of right opinions doth make a soul to be in the house of the Church But S t. Chrysostome or the Auctor of the Imperfect worke vpon S t. Matthew doth yet speake more plainely p Homil. 49. He who will know what is or which is the true Church of Christ whēce should he know it but only by the Scriptures The Lord therfore knowing that in the last daies there vvould bee so great confusion of things doth therfore command that the Christians which are in Christianity being willing to receive the firmenes of a true faith should flie to no other thing but to the Scriptures Otherwise if they looke to other things they shall be scandalized and perish not vnderstanding vvhich is the true Church By which our Romanists may see that it is not a naked name nor any other matter of all that vncertaine rabble which the writer of this Pamphlet heereafter subioyneth that can bee our direction which is the Church or where is the truth but only the holy Scriptures And as Chrysostome hath q Homil. 33. in Act. If any agree to thē he is a Christian if any fight against them hee is farre from this rule The word of the Lord is the sure foundation he who buildeth on any thing besides this setteth his house but vpon the r Mat. 7. 26. sand and while he thinketh that he standeth for the Faith and for the Church he is enemie to both as those were to whom Leo sometimes Bishop of Rome wrote thus s Leo Epist. 83 ad Episcopos Palestinos you thinke that you deale for the faith and you goe against the faith You are armed in the name of the Church and you fight aganist the Church Let him who will farther be satisfied in this point reade what a learned man hath written vpon this Argument that s Ioh. Rainold Thes. 5. The Church of Rome is neither the Catholiks Church nor a sound member of the Catholike Church and if he bee not obdurate hee shall never neede to doubt farther in that behalfe t In praefat De triplici hominis officio UUeston a most vaine-glorious but shalowe fellow at Doway hath vaunted that if he had leysure he would beate that servant of God to dust I feare he wil never have leysure to grapple with him vnlesse it be heere and there to skulke out at some hole or corner and runne backe againe I meane heere and there snatch a saying of his falsely alleaged vnconscionably perverted as already he hath done But if hee bee the man that hee pretendeth to bee and I may request any thing of him let him first begin directly to answere the Thesis before named and we shall by his cariage therein iudge what is his true strength I woulde have VVeston fall about this worke for it is of too high a pitch for my good Doctour Hill THE THIRD REASON Vnitie and Consent T. HILL THe Catholike Romane Religion being received by so many Nations in Africa Asia Europa and in this last age in both the Indies hath notwithstanding such variety of wits such diversitie of māners such multitude of tōgues lāguages such distāce of places such nūbers of matters to be beleeved yet ever kept Vnity Concord in such peaceable consonāt māner as never any one in Englādor Irelād which are the vttermost parte of the VVest-world dissented or disagreed in anie point of doctrine cōcerning faith frō him which lived in the vtmost partes of the East But whosoever they be or in what place or Region soever they remaine in al the world if they be Catholikes or Papists if you wil cal thē so they all have one Faith one Beleefe one Service one number of Sacraments one Obedience one Iudgement in all with other like points of Vnion and Vnity which maketh a geuer all Vniformity also in the peace
do that is put vp your pipes make no more noise Yet I cannot so leave you but put you in mind coÌ„cerning Protestants Puritanes that it is probable that the Controversies which then were by your slie secret coÌ„veiances were the more forwarded at the least you Romanistes did your best by hypocrites and other your naughty instruments to coÌ„tinue them For the practise of your religion being of late nothing else but mischievous policie your Emissaries were instructed at their comming into England to sooth both sides and to commend them that so they might persist in their opinions And heere I shall open to the vvorlde some thing of your cunning vvhich is not knowne to every body There g At Rhemes Anno 1579. are certaine instructions vvhich Doctour Allen in a longe continuated speech vvhich hee dictated to his auditours and they in vvriting tooke it from his mouth did bestovve on such Priests as vvere then to bee sent from the Seminarie in Fraunce into England And these vvere to informe them hovve they should deale vvith all sortes of people to pervert them from their faith Thus therefore hee advertiseth them If you chaunce to deale vvith a Puritane you must say vnto him Truely brother for you there is more hope then of these that be Protestants because they for feare of the Prince and the lawe are ready to say and beleeve any thing and therfore me thinketh they be Atheistes but for you there is more hope being either hote or colde If you deale vvith a Protestant tell him there is more hope of him then of such rash brained Puritanes because they with Religion have put of all humanitie and civilitie vvith all other good maÌ„ners Who would not thinke that for mischievous devises this head of Allens was soone after worthy to be covered with a Cardinals hat But by the leave of our Seculars who strive to magnifie him he did not learne this of Saint Peter but rather of Sir Nicholas Machiavel a man of their good acquaintance Heere with our Seminarie Preests both Protestants and Puritanes were for a purpose honest men I would that we had cause so to repute of thâ—…se Romanists 9 Now whereas you call the faith which we professe our Parliamentary Religion you are for that tearme behoulding to diverse of your good maisters For yoâ—… chiefe schoole-master Bristow longe since bestowed that phrase on vs intituling one of his Chapters h Brist Motiv 42. The Parliament Church and Parsons vvho coulde ever readilie enlarge an vntruth i Wardword ca. 4. saith that Peter Martyr and Maister Bucer at their comming into England in King Edvvardes daies vvere conditioned vvith to teach that Religion vvhich should bee established by the Parliament approaching It is vvell confessed by him that our Realme in that Kinges enteraunce was not so weake in the knowledge of Divinity that they needed to be guided by any from beyond the seas but they themselves could search the k Ioh. 5. 3. 9 Scriptures to sifte out what vvas the truth It vvas not so happie vvith that Conventicle at Trente whereas it seemeth all the learned men were so simple that they did nothing but almost verbis concepâ—…is from Rome which gave occasion to that meriment that the holie Ghost who should have bin President of the Councel was brought from Rome in a boxe But the Religion which was then and is now established in England is drawne out of the fountaines of the word of God from the purest orders of the Primitive church which for the ordinarie exercise therof wheÌ„ it had bin collected into the booke of common Praier by the paines and labour of many learned men and of mature iudgment it was afterward confirmed by the vpper and lower house yet not so but that the most materiall points were disputed and debated in the Convocation house by men of both parties and might farther have bin discussed so long as any Popish Divine had ought reasonably to say l Holinshed An. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 But there in the beginning of Q. Elizabeths raigne the Antichristian Bishops to their everlasting infamie to the perpetuall preiudice of their cause refused the disputation or conference and crying creake for sooke their cause in the plaine field knowing right well that when Popery must bee brought to the touch-stone of Gods word it will proove base and counterfeite And then it being intended to adde to Ecclesiasticall decision the corroboration of secular governemeÌ„t according to the auncient custome of this kingdome as appeareth by m An 20. 25 38. Râ—…gis Edvard 3 Record froÌ„ the time of K. Edward the 3. the Parliament which is the most honorable Court of Christendome did ratify the same That so all of all orders and degrees might be bound to serve the Lord of heaven not after their owne fancies but as himselfe had prescribed And that this heretofore hath bin the custome of good Princes to cal their Nobles and their people to ioyne with them for the establishing of Gods service every man may know who will but looke into the stories of the Bible For there it will appeere that n Iosuah 〈◊〉 2. Iojuah being olde minding as farre as in him lay to perpetuate the sincere service of the Lord to all succeeding generatioÌ„s did assemble all Israel their Elders their Heads their Iudges their Officers to give consent therto So did o 〈◊〉 Chron. 28. 1. David not onely minding to commend to all his subiects the succeeding of Salomon in the crowne after him but aboue all things pure Religion And was not this the course which Asa did take for the reforming p 2. Chron. 15 9. of those errours wherwith Gods service was intaÌ„gled when assembling all Iudah and Beniamin to Ierusalem hee did cause them by an othe of association and as in way of a stronge covenant to binde themselves to God yea and that vnder the paine of death to flie Idolatrie and to embrace true piety and devotioÌ„ The like might be saide of other Princes who were god ly And these meetings no doubt being such assemblies as our Parliament is or rather being some more generall matter hee who should have termed their conclusions a Parliamentary Religion might have bin reputed no better theÌ„ a scoffing enimy And so may you Doctor Hill be accounted and Bristow in like sorte but Persons over and aboue that may have the name of a slaunderer who can glose and invent any thing which may serve for his purpose as that is that P. Martyr and M. Bucer were indented with all to teach as the Parliament should decree implying that whatsoever it had bin they must have condescended vnto it This lying Iesuite can shew no letter no Acte of Record no testimony of semblaunce of truth to averre this his calumniation But the matter indeed was that the reformers of Religion heere intending to level all by the line of Gods word knew that those two
worthy men were so affected in al their teachings and therefore as also for their admirable learning iudgment they made choise of them before all the great Clerkes which were in Europe And that those who called them hither were not deceived in them the excellent monuments which they have lest in writing behinde them doe testifie to the world T. HILL THIS vnity of Catholikes and discord of Protestants most manifestly sheweth that as the Apostles were they for whom our Saviour prayed to his father was heard of him Holy father keepe them in thy name whom thou hast given me that they may be one as we also be one Iohn seaventeene so they of the Catholike Romane Religion be they for whom in the words following he prayed was heard Not for them doe I aske only but also for them which shal beleeve by their preaching in mee that all may bee one as thou father in me and I in thee that also they in vs may be one and heereof it necessarily followeth that they be of the true Church for that none but they observe and keepe the Unity which he obtained â—…or them of his heavenly Father G. ABBOT 10 THese texts did your maister q Motiv 27. Bristow cite this argument in expresse words did he frame to your handes gentle M. Doctor you might have done wel to have added some our place more of your owne reading But to answere you both togither this maketh nothing against vs for we ioyne in coÌ„sent for all material points of the substaÌ„ce of salvation not only with our selves but with all the faithfull and rightly beleeving which have bin in the world with the Patriarkes the Prophets the Apostles the Fathers of the Primitive Church and the Martyrs neither can you or the greatest Goliah of your side ever proove the contrary Touch any article of our doctrine or any conclusion which wee maintaine and wee will make it good against you Staphilus r Apolog. 〈◊〉 Staphil himselfe could cite it as the saying of Smideline that among the Lutherans and Zuinglians there is no variance of any waight or force touching any articles of our saith of Christian Religion This tale therefore of discord do you tell to your bleare-eyed followers who cannot discerne colours All right beleevers are satisfied for this matter But on the other side the agreement which is among you is but a conspiracie against Christs honour even such a combination as was betweene s Mat. 16. 57 Luk. 23. 12. Herode and Pilate Annas and Caiphas the Scribes Pharisees Priests people to bring our blessed Saviour to the crosse Your consent is not in God nor in his sonne Iesus but to robbe them both of their glory to bestowe it on your I doll at Rome You agree to keepe your Congregations in ignorance to proclaime your kitchin-warming Purgatory to set your Masses Pardons at sale to picke mens s Sparing discovery of Iesuites purses by your Iesuitical exercise to leade theÌ„ as bond slaues to hell this is it wherin you consent So that as one did once read Vanity for Unity in the Psalme Behold how good ioyfull a thing it is brethren Ps. 133. 1. to dwell togither in Vanity so your vnity is vanity your coÌ„sent is cousenning tobe guile God al good Christians so farre forth as you may The title of this your present Chapter might better have bin Vanity Cousenning theÌ„ Vnity Consent for you coÌ„spire to do evil eveÌ„ to betray the soules of meÌ„ redeemed with the blood of the everlasting covenant The text of Ieremy would well fit this your combination u Ier. 11. 9. A conspiracy is found among the meÌ„ of Iudah among the inhabitants of Ierusalem They are turned backe to the iniquity of their fore-fathers which refused to heare my words and they went after other Gods to serve them thus the house of Israel the house of Iudah have brokeÌ„ my covenaÌ„t which I made with their fathers T. HILL AND surely it cannot proceede but from the Holy Ghost that all Sacredwriters of the Catholike Romane Church although being Aug. lib 18. de civitat dei Cap 41. men of diverse Nations Times and Languages yet have so wonderfully consented agreed among theÌ„selves as we see they have done G. ABBOT 11 YOV would make your sily disciples beleeve that this propositioÌ„ of yours so fraÌ„dulently propounded is confirmed by S t. Austen whose words in the place quoted in your margeÌ„t are as much to your purpose as if a man being at Barwike should take S t. Michaels mounte in his way to goe see Powles church at LoÌ„don If you had but looked the title of that Chapter in Austen it would have told you that the authour doth there speake of the agreement of the Canonicall Scriptures amonge themselves And if you had read the Chapter you might have found the drifte to bee that whereas all the olde Philosophers in their opinions and writings dissented eche from other the pen-men of the Scriptures being the Secretaries of the Holy Ghost did not vary at all His words are these u Lib. 18. cap 41 de â—…v Dei To coÌ„clude our Authors in whom not without a cause the Canon of the Holy Scriptures is set bouÌ„ded God forbid that they should dissint among theÌ„selves in any respect Now wil you be so blasphemous as to ioyne your broken and barbarous writers your Schoole-men Dunces Friers with these Oracles of God for if you do not meane by your sacred writers of the Catholike Romane Church your Divines and teachers of the Popes rotten ReligioÌ„ you speake not to your owne purpose you abuse your Reader with aequivocation and your wordes as most Idle do proove nothing at all But doe your writers indeed of such diverse Nations Times and Languages so wonderfully consent as you speake of Belike you haue reade but a fewe of them or else you would see that many of their tales do hange togither as their x Matth. 26. 60. wordes did who came to witnes against Christ. I suppose you have heard of a certaine booke called the Sentences of Peter Lombard Now I pray you good Sir is there no where in the margent there Hic magister non tenetur Looke in the end of him as he was y Ex officina lacob Du-puâ—…s printed at Paris in the yeare 1573. there you may finde that the facultie of Divines at Paris have condemned for errours sixe and twenty severall doctrines avouched in the workes of that maister of the Sentences in the first booke foure in the second foure in the third three in the fourth fifteene Of these one was that brute beasts doe not receive the very body of Christ although it seemeth that they doe when they devour the Hoste after consecration And is it not to bee supposed that the Scholers of this great Clerk did follow their Rabbi in maintaining the
testimony and he saith that s Rom. 15. 19 from Hierusalem rounde about vnto Illyricum he caused the Gospell of Christ to abound And to take away all pretence of obiection he addeth that he preached the Gospell where s vers 20. Christ was not named least hee shoulde haue built on another mans foundation If these things be so plaine as no Christian can doubt of them blush and blush againe at such desperate audaciousnesse as maketh no conscience egregiously to faine T. HILL TRue it is that Heretikes have corrupted such as were Catholikes before but that they ever converted any Heathen Nation to Christianity can never bee shewed I know very well that Iohn Calvine to get glorie sent certaine of his Ministers into nevve-founde landes but I never coulde heare that any of them converted so much as one sily vvoman to their Gospell in those partes The trueth is their agreement in doctrine vvas so greate that one destroying anothers buildings they became laughing flockes to the Heathens and so vvere glad to depart with shame G. ABBOT 3 THAT Heretikes haue corrupted such as were weaklings or discontented persons is true and may well bee exemplified in your broode perverting diverse credulous and indiscreete folkes from their obedience to God and their Princes but they are not sounde Catholikes or vvell setled and grounded in the faith who will listen to you or any seducer And if there bee any heathen nation vvhich hath hearde of the name Christ by you and your polluted Christianity it is most certaine that it hath bin by Heretikes the servauntes and attendantes of the whore of Babylon beeing a hundred waies infected with heresie and the vvhole body of Popery where it differeth from vs being nothing else but a masse of abhominable heresie But vvhere-as you say that Calvine sent some of his Ministers into the nevve-founde lande if you vnderstoode your selfe in this which like a Parret you speake from other men and know not what it meaneth the t Io. Leriuâ—… in navigat in Brasil ca. 1 2 6. viage into Brasile in the yeare one thousand fiue hundred fifty fiue was the original worke of Villagagno a Knight of Malta who pretending himselfe to be religious seeing the persecution which at that time was vsed in France against Gods children vnder K. Henry the second gaue out in words that hee would search out a place in the newe-found VVesterne vvorld whither persecuted Christians might flie out of Fraunce Spaine and other countries And for this purpose hee had ayde of Chaâ—…llion that worthy Admirall of Fraunce who was afterward slâ—…ine at the u An. 1572. Massacre in Paris And whereas by his letter Uillagagno had made request to the Church of Geneva to send with him or vnto him diverse Ministers of the Gospell they at his entreary condescended therevnto and some went who as especially they desired to prepare a place for their afflicted country-men whereof at that time many were burnt for Religion so their next intendment was to vse their best meanes to convert the Barbarians vnto the faith of CHRIST And when diverse of the Ministerie leaving their countrie kinred and that estate which they had in Fraunce were come thither with those resolutions they never dissented in the least pointe of theâ—… doctrine But Uillagagno like a notable Hypocrite togither with a Popish Priest of his one Cointas who had before abiured Popery there as also the Generall voluntarilie had done relapsed to their vomite evill entreated their Ministers by all meanes that they could devise set the companie vpon a mutinie and forced such as lost not their lives there to returne to their country when they had scant spente one yeare in those partes and that full of vexation by reason of their Conductours perfidious falshood This was the reason wherefore that viage sorted to small purpose and not the discorde of the Ministers And this wicked practise did arise from the Cardinall of Lorraine who either in secret before the departure of Uillagagno or afterward by letters drewe him to Apostate from his faith â—…s Lerius who was there in presence and reporteth the specials of all that viage and their Generals vsage there doth amply remember And that this was the true cause of their returne wee neede not appeale to any of our men fince Costerus the Iesuite will tell it thus u The Calvinistes not many yeares agone Controver cap 2. did attempt to bring in their errours to the people of India and Peru but by the â—…ide of CHRIST and by the industrie of the Catholikes they were excluded Indeede the Cardinall of Lorraine be stirred himselfe in that businesse being so bitter an enimy to the Gospell of CHRIST that hee could not endure that the Frenchmen should have it at home or abroade least belike multitudes of them should have left their countrie and built Colonies elsewhere So he cared not what losse or dishonour the kingdome of Fraunce had so there might be no Sanctuary or refuge for those whome hee reputed heretikes dealing as honestly and faithfully therein as Steven Gardiner while hee lived and afterwardes other of the Cleargie did with Caleis in Queene Maries time which towne they vnderstanding to be the receptacle of many good Christians fled out of England for their conscience were so averse from regarding repayring and supplying it that the French discrying the weakenesse thereof by attempting it both sodeinely and subtilely afterward pursuing their enterprise fearcely did get it from the English Such was the blessed minde of that Machiavellian Cardinall whome GOD x Commentar Relig. Reip. in Gal. Lib. 13. remembred at the last suffering him by a colde which he had taken by going barefoote and whipping himselfe for his lascivious sinnes to grow first into a fever and then into a madnesse which sent him raving and foolishly speaking to receive his iudgement The Queene mother as ashamed that Ahitophel shoulde proove Nabal caused it to bee reported about the Courte that the man went to GOD in most sweete meditations but the other was so evident that every bodye laughed at the simplicitie of their devise who would have that covered which the Lorde had shewed of purpose that every ones y 1. Sam 3. 11. eares who heard of it might tingle T. HILL BVT who knoweth not that the Catholikes as they have converted all to Christianity that ever were Christians so in this age they have brought infinite numbers to the Christian faith in the East VVest Indies by the meanes and labours of the most happy and holy fathers of the holie Order of S t. Frauncis of S. Dominicke and of the blessed Society of Iesus which blessed Religious men in our owne Country there of England onely in regard of their sacred function are executed as Traitors And have not these I pray you their authority from Rome G. ABBOT 4 THE vanitie and vnwisenesse of this asseveration I haue plentifully shewed before
bringe a Spanish Princesse the Infanta into that throne vvhich by all righte divine and humane belonged to his Maiestie as the indubitate heire to the Imperiall Crownes of these kingdomes of England and Ireland This intendment of theirs is as cleere as the noone day by h Doleman Persons his booke of Succession by the vrging of the Studentes in the Seminaries to subscribe to the Spanishe title if it were but in blankes by the frequent charging of the Iesuites therewith in the late books of the Secular Priests their Assistants vnto all which the Authour of the Apologie and Manifestation doth not so much as faintly for a fashion giue the least denial We doubt not therefore but his most illustrious Maiesty will be circumspect against such vipers and that his Highnesse considereth the fruits of them and their doctrine in Fraunce the murther of King Henry the third the animating of Paris and so many great citties to rebellion against the puissant King nowe regnant the attempts of i sasuit cat lib. 3. 6. Peter Barrier and k Cap. 8. Iohn Chastell by the lesuites meanes to commit murther and parricide vpon his royal person besides all the doctrine which they haue of the want of Eâ—…ds to slay Kings whome they holde tyrauntes of the Popes ' power to excommunicate Princes and to absolve subiectes from the oath of their alleageance of all Cleargie men in a kingdome exempt from the chastisement and governement of the temporall or Civill Monarke and onely subiect to the Bishop of Rome the verity of which points hee may at large see who will reade that little but excellent treatise Le Fraâ—…c Disâ—…rs Their vow of blinde obedience to their Superiours their position of ordine ad Deum their rule of propter bonum societatis will inferre any varletry traiterousnesse vilainy or impiety in the worlde bee it whatsoever Lastly the experience which is had of them doth manifest that they are like the olde Pharises of whom l Antiquit. lib. 17. 3. Iosephus could say that they were aprowde generation and dangerous vnto Kings for they entred Polony and m Quodlib 3. 7. straight there followed vpon it a rebellion against their Soveraigne they haue beene the meanes that n Ies. Catec lib. 3. 16. Stephen Batori novve king of Poleland is thrust from his ancient kingdome of Sweden the whole life of the activer sort of them being nothing but a o Quodlib in praefat tampering in state causes and Princes affaires their felicity is to set the Realmes where they come into a combustion If then for these and the like reasons the King of Fraunce professing for the Romish faith hath by soleÌ„ne Edict banished these Iebusites out of his kingdome and that on paine of death and they are not harboured in his Realme but only in Burdeaux and Tholouse which is to be hoped will also shortly bee redressed is it to be wondered that our kingdome professing the reformed religion being England which of old could endure no wolues should abandon this lewde Society It might rather be reputed a singular weakedesse in so wise and vigilant a State as God bee praysed this is if there should not be provision made to keepe out such Caterpillers or rather Foxes and Beares who come to destroy the flocke and insteed of converting of countries wherof you speake intende the perverting of consciences and turning them from that due obedience which they owe to the Almighty God of heaven and to his Vice-gerent here amonge vs. It hath pleased the Lord long agone to open the eies of our Governours to see the drifts of these men and wee are to pray that their heartes may ever bee inspired to see the execution of such wholesome lawes that some may take the p Cant. 2. 15 Foxes the little Foxes which destroy the Uines that is to say such body-killing soule-murthering spiritual enemies who destroy many a weake womaÌ„ and vnadvised rash young man T. HILL I will not here speake of the infinite number of Miracles wrought by Catholickes in conversion of Countreys and namely of those which are now done in both the Indies by the holy Fathers aforesaide for that I reserve that matter for his proper place but I would advise you here diligently to weigh the sequele of the Assertion of the Protestantes howe that if Papistes be not true Christians and of the right religion then doth it necessarily followe that neither Spanyards nor Portingales nor Sardinians nor Sicilians nor Italians nor Germaines nor Transylvanians nor Hungarians nor Polouians nor Danes nor Flemmings nor Scots nor Irish nor English no nor any Nation vnder heaven had ever true Religion before Frier Luther maried Moune Bore before Iohn Calvin run away to Geneva before Peter Martyr with his Fustolugges came to teach at Oxford and before a number of such like good companions ledde only by sensualitie and carnall zeale dishodded themselues and became such spectacles to the world as every maÌ„ knoweth Which thing to affirme is flatly to denie Christ and all Christianity as I shewed in my first Reason G. ABBOT YOur mounstrous Miracles you put over to another Chapter and thither God willing I will follow you so that in good time you shal heare of mee The foolishnesse and ridiculousnesse of this your other assertion I have q Answere to the 1. Reason already manifested but heere you are disposed to commemorate the nations of Christendome although to small purpose well I wote vnlesse you would haue vs note that you put the Spaniards first and the English last For if you have named the French also the Bohemians Muscovits Graecians we must answere you that among these or so many of these as it seemed good to the divine Providence there was true Religion and yet the grosser sort of your Papistes had none of it albeit some touched with some smal staines of Popery did belong to Gods kingdome And these were not only before the birth of these excellent men whoÌ„ you name but in all ages since Christ his time VVherefore your bold talking heere is no better then idle trifling That Doctour Luther was a Frier and his wife a Nonne wil be easily granted vnto you but in a Christian mans vnderstanding what more preiudice is therin then that r Exod. 2. 10 Moses for a time was brought vp as the sonne of Pharaâ—…s daughter or that s Act. 23. 6. S t. Paule was a Pharisee or that s Luk 82. 3. Mary Magdalone was agrievous sinner or t Luk. 19. 1. Zacheus the maister of the custome It was no fault for u Gen. 19 12 Let to come out of Sodome neither is it to be blamed that any hasteÌ„ out of u Apoc 18 4 Babylon But the greese is that he a Votary did mary her a Votary which Campians malice so expresseth x Ration 3 dâ—…ec incesto 〈◊〉 votam Deo virginem fâ—…sset
that although he were willing to paint himselfe without he was quite rotteÌ„ within And whither for waÌ„t of his prety staruling pensioÌ„ froÌ„ Spaine after that illustrious foile he might not be much humbled in the heigth of his prowd thoughts it is hard to tel Such a maÌ„ner of man was one of the fathers of the Seminary 19 As for Persons the present Rector his mind is nothing inferiour to the others albeit his degree be in a ranke behinde him But that is his owne fault too for his b The copies of certaine discourses extorted fol. 116. fellowes here tell vs that it vvas reported heere in Englande that all the boyes at Saint Omars had conspired to make Persons a Cardinall and had vvritten such effectuall letters to the Pope for it that hee the Generall of the Iesuites and all his friendes in Rome vvere little enough to keepe him from beeing a Cardinall VVell his hearte for Englande is as good as any of his Predecessours c Answere to thinges coÌ„cerning him in the Apology Doctour Bagshâ—…vve sayeth directly that hee perswaded the Students at Rome that they should have at state and all for vvith state-medling they coulde but die and die they shoulde vvithout state medling if they were taken If vvee vvill not trust that Doctor as one professing some hostility toward him let his Greene-coate concerning the Earle of Leicester another Common-wealth of his touching another greate and vvorthy man that dead is speake in their masters behalfe His Doleman sheweth him to haue nothing in him but bastard English bloud And that is the more manifested by his labouring the Students in Spaine and at Rome to consent to the title of the Lady Infanta What affection he cariyed to our late most blessed Soveraigne his short but substantiall approving of the iudgement of Allen Sanders Bristow and Stapleton touching the Bull of Pius the 5. in his d Cap. 4. Ward-word doth declare It is also laid to his charge that he sollicited a man of e Quodl 7. 2 high place in this kingdome to be a close Pensioner to the late king of Spaine to further his invasision He f Apol. c. 12. challengeth to himselfe these bookes The reasons of refusall of going to the Protestants Churches the Epistle of persecution both in Latin and English the defence of the Censure against M. Charke and these shew that all his wits and study were then bent on the one side to supplant the religion that we professe but on the other side to defame the honour of his Prince and country and of all the chiefe officers of Iustice in the same and with such suttletics to steale away the harts of many subiects from them His resolutions g Solutiones 〈◊〉 P. in his pretended Cases of conscience as they are impious so are they most pernicious to the state But the lesse they are there to be wondred at since he openly laboureth in h 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1â—… his Apology to mainetaine falshoods and lying dissembling A quivocations with little lesse then blasphemy to our most holy Saviour His ManifestatioÌ„ hath many proper things in it as being that where he sheweth himselfe without a vizarde This is hee who hath had in Spaine and nowe hath at Rome the training vp of those vvho are and must bee our Seminarye Priestes the only Arch-traitour now remaining aliue and to be balanced by none vnlesse peradventure it is but peradventure D. Gifford may be the man I might adde to these as great men at Doway in their times Bristow and Stapleton The one sheweth himselfe a rebell in hart by his i Cap. 15. Motiues which booke D. Allen did allovv to the Presse And how far the other that is old chollerike bitter Stapleton the k Apol. c. 9. learnest man living of our Countrey if vve will beleeue Fa. Persons was engaged in these matters his manifold virulent aspersions scattered in his bookes against his naturall Prince and some personages of high worth do abundantly testifie Such are the teachers Readers and Governours of the Seminaries and such an honest man is Weston at Doway nowe if he be yet at Doway where no doubt they traine vp their Students in good meditations Which I may the rather say if that be true which l Colliar one of their owne company delivered to me to bee so of his own knowledge while he was there in D. Barrets time As our Students in our Colledges haue vsed to make verses and to fixe them vp on the skreenes or elsewhere publikely on the day of her late Maiesties comming to the Crowne so they had sometimes at Doway when they made verses in like sort whither on the day before named I do not remember In this case the invention of one of their gracious strudents was to speake of the three furies in hel Alecto Megaera and Tisiphone whose vertues when with his Poetry he had described hee addeth at last that there was nowe of late a fourth come in Furiarum Quarta whose description he maketh accordingly And this lewd devise was much commended by the Superiours there albeit he plainly designed her for whom by the laws of God man they vvere rather bound to haue spent their best bloud then that the least dishonourable thought concerning her should haue entred into their hâ—â—t And who will wonder that the fruites of such persons doe shew what the roote is whervpon they do sit We may adde to these things abroad the experience which wee haue had at home of Babingtons Somerviles Squires and such vngodly miscreants who incited by Ballard and other sent from the Seminary haue attempted most horrible treasons to the hazarding of the happines of this whole kingdome And were not our state blind if they could not gesse the minde of the souldiors by such captaines the disposition of such scholers by their tutours the affection of the Priests by such Superiours especially since they dayly saw in our owne land that such as had to doe with these emissaries and secret creepers did testifie that they had touched some m Eccl 13. 〈◊〉 pitch being quickly alienated if not in open action yet in apparant affectioÌ„ from therest of the Realme And might not all religious folkes haue groaned in their soules all good subiects haue lamented in their harts if some severe proviso had not beene made to restraine the audacious comming in and the ravenous dissipations of persons so intending mischiefe It should haue beene an vnrecompensable weakenesse to haue permitted such incendiaries to bring all to combustion and our magistrates in the meane time to haue stood by the houses of themselues their neighbours being on fire and to haue thought it a pretty thing to stand and warme themselues by the flame But they being inspired by a better spirit did make good wholsome lawes inhibiting the approaching of such dangerous guests or if they would not forbeare paying them the
it Afterwards it grew faster but the Greeke Church did balaÌ„ce it Mahomatise did emulate it GeÌ„tilisme did infinitly exceed it in the West true religioÌ„ had faut ours in theÌ„selues many but coÌ„pared with the Antichristian troupe but few now of late the vizard of her holines is pulled of a maine part of Chri stendoÌ„e do see that it is but a painted e 2. King 9. 30. Iezabel That some where it is tolerated we deny not but it may be where the f 2. Sa. 3 39. sons of Zarvia are too stronge for David or for other speciall reasons best known to the governours but of all likelyhood it is where the embracers of it haue learned to be so temperate as not to complot for desolatioÌ„ of those countries where they are tolerated vpoÌ„ a hope that those who are now perverted by errour may be converted to truth But our Princes haue learned to walk in the waies of g 2. King 18 Hezekiah Iosiah know that they are not coÌ„meÌ„ded by the holy Ghost who suffred the high places to stand in their dominions That EnglaÌ„d while she followeth the prescript of the God of wisdoÌ„ should think that she doth more wisely theÌ„ some other who are druÌ„keÌ„ with the harlots inchantments is no greater a fault theÌ„ that of Davids was who could say By h Psal 119 98 99 100. thy coÌ„maÌ„demeÌ„ts thou hast 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vviser thâ—… 〈◊〉 enimies And I have bad 〈◊〉 vnderstanding thâ—…n all my teachers And againe I vnderstand more then the auncient because I kept thy precepts The same obiection which you make was made longe agone by the proude Scribes and Pharisees that they thought one way and the simple i Ioh. 7 48 4â—… accursed people were of another minde For our Elders wee shall haue time to come to you toward the ende of this Chapter And what you saye of all the learned men of Christendome for so many ages togither is a Popish bragge for as before I have shevved there were men of singular learning vvho savve the horrible abuses of the Synagogue of Rome and mourning in their soules to behoulde them wrote against them taught against them prayed against them and many vtterly seperated themselues from the k Numer â—…6 â—…26 tentes of Core and Dathan labouring to keepe their conscience vndefiled although for so doing they endured contempt and torture and imprisonment losse of life Your owne bookes beare witnesse of them as formerly I haue shewed T. HILL AND I pray you tell me if an hearbâ—… should be presented to you to 〈◊〉 that all learned Phisitions for a thousand yeâ—…res togither haue iudged to her 〈◊〉 and onely some one or tvvo of later yeeres haue begun to teach the contrarie vvithout actuall experience whether it be so or no but onely by discourse and now argumentes of their owne braine vvould you abstaine to eate it or no Or if an action shoulde bee offered you there in England vvhich by all olde Lawyers iudgment of former times hath beene taken for highe treason Ipso facto and consequentlie losse of life and laudes though some nevver Lavvyers vvere of contrarie opinion that now it is not vvould you not looke tvvise before you did leape except you vvere out of your vvittes But in this other case although all auncient Divines and Doctours for about a thousand yeeres togither haue taught the Catholike Romane religioâ—… â—…ee true indeeds and onelye Fâ—…iar Luther a loose Apostata and Sir Iohn Calvinâ—… a seare-backe Priest for Sodoâ—…ye haue begunne in our dayes to teach the contrarie for feare of being punished by the Magistrates of the saide Catholike religion for vvicked and badde life yee vvill the Protestantes 〈◊〉 ouâ—… and cast at all and vvill hazard Heâ—… and all Etornity of tormentes thereon depending UUho vvill deny this to bee head-long and hare-braine dealing Surely this Vniversall consent of Christendome against two or three so 〈◊〉 â—…hours of novelties are more then sufficient to induce any 〈◊〉 of reason to looke about him and to consider vvhat hee doth and whether he may adventure his soule vppon such inequalitie of testimonies as this is betvveen tvvo or three Novellantes and twenty millions of holy and grave auncients no doubt 〈◊〉 West minster hall this difference of witnesses would 〈◊〉 vvith aâ—… equall and discreete Iudge or 〈◊〉 G. ABBOT 22 SImilitudes are familiar but if you had ever reade any thing touching the Principles of Rhetorike they are of no force at all where men haue to doe with a renitent Auditour of which sorte per adventure you may take vs bee But as learned Physitians as any who gaine saide it founde this that you speake of to bee Mithridate and an Antidote or especiall preservatiue against poyson And nowe there bee more then one or two who have studied this point and that not only for the Theorike but for the Practike also and their argumentes are not newe but fetched from the Patriarkes and Prophets and Apostles Our Physitians haue observed that rule of the l Diod. Siâ—… Antiquit lib 2 3 Aegyptians who in all their cures looked to their booke and by that they did heale or pronounce incurable Yours lefte the booke and thereby as they destroyed their patientes so it is to bee feared that after the manner of the Aegyptian Lavve they lost their owne liues for their labour And that which you mention concerning Lawyers is iust of the same quality for verie great Lawyers did differ about this title in question and then it appeered that those of our side did looke to the law-giver and had recourse to his words wheras your meÌ„ locked vp the booke and professed that they could say by heart so much as was expedient But there their memorie did faile them Novve as the former vvere out so such as came after and beleeved their blinde maisters vvere more out then their predecessours The Romish Dictatour tooke the advantage by this and finding that his best profitte was to bee his owne â—…arver and make lawes for himselfe added what hee would and intrepreted as hee list and if hee would goe astray wherevnto hee was most ready his pety-foggers must not question it but they must admire him and adore him since this stoode as an Oracle that if the m Gratianâ—… part 1. Distinct 40. Si Papa Pope should leade innumerable soules to hell with him hee must not bee capitulated with neither might the question bee once asked Domine cur siâ—… facis there was store of such Lawyers vvhen CHRIST came into the worlde but they had a n Luc. 11. 46. VVo by him denounced against them And yet when our Saviour turned all their constitutions vpside-dovvne and gaue newe interpretations of the Lawe one might before the people have vsed the same argument which is heere made All the great Clerkes the Scribes and Pharisees for so many ages haue taught you one way and this man teacheth you another
way whom therefore will you beleeve our Saviour woulde in this case haue bidden men looke to the Originall o Math 19. 8 from the beginning it was not so VVhen the Saracens possessed p Câ—…l Aug. eurio Sarrac Histor. lib 1. Granado and that parte of Spaine which is about it for seaven hundred yeeres 〈◊〉 if a Christian should haue come to haue pleaded the title of that Kingdome they might haue produced Lavvyers who should have advouched that for so many descents that time out of minde their Auncestors had enioyed it But Kinge Ferdinand who expelled them thence might better replye that the Christians had a more auncient righte vnto it that the Saracent were but encroacher and vsurpers and there were bookes of authenticall record vvhich vvoulde vvithout partialitie assigne everie man his ovvne Thinges goe much by opinion till truth bee displayed Hovve many learned men did erre in that conceite thâ—… a q Bodin Method cap 4 Svvâ—…nne before his death did singe most svveetelye The r Petr Martyr Dâ—…ad 〈◊〉 3 Castilians vvhen they came first into the VVest Indies thought it had beene poyson to have eaten of rosted serpentes and yet aftervvard they found it to bee most daintie meate VVhen matters for a longe space have beene mistaken and at last they be discovered it is no commendation to dwell in olde oversightes but it is best vvith advise to reforme them s Ad Pompâ—…ium Custome vvithout truth is aâ—…nesse of errour â—…aith Saint Cyprian Touching your Lawyers then vvee saye that if they take truth to bee treason they are more afraide then hurte And as for your Physitians they are but like the s 〈◊〉 Chron 16. 1â—… Physitians of Asa for while more trust is reposed in them then in GOD many a good patient dyeth vnder their handes That vvhich they reporte to be poyson would saue and restore the sicke oâ—…ll affected person 23 VVhen you haue a little raunged among Lawyers and Physitians because wee shoulde thinke that you haue heard of all the three faculties you returne to your owne profession and and there as a man who say all but indeede knowe little of auncient Doctours and Divines and smally acquainted with the monumentes of the Church you professe that for a thousand yeeres nothing hath beene â—…aught but the vn-Catholike Romane Religion till Luther and Calvines time vvhich is as true a speech as you are a truth-speaking man and that is never a vvhit all the Popes Prentice beeing bounde but to a lying occupation Your slaunders against these holy men are so well knovvne vnto vs that in respect of you wee thinke them rather to bee laughed at then to bee refured albeit in regard of other simple soules vvhome you vvoulde abuse vvee are otherwise minded VVhen our Saviour had longe before lived and dyed and ascended into heaven Iulian Libanius and Porphiâ—…y had inventions mough against him and hee coulde not escape vvithout that slaunder that hee was a t Augustin in Iohan. Tract 3â—… Magitian VVhen Narcissus a godly vertuous person lived hee was by three false witnesses speaking against him and vsing u Euseb Eccle Hâ—…stor 6. 8. grievous imprecations toward themselves if they spake not truth accused of a hainous crime It was constantly given out of u Socrat 〈◊〉 â—…0 lib. 2 1â—… Theodor 1 26 28 30 Soom 2 2â—… 22 2â—… Athansâ—… Apologâ—… Athanasius that hee was an adulterer a Necromancer a murtheâ—…r this was so assevered by the Aâ—…ians that although many did see Arsenius whoÌ„ hee was reported to haue slaine or caused him to bee made away yet they woulde scant beleeue their owne eles but it was not once to bee doubted but that by the meanes of Athanasius vvho intended to vse it in Coniuâ—…tion one of the hands of the saide Arsenius was cut off although he himselfe stood before them and had both his handes whole and vntouched Yea a harlot was brought face to face which chardged him to haue coÌ„mitted fornication with her yet shee was so farre froÌ„ knowing him that when another tooke on him to be Athanasius shee not being therein mistresse of her crafte chardged him to haue done that which shee purposed to lay on Atanasius Since these the like matters haue bin in times past it is no marveile that the Devill of late shoulde stirre vp Cochleus or Bâ—…lsec or Staphilus against two such lampes of the ChristiaÌ„ world as Luther Calvine were who made such breaches into his strongest fortresses and freede so many prisoners from him Hee whome you tearme an Apostata was no otherwise such a one for leaving your Babylon then Saint Paule might have beene saide to be for relinquishing the x Phil. 3 5 Pharisees whom a long time he had followed And whereas you call him loose his behaviour all his time was strict and severe industrious and studious in penning and preaching much The heathen y Orat pro M. Caelio Tully could haue toulde you that he who would be an Oratour must cut of all licentiousnesse yea his needefull recreations with his most entier friendes Iudge if Luther did not so who hath lefte remaining after him such volumes of bookes as few men in any age haue lefte more But hee rubbed the Pope to the quicke and a horse which is gawled will wince And it was another of his faultes that hee touched the Monkes bellies as z Carion Chrâ—…ucts a Melan. l. 5. Erasâ—… said and therefore blame not them their friends if they doe their best to lash him One while with a Lib 4. Chronograph Genebrardâ—… hee shall bee the grand Antichrist or the nexte member to him because Luther as hee saith in Hebrew maketh 666. yet by by afterward the b In Apoe 13. 1â—… Rhemists of their gracious bounty and singular integrity professe to discharge him and quitte him of that honour VVhile hee was a Frier at Witemberge hee was a man without exception passing towardly and learned yea fit to take the highest degree in that Vniversity that is to say a Doctourshippe in Divinity but since he came out of Sodome it is now writen of him that c Persons censure on M Charâ—…e before he was a Frier he was striken in a medowe with a thunderbolt and being so frighted hee put himselfe into a Monasterie And there aftervvard reading in the Church the Gospell of the thirde Sundaie in Lente of the deafe and dumme Devill throvvne out by CHRIST he sodainely fell downe vppon the pavement and the Devill cryed horriblie out of his mouth saying I am not I am not dumme I will speake yet vnto the vvorlde So shamelesse are men in their improbable detamations vvhen they once make it their summum bonum to drawe people after them they care not in what manner There is no measure of lying there are no boundes for vntruth whereof Luther hath vvell tasted if ever any experimented it for doing GOD good service
you would haue laid freely at them Dare you strangers and captiues and boyes and vpstart companions set your selfe against a million of wise men Princes and Counselours They should haue had your voice to haue gone to the fiery Furnace Doe you not pity your selfe when you reason in this fashion Among them that be wise pendenda sunt suffragiapetius quà m numeraÌ„da voices are to be weighed rather then to be numbred I can say no more vnto you but that when this is your best Divinity Lorde haue mercy vpon you Saint Austen would haue tolde you for o Epist. 19. all these and aboue all these we haue the Apostle Paule T. HILL NEither may the Protestants now at length glory in their great number as some of them haue done for that their Religion is there in England and in Scotland and some thereof in â—…aland and in the Lowe Countries and in some partes of Germany and a few of them in Fraunce Apol. Eccl. Anglic. for they never yet passed into Asia nor into Africa nor into Greece nor into many places of Europe much lesse into the Indies But indeede if you rightly scanne their doctrine you shall finde that your Religion ProtestaÌ„tine of England is no where in the world else and that English service contained in your booke of Common praier is vnknowne and condemned of all other Nations and people vnder the cope of Heaven So that in very deed the doctrine of your Protestantes is taught or received no vvhere but in England and the Puritant Doctrine of Scotlande the contrariety therof duely considered is no where but in Scotlande the Lutherane Doctrine taught in Denmarke is no where but in Denmarke and in a few places of Germany the Libertine doctrine taught in the Low Countries is no â—…here but in the Low Countries and the like may be said of other sectes G. ABBOT 26 YOV are mis enformed that the Protestants doe glorie in their great number they know that truth is truth be iâ—… in more or few As for M. Iewell whose Apologie you quote in your margent hee hath no such matter Onely where as it is obiected that our Religion overturneth kingdoms and governmentes hee answereth there vnto that there p Apol. Eccl. Anglican doe remaiue in their place and ancient dignitie the Kings of England Denmarke Sweden the Dukes of Saâ—…cony the Cunties Palatine c. This is to answere to an obiection by giving many instances to the contrary and not to glory of any multitude And if any other of our Church do note in breefe that the Gospell hath taken roote in some large nations that is to stop the mouth of the clamorous adversary and to satisfie the weake as also not least of all to praise God who so spreadeth the beames of his compassion but it is not to boast vainely as you ignorantly imagine Yet who doubteth but a good Christian may ioy in his hart exceedingly and thankfully expresse it in his tongue that many who sate in darkenesse may now behold the light and the sheepefold of Christ is more and more filled But if we would be too forward you will plucke vs backe againe Although it be say you in some places of Europe yet in some other it is not As who should say your Popery is generall in all Where I pray you in Greece is your Papistry It is not in Asia and Africa and much lesse in the Indies The East Indies are part of Asia if you could think vpon it By what means your Idolatry came into those Countries I haue shewed before and how plentifully there it is If we would talke idly as you for the most part doe we might say that in every place where the Marchants of Holland trade and haue people residing our religion is accepted But since the English Merchants haue companies houses in Russia in Constantinople in Aleppo in Alexandria sometimes in Barbary in Zacynthus in Venice and Legorne we might say after the fashion of your boasting that our religion is in those parts But we desire to make no more of things then indeede they are Yet we tell you for those remote provinces that as now one hundred and twenty yeeres agone they knewe not one whit of your faith so it may please God before one hundred and twenty yeeres more bee passed if it so seeme good to his most sacred wisedome to plant the truth which we reach in the East Westerne world especially if a passage by the North ende of America or that by Asia beyond Ob may bee opened vvherein our q M. Hacluiâ—… vnges Nation hath much adventured and speng good summes of treasure vvhich also the Hollanders haue done But the issue of this whole matter must bee leste to the divine providence which is to bee magnified therefore if hee adde this blessing to his Church And if he deny it either there or in any other place we must not be caried too farre with griefe or pitty since it doth not please him who is the father of mercie to condescend vnto it Nowe vvhereas you avouch that our doctrine is onelye in England I knovve not vvhither I shoulde put that in your ignoraunces or rather in your malicious cavils Truth it is our common prayer booke is vsed onelye by those who are of Englishe allegeaunce but is there anie pointe of doctrine in it vvherevnto other Churches reformed in Europe doe not condescend The Catechisme of the Councell of Trent doth differ in words from the Catechisme of Canisius and both of them from that of M. Vaux yet you would thinke it a wronge if anye man should tell you that they disagree in pointes of doctrine So the service of the reformed Congregations in Europe as in England Scotland Fraunce Switzerland in the dominion of the Palsgraue in the Regiments and free cities of Germany which are of the Pallsgraues confession as also in a good parte of the low Countries is the same in all pointes of moment not differing one intâ—… their Professions are the same There is no question among these in anie one pointe of religion The Ecclesiasticall policy being different as in some places by Bishops in some other wâ—…thout them doth not alter ought of faith The Apostles in that they were Apostles had a kinde of governement vvhich the Church had not afterward in the very same particular In the auncient Church some cities and Countreyes vvere immediately ruled by a Patriarke Grande Metropolitane some other by an inferiour Bishoppe vvho was subiected to the greater yet they all might agree in the faith The cheefe at Rome immediately is the Pope at Millaine for spirituall thinges the Arch-bishoppe in some places bee but Suffragaines in some other Iurisdictions a Deane or Priour by Privilege hath almost Papall auctoritie vvhich also in times past vvas in the Chauncellours or Vice-chauncellours of our English Vniversities some fewe thinges beeing excepted and reserved Yet will you say that these doe differ in
religion or retaine not the same doctrine Even so it is touching the beleefe of the Protestantes in England of those which you in spite call Puritaines in Scotland and of them whome you tearme maliciously Libertines in Holland and Zeland They teach no other libertie then what the r Galat. 5. 1. Apostle teacheth and biddeth vs to stande fast in it For the shewing of your skill I entreate you to let your scholers heare one pointe of moment or materiall vvherein all those Churches which before I named doe differ Speake it out if you can tell what Touching the Lutheranes in Denmarke and many places of Germany I haue toulde you before that in one pointe of the Eucharist they disagree from the rest of the Churches which the LORD in time may sende to bee reconciled and wee pray vnto him for the same But your comfort vppon that discorde is small For as Anthonie sometimes Kinge of Navatre and father to the most Christian Kinge of Fraunce now raigning s Commentaâ—… Relig. Reip. in Gall. lib. saide to the Embassadour of the Kinge of Denmarke exhorting the reformed French to bee of Luthers doctrine There bee fortie points wherein Luther and Calvine doe differ from the Pope and in nine and thirty of them they agree betweene themselues and in that single one they dissent Their followers therefore should do well to ioyne in the greater number against the Pope till they had ruinated him and vvhen his heart is broken they should fall to compound that last single difference God in his good time may graunt this to bee done although in the meane while hee doe exercise his spouse asseemeth good to himselfe T. HILL LAstly I doe bore consider with my selfe if I should refuse the Catholike Romans religion so vniversally taught ' received and professed throughout all the world so many ages togither and embrace any of these new sillie sects adventuring my soule there-vpon what all my progenitours auncesters of they were here againe and sawe mee die so would say vnto mee I gesse they woulde vse such speeches as thâ—se vvhat doest then condemne all our iudgementes and doings Doest thou maligne that Religion which we so highly esteemed and sought to advance Doest then sende vs all to hell and damnation Wilt thou iudge thy selfe vviser and more in Gods favour then any of vs were And many such like speeches I thinke they would vse G. ABBOT 27 I doubte not but in this Reason you haue borrowed of your neighbours as well as you did in others before although it be not my hap to trace you heere as formerly I haue done But the reckoning vp of those your places in the Easterne parts of the world are by me certainly held not to be your own which I conceiue by the complexion of all the rest of your book For your phrases and appellations bestowed on Luther and Calvin Father Persons is your schoole-master But because you are devoted vnto blinde Bristowes Motiues if you haue beene sparingly with him in all this Chapter before yet heere you conclude with s Motiv 36. him about our Predecessours VVhere you might haue remeÌ„bred that to speake properly neither our auncesters shall iudge vs neither shall we iudge our auncesters but Iesus Christ shall iudge both and hee will not take for good payment that which we follow by imitation of our parents but what wee doe or haue done after his owne commandements How often in the Scripture are men blamed for walking in the waies of t 1. King 15 34. cap. 16. 19. 26. Ieroboam of other their Auncesters How often do the u Psa 106. 6 Dan. 9. 6. 16 godly confesse and deplore their fathers sinnes before God What precepts be there to that purpose as that Salomons wife vvho representeth the spouse of Christ should u Psal 45 â—…1 forgot her owne people and her fathers house What a praise is it to x a Kinâ—… 8â—… 〈◊〉 Hezekiah to y Cap. 21 24 Iosiah and divers other that having idolatrous parents they did rather looke to their father which is in heaven then to flesh and bloud vpon earth If this instruction of yours should haue gone for currant the Iewes should scant haue received the doctrine of Christ but the Gentiles without all question shoulde haue kept them to Iupiter to Apollo to Aesculapius because if they had done otherwise they had condemned the way of their forefathers By this rule our auncesters heere in Englande should not haue received baptisme and the Indians and Iaponians whome you say so fast without booke should haue worshipped their old Idoles The complaint which you here make in the person of our predecessours was made before by Symmachus to the Emperour Valentinian in the daies of Saint Ambrose speaking thus in the name of the city Rome z Ambro Epist lib 5 Most noble Princes you fathers of the Countrey reverence yet my yeares vnto which my rootes of devotion haue brought me I will vse my ceremonies which I received from my grandfathers for I repent not my selfe of them I will liue after mine 〈◊〉 fashion for I am free But Saint a Ibidem Ambrose comming afterward to answere all these obiections teacheth that there is one who in matters of religion is rather to be beleeued then all the world besides Concerning God whom should I rather beleeue then God himselfe But of this argument I may haue occasion to speake more at large 28 Onely now thus much I adde that if any of our parents offended God and dyed in damnable ignorance who woulde say that for their sakes and company we should thrust our selues into hell ' If any of them were right they will not grudge that wee should haue more light opened vnto vs then they in their time saw even as those holy Iewes vnder the law fore-seeing what would be vnder the Messias envyed not to the Apostles and other of that age the more perfect liuely knowledge of Christ. But leaving the definition and determining sentence of all vnto the Lords secret iudgement into which we must not ofter to prease or intrude we do hope that many of those who lived in the time of darkenesse had that mercy shewed vnto them that their soules doe rest in peace Such is Saint Cyprians opinion in the like case b De sacrâ—…mento dominici caliâ—… Epist 68 And see most deare brother if any of our Predecessours either ignorantly or simply did not obserue and holde this which the Lorde taught vs to doe by his owne example and ministery by the favour of the Lorde there may bee pardon given to his simplicitie If any of them did holde the foundation concerning their being iustified by the bloud of Christ alone and besides that did repent of all their errours knowne and vnknown committed by ignorance or wilfulnesse we feare not but that the same God who gaue vnto them some measure of knowledge and would require of theÌ„
will take paines to reade the Lives of the Saints as they are set downe by the foreinamed Authours Such trimme men are your miracle-workers and therefore your miracles must needes also be of an excellent sute T. HILL AND therefore I say vnto you out of Saint Austen I am bound and tyed in the Catholike Church by the band chaine August devtil cred c. 〈◊〉 l coÌ„t Epâ—…sund cap. 4 of miracles And I am bolde considering and most stedfastly beleeuing these insinite glorious miracles of all times ages in the Catholike Romane Church to crye out to Almighty God with Richard de S. Victore lib. de trin cap. 2. Lord if it be not true which we beleive thou hast deceived vs for these have bin confirmed in vs by such signes wonders as could not be wrought but by thee But on the contrarie parte never any Protestant could worke any miracle at all but assâ—…ying to make some shew thereof to make their Doctrine the more probable to their followers felte the iust revengement of God who turned all to their shame confusion as he did by Simon Magus by Cyrola the Patriarke of the Arrians as witnesseth Grego Turon Egesippus lib. 3 de excid hieroâ—…ol cap. 2 lib. 2. hist. Fran. cap. 3. by the Donatists Optatus lib. 2. contr Parmen 〈◊〉 our dates by Luther endevouring to dispossesse a wench and by Calvin going about to delude his disciples as you may read in Hierom Bolsec in vit Calvin cap. 13. And therfore they are most foolish Vid Staph in abs relp and miserably inconsiderate who beleeve these newe fellowes not being able to quicken a flea and leave the doctrine of the Catholike Church confirmed with innumerable miracles G. ABBOT 9 IN the texte you cite one saying out of Saint Austen but in the margent you quote two The 〈◊〉 former place doth only mention that the truth of Christian religion De vtilitat credend cap. 17. is coÌ„firmed by miracles But you therin abuse your Reader notably For he speaketh of miracles past that in Christs time and not of any which were to come or like to coÌ„tinue in the church The words to which hee alludeth are more plaine in the chapter next before going where in a larger sort he haÌ„dleth that argumeÌ„t Such x Cap 16 things were doÌ„e at that time wherin God in a trâ—… maÌ„ did appeere as much as was sufficient for men The sicke were healed the lepers vvere cleansed going was restored to the lame sight to the blind hearing to the deafe And there is speech of no other matter And to no other purpose is the second place where the words are not which you cite His saying is thus that there bee diverse thinges which doe keepe him in the bosome of the Church y Contr. Ep. fundament cap 4 The consent of people and nations doth holde mee there doth hold me an authority which was begon with miracles nourished by hope euer â—…ased by charity confirmed by antiquity Doth this make for you as you thinke or against you The authority of the Church was begon with miracles It is true meaning of the time of Christ and his Apostles but he doth not saye it was continued and must be continued vnto the worldes end much lesse doth he affirme that it must be as a necessary argumeÌ„t of truth So you haue gained much by these two places even as you haue done by the whole ranke of your woÌ„ders wherof such as appertaine to you that is the late LegeÌ„dary inventioÌ„s are many indeed but not infinite are so far from being glorious that they are plainely coÌ„temptible ridiculous fit for your vn-Catholike Romane struÌ„pet whose throne must be supported with lies and variety of falshoods In being therfore â—…old you may be more bold theÌ„ you haue thanke for your labour but do not saye that you most stedfastly beleeve for you bestow too good a word vpon your selfe In such stuffe as this is z Palingen in Geminis Quifacilis credit facilis quoque fallitur He who lightly beleeveth is easily deceived You are strongly conceited you haue a boisteous imagination froÌ„ which the sooner you fly the safer you wil stand The a De Trin. lib. 1 cap. 2 words of Richard de S. Victore are not spoken of your fabulous and instly questionable wonders but of such signes as gaue evidence to the first preaching of the Gospell were wrought by Christ and his disciples which were so true so strange as that they could be wrought by none but by the power of God and therefore we may beleeve the doctrine both of the Trinity and other matters which they confirmed and not be deceived at all Yet this addeth no credit to your forgeries illusions neither convinceth that now we are to depeÌ„d on miracles That we do not take on vs to be able to work any we do most willingly acknowledg We know that those daies are past although God do not so restraine himselfe but that the praiers of his servants interceding he sometimes suffereth strange things to be done But we caÌ„not presume vpoÌ„ it since we haue no warrant for it out of the word of God And who is there I pray you in the whole Hierarchy of your Papacy who dare professedly assume that gifte vnto him Dareth your Pope the ministerial head of al your holines dare your Cardinals your Bishops your Friers your Priestes Long agone the b Decretal lib. 5. tit 35. cap. 3. Templars in Livonia did enforce the poore people to this that if any of theÌ„ were accused of any crime to purge themselues they shold go bare-footed over certaine redde hot irons if they were burnt at all then they were helde for guilty But some newly coÌ„verted to the faith coÌ„plained of this to the Pope Honorius the 3. he inhibited that any more such triall should be made calling it a thing forbidden a greevance that wherin God was tempted The like may be said of any who presuÌ„ptuously should professe to atteÌ„pt any strange miraculous matter it is but a tempting of God even by the iudgmeÌ„t of c Isa 7 12. Ahaz nowe long agone who beeing but an evil man yet was so faire tightly instructed Yet that good hypocrite your S. Dominicke going to dispute against the d Ioh. Bâ—…isseul contr Spond Albingenses preteÌ„ding that he would proue theÌ„ heretikes did bid theÌ„ write their reasons cast theÌ„ in the fire if saith he they will not burne then we wil beleeue you As if the holy Bible were not truth if beeing cast into the flame it would burne to ashes You can tell vs tales of your men doing else-where great wonders but you should doe well to sende vs some of your miracle-mongers hither that we may iudge of their iugling You mutter much of an holy annointed Priest that he by exorcizing can cast out Devils but we wonder that these
that they alone can so oft see the Devill And they alone can haue the Devils in them which finde worke for the exorcists He is simple that seeth not that this was a devise to driue men froÌ„ the participation of the Lords supper A third he hath that a great many CoÌ„munion bookes lying in a sicke mans chamber were caught vp by a fire which seemed to haue many hands so were throwne into a flame He who wil so lightly bestow so much of his beleife as to credit this may demurre vpoÌ„ this actioÌ„ whither it were not the Devils owne deed who caÌ„not away with the Communion booke therfore burneth it not because it is bad but because it is against him so have his disciples doÌ„e And the like may be expouÌ„ded of the black doge before not enduring that the people shold participate of those holy misteries It might also be asked what so many CoÌ„munioÌ„ books did in one ChaÌ„ber NotwithstaÌ„ding we rather hold al these things to be humane fictions or if they were done to be diabolical illusions 6 BVT heere to come neerer the state of this wise Reason It is most true that there was a time when visions dreames Prophecies were of good force God vsing to do by his children as Iob speaketh that is talketh to theÌ„ in s Iob. 33. 15. dreams visioÌ„s of the night wheÌ„ sleepe falleth vpoÌ„ theÌ„ they sleepe vpoÌ„ their beds So s Gâ—… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Abimilech was warned in a dreame to abstaine froÌ„ Sara t Cap 28 â—…2 lacob had his dreame of the ladder u 1 Reg 3. 5 SalomoÌ„ was willed in a dreame to aske what he wold And of this sort we find very many other which advertised meÌ„ of the Lords special wil in many particulars In like maÌ„ner there is warraÌ„t for diverse visioÌ„s as wheÌ„ God coÌ„forted 〈◊〉 Iacob in a VisioÌ„ when he appeered to 〈◊〉 Gen. 46 3 x 1 Sam 3â—… 1 Samuel professing what iudgmeÌ„t he would bring vpoÌ„ the house of â—…li So in the new TestameÌ„t y Act 1 3 Cornelius z Cap. 9. 121 Ananias had their visioÌ„s And for Prophecying Moses all other who were so inspired froÌ„ the Lord do sufficieÌ„tly speake And yet even in those daies we find that it was not safe to trust al things which came in the nâ—…me of prophecyings visions dreames For there were false Prophets as is plaine by a 1. Reg 22 11. Zidkiah many more And Ieremy schooleth the people b Ier. 27. 9 Heare not your Prophets nor your soâ—…thsayers nor your dreamers who say vnto you thus Yee shall not serve the King of Babel for they prophecy a lie vnto you And in another place he saith of other c Cap â—…3 10. â—…5 They speake the visioÌ„ of their own hart not out of the mouth of the Lord. And afterward God saith I have heard what the Prophets said that prophecy lies in my name saying I have dreamed I haue dreamed This is theÌ„ a daÌ„gerous thing for credulous people to be deceived by vnlesse they chaÌ„ge their iudgmeÌ„t bee very wary God therefore addeth farther d Vers. 28. The Prophet that hath a dreame let him tell a dreame he that hath my word let him speake my word faithfully It is then Gods word faithfully looked into which must be the directioÌ„ to the speaker the hearer Else how soone might meÌ„ be deceived That e 1 Reg. 13. 9 18. Prophet of the Lord may veryfie this who himselfe was quickly beguiled through credulity at the instance of another Prophet f Nehem. 6â— 10. perswading him directly against Gods wil revealed vnto him NotwithstaÌ„ding Nehemiah being wiser wheÌ„ he might haue bin so catched by Shemiah preteÌ„ding a revelation did not harken vnto him but looked to that duty which was coÌ„mauÌ„ded him And that was it wherin mens spirit of discretioÌ„ did coÌ„sist in those daies to look whether they furthered the Lords service or no when they spake whether other approved circumstances did concurre for in other general matters the good the bad might externally seeme to ioine The place of g Deuter. 13. 1 Deuteronomy is in this behalfe worth the coÌ„sidering where it is saide that a Prophet may come or a dreamer of dreames and may give a signe or a wonder that also may come to passe yet he may be a deceaver drawing to false Gods and is not to be followed Then eveÌ„ in those times visions dreames prophecyings taken in themselves were but tickle things to rest on neither had they any sure grouÌ„d but from the word by which they were to be tried That without them was forcible they disagreeing from it were nothing 7 But now since that Christ is come we are taught in no sort to depeÌ„d vpoÌ„ theÌ„ for the doctrin is general coÌ„cerning al things h Hebr. 1. 1â— At sundry times in diverse maÌ„ners God spake in the old time to our fathers by the Prophets In these last daies he hath spoken vnto vs by his sonne which Antithesis doth intend that miracles al means saving the word of Christ are now cut off froÌ„ resting our vndoubted faith thervpoÌ„ But in special touching visioÌ„s miracles wheÌ„ the i Luc. 16 29. Rich maÌ„ is brought in as desiring that Lazarus might straÌ„gly be sent or appeere as a ghost or in some vision to warne his brethren our Saviour frameth Abrahams answer They haue Moses and the Prophets let them heare them as holding that alone to be sufficient and cutting of all other points from being matters of certainety where-on to rest our faith and soules And yet as it was said of Miracles before we deny not but that after the asceÌ„sion of Christ the death of the Apostles some seldom times visions might be shewed to some of the elect for their privat instructioÌ„ satisfactioÌ„ or comfort as k Eus. Eccl. Histor 4. 14 Polycarpus did dreame that he shold be burnt for Christ l Lib. 5 27 Natalius by stripes giveÌ„ him or seeming to be giveÌ„ him by Angels was revoked froÌ„ heresy to an Orthodoxe opinioÌ„ so was m Hier epist 22 ad Eust Hierom froÌ„ overmuch studying Tully humane learning n Theo 516 Theodosius did dream that he should be Emperour Where obserue we two things first that these visions were touching privat mens maâ—…ere not to teach much lesse to broch any new or vncertain doctrine to the Church for which purpose our Papists do vrge their visions especially to establish Purgatory the appurtenances therevnto Secondly that albeit in some few God did this yet it was not laid downe as a fundameÌ„tal matter that there should alwaies in the Church be such persons neither might any maÌ„ presume to say that continually there should be such a vocatioÌ„â—… neither could any person by an assured faith
many therfore were attainted and accordingly received punishment If they should be well examined the Visions which are fathered on Philippus Nerius of whom I spake before and who not 〈◊〉 many 〈◊〉 An 1595. yeares since dyed at Rome would proue to be of this quality Divers of his friends g Eius vitae l 1 An 1556 dying are said to appeare vnto him he saw their soules immediatly passing into the kingdome of heaven Nay h An 1559 Christ himselfe was seene of him And as he saw Visions for other so other saw some for him whence we may learne that false laddes neede no other brokers then themselues This Philip and his fellowes had pretended to go into India to convert soules but one i An 1557 Augustinus Ghettinus a Monke and confederate of his saw Iohn the Evangelist in a Vision who told him that Rome must be Philips Indies that he was chosen to dresse Gods vineyard there Thus they packed togither that their credit might be saved and yet they might sleep at home in a whole skinne also Since that time Father Weston alias Edmundes the Iesuite and his fellowes the Priestes haue made great vse of Visions in England especially by the meanes of one Richarde Mainy who since by confession on his k A declaration of Popish Impostures Confes. ofâ—… Mainy oth hath discovered all to be but an impure and most cousening iuggling devise It was long beleeved touching him that he saw a glistering light come from the thumbs and fore fingers of the Priests at sundry times which was devised to make the world beleeue that those thuÌ„bs and fingers were most holy matters being annointed with holy oyle when they were made Priests In a traunce of his he said he was in Purgatory and reported many strang things thereof Also he foresawe that from that time till Good-Fryday he should haue Visions every Sunday and this with like frawde was accomplished sometimes it being prophecied that Papists should sustaine great persecutions in England and sometimes it beeing related that Christ with great multitudes of Angels or the Virgin Marie with traines of blessed Virgins were present in the Chamber and then downe the staÌ„ders by must on their knees to worship theÌ„ pray to theÌ„ One part of Mainies fore-sightes was that on the Good-friday he should dye but when that day came he was warned that it must be otherwise so indeed the deade maÌ„ is aliue yet hath disclosed the whol devise Yet the shamelesse Iesuite aboue named wrote a whole quire of paper concerning these Visions of his and many a silie Papist both be hither and beyond the seas haue beene bobbed with the strang reports of these counterfeit RevelatioÌ„s perhaps have beleeved them as they would do their Creed Many examples more in this kind might be produced which may teach men not to be too credulous in these coÌ„ceits which evermore originally come vpon the report of one person for he it is who must tell his owne dreame or Vision and easie it is for some reporters themselues to be deluded by the Devill as easie for some other to delude as many as wil giue credite vnto them Then since both Divinity and humanity doe shew this to be a matter most suspecte let Papistes accept this for a weake reason of their vnsound beleife wee for our partes will haue nothing to doe with it 9 And yet it is not amisse before the shutting vp of this Chap. to obserue that they are alwaies beateÌ„ with their own rodde For if we may attribute any thing to those whoÌ„ in the last ages they hold for the greatest Prophets most autheÌ„tical seers of VisioÌ„s Popery is al naught For we scaÌ„t find any who in a general speech is reported to haue had that gifte but a great parte of his other talke hath bin against the Papacy Clergy therof l Catalog â—…estium veâ—…at lib 15 Hildegardis was by many held to be a Prophetisse and she did not only taxe the lewde life of the Romish Priests but their neglect of Ecclesiastical duty their horrible destroying of the Church of God Among other words she hath these TheÌ„ the meter of the Apostolike honor shal be devided because no religioÌ„ shal be fouÌ„d in the Apostolicalorder for that cause shal they lightly esteeme the dignity of that name shal set vp vnto theÌ„selues other meÌ„ Arch-Bishops so that the keeper of the see Apostolik at that time by the diminishing of his honour shal scant haue Rome a few things adioyning vnder his miter About the same time also which is more theÌ„ 400. yeeres agone lived m Ibideâ—… Mechâ—…hildis reputed al so for a Prophetisse And she speaking of coÌ„tentioÌ„s which shold be in Germany for religioÌ„ addeth that theÌ„ the church of Rome should wholy apostate opeÌ„ly froÌ„ the faith of Christ that there should remaine in Germany a poore afflicted company who should serve God religiously purely There was also one n Ibidem Elizabeth a maiden attendant on Hildegardis who is recorded to have such predictions invectiues against the Romanists The Prophecies of Ioachimus Abbas Anselmus termed Episcopus Marsicanus are lately o An. 1589 put out at Venice by Paschalinus Regiselmus there is the Pope still pictured in his triple crowne and he hath part nay seemeth to be the cheefe in al the iniquity there intended Brigit who lived about the yeere 1370. is by our Papistes helde for a famous Prophetisse and by the Pope she is Canonized for a Saint In her p Catalogs lib. 18. Revelations she calleth the Pope a killer of soules the disperser tearer of the sheepe of Iesus Christ. Shee saith that hee is more abhominable then the Iewes more cruel then Iudas more vuiâ—…st then Pelate worse and viler then Lucifer himselfe That the seate of the Pope shall be drowned in the deepe like a heavy stone That those who sit with him shall be burned in fire of brimstone which is not to be quenched Thus did shee and many other scowre the Church of Rome which as it seemeth Doctour Hill knevve vvell inough and therfore suppressed the names of these least he shold be thought to mention those who flattered the Popedome Savanorola by the confession of vnpartiall Iudges was a man who fore-prophecied many things He fore-tolde the comming of Charles the 8. the FreÌ„ch King into Italie how there he should prevaile Philippus q De bello NeapolitaÌ„ lib. 3. Comineus spake with him in person at such time as the Venetians had thought with their armye to haue entercepted Charles returning home-ward with no great forces And Comineus saith of hi that hiÌ„self coÌ„miÌ„g new froÌ„ the heÌ„ch army yet was by him informed of many thiÌ„gs there doÌ„e Savanorola knowing theÌ„ better beiÌ„g abseÌ„t theÌ„ he did who was preseÌ„t And he told Comineus that albeit Charles his master were hardly laid to by
slaine in the temple of t 2. Mach 1 13. 16. Nanea and there haue his head and the heads of his company cut of and in a third u Cap. 9 28 passage should die a miserable death in a strange country among the mountaines that should be only by the u Dan 8. 25. hand of God without any helpe of man Nor that x 2. Mach 1. 18. Nehemias should builde the Temple the aulter at Ierusalem vvhen indeede they vvere y Ezr. 313. cap 6 15 builte before his comming vp nor that it is to bee founde in the vvorkes of z 2. Mac 2 1 Ieremie the Prophet that he commaunded the people who were ledde away captiue to take fire with thē Moreover it were worth the knowing how by good Divinity the fact of Razias a Cap. 14 42 murthering himselfe may any wise be cōmended And whether such as were the pen-mē of the holy Ghost do vse to craue pardon of their infirmity insufficiēty in delivering that which is to be named Canonical Scripture which the b Cap 15 39 author of the later book of the Machabees doth Many more such blemishes are to be foūd in these tracts which evidently shew that no doctrine of infallible verity can be grounded vpon them but where they haue ought agreeing with the Canonical Scriptures they may bee accepted because they consent with the other where they haue ought disagreeing that same cannot be warranted because it is in these Apocriphal to be found but it is to be repudiated as the errour of a man since a greater God himselfe who speaketh in his owne word doth impugne it 4 Now for the points of doctrine which you would vrge out of these bookes thus we say That Angels are deputed to safegard Gods elect we doubt not for the c Psal 34 7 Angel of the Lord pitchethroūd about thē that feare him delivereth thē those whō the d 2 Reg 6. 17 servant of Elizeus saw do testifie so farre neither do we so much as call it into question but that they are e Hebr. 1. 14 ministring spirites sent imploied in messages as the f Luc 1 26 Angel Gabriel was to the Virgin Mary when and where otherwise it pleaseth God But what can our Papists collect hence That they are to be prayed vnto or that they are to be worshipped We find no warrant any where for the former they thēselues refuse the latter I g Apoc. 19 10 am one of thy fellow servaunts saith the Angel to Iohn Worship God Or can they proue that an Angell doth so sensibly serviceably waite on men as this mentioned in Tobias is reported to do And if they could what doth it crosse any point in our religion since al must be done by the Lords appointment the glory must be given vnto him As for free-vvill in that sence which the Church of Rome doth teach it we deny Neither doth the text of Ecclesiasticus h Eccle. 15 15 necessarily inforce it being as fit to be vnderstood only of Adam in his first creation as otherwise And the words of this writer being soberly taken may cary no other sence then vvhat is to be found in vndoubted bookes of i Deut 30 19 Scripture vvhich textes notwithstanding we deny not but by comparing place to place give them their right exposition VVe acknovvledge the freedome of mās hart to do evil as also that by the Spirit of God the will of the regenerate is freed to do good but this is not so much liberum as liberatum arbitrium not so much a will free as freed nothing being in the power of man himselfe but all bestowed by God But concerning this we shal speake more largly hereafter The place of the k 2. Mac 12 42◅ Machabees is too weake to proue praier for faithfull soules lying in Purgatory to be lawfull The text it selfe in the Originall is so perplexe that an evident and certain sence cannot be made of the words And who doth not see there that they were not faithful persons but rather grosse sinners which were slaine and such as may bee thought to haue received a iust iudgment from God both on body and foule for medling with the Anathema or excommunicate thing Iudas therfore who was a man so experienced in the law of Moses could not be so simple as to send an offring or to cause praiers to be made for the soules of them who were thus flaine especially when all offrings were prescribed in the Leviticall law but there was none immediately concerning the persons of dead men but all for the living this therefore was the misse-conceite of the authour writing therein his owne fancie rather then the fact of Iudas For that worthy man wel knewe that the atonement and reconciliation was to be made for the rest of the people and army which lived who might smart in and for their fellowes sinne as their fore-fathers had done for the l Iosua 7. 5. transgression of Achan The offring then and praier at Hierusalem was to prevent this and not for the soules of them who dyed in their sinne and were not godly persons as the wordes of the Authour may seeme to import That men should pray to Saints I finde nothing in these treatises Only somewhat there is that m Mac. 15 12 14. Onias and Ieremy did pray for the whole people of the Iewes And what will you infer vpon these You might vnderstand that we deny not that the Saints in heaven do pray in general for the good of the Church but that they in particular know our wants heare our callings vnderstand our wishes that remaineth for you to proue Besides you might perceiue that this was a Vision wherein things are represented otherwise then really they are as it was with S. Peter who conceived that a n Act 10. 11 sheete full of all cleane and vncleane beasts was let downe vnto him which neverthelesse I trust you will not say was so indeed So that from the words circumstances of a Vision you can concludingly evince no more then from the words and circumstances of a P◅rable and that is little but from the end vse and scope of both you may to good purpose collect somewhat And yet farther without impiety it may be doubted whither the Generall here did not vse a tricke of war which Alexander and other Graund leaders haue experimented that is to incourage men by a dreame artificially fained and reported the benefit whereof in worldlye mens iudgement is such that o Ca 20 146 Leo Imperator in his military precepts hath this for one Thou shalt cause in thy souldiours alacrity to the battaile if on the day of fighte thou rising in the morning shalt say that some dreame was sent vnto thee from God which doth incite thee to invade thine enemies and sheweth thee some kinde of helpe to
vs belieue that although in the first Synode which long since did canonize the bookes of holy writte they were not admitted yet in a later Synode the Canon was made larger And reasons for this he maketh shew to giue But it is too late Genebrard you come after the faire The Councel which cannot erre hath shut them out of dores the Pope hath ratified their Decree therfore you lose your labour and you are but one man against so many Fathers therfore best pul in your hornes For as with your owne side you are like to gaine nothing so otherwise you wil pul an olde house on your head whē by your example you teach vs that a private man may question yea conclude against that which your Counsels haue determined Where by the way let not the simple and vnlearned Christian wonder that in this best booke the Bible there should be any thing which is not properly a member of it for we therin as also in reading some part of them publikely doe but imitate the custome of the most auncient purest c Zanch. in Observat in cap. 1◅ Confessiō Churches ioyning that with Gods most sacred word which vniversally hath bin ioyned among Christians since almost the eldest times and is not refused by the most reformed Churches at this day but we distinguish these writings from the divine volumes and note them by the name or appellation of Apocripha as hidden in comparison of the bright light of the other which may wel endure the light and sunne-shine And by a little Preface before those doubted bookes as also by the Articles of Religion agreed on in Cōvocation An. 1562. we teach what opinion the Church hath of them that they are not received to be publikely expoūded nor to confirme matters of doctrine but only as they cōsent with the other which are Canonical or onely as the writings of some godly men which may serue to giue light to the history or containe some not vnprofitable instructiōs touching good manners And these things in our Sermōs writings we do fequētly notify So that this indifferent course being held there is no iust cause of offence givē either to the weake beleever or to the malitious clamorous adversory that being done which anciently in the best Christian Churches was done and yet the people be taught but howe and in what sence it is done Nay our Church hath beene so carefull for giving any vvay iust occasion of scandale in this matter that it permitteth the Minister to reade in steede of any of these Apocriphal Chapters other Canonicall lessons vpon the Sun-daies and Holy-daies and therefore much more vpon the working-daies as hee in his wisedome iudgement shal see fit requiring of him prudence discretion in that behalfe Which appeareth in the Second Tome of Homilies set out by publike d An. 1563. authority almost in the beginning of her late Maiesties raigne For there in the e An admonition to al Ministers Ecclesiasticall Preface this advertisement being given to all Ministers For that the LORD doth require of his servant whom bee hath set over his housholde to shevve both faithfulnes and prudence in his office c. some thinges are advised vnto him touching his duty but lastly this is subnected and subioyned And vvhere it may so chaunce some one or other Chapter of the olde Testament to fall in order to bee reade vpon the Sundaies or Holy-daies vvhich vvere better to bee chaunged vvith some other of the New Testament of more edification it shall bee vvell done to spende your time to consider vvell of such Chapters before hand vvhereby your prudence and diligence in your office may appeere so that your people may haue cause to glorifie GOD for you and bee the readier to embrace your labours to your better commendation to the discharge of your consciences and their owne Which pointe being well considered avoideth all blame from the Church of England even in the eyes of them that would seeme most quicke-sighted it being not onely permitted to the Minister but also commended in him if vvisely and quietly hee doe reade Canonicall Scripture vvhere the Apocryphal vppon good iudgement seemeth not so fitte or any Chapter of the Canonicall may bee conceived not to haue in it so much edification before the simple as some other parte of the same Canonical may be thought to haue For the wordes wil very well cary both these 7 VVell then if there bee reasons why the Church of Rome doth shut out from the Canon these bookes of Esdras and yet they are printed and bound vp with all their ordinary Bibles if the same or such like exceptions may bee taken against Iudith Tobias and the rest is there not as great reason that they also should be secluded from the Canonicall albeit they remaine in the volume of the Bible The exceptions against all these controversed writings are many but I will reduce them briefly to these three plaine heads which I meane to touch First the matter of the bookes of Esdras is slight and vaine without maiestie and vnworthy the holy and sacred spirit of God Secondly these tracts are not to be founde in the Canon of the old that is the Iewish Church And thirdly in the computation of Christians they are also reiected If we lay these lines and rules to the rest we shall finde them of very little different quality For first the matter of them is not coherent with the rest of the vndoubted scripture In c Cap 5. 12 Tobias the Angell vtteteth somewhat of himselfe which cannot literally be avoided when he saith to old Tobias I am of the kinredos Azarias and Ananias the great and of thy brethren So it is a narration worthy at the least to be pawsed vpon that the d Cap 6 13 seven husbands of Sara should be killed by an evil spirit the first night of their mariage Of the hart and liver of the fish I haue spoken before Is it not a likely matter that e Cap 8. 9◅ Raguel would make a graue for him whom the day before hee so advisedly tooke for his sonne in law now to bury him before hee was dead They are not matters to bee commended by the penne of the holy Ghost that Iudith should f Iud 10 3 4 dresse and tricke her selfe more then became a matrone that so she might allure Holofernes to wantonnesse that shee g Cap. 12 12 14 18 c 13 1 should make shew as not to deny to lie with him that shee should tell such evident h Ca. 10. 12. 13 vntruthes to his servants at her first taking and to i Ca 11 15 16 himselfe afterward That the Iewes should haue peace so long in her life k Ca. 16. 25. time and a great while after her death is a matter vnprobable since these warres of Holofernes are saide to be made in the time of King l Cap. 2. 1.
saiththat by Martin the 5. it was ratified But he extenuateth that of Basil and saith that by Nicolas the 5. it was approved in those things which beloÌ„g ad ciÌ„sur as causas boneficiales c Vt. supra Sic Bellar. de Concil lib 〈◊〉 cap 7 Possevinus like a Iesuit who must stick close to the Pope saith that indeed that of Censures of Benefices was allowed by Nicolas the 5. but the rest was al refused in the CouÌ„cel at Laterane by Leo the 10. And there he telleth vs that such part of the CouÌ„cel of CoÌ„staÌ„ce as did set the CouÌ„cel aboue the Pope was caslated cashiered but that which was done against Wiclef and Hus was ratified before by Pope Martin Is not your provorb here true So many meÌ„ so manie minds that faith giveÌ„ to I. Hus may be brokeÌ„ as being to an heretik shal staÌ„d for good doctrin but the allowaÌ„ce of the d Cochâ—… in Hist Hussit l. 7. Eucharist in both kinds made to the Hussits by y e deputies of the couÌ„cel of Basil the yeelding to the other 3. articles is frustrated And it wil go hard with the Vir. Mary also who there was quit of being conc Basil Sess 36. coÌ„ceived in Original sin whervpoÌ„ dependeth the feast of the coÌ„cepâ—… of our Lady as you cal it wherof what the FraÌ„ciscane Friers will thinke I leane to your consideration By this men may see how wise the Pope is who will surely liue without his damme if we will let him alone when albeit all the Prelates of Christendome come togither and determine that which is good for the regiment of the Church yet if it touch the Pope he will stande to nothing Nay if Martin say yea confirme it Leo comming after will say No and vndoe it So that let the Councel pray and talke what they wil of the holy Ghost being among them if the Popes holy spirit do not agree with theirs their holy Ghost is nothing Somewhat it was that Pope f Platin ain Faschal 2 Paschall did put on a girdle whence 7. keyes and 7. seales did hang that he might advertise men that according to the seven fold graces of the holy Spirit he had power to close and seale and open and shut the holie Churches over whom by Gods appointment he was ruler That you must thinke to be all the world and by a consequent the generallest Councell Open your eies Papists and see whither that these doctrines be not the mockery of all religion You were as good take a compendious course and say plainely that the Pope may doe what he list as talke of a Councell and trouble a greate many meÌ„ about nothing then the resolutioÌ„ must be with g Centu. 16 in An. 1518 Silvester Prierias that the Popes authority is farre before the CouÌ„cels yea that the force of the sacred Scripture doth depend vpon the authority of the Pope or with h Ibidem Caietane the Cardinall who in a Conference with Luther at Auspurge did directly preferre the power of the Pope before al Scriptures and Councels which Luther good man would not beleeue I pray you gentle Doctor suffer your selfe to be coniured so farre as on your honesty to tell me whither you or we do attribute most to a Councel when we teach that many comming togither in the feare of God and sincerely vsing the best meanes that they possibly can and beeing directed by Gods spirit word may conclude that which must stand good and you say that be they never so many so learned so holy do they what they wil yet if the Pope like not of it he will not like any thing that shall binde him to any goodnes it is not al worth a straw 10 I cannot here omit that the milke which you gaue in the beginning of this Chapter is nowe cast downe by your owne heele I coÌ„mended you too soone A black More cannot change his skinne and you will to your owne biace Here the Councels were not only allowed and confirmed by one and the selfe same authority and this you meane to be your Popes but they are gathered also The impudencie of this Proposition which in a worde you thinke to steale away with I haue shewed before The Bishoppe of Rome durst neither for his head nor soule haue saide such a word in the time of the Primitiue Church He should haue been most arrogant before God and a rancke traytour to the Emperor his best master if he had assumed that vnto him I helped you even now with a place out of Socrates let mee now quit that with another Thus then he saith i Soc in pro aemio lib. 5. I haue everywhere in my storie made mention of the Emperours becacause since that time that they began to be Christians the businesse of the Church did seeme to depende vpon thâ—…â—…cke yâ—… and the greatest Councels were by their sentence or order called together and yet are so called Alas there was no token of the prety Popes supreame authority in coÌ„vocating such Occumenicall assemblies till almost a thousande yeares after Christ. Afterwarde when the Pope had got the head he began to bee a little bold but his Dictates were only attended in such places of the West as over which he had vsurped a spirituall dominion But the Greeke and Easterne Church tooke no notice of those assemblies more then of factious and partiall Conventicles which is the true cause that at the Councell of Florence which was cunningly got togither by Eugenius the 4. to toppe that of k Coch hist. Huss lib. 9. Basile held at the same time and which was assembled before by his owne authority but afterward thwatted some of his designes the Greekes did take no notice of any of the Synodes at Laterane Lions or Vienna where their ancestours before had not beene but only they tooke knowledge of such as whither the Greekes their predecessours had freely gone And therefore as l Li. 4. Chr. Genebrarde saith they who came to the meeting at FloreÌ„ce count that the eighth Synode which is to be vnderstood if they hold it for a Synode at all And in the m Scss. 5. 6. Councell of Florence it selfe the seconde helde before at Nice was then called by the Greekes the last Generall Councell and speciall exception was taken to that which is commonlye called the eighth Generall CouÌ„cel albeit it was held at CoÌ„staÌ„tinople they saying first that it never was at all received and secondly that afterward it was formerly abrogated For in as much as it had condemned Phoâ—ius Patriarke of Constantinople his successour Iohn called another Synode and antiquated the former Marke here that the Patriarke of the Greeke Church thinketh that he hath power to assemble Councels directly opposite to the proceedings of the Romish Bishop and that he challengeth to himselfe authoritie to dissolue and annullate that which he supposeth the Western Patriarke with
assured that we haue none but those which are right in the whole and in the parts For Actes of Councels haue bin much falsified as it is alleadged in the sixt Generall Councell holden at Constantinople t Action 14 that some had falsified the Actes of the fifth Generall Councel holden in the same place as was apparantly deprehended How those in Afrike did cōplaine of the Popes forsting in somewhat to the first Nicene Synode I haue shewed before and how the Councell sent to Nice it selfe to see the Originall But in the same manner hath the Pope complained that other haue also falsified the Actes of the same Councell For Felix Bishop of Rome himselfe hath made this Decree u In Decretis felicis Papae In Concilijs Let the persons of the accusers be without all suspicion because by reason of the molestations offered by evill men this was defined in the Nicene Councell by all although by the falshoode of lewde persons these and many other things are blotted out We then had neede to take heede that wee do not beleeue those things as certaine which of themselues are so vncertaine Let Papists doe it if they wil. Lastly before I shut vp this Chapter it is not amisse to know that it is not for the ancient Synods that the Romanists doe striue but for those which lately were helde wherein their Pope bore much sway and their Popery was established by fragments For out of the old Councels both Provinciall and Vniversall there are many matters contrary to their definitions As in the thirde Councel at Carthage there is much spoken concerning the children of Priests which sheweth that Priests then were ordinarily marryed And there it is that the Pope should not be called the Prince of Priests or chiefe Priest In the Elibertine Councell is a flat decree against Images in Churches It u Canon 36 pleaseth vs that pictures should not be in the Churches least that which is worshipped or adored should be painted on wals In the fifth x In epistol felicis Councell at Constantinople by an Epistle of Pope Felix to Zeno it is shewed that the Church is built on the confession of Peter not on his person or place In the ninth Councel of y Canon 1. Toledo if a Metropolitane defraude the Church complaint thereof is to be made to the king which sheweth that Princes then had to do with persons and causes Ecclesiasticall Very many more such instances may be brought how the old Councels knew nothing of that hart of Popery which since hath growne vp by the connivence of some Princes the weaknes of other and the notable cunning of Antichrist And for times now long agone the extravagancie and transcendencie of the Roman Bishops power is no where knowne For in the Nicene z Canon 6 Councell the Bishop of Alexandria in his Province and the Patriarke of Antioch in his haue as much iurisdiction as the Pope hath in his In the a Isidor in praefat Cōcil Ephesin Ephesine Synode Cyrill of Alexandria was president and not the Bishoppe of Rome and there it is saide that b In epistol ad Nestoriū Peter and Iohn were each to other of equall dignitie because they were Apostles and holie disciples which overthroweth the Primacie of the Romane Bishoppe deriving his prerogatiue only from Peters preeminence And in the Councell of c Canon 1. Chalcedon all is confirmed which was decreed before in other Synodes Thus the Pope and Papists should gaine much by sending vs to looke into the most ancient Councels THE TENTH REASON Fathers T. HILL THE Catholike Romane religion is most plainely taught by all the ancient Fathers of the first second thirde fourth fift and sixt hundred yeares after Christ and hath beene ever vvithout all controversie taught of the Fathers of everie age since vntill this day That religion did Diony sius Areopagita S. Paule his scholer so manifestly teach as Causaeus a French Protestant called him for his labour a doating old Causaeus Dial. 5. 11. In capt Babilonica man much like as his father Luther had said before him that Areopagita his workes were like to dreames and most pernicious The same faith vvas taught of Saint Ignatius Clemens Iustinus Tertullian Cyprian Irenaeus and in one vvord all the anncient Fathers not one excepted G. ABBOT WHen Thomas Pilcher sometimes an vnworthy fellow of a Colledge in Oxford but afterward an vnlearned Priest of the Seminary after pardon once given him for his life and beeing exiled from his Countrey returned againe into Englande to pervert the subiectes of her late Maiestie he vvas by arrest of lawe to be brought to execution vvhere as I haue heard being remembred by an intelligent person that he should bee well advised what the right or wronge of the cause was for which hee did suffer his reply was that if hee were in an errour then Irenaeus and Iustine Martyr Tertullian and Origene Lactantius Hilary Chrysostome Ambrose Hierome Austen Gregorie Bearnarde and all other the olde Fathers of the Primitiue Church vvere mightily deceived for what he held they taught The silye man had much adoe to learne the names of all these but for reading any of them or for knowing what they vvrote there bee many yet living who dare safely giue their word that he good man was never troubled with it This is the very case of the greatest part of you Papists you wil speak without the book and make good little of that which you say but yet for lacke of chalenging facing it out you will loose nothing of antiquity And among al your copes-mates as one that knoweth least and therfore dareth to say most you lay about you here for al al againe You are now come to your selfe revested with your olde spirite and therefore wee will looke for a legion of Vniversals at your handes The vn-Catholike Romane Religion it is Papistry which you meane is not onely taught or plainly taught but most plainelie taughte not by some but by all the ancient Fathers of the first sixe ages after Christ and hath beene not sometimes but ever not doubtingly but without all controversie taught of the Fathers of each age vntill this day If you had a fore-heade lefte and knevve vvhat you did saye vvhich I thinke you doe not but onely take vp this speech on the word of other men you would blush a whole yeare togither at this your owne absurdity and by that time woulde this rubour bee so setled in your face that it would never out For that I may plucke you a little backe by the sleeue doth Saint Augustine and Orosius Fulgentius and Bernard where they of purpose handle the argument teach as you do teach cōcerning the freenesse of Gods grace every way and touching free will a In pref 1. 5 Bibli Sāct Sixtus Senensis shall condemne you who reiecteth Saint Augustines doctrine in that behalfe Doe Lactantius and
in his Cōmētaries on the Prophets you cānot deny so it overturneth your reasō that those who were neerest to the Apostles should do best by taking it fresh frō thē so frō hand to hand For some of the later did not only equall but farre exceed those who were their fore-runners as Chrysostome in the Greeke Church may shewe Yet vnderstand all this that we haue no matter of moment in any point of religion nor scant any interpretation of Scripture but wee vndertake to advouch it from some or more of the Fathers in one place or other of their writings where they hādle those things It is Popery which lately crept in that hath with the Glosses therof declined both the sēce of the holy Ghost of the old Fathers while the pleasures of Popes the quiddities of the barbarous schoolmē have perverted almost the whole face of Divinity brought it to curious speculatiōs vnprofitable questiōs Whē you put it to trial you shal see that we are not so destitute of the Fathers for the proofe of our religion the exposition of texts nor so altogither vnstudied and illiterate as you in your weake vnderstanding imagine vs. Touching the imputation of profanenesse you shall heare of me heereafter Luther in capt Bap. Causaeus vbi supra Centuriat centur 2 c 10. Calvin instit cap 13 num 29. Centur 2 cop 5 Causaeus dialog 8 11 6 Bez◅ in Act Apost cap 23. T. HILL BUT indeede it is no marveile though the Protestants do contēne yea revile the Fathers in saying they taught thinges most like to dreames they were doating olde men they had foule blemishes and tolde trifling tales they had weedes and dregges blaspemies and monsters they were childish dull and destitute of God and babbled they knew not what they were bewitched of the Devil as damned as the Devill blasphemers naughtie wicked G. ABBOT 5 HEere you bring a prety beade-roll of such fragmēts as you have scraped to gither out of some of our side who as you thinke haue perstringed diverse of the Fathers or at least by your perverting or distorting of their wordes you would haue the world to thinke that they haue shrewdly galled thē Wherin you are much to be cōmēded that to make the better shew both in your text margēt you bring vs the same things quotatiōs againe out of Causaeus Luther which in this very Chap. but one leafe before you delivered vnto us This is no rare matter in your writers for your n In Matth. 16 18 Rhemists play a pretier part then that when meaning to spare for no cost to prooue Peter to be such a rocke ason whō the Church is principall built they thwacke authority vppon authority to as good purpose as they can And therfore they haue in the margēt S. Austen Serm. 26. de Sanctis and in the text S. Ambrose Serm. 68. which are both but one Sermō put in the workes of both those Fathers but in truth belonging to neither of thē Which must needs shew that Papists in their greatest matters doe either proceede idly or else of purpose they do bodge with their folowers citīg one for two as if a man should saye that in Pompeyes time o Luc lib 3◅ Plut. in Cesar Iulius broke vp the treasury at Rome and tooke out much mony and one Caesar about the same time broke open the same treasury therevpon should conclude that therfore the Treasury was twise forcibly entred into when lulius Caesar was al but one man What Luther spake was not against a Father but a counterfeit not against Dionysius Areopagita but against some meane fellowe shrowding himselfe vnder his name In K. Henry the 7. time a man might wel haue taunted p Holinshed in Henri 7. Perkin Warbeck yet not haue offended against the roial bloud in the children of K. Edwarde the 4. And the same is to be said for Causaeus who is to be imagined not to say ought against true Dionysius but against that doater who vsurpeth that name Now howe shameful a matter is it for you to bring in these as railing against the Doctors whē by distinguishing this false one frō those who be right they do coūtenāce the true as much as they discoūtenāce the fained He who saith that false mony is but brasse or copper doth not speak evil of the kings lawful wartantable coine Your first fault against the Magdeburgenses is taken out of the second q Cap. 10. Century where being ex instituto to giue their censure on the writers of that age they yeeld vnto thē al their due cōmendation of zeale in Gods cause of diligēce in preaching writing of fortitude in oppugning heresies of enduring martyrdome They shew also to what points of religiō they do speake taking on thē to shew what is amisse in divers of thē they vse these words As that the Epistles of Ignatius haue in thē some things which do seeme to incline to deformed blemishes You might haue marked that before that speech they haue doubted of the credit authority of some of those Epistles whither they properly belong to Ignatius or no. So in Papias they say there was naevus a blemish also that Clemens Alexandrinus Athenagoras had their blemishes And so of Iustinus Martyr What word can be more gently spoken then to say they had their blemishes the truth being so in such sort as no Papist can excuse it For that I may say nothing of divers things foūd in thē which with you cā be no lesse thē disputable but with vs are reputed no sound doctrine neither of some other plaine errours it is apparant that divers of thē as Papias Iustinus Martyr did hold the Millinary heresie for the same are taxed by the Century writers That which you mētiō of trofling tales if you apply it to thē is worthy to be laughed at for they haue no word of anie such matter in all that Chapter vnlesse you take it out of their narration concerning Phocas of whō they say that they passe oversome things reported by r Lib 10 Vincentius inspeculo because they seeme to be fables And what doth this detract frō the Fathers among whō I trust you put not Vincentius Phocas did vvrite nothing for ought that wee finde And it is not impossible that such a Legendary felow as Vincentius is may tel a tale of S. Hierom S. Ambros or S. Austē yet the reputatiō of these Doctors be among learned men never the worse Of Ireneus the Magdeburgenses say most mildly that he hath certaine inconvenient opinions as stubble they cite this for one which I beleeue no sober Papist will hastily mainetaine that Christ was baptized at thirty yeares of age preached at fortye and vvas crucified at fiftye And that hee helde the errour of the Chiliasts or Millenaries 6 The secōd place which you cite out of the
hungry is preferred before fasts of three daies togither 10 Fourthly to put a religious difference betweene meates as that Christians some times may feed on fish and not on flesh is Antichristian and vniustifiable superstition Those who teach this difference are within the compasse of S. Pauls prophecy calling it a doctrine of Devils when p 1. Tim. 4. 3 men forbid to mary and to abstain from meates which God hath created to be received with thanks-giving The q Ibidem Rhemists would shift this place by applying it to the Manichees and some other olde heretikes and by telling vs that the Church of Rome holdeth all meates cleane by Gods creatioÌ„ but these are simple evasions for doth the example of those ancient heretikes any way preiudicate but that there may bee such again now in the world as at this time there be Arrians as you embrace Pelagianisme a fresh and is it not more likely to be vnderstood of you then of them since they were more theÌ„ twelue hundred years agone the prophecie is that such should come in the latter times and in those we now doe liue And whereas it is confessed that you holde them not vncleane by Gods creation that maketh against you since you by your constitutions dare to repute that polluted which God hath saÌ„ctified made cleane r Tit. 1 15 Unto the pure all things are pure It is your inhibitioÌ„ which presumeth to make that vnlawful which the creatour did not so make and this is iniurious to Gods creation And yet I must tell you that there is one of yours who writing of this argument doth yeeld thereason of your prohibition of fleshe and not of fishe on fasting daies to bee from the creatures themselves made by the Almighty even Durandus who teacheth it to bee because God did not at the first curse the waters s Lib. 6â—… cup. detalijs ie â—…ijs In as much as remission of sinnes should be by the water of Baptisme for this element is most worthy which washeth away filthinesse and vpon which the Lords spirite was mooved before the making of the world But hee cursed the earth in the workes of man and hence it is that in fasting it is not lawfull to eate ante kinde of flesh which liveth on the earth as foure-footed beastes and birdes c. Neither can any Papist yeelde a better reason then this why in their fastes fishe shoulde bee eaten of and that vvith greedinesse as they permitte leave to themselves to doe VVhere I appeale to the consciences'not onely of all other vvho doe knowe them but even of our Romanistes themselves vvhether the ordinary keeping of fishe-dayes amonge such of them as be of ability bee according to the true nature of a fast to pull downe the flesh or rather to inflame it For is it not most certaine which one s Gentilet in exam CoÌ„c Tâ—…d cap 5 saith that howsoever the praiers of Papists be leane yet their fasts be fat May not a maÌ„ more delicately fast with one of theÌ„ theÌ„ feast with another person Is there any creature belonging to diet wherin more luxury may be then in fish the old t Athen. lib. 〈◊〉 3 l 8. 6 Philoxenus Apitius Lucullus al the renouÌ„ed belly-godded gluttons hasting to such refections fishe of all other provisions being bought at inestimable prices as were easy to shew out of Pliny Atheneus other both old new writers Fy therfore vpon such odious hypocrisy which thinketh to honour God with such a mockery as that their abstinence may bee the largest feeding and their fasting vvith a belly full of the most sumptuous fishe besides wine and a thousand sortes of iunkets vvhich superfluity and wanton curiosity doe yeelde to make vp Romanishe mortification UUhat doth it profire saith Saint 〈◊〉 Hierome not to eate oile and yet to seeke out certaine curious and 〈◊〉 Epistol 2 hardlye gotten meates as figges pepper nuttes dates fine cakes honye pestakes And such abstinence as this doth Saint u De moribus Manich. lib. 2 13 Austen condemne in the Manichees who would touch no fleshe and yet did feede on all the dainties that arte or witte coulde affoorde His iudgement is that the moderate eating of a peece of bacon or some other plaine fleshe is not so luxurious as that their abstinence Our doctrine in this behalfe is that x Matth 15 11. it which goeth into the mouth defileth not a man but that vvhich commeth out of the mouth defileth a man And y Rom 14. 17 The kingdome of GOD is not meate and drinke And 〈◊〉 it is good that the hearte bee stablished with grace and not vvith meates vvhich haue not profited them that Hebr 13 9 haue beene occupied therein To these thinges the auncient Fathers doe agree as Tertullian a De cibis ludaicis GOD taketh pleasure onely in our faith onely in our innoceney onely in our truth onely in our vertues which dwell not in the belly but in the minde vvhich the feare of God and awe to heaveÌ„ do get vnto vs not earthly meat And to this agreeth S. Austen b De civit Dei l 16. 37 Wee learne in eating that no man is to bee blamed for the kinde of meate but for the immodest greedinesse Yet withall we adde that for civil order and the common wealthes sake for the sparing of the provision at Land for speÌ„ding of that which coÌ„meth froÌ„ the Sea for the incouragmeÌ„t of fisherâ—…meÌ„ for farther maintenaÌ„ce imploiment of navigation on such daies as by positive lawes be appointed wee make ought to make a difference of our diet keeping such times as fish-daies by which name they are more properly called theÌ„ to be termed fasting daies This we do for civil order obedience not for that which may be termed directly an immediate acte of religion for we condemne the Romish Church for embracing that opinion Although indeede the wiser sort of that packe do hold this to bee but a small matter of religion and rather in their owne minds repute it a devise politickely to keepe people in awe or a tricke if neede bee to get good store of mony when they lift to dispence as may bee seene by that of c Genebrard l. 4 chronogr Clement the 6 who proclaiming a Croisado against the Turkes in truth to inrich himselfe after the fashion of the Popes gave every one who would pay for it a free liberty to eate egges and white meate on the Fridaies and every fasting day Lent excepted This did the Arch-bishops of Triers and Colein obtaine for their Dioceses for ever but the Arch-bishop of Mentz refusing to contribute so much mony as was required itlyeth on his Diocese to this day that they may not eate egges or other white meates on the fasting daies as in the other tvvo Bishops lurisdictions it is permitted How much happier did the coine make the
there-about 12 I might adde some other circumstances appertaining to fasting as that there ought to bee no opinion of merite in it since our best vvorkes are in themselves defective and our very p Isai 64. 6. righteousnesse is but like to a menstruous cloath but our request must bee that GOD vvill accepte the vvorke for his CHRISTES sake Also that it bee not in hypocrisy as theirs was whome CHRIST q Mat 6 161 reprooved for making a shevv before men or as that of the Pharisee vvas vvho toulde the r Luc 18. 12. Lorde that hee fasted twise in the vveeke Of such abstinence as this is Saint Cyprian doth speake s De ieiunio christl Fasting doth oftentimes puffe vp a man and doth driue him to pride and hypocrisie Lastly there must bee as greate a care to abstaine from sinne as from meate The Prophet s Cap 58 6 Esay doth most significantly expresse this Is not this the fasting vvhich I haue chosen to loose the bandes of vvickednesse to take of the heavie burthens and to let the oppressed goe free and that yee breake everie yoake And the Fathers of the Church doe frequently ingeminate it as Origene t Homil. â—…ot in Levitic Fast from all sinne take no meate of malice eate no dainties of pleasure So Basile u In Isaiâ—… Not by and by in the forbearing of meate is that force of the minde vvhere-with wee contend to perfection sufficient of it selfe vnlesse the soule doe stedfastly settle it selfe in all kinde of abstinence from those thinges vvhich doe maintaine naughtinesse For as a man consisteth of a bodie and a soule so there are tvvo-folde meates c. Saint Ambrose speaketh yet more plainely u Serm 33 This is the vvill of the LORDE that vvee shoulde fast from meates and also from sinnes That vve shoulde enioyne our bodie abstinence that vvee may the more vvith dravve our soules from vices for a bodie vvhich is dravvne drie is a bridle to a luxurious soule I vvill shutte this vp vvith the speech of Gregorie x Homil. 16 in 40 Homilijs To sanctifie a fast is ioyning other good thinges to shevve an abstinence of the fleshe vvorthie of GOD. Let anger cease let chiding bee allayed For the fleshe is pulled downe in vaine if the minde be not refrained from her evill pleasures Thus you see what our Church holdeth concerning fasting we allow and commend it and teach it as well as you but wee iumpe not with you in your Iewishe superstitions we attribute no saÌ„ctity to the differeÌ„ce of meats neither in religioÌ„ do we hold our selves tied to daies of true fasting although by civil lawes which are to bee obeyed for conscience sake we are tied to fish daies God accepteth not the one foode before the other True fasting is to receive no sustenaÌ„ce or very little as may be seene by the y Ionas 3 7 Ninivits who did eate no food drinke no water so will good Christians deale by themselues wheÌ„ others do not know it on such daies as in their own hart they appropriate to that vse for we haue a liberty so to do as Origen telleth vs A z Homil 10 in Levitic Christian hath liberty to fast at any time not with superstition of observation but with the vertue of containing And thus farre haue I followed you concerning fasting daies Now some thing also touching Lent 13 Your proposition is that Lent and fasting daies were kept in the time of the old Fathers as you keepe them now I haue in part shewed the vanity of that assertioÌ„ for the one already Now let vs see for the other When the first keeping of a Lent began it is hard to say S. Hierome ascribeth the or daining therof to the Apostles For a Episto 54 he shewing the difference betweene the Orthodoxe and the Montanistes amonge other matters saith that the Montanists yearely kept three Lents but we doe fast one Lent in the whole yeare according to the tradition of the. Apostles And this place doth b De inventorib Rer. lib. 6. 3. Polydore Virgil cite out of Hierome as referring the institution of Lent to the Apostles of Christ. But we are of opinion that in this matter Hierome is favourably to be vnderstoode at calling that which was auncient and the set beginning wherof vvas not distinctly knowne by the name of an Apostolicall tradition but no way being able to prooue that by them it was ordained The reasons of this our assertion are first that vvee thinke it cannot bee found in any of the writers of the first three hundred yeares vvho lived neerest to the dayes of the Apostles that they decreed it Origene speaketh of Lent but goeth not so farre Wee haue the daies of Lent consecrated vnto fastings Secondlye if the Apostles had ordained it they woulde haue set Homil. 10 in Levitic downe some order and manner of it in one vniformity to all the Church but of that wee finde no steppe or marke amonge those of the Primitiue times but exceeding greate disagreement many vvaies as forth-vvith I shall declare Thirdly vve finde some-what expresly to the contrary and that not where this matter is touched obiter and slightlye as by Hierome but vvhere the vvhole state of Lent is of purpose rifled and discussed as shall presently be touched Eusebius d Eccl hist lib 5. 24 speaking of the heate of Victor the Romane Bishoppe in excommunicating the Easterne Churches for not iumping vvith the VVesterne in the circumstaunces of observing Easter signifieth vvithal that the Bishoppes of the VVest did much dislike the attempte of Victor Amongst other Ireneus vvho lived in Fraunce writeth to Victor aboute it vvhose vvordes Eusebius citeth thus This controversio is not onelye of the date of Easter but also of the order and manner of the Fast. For some doe thinke that they oughte to fast one daie others two diverse more maâ—…te fortie and they doe measure and make vp the daie reckoning all the houres of the dait and night And such varietye and difference of those vvho observed these fastes did not beginnâ—… in our age but longe before amonge our anncesters vvho as a man may gesse did not strictly obserue the custome of them vvho tither by a certaine simplicitis or by a private authoritye had determined some thing against future time Thus the case of Lent stoode most vncertainelye aboute two hundred yeares or lesse after Christes birth and Ireneus saieth that this difference had beene also amonge their predecessours much before so that hitherto wee may vvell collecte that in the first Church there vvas no determinate vniforme certainety in the keeping of Lent which doubtlesse had not beene vvanting if the Apostles had been the erecters or founders thereof 〈◊〉 Socrates hath a longe tract Eccl. Hist. lib 5 21 first concerning the keeping of Easter which he plainely saith grewe to be diversly observed among men by
these plaine and evident matters it may appeere whether the Romanists or we doe truely make more reckoning of the Fathers since wee yeelde them so much authority as belongeth to auncient godly and learned men noble lampes in the Primitive Church and great illustratours of the truth they in substance overthrow all this since we conserving them they corrupt them and either raze or adde to or pervert such sentences sayings of the Doctours as any way impeach their Romish Hierarchy wherby as vsurpers they raigne and dominere in the consciences of men and women FINIS To the Christian Reader IT is now about one yeare and a halfe agone that beeing intreated to aunswere this Pamphlet which is more fraught with malice and bitter speaking then with truth or learning in behalfe of my poore countrey-men abused by these Seminarians I vndertooke it And albeit for the whole yeere following I was sufficiently burthened with my ordinary businesse therein for the space of 9. or 10. weeks sicke and much weakened with a sharpe and vehement fever yet my desire to dispell these foggy mists of Popery was such that within the compasse of that time I drew vp the first Copy of an Answere to 16. of these Romish Reasons Wherein rather desiring to giue to the Reader a substantial then a flight satisfaction I found by probable coniecture that even so much would grow to a reasonable volume and the like course heere-after being taken with the latter part of D. Hils book there also might arise a work of like proportion Vpon this conceit I fell to revising writing out to the Presse that which formerly I had done and therein by Gods blessing I went so farre that now 6. moneths since I finished so much as heere is published some few interlacings only excepted But when I shoulde haue proceeded to the perfecting vp of the other sixe a burthē was by my honorable Patrone imposed vpō me which togither with my necessary imploimēts at Winchester since that time hath so put me frō cōtēplatiō kept me in cōtinual actiō that I scant haue bin able to sustaine the waight of the daily cōtingent perpetually incūbent busines as is apparant to every mā acquainted with mine estate And in as much as yet for a time I 'am not like to be freed from that charge I am put to this difficulty that either till I haue more leysure I must stay the Answere to these tenne Chapters being now completed by the Printer or I must send these forth without their fellowes which is much cōtrary to my former purpose Notwithstanding at the last I haue resolued vpon the latter of these two courses being the rather inclined thervnto because a learned man of the other Vnivetsity hath lately vn-quartered the whole Quartron of D. Hils Reasons which peradventure in the iudgement of many men may seeme so good a satisfaction to that which the adversarie hath obiected that my future labours in this Argument may very well be spared For this cause my purpose is giving way to my present necessarie services to attend and expect for a while the iudgement and Censure of men wise and learned in our Church and afterwarde to proceede or not proceede as occasion hall require In the meane time I may say that the mainest and principallest bulwarkes of the Romish religion are these which I haue already assaulted and it is as easie a matter to go forward with the rest as it hath beene to deale with these Before persons which are wilfully ignoraunt or perverse togither with their learning Popery may bear some shew but with such as haue the skill to displaye it or the grace to endure the dismasking of it it is but a painted Iesabell Only herein the vnsearchable iudgement of God is to bee admired and his waies which are past finding out are to be wondered at and that with amasement and astonishment that there should yet be so many who haue eies and see not eares and heare not yea harts and vnderstand not but still go forward to make vp the number of the servitors of the beast and of the traine of Antichrist who must haue some to adore him till the dissolution of the worlde But to the ende that such among our Popish Countrey-men as are ordained to salvation may be plucked out of the fire it behoveth vs who are the Ministers of the Gospell to be diligent in preaching the Gospell to such as wil heare and in writing for such as will reade that they may know and beleeue and be saved For the better accomplishing wherof and for the instruction of the ignorant who most readylie are seduced I haue taken these paines endevouring to deliver plainely and without obscurity that which I haue to saie And for the cleering of all my Doctors both general and particular suggestions tracing him step by step besides discussing the maine drifte of his Reasons togither with the validity of those Arguments which others for the strengthening of the Romane perfidiousnesse doe or may rest therevpon And yet in fitting my selfe to the capacity of the vnlearned I haue not beene altogither forgetful to giue some cōtentment to men of more knowledge wherin how farre I haue gone it is not for me but for others to iudge But whereas I haue once made mention of the expelling of the Iesuites out of Fraunce and the sharpe Edict which was there against thē and now the report is strong that vpon some cōditions they are restored thither again to the truth wherof in particular I must ingenuously cōfesse that I cannot yet attaine the difference of time being waighed will easily aunswere for that matter it beeing certainelie here-tofore one waie and nowe peradventure another In respect whereof it is not amisse to know that as it was longer agone that the Copy writtē for the Presse was finished so it is fiue moneths since that the Printer began with this booke howsoever sometimes this worke hath beene interrupted one while with the danger of the Pestilence which of late hath beene so generally spreade another while with the publishing of divers other linal tracts which the present occasion did offer And this also may serue for Answer to another point wherin my charity presumed more quietnes in some men amōgst vs thē thēselues are willing to yeeld correspōdence vnto Nevertheles I trust that this is but a fit that time and experience will giue rest to the most vnquiet and restlesse soirits Lastly I earnestly intreate al Romishly affected English men women that they be not so ready to harken to Iesuits Seminary men as here-tofore they haue bin to follow their lures either in spirituall or temporall matters What they can say for their Idolatry superstitiō is long since known neither haue they yet brought ought of moment but hath received answer And for their other behaviour whither it be cōmēdable Christiā or no let their own books between the
Catholikes ever sought the death of their Soveraigne though of a different religion from thē the conquest of their natiue land the subversion of the state the depopulation of the weale publike the alteration and change of all lawes customes and orders and in few the vtter devastation desolation and destruction of all the ancient inhabitants of their land c. Now if this may be saide of the laity of the English Papists what censure may bee given of the Priests the vrgers and instigatours of all these things He speaketh elsewhere more particularly of the Seminary Priests y Quod. 9. 4 Howe can they expect any favor when they are taken none can deny that their comming over is to increase the number of Catholikes and that Fa. Persons raigneth and hath the whole direction at this day for all the missions that are for England How then alas how may her Maiestie and the state conclude against them What lawes can bee too extreame to keepe them out of the land Or if they will needes come in what severity for the execution of lawes against them can bee more then sufficient Into what gulfe are we plunged Nay into what an obloquy are we plunged Nay into what an obliquie must the Catholike Church of Rome grow in that the execution of Priesthood and treason are now so linked together by the Iesuits in England as we cannot exhort any to the Catholike faith but dogmatizando in so doing we draw him in effect to rebellion You see that this writer doth not sumble nor doubly budgen but delivereth his opiniō roundly And if any one should except that these be the assertions of private and single men hee may see a treatise put out by ioint consent of divers Seculars and written of purpose to cleere the proceedings of the State in England from bloudy cruelty or vn-advised rigorousnes in cutting of such rotten members You may iudge the contentes thereof by the Title which is this z Edit An. 1601. Important considerations which ought to mooue all true and sounde Catholikes who are not wholy Iesuited to acknowledge without all equivocations ambiguities or shiftings that the proceedings of her Maiestie and of the State with them since the beginning of her Highnesse raigne haue beene both milde and mercifull By this time if there bee any wit or sence left in you you may put vp your pipes for complaining of the hard vsage of Priests sent hither from the Seminaries I haue beene the more large in this argument partly to stop your clamorous mouth and partelye to satisfie weake persons either on our or your side and not least of all to free the honorable Parliamentes and Magistrates taking order against such venimous vermine from the forged imputations and scandalous defamations in this particular laid against them by name of him a Supposed to bee D. Worthington who falsly reporteth the suffering of sixteene pretended martyrs in one yeere that is the yeere of Iubily 1600. Now I follow your steps againe where I left 21. When you fall to daring you shewe your selfe but a simple man There is one by whose helpe David did dare leape b Psa. 18. 29 34. over a wall and to attempt with his armes to breake a bow of brasse by whose protection in a righteous cause that England which by a diminution you call litle doth dare to stand against the strongest enemy that it hath What should hinder it good Sir to cut of lewde persons wherewithall God is well pleased when the late Queene thereof at her entrance to the Crowne did not feare all the Potentates in the world nor the backwardnesse of many of her owne subiectes nor the combining almost of all her owne Cleargy but that in the name of God and in the vndanted confidence of his maintaining of his owne truth shee did spread the banner of the Gospell and without discouragement did persist in that resolution till the day of her death the English fugitiues and the Irish Male-contents yea the Pope and Spaniard contriving to the vttermost to impeach it Why shoulde not this our country dare to doe well when by the singular favour of God blessing his true religion in it it hath beene able to repel that invincible Navy to sacke many of the kings townes in the West Indies to batter his Groine in Galitia to march with ensigne displayed almost an hundred miles in the heart of his countrey to knocke at his gates of Lisbone to sinke his fleete at Cales and to burne that towne at pleasure the Spanyards looking on scant offering to strike one blow The time hath beene that this England which is such a little more in your eie hath sent c Holinshed in Rich. 1 Edw. 3. Hen. 5. 6. a mightie army as farre as to Palestina hath had two kings prisoners in it at once and two of her owne Kinges crowned in Paris And hee is blind who seeth not that at this time it hath decayed no part of her ancient valure or worth Then do you never feare but it may dare to execute such companions of yours as will heere disturbe the peace of the Church Common-wealth Now that it grieveth your pretty heart that you haue not your will among vs I doe verily beleeue and do not you thinke that wolues beares doe much grieue that they cannot come at the sheep-folds but the shepheards will meets with them As our d Luk. 23. 28 Saviour somtime said to the women of Hierusalem that they should not weep for him but for themselues and their children so wee may bid you not to grieue for the evil case of England but to be sory weep for your sinnes and most malicious blindnesse that God without his more future mercy should giue you over to a reprobate sence so as to fly truth and to hate it to barke against the light to cary vndutifull thoughts to your Superiours and vn-natural to your countrey where the Lord be praised for it there is nothing vnhappy vnlesse it bee that it hath hatched into the world such vipers such monsters who care not what become of her so that Sathā may be king Antichrist may be general How your brethrē are persecuted with plenty ease aboūdance not lōg since I told you The wiser sort of thē cannot but acknowledge as evē now you heard that no Prince vnder the heavē being so zealous in Gods cause having sustained such indignities at the hands of many of that factiō as our late most Christiā Queen had done would haue proceeded with that mildnes For the māner of your speech you are now returned to your old custome again Here is nothing but all'all How al the world hath embraced your profession I haue shewed you before The ancienter part of the Primitiue Church knew almost nothing of it the latter part of the first 600. years had some weeds cōming vp in it but the good corn over-topped
promise himselfe or other that hee should haue such sights or predictions neither is there any CoÌ„mandement to test ought in religion thervpon but rather there is much more to the coÌ„trary For we heare ofteÌ„ of false Prophets Christ biddeth vs o Mat 7 15 beware of them Before that HierusaleÌ„ should be destroyed which is a figure of the end of the world he saith that p Cap 24 11 many false Prophets should arise should deceiue many And if the rule bee true that where miracles be there also are visions theÌ„ it is one of Antichrists mark to stand on dreames apparitions for we are tolde that he shall come q 2 The 2 9 with all power signes lying wonders But to put al out of question it is added that his manifestation shall be with all deceiueablenes of vnrighteousnes therfore we may rightly collect that these visions or rather fraudulent fictious and illusions must not be wanting How shal we then iudiciously imagine that this may be a reason to conclude for truth when it selfe is fully out as much communicable to vntruth It were easie to shew that among heathen men this was a frawde vsed to set colours vpon their actions The conference of 〈◊〉 Numa with Egeria 〈◊〉 Liv. lib 11 the Nymph about his lawes The dayly going of s Id. lib 26 Scipio into the Capitol as if he had talked with Iupiter the dreames of Alexander and other prodiges expounded by s Curt. lib. 4. 7. Aristander the hart or hinde which t Plut in Sertorio Sertorius pretended to come to him as a messenger from the Goddes do come within this compasse and are directly here appliable or at the least equivalent to that which is now handled As for Mahomet he is in the beliefe of his followers inferior to no Prophet that ever spake his whol Alcorane being nothing els but instructions preteÌ„ded to be delivered by apparitioÌ„s And therfore it is u Coel. Aug Curio Sarac hist l. 1â—… writteÌ„ of him that somtimes he wold say that the Angel Gabriel was ofteÌ„ times sent to him being much troubled with the falling sicknes hee bore those in hande which were about him that his fits were trances he was in soule wrapped vp into heaveÌ„ he was inspired froÌ„ God to teach divers duties vnto men In breefe this is it wherin not only the old u Eus. l. 5. 16 MoÌ„tanists did take on theÌ„ to excel Merline to whoÌ„ as x In praefat Neubringensis saith Gâ—…lfridus MonumetheÌ„sis doth attribute no lesse theÌ„ we do to Isaiah saving that it is not inserted into Merlines prophecy Thus saith the Lord. But the Anabaptists herein wil put downe the whole world for they with sad couÌ„tenance a little lesse theÌ„ ravished looks would protest that they had y Sleid l. 10 illuminations revelatioÌ„s apparitioÌ„s for all their lewd coÌ„ceits their having wiues as many as they list their oppugning of magistrates their murthering of their own brethren as one did at 〈◊〉 Sangallum cutting 〈◊〉 Surius Com Ann 1527. of his brothers heade in the presence of his father and mother and affirming that God had reveiled vnto him that so hee must doe And how shall it bee in mans power to discerne these false visions from true ones but by the word and spirit of God by singular diligence which since it cannot be in every one the allowing of these visions dreams is most dangerous for Christians First it is possible that a maÌ„ himselfe either sleeping or waking may be deluded by SathaÌ„ which as coÌ„cerning illusions by dreams a Mor 8 13 Gregory notably sheweth to be true giveth warning to take heed of theÌ„ And secoÌ„dly how easy a thing is it for a cuÌ„ning coÌ„panioÌ„ who is his crafts-master to inveÌ„t such tales to sweare theÌ„ also as he did who affirmed that he b Liv lib 1 saw the ghost of Romulus at Rome In Popery there were thousands and ten thousands of these inventions thereby to establish their Masses Dirges Tran. substantiation Purgatory and such stuffe and by these the simple were extremely beguiled their beleefe corrupted and their purses picked They who could write that Saint c NOV leg Angl. in vita Dunstan Dunstane wheÌ„ he was awake saw the Divell and talked with him a while and at last with a paire of tonges redde hot caught him by the face pulled him toward him and made him most pitifully cry would litle blush to report other matters of men halfe or quite a sleepe of which sort are the visions in the Saints liues God Almighty hath done much for vs who hath so farre opened our vnderstanding as to see that this is draffe and that the Papistes are in miserable case who rest ther faith and religion on such trumpery 8 That the visions of the Papacy were such fabulous fictions wise men did long since discover d Libello contra hypocritas Leonardus Aretinus hath a treatise against the Cleargy of his age but covered vnder the shew of impugning of hypocrites Among other their vsages he rehearseth this It is worth the while to heare an hypocrite preaching amongst women or amongst men so foolish that they doe not much differ from women Here are the fit auditours for their fables Hee counterfeiteth dreames as if hee vvere come from thence hee talketh of the houses of heaven which hee hath never seene With most shamelesse impudencie hee doubteth not to affirme things fained for things done things never seene for those which haue beene seene The womeÌ„ infatuated with these words returne home they extoll him as a holy man and a friends of God they send him presents they returne vnto him with a greater company By this meanes very good cheere is made His iourneces puffe vp his nose that is as I thinke fill him with new matter He in the mean time like a Poet doth devise dreames which hee may reporte Thus did some of them invent matter touching themselues and some that which concerned other men And oftentimes the wit of one went not alone but there were metings conspiracies to frame devises for purposes The matter of 〈◊〉 Elizabeth Barton the Nun 〈◊〉 Acta Parl. sub Hen 8. An. 25 c 12 in Kent was so vsed in the daies of King Henry the 8 when among her companions much was spread to commende her sanctity many things divulgated of her visions and all the country was set a gogge vpon her words yea Fisher himselfe the Bishop of Rochester either disloyally and dishonestly as concealing or ignorantly and simply as beleeving was a partaker in that forgery But the matter was nothing but to discountenance the kings divorce from the Queene Katherine of Spain formerly his brother Prince Arthures wife and to stirre the people to rebellion therevpon And at last all was confessed by the Nunne her selfe and other her Complices and by Act of Parliament