all men because it is saied 1. Tim. 2. v. 6. One Mediator of God and men the man Iesus Christ they limite this to the elect faithfull Beza Epist 28. It is false that Christ is mediator also of the infidels In like sorte Hunnius de Iustif pag. 179. restraineth that saying Hebr. 5. ver 9. He was made to all that obey him cause of eternall saluation to obedience in faith If we proue that vnwritten traditions of faith are to be Touching Traditions beleiued because S. Paul saieth without limitation 2. Thessal 2. ver 15. Stand and hould the traditions which you haue learned whether it be by word or by our epistle they limite this to onely traditions of rites or ceremonies Whitaker Contr. 1. q. 6. cap. 10. Other Protestantes thinke that Paul speaketh of certaine externall matters and rites of no great moment Academia Nemaus Resp ad Tournon pag. 554. By the word Tradition in the Apostles writings is meant ether the application and right handling of doctrine or the appointing of rites and discipline If we proue that Christ committed all his sheepe to S. Touching S. Peter Peter because without anie limitation he saieth to him Ioan. 21. v. 17. Feed my sheepe Whitaker Cont. 1. q. 5. cap. 5. answereth Christ doth not say to Peter Feed all my sheepe but speaketh indefinitely And Beza ib. in vers 15. Must Gods word be thus profaned Surely Christ did not adde All and the difference betwixt vniuersall and indefinite propositions is well knowne As if Protestants did not as well limitate vniuersall propositions as indefinite as appeared in the former chapter Besides Daneus Contr. 3. p. 127. faithfull An indefinite What Protest say of an indefinite proposition proposition is equiualent to an vniuersall And Caluin in 1. Ioan. 3. v. 3. An indefinite speach is as much as an vniuâ—â—sall And 4. Instit c. 17. § 29. It is our parte whatsoeuer is absolutely spoake of Christ so to embrace as without exception that take place with vs which he would say If we proue that the Church is alwaies famous and visible Touching the Church because Isaie c. 2. v. 2. saieth without limitation of time And in the latter dayes the mountaine of the house of our Lord shall be prepared in the top of mountaines and shal be eleuated aboue the litle hilles and all nations shall flow vnto it Et c. 61. ver 9. And they shall know their seed in the Gentils and their budde in the middest of peoples And Miche 4. v. 8. And the remanent of Iacob shall be in the Gentils in the middest of manie peoples as a Lion amoÌ„g the beasts of the forest Whitaker Contr. 2. q. 2. c. 2. answereth The Prophets foretell that no kingdome shal be so glorious no cittie so ample no Empire so large as the Church shal be in the times of the Messias But we neuer read that the Lord hath promised that this maiestie and glorie of the Church shal be constant and perpetuall Et Morton in Apolog. part 1. l. 1. c. 13. The league is indeed perpetuall but this so admirable successe is not alwaies so vniuersall but in a manner peculiar to the age of the Apostles If we proue that the Pastors of the Church be alwaies visible because Christ saieth of them Math. 5. v. 15. A cittie cannot be hid situated vpon a mountaine Whitaker loc cit answereth Albeit Christ say that godlie Doctors and Pastors shall not be obscure nor escape the sight of men yet he saieth not that there shal be alwaies such Doctors which may be as visible as mountaines If we proue that the Church is the pillar of all trueth of faith because S. Paul 1. Timoth. 3. ver 15. without anie limitation calleth her the pillar and strength of trueth Whitake Contr. 2. q. 4. c. 2. answereth In this place is meant not simply all trueth but onely necessarie trueth And Vorstius in Antibel p. 143. The Apostle speaketh not of euerie trueth that howsoeuer pertaineth to religion but onely of holesome trueth or which is necessarie to saluation and that conditionally also to wit so long as she shall remayne the true Church of Christ If we proue that the Church is alwaies infallible in faith because without limitation to anie time she is called loc cit The pillar and strength of trueth P. Martyr in locis clas 4. c. 4. § 21. saieth I graunt She is indeed the pillar of trueth but not alwaies but when she relieth vpon the word of God Confessio Heluet. c. 17. She erreth not as long as she relieth vpon the rock Christ and the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles Daneus Contr. 4. p. 717. The place of Paul speaketh of the visible Church which on earth is the keeper of heauenlie doctrine so long as she is true Bullinger Dec 4. Serm. 5. The Church erreth not so long as she heareth the voice of her Spouse and Pastor Herbrandus in Compend loc de Eccles She erreth not so long as she houldeth and followeth the word of God Of we proue that the Church is to be heard simply in all things because our Sauiour without anielimitation saieth Math. 18. v. 19. If he will not heare the Church let him be to thee as an Ethnik and Publican Whitaker lib. 1. de Scriptura c. 13. sect 1. answereth The Sonne of God himselfe commanded to heare the voice of the Church but not preaching anie thing but Scripture Herbrand loc cit saieth the Church is to be heard as long as she preacheth heauenlie and incorrupt doctrine Moulins in his Buckler p. 84. limitateth this speach of Christ to quarrels betwixt particular men and not to questions of religion The like saied Feild l. 4. de Eccles c. 4. and others If we proue that the Church in teaching cannot erre because Isaias saieth c. 59. v. 21. This is my couenant with them saieth our Lord My spirit is in thee and my words which I haue put in thy mouth shall not departe out of thy mouth and out of the mouth of thy seed and out of the mouth of thy seeds seed saieth our Lord from this present for euer Whitaker libr. 1. de Scriptura cap. 11. sect vlt. answereth This promise is not made to the teaching Church but to the whole Church that is to the elect If we proue that the militant Church is perpetuall because the Scripture saieth that Christs kingdome shal be perpetuall Daneus Contr. 4. p. 718. answereth All these places and the like properly pertaine to that Church which God shall gather in heauen not on earth If we proue that the visible Church is alwaies the true Church because she is called 1. Timoth 3. the pillar of trueth Daneus loc cit pag. 721. answereth Let him know that the visible Church then and so long is saied to be the true Church as long as the voice of heauenlie and Euangelicall trueth soundeth in her If we proue that the visible Church cannot
speeches of Protestants as it was to me to write them out let him runne ouer the Summe which I make of their words or by the notes in the margent chuse which are fittest to his purpose And thus much for the māner of my proceeding in this booke 11. The profit of this work is manifould First because by it a short and easie way may be taken to make an end The profits of this worke of all controuersies and that out of Scirpture alone as Protestants desire to wit by mere rehearsall of the expresse words of Scripture of Catholiks and of famous Protestants touching 260. articles of controuersie For if it appeare that catholikes in 260. articles agree both in word and sense with the expresse words of Scripture and these spoken of purpose to declare her meaning vnto vs and that Protestants in those 260. articles directly contradict the said words and sense of the holie Scripture no man will doubt but that all Protestant doctrin for as it is contrarie to the Catholik is also contrarie to the holie Scripture An other commoditie is that in this booke are gathered those places of Scripture and they ranked according to order of their matters which in 260. articles directly and in their proper and vsual sense do approue the Catholik doctrin and condemne the Protestant A third commoditie is that hereby are at hand in euerie kind of controuersie such sayings of famous Protestants as not onely directely crosse the Scripture but also many of them are so blasphemous against God against Christ against the Saints the Church Sacraments Faith Good works so opposite to pietie vertue and religion so fauorable to vice and all licenciousnes so repugnant to reason as some Protestants will deny and others scarse beleeue that euer any of theirs taught such doctrin Whome I request The Authors fidelitie in citing Protetestants sayings to take the paines to looke vpon the bookes and places by me alledged and then to beleeue their owne eyes For I not onely gathered their sayings out of their owne bookes but also after I had my self gathered them and caused them to be faire copied out I diligently conferred them with their books and admitted none which he that read their bookes did non find to be truly cited out of them Wherfore I say for my self as Caluin said for him self against Gentilis There shal be no colour for them to cōplaine that they are slandered seing I request that iudgmēt be made of their impietie out of their owne mere words And they who haue had to deale with Protestants ether by word or writing know well how important a thing it is to be able to conuince them that they teach that which in in very deed they teach which may clearly be done by their sayinges here rehearsed 12. The fourth commoditie of this worke is thar hereby shall appeare that almost in all controuersies which betwene Catholiks and Protestants Catholiks do stick fast to the very words of Scripture and religiously keepe her letter and forme of speech and Protestants goe fare from the words at lest of Scripture and bring in a different yea quite opposit forme of speech Nether ought they to think this to be a small fault both because they boasting of the pure and expresse word of God ought also to keep the very letter thereof and not to reiect it and to vse the contrarie as also because the Apostle commandeth to auoide profane nouelties of words and to keepe the 1. Timoth. 6. 2. Timoth. 1. forme of holesome words which we haue learned of him which commandment they do not follow who forsake the Scriptures forme of speech and embrace the contrarie and finally because not onely the sense but also the words and forme of speech vsed by the Scripture did proceed from the holie Ghoste and therefore it is sacrilegious audacitie to reiect Gods words and Gods forme of speaking and to bring in mans words and fashion of speaking quite contrarie As if these new Ghospelers should teach God how to deliuer his mind or he ment to speake otherwise by them then he did by his Prophets Apostles and Euāgelists wherefore their impietie is not to be borne withall who when the Scripture most often and most plainly calleth the beleefe of wicked men or reprobats faith and neuer denieth it to be faith yet dare say that it Caluin 3. Instit c. 2. §. 10. is vnworthie the name of faith When the Scripture often times and most directly calleth the Eucharist the bodie of Christ and not once directly denieth it to be his bodie yet dare say it is not his bodie And the like they doe in many other matters wherin if they controll not the meaning of the holie Ghoste at least they correct his speech and reforme it according to the square of their new doctrin Far otherwise proceeded the holie Fathers who would not suffer so much as a letter or syllable of the holie Scripture to be altered And as S. Austin grauely aduertized Philosophers may speake as they please but we speake according Lib. 10. de Ciuit. c. 23. to a certaine rule lest licencie in words breed impious opinions of the thing which they signifie Yea Protestants them selues some times will seeme to be very carefull of the words and phrases of Scripture For thus speaketh Luther If the In Confutat Latomi f. 227 Scripture terme any thing sin beware thou beest not moued by any words of theirs who as if they could speake better deny it to be sin And Caluin There is to be taken out of Scripture a 1. Instit c. 13. §. 3. certaine forme of thinking speaking by which all the thoughts of our mynd and words of our mouth are to be examined Beza Ad defens Castell also I see that all godlie and learned Diuines haue euer taught that the holie Ghost gouerned not onely the mynd but also the tongue and pen in so much as concerning the wonders of God not onely nothing can be saied of any mā more truly or more habily but also nether so grauely nor so properly Likewise Bucer Prefat in Math. No wisdom of the flesh can reach to these misteries of the kingdome of God Therefore then we speake most plainly most perspicuously and most surely of matters of faith when we speake according to the rule and forme of Scripture And otherwhere we In Hospin part 2. Histor must learne of the Scripture and the holie Ghoste how to speake and think of euerie matter Wherefore the holie Ghost his formes of speaking ought not to be corrected according to the iudgment of our reason Thus they which if they and theires had followed we should not haue had so much speech contrarie to the Scripture 13. The fift and that no small cōmoditie is that by this worke wil be taken from ministers all their false pretense of Scripture and of the worde of God wherewith perpetually they crie that the Catholik
of faith in Christ of iustifying faith of faith of remission of sinnes The like hath Ambing apud Hospin in Concord discordi fol. 140. Beza de Praedest cont Caste l. vol. 1. p. 393. There is no mētion in the law of this benefit of free redemption by Christ For the declaratiō of this will belongeth to an other parte of Gods word which is called the Ghospell Apol. Cōf. Augustan c. de Iustific The Ghospell preacheth iustice of faith in Christ which the law doth not teach THE CONFERENCE Scripture expressely saieth that Moises wrote in the law of Christ that Moises wrote things concerning Christ That Moise commanded the people to heare Christ in all things The same say Catholiks Protestants expressely say that the law neuer knew faith in Christ that Moises cōmandeth not faith in Christ that the law knoweth nothing of faith in Christ that in the law there is no mention of free redemption in Christ that the law teacheth nothing of faith in Christ ART IX WHETHER ANY VNWRITTEN word or Traditions be to be kept SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. 2. Thessal 2. v. 15. Therefore brethren stand and hould the traditions Traditions not written to be helde which you haue learned whether it be by word or by our epistle CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME Coūcell of Trent Sess 4. The holie Coūcell doth with equall pious affection reuerently receaue and honour traditions belonging to faith or manners as ether deliuered by Christs mouth or the holie Ghost and by continuall succession conserued in the Catholik Church PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Whitaker Cont. 1. q. 3. cap. 10. We care not for vnwritten Not to be helde traditions And Contro 2. q. 5. c. 18. We acknowledge no other word then that which is written And what doctrine soeuer is not written we hould for bastard doctrine Perkins in Cathol ref Contr. 20. c. 2. We acknowledge the onely written word of God Luther Postil in ferias S. Stephani Nothing is to be affirmed Nothing but that which is expressed in Scripture which is not expressed in Scripture Iacobus Andreae l. cont Hosium p. 169. That faith is no faith but an vncertain opinion which is not grounded vpon an expresse testimonie of Scripture Wigand apud Scusselb to 7. Catal. Haeret. p. 681. Onely those doctrines whose very words or equiualent for sense are extant in the Scripture are to be tought and deliuered in the Church Caluin in Gratulat ad Praecentorem pag. 377. Nothing is to be beleiued which is not expressed in Scripture And cont versipellem pagin 353. There is no mention of vnwritten traditions Beza in Rom. 1. v. 17. Christians acknowledge no other object of this faith then the written word of God Etad Reprehens Castell p. 503. Whosoeuer beleiueth in doctrine of religion that which is not written I say he embraceth opinion for faith and an idol for God Vallada in Apol. cont Episc Luzon c. 13. In all the holie No speech of an vnwritten word Scripture there is no speech of an vnwritten word Daneus Controu 7. pag. 1350. The foundation of Christian faith is one onely to wit the word of God and that onely written Hospinian part 2. Histor Sacram. fol. 23. The Magistrates of Zurich commāded that hereafter nothing should be proposed or preached in their Church but the pure fined word of God contained in the bookes of the Prophets and Apostles THE CONFERENCE Scripture expressely teacheth that traditions as well they which are learned by word as they which are learned by writing are to be obserued Catholiks teach the same Protestants expressely teach that onely written doctrin is to be tought nothing to be beleiued but what is written onely the pure fined written word to be tought no obiect of faith but what is written nothing to be beleiued but what is expressed in Scripture and that in verie words or in equiualent sense that there is no mention of vnwritten traditions no speech of vnwritten word that they care not for vnwritten traditions A SVMME OF THIS CHAPTER OF THE WORD of God or Scripture What we haue rehearsed in this chapter doth clearly shew that Protestants do farre otherwise iudge of Scripture then the Scripture it selfe and Catholiks doe For the holie Scripture together with Catholiks teacheth that in it are some things hard to be vnderstood that it cannot be vnderstood without the light of the holie Ghost that the Ghospell is or containeth a law that it doth preach pennance and good workes reproueth sinne promiseth saluation vnder condition of good workes and is not contrarie vnto the law of God that the law of Moises commandeth faith in Christ and that vnwritten traditions are to be obserued And Protestants defend all the contrarie They shew also that Protestants steale from the Scripture Protestants steale from Scripture her excellencie wherewith she surpasseth the capacitie of mans wit and from the Ghospell that it containeth any law preacheth pennance or good workes reproueth sinne promiseth saluation vpon condition of well doing and agreement with Gods law whereby we see what a libertin Ghospell they bring in to wit such as containeth Libertin Ghospell of Protestants no law preacheth no pennance or good workes reproueth no sinne promiseth saluation without all condition of well doing and is quite contrarie to the law of God And that they steall from the law of Moises that it commandeth faith in Christ and finally they take away all the vnwritten word of God CHAPTER V. OF SAINT PETER AND THE APOSTLES ART I. WHETHER S. PETER WERE first of the Apostles SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. MATHEW 10. v. 2. And the names of the twelue S. Peter first of the Apostles Apostles be these The first Simon who is called Peter CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME C. Bellarm. l. 1. de Pontif. c. 18. Peter was put first by reason his dignitie PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Whitaker Contr. 3. q. 5. c. 3. Wheresoeuer mention is made Not first of Peter if we looke well into the place we shall find that nothing is giuen to him which agreeth not to the other Apostles And Controu 4. quaest 2. c. Paul maketh himselfe equall to Peter in all points Tindal in Fox his Acts p. 1139. S. Paul is greater then Peter by the testimonie of Christ Articuli Smalcaldici pag. 345. We giue no prerogatiue to Peter Luther in Gal. 2. to 5. This place clearely sheweth that all the Apostles had equall vocation and commission There was altogether equalitie amongst them no Apostle was greater then an other Illyricus in Praefat. lib. de Sectis It appeareth that Christ gaue no primacie at all in his Church to any man Caluinus in Matth. 20. v. 25. Christ shewed that in his kingdome No primacie or firstnesse there was no primacie for which they contended Beza in Matth. 10. v. 2. What if this word First were added of some who would establish Peters primacie Festus Homius disput 12. All the Apostles were equall in dignitie authoritie
AFFIRME D. Stapleton Cont. 1. q. 2. art 1. The Catholik doctrine is that there is but one Church which we professe in our Creed and that she consisteth of the elect and reprobate PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Whitaker Cont. 2. q. 1. c. 7. We say that the Church consisteth Reprobates not of the Church indeed not of reprobates but of onely predestinate Agayne A reprobate may seeme to be of the Church but he cannot be indeed of the Church And q. 5. c. 3. That is a false Church which consisteth of reprobates Rainalds in Apol. Thes p. 170. I determine that the elect alone are contained in the Church of the Creed M. Perkins de praedest tom 1. col 154. A reprobate is but in Onely in shew members of the Church shew onely a member of Christ Abbats in Diatribam Thomsoni c. 8. Reprobates are not reputed in the Church Caluin in 1. Ioan. 2. v. 19. Ihon plainly pronounceth that they Neuer members of the Church who falle away were neuer members of the Church Beza in Confes cap. 5. sect 8. As for the rest Beside the elect they are not be numbred among the members of the Church albeit they were Apostles Daneus Cont. 4. p. 689. The true Church of God containeth onely his elect Pareus Colloq Theol. 1. disput 12. The reprobate are not truely and indeed of the Church nor belonge vnto it before God Not truely of the Church Sadeel in Refutat Posnan c. 4. Reprobates pertaine not to the true Church And Musculus in the former article will not so much as the name of the Church to be bestowed vpon the reprobates THE CONFERENCE Scripture expressely teacheth that those who are to be be cast out and to be burnt with vnquenchable fire that is reprobates are in the kingdome of heauen and in the flore of God that is in his Church Catholiks say the same Protestants expressely teach that reprobates are not in the Church not in the true Church not in the Church of the Creed not indeed not before Good that the Church the true Church containeth onely the elect that the re-reprobates onely in shew and apparence can be of the Church that they deserue not the name of the Church that she is a false Church which consisteth of the reprobates ART IV. WHETHER THE CHVRCH continueth euer SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. Mathew 16. vers 18. Thou art Peter and vpon this rock Church inuincible will I build my Church and the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it Luke 1. v. 33. And he shall reigne in the house of Iacob for Shall haue no end euer and of his kingdome there shal be no end CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME D. Stapleton Cont. 1. q. 3. art 2. The Church of Christ continueth to the end of the world PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Apologie of the Church of England Longe agoe hath The whole Church cleane fallen downe the Bishop of Rome willed to haue the whole Church depend vpoÌ„ himselfe alone wherefore it is no meruaile though it be cleane fallen downe longe agoe Agayne When we likewise saw that all thinges were quite troden vnderfoote by these men and that nothing remained in the temple of God but pittifull spoiles and decaies we reckoned c. Cartwright in Whitgifts Defense p. 217. When Antichrist Rooted out from the ground had rooted out the Church euen from the ground c. Luther in c. 49. Genes tom 6 The Pope hath extinguished the Church Caluin cont Sadolet p. 132. The matter came to that passe that it was cleare and manifest both to the learned and vnlearned Christ kingdome flat downe that the true order of the Church theÌ„ perished Christs kingdome was cast flat downe when this principalitie of the Pope was erected Beza in Conf. c. 5. sect 29. But for that horrible tyranie of the Popedome which ouerthrew the whole Church and whicb almost alone doth stay her renewing we c. Daneus in l. Augustini de Haeres c. 95. About the yeare of our lord 574. arose this destruction plague and tyranie of the Rooted out from the foundation whole Church which after rooted out the kingdome of Christ from the foundation Chassanio l. 2. de Ecclesia p. 151. It is false That the Church shall neuer be broken of More of ther like sayings may be seene in my 2. booke of the Author of the Protestant religion c. 1. Where also c. 2. I haue refuted their euasions THE CONFERENCE Scripture expressely saieth that the gates of hell shall not preâ—aile against the Church that there shal be no end of the kingdome of Christ The same say Catholiks Protestants expressely say that the whole Church was cleane fallen downe long agoe that nothing remained in the temple of God but pittifull spoiles decaies that the Church was rooted out from the ground the Church extinct the whole Church ouerthrowne the whole Church destroied that the kingdome of Christ was cast flat downe and rooted out from the foundation which are so contrarie to the Scripture as sometimes Protestants confesse no lesse See lib. 2. cap. 30. ART V. WHETHER THE CHVRCH BE alwaies visible SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. Matth. 5. vers 15. Christ thus speaketh to his disciples or Church cannot be hiddeÌ„ Church You are the light of the world A cittie cannot be hidde situated vpon a mountaine And c. 18. v. 17. And if he will not heare them tell the Church And if he will not heare the Church let him be to thee as the Heathen and the Publican Isaie 62. v. 6. Vpon thy walles Hierusalem I haue appointed Wacth meÌ„ for euer in the Church wachmen all the day and all the night for euer they shall not hould their peace CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME D. Stapleton Cont. 1. q. 3. art 1. The Church which we are to beleiue must necessarily alwaies be visible There must alwaies be a visible Church PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Whitaker Cont. 2. q. 2. c. 1. Their Papists opinion is that Militant Church inuisible the militant Church is alwaies visible But we teach that the whole Church that is the Catholik is inuisible not onely the triumphant parte but also the militant Et q. 4. c. 1. We confesse that there is alwaies on earth some number of them who piously worshippe Christ and hould the true faith and religion but we say that this member is not alwaies visible Their Papists opinion is that there is perpetually some visible Church on earth Caluin in Praefat. Instit Papists will haue the forme of the Church not apparent Church to be alwaies apparent and visible we on the contrarie affirme that the Church may consist of no apparent forme Et in Catechismo c. de fide She is not alwaies seene with eyes discerned by markes Daneus Cont. 4. l. 3. c. 12. Oftentimes God will haue some visible Oftentimes no visible Church Church on earth oftentimes none And l. 4. c. 8. The
A CONFERENCE OF THE CATHOLIKE AND PROTESTANTE DOCTRINE WITH THE EXPRESSE WORDS OF HOLIE SCRIPTVRE WHICH IS THE SECOND PARTE OF THE Prudentiall Balance of Religion VVHEREIN IS CLEARELY SHEWED THAT IN MORE then 260. points of controuersie Catholiks agree with the holie Scripture both in words and sense and Protestants disagree in both and depraue both the sayings words and sense of Scripture WRITTEN FIRST IN LATIN BVT NOW AVGmented and translated into English ACTS IV. VERSE XVII IF IT BE IVST IN THE SIGHT OF GOD TO heare you rather then God iudge yee S. Athanasius Apol. de Fuga WHAT MVST WE STICK TO TO GODS words or these mens Fables AT DOWAY By the widdowe of MARKE WYON at the signe of the Phenix M.DC.XXXI The argument of the first booke VVHo in more then 260. points of controuersie speake with the holie Scripture in the very selfe same or equiualeÌ„t words when it speaketh of those matters expressely and of purpose and in that sense also which the words of Scripture of themselues without anie exposition of man do afforde and in which sense such words vse to be spoken and vnderstood of men they touching those points agree both in words and meaning with the holie Scripture And who speake of those points both in such words and sense as are contrarie to the foresaied words and sense they in those points disagree both in words and sense from the holie Scripture But Catholiks doe that and Protestants this Therefore c. The Maior semeth to be manifest by it selfe and is largely proued in the second booke Cap. 1. The Minor is shewed to the eye in all the first booke The argument of the second Booke VVHo not onely in more then 260. points of controuersie disagree from the foresaied words and sense of Scripture but also are forced openly to reiect some of the words thereof to blot out some to call others in question to change the order of others to change almost all kinds of the Scriptures speaches to expound her words by quite different and plaine contraries to reiect the vnanimous exposition of holie Fathers to confesse that some of their opinions were long since condemned for heresies that some are blasphemous and playne contrarie to Scripture such contradict not onely the words but also the true sense of Scripture But Protestants doe thus Therefore c. The Maior is manifest by it selfe and the Minor shewed to the eye in the second Booke APPROBATIO HOc opus cui titulus Collatio doctrinae Catholicorum ac Protestantium cum expressis sacrae scripturae verbis duobus libris comprehensa Latino serm one olim editum à duobus S. Theol. Doctoribus Parisiensibus approbatum nunc verò auctum in Anglicum sermonem fideliter conuersum nihil habet fidei Catholicae aduersum aut bonis moribus sed plurimum valet ad confutationem doctrinae haereticorum praesentis temporis proinde rectè praeli beneficio in lucem edetur Datum Duaci die 2. Ianuarij 1631. GEORGIVS COLVENERIVS S. Theol. Doctor eiusdem Regius ordinarius ac primarius Professor insignis Ecclâ—siae Collegiatae S. Petri Praepositus Canonicus Duacen sis Academiae Cancellarius librorum Censor THE PREFACE TO THE READER WHEREIN THE SCOPE MANNER OF PROCEDING AND PROFIT OF THIS BOOKE IS DECLARED REQVISITE TO BE READ BEFORE THE BOOKE THERE are now diuers years Gentle Reader since I published the first parte of the Prudential Balance of Religion in which by the weights of Prudence and Right Reason I weighed together the Catholik and Protestant religion according to their first Founders in our English nation to wit S. Austin and Martin Luther which booke hath neuer since bene answered by anie Protestant albeit diuers ministers and superintendents haue carped at it both in Pulpits and printed books shewing thereby that they wanted no will to answere it if they could haue performed it In the preface thereof I promised a second parte in which I would after the same manner weigh the forsaied religions according to their claimes to the holie Scripture and the expresse words thereof which here now I offer vnto thee The causes why I haue so long differred the publishing of this second parte are well enough knowne to them who know me and not needfull to be known of them who know me not And therfore I will not trouble thee with the rehearshall of them but here propose vnto thee the scope manner of Proceding and Profits of this second parte 2. As a man consisteth essentially of a Soule and Bodie and can neither be nor be imagined without them both So the true Church of Christ essentially consisteth Two things wholy necessarieto Christs Church of his true Doctrine which is the forme and as it were the soule of his Church and of lawfull Pastors and People who teach and embrace his Doctrine which Pastors and People make as it were the bodie of Christes Church And without both these partes to wit Christs true Doctrine and true Pastors teaching and People embracing it Christs true Church can no more be or imagined to be then a true man can either be or imagined to be without both the true bodie and true soule of a man And albeit the manifest need of both these partes to the true Church of Christ doth enforce Protestants to make some clame to them both and to pretend that they haue alvaies had both true Pastors who taught and People who beleiued their Doctrine yet their pretense to this parte of the Church is so weake and slender as but seldome and vpon mere necessitie they insist thereon But their greatest pretense and claime is to the true Doctrine of Christ and think thereby to proue that they haue alwaies had true Pastors and People who taught and beleiued their Doctrin as I haue shewed in a Booke of the Author of the Protestant Church and Religion wherein also I haue conuinced by ten Demonstrations all taken out of the open Confessions of the best learned Protestants both of England and other Countries that they neuer had anie one Pastor who taught or man who beleived the very fundamentall and most substantiall points of their religion before Luther arose but that he was first Author Inuentor and Father therof as some of them in plaine termes do call him 3. And although this Booke haue bene now these manie years published both in Latin and English and doth by the open confessions of the best learned Protestants ouerthrow the very foundation of their Church or rather shew that it hath no foundation at all besides their owne imagination yet hitherto no Protestant hath made anie shew of a solid answere vnto it I saie no shew of a why D. Prideaux lecture is no answer to the Author of Protest religion solid answere because that florish which Doctor Prideaux the Kinges diuinitie Reader in Oxford hath made in a lecture deserueth not the name of shew or shadow of an answer First because
faith is grounded onely vpon mens authoritie and all their doctrin forsouth vpon the expresse Scripture and word of God and In c. 1. Galat. In Assert art 2. thereby draw the simple people to follow them The Pope faieth Luther hauing no Scripture wherewith to defēd himself vseth this onely and perpetuall argument against vs. The Church the Church Agayne Our opinion is deliuered by these words of God the contrarie by the words of men And otherwhere All the Scripture standeth an our sides through all letters and tittles Caluin Papists find no weapons in Scripture yea they In Actor 9. v. 22. In Antid sess 6. c. 8. see it wholy against them Agayne I haue the whole Scripture on my side And Sadeel Our doctrin doth relie vpon the expresse worde of God And in an other place we professed in the fift article of our French Confession that our faith is onely and wholie and expressly grounded vpon the word of God as it is contained De vocat Ministr Ad art 1. abiurat in the Scripture Fulk in Ioan. 5. note 2. Papists can not find a iote of Poperie allowed ether by expresse wordes of the Scripture or by necessarie cōclusiō out of the same And the like most vaine pretence this most impudent boast is most Apol. Anglic p. 20. Pareus praefat lib. de Grat. Caluin epist 193. Whitak praefat ad Demonst manifestly refuted in this booke wherein is clearly shewed that the Catholik doctrin in more then 260. points denied by Protestants is in expresse termes and most directly taught and deliuered by the Scripture and in the same points the Protestants doctrin condemned and that these in very deed do relie vpon their owne inferences out of Scripture their owne conferences of places of Scripture and oppose their owne expositions glosses tropes and figures against the expresse words and thunders of almightie God 14. The sixt commoditie is that though some obstinatly will not confesse that in all these 260. points or in most of them the Scripture or word of God doth expresly approue the Catholik doctrin and condemne the Protestant yet this he can not denie but in all these points the holie Scripture both for word and for sense fauoureth more the Catholik doctrin then the Protestant which if ignorant Protestants would mark they would not be so easily misled For as for words in all these 260. points we Catholiks aduantage ouer Protestants For words of Scripture vse the very same or equiualent words with the Scripture what she calleth faith we call faith what she calleth the bodie of Christ we call the bodie of Christ And so in others whereas Protestants do the quite contrarie as hath beene touched before and shall appeare in the whole booke And as for the forme of speach where the Scripture For phrase of Scripture affirmeth we affirme where the Scripture denieth we deny And contrarie wise the Protestants affirme where the Scripture denieth and deny where the Scripture affirmeth as shal be most euident to him that will read this booke Besids no parte or parcell of the Scripture forceth For partes of Scripture Catholiks to denie it but they hould all that Protestants account for Scripture and some what more whereas Protestāts are compelled to reiect manie bookes of those which Catholiks and the holie Church heretofore hath beleeued to be Gods word and fouly also to mangle and corrupt these bookes which they admit Moreouer Catholiks refuse no authenticall edition or translation of the For translations of Scripture Scripture but Protestants will sland to no translation And thus much touching the words of Scripture As for For the sense of Scripture the sense thereof Catholiks in all these 260. points do admit that sense which the expresse words of Scripture and they spoaken of purpose to declare Gods mynd doe of them selues proporse which sense Protestants reiect and force the quite contrarie Agayne scarce in any of these 260. articles Catholiks are driuen to any answere which hath any shew of a shift or euasion because in them as I saied they embrace the natiue and proper sense of the words of Scripture but Protestants in euerie one of them are driuen to sundrie and foule shifts because they refuse the naturall and plaine sense of Gods word Besids Catholiks in all these 260. points dare stand to the iudgment of the expresse worde of God according to that sentence which of them selues with out all helpe force or pressing of Catholiks they doe pronounce Protestants dare not in these articles stand to the iudgment of Gods expresse worde vnles they may wrest wring and interprete it as they thinke best Finally Catholiks in none of all these questions reiect that sense of Scripture which is deliuered by vnanimous consent of the holie Fathers Councells or Church Protestants refuse it in manie Seing therefore Catholiks haue the aduantage ouer Protestants not onely for Fathers Councells Church miracles the like but also that they haue such and so great aduantages ouer them in more then 260. points of controuersie both for the expresse worde and plaine sense of the Scripture it is plaine willfulnes and carelesnes of saluation to leaue Catholiks for to follow Protestants I would to God that Protestants would as they pretend follow the expresse word of God and embrace that Religion Note which the expresse word of God most fauoureth reiect that which it most disliketh and enquire diligently whether the Catholik or Protestant religion can in more points of controuersie proue her doctrin by the pure and expresse written word of God without the mixture of any word of man and by the pure sense therof which of it self it affordeth without any help or exposition of man when it is spoaken of purpose to declare Gods meaning vnto vs. Let that religion florish and be embraced which in this conflict ouercomet let that perish and be reiected which is ouercomen And what more reasonable then to preferre Gods pure word before that which is not pure mixt partely of Gods words partely of mans What more reafonable then to preferre Gods direct speech before mans inference or collection out of his speech What more reasonable then to follow rather Gods expresse words then mans glosses tropes and figures And finally what more reasonable then to follow that religion which in more then 260. points of controuersie is grounded vpon the pure word the direct word the expresse word of God and hath against it nothing but mans mixt word mans inference mans glosses rather then that which in all those points is condemned by the pure direct and expresse word of God and supported onely by mans mixt word mans inference and mans glosses For example That the Eucharist is the bodie of Christ we haue for vs in foure places of Scripture the pure direct and expresse word of God saying This is my bodie and against vs there is not so much as once any pure word of God
Thus by their greater antiquitie of their possession of the Bible and also by the greater antiquitie of the Bible it self did the ancient Christians proue against Heretiks both that their Bibles were the true Bibles and also that they were the true owners of them But manifest it is that Catholiks are ancienter possessors of the holie Scripture then Protestants be in so much as we shall see Protestants confesse that they had the Scripture of Catholiks Therefore Catholiks are the true owners of the Scripture The fourth proof is taken from that there can be no 4. title no beginning of possession named place or time named where or when Catholiks first began to take possession of the holie Scripture besides the very time of Christ and his Apostles who alone could giue true and lawfull possession of the Scripture Whereas See Author of the Prot. religion l. 2. c. 13. we can name the place and time when Protestants first began to Vsurpe possession of the holie Scripture Which is long after the time of Christ and his Apostles And all reason bindeth vs to accounte them the true owners of a thing the beginning of whose possession can not be found but at the very time of the first giuers thereof rather then those whose possession began manie hundreds of years after The fift proof I will ground vpon that the Catholiks 5. title the integritie of Scripture haue conserued the holie Scripture incorrupt For theeues and wrong possessors vse to disfigure the thing they haue stolne as much as they can that it may not be knowne Besides the Scripture must needs be contrarie to the vsurpers and agreable to the true owners therefore necessitie forceth vsurpers to alter the Scripture as false heires are forced to alter the will or testament if they get it into their hands Wherevpon we see that scarce euer there were anie Heretiks who haue not saught to corrupt the Tertul. de prescript c. 17 38. Scripture albeit Catholiks cried out against their sacrilegious impietie How much more then would Papists haue corrupted the Scripture especially whiles for manie ages there were no visible Protestants to reproue them if they had not beene the true owners of the Scripture But Catholiks haue not in all these ages in which Protestants were inuisible corrupted anie parte of the Scripture as is euident by that Protestants confesse that Scripture which they had of Catholiks to be pure and incorrupt Nether do Protestants obiect to Catholiks anie corruption made by them in the Hebrew or Greek text and the vulgar Latin they will haue to be ancienter then Papistrie it self But contrariewise Catholiks haue euer since the beginning of Protestancie charged Protestāts with manie and greiuous corruptions of holie Scripture Wherefore thus I argue All reason teacheth vs to iudge them to be the true owners of a testament who are the freest from corrupting it But Catholiks are farre more free from corruptinge the testament of Christ then Protestants Therefore c. The sixt proof I will take from the Protestants graunt Sixt title graunt of Protestants that they had the Scripture from Catholiks Luther in 16. Ioan. to 4. Germ. witenb fol. 227. There is an argument which can very hardly be wrested from the Papists and which I my self can very hardly answere and refute especially sith we are forced to giue and graunt them so manie thinges which are true to wit that in Poperie is the word the Apostleshippe and that we receaued the holie Scripture baptisme the Sacraments and office of preaching from them otherwise what should we haue knowne of all these things And to 5. in 1. Gal. fol. 293. we had indeed the Scripture and the Sacraments of the Papists Schusselburg to 8. Catal. Haeres p. 439. VVe denie not that Luther saieth that in Poperie is all Christian good and from thence came to vs. D. Daue of Recusancie p. 13. VVe hould the Creed of the Apostles of Athanasius of Nice of Ephesus of Constantinople which the Papists also do hould and the same Bible which we receaued from them Whitaker Cont. 2. q. 5. c. 14. Papists haue the Scripture Baptisme Catechisme the articles of faith the ten commandements the lords praier and these things come from thē to vs. Iames Andreas li. cont Has p. 316. VVe denie not that we receaued the Scriptures from you The like hath Spalatensis lib. cont Suar. c. 1. n. 34. and others A question proposed to Protestants Wherefore I aske the Protestāts how they had the Scripture of vs Did we giue it them Did we sell it them Did we change it with Did we relinquish it as a forlorne thing No one of all these can they proue or affirme with anie apparence How then get they the Scripture from vs but as theeues get the true mens goods and as Turkes and Iews get the same Scripture from vs If anie say as Andrews and Schusselb do intimate that Protestants had the Scripture of Catholiks as Christians had the ould testament of the Iewes I answere that Christians had not the ould testamēt of the Iewes if by Iewes they meane such as remained Iewes For Christians had the ould testament of the Apostles and they of Christ who was lord of the ould and new testament as they had from him the Sacraments and all other goods of the Church Besides euerie Heretik may pretend this as well as Protestants Wherefore thus I argue They whome their aduersaries confesse to haue had the Scripture before them selues and can tell no lawfull means by which they had the Scripture from them are according to all reason to be held the true owners of the Scripture rather then their aduersaries But such are Catholiks in respect of Protestants Therefore c. The seuenth proof I will take from the open and manifould Seuenth title other confessions of Protestant confessions of Protestants For first they confesse that Catholiks are the true Church of Christ as I haue shewed at longe in my foresaied booke of the Author of the Protestant religion lib. 1. c. 2. to which I add these few Spalatensis lib. 5. de repub c. 6. n. 236. The Rom. Church is not gone so farre from the foundation as that she is to be put wholy out of the membres of the Churches of Christ lib. cont Suarem c. 1. n. 20. I think as I haue often saied that the Rom. Church with those that follow here are the true Church of Christ D. Featlie in his Refutation of Fisher p. 82. The Rom. Church we acknowledge to be a member though a sicke and weake one of the Catholik visible Church The like hath D. Hall in his booke of ould religion and his twoe defenders Chalmeley and Batterfeild whereof the latter in his preface saieth he will demonstrate that the Rom. Church is a true Church Now certaine it is that the true Church is the true ower of the Scripture Secondly they confesse that Catholik Pastors are true
Church Of the same opinion are other Protestants who say that the true Church of God is inuisible to men for such a Church cannot be ruled of mē or denie that anie reprobates though they be Pastors are members of the true Church For if they were Pastors of the true Church certainly they should be also members of the same and those principall And if no reprobates be Pastors of the true Church nether be any elect because those Pastors which are elect rule no other Church then that which those which are reprobate do As Saint Peter ruled no other kinde of Church then Iudas did THE CONFERENCE Scripture expressely teacheth that Bishops rule that Church which Christ purchased with his blood that they edifie the bodie of Christ and that there are watch men vpon the walls of Hierusalem But Hierusalem the bodie of Christ the Church purchased with Christs blood is the true Church The same say Catholiks Protestants expressely teach that the rule of the Catholik or true Church is inuisible that she cannot be seene that noughtie prelats are not of the Catholik Church that Bishops are not pastors of the Catholik Church ART VII WHETHER PASTOVRS OF the Church be to be called Preists SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. Isaie 61. ver 6. speaking of the time of Ghospell saieth Pastours of the Church are to be called Preists And you shal be called the Preists of the Lord. To you it shal be saied The Ministers of our God And c. 66. v. 20. 21. And they shall shew forth my glorie to the Gentils And I will take of thē to be preists and leuits saieth our Lord. CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME C. Bellarm. l. 1. de Missa c. 17. S. Austin saieth that Bishops and Presbyters are properly called Preists PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Luther de Instit Ministr to 2. fol. 371. Who administer the Not to be called Preists word and Sacraments amongest people nether may nor ought to be called preists Caluin 4. Institut cap. 18. § 14. With what trust dare these sacrilegious follows call themselues preists of the liuing God Rainalds in his Conference c. 8. diuis 4. They who charge vs with falshood and corruption in that we call the Ministers of the Ghospell Elders are guiltie themselues of heresie and blasphemie in that they call them Preists Whitaker l. 9. cont Dur. sect 47. The names of Preists or Sacrificers do no way agree to the Ministers of the new testamēt but abusiuely and metonymically P. Martyr l. cont Gardiner col 1075. We call not our Ministers Preists Confessio Heluet. c. 18. We giue none of our Ministers the name of Preists THE CONFERENCE Scripture expressely saieth that the Pastors of the Church shal be called Preists and that some of the Gentils shal of God be taken to be Preists The same say Catholiks Protestants expressely say that Pastors of the Church may not be called Preists that they call none of them Preists that it is sacrilege heresie and blasphemie to call them preists ART VIII WHETHER ANY CAN BE a Pastour and preach without mission or calling SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY DENIETH. Roman 10. vers 15. But how shall they preach vnlesse they None can preach without mission be sent Hebr. 5. ver 5. So Christ also did not glorifie himselfe that he might be made a highe preist Ihon 3. v. 28. A man cannot receaue any thing vnlesse it be giuen him from heauen CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY DENIE D. Stapleton in Rom. 10. v. 15. The roote of lawfull preaching is mission nether is there any lawfull power of preaching Gods worde where lawfull mission went not before PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME Art Smalcaldici pag. 353. In case of necessitie a lay man absolueth In necessitie a lay man absolueth Some may preach with out mission and becometh Pastor and Minister to an other Luther tom 2. German fol. 256. A Christian man hath so much power that not called he ought to come forth and teach in middest of Christians when he seeth the teacher there to erre Id. l. de Instit ministr f. 372. We haue shewed euidently that euerie one hath authoritie to minister the worde yea commandment if he see that there is none to teach or that they teach not aright who are The like ib. l. de Iudic. Eccles 376. de Captiuit f. 80. And Postilla in die S. Stephani f. 84. Stephen by his example giueth authoritie to euerie Christian to preach Christ in what place soeuer where they are desirous to heare Herbrand in Disp 11. Euen they who are not lawfully called may preach the word fruitfully Melancthon in disput to 4. p. 507. A lay man can absolue not onely in case of necessitie but otherwhere Iacobus Andreae in Colloq Montisbel p. 410. In case of necessitie when Ministers or other men are absent it is lawfull for a woman to comfort a sick man by preaching and absolue him of his sinnes Kemnitius also 2. port Exam. tit de Ministris p. 49. saieth that it is lawfull in case of necessitie to preach without lawfull vocation Peter Martyr in locis clas 4. c. 1. § 15. When a Church is not yet built and men are ignorant of Christian religion whosoeuer shal be there by chance who know Christ they are bound to preach him nether is ordination to be expected seing it cannot be had Beza de Notis Eccles vol. 3. Then wilt thou say shall it be lawfull for euerie one in the Church to teach No truely But where a generall disorder rageth vnder colour of order nether remedie can be expected from the authours of this euill then surely as when the cittie is on fire it is the parte of euerie good citizen out of order to bring water and cast vpon the fire so in this fire of the Church it is the duetie of euerie pious man according to his power to oppose himselfe to this euill Plessie de Eccles c. 11. We know that it is saied How shall they preach vnlesse they be sent But because when all things are done confusely and out of order we must not looke that all things may be done rightly and according to set order and forme For ether that the Church be admonished that there need reformation or that anie particular man take care of his saluation euerie Christian ought to know that he is called to that function by a generall vocation so that he burne with zeale of the glorie of God and charitie to his neighbour THE CONFERENCE Scripture expressely saieth that none can preach vnlesse he be sent none can take any honour vnlesse it be giuen to him that Christ made not himselfe Preist or Pastour The same say Catholiks Protestants expressely say that one that is not called may fruitfully preach that any man may preach in case of necessitie or when there wanteth a Pastour or he erreth or when there is a generall disorder or men are desirous to heare that a lay man may absolue in case of necessitie and otherwise also
true Church may some time faile to be visible Scarpe de Iustif Cont. 5. The members of the visible Church The whole visible Church may faile In the vttermost extent may faile yea the whole visible Church as such Vorstius in Antibellarm p. 136. Whence it followeth that the visible Church of Christ not onely in a great parte but euen whole taken in the vttermost extent may for sometime faile from the true faith and be wholy obscured Againe The externall Church of Christ may be obscured and faile More of their like sayings may be seene in my foresaied booke c. 4. THE CONFERENCE Scripture plainly teacheth that the Church of Christ cannot be hidden and biddeth vs to tell and heare her The same say Catholiks Protestants plainly teach that there is not alwaies a visible number of those who piously worshippe Christ that the Church may haue no apparent for me is not alwaies seene with eyes sometimes faileth to be visible that the whole visible Church as such may faile that the whole visible Church taken in her vttermost extent may faile from the faith that God oftentimes will haue no visible Church on earth Which are so opposite to Scripture as Protestants sometimes confesse it See l. 2. c. 30. ART VI. WHETHER THE CHVRCH be infallible in faith SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. Isaie 59. vers vltim This is my couenant with them saieth Gods spirit euer in the mouth of the Church our Lord My spirit that is in thee and my words that I haue put in thy mouth shall not departe out of thy mouth and out of the mouth of thy seede and out of the mouth of thy seeds seede saieth our Lord from this present for euer Mathew 16. vers 18. And the gates of hell shall not preuaile Gates of hell preuaile not against her against it Ioan. 16. v. 13. But when the Spirit of trueth cometh he shall teach you all trueth 1. Tim. 3. ver 15. Which is the Church of the liuing God the The pillar of trueth pillar and ground of trueth CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME D. Stapleton Controu 4. qu. 2. art vnico The Church in her determinations of faith is euer must certaine and infallible PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Whitaker Cont. 2. q. 4. cap. 3. God hath not promised to his The vniuersall Church may erre In necessarie matters The whole Church Church that she should not erre The vniuersall Church may erre The whole Church may erre It is euident that the true Church may for a time erre euen in necessarie matters Yea after Christs ascension and that descent of the Holie Ghost vpon the Apostles it is manifest that the whole Church did erre about the vocation of the Gentils and not onely the common sorte of Christians but euen the very Apostles and Doctors And quaest 5. cap. 17. The Church may for a time erre in some fundamentall points Beza de notis Eccles vol. 3. If some particular Church may erre euen in some principall head of Christian religion and yet leaue not therefore to be a true Church why may we not say the same of all particular Churches taken not onely seuerally but all together for this is the Catholik Church And the margēt The Catholik Church and in fundamentall points The whole Churrh saieth Some errors may creepe into the Church euen in some fundamentall head of saith Daneus Controu 4. l. 3. c. 17. The whole Church all Pastors generally may erre The whole Church may be deceaued slippe and erre Author Resp ad Theses Vademont p. 503. The Catholik And grieuously Church may erre and that sometimes most grieuously The like they teach commonly THE CONFERENCE Scripture expressely teacheth that Gods spirit and his word shall neuer departe from the mouth of the Church that the gates of hell shall not preuaile against her that the Holie Ghost teacheth her all trueth that she is the pillar and ground of trueth Catholiks say the same Protestants expressely teach that the Church the true Church the vniuersall Church the whole Church may erre most grieuously and in some fundamentall and necessarie matters that the whole Apostolik Church euen after the descent of the Holie Ghost did erre Which is so repugnant to holie Scripture as sometimes Protestants confesse it See lib. 2. c. 30. ART VII WHETHER THE CHVRCH be to be heard simply in all things SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. Matth. 18. v. 17. If he will not heare the Church let him be Church simply to be heard to the as the Heathen and the Publican Luc. 10. v. 16. Who heareth you heareth me and who despiseth you despiseth me CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME D. Stapleton Cont. 4. q. 2. art 3. We must simply and absolutely obey the voice of the Church in doctrine of faith PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Whitaker Cont. 1. q. 3. c. 3. We must not simply receaue whatsoeuer Not simply to be heard the Church teacheth but whatsoeuer she is commanded of God to teach and proueth by Gods authoritie And q. 5. c. 5. The Church is to be heard not simply in all her sayinges decrees sentences and commandments The same he hath Cont. 2. q. 4. c. 2. and l. 1. de Scriptura c. 11. Bucanus in Inst Theol. loco 43. Must we simply heare the voice of the Church and receaue whatsoeuer she teacheth No. Reineccius to 4. Armat c. 3. We must beleiue the Church in Not simply to be beleiued all things not taken simply and absolutely but relatiuely and with condition as farre as according to Scripture and out of that she proposeth diuine trueth THE CONFERENCE Scripture simply and absolutely biddeth vs to heare the Church and saieth that who heareth her heareth Christ The same say Catholiks Protestants denie that she is simply to be heard or obeyed ART VIII WHETHER TRVETH IN respect of vs do relie vpon the Church SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. 1. Timoth. 3. ver 15. Which is the Church of the liuing God Church the pillar of trueth the pillar and ground of trueth CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME D. Stapleton Controu 4. quaest 2. artic vnico The Church according to the ordinarie course is for faithfull men the pillar of all reuealed trueth and for faith it selfe the ground For the faitfull relie vpon the teaching of the Church as an vnmouable pillar PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Whitaker Contru 2. q. 4. c. 2. The trueth of faith doth not Not pillar in regard of vs. relie vpon the Church as a foundation no not in regard of vs. Trueth doth not relie vpon the authoritie of the Church Againe If the trueth of faith did relie vpon the authoritie of the Church in respect of vs who then c. Bucer in Disp Cantabrig It is manifest enough that no Sustaineth not trueth Church is to be termed the pillar and ground of trueth as if she did sustaine and conserue trueth Melancthon in locis c. de Signis Eccles to 3. Faith doth not relie wpon the
authoritie of the Church THE CONFERENCE Scripture expressely saieth that the Church is the pillar and ground of trueth The same say Catholiks Protestants expressely say that the Church doth not sustaine or conserue the trueth that faith relieth not vpon her authoritie that trueth doth not relie vpon her authoritie as a foundation no not in regard or respect of vs. THE SVMME OF THIS CHAPTER OF the Church What hath beene repeated in this Chapter doth make manifest that Protestants describe vnto vs a Church quite different from that which the holie Scripture and Catholikes propose For the Scripture and Catholiks teach that the Church is but one Protestants say there are twoe Churches They say she containeth both badde and reprobates that she endureth for euer is alwaies visible infallible in faith is simply in all things to be heard and is the pillar of faith touching vs All which points Protestants denie They also make manifest that Protestants steale from the Church a great parte of her to wit the badde and reprobate faithfull and manie of her chiefe properties namely vnitie perpetuitie continuall visibilitie infallibilitie and our dependencie vpon her in beleife And thus much of the Church Now of Temples or materiall Churches CHAPTER VIII OF TEMPLES OR MATERIALL CHVRCHES ART I. WHETHER THE CHVRCHES be also for priuat praier SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. KINGS 3. cap. 8. ver 41. Moreouer also the stranger Place of praier for a straÌ„ger which is not of thy people Israel when he shall come from a farre countrie for thy name and shall pray in this place thou shalt heare in heauen in the firmament of thy habitation and shalt do all things for which the stranger shall inuocate thee 2. Paralipomen 6. vers 21. Whosoeuer shall pray in this For whomsoeuer place heare out of thy habitation that is from the heauens and be propitious Mathew 21. vers 13. It is written my house shal be called a house of praier Luc. 2. v 37. Who departed not from the temple by fastings For S. Anne and praiers seruing night and day c. 24. v. 53. And they were alwaies in the Temple praising and blessing God CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME Cardin. Bellarm. lib. 3. de Santis cap. 4. The Churches of Christians are rightly instituted for to pray also priuate praiers PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Tindal in Fox Actes 1610. pag. 1138. Churches are for preaching For preaching onely onely And Fox addeth This article containeth nether errour nor honestie Vorstius in Antibellarm p. 327. Nether is this a lawfull end Not for priuat praier of Churches that the faithfull pray priuaty in them Luther in Festo Dedicat. Templi fol. 447. The people which beleiue in Christ are all iust and subiect to no law especially Not dedicated to praier that pertaineth to ceremonies of temples And therefore now amongst them there is no temple dedicated to praier And hereupon Protestants in Confes Heluet. c. 23. bidde them beware that they wearie not the people with to long praier And in Confess Argentinen cap. 21. They detest our long paier as also doth Caluin in Matth. 6. ver 7. and finally in their Synod at Dordrach art 46. they define that publik euening praiers are not to be brought in where they are not in vse and to be taken away where they are So well these men loue praiers in Churches THE CONFERENCE Scripture expressely saieth that Gods Church is the house of praier for all people a place of praier where the stranger may make his praier and be heard that Anna night and day praied in the temple that the Apostles were alwaies in the temple praising God The same say Catholiks Protestants expressely say that Churches are onely for preaching that is no lawfull end of Churches to pray priuatly in them that Christians haue no temple dedicated to praier and forbidde long and euening praier in Churches ART II. WHETHER CHVRCHES BE to be adorned SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. Exod. 35. is described the wonderfull adorning of the tabernacle Churches are to be adorned made by Gods commandment and 3. Reg. 6. the most rich ornaments of the temple made by Salomon Psalme 25. v. 8. I haue loued the beautie of thy house Marc. 14. v. 15. Say to the maister of the house that the Maister saieth where is my refectorie where I may eate my Paske with my disciples And he will shew you a great chamber adorned and there prepare for vs. CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME D. Stapleton in Ioan. 12. v. 3. Sumptuous dâ—cking and honorable adorning when they are done in the honour of God and for his worshippe ether in the adorning or magnifencie of Churches or in solemne administration of Sacraments doe please God PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Perkins in Problemate c. de ornatu temploruÌ„ The errour Not to be adorned of adorning temples began to be strange in Constantins time and the Fathers theÌ„ being caried away with the custome do exact the adorning of temples Caluin in Math. 26. v. 11 Let vs not deuise sumptuous worshippes of God with the Papists In Ioan. 12. v. 6. Surely God careth not for externall pompe wherefore they are preposterous interpreters who out of Christs answere do infer that costly and magnificall worshipps do please God Tigurini apud Hospin part 2. Hist fol. 24. The ornaments of Churches belonge not to the true worshippe of God Vorstius in Antibellarm p. 327. It is not onely superfluous but also vaine and superstitious and in parte ethnicall also and Iewish to make great and vnprofitable expenses in adorning Churches as euerie where vseth to be done in Poperie For that theatricall brauerie is contrarie to the simplicitie of Christian religion THE CONFERENCE Scripture expressely teacheth that God himselfe comcommanded the tabernacle to be adorned that Salomon by his instinct adorned the temple that Dauid loued the beautie of Gods house that Christ made choice of a great and adorned chamber wherein he should celebrate the Eucharist The same say Catholiks ProtestaÌ„ts expressely say that the adorning of Churches is an errour superfluous vaine superstitious ethnicall and Iudaicall and contrarie to Christian religion that magnificall and costlie worships please not God ART III. WHETHER IT BE LAWEFVLL to put the Images of Angels or Saintes in Churches SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. Exod. 25. v. 18. God thus commandeth Two Cherubins Images in the Temple also thou shalt make of beaten gould on both sides of the Oracle And vers 22. And I will speake to thee ouer the Propitiatorie and from the middest of the two Cherubins which shal be vpon the arke of testimonie all things which I will coÌ„mand the children of Israel by thee 3. Reg. 6. vers 23. And he Salomon made in the Oracle two Cherubs of oliue trees of ten cubits in height And v. 27. And he put the Cherubs in the middest of the inner temple CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME Councel of Trent Session 25. c. de Inuocat The Images of Christ and other Saintes
mouth Math. 3. v. 4. And his S. Ihons meate was locusts and wild And S. Ihon Baptiste honie Luc. 1. v. 15. And wine and sicer he shall not drinke c. 7. ver 33. For Ihon baptist came nether eating bread nor drinking wine The like is saied of the mother of Sampson Iudic 13 v. 4. and of the Rechabits Hieremie 35. Rom. 14. v. 21. It is good not to eate flesh and not to drinke Good not to eate flesh or drinke wine wine nor that wherein thy brother is offended or scandalized or weakened CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME C. Bellarm de bonis operibus in part l. 2. c. 7. If Ionadab could for euer forbidde his children and nephews wine and both his commandment and their obedience pleased God why cannot our mother the Church forbidde her children some meates for a time so that both the Churches precept and our obedience please God PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Whitaker ad Ration 9. Campiani It is madnesse to haue Madnesse to vse choice of meates for religion Foolish and wicked No seruice of God anie choice of meates for religion sake Perkins in Cathol Contr. 12. cap. 2. We hould this distinction of meates both to be foolish and wicked Confessio Argentinensis c. 9. We haue omitted that choice of meate which was commanded vpon certaine dayes which Saint Paul attributeth to the doctrine of Diuels Caluin in Luc. 1. v. 15. We must not imagin a seruice of God No seruice of God Fond superstition in oâ—stayning from wine Beza in Confess cap. 5. sect 41. This choice of meats which some make a seruice of God we doubt not with the Apostle to call a diuelish and most fond superstition THE CONFERENCE Scripture expressâ—ly saieth that Daniel many days abstained froÌ„ fleâ—h wine and desiderable bread that S. Ihon Baptiste nether eate bread nor drunke wine or sicer that it is good not to eate flesh nor to drink wine Catholiks say the same Protestants expressely say that the choice of meats is superstitious foolish madnesse wicked and diuelish doctrine that there is no seruice of God in abstinence from wine And thus much of Fasting ART VIII WHETHER IT BE LAWFVLL to pray for all SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. 1. Timoth. 2. vers 1. I desire therefore first of all things that We must pray for all men obsecrations praiers postulations thanks giuings be made for all men Exod. 32. v. 32. Moises thus praieth for the idolatrous people Moyses praied for all Ether forgiue this trâ—spasse or if thou do not strike me out of the booke that thou hast written CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME C. Bellarm. lib. 1. de Septem verbis Dom. c. 1. saieth that Christ vpon the crosse praied for Pilat and the chiefe Preists Scribes and people of the Iews PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Rainolds in Apologia thesium p. 245. Nether must we pray We must not pray for euerie one for euerie one For we are forbidden to pray for them that sinne to death Wherefore where we are bidden to pray for all the world All designeth all kinds not all of euerie kinde Beza in Ioan. 5. ver 16. Hereof it followeth that no sinnes Not for reprobates are veniall to the reprobates and therefore we must not make praiers for the sinnes of the reprobates Daneus in orat Dom. p. 593. saieth that Thy will be done belongeth not properly to reprobates as if we praied God that they quietly and willingly submitt themselues to God and doe and execute his will out of their harte faithfully and obediently Piscator in Thesibus lib. 3. loco 11. We ought to pray for all Nor for those that sinne to death that are aliue they onely excepted whome we see do sinne to death The same also saieth Bucanus in Instir loco 17. to which he addeth loco 37. that a man must not pray for the obdurated or those that sinne against the Holie Ghost THE CONFERENCE Scripture plainely saieth that we must pray for all and that Moises praied for the idolatrous people amongst whome manie were reprobates The same say Catholiks Protestants plainely say that we must not pray for all not for reprobates not for those that sinne to death not for the indurated not for those that sinne gainst the Holie Ghost ART IX WHETHER IT BE LAWFVLL to pray for the dead SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. 2. Mach. 12. vers 43. And Iudas making a gathering sent twelue thousand drachmes of siluer to Hierusalem for sacrifice to be offered the for sinnes of the dead Et ver 16. It is therefore a A holie thing to pray for the dead holie and healthfull cogitation to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from sinnes CATHOLIKS EXPRESSELY AFFIRME Councel of Trent Sess 25. c. 1. The Catholik Church teacheth that the soules detained in Purgatorie are holpen by the suffrages of the faithfull PROTESTANTS EXPRESSELY DENIE Iewel art 18. sect 3. p. 433. This kinde of praier for the dead It is superstitions is mere superstitious and vtterly without warrant of Gods word Confessio Seotica generalis We detest his Popes praiers Detestable for the dead Caluin Epistola 366. That forme of praier God giue the One may wish well to the dead but not pray dead a good and happie resurrection because it is not fitting to the rule of good praier is to be reiected yet I do not denie but that one may make such a wish Brentius in Dom. 12. post Trinit Albeit we may wish all happines to the dead yet praier for them is vaine Confessio Witten bergen c. de Memoria de functorum Charitie requireth that we wish all rest and happines in Christ vnto the dead But there is no testimonie of Propheticall and Apostolike doctrine that they be holpen by our praiers THE CONFERENCE Scripture expressely saieth that the people of God vnder the law offered sacrifices for the dead which Caluin also confesseth 3. Instit c. 5. § 8. and that it is a holie and healthfull thing to pray for them that they be loosed from their sinnes The same say Catholiks Protestants expressely say that it is lawfull to wish good to the dead but that to pray for them is vaine superstitious and detestable And yet Luther Serm. de de Diuite Lazaro to 7. f. 268. de Captiuit Babylon f 72. and cont Catharin f. 151. Et in Hospin Concordia discor f. 225. Apologia Confess Augustan c. de vocabulis Missae Agenda Anglica apud Bucerum p. 427. 449. Zuinglius art 60. Vrbanus Regius and others allow praying for the dead ART X. WHETHER IT BE LAWFVLL to pray for that which God hath not promised SCRIPTVRE EXPRESSELY AFFIRMETH. Math. 26. ver 39. Christ thus praieth My Father if it be Christ praied for that which was not promised to him And S. Paul And Abraham and Dauid possible let this chalice passe from me 2. Cor. 12. vers 8. For the which thing thrice I besought our Lord that
which Protestants assigne I let passe that the Lutherans say that the Sacramētaries had their exposition of the Scripture frō the Diuell and that Luther professeth that he was taught of the Diuell as perhaps we shall proue an other time at large Wherefore thus I make my 28. argument They who in so manie and weightie matters do expressely contradict such plaine words of Scripture and yet haue no infallible way to attaine to the true sense thereof must needs contradict the true sense of Scripture But Protestants be such Therefore c. CHAPTER XXIX THAT PROTESTANTS ARE FORCED to admit no Iudge in the Church to whose iudgement they will stand THE 29. Argument wherewith we will proue that Protestants are against the true sense of Scriptrue shal be because their doctrine is so plainelie against Scripture as they dare not admit anie Iudge thereof For thus Zuinglius tom 1. in Explanat artic 67. Protest admit Iudge I suffer no man to be iudge in the matter of trueth and faith Whitaker Contr. 1. quaest 5. c. 4. God hath reserued to himselfe the iudgement of religion and hath not graunted it to anie man And Contr. 4. q. 1 c. 2. There is now no infallible iudge on earth which is man Vorstius in Antibel pag. 80. We haue proued that onely Christ or the holie Ghost speaking plainely in Scripture is to be accounted this supreme iudge of controuersies of faith Pareus in Colleg. Theol. 4. Disputatio 2. The supreme iudge of interpretations of Scripture and controuersies of faith from whome there is no Appeale is is no man now nor since the Apostles nether Church nor Councell c. Lutherans in Colloq Ratisb Session 9. Proue this that besides the written law there must be an other visible iudge appointed The like saieth Academia Nemausiensis Resp ad Tournon Eliensis resp ad Apol. Bellarm. c. 14. Feild l. 3. de Eccles cap. 13 16. Moulins in his Bucler art 3. sect 6. and other Protestants commonly But that there must needs be admitted a iudge in the Church to whose iudgement we must stand I proue First out of Scripture For Deut. 17. it is saied If thou perceaue that There must needs be a Iudge the iudgement with thee be hard and doubtfull thou shalt come to the Preists of the leuiticall stock and to the Iudge that shal be at that time and thou shalt aske of them who shall shew thee the trueth of the iudgement and thou shalt doe whatsoeuer they that are presidents of the place which our Lord shall chuse shall say and teach thee according to the law and shalt follow their sentence nether shalt thou decline to the right hand nor to the left hand But he that shal be proud refusing to obey the commandement of the Preist who at that time ministreth to our Lord thy God and the decree of the Iudge that man shall die Behould a Iudge instituted in the Church vnder the law and him to be obeyed vnder paine of death Likewise Math. 18. Christ saieth If he will not heare the Church let him be to the as an Ethnik and Publican And Actor 15. When the Christians did disagree about the obseruation of Iewish ceremonies they apointed that Paul and Barnabas should goe vp and certaine others of the rest to the Apostles and Preists in Hierusalem vpon this question and all true Christians submitted themselues to their decree and S. Paul commanded it to be kept And the like practise hath beene euer obserued in the Church and they held for Heretiks who did not submit themselues to the iudgement of a lawfull Councell Secondely I proue it out of the Fathers For thus S. Ciprian Epist 55. For nether are Heresies risen or Schismes sprung from anie other roote then because the Preist of God is not obeyed nor beleiued that there is one preist for a time in the Church and one Iudge for a time in steed of Christ Loe to denie that there is a iudge in the Church in steed of Christ is the occasion of all Heresies and Schismes And S. Austin l. 1. cont Crescon c. 33. Whosoeuer feareth to be deceaued in the obscuritie of this question let him aske the Church of it whome the holie Scripture doth shew without anie doubt Thirdly because it was euer the custome of Heretiks Heretiks denie a Iudge to denie that there is a Iudge in the Church Whereupon the Donatists in Breuic Collat. say that Christ must be the iudge of this cause stirring vp enuie to Catholiks because they had requested a man to be iudge Fourthlie I proue it by reason because it is a plaine argument of an euill cause that the Patrons thereof dare not submit it to the iudgment of anie Iudge in the common wealth Besides there can be no peace in anie societie or commonwealth vnlesse beside the laws there be some Iudge who may determine matters and to whose iudgement men must stand And who denie such Iudges ether mantaine an ill cause or loue not peace but continuall braules For these and the like arguments Protestants sometime Protest sometime admit a Iudge in Words in words doe admitt a Iudge in the Church For thus Whitaker Cont. 1. q. 5. c. 4. I confesse that in euerie common wealth there ought to be Iudges who may make an end of contentions amongst men Et c. 7. God indeed hath left a Iudge to his Church but who it is now is question and debate betwene vs and the Papists Eliensis cap. 14. cit But beside the law there is need of another liuely Iudge Who denieth that Melancthon in Resp ad Ant. Bauar tom 3. We openly confesse that there must be iudgments in the Church But indeed they will haue the Scripture onelie to be this Iudge For thus Zuinglius disput 1. to 1. I will neuer admit any other iudges beside the holie Scriptures Which is in word to admit a Iudge and in effect But not in effect to denie him For the Scripture is the law of Christians and therefore not their Iudge who is to giue sentence according to the law And the Lutherans in Colloq Ratisbon sess 1. when they had saied that Scripture is the rule and square of faith afterward doe adde It is one thing to shew the Iudge◠another to shew the rule Wherein they plainelie distinguish the Scripture and the Iudge Moreouer the testimonies of Scriptures of Fathers and the reasons before alledged do proue that there must be a liuelie or speaking Iudge in the Church which is different from the law or Scripture Finallie it is fond to make Protest iudge can nether heare nor speake such a Iudge and him onely who is both deafe and dūbe and who can nether heare those that contend nor pronounce sentence nor compell them to obey it Furthermore as hath beene often saied in most controuersies betwixt vs and Protestants Scripture doth not so much as seeme to giue sentence for Protestants vnlesse it be
conferred by them and ioyned with some humane principle and brought into sillogisticall forme Whereas a Iudge must be such as by himselfe without anie helpe of ether of the parties he can giue sentence Besides the sentence of the Iudge and especiallie if there can be no appeale from him must be so cleare as no man can doubt for whether partie it is But such is not the sentence of Scripture in manie controuersies Agayne there is controuersie betwene vs about diuers bookes of which the rest of the Scripture saieth nothing Finallie before Moises the Church had no Scripture and for sometime after Christ it had no parte of the new testament and yet she neuer wanted a Iudge And as we saw in the Chapter before Protestants confesse that Scripture of it selfe is not sufficient to determine all controuersies of faith and therefore not to iudge all Wherefore we must needs haue some other Iudge For these and the like causes some Protestants seing how absurd it is that Scripture is the onely Iudge in the Church say that Christ or the holie Ghost speaking in the Scripture is the Iudge Whitaker c. 7. cit We say that this Iudge is the holie Ghost speaking in the Scripture In like sorte Confes Heluet. c. 12. Academia Nemaus loc cit Lutherans in Colloq Ratisb sess 9. and others But seing Christ or the holie Ghost is no otherwise in the Scripture then as in a signe of his will to say that the holie Ghost as he is in Scripture is Iudge is no other thing indeed then to say that the Scripture is iudge And as the King as he is in his written laws is not a sufficient iudge of the common wealth because els eueÌ„ after his death he should be iudge but besides there must be a liuing iudge who both heareth and speaketh who can heare the parties and giue senteÌ„ce So nether is the holie Ghost a sufficient iudge is in the holie Scripture Others therefore acknowledge that there must be in the Church a speaking iudge or man For thus Eliensis loc cit Wherefore we all of long time demand a free and lawfull synod Protest admit a liuing Iudge in words And Lutherans in Colloq cit sess 9. We professe that God hath giuen some power to the Ministers and Doctors of the Church to iudge of controuersies of religion Neuerthelesse in trueth they denie the verie nature of the Iudge For ether they will not admit such a Iudge as we are bound to obeyâ— as appeareth by that they denie the vniuersall Church all Pastors or generall Councels to be infallible yea Moulins in the preface of his Bucler saieth that there But not in effect can be no greater temeritie then to desire that men sinners may be infallible iudges of the seÌ„se of the law And the LutheraÌ„s loc cit It is simply and absolutely certaine that the Ministerie may erre But this in trueth is to denie the Iudge whose end is The iudge in the Church admitteth not appeale to make peace and to compose debates which he cannot doe vnlesse men be bound to obey him and all the foresaied authorities reasons which proue that there ought to be a iudge in the Church proue also that he ought to be such from whome we may not appeale Wherevpon Whitaker CoÌ„t 1. q. 5. c. 4. thus writeth I answere that those words Deuteron 17. cit are to be vnderstood of authoritie to define hard contentions and controuersies as Ecclesiasticall by the Minister and politicall by the Magistrate that there might be in both some from whome there should be no appeale els there would be no end of contending But this he meaneth onely in the Nether in outward nor inward Courte externall or outward courte not in the inward courte of conscience For thus he addeth A great weight of iudgement was in the Priest and what he had once determined was good in the externall courte that so controuersies and debates might be ended And Cont. 4. q 1. cap. 2. Controuersies may be brought to the externall Courte and there defined but conscience resteth not in that Courte But this shift is easilie refuted First because the distruction of the externall Courâ—e is without cause deuised in this matter Secondlie because the peace of the Church especially consisteth in the internall courte to wit in faith Wherefore in this Courte we may not appeale from the Iudge of the Church otherwise there would neuer be peace of conscience Thirdly the practise of the Church in the Councell of the Apostles and in other generall Councels sheweth that the Iudge of the Church hath power to end controuersies euen in the inward courte of conscience Finallie if one were bound to obey the iudgement of the Church in the outward Courte and not in the inward it would follow that sometimes he were bound to denie Gods trueth before men to wit if the Church should define against Gods trueth Besides the authoritie of the Church is spirituall and ouer the soule and therefore her power of iudging extendeth it selfe euen to the inwarde Courte of the â—oule Wherefore let this be our 29. argument Whose doctrine in manie and weightie matters doth so contradict the expresse words of Scripture as they dare not admit anie Iudge in the Church they are to be thought to contradict the true sense of the Scripture But such are Protestants Therefore c. CHAPTER XXX THAT PROTESTANTS DOE SOMEtimes confesse that their doctrine doth contradict the holie Scripture THE last proof which we will make to shew that Protestants doe contradict the true sense of Scripture shal be taken from their owne confession wherewith sometimes they confesse it implicitlie sometimes plainelie and expressely Implicitly they confesse it diuers wayes First because they acknowledge that they Protest cannot reconcile their doctrine with the Scripture know not how to reconcile their doctrine with the holie Scripture Luther de seru arbit to 2. fol. 466. How this is iust that he God condemneth those that deserue it not is now incomprehensible yet it is beleiued till the Sonne of man be reuealed Et f. 486. In the light of grace it is vnanswerable how God condemneth him who with all his power can doe nothing but sinne and be guiltie Here both the light of nature and the light of Grace teach that it is not the fault of wretched man but of vniust God Et to 1. f. 390. It is a wonderfull probleme that God rewardeth iustice which himselfe reputeth iniustice Melancthon in Rom. 9. edit 1. This misterie is inexplicable that God both willeth sinnes and yet truelie hateth them Peter Martyr in locis Class 1. c. 16. § 9. It is no meruaile that we cannot vnderstand how it is not contrarie to Gods iustice to punish sinnes and by tempting to enforce them because God can doe more then we can vnderstand Caluin 1. Institut capit 18. § 3. By reason of the weaknesses of our vnderstanding we doe not
he nether mentioneth the lawes of answering my saied booke which I set downe and proue by reason testimonie of holie Fathers and confession of Protestants ought to be kept in answering such a booke And which lawes I tell him before hand that vnles he ether keepe or refute I would accounte his answer no solid or lawfull answere but the babling of one who could neither sufficiently answere nor yet hould his peace Secondly because he maketh no other answere to the manifold and manifest depositions of the best learned Protestants which I haue my self brought and clearly confuted by the depositions or testimonies them selues against which confutation of myne he replieth nothing but standeth mute Thirdly because he so miserably mangleth the answere which I make to their Sophisme wherewith they by pretense of true Doctrin would proue that they haue alwaies had true Pastors and People who taught and beleiued it and so pittifully replieth to the saied answere as he plainly sheweth him self to be a true Heretike that is conuicted in his owne iudgement as I think euerie one that compareth his lecture with my Booke will clearly perceiue 4. But sith the Protestants cheife and almost whole pretense of the truth and euer being of their Church is the pretense of the truth of their doctrin by the Scripture I will euidently shew euen by the light of Reason and Prudence that they haue no reasonable or colourable pretense of Scripture but that it maketh expresly clearly and directly against theÌ„ and for Catholiks almost in all points of coÌ„trouersie For whereas there be twoe waies to shew Twoe waies to proue that the Scripture is against Protest that the holie Scripture is plainely against Protestants the one by conferring of diuers places together by bringing the exposition of the holie Fathers decrees of Councels and tradition of the Church the other by onely comparinge the expresse words of Catholiks and ProtestaÌ„ts with Protest Doctrin as clearly contrarie to Scripture as yea is to no. expresse words of holie Scripture touching the same matter I take not the first way which hithertoe Catholike writers haue followed because it is not so fit to the capacitie of commun people for whome especially I compose this worke but the second which is as cleare for euerie one that hath reason to see as it is cleare to see that Yea and Yea of the same matter agree and that Yea and Nay do disagree 4. This perhaps may seeme strange nay impossible to simple Protestants whose eares haue bene still accustomed to heare their ministers vaunt and brag of the word of God of the Scripture and Bible and to auouch that Catholiks haue nothing to alleadge for theÌ„ selues but traditions and word of men But I beseech such to suspend a while their iudgment and sith they wil haue the Protestants doctrin to be tried or iudged by nothing but by Scripture onely let them grant me these two conditions Two conditions to proue the Scripture to be against Protest 1. Touching the letter 2. Touching the sense of trying their doctrin by the Scripture which the very light of reason the authoritie of holie Fathers and the Confession of the best learned Protestants will enforce them to graunt The first condition is touching the words or letter of the holie Scripture The second is touching the sense or meaning of the saied words or letter For as the holie Scripture consisteth of two partes whereof the one is the word or letter the other is the sense therof so I require one condition for the word and an other for the sense 5. The condition touching the word or letter is that the words of holie Scripture be taken as they be in the The 1. coÌ„ditioÌ„ toâ—ching the letter proued Bible or booke of God without anie addition subtraction or transposition breefly without anie chopping or changing whatsoeuer This condition is so iust and reasonable as I think no reasonable man will denie it and neuertheles I wil proue it First because where God alone is Iugde there it is reason that all men be silent and onely harken what God saieth nor interrupt or corrupt his words Let vs heare Lib. 1. peccat c. 20. De vnit c. 13 Serm. 27. de verb. Apo. saieth S. Austin our lord and not ghesses or suspitions of men Againe I beleiue that which I read in holie Scripture not that which vaine Heretiks say And other where There is a controuersie risen let is goe to the Iudge let the Prophet iudge yea let God iudge by the Prophet let vs both hold our peace And yet againe let vs not heare This I say This thou saiest but let vs Lib. 6. cont Iul. c. 4. In Confutat Latomito 2. fol. 234. heare This our lord saieth Yea Luther writeth That mans word added vnto Gods word is a couer nay mans dung wherwith pure truth is hidden Moreouer seing Protestants impose silence to the Church Councells Fathers and all Catholiks in decision of matters of faith and therin admit onely the written word of God it were impudencie for them to request to speake Agayne if Protestants will mingle their owne words with the words of God they admit not the onely word of God for iudge of controuersies but partely also their owne and make one entire iudge of them both Finally Protestants are wonte to crie that the Scriture is the onely and profest rule of faith that they will heare Beza cont Heshus Daneus Cont. 3. 6. 7. Hospin part 2 Caluin cont versipel cont Cathalon nothing besides Scripture that nothing is to be taught but the pure written word nothing to be beleiued but that which is expressely conteined in the Scripture Let them heare therefore in these twoe hundred and sixte points in which I will compare their doctrine with the Scripture mere Scripture onely Scripture and let them harken to nothing but Scripture let all their owne words whatsoeuer be set aside let the Scriptures pure and onely words shew and iudge whether Catholik or Protestant doctrin in these 260. points here set downe be agreable or disagreable vnto it 6. The second condition touching the sense is That The 2. condition touching the sense proued the pure written word of God may iudge betwixt vs according to the pure sense therof which when it is spoken clearly or of purpose to tell vs what Gods meaning is of it self and according to the vsual acception of men it doth afford and this is euident also especiallie if the Church must not be admitted to be the infallible Interpreter of the true sense of Scripture But neuertheles I proue it First because Protestants cannot set downe anie condition which is so reasonable or indifferent to both partes Secondly because ether the Scripture in matters of controuersie clearly declareth her meaning by her self without any help or exposition of man or she doth not If she clearly declare her meaning by her self then needeth she no help of man