first how vnwares he speaketh contrarie to him selfe He confesseth flatly that this negatiue of S. Gregorie wherin he denieth any ought to be vniuersall Bishop is in defence of the truth Yet Maister Harding in the fourth article goeth about to proue that the pope is vniuersal B. so by his own confession he goeth about to proue a lye Secondarely he confesseth at the last that Maister Cranmar was a Byshop and Maister Iuell with other his felowes are Bishops yet at other times he and his fellowes wil in no case graunt it Thirdly he saith no B. of Sarisburie was a Caluinist before Maister Iuell and that is a manifest lye Fourthly that no Byshop of Canterbury was maried before Cranmar and that is an otherlie So in al this former péece either he speaketh nothing but lyes or if it be true it is such truth as by open writing he hath impugned But Maister Harding bicause he can not deny this contrarietie he will bid vs proue the other that any B. of Sarisbury hath bene of one religion with Caluin or that any B. of Cant. hath bene maried In déede this is the ground of their whole religion bold asseuerations without any manner warrant and then they bid vs proue the contrary But although this vnequall dealing be not good and he that teacheth anye thing shoulde proue the same to be true yet I am content for truthes sake to reproue in fewe woordes these negatiues of Maister Hardings First this forbidding mariage was vniuersally established by Pope Siluester the seconde who was made Pope by the meanes and woorking of the deuil as their own writers confesse in the yeare of our Lord 980. Yet I graunt through the folly of vnlearned bishops about .400 yeares after Christ matrimonie in the cleargy began to be misliked especially in the West church For in the East church they made no account of it yea they thought it was no hinderaunce to the minister for perfourmance of his dutie in Gods church But as I haue said the West church in many places forbad it And S. Ierom although in many places he speake reuerently and well of it yet in some places vpon his owne priuate affection he misliketh it But as touching this purpose more then thre hundred yeares after Christ Priestes mariage was thought verie lawfull But the English men receiued the faith of Christ in the latter time of Nero as Gildas witnesseth an olde writer and a Britan who liued in the yeare of our Lord .580 and will Maister Harding say that the thing being lawfull yet in .300 yeare togither there was neuer a Byshop maried And let Mayster Harding héere make no exception either that in those dayes ther was no Byshops of Canterbury or Sarisbury or that Gildas auctority is not good Theodoretus saith that S. Paule him selfe preached héere in his latter time Nicephorus and other moe say they receiued the fayth in the yere of our Lord 63. by Ioseph of Arimathia After this supersticion began againe to bréede then an .179 many preachers were sent for to call them againe to their former profession Whervpō Tertullian speaking of this age saith Britānorum inaccessa Romanis loca Christo fuerin◠subdita And Petrus Cluniacensis speaking of the Scots calleth them christianos antiquiores the most auncient christian men And the story is knowen how Lucius then King of England was very diligent in setting out the Gospell Thus it appeareth the true faith hath bene in Englande almost euer since our sauiour Christ died Now y t in those daies ther wer bishops in Englād it is likewise manifest When Eleutherius the Pope 177. sent preachers into England they found here .3 called archiflamines and .25 called flamines which he turned in to thrée archbishops .25 byshops Thus much then is clere that in England were Christian bishops and they might mary Now to proue that they were maried it is plaine by Gildas in the latter ende of his booke where he reproueth the Bishops their wiues and their children So this lying negatiue of M. Harding is reproued that sayth no Bishop was euer maried in England before Bishop Cranmer For the other negatiue that there was neuer B. of Sarisburie of that religion which Caluine taught it appeareth by M. Iuels Replie which sheweth that not onely in England but in all Christendome that religion was in the chiefest articles professed And yet bicause it is here brought with the suretie of M. Hardings warrant we wyll speake a little of this negatiue It is boldlye auouched of manye popish Priestes that Christianitie was placed here by Augustine which is called the Englishe Bishop He was sent from Rome and landed in the Ile of Tenet in Kent an 596. But it is alredy shewed that we had the faith of Christ long before Then what did Augustine here I will tell thée Christian Reader and I wyll tell thée that which M. Harding shall nener be able to confute He did first perswade the King and Quéene not to enforce his new religion but to leaue it fréely to men to follow if they would Afterward being made Bishop of Canterburie by consent of a Synode he thrust into that Church altars vestiments images Masses challices crosses candlesticks ▪ sensers banners processions holy water holy bread funerals tithes and such other stuffe whych before that time was neuer séene in England Then he changed their kéeping of Easter day taught them manye ceremonies in Baptisme and when he coulde not bring all men to his diet he moued great persecution against such as defended the libertie of the Church Then he receiued from Rome relickes of diuers Saintes buylt a Monasterie to Saint Peter wrought many fained miracles and so at the last he died about the yeare of our Lord .610 Now for further proofe of this that Augustine marred and not made our religion it is verye probable that we neuer receiued our faith from Rome but from the East Church First bicause we vntill Augustine came among vs kept our Easter after the manner of the Gréeke Church Now it is well knowen what mortall hatred there was for that matter so that he which was enstructed of the one would in no wyse vse the order of the other Agayne when Augustine should be sent vnto them he came backe for feare and the Britaines would not receaue him nor acknowledge anye authoritie of Pope Gregorie ouer them Which sure they would neuer haue done if they had receaued theyr fayth from Rome Thus much then followeth we had the faith of the Gréeke Church without all superstitious ceremonies of the Church of Rome and so it is manifest our bishops were then of Maister Caluines profession in the whole substaunce of their religion And so is this other negatiue of M. Harding prooued a lye This I haue sayd the more at large bicause M. Hardyng and his fellowes woulde haue vs beleue that our faith came from the Pope and Dan Augustine
of the Apostels heresies our sauiour Christ a Samaritan But as for your Portuise which is your light whether it be darknesse or no I craue no Arbitrer I require but triall and as Elias saide to the priests of Baal let vs take eyther our bullock and laie the péeces on our aultars and on which God sendeth fire let that be the light You haue halted to long on both sides it is now time to walke vp right Offer vp your Portuise to Maister Iuell if he proue it not a heape of lies a sincke of iniquitie a déepe dungion of blasphemouse herisies agaynst the eternall sonne of God his euerlasting priesthood we will all subscribe And for the assuraunce of our meaning we saie with the Apostle behold before God we lie not if you dare not doe this the Christian Reader must remember you are woorse then Baals prophets Consider then Maister Harding in what waters you wade and looke better what is light darknesse For the ignoraunce of gods worde the Gentiles were said to sit in darkenesse and in the shadow of death the vnbeléeuing Iewes to be blinde leaders of the blinde and he that knewe it not to go he wist not whether But the darckning of that worde hath bene your chiefest light and ignoraunce the mother of your deuotion and as in the sacrifices of Isis and Serapis you haue made Harpocrates image with his finger on his lyps in token that your misteries must be kept secrete and as the Egiptians you haue your two diuers caracters that Robin Hoode and Gui of Warwick and Beuis of Hampton such like shoulde be had of the people in english letters But the misteries of our redemption the glorious tidings of the death of Christ were in straunge figures for the hasarde of deuotion they might not be made common So that of Launcelot Dulake of Lamorake de Galis of Sir Tristram de Lyones or Marlin the Prophet we could tell many weary tales but of Paule of Peter Iames or Iohn â–ª besides the bare names not one among a hundred could tell a lyne not withstanding the continual crying of wysdome in the stréetes the callyng of our Sauiour for the sielie lyttleones O M. Hardyng this is no light It was the tyme of Dioclesian when the Scriptures were burned the abhominations of Manasses when they were hyd in the Temple the kingdome of Antiochus when they were cut in péeces and to compare lyke with lyke your Antichristian iurisdiction where they are kept in couert Wherin you shew that great plague to rest vpoÌ„ you which who so heareth eyther eare shall tingle that you haue the famine of the woord of God When the cogitacion of maÌ„s hart euen from hys youth was euyll the worlde ouerrun w t couetousnesse God purged that iniquitie with his drowning waters when the crie of Sodome and Gomor did ascende to heauen God quenched their filthie lustes wyth fire and brimstone the frowardnesse of hys people the breach of his lawes the bloud of hys prophetes with pestilence famine banishments such other sundrie and diuers plagues but the death of hys onely heire wyth the letting out of the Uineyard to others and the bloud of hys beloued Sonne with the scourge of ignoraunce that vnto this daie they beleue not his glorious Gospel And how must the Popes kingdom néedes tremble feare that acknowledgeth the punishments of Christes death to maintaine their religion Now for our deliuerie from the maintenaunce of darkenes S. Paul biddeth vs not beleue an Angel of heauen that bringeth an other Gospell therefore we dare not be led with any blinde custome to shadowe the same light we haue receiued If you shall otherwyse be alway minded I se in an Etnick hart the effect of that etnicks praier virtutem vt videant intabesâ—antque relicta that you might sée vertue and pine away with want of it After this foloweth a sober excuse that Maister Harding maketh of him selfe that although through infirmitie he oftentimes offend yet in matters of faith he hath no peruerse iudgement The reason is bicause he doth submit him self to the church of Rome â–ª Much better this argument would hold the other way bicause he is in the church of Rome he is in all filthinesse superstition of a sinfull lyfe and of a corrupt religion hauing the heauie hand of God ouer him that except he repent the same woe shall light vppon him which so vnwisely he hath deriued to other Hardyng ¶ This matter is well to be weighed the case you stand in is deeplie to be considered This much you cannot denie you haue for your parte broken the vnitie that is so much commended vnto vs in the scriptures and all holy fathers The Catholicke churche sayth Saint Cyprian can be one it can not be cut and deuided a sunder The catholicke Churche alone is the bodie of Christ saith S. Augustine whereof he is the head the sauiour of his bodie Without hys body the holye Ghost giueth life to none Therefore in an other place he saith whosoeuer is seperat from the catholick churche how lawdable so euer he thinketh himselfe to liue for this onely wickednesse that he is deuided from the vnity of Christ he shall not haue lyfe but the wrath of God remaineth vpon him Dering Here is a sad admonition concerning the catholike Churche which we acknowledge to be the bodie of Christ and he the onely heade of it so that without it there is no saluation But for the triall of this Church we go to the Scriptures and doe examine ech spirit whether he be of God or no and such as saie they be Apostles and be none we haue founde them lyars therefore we run out from among them as out of the middest of Babilon out of their wicked assemblies and donne of théeues from their abominations of Moab and spirituall fornications and ar come againe to our merciful Father that hath prepared his fatlings for vs and put on vs our wedding garment and placed vs at his great Supper in the felowship of his church where we abide thorough his mercie and looke for our resolucion that our ioy maie be full And for our assurance to be of that number we haue the warraÌ„t of the Scriptures first for that we harken onely to Christ and heare not the voice of any stranger then for that we confesse that they alone can saue our soules And as S. Paul saith can make the man of God perfit to all good workes And considering that Prophecie came not in the olde time by the wyll of man but holie men of God spake as they were mooued by y e holy ghost we dare not admit any priuate interpretation but take héede vnto the worde as vnto a light that shineth in a darke place for that is the daye starre which is risen in our harts Therefore we presume not to vnderstand aboue that which
dominicum vntill the next sunday Then of like they receiued euery sunday This argumeÌ„t saith M. Harding is slender a learned man will be ashamed of it And he answereth it with an other argument if thou wilt haue a paterne of a good one marke it well The wordes are saith he quando communicat when she dothe communicate Ergo she did not communicate euery sunday He that will reprehend M. Iuels argument it is reason himself should haue made a better By suche reasons we may conclude what we wil. When she did communicate therfore she did it not euery sunday Then when we go to dinner we sit downe Therfore we goe not to dinner euery day Suche prooues may be soone made Biside this M. Harding chalengeth the translation but that is not worthe answering Alias is commonly vsed for the next fallacia alia aliam trudit Nos alia ex alijs in fata vocamur Aliud ex alio malum Ex alio in aliud vicissitudo And if we say in Englishe we must tary for another terme euery wise man doth vnderstand it we must tary til the next terme Thus hear appeareth no insufficiencie in M. Iuels proofe but muche folowing M. Hardings vntruthe The B. of Saris. Likewise Socrates writeth thus in Greke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to say to haue a congregation or assembly by theÌ„selues Harding The .168 There are no suche words in that place in Socrates Dering False quotation needeth no great excuse The B. of Saris. Let Missa be taken for the Masse that is for the ministration of the Sacraments Harding The .169 It doth not signify the ministration of the sacrameÌ„ts Dering Betwéene M. Stapleton and M. Harding maister Iuel can say nothing without blame The sixth vntruthe noted by maister Iuel out of maister Hardings answer is this S. Andrew said the Communion and not the Masse In the returne of this vntruth saith maister Stapleton you speake fondly the Masse and the Communion is al one Héere saith maister Iuel let the Masse be taken for the Communion That is an vntruthe saith maister Harding it can not be so taken Thus we sée these men are at a point speake maister Iuel what he wil so long as he speaketh truthe he shall not escape blame Whether Missa may signifie the Communion or no. Reade more in the .17 vntruthe The B. of Sarisb Verily it is prouided by the decree it selfe that in priuate Chappels there should be a lawfull and an ordnarie company Harding The .170 vntruthe It was not prouided Dering To make this vntruthe perfect M. Harding hath bound it with a double asseueration verily verily this is a false lie But surely surely there is little honesty to vse so muche wrangling where the matter it selfe is plaine The words of the decrée are these vt ibi missas teneat propter fatigationem familiae iusta ordinatione permittimus we permit that in due order for the wearinesse of his housholde he may haue Masse in his priuate Oratorie Now though maister Harding goe not the right way to proue his priuate Masse that goeth to séeke it out in priuate chappels yet let vs way well what this permission is The decrée saith iusta ordinatione or iusto ordine so without due order it might not be not in priuate Oratories and to haue it with order was to haue a number of Communicantes So this permission yet makes no priuate Masse Againe the decrée saith propter fatigatiouem familiae for the wearinesse of the housholde whereby it appeareth the householde must communicate For if they should not haue gon to church how should they haue ben werie of going theÌ„ was there not yet priuate Masse Thirdly it was graâ—â—ted in those parishes in which beside that householde there was legittimus ordinariusque conuentus in which there was beside a sufficient companie What neded this exception if the Priest might haue sayd Masse receiued aâ—one Litle companie will serue to make one communicate Thus we sée Maister Harding doeth no where speake more aduisedly than where he maketh most constant asseueration The B. of Saris. Vincentius writeth after Gregorius was dead Bonifacius ruled the church of Rome This Boniface obtained of the Emperour Phocas that the church of Rome should be the head of all churches and that bicause the church of Constantinople wrote it selfe by that title The next yeare after that Augustine that was called the English mens bishop died The yeare folowing Iohn the Almonar was in great fame at which time also Mahomet first spred his religion in Arabia Harding The .171 vntruth Vincentius vvriteth not so Dering If thou knowest not what wrangling is now learne Maister Harding findeth here diuerse faults The first that Bonifacius was not next Gregorie and true I think it be Sauinianus was one yere betwene and what skilleth that to priuate Masse Or why should Maister Iuel of purpose speake here vntruly It is very probable he might forget the order of the Popes that was so occupied to set out Gods religion This was not worth the noting Another fault is where Vincentius saith Augustine the firstâ— English Bishop Maister Iuel saith thus Augustine that was called the English bishop What contention aboute words is this â–ª Another fault is bi cause he alleageth not one sentâ—nce where Vincentius doeth commend the Almonars libâ—ralitie Except Maister Iuell would haue filled his booke with idle words this was nothing necessarie He searcheth 〈…〉 what I killeth it then to alleage hiâ— coâ—â—â—â—dations We reade in Plato that a 〈…〉 was euer wonâ— to make suche aâ—nswerâ—s â–ª when Cherephon asketh Polus what science Gorgias professeth Polus always is vp with a speciall commendation of it and neuer tels what it is But Socrates sayd that was nothing to the purpose there was no man dispraised it so what helpeth it when we aske of the Almonars age to alleage Vincentius commendation of him No man disprayseth him we séeke for his age we enquire not of his qualities lette the man alone The fourthe faulte is that he parteth this saying What tyme Mahomet spred his religion in Arabia in the distincte letter of the Doctours allegations This doyng helpeth Maister Iuell neuer a whit For if it be true what skilleth it who sayth it Againe if the Printer make not his letters well Maister Iuell is not to blame Here are foure faulteâ— founde without salte or â—auoure yet there is an other and that is that aboute this time Mahomet spred not his religion For he beganne sayth Maister Harding in the latter time of Heraclitus the Emperour Maister Harding is verie supersticious in computation of times or this would séeme to bée a verie â—ender 〈◊〉 Phocas began his raigne in the yeare of our Lord .604 three yeares after that Bonifacius was made Pope â–ª 607. it was foure yeares after that Iohn the Almonar shoulde saye this Masse Anno .610 within .xix. yeareâ— after in the ninetene yeare of Heraclitus
exquisite crueltye against them and yet for all this shall we thinke that Peter vvas bishop I leaue here to speake of Peters ovvne epistles the last written a little before his death what time this persecution shoulde haue bene in the greatest rage yet Peter doeth not so muche as once mention any suche thing The former was writeÌ„ about the .12 yere of Claudius and by expresse words dated from Babilon which thing bicause it is a most euideÌ„t token that Peter was theÌ„ no bishop of Rome Therfore they make this glose vpon it From Babylon that is from Rome and vvhat a miserable shift is this in defence of Peters bishoprike to confesse Rome to be Babylon But Rome as it is it shal be Babylon and their religion as it is it shall be the purple vvhore and the Pope as he is he shall be Antichrist rather than they vvill lose this succession of Peter And heere to make the fable perfect they shut it vp vvith tvvo especiall lies The one that Paule and Peter bothe died in one day The other that Christ met Peter flying avvay and bad him goe back and suffer death As touching the first vve reade of Paule vvhen he vvas conuerted he vvas a yong man and vvhen he vvent to Ierusalem to see Peter Athanasius saith he vvent for reuerence â–ª that he bare to Peters age So it seemeth Peter vvas gray headed vvheÌ„ Paule vvas but young About .25 yeres after Paule vvryteth to Philemon Though I be as I am euen Paule an olde man Then vvhat vvas Peter at these yeares Yet Paule liueth after this ten yeare and then wryteth of hym selfe that the tyme of his resolution is at hande Paule had novv finished euen his naturall course a very probable coniecture that he outliued Peter But this other vntruthe that vve speake of is aboue all coniecture shamelesse and vnreasonable They saye that Peter the night before he shoulde suffer fledde avvay and as he vvas going Christ met him vvhome vvhen he had seene Peter sayd vnto him Domine quò vadis Maister vvhether goest thou Then christ made aunswere Romam iterum crucifigi to Rome that I may be crucified againe Then Peter perceiued that Christ spake of him and so he returned and vvas crucified as if Peter him selfe had neuer taught vs that the heauens must containe and kepe Christ vntill the time that all things be restored vvhiche shall not be accomplished vntill the last day and thus endeth the fable of Peters bishoprike in Rome Novv good christian Reader thou consider of it as the truthe shall moue thee and vvay the Pope and Papistry vvhat it is Searche the scriptures saith â–ª our sauior Christ. For they doe beare vvitnesse of me But searche the scriptures vvhile thou vvilt thou canst not finde one line for the Popes supremacie no title for proofe of Peters bishoprike in Rome A certaine argument the Pope is not of Christ. And as this head and vvell spring of all this iniquitie I meane the Pope him selfe hath no vvarrant in the vvorde of God so his religion that it may be like him selfe is altogether contrary and beside the vvorde of God What should I here recite all particulares Searche the scriptures thou shalt not finde neither Masse nor Mattens Diriges Trentals Dispensations Iubileis Indulgences Pardones Pâ—lgrimage Holy water Holy bread Crucifixe Rodes Banners Tapers Sensors Paxes Pixes Canopies Copes Corporase Vestments Albes Stoales Tunicles Saccaring Eleuation Altare Altareclothes Superaltaries Howseling Shriuing Aneling Dispeling Creping Halovving of Bels Halovving of Churches Halovving of Fountes Monethes mindes Lent Vigill Aduent Praying to saintes praying for the deade praying in a straunge tongue none other of the xxv Articles mencioned by maister Iuell And vvhat shoulde I speake of all that are almoste infinite Reade their Portuise and reade the Bible thou shalt finde no leafe of agreement And this none can denye vvho so euer is most frovvardly bent What resteth then if vve loue God and his holy vvorde but that vve consider our vvayes and see vvhether vve vvalke as he hathe taught vs. There is no heauen but his dvvelling place no vvalking vnto it but by his coÌ„maundements and his commandementes no vvhere to be founde but in the Scriptures vvhich he hath left vs. Next vnto Gods glory we haue nothing so precious as the sauegarde of our owne soules And where shall we finde the saluation of our soules but in the vvorde of God God graunt vnto thee his holy spirite that thou mayest heare his worde and keepe the same to the obedience of his will and the saluation of thine owne soule Amen Farewell from Christes colledge in Cambridge the .iiij. of April Anno Domini 1568. Thine in the Lorde Edward Dering ¶ An Aunswere to M. Hardings Epistle wrytten vnto Mayster Iuel Hardyng ¶ Although M. Iuell when you proclaimed your chalenge at the beginning you promised to yelde and subscribe if any man alyue were able to bryng anye one sentence out of any old Doctour Councell Scripture or exaÌ„ple of primitiue Church for proofe of any one of all your articles yet verily I am perswaded no wyse man beleued what soeuer or how much so euer were brought that you would stand vnto your promise c. So then the largenesse of your promise to others maketh shewe of your confidence and to your selfe the regarde of it encreaseth stubbernesse Dering WHen king Alaxander had proclaimed war against Darius a certaine boasting PersiaÌ„ in stéede of more manhood vsed muche vnreuerent talke agaynst them of Macedonia and especially against Alexander hymselfe But Memnon hys Captayne perceiuing thys soldiours valiantnesse to be all in his railing tongue at the last strake hym wyth hys speare and sayde Ego te alo vt pugnes non vt maledicas I retayne thée to fight and not to speake euyll The very lyke of thys is happined among vs and thys pratyng Soldiour doth play hys part agayne The Byshop of Sarisburie our Alexander in Christian warre and godly courage hath made proclamacion against the Pope that proude Prince Darius Kyng of Babilon Now least there should want a Soldiour to speake euyll of Alexander Maister Harding hath taken vpon hym that part and spareth no péece of hys cunning by all meanes possible to debase thys good enterprise God if it be hys wyll once make hym know hym selfe or if he shall continue in hys euyll speakyng sende ouer hym some Memnon that may chasten hys intemperate tongue In thys beginning of hys Epistle there is lyttle woorthy aunswering He pronounceth boldly of M. Iuels entent yet no man knoweth the things of a man saue the spirite of man which is within hym Hys writing is like a Crowe in Peacocks feathers or an ylfauored Ape in a purple garment The handlyng of hys matter is very beautifull and the substance is nothing woorth And yet in hys maner of resoning bicause M. Iuell wyll not subscribe he concludeth that he is both
confident and stubburne Hys confidencie I graunt He hath learned the good lesson of hys heauenly Father Confidite ego vici mundum be confident for I haue ouercome the world The Lorde is his helper and he shall not be moued for euer He is guiltie to him selfe of no crime herein he waxeth not pale with the memorye of any fault and therefore in the feare of God he hath sayd vnto hys soule hic murus aheneus esto stand fast as a brazen wall Would God M. Hardyng had had the lyke confidence the scornfull reproches of the proud should not haue proued hym stubburne Hardyng ¶ Our Lord yet if it be his pleasure once open your eyes and giue you grace to see the daunger of the poole you wade in Beware by tyme M. Iuell you fall not into the horrible gulfe that Salomon speaketh off Impius cum in profundum malorum venerit contemnit When the wicked man commeth into the bottom of euils he becommeth careles settyng all at nought If once you fall into thys bottom what hope is there of your recouery For whereas none returneth from euyll but he that repenteth hym of euil How can he repent that hath cast away all care Yea how can he steppe backe from euill and be made good that saith whose miserable state Esay lamenteth euyll is good and good is euyll How can he see the right way that maketh darknes light and light darknes How can he delight in sweete thyngs that taketh sowre for sweete and sweete for sowre Dering From these vncharitable beginnings M. Harding falleth as it may séeme to a charitable prayer but were the same acceptable in the sight of God he himselfe should returne from all hys abhominations now it procéedeth from the Minister of iniquity We are put in minde of the country prouerb that it is ill wyth the Géese when the Fox preacheth If the prayers were ryghteous he pretendeth here not our bloud but their owne teares should haue watred their eyes Nowe bicause their prosperitie hath bene the slaughter house of Satan this submission in aduersity can be but the Crocodiles teares If God of hys iustice shoulde carye vs agayne captiues into Babilon we know the purple whoore and the whyps of hir fornication But God be praysed the lynes are fallen to vs in pleasaunt places yea we haue a fayre heritage for the waye that Maister Iuell wadeth in it is not that horrible gulphe which M. Harding can not sée wherein the bottom of all euyll abydeth The spirite of God is our warrant that it is the narrow way which leadeth vnto euerlastyng lyfe there is no cause why M. Iuell should repent him of this iourneying he walketh in the way of health God of hys good wyll and mercie shall giue vnto hym that hys course be finished in the same He maketh not good euill nor euyll good he putteth not darknesse for light nor light for darknesse he saith not swéete is sower and sower is swéete And for as much as the whole controuersie betwéene vs doth rest in this whether of vs is in darknesse it shall not be tedious vnto the Christian Reader if in the woord of God we doe séeke for triall for that giueth vnto the simple sharpnesse of wyt and to the children knowledge and discretion neyther is it hydden but from the eyes of the scorner neither yet peruerted but of the wycked Let vs aske of the same woord what is good what is the lyght and what is swéete It is good for thée saith Peter to harken vnto the woorde And thy woorde saith Dauid is a lantern vnto our féete a light vnto our steppes and the same woorde is more swéete then hony and the hony combe Then as thys same word is true so we are assured of all goodnesse all light and pleasure if we follow it and therefore blesse onesse is pronounced ouer hym that readeth and them that heare that prophecie Now doe we call the world to wytnesse whether they or we do set out thys woorde We haue it in our churches and priuate houses we expounde it to the people we exhort them to reade it we call the ignorant from their errours wyth the same voyce that S. Augustine was called tolle lege tolle lege Take vp and reade and thys is as the holy Ghost doth witnesse good lyght and swéete But these men that crake so of their goodnesse what haue they done They haue pulled thys woorde out of their synagoges they haue not suffred it in the poore mans dwellyngs they haue not expounded it as the whole world can iudge they haue not made it the squire of their religion And if in any place that little booke was séene though in the houses of Bishops and Prelats yea in the verie palaces of Popes Cardinalls yet did it sléepe in the dust or if the candle was light it was set vnder a bushell The people did not knowe the meanes of their saluation the merite of Christes passion was mingled with mans good workes his continuall intercession darkned with the mediation of saints his bloudie drops wiped away with the remembring his holye martirs his crying out on the crosse at the yéelding vp of his spirit was not hard thorow the abusing the name of his blessed mother and in steade of other vnderstanding wherwith our soules are comforted we harkened after the straunge sounds of vnknowen trumpets in gadding on pylgrimage in paynting of Tabernacles in sensing of Idols in setting vp of Candels before stocks and stones in blasphemous Masses in idolatrous Altars in halowing of Temples in christining of Bells in selling of Merites in turning of Roodes in a thousand mo iuglings inuented by Satan and practised by his ministers that from the top to the toe from the hill altars vnto the church doore ther was nothing whole in that froward generation Neither they themselues can denie this though they like to dissemble it cry out how they will y t we make euil good and good euill And for the charging vs with darknes the thing so disagréeth that the ignorant require a further proofe and the learned doe sée ther much wrangling eloquence doe we make darknesse light I say as before what shadowes doe we walke in what darkenesse doe we preach wherein are we blinde leaders of the blinde Accusations may not goe for arguments nor slaunderings for sufficient proofe O Maister Harding turne againe to your writings examine your authorities consider your counsails applie your examples looke if any line be blamable in our seruice take hold of your aduantage I think Maister Iuel will accept it as an article No no this offer doeth not like you you see to great a hazarde of your little estimation Our seruice is good and godly euerie title grounded on holie scriptures and with what face doe ye cal it darknesse Sure with the same that the prophecies of the holy ghost were sometyme called dreames the doctrine
did not for his strength but for his craking I maruail he hath so sone forgot his Philosophie Aristotle sayth that craking is to boast of that thing which a man hath not but Goliah had more strength then any one Israelite had not God of his mercy toward Israel confounded it so take away this comparison and he must confesse his ouersight let it stand in force and he must acknowledge M. Iuels strength which strength seing that God doth not ouerthrow but encreaseth it with his mercie it is not Goliathes boasting but it is Dauids faith against which bicause M. Harding hath so aduentured both his strength is weakened and his ignorance bewrayed By Dauids slyng and hys scrip he sayth he knoweth not what is ment yet me thyncketh a man of his yeares should not be ignorant that by denying one mans things to appertaine to an other We saye the persons are not like But M. Harding bicause you know not what is ment by this sling and scrip you must remember Dauid came against this Philistine in the name of the Lord but you come girt with Saules sword and his Target that is with mens deuises to counteruaile Gods word Dauid came to shew that Israel had a God But you come to declare that there is a Pope in Edom. Dauid confessed that the battaile was the Lords But you woulde helpe win the field with your own merits So sith you neither haue Dauids minde nor his purpose Maister Iuell saide you had nether his scrip nor his sling And you shall neuer haue them till you cast awaye your owne armour and in matters of faith take vnto you the furniture of the woord of God Wrest not therfore against the sayntes of the Lord this saying of our sauiour obmutesce et exi de homine We can abide your sayings with the comfort that we haue receiued blessed are you when men reuile you and saye all manner of euill against you Hardyng ¶ For that I and certaine learned men by sundrie treatisies haue wrought to the cōfusion of your goliathship we looke not for the praise of ladies The loking after such rewarde we leaue to you whome the hope therof entiseth to sustaine this wicked trauaile c. How you haue knockt Goliath in the forehed as you crake let it be iudged by that is of late returned vpon you by him that wrote a returne of vntruthes vpon your Replie Dering Maister Harding is very good in insinuations euen nowe by Appelles now by learned men He would haue vs wéene him selfe is sombody but what he is God knoweth Héere he doeth grosely imagine of the ladies of Ierusalem But wyth better aduisement he will forget this fancied pompe and remember a spiritual triumphe So he shal not be very hasty to sing before the victory He saith he will dissemble Maister Iuels vaine and ministerlike talke of the Pope In déede it is his fashion in most partes of this Reioinder when he can not aunswere the auctority to passe it ouer with dissimulation But why doeth he with such disdaine name this ministerlike talke Doeth the name of a Minister so muche offende him God graunt he once looke better to his féete and sée where he wadeth Let him remember the Prophets prayer make the hart of this people fat make their eares heauy and shut their eyes least they vnderstand and be healed It is to be feared God hath giuen him vp to a reprobate sense he is pleased with the name of a priest and the thing belongeth not vnto him he misliketh the name of a minister yet all the Apostels of Christ so named them selues But neither the Apostels names nor yet their religion can please a popish prelate After this Maister Harding commeth to the issue of thys controuersie and howe he hath handled his matter he doeth appeale to the censure of the retourne of vntruthes Why sir is Thomas Stapleton made Pope of late You told vs euen now Maister Iuell had challenged all the learned men in the world and shall this yong man sit Arbiter in so great a controuersy May he now iudge and be iudged of no man Take héede you make not two heades of your synagoge Good Lord to what issue is Maister Harding come Diruta sunt aliis vni tibi pergama restant though other might well scale the ghostly walles of Ierusalem yet to you they stand stronglie fensed When he hath giuen sentence you may haue roume for your history of Megabises Apelles hath set out his tables and you bring the Shoomaker to be iudge but if he passe the slipper we may not then forbeare him we will not set to his decrée the note of the tribune in token that we agrée as he decideth in his cheyre But an euyll cause feareth an indifferent Iudge Harding ¶ But to what purpose is it to stande long in ripping vp your aunswere to my preface you start from place to place and seriouslye prouing nothing fill your paper with much matter impertinent c. Dering Maister Iuell saith M. Harding doth start from place to place I perceiue it is ill halting before a Créeple who soeuer starteth aside he soone espieth him In holes creauises corners bywaies he hath made many a scape in this Reioynder he is seldome long togither in the right way Whosoeuer séeth the great skyps in this article would muse how he came headlong so soone ouer it and yet seing his stayes in many places one would thinke surely he had no further to go so Tigellius like he walketh in his Reioynder As touching M. Iuels maner of confuting his preface seing it is no part of their purpose it skilleth not much whether he confute all in order or no. If M. Harding can saye no woorse by hym let him haue his saying For the matter whether it be impertinent or no the booke is his own Iudge and let it rest vpon triall Harding ¶ You make much a doe about your negatiue and beare the world in hand you may lawfullye and reasonablye stand vpon the negatiue in denying manye pointes of our faith and religion bicause S. Gregorie vsed a negatiue proposition agaynst Iohn B. of Constantinople What though S. Gregorie sayd by way of Negatiue no B. of Rome euer tooke vnto him this name singularitie Agayne what though S. Augustine by a negatiue said In this order of succession there is founde no B. that was a Donatist what though I wold sai as I might say truly if the whole number of them that haue bene B. of Sarisburie before this time ther can be none foūd that was a Caluinist Likewise that of all the Bishops that euer were in Englande none was maried before Cranmer Bicause these things are said by way of negatiue in defence of the truth shall it therefore be lawful for you to vtter your heresies and sclaūderous doctrine by a negatiue to impugne the truth Dering In this long tale of M. Harding we haue to note many things
the Moonke was the messenger Now to quit these negatiues with which M. Harding is so well pleased with like negatiues we may well and truly ouerthrow all popish religion taking example of our sauiour Christes doing For he neuer alowed of their ceremonies He neuer celebrated his last supper alone He neuer ministred in one kinde He neuer made any vniuersall bishop He neuer named Transubstantiacion Masse Mattens Euensong Dirige nor Trentals He neuer went a procession with cope crosse or candlesticke He neuer â—ensed Image nor sang Latin seruice He neuer went to shrift nor sat in confession He neuer preached of Purgatorie nor pardons He neuer honored Saintes nor praied for the dead He neuer fasted Friday Uigil Lent nor Aduent He neuer hallowed Churche nor chalice ashes nor palmes candels nor bels He neuer made holy water nor holy bread He neuer wore Rochet nor Tippet He neuer had Crosse nor Myter Corporas nor Portas shepebooke nor Massebooke Frankincense nor Peterpence wax nor flax nor any such trumperie And therefore by these negatiues we may well conclude that M. Hardings religion is not of Christes institution Harding ¶ Vpon this negatiue it liketh you well to dally and bicause say you it offendeth vs you wyll turne it on our side c. And when you haue made all your turnings you doe as muche for vs as if you gaue a Snake for an Adder c. What proofes we haue and how iustlye we confute your Obiections and Replies let our treatises be examined Dering Maister Iuels negatiue is this that they can not prooue by Scripture Doctour Councell or anye example anye one of these articles which are called into controuersie This negatiue misliketh them Therfore sayth M. Iuell we will take the affirmatiue and prooue their religion not to come from Christes Apostles This I trow is not to dallie but plainlye and vnfainedly to séeke 〈◊〉 the truth Yet saith Maister Harding this is a Snake in stede of an Adder in deede it is true the calling of these articles into question hath stoonge that whorish religion euen vnto death And that Aesculapius Adder that hath lurked so long in Rome for all his quicke sight is by this meanes discouered God be praysed for it for euer and euer Wher Maister Harding saith further let this matter be tried by treatisies I feare not such iudges for sure of all mens doinges their owne lyinges dreamings visions oracles coniurings and such deuises haue giuen their religion the greatest ouerthrowe Hardyng ¶ You report my wordes vntruly as your common maner is making men beleue although I sayd all these articles were of light importaunce c. The lightest of them is of weight to drawe you downe to the rufull state of damned soules if for maintenaunce of your priuate opinion you feare not to breake the vnitie of the church Yet as though I had said what you faslie report me to say you procede and scoffingly demauÌ„d whether ye may thinke that our religion encreaseth and vadeth waxeth and waneth as doth the moone Dering These be Maister Hardings woordes in his Preface to his aunswere Why treate you not of matters of more importance then these be of which yet lye in question betwene the church of Rome and the Protestantes As the presence of Christes bodye and bloude in the Sacrament of Iustification of the value of good woorkes of the Sacrifice of the Masse c. Thys obscure manner of speaking maye séeme to make light of these waightye mattters and therefore who so euer should say so of them deserued litle blame But héere Maister Hardings choler is to much inflamed bicause Maiste Iuell noting their inconstancie asketh whether their Religion encreaseth and vadeth waxeth and waneth as doeth the moone And hath he not thinke you good occasion to aske this question Doeth not Maister Harding saye in many of these articles that they be no keyes of their Religion Yet héere he saith if a man denie them when they be receiued they are of value inoughe to dampne him Where is his wit become What is so contrary to it selfe as this What is waxing and waning What is increasing and vading if this be none And what Christian eares can abide this saying that suche trifels as they be of them selues and such filthy whooredomes as they be now made of should condempne vs if we shoulde speake against them He paide not the price of soules that so easily sendeth them away from ther maister vnto Satan The casting awaie such scourings of the Romish vncleannes shall neuer doo it nay it is a witnesse vnto our consciences that we be the children of the highest Hardyng ¶ Concerning the rest of your aunswere wherin you treat certaine coÌ„mon places vtter much spite against the Pope c. against transubstanciatioÌ„ against inuocation of saints against aultars c. Prayer for the dead you condemne and shew no cause why c. I thinke good to let passe and contemne it Dering Now sure well done maister Harding where you can not reade skip ouer but take good héede least in your lâ—aping you hurt your selfe and do your cause no good If men shal vnderstand that you wil not alow the authority of Pope Nicolaus Pope Leo Pope Boniface Pope Sergius and the common Law all which Maister Iuell alledgeth you shall make the Pope that now is beshrew you and so peraduenture you shal get a curse and you shall make all good Christian people mistrust you Of transubstantiation aultars we will say more héereafter Prayer to saintes is now nighe forgotten You aske in the margine why we doe not aunswere the booke of Purgatory In déede now you come to the point This article is very auncient about .1900 yeares a gone Plato spake of it in his booke de animo where this your cleansing place hath his first ground foundation And therfore for our good and sufficient discharge in this matter I aunswere out of the same booke of Plato We meddle not with your booke of purgatory bicause we feare not our shadowes You know that y e yoÌ„g nouice in Philosophy feared not y e three hedded Cerberus the roring of Cocytus the rolling stone of Sisyphus and how shoulde we feare your painted paper walles of Purgatory Christ is our Sauiour God engraffe in vs a desire to be with him and for my part sith purgatory hath no graunt in Gods woord I recken it scarce woorthy aunswer Yet bicause you ar importune somwhat shall be sayd hereafter Hardyng ¶ You haue piked out or set some a worke to pike out for you all the tearmes and woordes vsed in my booke which a good man may iustly bestow in rebuke of vice vpon euill men c. Dering Héere Maister Harding is fallen into a very shamelesse veine of writing and thinketh good at large to excuse his own modesty The woordes in which he séeketh after it are these Thersites Goliath Heathens Publicanes sacramentaries Lucians scoffers rashe presumtuous ignorant péeuishe and
truth for falsehood heapeth vp scriptures against himselfe Ieremie calleth the people of Iudah Stahens Ezechiel the false Prophetes Foxes and so doth Christ call Herode But who were these fed horses of Iudah those sayth God by the Prophet whose children haue forsaken me and sworne by them that are no Gods that when they were fed full yet they committed adultery And who sweareth by them that are no Gods eyther we or they Haue not they taught vs to sweare by the saints of God by his holy Euangelies and by their wicked Masses And trow they this is not swearing by false Gods Of whom speaketh Ezechiel that they ar like Foxes in the wasty places euen those that Prophecied of their owne spirite and lying diuinations and whether doe prophecie of their owne spirite we that search onely the woorde of God or they that preach forth their owne traditions Who hath séene lying diuinations we that reiect all their dreames and visions or they that doe staye their whole Religion on them Though all the reuelations which are written in maner infinite dyd not shewe it Maister Hardings owne aunswere would sufficientlye proue it This is a special note that their Pope is Antichrist oft spoken of in the scripture and bewayled of S. Paule to Timothe in his earnest exhortation to continuall preaching wher he saith the tyme will come when they will not suffer holsome Doctrine but hauing their eares itching shall harken after their owne lustes get them a heape of teachers and shall turne their eares from the truth and shall be giuen vnto fables Thus while Maister Harding doth mayntayne his modesty he hath ouerthrowne his religion and in heate of spirit as he goeth forth in euil he doth breath out euill termes in suche sorte that chaste eares maye not well abyde them He calleth mariage an vnchaste life wyues strumpets and an vndefiled bed a lecherous neying O Lord are not thy eyes vpon the truth Thou hast stricken thē but they haue not sorrowed thou hast consumed them but they haue refused to receiue correction they haue made their faces harder than a stone and haue refused to returne But they knowe not the waye of the Lorde nor the iudgement of their God I will aunswere no otherwise but with S. Paules woordes that their doctrine is a doctrine of Diuels He telleth vs of spitefull guyles and wyles with which we intrappe men of our lewdnesse and our false dealing that maketh them to smart and yet he saith he will not chasten vs with reuiling woordes How full of gall is Maister Harding that these woords do not yet seme bitter What shall we looke for when his spiryt is moued that thus quyetly breathed out such reproches But so his tonge maye runne or his pen be walking it séemeth he careth not what he write or speake Why doth he not tell vs what he meaneth Is it like he knoweth any harme by vs and will not tell it Such silence would require a mylder stomacke Now after a litle talke to no purpose when he hath swet long in bringing much for his modesty yet can prooue none he thinketh good pollicy to make other compartners of his impudency and after mature deliberation with a fewe prety metaphores thinketh it good to bestow his talke vppon Maister Iuell and so with a bolde asseueration beginnes his purpose Harding ¶ Verily of all the wryters that I haue read I neuer found any that vseth the lothsome manner of scoffing and mocking so much as you doe When reason faileth a scoffe is at hand When an argument presseth a mock serueth for aunswere When the matter goeth playne on the contrarie side then Hickescorner be stirreth him and with ieasting pulleth away the minde of the reader to an other light thought that so all might be laughed out and the chiefe point let passe Dering Now verily Maister Harding you are in a mad case You maye be Simo for your lucke your harmes come so in order your arguments are so slender your witnesses so vndiscrete your aduersarie so strong that when you haue done what you can at last you kéepe the shame your selfe You told vs before of blasphemyes against the dreadfull mysteries of strikinge at all men not sparing the reuerence of his mother no not the maiesty of the holy Ghost and is this bloody tragidy ended with a poore scoffe Hath Maister Iuell so tempered his Reply that Maister Harding can finde in it no one reuyling woorde Why then M. Harding call togither your friendes and let manye handes make the burden lighter Unlesse your reuylings be meruailous vncomelye you shall haue them of your own syde that will beare them vp stoutly and M. Iuell is content with a litle iesting in tyme conuenient But that either scoffe or mocke or your Hickescorner doeth stande in steade of an aunswere this is an other of your railings and you must be content to beare it your selfe If you will haue vs beleue it why shewe you not the place Must the enimies wordes stande for good accusation But who can bring proofe of a shamelesse lye Hardyng ¶ In olde tyme Philosophers had names giuen them of some speciall property and disposition of mynde Socrates was named the dissembler Plato the Diuine Heraclitus the Darke Carneades the Subtile Chrysippus the sharpe Theophrasius the sweete Diogines the Doggish Certainely had you bene aliue at those dayes you had bene named Iewell the Scoffer Yet for your learning I wene you had not ben annumbred among Philosophers Dering Here to helpe to discredite his aduersary he vttereth a litle cunning in old Philosophers names and yet in the ende is very lothe to account him among them This is the craking M. Harding told vs of to set out his learning after so vnlearned fashion But this is no faulte in the rethorike of Louain The Tarentynes and the Sicilians to whome he writeth shal accept it for good eloquence But let the cunning goo let vs examine the cause he doth measure his forefathers by his own affection What if we shoulde deale in like maner with him and reason thus Ptoleme for his foolishe pyping was called a minstrell Ochus Artaxerxes for his cruelty Machera Tarquinius for his vnciuill behauiour the prowde Deniochares for his bolde prating 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Aristogiton for his impudency a Dog Antiochus for his great promysing and litle perfourming Dosas Trebonius for speaking ill of his betters Asper And had M. Harding of our dayes bene then lyuing he should haue bene called for his little modestye Harding the rayler Certaynly though he might be one of those for his behauiour yet I will not bestow of him anye particuler name I leaue him to the iudgement of others Now once againe for his full discharge he sheweth out his generall acquitance and sayth that in all his aunswer he hath vsed great modestie Much like to Ptolome one of the Kings of Egypt that when he had killed his Father and hys Moother
and hys brother yet he would néedes be called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 So M. Harding wyll say néedes he is modest but his woord is no warrant Concerning M. Iuell whether his greatest grace be in scoffing I maruaile that he now doth aske the question Doth not M. Rastall his owne dearlyng confesse he hath a rare gift in writing Though his aucthoritie be otherwise very light yet against M. Harding it is very weightie And why will not M. Harding confesse as much Is he not as well learned as M. Rastall Yes sure but malitia mutauit intellectum malice hath chaunged his vnderstanding Hardyng ¶ If ye seeke to be reuenged on me for that I haue bene so bold as to aunswere your vaine Chalenge and by this Reioynder to confute part of your colourable Reply either hold your peace or speake so as you be not fouÌ„d a lyer if you can For truely by your euill speaking of me you shal but encrease the heape of my felicitie c. Dering Maister Harding would haue the world to thinke we are offended with his writing And in déede we are so and take it as a scourge of God to kéepe vs in humilitie and a manacing against our sinful liues that as oft as we se their bookes we should repent vs of the idolatries wherein we haue beene drowned But he in his impiety runneth desperatly forward and appealeth vnto Gods iudgement with such securitye as appeareth as Flauinius at Thrasimenus or Varro at Cannae went to méete with Hannibal Well may I vse this similitude sith all his doings are nothing else but gentillitie Maister Harding doth accuse vs of euill speaking before we offeÌ„d him Where he saith he is sure he standeth vpon a sure grouÌ„d let him take héede he be not wise in his own conceit Not euery one that saith Lord Lord shall enter into the kingdome of heauen but he that doth the will of God They are not all true worshippers that go vp to Ierusalem but suche onely as woorship in spirite and veritie The Iewes with as great a confidence sayde they had one Father which was God but Christ aunswered they were of their father the Deuil Saint Paule speaketh of the wicked that gloried so of God but hée sayth by such meanes the true God is dishonored The Scribes and the Pharises bragged muche of Moyses but Christ sayd the same Moyses should be their accuser All Israel dyd euer boast they were the children but yet onely in Isaac shal the séede be called Euen so these braggings of Christ séeing he followeth not his Testament shall be his owne confusion But by like he feared this that here I do aunswere and therfore with a vaine occupacion he thought best to preuent it and make a false clayme him selfe to that sayinge of Christ. And to proue it doth alleadge that weary argument of their Romish church which bicause it is so oft alleadged it shall not be amisse to speake somwhat of it to way a litle the difference of the two Churches The Churche of Christ is not bounde to any mans traditions it is not tyed to any certaine place the somâ— hath made vs frée and therfore we are frée in déede Neither in Ierusalem nor in this hill the true worshippers doo worship but in spirite and veritye But the Church of Rome doeth hang vpon olde rotten postes they obserue monethes and dayes that they maye be made frée they runne into cloisters and monckery for to worship and serue God The Church of Christ is not inclosed in any certain cuntry the Apostels are gone into al the world to preach the Gospell who soeuer doth beleue and is baptised shalbe saued But the church of Rome doth condemne them that goe one foote from hir she pronounceth them accursed that wil not drinke of hir adulteries and without hir she saith ther is no helth The Church of Christ wil not heare a strangers voice she will not beleue an angell from heauen that shall preach any other doctrine then Christ hath deliuered the scripture is the rule of hir whole religioÌ„ The church of Rome doth harken after vnwritten verities she giueth credit vnto dreames and visions she saith the Scriptures maye be drawen into diuers senses and will not allowe them but after hir fansied interpretations The church of Christ is buylt vpon the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets Christ him selfe being the heade corner stone she doth receiue with méekenesse the woorde that is ingraffed in hir and doth confesse that it can saue our soules The church of Rome is buylt vppon mens deuises and for insufficiencye of the word adioyneth pilgrimages and pardons sacrifices for quick and dead Masses and purgatoryes Inuocation of Saints worshipping of Images and a thousand such trumperies and will not confesse that all is written which is necessary to saluation The Church of Christ doth acknowledge that by Christ alone she is saued by Christ alone she is deliuered from hir vaine conuersation and from the bondage of sin not by the woorks of righteousnes which she had done but according to his mercy which hath saued hir But the church of Rome maketh merits of hir own hath inuented worâ—es of supererogation hath great confidence in Bulles Reliques Indulgences and salutations of the Pope The church of Christ is the communion of Saints the society and the felowship of these that walke in righteousnes But the church of Rome is a den of théeues her hye Priestes are sorcerers coniurers necromancers murderers vnchast adulterers Sodomits church robbers and such like infamous creatures as is euident by Platina Beâ—no and all other that haue written their liues The church of Christ doth vse the keies aright as she hath receiued them she pardoneth the penitent bindeth vp the sinnes of the disobedient and as she frely hath receiued so frelye she bestoweth them The church of Rome doth binde and lose at aduentures sendeth pardons to persons that she neuer sawe and bicause she hath not receiued fréely she selleth vnreasonable deare and hath made men paye for their sinnes an hundred thousand ounces of golde To conclude the church of Christ is the members of Christ the bodye of one head of which heade she hath receiued hir saluatioÌ„ bicause he hath purchased hir with his blood The church of Rome is the body of Antichrist the members of an Idolatrous harlot that hath gone a whorehunting after diuers louers Therfore the church of Rome is not the church of Christ. And as this church of Rome is in déede the synagogue of the Deuill so she hath not so much as the marks of Christes congregation The right vse of the sacraments which is the badge of Christs church and the reading of scriptures wherby hir steppes are lightened are as farre out of Peters church in Rome now as in the tyme of paganisme ther were out of the capitol as it shall appeare vpon further discussion First if they haue the
priest will And where their Masse booke biddeth that the priest breake the host in thrée péeces and holde two péeces in his left hand and one in his right the misterie of that deuice is this that one péece I trowe that in the right hande be for them in heauen an other for the liuing the thirde for them in purgatory I graunt this is but a foolishe deuice to fancie any sacrifice for those in heauen yet so it is so they teach Whether maister Harding say Masse as he is commaunded or no that no man I trow knoweth but himselfe his breach of order may be no good proufe of an vntruth The B. of Saris. His second reason is this it is a feast therefore it is common and so he salueth one errour with another Harding The .9 vntruth It is no errour to say it is a feast Dering Maister Hardings worde is no very good warrant therefore it shall not be amisse to sée his reason As a dinner may be a good dinner sayth the Reioinder though the gestes doe not come so this may be a feast though it be not eaten Note good people this is an argument a simili and that you should note it the better Maister Harding hath caused it to be printed in the margine This argument by lyke is verye plausible among them With such an other did mayster Bonner once proue transubstanciation but bicause whatsoeuer that wise man speaketh is not streight way reason I would gladly know of maister Harding this one thing whether that be a good dinner when neyther the gestes come nor yet any good meate is prepared All men knowe that such a banket they make of their Masse There is nothing at all prepaâ—ed but for the priest alone These weake vntruthes would haue well borne some stronger reason The B. of Saris. What if his wil be to work sorcery as it is reported of pope Hildibrand Harding The .10 vntruth This is reported by no true vvryter The B. of Saris. Or what if his will be to poyson some bodye as Henrie the Emperor was poysoned in the Communion bread Pope Victor in the Chalice Harding The .11 and .12 vntruth They dyed othervvise Dering Well may this Reioinder of M. Hardings be called a booke of distinctions this great number of vntruthes .225 wranglings For neyther without a distinction can he defende one iote of his double Religion nor without wrangling argue one vntruth It is reported sayth mayster Iuell of Pope Hildibrand that he was a sorcerer of Henry the Emperour and Pope Victor â—hat they were poisoned in the CoÌ„munion Here commeth our late vntruth maker of Louein M. D. Har. where as nothing is affirmed in his maner of multiplicatioÌ„ he saith there are thrée vntruthes The first of Hildibrand the seconde of Henry the thirde of Victor Concerning the truth of these histories pardon me good reader though I dare say nothing I can not mend that which M. Iuell hath written Reade the defence of the Apologie God for his mercy sake preserue that good Bishop to the accomplishing of many other such labours As touching our present purpose No man I trow but Maister Harding would haue noted any vntruth Maister Iuell doth onely say these histories are reported and so they be as thou thy selfe must néedes confesse What if they be false yet it is the errour of the historie no vntruth in mayster Iuell What if no man defendeth Papistrie but enimies of Gods worde and true religion yet we may say that Papistrie is defended We may say of Gargantua that it is reported Of the Legend of lyes that they are written Of Basils priuate Masse that Amphilochius telleth it and yet is there no controuersie but these are all lyes Then what if it were not y e Pope Gregory were a coniurer yet it is reported yea and thou thy selfe good Christian reader vpon the sight of mayster Iuels booke shall confesse it was so But here I must require of thée a little to consider the vnegall dealing of these english Louanists Maister Harding in his aunswere speaking of Abdias sayth that he sawe Christ in the flesh that bicause it is altogither false maister Iuell noteth it for one vntruth Now commeth maister Stapleton and for the returne of this vntruth he sayth If it be vntrue the fault is in the author that so affirmeth and not in maister Harding And yet maister Harding speaketh this affirmatiuely as though he would auouch it And shall lying Abdias be a sufficient ground for maister Harding to say this is true And shall not so many good wryters be a warrant for maister Iuell to say this is reported Sure maister Hardings owne friends must nedes wish that eyther this had béene vnquoted by himselfe or that other vndefended by maister Stapleton The B. of Saris. Or what if his will be to worke fayned miracles as Lira sayth many are wrought in the open Church to mocke the people Harding The .13 vntruth Lira sayth it not The .14 vntruth He saith not to mocke the people Dering We had euen now thrée vntruthes in one sentence if these were to many in token of some moderation here is one abated and yet such successe hath this vntruthmaker in his collections that euen these two can not stande with his honestie This is maister Iuels allegation Lira sayth many miracles are wrought in the open Church to mocke the people Of these wordes thus doeth Maister Harding gather two vntruthes The first Lira sayth it not The second he sayth not to mocke the people Here would I faine learne of Maister Harding in the first vntruth Lira sayth it not what he meaneth by the worde â–ª it if he doe meane the whole sentence why doth he repeate this peece to mocke the people and so maketh an other vntruth if he meane Lira hath all but this why doth he note the residue for an vntruth If he meane that Lira neuer sayth this nor the other part why doth he not marke mo vntruthes The first as it is one generall Lira sayth it not The other deducted perticularly out of euery word as he saith not there are many He sayth not there are many miracles he saith not they are wrought he sayth not in the open church He saith not to mock so this last he saith not to mock the people This would well haue furthered M. H. number to haue had .vii. in stéed of two sure the sentence hath no priuiledge but that in euery part it may as wel be broken off as in this one But sith it is so M. H. durst not note to many let vs examine these two how good ground they stand on â–ª Lira saith Maister Harding sayth it not He sayth not to mocke the people In these vntruthes my labour shall not be necessary Lira himselfe must be mayster Iuels discharge Reade then the place thus he wryteth Similiter sit in ecclesia maxima deceptio populi in miraculis fictis