Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
religion_n	church_n	faith_n	hold_v	3,740	5	6.0925	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A07486	Luthers predecessours: or an ansvvere to the question of the Papists: Where was your church before Luther?	Bedford, Thomas, d. 1653.	1624 (1624)	STC 1787; ESTC S114052	16,219	32

Luthers Predecessours OR AN ANSWERE TO THE QVESTION OF THE PAPISTS Where was your Church before Luther LONDON Imprinted by Felix Kingston for George Winder and are to be sold at his shop in Saint Dunstons Church-yard in Fleet-street 1624. Luthers Predecessours OR AN ANSWERE TO THE QVESTION OF THE PAPISTS Where was your Church before Luther AMongst all those Creatures that yeeld an vnpleasant sound none are so clamorous and obstreperous as Frogs and Locusts these by land the other by water saluting each passenger with an vnwelcome note the iust picture and resemblance of popish Priests and Iesuites which certainly are the Frogs which S. Iohn saw to come forth of the mouth of the Beast and the false prophet whose croaking and vnwelcome noise doth nor a little trouble each Christian passenger Amongst other harsh notes of theirs this question hath his place for what musicke can there be in it Where was your Church before Luther To what end is this question mooued except it bee to trouble men for what if wee could not prooue that our English Church was before Luther must it needs follow that the doctrine we hold is vntrue or shall the doctrine of the Church of Rome be euer the truer because of onely antiquity what if Arrius or Nestorius could haue deduced the Patrons of their opinions from Adam should they for that haue beene orthodoxall No certainly and why not Because the Church must be prooued and allowed by the doctrine and not the doctrine authorized by the Church which the Papists a people wise in their generation well knowing haue ouerturned the course of nature will haue the Scripture and all doctrine to hang vpon the determination of the Church and vpon this ground it is that they proceede to such questions as these hoping that if they haue once amazed any one with the name of the Church and shall haue driuen him from title and interest to the Church before Luthers time they shall easily make him call in question the whole frame of doctrine of the reformed Churches Vnto this question answers haue beene made arguments alledged to prooue that the doctrine of the Protestant Religion hath had his being in the world long before the dayes of Luther That argument of the worthy Doctor Featly cannot by any Iesuite be answered who concludeth that the doctrine of the reformed Churches must needs haue Professours in all ages because it is eternall for eternity must needes haue a perpetuall duration without interruption The argument of Induction is that which better pleaseth the Iesuite but by no meanes will hee suffer our enumeration to begin with Christ and his Apostles for then what shifts what cauils and tergiuisations they haue may easily appeare by the proceedings of the late conference betwixt D. White and D. Featly against Fisher and Sweet Wherefore to answer a foole according to his folly I haue indeuoured to draw the argument of Induction à posteriore beginning with the ages next before Luther the which is not so hard a taske as commonly is imagined But first we must agree vpon the termes of this question Where was your Church c where wee must first know what is meant by your and what by Church For if by your they meane the Church of our Nation that is Where was your English reformed Church Then are we to answer out of our own Chronicles and so shall we be able to name the fewer in all ages and in some ages perhaps none not that there were none but that the Euidences are lost But I suppose they doe not by the termes your Church vnderstand a Nationall or Prouinciall Church because then must they prooue that the Church of the New Testament is tyed to a place so that where it once hath beene planted there it should continue which is contrary to all experience besides had they meant so they would haue rather named Tyndall or some other Englishman then Luther a German By your Church they meane then those men in what Country soeuer which confessed and maintained the same doctrine Then for the meaning of the word Church wee demand whether they mean a visible constituted Church which might haue beene knowne by the distinction and succession of Bishops Elders Deacons c. or whether they meane generally any company of men holding and professing those truths and doctrines which we maintaine For if they will tye vs to the former I say still the taske is vnequall because the Records are wanting but especially because they cannot prooue that the Church must alwayes bee in such manner visible for in Elias time there were 7000. vnknowne to him much more to Ahab In the time of Christs passion some of the Papists say that the Church rested onely in Marie and all doe vsually compare the Church to the Moone which is alwayes lasting but not alwaies in the Full. But if they meant the latter namely a company of men professing the same faith which wee doe then wee further propound to them two questions The first is Whether the persecuting of any defacto doe hinder the iustifying of them deiure which they must needs denie except they will beg the question and then though we finde such and such in former ages to haue beene condemned yet if deiure they ought not and that we can iustifie their Tenents we shall proceed more easily in challenging them for ours But if they would haue vs to name men vncondemned liuing in peace free from persecution they must then prooue that persecution doth take away the priuiledge of the Church that those men shall not be of the Church because persecuted which if they goe about they must wipe out the whole infancy of the Church for the first 300. yeeres but they shall neuer be able to prooue it for the woman in Reuel 12. was constrained to flie into the wildernesse for feare of the Dragon The second is What those doctrines are which we must prooue those whom wee seeke for to haue held for if they meane the fundamentall poynts of Religion contained in the Creed for matters of faith in the Decalogue for matter of practice and in the Lords Praier for matter of praier they themselues shall be our spokesmen for they and wee hold these in common but if they meane those points of doctrine wherein we dissent from the present Church of Rome which they must do if they vnderstand themselues in the question then we further desire to know whether they will not allow vs to challenge those for ours who held the most and mainest for which they suffered as well as wee although perhaps in some other points they dissented from vs in our generall Tenents for if they will allow vs onely such who both in doctrine and discipline did in all points agree they are too narrow for any dispute besides they must prooue that there hath beene alwaies such an vnity of words and doctrine that in no point the professours haue or may dissent

and yet remaine members of the Church a taske that will neuer fadge well especially with them in their mutinous multitude and rabble of religious orders yea let them then call to minde how weakely Harding hath defended his answere of Bishop Iewels challenge or let them answere Perkins Problem and prooue where their Church was before the Trent Councell for it will asmuch trouble them to name a company of men in all points professing the Trent faith as vs to finde a company of men professing in all points the doctrine of the reformed religion But if they giue vs liberty to make challenge to them who in the most and greatest points haue agreed with vs which is but reasonable then in the next place we desire to grow to a point and agree vpon the maine points of difference betwixt vs and them All which in generall do concerne either the offices of Christ or the fruites of his office the which by their doctrine are ouerthrowne For first the kingly office of Christ is ouerthrowne by the supremacy of the Pope which draweth with it the pride of the Clergy and exaltation of them aboue the temporall power Secondly the Propheticall office is ouerthrowne by their silencing the Scripture and by giuing such liberty to the Church yea and to the Pope to frame articles of faith Thirdly the Priestly office is ouerthrowne in the worke of satisfaction by Merits Indulgences Purgatory c. In the worke of Application by their abuses thrust into the Sacraments especially Transubstantiation reall Presence Exorcismes c. by their false sacraments which were neuer appointed by Christ as meanes of application In the worke of Intercession by Angels Saints Images whom they haue made their mediators of intercession Lastly the fruites of Christs office redounding to vs by the mediation of Christ is our Iustification before God which doctrine they haue laboured to ouerthrow Now to the point this our taske wee are to shew forth the names of such men who haue consented with vs in the opposition of the Supremacy exemption of the Clergy from Ciuill iurisdiction in the authority of the Scriptures and in the communicating of them to the people in condemning Merits Indulgences Purgatory Transubstantiation reall presence intercession of Saints and Angels Image worship Pilgrimage in the doctrine of our free iustification by faith and such other points which are controuerted betwixt vs and the Church of Rome And this wee will doe first in the instance of our owne Countrimen and then proceed to others Know all men therefore by these presents that about the yeere of Grace 1370. in the time of Edward the third King of England at what time all the world was in most desperate and vile estate and that lamentable ignorance and darkenesse of Gods truth had ouer-shaddowed the Church most Iohn Wickliffe who almost 200. yeeres before Luther by the especiall prouidence of God was raised vp here in England to detect more fully and amply the poison of the Popes doctrine and to purge Religion from those dregs and filthinesse with which it was defiled a Professor of Diuinitie was he in Oxford a man of note in his time and of famous memory in the ages following For after hee had begunne to publish some conclusions touching the Doctrine of the Sacrament and other abuses of the Church which boyle and sore could not be touched without the great paine and griefe of the world hee was much infested with the Monkes and Friers who like Hornets did assaile the good man on euery side After them the Priests tooke the matter in hand and Symon Sudbery Archbishop depriued him of his Benefice in Oxford yet by the friendly and fauourable assistance of Iohn of Gaunt Duke of Lancaster and Henry Percy Earle Marshal being also befriēded of the King who had heretofore made vse of him in an Ambassage he bore out the malice of the Friers and of the Archbishop all the dayes of Edward the third and of Pope Vrban who being busied in suppressing his aduersary Clement the seuenth could not spare any time to deale with Wickliffe and so it came to passe by Gods prouidence that the truth began to take some place and roote in mens hearts Afterward in the beginning of Richard the 2. and of Gregory the eleuenth his aduersaries espied their time and incensed the Pope against him who sendeth foorth his Bull to the Vniuersity of Oxford and an Epistle to the King with diuers Letters to the Bishops dated all 11. kal. of Iune in the seuenth yeere of his Pontificality 1378. By which it appeareth that Wicklife was a man of note and that these things were not done in a corner but that his preaching had taken effect So that the Bishops had neede of the Popes owne helpe to suppresse him and his abettors the which although they attempted yet could they not bring to passe his commendation testified by the Vniuersitie is this That hee behaued himselfe as a stout Champion of the Faith neither was hee conuict of any heresie and God forbid saith the Testimoniall that our Prelates should haue condemned a man of such honesty of heresie His bookes were many and spred abroade not only throughout England but also by occasion of Queene Anne wife to Richard the second sister to Wenceslaus King of Bohemia carried into Bohemia whence Iohn Husse learned the beginnings of his knowledge Thus was this man a most worthy instrument in the Church of God like a bright Starre shining farre and neere Now for his conclusions which are recorded for his they are many gathered by his aduersaries and therefore if in all points they sound not so well as we could desire yet certainely wee may beleeue that they were not so bad as some of them are deliuered Wee finde that in a Conuention at London 1382. May 17. they proceeded to the condemnation of his articles some as hereticall some as erroneous The which also were afterward presented to the Councell of Constance with diuers others to the number of 45. in all and by the same Councell condemned the which for breuitie sake I haue collected vnto their seuerall heads 1. Touching the supremacy hee held that it is not necessary to saluation to beleeue that the Church of Rome is supreme head of all Churches That the Church of Rome is the Synagogue of Satan Neither is the Pope immediately the Vicar of Christ nor his Apostles and that the Excommunication of the Pope and his Prelates is not to bee feared because it is the censure of Antichrist 2. Concerning religious orders which are the tayle of Antichrist he taught That those holy men as Francis Dominick Benedict c which haue instituted priuate religions whatsoeuer they be in so doing haue grieuously offended And such who do found Monasteries doe offend and sin so all such who enter into such religions are thereby vnable to keepe the commandements of God as also to attaine to the Kingdome of heauen except they