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B12207 The copy of a letter sent from an English gentleman, lately become a Catholike beyond the seas, to his Protestant friend in England in answere to some points, wherin his opinion was required, concerning the present busines of the Palatinate, & marriage with Spayne : and also declaring his reasons for the change of his religion. Crynes, N. 1622 (1622) STC 5742.7; ESTC S1070 15,353 106

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primitiue Church of Christ This vpon their meere saying so I confidently belieued without euer making doubt thereof or further enquiry for any proofe But coming into Germany whither my iourney was as you know intended for the seruice of the Prince Palatine who we then called King of Bohemia and there beholding the Lutheran preachers to stand swaggering in their pulpits with their mouthes as full of Scripture as any of our Pulpit-mens in England might possibly be and there to see them so to contemne scorne deride our English preachers pretension of restoring Apostolicall religion as the most ridiculous iest in the world I stood not a little amazed at the matter Trauailing from Germany into Bohemia there did I heare the Hussite-preachers as I had heard the Lutherans before condemne our doctrine of England laugh and scof at our preachers pretension of primitiue truth as a iest only to make sport withall not conteyning nor carying therewith so much as any shew of truth which to my consideration proued no iest at all Lighting after this in the company of Anabaptists with which albeit England be little acquainted yet in these parts they will also be some body as wel as the rest seing they hold themselues to be as flush in Scripture as the proudest of their Competitors they protested by yea and by nay that our Protestant Religion of England was not consonant but contrary to the truth of the Ghospell of the Lord. What might I thinke of the great boast which our Pulpit-masters in England make of the light of their Ghospell who seeme where they are there alone to be the only men at it in the world whē heere in Germany I heard the Lutheran Preachers whose Patriarke Martin Luther we in England so much cōmend extoll the light of their owne Ghospell aboue the brightnes of the Sunne make our Ghospell of England more dimmer then a lanterne How might I maruell thinke you when I heard the Hussite-preachers so much to scorne our Gods Word of England as if it were but the Word of Robin-hood And what might I imagine when the Anabaptistes that speake nothing but Scripture durst challenge all our Rabins at no other weapon but at the only Word will alwayes be ready to continue the combat as long as they haue fingers to turne ouer leaues in the Bible But what labyrinth may you thinke me to haue lighted in why in my trauails I hapned into an Inne where I had about myne eares all these at once where I found my selfe enuyroned about with different Wordes of God different Lights of the Ghospel where when I went about to defend our Ghospell of England I had Bibles so fast drawne out vpon me that I knew not which way to turne me but was fayne to stand as an Owle among other birdes and with much impatience patiently heare our Gods Word of England made the veriest hotch-potch Olla-podrida of the world They became so pleasant and sportfull with me as to aske me whether God had banished his truest Religion into an I le and hembd it about with the sea to the end it shold dwell no where but there intending thereby that our Religion of England both in fayth and in forme was different from all other Religions that now are extant which when I would haue gaynsayed they strayghtwayes came vpon me with Temporall and Feminine Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction and with pageants of little Popes as though they had their instructions from Puritans and Brownists Lord how hartily did I wish that but some one of our great Pulpit-thunderers had byn heere that can talke so brauely in England before those that belieue in him to haue seene how these different kinds of Scripture-followes would haue Bible-bastonaded him and put him downe like a poore Snake for verily there did neuer squirrell skip more nimbly from one bowgh vnto another in a tree then do these fellowes from one text to another in the old and new Testament Of all which when I had well considered there was nothing wherat I more stood amazed then at my owne ignorance whylst I was in England because I did not apprehend any opposition to any purpose to be made against the Religion there allowed then that which was made agaynst it by those of the Church of Rome and because our Preachers could smoothly dissemble these other opposites and but little meddle with them crying Crucifige lowdest of all agaynst those of the Church of Rome But finding now a farre other matter to wit these seuerall sects so full of Scripture as none in England could be fuller and these so contemptibly to despise scorne hold most ridiculous our English protestant religion as a very mock-religion and in most serious asseueration of their soules to declare it to be the damnation of al their soules that follow it what might I now imagine Finding them also to haue asmuch sense and vnderstanding as great acquaintance as farre to haue trauayled in the Word and as ready in their language to speake defend their causes as any in Englād how Text-fast soeuer he be is able to do and in fine to protest with all zeale vehemency of spirit his resolution for the offering of his body to the torments and paynes of death and his soule to the sentence of saluation or damnation thereon what could I find any of our professing people in England to say more and what reason had I now to reiect these not to heare them speake as well as I had I heard our Pulpit-people in England vnlesse it should only haue byn for their not being Englishmen which were too poore a reason to be yielded vnto All this also considered what I pray you might I thinke whether I were now in a perplexity or no I leaue your selfe to iudge what reason did there now remayne to oblige me vnto our English Protestant Religion other then because it was the Religion of England and whether the following therof because it so was could be a sufficient warrant for the proofe of it to be true Religion and consequently for the saluation of my soule lying dying therin Whylst I stood in this amazement hearing the Hussites most resolute in mayntayning the Reall Presence of Christ in the Sacrament and the Lutherans also the former by transubstantiation the later by consubstantiation yet eyther affirming no signe but the very same body that was borne of the Blessed Virgin Mary to be there I was by this meanes brought to looke backe vnto the Christian world of former ages and to thinke with my selfe that if so be the ancient Church of Rome from which also these new congregations had deryued their Christianity was in processe of tyme become alienated from her first purity by hauing as these pretend nourished and entertayned many corruptions and that God would vouchsafe to benefit the world with a restauration or reformation of Religion according to her first purity that it was not then like
the Match with Spayne wherof there is now great speech and good apparence we must resolue that it resteth most in the disposition of God in whose power is the disposing of all thinges For myne owne part I dare confidently say that I do not think there can a more Great or Honorable Match be found for that Prince in all the world And let passionate men say what they will certayne it is that the continuance of peace and friendship with Spayne is as commodious to England as the keeping of peace friendship with any Countrey whatsoeuer And this the prudent King Henry the seauenth his Maiestyes Ancestour well saw when he matched his sonne and the heyre of his crowne Prince Arthur with the Lady Catharine the Kinges daughter of Castilia when there was no such greatnes added vnto it as now there is And the sayd Prince fayling for he was sickly when he marryed dyed before the mariage in all respects was consumate the sayd King Henry neglected not to procure by dispensation the match to be made with his Son Henry who now was become his heyre insteed of the other and reygned after him by the name of King Henry the eight and albeit this King did put this his marryed wife and most vertuous Queene from him after he had had her about twenty and two yeares for the loue of Anne Bullen yet was it without any iust cause and his match with Anne Bullen proued not honorable vnto him for he caused her to be beheaded for her abhominable adultery of the truth whereof if any doubt there is among other testimonies yet a letter extant of the Lord Cromwells wherein so much is signifyed I know the Puritans and Puritanly affected haue no liking of this new match with Spayne and that their friendes the Hollanders can in no case endure to heare of it the one in regard of reason of State the other in regard of a long wished Puritanicall discipline according to the Holland Reformation Concerning the Hollanders who can thinke his Maiesty obliged to forbeare this match for the giuing of them satisfaction whose greatest desyre indeed is that the Prince should not match at all for their more assurance of bringing the House of Nassow to Domineere in England seeing the Prince Palatine by his mothers side being of that House and coming in the right of his wife to that Crowne England should then become Hollandes buckler against Spayne then might come with this Prince into that Realme I know not how many land-lesse Lords of the same House and he bringing also with him as a Puritan Messias their long desired Reformation how fit would Bishops liuings fall for his Kinsmen and perhapps they would be aswel also contented to beare the names of Bishops or Administrators as the Lutheran Lord that hath gotten by his demeanour the Reuerend tytle of the mad Bishop of Halberstat and as other the like doe in Germany that gallantly ryde vpon their great horses in their apparell of all colours of the raynbow with their rapiers by their sides and huge feathers in their hattes and looke as like Bishops as Owles looke like Apes which goodly Ecclesiasticall state and dignity English Puritans for Reformation sake would perhaps be very well content to commend as well as their Puritan brethren in Scotland haue liked and alowed such like state and tytle to Lords and Gentlemen there and especially when they medled with no more but only with the displaced Bishops liuings and leaue all businesses belonging to the Word wholy in the handes of Puritan-Ministers and Consistory discipline But as the Hollanders and their correspondent-brethren our English Puritanes doe for their seuerall designes desire nothing more then the not going forward of this Match and in very deed no match at all for this Prince as before I haue noted so to the contrary all true and louing subiects to his Maiesty and bearers of dutifull affection to the Prince and countrey ought to desire it and to desire that vpon the accomplishment thereof issue may speedily follow because heerin consisteth both his Maiestyes and the Princes safety And this is all I can say vnto you fore present concerning the match with Spayne As concerning your obiection about difference of Religion The Lady being as you say a Papist and to haue the free exercise of her Religion and consequently the vse of her Chappell and Masse in the Court which you say wil be an ey-sore to the professours of the Ghospell c. Vpon these your wordes I shal be occasioned to open my selfe further then els I should haue byn willing to doe because of giuing you some vnexpected disgust when in making answere vnto your speeches I shal be brought if I must deale directly and playnly as with a friend to declare this eye-sore to be but a miscōceaued sorenes for heerupon I know you will straightways censure me to be turned Papist and condemne me of leuity for being so soone swarued from the light of your Ghospell to the liking of a Religion so generally misliked in England wherby I may stand in danger to loose your loue which very loath I would be to do considering how sincere I haue alwayes found it and what reciprocall correspondence I haue vsed for conseruation of the same The esteeme wherof being indeed the greatest cause that moueth me to be so carefull to endeauour so to excuse myselfe that you may think me the lesse blame-worthy and consequently the lesse breach may be made in your good affection towardes me seeing in myne towardes you notwithstanding difference of iudgmēt in Religion-matters there is none at all for I can see no reason to the contrary but that men may beare themselues in amity and Ciuill cōuersation with one another though the one be inclyned in conscience to serue God in a different manner from the other seeing euery man oweth his honest behauiour vnto men Well then good Sir vpon hope of reseruation of your loue that when you shall haue vnderstood how thinges haue passed you will consider before you condemne me of leuity whether I had any sufficient motiues or no to bethinke my selfe in matter of Religion more then I did before I knew there was so great cause why I should I will heere endeauour to be accomptable vnto you how things haue passed with me in this matter since my coming out of England Whiles I liued in Englād I was as you know as feruēt in our Protestāt religiō wherin I was brought vp as eyther your selfe or any in the Coūtrey can be I was a great reader of Scripture a great frequenter of Sermons and a great hater of Papists I often heard our preachers tell that the Church of Rome was a lienated from her first purity that it had entertayned many grosse errors and corruptions that forsooth the preachers of their Ghospell did restore and teach the very same doctrine that was taught in the tyme of the Apostles and
he would send so many togeather into the world about a restauration wherein they should be so opposite one vnto the other that they should goe about the setting it forward in sundry different fashions ech according to his owne manner and ech condemning the endeauours of all the others should preferre his owne for the sole and only truth And seeing there can be but one fort of true Reformers if there be worke for them and that all these pretenders thēselues doe confesse so much and ech of them as no doubt our sort in England doth in like sort pretend themselues to be those only true reformers and consequently to be directly sent from God into the world with the priuiledge and commission of restauration of true Religion I thought my selfe bound in all right and conscience to seeke to discouer by the best way which thereunto I could possibly imagine to be most requisite which of all others this might be wherin I also with my prayers beseeched Almighty God his fauour and direction relying vpon his promise when he sayth He that seeketh shall find Heereupon came a resolution to my mynde to demaund of these different sorts of Reformers of ech a part in particuler what they could alleadge for themselues to declare proue vnto me why their interpretation and vnderstanding of Scripture was better ought to be followed more then that of any of the others that differed from it And of this I desired to be certified by some proofes and reasons as that sort to whome I made the demaund could only alleage for it selfe and none of the rest for themselues but when all came to all that I had most seriously dealt with ech of these apart the satisfaction I got of the one was as good as that I had of the other albeit their vnderstandings were neuer so different and contrary for alwayes I found that after many circūloqutions before I could bring them to the matter for euery sort sought by shifts exasions to slip from giuing direct answere to the question in conclusion the proofe and assurance of hauing the true vnderstanding and interpretation of Scripture was no other then that they had it ech of them within it selfe deliuered vnto them by a certayne inward illumination of spirit But when vpon this I told them that I was now as farre to seeke as before because ech sort pretended his inward illumination of spirit that I desyred then to know how I might be assured that any one of these illuminations of spirit was from God and which it was they told me I might know that by that doctrine that was most consonant vnto the Word of God I demaunded which that was None but ours quoth the Hussite None but ours quoth the Lutheran None but ours quoth the Anabaptist and so in like sort any of our English Protestant Preachers would also haue sayd if he had byn heere among the rest But who shall iudge this quoth I Gods word quoth the one Gods word quoth the other and Gods word quoth the third But who shall shew me quoth I out of Gods word which it is that Gods word so iudgeth That will I quoth the Hussyte no that will I quoth the Lutheran no that will I quoth the Anabaptist and so would as many and as more haue sayd if they had all byn heere In fine it came to no other conclusion but that ech would haue his truth and true illumination of spirit tryed by Gods word but iust according as himselfe would be the interpreter thereof and heerby was I brought at last to be as far to seeke as at the first Consider now I pray you how well and wisely I was adrest Trust me if wishes might haue wrought their effects I desyred nothing more then that you had byn present with some two or three of the principall of your Paules-crosse Preachers to see what victory they could heere haue gotten aboue the rest that fight there so valiātly agaynst the ayre and make their auditory belieue that the dwelling place of Gods word is only in their mouthes My experiēce in this busines hath emboldned me to deliuer it thus plainly vnto you as it was and further to tell you that not long after I had left this discordant company I mett with one of our English Rabbins who held himselfe for no small foole neyther and I proposed vnto him the same question and I assure you he delt so honestly and plainly with me that he gaue me iust the same answere so left me as much beholding vnto him for good satisfaction as had done the others before him Trust me good Sir I had neuer thought that our pretence and bragge of our Ghospells light in England had stood vpon so weake a foundation as now I haue byn taught to discerne it and yet by no Papist neyther A man heerby may see what it is to be nuzled vp in deceyt and foolery and himselfe not to know it You may see by that which heere I haue sayd I haue not byn carelesse but curious in the seeking of such satisfaction as is most requisite reasonablee but you would haue wondred if you had byn present to see with what tricks and shifts ech of these sought to diuert and put of his answering to the question of giuing me assured knowledge of his illumination of spirit howbeit I lost not all my labour for all of them in the end gaue me assured knowledge that this their inward illumination that euery one is assured of aswel as the other is but a meere bable to beguile fooles Wherof hauing so cleerly discouered the vanity and folly I must desyre you to giue me leaue no longer to make a foole of my selfe And albeit I had continued vntill now my auersion from the Church of Rome yet considering that Hussytes Lutherans Anabaptists and Caluinists for by the name of Caluinists our Protestants in England are of all these others called aswell as of the Catholikes had al played the run-awayes from the sayd Roman Church were now become the accusers thereof but with different accusations I considered with my selfe that if the accusers of Susanna were proued false she innocent vpon the disagreemēt of two witnesses in their accusation how much the more may the Church of Rome be deemed innocent when there is so great a disagreement found in foure of her principall accusers Vpon this motiue I resolued to seeke to haue conference with some sufficient learned man of that Religion which by the meanes that I vsed I attayned vnto but bearing my selfe still as an earnest Protestant I found myself so confuted in my alleaging of the Protestants reasons and arguments that I neuer imagined them to haue byn so weake nor did I euer thinke that so much could be sayd of so great force for the contrary I found also very manifestly that diuers pointes which our preachers in England make vs belieue they hold are very