bloud of our redeemer IESVS Christ Secondly of seauen Sacraments instituted by our Sauiour both to exhibite honour to God and to sanctifie our soules they doe flatly reiect fiue of them And do further as much as in them lieth extinguish the vertue and efficacy of the other two For they hold Baptisme not to be the true instrument all cause of remission of our sinnes and of the infusion of grace in our soules but only to bee the signe and seale thereof And in steade of Christs sacred body really giuen to all Catholikes in the Sacrament of the Altar to their exceeding comfort and dignity the Protestants must be content to take vp with a bitte of bread and with a sup of wine a most pittifull exchange for so heauenly a banquet They doe daily feele and I would to God they had grace to vnderstand what a want they haue of the Sacrament of Confession which is the most soueraigne salue of the world to cure all the deadly and dangerous woundes of the soule Ah how carelesly doe they daily heape sinne vpon sin and suffer them to lie festring in their breasts euen till death for lacke of launcing them inseason by true and due confession Besides at the point of death when the Diuell is most busie to assault vs labouring then to make vs his owne for euer there is amongst them no anointing of the sicke with holy oile in the name of our Lord as S. Cap. 5. vers 14. Iames prescribeth joyned with the Priests praier which should saue the sicke and by meanes whereof his sinnes should be forgiuen and he lifted vp by our Lord and inwardly both greatly comforted and strengthned these heauenly helpes I say many others which our Catholike religion affords vnto all persons and by which rightly administred God is highly magnified are quite banished out of the Protestant territories and consequently their religion for want of them is mightily maymed They haue yet remaining some poore short praiers to be said twise a weeke for fearing belike to make their Ministers surfet of ouer much praying they will not tie them to any daily praiers Mattins Euensong and other set houres they leaue to the Priests sauing that on the Sabboath they solemnely meet together at the Church to say their seruice which is a certain mingle-mangle translated out of the old portaise and Masse booke patched vp together with some few of their owne inuention And though it be but short yet it is the Lord he knowes performed by most of them so slightly that an indifferent beholder would rather iudge them to come thither to gaze one vpon another or to common of worldly businesse than reuerently there to serue God Now as concerning the place where their diuine seruice is said if goodly stately Churches had not beene by men of our religion built to their handes in what simple cotes trow you would their key-cold deuotion haue beene content to serue their Lord if one Church or great steeple by any mishap fall into vtter ruine a collection throughout all England for many yeeres together will not serue to build it vp againe which maketh men of iudgement to perceiue that their religion is exceeding cold in the setting forward of good workes and that it rather tendeth to destruction than to edification Againe whereas our Churches are furnished with many goodly Altars trimmed vp decently and garnished with sundry faire and religious pictures to strike into the beholders a reuerent respect of that place and to draw them to heauenly meditations theirs haue ordinarily bare wals hanged with cob-webs except some of the better sort which are daubed like Ale-houses which some broken sentences of Scripture Besides the ancient custom of Christās being to pray with their faces toward the Sunne-rising to shew the hope they haue of a good resurrection and that by tradition receiued euen from the Apostles as witnesseth Saint Basil their Ministers in their highest mysteries De Spiritu sancto 27. looke ouer their Communiontable into the South to signifie perhaps that their spirituall estate is now at the highest and that in their religion there is no hope of rising towards heauen but assurance of declining R. ABBOT Our Diuine seruice and worship of God is not such as the Church of Rome and the followers thereof would haue it but it is sufficient for vs that it is such as God himselfe hath commanded Of true reall and externall sacrifice I haue answered him before both in the confutation of his a Sect. 27. Epistle more at large and briefly heere in the b Sect. 3. answer of this Preface Here I answer him againe in a word with the words of Iustin Martyr that c Iustin Mart. Dialog cum Tryph. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 prayers and thanksgiuings are the onely perfect and acceptable sacrifices to God and that Christians haue learned to doe these onely euen in the memoriall of their dry and moist foode the bread of the Eucharist and the cup of the Eucharist as hee hath before called it in which is the remembrance of the passion which God by God himselfe suffered for vs. So then we doe not denie all sacrifice but we say as we haue beene taught by the Apostle S. Peter according to the ancient doctrine of the Church of Rome d 1. Pet. 2 5. We are made a spirituall house a holy priesthood to offer vp spirituall sacrifices the sacrifice e Psal 4.5 of righteousnesse the sacrifice f Ps 50.14.23 Heb. 13.15 of praise and thankesgiuing the sacrifice g Psal 51.17 of a broken and contrite heart the sacrifice h Phil. 4.18 of almes the sacrifice i Rom. 12.1 of our own bodies acceptable to God by Iesus Christ By these sacrifices we doe all loialtie and seruice to God and we doe not doubt but that we please God therein If we please not that wiser sort of which M. Bishop speaketh the reason is because they take vpon them to bee wiser than God For that propitiatory sacrifice which he driueth at is beyond Gods deuice God neuer taught it Christ neuer ordeined it the Primitiue Church neuer intended it there is no reason at al for it because the bloud of Christ once shed for vs is a sufficient propitiation and attonement for all our sinnes And because by k Heb. 1.3 10.14 once offering of himselfe hee hath purged our sinnes and made vs perfect for euer therefore it is no despight to Gods true worship but a iust assertion thereof to hold that the pretence of any further sacrifice for sinne is an impious and blasphemous derogation to the crosse of Christ As for his seuen Sacraments Seuen Sacraments a late deuice if he can prooue them to bee as he saith instituted by our Sauiour we are very readie to acknowledge the same But it is worthy to be noted that l Bellarm. de effect sacram cap. 25. Bellarmine standing vpon the proofe thereof
and that euen to death and yet the Church of Rome against the intent of this Commandement alloweth that clandestine Marriages and the vowe of religion shall be in force though they bee without and against the consent of wise and carefull parents Answ It is very false to say that children must obey their parents in all things for if parents command them any thing either against Gods law or the Princes they must not obey them therein And touching clandestine and priuie Marriages they are of force aswell in the Church of England as in the Church of Rome yea more too For by the Church of Rome alwaies they haue beene forbidden verie seuerely and since the Councell of Trent are made voide and of no force where the Councell can be published Concerning entring into religion childrens vowes during their minoritie may be annullated and made of no force by their parents marry when they come to riper daies if their father stand not in necessitie of their helpe they may forsake him to follow Christ in a more perfect kinde of life as S. Iames and S. Matth. 4.22 Iohn forsooke their father Zebedee and followed Christ R. ABBOT There is little discretion in M. Bishops first exception because M. Perkins did vse no other but the Apostles words a Col. 3.20 Children obey your parents in all things for that is well pleasing vnto the Lord. When the Apostle saith in all things M. Bishop should not be so rude as to say It is verie false to say in all things howsoeuer wee denie not but that the words haue their limitation and restraint to those things wherein they command in right of parents The validitie of contracts marriages without consent of parents As touching marriages without consent of parents M. Bishop misreporteth the Councell of Trent which though it doe detest and prohibit the contracts of such marriages yet doth also b Conc. Trident. sess 24. Sancta Synodus anathemate damnat eos qui falsò affirmant matrimonia à filijs familias sine consensis parentum contracta irrita esse parentes rata vel irrata facere posse condemne them who say that such marriages when they are contracted are void and that it is in the power of the parents either to ratifie or disanull them The Church of England not meditating contradiction but truth approoueth so farre the sentence of the Councell and albeit it endeuoureth with all good care and circumspection to preuent and to exclude such wilfull and vngodly courses of marriage yet it acknowledgeth that marriages being so acted and done cannot be reuoked lamented they may be and greened at but voided they cannot be M. Perkins seemeth to be of other minde and hee followeth therein the iudgement of sundry late Diuines whom though otherwise we greatly esteeme and honour yet wee cannot subscribe that which they determine in this point Consent of parents belongeth to the honest and orderly proceeding of marriage and it is true that children sinne against the fift Commandement in neglecting their consent but this consent is no part of the essence and being of marriage which therefore being complet and perfect without it must necessarily stand good albeit the parents giue no consent vnto it The very essence of contract and marriage consisteth in the parties actuall giuing of themselues mutually ech to other according to the forme and maner of the countrey and place wherein they liue which being done the want of parents consent cannot vndoe it neither may they be sundred in two who by Gods ordinance though vnlawfully abused are become one By Gods ordinance I say because albeit they haue not vsed that maner of proceeding which God hath ordeined to the fastening of this bond yet the bond it selfe wherewith they are fastened is the ordinance of God to remaine inuiolable betwixt them that are once bound thereby Neither doth it make against this which is obiected that God ioineth not such together that they marry not in the Lord for so may it be said of them that marry only for carnal worldly respects of the beleeuer that matcheth him or her-selfe with an vnbeleeuer that they are not ioined by God nor married in the Lord because God hath forbidden such kinde of marriages to be made But yet as the bond of marriage though vnlawfully entred into holdeth these together and may not bee broken euen so though children may not lawfully marry without consent of parents yet being married they are tied by the couenant of God ech to other as husband and wife and may not shake off the yoke which they haue taken vpon themselues As for those phrases of Scripture which are vrged in this behalfe of parents c Gen. 21.21 Exod. 34.16 Deut. 7.3 taking wiues for their sonnes or husbands for their daughters and giuing their sonnes and daughters in marriage they imply indeed the parents right and power for the bestowing of their children but yet we cannot from thence argue that if the children preuent their parents and doe giue and bestow themselues their gift should bee void and their marriage a meere nullitie as if it had not beene For as wee reade of parents taking wiues for their sonnes so we reade of sonnes also without consent of parents taking wiues for themselues when yet the want of such consent hath been no disanulling of their marriage Esau d Gen. 26.34 tooke him two wiues of the daughters of Heth or Canaan e Ibid. 28.8 contrarie to the liking of his father and mother and yet when he had taken them hey held it not in their power to frustrate his taking of them but with griefe were forced to endure them And if the sonnes taking of a wife be of no force without the parents consent then Rebecca had no such cause of feare f Ibid. 27.46 lest Iacob also should take a wife of the daughters of Heth because his taking had been nothing so long as his father and mother should giue no consent vnto it So is it said of g Gen. 38.2 Iudah that he tooke him to wife a daughter of a Canaanite which wee cannot doubt but that it was as offensiue to his father Iacob as it had beene before to Isaac and yet his marriage was not taken to be of no effect To be short as the one phrase of Scripture may be deemed to import a right in the father to bestow the children so the other may bee thought to import a validitie of that which the childrē do though vnlawfully without the father It is here I know commonly obiected that God by his law prouided that h Num. 30.4 the vow of the daughter should not stand that was disauowed by the father and thereof is inferred that the daughters bestowing of her selfe in marriage cannot stand good without the father But that law if it be duly weighed maketh as little to that purpose as any thing else that is alleaged For the vowes and bonds
done in the middest thereof who imparted to other what they themselues saw and liued and died in the comfort of that faith which we now maintaine against the Church of Rome But many there were who did professedly separate themselues from the assemblies of the church because of the abominations that were exercised therein being carefull according to the knowledge which God had giuen them to keepe themselues vndefiled that with pure conscience they might serue him Yea sometimes and in some places there wanted not publike profession and exercise of Gods truth and whole countries and townes and cities followed the religion of Christ with expresse renouncing of the abominations of the church of Rome Which seuering of themselues notwithstanding not being absolute and vniuersall but onely respectiue because of the intolerable enormities and corruptions preuailing in the church made not them that thus diuided themselues a new or another church but onely freed them from the default of the church whereof they were members For to vse the former comparison as when the pestilence rageth in a city they that for auoiding the infection doe forbeare the common assemblies and meetings doe not thereby depriue themselues of their interest in that corporation state but doe still continue citizens and members thereof euen so they who for manifest idolatries and abominations did forbeare the communion and fellowship of their owne or other churches did not thereby disable or impeach their right and title of being members of the church but rather maintained the same so much the more by eschuing the corruptions wherby the church was in danger to be cut off to become no church But vpon al these the eie of malice was continually cast and Antichrist pretending c Aug. de Ciuit. Dei li. 20. c. 19. In templum dei sedet tanquam ipse sit templum dei quod est ecclesia c. Ad eum pertinentem hominum multitudinem simul cum ipso intelligi volunt c. himselfe and his onely to be the church of God waited and tooke all occasions and opportunities for the destruction of them By the stories it is plaine how they were hated and persecuted in England France Italy Germany Bohemia Poland and other countries vnder the names of Waldenses Albigenses Wicleuistes Hussites Taborites Carmelites Leonistes Lollardes and such like It is memorable which d Bellar. de notis eccl cap. 18. Bellarmine reporteth out of Paulus Aemelius the French Chronicler that of them there were a hundred thousand slaine at one time in France which was done by the procurement of e Hospinian de Origine Monach l 6. c. 4. Frier Dominicke who hauing long time laboured in the countrie of the Earle of Tholouse to bring them to the obedience of the sea of Rome when bringing nothing out of Gods word to perswade them hee could not preuaile plaied the butcherly wretch and caused so great a number of poore innocent soules by an army sent in amongst them miserably to be slaine In like sort by Matthew Paris it appeareth reporting the matter according to the conceit and report of that time that in Spaine and Germany there were f Math. Paris in Henrico 3. anno 1234. peremptus est infidelium haereticorum Albigensium numerus infinitus an infinite number of them murthered some of them he saith for rebellion but indeed all for conscience sake Such tragedies they acted in diuers and sundrie places from time to time for the space of three hundred yeeres and more they proscribed they killed and burned the professours of our religion the earth was died with their bloud and strawed with their ashes their stories mention them their registers name them their writers of heresies doe testifie what their opinions were albeit in some points thereof it appeareth by some of them that the rest lie fathering vpon them as g Idem ibid. Asserebant constanter fidem Christianam et praecipuè incarnationis mysterium friuolum esse penitus abrogandum Matthew Paris doth things impious and absurd which they neuer dreamed of and yet with impudent faces they aske of vs where our church where our religion was before Luthers time as if the same had neuer beene heard of in the world before As touching the persons then our church was manifest enough to them by whom it was thus persecuted which yet were not another church but children of one mother and members of one church with them that persecuted them I meane not of the church of Rome but of the Catholicke visible church which for the most part the church of Rome had brought in subiection to it selfe Their mother had plaied the harlot and with the whoore of Babylon had prostituted herselfe to Antichrist and because they would not approoue her fornications therefore shee condemned them therefore h Esay 66.5 their brethren who said Let the Lord be glorified yet did cast them out for the names sake of the Lord and they had occasion to complaine as doth the Spouse in the Canticles i Cant. 1.5 The children of mine owne Mother are risen vp against mee But if these persecutours glory that the churches and places of assembly were in their hands they doe no more but what the Arians of old did when they had gotten into their possession the churches thorowout the whole world we answer as Hilary did to them k Hilar. cont Auxent Malè vos parietum amor cepit malè ecclesiam dei in tectis aedificijsque veneramini Annè ambiguum est in his Antichristum esse sessurum Montes mihi syluae lacus carceres voragines sunt tutiores in his enim prophetae aut manentes aut demersi dei spiritu prophetabant You doe amisse to be in loue with walles ill doe you honour and admire the Church of God in houses and buildings Is there any doubt but that Antichrist shall sit in them Mountaines and woods and lakes and prisons and caues are safer to me for in them the Prophets abiding or sticking did Prophecie by the spirit of God The case is alike Arianisme had then ouerspred the whole face of the Church and the heretikes had the Churches in their hands the true professors of the faith were driuen into corners yet Hilary thought this to be no preiudice vnto them nay he held it to be the right picture of the true Church Euen so Poperie since hath preuailed and gotten the vpper hand what preiudice is it to the professours of true religion that in the meane time they haue vndergone the same condition that the Prophets and other faithfull in former times haue done Yea S. Austin expresly testifieth that l Aust epist 80 Ecclesia non apparebit impijs tunc persecutoribus vltra modum saeuientibus the Church in the time of Antichrist shall be inuisible because wicked persecutors shall then practise their crueltie beyond measure Let it bee the question then whether Antichrist be come but
seruice M. Bishop sheweth himselfe to be a man of a leaud and dishonest tongue that will make any comparison of the Church of Rome to our Church And thus we are come to an end of his long preface wherein what mature iudgement he hath shewed concerning a matter of so great moment it remaineth for the Reader to iudge for my part I iudge he did very ill bestow his time in blotting so many papers with so much folly and vntruth But his transition is woorthy to be noted Now to the rest of his questions saith he according to his own â—â—â—der whereas of twelue questions consequently handled by M. Perkins he speaketh not a word but onely passeth to an aduertisement in the end where hee thought least harme might befall to him Heere is some want of plaine dealing which may iustly cause his Reader to bee suspicious and doubtfull of him A confutation to D. BISHOPS answer to Master PERKINS his Aduertisement W. PERKINS An aduertisement to all fauourers of the Roman religion shewing as he weeneth that the said Religion is against the Catholike principles of the Catechisme that hath beene agreed vpon euer since the daies of the Apostles by all Churches Which principles be foure The Apostles Creed the tenne Commandements the Lords praier the institution of two Sacraments Baptisme and the Lords Supper 1. COR. 11. v. 23. 1. W. BISHOP I Had once determined to haue wholly omitted this goodly post-script because it containeth in manner nothing else but an irkesome repetition of that which hath beene I will not say twice before but more than twenty times handled ouer and ouer in this former small treatise notwithstanding considering both how ready many are when they see any thing omitted to say that it could not be answered and also for that these pointes heere reiterated are the most odious that he could cull out of all the rest to vrge against vs I finally resolued to giue them a short answer And further also by prouing their new religion to be very opposite vnto those old grounds of the true religion to requite him with the like that I die not in his debt Thus he beginneth The Roman religion established by the Councell of Trent is in the principall points thereof against the very grounds of the Catechisme the Creede the tenne Commandements the Lords praier the two Sacraments THe Catholike religion embraced and defended by the Church of Rome was planted and established there by the Apostles Saint Peter and Saint Paul fifteene hundred yeeres before the Councell of Trent and hath been euer sithence by the Bishops of Rome their lawfull successours constantly retained and most sincerely obserued and maintained some articles thereof called into question by the Heretikes of this latter age were in that most learned generall Councell of Trent declared and defined And great meruaile it were if the principall points thereof should be against the grounds of the Catechisme which is in euery point most substantially expounded by the decree and order of the very same Councell Or is it credible that the Church of Rome with which all other ancient Churches and holy Fathers did desire to agree and which hath beene euer most diligent to obserue all Apostolicall traditions should in the principall points of faith crosse and destroy the very principles of that religion that hath been agreed vpon by all Churches euer since the Apostle daies as he saith Is it not much more likely and probable that the Protestants who slander all Churches euer since the time of the Apostles with some kinde of corruption or other and who hold no kinde of Apostolicall tradition to be necessary is not not I say more credible that they should shake those grounds of faith which come by tradition from the Apostles and haue beene euer since by all Churches agreed vpon I suppose that few men of any indifferent iudgement can thinke the contrary R. ABBOT M. Bishop is desirous to seeme to haue omitted nothing because many saith he are ready when they see any thing omitted to say that it could not be answered and yet he hath cunningly omitted the handling of twelue questions as I haue already noted which are more than the third part of the booke which he vndertooke to answer In that which here he hath sent vs he taketh vpon him as to answer M. Our religion and not Popery is the old religion Perkins so by way of requitall to prooue that our new religion as he calleth it is very opposite vnto the old grounds of the true religion But if his eies were open he would easily see that that new religion and the true religion are all one our new religon as to him it seemeth being indeed no other but that onely true religion whereby all the faithfull haue been saued from the beginning and so shal be to the worlds end And if he will haue our religion to be taken for a new religion he must first impeach those grounds of antiquitie wherby we haue hitherto iustified the same against his vaine and wilfull cauilations As for that which he saith that the religion now defended by the Church of Rome was planted and established there by the Apostles Saint Peter and Saint Paul it is the begging of the question a fond presumption an idle headed dreame who but fooles and madde men beleeue it when they see the writings of the Apostles Peter and Paul and therein finde no mention of the religion that is now at Rome neither of the Pope nor of Purgatorie nor Pardons nor Iubilies nor Masse nor Images nor any other of that filth If the successors of that See had constantly reteined the faith that by the Apostles was deliuered we should now haue that religion at Rome which is taught in the Epistle to the Romanes which now is our religion and was then the religion of the church of Rome Of that religion those heretikes whom no otherwise he so nameth but according to the a Act. 24.14 Iewish phrase called nothing into question they only questioned impugned those additions and alterations wherewith the church of Rome hath defiled and disgraced that religion The Councel of Trent a mockerie of the world The Councell of Trent which declared and defined against them was neither learned nor generall It was a base and a vile collusion and meere mockerie of the world partially assembled by the Pope guilefully managed by his Agents directed wholly by his intelligence nothing there to bee concluded but what hee first approued yet all in sine left at his will by that damnable clause neuer heard of in any former Councel b Conc. Trid. sess 7. in princip sess 25. cap. 21. de reformat Salua semper in omnibus authoritate sedis Apostolicae Sauing alwaies and in all things the authoritie of the See Apostolike Some Diuines there were of qualitie and worth who gaue their assistance in that businesse but as for the Bishops of which
and bring all things to your remembrance that I haue told you and which he saith presently after i cap. 16.14 He shall glorifie me for he shall receiue of mine and shall shew it vnto you For hereby it is manifest that the holy Ghost which shall leade vs into all truth because he shall speake nothing of himselfe shall therefore k Thophylact in Ioan. 16. Nihil docturus est extra ea quae Christus docuit speake nothing but what Christ hath before spoken As therefore when Christ saith of himselfe l Ioh. 14.10 I speake not of my selfe hee would import that he spake nothing but what the father had before spoken in the Scriptures of the Law and the Prophets as m Chrysost de sanct orando spiritu Quia seductor est habitus dicit Ego à meipso non loquor sed de lege de Prophet is Chrysostome expoundeth it euen so when he saith of the holy Ghost that he shall speake nothing of himselfe we are likewise to conceiue that the holy Ghost shall teach nothing but what Christ himselfe hath first taught in the Scriptures of the Euangelists and Apostles Whereupon we conclude as Chrysostome doth n Ibid. Siquem videritis dicentem spiritum sanctum habee non loquentem Euangelica sed propria is à seipso loquitur non est spiritus sanctus in ipso Et paulò post Siquis eorum qui dicuntur habere spiritum sanctum dicat aliquid à seipso non ex Euangelijs ne credite c. Ex quo non legit haec scripta sed ex seipso loquitur manifestum est quod non habet spiritum sanctum If yee see a man saying I haue the holy Ghost and not speaking the things of the Gospell but matters of his owne he speaketh of himselfe and the holy Ghost is not in him If any of them who are said to haue the holy Ghost do speake any thing of himselfe and not out of the Gospell beleeue him not For that he readeth not those things which he saith in the Scriptures it is manifest that he hath not the holy Ghost Now therefore seeing M. Bishops church contrary to the ordinance of God seuereth o Esay 59.21 the spirit of truth from p Eph. 1 13. Col. 1.5 the word of truth and speaketh many things of her-felfe whereof Christ hath said nothing whereof wee reade nothing in the Scriptures it is manifest that they play the Sycophants as other heretikes haue done pretending to speake by the spirit of Christ when they speake wholly either by their owne or by a woorse spirit But M. Bishop not content with one corruption in substituting his church of Rome in the place of the Catholike Church of Christ addeth another in saying that that article of our Creede doth teach vs to beleeue the Catholike church Which words although being truely meant they expresse the same in English which wee say in Greeke and Latin yet being by the drift of his speech caried to a verie partiall and false construction doe shew him to be a leaud peruerter of our Christian faith For whereas we saie Credo sanctam ecclesiam Catholicam in the accusatiue case the meaning is I beleeue that there is a holy Catholike church namely that God the Father in all ages and at all times and amidst all the defections and corruptions of the world hath still had and shall haue his number of elect and chosen people to whom the benefite of Christs death and resurrection on standeth effectuall and good by the sanctification of the holy Ghost and the same now not of one nation or people onely but of all nations and peoples thorowout the whole world But M. Bishop by the currant of his speech turneth the accusatiue case into the datiue as if it were said in our Creed Credo ecclesiae sanctae Catholicae I giue credit to the holy Catholike church I beleeue it to be true whatsoeuer is taught me by the holy Catholike church that so his Reader thinkeing himselfe bound to beleeue the Catholike church and taking this Catholike church to be meant of the church of Rome may hold himselfe bound by the articles of his Creed in all things to beleeue the church of Rome Thus he and his fellowes most treacherously and leaudly against their owne knowledge and conscience delude simple and ignorant soules and make them slaues to their impious and wicked deuices by bearing them in hand that they are bound thus to obey the Catholike church Now heereof Master PERKINS iustly inferreth that the eternall truth of God the Creatour is heereby made to depend vpon the determination of the creature For let God say what he will wee shall not stand bound to take it for truth if the church shall say the contrary or vnlesse that which he saith be approoned by the Church Verily as Tertullian vpbraided of old the Senate of Rome that q Tertul. Apologet cap. 5. Apud vos de humano arbitratu diuinitas pensitatur nisi homini deus placuerit deus non erit with them Godhead stood at the discretion of men and vnlesse God did please man he should be no God so may it well be said now of the church of Rome that with them the religion of God standeth at their discretion and that onely shall be religion that pleaseth them For the Bishop of Rome whilest hee taketh vpon him to make declaration of Christian faith maketh what he list of Christian faith and hath verified of himselfe that which Hierome said of Antichrist that r Hieron in Daniel 7. Eleuatur supra omne quod dicitur deu◠cunctam religionem suae subijciens potestati he should subiect all religion to his owne power For the colouring of which iniquity M. Bishop according to their maner vseth guilefull words of notable hypocrisie and with a faire tale gloseth a grosse indignity and damnable presumption against God He telleth vs that Gods truth is sincere and certaine in it selfe before any declaration of the Church Well and what hath the church then to doe with this sincere and certaine truth Forsooth we poore creatures are subiect to mistaking and errour and doe not so certainly vnderstand that truth of God But who are those poore creatures of whom he speaketh Marry M. Bishop and such other petites who are but dij minorum gentium they are poore creatures but the Pope and his Cardinals and the Bishops that comply to him they are rich creatures they are the Church they are exempted from mistaking and errour we must thinke all perfection of wit to be lodged in their braines and that they certainely vnderstand and know the truth of God But what assurance can they giue vs in this behalfe Surely the Scribes and Pharisees the high Priests and Elders of the lewes had as much to say for themselues and a great deale more than they They could plead for themselues ſ Ioh. 8.33 We are the
death confessed that all his life he had doubted of three things whereof now he should be resolued whether there were a God whether the soule be immortall and whether there be any life after this life as Iulius the third who commanded to bring him his Porke in despight of God as Leo the tenth who made but a fable and a toy of all that we beleeue concerning Christ Many other of them haue there been of the same stampe most damnable villaines the very monsters of mankind vtterly deuoid of all remorse and conscience of piety towards God and thereby giuen ouer to all dissolutenesse and abomination of wicked and finfull life From them and their appendants hath this poison spred it selfe not only into the whole Court and City of Rome but into all Italy insomuch that in the Italian tongue the name of f Hespinian de Origine Monachatus lib. 6. c. 66. a Christian is by custome growen to signifie a foole M. Bishop well knoweth what the curse of the Wolfe is a most horrible blasphemy there vsed not fit for the mouth of any Christian to speake or the pen of any Christian to write to which though the Pope for his credits sake haue of later time assigned some kind of punishment yet well he woteth that it is more generall than that his Law can worke the restraint of it Out of Italy or at least from birds of the Popes hatching came the book De tribus mundi impostoribus whereby Moses and Christ as well as Mahomet are made but deluders and deceiuers of the world Out of Italy came Machiauels precepts wherby he hath taught men to cast off all yoke of religion and to vseit only to serue turne which notwithstanding according to that conceipt that he had of religion could say that g Machiauel Disputat de resubl l. 1. c. 12. Nusquam mâ—nus vel pietatis vel religionis est quam in ijs hominibus qui Romae vicinâ—ores habitant there was no where lesse faith or piety than in them that dwell neerest to Rome Whose rules as they are at this day the managing of the Papacy and familiar to all states that are confederated therewith so specially are they entertained and practised by the Iesuits who hauing taken away the honor from Friar Dominick of being the pillar of the Lateran Church and being become the speciall vpholders of the declining kingdome of Antichrist are discouered by the secular Priests and namely by their Proctor Watson to be very Atheists not regarding religion at all but only for a cloke to hide their villanies and for the compassing of their wicked and vngodly designes Thus Atheisme albeit it be not contained in the positiue Doctrine of the Romane Church yet becommeth a sequell thereof whilst hauing no true grounds for the iustifying of it and therfore being driuen to support it selfe by carnall policy it begetteth in the Politicians that practise for it a striuing and fighting against God whereby religion is quite banished out of the heart and only an outward colour remaineth for their maintenance of outward state Now therefore I will not question them of Atheisme vpon M. Perkins grounds but leauing his conclusion will only examine so far as need requireth M. Bishops defense of the propositions from which he draweth that conclusion there being nothing here but what either hath been before or must afterwards be further spoken of First M. Popery ouerthroweth the grace of God Perkins propoundeth that the Church of Rome making the merit of mens works to concur with the grace of God ouerthroweth the grace of God Which to be true appeareth by the words of the Apostle who mentioning k Rom. 11 6. the election of grace inferreth thus If it be of grace it is not of works otherwise grace is no grace or if it be of works it is not of grace otherwise worke is no worke importing plainly that grace and worke cannot be so reconciled as that what is of grace may truely be said to bee of works or what is of works may truely bee said to bee of grace For grace as Hierome expoundeth it importeth i Hieron Rom. ca. 11. Gratuitum munus appellatur a free gift so that k Iden epistâ—ad Vâ—metriad vli gratià non operum retributio sed donatis est largitas where grace is there is not rewarding of works but largesse and bounty of gift For l Leo epist. 84. Quae vtâ—que nisi â—atis detur non est gratia sed merces retributiâ—o meritoâ—uÌ„ grace saith Leo bishop of Rome except it be freely giuen is not grace but the reward and recempense of merits or workes implying that if it be the reward of merits then it is not freely giuen and therefore cannot be calied grace Therefore when the Apostle saith m Rom. 6.23 Eternall life is the grace or gift of God through Iesus Christ our Lord we must vnderstand it according to the words of the Psalme n Vulgat Latin Psal 55.7 Proâ—ihilo saluos facies illos Thou wilt saue them for nothing o â—â—eion ad Pâ—â—â—g lib 2. Hand 〈◊〉 quio iustos qui nou proprâ—â—â—crâ—to sed de saluâ—ntur clementia meaning the iust saith Hierome who art not saued by their owne merit but by the mercy of God To this M. Bishop telleth vs that they doe not make the merit of mans worke and the grace of God two distinct agents but hold that no works of man haue any merit vnlesse they proceed and prinâ— from the very grace of God Where not to question what he meaneth by giuing the name of an agent to the merit of mans worke answer him to the rest that his answer is vnsefficient and vaine because the Apostle knew well that we haue no workes wherewith to mooue God but only such as proceed from the grace of God and yet resolueth that Gods election if it be of works cannot be said to be of grace Whencesoeuer the workes proceed this rule standeth still most firme and sure that that cannot be said to be freely giuen and for nothing that is repaied to the merit of workes But whilest they will haue only workes of nature excluded by the Apostles words and not the workes that are wrought by grace they necessarily fall into the heresie of the Pelagians that the election of grace dependeth vpon the foresight of those works which our free will should doe by the help of grace Which if they will not grant as I trow they will not they must perforce confesse that the Apostle heere excludeth not only workes of nature but generally all workes whatsoeuer And the rather must they so confesse that they may not make the Apostle speake so idlely as by that construction he doth If it be of grace then it is not of workes done without grace and if it be of workes done without grace then it is not of grace as if the Apostle had had to doe with men who
we admit them all to be true doth conuince vs to haue disgraded Christ of his offices which are these to appease Gods wrath towards vs to pay the ransome for our sinnes to conquer the Diuell to open the Kingdome of heauen to bee supreme head of both men and Angels and such like He may without any derogation vnto these his soueraigne prerogatiues giue vnto his seruants first power to make lawes to binde in conscience as he hath done to all Princes which the Protestants themselues dare not denie then to determine vnfallibly of the true sense of holy Scripture which the Apostles could doe as all men confesse and yet do not make them Christs fellowes but his humble seruants to whom also hee gaue power properly to pardon sinnes Luc. 24. Ioan. 20. Mar. 16. Matt. 28. Whose sinnes you pardon on earth shall be pardoned in heauen and finally to them he also gaue authoritie ouer the whole earth goe into the vniuersall world Ouer part of hell no Pope hath authoritie and when he doeth good to any soule in Purgatory it is per modum suffragij as a suppliant and entreater not as a commander Whether hee hath any authoritie ouer Princes and their subiects in temporall affaires it is questioned by some yet no man not wilfully blinde can doubt but that Christ might haue giuen him that authority without disgrading himselfe of it as he hath imparted to him and to others also faculties of greater authoritie and vertue reseruing neuerthelesse the same vnto himselfe in a much more excellent maner As a King by substituting a Viceroy or some such like deputie to whom he giues most large commission doth not thereby disgrade himselfe of his Kingly authority as all the world knowes no more did our Sauiour Christ Iesus bereaue himselfe of his power or dignitie when hee bestowed some part thereof vpon his substitutes He goes on multiplying a number of idle words to small purpose as that we for one Christ the onely reall Priest of the new Testament ioyne many secondary Priests vnto him which offer Christ daily in the Masse Wee indeed hold the Apostles to haue beene made by Christ not imputatiue or phantasticall but reall and true Priests And by Christ his owne order and commandement to haue offered his body and bloud daily in the sacrifice of the Masse what of that see that question Furthermore he saith for one Iesus the all-sufficient mediatour of intercession they haue added many fellowes to him to make request for vs namely as many Saints as be in the Popes Kalendar yea and many more too For we hold that any of the faithfull yet liuing may bee also requested to pray for vs neither shall hee in haste bee able to prooue that Christ onely maketh intercession for vs though he be the onely mediatour that hath redeemed vs. R. ABBOT Christ by his office is our Prophet our Priest and our King Christ degraded by the Pope As a Prophet he hath declared fully and finally the whole counsell and way of God for the attainment of eternall life As a Priest he hath offered a sacrifice for our redemption and by vertue of that sacrifice is our Mediatour to intreat mercy for vs. As a King he prescribeth lawes whereby to gouerne vs and hauing a Matt. 28.18 All power giuen to him both in heauen and earth exerciseth the same to safegard and defend vs. In all these offices of which M. Bishop speaketh as if he vnderstood not what they meane the Church of Rome offereth most high indignity to the Son of God To take the points spoken of in order as they are first they are iniurious to the kingdome of Christ in that they giue the Pope authority to make lawes to bind in conscience which Christ only hath authority to doe b See hereof part 2. pag. 17.18 To bind in conscience is to tie the conscience and inward man to an opinion of holinesse and spirituall deuotion in the thing which is done so as to account the same a worship of religion whereby God is truly serued and honoured yea and further according to Romish fancies the means of remission of sinnes and the merit of eternall life This whosoeuer doth sheweth himselfe a deceiuer and an Antichrist and the Pope in so doing is found to be he of whom the Apostle prophecied c 2. Thess 2.4 that he should sit as God in the temple of God domineering in the hearts and consciences of them of whom it is said d 2. Cor. 6.16 Ye are the temple of the liuing God If Princes attempt to make lawes in this sort they are therein vniust and presumptuous against God Otherwise to speake of Princes lawes God himselfe bindeth the conscience to yeeld the outward man in subiection to the Prince when notwithstanding the conscience it selfe remaineth free as touching the thing which the Prince commandeth I know that in outward things it is true which the Apostle saith e 1. Cor. 6.12 10.23 All things are lawfull for mee I may doe all things God hath giuen mee no restraint To eat or not to eat to weare such a garment or not to weare it to doe thus or thus it is all one with God I am no whit the better the one way nor the worse the other way Neuerthelesse if my Prince command mee either way God requireth mee to abbridge my selfe of the outward vse of that liberty which he otherwise hath giuen mee and to performe obedience to my Prince yet still retaining inwardly the same opinion and persuasion of the thing in it selfe that I had before and therefore content to tie my selfe outwardly to do thus because I know inwardly that it is indifferent to God either to doe thus or thus The second presumption of the Pope against Christ is in taking vpon him infallibly to determine the sense of holy Scripture By which pretense he most impudently carieth himselfe bringing all abhominations into the Church and corrupting all religion and seruice of God and yet affirming that he doth nothing contrary to the Scripture because whatsoeuer the words of Scripture are yet the sense must be no other but what he list But well might we be thought to be without sense if so senseles a tale should preuaile with vs a thing which in the ancient Church for so many hundreds of yeeres amidst so many questions and controuersies was neuer dreamed of What needed the fathers so much to busie themselues and out of their owne exercise and experience prescribe rules to others for finding out the true sense of Scripture when as a Pope with a wet finger could haue helped them to the certaine and infallible truth thereof Yea why haue we so many Commentatours of the Church of Rome so various and diuers in their expositions and interpretations of Scripture and why doth not the Pope rather by one commentary of his illuminated vnderstanding reconcile all differences dispatch all doubts and resolue at once
him of his departure which he should accomplish at Ierusalem If he did how came it then to passe that hee was not feized with the same sorrows We doubt not but the bodily passions of Christ were exceeding great and yet we doubt not but that M. Bishop therein alleageth too slender a cause of so great an agonie Well somewhat to enlarge this hee addeth that he represented to himselfe the causes of his passion which were the innumeral le most grieuous sinnes of the world But I aske againe is it likely that Christ h Ioh. 2.25 who knew what was in man did neuer before represent to himselfe the sinnes of men Or shall we thinke that the bare representing of mens sins to himselfe could cause him so great affliction and distresse Yea and we would gladly know how to this representation of mens sins he will fit the praier that Christ vseth Father if it be possible let this cup passe from me Hee saith that heereby Christ would in euery part both of minde and body endure what he possibly could for the time But what a vaine dreame is he in that will talke of so great a passion in Christ and yet make the ground thereof to be onely imagination Yea but he telleth vs further that Christ would shew how naturally hee as all other men did abhorre such a cruell and ignominious death What and was the cause of his agony then no other but what other men might haue as well as he And did Christ so greatly shrinke backe from death who knew that within three daies he should rise againe Surely S. Austin though hee expresse not the true cause thereof yet wholly disclaimeth this willing them to whom he spake i August in Psal 21. Nist sortè tutatis fratres quiae quando dixit dominus pater c. mori timebat Non est fortior miles quà m Imperator sufficit seruo vt sit sicut dominus eius Paulus dicit miles regis Chrisli concupiscentiam habens dissolui c. Ille optat mortem vt sit cum Chrisio Chrisius ipse timet mortem not to thinke that Christ was afraid to die when he said Let this cup passe from me The souldiour saith he is not of greater courage then the captaine It sufficeth the seruant to be as his master is Paul saith I desire to be loosed and to be with Christ He wisheth to die that hee may be with Christ and is Christ himselfe afraid of death No no a greater mater it was that when no bodily violence was yet offered to him did so oppresse his soule to the verie gates of death and drew from him blood in steed of sweat and made him so earnestly againe and againe to pray that he might escape drinking of that cruelly distastefull and bitter cup. It was not death but the wrath of God in death not the conceit of our sinnes but k Esa 53 12. the bearing thereof and l 2. Cor. 5.21 being made sinne for vs that caused the Sonne of God that great agonie and feare But of this shall be spoken further in the next section where it shal appeare God willing that the ancient holy fathers gathered out of the Gospel this selfsame for wholesome doctrine and godly instruction and therefore that Caluin did not play the venemous Spider to sucke poison from thence vnlesse M. Bishop meane poison to poison as Christ was a Serpent to the serpent and as a poison to him that poisoued vs for as the spider they say is poison to the toad and killeth him so the saith and religion of Christ which Caluin hath taught out of the Gospel hath beene and shall be a poison to the poison of the church of Rome to bring it to nought as hitherto it hath done He goeth on with diuers idle questions onely to find his Printer worke but to doe his aduersarie no harme If Christ so wauered where was his constancie I answer him Christ wauered not but by inuincible constancie of obedience ouercame that drawing backe which the pure affection of vndefiled nature motioned vnto him If he were so frighted where was his fortitude But the greater his feare was the greater his fortitude appeareth in ouercomming that feare because great fortitude is not mooued with small feares but passeth them with contempt and M. Bishop should know that vertue consisteth not in being void of passions as Stoickes held but in the subduing conquering of them And doth not hee himselfe tell vs before that Christ tooke vpon him feare If he thinke that Christ did so indeed why doth he not put the same in question to himselfe where then was his fortitude If he thinke this feare to be some light matter what place leaueth he for those words of the Apostle m Heb. 5.7 who in the daies of his flesh did offer vp praiers and supplications with strong crying and teares to him that was able to saue him from death and was heard in that which he feared Hee will say that wee translate amisse in that which he feared Yet Gregory Nazianzen so vnderstood it reckoning out of this place n Greg. Nâ—zi de filio orat 2. Ad hanc considerationen pertinet quò obedientiam ex ijs didicit quae passus est item clamâ—r lachrymae supplicationes exauditiones metus c. Christs crying his teares his supplications the hearing of him and his feare But leauing that to his selfe-wit and wil the text it selfe doth otherwise sufficiently confirme what wee say because they must needs be euen whole armies of terrors and feares that must wrest from him those praiers with strong crying and teares Yea and when it is said that in those praiers he looked vnto God as able to saue him from death manifest it is that out of horror and feare it was that he so praied Feare I say still as a passion of nature not any distrust of vnbeleefe not whereby he was dismaied but yet whereby he was in the highest degree affected with that dreadfull sight which his eies then were bent vpon Againe he saith If he strugled against his Fathers decree where was his obedience His obedience was in this that o Ambros in Heb 5. Qui non venit facere voluntatem suam sed eius qui misit illum voluntatem paternae dispensatienis praetulit voluntati carnis suae Whereas he came not to doe his owne will but the will of him that sent him he preferred the will of his fat hers ordinance before the will of his owne flesh By the will of his owne flesh then he willed somewhat otherwise then his father had decreed else why doth he say Not what I will yet he doth not by this will of his flesh struggle against his fathers decree but submitteth this will with all patience to his fathers wil. And heereby appeareth what a friuolous question he mooueth in the next words if he refused to redeeme vs what was become of his charitie
and assembling of the persons for the performance of that seruice The Church may be visible the former way when it is not visible the latter because it may be seene and knownen that there are many persons of such deuotion though they be not seene in any assembly for the practise of their deuotion In this sort there haue beene alwaies some either few or moe either one where or other who to the world though with perill and losse of their liues haue giuen testimony of the truth of God If we will vnderstand visible the latter way we must consider that the church it selfe may be spoken of diuersely either as touching the title of outward vocation and calling or as touching the sinceritie and truth of profession and faith There may be a church as touching outward calling visible to the world which yet doth not preserue that integrity truth of faith whereby it first became a church There may be a people tied by couenant vnto God and by Sacraments professing in their assemblies to serue him who yet vnfaithfully peruert the seruice of God and depart from that way of religion which he hath taught them In this outward state and condition of the Church it is to be remembred which our Sauiour Christ saith k Math. 22.14 Many are called but few are chosen the multitude generally taking vpon them to be called the people of God when few of them are so indeed in so much that the Prophet Esay cried out concerning the Church of Israel l Esay 10.21 Rom. 9.27 Though the number of the children of Israel were as the sand of the sea yet but a remnant shall be saued For euen in the profession of true religion and where the word of God hath publicke maintenance and state yet how few are there commonly who care to bring foorth the fruits thereof in holy conuersation Albeit it falleth out further also many times that this outward face of the church is beraied with the filth of manifold superstitions and idolatries that true doctrine is reiected and in place thereof humane traditions and inuentions are set vp and magnified whilest men neglect and forget the couenant of God and will needes vse their owne wits for seruing him Yea so far they proceed in the admiration and liking of their owne doings as that they hate the truth and become persecutours of them who continue constant therein and refuse to ioine with them to be partakers of their sinne Thus it came to passe in Israel by the sinne of Ieroboam and much more by the sinne of Ahab and in Iudah by the Apostasie of Manasses who brought abhomination into the temple of God and set vp idols there to be worshipped instead of God At which time the case so stood as that Israel and Iudah hauing both cast off the yoake of the law of God broken the bounds that he appointed them there was no publike state of true religion throughout the whole world The publike state and gouernement of the same church of the Iewes the onely visible church refused the preaching of Christ preferred their owne traditions before Gods commandement and pronunced sentence of death against the Sonne of God They onely were the people of God the Church of God but perfidiously they rebelled against God and refused to be guided by his word But yet amidst all this Apostasie and defection of the church the calling of God did not become vaine neither was his couenant of circumcision without effect but still he had a remnant in whom he was glorified m 1. King 19.18 seuen thousand in Israel though vnknowen to Elias who had not bowed their knee vnto Baal in Iudah many who continued stedfast in the testimony of God in the pursute of whom Manasses is said n 2. King 21.16 to haue shed innocent blood exceeding much and to haue replenished Ierusalem therewith from corner to corner In a word at the comming of Christ amongst a huge heape of chaffe there were some graines of wheat some few faithfull that o Luk 2.38 23.51 waited for redemption and for the kingdome of God Now then where the church importeth them only that are professours of Gods true religion there the church is sometimes visible and somtimes inuisible visible one where another where inuisible For true religion sometimes hath publike state maintenance and the assemblies and congregations for exercise thereof are apparant to all mens eies that whosoeuer will may resort vnto them But sometimes hypocrisie getteth the vpper hand and vnder the name of the Church challengeth to it selfe the places of publike assemblie driuing out from thence synceritie and truth and suffering nothing to be done there but for it owne behoofe Heere then the professours of truth are faine p 1. King 18.4 Heb. 11.37.38 to hide their heads and to keepe themselues in corners and by stealth onely to assemble and meete together It falleth out heere many times that they are forced with Elias q 1. Kin. 19.3 to flie for their liues and because they are watched and waited for to be drawen to death therefore doe betake themselues to places where so neere as may be they may saue each to other neither be knowne nor seene In this case therefore the church that is the professours of the true faith and religion of the Church are said to be inuisible not for that they are meerely to mens eyes inuisible as is the Church in the first sense before named but because it is not to bee seene in publike state and assembly in free open profession as in times of peace and liberty it is woont to be For that otherwise they are visible appeareth plainly in that they liue continually subiect to the malignity of their aduersaries to indignity and reproch to bonds and imprisonment to cruell massacrees tortures and death all which they should auoid if they were wholly out of sight But this inuisibility of the church is not to be considered onely in the church persecuting the church the worse part thereof the better r August de doct Christ l. 3. cap. 32. Corpus domini verum atque simulatum the counterfeit body of Christ as Saint Austin calleth it the true but also when by foreiners and strangers attempt is made against the whole church For so it is sometimes that the whole name of the church of God is impugned and the aduersary vseth all his might vtterly to extinguish the memoriall thereof God by this meanes making triall of his and exercising their faith and patience and bringing iust reuenge vpon hypocrites who abuse his calling and grace to the doing of their owne will Heere then God giuing way to the enemy the outward state of the church is wholy ouerthrowen the publike exercise of religion is altogether interrupted and broken off and the members of the church though they be seene and knownen as such a people yet are not seene in the condition of the
church that is assembling themselues together to performe religion and seruice to their God This was the state of the church in the captiuity of Babylon when Ierusalem was burnt to the ground the temple destroied the people of God carried away into strange lands and heere and there dispersed amongst the heathen nations The like befell them by the tyranny of Antiochus euen in their owne land their temple being defiled their religion interdicted and euery one commanded to be slaine that would not renounce the law of God Now to apply all these things to the state of the church of Christ it was first oppugned by professed enemies who sought wholly to root out the name of Christians and to abandon the faith of Christ vtterly out of the world Thus did the Iewes first and after them the Heathens persecute the whole profession of Christianity and by the importunity of their cruelty did many times so obscure and darken the face of the church as that for the most part it was hardly to be seene Whosoeuer were found to giue open testimony to the name of Christ were martyred and slaine the rest for feare of the like danger either fled into wildernesses and solitary places or else had their meetings very couertly and secretly that they might not be espied Yea their sauage and barbarous fury so far preuailed as that they seemed to themselues to haue gotten a perpetuall victory ouer the name of Christ and did set vp pillars of marble as trophees thereof whereof it is said that some monuments are yet remaining vntill this day Thus albeit many thousands there were who heere and there dispersed and scattered continued steadfast in the faith of Christ and in many places couertly gathered themselues together for the exercise of their faith yet the Church to the sight of the enemies therof was inuisible neither could they in a manner take knowledge of any against whom their malice might any further proceed But when by the prouidence and mercy of God the sword of those tyrants was wrested out of their hands this inuisible church soone came to light againe and began to enioie outward state and honour and the Saints who seemed to haue beene dead and buried in euerlasting reproch and shame became renowmed and glorious in the world and as they were indeed so began they in the opinion of men to be exalted vnto heauen From thencefoorth we affirme that the church hath neuer ceased to be eminently and apparantly visibly to al the world so far are we from saying that which Bellarmine as the master and M. Bishop here as the scholar do impute vnto vs Å¿ Bâ—llarm de notis eccl cap 9. Ecclesiam visibilem a multis seculis perijsse c. docent omnes that the visible church for many ages was quite perished out of the world How can we be taken to say that the church was perished for many ages who doe hold that for those many ages whereof we speake Antichrist according to that that was prophecied of him did t 2. Thess 2.4 sit as God in the Temple that is to say the church of God If we say that Antichrist sate that is dominated and tyrannized in the church the visible church then surely we deny it not to be the visible church wherein Antichrist did sit We confesse that the church in all that time hath beene apparant to the eies of all men the whole world saw it Turkes and Saracens fought against it and did their vttermost to root it out that the name of Christians might no more haue beene heard of amongst men But we say withall that the visible church by the vsurpation of Antichrist was become for the most part as the temple of God in the daies of u 2. King 2â— 4.7 Manasses replenished with idolatries and abhominations or as the church of the Iewes at the comming of Christ euen x Mat. 9.36 like sheepe without a shepheard burdened with humane traditions and wanting the free aire of the word of God whereby hee ministreth the breath of euerlasting life As y Ierem. 3.20 the wife that is rebellious and vnfaithfull to her husband z Prou. 2.17 which forsaketh the guide of her youth and forgetteth the couenant of her God so was the state of the Church shamefully polluting her selfe with manifold fornications whiles she proftituted herselfe to the embracings of the Romane adulterer and yeelded to him the obedience and seruice which she should haue reserued vnto Iesus Christ Shee was the mother indeed by whom God through baptisme brought foorth children to himselfe but being though by nature a mother yet by affection a step-mother when she had brought them foorth shee poisoned them or else hated and put them from her if any refused to drinke of her cup and to approoue those adulteries and sorceries wherewith their father her husband and Lord was dishonoured by her And many such were there through the whole decourse of the desolations of Antichrist whose eies God opened some more some lesse to see the filthinesse of their mother who though happily by education they were not wholly without some aspersion of the errors and superstitions of their times yet abhorred those Idolatries and abhominations whereby the Church had broken her faith to God and made way so much as in her lay for her full diuorce and separation from him For God forbid that we should thinke that the spirit of trueth was wholly departed from the Church or that the couenant of Baptisme was voide on Gods behalfe sealing none vnto him but that amidst those ruines he had still his remnant which not in name onely but in trueth were the Church of Christ For as in a common pestilence though it rage neuer so sore yet it infecteth not all and many whom it doth infect yet are not deadly infected but many by preseruatiues escape and others by strength of nature expel the venime in botches and sores so as that life is still preserued euen so in that generall pestilence and infection which the breath of Antichrist had blowen abroad through the church howsoeuer it were vniuersally dispersed yet it tainted not all and many that were touched with it yet drunke not so deepe of the whore of Babylons cup as to surfet and die thereof and albeit they might seeme in a maner to bee drowned in common errours yet reteined that fundamentall doctrine of true faith in Christ whereby they keept the head aboue water to receiue the breath of life and through the fire of repentance by harty praier vnto God for remission of all their sinnes and ignorances whether knowen to them in their end or remaining vnknowen passed vnto eternall life a See Simon Goulart Catalog test veritatis Many such there were in the bosome of their church euen in their monasteries and religious houses to whom God reuealed the light of his truth Who b Ezech. 9.4 mourned and cried for all the abhominations that were
as he is a priuate man may erre but as Pope and in his consistory and iudiciall sentence hee cannot erre But what is the church now become an asse to carry a priuiledge for the Pope onely To returne vpon himselfe the skiruie terme that he hath vsed in the former section Is not heere a huge great mill-post fairely thwited into a poore pudding pricke that whereas we are told that it was the effect of the inestimable price of Christs bloud to purchase a church free from all errours in matter of faith The word of God the rule and square of Christian religion we haue this great prerogatiue of the Church resolued finally into a drunken dreame concerning the Pope that it is he onely that cannot erre This is the vpshot of all and to this issue the matter commeth that the church may erre the general councell may erre be the persons neuer so learned neuer so faithfull neuer so holy onely the Pope though hee bee an ignorant beast a very he hound and incarnate diuell yet sitting downe in his chaire of Pestilence to decree a sentence receiueth presently like the Prophets of Apollo some Enthusiasticall impression whereby he pronounceth infallibly a truth howsoeuer he himselfe in his owne priuate opinion bee perswaded otherwise Which being a ridiculous presumption a meere nouelty most impudently deuised by sycophants and parasites a matter which hath no shadow of defense from the beliefe or practise of the ancient church deserueth rather to be reiected with scorne than to haue any question made of it As for that other matter which he adioineth concerning the word of God and interpretation thereof he saith rightlie that we hold for so we doe the holy word of God to be the onely rule and square of Christian religion u Iren adu haeres lib 3. cap. 1. Euangelium per dei voluntatem in Scripturis nobis tradiderunt fundamentum columnam fidei nostrae futurum For it was the will of God that the Apostles should commit the Gospell to writing To be the pillar and foundation of our faith and x Aug. in epist. Ioan. tract 3. contra insidiosos errores ponere voluit deus firmamentum in Scripturis sanctis in the scriptures to appoint vs a fortresse against deceitfull errours so as that y Chrysost op imperfect hom 49. Christiani qui sunt in Christianitate volentes accipere firmitatem fidei ad nullam rem aliam fugiant nisi tantummodo ad scripturas Christians being desirous to receiue assurance of their faith are no whither else to flie but onely to the Scriptures But wheras he affirmeth that we say that Christ hath left his holy word to be vnderstood of euery man as his own knowledge and spirit shall direct him and that in doubtfull questions arising he hath taken no order for the deciding of them but that euery one may be his own Iudge they are but silly deuices of obiection against vs to colour the nouelties absurdities which we in the same behalfe iustly condemne in them Wee euery man vnderstand the Scriptures as his owne knowledge and spirit doth direct him and why Because we reiect that course of vnderstanding the Scripture which they factiously and partiallie haue of late deuised for the seruing of their owne turne z Hosius de expresso dei verbe Siquis habeat interpretatisnem ecclesiae Romanae de loco aliquo scripturae etiamsi nec sciat nec intelligat an quomodo cum scripturae verbis conueniat tamen habet ipsissimum verbum dei If a man forsooth haue the interpretation of the church of Rome concerning any place of Scripture albeit he seeth not how it accordeth with the words yet he hath the very word of God We leaue euery man in doubtfull questions to be his owne Iudge but why Because we refuse the triall of a Iudge presumptuously aduanced and authorised by them Forsooth the Pope being accused of hainous abominations and sacriledge against God must sit as Iudge whether he be guiltie or not and whether they doe iustly that haue accused him But what Scripture what Councell what Father or storie or practise of the Church hath tied the interpretation of the Scriptures to the church of Rome or the deciding of controuersies to the Bishop of Rome And whereas their course in this behalfe hath no maner of iustification from the ancient Church I challenge him on the other side to alleage any course entertained by the same Church for the interpretation of Scriptures and iudgement of controuersies which is not approued and practised by vs. Which because he cannot do he doth but waste his wit by trifling in this sort and renuing idle cauils which a Of Traditions sect 21.22 before haue beene troden vnder foote being not able to relieue them with any further defense or strength 18. W. BISHOP To fold vp this part let me entreate thee courteous reader to be an vpright Iudge betweene the Protestants doctrine and ours in this most weighty matter of Christs dignity vertues and mediation and if thou see most euidently that ours doth more aduance them why shouldest thou not giue sentence on our side They make Christ ignorant many yeares of his life we hold him from the first instant of his conception to haue beene replenished with most perfect knowledge They that he spake and taught now and then as other men did and was subiect to disordinate passions We that he was most free from all such and that he taught alwaies most diuinely They make his very death not sufficient to redeeme vs we hold that the least thing that euer he suffered in his life deserued the redemption of many worlds They that he died onely for the elect we that he died for all though many through their owne fault doe not receiue any benefit by his death They that thereby we are not purged from our sinnes but by imputation we that all are by the vertue thereof inwardly cleansed They that Christ purchased a Church consisting of few not to continue long and subiect to many errours we that he established a Church that should be spread ouer all the world and that should continue to the end of the world visibly and alwaies free from any errour in any matter of faith Finally they hold that Christ left his holy word to the disputation of men not taking any certaine order for the ending of controuersies that should arise about it we teach that he hath established a most assured meanes to decide all doubts in religion and to hold all obedient Christians inperfect vniformity of both faith and manners And because I am entred into these comparisons giue mee leaue to persist yet a little longer in them Consider also I pray you who goe neerer to Atheisme either we that thinke and speake of the most sacred Trinity as the blessed Fathers in the first Councell of Nice taught or they who directly crosse them and by the nouelty
made If these Ministers had once deceiued you in a money matter you would beware how you trusted them againe and will you beleeue them still they hauing by their owne confession hitherto deceiued you both in your Church seruice Bible coÌ„mending the one to you as diuine seruice and the other as Gods pure word and now condemning them both Which words of his doe carry some colour to blinde the ignorant but he himselfe well knew that he did but play the Sicophant and made only a shew of great matter against vs wherein in truth there is no waight at all For wold the sorry fellow haue argued thus against the faith of the whole church that had been for the space almost of foure hundred yeeres when Hierome tooke in hand to translate the Bible anew and to reforme the defects and imperfections both of the Septuagint of other translations which the Church had vsed till that time It appeareth by Hierome that c Hier. ad Paulam Eustoch Praefat. in Esaiae translat Qui scit me ob hoc in peregrinae linguae eruditione sudasse ne Iudaei de falsitate scripturarum ecclesiis eâ—us diutiùs insultarent the Iewes insulted ouer the Christian Church for their false translations of the Scriptures for the auoiding whereof he protesteth it was that he tooke that paines to learne the Hebrew tongue that he might himselfe more perfectly translate them and so d Idem Praefat. in Iosue Dolere Iudaeosquòd calumniandi eis irridendi Christianos sit ablata occasio take from them all occasion to calumniate and mocke the Christians Will our Iudaizing Iesuite heereupon say of all the time before that there could be no goodnesse in their faith that it was built vpon an euill foundation that their Bibles were naught because there were so great defaults in their translations What had so many Churches beleeued in vaine so many Martyrs and Confessours suffered persecution and death for a faith of which they had no certaine or assured ground But to come somewhat neerer to him when Hierom had more perfectly translated the Scriptures his translation grew in the Latin Church to bee much respected and hath beene since in speciall name aboue any other The Councell of Trent hath decreed that that translation if at least it be that which now carieth his name wherof there is iust cause to doubt e Concil Trident sess 4. c. 2. shall stand for authenticall and good in all publike lectures disputations preachings expoundings and that no man vpon any pretence shall presume to reiect it Yet of that translation it is confessed by f See D. Rainolds Thes 5. § 30. where he citeth Budaeus Valla sir T. Moore acknowledging so much in the new Testament Pagnine Galatinus and Masius in the old Isidorus Clarius Andradius and Arias Montanus in both sundry the most learned of his side that there are many defaults and slippes wherein the interpreter hath swarued both from the words and from the right and true meaning of the holy Ghost Yea into that translation there were also crept by neglect manie grosse corruptions acknowledged by themselues and therfore g Biblia excusa Romae anno domini 1590.92.93 reformed first by Sixtus Quintus and afterward by Clement the eighth such as whereby the meaning of the text in many places was wholly altered And will this cauilling Sophister giue vs leaue to conclude heereof that there hath beene all the while that those errors and corruptions haue continued no goodnesse in the faith of their church of Rome that their Bibles by themselues haue been condemned for naught that their religion hath beene built vpon an euill foundation because there haue beene errors and imperfections in their translations of the Scriptures If hee thinke that this is no argument against them we must needs thinke him to be that that he is that would go about to blinde simple men by such a cauillation against vs. For thy better satisfaction gentle Reader thou maiest consider that translations of the Scriptures are the same to the Church as are glasse-windowes to a house The glasse neuer yeeldeth the light altogether so cleere as it commeth immediately from the Sun and the interleadding of it hindereth that there is not fully and thorowout a perfect transparence of the light and yet it giueth light so as serueth abundantly for the discerning of euery thing and for the directing and doing all the businesse of the house Euen so translations can neuer so cleerely and fully expresse the things that are translated as they are to be seene immediately in the originall from whence they are deriued By the vnperfect apprehension of the translatours it commeth to passe that they haue their ouersights as it were traces and barres of lead thorow which the light of the originall text perfectly shineth not which notwithstanding doe compact and hold together the body of the text as it were the glasse thorow which the Sunne of righteousnesse most comfortably shineth vnto vs and by which we haue vndoubted and certaine direction for the whole worke and seruice of the house of God There is in euerie language some special proprietie the grace and significancy whereof no other language by any industrie of the translator can atteine vnto There are in the originals but specially in the Hebrew tongue many words of doubtfull and diuers significations of which it is very hard manie times to say which best fitteth to expresse the meaning of the place Sometimes though the signification of the words be knowen yet the phrase and composition breedeth ambiguitie of translation By this meanes the wordes being subiect to diuers constructions one interpreteth them one way another another way and neither can controll other because it is hard to say which is the truest way Yea S. Aust doubteh not to say that h Aug. de dect Christ li. 3. cap. 27. Certè dei spiritus etiam ipsam alteram sententiam occursuraÌ„ lectori vel auditorisine dubitatione praeuidit imò vt occurreret quia ipsa est veritate subnixa prouidit Nam quid in diuinis eloquijs potuit largius wherius prouideri quam vt eadem verba pluribus intelligantur modis c. the holy Ghost for more large and plentifull instruction did not onely foresee but prouide that of the same words diuers meanings might be made which notwithstanding both or all should bee agreeable to the truth But there are furthermore many allusions many allegories many prouerbiall and figuratiue speeches the reasons whereof are not alwaies easily discerned and therfore they are coniectured diuers waies Sometimes it falleth out that the words of themselues seeme to the translatour to leane one way and the expositour seeth that by the drift and intendement of the text they are to goe another By these and other occasions translatours according to the gifts that God hath giuen them vse their iudgements diuersly one seeing that which another seeth not
et graues viros reformidat hic noster clerus Now is piety and religion waxen very cold I will not say barefooted but hauing on their hose and buskins they scant vouchsafe to kneele downe to pray They weepe not as they goe or whilest the Sacrifie is in hand but they laugh and that impudently euen of them I speak whom their purple robes make more eminent than others They sing not the hymnes for that seemeth too base a matter but they tell iests and tales to make one another laugh What should I say any more the more pratling and wanton a man is so much the more commendation hath he in this corruption of maners This Clergie of ours is afraid of staid and graue men Now if the Clergy of Rome be such M. Bishop I trow of his courtesie will beare with vs if some such vngracious and retchlesse people be found amongst vs. The best is he is not present to see any such matter and therfore vpon his owne surmise may be likly to tel a lie If he were present in our cōgregations specially in townes cities I doubt not but he should see examples enow of them who say of the Church as Iacob did of Bethel h Gen. 28.16.17 How fearefull is this place this is no other but the house of God and this is the gate of heauen surely the Lord is in this place and therefore addresse themselues as Cornelius did when he was to heare the preaching of Peter i Act. 10.33 We are all heerepresent before God to heare all things that are commanded thee of God Concerning the place where our diuine seruice is said he asketh If goodly stately Churches had not beene built to their hands by men of our religion in what simple cotes trow you would their key-cold denotion haue beene content to serue their Lord And why their Lord What M. Bishop is he not your Lord as well as ours But it is true indeede that you haue another Lord whom you haue stiled k Extrauag Ioan. 22. Cum inter in glossa Dominus deus noster papa Our Lord God the Pope and must we thinke that your seruice is done to him But if we had had no other but simple cotes wherein to serue God we suppose our deuotion should haue beene as well accepted as in goodly and stately Churches The time was when the Apostles and first Christians did serue God in simple cotes and in the times of l Arnob. cont gent. lib. 6. Origen contra Cel. l. 3. 7. Arnobius and Origen the Pagans vpbraided them with the want of stately Churches and yet M. Bishop I thinke will not say but that they serued God as religiously as now they doe in the church of Rome Stately Temples as they are sometimes the fruits of true deuotion so they are sometimes matters of ambitious ostentation and sometimes the dotages of abominable superstition Herod the King euen hee that would haue murthered our Sauiour when hee was but new borne to shew his roialty and magnificence and to gaine fauour of the Iewes builded m Ioseph Antiquit Iuda◠li. 15. c. 14. the Temple of Ierusalem most gloriously and farre more neerely to the paterne of Salomons Temple than when after the captiuity they restored it the second time so as that we see the Disciples in the Gospell admiring n Mar. 13.1 Luk. 21 5. the goodly stones and buildings of it Origen mentioneth o Origen cont Cels li. 3. Splendida sana cum lucis templa cum vestibulis porticibus eximia magnitudine atque pulchritudine mirandis introgressus autem videbit adorari felem aut simiam c. the goodly Chapels and Temples of the Aegyptians with thier entries and porches admirable for thier maruellous greatnesse and fairenesse into which when yee were come yee should see them worship a cat or an ape or a crocodile or a goat or a dogge The Temple p Act. 19.27 of Diana was a most goodly thing and renowmed thorow the whole world And surely what M. Bishop now saith to vs the same might the Pagans haue said to our forefathers when they were first Christians They might haue asked them in what simple cotes they would haue serued Christ if men of their religion had not builded to their hands goodly Temples which by q Greg li. 9. ep 71. Fana idolorum in eadem gente aestrui minin è debent c. si fana eadem benè constructa sunt necesse est vt à cultu dae monum in obsequium veri dei debeant commutari Gregories aduice were turned to Christian Churches as in other places also r Lib. 2. indict 11. ep 19. Loca quondam execrandu erroribus deputata in Catholicae religionis reuerentiam dedicare he signifieth they did the like Now if Pagans in this respect were not inferiour to Papists then it is not to be a question by whom Churches were built but by whom they are rightly vsed By whomsoeuer they were built we now vse them for the exercise of true religion to the glory of God neither is our religion so cold in the setting forward of good workes but that whether by collections or otherwise wee maintaine and vphold both Church and steeple thankes be to God to that vse and we hope shall so doe to their griefe and sorrow vntill the worlds end Neither is it any disgrace to our times that collections are now generally made to such ends and purposes but rather a commendation that so many are now found so ready to contribute to such acts of piety which M. Bishop will haue vs thinke were done in former times only by some few The widowes ſ Mar 12.42 two mites were more with God than the great offerings of the rich men and we hope that the small helpes which we seuerally giue according to our ability for the maintenance of Gods seruice are as well accepted with God as the magnificence of them who out of their abundance and superfluity haue performed so great acts thēselues alone These mites being put together doe that thankes be to God that is necessary to be done and I thinke it is more than M. Bishop can iustifie that they did not in those times wherof he speaketh vse such general collections for the doing of the like things Whether they did or not it skilleth not we know that t Exo. 35.5.21 the Tabernacle of God was built in effect by such collections and God promised to dwell in it and we doubt not but he is also present with vs in our Tabernacles which by such meanes are mainteined to serue him To be short that they by whom churches were built since the faith of Christ heere receiued were all of their religion is but a vaine presumption of M. Bishop and a meere vntruth as in part hath beene declared u Answer to the Epistle sect 31.36 before and heereafter if God will vpon another occasion shall
Crucifix be but Christs armes why doe they worship the Crucifix b See of Images sect 14. as Christ himselfe Were it not a thing absurd for a man to giue the Kings honour to the Kings armes We haue therefore pulled downe the Crucifix as being made an Idoll and worshipped in stead of Christ and in place therof for the ornament of our Churches we haue set vp the Kings armes as being the defender of the faith of Christ But we haue taught that it is against Gods commandement to set vp in Churches any such Images as are in the Kings armes But therein he saith vntruly for we haue alwaies taught that the commandements of the first table concerne matter of religion and deuotion and require the same to be performed to God only The second commandement therefore condemneth all Images that are made or set vp for exercise of religion but historicall and ciuill vse of Images it condemneth not neither doth he finde any one of vs so to expound it as generally to forbid the making of any Image as he hath before vnderstood by our consent set down by M. Perkins in the beginning of that question Further he questioneth out of his sweet womanly deuotion is it not a pitifull blindnesse to thinke that the pictures of Lions and Libberts doe better become the house of God than the Image of his owne Sonne and of his faithfull seruants But doth his wisdome thinke that Salomon was blinde when he made in the Temple of God the pictures and Images of Lions and Buls of Flowers and Palme-trees and made no Images of Abraham Isaac Iacob and other holy men that were before him It was neuer seene but in times notoriously condemned c See of Images sect 17. for Idolatry that euer the Image of any man was set vp in the Temple of God and is not this poore man in a pitifull case that holdeth all those iust and righteous Fathers that liued in those times to haue beene but blinde men because they would not be partakers of his folly They are therefore such wise men as hee himselfe is that make the collection that he doth but as for vs we yeeld such honour and seruice to our Prince as God requireth vs to do not setting vp our Prince in the place of God as they do the Pope but obeying him vnder God and for Gods sake whom God hath placed ouer vs and who seeketh no otherwise to gouerne vs but by the word of God 22. W. BISHOP I come now to the men that are elected to serue the Lord there Be not many of them for the whole corps I will not touch such as Ieroboam was glad to choose when he made a Schisme in Israel to wit de extremis populi qui non erant de filijs Leui not lawfull successors of the true Priests but others of the baser sort of the people and them commonly that are notable either for ignorance or some other odde qualitie and must they not also fill their good patrons hands with some feeling commoditie before they can get a benefice And so beginning with simonie linked with periurie for the poore fellowes must neuerthelesse sweare that they come freely to their benefice are they not like to proceed on holily As for the vow of chastitie the daily seruice and often fasting which Catholike Priests are bound vnto they by the sweet libertie of the new Gospell doe exchange into solacing themselues with their yoke-fellowes this of the common sort of their Ministers With their preachers I will not meddle for feare of offence yet if any desire to know how they behaue themselues in other countries they may read the censure of a zealous learned preacher one of their owne companions who amongst many other things writeth thus of them Menno l. de Christ fide titul de fide mulieris Cananeae When you come to preachers who bragge that they haue the word of God you shall finde certaine of them manifest liars others drunkards some vsurers and foule-mouthed slanderers some persecutours and betraiers of harmelesse persons How some of them behaue themselues and by what meanes they get their wiues and what kinde of wiues they haue that I leaue to the Lord and them They liue an idle slothfull and voluptuous life by fraud and flattery they feed themselues of the spoiles of Antichrist he meaneth the benefices taken from the Papists and doe Preach iust as the earthly and carnall Magistrate desireth to heare and will permit c. So much and not a little more speaketh one great Master of the late refermation concerning his Euangelicall brethren Are not these goodly lampes of the new Gospell and likely persons to be chosen by Christ to giue light to others and to reforme the worldâ— But peraduenture they haue in some secret corners certaine deuout religious soules who in an austere retired life doe with continuall teares bewaile the sinnes of the rest and make incessant sute vnto the Almighty for a generall pardon of the whole Would to God they had but I feare me that they be of their inuisible congregatiâ—o or rather none such to be found amongst them For those neligious houses which our Ancesters had built for such godlyrand vertuous people who forsaking both father mother all their kinne and acquaintance and flying from all the pleasures and preferments which this transitorie world could yeeld them gaue themselues wholly to the holy exercises of humilitie chastitie pouertie and all sorts of mortification these Monasteries I say and all that professed in them a retired religious life the Protestants haue beaten downe and banished and haue not in their places erected any other for the singular godly men or women of their religion Which doth most euidently argue that there is in them small zeale and rare practise of any such extraordinary piety and deuotion Surely it must needes be a strange Christian congregation that holdeth them for no tollerable members of their common-weale whom Christ specially chuseth to serue him day and night and by whose holy example and most feruent praiers all other Christians do finde themselues much edified and mightily protected So that briefly whether you consider the persons that serue God or the place where hee is serued or the manner of his diuine sernice the Catholike religion doth in euery point surpasse the Protestant by many degrees Thus much in answer vnto Master PERKINS obiection of Atheisme against vs the which I esteemed fittest for this Preface being a matter of so great moment and therefore most worthy to be examined and considered of apart with mature iudgement Now to the rest of his questions according to his owne order R. ABBOT There hath beene an old fable of a Plutarth de curiositate Lamia a Witch who alwaies when she was at home put vp her eies in a box remained blind but when she was to go abroad she would alwaies put her eies in her head that shee might see
the greatest number were Italians they deserued for the most part rather to bee accounted a heard of swine than a Councell of learned men His reason that the principall points of Poperie cannot bee against the grounds of the Catechisme because the same is expounded by the decree and order of that Councell maketh as much for vs as it doth for them For the Catechisme is by order expounded and taught by vs wee open to the people the Creed the ten Commandements the Lords Praier the doctrine of Sacraments M. Bishop therefore doth amisse to say that our religion is opposite to those old grounds of true religion If this argument auaile not for vs then neither shall it auaile for him but wee are still at libertie to conceiue that notwithstanding their expounding of those grounds they teach points of doctrine contrary thereunto And indeed that expounding of theirs was no otherwise begun but in emulation of our doings in that kinde for vntill it pleased God to stirre vp the spirits of some of our men to endeuour the reformation of the Church and to that end to bring the people so much as in them lay out of the thraldome of blindnesse and ignorance wherein they were then holden the vse of Catechisme was quite abolished out of the Church the people knew neither the Creed nor the Lords praier but onely that they spake them like a charme in a strange and vnknowen tongue But when they saw vs recalling them to the ancient order of Catechising and thereby training them to the knowledge of God and of faith towards him they held it necessarie for the satisfaction of the world that they themselues should make some shew of doing the like and thereupon in the Councell of Trent tooke order for a Catechisme to bee published though they neuer meant to make any great vse of it but onely where necessitie should enforce them for the countermining of our labours and the staying of manie whom otherwise the desire of learning and of the knowledge of God would haue caried away from them Into that Catechisme and the rest of theirs how they haue foisted in matters of faith and doctrine which the old expositours of the Catechisme neuer knew nor haue deliuered wee shall somewhat perceiue by examining the processe and particulars of this booke In the meane time we answer M. Bishop that it is verie credible and ready enough to be beleeued of them that are carefull to vnderstand it that the church of Rome albeit while it continued sound in the faith all ancient Churches and holy Fathers did desire to agree with it yet since being gon out of her * The church of Rome hath swaiued from the tradition of the Apostles ancient way doth indeed crosse and destroy those principles of religion which formerly haue beene agreed vpon by all Churches For whereas hee saith that that church hath been euer most diligent to obserue all Apostolical traditions it is a stale iest Bellarmine himselfe perforce acknowledgeth it to bee a lie For it being manifest by the testimonie of Anacletus an ancient Bishop of Rome that c De consecrat dist 2. cap. Peracta Peracta consecratione communicent omnes qui nolin◠eccleasisticis carere liminibus sic enim Apostoli statuerunt sancta Romana tenet ecclesia the Apostles decreed and the church of Rome then obserued that they should be excommunicate whosoeuer were present after consecration and did not receiue the Communion Bellarmine in the behalfe of the now-church of Rome reiecteth the same as a thing d Bellarm. de Missa lib. 2. ca. 10. Cortum est decreta ista quae sine dubio non diuini sed humani iuris erant si ad populum pertinebant progressis temporis abrogata fuisse in processe of time abrogated by the church being but a matter of humane only constitutiō decree So likewise we see in the Councel of Cōstance acknowledging that e Concil Const sess 13. Licèt Christus post coenam instituerit discipulis suis administranerit sub vtraque specie panis vini hoc venerabile Sacramentum tamen hoc non obstante c. Et similitèr quòd licèt in primitiua ecclesia huiusmodi Sacramentum à fidelibus reciperetur sub vtraque specie tamen haec consuetudo ad euitandum aliqua scandala pericula est rationabilitèr introducta quòd à laicis tantummodo sub specie panis suscipiatur c. vnde pro lege habenda est c. Christ administred the holy Sacrament to his disciples vnder both kindes and that in the Primitiue Church it was so receiued of the faithfull and yet this notwithstanding they decree it for a law that lay men shall receiuc only in one kinde Now when thus with our eies we see and they themselues tell vs the contrary will M. Bishop notwithstanding tell vs that the Church of Rome hath been euer most diligent to obserue all Apostolicall traditions Surely if they had failed but in these two they had not obserued al but now how many other things are there wherein they haue apparantly swarued from the example of the Apostles How then can we beleeue M. Bishop any further who doubteth not heere to affirme so grosse and manifest vntruth And to this vntruth he addeth another when hee saith that we slander all churches since the time of the Apostles with some corruption or other It is true that we note the corruptions of some churches and of some men accordingly as the history of the Church and the monuments of antiquity doe lay the same foorth vnto vs but wee cannot say that al Churches or al the Fathers of those times were guiltie of those corruptions For many Churches were there and many Bishops and Pastours of Churches of whom no memoriall is come vnto vs many whom we finde otherwise reported of than was true by the corrupting of those writings which they left vnto the Church and suborning other counterfets in their stead many who haue deliuered some exorbitant opinions of which notwithstanding it appeareth not that they had publike approbation in the Church many who haue left so little in record as touching points of faith as that it is hard by them to esteeme what the doctrine of the Church was As for the corruptions whereof we speake there are many of them such as that I doe not thinke M. Bishop to be so impudent but that hee will acknowledge the same as well as we there are none of them but that either by the word of God or by like warrant of antiquity we prooue them to be such as we report them His other tale that we hold no kinde of Apostolicall traditions to be necessary he himselfe knoweth to be vntrue because he knoweth that we receiue the Creede as necessarie which he saith came by tradition from the Apostles It hath beene also f Of Traditions sect 4. before giuen him to vnderstand that we reiect
not Apostolical traditions which appeare certainely so to be and yet woorthily we reiect those vnwritten doctrines and counterfet traditions of the Papists which are falsely fathered vpon the Apostles It is by these vnwritten doctrines and counterfet traditions that the grounds of our faith are impeached and shaken We therefore cannot be said to shake the grounds of faith who retaine the meere simplicity of those grounds and refuse all other strange and bastard stuffe but they shake the grounds of faith who become patrons of such tradition coloured with the names of the Apostles when notwithstanding they plainely crosse the written doctrine of the Apostles 2. W. BISHOP But let vs descend to the particulars wherein the truth will appeare more plainely Thus beginneth Master PERKINS with the Creede First of all it must be considered that some of the principall doctrines beleeued in the Church of Rome are that the Bishop of Rome is the Vicar of Christ and head of the Catholike Church that there is a fire of Purgatory that Images of God and Saints are to be placed in the Church and worshipped that Praier is to be made to Saints departed that there is a propitiatory sacrifice daily offered in the Masse for the sinnes of the quicke and the dead These points are of that moment that without them the Roman religion cannot stand c. And yet marke the Apostles Creed which hath beene thought to containe all necessary points of religion to be beleeued and hath therefore beene called the key and rule of faith This Creede I say hath not any of these points nor the expositions made thereof by the ancient Fathers nor any other Creed or confession of faith made by any Councell or Church for the space of many hundred yeeres This is a plaine proofe to any indifferent man that these bee new articles of faith neuer knowen in the Apostolike Church and that the Fathers and Councels could not finde any such articles of faith in the bookes of the old and new Testament Answer is made that all these points of doctrine are beleeued vnder the article I beleeue the Catholike Church the meaning whereof they will haue to be this I beleeue all things which the Catholike Church holdeth and teacheth to be beleeued If this bee as they say wee must beleeue in the Church that is put our confidence in the Church for the manifestation and the certainety of all doctrine necessary to saluation And thus the eternall truth of God the Creatour shall depend vpon the determination of the creature And the written word of God in this respect is made insufficient as though it had not plainely reuealed all points of doctrine pertaining to saluation And the ancient Churches haue beene farre ouer-secene that did not propound the former points to be beleeued as articles of faith but left them to these latter times Thus farre Master PERKINS Wherein are hudled vp many things confusedly I will answere briefly and distinctly to euery point The first is that in the Apostles Creede are contained all points of religion necessary to be beleeued which is most apparantly false as the Protestants themselues must needes confesse or else grant that it is not necessary to beleeue the King to be Supreame-head of the Church or that the Church is to be gouerned by Bishops or that we are iustified by Christs iustice imputed to vs or that there be but two Sacraments or that the Church seruice must be said in the vulgar tongue or that all things necessary to be beleeued to saluation are contained in the Scriptures To be short not one article of their religion which is contrary to ours is conteined in this Creede of the Apostles therefore to affirme as he doth all necessary points of religion to be contained in this Creede is to cast their owne religion flat to the ground and to teach that not one point of it is to be beleeued this Creede may neuerthelesse be called the key and rule of faith because it containeth the principall points of the Christian religion and doth open as it were the doore vnto all the rest and guide a man certainely vnto the knowledge of them by teaching vs to beleeue the Catholike Church which being the pillar and ground of truth 1. Tim. 3.15 Ioh. 16.13 directed and guided by the spirit of truth will alwaies instruct her obedient children in all truth necessary to saluation Then saith M. PERKINS The eternall truth of God the Creatour shall depend on the determination of the creature Nothing lesse for Gods truth is most sincere and certaine in it selfe before any declaration of the church but we poore creatures that are subiect to mistaking and error should not so certainely vnderstand and know that truth of God vnlesse hee had ordained and appointed such a skilfull and faithfull Mistris and interpreter to assure vs both what is his word and what is the true meaning of it Like as pure gold is not made perfect in it self by the Gold-smithes touch-stone but other men are thereby assured that it is true and pure gold euen so the word of God doth not borrow his truth from the Church but the true children of God are by the holy Church assured which is the same his word If we did hold as we do not that the written word containeth all points of doctrine necessary to saluation yet were it most necessary to relie vpoÌ„ the Catholike churches declaration both to be assured which books of scriptures be Canonicall which not whereupon Saint Augustine a man of far better iudgement than any of these daies said Con. Epist. Iud. cap. 5. that he would not beleeue the Gospel vnlesse the authority of the church mooued him therunto as also to vnderstand them truly because the words of holy Scripture without the true meaning and sense of them do but deceiue men and lead them into error and to that end haue alwaies beene and yet are by Heretikes abused to draw others after them into destruction The like may be said of other ancient Creeds and confessions of faith which holding the Apostles Creed did adde some few points vnto it namely such as were in those daies called into question by Heretikes of greater fame and who were followed of many not touching in particular diuers other articles generally beleeued of all true Christians or else by soâ—e fewe and obscure men onely questioned Wherefore to argue that no other points of faith are to be beleeued but such as are expressed in ancient Creeds is to cut off a great part of our faith Lastly it is most vntrue to say that those ancient Fathers and Councels knew not of these articles of faith by him mentioned for they haue most plainely taught them in their writings yea and expresly condemned of heresie most of the contrary positions now againe reuiued and holden by the Protestants as in those seuerall questions I haue before prooued R. ABBOT How M. Pirkins vnderstood that all necessary
in it euen as the badde may not abide it R. ABBOT The Protestants doe so well indure to heare the words of Gods spirit as that they haue made speciall choise therof as the principall weapon wherewith to fight against the superstitions and abominations of the Papists Whose absurd dotage as many other waies so in their Aue-Marie most notably appeareth in that of a salutation to the virgin Marie being present they haue made an inuocation of her being absent and thinke it a matter of great merit and deuotion to vse it like a charme by saying it ouer thus or thus many times at once which the Angell spake but once M. Bishop allegeth for it the old Catechismes but he neither telleth vs what Catechismes he meaneth nor how old they are which if he had we should easily haue descried the vanity of his speech For if by old Catechismes he meane as he should the Catechismes of the ancient fathers and primitiue Church he is therein found a liar because in those Catechismes there is nothing of it But if by old Catechisms he meane any that haue beene of latter times vnder the darknesse of Popery he abuseth his Reader who in case of Religion looketh for satisfaction euen from the first age because what was not then a part of religion can be no part of religion now the truth of Christ being one and the same from the beginning and for euer The words he saith are the words of the holy ghost and so say we but we say that the words of the holy ghost may be abused as here they are against the purpose and meaning of the holy Ghost They are the words of the holy Ghost which Christ vsed to the Apostles a Luk. 24.25 Fooles and slow of heart to beleeue all that the Prophets haue spoken and will M. Bishop therfore say that we may vse those words for inuocation of the Apostles He allegeth againe that it is prophecied that all generations should call the virgin Mary blessed and we deny it not but we may call her blessed in the meditations of our own hearts and in speaking of her to them that heare vs though we speake not idlely as to her that heareth vs not Be it that the words were composed by the Archangell penned by the Euangelists commended to the reading of all good Christians as other words of scriptures are be it that the sense of them is most comfortable vnto vs yet what is all this to prooue that these words are to bee vsed for a deuotion and seruice to the virgin Mary specially in such sort as Popery hath vsed them in a strange and vnknowen tongue which could yeeld no comfort of the sense nor remembrance thereby of the incarnation of Christ nor perfourmance of thanksgiuing or congratulation towards God That purest antiquity which he allegeth is but corrupt nouelty and leud forgery The Liturgies of Basill and Chrysostome are very falsly so termed and yet in Basils Liturgie there is no mention of the Aue-Mary Of Chrysostomes Liturgie there are so many different copies published one by Leo Tuscus another by Erasmus another by Pelargus who also testifieth that hee hath seen a fourth as that if Chrysostome did leaue any yet no man is able to say of any of them that this is it The sermon of Athanasius in Euangel de Deipara is by b Nann epist nuncupatoria praefixa oper Athanasij In tertiam classem relegaui omnes supposititios libros quos Athanasij non puto Nannius their own translatour put amongst the ranke of bastards and counterfets The name of Deipara was not so famous in the time of Athanasius as to be prefixed in the title of a sermon neither could it haue wanted memorable testimony in the councell of Ephesus if it had been then knowen for his Ephrems works as c Hieron in Catalog script ecclesiast Multa syro sermone composuit Hierome saith were written in the Syrian tongue If M. Bishop can shew them in the same tongue yea or ancientlie translated into the Greeketongue we can giue the better credit that they are his indeed Otherwise we know that they haue been in hucksters handling neither can we but be suspicious of that iugling and foisting which we finde to haue been so vsuall and common with them And if M. Bishop will haue vs to take it for Ephrems worke let him tell vs who is the translatour of it Gerardus Vossius who translated and published the works of Ephrem by the warrant of Pope Sixtus the fift whereas he putteth his name to so many as hee translated putteth no name to the Sermon which M. Bishop citeth shewing thereby that it is not in Greeke and therefore importing it to be a counterfeit He saith that these can with no more reason be denied to be theirs then the rest of their works But I answer him that though there were no other reason yet it is sufficient reason for vs to bee suspicious of these because in them some things are set downe whereof in the rest of their vndoubted workes and in the infinite volumnes of antiquitie which are approoued and acknowledged there is no token to be found As for Bernand he liued in latter times of great apostasie and corruption In that truth which he reteined he is a good witnesse for vs against them but hee can be no witnesse for them to make good those corruptions which hee drew from the time wherein he liued And yet neither is his testimonie cited out of any of his owne works but from another I know not whom and therefore is the lesse to be regarded to say nothing that the speech is ridiculous and fond for why should wee imagine that the Angels triumph and the heauens congratulate that the earth leapeth for ioy and hell trembleth at the deuout saying of the Aue-Mary more then when wee say deuoutly Our Father which art in heauen c Surely good Christians will reiect such absurd dotages and idle dreames though with bad Christians al is fish that commeth to net and what custome offereth they are readie to entertaine neuer regarding to consult with the word of Christ for warrant of that they doe 47. W. BISHOP Now let vs come to the last part of the Catechisme which is of the Sacraments where M. PER. doth briefly repeat his arguments vsed before against the reall presence I might therefore send the Reader vnto the first Chapter of this booke for the answer but because the matter is of great importance I will heere againe giue them a short answer First saith hee the reall presence is ouerthrowne out of these words hee tooke bread and brake it ergo that which Christ tooke was not his bodie c. A simple ouerthrow Christ indeed tooke and brake bread but presently after blessing it made it his body by these words this is my bodie R. ABBOT I might send the Reader saith M. Bishop vnto the first chapter of this booke for the
he hath promised euen as hee who hath receiued a seale presumeth that thereby hee hath in effect the thing that is sealed vnto him And shall a man say that Christ in giuing vs this seale hath bequeathed to vs no other but a figure a signification or representation of somwhat and not the thing it selfe that is represented thereby If it be absurd to say so in humane testaments and wils what meaneth M. Bishop to transferre such an absurditie to those things that are diuine I need not stand vpon this matter I say briefly that it is idle to say that the Sacrament is the chiefest legacie that Christ hath bestowed vpon vs. He hath bequeathed vnto vs himselfe the fruit of his passion the riches of his grace the inheritance of eternall life which hee will vndoubtedly giue to euerie true beleeuer and in the meane time hath giuen his Sacrament to bee to our faith the pledge and assurance thereof And thus M. Bishop telleth vs that he is come at length to the end of his booke wherein I ghesse he hath taken small ioy because he hath quite left out the middle euen whole twelue questions handled by M. Perkins and which he notwithstanding pretendeth to haue answered as hath beene before obserued We are beholding to him for that he giueth vs leaue if any thing heerein bee amisse to impute it partly to his slender skill ouersight or negligence And surely what betwixt his slender skill one way and his ouersight and negligence another way he hath sent vs so many things amisse as that the Reader hath small cause heereby to bee confirmed in that which he by a wrong name calleth the true Catholike faith Thou hast gentle Reader what hee can say on the one side thou hast what I haue had to answer on the other side it is now left to thee to iudge of both which so doe as being thy selfe to giue answer of thy iudgement to Christ the Iudge of all AN ADVERTISEMENT for the time concerning Doctor Bishops Reproofe lately published against a little peece of the Answer to his Epistle Dedicatory to the King With an answer to some few exceptions taken against the same by M. TH. HIGGONS lately become a Proselyte of the Church of Rome 1 THou maiest well remember gentle Reader that it was full three yeeres in February last since I published an answer to Doctor Bishops Epistle to the Kings Maiesty whom he had thereby solicited to entertaine the now-Romane religion pretending many great and waighty reasons that it should be expedient and necessary for him so to doe Wherein how vnfaithfully and vndutifully he demeaned himselfe towards his liege and Soueraigne Lord seeking by false glosses and colours very trecherously to abuse him I was carefull in the said answer to make it plainly to appeare for the satisfaction of all who in that behalfe were desirous to be satisfied With what conscience of fidelity and truth I haue carried my selfe in all that businesse from the beginning hitherto it is knowen to God who shall be both M. Bishops Iudge and mine and doth appeare to them who without preiudice or forstalled opinion doe take knowledge of the cause betwixt him and me That to M. Bishop himselfe it seemeth not so it is no wonder because by ouerstudying himselfe in the schooles of Rome he is growen squint-eied and can see nothing aright or rather hood-winketh himselfe that he may not see that which indeed he doth see By reason whereof it commeth to passe with him as in the like case with the rest of his consort which Saint Augustine said of the Donatists long agoe a August con epist Parmen lib. 1. cap. 7. Cum eos obmutescere compellit veritas tamen silere non permittit iniquitas Though truth compelleth them to be dumbe yet iniquity suffereth them not to be silent They see themselues ouermastred in the cause but a state they haue to maintaine and somewhat they must say for it whether it be right or wrong From this iniquity it hath proceeded that M. Bishop though conuicted in his conscience that the answer aforesaid was such as that howsoeuer in some things he might cauil at it yet in the maine he could not tell by any meanes how to contradict it yet that he might from his Romish masters receiue the thankes which vpon an infamous ouerthrow and losse of a whole army Terentius Varro receiued by the policy of the Romane senat b Liu Decad. 3. lib. 2 in fine Quòd de rep non desperasset For that he had not despaired of the state of their common-wealth he would make shew by writing some kind of reply be it what it might be to carry still a courage and no whit to distrust the quarrell that he had taken vpon him to defend This is the drift of his Reproofe which he hath lately published which goeth abroad amongst his complices vnder a name and with an applause that I am answered I am now answered as if he had made me some great answer whereas if wee respect them aine question and controuersie of religion saue onely that he hath giuen a snatch at one or two points by the way hee hath written whether it may be said he hath answered it resteth further to be considered onely to foure sections of my first booke the second third fourth and seuenth which he hath inched out with enlarging sundry retorsions and matters of discourse and diuers silly excuses and defences of the traiterous speeches and practises of himselfe and his confederates against the King and the State in answering the Epistle Dedicatory and Preface to the Reader and the first and thirty foure sections but the maine substance of the booke concerning the suggestions and motiues by him pleaded to peruert the King he hath by a figure of preterition quite let goe c Reproofe pag. 259. 286. remitting the points thereof to be handled ad calendas Graecas in their proper questions because hee was loth forsooth first lightly to skimme them ouer in hast as I had done and afterward to recoile and turne backe to them againe 2. But hee should haue remembred that hee wrot that Epistle to his Prince and Soueraigne where being charged to haue dealt perfidiously with his most excellent Maiesty and to haue very leaudly attempted to abuse him with many falsehoods and lies with many broken and lame conclusions and that he could not make good that which he had written he should haue thought that whatsoeuer became of the rest of his booke it concerned him in all loialty and duty to yeeld to his Maiesty a speciall and cleere iustification of that Epistle Againe he knew wel that there were many points handled by occasion of his Epistle which belong not to any question after ensuing and that the rest though handled other where yet being heere written to the King were to be answered by me and therefore maintained by him in the same nature wherein they were written
aduersary moued to let slip now and then a word or two Yea and let it be noted how one sweet pen-man in this case excuseth another M. Bishop his fellow Watson after that he had with all importunity and fury thorowout his whole booke of Quodlibets runne vpon the Iesuits e Answer to particulars against D. Bishop pag. 17. Sory I am saith he that to some blemish of his former vertues certaine bookes set out of late carry the letters of his name because the stile seemeth too sharp and some thing in them soundeth harshly in Catholike eares But to mitigate the matter the occasion of writing which time and place ministred must be duely considered and withall how he and others were before grieuously hurt in their reputation by the other party and that in defense of their honour they might lawfully discredit the iniurious aggressours Now if any man looke vpon me with the same eies wherewith M. Bishop looked vpon M. Watson he will easily see that the reputation and honour of our religion being so deeply touched and so many infamous aspersions being cast vpon our whole doctrine and ministery by his malicious and slanderous libell the zeale of truth and importunate impudencie of such an iniurious aggressour must needs wrest from me what spleene or passion I had to shew in the seruice of my Prince and in the cause of Iesus Christ And this I hope shall excuse me in this behalfe with all that are friends and welwillers to the cause in hand or if any take exception further I must say to him with the words of S. Bernard f Bern. in Cant. serm 12. Inhumanè corum redarguis opera quorum onera refugis temerariè obiurgat rirum de praelio reuertentem mulier nens in domo Thou dealest vngently to blame the doings of them whose burdens thou refusest it is rashnesse for the woman that sitteth spinning in the house to checke the souldier returning from the warre g Hieron Apolog ad Pammach Delicata doctrina est pugnanti ictus dictare de muro It is a daintie kinde of teaching saith Hierome to sit vpon the wall and to appoint the man in fight in what maner he shall strike Consider that thou art but as a beholder and looker on but I was as hee that felt the blowes and therefore do not maruell if I were more moued than thou yea esteeme of me in this businesse by the experience of thine owne affections in that that toucheth thine owne cause But I must needs heere intreate thee gentle Reader by the way to note how this sweet peÌ„-man carieth himselfe in that kind wherein he obiecteth so great fault to me The flowers of his speech are h Preface to his second part sect 10. Of the same accursed crue was Melancthon Caluin in his institutions to hell i Reproofe Pag. 50. craking impudencie and impudent craking k Pag. 64. a vaine craking iangler and notorious liar l Pag. 211. deuoid of all good conscience honest dealing m Pag. 264 past all shame and worthy to be thrust into an Asses skin n Pag. 272. base and bastardly minded Ministers o Pag. 283. cosening companions false hypocrites most impudent liars p Pag. 281. the spirit that possesseth his heart to wit the father of all lies q Pag. 283. he that will be fed with lies let him take the diuell to his father and M. Abbot or some other such like of his lying Ministers to be his master Nay the terme of lying is nothing euery where and it is wonderfull to see what a rare dexterity he hath to multiply lies vpon me as for example fiue lies in a place where indeed there is no lie r Reproofe Pag. 83. A lie it is saith he that I denied to his Maiesty such authority as would serue for the taking order how God might be rightly serued in his Realm whereas my words are that he denieth to his Maiesty that supreme gouernment in causes ecclesiasticall whereby he should take vpon him so to doe which he so far denieth as that against this Å¿ Pag. 170. 171. c. Supremacy he hath said more than of any one matter thorowout his whole booke What authority he dreameth would otherwise serue so to do that to me is nothing Another lie it is saith he that the Popes lawes doe inhibit Princes to meddle with matters of religion whereas the law is plaine t Dist 96. Si imperator Ad Sacerdotes deus voluit quae ecclesiae disponen da sunt pertinere c. Non publicis legibus non a potestatibus seculi sed a Pontificibus sacerdotibus opus deus Christianae religionis voluit ordinari c. The ordering of matters for the Church God would haue to belong to Priests not to the secular powers not by publike lawes not by secular powers but by Popes and Priests would God haue the worke of Christian religion to be ordered u Sext. de haeret Quicunque Inhibemus ne cuiquam laica personae liceat publicè vel priuatim de fide Catholica disputare Qui contra fecerit excoÌ„municationis laqueo innodetur We forbid any lay person either publikely or priuately to dispute or reason concerning the Catholike faith he that doth so let him be excommunicated Againe he saith A third lie it is that I affirmed Kings to hold their crownes immediatly from God but that his foolery may the better appeare he adeth Which though it be true in that sense he taketh it yet it is false that I said so in that place for I meddle not with those termes of immediatly or mediatly So then he saith so but yet I lie in saying that he saith so because he saith not so in that place whereas notwithstanding I neither charge him with mediatly nor immediatly in that place but onely repeat his owne former words that of Gods meere grace and bounty Princes receiue and hold their diadems and princely scepters Yet againe The fourth lie is that the Pope denieth Princes to hold their Diadems and Princely authority immediatly from God but are to receiue them by his mediation whereas the Pope himselfe saith of the Emperour x Auent Annal lib. 6. Imper ator quod habet totum habet a nobis Ecce in potestate nostra est imperium vt deâ—â—us iâ—ud cui volumus propterea constituti à deo super gentes regna vt destruamus euellamus edificemus plantemus c. Ex epist Adriani 4. What he hath he hath it wholly of vs the Empire is in our power to giue it to whom we will being therefore appointed of God ouer nations and Kingdomes to destroy and to pull vp to build and to plant Which words I alledged vsed by y Bull a Pij 5. apud Sander de schism Anglic. Pius Quintus against Queene Elizabeth and applied generally to that purpose by the z Extrauag de maior
be but q Answer to the Epistle sect 12. pag. 103. 104. a fable of mine that Gregory the Bishop of Rome commended the zeale of Serenus Bishop of Massilia who could not endure that any thing should be worshiped that is made with hands or did tell him that he should forbid the people the worshipping of them But what will M. Bishop say that Gregory did Marry r Preface to the Reproofe pag. 8 he did not commend but reprehend the vndiscreet zeale of that Bishop who did breake some pictures set in the Church because some late conuerted heathens not yet well instructed in the Christian religion did adore them as if they had beene Gods Well let Gregory tell his owne tale and then doe thou gentle Reader iudge thereof Å¿ Greg. li. 7. ep 109. Indico dudum ad nos peruenisse quòd fraternità s vestra quosdam imaginum adoratores aspiciens easdem ecclesiae imagines confregit atque proiecit Et quidem zelum vos nequid manu factum adorari possit habuisse laudauimus sed frangere easdem imagines non debuisse iudicamus Iderirco enim pictura in ecclesiis adhibetur vt hi qui literas nesciunt saltem in parietibus videndo legant quae legere in codicibus non valent Tua ergò fraternitas illas seruare ab earum adoratu populum prohibere debuit quatenus literarum nescij haberent vnde scientiam historiae colligerent populus in picturae adoratione minimè peccaret I certifie you saith he to Serenus that it came of late to our hearing that your brotherhood beholding some worshipping images did breake the same Church-images and threw them away And surely I commended you that you had that zeale that nothing made with hands should be worshipped but yet I iudge that you should not haue broken those images for therefore is the picture vsed in the church that they who are not learned by booke may yet by sight read vpon the wals those things which they cannot read in bookes Therefore your brotherhood should both preserue the images and forbid the people the worshipping of them that both the ignorant may haue whence to gather the knowledge of the history and the people may not sinne in the worshipping of the picture In the other epistle written of the same matter he wisheth Serenus t Idem li. 9. ep 9. Conuocandi sunt dispersi ecclesiae filij eisque Scripturae sacrae est testimonijs ostendendum quia omne manufactum adorare non liceat quoniam scriptum est Dominum deum tuum adorabis illi soli seruies to gather together againe the Children of the Church who vpon offense of breaking those images had withdrawen themselues from him and to shew vnto them by testimonies of Scriptures that it is not lawfull to worship any thing that is made with hands because it is written Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him onely thou shalt serue Now compare the words of my answer with these words of Gregory and see whether I say any thing but what he saith Consider where thou maist finde those skiruie shifts of late conuerted heathens and of worshipping images as Gods seeing Gregory saith nothing of worshipping them as Gods but meerely and only of worshipping them affirming that worship by the testimony of scripture belongeth to God only Yea it is to be noted that M. Bishop himselfe confirmeth the same by the words of Gregory which he citeth but that I know not how he is blind and seeth not his owne way u Gregor ibid. Frangi non debuit quod non adorandum in ecclesiis sed ad instruendas solummodò menteâ— fuit nescientium collocatum Gregory saith he telleth him plainly that that should not be broken which was not set vp in the Church to be adored but onely to instruct the ignorant Marke what he saith only to instruct the ignorant Surely if they be set there to be worshipped then not onely to instruct the ignorant if onely to instruct the ignorant then they are not to be worshipped Therfore he absolutely opposeth the one to the other not to be adored but only to instruct the ignorant which cannot stand if it be true which M. Bishop saith that in any maner or meaning they be to be adored Yet he telleth vs that though S. Gregory forbid images to be adored as Gods yet doth he teach them to be worshipped as representations of most holy personages But how may this appeare Marry by his letters saith he to Secundinus to whom he sent the images of our Sauiour of the blessed Virgin Mary and of Peter and Paul It is true indeed that Secundinus sent to Gregory for the picture of Christ and Gregory sent it him signifying to him that his request did greatly please him because saith he thou louest him with all thy heart and whole intention whose image thou desirest to haue before thine eies Withall hee sent him those other pictures which M. Bishop speaketh of So then heere we haue pictures and images and thereof we make no scruple but we haue yet nothing for the worshipping of them For the affirming wherof M. Bishop heere very impudently abuseth his Reader by false translation For the words of Gregory are thus x Greg. lib. 7. ep 54 Scio quidem quòd imaginem saluatoris nostri non ideò petis vt quasi deum colas sed ob recordationem filij dei vt in eius amore recalescas cuius te imaginem videre consideras Et nos quidem non quasi ante diuinitatem ante illam prosternimur sed illuÌ„ adoramus quem per imaginem aut natum aut passum sed in throno sedentem recordamur dum nobis ipsa pictura quasi scriptura ad memoriam silium dei reducit animuÌ„ nostrum aut de resurrectione latificat aut de passione demulâ—et I know verily that thou doest not therefore desire the image of our Sauiour that thou maiest worship it as God but for a remembrance of the sonne of God that thou maiest become feruent in his loue whose image thou considerest thy selfe to behold And we verily fall not downe before it as before the Godhead but we worship him whom by the image we remember either as borne or hauing suffered or now sitting vpon his throne And whilest the picture as it were a writing bringeth to our remembrance the Sonne of God either it reioyceth our minde as touching his resurrection or appeaseth it by his passion Now wheras Gregory saith We doe not fall downe or cast downe our selues before it as before the Godhead M. Bishop readeth We doe cast downe our selues before the said Image not as before a Godhead And so he vnderstandeth the former words Thou worshippest the image but thou doest not worship it as a God taking the particle as to import a distinction of the variety of worship which is onely an exemplification of the propriety thereof For Gregory hath no