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A67840
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A friendly conference between the suffering saints for conscience-sake, the Jacobites, met together at the --- Tavern particularly R.L., R.F. and A.S., my Lord Bp. of Salisbury (promised to be so by K. James when he returns) and other precious ones there assembled at least to consult about and read prayers for the dethroning of the best of kings and restoration of the worst : with a postscript concerning a late declaration of Mr. Lobb and others against Crispionism.
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Trepidantium Malleus.
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1699
(1699)
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Wing Y80A; ESTC R26417
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18,240
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33
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Plato c. and pructis'd also of late by others besides Mr. Pool against Papists c. R. L. Hang the Church of England I was hastning to the Church of Rome as fast as I could but I broke my Shins by the way the Prince of Orange trig'd me and many more For my part I cannot believe any be such Fools to die at a Stake or any other way for Religion that contrive King James his return No doubt he will bring a French Wheel with him R. F. In troth I think we are all of us too wet to burn But tell me in good earnest Roger Did you ever in the least doubt whether the Earl of Antrim had a Commission from King Charles the First for what he did in the Irish Rebellion Or whether King James had a hand in burning the City c. R. L. Do you think me mad to doubt it No no the worst was he had not countenanced a Massacre in England too and King James had not burnt more Cities than one But what say the Phanaticks of us now R. F. They admire Providence that hath made us at last by our practice to justify them We are now the Dissenters and refuse to come to Common Prayer in the Steeple houses for so we may now call them because we like not a Prayer or two when they could not be excused that liked not one in the Book They say must we escape as we do who refuse to swear Allegiance to their King as no lawful one when they were in Goals for Noncompliance to Ceremonies tho they swore to our King They say what is true Now some of us have thrown up the Doctrine of Non-resistance as well as the new Bastard Church of England Others deny it to be any Work of a King to make Bishops or unmake them or to silence Ministers c. Mr. H. Remember what the Wise man saith There is a time R. L. Stay the Wise man Who do you mean of Malmsbury who had more wit in his little Finger than he that I doubt you mean had in all his Body Solomon is the Fool 's Wise man but the Wise man's Fool. O the depth that is in Leviathan and the best description of Religion in the World An Awe begotten in the minds of Men from Tales publickly told Come what Religion will the old Fox shall never get our Names in his Martyrology Indeed he must excuse us D me Mr. H. I will kick you down stairs if you thus talk before me and d so R. L. I will stop then whilst this fit of Zeal or fanatical Fury is on you For I remember the story of the Quaker That Yea and Nay kickt D me down stairs Mr. H. Will you hear me reason with you R. L. No not I with your long-winded stile like Jovian which we as well as the Phanaticks complain'd of as tedious and contradictory And he said right that said Either you had no Friend or would not use him You could not print Kid and Kings dying Speeches but run none knows where when one complain'd of motions to evil whether the Motus primo primi were evil c. For my part I think if any Pope were infallible it was he that said Quantum nobis profuit haec de Christe fabula If I could believe a Devil and a Hell I should think with King Charles the Second of blessed Memory for Whoredoms Perjuries and Infidelity That Calvin sat at the Devil 's right hand in Hell and Oliver Cromwell at the left R. F. Talk of other things What think you R. of the Doctrine of Resistance Is it so black so unusual as you said When I was an Antimonarchical Man a Whig and then Williamite I thought it not so neither can I now For my part I say of King James as other good Loyal men do I care not if the Devil brought him back so we could get him When you were Old Nol's Fidler and were for deposing Kings did you then and I after talk without Book R. L. Between our selves I will tell you my mind Nothing is more evident than that the old Romans in the best Government in the World depos'd their Kings Emperors c. Romulus the very Founder of Rome and first King was slain in the Senate for his proud Spirit Florus can hardly forbear speaking it out Ob asperius ingenium notwithstanding the Fiction of Julius Proculus his seeing him after his death and that he commanded the People to worship him They all along depos'd banish'd and put to death Tyrannical Princes Tarquinius Superbus as well as Jacobus Superbus after he discover'd his Cruelty by striking off Poppy's heads and other Pranks was forced to flee to Porsenna King of the Etruscans who helpt him to a great Army but in vain Tho not he but Arunta ravisht Lucretia yet the Father must flee for the Son's wickedness So King James went to the French King and all Attempts to bring him back are in vain This is a lively Transcript of that story He that reads Suetonius and other Authors will find Subjects singing Tiberium ad Tyberim A. S. I doubt not but when King James in his last Speech to our Senators said often His Will should take place contrary to the Test and other Laws If he had had his due Julius Cesar with his 24 Wounds in the Senate-house had lookt more lovely than he R. F. We have all sworn to secresy in speaking our minds No one hears us You know Vitellius was with a Spear held up by the Chin when the People flung dirt on him And the Bones of Caius Caligula were melted by the Order of the Senate after his death who said to his Mother disswading him from Injustice Memento mihi omnia in omnes licere No doubt King James could with him have wish'd all the People of England as he of Rome had but one Neck that he might cut it off at a blow His Nurse did not in vain put Blood on her Nipples when she gave him suck He paid dear for his Optimum olere occisum hostem melius sivem Sueton. Mr. H. O Gentlemen talk you as Non-resisters R. L. When we did we only talkt as such as you Preachers have your Priestcraft so some Statesmen theirs Mr. H. Whatever King James hath done he hath made many fair Promises to us Protestants on his Return R. L. Protestants Quodlibetarians we ever were and will be A. S. Yes promiseth just perhaps as that Roman Catholick that in a Storm promised the Virgin Mary a Candle as big as a Mast but after would give one of ten to the pound It is a French Proverb After a storm the Saint is forgotten These are my fears sometimes Claudius Cesar would condemn a Man and after send for him and play at Chess with him and then hang him the next day Mr. H. If after the Storm the Saint is forgotten then let them who are no Saints but the greatest haters maligners and persecutors of
A Friendly Conference Between the Suffering Saints for Conscience-sake the JACOBITES Met together at the Tavern Particularly R. L. R. F. and A. S. my Lord Bp of Salisbury promised to be so by K. James when he returns and other precious Ones there assembled at least to consult about and read Prayers for the dethroning the best of Kings and restoration of the worst With a Postscript concerning a late Declaration of Mr. Lobb and others against Crispianism Difficile est Satyram non scribere Juv. LONDON Printed and are to be sold by A. Baldwin in Warwick-lane 1699. TO THE READER IF it be askt why I argue not more against censur'd Antiscripturism and Non-resistance I have done the one at large in my Quakers Impostors or Apostates The other as largely in my Vindiciae Anti-Baxterianae If you ask why I write or Hint the Oaths or Curses of such vile Persons To represent them in their Colours others do so Mr. Dent in his Plain Man's Path Mr. Baxter in his Poor Man's Family Book Bring thine Antidote if in any danger If thou seest what Beast drunkenness and filthy talking makes some Jacobites and Blasphemy and Cursing make others or if thou wilt the same as Devils incarnate thou mayest loath the Sins the more in others and bless thy Creator Redeemer and Sanctifier who hath made thee to differ A Friendly Conference between the suffering Saints for Conscience-sake the Jacobites particularly R. L. R. F. A. S. Bishop of Salisbury and the rest of the suffering Brethren met at R. L. HOW fare your bodies Brethren for I know you are men of sense and think not of Souls as essential parts of you For my part I am Heart sick R. F. Before Jove I am far from being Heart-whole Saepius quam Euripus recurrit dolor A. S. This is a catching Distemper among us now I think not one of the Company is well there Mr. H. Let us take up the Bible then or the best of Books next to it the Common-Prayer Book and read something to comfort us R. L. Bible bibble babble I never thought that Book good for any thing but to make Folk humoursome And for the Common-Prayer Book the best cheating Book that was I cannot endure it since the Usurper's Name got into it and jostled out the King 's Pray call for a Pack of Cards and a chearful Cup and then by G I am for you R. F. I say the same and would swear by G too were I sure there were any and would curse the Prince of Orange and all his Adherents to the Devil were I sure there was any such Creature A. S. Fie Gentlemen fie talk not so profanely and atheistically We are Fellow-sufferers for Conscience-sake and if at any time we be sober it should be now R. L. Is Saul also among the Prophets What are you become a Saint and my Brother in Christ Come Sir every Man as be likes If you care not for Cups or Cards we will call for a Woman for you None but Fools talk of Conscience the old stale Topick of Rebellion It is a Bedlam thing and the ingenious P. laught it away with an As the Fool thinketh so the Bell clinketh A. S. What makes you to talk thus to me of a Woman R. L. We have Man been told long since That tho you pretended to leave the N. C. in P. for refusing the Oath of Allegiance to the Spark as we call'd him in the last intended Assassination you left it for a base Child That after an Anabaptist's Wife desir'd you to baptize her Child unknown to her Husband you baptiz'd the Child and lay with the Mother a great Scandal to the Cause of Pedobaptism That you when the Spark was expected to land look'd out for a fair Wind and asked Mr. W. and others Is there any hope the Prince will land if he do not we are all undone We thank your natural Child for your company So that they that knew you there say you are a great R A. S. In plain terms you are no little one thus to reflect Mr. H. In plainer terms both may be true and between our selves is so But what if Brother S. had a Bastard the great Apostle of the Scottish Presbyterians had a Bastard as I printed in describing that Tribe Mr. Yes printed it but could never prove it to my knowledg when question'd for it unless it were before his Conversion when a Member of our Church They grant a Convert-maker in their Church might first be a Bastard-maker in ours You could not prove this any more than another Story That the most learned Presbyterians in London acknowledged Duke Lauderdale to be a pious Man When no sober Churchman or prosane either could so believe disown'd by a Parliament for corrupting his King and other Villanies As you have worded the Story of Rutherford it is false If he had a slip before he was accounted so learned pious and angelical among them tho they cannot find he ever had any was it fair to twit St. Austin with his base Child before his Conversion whom in his Confessions he calls Adeodorus A. S. Why reflect you on King Charles the Second of blessed Memory If he kept Women you know who preach'd before him on that Text Was not Solomon beloved of his God yet Women drew away his Heart He made it clear That this is no parting Sin between God and Man especially a King Tho I confess Solomon never kept another Man's Wife never a Castlemain in the company of his Concubines Mr. H. I heard the Story but like it not for one Gentleman as he then came out of Church said There was nothing in Religion R. F. He said never the worse if you like it not I say It was the wisest word ever that Man said in his life I was inclinable to think so when I canted and ton'd and whin'd among the Phanaticks but I am much more confirmed since I turn'd Jacobite and came among you Mr. H. I say this was scandalous as was what that Bishop said to one of the King's Whores weeping for a dead Child Madam be not too much troubled God can soon send you another I tell you these are great Sins and it is a Duty not to justify them R. L. By Hercules What a Cant is here about Sin and Duty It is enough to give a man a stool to hear such Twit-twats Come for an Huzza or the old Trinity we gloried in twenty Years since of Wit Wine and Women R. F. Yes by my Faith you speak now to purpose R. L. You have broke the Order already to talk of Faith R. F. Pish that is but Vulgariter as the Atheist in France when burnt as such said when he cry'd feeling the Flames O God Doth any man think that any Bishop of ours had so little wit to be a John the Baptist at the Court to lose his Head If he had I would have taken it up as a Calves head Mr. H.