Communion They separate because the Church is polluted with these We only because we dare not pollute our own Consciences with them If we may have leave but to forbear personal concurrence in these we think the fault of other men I mean in things of that nature no ground for us to withdraw from the Ordinances in and with the Church so that in effect they go away from the Church We are driven away by the Church Sect. 3. The first Argument that the Dr. bringeth against denying Communion to the Church is It weakâ—neth the Câ—use of the Reformation This he undertaketh to prove by the testimony of some French Divines and he beginneth with Calvin whose words too long here to be transcribed do prove indeed Separation from a Church to be unlawful because of lesser Impurities or great Faults while the Doctrine and Worship are not greatly corrupted But he speaketh not one word of the Case of them who are driven away from a Church because they cannot submit to sinful Terms of Communion with Her yea he speaketh more in favour of such a Case than against it for he maketh Corruption in Christ's Institutions even in the words cited by the Dr. p. 181 182. and being anathematized for not complying with these Corruptions a ground of Separation from the Church of Rome which is parallel to our case But saith the Dr. he doth not mean indifferent Rites Ans. Neither do we scruple indifferent Rites but sinful Ceremonies And tho' I am far from comparing the Church of Enâ—land with that of Rome as â—o causes of Separation yet here there is a likeness the one rejecteth some of her Members because they will not sin with her and will force her Impositions on their Consciences and so doth the other Another Author he citeth is Daillie giving most substantial Reasons for Separation from Rome and he doth not mention our Ceremonies among them And what need was there to mention them when there were such weighty Reasons beside to be insisted on But Monsieur Daillie saith expresly if the differences had been such as we might safely have yielded to then Separation had been rash and unjust So say we for we cannot yield to the lesser sinfulness of superstitious Worship as we cannot to that which is greater to wit idolatrous Worship Sect. 4. Next he citeth Amyraldus who saith If there had been no other faults in the Roman Church beside their unprofitable Ceremonies in Baptism and other things beyond the measure and genius of Christian Religion they had still continued in Her Communion Ans. Neither should we refuse Communion with the Church of England for these and such-like faults We refuse the use of these and because of that the Church casteth us out of Her Communion And if Amyrald us say That he would have used these rather than have fallen under Rome's anathema we leave him to his own Sentiments in that but are of another opinion It is no wonder these men think little or next to nothing of the Evil of our Ceremonies when they are compared with these Romish Abominations but when we consider them by themselves and compare them with Scripture we cannot think so of them The Dr. further urgeth us with the Answers given by Claude Paion and Turretine to the Book entituled Prejudes legitimes contre les Calvinustes That they do not defend the Reformation by the unlawfulness of the Ceremonies this is both false and inconcludent It is false for Monsieur Claude spendeth a good part of the Third Chapter of his First Part in defending the ground and right that the Reformers had to depart from the Communion of the Romish Church because of their Ceremonies One of the chief Objects saith he that presented it self to our Fathers was that of the great number of the Ceremonies which he setteth forth as defacing God's Worship making it look partly like Judaism and partly like Heathenism He saith It was without doubt a character very opposite to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and much more to that purpose What the other two Answerers of that Book say on this Head I know not for I have not seen them This Argument is also inconcludent because the Reformation is abundantly defended by weightier Objections against Popery Sect. 5. One passage he citeth p. 184. out of Mr. Turretine that no tolerable superstitious Rites that do not infect the Conscience are sufficient grounds of Separation And the Dr. addeth is parenthesi as they cannot be where they are not forced on it by fâ—lse Doctrine To Mr. Turretine's Assertion I assent for nothing that is tolerable can warrant Separation And I deny not that some Superstitious Rites may be tolerable to wit where men will use them and do not impose them on others They that are left to their liberty may well tolerate others in the use of them but I do not so well see that any Superstition imposed is tolerable to a tender Conscience for Superstition is Sin and no Sin is tolerable in that case To the Dr's Parenthesis I answer That it is absolutely false and I wonder that he should assert it so confidently without proof for that I may not deny as he asserteth without reason 1. A Superstitious Riâ—e is one of the Traditions of Men in the Worship of God and that the Scripture doth simply condemn without all noticing of any false Doctrine to enforce the Tradition I know not what false Doctrine the Pharisâ—ical Washings were enforced with but I am sure Christ condemneth them without mention of any such false Doctrine distinct from the asserting of their lawfulness Mat. 15. 6 9. but of this afterward 2. May not enforcing a Superstitious Riâ—e on the Conscience of one that scruples it by Command and Will make it to defile the Conscience as well as enforcing it by false Doctrine If this Doctrine were true men might impose what they will in the Worship of God they might impose all the Rites that ever Jews or Heathens used or Papists either if they keep but orthodox mind and give no reason that is heterodox for these Rites but only sic volo sic jâ—beo To what purpose he citeth le Blanch shewing the impossibility of re-union with the Papists I see not but that many Names of Authors make a shew and it argueâ—h great reading for he saith not one word of the â—eremonies and we all know that if we would swallow down not only the Ceremonies of England but those of Rome it self yet Re-union with them is impossible on other grounds Sect. 6. It was needful that the Dr. should bring all this Discourse and these long Citations home to his purpose which every Reader could hitherto hardly â—iscern how it should be done Wherefore p. 185. he telleâ—h us what Triumphs the Church of Rome would make over us if we had nothing else to justifie our Separation from them by but the things that we now scruple And he telleth us how we would be laughed at all
a mind to expose the present Non-conformists as far degenerate from their Ancestors in the same Profession But of this more in its due place Sect. 3. He complaineth p. 2. of his own hard Usage on the like Occasion His Sermon entituled The Mischief of Separation was indeed solidly refuted by several Non-conformists and in that sence his Sermon was hardly used but I never heard before that hard Arguments were counted hard Vsage from an Adversary and if Bishop Jewel had no harder Usage for his Sermon there was no need of this Complaint unless it were to make his own hard Fate the more conspicuous by so venerable a Parallel This Reverend Author should consider That tho' we owe and give all due deference to the Memory of Bishop Jewel and to the Worth of Dr. Stillingfleet for their Labours in Defence of Protestantism yet it is neither Ingratitude nor Incivility in us to defend the purity of Gospel-Worship Worship against their Assaults We honour them but retain our Liberty of dissenting from them and of owning our Dissent when they mistake and are out of the way We call no man Rabbi having one Master CHRIST whose written Word we make the Rule of our Faith and Worship But one great part of the Doctor 's hard Vsage lieth in this That it hath been maliciously suggested by some and too easily believed by others that he was put on that Work with a design to inflame our Differences and to raise Persecution I confess Malice to suggest Evil and over-easiness to believe it is a thing too common among Dissenting Parties the Lord heal these Distempers on both hands but the particular Ground of this Charge on his Antagonists should have been mentioned If any have suspected that he was put on the Work if the work be good that doth extenuate the fault of such Suspicion I know no Evil in following either the Advice or Command of others to do our Duty So that hither to there is no Ground for the heavy Charge of Malice and malign Credulousness If any have judged his Design that is not fair dealing such Secrets are to be left to the Judgment of him who knoweth the Hearts But tho' I have a great deal of Charity in reference to the Intentio Operantis yet it is not so easie to pass a favourable Judgment on the Intentio Operis but he endeavoureth afterward his Vindication in this where I shall attend him Sect. 4. His professed Design in preaching that Sermon was only his just apprehension That the Destruction of the Church of England under a pretence of Zeal against Popery was one of the likeliest Means to bring it Popery in Here he supposeth if I understand what he saith that the Protestant Dissenters aim at the destruction of the Church of England or at least that Non-conformity tendeth to destroy it than which no imagination can be more groundless nor can I conceive what should give cause to such a thought unless it be an extravagant Idea that some men frame to themselves of the Church of England as if her Essence consisted in the Ceremonies and the removing of these were the destruction of the Church We who Dissent from that which they call the Church of England are far from such low and dishonourable thoughts of Her we look on her as a Reformed part of the Church of God professing the Protestant Religion in opposition to the Errours of Popery but mixing this True Religion with some humane Ceremonies and therefore we think that opposing of these Ceremonies is so far from tending to the Destruction of the Church that it conduceth much to reforming of Her But suppose the Ceremonies were good and lawful things it is still a strange Notion and inconsistent with the Sentiments concerning them that our Brethren do profess that they are indifferent things and of no necessity If they be so what hazard is there of the destruction of the Church from their being laid aside If the Non-conformists had their wish it would inferr no other Alteration in the Church but the removal of such Accidents which the A betters of them do say That possunt adesse vel abesse sine subjecti interitu such Incoherences would not have been expected from so Learned a Pen. Sect. 5. It is also unfairly to say no worse hinted That Non-conformists Zeal against Popery is but pretended and that the real Design is to destroy the Church of England we can clear our selves of both before a higher Bar and therefore lay little weight on such Suggestions neither do we meerly dislike the Ceremonies because they are Popish he knoweth that we have other Arguments against them I hope Non-conformists shew their Zeal against Popery in other things Nor do we desire the Destruction of the Church that these Ceremonies may fall to the Ground but the removing of the Ceremonies that the Church may be more acceptable to him who can make her stand in despight of the Gates of Hell. If he charge us with the Church's Ruin because our Divisions about the Ceremonies may tend to it For answer Let it be considered who giveth culpably the Rise to these Divisions Whether they who forbear the Ceremonies because Sinful or they who do violently impose them tho' Indifferent in their Apprehension But this will afterwards fall to be further discoursed I deny not that Papists design the Ruin of the Church of England but not as Ceremonious but as Protestant they do not design to destroy Her by removing what the Non-conformists scruple but by taking away what they agree with Her in And therefore there is no Cause to think that the removing of the Ceremonies which Non-conformists desire though under a pretence of Zeal against Popery or under whatever other pretence should be one of the likeliest means to bring it in which our Author feareth Sect. 6. The Learned Dr. hath caught this Notion That Non-conformists by their Zeal against Popery are like to be Instruments of bringing it in and he seemeth to be very fond of this fine Conceit runneth away with it at a great rate is confirmed in it from the proceedings of Papists p. 2. starteth a Paradox p. 3. As it seemeth to unthinking People like the Non-conformists that when Papists 〈◊〉 appear no longer in that Work others out of meer Zeal against Popery should carry it on for them and these unthinking people are carried away with meer no se and pretences and hope those will secure them most against the Fears of Popery who talk with most passion and with least understanding against is and more to this purpose One may think it little Glory for the highly Learned Dr. Stillingfleet to labour in refuting such a contemptible Adversary as he here representeth But their Wisdom and Learning and Reasons for what they hold will I hope find more Equitable and less Supercilious Judges in the world neither will Hectoring stop their Mouths though they are ready to be silent to plain
maintain such principles as destroy the Justice and Equity of the Reformation I know not when we meet with them we shall consider them mean while we profess our selves ready to disown all Principles that can be made appear to be of that tendency Sect. 13. Bishop Sanderson's three ways how Non-conformists promote Popery eventually tho' not intentionally which he mentioneth p. 7. are such as to unbyassed men will seen unworthy of the learned Bishop to propose or the learned Dr. to applaud the first is By helping to pull down Episcopacy at which he saith Rome rejoiced But will any say that this Joy of Rome was because Episcopacy is such an Enemy to Popery when they have it as well as we and when it is not to be seen in any Protestant Church as in England yea I must say Except in England Is it not obvious that their Joy was for our Broils on that occasion and not for the Ruin of that which they love so well Will any deny that Rome rejoiced as much at the pulling down of Presbytery in Scotland and the hindrance of its Settlement in England for our Changes Anarchy and Confusions are their Advantage The Second is Their opposing the interest of Rome with more Violence than Reason The Third is Their frequent mistaking the Question especially through the necessity of some false Principles which they will maintain whatever come of the common Cause of the Reformation It is not easie to reply to these I shall only say there is no Truth in what is here said nor the Candour becoming a Disputant in saying of it without any pretence to proving it Let not the Dr. think that the Bishop's 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 will convince us the Folly and Indiscretion that he is pleased next to grieve us with the Imputation of and to back again with the same learned Bishop's Authority p. 8. is another of his Arguments which we will not attempt to answer save with the words of Psal. 123. 3 4. Have mercy upon us O Lord have mercy upon us for we are exceedingly filled with contempt our Soul is exceedingly filled with the scorning of those that are at ease and with the contempt of the proud What he after mentioneth of the Popish Instruments being for the most violent courses doth not concern us who endure but use no Violence Let them look to it who with such Violence do press their Brethren in things acknowledged Indifferent which they think unlawful and ruine them for not yielding What Service this may do to the Papists who are such Lovers of Violent Courses let the World judge The Jews by indiscreet zeal brought the Romans on them which they designed to shun If he will prove our zeal against Popery to be also indiscreet we shall endure the parallel He cannot get that Notion out of his Head p. 9. that was met before That Non-conformists attempt to overthrow the Constitution of the Church because they are against the Ceremonies What Service this may do the Papists may be considered to make the Protestant Religion which I suppose doth constitute the Church of England have a Trifle such an Indifferent Ceremony must be for such a part of her Constitution as with it she is overturned they will be apt to inferr that we reckon our Religion a Trifle Let it be considered whether talking at this rate doth not look liker a Transport than what can be justly charged on the Non-conformists Sect. 14. Who doubteth but the Papists envy the Church of England and wish her torn in pieces and wish there were no Bishops in England and that they have endeavoured to destroy her Constitution and Government But what is all that to the purpose Doth it hence follow that they who dislike her Bishops and Ceremonies are doing the same Work The Tendency much less the Designs of Papists and Non-conformists can never be drawn into one Channel till he prove that it is the Ceremonies of the Church of England that Papists aim to destroy and not the Protestant Religion in it and that their spight at the English Bishops is not because they are Protestant Bishops but because they are Bishops It may with as much shew of Reason be said That a Physician promoteth the design of his Patient's Enemy who aimeth to kill him whereas the Physician 's Work is to remove his Disease both would have the Man what he is not but there is no Concurrence between them either in their intention or tendency of their Work. What followeth doth as little prove his point as I shall shew by brief Answers to his Questions Did not Cranmer Ridley c. suffer Martyrdom by their the Papists means Ans. Yes but not because Bishops but as Protestants Did not they own the same Episcopacy which is now among us and which men by Book upon Book seek to destroy p. 10. Ans. That maybe a Question but I now suppose they did these worthy Servants of God had Reformed much but left this Unreformed they did worthily in their Generation yet as men who are Imperfect we may rather wonder that in that time of Darkness which they had been born in and under the prejudices of their Education they discovered so much of Errour than that they in that Crowd of Corruptions that they had to purge out over-looked this Sect. 15. Some further Argumentative Questions he moveth Is all this writing against Bishops and Ceremonies done for the honour of the Reformation Is this the way to preserve the Protestant Religion among us to fill mens minds with such prejudices against the first Setâ—â—ment of it and to make the World believe that the Church-Government then Established was repugnant to the Institution of Christ and that our Martyr-Bishops exercised an unlawful Authority over Diocesan Churches But whâ—ther will Mens indiscreet Zeal carry them Here 's a Tragical Outcry as if Non-conformists went about to destroy Religion because they are not for Bishops and Ceremonies What a strange unaccountable fondness have these Men for their Diana who talk at this rate If this Discourse have any Nerves it will at once condemn all these as the worst Enemies that true Religion hath who have found any fault in a Reformed Church as if it were a thing impossible that a True Reformation should be an Imperfect Reformation But thus it is with Men who have left Scripture-Guidance and become fond of Humane Authority in Religious Matters We honour the Reformers but do not Idolize their Persons where they follow Scripture we follow them and the Apostle required no more of his Followers 1 Cor. 11. 1. but where they recede from the Rule we must needs Dissent Sect. 16. It may very much clear us silence such Clamours of our Adversaries if we consider that the English is not the only Imperfect Reformation that hath been in the World and that what our Author here alledgeth would equally justifie all their defects and condemn all Endeavours after further nearness
contained in express words The Papists are dull if they cannot out of this principle hammer out a Pope as well as the Doctor can frame a Bishop or Arch-Bishop This Inference as thus loosly set down is no way to be admitted because Christ hath not provided for the unity and preservation of his Church by leaving it to Mens will or wholly to their reason either but by his own Institutions to be wisely managed by the Officers that he hath appointed in his house Unity is then to be preserved Divisions and Heresies to be prevented by the painful and faithful preaching of the Gospel by Christs Ministers in their several particular Charges by private and publick Instructions and Admonitions By their joynt Concurrence in censuring and drawing out the Sword of Discipline against stubborn Offenders These are Christs Institutions and will be effectual when he is pleased to bless them and this blessing we are to expect on his own appointed means not on mens Devices But we deny that Unity in the Church is to be preserved in any way that men in their Wisdom think fit and particularly that it is to be preserved by setting up Arch-Bishops and Bishops in the Church These being none of Christ's means appointed for that end It is often seen that means thus devised of Men by Crossing of Christ's Institution either fail of their end or by mending one evil make a worse Peace and Unity is sometimâ—s and in the case in hand procured to the Church with the bearing down of Piety and shutting out of Purity Sect. 5. I dislike one Particle of that Definition that he giveth of the National Church of England diffusive p. 299. to wit he saith It is the whole Body of Christians in this Nation consisting of pastors and people agreeing in that Faith Government and Worship which are established by the Laws of this Realm Had he put the word of God insteâ—d of the Laws of this Realm I should have fully assented to this description But against that Particle I have two Exceptions 1. The Civil Law is accidental to the Church and is neither a constituent part of its essence nor a necessary adjunct of it The Church hath been without it and I hope he will not say That if the Laws were taken away the Church is unchurched for that 2. This makeâ—h the Church of England a variable and mutable thing as the Laws of men are for if Presbytery if Anabaptism If Independency Popery Socinianism and what sort of Religion you can name either as to Faith or Worship or Government were established by Law They that are of that way should then be the Church of England which is not only absurd but a dangerous notion in such a critical time as this I hope the Doctor did not design a fair retreat by this if Popery which God forbid should come to be establiâ—hed by Law The Papists were the Church of England and all the Ties that men are under to the Church of England by theâ—r Oaths and Subscriptions should oblige them to be Papists and all the True Sons of the Church must turn with the Law as the Weather-cock doth with the Wind This is like to be pleasing Doctrin to many But I pâ—rceive the Doctors design by this fine new notion is To let men see how easily the Church of England is distinguished from Papists on the one side and Dissenters on the other which makes him wonder at them who cannot tell what is meant by the Church of England If Men wondred much before they may wonder far more now what is meant by the Church of England when they see her painted in so changeable colours as that she may be one thing now and another next year and another the third year and so on The Scripture placeth the Moon under the Churches Feet and the Twelve Stars Apostolick Doctrine on her Head as her cognizance and Glory but the Doctor hath advanced the Moon to her Head that she must be known by it what he will do with the Twelve Stars I know not He is more favourable to the Papists and Dissenters they are to be known by their Conformity or Nonconformity to Scripture not to the Laws of the Land But if Papists or Dissenters should happen to get the Law on their side what will that party be that is now the Church of England It seems the Doctor is fond of this notion for he hath it up again p. 300. to the question how comes it to be one National Church He answereth because it was received by the Common consent of the whole Nation in Parliament as other Laws of the Nation are and is universally received by all that obey these Laws And thus he cleareth our Mists about the Church of England He had debated much with Mr. B. owning a Christian Kingdom but not a National Church but here he homologateth all that Mr. B. had said for the Parliament owning the Faith maketh a Christian Kingdom but it is some other thing that maketh a National Church to wit the Collective Body of all the Congregations of a Nation agreeing in the same Faith and Worship and Government as it is held forth in the Word of God. If the Doctor say thiâ— leaveth room for every party to call themselves the Church for all pretend to have the Word on their side I answer This is not to be denied for till the Lord cure our Divisions about truth and about his Ordinances we are not like to come to a decision of that question Who is the Church For all Congregations are parts of the Church and these that are nearest to the Scripture rule are the truest part of the Church The Apostle decided that Controversie who is the Circumcision the Dialect of some in that time for who is the Church not by the Laws of men but by the truth of God that they owned Phil. 3. 3. The Doctor hath found out a new Mark of the Church that Bâ—llarmine hath not though he hath more than enough to wit They that have the Law on their side are the Church Sect. 6. He telleth us that the representative Church of England is the Bishops and Presbyters of this Church meeting together according to the Laws of this Realm to consult and advise about matters of Religion This is saith not of the Convocation at Westminster but of the Consent of both Convocations Here I observe 1. That the Law of the Land is so constitutive of a Church to this Author that without it there is neither diffusive nor representative Church Then what becometh of the Apostolick Church and that of the first 300 years and of the Greek Churches under the Turk yea and of the Protestant Church of France where their Prince is not only Christian but most Christian And yet his Law does not favour that Church 2. I have shewed before that the Convocation can make no Church National representative The Presbyters and Churches of the Nation being
A Rational Defence OF Non-conformity WHEREIN THE Practice of NON CONFORMISTS IS Vindicated from Promoting Popery and Ruining the CHURCH imputed to them by Dr. Stillingfleet in his Unreasonableness of Separation ALSO His Arguments from the Principles and Way of the Reformers and first Dissenters are Answered And the Case of the present Separation truly stated and the blame of it laid where it ought to be And the way to Union among Protestants is pointed at By GILBERT RULE Minister of the Gospel Ezek. XLIII 10 11. Thou Son of Man shew the House to the House of Israel that they may be ashamed of their Iniquities and let them measure the pattern c. And if they be ashamed of all that they have done shew them the form of the House and the fashion thereof c. LONDON Printed for Iohn Salusbury at the Rising Sun near the Royal-Exchange in Cornhil M DC LXXXIX THE PREFACE THE fierce Contentions of this Age about the Mint and Annise and Cummin of Religion I mean Religious Ceremonies that men have devised and imposed hath in a great measure hindered people from minding with that application that becometh the weightier things of the Law to wit the love of God and of our Neighbour and due regard to the promoting of true holiness and the Salvation of mens Souls the heavy Sufferings of many in England and in Scotland for not complying with such things as their imposing Task-masters did not so much as pretend to give Scripture warrant for are too notorious to be denied and too smarting to be forgotten How many thousands have been put on this sad Dilemma either to wound their Consciences or to be destroyed by taking away their Estates Liberties Livelihood and life it self But now the Lord in his infinite wisdom and tender mercy to an undeserving generation having by some late Revolutions first broken the Yoak of the Oppressors and made them for some time taste a little of the Cup that they had made their brethren drink deeply of and then gratiously and wonderfully delivered both contending parties from that utter ruine that was manifestly impending and made us like them that Dream'd and done exceeding abundantly for us above what we could think out done our faith as was foretold Luk. 18. 8. He hath by this surprising providence laid an Obligation on all Protestants and they who are such in earnest will mind it to turn to the Lord from every evil way that hath been in their heart or hand and particularly to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace to endeavour to speak and do the same things and where that cannot be attained through want of light and other sinful disorders of the Soul not easily nor soon removed without that pouring out of the Spirit from on high promised Isa. 33. 15. and else where which we should daily and earnestly pray and wait for To bear with one another in Love. They who know no other way to Unity but Uniformity will for ever miss of their design unless either all men were perfect in knowledge and wholly freed from irregular passions or Conscience were wholly laid to sleep and its use banished out of the World. Toward this blessed end peace among Protestants sober reasoning between Dissenting Parties may have some usefulness even Eristick Writings may prove Irenick if managed and read with that Spirit that becometh the gospel that is with due love to truth and peace and if I did not judge this book to be of that tendency I should never consent that it should see the light The Apostle giveth us two excellent directions for attaining this end Phil. 3. 16. beside the duty of forbearing one another till the Lord clear mistakes to them who are out of the way which he doth more than insinuate ver 15. but alas even about these ways to peace we contend as will appear in this Treatise Yet in my opinion the Apostle doth there clearly hold forth that there is a rule to which all are obliged to conform their actions and principles and particularly Church Administrations Let us walk by the same rule In all reason this rule must be Divine in that it is here generally injoyned to be minded and that by all Christians Is it imaginable that the Apostle intendeth to oblige all the Churches to take a rule of mans making for directing them how they shall please God Besides Church or humane Canons never were or are like to be the same in all Churches nor indeed can they of the things that are left to the Church to order at her discretion that which is fit in one place may be most unfit in another Wherefore if the Apostle had aimed at these he would have spoken of Rules not a rule We have then cause to think that the way to Church peace is to take the Word of God for the rule by which all the affairs of his House should be ordered If we would enjoyn nothing peculiar to Religion to be observed but what is warranted there And would not be too busie in making Canons for determining these things that are Extrinsick to Religion its Rites common to it with other solemn actions further than necessity requireth and in these determinations keep within the bounds of the general directions of the Word of God If we would do all things in the Church decently and in order and then make nothing such by our Will and Authority but enjoyn the Observation of these things that Scripture hath declared to be such or nature and civil custom hath made such If we would content our selves with that decency and order that was in the Apostolick Church Our Controversie would soon be at an end It is true even where Scripture is taken for the rule there might be some different apprehensions about the meaning of this rule what it enjoyneth but they who sincerely seek the mind of God in his words and depend on him for the light of his Spirit readily will either find what they seek or will soberly and peaceably differ from their brethren But when this rule is laid aside and mans wisdom must injoyn what is fit in God's Worship even though they be Learned Wise and Holy men and in authority in the Church yet not infallibly guided and much more when any of these Qualities are wanting there can hardly he an end of controversie it will be hard to set bounds to their multiplicity of which the Popish Church is a fatal Witness and hard to bring them to an end by composing them unless blind obedience be asserted at least as to some things And how many things these shall be who knoweth The other Direction that the Apostle giveth in that place is let us mind the same things Vnity in design is very conducive to Vnity in Heart and Practice When all have one end before them they will the more readily fall into the same way leading to that end as when many are travelling to the
same City they will readily go in the same road or if one take a gainer way as he thinketh then another yet they will not fall out about that Let us then all make the one thing needful our business let us mind serious and practical Religion and in Subordination to that let us mind the Conversion and Edification of the Souls of the people under our charge Let us set our selves against Immorality Ignorance which alas doth abound every where Atheistical and careless neglect of Religion Let us labour to awaken the people to mind how they shall be saved and put them in mind of the hazard of resting on out side Worship whither it be with or without the Ceremonies that we controvert about If we all have a true Idea of that Religion that we should labour to instill into the minds of people and have that impression if the weight and indispensable necessity of it that the Apostle expresseth 2 Cor. 5. 11. knowing therefore the terrour of the Lord we perswade men If we were one in this it would much contribute to oneness in things that are more remote from the essence and life of Religion But while we mind our own things which must needs be very different while one sort is for their Grandeur and Riches and Dominion and Ease and another is for his Ease and Applause among one sort of men While we are for keeping up a party for victory over them that we contend with and for maintaining our credit so as we are ashamed to change least we fall under the imputation of being once in a mistake I say while these different ends and motives are suffered to influence us we must be far from agreement about any thing that hath been the Subject of our Debates while Lusts war in our Members Wars and Fightings will be the product of them Ja. 4. 1. As this purging of our selves from bad things might conduce to the Churches peace so might a joynt endeavour on both sides to purge the Church from bad Men an Ignorant Scandalous Heady and Vnsober Ministry is a great let to peace God will not be at peace with the Church while such are countenanced and good men cannot with any satisfaction behold such Scandals to Religion and such effectual Instruments of the ruine of Souls continued in the Church Such Ministers are Make-bates in the Church While some effectual course is not taken to remove them the Church is like to have little peace either with God or in her self Let all then if they would see Religion flourish and the Church setled in peace contribute their endeavours to get the unsavoury Salt that hath long made us unpleasing to God cast out and to oppose the entrance of them into the Holy Function of the Ministery who are not in some tollerable measure such as the Apostle requireth and are not in a probable capacity by their life and doctrine and diligence to do good to Souls and let none countenance or plead for unfit persons either to be admitted into or kept in the Church Pity to mens Persons or Families being horrid cruelty when the ruine of Souls is the necessary consequent of such Acts When love to the Salvation of men beareth sway with us above zeal for a Party we will easily be prevailed with in this If this piece of Reformation be endeavoured all Ranks must put hand to it the people by discovering such where they are and not calling nor countenancing them when they want a guide to their Souls And Magistrates by endeavouring the regulating of such Laws as do in any wise open the door to such men to enter or protect them when they already are in places And Ministers in their station by rejecting such Candidates of the Ministry as are not duly qualified and censuring the immoralities of such as have made a shift to get into that Office notwithstanding of their notorious unworthiness In order to obtaining the Peace of the Church which we all prize and desire Reformation is also necessary peace and purity will not long be separated the one from the other personal reformation must not be wanting if it will give hope of Peace even from Enemies Prov. 16. 7. much more is it the way to be blessed with peace from our Friends without it there is no peace with God nor Man but such as is a Curse to them who have it 2 King. 9. 22. Isa. 32. 17 18. Church Reformation must also truly be endeavoured by us if we would have Church-peace it is no token for good when sinful Evils Images of Jealousie that provoke the Lord to jealousie are in the Church and yet all agree in these ways none lament them none reprove them none take care to keep their Garments clean of the Corruptions of the Time like those whom the Lord doth so highly commend Rev. 3. 3. If we expect peace we must be humbled before the Lord for our personal and publick Deviations and be ready to confess them before the World we must take Shame if we expect that he should favour and honour us See Ezek. 4â— 10 11. While we are fixed in evil ways and will not be convinced or so proud that we are ashamed to acknowledge that we have been out of the way God nor Man can make no peace with us Neither is this all but we must turn from our evil ways of whatever sort they be particularly while Church Grievances are continued while no effectual course is taken and that unanimously and with serious application to remove Scandals to satisfie the Consciences and quiet the Minds of such as are grived how can Attempts for Peace have any success I suppose it will not be denyed by sober and intelligent Men that there are faults in the Church tho' some do strangely Hyperbolize in declaiming of her perfection but they that are in that strain of whatever party they be do little understand the Scripture Patern and the Church-way that themselves own and do not compare the one with the other Non-residences Pluralities want of Parochial Discipline abuse of Excommunication making that which passeth for Church Discipline and censures to be more destructive to mens purses than to their vices and other such things are too grosly evil to be defended and too well known to be denyed or dissembled It were one good step toward peace if there might be a prospect of getting such Enormities done away and the affairs of the House of God managed in a way more like that of the Gospel It might also make for our Peace if all of us of both parties should put on a Spirit of meekness and rather lament what we cannot approve than reproach one another for such things An unsober and fierce Spirit hath too much appeared on both Hands our Zeal for and against the things controverted is no way proportioned to the things themselves Many have not a different degree of Zeal against the grossest parts of Popery from what
Scripture or solid Reason He judgeth p. 3 4. That East and West may meet and the most furious Antagonists of Popery may become of the easiest Converts Deus avertat omen If we may form any Conjecture of what may be from the Observation of what hath been easie Conversion to Popery is liker to be found among his own party who are tame and gentle towards Popery and no way furious And if any be furious against it let them bear their blame We applaud and practise Rational Zeal against it but not Fury for The Wrath of Man worketh not the Righteousness of God. He cannot get out of this fear concerning many Thousand zealous Protestants I deny not but there is cause of Fear for many have got sound Principles in their Heads without saving Grace in their Hearts and the Knowledge and Fortitude of most is very weak and the best have Cause to fear themselves and look to him who is able to make them stand but I hope all the Ground of Fear is not on our side Sect. 7. But now the Learned Author cometh closer to his Design viz. To lay down Grounds of his Opinion that he is so confirmed in That the principles and practice of Non-conformists do tend to re-introduce Popery among us one is That they mistake what Popery is being as much afraid of an innocent Ceremony and of the Cross as of real Idolatry and of Kneeling as of Adoring the Host. Ans. 1. The Dr. might have known that the learned Labours of some Non-conformists against Popery do sufficiently testifie that they are not ignorant what it is 2. We generally know that the Ceremonies are not Popery but loâ—k on them as a part of Popery but are far from equalling them with some other parts of Popery that are far 〈◊〉 re grosly evil 3. We never counted even the nocent Ceremonies used in England for innocent Ceremonies we know none but those of God's Institution so bad as real Idolatry nor Crossing and Kneeling so bad as worshipping Images tho' we count both sinful and dare practise neither Therefore if we should come to see our Mistake in the one Case which we expect not yet there is no Ground for the Consequence of this alledged by him viz. That we should suspect our selves deceived in the other also unless he would say that every Discovery of a Mistake that Men make about the smallest matters in Religion will shake the very Foundation of their Faith which I hope he will be very far from asserting left they that have read his Irenicum in former years and now read his Sermon and this Defence of it should inferr that which Good Men will be far from imputing to a person of his worth especially when he doth not deny but rather own a Change in some things now debated p. 72. of the Preface Sect. 8. It looketh like another Ground that Non-conformists serve the Designs of Papists that When they find the undoubted Practices of the Ancient Church condemned as Popish and Antichristian by their Teachers they must conclude Popery to be of much greater Antiquity than really it is and when they can trace it so very near the Apostles Times they will soon believe it setled by the Apostles themselves Ans. 1. Here is still a confounding of something that is Popish with Popery a part taken for the whole an Accident without which Popery can well consist and which doth subsist without Popery with the body and substance of Popery He looketh on his Antagonists according to his wonted Esteem of them as very mean Logicians when he will have them conclude the Antiquity of Popery in those things that he and we do jointly dislike it in from the Antiquity of some Rites that were used under that Apostasie and which we have continued among us under the Reformatiom 2. It were still as bad a Consequence from our traceing some things near to the Apostles times to inferr that they were setled by the Apostles For we can make it appear that not only soon after the Apostles times but in their times some things were in the Church that they did not setle as the Love-Feasts which they reproved and abolished after that abuse of them was observed 3. To call those things that Non-conformists Scruple Viz. The Ceremonies the undoubted practices of the Ancient Church which may be traced near to the Apostles times is gratis dictum a bold begging of the question the proof of it we expect Sect. 9. It will saith he P. 5. be very hard to perswade considering men that the Christian Church should degenerate so soon so Vnanimously and so Vniversally as it must do if Episcopacy and the use of Significant Ceremonies were any parts of the Apostasie Here is still the great Antiquity of these things taken for granted but not proved But further his Considering men if they read and consider the Scripture will easily be perswaded that a Church may very early and quickly degenerate and that Vnanimously and Vniversally especially in some things that are of lesser concern in Religion How suddenly did the Church of Israel degenerate and Aaron with them when Moses was but 40 days absent in the Mount that in matters of higher moment than what we contend about even worshiping a Calf for God see Ex. 32. 1. and particularly Vers. 8. And the Lord foretold to Moses their after Apostasies Deut. 31. 16. And Moses took notice of their Apostasies while he was yet with them and how soon they would break out after his departure 27. 29. How Quickly Vnanimously and Vniversally did the ten Tribes apostatize after Solomon's decease And is not the whole History of the Church of Judah under her Kings a witness of this When ever a bad King arose presently the pure Worship of God was turned to Idolatry In the days of Joash as soon as Jehojada was gone how quickly did a Faction with a Complement to the King turn the whole Nation to Idolatry 2 Chron. 24. 17 18. These Apostasies were in higher points than we now speak of and yet How quickly did the Church thus degenerate And that this should not be thought strange even in the Gospel-Church we may see if we consider what Christ telleth us of the Tares sown while men sleep and growing up insensibly and without Observation Also the degeneracy that the Church fell into even while the Apostles were alive and faithfully watching over her and that both in Doctrine and Practice is evident in the Errours in Corinth and Galatia in the Abuses in publick Administrations at Corinth insomuch as the Apostle behoved even in his own time to make a Reformation by bringing back to Apostolick Example and the Law of Nature for reforming some Indecencies among them and to Divine Institution for reforming their Enormities 1 Cor. 11. 1. 20. 23. If these evils crept in under the Inspection of the Apostles What wonder is it if Men afterwards began in some things to deviate in Church-practice
of Puritans P. 102. he sheweth that the same Canons being now Nine Years after ratified by Parliament The Bishops began to urge Subscription more severely than before which made many Dissenters keep their private Meetings in Fields Words their Friends Houses c. And may not one rationally think that the Jesuits might in their own way prompt the Bishops to this Severity as well as the Dissenters not to yield to it Sect. 20. The notions that Jesuits have of Spiritual Prayer mentioned p. 15. some of them extravagant enough the learned Dr. useth as a repreach to the Non-conformists how rationally let the VVorâ—d judge seeing we never vented nor owned such Fancies only we think Set Forms of Prayer unfit to be used where Ministers are tolerably gifted to pray without them and that all the praying that we read of to have been either practised or commended in the Apostolick Church was without Book the Spirit not the Book helping their Infirmities even as to what they are to pray for or the Matter of Prayer Rom. 8. 26. When he saith p. 16. that It is not improbable the Jâ—suits were the first Setters up of this way in England â—nd that it was never known here or in any other Reformed Church before this time If he meâ—n Prayer without a Set-form if he mean any thing else it is not to the pâ—rpose it is a rash and untrue Assertion Was ever Prayer without Book condemned by any Râ—formed Church Yea Can any Reformed Church be instanced where it hath not been and is not used Or let him mention a Reformed Church that hath restrained Extemporâ—â— Prayer and imposed a Set-form But this Debate he resumeth afterward and till then we shall leave it it doth not savour of tha◠〈◊〉 regard to the Spirit of Prayer that is promised to be â—â—ured out on the people of God Zâ—â—h 12. 10. to mock the using oâ— his help to pray wiâ—hout a Book as a Charm Effectual with jâ—dicious Pâ—ople and to jeâ—r the zeal and warmth of Devotion that appeareth in it Many know the Advantage of what he thinketh but a Fancy let him abound in his own Sence for De gustiius non est 〈◊〉 If by meâ—ns of this manner of worshipping God the Division wonderfully 〈◊〉 as he saith I hope it was not the Debauched nor Unserious that were so taken with that way and therefore this Encrease was no reproach to it Sect. 21. He citeth the Admonition given in to the Parliament 14 Eliz. of which he saith the Authors Mr. Fâ—ller's Church History p. 102 103. maketh Mr. Thomas Cartwright Author both of the first and second Admonition would have neither Papists nor oâ—â—ers eâ—â—strained to communicate I do not understand whether any person should be constrained to partake of the Lord's Supper for I suppose that is meant otherwise than by forcible perswasions which is the Compulsion meant Luk. 14. 23. Brugensis saith it expresseth viâ—â—â—vangelij so others That Ordâ—nance was never appointed by the Lord to be a Test of a Man's Profâ—ssion while he is uncapable to improve it to higher ends But if the Admonition plead for Tolerating of Popery I have not the book by me and therefore cannot determine in this we are far from approving it Though we think we have a Right by the Gospel not only to Toleration but further Coâ—ntenance for our way yet if we might chuse we had rather be under the severest Peâ—secution than have the least hand in obtaining Liberty to that Idolatry We must not do yea nor wish Evil that Good may come What he citeth out of Archb. Whit gift and Archb. Grindal p. 17 18. I look on as Invectives against the Non-conformists of the same stamp with his own they are Parties and therefore not to be adduced as Witnesses Dr. Sutclife saith no more than we will say that our Divisions give advantage to the Papists Let them who are the culpable Cause of the Divisions look to it The Prophecy cited out of Mr. Solden is to the same purpose and needeth no other Answer Sect. 22. The politick hellish Advices given by the Jesuit Contzen and Seignior Ballarini make nothing against us at all tho' he filleth p. 19 20 21. with them for all that can be thence inferred is That they labour to divide Protestants and this Dâ—vision falleth out according to their wish Now the Division hath its Rise from the Impositions of one party that assume the Name of the Church and the Scruples of another party If the Church impose that which is lawful and necessary and the other party scruple that and so divide in that case the Dissenters must bear the blame of the Division and are guilty of co-operating with the common Enemy in ruining the Protestant Religion But if the Church by Her Impositions burden the Consciences of Her Members with things that She counteth Indifferent i. e. Needless and the Scruplers reckon as unlawful and have just ground so to do then the blame of Separating and of helping the Papists to ruin our Religion lieth at the Church's door wherefore all this might have been spared Let the learned Dr. soundly refute our Principles and then cast what blame he will on us but till that be done which we expect not let him â—ake heed where the blame will be laid when the Secrets of Men shall be judged It may be observed in these Advices that the Jesuits as their Master the Devil often doth speak some Truths out of a bad end Sect. 23. Next he cometh p. 22. to reproach us with the Indulgence that was granted March 1671-2 as being procured by the Papists If any Non-conformists had a hand in procuring Liberty which I do not believe to them I think their Brethren will disown them in that Act. That Papists had a hand in it is not improbable both for their own ease and to make the Difference among Protestants the more conspicuous But was it fit that we should forbear a necessary Duty because of their ill Design We did not join in the practices of the Church before that but worshipped God after his own Institution without Humane Ceremonies All the Change in our way on that Occasion was that what before we had done in corners and with hazard then we did safely and openly and what fault was in this But One saith that the Presbyterians suspected the kindness and joined with the Conformists like wise Men and refused the Bait Who said so or on what Ground I know not we went no further from the Conformists than Conscience of Duty had made us do before but it had been a strange thing if when Liberty was granted us to worship God in his own way we had then joined with a Superstitious Worship which we could not do before If that Author mean That Presbyterians were then willing to concurr with the Conformists as their Protestant Brethren in all things lawful to disappoint the Designs of the common Enemy we approve of that
either so undervalue Conscience or reflect on the worthy Persons that answered his Sermon If we cannot shew plain and evident Reasons for what we say as he requireth we refuse not causa cadere Sect. 31. He telleth a very formal Story p. 51 52. of the Effects of his Sermon of the mimick Gestures of the Non-conformists when it was spoken of the Truth of which History tho' I doubt I cannot disprove It neither was worth his writing nor my confuting He thinketh it lay at bottom of many mens Stomachs that he did not perswade the Church of England to the Dissenters Who did ever require that We pretend to no Authority over Her if she would have condescended to us for Peace sake which that Party talk so much of to forbear imposing her unnecessary things which we judge unlawful that should have satisfied us But he thinks p. 53. it had been unseasonable to speak of Alteration of Laws before Magistrates who are tied to the Laws that such Alteration is one of the weightiest things Ans. Supposing as he there saith his private Opinion for Abatements there was no need of proposing the Alteration of Established Laws but the exposing of them that were under the lash of Inconvenient Laws may well be forborn before the Executors of these Laws by a man that thinketh that Abatement should be made of the rigour of these Laws I do not think as he doth that the alteration of every Established Law is a Matter of such weight as any thing that can be taken into consideration provided the consideration about it be by such as have Power to alter it What is more common than altering of Laws when they are found inconvenient Our first Reformers thought not so under Edward 6. The Liturgy and the Law for it was altered when excepted against by Mr. Calvin abroad and some Zealots so the Historian speaks at home Full. Chur. Hist. 6 7. p. 386. Why may not this be done now when Dissatisâ—action is become more universal But it is a supposition that I can give no account of that the Laws against Non-conformity for of these his Discourse must be understood if it be at all to the purpose should be so looked on as that they concern the preservation of the Church and Religion That Church and Religion must stand on a tottering Foundation that cannot be preserved if those things be laid aside which are acknowledged to be indifferent But thus it is to dote on Mens Inventions it is ordinary to equal if not preferr them to Christ's Institution Mark 7. 13. Mat. 15. 6. Qui amat ranam ranam putat esse Dianam Sect. 32. But the Dr. is not content not to advise the altering of these Laws where it had not been very pertinent to propose it but he bringeth Reasons able as he thinketh to preponderate all the Considerations that any might use for changing them these Reasons are in number Six the 1. is The Impossibility of satisfying all Dissenters Must therefore none be satisfied because all cannot Some will be satisfied if you will but forbear imposing what God hath not commanded Others will not be satisfied unless you forbear also some of Christ's Institutions such as Infant Baptism is it reason to neglect the doing the one of these for Peace and Unity because you cannot do the other The 2. is The Vncertainty of gaining any considerable number by Relaxations If any man look on this as uncertain it must be either because he knoweth not what we scruple at or because he thinketh us resolved to dissent without reason when the reason of our Dissent is removed but I hope the Dr. is neither so ignorant nor so uncharitable He may be well assured that by relaxing the Imposition of humane Ceremonies all the Presbyterians shall be gained to join in worshipping of God with the present Church and I hope he will not say that they are no considerable number in England His 3. Reason is The difficulty of keeping Factions out of the Church considering the ungovernableness of some mens Tempers and Principles Answ. If the Discipline that Christ hath instituted be duly exercised in the Church that will either make men governable yea actually govern them or it will exclude them out of the Church and so Factions shall cease in the Church But it is a strange piece of Ecclesiastical Policy on supposition that some will prove ungovernable to obtain the making of Civil Laws for imposing those things on mens Consciences which the Imposers count need nots and they on whom they are imposed know them to be unlawful This is the way to make them ungovernable in reference to these particular Impositions who would tamely submit to any Yoke that is not contrary to that of Christ. But it seems the Dr. looketh on all that scruple at human Ceremonies as ungovernable Persons And we rationally think that his Party are resolved that we shall either be governed by their Will not by the Word of God or they will take the most effectual ways that they can to keep us out of their Church I confess Conscience is an ungovernable thing except by the Laws of Christ but it is much the Strain of some of his Party I am confident the Reverend Dr. doth not mean so ill to ridicule and cry down Conscience in private persons that they may be governed by the publick Conscience a Soloecism in Divinity never heard of before i.e. The Will of the Superiours the thing to wit Blind Obedience is an old Popish Tool to enslave Consciences but such an express affronting of Conscience God's Deputy in the Soul is a new Invention that this Age is honoured with Sect. 33. His 4. Reason is The danger of breaking all in pieces by a Toleration Ans. Toleration is both commanded in Scripture Rom. 14. 1. Eph. 4. 2 3. In this last place it is joined with endeavouring after Unity so far is it from being the way to break all in pieces as the Dr. thinketh It is also condemned Rev. 2. 2 20. wherefore it should not have been so generally censured as a Church-ruining thing Beside Toleration is not that which we plead for in the first place but that the things that grieve our Consciences may be removed that so we may join with you in worshipping God in his own way that we may need no Toleration but if that cannot be obtained our next desire is that we may be suffered to worship God in that way that is acceptable to him by our selves when we cannot do it with you neither is it a vast and universal Toleration of all Blasphenius Heresies and Vnpeaceableness that we contend for but a forbearing of such as live peaceable in their Dissent from you in the smaller Concerns of Religion This Toleration would break nothing in pieces but the denying of it tendeth to break all in pieces For while Men have the use of their Conscience they will Dissent and serve God in the way that they
and Pious and Learned Sr. Matthew Hales in his Book of Schism hath this passage In times of manifest Corruptions and Persecutions where Religious Assembling is dangerous private meetings howsoever beside publick Order are not only Lawful but they are of necessity and Duty All pious Assemblies in times of persecution and Corruption however practised are indeed or rather alone the Lawful congregations and publick Assemblies though according to form of Law are indeed nothing but Riots and Conventicles if they be stained with Corruption and Superstition Sest 40. He answereth an Objection pag. 77. That the Publishing of this Book is now unseasonable being a hindrance to the Vnion of Protestants to which there seemeth now to be a general Inclination He Alledgeth p. 78. that the principles of Non-conformists hinder that Vnion and lay a foundation for perpetual Divisions He knoweth that we will not own this and therefore proveth it as he thinketh On the principles laid down by some of the Dissenting Brethren Let the constitution be never so easie to themselves others may make use of their grounds and carry on the Difference as high as ever I wish he had told us what these grounds are But it is an Odd kind of Reasoning we will not endeavour Union with them who may be Tollerated because they who are not to be Tolerated will expect the same favour The ground on which we plead for forbearance is our Scruple about what you confess to be no Institution of Christ nor necessary duty we in our Conscience judge it unlawful and can shew good reason for our so judging How this ground can be Improved by any body to heighten Differences unless it be by the peremptoriness of them that will Impose such Things I do not understand He professeth to be for Vnion that will lessen differences and not weaken but strengthen the Protestant Religion Now let any judge whether the Union that is founded on the ground proposed be not such Sect. 41. He saith p. 97. That Vniversal Liberty differeth from Vnion as loosing from binding and it is strange if that which Papists lately thought the best Means to bring in Popery should now be lookt on as the most effectual way to keep it out Ans. We do not nor ever did plead for Vniversal Liberty which was that which no doubt Papists aimed at ergo nihil dictum But suppose saith he the Indulgence be at present strictly limitted to Dissenting Protestants we are not sure it will always continue so Will not the same Reasons as to Scruple of Conscience suffering for Religion c. be extended further when occasion serveth and Popery getteth footing on the Dissenters Grounds Ans. Were it not as rational for us to say Tho' we can now join with the Church of England in her present Ceremonies what know we how soon on the same grounds she may bring in all those of Popery Let us forbear evil surmising and mind our present Duty especially seeing the way to prevent this feared Evil is obvious to wit that no Indulgence be granted after but what there is as good Reason for and as little hazard from as is at present Neither do we plead for Indulgence meerly on the grounds of Sâ—ruple of Conscience or Suffering for Religion but on other grounds in conjunction with these as hath been a little above expressed It is like our Grounds may be comprehended in his wide-Bellied c. but if by it he means all grounds of Forbearance now may be extended to plead for an undue Toleration then all Forbearance of Christians that dissent in any thing must be unlawful which is contrary to the Scripture formerly mentioned and to the general Sentiments of all Christians except Papists whose Religion standeth by Blood and Cruelty Sect. 42. Where saith he hath the Church of Rome more Labourers and a greater Harvest than under the greatest Liberty of Conscience Witness the state of the Northern Kingdoms compared with the number of Papists in the united Netherlands I can soon tell him where to wit under Episcopal Persecution of Protestants in Britain If this be a mistake these Nations have been for some Years in a Dream Again his Instance is wide from the purpose for we plead not for a Toleration of all sects and particularly not of Papists what Toleration is in the Netherlands themselves can best give account of He asserteth it impossible to keep out Popery where Toleration is allowed and I assert it as impossible to keep in Christianity in an impure Church where it is not allowed and yet there is no inconsistency between the two Assertions if we distinguish between a Limited Toleration which we plead for and one Vnlimited which he all along speaketh of To talk of Toleration thus without distinction is to walk in the Clouds and not descend to the thing in debate which is unbeseeming a Disputant Sect. 43. He bringeth Three Arguments p. 79 80. to prove his Assertion 1. Because of the various waies of creeping in under several Disguises which the Priests and Jesuits have and can never be prevented where there is a general Indulgence for Dissenters and an unaccountable Church-power is allowed to separate Congregations Ans. 1. This Argument Supponit falsum which we have often disclaimed to wit That we plead for a general Indulgence to Dissenters we desire it may be limitted to men of peaceable Principles and Practices to such as differ from the publick way in matters not Fundamental nor near to the Foundation and for our part who are Presbyterians we seek forbearance only in things that are acknowledged to be none of Christ's Institutions and in things that are neither against Godliness nor the Peace of Church or State. Another Falshood that he supposeth is That we plead for an unaccountable Church-power in Separatâ— Meetings We plead for no Power in them but what a good account can be given of from Scripture and what is allowed commonly to a Church as such 2. I mention'd before a way of preventing the creeping in of Priests and Jesuits for all their Cunning to wit The due Exercise of Church-Discipline in all the ways that shall be tolerated especially in the admission of Ministers to their Office and if these Foxes creep in at undiscerned cranies if Discipline be in vigour they may be cast out again before they can do any considerable harm to the Flock Sect. 44. Argument 2. Because it will be great hardship when mens heats are over for them the Papists only to be deprived of the Liberty of their Consciences when the wildest of Phanaticks are allowed it Answ. 1. Still the old Supposition must found all his Arguments We plead for no Toleration to any Phanaticks properly so called much less to the wildest of them 2. There are many weighty Reasons why Papists should be denied that Liberty that is allowed to Protestant Dissenters from the Grossness of their Heresies the Idolatry of their Worship the Unpeaceableness of their Principles such
Preaching and Hearing when Men forbid us We should do it peaceably and inoffensively but do it notwithstanding For his Advice to the People I cannot approve it yet doth it not reach our Case for he adviseth to Conformity for the present with express mention of their Hope of a further Reformation which we are out of all hope that ever our Clergy will yield to In Beza's Resolution of a Case mentioned by the Dr. p. 23. I desiderate one cause of Separation from a Church to wit Imposing unlawful Terms of Communion unless either this be comprehended under the right use of the Sacraments that he mentioneth or such withdrawing be not properly a Separation but a being driven away Sect. 34. He saith this Advice of Beza's put an effectual stop to the Separation I find no such thing in History but rather the contrary The same opinion he citeth of Gaulter ep dedicat in homil ad 1. Ep. ad Corinth Zanchie ep lib. 2. p. 391. where Gualter complains of the Lyes and Prejudices against the Church of England I wish it have not been Lyes written by that party that made him write so and Zanchie is even for Ministerial Conformity It is an easie thing to gather Scraps and Sentences out of mens Writings that represent them as speaking what they never thought and nothing is more ordinary with this Author than to perswade himself at least to endeavour to perswade his Reader that all the World are of his opinion It is enough to us in this matter that the Reformed Divines beyond Seas did not use the Ceremonies but have condemned them and that on such Grounds as make them unlawful to be used to wit that they are Vain Worship Additions to the Word of God the Symbols of Popish Idolatry c. and if notwithstanding of all this any of them would perswade us to use them their Doctrine doth hinder us to obey their advice which we look on as an overlash of Charity to the then good Bishops of England who were Labouring to Reform the Church from Popery Sect. 35. He telleth us next Sect. 7. of a New Generation of fiercer Non-conformists the peaceable ones being worn out It is not unusual for Adversaries to represent true Zeal as fierceness but if there was undue forwardness among them we defend not the Faults of Men but the Truth of God which they owned There was a sinful fierceness among some of Christ's Disciples when they called for Fire from Heaven Luke 9. 54 55. but this was no Argument against their cause We with sad Hearts behold the scandalous Fierceness that is among some Antiprelaâ—ists at this day but must not change our Principles for that And was there then and is there now no fierceness on the otherside If we may judge of former days by the present we may rationally ascribe the fierceness of some of the Suffering Party to that of the persecuting Party as the Exciting cause for oppression maketh a Wise Man mad Eccles. 7. 7. for the Complaint that Mr. Fox maketh of them which he Citeth out of Fuller Ch. Hist. lib. 9. p. 106. If the Circumstances be considered it will be found not to prove what the Dr. bringeth it for We must know then out of the same Author that the Complaint in this Letter was against some particular men in Magdalen College who were no Representatives of the Non-conformists that it was not occasioned by any of their Principles or Religious Practices but by a particular injury done by these men to Mr. Fox as he thought And Mr. Fox was as likely to be byassed in the matter in Controversie between him and these men he complained of as they were The Matter was his Son Samuel had left the College and gone beyond Sea without leave either of his Father or the College and at his return was suspected of Popery and for this he was by that party that Mr. Fox is so angry with expelled the College Beside all this any who readeth that Letter of Mr. Fox's may see a Strain and meet with Expressions very unbecoming Old Reverend and Good Mr. Fox who had always professed himself a Non-conformist tho he had more Latitude about the use of the Ceremonies than some others had Factiosa ista puritanuorm capita isti ter puri puritani and some other foul Reflections with the odious name that Enemies gave to that Party are very unsavory from such a Pen But Age and supposed Injury must bear the blame of the peevish strain that is too manifest throughout that whole Letter It were a hard case if the faults either real or supposed of some were always to be charged on all the Party The Dr's own Party would be black enough if they were thus dealt with and even the Historian no Friend to the Non-conformists calls this Letter such a Strain of Rhetorick as once Tully used pro Domo sua and imputeth the too much passion in it to the unjust Affront offered to him Sect. 36. Next the Dr. doth highly resent the Admonitions First and Second presented in the Name of the Non-conformists to the Parliament by Mr. Thomas Cartwright But I see not by what he citeth out of these Admonitions wherein the bitter Zeal of that Party appeared Neither that they despised the old Trifling Controversy about Garments and Ceremonies for these were still the Grounds of their Non-conformity tho they complained also of other Grievances Neither do I find that they said all was out of Course in the Church they owned the Protestant Religion but desired that the Reformation might be more through by laying aside some of the Remainders of Popish Superstitions formerly overlookt I wonder why the Dr. should startle so much at their complaining of the Liturgy Bishops and Arch-bishops the Way of câ—lling their Clergy the Ceremonies annexed to the Sacraments which are the Grievances by these Admonitions laid before the Parliament with an humble Petition for redressing of them Seeing he knoweth that these are the very things that our Controversie is Conversant about and tho' all these be not the Grounds of our withdrawing from their Worship yet all of them are such things as we are grieved with and desire a Reformation of That he calleth them bold and groundless Assertions is a more bold and groundless Assertion than any of them for he knoweth Grounds have been given which it were better to refute than rail at It is also strange that he saith That these Admonitions gave the true occasion to the following Practice of Separation when himself assigneth another Cause of it before this p. 18 19. and yet another that he dateth it from long after to wit the Indulgence Praef. p. 23. Sometimes he layeth it on the Jesuits Praef. p. 11. and indeed he knoweth not wheâ—e to lay it missing the true Cause which is Episcopal Rigour in their unscriptural Impositions on the one hand and Consciencious Obedience to the Word of God on the other That this Cause
but held it for an Antichristian Sociâ—ty and therefore not to be communicated with Aâ—d that of the Independents who owned the Congregations in England to be True Churches but thought it unlawful to join with them because of the mixture of scandalous Sinners with visible Saints that was among them Separation on the first Ground is well refuted by the old Non-conformists and that of the second by the Assembly of Divines and other Presbyteriâ—ns Both these were active separation chosen by the separating Parties and that on grounds of Dislike with the Church that aâ—e indefensible But our Separation if it may be so called is passâ—ve we are driven away we seek the Communion of our Brethren we are willing to bear wiâ—h many things that are a Burden to us and which we wish to be reformed rather than have Separate Meetings We own the Parishes of England as the Church of Christ the Petition for Peace is a publick and authentick witness of all this but our Brethren will have no Communion with us unless we will own the Ceremonies that they without any warrant from Scripture impose on us which we cannot do without sinning against God and wounding our Consciences and we can and do give good Reâ—son and Scripture-warrant for this our Scruple Let then any Indifferent Person judge Whether it be fair dealing to condemn our not joining in the publick Worship of the Church by the Authority of them who condemned these fore-mentioned Separations But occaâ—â—on will be given to discourse this Matter further wherefore I now forbâ—ar Sect. 8. I hope what hath been said will evince That the Dr's following Historical Discourse hath the fault called Ignoratio elenchi running through the whole Texture of it and that it doth not tâ—uch the Question in hand but I shall take a more particular yet transient view of it He saith Sect. 8. at the beginning The Separation being now bâ—gâ—n the Non-conformists set themselves with the greatest vehemenâ—y against it If the Dr. would prove any thing against us he must shew That there was no forbearing of publick Ordinances on account of scrupling the Ceremonies by the Non-conformists before this the contrary of which I have shewed Also That it was Separation on that account and no other that they wrote against the contrary of which is most evident He may know that the Presbyterians now do differ nothing from the old Non-conformists in this for they have as much set themselves against the same sort of Separation and can make it appear that this is no way unsuitable to their own Principles or Practice It seemeth by what the Dr. citeth out of Mr. Parker that the Separation was charged on him as laying a Foundation for it by his Principles just as it is now with us If the Dr. can charge any of us with bitterness and pride the two Characters given by Parker to the Separatists let the Guilty bear their blame But I am sure our Principles that he is angry with import no such thing and therefore such an oblique Reflection on us in general is not Brotherly dealing We love not to recriminate Sect. 9. He alledgeth p. 28. that of the Four Reasons published by Barrow and Greenwood against the Separation Three of them were taken out of the Admonition given in by the Non-conformists to the Parliament He here exposeth these Non-conformists that then were as very ridiculous men who laid down Reasons for Separation and yet were so much against other mens practising what they gave Reason for If he think them such men why would he bind us to their Authority which is the tendency of this long Discourse But the Dr. doth both mistake and misrepresent this matter His Mistake is In the Admonition these things were presented as Grievances to be redressed not as Grounds of Separation His Misrepresentation is These Monitors did not speak of the Ministry Government and Worship as wholly unlawful antichristian and false for they owned the Ministry and Worship whatever thoughts they had of the Government as right for the substance tho' vitiated by some Modes adhering to them which they desired to be removed It is true Gilford saith they make a vile Schism rending themselves from the Church of England but doth he not add And condemning by their Assertioâ—s the whole visible Church in the World even as the Donatists did of old time Which sheweth that it was not scrupling of Humane Ceremonies that they are charged with but nullifying of Churches because of some Corruptions in them Gilford's words that follow p. 29. we are not concerned in We know that many were the sad effects of that Separation diverting People from the serious Exercises of Religion to Janglings And it is not without this effect on some where the oppressed Party is Innocent as to the main but that proveth not that we should comply with unscriptural Ceremonies to shun this Evil but that they should not be imposed on us As to Gilford's blaming them for not coming to the Book-Prayers this he spake without Book either in the heat of Disputation in which many do over-reach or it was his Opinion but is not ours I agree with Gilford That the Corruptions of the Church of England did not make her Antichristian and therefore the Brownists were to be blamed in separating from her as Antichristian not we who are ready to join with her as a Church of Christ but cannot digest her Humane Ceremonies in Divine Worship That Gilford was a Non-conformist the Dr. needed not to be at so much pains to prove That all Non-conformists are fallible men and some of them mistaken in some things we willingly grant We also close with what his next Author saith p. 30. That he is a Member of that Church where he is by Providence placed and that he ought not to separate from it while it is a true Church only with this Exception Unless that Church require me to sin and if I will not do so exclude me Which Exception it could not be expected that he should mention that not belonging to the thing then controverâ—ed It is hard for a Controversal Writer to guard his words against all Exceptions that contingent Cases not yet thought on may afford The same is to be answered to his Citations out of Mr. Bernard and the Confutation of the Errours of the Separatists dâ—ne in name of the Non-conformists so that this whole Discourse of the Doctor 's is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Sect. 10. He thinketh Sect. 9. to parallel our withdrawing from the Ceremonies with the Separation of the Brownists for if that be not desigâ—ed I know not what his Discourse tendâ—th to by setting down the concessions of these Separatists to wit That the Doctrine of the Church of England is sound and saving that they will not separate for every blemish in the Church So far we agree But they pleaded saith he that the Corruptions of the Church of England were such as overthrew the
reckoned among them Let the Dr. impute this to our Obstinacy at his pleasure we can bear it In this we are Murus Aheneus in the Poets Seâ—se Sect. 13. He telleth us p. 53. of the present Separatists going beyond Mr. Robinson the Foâ—nder as he maketh him of the Independent way who was for Communicating with the Church in the Word and Prayer He should have told us who these are It is true they thrust us out from Word and Prayer too by denying us all Church Privileges for not submitting to the Impositions and force us to seek all Gods Ordinances where we can have them in his way but we are far from withdrawing from the Word and Prayer in the Church of our own choice This Discourse against the Independent Separation I meddle not with and therefore pass over all that he saith from p. 53. to 59. only touching Two or Three Passages What Mr. Câ—n saith p. 54 of the principles of the Puritans inserting Separation is so far True that their holding the unwarrantableness of Bishops and Ceremonies doth inferr on them who act conscientiously that they should rather refrain from joining with any Church than own the one or use the other And if these be made the necessary Terms of Communion with a Church we must suffer our selves to be separated from such Imposers p. 59. Some complaining of the Mischief of Impositions a Word the Dr. is very angry with because unordained men were not suffered to Preach when and where they listed is no fit Parallel to the complaint that others make of the Mischief of Impositions when they are Excluded the Church for not using Humane Ceremonies In the one case there is restraint of what is contrary to Scripture no imposing in the other That is imposed to be done which is without warrant yea condemned in Scripture Such mean â—rtifices the Dr. reacheth at that he may ridicule our unwillingness to be Imposed on by Man's VVill in the VVorship of God. p. 58 he saith Presbyterians would not have all left to Conscience Who ever said otherwise or can say otherwise unless they would first burn their Bibles We never made Conscience the Rule it must be guided and ruled by Scripture What he saith of Popular Government let them answer it who are concerned He saith Humorous and Factious People will always be complaining of the Mischief of Impositions This Title of Mr. A's Book is a great Eye-sore to him but he should consider that on the other hand an Imperious Superstitious Clergy that will be Lords over Gods Inheritance in dispite of the Apostles Words will always be Imposing and take it ill that any should think their Impositions a Burden as wise and sober Men may do without being either Humorous or Factious He saith the Principles of Liberty of Conscience will unavoidably lead men into Confusion Many think that such indistinct and rash Assertions are more like to lead Divines into Confusion in managing their polemick Discourses Must Conscience then be bound Hand and Foot and carried whither the Prelate pleaseth Will even Dr. Stillingfleet own Mr. Parker's Notion of the Publick Conscience Hath Conscience no use but to discern what is my Lord Bishop's Will or what the Act of Parliament saith We are as far from owning an unbounded Liberty of Conscience as the Dr. is but the absolute denying of all Liberty of Conscience is liker to lead Men into Atheism than giving them some Liberty to lead them into Confusion Let Conscience then have Liberty where it hath Scripture warrant for what it holdeth which is the Liberty we plead for to our selves and let it not be rigorously dealt with in things that are of lesser Moment in Religion where they that profess Conscience are otherwise sober and peaceable and there is no hazard of confusion from Conscience It is a more innocent thing where it is rightly dealt with than the Dr. taketh it to be and we think it is more to be regarded than the Rules of Order and Government in a Church which the Dr. seemeth to bring in Competition with it I mean such Rules as are but of mans devising It is false that the Presbyterians cannot Answer Independants as to the pretence of Conscience nor they the Anabaptists For the one can refute the other wherein they mistake and tell them that Conscience cannot make their Error to be a Truth And yet they can bear with Godly and Peaceable Men in these mistakes because of their Conscience Sect. 14. He telleth us Sect. 14. That the Presbyterians charged the Dissenting Brethren with being the occasion of an inundation of Error by their going upon the principle of Liberty of Conscience I am far from justifying that Toleration which the Independants pleaded for and which by their means some say was used in our late times of Distraction Then there was no King in our Israel All Error should be opposed Gross Error punished and restrained by force But will it hence follow that we must not have leave to Dissent even from those things that the Church imposeth without Warrant from the Lord All the Citations that the Dr. bringeth p. 59 60 61. are evidently against a vast Toleration The Vniformity in Religion that the Scotch-Commissioners speak of is not to be understood of Words in Prayers and Humane Ceremonies for would they not then have first setled that way at home but of Doctrine and Discipline and Worship so far as commanded by Christ. Sect. 15. The Dr. is pleased to give himself the Trouble from p. 61. to 73. to transcribe the Substance of the many and large debates that were between the Assembly of Divines and the Dissenting Brethren But he will find it hard to apply the condemning of their Separation to our Case For they refused Communion with the Presbyterians whom they could not charge with requiring them to use any mode of Worship but what was commanded They left the Church for supposed Corruptions which were none of their personal fault nor were they put under a necessity of approving them VVe are willing to have Communion with the Church if we may be suffered but to forbear these personal Accusations that were our Sin if we should do them But let us hear what conclusions the Dr. draweth from these Debates p. 73 74. The 1st is That the Old Non-conformists thought themselves bound in Conscience to Communicate with the Church of England and did look on Separation from it as Sin notwithstanding its Corruptions This he thinketh he hath so proved that the shining of the Sun may as easily be denied Whether it hath been disproved in what is above discoursed and with what measure of clearness let others judge also how inconcludent mens Authority is in Gods matters hath been shewed The 2d Conclusion is That all Men were bound in Conscience toward preserving the Vnity of the Church to go so far as they were able So that the lawfulness of Separation where Communion is lawful is
so insufficiently represented there 3. Neither do I understand how the Consent of two Convocations that never meet personally together can be called a Church or National representative Church I thought a Church had been a Meâ—ting not a consent of men A Personal Concurrence in some Religious Acts not a mental consent about them Bodies are requisite to make a Church as well as Souls Sect. 7. I pleâ—d not for Mr. B's Constitutive Regent part of the Catholick Church though an Oecumenick Counsel if it could be had might better challenge that Name than the Pope and I think Christs Headship over the Catholick Church dâ—th not answer to what is debated about to wit a visible power super-intending all the Inferiour Church powers on earth We own a Catholick diffusive visible Church but wish rather than hope for one representative for we are perswaded the Pope hath no title to such a headship But the question between him and Mr. B. being about a visible representative or regent Head of the National Church of England I have shewed that consent cannot stand in this room and therefore bringeth in the Arch-Bishops Bishops and Presbyters summoned by the Kings Writ whose Conclusions must be enacted by a Parliament Against this National Head I object 1. That it hath no Warrant to represent the Churches of the Nation of which before 2. He seemeth above to make two such Convocations and so there must either be two Churches of England or the one Church of England must be Biceps and so a Monster 3. This consent or Convocation call it what you will is not a regent head of the Church of England it medleth only with makeing rules for Government which is none of the Churches work she is only ministerially to execute Christs Laws but doth not govern by receiving Appeals censuring the Maleversation of inferior ruling Churches inflicting Censures c. Sect. 8. Mr. B. asketh whether the rules that unite the Church of England be Divine or Humane The Dr. answereth Sect. 22. The Church is founded on a Divine Rule but requireth a conformity to the rules that she hath appointed as agreeable to the Word of God. This I conceive is not to answer the question he should have told us in which of the two rules their unity lieth We know that all Churches as well as these of New-England which he mentioneth if the Magistrate own them have civil Priviledges annexed to Church Orders but that is still wide from the question whether these Orders be Divine or Humane Doth the Church or do the Churches of New-England make Orders for observing Ceremonies in God's Worship devised by Man and place their unity in that It remaineth then still that if the National Unity of the Church of England be made by Divine Rules that either are expresly or by Consequence in Scripture we are members of it and will in all these joyn with it but if they place their unity in observing rules that have no Warrant from Scripture if we cannot joyn with them in so doing we do not separate from them but they in so far separate from us and from all the pure Churches of Christ. Sect. 9. He maintaineth p. 305. against one of his Opponents who had objected That the Church had no power to make Laws about Foederal Rules teaching Signs and Symbols c. That such a Church hath power to appoint Rules of Order and Decency not repugnant to the Word of God and that all setled Churches are for this I reply 1. He doth not answer to the Objection I hope all Rules for Order and Decency are not about Foederal Rites and teaching Symbols Ordering the natural Circumstances of Worship comprehendeth the one but not the other 2. It is false that all setled Churches appoint Rules for such Order and Decency as consisteth in Religious Ceremonies teaching Symbols and such like 3. It is also false that all setled Churches appoint Rules of Order and Decency even in the Circumstantials of Religion so as to exclude all from their Priviledges and to incite the Magistrate to punish them who do not conform to these Rules as he alledgeth other Churches use to rule by holding forth light and Perswasives not to impose with rigour and force on the Consciences of men Nor do they concern the Magistrate but where some notable violations of the Law of God otherwise not to be restrained doth require it 4. It is a false supposition that our Imposed Rules about Ceremones are not repugnant to the Word of God but this is not the place of that Debate SECT VI. The Peoples Right of Electing their Pastors THe last of these four Pleas that the Reverend Author ranketh under the first Head and which he alledgeth some make use of for separation is That the people are deprived of their right in the choice of their own Pastors This he proceedeth to Sect. 24. I do not make the depriving the people of this power a cause of separation though I reckon it a notable Grievance and earnestly desire a redress of it and pray that the Lord may move the Hearts of Rulers to defend the people in this their Right against them that take it from them But our work is now to defend this Right of the Members of the Church against the Doctor 's Assaults But before I come to this I shall shew 1. What this Right is that they have in Electing their Pastors 2. From whom they Derive it 3. What ground we have to think that they have such a Right Sect. 2. To shew what this Right is I assert 1. That the people have no Right to bestow the Benefice on their Pastor nor to elect him to it unless either it be their own gift or the giver of it hath transferred that power on them It is Election to the Office not to the Benefice that we debate about which if the Doctor had considered he might have spared a great deal of his following Discourse It is true the Magistrate ought to provide for the Church so as the person regularly chosen may enjoy the Benefice but if the Magistrate please to reserve it to his own disposing there is no Remedy the people must either chuse the man that may have the maintenance if he be tollerably qualified or they must provide for him themselves And so when a Patron giveth a Maintenance on these terms That he have the chusing of the person who shall enjoy it the Church should either reject it and provide for their Minister another way or chuse the person that the Patron presenteth But this Patronage is a sad Grievance to the Church devised in Satan's Kitchen saith Beza confess fid c. 35. it is an oppressing of people in their Spiritual Rights and in that which concerneth their Souls A greater bondage than if the whole Parish were obliged to eat nothing but what the Patron pleaseth And it had been less blame-worthy if these Donors of Church Livings had kept their Gift
Law of Justiniâ—n it is appointed that the Election be made by the Inhabitants of the City And I hope he will not impute Contradictions to Justinian's Laws He next objecteth Concil Laodic can 13. He doth not cite the Words and I meet only with the Title in these Words Deo quod non sit populis concedendum electionent facere eorum quam altaris Ministerio sit applicandi Ans. If this be meant of excluding the People wholly it is inconsistent with other Canons above cited and therefore not to be minded Therefore the meaning must rather be that the Election is not to be left to the Rable but they are to be assisted and directed in that Action by the Presbyters and better-sort of the People The Second Council of Nice is next cited but much amiss for it is Ordination not Election that is restrained to Bishops i. e. not to be done without them and Election is only taken out of the Hand of the Magistrate That Second Council citeth for Conformation of their Decree the Fourth Can. of Concil Nice 1. Where there is not a Word of Election by Bishops but only of Ordination He concludeth with Concil Constantinop 2. Can. 28. Carazanze hath it 22. Whereas the Greek Church owned but Fourteen of these Canons and the rest are look'd on as a Forgery Beside That Council was in the end of the Ninth Century when the Bishop of Rome had got very high and therefore less to be regarded Sect. 17. The Fourth thing the Dr. considereth is p. 323. That the Magistrate when Christian did interpose in this as he judged expedient Ans. We are not against the Magistrates interposing to repress Tumults assist the Oppressed oppose unpeaceable Persons c. But the question is Whether the Magistrate did take away the Election from the People and did interpose generally and when there was no special necessity for his interposing 2. We deny not but some Magâ—strates did interpose against Right and Reason but quo jure did they do so But let us hear his Instances the first is Constantine recommended to the Synod two Men to chuse either of them or whom they should judge fit without taking notice of the Interest of the People Ans. 1. This is far from taking away the Peoples right to deprive them of the present use of it on occasion of their dissension 2. How doth he prove that no notice was taken of the Peoples Interest That it is not mentioned is no proof it was so universally owned in those days that it might well be supposed without mention 3 Yea the Emperour in his Ep. to the People of Antioch doth mention it several times as Eusâ—bius relateth for he willeth them not to desire the Bishop of Antiâ—ch but to chuse one according to the Custom of the Church as our Saviour had dâ—rected them His next instance is in a Dissension at Constantinople about Paulus and Macedonius The Emperour Constantius put them both by and put in Eusebius of Nicomedia And after his Death when the Oxthodox party chused Paulus the Emperour put him out by force and put in Macedonius Ans. Such Instances will be little to the Credit of his cause for all this was done by a persecuting Emperour Constantius for râ—oting out the sound Faith and planting Arianism and was complained of by all the Orthodox as an Encroachment on the Liberties of the Church What followeth is far short of the point to wit the Emperours restoring Athenasius and several other Bishops who had been duly Elected and Ordained and by him thrust from their placâ—s Next Theodosius would have Nectarius made Bishop of Constantinople when many of the Bishops opposed it Ans. This maketh more against Episcopal Ordination than against Popular Election But that tâ—e peoples Election was not here Impedited is clear from the Synod at Ep. cited above Sect. 6. where the consent of the whole City is mentioned Next Chrysostom was appâ—inted by the Emperour to Constantinople without the People for Palladius doth not mention any consent but what was subservient to the Emperours determination Ans. Whether the câ—nsent was Antecedent or Subsequent if it was it destroyeth his design Beside both Socrates and Sozomen do expresly mâ—ntion the peoples Votes and Palladius whom the Dr. in this leaneth to doth not deny them Next he saith the Emperour would have none of the Clergy of Constantinople chosen to succeed Sinsinnius therefore Nestorius was brought from Antioch Ans. It doth not follow that he was not chosâ—n by the People and the Emperour laying this restraint on the People is only if at all excâ—sable because he feared disturbance Such pretences have often given occasion to Oppression His last instance is Proctus was made Bishop by the Emperours order before the Burial of his Successor Ans. It is not proved that the People did not chuse him yea the People had chosen him before Maximanus his predecessor got the place and he being now dead he might enter in without the Formality of a new choice Let the Reader now judge whether any Orthodox Emperour did ever disown this priviledge of the People either by declaring that the power was not in them but in himself or by interposing ordinarily or without hazard of the Civil Peace in the Elections of the Pastors of the Church wherefore the Dr. in all this hath said nothing that can conclude against this power of the people Sect. 18. His fifth Consideration p. 325. is That upon the alteration of the Government of Christendom there was greater reason for the Magistrates interposing thâ—n before I suppose by the alteration of the Government of Christendom the reverend Author meaneth the breaking of the Roman Empire and the setting up of many Kingdoms out of it which fell out in the latter and very corrupt times of the Church Himself dateth it from the endowment of Churches by the liberality of the Northern Princes Against this I argue 1. This practice being so long after the Churches purity began to decay and when Christian Religion was almost destroy'd by the encrease of Apostacies and when Princes and Prelates had as it were divided the spoiles of the Church between them and robbed the People both of their Rights and many of the Ordinances of God as to the purity of them it hath no weight to conclude against the Peoples right of Election which they had from Christ and enjoyed in the purer Ages of the Church for many Centuries of years If this reasoning have any force it will make as much for the Mass Imagiâ—s denying the Cup in the Lords Supper to the People and many such things which I hope the Dr. will not argue for tho' he unwarily saâ—th more for them than wâ—â—ld have been expected 2. He acknowledgeth p. 325. That this was obtained by Princes by degrees and indeed it was very late before it became common and the Power was wholly wrested out of the peoples Hands He confesseth that this way was not
by lawful Authority men who are zealously and godly affected may not with any good conscience approve them use them or as occasion requireth subscribe to them let him be Excommunicated ipso Facto and not restored untill he repent and publickly revoke these his wicked Errours The Dr. hath a subtile distinction here between but affirm which term Mr. B. had used and affirm One would think that affirm and no more added to it signifieth no more than but affirm But the Dr. saith that affirm signifieth these circumstances which according to the common sense of mankind do deserve Excommunication viz. that it be done publickly and obstinately What ground the Dr. hath for this criticism I know not I am sure his citation out of Augustine that a man is born with till he find an accuser or obstinately defend his opinion saith nothing of the sense of the word affirm Neither do I think that our Courts will be ruled by Augustine or the Dr. either If a man with the greatest modesty imaginable being asked why he doth not Conform shall say he cannot do it with a good conscience he falleth under the plain letter of this Law and goeth against the express words of it and this is the least that a modest man can say unless he will say I will not do it and that will be called obstinacy and so bring him under the Law in the Dr's own sense But if the man as a modest man may give reasons for his Non-conformity when men require him to Conform every word he saith will bring him under this Excommunication Sect. 3. Another answer that the Dr. bringeth against this Plea is pag. 368 369. where he tells us of the opinion of Canonists that such an excommunication is but a commination and cannot affect the person till a sentence be past applying it to him and that men under such excommunication are not obliged to execute it against themselves by withdrawing from the Church I shall not contend about this though one would think that such excommunication as he describeth were rather ipso Jure than ipso Facto and that excommunication ipso Facto bringeth one under the sentence as soon as the fact is committed But to let that pass this excommunication declareth what we are to expect and the frequent yea general execution of it putteth most part out of capacity to come to Church and may justly alarm the rest to seek a retreat for themselves in time It is as when an act of banishment is passed by the Magistrate the party is so far loosed from his Obligation to that Society that he may with a good conscience withdraw before he be violently transported sure such excommunication and the fact which we neither deny nor are ashamed of are enough to loose our tie that we had to the Church Sect. 4. He answereth a question Can these be called Schismaticks who are first excommunicated by the Church He saith they may in two cases 1. When there is just cause for the sentence Reply I deny not but such are to be condemned for their giving just cause for such a sentence and it may be on the same ground they may be called Schismaticks but to call men Schismaticks for not joining with a Society that hath cast them out seemeth to be such a figure as when men are called Fugitives who are justly banished but I will not contend about words If the Dr. can prove our excommunication just let him call us what he will. The instances he giveth make nothing for that none of these Churches require sinful terms of Communion imposing mens devises in the Worship of God and then excommunicate men for not submitting to them His second case in which excommunicates are Schismaticks is if they set up New Churches which he proveth from the instances of the Churches that he had before mentioned Reply He now supposeth the excommunication to be unjust else this case were coincident with the former And in that case I distinguish his assertion The unjust excommunication is either for an alledged personal fault or for a principle of Religion unjustly called false Again it is either past against one or few or it is against a great multitude a considerable part of a Church or Nation If it be for an alledged personal fault where it is hardly supposed that a great part of the Church can be concerned I do not say that such may set up new Churches It is fit such should quietly wait till they can be cleared they having in that case no ground to charge the Church with any fault in Doctrine Worship or Discipline but in the mis-application of a true and right way of Discipline But where the unjust excommunication is for a sound principle falsly called errour and it also reacheth a great part of the Church Ministers and People I see no reason why they should not have the Worship of God among themselves let men call it setting up of new Churches or what they will. For 1. It were strange if the half of a Church or Nation or near so many should be obliged to live without the Ordinances of God for the Caprice of some ambitious Church-men who excommunicate them because they will not dance after their Pipe. 2. In this case the Orthodox had been Schismaticks when they were excommunicated by the Arians and set up New Churches 3. Christ should oblige his People to live without his Ordinances because of their love to the purity of them What the Author objecteth out of Augustine is not to be understood of our cases but for private men excommunicated for falsly-imputed crimes not for any thing of their Faith for he bids them keep the true Faith without Separate meetings Sect. 5. Our Author proceedeth in the end of page 371. and forward to consider another Plea made for separation to wit scruple of Conscience which I think none do make the sole ground of separation but they have a ground for their scruple If that ground be good it will warrant the scruple and the separation too if not it can do neither And therefore I shall not insist on this as a plea distinct from what I have already defended I suppose the Author that mention it intend no more than I say only they may rationally maintain that a scruple not sufficiently warranted in a person otherwise sober and sound about a matter indifferent or not intollerably evil tho' it doth not free the scrupler from all blame yet may oblige the Church not to impose with rigour the things so scrupled on such a person The Dr. here doth not act the part of a Disputant nor a Casuist but of somewhat else that I shall not name For when it had been pleaded that these scruples are great of long standing not to be removed without very over-powering impressions on mens minds He answereth by a harange full of contempt of his adversaries that a little impartiality and consideration would do it but that
we read judge and hear only on one side think it a temptation to examin cry out we are satisfied already are not willing to be informed nor glad of light fly out into rage at them who endeavour to remove our scruples c. If we be such men why hath the Learned Dr. written so long a Book to refute us it is no wonder that he stirr up the Magistrate against such and the People too to cry out away with such fellows from the Earth it is not fit they should live He asketh where lyeth the strength and evidence of our scruples If I should speak in his dialect I should answer in the arguments by us produced which he and all his party are not able to answer nor have ever answered but I had rather-dispute than scold He saith we may see light if we will We say we would see it if we could and think we could see it if it were to be seen He telleth us how easy this dispute is We assent and wonder that so Learned a Man should go about to darken so plain a truth He chargeth us with willful mistake a mistake we deny and make the contrary of it appear but if it be a mistake that it is willful we also deny and though we cannot in this satisfy them who are resolved to cast Iniquity upon us c. yet we can make our appeal the to Searcher of hearts who will one day judge us and our rash judgers Sect. 6. He contesteth page 373. with Mr. A. about some expressions of his that he alledgeth Mr. A. mistook there is no need of insisting on such debates Brethren should study to understand one another and construe every thing to the best But if the Dr. had been as careful to vindicate his own cause as his own words he would have refuted Mr. A's pertinent and weighty discourse pag. 72 73 74. which he hath but lightly or hardly at all touched He proceedeth pag. 376. to deal with another of his Antagonists who objecteth that these who cannot conquer their scruples as to Communion with our Church must either return to the state of Paganism or set up new Churches by joyning with the ejected Ministers The Dr's Answer is that this is new Doctrine the old Puritans supposed men obliged to continue in the Communion of our Church altho' there were somethings that they scrupled at Reply I have formerly shewed that there were old Puritans that did both scruple and act as we do but I deny not that some did join with the Church but then their scruples and ours do differ They thought the Ceremonies were inconvenient yet might be used we think them unlawful and not to be used There was also another difference they met with some indulgence and were suffered to Worship God with the Church and forbear the things that they scrupled We meet with nothing but rigour and severe imposing of these and therefore whatever they did we are under this unpleasing choice either to sin against God and our Consciences or to set up Separate Meetings or to return to the state of Paganism i. e. to live without the Ordinances of God. Sect. 7. It is objected that we scruple joining in the Sacraments and living under some of the Ministers He answereth that he never heard this last alledged for a ground of Separation neither do I insist on it as I have before declared save where they Preach false Doctrine or otherwise corrupt the Ordinances so as we cannot join in them without our personal sin And this scruple hath been often heard of It is too vulgar a way of reasoning it is a hard case if People must fly into separation because all their Ministers are not such as they ought to be Pray who ever said so But the Dr. would fain know whether as often as men do scruple joining with others their separation be lawful This is easily known by a less knowing person than the Learned Dr. St. for all men knows and acknowledge that scrupling can never make Separation lawful it is good ground for these scruples that must do that Wherefore all the instances that he heapeth up of unjustifiable Separations might have been spared as wholly impertinent O how easy is it to prove Learnedly that which no man denieth After one of his Historical instances of a Separation from the Churches of New-England he asketh what is there in this case but is every whit as justifiable as the present Separation Ans. There is in it that these Separatists could not with any reason object to the Church from which they Separated that she imposed on them any Religious Ceremonies of mens devising or other unlawful terms of Communion and then excommunicated them for not submitting to these He telleth us page 378. that no setled Church doth allow this liberty of Separation because men cannot conquer their scruples It is true neither is it fit they should allow it meerly on that account but withal he might have added that few setled Churches except that of Rome and that of England do tempt or rather force men to scruple and to Separate by imposing unnecessary terms of Communion which they know many count unlawful What he saith ibid. for Papists Anabaptists and Quakers pleading for the same liberty of Separating doth no way come up to our case Neither are their scruples built on good grounds nor are the things that they scruple known by the Church that imposeth them to be unnecessary things He wondereth that none hath taken care to put a stop to Separation by shewing what scruples are to be allowed and what not Hath this never been done by Non-conformists Have we not also taught that the Church ought to bear with them who soberly dissent in the lesser concerns of Religion and not impose unnecessary things on Peoples Consciences If these were attended to a stop might soon be put to Separation but if Men will scruple without cause on the one hand and the Church will impose without cause on the other there is no putting a stop to Separations till the Lord cure our Distempers Rigour and Persecution if it succeed to root out the Dissenting Party is one way to put a stop to Separation but it is none of Gods way and as it never had his approbation so it seldom hath had success Sect. 8. The Learned Author Sect. 36. falleth on a new Subject to wit the use of God-fathers and God-mothers in Baptism I never look't on this as a sufficient ground of Separation and therefore might wave this whole debate But I think it is an abuse and therefore shall say a little on this Subject Here we have not any institution to guide us there being nothing in Scripture that I know of about Spoâ—sion for the party Baptized And therefore as on the one hand what the nature of the thing and reason make necessary should not be withstood so on the other what is beyond that should not be practised and far
less imposed All the question is about the use of Sponsers in the Baptism of Infants for the adult are to undertake for themselves Some make the use of God-fathers to be witnesses of the Childs-Baptism That is very needless for the whole Church are witnesses of that The true use of them is to represent the Child as a party covenanting with God in this Solemn Sealing of the Covenant of Grace between God and the Infant and consequential to this to undertake the instruction and education of the Child in the Christian Religion and endeavouring to engage him to a personal owning of the Covenant The original of other Sponsors beside the Parents was in the Primitive Church many young ones either born of Heathen-Parents or Orphans of Christian-Parents falling into the Tuition of Heathen-Relations in reference to their worldly concerns were in hazard by that means to be bred in Heathenism Wherefore it was judged needful that some faithful and intelligent Christian should undertake for their Religious Education This usage which reason had first brought in ostentation did afterward enlarge by multiplying God-fathers and God-mothers and after that Superstition did perverâ— it by excluding the Parents and putting strangers in their room till at last in Popery it was quite depraved by making a spiritual kindred to result from this action Wherefore we do not deny the use of Sponsors but think the Parents the most proper Sponsors both on account of their opportunity obligation and natural inclination to do the office of a Sponsor for the Child which may rationally be thought to be more in them than in a stranger and we think it a gross abuse to admit of other Sponsors except in the want of Parents or their Inhability I think also considering things as they are not barely in the notions that men have of things that they will defend this practice is fallen into such abuse that even that should make it be laid aside for it is manifest and most common that God-fathers and God-mothers are chosen most unqualified for and most unconcerned in that which they make a solemn promise to God to perform which is a horrid mocking of Him and his Ordinances Are not Boys and Girls chosen or Debauched and Ignorant Persons or Strangers that may be shall never see the Child again nor mind it except it be to send it a new Coat Sect. 9. The Dr. telleth us of Mr. Cartwright yea and all Protestant Churches approving of this But will he say that they are for Excluding the Parents which is the very thing that we controvert For as the Dr. confesseth Can. 29. Ordaineth That Parents need not be Present and that they shall not be admitted to Answer that is they must not undertake for the instruction and education of their own Child But saith he The Parents are to provide such as are Fit. I desire to know what Warrant is for this even from sound reason Who can be so Fit by his opportunity and care as the Parent And if he be wholly unfit as to understanding and respect to true Religion we are not against his having a Deputy in that Case that it is done with the Parents consent is better so than otherwise but that the Parent can transfer his right to another is without all reason unless the Person to whom such a Translation is made do really take the education of the Child which though by a private compact between the Parent and Sponsor might be done yet what shadow of reason can be for a Canon compelling every Parent to do it It is saith he but like an occasion of absence to wit of the Parent in which case all allow of a Sponsor Ans. It is no way like it for the one hath necessity to warrant it the other hath nothing but mens will or superstitious conceit Is it alike for the State to make a Law that neighbours should feed and cloath the Orphans of poor Parents and to make a Law that they shall feed and cloath the Children of their rich Neighbours who are alive The case is just so here It is an injury to a man to have his Child taken from him without a cause and given to another to be educated so it is to be obliged yea forced to transfer upon another all that right he hath to represent his own child and to engage for his education He saith it is not the Churches intention to supersede the obligation of the Parent but to superinduce a further obligation upon other Persons Had the Parent been permitted to undertake for the Child jointly with the Sponsors there had been some colour for this assertion but that being expresly denied by the Canon it is evident that the Church doth what she can to make the Parent think that no obligation at all lyeth on him I meddle not with his debate against Mr. B. about Mr. B's Argument against Sponsors from the Childs having right to Baptism only from the Parents many learned men differ from Mr. B. in that and I shall not digress to dispute it Sect. 10. The Dr. pag. 386. saith he findeth nothing particularly objected against Kneeling at the Communion that deserveth consideration which he hath not answered in another place to wit Conferences First Part which Book I have not seen wherefore I shall in a few words lay down our Ground of Scrupling that Practice and so leave it We do not scruple Kneeling at Prayer which is joyned with receiving of that Sacrament nor do we deny that all possible reverence should be used in going about that Holy Ordinance but we think the expression of that Reverence should be of Gods appointing in his Word or grounded on Nature or civil Custom and not instituted by mans Will. 1. Then we scruple it because it is an uncommanded Act of Worship that it is Worship I think will not be denyed Kneeling in Prayer cannot be denyed to be an Act of external Worship no more than this That it is uncommanded we must believe till they shew us a Command for it They alledge that Kneeling being unquestionable a fit gesture to express Humility and Adoration it cannot be unfit but needful in this Case where both are required To this I reply Humility is not fitly expressed by Kneeling though Adoration be and therefore we think Kneeling in the Act of Receiving to be no fit gesture because Adoreing however needful it be in the complex Action of Communicating to wit before and after Receiving the Elements it is not the Souls work in that Act Believing or Covenanting with God is the proper Exercise of the Soul in that Act which is a solemn sealing of the Covenant and this Covenanting is very unfitly expressed by Kneeling He that is about solemn Prayer or Adoration which might be well expressed by Kneeling in the Act of receiving that Sacrament doth little know or consider the nature and use of it whence I form our Argument thus that Religious Gesture which is neither