Assistance of Foreign and borrowed Succours Truth makes way into our Vnderstanding by her own Light and is but the weaker for any borrowed Force that Violence can add to her These words of his how hard soever they may seem to you may help you to conceive how he should think to do Service to True Religion by recommending and perswading such a Toleration as he proposed And now pray tell me your self whether you do not think True Religion would be a gainer by it if such a Toleration establish'd there would permit the Doctrine of the Church of England to be freely preached and its Worship set up in any Popish Mahumetan or Pagan Country If you do not you have a very ill Opinion of the Religion of the Church of England and must own that it can only be propagated and supported by Force If you think it would gain in those Countries by such a Toleration you are then of the Author's Mind and do not find it so hard to conceive how the recommending such a Toleration might do Service to that which you think True Religion But if you allow such a Toleration useful to Truth in other Countries you must find something very peculiar in the Air that must make it less useful to Truth in England And 't will savour of much partiality and be too absurd I fear for you to own that Toleration will be advantagious to True Religion all the World over except only in this Island Though I much suspect this as absurd as it is lies at the bottom And you build all you say upon this lurking Supposition that the National Religion now in England back'd by the Publick Authority of the Law is the only True Religion and therefore no other is to be tolerated Which being a Supposition equally unavoidable and equally just in other Countries unless we can imagine that every where but in England Men believe what at the same time they think to be a Lie will in other Places exclude Toleration and thereby hinder Truth from the means of propagating it self What the Fruits of Toleration are which in the next words you complain do remain still among us and which you say give no Encouragement to hope for any Advantages from it what Fruits I say these are or whether they are owing to the want or wideness of Toleration among us we shall then be able to judg when you tell us what they are In the mean time I will boldly say that if the Magistrates will severely and impartially set themselves against Vice in whomsoever it is found and leave Men to their own Consciences in their Articles of Faith and Ways of Worship True Religion will be spread wider and be more fruitful in the Lives of its Professors than ever hitherto it has been by the imposition of Creeds and Ceremonies You tell us that no Man can fail of sinding the Way of Salvation who seeks it as he ought I wonder you had not taken notice in the places you quote for this how we are directed there to the right way of seeking The words John vii 17. are If any Man will do his Will he shall know of the Doctrine whether it be of God And Psalm XXV 9 12 14. which are also quoted by you tell us The Meek will he guide in Judgment and the Meek will he teach his Way What Man is he that feareth the Lord him shall he teach in the Way that he shall chuse The Secret of the Lord is with them that fear him and he will shew them his Covenant So that these places if they prove what you cite them for that no Man can fail of finding the Way of Salvation who seeks it as he ought they do also prove that a good Life is the only way to seek as we ought and that therefore the Ma istrates if they would put Men upon seeking the way of Salvation as they ought should by their Laws and Penalties force them to a good Life A good Conversation being the readiest and surest way to a right Understanding Punishments and Severities thus apply'd we are sure are both practicable just and useful How Punishments will prove in the way you contend for we shall see when we come to consider it Having given us these broad Marks of your Good-will to Toleration you tell us 'T is not your Design to argue against it but only to enquire what our Author offers for the proof of his Assertion And then you give us this Scheme of his Argument 1. There is but one Way of Salvation or but one True Religion 2. No Man can be saved by this Religion who does not believe it to be the True Religion 3. This Belief is to be wrought in Men by Reason and Argument not by outward Force and Compulsion 4. Therefore all such Force is utterly of no use for the promoting True Religion and the Salvation of Souls 5. And therefore no Body can have any Right to use any Force or Compulsion for the bringing Men to the True Religion And you tell us the whole strength of what that Letter urged for the Purpose of it lies in this Argument Which I think you have no more reason to say than if you should tell us that only one Beam of a House had any strength in it when there are several others that would support the Building were that gone The purpose of the Letter is plainly to desend Toleration exempt from all Force especially Civil Force or the Force of the Magistrate Now if it be a true Consequence that Men must be tolerated if Magistrates have no Commission or Authority to punish them for Matters of Religion then the only strength of that Letter lies not in the unfitness of Force to convince Mens Vnderstanding Vid. Let. p. 7. Again If it be true that Magistrates being as liable to Error as the rest of Mankind their using of Force in Matters of Religion would not at all advance the Salvation of Mankind allowing that even Force could work upon them and Magistrates had Authority to use it in Religion then the Argument you mention is not the only one in that Letter of strength to prove the Necessity of Toleration V. Let. P. 8. For the Argument of the unsitness of Force to convince Mens Minds being quite taken away either of the other would be a strong proof for Toleration But let us consider the Argument as you have put it The two first Propositions you say you agree to As to the Third you grant that Force is very improper to be used to induce the Mind to assent to any Truth But yet you deny that Force is utterly useless for the promoting True Religion and the Salvation of Mens Souls which you call the Author's 4th Proposition But indeed that is not the Author's 4th Proposition or any Proposition of his to be sound in the Pages you quote or any where else in the whole Letter either in those terms or
A SECOND LETTER CONCERNING TOLERATION LICENSED June 24. 1690. LONDON Printed for Awnsham and John Churchill at the Black Swan in Ave-Mary-Lane near Pater-Noster-Row M DC XC TO THE AUTHOR OF THE Argument of the Letter concerning Toleraration briefly considered and answered SIR YOU will pardon me if I take the same Liberty with you that you have done with the Author of the Letter concerning Toleration to consider your Arguments and endeavour to shew you the Mistakes of them For since you have so plainly yeilded up the Question to him and do own that the Severities he would disswà de Christians from are utterly unapt and improper to bring Men to imbrace that Truth which must save them I am not without some hopes to prevail with you to do that your self which you say is the only justifiable Aim of Men differing about Religion even in the use of the severest Methods viz. Carefully and impartially to weigh the whole matter and thereby to remove that Prejudice which makes you yet favour some Remains of Persecution Promising my self that so ingenious a Person will either be convinced by the Truth which appears so very clear and evident to me or else confess that were either you or I in Authority we should very unreasonably and very unjustly use any Force upon the other which differ'd from him upon any pretence of want of Examination And if Force be not to be used in your case or mine because unreasonable or unjust you will I hope think fit that it should be forborn in all others where it will be equally unjust and unreasonable as I doubt not but to make it appear it will unavoidably be where ever you will go about to punish Men for want of Consideration For the true way to try such Speculations as these is to see how they will prove when they are reduc'd into Practice The first thing you seem startled at in the Author's Letter is the largeness of the Toleration he proposes And you think it strange that he would not have so much as a Pagan Mahumetan or Jew excluded from the Civil Rights of the Commonwealth because of his Religion We pray every day for their Conversion and I think it our Duty so to do But it will I fear hardly be believed that we pray in earnest if we exclude them from the other ordinary and probable means of Conversion either by driving them from or persecuting them when they are amongst us Force you allow is improper to convert Men to any Religion Toleration is but the removing that Force So that why those should not be tolerated as well as others if you wish their Conversion I do not see But you say it seems hard to conceive how the Author of that Letter should think to do any Service to Religion in general or to the Christian Religion by recommending and perswading such a Toleration For how much soever it may tend to the Advancement of Trade and Commerce which some seem to place above all other Considerations I see no reason from any Experiment that has been made to expect that true Religion would be a gainer by it that it would be either the better preserved the more widely propagated or rendred any whit the more fruitful in the Lives of its Professors by it Before I come to your Doubt it self Whether true Religion would be a gainer by such a Toleration give me leave to take notice that if by other Considerations you mean any thing but Religion your Parenthesis is wholly besides the matter and that if you do not know that the Author of the Letter places the Advancement of Trade above Religion your Insinuation is very uncharitable But I go on You see no reason you say from any Experiment that has been made to expect that true Religion would be a gainer by it True Religion and Christian Religion are I suppose to you and me the same thing But of this you have an Experiment in its first appearance in the World and several hundreds of Years after It was then better preserv'd more widely propagated in proportion and render'd more fruitful in the Lives of its Professors than ever since tho then Jews and Pagans were tolerated and more than tolerated by the Governments of those places where it grew up I hope you do not imagine the Christian Religion has lost aâ—… of its first Beauty Force or Reasonableness by having been â—…most 2000 Years in the World that you should fear it should be less able now to shift for it self without the help of Force I doubt not but you look upon it still to be the Poâ—…er and Wisdom of God for our Salvation and therefore cannot suspect it less capable to prevail now by its own Truth and Light than it did in the first Ages of the Church when poor contemptible Men without Authority or the countenance of Authority had alone the care of it This as I take it has been made use of by Christians generally and by some of our Church in particular as an Argument for the Truth of the Christian Religion that it grew and spread and prevailed without any Aid from Force or the Assistance of the Powers in being And if it be a mark of the true Religion that it will prevail by its own Light and Strength but that false Religions will not but have need of Force and foreign Helps to support them nothing certainly can be more for the advantage of true Religion than to take away Compulsion every where And therefore it is no more hard to conceive how the Author of the Letter should think to do Service to Religion in general or to the Christian Religion than it is hard to conceive that he should think there is a true Religion and that the Christian Religion is it which its Professors have always own'd not to need Force and have urged that as a good Argument to prove the truth of it The Inventions of Men in Religion need the Force and Helps of Men to support them A Religion that is of God wants not the Assistance of Human Authority to make it prevail I guess when this dropp'd from you you had narrow'd your Thoughts to your own Age and Country But if you will enlarge them a little beyond the Consines of England I do not doubt but you will easily imagine that if in Italy Spain Portugal c. the Inquisition and in France their Dragooning and in other parts those Severities that are used to keep or force Men to the National Religion were taken away and instead thereof the Toleration propos'd by the Author were set up the true Religion would be a gainer by it The Author of the Letter says Truth will do well enough if she were once left to shift for her self She seldom hath received and he fears never will receive much Assistance from the Power of great Men to whom she is but rarely known and more rarely welcome Errors indeed prevail by the
impartially to examine a Religion which they embraced upon such Inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the matter and therefore with little or no Examination of the proper Grounds of it What Human Method can be used to bring them to act like Men in an Affair of such Consequence and to make a wiser and more rational Choice but that of laying such Penalties upon them as may ballance the weight of those Prejudices which inclin'd them to prefer a false Way before the true and recover them to so much Sobriety and Reflection as seriously to put the Question to themselves Whether it be really worth the while to undergo such Inconveniencies for adhering to a Religion which for any thing they know may be false or for rejecting another if that be the case which for any thing they know may be true till they have brought it to the Bar of Reason and given it a fair trial there Here you again bring in such as prefer a false Way before a true To which having answered already I shall here say no more but that since our Church will not allow those to be in a false Way who are out of the Church of Rome because the Church of Rome which pretends Infallibity declares hers to be the only true Way certainly no one of our Church nor any other which claims not Infallibility can require any one to take the Testimony of any Church as a sufficient Proof of the Truth of her own Doctrine So that true and false as it commonly happens when we suppose them for our selves or our Party in essect signify just nothing or nothing to the purpose unless we can think that true or false in England which will not be so at Rome or Geneva and Vice versâ As for the rest of the Description of those on whom you are here laying Penalties I beseech you consider whether it will not belong to any of your Church let it be what it will Consider I say if there be none in your Church who have imbrac'd her Religion upon such Inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the matter and therefore with little or no Examination of the proper Grounds of it who have not been inclin'd by Prejudices who do not adhere to a Religion which for any thing they know may be false and who have rejected another which for any thing they know may be true If you have any such in your Communion and 't will be an admirable tho I fear but a little Flock that has none such in it consider well what you have done You have prepared Rods for them for which I imagine they will con you no Thanks For to make any tolerable Sense of what you here propose it must be understood that you would have Men of all Religions punished to make them consider whether it be really worth the while to undergo such Inconveniencies for adhering to a Religion which for any thing they know may be false If you hope to avoid that by what you have said of true and false and pretend that the supposed preference of the true Way in your Church ought to preserve its Members from your Punishment you manifestly triste For every Church's Testimony that it has chosen the true Way must be taken for it self and then none will be liable and your new Invention of Punishment is come to nothing Or else the differing Churches Testimonies must be taken one for another and then they will be all out of the tâ—…ue Way and your Church need Penalties as well as the rest So that upon your Principles they must all or none be punished Chuse which you please One of them I think you cannot escape What you say in the next words Where Instruction is stifly refused and all Admonitions and Perswasions prove vain and ineffectual differs nothing but in the way of expressing from Deaf to all Perswasions And so that is answer'd already In another place you give us another description of those you think ought to be punished in these words Those who refuse to embrace the Doctrine and submit to the Spiritual Government of the proper Ministers of Religion who by special designation are appointed to Exhort Admonish Reprove c. Here then those to be punished are such who refuse to imbrace the Doctrine and submit to the Government of the proper Ministers of Religion Whereby we are as much still at uncertainty as we were before who those are who by your Scheme and Laws suitable to it are to be punished Since every Church has as it thinks its proper Ministers of Religion And if you mean those that refuse to imbrace the Doctrine and submit to the Government of the Ministers of another Church then all Men will be guilty and must be punished even those of your Church as well as others If you mean those who refuse c. the Ministers of their own Church very few will incur your Penalties But if by these Proper Ministers of Religion the Ministers of some particular Church are intended why do you not name it Why are you so reserv'd in a Matter wherein if you speak not out all the rest that you say will be to no purpose Are Men to be punished for refusing to imbrace the Doctrine and submit to the Government of the proper Ministers of the Church of Geneva For this time since you have declared nothing to the contrary let me suppose you of that Church And then I am sure that is it that you would name For of what-ever Church you are if you think the Ministers of any one Church ought to be hearken'd to and obey'd it must be those of your own There are Persons to be punished you say This you contend for all through your Book and lay so much stress on it that you make the Preservation and Propagation of Religion and the Salvation of Souls to depend on it And yet you describe them by so general and equivocal Marks that unless it be upon Suppositions which no Body will grant you I dare say neither you nor any Body else will be able to find one guilty Pray find me if you can a Man whom you can judicially prove for he that is to be punished by Law must be fairly tried is in a wrong way in respect of his Faith I mean who is deaf to all Perswasions who flies from all Means of a right Information who refuses to imbrace the Doctrine and submit to the Government of the Spiritual Pastors And when you have done that I think I may allow you what Power you please to punish him without any prejudice to the Toleration the Author of the Letter proposes But why I pray all this bogling all this loose talking as if you knew not what you meant or durst not speak it out Would you be for punishing some Body you know not whom I do not think so ill of you Let me then speak out for you
The Evidence of the Argument has convinced you that Men ought not to be persecuted for their Religion That the Severities in use amongst Christians cannot be defended That the Magistrate has not Authority to compel any one to his Religion This you are forced to yield But you would fain retain some Power in the Magistrate's Hands to punish Dissenters upon a new Pretence viz. not for having imbraced the Doctrine and Worship they believe to be True and Right but for not having well consider'd their own and the Magistrate's Religion To shew you that I do not speak wholly without-Book give me leave to mind you of one Passage of yours The words are Penalties to put them upon a sorious and impartial examination of the Controversy between the Magistrates and them Though these words be not intended to tell us who you would have punished yet it may be plainly inferr'd from them And they more clearly point out whom you aim at than all the foregoing places where you seem to and should describe them For they are such as between whom and the Magistrate there is a Controversy That is in short who differ from the Magistrate in Religion And now indeed you have given us a Note by which these you would have punished may be known We have with much ado found at last whom it is we may presume you would have punished Which in other Cases is usually not very difficult because there the Faults to be mended easily design the Persons to be corrected But yours is a new Method and unlike all that ever went before it In the next place Let us see for what you would have them punished You tell us and it will easily be granted you that not to examine and weigh impartially and without Prejudice or Passion all which for shortness-sake we will express by this one word Consider the Religion one embraces or refuses is a Fault very common and very prejudicial to true Religion and the Salvation of Mens Souls But Penalties and Punishments are very necessary say you to remedy this Evil. Let us see now how you apply this Remedy Therefore say you let all Dissenters be punished Why Have no Dissenters considered of Religion Or have all Conformists considered That you your self will not say Your Project therefore is just as reasonable as if a Lethargy growing Epidemical in England you should propose to have a Law made to blister and scarify and shave the Heads of all who wear Gowns Though it be certain that neither all who wear Gowns are Lethargick nor all who are Lethargick wear Gowns Dii te Damasippe Deaeque Verum ob consilium donent tonsore For there could not be certainly a more Learned Advice than that one Man should be pull'd by the Ears because another is asleep This when you have consider'd of it again for I find according to your Principle all Men have now and then need to be jog'd you will I guess be convinced is not like a fair Physician to apply a Remedy to a Disease but like an engag'd Enemy to vent one's Spleen upon a Party Common Sense as well as Common Justice requires that the Remedies of Laws and Penalties should be directed against the Evil that is to be removed where-ever it be found And if the Punishment you think so necessary be as you pretend to cure the Mischief you complain of you must let it pursue and fall on the Guilty and those only in what company soever they are And not as you here propose and is the highest Injustice punish the Innocent considering Dissenteâ—… with the Guilty and on the other side let the inconsiderate guilty Conformist scape with the Innocent For one may rationally presume that the National Church has some nay more in proportion of those who little consider or concern themselves about Religion than any Congregation of Dissenters For Conscience or the Care of their Souls being once laid aside Interest of course leads Men into that Society where the Protection and Countenance of the Government and hopes of Preferment bid fairest to all their remaining Desires So that if careless negligent inconsiderate Men in Matters of Religion who without being forced would not consider are to be roused into a care of their Souls and a search after Truth by Punishments The National Religion in all Countries will certainly have a right to the greatest share of those Punishments at least not to be wholly exempt from them This is that which the Author of the Letter as I remember complains of and that justly viz. That the pretended Care of Mens Souls always expresses it self in those who would have Force any way made use of to that end in very unequâ—…l Methods some Persons being to be treated with Severity whilst others guilty of the same Faults are not to be so much as touched Though you are got pretty wâ—…ll out of the deep Mud and renounce Punishments directly for Religion yet you stick still in this part of the Mire whilst you would have Dissenters punished to make them consider but would not have any thing done to Conformists tho never so negligent in this point of considering The Author's Letter pleas'd me because it is equal to all Mankind is direct and will I think hold every where which I take to be a good Mark of Truth For I shall always suspect that neither to comport with the Truth of Religion or the Design of the Gospel which is suited to only some one Country or Party What is True and Good in England will be True and Good at Rome too in China or Geneva But whether your great and only Method for the propagating of Truth by bringing the Inconsiderate by Punishments to consider would according to your way of applying your Punishments only to Dissenters from the National Religion be of use in those Countries or any where but where you suppose the Magistrate to be in the Right judg you Pray Sir consider a little whether Prejudice has not some share in your way of Arguing For this is your Position Men are generally negligent in examining the Grounds of their Religion This I grant But could there be a more wild and incoherent Consequence drawn from it than this Therefore Dissenters must be punished But that being laid aside let us now see to what end they must be punished Sometimes it is To bring them to consider those Reasons and Arguments which are proper and sufficient to convince them Of what That it is not easy to set Grantham Steeple upon Paul's Church What-ever it be you would have them convinced of you are not willing to tell us And so it may be any thing Sometimes it is To incline them to lend an Ear to those who tell them they have mistaken their Way and offer to shew them the Right Which is to lend an Ear to all who differ from them in Religion as well crafty Seducers as others Whether this be for the procuring
way to make some Men imbrace the Peripatetick Philosophy but not a proper way to find the Truth For perhaps the Peripatetick Philosophy may not be true perhaps a great many have not time nor Parts to Study it perhaps a great many who have studied it cannot be convinced of the truth of it And therefore it cannot be a benefit to the Commonwealth nor one of the Ends of it that these Members of the Society should be disturb'd and diseas'd to no purpose when they are guilty of no fault For just the same reason it cannot be a benefit to â—…ivil Society that Men should be pun shed in Denmark for not being Luâ—…rans in Geneva for not being Calvinists and in Viâ—…nna for not being Papists as a means to make them find out the true Religion For so upon your grounds Men most be treated in those places as well as in England for not being of the Church of England And then I beseech you consider the great benefit will accrue to Men in Society by this method And I suppose it will be a hard thing for you to prove That ever Civil Governments were instituted to punâ—…sh Men for not being of this or that Sect in Religion however by accident indirectly and at a distance it may be an occasion to one perhaps of a thousand or an hundred to study that Controversy which is all you expect from it If it be a Benefit pray tell me what Benefit it is A Civil Benefit it cannot be For Mens Civil Interests are disturb'd injur'd and impair'd by it And what Spiritual Benefit that can be to any multitude of Men to be punâ—…shed for Dissenting from a false or erroneous Prosession I would have you sind out unless it be a Spiritual Benefit to be in danger to be driven into a wrong way For if in all differing Sects one is in the wrong 't is a hundred to one but that from which one Dissents and is punished for Dissenting from is the wrong I grant it is past doubt That the Nature of Man is so covetous of Good that no one would have excluded from any Action he does or from any Institution he is concerned in any manner of Good or Benefit that it might any way yeild And if this be your meaning it will not be denied you But then you speak very improperly or rather very mistakenly if you call such benefits as may any way i. e. indirectly and at a distance or by accident be attain'd by Civil or any other Society the Ends for which it is instituted Nothing can in reason be reckon'd amongst the Ends of any Sâ—…ty but what may in reason be supposed to be designed by those who enter into it â—…ow no body can in reason suppose that any one entâ—…ed into Civil Society for the procuring securing or advancing the salvation of his Soulâ—… when he for that end needed not the Force of Civil Society The procuring therefore sâ—…ing and advancing the Spiritual and Eâ—…ernal Interest of men cannot in reason be reckon'd amongst the Ends of Civil Societies Tho perhaps it might so fall out that in some particular instance some mans spiritual Interest might be advanced by your or any other way of applying Civil Force A Nobleman whose Chappel is decayed or â—…allen may make â—…se of his Dining-room for Praying and Preaching Yet whatever 〈◊〉 were attainable by this use of the room no body can in reason reckon this among the Ends for which it was built no more than the accidental breeding of some Bird in any part of it tho it were a Benefit it yielded could in reason be reckon'd among the Ends of building the House But say you Doubtless Commonwealths are instituted for the attaining of all the Bâ—…nefits which pelitical Government can yield and therefore if the Spiritual and Etâ—…rnal Interests of men may any way be procur'd or advanc'd by Pâ—…litical Government the procuring and advancing those Interests must in all reason be reckâ—…n'd amongst the Eâ—…ds of Civil Sâ—…ciety and so conâ—…quently fall within the compass of the Magistrates Jurisdiction Upon the same Grounds I thus reason Doubtless Churches are instituted â—…or the attaining of all the Benefits which Ecclesiastical Government can yield And therefore if the Temporal and Secular Interests â—…f men maâ—… any way be procured or advanced by Ecclesiasticâ—…l Polâ—…y the 〈◊〉 and advancing those Interests must in all reason be reckoned among the Ends of Religious Societies and so consequently fall within the compass of Church-mens Jurisdiction The Church of Rome has openly made its advantage of Secular Interests to be precured or advanced indirectly and at a distance and in ordâ—…e ad spiritualia all which ways if I mistake not English are comprehended under your any way But I do not remember that any of the Reformed Churches have hitherto directly professed it But there is a time for all things And if the Commonwealth once invades the spiritual Ends of the Church by medling with the Salvation of Souls which she has alway been so tender of who can deny that the Church should have liberty to make her self some amends by Reprisals But Sir however you and I may argue from wrong suppositions yet unless the Apostle Eph. 4 where he reckons up the Church-Officers which Christ had instituted in his Churh had told us they were for some other Ends than for the perfecting of the Saints for the work of the Ministry for the edifying of the Body of Christ the advancing of their secular Interests will scarce be allow'd to be their business or within the compass of their Jurisdiction Nor till it can be shewn that Civil Society is instituted for Spiritual Ends or that the Magistrate has commission to interpose his Authority or use Force in matters of Religion your supposition of Spiritual Benefits indirectly and at a distance attainable by Political Government will never prove the advancing of those Interests by Force to be the Magistrates business and to fall within the compass of his Jurisdiction And till then the Force of the Arguments which the Author has brought against it in the 7th and following Pages of his Letter will hold good Common-wealths or Civil Societies and Governments if you will believe the judicious Mr. Hooker are as St. Peter calls them 1 Pet. 2.13 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the contrivance and institution of man and he shews there for what end viz. for the Punishment of evil doers and the praise of them that do well I do not find any where that it is for the punishment of those who are not in Church Communion with the Magistrate to make them study Controversies in Religion or hearken to those who will tell them they have mistaken their way and offer to show them the right one You must shew them such a Commission if you say it is from God And in all Societies instituted by man the Ends of them can be no other than what the Institutors appointed which I am sure
do so For however you have put it thus as you have fram'd the Author's Argument Force is utterly of no use for the promoting of true Religion and the Salvation of Souls and therefore no body can have any right to use any Force or Compulsion for the bringing Men to the true Religion yet the Author does not in those Pages you quote make the latter of these Propositions an Inference barely from the former but makes use of it as a Truth proved by several Arguments he had before brought to that purpose For tho it be a good Argument it is not useful therefore not fit to be used yet this will not be good Logick it is useful therefore any one has a right to use it For if the Vsefulness makes it lawful it makes it lawful in any hands that can so apply it and so private Men may use it Who can deny say you but that Force indirectly and at a distance may do some Service towards the bringing Men to imbrace that Truth which otherwise they would never acquaint themselves with If this be good arguing in you for the usefulness of Force towards the saving of Mens Souls give me leave to argue after the same fashion 1. I will suppose which you will not deny me that as there are many who take up their Religion upon wrong Grounds to the indangering of their Souls so there are many that abandon themselves to the heat of their Lusts to the indangering of their Souls 2dly I will suppose that as Force apply'd your way is apt to make the Inconsiderate consider so Force apply'd another way is as apt to make the Lascivious chaste The Argument then in your form will stand thus Who can deny but that Force indirectly and at a distance may by Castration do some Service towards bringing Men to imbrace that Chastity which otherwise they would never acquaint themselves with Thus you see Castration may indirectly and at a distance be serviceable towards the Salvation of Mens Souls But will you say from such an usefulness as this because it may indirectly and at a distance conduce to the saving of any of his Subjects Souls that therefore the Magistrate has a right to do it and may by Force make his Subjects Eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven It is not for the Magistrate or any body else upon an Imagination of its Vsefulness to make use of any other means for the Salvation of Mens Souls than what the Author and Finisher of our Faith hath directed You may be mistaken in what you think useful Dives thought and so perhaps should you and I too if not better inform'd by the Scriptures that it would bâ—… useful to rouze and awaken Men if one should come to them from the Dead But he was mistaken And we are told that if Men will not hearken to Moses and the Prophets the means appointed neither will the Strangeness nor Terror of one coming from the Dead perswade them If what we are apt to think useful were thence to be concluded so we should I fear be obliged to believe the Miracles pretended to by the Church of Rome For Miracles we know were once useful for the promoting true Religion and the Salvation of Souls which is more than you can say for your Political Punishments But yet we must conclude that God thinks them not useful now unless we will say that which without Impiety cannot be said that the Wise and Benign Disposer and Governour of all things does not now use all useful means for promoting his own Honour in the World and the Good of Souls I think this Consequence will hold as well as what you draw in near the same words Let us not therefore be more wise than our Maker in that stupendious and supernatural Work of our Salvation The Scripture that reveals it to us contains all that we can know or do in order to it and where that is silent 't is in us Presumption to direct When you can shew any Commission in Scripture for the use of Force to compel Men to hear any more than to imbrace the Doctrine of others that differ from them we shall have reason to submit to it and the Magistrate have some ground to set up this new way of Persecution But till then 't will be sit for us to obey that Precept of the Gospel which bids us take heed what we hear So that hearing is not always so useful as you suppose If it had we should never have had so direct a Caution against it 'T is not any imaginary Vsefulness you can suppose which can make that a punishable Crime which the Magistrate was never authorized to meddle with Go and teach all Nations was a Commission of our Saviour's But there was not added to it Punish those that will not hear and consider what you say No but if they will not receive you shake off the Dust of your Feet leave them and apply your selves to some others And St. Paul knew no other means to make Men hear but the preaching of the Gospel as will appear to any one who will read Romans the 10th 14 c. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God You go on and in favour of your beloved Force you tell us that it is not only useful but needful And here after having at large in the four following Pages set out the Negligence or Aversion or other hinderances that keep Men from examining with that application and freedom of Judgment they should the Grounds upon which they take up and persist in their Religion you come to conclude Force necessary Your words are If Men are generally averse to a due Consideration of things where they are most concerned to use it if they usually take up their Religion without examining it as they ought and then grow so opinionative and so stiff in their Prejudice that neither the gentlest Admonitions nor the most earnest Intreaties shall ever prevail with them afterwards to do it what means is there left besides the Grace of God to reduce those of them that are got into a wrong Way but to lay Thorns and Briars in it That since they are deaf to all Perswasions the uneasiness they meet with may at least put them to a stand and incline them to lend an Ear to those who tell them they have mistaken their way and offer to shew them the right way What means is there left say you but Force What to do To reduce Men who are out of it into the right way So you tell us here And to that I say there is other means besides Force that which was appointed and made use of from the beginning the Preaching of the Gospel But say you to make them hear to make them consider to make them examine there is no other means but Punishment and therefore it is necessary I answer 1st What if God for Reasons best known to himself would not have
Men compell'd to hear but thought the good Tidings of Salvation and the Proposals of Life and Death Means and Inducements enough to make them hear and consider now as well as heretofore Then your Means your Punishments are not necessary What if God would have Men left to their freedom in this Point if they will hear or if they will forbear will you constrain them Thus we are sure he did with his own People And this when they were in Captivity And 't is very like were ill treated for being of a different Religion from the National and so were punished as Dissenters Yet then God expected not that those Punishments should force them to hearken more than at other times As appears by Ezek. 3.11 And this also is the Method of the Gospel We are Ambassadors for Christ as if God did beseech by us we pray in Christ's stead says St. Paul 2 Cor. v. 20. If God had thought it necessary to have Men punish'd to make them give Ear he could have call'd Magistrates to be Spreaders and Ministers of the Gospel as well as poor Fisher-men or Paul a Persecutor who yet wanted not Power to punish where Punishment was necessary as is evident in Ananias and Sapphira and the incestuous Corinthian 2ly What if God foreseeing this Force would be in the hands of Men as passionate as humoursome as liable to Prejudice and Error as the rest of their Brethren did not think it a proper Means to bring Men into the Right Way 3ly What if there be other Means Then yours ceases to be necessary upon the account that there is no means left For you your self allow That the Grace of God is another means And I suppose you will not deny it to be both a proper and sufficient Means and which is more the only Means such Means as can work by it self and without which all the Force in the World can do nothing God alone can open the Ear that it may hear and open the Heart that it may understand and this he does in his own good Time and to whom he is graciously pleas'd but not according to the Will and Phancy of Man when he thinks sit by Punishments to compel his Brethren If God has pronounced against any Person or People what he did against the Jews Isa. 6.10 Make the Heart of this People fat and make their Ears heavy and shut their Eyes lest they see with their Eyes and hear with their Ears and understand with their Hearts and convert and be healed Will all the Force you can use be a Means to make them hear and understand and be converted But Sir to return your Argument You see no other Means left taking the World as we now find it to make Men throughly and impartially examine a Religion which they imbraced upon such Inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the Matter and with little or no examination of the proper Grounds of it And thence you conclude the use of Force by the Magistrate upon Dissenters necessary And I say I see no other Means left taking the World as we now find it wherein the Magistrates never lay Penalties for Matters of Religion upon those of his own Church nor is it to be expected they ever should to make Men of the National Church any where throughly and impartially examine a Religion which they imbraced upon such Inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the Matter and therefore with little or no examination of the proper Grounds of it And therefore I conclude the use of Force by Dissentâ—…rs upon Conformists necessary I appeal to the World whether this be not as just and natural a Conclusion as yours Though if you will have my Opinion I think the more genuine Consequence is that Force to make Men examine Matters of Religion is not necessary at all But you may take which of these Consequences you please Both of them I am sure you cannot avoid It is not for you and me out of an imagination that they may be useful or are necessary to prescribe means in the great and mysterious Work of Salvation other than what God himself has directed God has appointed Force as useful and necessary and therefore it is to be used is a way of Arguing becoming the Ignorance and Humility of poor Creatures But I think Force useful or necessary and therefore it is to be used has methinks a little too much presumption in it You ask What Means else is there left None say I to be used by Man but what God himself has directed in the Scriptures wherein are contained all the Means and Methods of Salvation Faith is the Gift of God And we are not to use any other Means to procure this Gift to any one but what God himself has prescribed If he has there appointed that any should be forced to hear those who tell them they have mistaken their way and offer to shew them the right and that they should be punished by the Magistrate if they did not 't will be past doubt it is to be made use of But till that can be done 't will be in vain to say what other Means is there left If all the Means God has appointed to make Men hear and consider be Exhortation in Season and out of Season c. together with Prayer for them and the Example of Meekness and a good Life this is all ought to be done Whether they will hear or whether they will forbear By these means the Gospel at first made it self to be heard through a great part of the World and in a crooked and perverse Generation led away by Lusts Humours and Prejudice as well as this you complain of prevail'd with Men to hear and imbrace the Truth and take care of their own Souls without the assistance of any such Force of the Magistrate which you now think needful But whatever Neglect or Aversion there is in some Men impartially and throughly to be instructed there will upon a due Examination I fear be found no less a Neglect and Aversion in others impartially and throughly to instruct them 'T is not the talking even general Truths in plain and clear Language much less a Man 's own Fancies in Scholastick or uncommon ways of speaking an hour or two once a week in publick that is enough to instruct even willing Hearers in the way of Salvation and the Grounds of their Religion They are not Politick Discourses which are the means of right Information in the Foundations of Religion For with such sometimes venting Antimonarchical Principles sometimes again preaching up nothing but absolute Monarchy and Passive Obedience as the one or other have been in vogue and the way to Preferment have our Churches rung in their turns so loudly that Reasons and Arguments proper and sufficient to convince Men of the Truth in the controverted Points of Religion and to direct them in the right way to Salvation were scarce
the Salvation of their Souls the End for which you say this Force is to be used judg you But this I am sure Whoever will lend an Ear to all who will tell them they are out of the Way will not have much time for any other Business Sometimes it is To recover Men to so much Sobriety and Reflection as seriously to put the Question to themselves Whether it be really worth their while to undergo such Inconveniences for adhering to a Religion which for any thing they know may be false or for rejecting another if that be the case which for ought they know may be true till they have brought it to the Bar of Reason and given it a fair Trial there Which in short amounts to thus much viz. To make them examine whether their Religion be True and so worth the holding under those Penalties that are annexed to it Dissenters are indebted to you for your great care of their Souls But what I beseech you shall become of those of the National Church every where which make sar the greater part of Mankind who have no such Punishments to make them consider who have not this only Remedy provided sor them but are lest in that deplorable Condition you mention of being suffer'd quietly and without Molestation to take no care at all of their Souls or in doing of it to follow their own Prejudices Humours or some crafty Seducers Need not those of the National Church as well as others bring their Religion to the Bar of Reason and give it a fair trial there And if they need to do so as they must if all National Religions cannot be supposed true they will always need that which you say is the only means to make them do so So that if you are sure as you tell us that there is need of your Method I am sure there is as much need of it in National Churches as any other And so for ought I can see you must either punish them or let others alone Unless you think it reasonable that the sar greater part of Mankind should constantly be without that Soveraign and only Remedy which they stand in need of equally with other People Sometimes the end for which Men must be punished is to dispose them to submit to Instruction and to give a fair hearing to the Reasons are offer'd for the inliâ—…htning their Minds and discovering the Truth to them If their own words may be taken for it there are as sew Dissenters as Consormists in any Country who will not profess they have done and do this And if their own word may not be taken who I pray must be judg You and your Magistrates If so then it is plain you punish them not to dispose them to submit to Instruction but to your Instruction not to dispose them to give a fair hearing to Reasons offer'd for the inlightning their Minds but to give an obedient hearing to your Reasons If you mean this it had been sairer and shorter to have spoken out plainly than thus in fair words of indesinite Signification to say that which amounts to nothing For what Sense is it to punish a Man to dispose him to submit to Instruction and give a fair hearing to Reasons offer'd for the inlightning his Mind and discovering Truth to him who â—…s two or three times a week several 〈◊〉 on purpâ—…se to do iâ—… and that with the hazard of his Liberty or Purse 〈◊〉 you mean your Instructions your Reasons your Truth Which brings us but back to what you have disclaimed plain Persecution for differing in Religion Sometimes this is to be done To prevail with Men to weigh Matters of Religion carefully and impartially Discountenance and Punishment put into one Scale with Impunity and hopes of Preferment put into the other is as sure a way to make a Man weigh impartially as it would be for a Prince to bribe and threaten a Judg to make him judg uprightly Sometimes it is To make Men bethink themselves and put it out of the power of any foolish Humor or unreasonable Prejudice to alienate them from Truth and their own Happiness Add but this to put it out of the power of any Humour or Prejudice of their own or other Mens and I grant the end is good if you can find the means to procure it But why it should not be put out of the Power of other Mens Humour or Prejudice as well as their own wants and will always want a Reason to prove Would it not I beseech you to an indifferent By-stander appear Humour or Prejudice or some thing as bad to see Men who profess a Religion reveal'd from Heaven and which they own contains all in it necessary to Salvation exclude Men from their Communion and persecute them with the Penalties of the Civil Law for not joining in the use of Ceremonies which are no where to be found in that reveal'd Religion Would it not appear Humour or Prejudice or some such thing to a sober impartial Heathen to see Christians exclude and persecute one of the same Faith for things which they themselves confess to be indifferent and not worth the contending for Prejudice Humour Passion Lusts Impressions of Education Reverence and Admiration of Persons Worldly Respects Love of their own Choice and the like to which you justly impute many Mens taking up and persisting in their Religion are indeed good words and so on the other side are these following Truth the right Way inlightning Reason sound Judgment but they signify nothing at all to your purpose till you can evidently and unquestionably shew the World that the latter viz. Truth and the right way c. are always and in all Countries to be found only in the National Church and the former viz. Passion and Prejudice c. only amongst the Dissenters But to go on Sometimes it is To bring Men to take such care as they ought of their Salvation What care is such as Men ought to take whilst they are out of your Church will be hard for you to tell me But you endeavour to explain your self in the following words that they may not blindly leave it to the choice neither of any other Person nor yet of their own Lusts and Passions to prescribe to them what Faith or Worship they shall imbrace You do well to make use of Punishment to shut Passion out of the choice because you know fear of suffering is no Passion But let that pass You would have Men punished to bring them to take such care of their Salvation that they may not blindly leave it to the choice of any other Person to prescribe to them Are you sincere Are you in earnest Tell me then truly Did the Magistrate or National Church any where or yours in particular ever punish any Man to bring him to have this care which you say he ought to take of his Salvation Did you ever punish any
Man that he might not blindly leave it to the choice of his Parish-Priest or Bishop or the Convocation what Faith or Worship he should imbrace 'T will be suspected care of a Party or any thing else rather than care of the Salvation of Mens Souls if having found out so useful so necessary a Remedy the only Method there is room left for you will apply it but partially and make trial of it only on those who you have truly least kindness for This will unavoidably give one Reason to imagine you do not think so well of your Remedy as you pretend who are so sparing of it to your Friends but are very free of it to Strangers who in other things are used very much like Enemies But your Remedy is like the Helleboraster that grew in the Woman's Garden for the cure of Worms in her Neighbours Children For truly it wrought too roughly to give it to any of her own Methinks your Charity in your present Persecution is much what as prudent as justisiable as that good Woman's I hope I have done you no Injury that I here suppose you of the Church of England If I have I beg your Pardon It is no offence of Malice I I assure you For I suppose no worse of you than I confess of my self Sometimes this Punishment that you contend for is to bring Men to act according to Reason and sound Judgment Tertius è Coelo cecidit Cato This is Reformation indeed If you can help us to it you will deserve Statues to be erected to you as to the Restorer of decay'd Religion But if all Men have not Reason and sound Judgment will Punishment put it into them Besides concerning this matter Mankind is so divided that he acts according to Reason and sound Judgment at Auspurg who who would be judged to do the quite contrary at Edinburgh Will Punishment make Men know what is Reason and sound Judgment If it will not 't is impossible it should make them act according to it Reason and sound Judgment are the Elixir it self the universal Remedy And you may as reasonably punish Men to bring them to have the Philosopher's Stone as to bring them to act according to Reason and sound Judgment Sometimes it is To put Men upon a serious and impartial Examination of the Controversy between the Magistrate and them which is the way for them to come to the Knowledg of the Truth But what if the Truth be on neither side as I am apt to imagine you will think it is not where neither the Magistrate nor the Dissenter is either of them of your Church how will the examining the Controversy between the Magistrate and him be the way to come to the Knowledg of the Truth Suppose the Controversy between a Lutheran and a Papist or if you please between a Presbyterian Magistrate and a Quaker Subject Will the examining the Controversy between the Magistrate and the Dissenting Subject in this case bring him to the Knowledg of the Truth If you say yes then you grant one of these to have the Truth on his side For the examining the Controversy between a Presbyterian and a Quaker leaves the Controversy either of them has with the Church of England or any other Church untouched And so one at least of those being already come to the Knowledg of the Truth ought not to be put under your Discipline of Punishment which is only to bring him to the Truth If you say no and that the examining the Controversy between the Magistrate and the Dissenter in this case will not bring him to the Knowledg of the Truth you consess your Rule to be salse and your Method to no purpose To conclude your System is in short this You would have all Men laying aside Prejudice Humour Passion c. examin the Grounds of their Religion and search for the Truth This I consess is heartily to be wish'd The means that you propose to make Men do this is that Dissenters should be punished to make them do so It is as if you had said Men generally are guilty of a Fault therefore lâ—…t one Sect who have the ill luck to be of an Opinion different from the Magistrate be punished This at first sight shocks any who has the least spark of Sense Reason or Justice But having spoken of this already and concluding that upon second thoughts you your self will be ashamed of it let us consider it put so as to be consistent with common Sense and with all the advantage it can bear and then let us see what you can make os it Men are negligent in examining the Religions they imbrace refuse or persist in therefore it is sit they should be punished to make them do it This is a Conâ—…e indeed which may without desiance to common Sâ—…nse be drawn from it This is the use the only use which you think Punishment can indirectly and at a distance have in matters of Religion You would have Men by Punishments dâ—…iven to examine What Religion To what end To bring them to the Knowledg of the Truth But I answer First Every one has not the Ability to do this Secondly Every one has not the opportunity to do it Would you have every poor Protestant for Example in the Palatinate examine throughly whether the Pope bâ—… insalliblâ—… or Head of the Church whether there be a Purgatory whether Saints are to be pray'd to or the Dead pray'd sor whether the Sâ—…ripture be the only Rule of Faith whether there be no Salvantion out of the Church and whether there be no Church without Bishops and an hundred other Questions in Controversy between the Papists and those Protestants and when he had master'd these go on to sortify himself against the Opinions and Objections of other Churches he dissers from This which is no small Task must be done before a Man can have brought his Religion to the Bar of Reason and given it fair trial there And if you will punish Men till this be done the Country-man must leave off plowing and sowing and betake himself to the Study of Greek and Latin and the Artisan must sell his Tools to buy Fathers and School-men and leave his Family to starve If something less than this will satisfy you pray tell me what is enough Have they considered and examined enough if they are satisfied themselves where the Truth lies If this be the limits of their Examination you will sind sew to punish unless you will punish them to make them do what they have done already For however he came by his Religion there is scarce any one to be found who does not own himself satisfied that he is in the right Or else must they be punished to make them consider and examine till they imbrace that which you choose for Truth If this be so what do you but in effect choose for them when yet you would have Men punished To bring them to such a
punished to make them consider Your Penalties have had the effect on them you intended they have made them consider and they have done their utmost in considering What now must be done with them They must be punish'd on for they are still Dissenters If it were just if you had reason at first to punish a Dissenter to make him consider when you did not know but that he had considered already it is as just and you have as much reason to punish him on even when he has perform'd what your Punishments was designed for when he has considered but yet remains a Dissenter For I may justly suppose and you must grant that a man may remain a Dissenter after all the consideration your moderate Penalties can bring him to when we see greater Punishments even those Severities you disown as too great are not able to make men consider so far as to be convinced and brought over to the National Church If your Punishments may not be inflicted on men to make them consider who have or may have considered already for ought you know then Dissenters are never to be once punished no more than any other sort of men Iâ—… Dissenters are to 〈◊〉 punished to make them consider whether they have considered or no then their Punishments tho they do consider must never cease as long as they are Dissenters which whether it be to punâ—…sh them only to bring them to consider let all men judg This I am sure Punishments in your method must either never begin upon Dissenters or never cease And so preâ—…end Moderation as you please the Punishments which your method requires must be either very immoderate or none at all And now you having yielded to our Author and that upon very good reasons which you your self urge and which I shall set down in your own words That to prosecute men with Fiâ—…e and Sword or to dâ—…prive them of their Estates to maim them with â—…ral Punishments to starve and tâ—…rture them in noisom Prisons and in the end even to take away their lives to make them Christians is but an â—…ll way of expressing mens desire of the Salvation of thâ—…se whâ—…m they treat in this manner And that it will be very difficult to persâ—…ade men of sense that he who with dry eyes and satisfaction of mind can deliver his Brother to the Executioner to be burnt alive does sincerely and heartily concern himself to save that Brother from the Flames of Hell in the world to câ—…me And that these Methods are so very imprâ—…per in respect to the Design of them that they usually prâ—…duce the quite contrary effect For whereas all the use which Force can have for the advancing true Religion and the Salvation of Souls is as has already been â—…wed by disposing men to submit to Instruction and to give a fair hearing to the Reasons which are offâ—…red for the enlightning their minds and discovering the Truth to them these Cruelties have the misfortune to be commonly look'd upon as so just a prejudice against any Religion that uses them as makes it needless to look any further into it and to tempt men to reject it as both false and detestable without ever vâ—…ucbsafing to consider the rational Grounds and Motives of it This effect they seldom sail to work upon the Sufferers of them and as to the Spectators if they be not before-hand well instructed in those Grounds and Motives they will be much tempted likewise not only to entertain the same opinion of such a Religion but withal to judg much more favourably of that of the Sufferers who they will be apt to think would not expâ—…se themselves to such extremities which they might avoid by compliance if they were not throughly satisfied of the Justice of their Cause And upon these Reasons you conclude That these Severities are utterly unapt and improper for the bringing men to embrace that Truth which must save them Again you having acknowledged That the Authority of the Magistrate is not an Authority to compel any one to his Religion And again That the rigor of Laws and force of Penalties are not capable to convince and change mens minds And yet further That you do not require that men should have no rule but the Religion of the Court or that they should be put under a necessity to quit the light of their own Reason and oppose the dictates of their own consciences and blindly resign up themselves to the will of their Governors but that the Power you ascribe to the Magistrate is given him to bring mâ—…n not to his own but to the true Religion Now you having I say granted this whereby you directly condemn and abolish all Laws that have been made here or any where else that ever I heard of to compel men to Conformity I think the Author and whosoever else are most for Liberty of Conscience might be content with the Toleration you allow by condemning the Laws about Religion now in force and rest satisfied until you had made your new Method consistent and practicable by telling the World plainly and directly 1. Who are to be Punished 2. For what 3. With what Punishments 4. How long 5. What Advantage to true Religion it would be if Magistrates every where did so punish 6. And lastly Whence the Magistrate had Commission to do so When you have done this plainly and intelligibly without keeping in the uncertainty of general expressions and without supposing all along your Church in the right and your Religion the true which can no more be allow'd to you in this case whatever your Church or Religion be than it can be to a Papist or a Lutheran a Presbyterian or an Anabaptist nay no more to you than it can be allowid to a Jew or a Mahometan when I say you have by setling these Points fram'd the parts of your new Engine set it together and shew'd that it will work without doing more harm than good in the world I think then men may be content to submit to it But imagining this and an Engine to shew the perpetual Motion will be found out together I think Toleration in a very good state notwithstanding your answer wherein you having said so much for it and for ought I see nothing against it unless an impracticable Chimera be in your opinion something mightily to be apprehended We have now seen and examined the main of your Treatise and therefore I think I might here end without going any farrher But that you may not think your self or any of your Arguments neglected I will go over the remainder and give you my thoughts on every thing I shall meet with in it that seems to need any answer In one place you argue against the Author thus If then the Author's Fourth Proposition as you call it viz. That Force is of no use for promoting true Religion and the Salvation of Souls be not true as perhaps by this time it appears
do well to put in your claim for them tho the Author excludes them no more than their Neighbours Nay they must be allow'd the pretence of the fairest Title For I never read of any seâ—…es that were to bring Men to Christ but those of the Law of Mâ—… which is therefore call'd a Pedâ—…gue Gal. 3 14. And the next Verse tells us That aftâ—…r that Faith is câ—…e 〈◊〉 are no longer under a School-master But yet if we are still to be driven to Christ by a Rod I shall not envy them the pleasure of wiâ—…ng it only 〈◊〉 desire them when they have got the Scourge into their Hands to remember our Saviour and sollow his Example who never us'd it but once and that they would like him imploy it only to drive vile and seandâ—…ons Trasikers for the things of this World out of their Church râ—…ther than to drive whoever they can into it Whether that latter be not a proper method to make their Church what our Saviour there pronounced of the â—…emple they who use it were best look For in matters of Religion none are so easy to be so driven as those who have nothing of Religion at all and next to them the Vicious the Ignorant the Worldling and the Hypocrite Who care for no more of Religion but the Name nor no more of any Church but its Prosperity and Power and who not unlike those describ'd by our Saviour Luke 20.47 for a shew come to or cry up the Prayers of the Church That they may devâ—…ur Widows and other helpless People's houses I say not this of the serious Professors of any Church who are in earnest in matters of Religion Such I value who conscientiously and out of a sincere Perswasion imbrace any Religion tho different from mine and in a way I think mistaken But no body can have reason to think otherwise than what I have said of those who are wrought upon to be of any Church by secular hopes and fears Those truly place Trade above all other Considerations and Merchandize with Religion it self who regulate their choice by worldly Profit and Loss You endeavour to prove against the Author that Civil Society is not instituted only for Civil Ends i. e. The procuring preserving and advancing Mens Civil Interests Your words are I must say that our Author does but beg the Question when he affirms that the Commonwealth is constituted only for the procuring preserving and advancing of the Civil Interests of the Members of it That Commonwealths are instituted for these Ends no Man will deny But if there be any other ends besides these attainable by the Civil Society and Government there is no reason to affirm That these are the only ends for which they are designed Doubtless Common-wealths are instituted for the attaining of all the Benefits which Political Government can yield And therefore if the Spiritual and Eternal Interests of Men may any way be procured or advanced by Political Government the procuring and advancing those Interests must in all reason be reckon'd among the Ends of Civil Societies and so consequently fall within the compass of the Magistrates Jurisdiction I have set down your words at large to let the Reader see That you of all Men had the least reason to tell the Author he does but beg the Question unless you mean to justify your self by the pretence of his Example You argue thus If there be any other Ends attainable by Civil Society then Civil Interests are not the only Ends for which Commonwealths are instituted And how do you prove there be other ends Why thus Doubtless Commonwealths are instituted for the attaining all the Benefits which Political Government can yeild Which is as clear a Demonstration as Doubtless can make it to be The Question is Whether Civil Society be instituted only for Civil Ends You say No and your proof is Because Doubtless it is instituted for other Ends. If I now say Doubtless this is a good argument is not every one bound without more ado to admit it for such If not Doubtless you are in danger to be thought to beg the Question But notwithstanding you say here That the Author begs the Question In the following Page you tell us That the Author offer three Considerations which seem to him abundantly to demonstrate that the Civil Power neither can nor ought in any manner to be extended to the Salvation of Souls He does not then beg the Question For the Question being Whether Civil Interest be the only End of Civil Society he gives this reason for the Negative That Civil Power has nothing to do with the Salvation of Souls and offers three Considerations for the proof of it For it will always be a good consequence that if the Civil Power has nothing to do with the Salvation of Souls then Civil Interest is the only End of Civil Society And the reason of it is plain Because a Man having no other Interest but either in this World or the World to come if the End of Civil Society reach not to a Man's Interest in the other World all which is comprehended in the Salvation of his Soul 't is plain that the sole End of Civil Society is Civil Interest under which the Author comprehends the good things of this World And now let us examine the Truth of your main Position viz. That Civil Society is instituted for the attaining all the Benefits that it may any way yeild Which if true then this Position must be true viz. That all Societies whatsoever are instituted for the attaining all the Benefits that they may any way yeild there being nothing peculiar to Civil Society in the Case why that Society should be instituted for the attaining all the Benefits it can any way yeild and other Societies not By which Argument it will follow That all Societies are instituted for one and the same End i. e. for the attaining all the Benefits that they can any way yeild By which account there will be no difference between Church and State A Commonwealth and an Army or between a Family and the East-India Company all which have hitherto been thought distinct sorts of Societies instituted for different Ends. If your Hypothesis hold good one of the Ends of the Family must be to Preach the Gospel and Administer the Sacraments and one business of an Army to teach Languages and propâ—…gate Religion because these are Benefits some way or other attainable by those Societies Unless you take want of Commission and Authority to be a sufficient Impediment And that will be so too in other cases 'T is a benefit to have true Knowledg and Philosophy imbraced and assented to in any Civil Society or Government But will you say therefore that it is a benefit to the Society or one of the Ends of Government that all who are not Peripateticks should be punished to make Men find out the Truth and prosess it This indeed might be thought a fit
establish'd by Law Which is it seems the Lawful Religion of a Countrey and to be comply'd with as such There being such things such notions yet in the World it was not quite besides the Author's business to alledge that God never gave such authority to one man over another as to compel any one to his Religion I will grant if you please Religion establish'd by Law is a pretty odd way of speaking in the mouth of a Christian and yet it is much in fashion as if the Magistrate's Authority could add any force or sanction to any Religion whether true or false I am glad to find you have so far considered the Magistrate's Authority that you agree with the Author that he hath none to compel men to his Religion Much less can he by any establishment of Law add any thing to the Truth or Validity of his own or any Religion whatsoever It remains now to examine whether the Author's Argument will not hold good even against Punishments in your way For if the Magistrate's Authority be as you here say only to procure all his Subjects mark what you say ALL HIS SUBJECTS the means of discovering the way of Salvation and to procure withal as much as in him lies that NONE remain ignorant of it or refuse to embrace it either for want of using those means or by reason of any such prejudices as may render them ineffectual If this be the Magistrate's business in reference to ALL HIS SUBJECTS I desire you or any man else to tell me how this can be done by the application of Force only to a part of them Unless you will still vainly suppose ignorance â—…gligence or prejudice only amongst that part whiâ—…h any where dâ—…ffers from the Magistrate If those of the Magistrates Church may be ignorant of the way of salvation If it be possible there may be amongst them those who refuse to imbrace it either for want of using those means or by reason of any such prejudices as may render them ineffectual What in this case becomes of the Magistrate's Authority to procure all his Subjects the means of discovering the way of salâ—…ation Must these of his Subjects be neglected and lest without the means he has Authority to procure them Or must he ase Force upon them too And then pray shew me how this can be done Shall the Magistrate punish those of his own Religion to procurâ—… them the means of discovering the way of salvation and to procure as much as in him lies that they remain nor ignorant of it or refuse not to imbrace it These are such contradictions in practice this is such condemnation of a man 's own Religion as no one can expect from the Magistrate and I dare say you desire not of him And yet this is that he must do If his Authority â—…e to precure all his subjects the means of discovering the way to salvation And if it be so needful as you say it is that he should use it I am sure Force canâ—…do that till it be apply'd wider and Punishment be laid upon more than you would have it For if the Magistrate be by Force to pricuâ—…e â—…s much as in him lies that none remâ—…gnorant of the way of salvation must he not punish all those who are ignorant of the way of salvation And pray tell me how is this any way practicable but by supposing none in the National Church ignorant and all out of it ignorant of the way of Sâ—…lvation Which what is it but to punish men barely for not being of the Magistrate's Religion The very thing you deny he has authority to do So that the Magistraie having by your own confession nâ—… authority thus to use Force and it being otherways impract cable for the procuring all his Subjects the means of discovering the way of salvation there is an end of Force And so Force being laid aside either as unlawful or unpracticable the Author's Argument holds good against Force even in your way of applying it But if you say as you do in the foregoing page That the Magistrate has authority to lay such Penalties upon those who refuse to imbrace the Doctrine of the proper Ministers of Religion and â—…o submit to their Spiritual Government as to make them betbâ—…nk themselvâ—…s so as not to be aliâ—…nated from the Truth â—…or as for foâ—…lish â—…umour and uncharitable prâ—…judice c. which are but words oâ—… course that opposite Parties give one another as marks of dâ—…ke and presumption I omit them as signifying nothing to the Question being such as will with the same Reason be retorâ—…ed by the other Side Against that also the Author's Argument holds That the Magistrate has no such Authority 1st Because God never gave the Magistrate an authority to be Judg of truth for another man in matters of Religion and so he cannot be judg whether any man be altenated from the truth or no. 2â—…ly Because the Magistrate had never authority given him to lay any Penaltieâ—… on those who refuse to imbrace the Doctrine of the proper Ministers of his Religion or of any other or to submit to their Spiritual Government more than oâ—… any other men To the Author's Argument that the Magistrate cannot receive such authority from the People because no man has power to leave it to the choice of any other man to chuse a Religion for him you give this pleasant Answer As the Power of the Magi-strate in reference to Religionâ—… is ordained for the bringing men to take such care as they ought of their Salvation that they may not blindly leave it to the choice neither of any other person nor yet of their own lusts and passiâ—…ns to prescribe to them what faith or worship they shall embrace So if we suppose this power to be vested in the Magistrate by the consent of the People this will not 〈◊〉 their abandoning the care of their Salvation but rather the contrayâ—… For if men in chusing their Religion are so generally subject as has been showed when left wholly to thâ—…es to be so much â—…way d by prejudice and passion as either not at all or not sufficiently to regard the reasonâ—… and motives which ought alone to determine their choice then it is every man's true interest not to be left whoâ—…ly to himself in this matter but that care should be taken thaâ—…in an Affair of so vast concernment to him be 〈◊〉 be brought even against his own inclâ—…ation if it cannot be done otherwise which is ordinarily the case to act according to reason anâ—… sound judgmentâ—… And then what better course can mâ—…n take to provide for this than by vesting the Power I have described in him who bears the Sword Wherein I beseech you consider 1st Whether it be not pleasant that you say the Power of the Magistrate is ordaâ—…'d to bring men to take such care and thence infer Then it is every one's interest to vest such Power in