oath viz. that if hee knew that the Scriptures should bee put into English and that the King would haue them to bee read in the Church rather then hee would liue so long to see it he would cut his owne throat But as Hall saith who heard him speake it hee was not so good as his word for in stead of cutting his throat he hanged himselfe C. What is the cause that they cannot abide to haue the Scriptures in their owne Language M. S. Iohn giues the reason For euery one that doth euill hateth the light neither commeth to the light lest his déeds should be reproued and discouered Iohn 3.20 If the Owle fly abroad by day the birds by and by discerne him follow him and fall vpon him and therefore hee flyes abroad vsually in the night and then he is quiet If the Scriptures should be suffered to be expounded and read of all Nations in their owne language then that Owle of Rome the Pope I meane with all his fooleries and abominations would be discerned and discouered and then the world would hate him follow after him and persecute him euen as the small birds doe the Owle and therfore they cānot abide the Scriptures in the vulgar tongue but loue darknes rather then light because these déeds are euil Ioh. 3.19 C. What say you then to their good works as building of Churches giuing of Almes c. M. These and such like works required in the Law of God in themselues are good and to be practised of all but to them they are as the Fathers called the vertues of the Heathen but splendidae peccata glittering drosse and beautifull deformities C. Do they teach any thing contrary to the Morall Lawe and to the doctrine of good workes M. Yes they do both teach practise many things directly contrary to Gods Commandements They teach for good workes such things as are not commanded but rather forbidden in the Law of God as namely to goe on Pilgrimage to vow single life to fast forty dayes and forty nights c. First concerning set Pilgrimages vnto certaine Images there was none of the Fathers that did so much as dreame of them for 600. yéers after Christ at the least Perkins 2. Vol. page 541 542. Secondly the necessitie of the vowe of continency was established first and annered vnto Orders about 380. yéeres after Christ and that by Pope Siricius But it had no vniuersall admission vntill the time of Pope Hildebrand in the yéere 1070. Perkins 1. Vol. 583. to 587. 2. Volume 575 576. Acts and Monuments 1151. Thirdly their doctrine of single life was nener commanded of God nor knowne in the Primitiue Church but hath sprung vp since and is indeed the very doctrine of diuels 1. Tim. 4.13 So is also their forbidding of meates for religions sake They teach also that a man may fulfill the Lawe yea do workes of Supererogation that is more then the Lawe doth require and that men of their abundance may allot vnto others such works of Supererogation Rhem. on 1. Cor. 9. sect 6. 2. Cor. 8. sect 3. This doctrine of theirs makes the Law of God to bée vnperfect and is directly contrary to the words of Christ Luke 17.10 And it was not knowne of the ancient Fathers They spake indeede sometimes of supererogation but in a far other sense then the Papists doe There are no such works to be found in the person of any meer man or Angell but onely in the person of Christ God and man Perk. 1. vol. 598.599.2 vol. 540.541 DIALOGVE 8. C. Shew me I pray you in particular what things they teach contrary to the Commandements M. I could plainly proue vnto you that they doe both teach and practise many things contrary to euery one of the Commandements but I wil onely set downe the chiefest and such as most men know to be true The first Commandement concernes the inward worship of God the ground of which worship is the true knowledge of God and without which none can truly worship and serue him for such as our knowledge is such is our worship 1. Chron. 28.9 Psal 9.10 Ier. 9.24 The Papists teach that ignorance is the mother of deuotion but the truth is it is the mother of superstition and idolatry Gal. 4.8 The Papists therefore being ignorant and without the true knowledge of God cannot truely worship him but must néeds bee Idolaters worshipping they know not what The first Commandement requireth that we haue the true Iehoua for our onely God They make Christs body to bee God because they hold that it may be in many places at once which thing is proper onely to God They make the Pope to bee God and that in plaine words Christopher Marcellus said to the Pope Thou art another God vpon earth and the Pope tooke it to himselfe Concil Later Sess 4. They giue the power to the Pope which is proper to God and so make him to be God As that hee can make holy that which is vnholy pardon sinnes c. Perk. 1. vol. 400.1 and they giue diuine worship to creatures and so make them their Gods The second Commandement concerneth the outward worship of God or the forme and manner of his worship This Commandement they haue cleane put out of the Decalogue and to fill vp the number they diuide the last into two The scope of this Commandement is that no image is to be made of God nor any worship performed to him in an image Deut. 4.15 16. But they teach it lawfull to make images of the true God and to worship him in them and that there is a religious worship due to them Bellar. de imag sanct lib. 2. cap. 21. And in the second Nicen Councell it was decreed that the Image of God should be worshipped with the same worship that is due vnto God Their practice is answerable to their doctrine for they worship the Images of God of Christ the Saints the woodden Crosse yea a piece of bread C. They say that they doe not worship the images but God Christ and the Saints in the image M. Suppose that this were true yet in so doing they commit grosse idolatry and the same that the people of Israel did for which God plagued them greatly Exod. 32.5 28. I think there is none so very a Calfe as to thinke that they did worship the Calfe it selfe The Calfe was but a representation of God and yet they sinned greatly in making it and worshipping God in it The Heathen in times past could say as much for themselues concerning their worshipping of Images as the Papists now do and yet as they were Idolaters so are the Papists for as touching their superstition and idolatry bloud cannot be more like to bloud or an egge to an egge then one of them is to another The Heathen had for euery nation and prouince some peculiar god Among them the Elements had their seuerall gods to rule ouer them The Heathen had a certaine god
see it Againe there may be some that for want of knowledge and the meanes thereof are intangled with some points of Popery but yet they hold the foundation which is CHRIST IESVS and looke to be saued by his merits and not by their owne or any others Such we account not Papists our the true Church and children of God But by Papists we meane such as cleaue fast to the Pope in religion are in all things obedient to him will not be reclaimed from their errours refuse to heare the Word of God to read the Scriptures or any other good books ' Of such wée may boldly say that if they thus continue to the end they cannot bee saued DIALOGVE 15. C. I do now plainely see that Papists are no good Catholikes because they are neither of sound faith nor good life but tell me I pray you who indeed are the true Church and true Catholikes M. All that doe truly and sincerely embrace professe and practise the aforesaid grounds of Religion in what Countrey soeuer they liue C. Is the Church of England the true Church M. Yes for it hath the speciall markes of the true Church namely the Word of God sincerely and soundly preached and the Sacraments rightly administred C. The Papists say that there are diuersities of opinions amongst vs that we cannot agree among our selues and that therefore wee are not the true Church M. In all substantiall points of Religion wée agree both amongst our selues and also with all other sound Protestants in Christendome In other things there haue bin are and will bee diuersities of opinions differences to the worlds end They should first pluck out the beame of their owne eyes for we can truly charge them with greater differences As namely with that sharpe and bloudy contention betweene the Franciscans and Dominicans and with the late bitter contention between the Iesuites the secular Priests wherein the Priests did write as bitterly against the Iesuites and namely against Parsons as euer did any Protestant nay there was neuer any Protestant Writer that did lay such foule and odious crimes to their charge as the Priests did And heerein they verified the old prouerb When théeues fall by the eares true men come to haue their goods For one dissention that is among vs they haue at least ten among themselues Doctor Willet in his fourth Piller of Papistry hath set downe at large First the contradictions and diuerse opinions of old Papists and new Secondly the contradictions of the Iesuites among themselues Thirdly that their stoutest Champion Bellarmine is at variance with himselfe shamefully forgetting himselfe saying and vnsaying now of one opinion by and by of another And no maruaile Oportet enim mendacem esse memorem A liar had néed to haue a good memory Fourthly hee sheweth the repugnances inconueniences and inconsequent opinions which Popish Religion hath in it selse And thus you see how they charge vs with that wherein themselues are most faulty DIALOGVE 16. C. Are there none among vs that maintaine any strange and new opinions contrary to the grounds of Religion M. If there be any such our Church doth not approue of them but rather censure and punish them C. There be some that professe the former grounds of Religion as wee doe and yet say that there is no true Church among vs and therefore will not ioyne with vs in prayer hearing the Word and in the vse of the Sacraments but separate themselues from vs what say you of such M. I say that they are possessed with the spirit of pride and singularity and that in so doing they doe euen deny these Articles of faith the Catholike Church and the Communion of Saints and are such as the Apostle speakes of Rom. 16.17 Heb. 10.25 39. Master Perkins in his first volume page 409. calles them a schismaticall and vndiscreet company and saith that they are full of pride thinking themselues to be full when they are empty to haue all knowledge when they are ignorant and haue need to be catechized Another saith thus of them The errour of those men is full of euill yea of blasphemie who doe in such manner make a departure from this Church as if Christ were quitbanished from hence and that there could bee no hope of saluation to those that abide heere And further he saith that if they cannot finde Christ heere they shall find him no where The errors of these men you may see in a little Treatise set forth by Master Bernard called The Separatists Schisme C. I pray shew me by some example that they ought not to separate themselues from vs and that they doe sinne in so doing M. In the Church of Corinth the incestuous man was not punished fornication was lightly regarded yea there were some that euen denied the Resurrection yet S. Paul doth account and call them the Church and Saints hee doth not perswade any to make a separation but doth plainely rebuke them and sheweth how they should punish the euill doer I speake not this to excuse any grosse sin that raigneth amongst vs for I wish that the same might be seuerely punished but to shew that where the Word is truly preached and the Sacraments rightly administred as in our Church they are none ought for any cause to separate themselues And that such as doe it do sinne grieuously I will shew you by a familiar example A mother conceiuesh and bringeth forth a sonne and that with great trauaile paine Shee traineth him vp to mans estate and that not without great care and labour This sonne at length espying some spot and blemish or some infirmity in his mother forsaketh her and will not acknowledge her to be his mother what would you now thinke of him C. Surely I should thinke such a one to bee a very wicked and vnnaturall sonne M. Euen such are they who for some seeming faults in our Church deny it to bee a true Church and doe separate themselues from it whereas this Church hath conceiued them brought them forth and nourished them For if euer they were truly begotten vnto Christ and borne anew it hath hin by our Church and our Ministerie by which likewise they haue bin trained vp and brought to that knowledge which they haue C. There are many amongst vs that make great profession of Religion but I can see no good workes come from them nay they are not onely barren in good workes but also liue in some one grosse sinne or other Are these the true Church and true Catholikes M. Though they liue in the Church yet they are not of the Church they are but Hypocrites and shall if they repent not haue the reward of Hypocrites yea it shall be easier in the day of iudgement for many Papists then for them because by their barren and fruitlesse yea wicked life they haue caused the name of God his Gospell and the true professours thereof to bee euill spoken of Let all therefore that will bee
accounted the true Church and true Christians bee carefull to adorne the doctrine of God our Sauiour in all things and that by a godly conuersation and by dooing of good workes C. The name of God bee blessed for this our conference whereby I finde my selfe much edified There remaineth yet one thing more which I will demand of you and that is how I may come to know and be assured that I am indeed a member of the true Church and that I shall certainely be saued M. Bee diligent to heare the Word of God preached Reade the Scriptures Receiue often the Sacrament Acquaint your selfe throughly with the aforesaid grounds of Religion Ioyne heereunto earnest and hearty prayer Set apart some time for these things specially bee carefull to spend the Sabbath heerein And to all these things ioyne an holy conuersation indeuouring aboue all things to haue alway a cleare conscience toward God and toward men In doing this you shall at length come to that full assurance whereof S. Paul speaketh namely that you are the childe of God and that nothing shall bee able to separate you from the loue of God which is in Christ Rom. 8.38 Babylon is fallen is fallen Reuelation 14.8 Prayse honour glorie and power bee vnto him that sitteth vpon the Throne and vnto the Lambe for euermore Amen Reuelation 5.13 FINIS A TABLE OF the Simples whereof the Pill is compounded IMplicit faith Dialogue 1. Denying of Christs humanitie Dialogue 2. Merits of Saints Ibid. Saint Francis the Virgine Mary and the Pope made Sauiours Ibid. Blasphemies Ibid. Popish Traditions Images Denying of CHRISTS Propheticall Office Dialogue 3. Popish Priest-hood Ibid. Sacrifice of the Masse Ibid. Intercession of Saints Ibid. Denying of Christs Priesthood Ibid. Pope the head of the church Denying of the Kingly office of Christ Ibid. The Christ of the Papists a counterfeit Christ Ibid. Conception of the Virgine vvithout sinne Dialogue 4. Purgatory Ibid. Carnall presence Dialogue 5. Catholike Church of Rome Ibid. Canonizing of SAINTS Ibid. Humane satisfactions Ibid. Iustification by workes Ibid. Merits Ibid. Fiue bastard Sacraments Dialogue 6. SACRAMENTS giue grace Ibid. Sacraments iustifie Ibid. Cuppe taken away Dialogue 6. Reseruing of the Bread Ibid. Adoration of the Sacrament Ibid. Transubstantiation Ibid. Workes without faith Dialogue 7. Scriptures in a strange tong Ibid. Pilgrimages Ibid. Vow of single life Ibid. Workes of Supererogation Ibid. Ignorance the mother of deuotion Dialogue 8. CHRISTS body The Pope c. are made gods Ibid. Images made and worshipped Ibid. Prayer in a strange tongue Ibid. Popish vowes and fasting Ibid. Swearing by Saints Dialogue 9. Periurie Ibid. Blasphemie Ibid. Popes Supremacie Ibid. Popes pride Ibid. Disobedience to Parents Ibid. Killing of KINGS Dialogue 10. Crueltie Treacherie Flatterie Ibid. Priests marriage made vnlawfull Dialogue 11. Filthy liues of Popes Monks c. Ibid. Popes Bulls and Pardons c. Ibid. Equiuocation Dialogue 12. Railing Mocking c. Ibid. Lying Ibid. Concupiscence Ibid. Veniall sinne Ibid. Prayer to Saints Dialogue 13. Free will holy water c. Ibid. No vnion can bee made betweene Poperie and the Religion now professed in England Dialogue 14. Fiue causes why so many embrace Popery Ibid. The Church of England a true Church Dialogue 15. Diuisions and contradictions among Papists Ibid. Separatists Dialogue 16. Barren professours are but hypocrites Ibid. The Conclusion Ibid. FINIS LONDON Printed by H. L. for Beniamin Fisher and are to be sold at his Shop in Pater-noster Row at the signe of the Talbot 1623.
6. you may terme in plaine English lying and cogging They are not orious lyers slanderers railers and workers Willet on Iude page 195 and 205. 212. They haue falsified mens writings putting in and putting out what they please as is to bee séene in their Index expurgatorius See Perk. 2. vol. page 489 c. There haue bin in times past games appointed for lying If there were any such now the Papists would carry the whet stone from all the heretikes in Christendome The tenth Commandement condemneth originall corruption and the very euill thoughts and lusts of the heart without consent They teach that concupiscence in it selfe is not sinne These are the very words of the Concell of Trent This concupiscence which the Apostle sometime calleth sinne the holy Synod declareth that the Catholike Church did neuer vnderstand to be called sinne because it is truly and properly sinne in the regenerate but because it commeth of sinne and inclineth vnto sinne If any man thinke the contrary let him be accursed Sess 5. cap. 1. de pecc orig Wherein they both decrée against the Apostle himselfe Rom. 7.23 and also they gain-say themselues for if this concupiscence boyle out of originall sin as out of a fountaine and that is damnable it followeth that conrupisence or lust is also sinne before God and doth deserue condemnation They say that in the regenerate it is veniall But this is an vndoubted principle that all sinnes in themselues and their owne nature are mortall And concerning this veniall sinne it was not knowne among the Fathers for 700 yéeres after Christ And thus you see what grosse things they both teach practise contrary to the Commandements of God whereby it plainely appeareth that Popery cannot be of God for thus I reason Whatsoeuer religion doth teach things contrary to the Commandements of God is not of God but Poperie doth so and therefore it is not of God and so by good consequence Papists cannot be good Catholikes DIALOGVE 13. C. Hitherto you haue shewed that the Papists teach many things contrary to the Creed the Sacraments the ten Commandements now tell me I pray you whether they teach any thing contrarie to the Lords prayer M. They doe likewise teach and practise many things contrary thereunto I will but onely name some of them The Lords prayer teacheth vs to call vpon God onely They teach and practise prayer to Saints In the first petition we pray for the hallowing of Gods name They giue vnto Saints departed that which is proper to God and so dishonour Gods name In the second position we pray for the erecting of Gods Kingdom of grace in our hearts and also for the meanes thereof namely the preaching and hearing of Gods Word They hinder the comming of Gods kingdom in reiecting the Word of God and in persecuting such as will preach heere and reade it Contrary to the third petition is their doctrine of frée-will Contrary to the fift petition is their doctrine of satisfaction for sin In the sixt petition we pray for strength to withstand Satan and his temptations They teach people to driue away the diuell with holy water and such like childish toyes These and other such like things they teach practise contrary to the Lords prayer DIALOGVE 14. C. If Popery be so contrary to the grounds of Religion then we may not ioyne with the Papists in their profession M. It is true indéede we must therfore do as the Lord bade Ieremy chap. 15.19 Let them returne to thée but returne not thou to them We may ioyne with them in respect of ciuill societie but not in respect of Religion and yet euen then we are to take héede lest wee bee corrupted by them for hee that teacheth pitch shall bee defiled therewith Some think that our Religion and the religion of the present Church of Rome are all one for substance and that they may be vnited but they are grossly deceiued for a vnion of these two religions can neuer bee made more then the vnion of light and darknes and that because the Church of Rome as hath at large bin shewed hath strooke at the very foundation C. If Popery bee so contrary to the very grounds of Religion then what is the cause that so many yea euen of the more wise and learned sort do embrace and cleaue to it M. One speciall cause of it is that because men will not receiue the loue of the truth therefore God shall send them strong delusion that they should beléeue a lie 2. Thes 2.10 11. A second cause is ignorance of the Scriptures and of the grounds of Religion for if men would well acquaint themselues héerewith they should easily fee the grossenes of Popery A third cause is that Popery is very agreeable and pleasing to mans corrupt nature As for example to be iustified by our good workes to haue Images to worship God in to liue in ignorance to haue pardons for our sinnes to serue God in outward ceremonies as in choice of meat difference of daies c. these are things very agreeable and pleasing to our corrupt nature and therefore one speciall cause why so many embrace Popery A fourth cause is the tyrannie of the Church of Rome whose chiefe meanes to vphold her religion is fire and sword for were it not for this many thousands in a few yeeres would vtterly renounce Poperie A fift cause why so many specially of the Learned doe embrace it is pomp and profit that is ambition and couetousnesse This was that which made the Scribes and Pharises euen against their owne knowledge to withstand Christ and his Gospell And this makes many learned Papists to doe the like They know no doubt that in some things they erre as it doth appeare by the words of Stephen Gardiner on his death bead The Bishop of Chichester séeing him to be in a desperate case comforteth him with the hope of remission of sinnes by the merits of Christ Gardiner héereunto answereth thus What will you open that gape now you may speake it to mee to such as are in my case but if you teach it to the people then farewell all meaning our authority pompe and profit by absolutions Masses c. These are the speciall causes why so many embrace Poperie C. There is one thing more that I would gladly know concerning the Papists and that is whether a Papist may be saued seeing that Poperie is so contrary to the grounds of Religion M. You are then to marke what a Papist is A Papist as the Rhemists on Acts 11. Sect 4. doe describe him is one that cleaueth to the Pope in Religion and is obedient to him in all things Euery one now that is vnder the iurisdiction of the Pope is not to be counted a Papist for their are some euen in Italy Spaine c. that hold the Grounds of Religion doe sigh and grone vnder the Romish yoke and desire to bee fréed from it yea would reioice to