foole will swallow himselfe The beginning of the words of his mouth is foolishnesse and the end of his talke is mischievous madnesse O what a shame in this Prophet that professeth such pietie that the lying spirit should so prevaile in his mouth 1 Reg. 22.22 If it please the courteous Reader to goe along with me in the Examen of it he shall finde him no better in the midst so he shall have him by Gods grace compleatly like to himselfe in Principio Medio Fine 5. The Title or Inscription of his Book is A coole Conference The Author might have said A very hot and coole Conference for it is so hot for the one partie that ye may esteeme it a burning coale or fire of zeale for it howsoever without knowledge igneus est illi vigor terrestris origo But for the other it is so coole yea so cold in its behalfe that he may be judged to be ex frigidis maleficiatis or this his discourse to be dropped from Diacaldius Driswerus Nosedropensis who wrote de frigidis meteor is Nive Glacie Grandine Neither can it ascend to the supreme Region of the Ayre or produce any effect upon great spirits Nec faciles motus mens generosacapit If it work at all it must bee in the lowest Region thereof and upon very weake braines who will not hearken unto the truth But not to insist upon the Title of the Booke I come to the Booke it selfe In the first page because the Scotch Commissioners say We are neither so ignorant nor so arrogant as to ascribe to the Church of Scotland such absolute puruy and perfection as hath not need or cannot admit of further Reformation Ans I am assured that there is no man that professes Christianitie that can finde fault with this humble and most modest expression and yet this well-willing Pamphleter sets himselfe to jeere at it as a golden peace signifying-speech as if dropped from the mouth of some Chrysostome or conceived by some Ireneus But it is no new thing that men of golden and peaceable spirits such as Chrysostome and Ireneus should meet with enemies such as theirs were for Chrysostome had adversaries who had ferreum os aeneam frontem plumbeum cerebrum and Ireneus had his who were every whit as busily cudere 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as he could be cudere 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. Upon this he groundeth a latitude of Religion as I beleeve greater then that of Noahs Arke to receive all sorts of cleane and unclean beasts but we desire to know of what latitude he would have it if it shall receive Brownists Anabaptists and the Independenters of New England who interesse all the people yea women too to judge in matters of Religion and in all Ecclesiasticall Censures whatsoever 3. Under condition of his latitude of Noahs Arke or rather of the Regions of the world he assureth us of their Good will acccording to the Covenant wherein they sweare to endeavour the preservation of the reformed Religion in Scotland in Doctrine Worship Discipline and Government against our common enemies the Reformation of Religion in the Kingdomes of England and Ireland in Doctrine Worship Discipline and Government according to the Word of God and the example of the best reformed Churches And shall endeavour to bring the Churches of God in the three Kingdomes to the neerest conjunction and uniformity in Religion Confession of faith and form of Church Government But here we see no latitude nor condition But the Pamphleter to shew his wit and skill and how cunningly he can draw the guilt of perjury upon himselfe has recourse to a Glosse of Orleans and some mentall reservations whereby he strangely tortureth the Covenant against the Text. Hee telleth us that the Covenant onely saith the Reformed Religion in Scotland that is or shall bee and till further Reformation wee will preserve it against our common enemy But never a word in the Covenant of the Reformation of the Religion in Scotland that is or shall be and till further Reformation This is an addition to the Text yea a meere falsification of the Covenant The Covenant speaketh onely of an endeavour of the reformation of Religion in England and Ireland according to the word of God and the example of the best Reformed Churches wherof it presupposeth that of Scotland to be one 1. since it sweareth to preserve it Neither could the Covenanters sweare to preserve it if they thought it to bee deformed for that were to sweare to maintaine deformity in Religion c. 2. And this may further be confirmed for endeavour is finis intenti sed non adepti of a thing intended that as yet is not existent but to exist but preservation is of a thing already existent and supposed to be 3. Because it is so expounded in the thanksgiving of the Assembly to the Scots Commissioners for their Booke Neither for all this beleeve wee that the Reformed Churches and namely that of Scotland cannot erre as the Romanists attribute unto their Church But the question is only whether or no they doe erre and wherein if in that that they will not receive the Independent Anarchie and Papalitie into every particular Congregation in permitting their particular Consistory compounded of one Minister and two or three ruling Elders to judge so many hundreds of persons who will not suffer themselves to be judged by any yea not by the whole Christian world If in this or any other thing they erre they professe themselves ready to bee informed and afterwards reformed But because they are fallible and may erre to conclude therefore that in every thing wherein they differ from Independenters Brownists Anabaptists c. they doe erre and so to quit their Religion they are not such fooles for by the same reason we might as well conclude our Brethren should quit their Tenets and come to us P. 2. Apol. Ah deare Brethren Here he calleth us deare and sweet Brethren but this Doctor had need of a Doctor for his palate is so feverish and vitiated that he relishes bitternesse in the sweet expressions of those whom he calleth sweet Brethren and his conceptions are so far disordered that he applieth to the Apologists what the Reformation cleared saith of ignorant and ill-informed people onely and doth not apply that which justly he might have applied to them in the following words viz. the misrepresentations and indirect aspersions of others who doe so commend c. and this distinction appeareth cleerly by those particles mistakings of some and mis-representations of others This well-willer telleth us that wise men are silently intentive expecting disputed positions from the Assembly Ans And why not ye also since in the last disputed Position ye caried away so great glory If good Cato say true Virtutem primam esse puta compescere linguam truly ye had the chiefe of all vertues and that in a most high degree yea in gradu heroico for ye
AN ANSVVER TO A LIBELL INTITULED A COOLE CONFERENCE Between the cleered REFORMATION AND THE APOLOGETICALL NARRATION Brought together by a Wel-willer to both Wherein are cleerely refuted what ever he bringeth against the Reformation cleared most humbly submitted to the judgement of the Honourable Houses of Parliament the most Learned and Reverend Divines of the Assembly and all the Reformed Churches By ADAM STEVART Amb. lib. 5. de Fide Si taceamus consentire videbimur si contendamus verendum ne carnales judicemur Imprinted at London 1644. TO THE READER COurteous Reader I pray thee excuse some of the most materiall faults fallen out partly by my absence partly by an accident that befell the Copy and to correct them as followeth PAge 3. line 8. read neither should he have feared a suppression of his book p. 10. l. 11. dele all that parenthesis ibid. p. l. 20. dele because p. 11. l. 9. read and those who interesse p. 16. l. 24. for but so r. and so p. 19. l. 26. r. for it was 1. it was p. 22. d. men p. 25. l. 3. r. Answ 1. ib. p. l. 5. for how r. 2. How ibid. p. l. 8. after the word Communion adde all that followeth 3. Either this Wel-willer pretendeth to play the Naturalist or the Divine If the Naturalist he knoweth not well the nature of the Northerly winde for ordinarily it bringeth not blacke but faire weather and scattereth the clouds as he might learne of all Naturalists ab Aqualone aurum from the North commeth gold i.e. golden or fair weather Iob 37.22 The North winde driveth away rain Prov. 25.23 If he play the Divine and allude to Scripture I must say to him as Christ said to the Jewes Ye erre not understanding the Scriptures for there it signifieth either the Spirit of Christ as in Salomons Song And then he must pray with the Church A wake O North-winde and come thou South blow upon my garden that the spices thereof may flow out Cant. 4.16 Or Gods people who were Northerne in respect of the Philistins who were their enemies so we must be Gods people and the Independenters whom this Wel-willer opposeth to the North their enemies or the Babylonians who were septentrionall or North-ward in respect of Gods people Esay 41.25 and so he esteemeth us to be Gods enemies if so how hold they us for one of the most pure Churches but what ever it signifie it can never signifie the Church of Scotland but in a very good sense Pag. 27. d. us p. 28. for Heb. panegr r. as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of Scripture Heb. 12.23 l. ult for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 29. l. 8. for vomit r. ye vomit p. 29. l. 30. d. of my selfe p. 43. l. 27. for two read five p. 35. l. 29. after the word narration adde all this that followeth Onely I pray the Reader to consider these mens craft in going about to sow the seeds of division betwixt the civill Magistrat the orthodox Churches in making the world to beleeve that they grant him more then the maximes of Presbyteriall Government will suffer them to do For 1. They tell not wherein 2. Whether this power be Ecclesiasticall or Civill as for the Ecclesiasticall they cannot give it 1. It being onely a Ministeriall power to serve not Magisteriall to dominiere with or to be given away by proxy to whom they please 2. If they give the Magistrat any power what can it be is it to preach to teach the power of the Keies to Excommunicate or to attend upon the sick and poore people and as for the civill it is not theirs but His Majesties and the Magistrates as is the constant tenet of all the Orthodox Churches who hold the Civill power incompatible with that of a Pastour or Doctor of the Church 3. If they grant the Magistrate more power then our Churches how is it that they acknowledge the Kings Patent in New-England for nothing else but in matters of State or Civill Government and Gods word onely in Church Government 4. He and they also hold the same rule in Old-England and therefore I pray all men only to consider if this be not rather a gulling of the Civill Magistrate then a proof of what they say 5. I wish him to answer whether New-England depend of Old-England and whether they thinke the King and Parliament have power to change Religion and Church Government there 6. Whether they both have power to do the same here against Gods word 7. Whether the Parliament have done well or not in calling of this Assembly of Divines to judge of matters of Religion As for us the constant opinion of all our Churches is that all Civill power belongeth onely to the Civill Magistrate and none at all to the Church 2. That the Civill Magistrate hath an extrinsecall executive power about Religion to maintaine and reforme it in case of corruption and that according to the presidents in Scripture Neither did ever any good Christian Prince assume any more to himselfe Neither doth it any way lessen his power that it is only extrinsecall for to be intrinsecall or extrinsecall signifieth not any quantity of greater or lesser power but onely the manner thereof for an extrinsecall power and influence may be greater then an intrinsecall as appeareth in that of the efficient and Materiall cause for the first is only active and yet extrinsecall but the second meerely passive without any action or efficacy at all and yet intrinsecall PErlegi tractatum hunc in quo nihil reperio quo minus cum utilitate publicâ imprimatur IA. CRANFORD BEfore I beginne the Refutation of this Pamphlet it shall not be amisse that I apologize for my selfe for refuting a Book already sufficiently refuted of it selfe and by that very same Booke whereof it intendeth the refutation I will therefore here declare unto the Christian Reader how I came to undertake it how unwilling I was to doe it upon what reasons I was moved thereunto The truth therefore is thus That some daies after the publication of this booke I hapned to fall in company with some men of quality that were reading of it and after the perusall thereof it was the joint wish of them all that some answer were drawne up unto it A few dayes after that I chanced to re-encounter with some of the same company and some others very well affected to Reformation who after sundry discourses fell upon the same Theme againe some of them saying that it would doe well that the Commissioners of the Church of Scotland would answer it Where some of them desiring me to deliver my opinion I replyed severall times as occasion required in substance that which followeth That it might seeme strange to others if men of such gravity and learning and much more of so eminent place and employment representing the whole Nationall Church of the Kingdome of Scotland should stoop to answer every idle
answereth not a word to the number of Church Officers or to their justification against the aspersions laid upon them for Lay Elders or their accusation against the Independents because of their Laymen Preachers and Prophets c. All this he passeth over by a Doctorall priviledge hic ubique terrarum tacendi Onely he scratcheth at the proofe they bring for Presbyteries Classes and Synods but refuteth it not no more then hee doth the Arguments brought by Master Rhetherford Guelaspe and others taken from Gods Attributes as 1. from his Goodnesse 2. Wisedome 3. Justice 4. Providence 5. from the nature of the Church c. Item from the Law of Nature 6. from sundry inconveniences 7. From the order established in the Church of the Jewes 8. From the practice of the Church in the times of the Apostles 9. From Christs institution in the New Testament 10. From parity of reason or proportion betwixt a Parishionall Session or Consistory and six or seven persons in the reall Church thereof and a combined Presbytery as ye call it and every one of the Churches peradventure two or three or ten thousand Parishionall Consistories subject thereunto 11. From the ends of the Church 12. her Conservation Peace c. whereof ye may happily heare more within a few dayes In the meane time I pray you answer to what is written and not to clude such arguments with tales at Assizes Wooll-packes Cannon-shot Bullets Batteries and termes of military Discipline wherewith we are not so well acquainted P. 10. § 3. Here it seemeth that this Doctor would excuse the Apologizers in saying that they give more to the Civill Magistrate then the principles of the Presbytertall gevernment will suffer them to yeeld As if it were rather said by way of retaliation and in anger then in truth because as he saith the peace-plea calleth them Independents If it be so 1. their passion is worthy of the others compassion 2. But this should not have made them to offend all the Reformed Churches and especially their Benefactors in the Netherlands which are all Presbyterians 3. All comparisons are also odious especially amongst men well bred 4. And yet howsoever they hate the name yet they love dearely the thing signified by the name and will depend of no Ecclesiasticall Judicatory yea as the Author of the Observations and Annotations sheweth clearly not upon all the Churches of the world and yet will that their Congregations depend of themselves who yet will depend upon no men in spirituall power or authority But the Doctor saith If upon a grosse errour of another Church they viz. Independent Churches dare exercise only a non communion with it then there is more left for the Magistrate to doe then when you have excommunicated it Answ In excommunicating a private person or a particular Church when it can be done with lesse hurt to the Church then is the good included therein it leaveth all to be done by the Magistrate that God has ordained him to doe viz. in politicall government Non auferet mortalia quiregna dat coelestia Neither requireth the godly Magistrate our King or this Parliament any more but ye are importune who will give him more then he requireth of you or then either God or the Magistrate hath commanded you The French say of such men Il est valet du Diable ilfait plus que commandement I will not here insist upon your impertinency in denying the name of excommunication to non communion and that great pride in not submitting the judgement of five or six some times idle yea oftentimes wicked felllowes to the judgement of all the Divines and Churches of the world in case they should dogmatise and sustein the most damnable heresies of the world and yet unto their judgement however so contemptible a number ye will submit the judgement of all their Congregation amounting peradventure to the number of many hundreds it may be better men then themselves Neither is it enough to leave it to the Civill Magistrate for his power is not spirituall God hath given an intrinsecall power to the Church sufficient for its spirituall end the Civill Magistrate may be a Pagan an Antichristian Christian an externall Christian but an inward enemy to the Church he may be negligent in his charge c. and is it credible that in such cases God hath instituted no Discipline or Government to take order with offenders But of this I need not to say any thing this evasion being so well so evidently and briefly refuted in the Commissioners own words which I pray the Reader to consider p. 21.22 if it please the Reader he may have sundry reasons against this opinion in the considerations and Annotations upon the Apologeticall Narration It is an untruth also that the Doctor presupposeth here viz. that a Classicall Presbyterie is made up of many Ministers and Lay men in the Kingdome of Scotland or among other Protestants And false againe that their Assemblies are made up of persons partly Ecclesiasticall partly civill or that they there rule persons partly Ecclesiasticall partly Civill we say that there can be no such persons for howsoever one person may have one charge Ecclesiasticall and another secular or Civill yet is he not therefore a mixt person neither be these severall charges mixt but distinguish'd in him fince of the two there resu'teth not any third Charge compounded of both as in mixtions but he exercises them both distinctly and severally in such a fashion that the one never concurreth to the function and operation of the other By the same reason it should follow that the divers faculties of the soule as the understanding expulsive facultie in a man should be mixt together since they be both in one soule as the most part of Philosophers hold When a States-man sitteth as a member of an Ecclesiasticall Assembly he sitteth no wayes as a States-man but as a Church-man neither judgeth he a State-man or secular person in qualitie of a States-man or of a secular person but in qualitie of a member of the Church So they judge not of civill matters formally as they are subject to the Civill Magistrates authority but materially in so far as they are subject to a spirituall formality or conduce to a spirituall end under the which notion they belong not ordinarily to the Civill Magistrate or per se intrinscce but per accidens extrinsece as all Orthodox Divines of the Reformed Churches do teach But this is not all for sundry of the Independents have told us that the Civill Magistrate according to Gods Word cannot punish any man for matters of Religion how abominable soever his opinions be P. 11. and 12. the Doctor will not answer because he hath not the Books at hand and so shifts over the argument What he saith of Aerius who held out against Bishops as our Reformed Churches doe is not to the purpose No more is this That Councells may erre
Afterwards he telleth us that French Ministers as Anonymus as himselfe and the French Discipline is for the Independenters but proveth it not but supposeth that we should take it upon his word which we may not at any hand doe till we see more candor and sincerity in his proceedings As for Merellus and some Ministers of the French Church excommunicated for their erronious opinions or ill lives and afterward assaulted the Discipline whereby they were sentenced if they have any such for them we envy them not such brethren Because the Commissioners p. 18. of the Reformation cleated mainteining the fidelity of the Reformers of the Scottish Church say that they deserted not their Churches nor caried away Churches with them nor did undergoe any voluntary exile but thought it a great spoile after that they were sentenced to exile to save their lives and to live with very small meanes farre from any friends to comfort them This the Doctor applieth to the Independenters of whom the Commissioners doe not speake but of their owne Ministers But since it is his pleasure to doe so I must say that hence it followeth that their exile was a far greater suffering then that of the Independents 1. for it was involuntary but the more involuntary that any afflictions be the greater they are and the more voluntary they be the leste they be for poena debet esse molesta involuntaria but that which is voluntary is not troublesome 2. That of the Independents was accompanied with many friends and worldly meanes so was not the other 3. It may be doubted if Pastours for their personall or particular persecution may fly without actuall compulsion and the publick consent of their Flock since they are not in the Church in quality of particular but of publick persons and Heads of the Flock Neither can that Text of Scripture helpe him viz. When they persecute you in one place flie to another for that is said of particular and not of publick persons or if it be said of the Apostles as to the Apostles it holdeth not in particular Ministers tyed to particular Churches for they are tyed to their particular Churches but so were not the Apostles who were equally bound to teach all the Churches of the world according to that saying of Christ Goe teach all Nations Matth. 28.19 and so could never abandon their flock And as for his Answer that they hept themselves for a reserve to assist the Church at their returne I must say they were very provident in foreseeing such an extraordinary case and prudent in preserving of their persons whereas the others sacrificed their lives for Christs truth Pag. 12. § 3. and p. 13. § 1. 2. the Doctor saith nothing against that which the Commissioners say and so approveth it he applieth it to the Independenters and denieth that they esteeme so of Excommunication viz. that to limit the censure of Excommunication in matter of opinion to the common and uncontroverted principles and in the matter of manners to the common and universall practises of Christianitie and in both to the parties known light is the dangerous opinion of the Arminians and Socinians openeth a wide dore and proclaimeth libertie to all other practises and errors which are not fundamentall and universally abhorred by all Christians c. To this he answereth with complaints and saith that there is no argument here But in this Laconick discourse there be more arguments then he seeth The first is Arminians and Socinians opinions are not to be received But to limit Excommunication in matters of opinion c. is Arminians and Socinians opinions Ergo It is not to be received The second is What openeth a doore and proclaimeth libertle to all other practifes and errors which are not fundamentall is not to be admitted But to limit Excommunication c. is such Ergo it is not to be admitted The third is An opinion universally abhorred by all Christians is not to be received But to limit Excommunication in matter of opinion to the common uncontroverted principles and in matter of manners to the common and universall practises of Christianitle and in both to the parties known light viz. of Nature or of Grace is an opinion universally abhorred by all Christians Ergo to limit Excommunication c. is not to be admitted 4. The Doctrine that tendeth to the overthrow of the Reformed Religion is not to be received But to limit excommunication c. tendeth to the overthrow of the Reformed Religion Ergo it is not to be received To these Arguments he answereth not formally neither to the matter nor to the forme and no wonder for he could not observe them Only to the end he may seeme not to have answer'd nothing at all he telleth us that Pagans and Infidels doe not practise But how is that to the purpose since in all the Commissioners Discourse there is not one word of Pagans or Infidels 2. He answereth that Papists Prelates Socinians Arminians Brownists and Separatists doe not hold some common truths with Christians But to what purpose he saith this I know not if it be to prove that they may be excommunicated we deny it not but say that to hold such an opinion is Arminianisme Socinianisme c. i. e. an Arminian or Socinian opinion whereunto he answereth not Againe by Socinians Arminians c. either he understandeth those who are not borne in the Church and who professe not our Religion or those who are borne in the Church and professe our Religion If the first they cannot be excommunicated since they are not nor ever were of our communion if the last it is true they may be excommunicated but that is not the question but whether this be not Socinianisme and Arminianisme viz. to limit Excommunication in matter of Opinion to the common and uncontroverted principles and in matter of Manners to the universall practises of Christianity Item whether this openeth not a doore to all other errors and practises as they say After this when he can answer nothing he returneth unto his ordinary lamentations that they are compared to Infidels c. But the Commissioners serve not themselves of bare comparisons as ye use to doe but with solid Arguments which prove you clearely what they say neither are ye compared by them with Seperatists but I prove you to be such for separating your selves from the reformed Churches Sacramental communion neither are ye compared with Brownists c. for conforming of Church Government with Scripture as ye pretend but for perverting of it against Scripture wherefore all these your complaints are nothing else but calumnies that yee cast upon the Church of Christ evermore sophisticating with your captions of non causa ut causa according to the ordinary custome of your Sect. And I pray this Doctor what if a man become bruitish and have the light of his understanding altogether corrupted so as to deny that there is any sinne against the light of Nature