condemne them by the very name and authority of some Councels without alledging the scriptures and reasons of the said Councels were out of reason for they submit themselves to prove that the Councels by the which their doctrine hath beene condemned were but petty Councels assembled and allowed by the tyranny of some who alone have decreed what they pleased against the authority of the scriptures without hearing or admitting of their adverse parties And doubtlesse in the ancient primative Church there were many Bishops which have rejected some Councels as suspect and not lawfull nor grounded upon the authority of the word of God but upon the authoritie of men as we read of Maximus Bishop of Ierusalem and of St Hillary Bishop of Poictiers yea and of St Athanasias Chrisestonie and Photinus so it is not without reason if many ages after them there have been Councels suspected to these men But as for the most Ancient and Received on either side they are content to allow of them so far forth as they prove their sayings by the word of God There resteth then nothing but that their reasons may be heard that the truth may be known and their heresies and errours avoided seeing there is no other means to procure a publick peace and to draw all the subjects to one Religion that if their adversaries as if there were no controversie in this point challenge the name of the Church and without hearing their reasons examined by the scriptures will that all that they shall ordaine or decree shall bee infallibly kept as an ordinance of the Church and so of God as they have done in the last Councel of Trent where the Pope was head and the adverse party not called but to be condemned and judged according to the ordinance of the Church that is to say of the Pope and Prelates or els to recant and then to bee receive into favour Without doubt there will be never any means to draw them from their beliefe seeing this Maxime will alwayes remaine graven in their hearts that they must in all things follow the word of God which alone hath authority to judge all Controversies and to define which is the true and the false Church which Maxime can never be wrested away by the authority of any man much lesse that the Pope and Prelats have any such Credit not by fire nor sword so as if their adversaries would not give them free audience as it is said but use violence they should but impaire their own Cause and make theirs better and more favourable whom they seek to root out Seeing then it is a Maxime or point resolved upon among all men of Judgement that touching the Faith and inward Beliefe no Corporall violence can command and that men must be confuted of errour in their Consciences we must examine the second point which wee have propounded which is Whether it were not possible to hinder the outward exercise of their Religion forbidding them to assemble preach teach nor to make any outward profession of that which they beleeve in heart And first In it were feasible whether it were fit and convenient to do it No religion whatsoever can subsist if it hath not some exterior exercises or ceremonies by the which it may be entertained whereupon the Emperor Gratian was wont to say that it was necessary the people should be maintained in some outward discipline of some Religion whatsoever it were good or bad For as man by nature is enclined to reject the yoke of God it is necessary he should be kept in awe and discipline else hee would bee like an untamed horse rejecting the fear of God and man Being then impossible to root out the Faith which they have in their hearts it were not convenient although it were possible to hinder their exteriour discipline and exercises by the which the people are maintained in their Religion and in the feare of God and of the Magistrate unless whereas in their Assemblies they are taught to be good men and to fear God and honour the King and his officers they will make them wicked Atheists Libertines and seditious perturbers of all good order and policy as we see plainly by daily experience For we see a number which have cast off the yoke of the Romish Church mocking at the Masse and Priests yet fear to lose their goods or honours refuse to apply themselves to discipline and exercise of any other Religion have become very Atheists without faith or law Yet there are no small number of villanous Libertines which make fects of themselves teaching that we must not serve God outwardly with any exterior form or discipline but onely in spirit and under this pretext they give themselves to all villany and abhomination to murthers rapes incests and adulteries holding that the outward things serve to no end so as the heart be cleer as they perswade themselves Yea some have been so audacious as to vaunt themselves to be Christ himself Others the Spirit of God And others Charity To conclude they are prophane people and contemners of God and the Magistrate maintaining that there ought not to be any sword or superiority used among men but that the spirit should rule govern and guide the heart of man as it pleaseth The which groweth through no other occasion but seing the great abuses which have reigned and do still reign in the Church and not being suffered on the other side to joyn themselves to any discipline and exercise of Religion they are grown to that pass as to think that dissimulation is not bad so as the heart be good and so mocking at Religion whereof they make a shew they must needs fall into wicked Atheism And there are none in the world more seditious and greater disturbers of all good order then these people as hath been seen in the Anabaptists of Munster and their like For the rooting out of which there were no better means whoso would consider all things without passion then to suffer them yea to command them expresly that all them which make profession of the Religion which they call Reformed should assemble in view of all the world and keep good discipline fit for the obedience which they owe unto God and the Magistrate correcting vices and excess for although there were no other good yet by this means they should get thus much which is of great importance for the preservation of the publick quiet That whereas we daily see spring up new and abhominable sects full of sedition and mutinies yea and of horrible blasphemies against the Majesty of God when as there should be but two publick kinds of profession in the view of all the world either of them performing the obedience which they owe unto God and the King when as any new one should spring up it would be easie to suppress it by the word of God But forasmuch as this seemeth strange to some to give Hereticks leave to sow their heresies let us
GOOD COVNSEL IN BAD TIMES Or a good motion among many bad ones Being a discovery of an old way to root out Sects and heresies and an earnest desire for a complyance with all men to settle Peace with Justice As also a Relation of a Remarkable piece of Justice done by Duke WILLIAM called the Good Likewise an Epistle to the Reader By John Musgrave a Lover of Peace and Justice Published according to Order 2 SAM 8.15 Thus David reigned over all Israel and executed judgement and justice unto all his people PROV 21.3 To do justice and judgement is more acceptable to the Lord then sacrifice LONDON Printed for Thomas Watson and are to be sold at his shop in Duck-Lane MDCXLVII To the Reader IN the beginning of these our late troubles and Civil warres I was imprisoned by the Justices of the Peace and Commissioners of Array in Cumberland maintaining the Parliamentary Protestations and opposing the Arbitrary and Tyrannicall Government of our corrupt Magistracy and Ministery there after a long and chargeable Imprisonment I was removed by an Habeas Corpus to London and freed by Parliament Authority but upon my returne back into my Countrey I was constrained to undergo a voluntary exile in Scotland most pâ—â—â— of two years even till the reducement of that Country to obedience of Parliament hoping to have found such placed in Authorities there as had beene of approved Integrity and men hating Covetousnesse I returned to my Country but contrary to my expectations finding the Militia and Authorities there setled in the hands of such as were the sworne and professed enemies of the Kingdome I and some other exiles for the Parliaments cause by certain Propositions represented our grievances and made knowne to the Parliament Commissioners how the Militia and Authorities with us were intrusted to declared Traitors but the Parliament Commissioners would not redresse our grievances Afterwards Mr Osmotherley and I were sent to London to petition the Parliament in the behalf of the well affected of Cumberland and Westmerland after we had attended the Parliament some four moneths upon a false report of the Chair-man of the Committee I was committed to the prison of the Fleet by an Order of the house of Commons where I have beene prisoner yet in all that time could I never have accesse unto Justice During my restraint here reading the History of the Netherlands I found the rise and growth of the warres and troubles of those Provinces was not so much from the dissenting Opinions in matters of Religion as from pride and covetousnesse of the King of Spaines evil Counsellours and worser Ministers of Justice who under a counterfeit zeale and pretext of setling Church Government abusing this their Princes favour and their authority went about to lay a foundation of their own greatnesse in the ruines of the people and to enrich themselves by impoverishing and subjecting those Provinces to their lawlesse wills and Tyranny and the more easie to bring that people under their Iron yoke they set up the Spanish Inquisition where-from to free themselves they were constrained to take up Arms in defence of themselves and for preservation of their almost overthrown Liberties but finding no reconciliation could be had relying upon the equity and justice of their cause by publique Edict did declare the King of Spain to bee fallen from the Seignory and authority he had in and over those Provinces a good crution for Princes by oppression not to lose the affection of their people In France a fire was kindled which the blood of millions could not quench till free exercise of Religion was granted The bloudy wars and fearful massacres and cruel murthers in Germany upon the denying the Protestants there their Liberty were so great and many as the same indangered the utter devastation of that great Empire If wee take a view of the hot persecutions of the Popish Prelates here in England in Queene Maries dayes wee shall finde the same the very cause and grounds of those severe Lawes enacted by her sister against Papists and their Priests our late Bishops and their Clergy were so puffed up with pride as they could not be contented with their great Lordships and large dominions without they might Lord it over the Consciences of others which proved to bee their ruine and now they be cast out with shame as an abhominable branch Our New Presbyters who so cryed downe their Fathers the Bishops and proclaimed against them for their cruelties and in forcing men to a blinde obedience Are they more moderate Nay These our pretended Reformers since they have beene backed by Authority and set up their great Idol Kingdomes-deviding breaking Covenant by this new forgery they endeavour and threaten to enslave all men to their lawlesse lusts Doe they not cry out No Covenant No Parliament as the Prelates did No Bishop No King every Parish Priest more Lording it then any Prelate ever did surely their destruction will be sudden if they longer persist in these Godlesse courses with our Priests our new State Politicks comply by this new devised Covenant they to hold up their faction have cast off or kept out of all place and office such as bee conscientious or honest but left their Fathers the Prelates in case ever should recover their former power and credit should condemne them in their convocation house for Hereticks these pretenders and great Reformers as they retain their old Names and Offices of Parsons and Vicars so are they zealous observers and maintainers of the old Popish Ceremonies as swearing upon a Book ringing of Bells for the dead sermons reading and praying for and over the dead which to do their dear brethren of Scotland do abhominate having rejected the same as Antichristian But left any should think what I have said touching our Covenanting Magistracy and Ministery to bee out of disaffection to their Cause and not of Truth I know that the great masters of this City who so cry up the Covenant will not admit any the freedome thereof notwithstanding they have served seven years for the same without submitting to Book-swearing the other day the Major and Chamberlaine of this Metropolis put backe and denyed one his freedome because bee would not take the Freemans Oath upon a booke Depositions of witnesses are now disalowed and rejected by our new Reforming Justices without the same be sworn upon a Book as I can prove These our Reformers doe they not discover how ready they will be to face about and willing to bow againe under the Episcopall yoak by their continuing the Statutes in force for not repairing to the Book of Common Prayer the English Masse as the Scots calls it for not repairing to the Common Prayer Booke 34. persons in Cumberland at Midsomer Sessions last were indicted by Order of our Parliaments Justices there In Yorkshire the 15. of June 1647. Mr Worsley had his Oxen and Cowes taken from him for his recusancy in not comming to the Common
Prayer Booke yet Papists in both these Countries are tollerated and protected Let Scotland beware whiles they contend for Conformity they again set not up our English Dagon but passing by formalities let both Kingdomes secure their owne Peace by yeelding to publick liberty and exercise of Religion without making search of their friends Consciences which no force can master but exulcerate rather and make worse as Courteous Reader thou maiest well discover by this ensuing discourse of Mr Baldwin delivered to the King of Spaines own hand which I have published for thine and my Countries peace and how we ought to behave our selves towards men of different Judgements and Religions For a Conclusion I give thee an exemplary act of Justice done by a Popish Earle upon a covetous and corrupt minister of Justice If our Parliament thereby would bee stirred up so to punish their Delinquent Committee men and wicked Judges injustice and oppression would stand afar off Justice depresse those factions which other wise will break this Nation whose welfare as my owne I desire John Musgrave A DISCOVRSE OF Francis Bavvdvvine Shewing the means to prevent the troubles of a Kingdom and to root out Sects and Heresies Delivered at a Conference to the King of SPAYNE Anno MDLXV ALL men which live under one King are bound to seek the preservation of the publick good and quiet History of the Netherlands written Anno 1609 in folio 356. and the entertainment of the Kings greatness and prosperity who is the Head of the Body whereof we are members I have thought that I am not to be taxed of arrogancie if according to the small Talent which I have received from the Lord I endeavour to discourse briefly of the means that might be held in these times in the which there is such great diversity of opinions To prevent all troubles and tumults that many arise as we have learned by the example of our Neighbours and withal satisfie as much as is possible the will and pleasure of the King our Lord whom by Gods law and commandment weare bound to obey and serve to the uttermost of our powers seing then as well here as in France England Scotland and Germany although there be some small difference a great part of the people are moved by exhortation and doctrine of those which they call Gospellers for that as they say they make profession to receive nothing but what is expresly contained in the Doctrine of the Gospel and of the Bible rejecting the ancient and accustomed manner of serving God as to go to masse to confess to receive the Sacrament fast for certain daies go on pilgrimages and other like exercises to joyn themselves to a new Doctrine and Religion which they call Reformed The question is how according to the Kings will and pleasure the people may be maintained in the ancient Faith without seeking any innovation and if happily the means seems somwhat difficult or rather impossible how we may prevent and shun many inconveniences which may arise or grow by the diversity that is among the Inhabitants of the Country First We must consider when any one speaketh of a Religion or Law it is to be understood that he speaketh of the Faith and apprehension which men have conceived and imprinted in their hearts and mindes touching God and his service and also touching the doctrine of their salvation Or else they comprehend not by this word Religion but the exercise and outward profession by the which we shew outwardly what we believe inwardly or at least what we should believe in our hearts As for the first It is most certain that they which follow the new Religion have a constant perswasion and impression in their hearts that what they do and believe is conformable to the word and commandment of God and they must above all things obey their Creator and rather endure death and all the torments of the world then willingly to go against his Word and commandments Seing then this maxime is graven in the hearts of men It is more then reason that God our Creator prescribe us what law he please and we are bound to obey him without any contradiction or exception whatsoever which maxime is not possible to root out of their hearts neither were there any reason to attempt it There must then some other means be sought to divert them from their faith Many have thought it best to proceed by force and terror by fire flames and all sorts of torments to the end that those which have not yet embraced this faith might by this means be terrified to remain in their ancient manner of doing but doubtless they are much abused as reason and daily experience doth teach for how is it possible to force and command the Conscience and minde by corporal violence How can any one perswade me that that man hath a bad faith whom I see die constantly and joyfully although I know not the ground of the one not the other Even as it is impossible for all the Monarchs of the world to keep the fire from exercising his heat when it encounters an object fit to burn In like sort it is as impossible for all men how mighty soever to restrain and hinder the spirit of man from discoursing and judging as he pleaseth and not to apply himself to that which he findeth best to agree with his natural impression the experience whereof is daily seen For what hath it availed to have put to death so many poor souls for the faith whereto have served the fires gibbets scaffolds tortures and torments which they have used in France in England yea and in these Countries Without doubt neither the power nor authority of men nor the sharpness of all the torments in the world avail any thing in this point The Kings of Aegypt were mighty but they could never command the consciences of the children of Israel The Romane Emperors held almost all the world in subjection who neither spared fire nor flames crosses nor gibbets cords nor tortures nor any kind of torments that could be devised or invented to root out the Christian faith and to terrifie their subjects to divert them and to retain them in their ancient belief and Pagan Religion and yet they prevailed nothing in their designes but contrariwise did much hinder their intents So that the Christians were wont to use a common proverb amongst them That the blood of their Martyrs was the seed of their Churches And indeed Iulian the apostate Emperor a malicious and subtle man seing that to root out the Christian Religion all his Predecessors had prevailed nothing but contrariwise that it was much augmented by means of the persecutions and that those which died for their faith took it for a glory and honour from that time forward he would no more persecute them neither by fire nor sword nor by any corporal violence although they hated him deadly but sought by gentleness and perswasions to draw them from
yet they held it good and holy as the King holds his and it was the Religion which they received from their Ancestors above three thousand years past But wee finde also that Christian Emperours have endured alse Religions as it appears by the example of Theodosius Horatius and Arcadius who gave Temples to the Arrians and Novaâ—â—â—ns sometime within and sometime without the City as the necessity of the time and place required In the Ecclesiasticall History It is reported for a remarkable thing that Valentianus the Emperour was Orthodox and a good Christian yet he suffered the Arrians though he favoured them not so much as the others Vallens his Colleague or Companion in the Empire was an Arrian and would by no means suffer the Christians in his Government but did persecute them in all sorts whereby we may easily gather that in all well-governed common weales to avoid sedition and tumults it is sometimes necessary to grant Temples unto Hereticks not to the intent they should disperse their Heresies more but that the people hearing â—he truth confronted with falshood might without mutinies or tumults apply themselves quietly unto the true and right Religion But our Lord and Saviour saith that he came to bring war and not peace into the world so as in one house there shall bee dissentiou betwixt the Father and the Son the Brother and the brother How can we then maintain the Religion of Jesus Christ if they will reduce all the world to one faith and to one Law seeing that for the ordering thereof hee doth not command the faithfull to kill the rest but contrary wise he saith that the Apostles and faithfull should bee betrayed excommunicated and put to death for their faith and Religion and therefore he will have them win the field through patience and the vertue of his word So as I cannot wonder sufficiently at the impudency of these men who making a shew to be well read in all ancient Histories do maintain that there were never two different Religions in one Common weale for what will they say or answer to the diversity already alleadged betwixt the Pharisees Sadduces and â—â—â—sses without doubt they shall never finde that by reason of these Sects there was any great difficulty in the Government nor that Jesus Christ nor his Apostles did ever command to burne them for their Law What shall we say of the diversity of Religions that were among the heathen whereof one did not know anothers Gods No not the Names And some also maintained publiquely that God did not care for humane things And yet wee finde not that the Government of the Romanes was troubled for this cause But who doth not see at this day under the great Turk a great diversity of Religions so as among the Christians alone there are fifteen or twenty Sects and sundry Religions besides the Jewes Persians and Mahumatists all subjects to his Empire the which are more contrary the one to the other for matter of Religion then water is contrary unto fire Without doubt if these diversities were the true cause of seditions and tumults It were not possible that the Turks power should grow so great It is then a great ignorance to think that subjects cannot be maintained in quiet when they are of divers Religions for who so will look neerly to the spring and beginnings of tumults and seditions he shall find that they proceed not so much from the diversity of Religions as through private passions as through covetousness ambition revenge hatred and such like from the which small quarrels may grow and when the Magistrate prevents it not in time then by little and little they inflame and are cause of tumults and publike seditions witness the troubles and seditions in Italy betwixt the Guelphs and Gibellines the which continued four hundred years and was the cause of infinite murthers rapes wars and all sorts of violence and yet there was no difference in the Religion but all did grow for that the Magistrate did feed the private passions of their Subjects instead of suppressing them by Justice And as for controversies touching Religion it is not two hundred years since that the controversies betwixt the Franciscans and the Iacobines for the Conception of the Virgin Mary had caused great troubles throughout all Christendom Not that the controversie was of any great importance but through the negligence of the Magistrate who nourished these factions and became partisans Seing then it appeareth that whereas good order hath been setled people of divers sects and Religions have been quietly governed without any sedition or tumult and contrariwise whereas no order was not onely diversity of Religion but even small quarrels have bred horrible seditions and tumults any man of Judgement may gather thereby that seditions and tumults take not their increase from the importance of the quarrel whereupon they are grounded but rather through the want of good order for that the Magistrates neglect to punish them that entertain them or else themselves maintain one party the which is confirmed by many ancient and modern examples And who so will examine strictly the last troubles of France shall find that the greatest part have hapned for that some mighty men or Governours themselves having no regard to the publick good nor to the ordinances of the States have at their own pleasures plaid the Kings and insulted of their own authorities over them of the Religion I think no man is so ignorant but knows that the murther committed at Vassey by the Duke of Guise against the laws of the King and State hath been the true and onely cause of the Civil Wars which followed to the ruine of the whole Realm for whilest the Kings proceeded by their authority there was no newes of any sedition how grievous soever the persecution were but when as Governours of their owne authorities offered violence to those of the Religion presently all these tumults grew the which may serve us for a good example whereby we may learn to avoid the like inconveniences and take some good course for the benefit of the King and of all his good subject which seek onely to obey him It is then easie to resolve that good order would be setled if liberty should be granted to them of the Religion to assemble and exercise their discipline restraining and bridling them with such laws as shall be thought good and that the Kings Magistrates and Officers be careful to execute his Majesties intention foreseeing above all things that the people usurp not the autority of the sword under colour of the factions of great men so as above all things there must be a prevention that all violence be forborn on either side and that those which proceed by any other unlawful means as by taxing and slandring shall be well punished which doubtless will be a most assured means and the subjects shall live in good unity and concord together and will carry a perfect obedience unto his