Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n
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A69735
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A new-yeares-gift, or, A brief exhortation to Mr. Thomas Edwards that he may breake off his old sins in the old yeare and begin the new yeare with new fruits of love, first to God, and then to his brethren / by Kathrine Chidley.
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Chidley, Katherine.
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1645
(1645)
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Wing C3833; ESTC R21712
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21,258
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29
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us we ought not to goe to law with one another before those that are without for temporall things much lesse about spirituall things For the Apostle hath declared that the Saints shall judge the world yea the Angels If this be true as no understanding man can deny then it would be a more greivious sinne and woefull adultery for the Spouse of Jesus Christ to seeke or sue to a power that is neither Jure Divino nor Jure Humano And now I will speake something to these your 8. reasons against tolleration though they are of the same nature with the other in the first book and so have been answered already yet to satisfie the Reader more fully I will here give answer unto them particularly But I would have you all men know that I doe not neither doe any that are truly religious plead for such a Toleration as you would father upon us even a Toleration to sinne We plead not for a Toleration of all sorts of persons who are members of the Church of England for that were to plead for a Toleration for Theeves and Murderers and Adulterers and Sabbath-breakers and all sorts of wicked livers that all men might doe as they list But the thing wee plead for is a peaceable enjoyment of our liberty to worship God publikely according to his revealed word most especially upon that time instituted for his publike worship even the first day of the weeke being the Lords day And that all the 6. dayes we may follow our callings without feare of the execution of such unjust Lawes which former Parliaments have made against such who would not come to their Common Prayer book or submit to all the orders of the Parishes of England for such a Toleration as this we plead IN your first reason you affirme that a Toleration of Independent Churches and governement with their opinions and practise is against the Magistrates duty laid down in the Scripture But I have proved it to be the Magistrates duty to Tolerate the true worship of God and those practises which are according to the word But you would insinuate still your old slander that we plead for a toleration of herisie and Scisme which we know is against the Magistrates duty and this maketh against your evill way For if a Parliament may not as you say displease God to please men nor winke at evill to content some persons And if Parliaments in making lawes for religion must depend on the will of God revealed in his word and not upon the consciences of some People Then it is dangerous for a Parliament to constraine men to submit to the decrees of a Synod or Presbytery when neither the Presbytery nor their decrees have ground in the word of God YOur second reason is that The Toleration desired is against the Solemne League and Covenant taken by the Parliament and Kingdomes and therefore the Toleration desired comes to late the doores being shut Ans. Here you lay a fearfull aspertion upon the Parliament for requiring such an Oath and Covenant as if they intended to shut the Kingdome of Christ and his true worship out of the three Kingdomes for you say further If the toleration were lawfull in it selfe yet because of the Oath and Covenant it is unlawfull though it might have beene granted before it cannot be granted now least the Kingdome should be guilty before God of Covenant breaking Ans. Surely you will make the Parliament all like Herod they must take poore John Baptists head off because of their oath But is this oath so foule as you would make it and yet is it like the Decree of the Medes and Persians that it may not be altered WellsGod can deliver * poore Daniell in the Lyons denne and it may be you shall come in our stead when once the Parliament discerneth your wicked intentions But Mr. Edwards bethinke your selfe will not you blush and be ashamed to give in the oath in these termes as you have ever exprest it in this your second Reason pag. 283. that we are to endeavour the reformation of Religion in the Kingdomes of England and Ireland in Doctrine Worship Governement and Discipline according to the example of the best reformed Churches forgetting the word of God which ought to have beene set before you as it was indeede by the Parliament But you deale by the Covenant as you deale by the Scriptures hack them and mangle and labour to make them fit for your owne turne and yet you jeered the Apologists when they spake of the way and practise of their Churches because they did not name the Law or Oâ—d Testament in expres words though they in the same place testifie that they reverence and adore the fulnesse of Scriptures and their sufficiency to make us perfect c. but here you have shamefully forgotten your selfe and overslipt both Law Gospel And so tye your selves to mens patterns without the word of God And surely I cannot beleeve that the Parliament hath Covenanted so as you inferre in the same page of your booke How say you can they grant a tolleration so different as their way is that will not depend upon a Synod And in the next page of the same Reason you say that there is in the Covenant a clause in the second branch that wee shall without respect of persons endeavour the extirpation of Scisme and whatsoever shall bee found contrary to sound Doctrine and the power of godlinesse least we pertake in other mens sinnes Now surely Mr. Edwards I wonder that wise men can smile upon you except it be in consideration of your folly for you are made all of contradictions unlesse you would have us take it for granted that it is according to sound doctrine and the power of godlinesse that a number of Priests should bee called together of contrary religions some for the Bishops and some for the Presbyterie and some for Christ and that the two first casting aside the last should agree to make decrees a Parliament should bee bound to establish them Would this bee now to extripate scisme nay it would be to establish a grand scisme For godlinesse is cast out by the two first and the Parliament must establish what ever shall be thought of those two first to be sound whether it be for the Bishops the antient fathers or for the Presbyters their younger sonnes and so you would have the Parliament to bee indeede guilty of their sinnes YOur third Rreason is that A Tolleration is against the nature of a Reformation and here you discover your selfe in this Reason that the Reformation you intend to make is to force all men in the Kingdom to submit to some perticular forme for you say you cannot make a reformation but it must offend many consciences But if it be so it will be the consciences of them that have knowledge in the word of God For the ignorant multitude will bee offended at
nothing but of what ever Religion their King will be of they will be of the same therefore you are a contentious man indeede that will offend the consciences of the godly to make your Church great that so your revenewes may be large YOur fourth Reason is A tolleration of men in their errors is against the judgements of the greatest lights Ans. It is granted Therefore you might have spared your labour in citing your antient fathers For in all that you doe herein I oppose you not YOur fifth Reason is that the Magistrates tollerating of errors and new opinions is a kinde of invitation to them c. Ans. This thing I grant And therefore the Magistrates ought not to tollerate errors or any opinion that is not grounded upon the word of God And therefore I conceive it to be the Magistrates duty to make tryall of the Synod whether their gathering together bee according to the word of God or according to the customes of this Kingdome And whether they bee not of the same nature with the Synod which used to sit in the Convocation house And whether any decree which they shall now pitch upon not having the Scripture for their warrant may be consented unto And though it have the Scripture for their warrant whether there bee ever the more weight in it for their decreeing of it and it greatly concerneth the Parliament to consider whether the Assembly have any thing to do with the things of God while they stand Priests by their OLD-POPISH-CALLING And that upon your ground namely that the Magistrates ought not to tollerate errors or new opinions And all waies and practises are new and strange which have not warrant in the word of God IN your sixt Reason you pleade against a tolleration of different formes of Church governement for feare of division among Ministers and families you say it will not stand with Christian policie but it will stand with Matchevillian Mr. Edwards If Christian policie might take place in the Kingdome of England and all your Matchivillian pollicie banished out there would be no striving then about different formes of Religion but Christs true Religion and Gospel would then have a free passage without interposing for the free tollerating of it will produce no mischiefes nor evills at all And it is not wee that pleade for different formes of Church governement but your owne party We pleade but for one intire governement established upon sound principles unalterable And not a government which may looke with severall faces in severall times upon severall occasions according to mens fancies And therefore it had beene better for you to have held your tongue then made so many repetitions of things which have beene sufficiently answered long agoe YOur seventh Reason is that Independency or the Church way as being a scisme in forsaking the Reformed Churches and constituting new the way of constituting Churches by the people the way of making their Ministers the refusing of beleevers and their children to the Sacraments unlesse they bee Church members with many more are all flat against the primative patterne c. In these words you have so jumbled things together as it were in a broken language If you meane that the way of Separation from your false Churches their way of making ministers constituting Churches is contrary to the primative patterne you speake untruly for they make the primative patterne their rule And then for their refusing of beleevers and their children from the Sacraments unlesse they be members of their Church in this you accuse them unjustly also for they doe admit beleevers and their Infants to the ordinance of Baptisme though they bee not members of a particular congregation for they are not capeable to be members before Baptisme in respect of order and to partake of the Supper till they be in particular Church fellowship And this I will engage my selfe to maintaine against you if it please you to dispute the case And therefore you had no neede to have branded this practise with such a blacke badge to call it the fountaine of evill and root of bitternesse and manifold errors and other mischiefes For this is but your bitter language against the truth And if you intend to make your rejoynders and large tractates which you brag of of such stuffe as you have made this Antipologia It were better for you to put on a buffe coate to go fight in the Army against your enemies then to sit at home to slander and accuse your friends even those who neâ—er did nor thought harme to you or any other YOur eighth Reason is a commendation of the Presbyteriall way and that by the testimony of many fathers and the testimony of the Scottish Commishioners But you say there will be objected a passage against it in a booke lately printed of M. Simpsons Answ. I leave Mr. Simpson and you to try it ouâ— But if you had so defined your Presbyterian governement and set downe your bounds and limitts what and what not according as you call upon the Apologists to define their Church way then you should have had my judgement of it here to the full But to judge and determin so of a thing which is not yet begotten or brought forth in this Kingdome is not so easie a matter neither do we know what forme or shape it will have when it is brought forth It may for ought I know be a MONSTER like the Image of the seven beaded beast and if it bee found defective then all who have taken the Nationall Covenant are by your own confession to endeavour the exterpation of it Yea And further you say as the Parliament will not be respecters of persons or partiall they must grant no tolleration but what is agreeable to sound doctrine In this you speake very true although indeed you crosse many of your former speeches And therefore the way to deside the controversie is to sease writing of such large tractates wherein you doe but as it were picke strawes and make abundance of repititions to tryfle away the time In my judgement I say It were better for your selfe and Mr. Samuel Rutherford and Mr. A.S. or any of you or whomsoever the Parliament shall apoint to produce Scripture and good reason for your way if you can and let as many of the Ministers of the Congregations of the Separation have freedome to produce Scripture and sound reason for their way in a free conference And let the houses of Parliament who are able to judge of the great and weighty businesses of the Kingdome let them I say have the hearing and tryall of the conference and as things are cleared so let them allow or disallow And this is according to your counsell in pag. 304. of your Antipologia where you say To conclude If the way of Independencie be of God and the Apollogists can make that good let it be established by Parliament and let all