Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
religion_n	church_n	discipline_n	government_n	3,314	5	6.9877	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A68210	A Christian letter of certaine English protestants, vnfained fauourers of the present state of religion, authorised and professed in England: vnto that reverend and learned man, Mr R. Hoo requiring resolution in certaine matters of doctrine (which seeme to ouerthrow the foundation of Christian religion, and of the church among vs) expreslie contained in his fiue books of Ecclesiasticall pollicie.	Willet, Andrew, 1562-1621, attributed name.; Cartwright, Thomas, 1535-1603, attributed name.	1599 (1599)	STC 13721; ESTC S107562	38,506	52

for the vse of those great giftes which God hath bestowed vpon you that you woulde returne and pervse advisedlie all your five bookes compare them with the articles of our profession set out by publick authoritie and with the workes Apologeticall other authorised sermons homilies of our church and of the Reverend Fathers of our Lande and with the holie booke of God and all other the Queenes Maiesties proceedings and then read and examine with an indifferent equall minde a booke sett out in Latin called Querimonia Ecclesiae and an other in Englishe late come abroade speaking of Scotizing and Genevatising Allobrogicall Discipline and having maturelie with a iudicious cōscience in the feare of God pondered and wayed them in the ballance of trueth and iustice then tell vs roundlie and soothelie That if the Reverende Fathers of our church assisted with some of the approved divines of both Vniversies did reade peruse and examine your bookes and those two other bookes whether they would not iudge in their conscience and giue sentence with their mouthes that by those three writinges the Church of Englande and all other christian Churches are vndermined and that they are verie notable bellowes if Gods mercie stayed it not to blowe the coales of sedition and fierie civill warre betweene all christian Churches and to make all people who reade them to fall either flatly to Atheisme or backewarde to poperie when they shall see all godlie Ministers and christian churches by men of their owne side and profession to be so openlie traduced and notoriouslie detected and all the articles of our Religion many partes of our church government to be checked blamed or cōtradicted And might they not thinke that the Popes factors in Englande haue some intelligence with such writers Or is that new found discipline so neerlie seated with our English creed that such expert archers ayming at the one must needes hit the other Our last scruple and demaund is this seeing your bookes bee so long and tedious in a stile not vsuall and as wee verelie thinke the like harde to be found farre differing from the simplicitie of holie Scripture and nothing after the frame of the writinges of the Reverend and learned Fathers of our church as of Crammer Ridley Latimer Iewell Whitgeeft Fox Fulke c. And that your Prefaces and discourses before you come to the question are so longe mingled with all kinde of matters and sutes of learning and doctrine whether your meaning bee to shewe your selfe to bee some rare Demosthenes or extraordinarie Rabbi or some great Pythagoras that enioyne your schollars or your adversaries to fiue yeares silence before they can be perfect in your meaning or able to replye or that these men you write against bee not sounde in matters of fayth and therefore you handle all thinges or else you had no better way to make doubtfull the chief groundes of our faith and religion and that you would haue men better seene in Philosophie and schoolemens diuinitie and namelie in Aristotle or that you were afearde that if you had not handled it with so graue heroicall and loftie a maiestie you should haue bene reputed like some other man and so your same should haue bene but small or that you would wearie your aduersarie with such thicke and continuall fallinge strokes that hee should not bee able to stande before you to strike one blow against you or that you would beare downe the cause with swelling wordes of vanitie and cunningly framed sentences to blinde and intangle the simple or that you would shew your selfe another Aristotle by a certaine metaphisicall and crupticall method to bring men into a maze that they should rather wonder at your learning thē be able to vnderstand what you teach in your writinge Wee which stande for the defence of our English church highly commend R. H. bookes wee alleadge your opinions as well as wee can to stop the mouthes of foolish carpers Wee commend your books as very excellent and learnedly penned and not to be answered then they promptly aske your reasons and require of vs to shew by what arguments you maintaine those assertions then returne wee to your bookes wee seeke and beate our braynes but are hardely able by our meane capacitie to gather any thinge but as a man a farre of beholding a bryer tree all blowen ouer with his flowers with great desire approacheth neere vnto it and findeth himselfe deceaved so the delight of reading your booke is meruelous great but the fruit thereof howsoeuer it come to passe vnto vs that search and examine it is far vnlike the goodlie shew and appearance In the booke of that most learned and reuerend Father D. Withgift wee finde the question iudicially sett downe his aunswere to the matter in question sensible his reasons eyther from holy scripture from Fathers or new writers without all circumferences and crooked windings directly applied so as such poore men as wee be may beare away what hee saith and what hee intendeth but in your writing wee are mightely incombred wee walke as in a labyrinth and are suddenlie ouerwhelmed as in the deepe sea sometime it seemeth to vs that wee see great florishing of warlike and glittering weapons and to heare the lowde outcryes and noyce of them which pursue their enemies in battell thundring gunshott tossing of speares and ratling of harnesse yet cannot we perfectly perceaue any thinge almost rightly to touch the aduersarie pretended but rather as in our demandes before wee verely thinke doeth manifestly appeare most heauie stroakes poysoned pellettes and dangerous pushes of the pikes against the Ierusalem of God the holy Christian church of Englande whom you would seeme to defende Wee desire you therefore with all instancie that you would not denie vs three things First to shewe vnto vs what arguments you haue alleadged which are materiall and of waight which are not to bee found in the aunswere of that reuerend Father vnto Maister Carthwright and herein plainly to de clare which be your arguments or direct aunswers which are neither fine and close Ironies or blustring bitter scoffes begging of the question or peremptorie affirmations and how wee may knowe what is the state of the question and when you are in or out and what you holde in your conscience to bee the trueth in Gods sight howe great and large your fiue bookes would bee if you had vsed reasonable intelligible and logicall argumentes onely as other writers and disputers doe and had left out all needlesse wittie gloses and Rhetoricall shadowes in preambles discourses digressions amplifications and had kept your selfe out of the common iayle of sophisticall elenches and impertinent outleapes and had followed S. Peters prescript in a meeke reuerend and direct apollogie and defense proceeding from a good conscience Secondly that if you sett foorth your other bookes which are promised you would bee more playne and sensible and followe the vsuall language and stile of

A CHRISTIAN LETTER of certaine English Protestants vnfained fauourers of the present state of Religion authorised and professed in ENGLAND vnto that Reverend and learned man M r R. Hoo. requiring resolution in certaine matters of doctrine which seeme to ouerthrow the foundation of Christian Religion and of the church among vs expreslie contained in his fiue books of Ecclesiasticall Pollicie 1599. A Christian LETTER of certaine English Protestantes vnfayned fauourers of the present state of religion authorised and professed in England vnto that Reuerend and Learned man Maister R. Hoo. requiring resolution in certayne matters of doctrine which seeme to ouerthrowe the foundation of Christian Religion and of the Church among vs expreslie contayned in his fiue bookes of Ecclesiasticall Policie WHEN men dreame they are asleepe and while men sleepe the enemie soweth tares and tares take roote and hinder the good corne of the Church before it be espied Therefore Wise men through silence permitt nothing looselie to passe away as in a dreame Your offer then Maist. Hoo. is godly and laudable to enforme men of the estate of the church of God established among vs. For the Teachers of righteous things are highlie to be commēded And he that leadeth mē rightlie to iudge of the church of God is to be beloued of all men Howbeit sometimes goodlie promises are meere formal and great offers serue onely to hoodwinke such as meane well And as by a faire shew of wishing well our first parents were fowlie deceaued so is there a cunning framed method by excellencie of wordes intising speeches of mans wisedome to beguile and bewitch the verie Church of GOD. And such as are vsed for this purpose come in sheepes clothing For he translateth him self into an Angel of light who blindeth all men with vtter darknes When wee therefore your louing cuntrymen vnfaynedlie fouoring the present state and embracing from our heartes the Gospel of Christ as it is preached and professed in England being readie euery hower to giue vp our liues for Gods glorie and the honour of our Queene hauing so goodlie a champion to offer combat in our defence were made verie secure and by the sweete sounde of your melodious stile almost cast into a dreaming sleepe Wee happelie remembring your Preface that there might bee some other cause opened at the length our heauie eyes and casting some more earnest and intentiue sight into your manner of fight it seemed vnto vs that couertlie and vnderhand you did bende all your skill and force against the present state of our English church and by colour of defending the discipline and gouuernement thereof to make questionable and bring in contempt the doctrine and faith it selfe For we saw the theme and the cause you haue in hand to be notable simples whereof a skilfull popishe Apoticarie can readilie make some fine potion or sweete smelling ointment to bring heedlesse men into the pleasant dreame of well-weening while they closelie set on fire the house of God And may wee not trulie say that vnder the shewe of inveighing against Puritanes the chiefest pointes of popish blasphemie are many times and in many places by diuers men not obscurelie broached both in Sermons and in Writing to the great griefe of manie faithfull subiectes who pray for the blessed and peaceable continuance of her most gracious Maiestie and of the estate of the Church of IESVS Christ as it is nowe established among vs. And verelie such a thing offered it selfe vnto our eyes in reading your bookes and we had not skill howe to iudge otherwise of the handling of your penne and of the scope of your matter Notwithstanding because rash iudgemēt may preiudice honest trauailes and faithfull labourers may haue their vnaduised slippes and we could not tell howe zeale loue or glorie might carie a man of such towardlie and excellent giftes in the firste shewing of him selfe to the worlde or that an earnest striuing bending your selfe in heate of disputation against the one side might dazell your eyes and drawe your hande at vnawares to farre and too fauourable to the other side or else peradventure we might mistake your meaning and so wee should doe you wrong against our willes We thought it therefore our parte in regarde of our dutie to the Church and most agreeing to charitie both for your credit and our ease in all christian loue to intreat you that as you tēder the good estate of Christes church among vs and of thousands cōuerted to the gospel you would in like publike manner but plainly and directlie shew vnto vs and all English Protestantes your owne true meaning and how your wordes in diuers thinges doe agree with the doctrine established among vs. And that not onelie for avoyding of offence giuen to many godlie and religious Christians but also that the Atheistes Papistes and other hereticques be not incouraged by your so harde and so harsh stile beating as it were as we verilie thinke against the verie heart of all true christian doctrine professed by her Maiestie and the whole state of this Realme to despise and set light by her sacred Maiestie the reverend Fathers of our Church and the whole cause of our religion Wee haue made choyce therefore of a few principal things which trouble manie godlie minded christians who aduisedlie read ouer your bookes that by the sincere answering and vpright clearinge of them you might satisfie vs all both in them and in all the rest and free your selfe from all suspition of falshoode or treacherie and make vs able to giue a reason of defence vnto all such as stumble at your writinges And for your better ease herein and our more readie satisfaction we haue compared your positions and assertions in your long discourses vnto the articles of religion sett forth An̄ Dn̄i 1562. and confirmed by Parliament the 13. of her Maiesties most blessed ioyfull reigne and vnto the Apologies of such Reverend Fathers and chiefe pillars of our church as from time to time since the Gospell began to shine among vs haue written and preached and euerie way laboured to advaunce and defende the same with the Liturgie church governement established among vs. If you therefore good Ma. Hoo. will make it to appeare to the world that in these pointes you are all one in iudgement with the church of Englande and that your such speaches wherewith your godly brethrē are grieued may beare such sence and meaning or else as euery humble christian will doe freelie and ingenuouslie acknowledge your vnwilling ouersight or at the least which we vndoubtedly beleeue you will neuer bee able shew plainlie and by good demonstration that all our Reuerend Fathers haue hitherto bene deceaued then shall we hold our selues very well contented and satisfied Hoping therfore of your charitable direct plaine sincere and speedie answere we tender here our doubtes vnto your christian consideration and craue your brotherlie resolution in manner and forme following One foundation of christian

base and meane persons that on them onely so mightie a man should spend his sharpe arrowes and coales of Iuniper but you will passe ouer the Seas and search the sepulchers of the straungers and finding no man aliue worthie your combat you call Maister Calvin out of his sweete bedd of rest and him that is entred into peace you chalendge againe into the fielde Will no man fitt you but he that was as you brauely affirme incōparably the wisest mā that euer the French church did enioy since the hower it did enioy him to whom thousands were debters and who for his exceeding paynes in composinge the institutions of Christian Religion exposition of holy scripture gayned the advantage of preiudice against all gainsayers following him and of glorie aboue all that consented to him How vnlike are you vnto that great mightie Goliah who defied the whole Host of God and made challenge of a man out of them all he was so proude that he demanded but chose not he sought for one that was aliue and vaunted not him selfe ouer one that was dead And heere wee most instantlie beseech you whether your weapons be the wordes of righteousnesse and the faithfull penne of trueth Where learned you and howe proove you that Mai. Calvin was the founder of discipline And herein declare vnto vs what moued that Reverend and learned man Mai. D. Whitgeeft to spende so manie leaues to shewe that the partes of Discipline might be altered by the civill Magistrate as seruing more fitlie for the Apostles time and the time of persecution then for vs hauing the Magistrate to friende and liuing in peace and quietnes If Maister Caluin as the true storie reporteth obtayned the consent of the townes men of Geneva not onelie by demonstration out of the holy scriptures but also by shewing the minde of verie learned men of his age out of their writings as of Oecolampadius Swinglius Suychius Philip Bucer Capito and Miconius who was the founder of the discipline Where had these notable men their iudgement Did he teach them or write before them Was it not one founder euen the Lorde Christe the author and builder of his Church who raised vp diuers men in diuers places and taught them by the same spirit out of the same holie scripture the same doctrine and commaundement of trueth and righteousnes Shew vs also we pray you before our God which searcheth the heart whether we haue not iust cause to iudge that in penning this storie you make of Calvin your purpose were not to deceaue your reader by an artificiall entwining of some part of the trueth with the hollow glittering threed of your owne wittie coniectures and peremptorie censures as namelie when you beginne to tell of the repentance of the people of Genevah irefullie champing vpon the bitt you suddenlie fall into a discourse of the rising vp of those reformed churches you besprinckle them with likelihood of desire of glorie of their owne enterprises you blame thē that in that troublesome time they wanted common cōference and that afterwardes least they should derogate from their credite they became euer after resolute to maintayne that whiche they had done and so leauing the churches all bespotted with leuitie and selfepride and eased of all conscience and honestie you closelie thrust in Calvin with this worde therefore that he and his associates as parteners of the same selfe weening stiffelie refusing to administer the holie Communion were banished the towne After speaking of his restoring and reestablishing of Discipline you haue in one place Many things might lead them c. And in other place He rightelie considered c. This devise I see not howe the wisest c. And again This sorte it may be c. Therefore we pray you to teach vs how such might lead may bees such entring into his thought and crosse commending that for his divise which he simply propounded as out of the Scriptures of God may not drop into your readers heart such vnheeded impressions as may make him highly admire R. H. great grauitie and iudicious wisedome and J. Caluins carnall pollicie fine hipocrisie and peremptorie follie We beseech you also helpe vs in these things following First the true storie saith Many being at the first gently admonished for many vnworthy acts and for old enmitie among the chiefe families and the stubberne being more sharpely reproued the citie was diuided by the faction of certayne priuate men Farellus and Calvin with Coraldus openly protested that they could not orderly celebrate the Lordes Supper vnto men so much at discorde At which time also betwixt the Church at Barne and Genevah was difference in certayne rites which while they were aboute to sett in order by a Synod summoned for that purpose the chief Magistrates for that yeare of Genevah being the Captaynes of the factions and discorde assembling the people brought the matter to this ende that these three faithfull seruants of God were commanded to depart the towne within two dayes And when these Officers like vnto filthy froth were cast out the one accused of seditiō going about to escape through a window falling downe headlong by the pease of his bodie was so hurte that within few dayes hee dyed another for murther was put to death and the two other being accused for ill gouern ment in a certaine embassage forsooke the cuntrie and were condemned being absent the Citie then began to seeke againe for their Farellus and Calvin You say when these things began to bee put in vre the people began to repent them of that they had done the rather for that they grew by meanes of this innovation into dislike with some Churches neere about them c. and so Calvin and his associates as is afore said were banished and that after the places of one or two of their Ministers beeing fallen voyde they are importunate to obtayne Calvin agayne and that they were content the other two should enioy their exile The contradiction of these two stories we pray you to reconcile eyther by the 24. epist. which you cite or by anie true narration whatsoeuer First shew vs that the dislike of other churches was for discipline and that for that dislike the towne was the rather mooued against Calvin And whether rather these churches did not make intercession by the decree of a Synode for Calvin to the Genevians Secondlie whether those Sindickes being wicked and taken away by the righteous iudgments of almightie God the people were not made free from the former factions and whether that thervpon the Lord moouing their mindes they remembred not the iniuries done to those two good Pastors And shewe vs by cleare demonstration they sought not as well for Farellus as for Calvin And heere also without your helpe wee knowe not what construction to make of your descanting on the Ministers assuring Calvin of their allegeance his returning as it had bene another Tullie and

the assenting of the people with no lesse alacritie of minde then cities vnable to holde outlonger Are these anie other but bitter skornes and despitefull fictions And to omitt many things because this is a personall cause we doe most hartilie begge at your handes to aunswere vs truelie and faithfullie whether you thinke Maister Calvin to haue bene an honest truehearted christian fearing God and not an imposter and a deceaver of the people or at the least you would haue men so to esteeme of him For howe can wee otherwise coniecture in that you blame him more for the countenancing of discipline beeing established then for establishing of it affirming with no small incitements of cunning insinuations that because hee by wisedome and not by the word of God saw that discipline requisite for that people hee imployed all his witt by sifting the very vtmost sentence and sillable of holy Scripture to confirme the same and not to omit the leaste occasion in all his writinges following of extolling the vse and singular necessitie thereof If wee may thus iudge of his faithfulnesse in promoting of discipline what may wee suspect of his sincere dealing in the doctrine About rites as the ministring with common bread you acknowledge that he would not stande with the Church to make trouble for a thinge indifferent and why if he were a good man should we thinke that hee would professe it to bee trayterous cowardlines not to dye a hundred times rather then to suffer that to bee wickedly borne downe which hee very well knew to bee taken out of the word of God Can you so farre make manifest eyther by good and iust presumptions or by playne and true storie his deepe hipocrisie and arrogant pride that euen against his owne conscience hee woulde so earnestly striue and trouble the whole Church to maintaine a deuise of his owne Wee pray you therefore to shewe vs sincerelie whether such insinuations bee charitable and whether if you bee a friend to the Gospell you make not a greater rent in Gods Church by such arguments then if you medled not at all in the matter but left it to men of more stayde and sounde discretion and of a more charitable and peaceable spirite For if such bolde and bare affirmations may goe for payment why may wee not as well heare and beleeue Maister Harding which calles all the whole and pure doctrine beleeued and professed in England A wicked new deuise of Geneva We desire you therfore in the name of our Lorde Iesus Christ who shall iudge all men at his cōming and make manifest the intents thoughts of the heart to shew vnto vs without all artificiall glozing whether all this your treatise of Calvin be not polished armour and a sharper rasor prepared for the vse and helpe of the enemies of the Gospell and that it may not rather bee called a preiudiciall commentarie and a Popish paraphrase then a storie true plaine and without partialitie and that men haue not iust cause to thinke the better of Maister Calvin and the cause of discipline when they see so litle plaine and faithfull dealing in your writing Reade therefore his preface before his comment on the Psalmes and Beza his storie of his life and the French or any other stories or monuments of faithfull honest Christians and then aunswere faithfully the trueth and shewe your honest meaning Our reverend Fathers converting their studies frō schoole authors vnto the holy scriptures and causing others to do the like brought many to be well seene in divinite and themselues and others well affected in Religion and therefore constantlie affirme that The heauenly doctrine of our Sauiour Christ was so buried in the darkenesse of schoole-learning that no man tasted the sweetnes of it which to be true that worthy man Martin Luther through Gods goodnes to his Church finding by great experience in him selfe and others is bolde to say Theologia illa scholastica exulem nobis fecit veram sincer am theologiam That schoole diuinitie hath banished from vs the true sincere divinitie And againe Totus Aristoteles ad Theologiam est tenebra ad lucem All Aristotle vnto divinitie is darkenes vnto light Now in all your bookes although we finde manie good things many truethes and fine pointes bravelie handled yet in all your discourse for the most parte Aristotle the patriarch of Philosophers with divers other humane writers and the ingenuous schoolemen almost in all pointes haue some finger Reason is highlie sett vp against holie scripture and reading against preaching the church of Rome favourablie admitted to bee of the house of God Calvin with the reformed churches full of faults most of all they which indeuoured to be most removed from conformitie with the church of Rome Almost all the principall pointes of our English creede greatlie shaken and contradicted If you doe not sincerelie plainelie and truelie aunswere all these our necessarie doubtes and demandes what shall we haue cause to thinke of these your tedious and laborious writinges Shall wee doe you wronge to suspect you as a privie and subtill enemie to the whole state of the Englishe Church and that would haue men to deeme her Maiestie to haue done ill in abolishing the Romish religion and banishing the Popes authoritie and that you would bee glad to see the backesliding of all reformed churches to bee made conformable to that wicked synagogue of Rome and shame and reproche to all faithfull Ministers whom GOD hath raysed vp to reveale and beate downe Antichrist and that you esteeme the preaching and writing of all the Reverend Fathers of our Church and the bookes of holy scripture to bee at the least of no greater moment then Aristotle and the Schoolemen Or else doe you meane to bring in a confusion of all thinges to reconcile heauen and earth and to make all religions equall Will you bring vs to Atheisme or to Poperie or to prepare a plott for an Interim that our streetes may runne with blood when all religious shalbee tollerated and one shall bearde and provoke another Are there not examples sufficient of vnspeakeable massacres abroade vnlesse wee should fett the same home to our countrie reioycing vnder the blessed vnitie of the Gospell of peace Thinke you that the longe experience of Gods protection in these golden dayes of quiet concorde the religious and peaceable heart of our deare soueraigne Ladie and Queene ELIZABETH for whose ioyful preservation all good and christian minded English men doe vnceasantlie pray and the thousandes of faithfull subiectes who haue learned Christ vnder the shadowe of her most happie and honorable reigne would euer giue you thankes for such great service or euer agree vnto such abhominations if they should once beginne to espie such stratagemicall operations to appeare in their effectes and to shewe them selues directlie and openlie We beseech you therefore in the Name of IESVS Christ and as you will aunswere