Fourth of Edward the Third and the words of it are these It is accorded that a Parliament shall be holden every year once and more often if need be Now Sir you must observe that this Act was made whilst the King was but Nineteen years of age and both himself and Kingdom under the care of Twelve Governours His Mother Queen Isabel and Roger Mortimer very powerful the Governours of the Pupil King divided amongst themselves and many other pressing affairs of the Nation oblig'd most people to propose that expedient of frequent Parliaments as the most probable means to secure the peace and prosperity of the Kingdom at least until the King should come of riper years and thereby many differences be reconciled After this in the Thirty sixth year of his Reign he called a Parliament and wanting money as generally he did the Parliament would grant nothing until an Act passed for maintenance of former Articles and Statutes there expressed And that for redress of divers mischiefs and grievances which daily happen a Parliament shall be holden every year as another time was ordained by Statute These are the two Statutes intended by our Author when he tells us that the Statute of Edward the first was confirmed by that glorious Prince Edward the third Whereas in truth they were both made by the same King and both in a great measure revoked in his own time Having declared after the making this last Act that he yielded to it only to serve his own turn This Sir is the matter of Fact upon which our Author builds his great pretensions to the old constitutions of Annual Parliaments The first Act was made whilst the King was very young the second when he wanted money and had Twenty six shillings and eight pence granted him upon every sack of wool transported for three years And both first and second Acts were broken by several intermissions before he died Besides we must make this remark that a Parliament seldom met without giving the King some money which might encourage those Kings to assemble them oftner than lately they have done But the truth is Annual Parliaments were lookt upon as so great a grievance to the Nation that we find that about the Tenth year of Richard the Second his Successor it was thought a great Prerogative in the King that he might call a Parliament once a year And both Houses appointed the Duke of Glocester and Thomas Arundell Bishop of Ely to acquaint the King that by an old Statute the King once a year might lawfully summon his Court of Parliament for reformation of corruptions and enormities within the Realm And if we consider with our selves we shall find that if yearly Parliaments were imposed upon us they would become grievances equally insupportable as to have no Parliaments at all For if the Knights Citizens and Burgesses be chosen out of the Countrey Gentlemen and Merchants inhabiting those Countries where they are elected as sure they ought to be what inconvenience if not ruin must it bring upon their affairs when they shall be forced to run every year a hundred or two hundred Miles from their particular domestick affairs to serve in a formal Parliament in which it may be the greatest business will be to make business for the next Indeed for idle persons who live about Town and have nothing to do but to scrible knavish politicks to the disturbance of honest men such a constitution might do well enough if they could get to be chosen members But we find from experience and History that in those days when Ambition and Faction were not so much in vogue as at present men were so far from making parties to get into the Parliament that many Commoners and Lords too have petitioned and been excused their attendance The King 's Queen's and Prince's Servants have stood upon their priviledge of exemption So James Barner was discharged by the King's command Quia erat de retinentia Regis 7. R. 2 and the Lord de Vessey in Edward the Fourths time obtained Licence not to serve in Parliament during his life Rex concessit Henrico Bromflet Dom. de Vessey quod ipse durante vita sit exoneratus de veniendo ad Parl. Besides the very Writ of Summons shews that in the original institution and design of Parliaments a frequent meeting could not be necessary For they were only to treat concilium impendere de magnis arduis negotiis Now God help us if every year should produce such magna ardua negotia such difficult and weighty affairs that the King with his Judges and â—rivy Council could not determine them without assembling his great Council the Parliament I confess in our Authors Chimerical model I am perswaded our circumstances would be bad enough but I thank God we are not gotten there yet Thus you see Sir that this grievance in not having annual Parliaments is become no grievance at all Mer. I begin Cousin to lose all manner of respect for this mistaken Mountebank For I perceive notwithstanding his great words and pretences all is but wind emptinâ—ss and cheat Having therefore fully satisfieâ— me concerning our liberties properties and Parliaments pray forget not to say somewhat of our Religion Trav. Sir I shall not presume to meddle with the Doctrinal part of any Religion that being none of my Province Nor shall I say much concerning the Ceremonial part or discipline of our own that is to say the Church of England It is sufficient to mind you that both the Doctrine and Discipline in Church Government have been established and confirm'd by several Acts of Parliament and Statutes Which Parliaments being the most Soveraign power that our Author himself pretends to set up amongst us we ought all to acquiesce in and be concluded by what they have done until an equal authority shall repeal those Acts or otherwise determine concerning us Mer. There is no objection can be made against this answer But Sir since the difference in our Religion seems manifestly to occasion most of our troubles why may not the King by his own authority dispence with the penal part of these Laws or grant a toleration especially to Protestant Dissenters or encourage an Act of Parliament for uniting them into the Church of England or else why might not the same Church release some part of the rigour of the Discipline and Ceremony since 't is agreed on all hands that the observance or non-observance of them are not points necessary or absolutely conducing to Salvation Trav. Cousin I shall answer you all these questions as plain as I can And first I shall never believe that true and unfeigned Religion especially amongst men where the Doctrine agrees is ever the real cause of any troubles disturbance or disobedience to lawful authority such as is that which produces an Act of Parliament even in our Authors sence being so contrary to the Doctrine and Principles of Christian Religion that I may confidently affirm where
produce good reason and authority for this my opinion Mer. Pray Cousin use all manner of liberty in your discourse for I only minded you of your Profession yesterday not that I question your sincerity but as being an impartial Judge neither a Papist nor a Dissenter I might oblige you to settle this point equally between them Trav. I do not pretend to be a Judge but shall endeavour to open the case faithfully and leave the rest to your more prudent determination First then we must state the difference between these two parties as they relate to us and not to descend to particular points I shall only say that the Papists differ from us in the doctrinal part of Religion that is to say in points which they believe absolutely necessary to Salvation The Dissenters in the Discipline only viz. Ceremonies and Church Government which they declare may be either used or neglected without the necessary consequence of damnation Mer. Right Sir and from hence I should conclude that the Dissenters agreeing more nearly with us than the Papists ought rather to be tolerated than they who differ so much and so materially from us Trav. And I for that very reason hold the contrary Mer. Pray Sir proceed and unriddle this Paradox Trav. Next then we must agree that the doctrinal parts of the Popish Religion in which they differ from us as Transubstantiation and some others supposing them right and necâ—ssary as they believe they are consist of such high speculative points as cannot possibly be made demonstrable by humane reason nor otherwise be seen than by the eyes of faith but require a supernatural revelation or the special Grace of an invisible omnipotent power working in our hearts Hence Grotius tells us that Doctrina hâ—c penitus in animum admitti nequeat nisi sanctis Dei auxiliis accedentibus lib. 2. â—4 20. This then supposed I must affirm that outward force is not a proper means to convince a mans reason of speculative truths For a man cannot always believe just when he says he will but rather oftentimes when he pretends he will not he is then forc't to believe if proportionate arguments be used even whether he will or no and these proportionate arguments are such as force the reason only and whilst they perstringe the mind do not constrain the body such as oblige by way of â—atiocination to consent to certain propositions and necessary consequences which they cannot avoid arguments which reach the inward man but leave the outward man untoucht Now how improper a means â—orporal violence is to obtain such a spiritual end I leave to your judgment If it be then necessary that a mans reason should be convinc't of a speculative truth before he can beleive it it will follow that those who use violence and force to oblige a people to embrace an opinion which they do not or can not understand commit either the greatest injustice towards man or the greatest impiety toward God The injustice towards man lies in this that they either force them to profess what they do not believe which is hypocrisie and a lie or they punish them for not doing that which is not in their power to do which is the height of Tyranny And Grotius tells us in his Cap de poenis that it was provided in the Council of Toledo That thenâ—eforward no man should be forc'â— to believe for God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy and whom he pleaseth to harden he hardeneth Praecipit sancta Synodus nemini deinceps vim inferri cui enim vult Deus miseretur quem vult indurat And he adds quod perinique faciunt that they do most wickedly who punish men amongst Christians for not believing or erring in some speculative points which they do not understand St. Augustine also Athanasius Hilarius and Salviâ—nus are all of the same opinion as may be seen there more at large in the same Cap. de poenis where Grotius farther informs us that the French Bishops were condemned by the Church for using violence against the Prisciliâ—nistâ— In the next place if it be not injustice towards man it is impiety towards God and must suppose that the gift of the holy Spirit â—raâ—e oâ— Illâ—mination which is necessary for the understanding these Divine mysteries is in the power of mortal man which was the sin of Simon Magus son to buy the holy Ghost for money or to oâ—tain it by force is equally injuriouâ— and dishonourable to a Deity And we find that although the Sadduces differed from the rest of the Jewes in so material a point as that of the Resurrection which they totally denied yet they received no manner of punishment upon that account nor was there any force used to perswade them to embrace and believe so necessary a doctrine when yet at the same time Sabbath-breakers because it related to the discipline and Government of the Church were punished with Death Merch. I thank you Sir and do assure you that I was ever of this opinion But I do not yet understand why you do not apply the same reasons for Dissenters and other people as well as the Papists Trav. I thought Sir the last instance would have answered that question which is that the Dissenters differ only in point of discipliâ—… and Government which according to our constitution they agree command nothing damnable or impossible to be understood or contrary to the hopes of Salvation And in such case outward force is the proper means to reduce obstinate men to their duty and a compliance with that Government which they ought and which they confess they may obey So in some Roman Catholick Countries the Protestant Religion is tolerated and its professors secured by many Grants and Priviledges because their difference consists in speculative points whereas those Roman Catholicks themselves who agreeing in the Doctrinal part shall differ in the Discipline or Church Government are punished with the extreamest rigour We must distinguish therefore between Discipline and Doctrine as also between faith and obedience And in confirmation of this we may remember another reason why a toleration is more allowable to Popish Recâ—sants than to the Dissenters viz because it is notoriously known that the Papists have ventured both their lives and fortunes to support our present Government as it is by Law established even against these very dissenters who rebell'd against it and by force of arms and open hostility endeavour'd totally to subvert it And having obtain'd a victory did actually destroy both our lawful King and Governour as well as government Mer. This is too true and it were impudence to deny any part of it But it hath been said that the Papists in our late troubles ventur'd their lives more out of hopes of their own establishment than of the Government Trav. That under favour is a malicious and a frivolous objection For what grounds of hopes had they to alter the Government against the consent of the
one is the other cannot be Such men therefore who make use of that Sacred name to countenance any disquiet in the Government ought according to the most impartial judgment which we can make of mens opinions by their actions to be esteemed as men having no Religion rather than as true Professors of the Christian Faith and that they put the highest abuse and indignity upon Christ and his Apostles when they make the profession of their most peaceable doctrine a pretence mask or cloak to cover their Secular interest or ambition Mer. But dear Cousin we must judge charitably and not conclude all Dissenters such knaves and villains as either to have no Religion or to make that which they have a blind to some other worldly design Trav. Truly Sir for the commoner sort of people I am inclin'd enough to think it may be better of them than they deserve knowing well how apt they are to be carried away with every wind of doctrine But those who are their Ringleaders are by so much the more inexcusable by how much they take advantage of the peoples weakness Yet this would be only pernicious to themselves and punishable in the world to come But their ungodly and malicious Preachers and factious heads mingling dexterously worldly poison with their spiritual food at length their whole bodies and mass of blood becomes corrupted when grown rank and swell'd like the heathen Prophetesses with the deadly poyson and power of the Devil they ravingly dispense their Enthusiastical dreams and visions no less injurious to the Providence of God than to the government of man Since then I say these their wicked Counsellors do certainly produce these effects it is equally charitable to think that they have no Religion as to say that they abuse that which they profess to such damnable ends Mer. But they tell you no such thing On the contrary no men talk more of God none inveigh more bitterly against the debaucherâ—es of the age we live in none pretend greater humility and in a word to outward appearance at least none seem to practise more sincerely the doctrine which they preach Trav. Quid opus est verbis cum facta videam What Poisoner do you think would not tell you that the Ratsbane which he offers you is the purest sugar You and I Cousin cannot forget how these very men some of which are living at this day and their disciples behaved themselves when in the rebellious sanctified times they usurp'd the whole power of the land Can you forget how they persecuted the Church of England how they Sequester'd our Estates Imprison'd Proscrib'd and murder'd our Persons forc'd many to seek out Dens and Caves in Woods and Rocks to secure their lives from the insolence and fury of these humble-minded gospel-preaching holy Wolves Are they yet chang'd are they not pursuing still the same point Are their Associations and Conspiracies against the foundation of our antient rights priviledges government and life it self of His present Sacred Majesty evidences of their repentance for the murder of the late Blessed Martyr for those flouds of innocent blood which have corrupted our land ever since and those violent extortions and impositions executed upon the Estates of their fellow Subjects and fellow-labourers too in that Vineyard which both pretend to cultivate and with whom they profess to agree in the Substantial and Doctrinal part of Religion Are these arguments to convince us of their sincere intentions towards us Mer. This is indeed notorious matter of fact and undeniable but however they now express a willingness to comply with us and to be comprehended all under one Church and Church government Only they desire that our Ceremonies might be abolish'd which being circumstantial only and not absolutely necessary to Salvation which is the great end of Religion they pray that our Governours in consideration of their weakness would not tye them to harder meat than they can digest but being babes and to be fed with milk would have us condescend to their infirmities and not to boast too much of our own strength for those who are strong ought to take heed lâ—st they fall Trav. I perceive Sir you have been more conversant with this sort of people than I thought you had for I find that you have gotten their very Cant but you shall have I hope a very satisfactory answer And first for our strength I confess it behoves us all to take heed lest we fall but if that great care be an argument against us it is no less against themselves For if it be so difficult for the strong to pass through this narrow way and over these dangerous preoipices what circumspection then ought the weak Travellers to use in this their Pilgrimage Ought they not rather to seek to us for some support than trust to their own imbecillity And you cannot deny but that they do truly acknowledge themselves to be weak or that they abuse us when they desire we should condescend to them both which will equally reflect upon them And next Sir for our compliance with them rather than their conformity with us I think it the most unreasonable request that ever men made Will a wise Father comply with a froward Son or a Master with his obstinate Servant or a Physician with the deprav'd and false appetite of his sick patient Sure it would be nothing less than inverting the whole course and order of nature Mer. Sir I am convinc'd that they may and ought to comply with our Government but since your hand is in pray let me have your opinion concerning the Popish Recusants and whether you do not think that they are more to be apprehended in our Government than the Dissenters are and by consequence that a Parliament or Parliamentary way of Government might not be very conducible to our security against them especially as our circumstances stand and may probably continue Trav. I understand you Sir and shall give you my sence of the thing freely as hitherto I have done And in the first place I answer plainly that I do not think the Papists I mean now and always the Secular or Temporal Papists or Laiâ—y so dangerous to our Government as the Dissenters but that according to the rule of true Polity the former are more tolerable among us than the latter Mer. Have a care Cousin that you do not contradict the good account which you gave of your own Religion yesterday For whosoever stands up for a Popish toleration at this time will be shrewdly suspected to be at least Popishly inclin'd if not a Papist Trav. Sir I again confirm what I said yesterday nor do I tell you now that I would have the Papists tolerated it belongs to the Government to look after these matters but I must affirm according to my judgment that if the question be put which may be the most safely tolerated the Papists or Dissenters I must give it for the Papists and I think I shall
Conscience Shall all Religions as Papists Orthodox Protestants Presbyterians Independents and other Fanaâ—icks and Sectaâ—iâ—â— be promiscuously tolerated If not â—ll then injustice must be done to those who are restrained Who being all equally freeborn Subjects our grievances will not thereby be heal'd If all can any man of sense and sobriety imagine that men of such different principles aggravated too by strong animosities and prejudice will rejoice or be satisfied to see the tranquillity or propagation of those principles which they hate and believe most damnable Or should they establish one Church which should be the mother Church under whose discipline and government the other different Congregations were to be regulated would it be the Orthodox Church of England Ah Cousin let us consider what our Author declares p. 188. I will add says he the little credit the Church of England hath among the people most men being almost as angry with that Popery which is left amongst us in Surplices Copes Altars Cringes Bishops Ecclesiastical Courts and the whole Hierarchy besides an infinite number of idle useless Superstitious Ceremonies and the ignorance and viciousness of the Clergy in general as they are with those dogmâ—'s that are abolish'd So that there is no hopes that Popery can be kept out but by a company of poor people call'd Fanaticks who are driven into corners as the first Christians were and who only in truth conserve the Purity of Christian Religion as it was planted by Christ and his Apostles and is contain'd in Scripture Now Sir can we hope that an impudent Fanatick who dares publish all this even whilst our Government is yet intire will faâ—l to introduce his Geneva discipline and bring his poor Fâ—naticks out of their corners when he or his disciples shall be once themselves at the helm in our Palaces Will he suffer think you the orthodox Religion of the Church of England by Law established or its professors to enjoy those just rights and priviledges which they have done ever since the first plantation of Christianity among us Or shall we not be all crowded into those corners from whence he shall have fetcht his poor Apostolick Fanaticks Will the Papists have better measure than the Protestaâ—ts and will this be a setling the Nation and redressing its Grievances Must our gracious King and his lawful Successors who alone do and can and are willing still to protect us be deserted and shall we run headlong into the open jawes of those weeping waâ—ling canting praying still dissembling but ever devouring Crocodiles Dear Cousin oblige me not to speak more upon such a dismal subject the consideration of which must either break our hearts or raise our indignation beyond that temper which I would willingly retain Merch Sir assure your self that I heartily comply with you in all that you have said and symâ—athise with you no lâ—ss in your â—ust resentment than fears of their diabolical machinationâ— But we have a God most manifestly gracious to us in his wonderful preservation of his Majesties person and discoveries of their deep and damnable Conspiracies against him We have a King merciful loving and tender of uâ— oven beyond the ordinary extent of humane nature a Council wise Loyal and â—â—cumspect and a people universally â—…testing this Traiterous Association and all the consequences of it And for my own particular let that moment bâ— the last of my life when I comply with our false Authors detestable propositions Trav. Sir I am most truly glad to find you so well satisfied and will hope that the plainness and sincerity which I have used in obeying your commands will qualifie the tedâ—ousness and my want of judgment If there yet remains any thing which you would have me explain to you pray proceed for we have yet a little time left before Dinner Merch. Sir I find one lâ—â—f oâ— two â—urned down let us see what they contain and then I have done In p. 112. speaking of a certain Act of Parliament which it seems he cannot produce concerning answering all petitions before the Parliament could be dismissed he tells us That if there were nothing at all of this nor any record extant concerning it yet he must believe that it is so by the fundamental Law of the Government which must be lame and imperfect without it For it is all one to have no Parliaments at all but when the King pleases and to allow a power in him to dismiss them when he will that is when they refuse to do what he will Here you see Sir he couples granting petitions and a power in the King to dissolve Parliaments together The one he affirms the other he denies What have you to say to this Trav. Nothing Sir only desire you to remark as I suppose you have done all along the prodigious impudence and vanity of our Author who dares advance his own private opinion in matter of Law against several Statutes determining absolutly the contrary the universal consent of all Lawyers and continuâ—l practice of near six hundred years standing Merch. What say you next to the Title of the Duke of Moâ—â—outh Trav. Little our Author himself looks upon it as ridiculous and impossible to be supported Nor do I think that we are much beholden to his honesty or conscience alone for this frank declaration though indeed it is plain and agreeable to reason But he hates the thoughts of a single person and it is no injustice to him to believe from all that he hath said that if Jesus Christ should come upon earth again and pretend to govern according to the present constitution of â—ur Government under a Monarchiâ—â—l form he would find Platâ— Redivivus a Rebellious Spirit and ever the Son of Ambitious Lucifer For the faâ—lts of that unfortunâ—â—â— Duke I shall only say that if he â—aâ— have merit enough to be lamented he hath sence enough to thiâ—k himself the most unhappy of all mankiâ—d and must believe the presâ—rvâ—tion of his life the â—everest punishment Merch. Will you say nothing of the Duke of York Our Author you see speaks a great deal concerning him Something 's look fair but it is easie to perceive his maliâ—â— through the disguâ—â—â— Trav. No Sir his Royal perâ—â—â— and high merit are as much above my needless defence as our Authors little friâ—olous accâ—sation we have only therefore to pray that God would please to continue him long a blessing to these Nations and that we may be no less protected by his Council than defended by his more than Heroick â—oâ—râ—ge Merch. Pray give us then your opinion concerning our â—ure in general Trav. Where there is no disease there can be no â—ure besides I ever held it to be the greatest insolence and vâ—â—ity imaginable to presume to give counsel to the great Counnil of the Nation undestred and unauthorised And for my own part I have no â—…ner of pretence to â—o gâ—eâ—â— an 〈…〉 Have you any thing more Coâ—sin iâ— particular Merch. Sir
a power and the People such ample priviledges that as our form of Government is Monarchy and that as perfect and free as the Sun ever saw so it is eternally secur'd from the corruption of Tyranny Over all this our present Age enjoys a Prince so moderate and so just that his mercy and goodness have been his greatest faults and his Government over us hath been so modest that his greatest Enemies are forc't to consess That his present Majesty never did any Act of arbitrary Power nor toâ—k from any particular Person the benefit of the Law Plato Red. p. 18 19. These considerations have oblig'd all Persons of all Nations whom I have hapned to meet abroad oâ— who have heard or read any thing concerning us to congratulate with me the incomparable Constitution and easiness of the Government under which we live and applying the happiness of Virgil's Husbandman to our own People have often repeated O fortunatos nimium bona si sua norint Anglicolas Now Cousin if you have an inclination to leave all those general blessings besides your particular ones of a noble House a healthful pleasant situation delightful Garden plenty of water fresh springs and many other great conveniences belonging to them then Cousin go abroad and there learn to be wiser Mer. No good Cousin I intend to remain a fool and stay at home to speak plainly if I had as good an Opinion of the present Constitution of our own Government as I have an ill one of those which you have mention'd all those foreign pleasures which the most Frenchefi'd Traveller would make us believe were to be found amongst them should not persuade me to leave Old England not so much as for one single Month. Trav. How dear Cousin Is it possible that there should be any thing in the Constitution of our own Government which can displease a man of your sense and solid Judgment and one whom hitherto I have ever thought very well affected to it Mer. Truly Sir few men love their King and Countrey better than my self I have never forwarded any irregular address to his Majesty nor given my Vote for any notorious Phanatick nor am I look'd upon as such amongst them But I must confess when I reflect upon the differences and animosities between the King and the House of Commons the discontents of a great number of People the Danger of Popery and many other such considerations which I have not at present in my mind I cannot but think there is a fault somewhere and where to lay it more modestly and more reasonably than upon the Constitution of the Government itself is what I cannot find out But we shall not want opportunity to discourse as much as you please of these matters ere we return to London And in the mean time I think it a good hour to break your fast What Drink do you choose for your Mornings draught Trav. Good faith Cousin a mouthful or two of good Air is to me the most acceptable Breakfast in the World Mer. Pray use no ceremonies You know and believe I hope that our friendship as well as near relation gives you the same freedom in my House as you have in your own If therefore you will eat or drink any thing speak what you like best and the Butler shall bring it you immediately But if you be resolv'd to stay till Dinner I will in the mean time carry you to a very pleasant walk and shew you a little Arbour at the end agreeable enough Trav. Most willingly I 'll only put on my Cravat and Perriwig and wait upon you Mer. And I until you are ready will with your leave examine what curious Books you have brought down from beyond Sea Trav. Very few besides such as I carried over for I find London the best Library and England the best University for learned men in Europe Mer. I am glad you think it so Let 's see what have we here Hugonis Grotii de Jure Belli ac Pacis This we have translated into English since you left us Trav. I heard so in Italy but never saw the Book I should have thought it a very difficult undertaking by reason of many expressions so particular to the Civil Law and Latin that they are hard to be rendred into our Language Mer. It is very well done and of good use I can shew it you when ever you please For in my vacant hours I love a little reading especially when I meet with an Author who is universally allow'd to be of a solid Judgment great Learning Trav. You could not have met with one in my opinion who more truly possesses those two qualifications then Grotius did Joseph Scaliger tells us that he was prudens Politicus optimus Groecus Juris-consultus modestus proestantissimus in Epigrammatibus and certainly he deserv'd all or more than he hath said of him Mer. What have you got next The holy Bible in English Nay then Cousin we may hope that besides your English inclinations you have brought over with you also your English Religion For I think the Papists seldom make use of the Bible Trav. Sir I assure you I profess the same Religion which I ever did and hope I ever shall I mean the true Orthodox Protestant Religion of the Church of England as it is by Law establish'd and in my Heart do believe it not only a safe Religion but the most sound and the most pure in its Doctrine as well as in its discipline that is profess'd this day in any part of the whole World Mer. I shall ever agree with you in the Doctrine and not much differ from you in the Discipline But let us proceed What fine gilt Book is this Plato Redivivus 'T is a strong piece Cousin Trav. As strong as Mustard Cousin Children are afraid of it because it bites them by the Nose as they fancy But those of riper years easily discover the fallacy for when examin'd it leaves no impression behind it Mer. Have you read it Sir Trav. Please to open it and you will find whether I have or no. Mer. I perceive indeed that your red Lead Pen hath examin'd it very strictly every leaf looks almost as dismal as a Martyr Trav. Not a Martyr I beseech you but if you will say a Sacrifice I will admit of the Comparison Mer. Why Cousin What distinction do you make between these two Trav. Martyr Sir is generally taken in a good sense and in a good cause but a Sacrifice may be said to be offer'd either to God or to the Devil Mer. Which is as much as to say That you believe the Author hath undertaken an ill cause Trav. Yes Sir and under any good Government besides our own especially in that Republick which he so much admires both himself and his works would have been made publick Sacrifices to Justice and to the quiet of the establish'd Government long before now Mer. But is it not hard that
and let us know why in reason we should not comply with our Authors Popular Government since he tells us that our present state inclines to Popularity Trav. Most willingly But in the first place in all changes of Government we must consider what inconveniences we find under the present constitution and what way we propose to our selves to have them prevented by an alteration otherwise we shall never be able to assign any reason for a change at any time I must therefore desire you to tell me frankly what fault you find grievances according to the cant of our Dissenters in our Monarchy as at present Established Merch. Truly Cousin I have oftentimes thought seriously with my self what those grievances should be And though I was once carried a little away with the stream and cried Liberty and Property and Grievances of the Nation with some others of the wide mouth'd pack yet to deal plainly with you I could never be satisfied from them nor from my own observation what those grievances were in particular Trav. I believe it indeed but however since our Author who is a knowing man assâ—res us that our disease is so desperate that we have no hopes but in a desperate cure Pray let us both though no State Physicians lay our heads together and think with our selves what our sickness may be especially since the beginning of every cure proceeds from the true knowledge of the distemper For my part I do assure you I will assist you what I can in finding out the one and for the other we will leave it to our betters First then I should think that as all diseases shew themselves by some Symptoms upon the natural body so the distempers of the body politick must be also visible and will discover themselves either in our liberties properties or our Religion We will begin with our Liberties and pray Cousin think with your self whether you want any such civil liberty as you could wish for or know to be given under any other Government upon earth Mer. Trouble not your self for that for except I could have somewhat granted particularly to my own person I am so far from wishing our Subjects more liberty in general that I really think we have too much Trav. What mean you by too much Mer. I mean Sir amongst other things that men especially of late have taken to themselves the liberty of reflecting upon or calumniating the Government and our Governours as also to slander one another with so much bitterness and cunning that we are ready to be destroy'd before we know any thing of the matter And yet they keep so within the compass of the Law that the Scrutiny of a Jury can never reach them Nay I have heard say that some are so excellent at it that they will talk you an hour together within a hairs breadth of Sedition and Treason dance upon the low rope with children ty'd to their feet and naked swords in their hands and upon the high rope hanging only by their toes or nape of the neck Trav. Right but I have seen some of them hang with the rope round about their necks and indeed I never wonder'd at it Mer. Yes men who are only impudent bold fellows and have not the skill to cut a feather very often dance themselves into that noose But to be serious really Cousin methinks that calumniating is a most pernicious liberty for in my opinion men should either accuse judicially or not at all In the first case the accused hath we suppose a fair Trial at which he may make his defence and if he prove innocent will be freed But in the latter a man is condemn'd and executed too before he hears of his accusation It is like killing a man with those invisible subtle poisons which work their effect even whilst you are reading the complementing Letter which conveys them your reputation and good name is gone your acquaintance gaze upon you with a different air than formerly you find a coldness in your friends neglect in your relations and disrespect from all And at length the poyson having crept through those with whom you might have occasion to converse you find your self generally condemn'd before you know of what or by whom you were accused and in truth Brinvillers were more tolerable in any Government than these pestilent Calumniators Trav. Indeed Cousin you have spoke a great deal of reason and I am perswaded that the immediate cause of our distractions proceeds from the malicious Calumnies of a few knaves who know they lye dispers'd amongst a great many fools who think they speak truth The Publisher of the divine Machiavels Prince is very just in this particular telling us that in all good Governments Calumniators ought to be restrain'd and punish'd by the strictest severity Qui Rempublicam recte instituere velit ferri nullo modo debent calumniae sed puniendi sunt calumniatores Quodsi hisce rebus in Republica non rectè prospectum sit multa mala patrantur unde seditiones turbae ortum habent And concludes with the story of Furius Camillus who having gain'd a great deal of honour amongst the Romans for the good service which he had done in freeing them from the imminent danger of the Gauls Manlius Capitolinus envying above all his great reputation endeavour'd by all means to lessen his credit But finding the Senate and Nobility firm in their good opinion concerning Camillus he then apply'd himself to the Commonalty who being ever the most susceptible of false impressions were continually plied with the false aspersions of the envious Manlius insinuating amongst other things that the vast sum of money which was supposed to have been paid the Gauls remained yet in a great measure in the possession of Camillus and the Senators who appropriating to their use what was said to have been paid their enemies instead of Governours and Protectors became themselves the greatest enemies the people had by endeavouring to support their own luxury at the expence of the peoples misery Whereas if that mony were again distributed as in justice it ought amongst the poor Citizens it would make their present condition much more easie than otherwise it was like to be in a great many years Interest is the great wheel that moves all the world either to good or evil actions The Commonalty thus iniâ—cens'd by Manlius were now work'd up to that point which he desir'd and ready either for rebellion or any other insolence which their Incendiary should suggest In the mean time the Senate perceiving this growing mischief to obviate any farther disturbance they create a Dictator on purpose to examine into the whole matter and punish the offender where-ever he should find the offence He appoints therefore a day to Manlius who attended with vast multitudes of the credulous Commons is ask'd by the Dictator where or with whom that vast sum of money was lodg'd But Manlius unprovided to answer a question which it seems he
whole Nation when joyn'd with so considerable a part as the Church of England they were both overcome by the Dissenters it was morally impossible Besides they had generally taken the Oath of Allegiance which for ought I can hear they have not broken generally I suppose for if there be any of them who refuse the Oath of Allegeance I look upon them as out of the Kings Protection and little better or full as dangerous as open enemies Nor can I imagine what other Government they could or were ever suppos'd to introduce contrary to that which was then establish'd and which they swore to maintain I am apt enough to believe that they might hope for some ease or exemption from the rigour of the penâ—l Laws which neither you nor I can blame in them if they had desir'd Mer. But though they have taken the Oath of Allegeance yet you see that they will not be prevail'd upon to take the Oath of Supremacy And you know that according to our Law the King is no less head of the Ecclesiastical than of the Civil Government Trav. True Sir But this is as much an argument against the Dissenters as the Papists For it is not a greater crime in them nor prejudice to the State to tolerate men who by the principles of their Religion are taught to submit their Consciences to another Spiritual guide in Spiritual matters as many Soveraign Princes themselves do at this day than those who owning the King to be Supreme head of the Church by their words disown him by their actions that is in not obeying his Laws or Rebelling against him as such Besides it is well known that the general opinion of the Popish Recusants the Laity I mean concerning the Pope's Supremacy hath no ill influence upon our Civil Government which is that which I chiefly intend in this discourse but that they think themselves indispensably oblig'd to defend our Lawful Kings and their Civil Authority not only against all temporal powers whatsoever but even against the Pope himself Mer. This Sir I have heard much controverted and the contrary opinion affirm'd by some of their own Writers that is to say That the Pope may and doth Excommunicate heretick Kings as he calls them By which act their Subjects are no more bound to pay them their obedience nay and can absolve the people from their Oath of Allegeance and impower them to depose their natural and lawful Prince and set up some other in his stead Now Sir this is such a doctrine as makes the Papists uncapable of ever being trusted under any Protestant Government Trav. I confess Sir I have heard that some private men have maintain'd some such erroneous and perniciouâ— Principles and flattering the Pope have endeavoured to raise his power to a much sublimer pitch than ever Christ himself or any of his Apostles pretended it should arrive But Sir as Temporal Princes have been ever usurping upon one another and by most unchristian ways sacrificed the innocent blood of many thousands of men for the promoting their own greatness and satisfying their ambitious designs so these Spiritual Emperours have follow'd too much the ill examples of Temporal Princes And being it may be more solicitous to extend their power than encrease the number of true believers have perverted the good use of St. Peters Keys and have rather opened by them the door of dissention and discord upon earth than the gates of the Heavenly Paradise For some years these holy Fathers exercised their arms against one another and how much blood and horrid troubles the dispute between the Bishop of Rome and Patriarch of Constantinople concerning Primacy hath cost Christendom is sufficiently recorded in History I may add farther that this their contention became at last the ruine of the Greek Empire but hitherto the Temporal Princes enjoy'd their rights and Prerogatives undisturb'd until Hildebrand otherwise called Gregory the seventh arrogated to himself a Soveraign authority over all Christian Kings and Emperours as may be seen at large in the History of Henry the fourth Emperour of Germany who was the first unfortunate example of the Papal usurpation which is confirm'd by a learned Roman Catholick Bishop and one who lived in the Reign of Fred. the first his words are these Lego relego saith he Romanorum Regum Imperatorum gesta nunquam invenio quenquam eorum ante hunc à Romano Pontifice excommunicatum vel regno privatum nisi forte quis pro Anathemate habendum ducat quod Philippus ad breve tempus à Romano Episcopo inter poenitentes collocatus Theodosius à beato Ambrosio propter cruentam caedem à liminibus Ecclesiae sequestratus sit Ottofrising c. 35. After this several encroachments were made upon other Princes and the Popes making use as well of St. Paul's Sword as St. Peter's Keys reduc'd most of them under their obedience and as the same Author expresses it destroy'd them by that very power which they had first receiv'd from the benevolence of the Emperours themselves seeming to imitate therein the Prophet David who first overcame the Philistine by the providence of God and then cut off his head with his own Sword Videntur culpandi Sacerdotes per omnia qui regnum suo gladio quem ipsi à regum habent gratia ferire conentur nisi forte David imitari cogitent qui Philistinum priâ—o virtute Dei stravit postmodum prâ—prio gladio jugulavit Now Sir after the Popes were in possession of these great Prerogatives and had perswaded the people to contribute as well to their own as their Princes slavery by granting them this universal right of power it is no wonder if some of their own Clergy have endeavoured by false arguments to maintain this usurp'd authority But Cousin it is well known that this is now become no more than an old antiquated title and gives him no right over Soveraign Princes at this day It is true those Princes who submitted themselves to the constitutions of the Council of Treâ—t permit the Pope to exercise some Spiritual Jurisdiction in their Kingdoms But it is universally and publickly declared that the Popes have no Civil or Temporal Authority over Soveraign Princes nor can they by their Spiritual power or authoritate clavium Ecclesiae depose any King or absolve any Subject from their Faith Obedience or Oath of Allegeanâ—e Mer. Can you give an instance of 〈…〉 made by any Popish Kings and consented to by the Roman Clergy Trav. Yes Sir and that so fully that there can remain no scruple or difficulty and it is by the most Christian King of France and eldest son of the Roman Church and a severe persecutor of the Protestant Religion I will give you the words of the Declaration it self as far as it concerns this particular that you may the better judge your self of the truth It is Declared by the Gallick Church Primum beato Petro ejusque successoribus Christi Vicariis ipsique
Ecclesiae rerum spiritualium ad aeternam salutem pertinentium non autem civilium temporalium à Deo traditam potestatem c. Reges ergo Principes in temporalibus nulli Ecclesiasticae potestati Dei ordinatione subjici neque authoritate clavium Ecclesiae directe vel indirecte deponi aut illorum subditos eximi à side atque obedientia ac praestito fidelitatis Sacramento solvi posse Hancque sententiam publicâ— tranquillitati necessariam nec minus Ecclesiae quam Imperio utilem â—t verbo Dei patrum traditioni Sanctorum exemplis consonam omnino retinendam Which is thus Englished It is Declared First that the Power of Spiritual things and such as concern eternal Salvation but not of Civil or Temporal affairs was delivered by God to the blessed Peter and his Successors Christ's Vicars and to the Church it self c. Kings therefore and Princes in Temporal affairs are not Subjected by the appointment of God to any Ecclesiastical power nor can they be directly or indirectly depos'd by the authority of the Keys of the Church nor can their Subjects be freed or absolv'd from their Faith and Obedience and their Oath of Fidelity And let this Sentence necessary to the publick tranquillity nor less profitable for the Church than State be irrevocable as agreeing with the Word of God the Tradition of Fathers and the Examples of the Saints or holy men This Sir is the first article in the Declaration of the French Clergy which is asserted registred and confirmed by the whole Vniversity of Paris the Sorâ—one and Faculties des Droits Civil and Canon as may be seen fully in the Edit du Roy sur la Declaration faitte par le Clergie de France de ces sentimens touchant la puissance Ecclesiastique and published this present year 1683. Now Sir in my opinion this so solemn and national declaration together with the concurrence and constant profession of all the English Roman Catholicks that I have met with doth sure by much overbalance the writings of any private men or Jesuits whatsoever And such Principles although they be most erroneous and most damnable yet when we come to examine the case impartially between the very Jesuits and our Dissenters even as it relates to these most horrid positions we shall find these Dissenters have so far outgone the Jesuits themselves in the Doctrine of Deposing Heretick Princes that is to say Princes who differ from the Church of Rome in Fundamentals or Speculative Doctrines which they believe absolutely necessary to Salvation that they have dared to maintain publickly the Doctrine of Deposing even Protestant Princes and their own natural and most lawful Soveraigns and absolving their Subjects from their Oaths of Allegeance and this not for any difference in the Doctrinal part which is absolutely necessary to Salvation but for Discipline only and Church Government which right of Government is so inherent to the Imperial Crown of England that it makes up and is one of the constituent parts of it And that these are the very principles of our Dissenters I refer you for ample satisfaction to their own very words where and when delivered as they have been Collected and Published by the care and diligence of the most worthy Mr. L'Estrange in his Dissenters Sayings Now when our Dissenters shall think fit to make so Solemn and Publick a Declaration as the Papists have done at Paris against the Doctrine of Deposing Kings and absolving Subjects as is before recited I shall be as ready to do the Dissenters justice in that particular as I have now done to the Papists Merch. Sir I perceive you are a very good advocate for the Papists and indeed I must needs confess that I am abundantly satisfied with those arguments which you have produced in their favour and do heartily wish they could as well comply with the Spiritual as I am perswaded they will live peaceably and quietly under the Civil Government And as to the present question of Toleration between the Papists and the Dissenters I perceive that the force of your argument consists in this that the Dissenters besides their more than Jesuitical principles most pernicious to Civil Government as hath been now declared that they I say agreeing with the Church of England in the Doctrine differ chiefly concerning Government to which in conscience they ought and confess they may submit but the Papists disagreeing in the Doctrine and speculative points which they believe absolutely necessary to Salvation cannot possibly comply with us without the apparent danger of eternal damnation So having a more justifiable pretence to differ from us in the Spiritual Government only than the Dissenters in either the Ecclesiastical or Temporal they ought the rather of the two to be tolerated Truly the reason of this is very obvious in the Oeconomy of our families For if a Master should command two of his Sons or Servants to go for example half a score miles upon earnest business and the one should excuse himself for this reason that he is certainly assured or believes positively and unfeignedly that a company of Robbers or a Lion is in the way which answers to Damnation in the case of the Papists and that he shall be murdered or devoured that the other Son or Servant having no such fears upon him doth nevertheless upon some much more slight and frivolous pretence obstinately refuse to obey the Master desiring also that hence forward the Master would go upon his own errands himself which agrees with the condescension that the Dissenters require from the Government I think indeed in this case though both be guilty of disobedience yet the former is much more excusable and tolerable than the latter and that the obstinate Servant is much more unreasonable and dangerous in the family than the other I can say nothing against this but only wish that the one had less fear and the other more duty and respect Having then Sir given me full satisfaction concerning these three main points viz our Liberties Properties and Religion under our present Government in which having found no faults negatively we ought not to desire any change or innovation Yet nevertheless be pleased to let me know affirmatively why a Common-wealth might not be rationally promoted and set up in this present troublesome conjuncture of our affairs Trav. Let us then agree that our Author designs a Commonwealth as I have already prov'd from his own mouth Besides the constitution of his mix'd Government will inevitably bring it upon us or return us again to a Monarchy where we are For though he doth not tell us plainly that he designs totally to remove the King and Royal family yet so many inconveniences will happen that as it may be in the beginning of the late Traiterous Association all the Traitors might not at first resolve upon the barbarous murder of his Majesty and Royal Highness yet when they were once engag'd in the one they found the other