Selected quad for the lemma: religion_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
religion_n	church_n	discipline_n	government_n	3,314	5	6.9877	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A42767	A sermon preached before the right honourable the House of Lords in the Abbey Church at Westminster, upon the 27th of August, 1645 being the day appointed for solemne and publique humiliation : whereunto is added a brotherly examination of some passages of Mr. Colemans late printed sermon upon Job 11.20, in which he hath endeavoured to strike at the root of all church-government / by George Gillespie, minister at Edenburgh.	Gillespie, George, 1613-1648.	1646 (1646)	Wing G759; ESTC R30413	43,318	49

of evils and mischiefs which Presbyteriall Government hath brought upon other reformed Churches Well the Reverend Brother hath not done but he proceedeth thus I●n as the King of Sodomes speech to Abraham Give me the persons ta●eth ● the goods So say I Give us Doctrine take you the Government as 〈◊〉 said Right Honourab c give me leave to make this request in the behalf of the Ministery give us two things and we shall do well 1 Give us earning And 2 Give us a competency This cals to ●inde a Story which Clemens Alexandrinus tells us When one had painted Helena with much gold Apelles looking upon it Friend saith he when you could not make her fair you have made her rich Learning and competency do inrich The Jesuites have enough of both but that which maketh a visible Ministeriall Church to be beautifull as Tirzah comely as Jerusalem That which maketh fair the outward face of a Church is Government and Discipline the removing of scandals the preserving of the Ordinances from pollution He had spoken more for the honour of God and for the power of godlinesse if he had said this in the behalf of the Ministery It were better for us to want competency and helps to learning then to partake with other mens sins by admitting the scandalous and prophane to the Lords Table his way which he adviseth will perhaps get ●s an able Ministery and procure us honour enough as he speaketh but sure it can neither preserve the purity nor advance the power of Religion because it putteth no black mark upon prophanesse and scandall in Church Members more then in any others The King of Sodoms Speech cannot serve his turn except it be turned over and then it will serve him as just as any thing thus Give us the goods take you the persons or the souls as the He●rew and the Chaldee hath it Give us a competency saith he here he asketh the goods Take you the Government here he quitteth the persons or souls to be governed onely by the civill power however as at that time Abraham would take nothing that was not his own insomuch as he answered the King of Sodome I will not take from a thred even to a shoe latchet and I will not take any thing that is thine So this Parliament I trust shall be so counselled and guided of the Lord that they will leave to the Church what is the Churches or rather to Christ what is Christs And as A●raham had lift up his hand to the most high God to doe that so have the Honourable Houses with hands lifted up to the most high God promised to do this And now seeing I have touched upon the Covenant I wish the Reverend Brother may seriously consider whether he hath not violated the Oath of God in advising the Parliament to lay no burden of Government upon Church Officers but to take the Government of the Church wholly into their own hands In the first Article of the solemn League and Covenant there is thrice mention made of the Government of the Church and namely That we shall indeavour the Reformation of Religion in the Kingdoms of England and Ireland in Doctrine Worship Discipline and Government according to the Word of God and the example of the best reformed Churches Where observe 1. The extirpation of church-Church-Government is not the Reformation of it The second Article is indeed of things to be extirpated but this of things to be preserved and reformed Therfore as by the Covenant Prelacy was not to be reformed but to be abolished so by the same Covenant Church Government was not to be abolished but to be reformed 2. church-Church-Government is mentioned in the Covenant as a Spirituall not a Civill thing The matters of Religion are put together Doctrine Worship Discipline and Government The Priviledges of Parliament come after in the third Article 3. That Clause according to the Word of God implieth that the Word of God holdeth forth such light unto us as may guide and direct us in the Reformation of Church-Government 4. And will the Brother say that the example of the best reformed Churches leadeth us his way that is To have no Church-Government at all distinct from the Civil Government And so much concerning his third Rule The fourth was this A Christian Magistrate as a Christian Magistrate is a Governor in the Church And who denieth this The Question is Whether there ought to be no other Government in the Church beside that of the Christian Magistrate That which he driveth at is That the Christian Magistrate should leave no power of Spirituall Censures to the Elderships He would have the Magistrate to do like the rich man in the Parable who had exceeding many Flocks and Herds and yet did take away the little ewe-lamb from the poor man who had nothing save that The Brother saith Of other Governments besides Magistracie I finde no institution of them I d● Rom. 13.1 2. I am sor●y he sought no better else he had found more Subjection and obedience is commanded as due not onely to Civil but to Spirituall Governors to those that are over us in the Lord 1 Thes. 5.12 So 1 Tim. 5.17 Let the Elders that ru●e well be counted worthy of double honour Heb. 13.7 Remember them which have the rule over you who have spoken to you the Word of God Vers. 17. Obey them that have the rule over you and submit your selves for they watch for your souls And what understandeth he by him that ruleth R●m 12.8 If the judgement of Gua●ther and Bullinger have any weight with him as I suppose it hath they do not there exclude but take in under that word the ruling Officers of the Church But now in the close let the Reverend Brother take heed he hath not split upon a Rock and taken from the Magistrate more then he hath given him He saith Christian Magistrates are to manage their Office under Christ and for Christ Christ hath placed governments in his Church 1 Cor. 12.28 c. I finde all Government given to Christ and to Christ as Mediator I desire all to consider it Eph. 1.3 last vers. and Christ as Head of these given to the Church If this be good Divinity then I am sure it will be the hardest task which ever he took in hand to uphold and assert the Authority either of Pagan or Christian Magistrates First he lets the Pagan or Infidel Magistrate fall to the ground as an Usurper who hath no just title to reign because all Government is given to Christ and to him as Mediator But which way was the Authority of Government derived from Christ and from him as Mediator to a Pagan Prince or Emperour Next he will make it to fare little better with the Christian Magistrate For if the Christian Magistrate be the Vice-gerent of Christ and of Christ as Mediator and if he be to manage his office under and for Christ then the

{non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} the heritage of the Lord as well as the Ministers Thus much by the way of that distinction of names And for the thing it self to object an innate enmity between the Ministers of the Gospel and those that are not Ministers is no lesse then a dishonouring and aspersing of the Christian Religion To return you see his words tend to the taking away of all church-Church-Government out of the hands of Church-Officers Now may we know his reasons He fetcheth the ground of an Argument out of his own heart I have a heart faith he that knews better how to be governed then govern I wish his words might hold true in a sence of plyablenesse and yeelding to Government How he knows to govern I know not but it should seem in this particular he knows not how to be governed For after both Houses of Parliament have concluded That many particular Congregations shall be under one Presbyteriall Government he still acknowledgeth no such thing as Presbyteriall Government I dare be bold to say He is the first Divine in all the Christian world that ever advised a State to give no government to Church-Officers after the State had resolved to establish Presbyterian Government But let us take the strength of his Argument as he pretendeth it He means not of an humble p●iablenesse and subjection for that should ease him from his fear of an ambitious ensnarement and so were contrary to his intention but of a sinfull infirmity and ambition in the heart which makes it fitter for him and others to be kept under the yoke then to govern And thus his Argumentation runs Might I measure others by my self and I know not why I may not God fashions mens hearts alike and as in water face answers face so the heart of man to man I ingeniously professe I have a heart that knows better how to be governed then govern I fear an ambitious ensnarement and I have cause I see what raised Prelacy and Papacy to such a height c. The two Scriptures will not prove what he would The first of them Psal. 33.15 He fashioneth their hearts alike gives him no ground at all except it be the homonomy of the English word alike which in this place noteth nothing else but {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} all mens hearts are alike in this that God fashioneth them all and therefore knoweth them all aeque or alike that is the scope of the place The Hebrew Jachad is used in the same sence Ezra 4.3 We our selves together will build they mean not they will all build in the like fashion or in the same manner but that they will build all of them together one as well as another So Psal. 2.2 The rulers take counsell together Jer. 46.12 they are fallen both together The other place Prov. 27.19 if you take it word by word as it is in the Hebrew is thus As in water faces to faces so the heart of man to man Our Translators adde the word answereth but the Hebrew will suffer the negative reading As in waters faces answer not to faces The Septuagints read As faces are not like faces so neither are the hearts of men alike The Chaldee paraphrase thus As waters and as countenances which are not like one another so the heart of the sons of men are not alike Thus doth Master Cartwright in his judicious Commentary give the sense As in the water face doth not answer fully to face but in some sort so there may be a conjecture but no certain knowledge of the heart of man But let the Text be read affirmatively not negatively what shall be the sence Some take it thus A mans heart may be someway seen in his countenance as a face in the water Others thus As a face in the water is various and changeable to him that looketh upon it so is the heart of man inconstant to a friend that trusteth in him Others thus As a man seeth his own face in the water so he may see himself in his own heart or conscience Others thus As face answereth face in the water so he that looketh for a friendly affection from others must shew it in himself It will never be proved that any suchthing is intended in that place as may warrant this argumentation There is such a particular corruption in one mans heart for instance Ambition which makes him unfit to be trusted with Government therefore the same corruption is in all other mens hearts even as the face in the water answereth the face out of the water so just that there is not a spot or blemish in the one but it is in the other I am sure Pan taught us not so when he said In lowlinesse of minde let each esteeme other better then themselves Phil. 2.3 Nay the Brother himself ha●h taken off the edge of his own Argument if it had any in his Epistle printed before his Sermon where speaking of his Brethren from whose judgement he dissenteth in point of Government he hath these words Whose wisdom and humility I speak it confidently may safely be trusted with as large a share of Government as they themselves desire Well but suppose now the same corruption to be in other mens hearts that they are in great danger of an ambitious insnarement if they be trusted with Government Is this corruption onely in the hearts of Ministers or is it in the hearts of all other men I suppose he will say in all mens hearts and then his Argument will conclude against all civill Government Last of all admit that there be just fears of abusing the Power and Government Ecclesiasticall let the persons to be intrusted with it be examined and the power it self bounded according to the strictest rules of Christ Let abuses be prevented reformed corrected The abuse cannot take away the use where the thing it self is necessary Why might he not have satisfied himself without speaking against the thing it self Once indeed he seemeth to recool and faith Onely I would have it so bounded that it might be said Hitherto shalt thou come and here shalt thou stay thy proud waves yet by and by he passeth his own bounds and totally renounceth the Government to the civill Power which I shall speak to anon But I must first ask Whence is this fear of the proud swelling waves of Presbyteriall Government where have they done hurt Was it upon the coast of France or upon the coast of Holland or upon the coast of Scotland or where was it Or was the dashing upon Terra in cognita He that would forewarn men to beware of Presbyteriall usurpations for so the Brother speaking to the present Controversie about Church-Government must be apprehended and to make good what he ●aith fals upon the stories of Pope Paul the 5. and of the Bishop of Canterbury is not a little wide from the mark I should have expected some examples