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A92525 The ansvver of the Commissioners of the kingdome of Scotland, to both Houses of Parliament, upon the new propositions of peace, and the foure bills to be sent to his Majestie. Scotland. Parliament. 1647 (1647) Wing S1180; Thomason E421_2; ESTC R203503 26,529 32

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Sectaries and their families but gives a full liberty to set up their professions in any fit and convenient places that so Scandals Heresies Schismes and new Religions may grow in their kinds and also multiply in the number of Professours and Disciples as if there were not enough already 7. Though it seemeth that a provision is made that this indulgence shall not extend to the toleration of Antitrinitarians Arrians and Antiscripturists yet there is no more expressed but that this indulgence shall not extend to tolerate the Printing Publishing or Preaching such blasphemies and errours as they do maintain against God the Holy Trinity and the Scriptures They are not made lyable to any penalty and suppose penalties were imposed upon them for Printing Publishing or Preaching those errours yet they are by this Proposition left to a full liberty to maintain them in private to reason and dispute that there is no God that Christ is but an Impostor that there is no such thing as the Holy Ghost that the Scriptures are but like other writings blaspheming at their pleasure and seducing others to their opinions in secret All which and much more according to this Proposition may not be questioned and so in reality though not in pretext they shall be tolerated as well as others 8. Al protane and wicked persons are left at liberty by this toleration to doe what they please For they are not obliged to be subject to any Discipline or Government and so neither the duties of the first nor second table of the Law of God shall be observed but all sort of impiety and works of darknesse shall abound and such as hate the sincere worship of God in the Church may have the most unlawfull and wicked meetings elsewhere under a profession of religious exercises or Ordinances We might adde more exceptions against this Proposition But these we trust may suffice to make any that is but a little indued with the light of the Gospell and hath any love to the truth for to detest and abhorre such a toleration And now we desire the Houses of Parliament to remember their Remonstrance of the State of the Kingdome of the 15 of December 1642. where they resent it as a great injury that any should infuse into the people that they meane to leave every man to his own judgement and fancy for the service and worship of God and do declare that it is farre from their purpose and desire to let loose the golden reynes of Discipline and Government in the Church to leave private persons or particular Congregations to take up what kinde of divine service they please and hold it requisite that there should be throughout the whole Realme a conformity to that Order which the Laws enjoyne according to the word of God How consonant this toleration is to that Declaration we leave it to the Houses of Parliament and all wise men to consider and whether the danger of the true reformed Religion in these Kingdomes be not greater now then before the taking of the Covenant yea or since Christian Religion came first into this Island when toleration of all Religions the name of Popery only excepted is desired by the Houses of Parliament to be established by Law and the very Principles and Fundamentals of faith which under Prelacy yea under Popery it selfe were generally received as uncontroverted are now by many Sectaries of this time either oppugned or called in question There are divers other passages in the Declarations and Ordinances of both Houses to the same purpose but here we shall only mention one or two In particular we would have the Houses call to minde their Declaration and answer to the Lords of his Majesties Secret Counsell of Scotland and the generall Assembly of the Church of that Kingdome in the yeare 1642. where besides other expressions they use these words We acknowledge it an act of love to us and Wisdome for the good of both Churches for which we are thankefull both to God and them that our Brethren of Scotland have bestowed their serious thoughts and earnest desires for Vnity of Religion that in all his Majesties Dominions there might be one confession of faith one Directory for worship one publick Catechisme and one forme of Church Government And although it will hardly be obtained punctually and exactly unlesse some way might be found for a mutuall communication and conjunction of Counsell and debate in frameing that one forme yet both intending the same and proceeding by the same rule of Gods word and guided by the same Spirit we hope by Gods assistance to be so directed that we may cast out whatsoever is offensive to God or justly displeasing to any neighbour Church And so farre agree with our Brethren of Scotland and other reformed Churches in all substantiall parts of Doctrine Worship and Discipline that both we and they may enjoy those advantages and conveniences which are mentioned by them in this their answer In the more strict Vnion of both Kingdomes more safe easy and comfortable Government of his Majesty and both to himselfe and co●le more free communion in all holy exercises and dutyes of worship more constant security of Religion against the bloody practises of Papists and deceitfull errours of other Sectaries And having there made known their resolution to take away the Government by Bishops they desire some godly and learned Divines of that Church to bee sent to the Assembly of Divines here whereby an uniformity in form of Church Government may bee obtayned and one Confession of Faith one Directory and one Catechism may be setled in all the three Kingdomes Which desire was afterwards renewed to their Commissioners sent to Scotland and in end the mutuall and joynt desires of both Kingdomes were crowned with a solemne League and Covenant as for other ends so for endeavouring the nearest conjunction and uniformity in al these and for extirpation of Heresy and Schisme These foure yeares past the labours of many learned and godly Divines of both Kingdomes thereunto appointed have been spent in framing a Directory for worship which was long since approved and received in both Kingdomes a Confession of Faith a form of Church Government and Catechising all which have been presented to both Houses and some progresse was made therein toward the establishing of them till of late they were laid aside The Houses not many months since did appoint a solemn Fast and day of Humiliation to be kept throughout the whole kingdome because of the growth of Heresies Blasphemies and Schism The words of the Ordinance are these We the Lords and Commons assembled in the Parliament of England having entred into a solemn Covenant to endeavour sincerely really and constantly the reformation of Religion in Doctrine Discipline and Worship And the extirpation of Popery superstation heresie schisme prophanesse and whatsoever shall be found contrary to sound doctrine and the power of godlinesse And having found the presence of God wonderfully assisting us
Scotland and left no Forces in this Kingdome to oppose the Parliament that the Army here should have been instantly disbanded And could never have expected that the Kings Majesty to whom the Parliaments of both Kingdomes were to make their addresses for a safe and well-grounded peace should have been taken away by the Army against his will and still kept in their power to be carryed whether they please or forced to flye for safety If Scotland had apprehended that the least injury or violence would have been committed against his Majesties Royall Person or Monarchicall Government Nay if they had not received assurance from the Houses to the contrary certainly all the threatnings or allurements in the world could never have perswaded them to have parted with the King till all Armies had been disbanded and the peace of the Kingdomes setled It was our brotherly confidence in the Houses who are our fellow Subjects and the assurance we had from them that made us leave the King with them And their care of him and duty to him ought to be such as neither his Majesty nor we have cause to repent it And this we could not but declare to assert the truth and vindicate the honour and reputation of our Nation for out Loyalty hath ever been is and shall be dearer unto us then our lives and fortunes And the candor and integrity of all our Actions is a sufficient confutation of all the calumnyes and aspersions which malice or envie can forge against us We finde also these Propositions omitted viz. the Proposition for confirming the Ordinances concerning the calling and sitting of the Assembly of Divines the Proposition for Reformation of Religion in England and Ireland according to the Covenant And the Proposition for setling Unity and Uniformity in matters of Religion between the Churches of God in both Kingdomes according to the Covenant In place of all which we finde nothing but a meer shadow of Presbyteriall Government an externall Form of Discipline without life or power and a liberty granted for all sorts of Service and Worship of God and for the Exercise of all such Religious Duties and Ordinances as every person shall please and his own erroneous conscience shall dictate unto him for there is no other rule prescribed which opens a doore to Atheism to all Religions and to that which by abuse of the name is called liberty of conscience being indeed liberty of errour scandall schism heresy dishonouring God opposing the truth hindering Reformation and seducing others So in place of Uniformity in Religion which by Covenant both Kingdomes have sworn to endeavour there is here desired to be setled a vast difformity or multi-formity of Heresies and Sects which if the Lord in his mercy shall not prevent may produce the ruine of Religion in both Kingdomes which we have just reason to feare as for other reasons so when we consider the Declaration of the Houses of Parliament speaking of the design of the Popish and Prelaticall Faction to alter Religion in this Island of whom they say first Page 492. collection of Declar they resolved to impose a Popish Service-Book upon Scotland for well they know the same fate attended both Kingdoms and Religion could not be altered in the one without the other And in Answer to the Scots Declaration pag. 601. Whensoever the design to root out Religion shall be perfected in either Nation it will easily be accomplished in the other Religion being the band and foundation of the safety and happinesse of both And in August 1643. the English Commissioners declare to the Kingdome of Scotland that they are commanded by their instructions to put their brethren of Scotland in minde that the Popish and Prelaticall Faction that began with them about the yeare 1638 and 1639 and then intended to make way to the ruine of the Kingdome of England by theirs have not abated any part of their malice toward the Nation and Church of Scotland nor at all departed from their design of corrupting and altering Religion through the whole Island though they have inverted the manner of their proceeding conceiving now that they have an easier way to destroy them if they may first prevaile over the Parliament and Kingdome of England In which respect it is the desire of both Houses that the two Nations may be strictly Vnited c. And in another paper it is declared that what corruptions take root in the Church and Kingdome of England English Commissioners August 16●3 will quickly spread their venome and infection into the Neighbour Church of Scotland Wherefore we cannot dissent from this Proposition And according to the trust reposed in us represent our just exceptions against it And first of all we think it very strange That the Houses of Parliament should desire an Act of Parliament to bee made for establishing Presbyterian Government and in the very same Proposition desire that it may bee Enacted that none shall obey that Act of Parliament but such as shall please to doe it 2. We observe that however it is pretended that Presbyterian Government is desired to be established as the Government of the Church of England yet it is only in effect a Liberty granted to all such as of their own accord will joyn in Presbyteriall Government and so amounts to no more then a Toleration of it 3. That this toleration of Presbyterian Government is many wayes limited as in the time for which it is to endure being only to the end of the next Session of Parliament after the end of this present Session which perhaps may be not above six Moneths And the Ministers and Elders are appointed by Ordinance of Parliament to exclude from the Sacrament only such Persons as the Houses have thought fit and no others though it be against their consciences so to do They are bounded with severall restrictions in their Meetings and Assemblyes and are not allowed the use and exercise of all the Ordinances appointed by the Word of God so as Liberty of Conscience is denied to them and granted to others For 4. An unlimited toleration for the time of endurance matter of worship and exercise of all Ordinances is expresly granted to all the Sectaries of the time whether they be Anabaptists Antinomians Arminians Familists Erastians Brownists Separatists Libertines or Independents yea it extends to those Nullifidians the Seekers to the new Sect of Shakers and divers others By all which the very foundation of Church and State is shaken and neare to be overthrown 5. The toleration here desired to be established is of that capacity and latitude as it may admit of many vile and grosse errours which have been condemned and cast out of the Church in former times and may be revived in England as if errours and heresies were of so precious a nature that men should be encouraged by Law to enquire after them and invited to maintaine them 6. This toleration is not only to the persons of those
the King from His Government And to be a burthen to the Subjects since the Warre is ended but that they may have due satisfaction of their Arreares and be disbanded without which there can be no reall nor lasting Peace That all Armies being disbanded here speedy reliefe may be sent to Ireland That an Act of Oblivion which is the bond of Peace be agreed upon to be past in the Parliaments of both Kingdomes That the King be restored to his Rights and Revenues and particularly that the Crowne be not excluded from the power of making Lawes which is as essentiall to Kings as to governe by Lawes and sway the Scepter Nor from the power of the Militia without which they can neither protect their Subjects oppose their and the Kingdomes enemies nor keep friendship with their Allyes That there be a conclusion added to the Propositions promising our reall endeavours as was done in the Propositions Treated upon at Vxbridge that his Majesty may live in the splendor and glory of his Royall Progenitors as beseemeth His Royall place and Dignity That so all differences and troubles may end in mutuall confidence and rejoycing the King may enjoy the comfort of His Royall Consort and Children with other contentments And wee after so great distractions and long continued sufferings may reap the blessed fruits of Truth and Peace under his Government And as it is very far from our thoughts and intentions in expressing our Differences upon the Propositions to provoke or give offence so we trust that our freedome in discharge of the trust committed to us proceeding from our zeale to Religion Loyalty to the King and love to Peace shall receive a co●di● Interpretation from the Honourable Houses And that they 〈◊〉 in their wisedome not slight the desires of a Kingdome ●ho 〈◊〉 the time of Englands greatest danger esteemed no 〈◊〉 too hard for their Assistance And are now seeking nothing but the performance of the mutuall Obligements Declarations and Treaties betweene the two Kingdomes And to prevent the dangers which may cause upon the 〈◊〉 and 〈…〉 to solemne engagements The Houses of Parliament have frequ●ntly professed that the chiefe end of their Warres was the Re●orma●ion and establishment of Religion according to the Covenant And they have often Promised and Declared to the King and to all the World n●t without ●l●ep ●●esta●●● of the Name of God that no trouble or successe should ever make them wrong or diminish the power of the Crowne which were the chiefe mo●●●es and Arguments that indured Scotland to engage with them in this Warre Let therefore that be given to God which is Gods and to Caesar what is Caesars whereby it may be evident that you are not unmindfull of the solemne Vowes you made to God in the time of distresse for Reformation of Religion and it may also really appeare that 〈◊〉 advantages and power which 〈◊〉 put into your hands hath not 〈…〉 your Loyalty to the King And according to our many professions and neare 〈…〉 ●●ally and co●●●●●ly che●ish and str●ng then the V●ion between the two Kingdomes under his Majesty by all the Pledges of reciprocall kindnesse 〈◊〉 so Religion and Righteousnesse may flourish and both Kingdomes languishing under the 〈…〉 and 〈◊〉 of an naturall Warre may live in 〈◊〉 pl●nty By Command of the Commissioners for the Parliament of Scotland IO. CHEIS●●● WEE 〈…〉 the In●●r●ctions communica●●●● unto 〈…〉 in the 〈◊〉 wherein the 〈…〉 the King care 〈◊〉 present 〈◊〉 the 〈…〉 〈…〉 of 〈…〉 of 〈…〉 of Parliament 〈…〉 Procla 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈…〉 the Parliament to bee 〈…〉 or 〈…〉 to bee made and a new Proposition for the adjournments of both Houses To which Bills they are commanded to desire His Majesties assent by His Letters Patents under the great Seal of England and not otherwise And after His Majesties assent to those Bils the Houses of Parliament will send a Committee of both Houses to Treate with His Majesty in the Isle of Wight upon the remainder of the new Propositions To all which wee answer That although there be nothing which we more passionately desire then a happy Peace and good agreement with the King yet we cannot agree to this way of desiring His Majestyes assent to those four Bills before any Treaty with His Majesty upon other Propositions it being in our judgment neither for the good of Religion the King nor Kingdomes And first concerning Religion we say that in January 1645. it was agreed on betwixt the Houses of Parliament and us before the Treaty at Vxbridge That the Propositions concerning Religion the Militia and Ireland shall bee treated upon alte●●s vicibus beginning first with the Proposition of Religion and that as it is of most excellency so it is to bee sought after and finally agreed upon in the fi st place before any finall agreement the 〈◊〉 upon any of the other Propositions Wee are very sure the Houses had far greater reason at that time to looke to their security and to desire the Proposition for setling the Militia to be first agreed on when the King had an Army in the field then now when they have a strong Army and he has none at all And upon the other part the danger to Religion is now much greater them a● any time before when men in Armes are demanding a toleration of all sorts of Religions Popery excepted And if first of all it should be agreed on that the continuance of such an Army shall be setled by Law wee desire it may be equally considered what good can be expected from a treaty upon 〈◊〉 or what hopes shall remaine of setling it according to the Covenant wherefore we cannot consent to the sending any Propositions or 〈…〉 a se●●rity for ●●●ling Peace without T●●th which hath been acknowledged both by His Majesty and the 〈◊〉 all former Treaties or Messages to bee the best 〈◊〉 most 〈◊〉 foundation of a lasting Peace And we must still presse that there may be a preference of those desires which are for setling 〈◊〉 and the Goverment of the Church the want 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 of the Sects and Heresies which doe multiply and in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 daily to the disturbance of all Order and Peace both in Church and State As this way is not for the good of Religion so it cannot in reason be conceived that it shall bee acceptable to the King for how can it bee expected that he will grant those things for a personall Treaty whereof the issue is uncertain which he hath ever hitherto denyed even to obtaine a Peace especially when after all his Majesties earnest desires hee cannot bee admitted to come to London nor upon any tearms to have a Treaty here in respect the Houses conceive that the Kings presence with them at this time stands not with the safety and security of the Parliament and kingdome but that the Kings assent to the four Bills must be by Commission and thereafter a Treaty upon the rest of