the bodie which the faithfull receiue in the Eucharist a bodie gathered of many cornes without bloud and bone without lim without soule But the reformers professe to receiue no such bodie in the Sacrament but the verie same bodie which sitteth on the right hād of God in heauē indued with all the properties and dimensions of a true bodie though by faith onelie and so there being such small affinitie betweene both the words and sense of the foresaid place and the reformers doctrine in this point neither S. Humfrey nor those from whom he receiued it had any reason to produce it as a testimonie wherebie to proue their Church to haue bene visiblie extant and their faith publikelie professed before the daies of Luther And from hence we may further deduce how vaine a flourish the knight maketh in the end of his 97. page were by way of conclusion he affirmes that the most substantiall points of his religion were visiblie knowne and generallie published not in pryuate corners but in publike libraries not in obscure assemblyes But in open Churches and generall congregations of our owne countrye in the darkest ages long before Luthers dayes All which deduction is most friuolous and idle first for that suppose it were most true and certaine that the denyall of the reall presence were contained in the foresaid writings the contrarie to which I haue made most manifest yet is it a most vaine and false brag of the knight to saye that therefore the most substantiall points of his religion were visiblie knowne and generallie professed in his countrie longe before the dayes of Luther it being manifest that with all the Arethmatik he can vse The deniall of the reall presence and transubstantiation confessed by Sir H. to be the most substantiall points of his religion the whole some of substantiall points of his religion falselie pretended to be sounde by him in the foresaide epistles and homilie doe not passe the number of two whereas yet on the contrarie ther are truelie and vnfainedlie aboue twise as manie against him and for the Romanists as masse prayers in Latin water mixed to the wine in the chalis offering of the same sacrifice the pronouncing of Agnus Dei in the masse the signe of the Crosse As also because there are no certaine premisses out of which anie such illation of the knights can be collected but the quite contrarie as hath beene alreadie showed and so for Sir Humfrey to say the most substantiall points of his faith haue beene generallie published not in priuate corners but in publike libraries before the dayes of Luther grounding his saying onelie vpon the foresaid writings is most absurde and voyde of truth To omit that if as the knight affirmes there is a copie of the foresaid Epistle mangled in the foresaid librarie a man may doubt how the pretēsiue reformers could come by anie more true manuscript then that razed copie out of which they could by comparing the one with the other discouer that that which was so blotted defaced did containe anie doctrine contrarie to the reall presense or transubstantiation or agreeing with their owne copies now of late translated in to English and printed by them And also we may further suspect that the copie which Sir Humfrey mentioneth as mangled and razed is the onelie true originall and that the transsumpts of Alfrickes sermon now published in English are altered and changed from the puritie of their first copies all which I leaue to the iudgement of the indifferent reader and my owne further examen of the matter as opportunitie shall serue And yet besides this I cannot conceiue how this businesse hangs together to wit that Sir Humfrey produces the foresaid homilie against transubstantiation and yet the same Sir Humfrey page 98. affirmes that they I knowe not who haue in that same homilie suggested transubstantiation by two faigned miracles Now if in that homilie there be two miracles to proue transubstantiation as indeed there bee howe can it then be truly produced by the knight against the same So that here must of necessitie be some iuggling in the matter And more for my parte I cannot possible imagin howe that ould mustie copie of the homilie being in the saxon language could make two such monsterous iumpes as first to leape out of ould saxon in to English and then out of exiter into Oxon euen iuste at that present time when M. Fox had need of them for the fornishing of his moulie monumēts Certainelie I hould this for one of the greatest miracles that anie of the reformed brothers euer committed Besides this in my opinion it sauoures rancke of forgerie to say that the wordes razed in the Latin copie of Alfricks Epistle to Wolstan Archbishop of yorke were supplied by the saxon copie of Exiter as some of our aduersaries doe affirme not-obstanding others say they had the supplie from worcester And I demaunde further whether it is not much more probable that the sentence which he mentioneth if anie such there were in that Epistle was neuer taken away in the Latin but rather added by Swinglius Oecolampadius or Bucer or some other greater Doctour of that potatorie Confraternitie More D. Iames saith that the Latin Epistle so razed is intituled De consuetudine monachorum and yet the same Doctour out of Fox relates it to be against the bodilie presence Quibus speramus nos quibusdam prodesse ad correctionem quamuis sciamus aliis minime placuisse sed non est nobis consultum semper si lere non aperire subiectis eloquia diuina quia si praeco tacet quis Iudicem venturum enuntiet D. Iames detect part 2. pag. 55. Now what connexion the bodilie or vnbodilie presence of Christ in the sacrament hath with the custome of monks I am persuaded that excepting these two great Doctours all the world beside can not imagin Especiallie considering that in the wordes related by Iames there is no mētion at all of the bodie of Christ but of correction of some certaine persons And surelie Alfrick being an Abbat himselfe it is to be iudged farre more proper to him to haue writ of things appertaining to the profession of religious persons thē of the Eucharist or transubstātiation or as they will haue it against the same Finallie Fox referres the translation and publishing of the Homilie and Epistles to the yeare 996. Yet Iames affirmes that the Archbishop wolstan to whome Alfrick writte his Epistle concerning that businesse was a boute the yeare 1054. which yeare differeth much from the other Wherefore let Sir Humfrey be assured that till he cleares these difficulties this his new-founde writing caries no authoritie against the Romanists And so for conclusion of this matter I say that till Sir Humfrey or some of his companions can produce some authenticall authour before Luther who without their owne glosses or illations doth teach plainelie these negatiues Christs bodie and bloud are not reallie present in the Eucharist
meaning is and he will presentlie cease to maruell at his position He must therefore know that whereas Bellarmin affirmeth that the Councell of Trent alone might bee sufficient to declare vnto the whole Church as an infallible trueth that the number of Sacraments properlie and truelie so called is no more nor lesse then seauen his meaning is that because the foresaid Councell is of as greate authoritie as other generall Councells euer haue had in times past it ought to haue the same credit in the present Church touching those points which it hath defined that they had in the Church of their times in such matters as they then defined and consequentlie that as those points of doctrine which notwithstāding they had beene doubtfull before were neuerthelesse by the same Councels determined as certaine and infallible doctrine of faith without anie defect of antiquitie vniuersalitie or consent in such manner as all the whole Christian world was boūd vnder paine of damnation to beleeue it as is manifest in the consubstantiallitie of the second person definde in the Councell of Nice the diuinitie of the third person in the first Councell of Constantinople the vnitie of the person of Christ in the Ephesin and the duplicitie or distinction of his natures in the Councell of Calcedon as also the duplicitie or distinction of his wills in the sixt Councell celebrated at Constantinople so in like manner ought the present Church to doe with the Councell of Trent in all it definitions and particularlie in the definition of the number of the seuen Sacraments which definition ought to be held for certaine as well as the former determinations of the foresaid Councels both in respect it was decreed by the authoritie of the same succeeding Church by which those definitions were made as also in regard it hath antiquitie vniuersalitie and consent both in asmuch as it is deduced from the scriptures by infallible authoritie and also for that we doe not finde anie either of the auncient Fathers or moderne diuines to haue denied the Sacraments to be seuen in number or affirmed them to be onelie two as the reformers commonlie teach Now for the second reprehension which Sir Humfrey maketh of Bellarmin for saying that if we take away the credit of the present Church and present Councell of Trent the decrees of all other Councels nay euen Christian faith it selfe might be called in question this reprehension I say is as friuolous as the former for that according to both Bellarmines supposition and the trueth itselfe the present Roman Church and Councell of Trent being of the same authoritie as I haue aboue declared with the Church and Councels of more auncient times and also it being euident that as in those daies diuerse points of doctrine haue bene called in question by the heretikes of those times so they might at this present be brought againe in doubt by others as experience itselfe hath taught vs both euen in those same matters which in former times haue bene definde as appeereth by the heresie of the new Trinitarians and others as also in other truethes which as yet were euer held in the Church for certaine all this I say being most apparantlie true and out of all manner of doubt among the learned sorte of people doubtlesse if as Bellarmine saith we take awaie the credit of the present Church and present Councell of Trent or others which heereafter may be assembled there will be no power lefte whereby to suppresse such new oppinions and errours as by heretikes in diuers times and occasions may be broached contrarie to the Christian faith as well concerning matters alreadie determined in former Councells as also touching such new doctrine as may hereafter be inuented by other sectaries of which we haue too much experience in the Nouellists of these our dayes who call in questiō diuers points defined in former Synods of which we haue instances in the doctrine of the distinction of the diuine persons questioned by the new Trinitarians of the doctrine aboute the lawfull vse and honour of images defined in the 7. Generall Councell the doctrine of transubstantiation in the Councell of Lateran The number of the Sacraments and the like reiected euen by Sir Humfrey him selfe and his fellowes and consequentlie that which Bellarmine affirmeth in this sense is most plaine and certaine and so farre from Atheisme as the contrarie is from trueth it selfe And if Bellarmine be reprehensible for equalizing the present Church and Councells with those of auncient times suerlie the reformers themselues are farre more faultie and guiltie in this kinde for that they doe not equalize but also preferre the authoritie of their owne present Congregations and Parleaments before the Church and Councells of farre more auncient times then is the date of their doctrine and religion And this they doe not onelie in these points of doctrine which the later Councells haue determined against the later errours of Sectaries as the knight doth odiouslie sugiest but also in some articles of most auncient faith and doctrine as is manifestlie apparant in the pointe of the reall presente iustification and the like And as for the reason which Sir Humfrey yeeldeth against the authoritie of the present Church alledging that the worde of Christ is alone sufficient for the faith of all beleeuing Christians this reason I say is of no force it is but an ould song of the Puritans which hath beene a thousand times repeated by the reformers and as osten refuted by the Romanists And who denyes but that the worde of God certainelie knowē for such truely interpreted and declared is sufficient for the faith of all Christiās but to this who doth not also knowe that the authoritie of the Church is necessarie in all times and places nay whoe doth not see that the one of necessaritie and as it were intrinsically inuolueth the other and that in such sorte that the sectaries by excluding the infalible authouritie of the present Church from the sufficientie of the scrpitures doe nothing lesse then deny that parte of the scripture which commendeth vnto vs the constant and perpetually successiue authority of the Church till the confommation of the worlde And if Sir Humfrey had considered the reason which Bellarmin yeeldes surely he could not so much haue marauiled that he giues so great authority to the councell of Trēt and present Church for saith hee if we take that away we haue no infallible testimonie that the former Councells were euer extant that they were legitimate and that they defined this or that point of doctrine c. for the mention which historians make of those councells is but a humane testimonie subiect to falsitie thus Bell. all which discourse of his because he might haue more colour to complaine of him and the the Romā Church the insyncere knight resolued to keep it from the eyes of his reader True it is that the reformers out of their greate purenesse or rather out of
their pure madnesse doe vsually exclaime against the supposed superstitions of the Roman Church but the Romanists may farre more iustly complaine of them in the same kinde in regarde that superstition is noething els addording to the etimologie of the worde but superfluous religion and to tie the worde of God to the precise written caracter alone in my conceipt is the highest degree of superstition that can be imagined because these precisians by that meanes doe so excessiuelie and superfluously extoll the writen worde that by their exclusiue hiperbole of the sufficiencie of it alone they renounce all other sortes of worde of God either preached or otherwise deliuered to the Church either in plaine tearmes or at the least by necessarie sequelle which is noething els but out of a superfluous precisenes to assigne limits to that which is illimitable and boundes to that which is infinite and consequently out of a superstitious zeale of religion to destroyall true religion and the true worde of God it selfe Furthermore for the sufficiencie of the written worde preciselie the knight citeth the Apostle S. Paule act 20. vers 27. were he saith so I haue not shunned to declare vnto you all the councell of God but this is so impertinentlie alledged that it needes no answer it being manifest that the Apostle neither speaketh of scripture alone nor intendeth to exclude other partes of the worde of God nor yet so to limit that which he himselfe writ or spoake as if he had deliuered in writing all the doctrine with out exception which is any waie necessarie to the saluation of euerie mans soule both in generall and in particular Otherwise it would follow that all which the rest of the sacred writers haue published in the scriptures were superfluous and no way necessarie to haue beene penned Besides that S. Paule in the place cited saith not that he hath written but onely that he hath declared vnto them all the councell of God and so he neither in wordes nor sēse fauoureth the reformers tenet of the all sufciencie of the writtē worde but rather Sir Hūfrey is here to be noted for a corruptor of the text And no lesse idlely doth the knight cite for the same purpose the testimonie of Bellarm. his meaning being so farre from this matter as that if hee were not his aeuersarie as he is most plainelie euen in this point yet had it beene meere madnesse to haue as much as named him in this darticular and so perhaps for this reason onely he was ashamed to quote the place yet as comonly he doth in other occasions Finally for conclusion of his disproofe of the authoritie of the present Roman Church Sir Humfrey demaundeth of vs how the faith of Christians can depend vpon a Church which is fallen from the faith or generall beliefe of Christianitie can rely safely vpon a coūcell that is disclaimed by the greatest parte of the world By England by France by Germany But to this I answere that in this double question he telleth his reader at the least a double lye both which we must take vpon his owne credit for he alledgeth nothing but his owne worthie word which of how little worth it is we haue sufficientlie tryed allreadie Wherefore we must with his leaue tell him that neither it is true that the Roman Church is fallen from the faith except he meanes from the faith of Luther and Caluin or from his owne English faith from which neuerthelesse the Roman Church cannot truelie be affirmed to haue fallen but it from her she hauing beene in the world manie hundrethes of yeares before the authours of the new Religion were created nor is it true that the Tridentine Councell is disclaimed by the greater parte of France and Germanie at this present time in matters of faith To saie nothing of Italie Spaine Poland Hungarie and those most vast and spatious Indian Regions of later yeeres reduced to the Roman faith all with nations doe conteine a farre greater number of such as imbrace the foresaid Councell then there are reformers in the world who reiect the same Especiallie considering that euen amongst the reformed Churches themselues notwithstanding the most rigorous lawes proceedings which they vse against the Roman Catholikes where they haue the superioritie of power yet is there no smale number to be founde of those who willinglie receiue all the doctrine of faith conteyned in the Tridentine Sinod and consequentlie it appeeres by this that Sir Humfrey hath failed mightilie in his Cosmographie and calculation when he affirmeth that the foresaid Councell is disclaimed by the greatest parte of the world except in his greatest parte he includes Iewes Turkes and Gentiles or at the least count for his owne all those which are not Romanists of what sect or faction soeuer they be as some of his reformed brothers vse to doe not excluding the most vnchristian heretikes the Arians out of the number of the members of their Congregation to make it showe more ample and glorious After this the knight out of the vehemencie of his zealous Spirit falls into a fearefull execration taking vpon him the Anathema if anie man aliue shall proue that the seuen Trent Sacraments were instituted by Christ or that all the Fathers or anie one Father in the Primatiue Church or anie knowne authour for aboute a thousand yeeres after Christ did teach that there were neither more nor lesse then seuen Sacraments truelie and properlie so called and to be beleeued of all for an article of faith Thus hee with so manie turnings and windinges as you see and so manie limitations of his speech that a man would thinke it vnpossible but that he might escape the snare of his owne conditional cursse which yet he doth not but rather falleth flatte into it as I will presentlie shewe And first I say that if Sir Humfrey would content himselfe with the authoritie or testimonie of dead men I could remitte him not to one but to one hundreth authours who yet aliue in their workes doe testifie the foresaid institution in plaine tearmes to witt all those diuines who liued and writ euer since the time of Petrus Lombardus of whom as from their common master they receaued the doctrine of the seuen Sacraments as successiuelie deduced from the institution of God and deliuered it to their successours with greate vniformitie and consent as appeereth by their bookes And altho' this might be sufficient to satisfie anie reasonable person in the world neuerthelesse because Sir Humfreys importunitie is so greate that he will needes haue the testimonies of liue authours I remitte him to all those who either in the publike vniuersities or pulpits of all Catholike countries doe teach and preach the same at this daie to witt that not onelie a thousand yeeres after Christ but euen from the time of Christ himselfe or at the least from the time of his Apostles preaching and writing there were neither more nor lesse then seuen Sacraments truelie and
translation of Lyra's wordes both the worde aliquando in the begining also the end of his sentence to wit Lyra in c. 14. Dan. talia exstirpanda sunt à bonis prelatis sicut ista extirpata sunt à Daniele De ciuit l. 2. c. 8. And we yet further affirme with S. Augustin that he that seeketh to be confirmed by miracles nowe is to be wondered at most of all himselfe in refusing to beleeue what all the world beleeueth besides himselfe But in those wordes S. Augustin doth not deny but that true miracles may be in the Church nor yet that they were not in his time Lib. 22. c. 8. for in his bookes de Ciuit. he affirmeth expressely that Christian doctrine not onely in the begining but also in the progresse of the Church was confirmed by miracles as besides other places the very title of that same chapter rehearsed in my margen makes appeare to which these his wordes in the discourse following plainely agree De miraculis quae vt mundus in Christo crederet facta sunt ficri mundo credente nō desinunt Tit. c. 8 li. 22. For saith S. Augustin euen at this present time miracles are operated or done in his name in the name of Christ either by the Sacraments or by the prayers memories of his saints And the same S. Aug. in the same place further relates one famous miracle in particular done at the bodie of S. Geruase Protase in Milā where he himselfe remained at that present time And by this it is euident that S. Aug. in the other place produced by Sir Humfrey onely condemneth him whoe for want of miracles should refuse to beleeue to which we Romanists most willingly agree And by this it appeareth that S. Augustin is here impertinently alledged by the knight But the trueth is that because these companions haue no miracles in their owne Church they striue by all meanes possible to obscure the miracles of the Church of Rome crye out like Bedlames ther is no need of miracles And now to come to a conclusion of this section the censure of it I would faine knowe of Sir Humfrey what is all this discourse of miracles to the purpose of testifying his doctrine by the confession of Bellarmin surely nothing at all I persuade my selfe the knight was mightly distracted when he penned it and so I leaue him till he returnes to his more perfect senses THE XV. PERIOD SIR Humfrey playeth the parte of a Charlatan so farre that he is not content by his prestigious trickes sleights to laie clame to ancient Fathers moderne Romanists for confessors of his owne faith but also out of the groasenes of his education in this section he presumeth to laie his greasie handes vpon those holie primatiue martyres champions of Iesus Christ ingrossing conueying those sacred wares into his owne stincking store-house which neuerthelesse all ages all Christian people all nations haue till the dayes of Luther proclamed testified to pertaine to the renowne glorie of the Roman Church And altho' he would seeme to proue that the foresaid prime martyrs doe not belong to the Church of Rome yet his cheefe proofe is but prating an idle application of his owne tenets alreadie examined confuted in their seuerall places where they haue ben all founde either plainelie false or at the least equiuocall founded vpon false suppositions vpon which no true argument can be framed which being so I may iustelie saue labour to descend to particulars yet one onelie wil I specifie which is so shamefullie impertinent that it is sufficient alone to shame the rest He sayth therefore that Father Garnet being demaunded whether if he were to consecrate the Sacrament that morning he should suffer death he durst after consecration affirme vpon his Saluation that the wine in the cup consecrated was the verie blood of Christ which flowed from his side he made ansere it might iustelie be doubted This is the wise storie which Sir Humfrey telleth vs out of Bishop Andrewes which altho' wee are not bounde to beleeue as being iustified onelie by our aduersaries yet suppose it is as true as their Gospell it maketh not anie thing for this purpose for that Sir Humfreys taske in this place was not to medle with martyrs of these later ages but to demonstrate that those ancient martyrs of former ages did not die for that fayth which the present Roman Church professeth so what soeuer he or his Prelate can faigne of Father Garnet is but a fooles boult which flying at randome cometh not neare the marke Father Garnet sayth hee durst not pronounce openlie ouer the cup after he had consecrated it this is the bloud of Christ ergo neuer anie martyr did take it vpon his death that the consecrated bread is the corporall reall flesh of Christ Behould I praye this most subtill Logike of a knight admire it Or if you list rather laffe at it as I did when I founde it out so I lefte it without anie further confutation imagining that perhaps Sir Humfrey lōg before he was borne did miraculouslie speake with some of those ancient souldiers of Christ so came to knowe that none of them euer gaue their liues for the reall presence Which in deed is the point in question not whether a man can lawfullie pronounce vpon his Saluation whether this or that hoste in particular after consecration containeth the bodie of Christ as the knight captiouslie supposeth But yet shewing vs some more graines of his follie he sayth further that it is vndoubtedlie true that the ancient martyrs could not dye in that fayth nor for that religion which was altogether vnknowne to their church O ingenious gētilman but yet I pray tell me if the fore sayd martyrs dyed not for the Romanists religion because as you faigne they dyed not for the profession of the reall presence For what religion did they dye Suerlie not for yours because if our religiō was vnknowne vnto them much more was yours vnknowne to their ages which was not in the world before the daies of Luther except perhaps your 39. articles were knowne vnto them by extraordinarie reuelation before they were coyned It is true here we haue Sir Humfreys ipse dixit for confirmation of his tenet so it must needs be doubtlesse his authority is so excessiuely great Sir Tho. Ouerb in his caract of a Puritā or Precisian And so I graunt the hypotheticall to be most true And me thinkes it is not much vnlike to an other such like position of the Puritans who vse to say it is vnpossible for a man to be damned in their religion so a facetious Protestant confesses for certaine as long as heliues in it but if he dyes in it ther 's the question Wherefore since all is but trifles that Sir Humfrey bringeth I wish the reader of his booke to consider with himselfe
which I haue made the reader may plainely viewe the great difference ther is betweene the desired reformation of Gerson and that of the pretended Innouators of our tymes the one being almost quite opposite to the other the one intending onely to redresse the Church in some particular accessorie defects the other indeuoring violētly to destroye the whole frame and foundatiō of the visible Church and to build a newe one and finaly the one being a reformation either wholely or cheefly in the life and maners of some corrupted persons the other cheefly in faith doctrine and not regarding reformation of life but rather giuing more scope and libertie to licentiousnesse then euer was heard of in the Christian world And altho' Gerson doth insinuate the necessitie of reformation euen in matters of faith and religion yet doth he not meane of the faith and teligion maintained approued and practized by the Roman Church but he speaketh onely of the errours of heretikes some abuses of other particular persons cropen into the exercise of the true religiō in which he desired reformation to the end the state of the Church may remaine and cōtinue firme in her former puritie without staine of erroneous doctrine or corrupted manners In all which he wished the slownesse of the prelates might be hastened by the power of the secular authoritie of kings and Princes rather then lye vnamended with danger of the Roman faith and preiudice to the saluation of soules Which pious zeale of that renowned chanceler was highly to be commended as farre different from the proceedings of the authors of our newe pretended reformation who to acquire them selues a name of famous men vnder the colour of reforming the Church made a preye of the same with infinit losse of Christian soules and generall domage to virtue and religious life More ouer I am to aduertice the reader that in the citation of this author Sir Humfrey hath cōmirted twoe notable fraudes The first is in that he reherses a great parte of his wordes as if he had founde them allogether in one continuated order or text wheras the author hath them in diuers places to diuers purposes For example Sir Humfrey ioyneth that which Gerson saith of remission of sinnes by so mainie Pater nosters which he hath in his treatie of Indulgences with that other passage of preferring the particular obseruations of some countries before the lawe of God which he hath not in the same place but in an other treatise intituled de directione cordis Secondly I finde those wordes of Gerson which all or most of them being spoaken by him onely of correction of manners the kinght applyeth thē to matters of faith to persuade his reader that ther were corruptions in the Church euen in matters of faith and that the chancelor procured reformation of them An exemple of this fraude you haue in the 650. page of the deuia where the knight sayth Gersō wished at the least a restoring of the ancient faith of the Fathers tyme citing for this his treatice intituled de Coucilio Generali vnius obedientiae and quoting these wordes in the margin Ecclesia sinon ad statum Christi Apostolorum Saltem ad statum Syluestri restituenda Which wordes neuerthelesse Gerson speaketh not of matters of faith but onely of the prouision and collation of benefices as both his whole discourse and especially his precedent wordes doe most clearely demonstrate Which are these Sed longe aliter imprimatiua dolatione donatione distribuebantur bona talia quam postmodum tempore praelatorum qui caeperunt paulatim refrigescere a sanctitate priorum tandem abusi sunt collationibus bene ficiorum ciusmodi administratione quod Papae ad se paulatim multa reuocauerunt vsque adeo quod finaliter datis occasionibus acceptis quas non est hic opus recitare quasi tota iurisdictio collatio talis paenes Papam eius curiam remanebant And after theses wordes Gerson vttered those other at which Sir Humfrey catched yet according to his inueterated custome related not syncerily which if otherwise he had truely reheharsed they would haue presently discouered the truth and of what matter they were deliuered for Gerson saith vel redeundum esset ad statum Ecclesiae tempore syluestri Gregorij quando quilibet Praelatus dimittebatur in sua iurisdictione sollidudinis parte nowe let the reader confer all these wordes of Gerson with the citation of Sir humfrey in the page aboue noted he will presently perceiue howe he hath corrupted thē both in tenor and sense and how he hath foysted in the worde Ecclesia wher it is not to be founde in the text of the author As alsoe in the place taken out of Gersons in his consolatorie tract of rectifyind the hart he transposeth and mangleth his wordes leauing out the worde particular and for the wordes in aliquibus religionibus translating in manie conuents puting manie in steede of some And where the same Gerson in an other place complaining of the imperfections and vices of the regular and secular Cleargie doth explicate him selfe not to meane of all but of some particular persons Sir Humfrey guilefully omits his wordes which are these Sed nunquid hodie omnes Domini Paelati in intedictis post dicendis culpabiles sunt malis absit reliquit enim Dominus sibi in Israell septem millia virorum quorum genua non sunt curuata ante Baal and where the author speaking of disorders of the monasteries of nunnes and fryres vseth the worde quasi to giue the reader aduertisement that he speaketh not absolutely but onely by way of comparison In cōsolat the malitious knight leaues it out as if it were not to the purpose as he omits alsoe the worde nōnunqnam when the author speakes of the dāger which some tymes happeneth among the simple sorte by reason of the multiplicitie of such things as he ther mentioneth In like manner in an other tract in wheras the Chancelor at the first making some doubt of the obtaining of a certaine Indulgence by saying soe manie Pater nosters before an image of the Crucifix yet afterwardes doth moderate his owne speeches soe that it plainely apppeares he doth not condemne the same the fraudulent knight soe relateth the passage as if Gerson had not onely taxed that forme of indulgēce in particular but alsoe had absolutely renoūced the Romā doctrine touching the lawfullnes of Indulgēces in generall his wordes are these Circa haec itaque similia multum caute procedendum est prouidendum ne opponatur firma vel pertinax credulitas propter erroris periculum neque etiam oportet eiusmodi omnino pertinaciter dissentire nec etiam penitus contemnere improbare est igitur ambulandum in his via media c. by which and other the like submissiue temperate wordes which he hath afterwardes in the same place the reader may see Gerson was as farre from
it is euer essentially one the same in it selfe cleare from distinction cleare from error the coÌ„trarie to which neuerthelesse should necessarily be true if ei-faith were diuided in to fundamental not fundamental faith the Church could erre in her propositioÌ„ of the one not of the other And to this I adde that one propertie of the true Church is holines but now what sanctitie integritie or holines can possible be in the Church if it be infected with errors in faith of what nature soe euer they bee For as the scripture affiirmes sine fide that is true pure intyre faith impossibile est placere Deo True faith is the forme fashioÌ„ beautie of the Church which is the immaculate sponse of Christ ' not hauing spot or wrincle In soe much that if she be defaced thus with errors she can not possible be the sponse of Christ as in the cided place like wise in the Canticles she is described all faire or comely but rather she would be like a leaper or most deformed creature Thirdly I confesse for my parte I could neuer perfectly vnderstand what the Nouellists truely meane by fundamental not fundamental points by reason I finde the matter in none of their workes sufficiently explicated I veriely coÌ„ceiue they purposely anoyde the declaration of it to the ende the absurditie may lesse appeare Neuerthelesse it seemes in probabilitie that by fundamentals they meane all those points which according to their owne exposition ar contained in scriptures the three creedes And by not fundamentals the points of controuersie betwixt vs theÌ„ as is the number of Canonical bookes the infallible rule of interpretation of scriptures the real presence transsubstantiation iustification ' c. This beiÌ„g supposed I argue thus Either those points which our aduersaries call not fundamentals ar matters of faith ' to be beleeued by all sortes of Christians according to the diuersitie of their tenets vnder paine of damnation or not to be beleeued If they ar thus necessarily to be beleeued by faith then doubtelesse they ar included in those truthes touching which as I haue declared coÌ„firmed before by both scriptures Fathers Christ promised to his Church the assistance of the diuine Sprit to remaine with it eternally that is till the consummation of the worlde and consequently the Church can not committe anie error in proposing them to the people as being no lesse fundamental in that respect then anie of the rest of the articles of faith But if our aduersaries on the contrarie denye them to be necessarily beleeued vnder paine of losse of SaluatioÌ„ hould theÌ„ onely as matters of indifferencie such as may either be beleeued or not be beleeued without preiudice of faith or maÌ„ners vpon this supposition I graunte the Church may erre in proposing theÌ„ to her flock but yet in this case that parte of our aduersaries distinctioÌ„ affirming that the Church can erre in not fuÌ„dameÌ„tal matters of faith is still false and impertineÌ„t in regarde those particulars aboue telated in which they teache the Church can erre ar soe farre from being either fundamentals or not fundamentals in matter of faith that according to the former supposition they ar not either one way or other with in the circuit of faith and consequently that parte or member of our aduersaries dinstinction viz that the Church can erre in not fundamentals is both false nugatorie and impertinent in which sense soeuer they intend to maintaine it Fourtly I proue directly that the affirmatiues euen of those particulars controuerted betwixt vs and the professors of the English Religion ar fundamental points of faith and by consequence that if the Church can erre in them that parte of their new distinction is false according to which they auerre the Church can not erre in fundamental points of Religion which I conuince in this forme of argument That distinction is false and absurde according to which it necessarily followes that the Church can erre in matters the true faith of which is necessarie to saluation But according to the distinction of fundamental and not fundamental matters of faith it necessarily followes the Church can erre in matters necessarie to saluation Ergo The distinction of fundamental and not fundamental matters of faith is a false and absurde distinction The minor in which the total difficultie consists I proue because according to this distinction the Church may erre in these propositions The Church hath the true complete Canon of scripture The Church hath the true interpretation and sense of scripture Christs bodie and bloud ar truely really substantially and not by onely faith contained in the sacred Eucharist c. And yet the faith of these either affirmatiuely or negatiuely is necessarie to saluatioÌ„ as the aduersaries theÌ„ selues if they will not be occounted obstinate in a matter soe cleare and manifest can not denye Therfore it is hence concluded by forcible sequele that their distinction of fundamentals and not fundamentals in matters of faith is false and absurde Fiftely I reason in this manner against the same distinction If the infallibilitie of the Churches authoritie consistes in fundamental points of Religion onely and not in all that the true Church shal at anie tyme declare vnto her members concerning their faith and Religion then were not tâ—e prouidence of Christ perfect towardes his sponse but more defectiue then God was towardes the synagog of the Iewes neither were this anie other then to imagine that Christ in deede did laye a sounde foundation for his Church but lefte walles and roofe exposed to be deiected or caste to grounde with euerie puffe of winde which how repugnant to reason his owne inuiolable promisse this is the reader may easily consider and censure Sixtly I argue yet more positiuely against the distinction related because our aduersaries frame it either in respect of the greater or lesser dignitie of the obiects of fundamental and not fundameÌ„tal points of faith in them selues or in respect of the greater or lesse necessitie of them to saluation by reason of the necessitie of faith which the members of the true Church haue of them all and euerie one in particular Now if we respect onely the material obiects in them selues and the necessitie of them to saluation precisely soe I confesse ther ar some particular matters of faith which much surpasse orhers and in that respect alsoe the one may not vnaptely be termed fundamental in comparision of the rest which haue not that preheminencie For example that ther is a God and that God is a rewarder of workes quod Deus est remunerator sit That he is one in three persons that the second person in Trinitie became incarnate or tooke humaine nature vpon him was borne of the Virgin Marie suffered death for our dedemption c. are matters both more noble and dignifiable in them selues then those Christ fasted fortie dayes and fortie nights an Angel
appeared to him in his agonie Peter denyed Christ and other such like truthes Yet this how true soeuer it bee it is nothing to the purpose which here we treate nor afordeth anie grounde or foundation for the prenominated distinction of our aduersaries in regarde that althou ' ther be neuer soe great difference among those and other points of Religion in the dignitie of the material obiects by reason of which in some sorte the one may be named fundamental the other not fundamental neuerthelesse because the faith of the one is no lesse necessarie to saluatiō then the faith of the other thēce it is that absolutely the one is as much fundamental as the other and consequently ther ar no not fundamentals in matters of faith as the distinction of out aduersaries doth falsely suppose And hence in like manner it farther insueth that if the Church should erre but onely in the definitiō or proposition euen of those matters of lesse qualitie the error would be directly against diuine faith and consequently the Church in this case should truely be said to haue erred eued in fundamental points of faith and in matters necessarie to saluation fundamental points as I haue declared and often repeated being no other then all those reuailed truethes the faith of which is necessarie in the members of the Church for the obtaining of eternal life not obstanding anie difference which otherwise may apppeare in the nature of the seueral obiects or matters supposing no one parte but the whole intyre faith of Christ and euerie parte and partiall of those verities which he hath reuailed to his Church is the foundation of true Christian and Catholique Religion it being as necessarie to saluation for euerie true Christian to beleeue truely and syncerely if it be proposed vnto him by the Church that the cocke crowed at the tyme of S Peters denyal of Christ or that a souldier lanced our sauiors side with a speare as that he dyed vpon the Crosse for our redemption and risse againe for our iustification But Finally If peraduēture our aduersaries should say that within the compasse of true faith some things be necessarie to saluation and others not necessarie and that consequently some things be fundamental but others not To this instance I replye it is founded in a manifest equiuocation For althou ' it is true that their be some things within the compasse of saith which ar not necessarie for euerie member of the Church to knowe them expressely yet is it necessarie to saluation for euerie faithfull Christian thou ' neuer soe simple or ignorant to beleeue euerie parte and partiall of those obiects or matters which God hath reuailed if for such by the Church they be proposed vnto him otherwise he should incurre the censure of that strict and fearefull sentence of the most iuste and equal iudge Christ our Sauior qui vero non crediderit condemnabitur and soe the faith euen of all those things which euerie one by reason of his state or condition of life or for want of vnderstanding is not obledged to knowe is necessarie to saluation and consequently all kinde of faith of what matter soeuer it be that God hath reuailed is as much fūdamētall as is faith of the greatest matter or mysterie of the whole Christiā beleefe whēce it is that as S. Gregorie Nazianzen treating of the vnitie and integritie of faith in his 39. oratiō aboute the ende declareth by example or similitude that faith is like vnto a goulden chaine connected and compounded of diuers linkes from which if you take anie one away you loose your saluation as S. Ambrose in the ende of hir sixt kooke vpon the Euangell of S. Luke declares By which it is manifeste that faith of euerie point or matter within the compasse of faith is necessarie to saluation and therfore fundamental absolutely whether the obiect be great or little and no faith not fundamētal as the new distinction of the Nouellists most falsely affirmes which ther distinction doubtnesse was inuented by them to the ende they might haue a more plausible coulor to accuse the Roman Church of errors comitted in faith as alsoe for excuse of ther owne their malice and irreligion being so great that like vnconscionable taylers they chose rather to cutte out a Church for Christ of such corrupted stuffe as this then to liue or dye vnreuenged of the Catholique Roman Church And for conclusion I adde that since I haue made manifest by these my reasons that the faith euen of those points of Religion which our aduersaries terme not fundamental is absolutely required to the saluation of euerie Christian soule if euen in rhese particulars onely the Church could erre none could assuredly be persuaded that by makeing them selues members of it they ar in the certaine infallible way to the obteining of eternal blessednes but still should remaine in the like dangerous desperate state they did before they were in the Church of Christ cōsequently by reason of this vncertaintie perill a generall neglect of procuring to enter in to the true Church of Christ would be caused in the mindes of men which inconuenience in regarde it proceedes by inauoiable cōsequence from this distinction broached vsed by our aduersaries it plainely appeeres the doctrine of it is in diuers respect most pernicious damnable as not tending in anie sorte to the reformatiō of the Church as is by them pretended but directely to the ruine destruction of it Deuia sec 3. pag. 45. S. Augustin in the 23. chap. of the 13. booke of his cōfessions affirming that spiritual men must not iudge of the scripture is corrupted by Sir Hūfrey for he meaneth not that spiritual men must not in anie case iudge of the true sense of scripture for that were both false yea repugnant to the doctrine practise euen of the pretensiue reformers them selues who as they can not denye whether they be spiritual or not spirituall vse to read interpret scriptures much more comonly then the Romanists doe yea giue libertie therin euen to those of the feminine sexe or gender But the true obuious sense of that diuine doctor in the cited place onely is that spiritual men must not iudge anie thing contained in the scripture as presently he subioines non rite veraciterque dictum esse that is not to be ritely truelly spoken but submit their vnderstanding etiamsi quid ibi non lucet altou ' some thing be not cleare or perspicuous in it This is the pure syncere sense of S. Augustin as his verie wordes declare And nowe let the impartial reader decide whether it doth not rather militate or warre against the manner of dealing with scriptures which the Nouelists practise then againsts the Romanists how be it I syncerely confesse it directly makes neither against the one nor the other but precisely against such as iudge those passages of scripture to be false or not ritely deliuered
that it plainely appeereth he doth rather demonstrate his owne bitternesse rancour towards her then with any probable argument shew any such disposition to remaine in her against any such vnion as hee pretendeth to desire Why then doth S. Humfrey complaine of that which is in a farre worse manner practised by himselfe and his owne brothers besides this I pray you doth the supposed bitternesse of F. Cāpian proue the bitternesse of the Roman Church could he alone bee the whole Roman Church who was but one onely member of it Or are his speeches or priuate positions to be attributed to the whole Church he being but one parte thereof and yet not the greatest what a false Metonymie is this if the head of the Church had vsed such speeches you would haue seemed to haue had some reason to haue attributed them to the whole because that which the head doth may induce a denomination vppon the rest of the body of which examples may be found euen in nature but whatsoeuer any other member doth it cannot rightly be attributed to the whole So that we now see that in this allegation S. Humfrey himselfe doth so carrie the matter and giueth the Church of Roome euen in this same section so much occasion of new disgusts as besides the rehearsed calumnies taxing her with creation of 12. new Articles and coyning of new expositions vpō the ould farre different from the doctrine of the Apostles and that she mayntaineth and practiseth manifest idolatry And the like most false and slanderous exprobrations that as I said before it plainely appeereth that he hath rather demonstrated his owne bitternes and rancour towards the Roman Church then shewed any such defect in her by any argument drowen from Father Campians wordes by him produced which wordes allthough by his quotation of Iewell in the margent he will seeme to haue taken them at secōd hand yet certainely it is a plaine imposture and so let them diuide it as they please betwixt themselues it being euer supposed that S. Humfrey and his Iewell are of equall authoritie with the Catholiks I meane of none at all Moreouer S. Humfteys whole drift in this section being to cleere his owne Church from the infamous brand of Apostacy he imposeth the whole cause of separation vpon the Roman Church and produceth Erasmus for a wittnes of the same who being demaunded for sooth of the duke of Saxonie what was Luthers capitall offence that stirred vp so many opposites against him made answer that Luther had committed two greate crimes for he had taken away the Crowne from the Pope and had taken downe the belly of the monkes To which saying of answer that Erasmus is no competent wittnes against the Roman Church especially in a case where his sole testimonie is interposed And if S. Humfrey had ben circumspect he would not haue cited Erasmus his answere for this purpose as containing one manifest lye if not twb. For neither did Luther euer take the Crowne from the Pope which as the world knowes he still enioyeth maugre him and all his adherents neither did Luther euer take downe the bellies of the monkes except it was by iniuste vsurpation and rapin to fill his owne and to leade his lyfe in luxurious concubinate with breach of his vowes to god and man Immediately before this momicall passage of Luther out of Erasmus which although S. Humfrey produced to colour the pretended Reformers diuisiō from the Church of Rome yet doth it farre more strongly argue a cause in the Pope iustely to reiect them then anie excuse of their preposterous separation before this I say he cited a place out of the Prophet Ose which because it makes nothing to this purpose Cap. 4.15.17 but onely vpon his owne false supposition that the Roman Church is wicked and idolatrous therefore vntill I see him prooue his supposition which yet I know he will neuer be able to performe I leaue it as impertinent as also I omit the examples he brings of Abrahams departure out of Caldea and of the Iewes out of Egypt which are as farre from the case we treate of as Egypt is from Europe or Christendome from Iewrye Therefore I will onely giue notice to the reader how grossely he abuseth certaine authours he cytes to testifye that by Babylon is meant the Christian Rome For ther is not one of those authours that affirmes that after it was conuerted to the Christian faith it was called Babylon according as the scripture vsually speakes of Babylon either properly or Metaphorically Neither is ther likewise anie of the same authours which teach that since the conuersion of that Citye to the faith of Christ Christians ought to departe from it as out of a spirituall and idolatrous Babylon which is that our aduersarie here intendes to proue or at the least ought to proue if anie thing he meanes to prooue against the Romanists And to speake first of the ancient authours here cyted by the kinght which are Tertulliā S. Hierome and S. Augustin it is directly impossible that they should meane by Babylon the Roman Church depraued by anie idolatrie of Christian people for that they were all departed out of the world before the supposed departure of the Roman Church from the true Religion is affirmed by our newe sectaries to haue begun which as they most commonly teach was not before the 600. yeare after the tyme of Christ our Sauiour Now as for the moderne authours to wit Orosius Viues Bellarmin and Baronius and Ribera they are all knowne Romanists yea and some of them cheefe defendours of the Roman Church and faith and so it is euident by this reason alone that they had not such a thought as to meane by Babylon the Roman Church Cap. 22. Viues vpon the 18. booke de cuit Dei explicates him selfe plainely saying Petrus Apostolus Roman Babylonem appellat vt etiam Hyeronymus in vita Marci interpretatur qui ad Marcellam scribens non aliam existimat describi à Ioanne in Apocalypsi Babylonem quam Vrbem Romam Bellarmin also speakes yet plainer in the verie place cited by S. Humfrey viz. lib. 2. de Rom. Pont. cap. 2. for he saith Respondeo Babylonem vocari non Romanam Ecclesiam sed Romanā vrbem qualis erat Ioannis tempore Orosius I haue not But let Baronius speake for him selfe and others Baron Adam 45. Nec per somninm quidem quis vnquam inuenit Romanam Ecclesiam esse Babylonis nomine nuncupatam sed ipsā tantummodô ciuitatem ac id quidem non semper sed cum impietate referta aduersus ipsam Ecclesiam bellum gereret Ribera vnderstands by Babylon persecuting Rome not as it is nowe I need not cite his wordes in a case so cleare So that nowe I doe not see why S. Humfrey produced these authors except it were by corruption of them to make them precursors of his corrupted way And hence also the reader may gather how weakely the knight
onely by an vnautheÌ„ticall history the allegation can be of no more authority theÌ„ is the relatour himselfe who was then a CaluiniaÌ„ sectary called Suauis who hath writ a very corrupted narration of that which passed in the CouÌ„cell as relating the coÌ„tentions or coÌ„trary opinioÌ„s which the Fathers Doctours held whiles matters were in debate vnconcluded as if they had continued after the definitions and decrees were made and so abusing both the Councell his reader egregiously And yet more then this suppose the relation were most true and authenticall yet doth it not proue Sir Humfreys intent videlicet that the Pope denieth reformatlon of Corruptions in faith and manners for that in the wordes related out of the foresaid history there is no mention of any corruptions of that nature but onely of abuses in generall tearmes which Schomberg was of opinion that it had beene better to let them alone yet that was onely his particular dictamen and proposition to which neither the Pope nor the rest of the Councell agreed but resolued vpon a course of reformation as the decrees themselues doe testifie so that this passage of the related historie is impertinentlie alledged by the Knight Finally S. Humfrey doth equiuocate not onely in that which we haue said but alsoe in the very substance of this his whole section For his cheefe or rather whole scope being not onely to proue corruptions in doctrine and manners to be confessed by the Romanists to be in their Church but also that the Pope refuseth to take them away he by his allegations of the testimonies of some Romanists proueth in parte that there were corruptions in manners both before and when the Councell of Trent was assembled but he quite dissembleth the other parte to witte that they were reformed allso by the same Councell and yet not withstanding the very same places which he produceth out of the Romanists doe as plainely auerre the one as the other And so out of those proceedings of Sir Humfrey and the rest which hath bene said it may plainely appeere that he is so farre from recouery of that honour which he lost in the former sections that he hath now stained the same not a little more and so we may conclude this section and include it in the former censure THE III. PERIOD IN the fourth section the knight proceedeth to greater matters to matters I say of life and death for he affirmeth that manny learned Romanists conuicted by the euidence of truth either in parte or in whole haue renounced Popery before their death But let vs see how exactly and sollidly he proceedeth in so weightie a matter He citeth Medâ—cir â— celeberrimus professor D. Venerandus Gablerus tanti comitis exemplum secutus redijt ad Catholicismum Adfuerat is Petro Paulo vergerio è corpore migranti apud quem minor quae dam viderat quae illi animum videbantur perfregisse vt non modo Catholicus sed pientissimus quoque Catholicus fieret Sane aiunt viri graues hunc Apostatam Vergerium sub mortem teterrimos exhalasse faetores ac bouis instar horrendos edidisse boatus c. anno 1567. Surius Com. pag. 733. the Councell of Basill out of Genebrard Aeneas Syluius out of Platina Harding out of Iewell The Rhemish testament out of Causabon The lord Cooke B. Gard. out of Iohn Fox Bellarmins Controuersies And his last will or testament Albertus Pighins Paulus Vergerius and his brother Baptist These are all the authours hee citeth in this section For the proofe of his vast assertion which authours being but ten in number yet three of them are knowen to be no Romanists except he will haue L. Cooke and the two brother Bishops to be Romanists which neuerthelesse he confesseth to to haue protested against the Romish doctrine so that now according to his owne confession the whole number of Roman authours he citeth heere is reduced to seuen which small number I caÌ„not imagin according to what Arithmetick it can truly be accounted many especially if we compare them to the infinite number of the Romanists which haue bene yet are extant in the Christian world constant maintainers of Popery And this I say euen in case it were true that all those seuen had euer renounced the Romish faith either in part or totally as the knight affirmeth which neuerthelesse I will make apparent to be otherwise And first touching the Councell of Basil the very same wordes which Sir Humfrey citeth do conuince the same for saith hee the Councell did allow the cup to the Bohemians vpon this condition that they should not find fault with the contrary vse nor seuer themselues from the Catholike Church Now what is heere to be found in these wordes of the Councell which is any kinde of renuntiation of the Romish faith nay what is there which concerneth the Romish faith at all that which the Councell determineth being but onelie a graunt to one particular nation vpon particular reasons and that in a point of practice not of doctrine which also if our English protestants were as conformable to the Roman Church in all other points of faith and manners as the Bohemians then were might perhaps vpon the like iust reasons and vpon the same condition be graunted in the realme of England and that without any preiudice to either faith or manners But our English sectaries are so farre from conformitie to the Romanists not onely in diuerse other points but euen in this particular that they coÌ„tinually exclaime against them both in their bookes and sermons as violatours of Christs institution in that they do not allwayes and in euerie countrie communicate the people in both kindes Con. Basiliense initio legitimum postea Conciliabulum Scismaticum nullius authoritatis Con. lat sess 11. ex Bell. non refero verba accusing them also that they mangle the Sacrament and vniustlie depriue the laytie of one part there of iudging the same for a laufull cause at the least in parte of their separation from the Roman Church none of which particulars are proued by the testimonie of the Councell of Basil to haue concurred in the case of the Bohemians but rather the contrarie is most plainelie specified so that the knight hath laboured in vaine or rather against himselfe by producing the foresaid testimonie of the Councell of Basil in which noe renuntiation of Popery is to be founde nor anie agreement in doctrine or manners with the pretensiue reformed Churches From whence it is also consequentlie inferred that to be clearelie false which our aduersarie affirmes in the beginning of this section to wit that the reformed Churches haue done nothing in this otherwise then former Councels had anciently decreed He citeth in the second place Aeneas Syluius who was afterwardes Pope Pius the second as if he had renounced the Romish religion in that he saith that as marriage vpon weightie reasons was taken from the Priests so vpon weightie reasons it were wished
to be restored But what is this to the purpose is a wish of an alteration in one particular point that not in faith but manners or rather in practice of the Church a renuntiation of religion either in parte or in whole or is the prohibition of marriage or the celibate or single life of priests anie of the twelue articles which the knight is pleased to tearme the new creede of the Roman Church no suerlie How then is it a matter of faith or the renunciation of it the renuntiation of Poperie and not rather a renuntiation onelie of a precept of the Church in case it were truelie renounced by anie Romanist whatsoeuer he is Which renuntiation neuerthelesse was neuer made by the authour cited as his wordes rehearsed out of Platina by Sir Humfrey himselfe doe make manifest to anie syncere and vnpartiall reader In which not by way of wish or as giuing his reall assent with the reformers as Sir Humfrey doth corruptedly relate but onelie by a doutfull deliuerie of his owne priuate dictamen that present tyme occurring vnto him Sacerdotibus magna ratione sublatas nuptias maiori restituendas videri Plat. in pio 2. And yet more then that after he was Pope and making reflection vpon his former writings published in his greener yeares to the imitation of S. Augustin and others he framed are tractation of diuers particulars passages of his owne workes among which this is one as appeares by the tenor of the same which in his later editions in force of a breefe or Bull is vsually prefixed to his bookes To omitte that if the foresaid Syluius had bene a renouncer of anie point of Poperie it were too ridiculous to imagin that euer he would haue bene elected Pope as neuerthelesse the knight confesseth him to haue bene afterwardes And thus the reader may plainelie see that this allegation is of no more force then the former towards the proofe of Sir Humfreys intent In the next place is master Harding brought in for a renoncer of Popery For that as Iewell reporteth he saith that godly and faithfull people haue since the time of the Primitiue Church much complained of Priuate Masse But suppose it were true what is this to the purpose of renouncing of Popery For what zealous and religious Papist is there in the world who doth not iustly complaine of want of deuotiō in the laity for that they haue not that feruour in frequenting the communion which those of the Primitiue Church had and if this could be remedied what Romanist would not much desire it yea and by all meanes possible procure it but is this to condemne as vnlawfull or contrary to Christs institution as you sectaries doe all Masses as be celebrated without Cōmunicants no such matter No more nay much lesse then if for complaining that Sir Humfrey Linde doth not deale so sincerely in the citations of his aduersaries as becometh the reputatiō of a knight a man should therefore presently be thought to haue quite condemned him of dishonest proceeding in that nature euen in the highest degree of false dealing and corruption Which collection if he please to graunt I know not who will be so vnciuill as to contradict him Especiallie considering that euen in this verie citation he hath corrupted doctour Harding most vnconscionablie by applying against priuate masse that which he speakes onelie against the negligence of the laye people for that they so commonlie omit to communicate at masse as if that authour disalowed of the priuate masse it selfe whose wordes neuerthelesse truelie cited as he hath them in the beginning of the ninth leafe of his answer to Iewels chalēge will cleare the busines and manifestlie discouer where the fault lyeth that others do commonlie forbeare saith hee to communicate with the preist it is through their owne faulte and negligence not regarding their owne saluation whereof the godly and carefull rulers of faithfull people haue since the tyme of the primitiue Church allwayes much complained And thus you see how nimblie the subtil knight hath abused both that worthy doctour his owne reader Wherefore it being by this which we haue said apparent that M. Harding was no condemner of priuate masse as either vnlawfull or against the institution of Christ it also is thence manifestlie consequent that he was no renouncer of Poperie euen in that particular point and so the proofe which the knight would draw from him is of no force nor auaileable to his cause nay it is in trueth so disagreeable to the state of the question that it is no small wonder how either mallice or ignorance could so much blinde him as to make vse of it in this matter The fourth restimonie is out of the Rhemes Testament the authours of which as hee affirmeth out of Causabon auouch the scriptures to haue bene translated into English by the importunitie of the heretiks And he addeth that the Romanists haue of late graunted a dispensation to some men and woemen also to reade scriptures and this also was done saith hee by the importunitie of the heretiks Moreouer as it were in confirmation of the same he addeth that most of the Romish proselites as he tearmeth them did frequent their Church and seruice for the first eleuen yeeres of Queene Elizabeth neither saith he was it forbidden by any lawfull councell Thus he discourseth touching this point Heere is much a doe and little to the purpose And indeede after a greate deale of studie a man shall hardlie collect anie thing out of the whole discourse which may seeme to haue anie shewe of proofe for the knights assertion videlicet That many Romanists haue renounced Popery before their death Yet it seemes to me his whole drift may be reduced to these two arguments The first thus The Romanists haue translated the bible by the importunitie of the reformers giue dispensations to some men and woemen to reade it therefore many Romanists haue renounced Popery The second thus most of the Romanists did frequent the reformed Church and seruice for the first 11. yeeres of Queene Elizabeths reigne neither was their communication with them prohibited by anie lawfull Councell therefore manie Romanists renounced Popery before their death Loe heere two learned Enthymems they march like two march hares and runne starke wilde I wonder what nimble vniuersity man hath taught the knight to choppe Logike so minshingly or what polipracticall Alchymist hath instructed him in the art of extraction so exactly that out of the importunity of his reformed consorts he is able to drawe the translation of the Rhemish Testament and that with a dispensation for some men and woemen to reade it So skilfull he is in extracting oyle out of stones and milke out of mountaines Neither doth his exquisite knowledge stay heere but he will needes persuade his reader he can extract also out of the same that many Romanists haue renounced their Popery by translating the Bible into English and by giuing a dispensation
thy whole confidence in his death onelie haue confidence in no other thing that which is so farre from the deniall of merits as that it is counselled aduised euen by those who are most professed defendours of the Roman doctrine in that point as out of Bellarmine and other diuines we haue showed before Period 4. Nay and besides this it is most plaine in my iudgment that the foresaid rituall in certaine other words following in the same place did neuer intend to exclude all kinde of merit from the workes of man performed by Gods grace and assistance for that it expressely saith in the person of that sick man I offer his merits that is the merits of Christ in steede of the merits I ought to haue for if he ought to haue merits as he affirmeth euen vpon his death bed though he haue thē not euident it is that he denied not the same but plainelie supposed the truth of them And thus we see that the words of the order of baptizing benigniouslie interpreted make nothing for S. Hūfreyes position nor against the Romā doctrine of merits How be it the same was iustelie corrected by the Inquisitors both because the manner of phrase which it vseth might easily giue occasiō of errour especially in these our dayes as also because it is iustelie suspected to be Apochryphall in regarde it containes certaine ill sounding sentēces not onely in the doctrine of the Roman Church but also according to the tenets of the Reformers As where it saith thus These protestations of such as lye a dying were reuailed to a certaine religious man And those wordes he that shall protest such things as followe from his harte cannot be damned c. All which propositions and some othgers are commaunded by the authours of the Index to be blotted as well as the wordes which Sir Humfrey here cites And yet more ouer it is to be aduertised that there is not a worde in all that which our aduersarie produceth against merits which doth proue iustification by faith onelie which is that which he intendes to proue in this place as the title of his paragraph doth declare And so by this meanes he hath quite fled from his text And so this may suffice to demonstrate the falsitie of the knights assertion and the nullitie of the proofe thereof by the testimonies of his aduersaries seeing plainelie that he doth no thing therein but partlie by vntrueths and partlie by equiuocations deludes his reader not citing anie one authour either Romanist or reformer in all this paragraffe more then the wordes rehearsed out of the foresaid Rituall which neuerthelesse hauing bene as suspected of corruption chasticed by the Inquisitours the vncensured coppies which doubtlesse he and his fellowes onelie vse haue no authoritie nor credit in the Roman Church or at the most verie little and consequentlie he proceedeth most weakelie in produceing for a testimonie of his aduersarie that which they doe not acknowledge for theirs especiallie considering he alledgeth nothing els for the proofe of his tenet The second paragraffe is of the Eucharist and Transubstantiation As concerning the Sacraments of the Lords supper saith the knight In the dayes of Alfrick about the yeare 996. There was a Homilie publikelie to be read to the people one Easter day wherein the same doctrine which saith hee our Church now professeth was publikelie taught and receaued and the doctrine of the reall presence which in that time had gotte some footing in the Church was plainelie cōfuted and reiected The wordes which he citeth are these There is a greate difference betwixt the bodie wherein Christ suffered and the bodie which is receaued of the faithfull the bodie that Christ suffered in it was borne of the flesh of marie with bloud and with bone with skinne and with sinewes in human lims with a reasonable soule liuing and his spirituall bodie which nourisheth the faithfull spirituallie is gathered of manie cornes without bloud and bone without lim without soule and therefore there is nothing to be vnderstood bodilie but spirituallie c. Thus farre out of the homilie And this doctrine faith the knight was deliuered in those times not by one onely Bishop but by diuerse in their Synods and by them commended to the Clergie who were commaunded to reade it publikelie to the people one Easter day for their better preparation and instruction in the Sacrament and for the same cause translated into the saxon language by Alfrick and to the same purpose the Knight also citeth two other writinges or Epistles as published and translated also into the vulgar tongue by the same Alfric But to this I answer first that whatsoeuer doctrine is conteynd in the Hom. Epistles cited the Romanists are not boūd to beleeue it because the knight onely citeth them out of his owne authours and as printed by the members of his owne Church to wit out of B. Vsher and Doctour Iames and so it is both absurd and impertinent to produce thē as testimonies of his aduersaries as he professeth to doe in the title of his section especially supposing that he hath not aledged any one author of the Romanists religion where by to proue them authenticall nor yet any other indifferent witnesse but onely those two reformers whom we haue named whoe by the Romanists may iustly be suspected of partiallity in fauour of their owne cause especially if we consider that Sir Humfrey himselfe graunteth that the Latin epistle written by Alfric is to be seene mangled and razed in a manuscript in Benet colledg in Cambridge And certainely the English coppies being found not to aggree with the Latin manuscript which is either the Originall it selfe or at the least cometh much neerer the time in which the authour of it liued then any other coppie the knight could possible haue there is farre greater euidence that the latter translations and impressions are corrupted by the reformers then that either the Index expurgatorius or any other Romanist hath made any alteration or chaunge in the originall coppies or first authenticall manuscripts or in any other except it were onely to restore them to their prime innocenty and originall trueth cheefely supposing that the inquisitors in their expurgation of bookes intend no other thing more then to reduce such as be corrupted to the former purity of their originalls Thirdly I answer that admitte the editions which are published in England be true and sincerely translated and printed which neuerthelesse may iustly be suspected by reason of the manifould corruptions found to haue bene vsed in that nature by diuerse of the reformed profession as by the expurgatory Index doth plainely appeare the authours of which Index haue discouered diuers workes Fathered partely by auncient and partely by moderne sectaries vpō those who neuer writ them which was the cause as I suppose why Antonius posseuinus in the preamble to his select Bibliotheke saith that Sixtus Bellarmine and others haue manifested very maine pestilent bookes
I doubt not but this will be sufficient to make the reader capable of the authours true sense in which I was forced to inlarge my selfe more then the substance of the matter required the more plainelie to discouer vnto him the fraude of the aduerfarie both in detorting the sense and mangling the tenor or continuation of the text of this most Catholike and renowned Prelate Moreouer Sir Hūfrey allegeth S. Thomas in 3. par q. 75. ar 7. as also the Romā Cathecisme at randome as affirming that the substance of the bread remaines till the last worde of the consecration be vttered But this is nothing to the present purpose in respect that how long souer the substance of the bread remaines if at lenght it ceaseth as they both confesse they both agree with vs Romanists and not with the nouellists in the faith of transsubstantiation so professedly that it was more then ordinarie impudencie and madnes once to mentione them for the contrarie Now for cōclusion of the secōd paragraffe of his 9. section Sir Humfrey affirmes in his 115. p. out of Bell and suauez that manie writers in our Roman Church professe the tenet of transsubstantiatien was lately receiued for a point of faith Which affirmation neuerthelesse is not iustifiable but false and calumnious to the authours he cyteth for it videlicet Scotus Durand Tunstal Ostiensis and Gaufridus Which being all the Romanists he either did or could produce supposing Erasmus whome he likewise alledgeth is no Romanist in much of his doctrine in what faith soeuer he ended his life of which I am not able to iudge yet none of these Romanists I say euer affirmed the doctrine of transsubstantiation to be no point of faith as I haue aboue sufficiently declared in my answer to euerie one of their testimonies in particular And touching Bellarmin and suarez the one being alledged by our aduersarie as affirming Scotus to haue said that the doctrine of transubstantiation was not dogmafidei a decree of faith before the Councell of Lateran the other as aduising to haue him and those other schoolemen corrected who teach that the doctrine of transubstantiation is not verie auncient I professe I haue diligentlie read Scotus in this matter and I sinde he onelie saith that what soeuer is auerred to be beleeued in the Councel of the Lateran capite firmiter is to beheld de substantia fidei as of the substance of faith after that solemne declaration yet he in no place hath this negatiue transsubstantiation was not a point of faith before that Councel not obstanding our aduersaries allegation to the contrarie out of the Cardinal who if he conceiued right of his whole discourse could not iudge Scotus to haue absolutelie denyed transubstantiation to haue beene a point of faith in it selfe as Sir Humfrey will haue it but at the most quoad nos or in respect of our expresse and publike faith of the same For that some of Scotus his owne wordes plainelie importe that trāssubstantiatiō is included in the institution of the Eucharist howe be it it was not explicitly or expresselie declared for such in all ages before the solemne declaration as he termeth it made in the Generall Councel of Lateran The wordes of Scotus to this sense and purpose are these Scot. d. 11. q. 3. ad ar Non enim in potestate Ecclesiae fuit facere istud verum vel non verum sed Dei instituentis Et secundum intellectum à Deo traditum Ecclesia explicauit directa in hoc vt creditur spiritu veritatis That is For it was not in the power of the Church to make this the point of transsubstantiation true or not true but of God the institutour And according to the vnderstanding deliuered by God the Church did explicate it directed as it is beleeued by the spirit of trueth By which ratiocination or discourse of Scotus it is most cleare and apparent that the point of transsubstantiation was in it selfe a matter of faith euer since the Sacrament was instituted by Christ in regarde that it being now a point of faith it must of necessitie in substance haue beene ordained for such by God himselfe for that it is not in the power of the Church to make but onelie to declare and propose to beleeuers the articles of Religion And according to this I say that suarez sauing the due respect I owe vnto them both had yet lesse reason then Bellarmin had concerning Scotus to taxe the same Scotus and some other diuines as if they had tought that the doctrine of transsubstantiation is not verie auncient For neyther Scotus as his wordes which I haue related doe testifie nor anie other approued diuine of the Roman Church doe vse anie such manner of speech or at the least haue no such sense in their wordes as euen by all those their seuerall passages which our aduersarie could alledge doth manifestlie appeare How be it some of them haue not omitted to say that the worde transsubstantiation hath not beene auncientlie vsed in the Church but eyther inuented by the Fathers of the Lateran Councel or not long before or at the most that there haue beene some in the world of a contrarie opinion to the trueth of transsubstantiation in itselfe which altho' we Romanists should graunt to be true yet doth it not argue anie noueltie in the doctrine but rather the nouellitie of some fewe extrauagant wits as heretiks or corrigible Catholikes in opposing the same which otherwise was generallie maintained by the rest of the Orthodox diuines in all succeeding ages the antiquitie of which doctrine euen those same authorities which the same Scotus himselfe professeth to be produced by him out of S. Ambrose Scot. d. 11. quest 3. §. quāt ergo to the number of 11. doe euidentlie conuince yet further adding that manie others are alledged cap. de consecrat and by the master in his 10. and 11. distinction Wherefore in my opinion both Bellarmin and suarez might much better haue spared to passe their censures in that manner vpon anie Catholike diuines supposing such reprehensions serue for little or no other vse then to aforde our aduersaries the nouelists newe occasion and matter of contention without eyther necessitie or conueniencie of which the present fact of Sir Humfrey lind euen in this place doth alreadie yealde vs some experience In the last place the knight citeth for his tenet Erasmus but he might haue saued the labour for that the Romanists hould him absolutely for none of theirs as in like manner neither doe they acknowledge wicklif and the waldensians which neuertelesse he was not ashamed to produce for his tenet though onely by waye of omission howbeit in this particular Erasmus onely affirmeth that it was late before the Church definde it which is not contrarie to the certainetie of the doctrine in it selfe but onely a superficiall relation of the time when it was declared expressely for a matter of faith or infalible trueth in
anie other language excepting their owne mother tongue yea then anie other publike language I meane then either hebrew or greeke and finallie it is a language fitter for mutuall communication in religion then anie other tongue and among the more learned sort of people of all nations the most familiar of all And I would faine knowe of the reformers what they haue to doe to call that in question which hath binne generallie practised in the Church for manie hundred yeeres before they and their reformation were hatched Who appointed them for iudges in this matter Let them meddle in their owne affaires their cause is not ours we are all one both in our religion and in the forme and rites of our religion we communicate with all the members of our Church euen in the same externall Ceremonies in what place soeuer they be and they with vs. But you in England haue built a new Church different euen from the rest of the pretended reformed Churches of other Countries you are not vniforme neyther in doctrine nor Ceremonies and so it is not amisse for your purpose that you vse a language in your publick seruice in which you as little agree with your brothers as in your religion Nay in my opinion supposing your separation in communion of religion you haue taken a politick course to separate your selues also in the language of your seruice otherwise it might happen vnto you and your French and dutch brothers as it hath donne alreadie betweene the Gūmarists and Arminians especiallie now whē Arminianisme begins to spred itselfe who are knowne to haue entered into the Church with zealous communication one with another and yet the feruour of their spirits hath so much increased that before the sermon was ended there hath appeered good store of broken pates and perhaps worse for auoyding of which inconueniencies our English Nouellists as it may be supposed haue their seuerall Churches and formes of seruice and doctrine for themselues the French and the Dutch whereas one the contrarie the professours of the Romane Church by reason of their publick seruice or Masse is in a common language are put to no such shifts but wheresoeuer they meet they finde meanes to serue God and to communicate together in the verie same manner they doe in their owne Coūtries whether they be old or yong learned or ignorant of which great comfort the reformers by reason of their new forme of seruice in the vulgar tongue in manie occasions doe wilfully depriue themselues To say nothing of the dignitie which the seruice of God receiueth from the grauitie of the Latine tongue and the disparagement which it suffereth by a vulgar language supposing also that by that meanes euen the secret misteries of the Christian faith come to be as familiar in the mouthes of euerie apish boy as they be to the greatest Doctour of the Church a thing both much repugnant to the practise of auncient times and also which giueth great occasion to manie to vilifie and disesteeme the sacred wordes of God included in the publike seruice yea and oftentimes the thinges themselues by the wordes signified as experience doth daily teach vs to omit the alteration corruption which it is more subiect vnto in a vulgar tongue then in Latine which is alwaies the same as the same experience doth make manifest But Sir Humfrey goeth on and tells his reader that some of the Trent Bishops adiudged the first part of the decrec of the Councell to be questionable for that it seemed to contradict itselfe in that it affirmeth the Masse to containe much instruction for the faithfull and yet commaundeth that parte of the seruice to be vttered with a lowe voyce and in an vnknowne tongue and for this for want of better authours he citeth the historie of the Councell of Trent But all this is but a meere cauill grounded in the relation of a false historiographer for that if anie such thing had happened after the foresaid decree was once confirmed it is not so long a time since the Councell was finished but that the fact of those Bishops would haue binne knowne to the world yea and their punishment for such their temeritie if they had remayned refractorie would haue binne so published as at the least some one or other writer would haue taken notice of the same as well as the authour of that relation neyther is their anie contradiction in the said decree in regard it is manifest that by the instruction of the people the Councell meaneth eyther wholie or cheeflie the epistle Gospell of the Masse as also for that the same Councell withall doth expresselie giue Order that the Pastours of the Church interpret and declare the misteries of the Masse to their parishoners which order taketh away all colour of contradiction which can be imagined in the wordes of the decree especiallie supposing that in what language or with what voice soeuer the Masse be celebrated the foresaid exposition will supplie all the obscuritie which from thence can arise But how be it this which I haue said is true yet I haue discouered by reading that passage in the foresaid Historie that it doth not so relate it but quite in an other manner for that historie doth not affirme that the Tridentine Bishops made that doubt or question of the decree which ordaineth the celebration of Masse in a lowe voyce and vnknowne language as ambiguous in the construction Mandat sancta Synodus pastoribus singulis curam animarum gerentibus vt frequēter inter missarum celebrationē vel per se vel per alios ex ijs quae in Missa leguntur aliquid exponant c. Concil Trid. Sess 22. cap. 8. but the historie saith expresselie that the Protestants made that doubt by way of obiection to which the Bishops ansered in that forme which the same historie relates Which is so foule a falsification in Sir Humfrey that I confesse I had smale mynde to make anie further examen of the rest of the citations of this booke if otherwise I had not alreadie so farre engaged my selfe Let the reader suruey the 650. page of the Trid. historie printed in Latine at Franckford 1621. and he will easilie finde the deceipte And now you see this is but a fiction of a contradiction deuised in discredit of the doctrine of the Councell in this point either by the knight or some other Sycophāt of whome he receiued it vpon truste Besides that if anie such thing had happened in the time of the discussion of the doctrine of the Councell yet certaine it is that all such doubt was cleered and quite taken away by the establishment of the decree itselfe whence it also appeereth how false a consequence Sir Humfrey deduceth out of the same decree to wit that because the Councell affirmeth that the Masse doth affoard great instruction to the people and for that end ought to be interpreted vnto them therefore sayth the knight the Fathers of the
will turne Iewes or Turkes they ought not to take those wordes in that rigorous sense which they doe for so by consequence if they tye themselues so strictlie to the letter of the text they must doe the same in the commaundement of the Sabaoth and so they will be come Sabatizing Iewes indeed Wherefore except Sir Humfrey will turne plaine Talmudist he can proue nothing against Christians out of the foresayd wordes Now touching authorities of auncient Fathers he confesseth that hee for beareth to cite anie in particular and what soeuer he falselie pretendeth the true reason was because he founde none to cite except hee had produced such places as they vse onelie against the idolatrie of Gentils and Ethnikes as Chamier lib. 21. de imag Daniell Chamier and others of the reformed Doctours commonlie doe which places neuer the lesse secluding their owne glosses vpon them doe not in anie sorte fauore their cause And so Sir HuÌ„frey insteede of Fathers hee cites Iewes and Gentils in whose doctrine touching this point hee showeth himselfe to be more conuersant then in Christian writers as finding more for his purpose in them then in these and therefore also as I imagin hee vseth no other answere to Bellarmin affirming that the making of images is not absolutelie prohibited by the lawe of God because God commaunded images to be made the knight I say vseth no other anser then the anser of the Iewes to wit that God did laye a generall commaunde vpon them and not vpon himselfe and so I say no more of it but leaue to the reader to iudge howsolid and good such an ansere may be and whether it sauoreth not much more of Iudaisme then of Christian religion True it is hee cites diuers authours which haue writ since the Councel of Francford but some of theÌ„ as Agrippa Erasmus Cassander Chemnitius are of no authority with vs others are suspected of corruptioÌ„ I meane to haue ben corrupted by malignant publishers as Polidor Virgil and Agobardus Others are impertineÌ„tlie alledged in regarde they eyther speake onelie of the image of God himselfe as Philo Iudeus and S. Augustin or of the manner of worship not of the substance of the honor as Peresius Bellarmin Wicelius Hincmarus for that they eyther onelie condemne the adoration of pictures takeing the word adoration for that kinde of honour which is due vnto God onelie or els they speake onelie of the priuate errous of some simple people of which sorte is Polidor Biel when they reprehend the abuses and superstitions of some simple people who out of ignorance giue more honour to images then eyther they ought to doe or the Church alloweth yet doth Polidor expresselie approue of due honour of the same as his owne wordes declare euen in those places where he vseth that reprehension for thus he saith after he had made relation of diuers images of Christ and his Apostles mentioned by Eusebius and others euen in the most primatiue yeares of the Church Hinc igitur natum vt merito tam ipsi Saluari quaÌ„ eiâ—diuis statuas in templis poni venerationi haberi consueuerit Polid lib. 6. cap. 5. Hence therefore grewe the vse of putting in Churches and honoring as well the statues of our Sauiour as his Saincts And he adds Ecquis igitur tam dissolutus tamque audacia praeditus est qui velit possitne dubitare seu aliter somniare ne dicam sentire vel cogitare de imaginum cultu ac demum sit tot longe Sanctissimorum Patrum decreto constitutum By which wordes it is manifestly conuinced that is other wordes razed by order of the Index haue either beene foisted in by the new sectaries to wit those which auerre that till the time of S. Hierome all the auncient Fathers reiected worship of images for feare of idolatrie or els he meanes onelie that they durst not practice the same least their action might seeme idolatrous either to the ignorant Gentils or to such as were then latelie conuerted from Gentilisme and as yet but infirme in faith and easilie scandalized in this nature All which neuerthelesse cannot possible preiudice the doctrine and practice of the Church it selfe in generall So that neither anie of these authours seuerallie nor all of them together proue that absolutelie to honore the images of Christ and his saints is wicked or blasphemous which is the assertion the knight here maintaines and yet he is not ashamed to call their testimonies the confession of his aduersaries among which also that his impudencie might more clearelie appeare he foysteth in to that rancke Bellarmin and Vasquez which authours if the reader be not ouer grosselie ignorant he will easilie perceiue at the least by the rest of their workes that they cannot truelie fauore Sir Humfreys tenets in this point of Controuersie they hauing both writ professedly of it against the reformers doctrine and in defense of the practise of the Roman Church touching the vse and honour of images And as for the Emperours Valens and Theodosius whome he citeth out of Crinitus saying they made proclamation to all Christians against the images of Christ It is false that those two Emperours euer published anie decree against the images of Christ but expresselie in honour of of the same by establishing by lawe that the image of the Crosse of Christ should not be framed vpon the ground as vpon the stones of sepulchers or graues where it might easilie be prophaned by the feet of those that passed ouer them and that this is the trueth of that passage of those two Emperours or at the least of Theodosius Crinitus his verie wordes would haue plainelie declared if they had not shrunke in the wetting I meane if they had ben intirelie related by the knight who is not the first that hath corrupted the tenour of Theodosius his lawe by leauing out the worde humi vpon the grounde for the wordes of the foresaid lawe being thes let not the Crosse of Christ be painted vpon the grounde or some such like by leauing out the wordes vpon the grounde the sense as you see cometh to be quite contrarie that is the sense falleth out to be this let not the Crosse of Christ be painted which trick of the sectaries was discouered long since by Alanus Copus in his 4. Dialogue the 11. chap. to their vtter shame and discredit And yet besides this I maruell greatelie that either Sir Humfrey or his predecessours offer to make vse of the foresaid wordes of the lawe which as they are cited by him are so generall that they quite coÌ„demne the practice of the reformed brothers themselues none or verie few of them being as yet mounted to that degree of puritie as expresselie to proclame a generall lawe against the pictures of Christ as not to be painted or grauen at all and so I conclude that either those wordes of the two Emperours are to be read as the Romanists doe vse to read them and
to translate his prayer into his vulgar tōgue c. Thus the Rhemists Which as the reader may easilie perceiue doth quite contradicte Sir Humfreys purpose the doctrine practise of his Church Sir Humfrey also falsifyes Gabriel lect 12. in Can. or at the he least he falsely ignorantlie vnderstāds him when in his owne 265. page he cytes him affirming that he diliuereth there seuen reasons why vocall prayer should be vnderstanded by the people For Biel teacheth not there in what lenguage vocall pryer ought to bee but onelie proueth that it must not be meerelie mentall but so vttered pronounced as it may be knowne for such by the people vt innotescat populo which wordes doe not signifie as the kinght falselie English them may be vnderstood but may come to the notice or hearing of the people in regarde it is vocall prayer in what language soeuer it bee Hebrewe Greke or Latin Circa primum an oratio debeat vocaliter perfici Tūc dicitur ad dubium quod oratio publica necessario est vocalis Oportet enim quod talis oratio innotescat populo pro quo offertur Biel. in Can. lect 62. f. 124. So that the reader may perceiue that this author is neither pertinently nor sincerelie produced by our aduersarie For the greater safatie of his reiecting the wiship of images he produces expresselie three onelie authors two of which neuerthelesse are no Romanists one of them being the dimi-Romanist Erasmus the other Cassander neither of whose authorities we admit for current It is true the same Cassāder brings out of Biel something to the same purpose who supposing he be truelie alledged yet it must alwayes be true that one suallowe makes not summer so what soeuer he sayth his authoritie alone can not ingender safetie And since I writ this by taking a viewe of the authors themselues I fynde that Sir Humfrey hath thryse corrupted Cassander by omission of some of his wordes which he rehearses out of the 979. page of his consultation of images for all that clause of Cassander imaginum moderato vsu pacis tranquilitatis causa conseruato Sir Humfrey lets quyte drop out of his pen which wordes not withstanding are of so much importance to haue ben trulie related that togither with some others in the same page which he also pretermits they be the onelie wordes which most declare the authors meaning touching the honor due to images The wordes are these Non tamen haec quae diximus eo pertinent vt imagines sanctorum si in ijs modo decorum seruetur non aliquo honore illis conuenienti debito affici possint videlicet si vt signa monumenta sanctorum honorifice habeantur in gratiam illorum quos significant referunt reuerenter conspiciantur tractentur modo ab eximo cultu temperetur nihil diuinitatis virtutis illis tribuatur sed eo tantum loco habeantur quo litterae voces quae rerum absentium quas diligimus veneramur gratam memoriam suggerant All which long sentence as being much disagreeable to Sir Humfreys Precisian spirit he made shifte to passe ouer in lurchers sylence And in deed in my iudgement the foresayd wordes taken as they stand in the text are so plaine for the worship of images in that sense in which the Roman Church houldes it lawfull to honore them that I can not easilie preceiue in what they differ from the tenor of the decree of the Tridentine Councell in that point In the other place Sir Humfrey likewise omits the latter parte of Biels sentence as it is cyted by Cassander as the wordes are founde in Biel himselfe the wordes which Sir Humfrey scips are these quia qualitercumque consideretur imago est res quaedam insensibilis creatura cui adoratio latrie minime exhibenda Which wordes in deed are those by which both Biel Cassander cheefelie declare what they denie to be lawfull in the due worship of images that is adoration of Latria or diuine honor And yet both of them graunte an other inferior worship or honor due to them so that the industrious knight to saue labor falsified these two authors both at once And altho' Biel doth reprehend that most iustelie the blockish error of some ignorant people of which perhaps some there may be some times in the vniuersall Church that beleeue some diuine virtue or sanctitie to reside in images yea in one more then an other the like sotish conceites yet doth it not followe out of this reprehension of Biel that he denied it absolutelie to be lawfull to worship images in due manner as our captious knight would haue it Nay Biel is so farre from this that in the verie same place quoted by Sir Humfrey he expresselie defēdes adoration of the images of Christ euen with Latria improperlie or per accidens which is as much as anie Roman diuine grauntes to anie image what soeuer To which we may adde that the same Biel doth in expresse termes put for conclusion of his 59. lection these wordes Haec de imaginum adoratione ratione representationis This of the adoration of images in respect of their representation By which wordes it is cleare that is author this grosselie abused in that he is cited by our aduersarie against honor of images he being so plaine a defendant of the same that he doubts not to vse the words Latria adoratio Erasmus Cassander are also here produced by our aduersarie against the vse of images practised in the Roman Church But these two altho' I doubte not but both of them in their writings incline much more to Catholike Religion then they doe to Protestancie yet absolutelie they are but neutrals who followed more their owne wandering wits then anie other certaine rule of faith And so their testimonies are not admitted by vs for Orthodox and authenticall And therefore Sir Humfrey committes an error as often as he vseth them for Romanists Against the safetie of inuocation of Saints he produceth S. Augustin saying Tutius iucundius loquor ad meum Iesum But this sentence he cites he knowes not where and it proues he knowes not what nor I neither S. Augustin truelie affirmeth that he speaketh more safelie delighfully to Iesus thē anie other so doe I but as hee doth not say that he speaketh not to his Saints also no more doe I. Tract 84. in Ioan. And as Saint Aug. tract 84. in Io. sayth that wee make commemoration of the Saints at the table that is at the altar to the end they may pray for vs so doe I. the knight citeth also for his purpose Chemnisius Cassander but I care not for them their testimonie is neither safe nor sound Against the saftie of the doctrine of merits he citeth also S. Bernard saying that dāgerous is the habitatiō of those that trust in their owne merits But here the knight rides beside
testifies in these wordes quoted in the margen In Thomae Caietani commentarijs in D. Tho. 2. 2. q. 122 art 4. omnino corrigantur errores qui fraude haereticorum irrepserunt vt notatur in expurg Index lib. prohib p. 89. Geneu impres The Epistle of Walricus is suppositious which is paoued to be so because it is superscribed to Pope Nicolas to whom according to the computation of times the first Pope Nicolas was before Walricus was borne and the second Nicolas was not borne till after he was dead Neither is it any way probable that such a holie Bishop as Walricus was should commend marriage in other Preists who liued and dyed in vnmarried chastity himselfe and so the foresayd Epistle being a false record as containing an improbable yea a morally impossible relation it was iustely condemned with a deleatur To omit that if this Epistle wer authenticall the reformers would gaine nothing by the bargen for that it teacheth expressely that the Roman Bishop is head of the Church and that Preists at the least after ordination cannot lawfully marrie Sixtly it is false that Bertram's whole booke is condemned as may appeare by the iudgement of the Vniuersitie of Doway approued by the Censurers of bookes inserted in the Index of Quiroya published by Ioannes Pappus a reformed deformed diuine with certaine odious prefaces of his owne coyning printed at Argentin 1609. In the 17. page of which Index it is manifest that the whole booke was not commaunded to be blotted out but onely some fewe things to be corrected or altered in the reading or to be expounded benigneously And as for the doctrine of transsubstantiation the foresaid Doctours of Doway expressely declare that Bertram often times in the first parte of his disputation teaches Catholike transsubstantiation plainely enuffe vsing the words conuertere mutare commutare permutare transponere creaturam in Christum in corpus Christi c. in so much that Illiricus compelled with the plainesse of those wordes confesseth there are in Bertram semina transsubstantiationis seeds of transubstantiation And also the same Dowacene Doctors conclude that those difficult places which are founde in him touching the reall presence which cheefely are two to wit that he seemeth to haue ben of opinion that Christs bodie is no more in the Eucharist then the bodie of the people and that that thing which is celebrated or done in the Church cānot be called God are either to be vnderstood of the externall formes of bread and wine or els that those sentences be inserted by heretiks who printed that booke first at Colen 1532. after at Basil 1550. 1555. so that this is no recorde of the reformers except it be vpon supposition of their owne corruptions or false glosses added vnto it but rather may serue for a pregnant testimonie against them and consequētly he that should haue blotted it out had done them no iniurie but a verie great fauor Seuenthlie I say to the sentence taken out of the booke of baptizme vnder the name of Anselme that manie passages be blotted out by the Censurers of bookes by reason they are such as may easilie be taken in an erroneous sense so scandalize or giue occasion of errour either to the simple or malicious reader which neuerthelesse in a sounde sense containe no false doctrine so might be lefte vncorrected if it were not for the corruption malignitie of the tyme. And of this nature be the wordes of the booke of the visitation of the sicke Baptisme if they be ritely recited by Sir Hum. Doest thou beleeue that the Lord Iesus Christ dyed for our saluation that there is no meanes to be saued by owne merits Which sentence in a true meaning is no recorde of the reformers in a false meaning it is better blotted out thē lefte in And such diligence argueth no ill conscience but a motherlie care of the Church towardes here children 8. We haue sayd sufficient alreadie touching the credit of Cassander whose doctrine the Romanists hould for false recordes either in parte or totalitie And he maketh such preposterous glosses vpon the Ecclesiasticall himnes as the Index noteth in one place that all his whole scholium is repugnant to the same like a commentarie contrarie to the text Yet to giue the reader a taste What truelie this man was who is so farre in Sir Humfreys bookes I say that altho' we hold not Cassander for a Romanist as being in the Index of prohibited bookes for diuers singular positions neuerthelesse the knight cannot iustelie brag of him in regarde it is manifest by his workes which I haue seene read in parte that he expresselie defendes the Roman doctrine in most points of Cōtrouersie betwixt vs the Reformers as also because in a greater parte euen of the same places which Sir Hum. cites in his fauour he is not a little abused either corrupted or detorted by him cōtrarie to his meaning Howbeit in respect he professeth the parte of a Pacifer mediator betwixt vs he could not but leane some thing to their side yet is it so little that I perceiue by one of his writings that he had smale thankes for his paines from some of the faction therefore was most sharpelie handled by them accusing him of dissimulation imposture interruption of the course of the Gospell the like An infortunate man who by his great labours earnest endeuours to content both parties contended neither a iuste punishment due vnto such as destitute of true knowledge in diuinitie which he himselfe in parte confesseth in his generall Preface presume to treat of those sublime subiects sans a guide The Basilean edition of Polidor virgill printed in the yeare 1544. compared with other former the most ancient editions is founde to haue ben corrupted by the sectaries so no true recordes can be taken out of it for Sir Humfrey his confraternitie And such is that passage which the Inquisitours commanded to be blotted out which is this All most all ancient Fathers condemned images for feare of idolatrie This sentence as false foysted into the foresayd Basilian edition is iustelie cast out as none of the authours doctrine or at the least vehementlie suspected for none of his And touching the doctrine of honour of images it selfe it is cleare that he can aforde no recorde at all for the reformed diuinitie for that he expresselie relateth the vse of images in Churches deduceing it historicallie from the most primatiue tymes Langius or Langus is of no authoritie among the Romanists so he yealdes no recordes of credit And at the best he is but a pedanticall Annotator as I take it a Lutheran that is neither of Sir Humfreys religion nor of ours As for Ferus certaine it is that some of his editions haue ben founde to be mightilie corrupted particularlie that of Mogunce Which the knight citeth so the recordes drawne out of him are of
no authoritie But suppose Cephas did indeed not signifie the head yet what great recorde I praye can that be for Sir Humfreys Church And so whether Cephas signifie the head or the feet whether ridiculum est be in or out of the bookes it auayles him nothing but some smale matter to quarell aboute yet the truth is that the most authenticall edition of Anwerpe 1585. hath the same wordes which Sir Humfreyes cites out of the Roman print in such sorte as one may rather much more suspect those wordes it is ridiculous to be falselie added in the Moguntin edition then detracted in the others Finallie whether the wordes of the Councell of Laodicea be that wee ought not to leaue the Church of God inuocate Angells as Sir Humfrey will haue it also some Catholike copies haue or whether in steed of the worde Angells wee reade angles or corners as some other editions haue the matter is not great so the decree be reight vnderstood that is so that the sense bee this we ought not to leaue the Church of God inuocate Angells superstitiouslie as some did in those tymes For this being the true meaning of the Councell as it appeareth by the subsequent wordes which are those and make congregations of abominable idolatrie to the Angells it is more then plaine that no recorde can there be founde for the doctrine of the reformed Churches But onelie it serues Sir Humfrey to make a plausible florish to the simple reader to the end that by working vpon his weaknesse by falselie taxing his aduersaries hee may make his owne impostures saleable which otherwise would putrifie spoile for want of vtterance Lastelie for proofe of his accusation Sir Humfrey after all this sturre he hath made produceth onelie one witnesse that a false one and altho' for the greater credit of his cause he held it expedient to giue him the decree of a diuinitie reader professor Deane of Louaine yet hauing examined the matter I founde by better information then Sir Humfrey can haue that Boxhorne before his reuolte had onelie the place a certaine of obscure Deanrie which function altho' it be a place of some credit yet it is farre inferiour to the dignitie either of a Deane of a Capitall Church or of a publike professour of diuinitie in the vniuersitie of Louaine both in learning honour profit And yet this man as I receiued by authenticall relation of the Deane of S. Gudula Church in Brussels others after some extraordinary familiarity which out of his ouer amorous nature he vsed to a domestike maide seruant of his owne out of an vnsetlednesse of his lubrik mynde began at first to defend that it was not necessarie for the Preist to prononce the wordes of consecration orally but onelie to speake them mentallie afterwardes as nemo repente fit malus Boxorno once a pettie-master by degrees falling into plaine heresie founde oportunitie to passe into the land of libertie I meane into Holand with bag bagage I meane with his Sacrilegious spouse the sacred spoiles of his Church Where from the place of a fugitiue Pedant he is preferred to the dignitie of a new Euangelist is become a blostering trumpeter in the pulpits of the misreformed congregations And this is the onely man which Sir Humfrey could bring for a witnesse against the practice of the Roman Church in her manner of censuring bookes or correcting the same or approuing them according to the order decree of the Councell of Trent which collapsed Deane being so infamous in his life as by this which I haue specified and more which I could relate doth appeare and being also now a professed enimy and Apostata from his mother Church let the reader iudge whether in reason his testimony ought to be admitted against her and let him withall be pleased to consider that Sir Humfrey in lue of conuincing his aduersaries of ill conscience he hath by his owne bad proceeding in this section conuinced his owne to be the worst of all so is fallē in to the same pit he prepared for his enimies incidit in foueam quam fecit by forgeing of false recordes hath incurred a farre deeper dungeon of cēsure then hitherto he did in which he must remaine either till he hath payde a double fine or put in suretie for the amendment of his manners THE XIII PERIOD IN His fourteeneth section Sir Humfrey indeuoreth to conuince his aduersaries of the defence of a desperate cause by their blasphemous exceptions as he calleth them against the scriptures by which we see that as his booke increaseth in number of leaues so he increaseth in multiplication of his malicious and false accusations and these being the cardes he playeth with let vs examen his gaime He continueth confidently his allegation of his false Deane of Louaine for a witnesse against the Romanists whose worde notwithstanding ought not either in reason or according to the course of lawe to be admitted for recorde against those from whose religion he hath reuolted And so whereas he accuseth the Romā Church of poyson in religion tiranny in the common welth it is to be taken as proceeding from a poysonous minde which being once corrupted hateth the truth as much as an ill stomake loathes dainty meates As for the scriptures it is false slaunderous to affirme that the Romanists refuse to be tryed by them so they be taken together with the authoritie of the Church which the same scriptures commende as Saint Augustin speaketh against his aduersaries and in a true sense without which as one of the auncient Fathers saith verbum Dei male intellectum non est verbum Dei that is the worde of God ill vnderstanded is not the word of God Quamuis certum de scripturis non proferatur exēplum tamē earundem scripturarū à nobis tenetur veritas cum id facimus quod vniuersae placet Ecclesia quam ipsarum scripturarum commēdat authoritas Aug. lib. 1. cōtra Cres c. 33. And according to this not that sacred Bible which was in the Apostles till the dayes of Luther without alteration is as you calumniously affirme ranked by the Inquisitors inter libros prohibitos among the prohibited bookes but your execrated Bible I meane your execrable translations and annotations mutilations of the most holy Bible are those that are registred in the censure where whether it haue as you affirme I knowe not certainely but I am sure it deserueth the first place because as the Philosopher saith corruptio optimi pessima and so as your Bible-corruption is in the highest degree of badnesse so ought it in reason to be ranked in the highest station of such false wares as that Catalogue condemnes And of the censure of your owne abuses I graunt you may with shame enough to your selues be eye witnesses but if you meane you are eye witnesses of the censure of the true scriptures
be fed with this vision but let the mynde reuerence God whoe both giues to his saints a crowne of victorie and to vs the assistance of their intercession And the like he affirmes of honor of saincts a little aboue in this same page Wher althou ' he iustely reserueth the supreame worship of Sacrifice to God a lone yet he expressely grauntes an other inferior honor to Saints and Angels saying Adoretur colatur veneretur a fidelibus Deus c. Let God be adored worshiped or serued and reuerenced by faithfull people let Sacrifice be offered to him a lone either in the mysterie of his bodie and bloud or in the Sacrifice of a contrite and humble harte let Angels or holye men be loued honored with charitie not with seruitude let not Christs bodie be offered vnto them And according to this sense Agobardus speakes throu ' his whole booke particularly in his second leafe wher he reprehendeth certaine idolaters whoe imagined a certaine sanctitie to reside in images saying In which nature these alsoe whoe call images holye are founde not onely Sacrilegious for that they giue diuine worship to the workes of their handes but alsoe foolish in attributing sanctitie to images which haue no life or soule By all which wordes it is cleare that Agobarde onely condemnes the exhibition of such honor to saincts or images as is due to God a lone Which doctrine is soe farre from being anie way contrarie to the honor of images practised in the Roman Church that it doth rather exactely agree with the honor of the Councell of Trent in this particular which in the 25. Session defines that due honor is to be giuen to images not because it should be beleeued that ther is anie diuinitie or virtue in them for which they ar to be worshiped or that anie thing should be craued of them or that confidence or hope should be put in thē as in tymes past the Gentiles did whoe placed their hope in Idols but because the honor which is exhibited vnto them is referred to the prototypes or persons which they represent soe that by the images which we salute or kisse and before which we vncouer our head and prostrate our selues we adore and reuerence Christ and the saints whose representations or similetudes they beare True it is I haue noted in reading his booke that Agobard purposely refuseth to vse these wordes adorare colere adore or serue yet I plainely gather by his whole discourse he doth not soe to signifye ther by that images ar not to be vsed with anie honor at all as I haue alreadie declared by his owne text but onely declineth the vse of those wordes in regarde he takes them in a strict sense as they signifie religion or honor proper to God him self and not due to anie creature and perhaps alsoe because at that tyme as it may seeme by his nicenes and some others of that age the worde adoration was offensiue euen to some whoe otherwise were both Catholique and learned men to say nothing of the common people some of whome peraduentute out of ignorance and weakenes of iudgement euen at this day make danger to vse it and scruple to heare it yet neither the one nor the other omitting to honore images according to the approbation and practise of the Church Wheras yet if it be taken in the sense in which the Roman Church according to the definition of the 7. Synod and custome of diuines accepteth it that is for a kynde of inferior honor distinct from proper latrie and religion and as euen according to the vse of scriptures it signifyes worship common alsoe to creatures then doth it include no manner of scandall or offense at all Cumque introisset in conspectu Regis adorasset eum pro nus in terram c. 3. Reg. 1. 24. And now in that rigorous meaning Agobard takes the worde adoratiō when alledgeing the same wordes of the Eliberitan Councell which Sir Humfrey here researseth he intendeth onely to proue that images ar not to be adored or serued in which passage he proueth nothing against the Roman Catholique honor of images but onely disputeth either against some reliquies of the Antropomorphitan heresie or against some other superstitious and idolatrous adorers of Saints images of those dayes from both which kyndes of errors as Agobardus him self was soe alsoe the Roman Church with her cheefe Pastors and rulers to which he then was a subordinate member and prelate as other of his workes doe witnesse were free and innocent as likewise now they be in this our present age not obstanding the frequent calumniations of our moderne sectaries to the contrarie Finally I adde to this that in the verie conclusion and last period of his booke Agobard expressely teacheth that genuflection is to be made to the name of Iesus which yet our Puritan aduersaries out of their singular puritie or rather pure singularitie reiect as idolatrous not obstanding by Gods commaundement not onely men but deuils alsoe ar enioyned and compelled to bowe their knees at the sounde of that soueraine name And surely he who holdes this for lawfull as Agobardus doth must for the same reasons hold it likewise lawfull to honor the images of Iesus supposing that the name of Iesus being to be honored onely for the representation it hath of him much more lawfully may his image be soe honored in regarde it doth more permanently and ferfectly represent him then doth his name which consists in carracters and a transitorie sounde of letters Besides this Agobardus as the verie first wordes of his booke doe declare doth not directly and professedly treate in it of the honor and vse of images as it is practised in the church but of the sense of the first commaundement in which he includes the prohibition of the adoration of images deliuered by God in the old Testament as a parte of the same onely intending to proue in his whole worke that by virtue of this precept diuine honor is not to be tendered to anie creature but to God alone not to either idoles or images And Therfore in his laste page the same Agobardus expressely speaketh of honor proper to God him self applying to his purpose the wordes of Isaias honorem meum alteri non dabo by all which it is most clearely apparent that what soeuer Agobarde seemes to vtter against the adoration of images is onely spoken against such as attributing ouer much honor vnto them worship thē in an idolatrous or superstitious fashion contrarie to the tradition of Fathers and practise of the Catholique Church as his wordes quoted in my margen sufficiently declare haec est sincera religio hic mos Catholicus haec antiqua patrum traditio c. Agobardus fol. vlt. post authoritates Patr. citatus And soe I leaue him as no enimie to the Catholique cause nor anie fauorer of the disalawers of the same in this particular point how be it the ambiguitie of
is but onelie one in which it can be sayd with anie coulourable probabilitie that sainct Gregorie in anie of the places heere cited doth contradict the doctrine of the Roman Church that is the point of the Canon of the scriptures in which patricular althou ' he refused to giue the bookes of Machabees the title of Canonicall scripture as yet S. Augustine others did before him the rest of the writers for the most parte euer since haue donne whether it were because he ment onelie they were not contained in the Canon of the Iewes or for that the whole Church had not then declared them for Canonicall vnder that name Neuerthelesse he is not to be iudged more repugnant to the doctrine of the present Roman Church in that point then those who notobstanding that in the primitiue Church certaine bookes of the new Testament as the epistle to the Hebrewes others were doubted of yet now with infallible certaintie faith receaue them for diuine sacred scripture althou ' they were not accounted beleiued for such by all the orthodoxall Fathers of the Church in all former ages since the time of the Apostles who firste published them to the world Especiallie considering that the same sainct Gregorie neuer denyed neyther in the place cited nor in anie other of his workes but that as the declaration of the Church was sufficient to assure all faithfull people that those bookes of which before his dayes there had binne doubt were then trulie Canonicall scripture thou ' not knowne for such in euerie age before him so might the same succeeding Church in later times determine the like of those bookes which in his time so generallie vndoubtedlie were not as yet held for such Neyther according to the rules of diuinitie can that man be reputed not to be of the same religion of which another is because he now beleaueth some thing more in the materiall obiect of faith then the other did in that time in which he liued but at the most it can onelie be truelie verified that he hath the same habit of faith thou ' some what more extended in the obiect as neyther the Apostles were of a diuerse faith when they were firste instructed by Christe before his passion from that they had after his resurrection when yet doubtlesse they receaued more expresse extensiue knowledge in matters of faith then before they had receiued And sure I am S. Gregorie without exception cites both the booke of Tobie Ecclesiasticus sapience most frequentlie none of which bookes neuerthelesse the misreformers admit for the worde of God And till Sir Humfrey or some of his associates can produce out of S. Augustin S. Gregorie as plaine pregnant places either for his owne tenets or against the Roman doctrine as the Romanists haue long since produced for theirs as their workes vpon euerie seuerall controuersie make apparent let them for shame neuer claime them for theirs in anie one point of controuersie for notobstanding they make a plausible vse of some fewe patches of their more ambiguous ill construed ill related sentences yet turne but the iudicious vnpartiall reader to the bookes them selues he will ingenuouslie confesse absolutelie crye a loud all is ours And if it would please his maiestie of his royall clemencie to suffer vs freelie to make tryall of our cause by scripture Fathers I knowe which side would be founde minus habens manie graines to light But it is our great miserie yet in one sense our great happines to be so crossed curbed with seueritie of tēporal lawes that we cannot be safe in the most priuate corners much lesse can we appeare in any publike assemblie for defense of our Religion Vid. Bell. in quatuor Cōtr. tom valēt Anales fid But yet supposing that S. Gregorie had binne contrarie in that particular of the bookes of Machabies for touching the rest mentioned by the knight he is sufficientlie cleered from that imputation by Bellarmine other Romanists yet could it not possiblie proue that monstrous great proposition of our aduersarie to wit that S. Gregorie in his vndoubted writings directlie opposeth the Romish faith in the maine pointes thereof consequentlie from hence it manifestlie appeereth how farre Sir Humfrey hath walked by the way when in the end of his eleauenth section he auouched his reader should plainlie discerne how the later Popes Bishops doe differ from the former how these two Fathers of the Church meaning sainct Augustine sainct Gregorie concurre expresselie with the doctrine professed in the reformed Churches different from the Roman it being most apparent by the premisses that by anie thing which he hath heere produced out of the foresayd Fathers he hath neyther proued anie one point of his owne religiō nor disproued ours but hath onelie prestigiouslie deluded the eyes of the reader with a coulorable florish yet in realitie remaineth still in the same byway in which he hath hitherto walked separate from the royall street of the ancient Doctors of the primitiue Church Sec. 14. The next section being the fourteenth is that the ingenuous Romanists confesse that the Councells which they oppose against the Reformers were neyther called by lawfull authoritie nor to the right ends Heere I finde that to be most true which a pleasant Protestant pronounceth of the Puritans sayeing their religion willinglie admitts no founder but Bragger they flourished much about a time And in sober sadnes the best Sir Humfrey can make of his aduersaries confession throu ' out his whole worke in fauour of his doctrine doth nothing more then plainlie conuince him to be of no other progenie Neyther doe their confessions fit his purpose anie better then if he should put his shooes vpon his handes or his hose vpon his head A patterne of this you may see in this verie section in which how soeuer he vaunteth of the confession of his aduersaries that by two principall conditions as he sayth ancientlie in vse for the authoritie of Councells are both acknowledged to be abrogated by later Councells to wit because quoth the knight now a dayes the Pope calls Councells without right he his assemble them in their owne name for their owne ends for proofe of which calumnious position he cites but onely two authors those scarce held for sound mettle among the Romanists neyther yet doth eyther of them plainlie auerre his position as it is vttered by him but they onelie speake by way of reprehension of such abuses as might be practised in that nature by the malice of men without taxing the Pope or anie other in particular as the knight would maliciouslie inferre out of their wordes for the confirmation of the sinister opinion he hath of the Church of Rome her head in earth The rest which he hath in this section is but eyther his owne bare assertions those not true as that from
witts about him to perceaue he intendeth nothing else but to leade his reader into that same by-way which he still laboureth to finish for himself others of his owne profession Sec. 16. In his sixteenth section the knight makes hoat warre against the Councell of Trent after he had in a couning secret manner spit his poyson at diuers other Councells of more ancient standing in the precedent section he singles this out alone as his most professed enimy most seuere censurer of his faultes crimes vsing all his whole forces art to diminish his strength power that not in hugger mugger but in plaine manifest termes affirming the same to be of smale or no credit as being neyther lawfully called nor free nor eyther generall or generally receiued He sayth it was not lawfully called because it was assembled by the Popes vsurped authority not by the Emperour but this being the firste part of he proofe it is both false in it self also left vnproued otherwise then by his naked affirmation Serenissimo etiam Imperatori gratias agere gratulari iure optimo debemus ille de nostris his rebus pro sua eximia pietate sollicitus mirifice fuit Orat. hab ses 9. so it needes no other confutation then denyall how beit so certaine manifest it is that the Emperour consented vn to that Councell approued both the conuocation proceedings of it as much as lay in his power that I am persuaded the sectaries them selues with all their audaciousnesse haue not the face to deny so playne a truth so plainely expressed in the oration had in the last session of the sacred synod in which great thankes ar rendered vnto him for his zeale care therin imployed The second part of the proofe consists of a false supposition that no Councell can be legitimate except it be conuocated by the Emperour but that this is false it is clearer then the day otherwise it would follow that those Councells which were celebrated before there were any Christian Emperour in the world should haue binne vnlaufully called as euen that of the Apostles themselues Act. 15. more if that position of the nouellists were true what truth or authority can the Councells of the pretensiue reformed Churches haue none of which as yet had euer any Emperour of their religion as I hope in God neuer will haue at least since the daies of Luther euen by their owne confessions which pouerty of their poore ragged flock it seemes Sir Humfrey had quite forgotte when he vttered that false maxime of the reformed doctrine Secondly he sayth the Councell of Trent was not free Hi nuncij Aquilon is partes prope omnes peragrarunt rogarunt obsecrarūt obtestati sunt tuta omnia atque amica promiserūt c Orat. vt supra yet he confesseth in this same place that he denieth not but that safe conduct was promised as well to the Lutherans as to the Romanists yet as it seemes like cowardelie dastardes they feared danger timuerunt vbi non erattimor And if they feared where there was no feare in whome I praye was the fault now for freedome of speech in proposing of matters discussing them Sir Humfrey cannot deny if he will stand to the testimony of his owne Dudithius cited by himself who plainly supposeth freedome in that nature in that he affirmes being a Protestant that the feild had binne theirs if they had not binne ouercome by number Thirdly he affirmes that it was not generall but how could it be more generall then by a generall amicable conuocation of all Princes Prelates learned diuines which the Bull of indiction declares And as for the number of those who came vnto it thou ' the knight doth vse all his art for the diminution of it yet was it farre greater then he vouchsafed to recount as the Catalogue prefixed to the Councell doth plainly declare amounting to the number of 255. Acclam Patr in ◅nc Conc. of those who subscribed to the decrees the truth is if more had come more had binne admitted none reiected which euen of it self alone excepting others is a sufficient note of Generallity Fourthly he saith it was not generally receiued but in this he vseth one of his vsuall equiuocations for althou ' in some places as yet it is not receaued in matters of reformation practise as in those places especially in which it hath neuer binne proclamed Neuerthelesse in matters of faith it is generally receaued of all Roman Catholikes wher soeuer they bee farre or neere in Europe Asia or America or other forreigne Countries conuerted to the christian Catholike faith so the reader may see that this saieng of our aduersaries which they perpetually buzze into the eares of the simple people that the Councell of Trent is not generally receaued by the Romanists themselues is meere cousenage imposture malitiously inuented to auert their mindes from the most wholesome doctrine profitable precepts of the same for the generall reformation of the Church which because the false reformers plainly see it trenches to neere vppon their Copyhold they ioyne heauen hell together to infringe its authority And here I aduertise the reader that our aduersarie vseth the relations of Some histories touching the proceeding of the Tridentine Councel which ar not admitted by the Romanists particularly those passages of Thuanus of whome I haue receiued credible information that dying a Roman Catholike he made a general retractation of all such positions or relations as he had publishedlesse aduisedly or any way dissonant to the doctrine or practise of the Roman Church so all such passages as Sir Humfrey produces out of his workes ar esteemed as voyde of force for confirmation of anie parte of his doctrine The rest which Sir Humfrey vttereth in this section is nothing but certaine hereditarie vntruthes impostures which he receaued from Caluin Illiricus Tertium nonnulla atque etiā quartum discussa summa saepe contentione certatum c. Orat. hab ad finem Concil Sleidan the counterfeit historie of the Councell of Trent published in the English tongue in disgrace of that most renowned Synod whose authoritie will they nill they they must suffer vs to honore imbrace obey at the least till such time as they can showe vs one of their owne of the like generallitie grauitie authenticall exacte proceeding which it hath vsed in discussion determination of the most receaued doctrine of former present ages which if they cānot performe then let thē confesse they haue left the cōmon royall way of the anciēt Church fallen into a by-way of parlamentall or pure consistoriall gouernment in matters of faith not heard of in primitiue ages as neyther was their extrauagant forme of Conuenticles trulie generall nationall or prouinciall as appeeres in their Pseudosinods of Gappe
he ponder how slowe the same Sir Humfrey hath binne in the performance of his anser to that challenge then he would instantlie cease to maruell perswading himselfe that the knight hauing better considered of the matter he is resolued vpon a contrarie course as it may now more then probably appeere by the contents of this present section in which he professeth to impugne that same visibilitie which so manie daies monethes yeeres agoe he solemlie auouched to make good viz. the succession of his owne Church I for my part am verie sorrie that the knight hath so altered his designe in regard I haue long since had a vehement desire to haue a sight thou ' it were onelie tanquam per speculum in anigmate as in a perspectiue or astronomicall glasse of those faire faces which haue lien in lauender so manie hundreth yeeres together yet now I perceiue there is no remedie but patience so I will leaue those inordinate desires examine how soundlie the author proceedes in the impugnation of that which according to his promise he ought rather to defend then confute Wherefore to the intent he may seeme to haue sayd some thing to the purpose he stateth the question in another sense thē that in which it is disputed betwixt the Romanists the reformers he putteth the case in a conspicuous eminent visibilitie of the Church in all ages perpetuallie And this visibilitie I graunt diuers of the testimonies which he produceth doe proue not to be necessarie to the true Church Neyther doe I denie that the proofes our aduersarie bringeth if is suppositiō of such a glorious visibilitie were true but this is out of the quire for the question is onelie whither such visibilitie is a certaine note of the true Church as that in all times some at the least true professors of it may be assigned named this kinde of visibilitie of the true Church is not disproued by all or anie one of the testimonies which are heere alleaged by the knight but all of them are in vaine produced But now as he himself doth name Adam Abel Enoch Noe Abraham Lot Tobias Ieremy Simeon Anna Ioseph Marie Elizabeth to which diuers others might be added in euerie seuerall age I say as he could did name these visible professors of the old lawe so doe we demaund of him to shewe name vs in like manner some professors in euery seuerall age before the daies of Luther who haue professed the same religion in all pointes which is now professed in the pretensiuely reformed Churches For this is the true state of the question betwixt ys this is that which we hold for a necessarie note of the true Church as we are readie at all times to performe this yea some of vs haue alreadie performed it long since in proofe of the visibilitie of the Roman Church so doe we expect the like from the defenders of the reformed Church in proofe of the visibilitie of the same And to deale plainlie till Sir Humfrey or some bodie for him performes this taske in this sense what soeuer he or his companions eyther doe or can produce to impugne the visibilitie of our Church we hold it for a meere by-way inuented onelie to auoide that difficultie which absolutelie in their vnderstanding they iudge insuperable impossible to be cleared Sec. 24. In the next section which is the 24. the knight prosecuteth the same matter that is the visibilitie of the Church in the new testament but he walkes quite out of the true way from the beginning to the ending He pretends to shewe that the Church hath not binne conspicuouslie visible but latent obscure in all ages yet to demonstrate this he produceth nothing but such testimonies as proue there haue binne euer manie heresies scismes persecutions people of ill life which haue so much darkened the splēdor of the true Church that it was sometimes vnder cloudes mistes prouing with a multitude of testimonies with great ostentation that which we Romanists doe not denie nay we all ingenuouslie confesse that the true Church must not of necessitie be alwayes eminentlie flowrishinglie visible yet neuer so obscure couered which cloudes but that the professors of it may be found named euen in the middest of her greatest mists for we say with sainct Ambrose Li. 4. Hex cap. 2. videtur sicut luna deficere sed non deficit She seemes to faile like the moone but she doth not faile obumbrari potest perire non potest she may be obscured but she cannot perish so that in this section Sir Humfrey in steed of an egge giues vs a Scorpion in lieu of prouing the Church to haue binne so obscure latent that none of her members can be found named he onelie or cheeflie produceth the errors heresies of those who did most impugne obscure her In so much as both those who were called those who where chosen by Christ did erre grieuously both in manners doctrine c. By-way page 611. nay it seemes his passion did so much transport him that rather then faile of his purpose of impugning the absolute visibilitie of the Church in all ages he layeth violent hands euen vpon the holie Apostles accusing then that they erred both in doctrine manners as in his 611. page the reader may see in plaine termes to omit that all or most of the authors which he cites are eyther of his owne profession obtruded in among the Romanists as for example Morney Erasmus Cassander other suppositious writers or else such pious Catholikes as out of their zeale haue iustlie reprehended the priuate errors abuses of particular persons thou ' in generall termes as the custome is which haue in seuerall ages like darnell among corne sprung vp in the feild of the visible Church this being the substance of the contents of this section I remitte it to the reader to iudge whether the knight hath not runne an extrauagant by course for the building of this parcell of his by way Sect. 25. In the 25. section vpon a supposition of the declination of faith manners in the Roman Church which he falsely supposeth as proued in his former section our aduersarie proceedes to an application of certaine places of scripture to the same supposed declination of the Pope Church but so ridiculously corruptedly that on the one side a man of iudgment that reades it will hardly absteine from laughter But on the contrarie he will be sorie to see the diuine word of God so profaned abused especiallie by those who so much bragg of the scriptures that they will scarce voutsafe to read anie other booke but pure Bible And to the end the knights counterfeit proceeding in this particular may appeere I will reherse one instance or two that by them the reader may consider of the rest Page 670. how comes it
the same yet that is not truly the Iesuites challendge but that you produce some which haue professed your religion in euery point in euery age before the daies of Luther This is the charge you haue vndertaken till you haue discharged your selfe of this your honor still remaines at the stake for all your bragges your safe way is to the Romanists all other of mature iudgment but onely a by-way serueth onely for a cowardly excuse of your want of abillitie to performe your promise But now to returne to the contents of this section in particular from which I haue in some sort digressed I say it consists onely in a recapitulation of those seuerall pointes of controuersie which I haue alreadie examined in confirmation of which since the author hath produced nothing which I haue not sufficiently confuted conuinced to be of no force but all eyther false equiuocall or impertinent it is most apparent that what soeuer he from hence collecteth by way of conclusion is noe conclusion nor of any more authority then his owne bare affirmations or negations consequently notobstanding the vaine knight will needes seeme to haue the victorie to haue gained his cause yet I make no doubt but that the prudent reader will rather iudge in fauour of the anserer then of the abiector especially considering how farre more easie a matter it is for any man to impugne the doctrine of another then to defend his owne Wherfore I ioyne issue with myne aduersaries opposing the doctrine of the Roman Church to those same positions of the pretended reformed Churches which the knight hath heere sett downe applying the same to the safe way by-way as he hath donne by-way of antithesis or oppositiue comparison betwixt them both in the manner followeing And firste I say The Romanists teach that not scripture onely but scripture with diuine Apostolicall traditions receaued for such by the vniuersall Church in all ages the approued generall Councells the infallible authority of the perpetually visible Church of God are the onely certaine meanes safe way to saluation But Sir Humfrey with his complices teach that scripture onely interpreted otherwise them by authoritie of the most vniuersallie florishing Church according to perpetual tradition of the Fathers doctors of the same is sufficient to saluation this is a doubtfull by way Secondly the Romanists teach that the scriptures are a most certaine a most safe perfect rule of faith yet in some places obscure ambiguous as euen some of their aduersaryes confesse therfore it is not sufficient alone but requires the authority of the true Church commended in the same scripture as an infallible interpreter this is a safe way to saluation but the Reformers teach that the scripture with the interpretation conference of one place with another by euerie priuate man or woman that can but reade it is a sure euident perfect rule of faith this is an vncertaine by-way Thirdly the Romanists teach that traditions appertayning to faith or manners receaued from Christe by his Apostles or from the Apostles themselues by inspiration of the holie Ghost as such conserued in the Church by continuall succession are to be imbraced reuerenced with like pious affection as the scriptures this is a safe way to saluation but the reformers teach that onelie those traditions concerning faith manners that can be proued by scriptures of which sort they denie anie to be in the Church notobstanding sainct Paul in the scripture expresselie commandeth the Thessalonians to hold his traditions deliuered vnto them by word of mouth or by epistle And this is an vncertaine by way Fourthly the Romanists teach that the vniforme consent of vndoubted Fathers is to be followed in the interpretation of scriptures some certaine persons in the Church as professors of diuinitie some others for the auoyding of noueltie in doctrine take an oath of the same moreouer that where they finde that consent they are to receaue it as a certaine rule for the true expounding of the scriptures without contradiction or inuention of other new sense or glosses this is a safe way to saluation but the reformers teach that the vniforme consent of vndoubted Fathers is to be followed onelie so farre as according to their priuate spirit or iudgment they agree with scriptures which is a captious deceitfull rule of expounding them And this is an vncertaine by-way Fiftly the Romanists teach that the Christian Catholike Church is a congregation or companie of people beleiuing professing the true faith of Christe vnder one cheife head our Sauiour Iesus Christe his vicar in earth the Pope or Bishop of Rome as cheife Pastor visible gouernour of the same vnder Christe sayeing with all that the notes whereby the true Church is knowne from all other hereticall scismaticall conuenticles are not onelie cheiflie exteriour splendour amplitude miracles as our aduersarie doth deceitfullie insinuate but principallie the name Catholike antiquitie continuall succession c. And this is a certaine safe way but the reformers teach the Church is a Congregation of pastours people with out anie certaine infallible authoritie assigning for markes of the same that which is common to all congregations euen of heretikes schismatikes according to their seuerall opinions as all euerie one of them holding they haue the true word Sacraments rightlie preached administred in their conuenticles which consequently can be no certaine markes of the true Church in particular no more then the name of a Christian in generall can be an infallible note of a true beleiuer this is an vncertaine by-way Sixtly the Romanists teach that General Councells by the Popes authoritie or approbation conuocated confirmed are not onelie of great vse in the Church But also of certaine infallible power for the determination of all doubts controuersies in religion which may arise in seuerall times occasions this is a certaine safe way But the Reformers teach that General Councells althou ' they say they be of great vse authority in the Church to determine controuersies in religion yet they hold them of vncertaine authoritie subiect to errour both in faith manners this is an vncertaine by-way Seauenthly the Romanists teach that the cheife rock angular stone vpon which the Church is built is Christe the Sauiour of the world yet they say with Christe himselfe that Peter is also in his kinde a rock vpon which he promised to build his Church this is a certaine safe way But the reformers teach that Christe alone is the onelie rock vpon which he built his Church which is repugnant to the expresse wordes of Christe in the scripture sayeing to Peter vpon this rocke will I build my Church this is a diuerticle or by-way Eightly the Romanists teach that the
operation effect of the Sacraments depend cheiflie principallie vpon the institution of Christe yet they say withall that both for the securitie of the consciences comfort of the receauers c. The Preist must haue a sincere intention to minister the Sacrament not in ieast as Luther some other sectaries doe teach this is a certaine safe way to saluation But the Reformers teach that onelie the instistitution of Christe is sufficient the Preists sincere intention not required this is an vncertaine by-way Nintly the Romanists teach that Christe is our onelie mediatour of redemption who onelie of himself by his owne power knoweth the secrets of our hartes yet withall they say that his Saintes in heauen who in by him doe assuredlie knowe the secrets of our hartes in such things especiallie as cōcerne the good of our soules are our mediatours of intercession by offering our vnworthie prayers to God this is a certaintie safe way to saluation But the reformers calle vpon Christe onelie exclude neglect his saintes seruants whome neuerthelesse he himselfe doth promise to honore in heauen condemning also for impious sacrilegions the saintes intercession for sinners which notwithstanding he doth not condemne for such in anie parte of holie scripture this is an vncertaine by-way Tenthly the Romanists teach we ought to adore Christes bodie present in heauen where he sits on the right hand of his diuine Father yet withall they say it is lawfull yea we ought to adore him whersoeuer he is particularlie in the blessed Sacrament of the Eucharist this is a certaine safe way to saluation But the reformers teach that the bodie of Christe ought not to be adored in the Eucharist but onelie in heauen this is an vncertaine by-way Eleauenthly the Romanists as the word of God instructs them confesse themselues to be vnprofitable seruants in regarde neyther they nor their actions bring anie profitte to God who hath no need of anie thing yet they say withall that no man liuing can be iustified by his owne merits that is such merites as proceed purelie from his owne naturall forces actions more then this that all those who expect saluation must beleiue in Christe with a liuelie faith wholely relie vpon his meritts satisfaction as vpon the proper principall cause of their saluation yet they say besides this that altho' they may not relie vpon their owne merits or the satisfactions of the saintes alone neuerthelesse they may vse both the satisfaction of saintes their owne merits as a meanes to saluation by virtue application of the merits satisfaction of Christes passion also that they can by the grace assistance of God obserue his commandements yea by virtue of the same diuine grace performe some workes of supererogation or not commanded by precept of God but counselled by his aduise this is a certaine safe way to saluation But the reformers teach they are vnprofitable seruants which I confesse that in deed they are both to God his Church as euer were anie in the world that no mans good workes altho' they proceed from the speciall grace of God can in anie sort iustifie him before God that euerie Christian must so wholie relie vpon the merites of Christe that he beleiue also that no man can haue anie of his owne euen by the power grace of God that he is bound to expect hope for saluation without anie such workes or merites meerlie by a sole bare faith that his sinnes are remitted in Iesus Christe this is an vncertaine by-way Heere you see a plaine confrontment of diuers particular pointes of controuersie betwixt the Romanists the reformers by way of affirmation negation because I knowe that my aduersarie I are not agreed of a Iudge of our cause I for for my part remit my selfe to the indifferent reader as our onelie vmpiere to determine of the matter not onelie for as much as concernes the contents of this particular section but also of the whole worke who if he consider with due ponderation the proceedings of both parties compare the sincere plaine dealing which I haue vsed with the insincere and double dealing of my aduersarie who hath so perseuered in his indirect courses that euen in the end conclusion of his worke he hath practised no smale partiallitie and fraude in the rehearsall of the doctrine of the Roman Church as particularlie where he affirmes that the Romanists teach that diuers traditions of faith and manners whereof there is no ground nor euidence in the scripture are to be reeeaued with equall reuerence and respect with the scriptures themselues and that they relie partelie vpon their owne merites and satisfaction of Saintes for their saluation and the like I say if the iudicious and vnpartiall reader duelie ponder all the particulars I doubt not but he will easilie discerne the house of truth and safe way to saluation to be where he findes honestie and plainenes and in the contrarie the house of falsitie the by-way where he findes tricks cousinage And therfore the more to facilitate rectifie his iudgment in the businesse I will reduce the whole argument of the knightes booke to a forme of sylogisme in this manner That Religion is a by-way leading the weake vnstable into dangerous pathes of error which is founded vppon coulourable showes of Apochriphall scriptures vnwriten traditious doubt full Fathers ambiguous Councells and pretended Catholique Church But the religion of the Church of Rome is founded vppon colourable showes of apochriphal scriptures vnwritten traditions doubtful fathers ambiguous Councels pretended Catholique Church Therfore the relgiō of the Romā Church is a by-way leading the weake vnstable in to the dangerous pathes of error Now the minor of this sylogisme in which the whole force of the conclusion and by consequence the whole scope and authoritie of the worke depēdes not onely hauing binne in the discourse of my anseere to euerie seuerall section disproued for false counterfeit but alsoe more appeare to be such ex ipsis terminis euen of it selfe by the termes propositions of which it consists to all such as shall consider it with due attention I persuade my selfe the iuditious reader will presently perceaue determine with him selfe that the author of the worke hath quite fayled of his proiect that by composing a by path with a sinister intention to father it Falsely vppon his aduersaryes he hath in stead of that onely framed an ingen for his owne torment And thus hauing attayned not onely to an accomplishment of myne owne desires in finishing my labours but also in some sorte to a satisfaction of the request of my aduersary in regard that at the least in showe as I perceaue by the conclusion of his preface he desireth nothing more then
had an implicit faith of all those obiects which they nowe confesse them selues to beleeue according to that deductiue manner or else they had noe faith at all of them before they were deduced whence it farther followes that euer since they made their foresaid illations or consequences their faith is newe and quyte distinct from their owne faith in former tymes the absurditie of which most necessarie sequele I remit to the censure of the reasonable and iudicious learned reader to determine By occasion of this I desire the reader to take yet more cleare notice of the great peruersitie of the proposterous Nouellists who as they reueile their violēce in reprouing the foresaid receiued doctrine of implicit or inexpressed faith soe likewise they ar no lesse peremptorie in defending their owne newe distinction of fundamental and not fundamental points in Religion according to which their position they obstinately maintaine the Church can erre in matters of faith that is in such points of faith as in their conceite ar not foundamentall But against the falsitie of this distinction I argue first vpon their owne supposed principle to wit that nothing is to be beleeued in matters of faith which is not founde in scripture either explicitly and clearely or by cleare and certaine consequence wherfore this doctrinal distinctiō of theirs being a matter of faith and yet not founde in scripture in either of those two manners related plaine it is that according to the pretended reformers doctrine it neither deserues faith nor credit More ouer this distinction is soe newely coyned by our aduersaries and soe farre from hauing anie foundation either in scripture or ancient doctors that I neuer read anie mention of it in the first and cheefe establishers of the pretended reformatiō Onely Chamier who is in deed a violent defender of Caluinisme in his booke de natura Ecclesiae Cap. 13. num 11. seemes plainely to suppose the same distinction in substance affirming that the Catholique Church can erre licet non in fundamento salutis tho' not in the foundation of saluation Yet Chamier haueing writ his Panstratia but of late yeares either our English Nouellists receiued it from him or inuented it them selues not long before soe that the noueltie of it a lone were sufficient to conuince it of vntrueth and vanitie And altho' I might iustely take exceptions at the worde it selfe for the newnesse of it according to the Apostles counsel to Timomothie to auoyde profane nouelties of wordes in regarde the worde not fundamentals as it is applyed to matters of faith and thee errors of the Church ther in by our aduersaries it is a kynde of profanation both of diuine faith it selfe which is truely fundamental in al respects and also of the authoritie of the Church which likewise is infallible as much in one matter as an other Neuerthelesse my cheefe intention is not to insiste in the reproofe of wordes which I graunt may vpon occasion and for better declaration of a trueth be inuented and vsed by the Churches authoritie but I onely stande vpon the sense or obiect of them directely conuinceing the matter signifyed by those wordes not fundamental in faith to be repugnant both to scripture and Fathers That which I proue by a seconde argument of the same nature to wit because the scripture expressely teaches that 1. Tim. 3. Ecclesia est the Church is a pallar or firmament of truth And our Sauior promisseth his Father will giue to his Apostles and their successors an other Paraclete the spirit of trueth to remaine with them for euer Ioan. 14. Ioan. 16. which same diuine Spirit as he him selfe declares afterwardes in the 16. chapter will teache them all trueth which vniuersal terme all includes and signifyes both fundamental and not fundamental truethes and consequently it expressely excludeth this vaine distinction of the nouellists To which purpose S. Cyrill vpon the 10. chapter of the same Euangelist speakes most fittly and appositly saying that althou ' in this life we knowe onely in parte as S. Paule affirmes non manca tamen sed integra veritas in hac parua cognitione nobis refulsit yet not a meamed or imperfect but an intyre true faith shined vnto vs in this smale knowledge And the place now cited out of the first to Tim. 3. is by all interpreters of scripture both ancient and moderne expounded of the firmenes and stabilitie which the Church hath by the assistance of the holie Goste in her deliuerie of true doctrine to her particular members conformable to which sense Tertullian to omit the rest for breuitie in the 28. of his prescriptions hath a most fine sentence as it were in derision of those who teach the vniuersal or Catholique Churche can erre in matters of faith Could not saith hee the holie Goste haue respected her soe much as to haue induced her into all truth he hauing ben sent by Christ to this ende hauing ben requyred by his Father to be the Doctor of trueth should villicus Christi vicarius the stewarde the vicar of Christ haue neglected the office of God suffering the Churches in the meane tyme to vnderstande and beleeue otherwise then he him selfe preached by the Apostles Thus plainely generally absolutely ancient Tertullian of the infallibilitie of the Catholique Churche in points of doctrine and faith And nowe farther supposing that al these passages both of the scripture their expositors ar absolute general sans limitation it is most apparent they can admit no such distinction in their true sense interpretation but that at the leaste the catholique Churche can not teache or beleeue anie error at all in such things as ar contained within the total obiect of faith in which ther can not possible be anie parte or partial which is not fundamental by reason that all kinde of diuine faith is the verie foundation of Religion christian iustice according to the saying of S. Augustin Domus Dei fide fundatur the house of God is founded in faith if the foundation of the house of God were faultie it would doubtlesse fall to ruine contrarie to his owne promisse or affiirmation viz. That the gates of hell shal not preuaile against it Neither is it auaileable for our aduersaries to saye that the Church can not erre in the cheefe articles of her faith as ar the Trinitie the Incarnation of Christ which ar fundamentals but in such points as ar not fundamental as ar the reall presence iustification the true quantitie sense of Canonical scriptures other such like matters in controuersie with vs them the Church may teache erroneous false doctrine For thir euasion I replie it is grounded not in inuincible but in vincible grosse ignorance of the nature of true faith which being in it selfe one simple or single entitie or essence as according to the doctrine of the Apostle God Baptisme ar Vna fides vnum Baptisma vnus Deus how different soeuer its obiect be
make anie question of it in this nature For supposing their extraordinarie affection that way and that single life is so vnsauourie to them that if it lay in their power they would rather suffer the whole quire of virgins to perish then they would make a religious vowe of perpetuall chastitie or liue without a woman supposing this I say in my opinion they ought in all reason sooner to haue honoured matrimonie with the title of a Sacrament then to haue quite depriued it of that which the scripture it selfe doth giue it Yet supposing they be so preposterous that they will rather impugne that which they otherwise loue best then seeme to agree to the Romane doctrine I tell them all and particularilie him with whome I dispute that although mariage was by God himselfe onelie ordayned in paradise as a ciuill contract Neuerthelesse Christe who came not to dissolue the lawe but to eleuate it to a higher degree of perfection amongst other things he pleased to honore the same with the true nature and properties of a Sacrament giuing also tho' not immediatlie by himselfe yet by his Apostle S. Paul the verie name and title of a Sacrament whereas notwithstanding neyther he himselfe nor anie of his Apostles or Euangelists euer gaue that name to anie of the rest of the Sacraments Wherefore to come nearer to the purpose I say that the institution of this Sacrament was by Christe himselfe who in the 19. chapter of S. Mathewe ordayned the coniunction of man wife to be inseperable to the end it so might be a sacred signe of the indissoluble coniunction of Christe and his Church as it is declared by the Apostle Ephes 5. where he expreslie giueth it the name of a great Sacrament in regard of the sacred coniunction partelie by the hypostaticall vnion and partelie by the vnion of charitie betwixt Christe and his spouse the Church which it signifieth Which foresaid coniunction of man and wife explicated by words of the present tense is the element and Christs ordinance and application of the same to the foresaid signification is the institution by virtue of which it also conferreth grace to the receiuers to the end they may liue in that perpetuall vnion of mindes which is required to the representation of the inseperable vnion of Christe and his Church which is all and more then our aduersarie himselfe demaunded of vs before in this particular matter To which if we adde the authoritie of the Church and auncient fathers for the interptetation of those scriptures which we haue produced for proofe of the truth of this and the rest of the foresaid fiue Sacraments which authorities of the fathers if need required and the place did serue for them I could easilie produce it would yet more plainelie appeere with how little reason the pretensiue reformed Congregations doe exclude them out of the number of true and proper Sacraments And so now according to this a verie easie answere may be framed to all that which the knight bringeth against the septenarie number of Sacraments in the rest of this paragraph and particularilie to the testimonies of those Romane authours and Fathers which he produceth in fauour of his cause And first touching the Fathers which hee citeth besides that which hath binne alreadie spoken I further adde that there was not one of them which was of the reformers opinion in this matter as is most apparent in that Sir Humfrey himselfe could not produce so much as one Father that auerreth the onelie duall number of Sacraments Nay they are so farre ftom this that there is not one of them who doth not in one place or other make expresse mention of more then two if professedlie they make mention of anie at all Secondlie I say that as the reformers cannot with anie probabilitie inferre out of those Fathers who affirmed that the two Sacraments Baptisme and the Eucharist haue flowed out of the side of Christe that there are no more nor lesse then two so neyther can they in anie sort thence inferre that the same Fathers taught not the septenarie number of Sacraments And more then this if the reformers stand vpon this so much that the Fathers by the bloud which issued out of our Sauiours side vnderstood the Sacrament of the bloud of Christe then they must consequentlie eyther confesse that the same Fathers held the reall presence of the bloude of Christe in the Eucharist which yet they themselues denie or else at the least that the reformed Churches haue no true Sacrament at all for that according to their confession there is in it neyther bloud nor bone And out of this generall answere to the testimonies of the auncient Fathers we may inferre how falselie Sir Humfrey in the end of his 149. page affirmeth that they did insist sometimes in the number of two and so restrayned the Church to the definite number of two onelie which saying of his is a manifest falsitie and iniurious to those Fathers whome he so chargeth as that which I haue produced out of S. Augustine in this period doth plainelie conuince in these fiue Sacraments which the reformers denie Neyther was he able to produce one testimonie out of anie of them for proofe of his fayned position but so leaueth it vnconfirmed more then with that fame vntruth by which he belyeth most impudentlie the foresaid Fathers all at a clappe Neyther hath that which he further addeth of the same Fathers in the next page anie greater truth or foundation then this where he sayth that had the Fathers beleeued that those fiue Sacraments had binne instituted by Christe they would of necessitie haue concluded them for true and proper Sacraments and haue easilie found in them the number of seuen Thus in effect Sir Humfrey discourseth to which I answere first that doubtles if the Fathers had had but halfe the occasion which the Church hath had since their time and especiallie since the foundation of the reformed Churches they would of necessitie haue treated and spoken expresselie of the septenarie number and haue distinguished as now the Church and diuines doe betwixt proper and improper Sacraments But the occasion fayling they neyther had necessitie nor conueniencie to speake otherwise of them then they haue donne Nay some of them especiallie those who writ against the Gentiles were rather obliged by the course of those times not to mention the secret misteries of our faith at all then to reueale them to the profaners of them more then was preciselie necessarie for the answere of their obiections Vid. Theodoret Dial. 2. which indeed is the true reason why diuerse of the foresaid more auncient Fathers haue spoken so obscurelie and sparinglie euen of some of the cheife misteries of Christian Religion Secondlie I say that howsoeuer the auncient Fathers spoke of the expresse number of the Sacraments certaine it is they eyther expreslie taught or at the least supposed for certaine doctrine of faith that all those which
the Romane Church now holdeth for true and proper Sacraments doe giue diuine grace to the receiuers as it is apparent out of those places which I cited before out of Saint Augustine for the proofe of euerie seuerall Sacrament and their seuerall effects and consequentlie they held implicitelie at the least and if either necessitie or iuste occasion had required they would haue concluded expresselie the septenarie number of Sacraments and that they were instituted by Christe for such truely and properly And now for the more moderne diuines who wrote since the time of P. Lumbard of which Sir Humfrey citeth to the number of twelue or thirteene there is not one of them who holdeth onely two proper Sacraments as the reformers doe nay there is not one of them that doth not expreslie defende the septenarie number of true and proper Sacraments excepting perhaps Alexander Hales and Durand may seeme to opinate otherwise to the incircūspect reader of which two authours neuerthelesse I say first that Hales doth not denie all those seauen nor anie one of them in particular which the Romane Church defendes to be trulie and properlie Sacraments but he onely is of opinion that onelie fower of them are to be called Sacraments of the new lawe for that as he imagined the other three to wit Pennance Order and Matrimonie had their beginning before True it is Hales cannot be excused from errour in that he affirmeth Confirmation to haue binne instituted by the Councell of Melda except he meaneth onelie that there it was declared to be properlie a Sacrament as I am persuaded he doth but neuerthelesse supposing this his singular opinion yet notwithstanding it being with all certayne that he holdeth the same Sacrament to be one of the seauen no lesse then he doth Pennance which yet he held as it seemeth to some later writers to haue binne instituted by the Apostles Iuxta numerum malorum spiritualiū debet sumi numerus Sacramētorum septem sunt differentiae morborū Hal. 4. part q. 8. mem 7. act 2. notwithstanding all this I say he is impertinentlie alleaged by the knight as an impugner of the Romane doctrine in the septenarie number of Sacraments which notwithstanding his other allucinations he as expresselie maintaines as other diuines doe as his owne wordes plainelie testifie saying thus in his 4. parte and eight question According to the number of spirituall diseases the number of Sacraments is to be taken there are seauen differences of diseases What therefore can be more manithē that this authour tought the compleat number of seuen Sacraments And as for Durand certaine it is that he doth not denie Matrimonie to be a Sacrament absolutelie as the reformers doe but he at the most onely affirmeth that it is not properly and vniuocallie a Sacrament conferring grace in the same manner the other six doe which opinion of his altho' as it sounds it can not stand firme with the doctrine of the Church yet this not our question and in case it were yet is there no reason why one mans priuate tenet nay nor the priuate tenet or errour of more then one or two should preiudicate the common doctrine of the Church both before and after him nor diminish her antiquitie and vniuersalitie in anie point of doctrine especiallie where there is no obstinacie in the authour as in these there was not neyther can the aduersaries drawe anie argument of force against the same in anie case out of one onelie authour or more if more there were contrarie to the torrent of all the rest To omit that as vasques noteth the same Durand in the same place expreslie affirmeth that it is an heresie to denie that Matrimonie is a Sacrament which doubtlesse is a cōcluding argumēt that when Durād affirmed Matrimonie not to be vniuocallie or iuste as the rest be a Sacramēt he did not absolutely deny it to be one of those seuē which the church did both then hold now houldeth to betrue Sacramēts but at the most he onely denied the truth propertie of it in that strict vniuocall manner of conferring iustificāt grace as he and other diuines affirme of the rest which being so then cannot the Reformers haue anie colour to alledge this testimonie either against the absolute truth of that Sacrament or against the Septenarie number of it with the other Nay more then this hauing now exactelie examined the matter I finde that Durand besides that he expresselie defendes the total number of seuen Sacraments disputing seuerallie of the nature of euerie one of them he doth in particular affirme of Matrimonie euen in his resolution or direct anser to the question absolutelie that it is a Sacrament and puts it in the last place for one of the seuen And these are his wordes in their seuerall places noted in the margent Tenendū est absolute quod matrimonium est Sacramētum Quia hoc determinauit Eccle. in 4. d. 26. q. 3. Et ita sunt invniuerso septē Sacramenta Idem d. 2. q. 2. n. 6. To which if we adde that which Capreolus doth testifie of the same durand all doubt of his true meaning in this point will quite vanish away Coactus fuit in vltimo opere cautius loqui vt scilicet confiteretur matrimonium esse vere proprie Sacramētum sed non vniuoce cum alijs nouae legis Sacramentis c. Capreolus in 4. sent d. 26. q. 1. §. For Capreolus saith that in his last worke or edition he was constrained to speake more cautelously soe that he confessed matoimonie to be truely and properly a Sacrament but not vniuocally By which and that also which I haue said before touching Alexander Hales the learned reader may perceiue that both the one and the other are against truth and reason alledged against the septenarie number of Sacraments and against the vniuersalitie of the doctrine of the Roman Church in that point supposing they differ not from the rest of the Romanists as their owne wordes witnesse Except it be in the manner of defending that same number yet both agreeing in the substance of the Controuersie here proposed by the knight our aduersarie Quantum ad tertium durandi and absolutelie affirming that there are truelie seuen Sacraments in the Catholike Church Moreouer in the citation of the other moderne diuines Sir Humfrey vseth much fraud and cosenage and remitting the rest till afterwardes which I will examen in their due places as they are quoted by the knight I will first produce those two whose bookes I had at the first and both of whome he egregiouslie abuseth Bellarmin is corrupted by him in three seuerall places cited in this one paragraph And first he is corrupted in his Second booke of the effect of Sacraments chap 24. where the Cardinall saying onelie that the aduersaries ought not to require of the Romanists that they shewe the name of the Septenarie number of the Sacraments either out of scripture or
esse quia regitur Spiritis Sancto Syluester in sum verbo Indult Bell de Indul l. 2. c. 1. Lastely touching Bellarmine Valētia I saye they are neyther of them cited by Sir Humfrey either with any great sinceretie or to any great purpose For altho' Bellarmin doth insinuate that there are not manie of the more auncient authors which make mention of Indulgences yet he doth not affirme that there is want of antiquitie consent in the Fathers in this matter as Sir Humfrey doth falselie deduce out of his wordes but onelie insinuateth that the defect of number of the more auncient Fathers which mention Indulgēces is sufficientlie supplyed by the vse custome of the Church without writing by reason saith he that manie things are retayned in the Church by that meanes onelie And as for Valentia who as he is cited by the knight relates out of S. Thomas the opinion of some who called Indulgences a pious fraude to allure men to the performance of those pious workes which are requyred in the forme of the Indulgence graunted it is true there was such a tenet in those dayes but as it is true that S. Thomas relates it so is it also true that he condēnes the same for verie dangerous that which our aduersarie if he had dealt honestlie ought not to haue omitted And yet not obstanding he could not but see that position censured by S. Thomas in the verie place cited by Valentia as also he censureth another little better to wit that by virtue of the Indulgence itselfe no punishment neither in the iudgement of God nor the Church could be remitted notwithstanding all this I saye yet Sir Humfrey subtillie let it passe making by that meanes his reader beleeue that the foresaid tenet was long before the dayes or Luther according to the relation of Aquinas as he saith an vncondemned opinion of some diuines reiected as erroneous by Valentia alone who neuerthelesse expresselie affirmeth it to haue beene an opinion hised at by all Orthodox writers opinio ab Orthodoxis omnibus explosa Nay which is yet more grosse Sir Humfrey leaueth quite out some parte of the wordes of the foresaid opinion as it is rehearsed by Valentia to wit those which mention satisfaction made to God by reason of the deuotion of the gainer of the Indulgence value of the pious workes in ioyned him for the obtaining of the same all which because it sounded contrarie to the doctrine of the pretensiue reformed Churches it struct Sir Humfrey deafe one that eare so he left it out I omit diuers particulars which our aduersarie vtters here there in the progresse of his Paragraffe Because they either consiste of some inauthenticall relations aboute the vse or rather aboute the abuse of some particular graunts of Indulgences as that out of the office of Saram out of Guitcherdin or els they cōsiste in his owne plaine calūnious vntruthes as that Indulgences are graunted onelie to drawe money frome the grainers that the Romanists pretēd vniuersalitie of Fathers for euerie point of faith that the article of Indulgences wantes authoritie of scripture of all this I saye I need to make no further discussion in regarde the apparent falsitie of it doth sufficientlie confute it selfe shewes that it proceeds rather frome a man malitiouslie affected ignorant of the state of the question more disposed to cauille then carefull to attaine to the truth of the doctrine For suppose the abuses were neuer so true which as in all other things so in this I confesse there haue ben some especiallie in the questors or inferior administrators of Indulgences may be more neuerthelesse these abuses of particular men doe not impeach the power authoritie lawfull vse of the same which onelie is that which my aduersarie I haue now in question And so now for conclusion of this matter we may hence inferre how impiouslie the sectaries proceed in the denyall impugnation of the Indulgences vsed in the Roman Church which altho' they had no other vtilitie or profit in them then to induce people to the exercise of such pious workes as are requyred in the tenor of them that is fasting prayer almes so heighly commended in the scriptures receiuing of the Sacraments yet in common reason ought they not to be reiected but rather maintained sought for with great zeale deuotion And so now let this suffice for the intyre discussion of this paragraffe in which I haue founde nothing to the excuse the author frome the same censure I haue layd vpon him in the precedent matters THE IX PERIOD VVE are now come to the 10. section of the booke in which Sir Humfrey produceth the testimonies of the Romanists touching the infallible certaintie of the Protestant faith the vncertaintie of the Romish this is his designe but I ame verily persuaded he will fayle of his purpose I will examen particulars that the truth may appeare But before this I must aduertise the reader that in this section ther is litle substance to be founde it consists cheefly in a large recapitulation of the supposed confessions of the Romanists as that they haue confessed that iustificatiō is by faith onely that the conuersion of the bread in to Christs bodie was not generally receiued by the Fathers that the certaine definite number of Sacraments was vnknowne to scripture Fathers that the Indulgences now vsed haue no authoritie from scripture or Fathers the like all which particulars we haue allreadie disproued in their seuerall places In substance a great parte of it is but an idle repetition of those falsities which the kingh hath vttered before with some newe additions to make the number of his lyes more ample complete this he performeth with great abundance of wordes of amplification thinking to make all sure calleth to witnesse both men Angels And thus for space of a leafe or two he bringeth nothing but verbal discourses which with the very breath of any iudicious reader presently vanish away so they need no other confutation Afterwardes he comes to some particulars which I haue not yet touched of these I will make a breefe examen And to omitte those points which I haue before discussed in his page 242. he indeuoreth to proue out of Bellarmin that the Church of Rome hath ouerthrowne in one tenet all certaintie of true faith he performeth it very solidly because for sooth Bellarmin affirmeth that none can be certaine by certaintie of faith that he receiueth a Sacrament by reason of the vncertainty of the intention of the minister without which the Sacrament can not be made And the argument the kinght framed of the doctrine of the Cardinall is this It is a positiue grounde of the Romā Religiō that a Sacrament can not be made without the intention of the minister but the intentiō of the minister can not be knowne by faith
therfore the Church of Rome hath ouerthrowne in one tenet all certaintie of true faith I ansere first that altho' this is the forme which Sir Hūfreys argument must be reduced vnto if anie it cā haue neuerthelesse if we should examen it according to the rules of logique ther will scarcely be founde either forme or figure in it yet least the knight should hould himselfe too rigorously delt with as not making profession of that arte I am content to let that passe and answere secondly that I graunt the maior in this sense viz. That whensoeuer the Preist doth administer a Sacrament it is required that he intends at the least in generall to doe that which the true Church vseth to doe in that action I meane either formally or virtually this is defined by the Councell of Trent as a certaine trueth But in the minor there lyeth secretly a certaine false supposition which is this That to the faith of a Sacramēt is necessarilie required that the intention of the minister in particular cases be knowne by faith which is not true nor defined by the Councell because to the faith of a Sacrament is sufficient that faith by which a Christian beleeueth that euery one of those visible signes which the Church proposeth to the people to be beleeued receiued as Sacraments of the new lawe are instituted by Christ to conferre grace to the receiuers that to euery one of them is required a sincere intention to administer or performe that particular action as is was instituted or as the Tridentine decreeth intentione saltem faciendi quod facit Ecclesia that is at the least with intention to hoe that which the Church doth that seriously not in mockrie but notwithstanding it is not necessary that either he that performeth that ceremonie or he that receiues the same haue certaine knowledge of faith that this or that indiuidual Sacramēt hath ben instituted with the forsaid intention but to this a morall certaintie doth suffice both in the minister in the receiuer the reason is because to know whether one hath receiued or doth truely receiue a Sacrament or not falleth not vpon the essence or making or marring of a Sacrament as a thing necessarily precedent vnto the constitution of it but it is onely a thing consequent or following the same as seruing onely to rectify quiete the consciences of those that either administer it or receiue it to the which as being but a morall matter morall certainty onely is required And surely if all true faith should therefore be ouerthrowne as Sir Humfrey infereth because of wāt of certainty of faith in the receiuers that they receiue true Sacraments euerie time they reciue thē then should it followe by an argument ad hominem that the faith of the reformers were also ouerthrowne for that they themselues neither haue nor can haue any such certaintie of faith or if they say ther is no faith of any such intention of the minister in their religion so doe we say the same of ours for altho' it is a matter of faith in the Roman Church that the intention of the Preist is necessary in generall to the constitution of a Sacrament yet that intention is not necessarily knowne by faith in euerie particular case in this consisteth the equiuocation of the whole argument if the knight had distinguished between the intention the faith of the intention he might easilie haue perceiued that his discourse was founded vpon a false foundation To say nothing of the conclusion which although the premises were neuer so true yet had they not ben able to inferre such à vast consequence as is the ouerthrowe of all certaintie of true faith precisely in respect of the supposed want of faith of intention aboute the Sacraments And now by this generall ansere may be solued what soeuer Sir Humfrey saith afterwardes of the intention required to the Sacraments in particular To which I alson adde that if certaintie of faith were required in the receiuers of the Sacraments that as often as they receiue them the receiue true Sacraments hic nunc that as often as they want that faith they ouerthrow all certaintie of true faith then the reformers themselues were in a more pitifull case then the Romanists in regarde that it is vnpossible for them to knowne more then either by their owne seight or by relation of others that the true matter forme of the Sacraments be truelie applyed vnto them yet certaine it is that vpon neither of these two knowledges anie supernaturall faith can be founded but onely either a kynde of naturall cognitiō or knowledge at the most taken from the senses or a certaine morall certitude proceeding from the relation of their parents or others all which is farre inferior to the knowledge of faith as no man can denie That which may by a speciall reason be yet more plainelie vrged against the receiuers of the Sacraments in the reformed Churches in regarde they are so farre from certaintie of faith of the trueth of their Sacraments in particular that they cannot possible haue as much as a morall certaintie of the same nay nor morall probabilitie I meane such an one as may iustlie moue a prudent man to giue credit by reason they haue no certaintie nor yet probabilitie of the trueth of the vocation ordination of their ministers without certaintie of which two conditions it is well knowne on both sides that no certaine knowledge of the truth of indiuiduall Sacraments can possiblie he had And so we see that whereas Sir Humfrey thought he had framed a stong argument against the doctrine of Bellarmin he onelie heapeth coles vpon his owne head And from hence also we may gather an easie solution to that which he addeth against the necessitie of the Preists intention in some of the Sacraments which he specifieth as baptisme Order Matrimonie Touching which matter I desire the iudicious reader consider whether it is not much more conformable to reason to the dignity of the Sacraments to the honour of Christ who instituted them to the confort securitie of the receiuers that a sincere intention of the Preist Gods substitute be required to the truth due administration of them as the Roman Church doth teach ordaine or onely so that if the receiuers take them in the name of God as the reformers speake it is sufficient for the minister to performe that externall actiō which Christ did institude tho' he doeth it in iest or morkery as Luther teacheth or animo illusorio that is with an intention or meaning to delude as kemnitius affirmeth or to haue no intention necessarily required as Sir Humfrey here professeth this I say I leaue to the iudgement of any indifferent man to discerne whether the Romanists or the reformers proceed more safely religiously And as for the illations which the knight deduceth out of the necessity of the
to passe saith he that the number of the faithfull are so few that at all times they cannot easily be discerned His ansere is because it was foretold in the 18. of sainct Luke that when the sonne of man commeth he shall not finde faith vpon the earth marke the wisdome of this great Salomon admire it S. Luke as his wordes doe plainelie testifie speakes prophesies of the time of the comming of our Sauiour to iudge the world at the day of the generall iudgment yet Sir Humfrey most absurdlie abusedlie falselie applyes them to that vast Caos or large space of time which hath passed since the time of the Apostles to the dayes of Luther yea as it seemes by his discourse euen to the time of Christs comming to iudgment in the end of the world as if according to his reformed Logike this were a good consequence when the sonne of man commeth he shall not finde faith vpon the earth therefore the number of the faithfull is so smale that at all times they cannot easily be discerned ô acute subtile Logician in my opiniō much fitter for the carte thē the schoole of Dialect Another example I giue the reader in two places cited by the knight the one out of the 2. of Peter 2. chap. the other out of the 18. of the Reuel 3. verse which he applyeth to Indulgences pardons saying in his page 671. how comes it to passe that Indulgences pardons are graunted for monie made the treasure of their Church Because sayth he it was foretold there shall be false teachers among you by whome the way of truth shall be ill spoken of throu ' couetousnes shall with fayned wordes make marchandise of you Now it is true the place out of sainct Peter thou ' falselie fondlie applyed might farre more fitly be accommodated to the pretensiue reformed Puritanicall Nouellists whose greatest part of schollership si to rayle at the Pope Roman Church yet it is not vntrulie rehearsed but in the place quoted out of the Apocalips there is not one title to this purpose excepting that the Apostle once nameth the word merchants which neuerthelesse according to the true sense of the text maketh no more to the matter in hand then if he had named the word minister The rest of the places of scripture which he cites according to the common current exposition of the Roman Church euen at this present are vnderstood partly of the precursors of Antichrist which are the heretikes persecutors in generall of all ages partly of that great Antichriste properly so called whose comming all true Catholikes haue euer expected onely about the end or consummation of the world howbeit if a man were delighted in trifles trickes he might much more commodiously applie those same places to Luther his sequaces as hauing their pedigree discent from seuerall heretikes of former times then eyther to the Pope or Church of Rome as may also plainly appeere by the 39. articles of the new Creed of England of which excepting those fewe that agree with the doctrine of the Catholike Church there is scarce any that haue not binne defended by other heretikes ef more ancient standing as diuers learned Romanists haue demonstrated in their seuerall treatises By all which it doth appeere that althou ' Sir Humfrey hath vsed no other proofes in this section then the pure text of scripture yet hath he made so bad vse of it that all the world may cleerly perceiue that he is entred much further into his by-way then he was before Sec. 26. The 26. followeing is the conclusion of the treatise in which the author laboreth to showe the safety certainty of his owne way the vncertainty of the Romish way This is the whole drift scope not of this section onely but of the whole worke as being a breife summe of the same I confesse that if the Romanists were bound to giue credit to Sir Humfrey linds bare word in matters of faith maners then they ought of necessity to yeald him the safe way content themselues with the by but they are otherwise taught instructed they knowe that for the space of aboue 14. hundred yeeres togeather they had vnquestionable possession of the safe way to saluation may iustly say with ancient Tertullian Nos prius possedimus we had firste possession why then should we yeald vnto you take the by-way which you haue framed inuented of later yeeres nay why should we not rather with the same Tertullian boldly demaund of you who are according to the sayeing of another ancient father prodigiously borne of your selues Quiestis vos vnde quando venistis vbi tamdiu latuistis who are you from whence when did you come where haue you layne hid so long time with S. Hierome Quisquis es assector nouorum dogmatum queso vt parcas Romanis auribus parcas fidei quae apostolico ore laudata est who soeuer thou art that art a defender of new doctrine I beseech the spare the Roman eares spare that faith which is commended by the Apostles owne mouth in another place Cur post 400. annos docere nos niteris quod ante nesciuimus why after 400. yeeres I may say after 1400. yeeres doe you goe about to teach vs that which before we knew not with optatus vestrae Cathedrae originem ostendite qui vobis vultis sanctam Ecclesiam vendicare Shew the origen of your chaire you that callenge to your selues the holie Church wherfore if you vnder pretence of a reformation will enter into possessiō of the safe way if you will claime the truth leaue falsehood for vs it is not sufficient for you with a plausible flourish of speech as you vse heere Sir Humfrey to say so it is but you most firste proue your claime conuince your title that not by accusation of vs that which you haue onely performed through both your bookes for si accusasse sufficiat quis erit innocens if to accuse be sufficient who will be innocent but by positiue proofes of your owne which as yet neyther you nor any of your copemates haue euer performed You pretend sole scripture for your euidence but in place of Gods word you obtrude vnto vs your owne glosses captious illations sophiticall inferences or deductions you for your part Sir Humfrey you knowe you are ingaged by promise to ansere the Iesuites challenge which is not as you affirme hoping so to scape the brunt of the battell to proue out of some good authors that the Protestant Church so you please to call it for matter of state althou ' yours as I suppose is not truly the Protestant but the Puritan Church was all waies visible which althou ' I knowe I haue made manifest that as yet you haue not performed that taske neyther I am confident euer will be able to performe