A SECOND LETTER CONCERNING TOLERATION LICENSED June 24. 1690. LONDON Printed for Awnsham and John Churchill at the Black Swan in Ave-Mary-Lane near Pater-Noster-Row M DC XC TO THE AUTHOR OF THE Argument of the Letter concerning Toleraration briefly considered and answered SIR YOU will pardon me if I take the same Liberty with you that you have done with the Author of the Letter concerning Toleration to consider your Arguments and endeavour to shew you the Mistakes of them For since you have so plainly yeilded up the Question to him and do own that the Severities he would disswà de Christians from are utterly unapt and improper to bring Men to imbrace that Truth which must save them I am not without some hopes to prevail with you to do that your self which you say is the only justifiable Aim of Men differing about Religion even in the use of the severest Methods viz. Carefully and impartially to weigh the whole matter and thereby to remove that Prejudice which makes you yet favour some Remains of Persecution Promising my self that so ingenious a Person will either be convinced by the Truth which appears so very clear and evident to me or else confess that were either you or I in Authority we should very unreasonably and very unjustly use any Force upon the other which differ'd from him upon any pretence of want of Examination And if Force be not to be used in your case or mine because unreasonable or unjust you will I hope think fit that it should be forborn in all others where it will be equally unjust and unreasonable as I doubt not but to make it appear it will unavoidably be where ever you will go about to punish Men for want of Consideration For the true way to try such Speculations as these is to see how they will prove when they are reduc'd into Practice The first thing you seem startled at in the Author's Letter is the largeness of the Toleration he proposes And you think it strange that he would not have so much as a Pagan Mahumetan or Jew excluded from the Civil Rights of the Commonwealth because of his Religion We pray every day for their Conversion and I think it our Duty so to do But it will I fear hardly be believed that we pray in earnest if we exclude them from the other ordinary and probable means of Conversion either by driving them from or persecuting them when they are amongst us Force you allow is improper to convert Men to any Religion Toleration is but the removing that Force So that why those should not be tolerated as well as others if you wish their Conversion I do not see But you say it seems hard to conceive how the Author of that Letter should think to do any Service to Religion in general or to the Christian Religion by recommending and perswading such a Toleration For how much soever it may tend to the Advancement of Trade and Commerce which some seem to place above all other Considerations I see no reason from any Experiment that has been made to expect that true Religion would be a gainer by it that it would be either the better preserved the more widely propagated or rendred any whit the more fruitful in the Lives of its Professors by it Before I come to your Doubt it self Whether true Religion would be a gainer by such a Toleration give me leave to take notice that if by other Considerations you mean any thing but Religion your Parenthesis is wholly besides the matter and that if you do not know that the Author of the Letter places the Advancement of Trade above Religion your Insinuation is very uncharitable But I go on You see no reason you say from any Experiment that has been made to expect that true Religion would be a gainer by it True Religion and Christian Religion are I suppose to you and me the same thing But of this you have an Experiment in its first appearance in the World and several hundreds of Years after It was then better preserv'd more widely propagated in proportion and render'd more fruitful in the Lives of its Professors than ever since tho then Jews and Pagans were tolerated and more than tolerated by the Governments of those places where it grew up I hope you do not imagine the Christian Religion has lost aâ—… of its first Beauty Force or Reasonableness by having been â—…most 2000 Years in the World that you should fear it should be less able now to shift for it self without the help of Force I doubt not but you look upon it still to be the Poâ—…er and Wisdom of God for our Salvation and therefore cannot suspect it less capable to prevail now by its own Truth and Light than it did in the first Ages of the Church when poor contemptible Men without Authority or the countenance of Authority had alone the care of it This as I take it has been made use of by Christians generally and by some of our Church in particular as an Argument for the Truth of the Christian Religion that it grew and spread and prevailed without any Aid from Force or the Assistance of the Powers in being And if it be a mark of the true Religion that it will prevail by its own Light and Strength but that false Religions will not but have need of Force and foreign Helps to support them nothing certainly can be more for the advantage of true Religion than to take away Compulsion every where And therefore it is no more hard to conceive how the Author of the Letter should think to do Service to Religion in general or to the Christian Religion than it is hard to conceive that he should think there is a true Religion and that the Christian Religion is it which its Professors have always own'd not to need Force and have urged that as a good Argument to prove the truth of it The Inventions of Men in Religion need the Force and Helps of Men to support them A Religion that is of God wants not the Assistance of Human Authority to make it prevail I guess when this dropp'd from you you had narrow'd your Thoughts to your own Age and Country But if you will enlarge them a little beyond the Consines of England I do not doubt but you will easily imagine that if in Italy Spain Portugal c. the Inquisition and in France their Dragooning and in other parts those Severities that are used to keep or force Men to the National Religion were taken away and instead thereof the Toleration propos'd by the Author were set up the true Religion would be a gainer by it The Author of the Letter says Truth will do well enough if she were once left to shift for her self She seldom hath received and he fears never will receive much Assistance from the Power of great Men to whom she is but rarely known and more rarely welcome Errors indeed prevail by the
establish'd by Law Which is it seems the Lawful Religion of a Countrey and to be comply'd with as such There being such things such notions yet in the World it was not quite besides the Author's business to alledge that God never gave such authority to one man over another as to compel any one to his Religion I will grant if you please Religion establish'd by Law is a pretty odd way of speaking in the mouth of a Christian and yet it is much in fashion as if the Magistrate's Authority could add any force or sanction to any Religion whether true or false I am glad to find you have so far considered the Magistrate's Authority that you agree with the Author that he hath none to compel men to his Religion Much less can he by any establishment of Law add any thing to the Truth or Validity of his own or any Religion whatsoever It remains now to examine whether the Author's Argument will not hold good even against Punishments in your way For if the Magistrate's Authority be as you here say only to procure all his Subjects mark what you say ALL HIS SUBJECTS the means of discovering the way of Salvation and to procure withal as much as in him lies that NONE remain ignorant of it or refuse to embrace it either for want of using those means or by reason of any such prejudices as may render them ineffectual If this be the Magistrate's business in reference to ALL HIS SUBJECTS I desire you or any man else to tell me how this can be done by the application of Force only to a part of them Unless you will still vainly suppose ignorance â—…gligence or prejudice only amongst that part whiâ—…h any where dâ—…ffers from the Magistrate If those of the Magistrates Church may be ignorant of the way of salvation If it be possible there may be amongst them those who refuse to imbrace it either for want of using those means or by reason of any such prejudices as may render them ineffectual What in this case becomes of the Magistrate's Authority to procure all his Subjects the means of discovering the way of salâ—…ation Must these of his Subjects be neglected and lest without the means he has Authority to procure them Or must he ase Force upon them too And then pray shew me how this can be done Shall the Magistrate punish those of his own Religion to procurâ—… them the means of discovering the way of salvation and to procure as much as in him lies that they remain nor ignorant of it or refuse not to imbrace it These are such contradictions in practice this is such condemnation of a man 's own Religion as no one can expect from the Magistrate and I dare say you desire not of him And yet this is that he must do If his Authority â—…e to precure all his subjects the means of discovering the way to salvation And if it be so needful as you say it is that he should use it I am sure Force canâ—…do that till it be apply'd wider and Punishment be laid upon more than you would have it For if the Magistrate be by Force to pricuâ—…e â—…s much as in him lies that none remâ—…gnorant of the way of salvation must he not punish all those who are ignorant of the way of salvation And pray tell me how is this any way practicable but by supposing none in the National Church ignorant and all out of it ignorant of the way of Sâ—…lvation Which what is it but to punish men barely for not being of the Magistrate's Religion The very thing you deny he has authority to do So that the Magistraie having by your own confession nâ—… authority thus to use Force and it being otherways impract cable for the procuring all his Subjects the means of discovering the way of salvation there is an end of Force And so Force being laid aside either as unlawful or unpracticable the Author's Argument holds good against Force even in your way of applying it But if you say as you do in the foregoing page That the Magistrate has authority to lay such Penalties upon those who refuse to imbrace the Doctrine of the proper Ministers of Religion and â—…o submit to their Spiritual Government as to make them betbâ—…nk themselvâ—…s so as not to be aliâ—…nated from the Truth â—…or as for foâ—…lish â—…umour and uncharitable prâ—…judice c. which are but words oâ—… course that opposite Parties give one another as marks of dâ—…ke and presumption I omit them as signifying nothing to the Question being such as will with the same Reason be retorâ—…ed by the other Side Against that also the Author's Argument holds That the Magistrate has no such Authority 1st Because God never gave the Magistrate an authority to be Judg of truth for another man in matters of Religion and so he cannot be judg whether any man be altenated from the truth or no. 2â—…ly Because the Magistrate had never authority given him to lay any Penaltieâ—… on those who refuse to imbrace the Doctrine of the proper Ministers of his Religion or of any other or to submit to their Spiritual Government more than oâ—… any other men To the Author's Argument that the Magistrate cannot receive such authority from the People because no man has power to leave it to the choice of any other man to chuse a Religion for him you give this pleasant Answer As the Power of the Magi-strate in reference to Religionâ—… is ordained for the bringing men to take such care as they ought of their Salvation that they may not blindly leave it to the choice neither of any other person nor yet of their own lusts and passiâ—…ns to prescribe to them what faith or worship they shall embrace So if we suppose this power to be vested in the Magistrate by the consent of the People this will not 〈◊〉 their abandoning the care of their Salvation but rather the contrayâ—… For if men in chusing their Religion are so generally subject as has been showed when left wholly to thâ—…es to be so much â—…way d by prejudice and passion as either not at all or not sufficiently to regard the reasonâ—… and motives which ought alone to determine their choice then it is every man's true interest not to be left whoâ—…ly to himself in this matter but that care should be taken thaâ—…in an Affair of so vast concernment to him be 〈◊〉 be brought even against his own inclâ—…ation if it cannot be done otherwise which is ordinarily the case to act according to reason anâ—… sound judgmentâ—… And then what better course can mâ—…n take to provide for this than by vesting the Power I have described in him who bears the Sword Wherein I beseech you consider 1st Whether it be not pleasant that you say the Power of the Magistrate is ordaâ—…'d to bring men to take such care and thence infer Then it is every one's interest to vest such Power in
Assistance of Foreign and borrowed Succours Truth makes way into our Vnderstanding by her own Light and is but the weaker for any borrowed Force that Violence can add to her These words of his how hard soever they may seem to you may help you to conceive how he should think to do Service to True Religion by recommending and perswading such a Toleration as he proposed And now pray tell me your self whether you do not think True Religion would be a gainer by it if such a Toleration establish'd there would permit the Doctrine of the Church of England to be freely preached and its Worship set up in any Popish Mahumetan or Pagan Country If you do not you have a very ill Opinion of the Religion of the Church of England and must own that it can only be propagated and supported by Force If you think it would gain in those Countries by such a Toleration you are then of the Author's Mind and do not find it so hard to conceive how the recommending such a Toleration might do Service to that which you think True Religion But if you allow such a Toleration useful to Truth in other Countries you must find something very peculiar in the Air that must make it less useful to Truth in England And 't will savour of much partiality and be too absurd I fear for you to own that Toleration will be advantagious to True Religion all the World over except only in this Island Though I much suspect this as absurd as it is lies at the bottom And you build all you say upon this lurking Supposition that the National Religion now in England back'd by the Publick Authority of the Law is the only True Religion and therefore no other is to be tolerated Which being a Supposition equally unavoidable and equally just in other Countries unless we can imagine that every where but in England Men believe what at the same time they think to be a Lie will in other Places exclude Toleration and thereby hinder Truth from the means of propagating it self What the Fruits of Toleration are which in the next words you complain do remain still among us and which you say give no Encouragement to hope for any Advantages from it what Fruits I say these are or whether they are owing to the want or wideness of Toleration among us we shall then be able to judg when you tell us what they are In the mean time I will boldly say that if the Magistrates will severely and impartially set themselves against Vice in whomsoever it is found and leave Men to their own Consciences in their Articles of Faith and Ways of Worship True Religion will be spread wider and be more fruitful in the Lives of its Professors than ever hitherto it has been by the imposition of Creeds and Ceremonies You tell us that no Man can fail of sinding the Way of Salvation who seeks it as he ought I wonder you had not taken notice in the places you quote for this how we are directed there to the right way of seeking The words John vii 17. are If any Man will do his Will he shall know of the Doctrine whether it be of God And Psalm XXV 9 12 14. which are also quoted by you tell us The Meek will he guide in Judgment and the Meek will he teach his Way What Man is he that feareth the Lord him shall he teach in the Way that he shall chuse The Secret of the Lord is with them that fear him and he will shew them his Covenant So that these places if they prove what you cite them for that no Man can fail of finding the Way of Salvation who seeks it as he ought they do also prove that a good Life is the only way to seek as we ought and that therefore the Ma istrates if they would put Men upon seeking the way of Salvation as they ought should by their Laws and Penalties force them to a good Life A good Conversation being the readiest and surest way to a right Understanding Punishments and Severities thus apply'd we are sure are both practicable just and useful How Punishments will prove in the way you contend for we shall see when we come to consider it Having given us these broad Marks of your Good-will to Toleration you tell us 'T is not your Design to argue against it but only to enquire what our Author offers for the proof of his Assertion And then you give us this Scheme of his Argument 1. There is but one Way of Salvation or but one True Religion 2. No Man can be saved by this Religion who does not believe it to be the True Religion 3. This Belief is to be wrought in Men by Reason and Argument not by outward Force and Compulsion 4. Therefore all such Force is utterly of no use for the promoting True Religion and the Salvation of Souls 5. And therefore no Body can have any Right to use any Force or Compulsion for the bringing Men to the True Religion And you tell us the whole strength of what that Letter urged for the Purpose of it lies in this Argument Which I think you have no more reason to say than if you should tell us that only one Beam of a House had any strength in it when there are several others that would support the Building were that gone The purpose of the Letter is plainly to desend Toleration exempt from all Force especially Civil Force or the Force of the Magistrate Now if it be a true Consequence that Men must be tolerated if Magistrates have no Commission or Authority to punish them for Matters of Religion then the only strength of that Letter lies not in the unfitness of Force to convince Mens Vnderstanding Vid. Let. p. 7. Again If it be true that Magistrates being as liable to Error as the rest of Mankind their using of Force in Matters of Religion would not at all advance the Salvation of Mankind allowing that even Force could work upon them and Magistrates had Authority to use it in Religion then the Argument you mention is not the only one in that Letter of strength to prove the Necessity of Toleration V. Let. P. 8. For the Argument of the unsitness of Force to convince Mens Minds being quite taken away either of the other would be a strong proof for Toleration But let us consider the Argument as you have put it The two first Propositions you say you agree to As to the Third you grant that Force is very improper to be used to induce the Mind to assent to any Truth But yet you deny that Force is utterly useless for the promoting True Religion and the Salvation of Mens Souls which you call the Author's 4th Proposition But indeed that is not the Author's 4th Proposition or any Proposition of his to be sound in the Pages you quote or any where else in the whole Letter either in those terms or
in the sense you take it In the 8th Page which you quote the Author is shewing that the Magistrate has no Power that is not Right to make use of Force in Matters of Religion for the Salvation of Mens Souls And the reason he gives for it there is because force has no efficacy to convince Mens Minds and that without a full perswasion of the Mind the Profession of the true Religion it self is not acceptable to God Vpon this ground says he I affirm that the Magistrate's Power extends not to the establishing any Articles of Faith or Forms of Worship by the force of his Laws For Laws are of no force at all without Penalties and Penalties in this case are absolutely impertinent because they are not proper to convince the Mind And so again Pag. 27. which is the other place you quote the Author says What soever may be doubted in Religion yet this at least is certain that no Religion which I believe not to be true can be either true or profitable unto me In vain therefore do Princes compel their Subjects to come into their Church-Communion under the pretence of saving their Souls And more to this purpose But in neither of those Passages nor any where else that I remember does the Author say that it is impossible that Force should any way at any time upon any Person by any Accident be useful towards the promoting of true Religion and the Salvation of Souls for that is it which you mean by utterly of no use He does not deny that there is any thing which God in his Goodness does not or may not sometimes graciously make use of towards the Salvation of Mens Souls as our Saviour did of Clay and Spittle to cure Blindness and that so Force also may be sometimes useful But that which he denies and you grant is that Force has any proper Efficacy to enlighten the Understanding or produce Belief And from thence he infers that therefore the Magistrate cannot lawfully compel Men in matters of Religion This is what the Author says and what I imagine will always hold true whatever you or any one can say or think to the contrary That which you say is Force indirectly and at a distance may do some Service What you mean by doing Service at a distance towards the bringing Men to Salvation or to imbrace the Truth I confess I do not understand unless perhaps it be what others in propriety of Speech call by Accident But be it what it will it is such a Service as cannot be ascribed to the direct and proper Efficacy of Force And so say you Force indirectly and at a distance may do some Service I grant it Make your best of it What do you conclude from thence to your purpose That therefore the Magistrate may make use of it That I deny That such an indirect and at a distance Vsefulness will authorize the Civil Power in the use of it that will never be prov'd Loss of Estate and Dignities may make a proud Man humble Sufferings and Imprisonment may make a wild and debauched Man sober And fo these things may indirectly and at a distance be serviceable towards the Salvation of Mens Souls I doubt not but God has made some or all of these the occasions of good to many Men. But will you therefore infer that the Magistrate may take away a Man's Honour or Estate or Liberty for the Salvation of his Soul or torment him in this that he may be happy in the other World What is otherwise unlawful in it self as it certainly is to punish a Man without a fault can never be made lawful by some Good that indirectly and at a distance or if you please indirectly and by accident may follow from it Running a Man through may save his Life as it has done by chance opening a lurking Imposthume But will you say therefore that this is lawful justifiable Chirurgery The Gallies 't is like might reduce many a vain loose Protestant to Repentance Sobriety of Thought and a true sense of Religion And the Torments they suffer'd in the late Persecution might make several consider the Pains of Hell and put a due estimate of Vanity and Contempt on all things of this World But will you say because those Punishments might indirectly and at a distance serve to the Salvation of Mens Souls that therefore the King of France had Right and Authority to make use of them If your indirect and at a distance Serviceableness may authorize the Magistrate to use Force in Religion all the Cruelties used by the Heathens against Christians by Papists against Protestants and all the persecuting of Christians one amongst another are all justifiable But what if I should tell you now of other Effects contrary Effects that Punishments in matters of Religion may produce and so may serve to keep Men from the Truth and from Salvation What then will become of your indirect and at a distance Vsefulness For in all Pleas for any thing because of its usefulness it is not enough to say as you do and is the utmost that can be said for it that it may be serviceable But it must be considered not only what it may but what it is likely to produce And the greater Good or Harm like to come from it ought to determine of the use of it To shew you what Effects one may expect from Force of what usefulness it is to bring Men to imbrace the Truth be pleas'd to read what you your self have writ I cannot but remark say you that these Methods viz. depriving Men of their Estates Corporal Punishments starving and tormenting them in Prisons and in the end even taking away their Lives to make them Christians are so very improper in respect to the Design of them that they usually produce the quite contrary Effect For whereas all the use which Force can have for the advancing true Religion and the Salvation of Souls is as has already been shewed by disposing Men to submit to Instruction and to give a fair hearing to the Reasons which are offer'd for the enlightning their Minds and discovering the Truth to them These Cruelties have the Misfortune to be commonly look'd upon as so just a Prejudice against any Religion that uses them as makes it needless to look any further into it and to tempt Men to reject it as both false and detestable without ever vouchsafing to consider the rational Grounds and Motives of it This Effect they seldom fail to work upon the Sufferers of them And as to the Spectators if they be not beforehand well instructed in those Grounds and Motives they will be much tempted likewise not only to entertain the same Opinion of such a Religion but withal to judg much more favourably of that of the Sufferers who they will be apt to think would not expose themselves to such Extremities which they might avoid by compliance if they were not throughly satisfied
of the Justice of their Cause Here then you allow that taking away Mens Estates or Liberty and Corporal Punishments are apt to drive away both Sufferers and Spectators from the Religion that makes use of them rather than to it And so these you renounce Now if you give up Punishments of a Man in his Person Liberty and Estate I think we need not stand with you for any other Punishments may be made use of But by what follows it seems you shelter your self under the name of Severities For moderate Punishments as you call them in another place you think may be serviceable indirectly and at a distance serviceable to bring Men to the Truth And I say any sort of Punishments disproportioned to the Offence or where there is no fault at all will always be Severity unjustifiable Severity and will be thought so by the Sufferers and By-standers and so will usually produce the Effects you have mentioned contrary to the Design they are used for Not to profess the National Faith whilst one believes it not to be true not to enter into Church-Communion with the Magistrate as long as one judges the Doctrine there professed to be erroneous or the Worship not such as God has either prescribed or will accept this you allow and all the World with you must allow not to be a fault But yet you would have Men punished for not being of the National Religion that is as you your self confess for no fault at all Whether this be not Severity nay so open and avow'd Injustice that it will give Men a just Prejudice against the Religion that uses it and produce all those ill Effects you there mention I leave you to consider So that the name of Severities in opposition to the moderate Punishments ' you speak for can do you no Service at all For where there is no Fault there can be no moderate Punishment All Punishment is immoderate where there is no Fault to be punished But of your moderate Punishment we shall have occasion to speak more in another place It suffices here to have shewn that whatever Punishments you use they are as likely to drive Men from the Religion that uses them as to bring them to the Truth and much more likely as we shall see before we have done And so by your own Confession they are not to be used One thing in this Passage of the Author it seems appears absurd to you that he should say That to take away Mens Lives to make them Christians was but an ill way of expressing a Design of their Salvation I grant there is great Absurdity some where in the case But it is in the Practice of those who persecuting Men under a pretence of bringing them to Salvation suffer the Temper of their Good-will to betray it self in taking away their Lives And whatever Absurdities there be in this way of proceeding there is none in the Author's way of expressing it as you would more plainly have seen if you had looked into the Latin Original where the words are Vita denique ipsâ privant ut fideles ut salvi siant Pag. 5. which tho more literally might be thus render'd To bring them to the Faith and to Salvation yet the Translator is not to be blamed if he chose to express the Sense of the Author in words that very lively represented the extream Absurdity they are guilty of who under pretence of Zeal for the Salvation of Souls proceed to the taking away their Lives An Example whereof we have in a neighbouring Country where the Prince declares he will have all his Dissenting Subjects sav'd and pursuant thereunto has taken away the Lives of many of them For thither at last Persecution must come As I fear notwithstanding your talk of moderate Punishments you your self intimate in these words Not that I think the Sword is to be used in this business as I have sufficiently declared already but because all coactive Power resolves at last into the Sword since all I do not say that will not be reformed in this matter by lesser Penalties but that refuse to submit to lesser Penalties must at last fall under the stroke of it In which words if you mean any thing to the businesâ—… in hand you seem to have a reserve for greater Punishments when lesser are not sufficient to bring Men to be convinced But let that pass You say If Force be usâ—…d not instead of Reason and Arguments that is not to convince by its own proper Efficacy which it cannot do c. I think those who make Laws and use Force to bring Men to Church-Conformity in Religion seek only the Compliance but concern themselves not for the Conviction of those they punish and so never use Force to convince For pray tell me When any Dissenter conforms and enters into the Church-Communion is he ever examined to see whether he does it upon Reason and Conviction and such Grounds as would become a Christian concern'd for Religion If Persecution as is pretended were for the Salvation of Mens Souls this would be done and Men not driven to take the Sacrament to keep their Places or to obtain Licenses to sell Ale for so low have these holy Things been prostituted who perhaps knew nothing of its Institution and considered no other use of it but the securing some poor secular Advantage which without taking of it they should have lost So that this Exception of yours of the use of Force instead of Arguments to convince Men I think is needless those who use it not being that ever I heard concern'd that Men should be convinced But you go on in telling us your way of using Force only to bring Men to consider those Reasons and Arguments which are proper and sufficient to convince them but which without being forced they would not consider And say you Who can deny but that indirectly and at a distance it does some Service towards bringing Men to imbrace that Truth which either through Negligence they would never acquaint themselves with or through Prejudice they would reject and condemn unheard Whether this way of Punishment is like to increase or remove Prejudice we have already seen And what that Truth is which you can positively say any Man without being forced by Punishment would through carelesness never acquaint himself with I desire you to name Some are call'd at the third some at the ninth and some at the eleventh hour And whenever they are call'd they imbrace all the Truth necessary to Salvation But these slips may be forgiven amongst so many gross and palpable Mistakes as appear to me all through your Discourse For Example You tell us that Force used to bring Men to consider does indirectly and at a distance some Service Here now you walk in the dark and endeavour to cover your self with Obscurity by omitting two necessary parts As first who must use this Force which tho you tell us not here
do so For however you have put it thus as you have fram'd the Author's Argument Force is utterly of no use for the promoting of true Religion and the Salvation of Souls and therefore no body can have any right to use any Force or Compulsion for the bringing Men to the true Religion yet the Author does not in those Pages you quote make the latter of these Propositions an Inference barely from the former but makes use of it as a Truth proved by several Arguments he had before brought to that purpose For tho it be a good Argument it is not useful therefore not fit to be used yet this will not be good Logick it is useful therefore any one has a right to use it For if the Vsefulness makes it lawful it makes it lawful in any hands that can so apply it and so private Men may use it Who can deny say you but that Force indirectly and at a distance may do some Service towards the bringing Men to imbrace that Truth which otherwise they would never acquaint themselves with If this be good arguing in you for the usefulness of Force towards the saving of Mens Souls give me leave to argue after the same fashion 1. I will suppose which you will not deny me that as there are many who take up their Religion upon wrong Grounds to the indangering of their Souls so there are many that abandon themselves to the heat of their Lusts to the indangering of their Souls 2dly I will suppose that as Force apply'd your way is apt to make the Inconsiderate consider so Force apply'd another way is as apt to make the Lascivious chaste The Argument then in your form will stand thus Who can deny but that Force indirectly and at a distance may by Castration do some Service towards bringing Men to imbrace that Chastity which otherwise they would never acquaint themselves with Thus you see Castration may indirectly and at a distance be serviceable towards the Salvation of Mens Souls But will you say from such an usefulness as this because it may indirectly and at a distance conduce to the saving of any of his Subjects Souls that therefore the Magistrate has a right to do it and may by Force make his Subjects Eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven It is not for the Magistrate or any body else upon an Imagination of its Vsefulness to make use of any other means for the Salvation of Mens Souls than what the Author and Finisher of our Faith hath directed You may be mistaken in what you think useful Dives thought and so perhaps should you and I too if not better inform'd by the Scriptures that it would bâ—… useful to rouze and awaken Men if one should come to them from the Dead But he was mistaken And we are told that if Men will not hearken to Moses and the Prophets the means appointed neither will the Strangeness nor Terror of one coming from the Dead perswade them If what we are apt to think useful were thence to be concluded so we should I fear be obliged to believe the Miracles pretended to by the Church of Rome For Miracles we know were once useful for the promoting true Religion and the Salvation of Souls which is more than you can say for your Political Punishments But yet we must conclude that God thinks them not useful now unless we will say that which without Impiety cannot be said that the Wise and Benign Disposer and Governour of all things does not now use all useful means for promoting his own Honour in the World and the Good of Souls I think this Consequence will hold as well as what you draw in near the same words Let us not therefore be more wise than our Maker in that stupendious and supernatural Work of our Salvation The Scripture that reveals it to us contains all that we can know or do in order to it and where that is silent 't is in us Presumption to direct When you can shew any Commission in Scripture for the use of Force to compel Men to hear any more than to imbrace the Doctrine of others that differ from them we shall have reason to submit to it and the Magistrate have some ground to set up this new way of Persecution But till then 't will be sit for us to obey that Precept of the Gospel which bids us take heed what we hear So that hearing is not always so useful as you suppose If it had we should never have had so direct a Caution against it 'T is not any imaginary Vsefulness you can suppose which can make that a punishable Crime which the Magistrate was never authorized to meddle with Go and teach all Nations was a Commission of our Saviour's But there was not added to it Punish those that will not hear and consider what you say No but if they will not receive you shake off the Dust of your Feet leave them and apply your selves to some others And St. Paul knew no other means to make Men hear but the preaching of the Gospel as will appear to any one who will read Romans the 10th 14 c. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God You go on and in favour of your beloved Force you tell us that it is not only useful but needful And here after having at large in the four following Pages set out the Negligence or Aversion or other hinderances that keep Men from examining with that application and freedom of Judgment they should the Grounds upon which they take up and persist in their Religion you come to conclude Force necessary Your words are If Men are generally averse to a due Consideration of things where they are most concerned to use it if they usually take up their Religion without examining it as they ought and then grow so opinionative and so stiff in their Prejudice that neither the gentlest Admonitions nor the most earnest Intreaties shall ever prevail with them afterwards to do it what means is there left besides the Grace of God to reduce those of them that are got into a wrong Way but to lay Thorns and Briars in it That since they are deaf to all Perswasions the uneasiness they meet with may at least put them to a stand and incline them to lend an Ear to those who tell them they have mistaken their way and offer to shew them the right way What means is there left say you but Force What to do To reduce Men who are out of it into the right way So you tell us here And to that I say there is other means besides Force that which was appointed and made use of from the beginning the Preaching of the Gospel But say you to make them hear to make them consider to make them examine there is no other means but Punishment and therefore it is necessary I answer 1st What if God for Reasons best known to himself would not have
any were to be heard But how many do you think by Friendly and Christian Debates with them at their Houses and by the gentle Methods of the Gospel made use of in private Conversation might have been brought into the Church who by railing from the Pulpit ill and unfriendly Treatment out of it and other Neglects or Miscarriages of those who claimed to be their Teachers have been driven from hearing them Paint the Defects and Miscarriages frequent on this side as well as you have done those on the other and then do you with all the World consider whether those who you so handsomely declaim against for being misled by Education Passion Humour Prejudice Obstinacy c. do deserve all the Punishment Perhaps it will be answered If there be so much toil in it that particular Persons must be apply'd to who then will be a Minister And what if a Lay-man should reply If there be so much toil in it that Doubts must be cleared Prejudices removed Foundations examined c. Who then will be a Protestant The Excuse will be as good hereafter for the one as for the other This new Method of yours which you say no body can deny but that indirectly and at a distance it does some Service towards bringing Men to embrace the Truth was never yet thought on by the most refined Persecutors Tho indeed it is not altogether unlike the Plea made use of to excuse the late barbarous Usage of the Protestants in France designed to extirpate the Reformed Religion there from being a Persecution for Religion The French King requires all his Subjects to come to Mass. Those who do not are punished with a witness For what Not for their Religion say the Pleaders for that Discipline but for disobeying the King's Laws So by your Rule the Dissenters for thither you would and thither you must come if you mean any thing must be punished For what Not for their Religion say you not for following the Light of their own Reason not for obeying the Dictates of their own Consciences That you think not fit For what then are they to be punished To make them say you examine the Religion they have imbraced and the Religion they have rejected So that they are punished not for having offended against a Law For there is no Law of the Land that requires them to examine And which now is the fairer Plea pray judg You ought indeed to have the Credit of this new Invention All other Law-makers have constantly taken this Method that where any thing was to be amended the Fault was first declared and then Penalties denounced against all those who after a time set should be found guilty of it This the common Sense of Mankind and the very Reason of Laws which are intended not for Punishment but Correction has made so plain that the subtilest and most resined Law-makers have not gone out of this course nor have the most ignorant and barbarous Nations mist it But you have out-done Solon and Lycurgus Moses and our Saviour and are resolved to be a Law-maker of a way by your self 'T is an old and obsolete way and will not serve your turn to begin with Warnings and Threats of Penalties to be inflicted on those who do not reform but continue to do that which you think they fail in To allow of Impunity to the Innocent or the opportunity of Amendment to those who would avoid the Penalties are Formalities not worth your notice You are for a shorter and surer way Take a whole Tribe and punish them at all Adventures whether guilty or no of the Miscarriage which you would have amended or without so much as telling them what it is you would have them do but leaving them to find it out if they can All these Absurdities are contained in your way of proceeding and are impossible to be avoided by any one who will punish Dissenters and only Dissenters to make them consider and weigh the Grounds of their Religion and impartially examine whether it be true or no and upon what Grounds they took it up that so they may find and imbrace the Truth that must save them But that this new sort of Discipline may have all fair play let us enquire First Who it is you would have be punished In the place above cited they are those who are got into a wrong way and are deaf to all Perswasions If these are the Men to be punished let a Law be made against them you have my Consent and that is the proper course to have Offenders punished For you do not I hope intend to punish any fault by a Law which you do not name in the Law nor make a Law against any fault you would not have punished And now if you are sincere and in earnest and are as a fair Man should be sor what your words plainly signify and nothing else what will such a Law serve for Men in the wrong Way are to be punished but who are in the wrong Way is the Question You have no more reason to determine it against one who differs from you than he has to conclude against you who differ from him No not tho you have the Magistrate and the National Church on your side For if to differ from them be to be in the wrong Way you who are in the right Way in England will be in the wrong Way in France Every one here must be judg for himself And your Law will reach no body till you have convinced him he is in the wrong Way And then there will be no need of Punishment to make him consider unless you will assirm again what you have deny'd and have Men punished for imbracing the Religion they believe to be true when it differs from yours or the Publick Besides being in the wrong Way those who you would have punished must be such as are deaf to all Perswasions But any such I suppose you will hardly sind who hearken to no body not to those of their own Way If you mean by deaf to all Perswasions all Perswasions of a contrary Party or of a different Church such I suppose you may abundantly find in your own Church as well as else-where and I presume to them you are so charitable that you would not have them punished for not lending an Ear to Seducers For Constancy in the Truth and Perseverance in the Faith is I hope rather to be incouraged than by any Penalties check'd in the Orthodox And your Church doubtless as well as all others is Orthodox to it self in all its Tenets If you mean by all Perswasion all your Perswasion or all Perswasion of those of your Communion you do but beg the Question and suppose you have a right to punish those who differ from and will not comply with you Your next words are When Men fly from the means of a right Information and will not so much as consider how reasonable it is throughly and
impartially to examine a Religion which they embraced upon such Inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the matter and therefore with little or no Examination of the proper Grounds of it What Human Method can be used to bring them to act like Men in an Affair of such Consequence and to make a wiser and more rational Choice but that of laying such Penalties upon them as may ballance the weight of those Prejudices which inclin'd them to prefer a false Way before the true and recover them to so much Sobriety and Reflection as seriously to put the Question to themselves Whether it be really worth the while to undergo such Inconveniencies for adhering to a Religion which for any thing they know may be false or for rejecting another if that be the case which for any thing they know may be true till they have brought it to the Bar of Reason and given it a fair trial there Here you again bring in such as prefer a false Way before a true To which having answered already I shall here say no more but that since our Church will not allow those to be in a false Way who are out of the Church of Rome because the Church of Rome which pretends Infallibity declares hers to be the only true Way certainly no one of our Church nor any other which claims not Infallibility can require any one to take the Testimony of any Church as a sufficient Proof of the Truth of her own Doctrine So that true and false as it commonly happens when we suppose them for our selves or our Party in essect signify just nothing or nothing to the purpose unless we can think that true or false in England which will not be so at Rome or Geneva and Vice versâ As for the rest of the Description of those on whom you are here laying Penalties I beseech you consider whether it will not belong to any of your Church let it be what it will Consider I say if there be none in your Church who have imbrac'd her Religion upon such Inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the matter and therefore with little or no Examination of the proper Grounds of it who have not been inclin'd by Prejudices who do not adhere to a Religion which for any thing they know may be false and who have rejected another which for any thing they know may be true If you have any such in your Communion and 't will be an admirable tho I fear but a little Flock that has none such in it consider well what you have done You have prepared Rods for them for which I imagine they will con you no Thanks For to make any tolerable Sense of what you here propose it must be understood that you would have Men of all Religions punished to make them consider whether it be really worth the while to undergo such Inconveniencies for adhering to a Religion which for any thing they know may be false If you hope to avoid that by what you have said of true and false and pretend that the supposed preference of the true Way in your Church ought to preserve its Members from your Punishment you manifestly triste For every Church's Testimony that it has chosen the true Way must be taken for it self and then none will be liable and your new Invention of Punishment is come to nothing Or else the differing Churches Testimonies must be taken one for another and then they will be all out of the tâ—…ue Way and your Church need Penalties as well as the rest So that upon your Principles they must all or none be punished Chuse which you please One of them I think you cannot escape What you say in the next words Where Instruction is stifly refused and all Admonitions and Perswasions prove vain and ineffectual differs nothing but in the way of expressing from Deaf to all Perswasions And so that is answer'd already In another place you give us another description of those you think ought to be punished in these words Those who refuse to embrace the Doctrine and submit to the Spiritual Government of the proper Ministers of Religion who by special designation are appointed to Exhort Admonish Reprove c. Here then those to be punished are such who refuse to imbrace the Doctrine and submit to the Government of the proper Ministers of Religion Whereby we are as much still at uncertainty as we were before who those are who by your Scheme and Laws suitable to it are to be punished Since every Church has as it thinks its proper Ministers of Religion And if you mean those that refuse to imbrace the Doctrine and submit to the Government of the Ministers of another Church then all Men will be guilty and must be punished even those of your Church as well as others If you mean those who refuse c. the Ministers of their own Church very few will incur your Penalties But if by these Proper Ministers of Religion the Ministers of some particular Church are intended why do you not name it Why are you so reserv'd in a Matter wherein if you speak not out all the rest that you say will be to no purpose Are Men to be punished for refusing to imbrace the Doctrine and submit to the Government of the proper Ministers of the Church of Geneva For this time since you have declared nothing to the contrary let me suppose you of that Church And then I am sure that is it that you would name For of what-ever Church you are if you think the Ministers of any one Church ought to be hearken'd to and obey'd it must be those of your own There are Persons to be punished you say This you contend for all through your Book and lay so much stress on it that you make the Preservation and Propagation of Religion and the Salvation of Souls to depend on it And yet you describe them by so general and equivocal Marks that unless it be upon Suppositions which no Body will grant you I dare say neither you nor any Body else will be able to find one guilty Pray find me if you can a Man whom you can judicially prove for he that is to be punished by Law must be fairly tried is in a wrong way in respect of his Faith I mean who is deaf to all Perswasions who flies from all Means of a right Information who refuses to imbrace the Doctrine and submit to the Government of the Spiritual Pastors And when you have done that I think I may allow you what Power you please to punish him without any prejudice to the Toleration the Author of the Letter proposes But why I pray all this bogling all this loose talking as if you knew not what you meant or durst not speak it out Would you be for punishing some Body you know not whom I do not think so ill of you Let me then speak out for you
The Evidence of the Argument has convinced you that Men ought not to be persecuted for their Religion That the Severities in use amongst Christians cannot be defended That the Magistrate has not Authority to compel any one to his Religion This you are forced to yield But you would fain retain some Power in the Magistrate's Hands to punish Dissenters upon a new Pretence viz. not for having imbraced the Doctrine and Worship they believe to be True and Right but for not having well consider'd their own and the Magistrate's Religion To shew you that I do not speak wholly without-Book give me leave to mind you of one Passage of yours The words are Penalties to put them upon a sorious and impartial examination of the Controversy between the Magistrates and them Though these words be not intended to tell us who you would have punished yet it may be plainly inferr'd from them And they more clearly point out whom you aim at than all the foregoing places where you seem to and should describe them For they are such as between whom and the Magistrate there is a Controversy That is in short who differ from the Magistrate in Religion And now indeed you have given us a Note by which these you would have punished may be known We have with much ado found at last whom it is we may presume you would have punished Which in other Cases is usually not very difficult because there the Faults to be mended easily design the Persons to be corrected But yours is a new Method and unlike all that ever went before it In the next place Let us see for what you would have them punished You tell us and it will easily be granted you that not to examine and weigh impartially and without Prejudice or Passion all which for shortness-sake we will express by this one word Consider the Religion one embraces or refuses is a Fault very common and very prejudicial to true Religion and the Salvation of Mens Souls But Penalties and Punishments are very necessary say you to remedy this Evil. Let us see now how you apply this Remedy Therefore say you let all Dissenters be punished Why Have no Dissenters considered of Religion Or have all Conformists considered That you your self will not say Your Project therefore is just as reasonable as if a Lethargy growing Epidemical in England you should propose to have a Law made to blister and scarify and shave the Heads of all who wear Gowns Though it be certain that neither all who wear Gowns are Lethargick nor all who are Lethargick wear Gowns Dii te Damasippe Deaeque Verum ob consilium donent tonsore For there could not be certainly a more Learned Advice than that one Man should be pull'd by the Ears because another is asleep This when you have consider'd of it again for I find according to your Principle all Men have now and then need to be jog'd you will I guess be convinced is not like a fair Physician to apply a Remedy to a Disease but like an engag'd Enemy to vent one's Spleen upon a Party Common Sense as well as Common Justice requires that the Remedies of Laws and Penalties should be directed against the Evil that is to be removed where-ever it be found And if the Punishment you think so necessary be as you pretend to cure the Mischief you complain of you must let it pursue and fall on the Guilty and those only in what company soever they are And not as you here propose and is the highest Injustice punish the Innocent considering Dissenteâ—… with the Guilty and on the other side let the inconsiderate guilty Conformist scape with the Innocent For one may rationally presume that the National Church has some nay more in proportion of those who little consider or concern themselves about Religion than any Congregation of Dissenters For Conscience or the Care of their Souls being once laid aside Interest of course leads Men into that Society where the Protection and Countenance of the Government and hopes of Preferment bid fairest to all their remaining Desires So that if careless negligent inconsiderate Men in Matters of Religion who without being forced would not consider are to be roused into a care of their Souls and a search after Truth by Punishments The National Religion in all Countries will certainly have a right to the greatest share of those Punishments at least not to be wholly exempt from them This is that which the Author of the Letter as I remember complains of and that justly viz. That the pretended Care of Mens Souls always expresses it self in those who would have Force any way made use of to that end in very unequâ—…l Methods some Persons being to be treated with Severity whilst others guilty of the same Faults are not to be so much as touched Though you are got pretty wâ—…ll out of the deep Mud and renounce Punishments directly for Religion yet you stick still in this part of the Mire whilst you would have Dissenters punished to make them consider but would not have any thing done to Conformists tho never so negligent in this point of considering The Author's Letter pleas'd me because it is equal to all Mankind is direct and will I think hold every where which I take to be a good Mark of Truth For I shall always suspect that neither to comport with the Truth of Religion or the Design of the Gospel which is suited to only some one Country or Party What is True and Good in England will be True and Good at Rome too in China or Geneva But whether your great and only Method for the propagating of Truth by bringing the Inconsiderate by Punishments to consider would according to your way of applying your Punishments only to Dissenters from the National Religion be of use in those Countries or any where but where you suppose the Magistrate to be in the Right judg you Pray Sir consider a little whether Prejudice has not some share in your way of Arguing For this is your Position Men are generally negligent in examining the Grounds of their Religion This I grant But could there be a more wild and incoherent Consequence drawn from it than this Therefore Dissenters must be punished But that being laid aside let us now see to what end they must be punished Sometimes it is To bring them to consider those Reasons and Arguments which are proper and sufficient to convince them Of what That it is not easy to set Grantham Steeple upon Paul's Church What-ever it be you would have them convinced of you are not willing to tell us And so it may be any thing Sometimes it is To incline them to lend an Ear to those who tell them they have mistaken their Way and offer to shew them the Right Which is to lend an Ear to all who differ from them in Religion as well crafty Seducers as others Whether this be for the procuring
the Salvation of their Souls the End for which you say this Force is to be used judg you But this I am sure Whoever will lend an Ear to all who will tell them they are out of the Way will not have much time for any other Business Sometimes it is To recover Men to so much Sobriety and Reflection as seriously to put the Question to themselves Whether it be really worth their while to undergo such Inconveniences for adhering to a Religion which for any thing they know may be false or for rejecting another if that be the case which for ought they know may be true till they have brought it to the Bar of Reason and given it a fair Trial there Which in short amounts to thus much viz. To make them examine whether their Religion be True and so worth the holding under those Penalties that are annexed to it Dissenters are indebted to you for your great care of their Souls But what I beseech you shall become of those of the National Church every where which make sar the greater part of Mankind who have no such Punishments to make them consider who have not this only Remedy provided sor them but are lest in that deplorable Condition you mention of being suffer'd quietly and without Molestation to take no care at all of their Souls or in doing of it to follow their own Prejudices Humours or some crafty Seducers Need not those of the National Church as well as others bring their Religion to the Bar of Reason and give it a fair trial there And if they need to do so as they must if all National Religions cannot be supposed true they will always need that which you say is the only means to make them do so So that if you are sure as you tell us that there is need of your Method I am sure there is as much need of it in National Churches as any other And so for ought I can see you must either punish them or let others alone Unless you think it reasonable that the sar greater part of Mankind should constantly be without that Soveraign and only Remedy which they stand in need of equally with other People Sometimes the end for which Men must be punished is to dispose them to submit to Instruction and to give a fair hearing to the Reasons are offer'd for the inliâ—…htning their Minds and discovering the Truth to them If their own words may be taken for it there are as sew Dissenters as Consormists in any Country who will not profess they have done and do this And if their own word may not be taken who I pray must be judg You and your Magistrates If so then it is plain you punish them not to dispose them to submit to Instruction but to your Instruction not to dispose them to give a fair hearing to Reasons offer'd for the inlightning their Minds but to give an obedient hearing to your Reasons If you mean this it had been sairer and shorter to have spoken out plainly than thus in fair words of indesinite Signification to say that which amounts to nothing For what Sense is it to punish a Man to dispose him to submit to Instruction and give a fair hearing to Reasons offer'd for the inlightning his Mind and discovering Truth to him who â—…s two or three times a week several 〈◊〉 on purpâ—…se to do iâ—… and that with the hazard of his Liberty or Purse 〈◊〉 you mean your Instructions your Reasons your Truth Which brings us but back to what you have disclaimed plain Persecution for differing in Religion Sometimes this is to be done To prevail with Men to weigh Matters of Religion carefully and impartially Discountenance and Punishment put into one Scale with Impunity and hopes of Preferment put into the other is as sure a way to make a Man weigh impartially as it would be for a Prince to bribe and threaten a Judg to make him judg uprightly Sometimes it is To make Men bethink themselves and put it out of the power of any foolish Humor or unreasonable Prejudice to alienate them from Truth and their own Happiness Add but this to put it out of the power of any Humour or Prejudice of their own or other Mens and I grant the end is good if you can find the means to procure it But why it should not be put out of the Power of other Mens Humour or Prejudice as well as their own wants and will always want a Reason to prove Would it not I beseech you to an indifferent By-stander appear Humour or Prejudice or some thing as bad to see Men who profess a Religion reveal'd from Heaven and which they own contains all in it necessary to Salvation exclude Men from their Communion and persecute them with the Penalties of the Civil Law for not joining in the use of Ceremonies which are no where to be found in that reveal'd Religion Would it not appear Humour or Prejudice or some such thing to a sober impartial Heathen to see Christians exclude and persecute one of the same Faith for things which they themselves confess to be indifferent and not worth the contending for Prejudice Humour Passion Lusts Impressions of Education Reverence and Admiration of Persons Worldly Respects Love of their own Choice and the like to which you justly impute many Mens taking up and persisting in their Religion are indeed good words and so on the other side are these following Truth the right Way inlightning Reason sound Judgment but they signify nothing at all to your purpose till you can evidently and unquestionably shew the World that the latter viz. Truth and the right way c. are always and in all Countries to be found only in the National Church and the former viz. Passion and Prejudice c. only amongst the Dissenters But to go on Sometimes it is To bring Men to take such care as they ought of their Salvation What care is such as Men ought to take whilst they are out of your Church will be hard for you to tell me But you endeavour to explain your self in the following words that they may not blindly leave it to the choice neither of any other Person nor yet of their own Lusts and Passions to prescribe to them what Faith or Worship they shall imbrace You do well to make use of Punishment to shut Passion out of the choice because you know fear of suffering is no Passion But let that pass You would have Men punished to bring them to take such care of their Salvation that they may not blindly leave it to the choice of any other Person to prescribe to them Are you sincere Are you in earnest Tell me then truly Did the Magistrate or National Church any where or yours in particular ever punish any Man to bring him to have this care which you say he ought to take of his Salvation Did you ever punish any
care of their Souls that no other Person might choose for them If it be Truth in general you would have them by Punishments driven to seek that is to offer matter of Dispute and not a Rule of Discipline For to punish any one to make him seek till he sind Truth without a Judg of Truth is to punish for you know not what and is all one as if you should whip a Scholar to make him find out the square Root of a Number you do not know I wonder not therefore that you could not resolve with your self what degree of Severity you would have used nor how long continued when you dare not speak out directly whom you would have punished and are far from being clear to what end they should be under Penalties Consonant to this uncertainty of whom or what to be punished you tell us That there is no question of the Success of this Method Force will certainly do if duly proportioned to the design of it What I pray is the design of it I challeng you or any Man living out of what you have said in your Book to tell me directly what it is In all other Punishments that ever I heard of yet till now that you have taught the World a new Method the Design of them has been to cure the Crime they are denounced against and so I think it ought to be here What I beseech you is the Crime here Dissenting That you say not any where is a Fault Besides you tell us That the Magistrate hath not an Authority to compel any one to his Religion And that you do not require that Men should have no Rule but the Religion of the Country And the Power you ascribe to the Magistrate is given him to bring Men not to his own but to the true Religion If Dissenting be not the Fault is it that a Man does not examine his own Religion and the Grounds of it Is that the Crime your Punishments are designed to cure Neither that dare you say lest you displease more than you satisfy with your new Discipline And then again as I said before you must tell us how far you would have them examin before you punish them for not doing it And I imagine if that were all we required of you it would be long enough before you would trouble us with a Law that should prescribe to every one how far he was to examine Matters of Religion wherein if he fail'd and came short he was to be punished if he perform'd and went in his Examination to the Bounds set by the Law he was acquitted and free Sir when you consider it again you will perhaps think this a case reserv'd to the Great Day when the Secrets of all Hearts shall be laid open For I imagine it is beyond the Power or Judgment of Man in that variety of Circumstances in respect of Parts Tempers Opportunities Helps c. Men are in in this World to determine what is every one's Duty in this great Business of Search Enquiry Examination or to know when any one has done it That which makes me believe you will be of this Mind is that where you undertake for the success of this Method if rightly used it is with a Limitation upon such as are not altogether incurable So that when your Remedy is prepared according to Art which Art is yet unknown and rightly apply'd and given in a due Dose all which are Secrets it will then infallibly cure Whom All that are not incurable by it And so will a Pippin Posset eating Fish in Lent or a Presbyterian Lecture certainly cure all that are not incurable by them For I am sure you do not mean it will cure all but those who are absolutely incurable Because you your self allow one Means left of Cure when yours will not do viz. The Grace of God Your words are What Means is there left except the Grace of God to reduce them but to lay Thorns and Briars in their Way And here also in the place we were considering you tell us The Incurable are to be left to God Whereby if you mean they are to be left to those Means he has ordained for Mens Conversion and Salvation yours must never be made use of For he indeed has prescribed Preaching and Hearing of his Word but as for those who will not hear I do not find any where that he has commanded they should be compell'd or beaten to it There is a third Thing that you are as tâ—…nder and reserv'd in as either naming the Criminal to be punished or positively telling us the End for which they should be punished And that is with what sort of Penalties what degree of Punishment they should be forced You are indeed so pracious to them that you renounce the Severities and Penalâ—…s hithâ—…rto made use of You â—…ell us they should be but 〈◊〉 Penaltiâ—…s But if we ask you what are moderate Penalties you confess you cannot tell us So thâ—…t by Moderate here you yet mean nothing You tell us the outward Force to be apply'd should be duly temper'd But what that due Tempâ—…r is you do not or cannot say and so in effect it signisies just nothing Yet if in this you are not plain and direct all the rest of your Design will signify â—…ing For it being to have some Men and to some End punished Yet if it cannot be found what Punishment is to be used iâ—… 〈◊〉 notwithstanding all you have said utterly useless You tell us modestly That to determine precisely the just measure of the Punishment will require some consideration If the Faults were preciâ—…ly determined and could be provâ—…d it would require no more consideration to determine the Measure of the Punishment in this than it would in â—…ny other casâ—… where those were known But where the Fault is undesined and the Guilt not to be proved as I suppose it will be sound in this present Business of examining it will without doubt require Consideration to proportion the Force to the Design Just so much Consideration as it will require to sit a Coâ—…t to the Moon or proportion a Shooe to the Feet of those who inhabit her For to proportion a Punishment to 〈◊〉 Fault that you do not name and so we in Charity ought to think you do not yet know and a Fault that when you have named it will be imposible to be proved who are or are not guilty of it will I suppose require as much Consideration as to sit a Shooe to Feet whose Size and Shape are not known However you offer some measures whereby to regulate your Punishments which when they are looked into will be sound to be just as good as none they being impossible to be any rule in the case The sirst is So much Force or such Penalties as are or-dinarily sufficient to prevail with men of common discretion and not desperately perverse and
obstinate to weigh matters of Religion carefully and impartially and without which ordinarily they will not do this Where it is to be observed First That who are these men of Common Discretion is as hard to know as to know what is a fit degree of Punishment in the case and so you do but regulate one Uncertainty by another Some men will be apt to think that he who will not weigh matters of Religion which are of infinite concernment to him without Punishment cannot in reason be thought a man of Commâ—…n Discretion Many Women of Common Discretion enough to manage the ordinary Affairs of their Families are not able to read a Page in an ordinary Author or to understand and give an account what it means when read to them Many men of Common Discretion in their Callings are not able to judg when an Argument is conclusive or no much less to trace it through a long train of Consequences What Penalties shall be sufficient to prevail with such who upon examination I â—…ear will not be found to make the least part of Mankind to examine and weigh matters of Religion carefully and impartially The Law allows all to have Common Discretion for whom it has not provided Guardians or Bedlam So that in effect your men of Common Discretion are all men not judg'd Ideots or Madmen And Penalties sufficient to prevail with men of Common Discretion are Penalties sufficient to prevail with all men but Ideots and Mad-men Which what a measure it is to regulate Penalties by let all men of Common Discretion judg Secondly You may be pleased to consider That all men of the same degree of Discretion are not apt to be moved by the same degree of Penalties Some are of a more yielding some of a more stiff Temper and what is sufficient to prevail on one is not half enough to move the other tho both men of Common Discretion So that Common Discretion will be here of no use to determine the measure of Punishment Especially when in the same Clause you except men desperately perverse and obstinate who are as hard to be known as what you seek viz. the just proportitions of Punishments necessary to prevail with men to consider examine and weigh matters of Religion wherein if a man tells you he has consider'd he has weigh'd he has examin'd and so goes on in his former course 't is impossible for you ever to know whether he has done his duty or whether he be desperately perverse and obstinate So that this exception signifies just nothing There are many things in your use of Force and Penalties different from any I ever met with elsewhere One of them this Clause of yours concerning the measure of Punishments now under consideration offers me Wherein you proportion your Punishments only to the yielding and corrigible not to the perverse and obstinate contrary to the Common Discretion which has hitherto made Laws in other cases which levels the Punishments against refractory Offenders and never spares them because they are obstinate This however I will not blame as an oversight in you Your new method which aims at such impracticable and inconsistent things as Laws cannot bear nor Penalties be useful to forced you to it The Uselessness absurdity and unreasonableness of great Severities you had acknowledg'd in the foregoing Paragraphs Dissenters you would have brought to consider by moderate Penalties They lye under them but whether they have consider'd or no for that you cannot tell they still continue Dissenters What is to be done now Why the incurable are to be left to God as you tell us P. 12. Your Punishments were not meant to prevail on the desperately perverse and obstinate as you tell us here And so whatever be the success your Punishments are however justified You have given us in another place something like another boundary to your moderate Penalties But when examined it proves just like the rest trifling only in good words so put together as to have no direct meaning an art very much in use amongst some sort of Learned Men. The words are these Such Penalties as may not tempt persons who have any concern for their Eternal Salvation and those who have none ought not to be considered to renounce a Religion which they believe to be true or profess one which they do not believe to be so If by any concern you mean a true concern for their Eternal Salvation by this rule you may make your Punishments as great as you please and all the severities you have difclaim'd may be brought in play again For none of those will be able to make a man who is truly concerned for his eternal Salvation renounce a Religion he believes to be true or prosess one he does not believe to be so If by those who have any concern you mean such who have some faint wishes for Happiness hereafter and would be glad to have things go well with them in the other world but will venture nothing in this world for it These the moderatest Punishments you can imagine will make change their Religion If by any concern you mean whatever may be between these two the degrees are so infinite that to proportion your Punishments by that is to have no measure of them at all One thing I cannot but take notice of in this passage before I leave it And that is that you say here Those who have no concern for their Salvation deserve not to be considered In other parts of your Letter you pretend to have compassion on the careless and provide remedies for them But here of a sudden your Charity fails you and you give them up to Eternal Perdition without the least regard the least pity and say they deserve not to be considered Our Saviour's Rule was The sick and not the whole need a Physician Your Rule here is Those that are careless are not to be considered but are to be lest to themselves This would seem strange if one did not observe what drew you to it You perceiv'd that if the Magistrate was to use no Punishments but such as would make no body change their Religion he was to use none at all For the careless would be brought to the National Church with any slâ—…ght Punishments and when they are once there you are it seems satisfied and look no further after them So that by your own measures if the Careless and those who have no concern for their Eternal Salvation are to be regarded and taken care of if the Salvation of their Souls is to be promoted there is to be no Punishments used at all And therefore you leave them out as not to be considered There remains yet one thing to be enquired into concerning the measure of the Punishments and that is the length of their duration Moderate Punishments that are continued that men find no end of know no way out of sit heavy and become immoderately uneasie Dissenters you would have
punished to make them consider Your Penalties have had the effect on them you intended they have made them consider and they have done their utmost in considering What now must be done with them They must be punish'd on for they are still Dissenters If it were just if you had reason at first to punish a Dissenter to make him consider when you did not know but that he had considered already it is as just and you have as much reason to punish him on even when he has perform'd what your Punishments was designed for when he has considered but yet remains a Dissenter For I may justly suppose and you must grant that a man may remain a Dissenter after all the consideration your moderate Penalties can bring him to when we see greater Punishments even those Severities you disown as too great are not able to make men consider so far as to be convinced and brought over to the National Church If your Punishments may not be inflicted on men to make them consider who have or may have considered already for ought you know then Dissenters are never to be once punished no more than any other sort of men Iâ—… Dissenters are to 〈◊〉 punished to make them consider whether they have considered or no then their Punishments tho they do consider must never cease as long as they are Dissenters which whether it be to punâ—…sh them only to bring them to consider let all men judg This I am sure Punishments in your method must either never begin upon Dissenters or never cease And so preâ—…end Moderation as you please the Punishments which your method requires must be either very immoderate or none at all And now you having yielded to our Author and that upon very good reasons which you your self urge and which I shall set down in your own words That to prosecute men with Fiâ—…e and Sword or to dâ—…prive them of their Estates to maim them with â—…ral Punishments to starve and tâ—…rture them in noisom Prisons and in the end even to take away their lives to make them Christians is but an â—…ll way of expressing mens desire of the Salvation of thâ—…se whâ—…m they treat in this manner And that it will be very difficult to persâ—…ade men of sense that he who with dry eyes and satisfaction of mind can deliver his Brother to the Executioner to be burnt alive does sincerely and heartily concern himself to save that Brother from the Flames of Hell in the world to câ—…me And that these Methods are so very imprâ—…per in respect to the Design of them that they usually prâ—…duce the quite contrary effect For whereas all the use which Force can have for the advancing true Religion and the Salvation of Souls is as has already been â—…wed by disposing men to submit to Instruction and to give a fair hearing to the Reasons which are offâ—…red for the enlightning their minds and discovering the Truth to them these Cruelties have the misfortune to be commonly look'd upon as so just a prejudice against any Religion that uses them as makes it needless to look any further into it and to tempt men to reject it as both false and detestable without ever vâ—…ucbsafing to consider the rational Grounds and Motives of it This effect they seldom sail to work upon the Sufferers of them and as to the Spectators if they be not before-hand well instructed in those Grounds and Motives they will be much tempted likewise not only to entertain the same opinion of such a Religion but withal to judg much more favourably of that of the Sufferers who they will be apt to think would not expâ—…se themselves to such extremities which they might avoid by compliance if they were not throughly satisfied of the Justice of their Cause And upon these Reasons you conclude That these Severities are utterly unapt and improper for the bringing men to embrace that Truth which must save them Again you having acknowledged That the Authority of the Magistrate is not an Authority to compel any one to his Religion And again That the rigor of Laws and force of Penalties are not capable to convince and change mens minds And yet further That you do not require that men should have no rule but the Religion of the Court or that they should be put under a necessity to quit the light of their own Reason and oppose the dictates of their own consciences and blindly resign up themselves to the will of their Governors but that the Power you ascribe to the Magistrate is given him to bring mâ—…n not to his own but to the true Religion Now you having I say granted this whereby you directly condemn and abolish all Laws that have been made here or any where else that ever I heard of to compel men to Conformity I think the Author and whosoever else are most for Liberty of Conscience might be content with the Toleration you allow by condemning the Laws about Religion now in force and rest satisfied until you had made your new Method consistent and practicable by telling the World plainly and directly 1. Who are to be Punished 2. For what 3. With what Punishments 4. How long 5. What Advantage to true Religion it would be if Magistrates every where did so punish 6. And lastly Whence the Magistrate had Commission to do so When you have done this plainly and intelligibly without keeping in the uncertainty of general expressions and without supposing all along your Church in the right and your Religion the true which can no more be allow'd to you in this case whatever your Church or Religion be than it can be to a Papist or a Lutheran a Presbyterian or an Anabaptist nay no more to you than it can be allowid to a Jew or a Mahometan when I say you have by setling these Points fram'd the parts of your new Engine set it together and shew'd that it will work without doing more harm than good in the world I think then men may be content to submit to it But imagining this and an Engine to shew the perpetual Motion will be found out together I think Toleration in a very good state notwithstanding your answer wherein you having said so much for it and for ought I see nothing against it unless an impracticable Chimera be in your opinion something mightily to be apprehended We have now seen and examined the main of your Treatise and therefore I think I might here end without going any farrher But that you may not think your self or any of your Arguments neglected I will go over the remainder and give you my thoughts on every thing I shall meet with in it that seems to need any answer In one place you argue against the Author thus If then the Author's Fourth Proposition as you call it viz. That Force is of no use for promoting true Religion and the Salvation of Souls be not true as perhaps by this time it appears
it is not then the last Proposition which is built upon it must fall with it Which last Proposition is this viz. That no body can have any right to use any outward Force or Compulsion to bring men to the true Religion and so to Salvation If this Proposition were built as you alledg upon that which you call his fourth then indeed if the fourth fell this built upon it would fall with it But that not being the Author's Proposition as I have shew'd nor this built wholly on it but on other Reasons as I have already prov'd and any one may see in several parts of his Letter particularly P. 7 8 and 9. what you alledg falls of it self The business of the next Paragraph is to prove That if Force be useful then somebody must certainly have a right to use it The first Argument you go about to prove it by is this That Usefulness is as good an Argument to prove there is somewhere a right to use it as Uselessness is to prove no body has such a right If you consider the things of whose Usefulness or Uselessness we are speaking you will perhaps be of another mind It is Punishment or Force used in punishing Now all Punishment is some evil some inconvenience some suffering by taking away or abridging some good thing which he who is punished has otherwise a right to Now to justifie the bringing any such evil upon any man two things are requisite First That he who does it has Commission and Power so to do Secondly That it be directly useful for the procuring some greater good Whatever Punishment one man uses to another without these two conditions whatever he may pretend proves an injury and injustice and so of right ought to have been let alone And therefore though Usefulness which is one of the conditions that makes Punishments just when it is away may hinder Punishments from being lawful in any bodies hands yet Usefulness when present being but one of those conditions cannot give the other which is a Commission to punish without which also Punishment is unlawful From whence it follows That tho useless Punishment be unlawful from any hand yet useful Punishment from every hand is not lawful A man may have the Stone and it may be useful more than indirectly and at a distance useful to him to be cut but yet this usefulness will not justifie the most skilful Chirurgeon in the world by Force to make him endure the pain and hazard of Cutting because he has no commission no right without the Patients own consent to do so Nor is it a good Argument Cutting will be useful to him therefore there is a right somewhere to cut him whether he will or no. Much less will there be an Argument for any right if there be only a possibility that it may prove useful indirectly and by accident Your other Argument is this If Force or Punishment be of necessary use then it must be acknowledged that there is a right somewhere to use it unless we will say what without impiety cannot be said That the wise and benign Disposer and Governour of all things has not furnished mankind with competent means for the promoting his own honour in the world and the good of souls If your way of arguing be true 't is demonstration that Force is not of necessary use For I argue thus in your form We must acknowledg Force not to be of necessary use unless we will say what without impiety cannot be said that the wise Disposer and Governour of all things did not for above 300 years after Christ furnish his Church with competent means for promoting his own honour in the world and the good of souls 'T is for you to consider whether these Arguments be conclusive or no. This I am sure the one is as conclusive as the other But if your supposed Usefulness places a right somewhere to use it pray tell me in whose hands it places it in Turky Persia or China or any Country where Christians of dâ—…fferent Churches live under a Heathen or Mahometan Sovereign And if you cannot tell me in whose hands it places it there as I believe you will find it pretty hard to do there are then it seems some places where upon your supposition of the necessary usefulness of Force the wise and benign Governour and Disposer of all things has not furnish'd mâ—…n with competent means for promoting his own honour and the good of Souls unless you will grant that the wise and benign Disposer and Governour of all things bath for the prâ—…moting of his honour and the good of souls placed a power in Mah metan or Heathen Princes to punish Christians to bring them to consider Reasons and Arguments proper to convince them But this is the advantage of so sine an invention as that of Force dâ—…ing some Service indirectly and at a distance which Usefulness if we may believe you places a right in Mahometan or Pagan Princes hands to use force upon Christians for fear lest mankind in those Countries should be unfurnish'd with means for the promoting God's honour and the good of souls For thus you argue If there be so great use of Force then there is a right somewhere to use it And if there be such a right somewhere where should it be but in the Civil Sovereign Who can deny now but that you have taken care great care for the promoting of Truth and the Christian Religion But yet it is as hard for me I consess and I believe for others to conceive how you should think to do any service to Truth and the Christian Religion by putting a right into Mahometans or Heathens hands to punish Christians as it was for you to conceive how the Author should think to do any service to Truth and the Christian Religion by exempting the Professors of it from Punishment every where Since there are more â—…agan Mahometan and erroneous Princes in the world than Orthodox Truth and the Christian Religion taking the world as we find it is sure to be more punished and suppress'd than Error and Falshood The Author having endeavour'd to shew that no body at all of any rank or condition had a power to punish torment or use any man ill for matters of Religion you tell us you do not yet understand why Clergy-men are not as capable of such Power as other Men. I do not remember that the Author any where by excepting Ecclesâ—…sticks more than others gâ—…ve you any occasion to shew your concern in this point Had he â—…seen that this would have touch'd you so nearly and that you set your hâ—…t so much upon the lergys Power of punishing 't is like hâ—… 〈◊〉 have told you he thought Ecclesâ—…sticks as capable of it as any Men and that if forwardness and diligence in the exercise of such Power may recommend any to it Clergy-men in the Opinion of the World stand sairest for it However you
do well to put in your claim for them tho the Author excludes them no more than their Neighbours Nay they must be allow'd the pretence of the fairest Title For I never read of any seâ—…es that were to bring Men to Christ but those of the Law of Mâ—… which is therefore call'd a Pedâ—…gue Gal. 3 14. And the next Verse tells us That aftâ—…r that Faith is câ—…e 〈◊〉 are no longer under a School-master But yet if we are still to be driven to Christ by a Rod I shall not envy them the pleasure of wiâ—…ng it only 〈◊〉 desire them when they have got the Scourge into their Hands to remember our Saviour and sollow his Example who never us'd it but once and that they would like him imploy it only to drive vile and seandâ—…ons Trasikers for the things of this World out of their Church râ—…ther than to drive whoever they can into it Whether that latter be not a proper method to make their Church what our Saviour there pronounced of the â—…emple they who use it were best look For in matters of Religion none are so easy to be so driven as those who have nothing of Religion at all and next to them the Vicious the Ignorant the Worldling and the Hypocrite Who care for no more of Religion but the Name nor no more of any Church but its Prosperity and Power and who not unlike those describ'd by our Saviour Luke 20.47 for a shew come to or cry up the Prayers of the Church That they may devâ—…ur Widows and other helpless People's houses I say not this of the serious Professors of any Church who are in earnest in matters of Religion Such I value who conscientiously and out of a sincere Perswasion imbrace any Religion tho different from mine and in a way I think mistaken But no body can have reason to think otherwise than what I have said of those who are wrought upon to be of any Church by secular hopes and fears Those truly place Trade above all other Considerations and Merchandize with Religion it self who regulate their choice by worldly Profit and Loss You endeavour to prove against the Author that Civil Society is not instituted only for Civil Ends i. e. The procuring preserving and advancing Mens Civil Interests Your words are I must say that our Author does but beg the Question when he affirms that the Commonwealth is constituted only for the procuring preserving and advancing of the Civil Interests of the Members of it That Commonwealths are instituted for these Ends no Man will deny But if there be any other ends besides these attainable by the Civil Society and Government there is no reason to affirm That these are the only ends for which they are designed Doubtless Common-wealths are instituted for the attaining of all the Benefits which Political Government can yield And therefore if the Spiritual and Eternal Interests of Men may any way be procured or advanced by Political Government the procuring and advancing those Interests must in all reason be reckon'd among the Ends of Civil Societies and so consequently fall within the compass of the Magistrates Jurisdiction I have set down your words at large to let the Reader see That you of all Men had the least reason to tell the Author he does but beg the Question unless you mean to justify your self by the pretence of his Example You argue thus If there be any other Ends attainable by Civil Society then Civil Interests are not the only Ends for which Commonwealths are instituted And how do you prove there be other ends Why thus Doubtless Commonwealths are instituted for the attaining all the Benefits which Political Government can yeild Which is as clear a Demonstration as Doubtless can make it to be The Question is Whether Civil Society be instituted only for Civil Ends You say No and your proof is Because Doubtless it is instituted for other Ends. If I now say Doubtless this is a good argument is not every one bound without more ado to admit it for such If not Doubtless you are in danger to be thought to beg the Question But notwithstanding you say here That the Author begs the Question In the following Page you tell us That the Author offer three Considerations which seem to him abundantly to demonstrate that the Civil Power neither can nor ought in any manner to be extended to the Salvation of Souls He does not then beg the Question For the Question being Whether Civil Interest be the only End of Civil Society he gives this reason for the Negative That Civil Power has nothing to do with the Salvation of Souls and offers three Considerations for the proof of it For it will always be a good consequence that if the Civil Power has nothing to do with the Salvation of Souls then Civil Interest is the only End of Civil Society And the reason of it is plain Because a Man having no other Interest but either in this World or the World to come if the End of Civil Society reach not to a Man's Interest in the other World all which is comprehended in the Salvation of his Soul 't is plain that the sole End of Civil Society is Civil Interest under which the Author comprehends the good things of this World And now let us examine the Truth of your main Position viz. That Civil Society is instituted for the attaining all the Benefits that it may any way yeild Which if true then this Position must be true viz. That all Societies whatsoever are instituted for the attaining all the Benefits that they may any way yeild there being nothing peculiar to Civil Society in the Case why that Society should be instituted for the attaining all the Benefits it can any way yeild and other Societies not By which Argument it will follow That all Societies are instituted for one and the same End i. e. for the attaining all the Benefits that they can any way yeild By which account there will be no difference between Church and State A Commonwealth and an Army or between a Family and the East-India Company all which have hitherto been thought distinct sorts of Societies instituted for different Ends. If your Hypothesis hold good one of the Ends of the Family must be to Preach the Gospel and Administer the Sacraments and one business of an Army to teach Languages and propâ—…gate Religion because these are Benefits some way or other attainable by those Societies Unless you take want of Commission and Authority to be a sufficient Impediment And that will be so too in other cases 'T is a benefit to have true Knowledg and Philosophy imbraced and assented to in any Civil Society or Government But will you say therefore that it is a benefit to the Society or one of the Ends of Government that all who are not Peripateticks should be punished to make Men find out the Truth and prosess it This indeed might be thought a fit
the Magistrate For if it be the Power of the Magistrate it is his And what need the People vest it in him unless there be need and it be the best course they can take to vest a Power in the Magistrate which he has already 2dly Another pleasant thing you here say is That the Power of the Magistrates is to bring men to such a care of their Salvation that they may not blindly leave it to the choice of any person or their own lusts or passions to prescribe to them what faith or worship they shall imbrace And yet that 't is their best course to vest a Power in the Magistrate liable to the same lusts and passions as themselves to chuse for them For if they vest a Power in the Magistrate to punish them when they dissent from his Religion to bring them to act even against their own inclination according to reason and sound judgment which is as you explain your self in another place to bring them to consider Reasons and Arguments proper and sufficient to convince them How far is this from leaving it to the choice of another man to prescribe to them what Faith or Worship they shall imbrace Especially if we consider that you think it a strange thing That the Author would have the care of every man's Soul left to himself alone So that this care being vested in the Magistrate with a Power to punish men to make them consider Reasons and Arguments proper and sufficient to convince them of the Truth of his Religion the choice is evidently in the Magistrate As much as it can be in the power of one man to chuse for another what Religion he shall be of which consists only in a Power of compelling him by Punishments to embrace it I do neither you nor the Magistrate Injury when I say that the Power you give the Magistrate of punishing men to make them consider reasons and arguments proper and sufficient to convince them is to convince them of the truth of his Religion and to bring them to it For Men will never in his opinion Act according to Reason and sound Judgment which is the thing you here say Men should be brought to by the Magistrate even against their own Inclination till they imbrace his Religion And if you have the brow of an Honest Man you will not say the Magistrate will ever punish you to bring you to consider any other Reasons and Arguments but such as are proper to convince you of the truth of his Religion and to bring you to that Thus you shift forwards and backwards You say The Magistrate has no Power to punish Men to compel them to his Religion but only to compel them to consider Reasons and Arguments proper to convince them of the truth of his Religion which is all one as to say no Body has Power to chuse your way for you to Jerusalem But yet the Lord of the Mannor has Power to punish you to bring you to consider Reasons and Arguments proper and sufficient to convince you of what That the way he goes in is the right and so to make you joyn in Company and go along with him So that in effect what is all your going about but to come at last to the same place again and put a Power into the Magistrate's hands under another pretence to compel Men to his Religion which use os Force the Author has sufficiently overthrown and you your self have quitted But I am tired to follow you so often round the same Circle You speak of it here as the most deplorable Condition imaginable that Men should be left to themselves and not be forced to consider and examine the Grounds of their Religion and search impartially and diligently after the truth This you make the great miscarriage of Mankind And for this you seem solicitous all through your Treatise to find out a Remedy and there is scarce a Leaf wherein you do not offer yours But what if after all now you should be found to prevaricate Men have contrived to themselves say you a great variety of Religions 'T is granted They seek not the Truth in this matter with that Application of Mind and that freedom of Judgment which is requisite 'T is confessed All the false Religions now on foot in the World have taken their rise from the slight and partial Consideration which Men have contented themselves with in searching after the true and Men take them up and persist in them for want of due Examination Be it so There is need of a Remedy for this and I have found one whose Success cannot be questioned Very well What is it Let us hear it Why Dissenters must be punished Can any Body that hears you say so believe you in earnest and that want of Examination is the thing you would have amended when want of Examination is not the thing you would have punished If want of Examination be the fault want of Examination must be punished if you are as you pretend fully satisfied that Punishment is the proper and only means to remedy it But if in all your Treatise you can shew me one place where you say That the Ignorant the Careless the Inconsiderate the Negligent in examining throughly the truth of their own and others Religion c. are to be punished I wâ—…ll allow your remedy for a good one But you have not said any thing like this and which is more I tell you before hand you dare not say it And whilst you do not the World has reason to judg that however want of Examination be a general Fault which you with great Vehemency have exaggerated yet you use it only for a pretence to punish Dissenters and either distrust your remedy that it will not cure this Evil or else care not to have it generally cur'd This evidently appears from your whole management of the Argument And he that reads your Tâ—…eatise with attention will be more confirm'd in this Opinion when he shall find that you who are so earnest to have Men punished to bring them to consider and examine that so they may discover the way to Salvation have not said one word of considering searching and hearkening to the Scripture which had been as good a rule for a Christian to have sent them to as to Reasons and Arguments prâ—…per to convince them of you know not what As to the Inâ—…ction and Government of the proper Ministers of Religion which who they are Men are yet â—…ar from being agreed Or as to the â—…formation of â—…hose who tell them they have mistakâ—…n their way and offer to shew them the right and to the like uncertain and dangerous Guides whâ—…ch were not those that our Saviour and the Apostles sent Men to but to the Scriptures Sâ—…arch the Scriptures for in them you think you have â—…nal Life says our Saviour to the unbelieving persecuting Jews 〈◊〉 5.39 And 't is the Scriptures which St. Pauls says