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A76286 Planes apokalypsis. Popery manifested, or, the Papist incognito made known by way of dialogue betwixt a Papist priest, Protestant gentleman, and Presbyterian divine. In two parts. Intended for the good of those that shall read it by L. B. P. Beaulieu, Luke, 1644 or 5-1723. 1673 (1673) Wing B1574B; ESTC R232440 78,493 144

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ΠΛΑΝΗΣ ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ POPERY MANIFESTED OR THE Papist Incognito made known By way of DIALOGUE Betwixt A Papist Priest Protestant Gentleman and Presbyterian Divine In Two Parts Intended for the good of those that shall read it By L. B. P. LONDON Printed for Henry Brome at the Gun at the West End of S. Pauls 1673. TO THE Christian Courteous and Impartial READER I Would fain oblige thee in the beginning of my Book because possibly the rest will not please thee so well Therefore instead of a Preface or a short Advertisement wherewith usually the Reader is put off I give thee an Epistle Dedicatory This I hope will prove acceptable in that it is a new device and also because thou mayst have very cheap the Honour of having had a Book Dedicated to thee But yet besides I assure thee that this Book of itself is worth thy reading for it will make thee see in their natural shape and colours many things which before appeared only under a disguise and if thou art a Lover of Truth as all pretend to be thou canst not but rejoice to see it come out from under the Cloud where before it lay hid And withal thou mayst use it as an Antidote against the Infection of some sugared Poisons which many venture to drink of not knowing their deadly Qualities Therefore I require thee that thou wouldest not fling away the Book as soon as thou findest some things in it against thy former persuasions or thy present liking for oftentimes wholesom Physic is the most unpleasant and if thou readest through and then repentest of thy labour I give it here under my hand that I also will repent of mine but if the Book doth work upon thee the good effect I intended all the Requital I expect is this that as thou art unknown to the Author so thou wouldest not enquire after him because he is unwilling to be known any otherwise than by being Thy Real Friend and Affectionate Well-wisher L. B. P. THE PREFACE MAny Learned Books have been written against the Errors of the Church of Rome by several worthy Champions of the Church of England but usually they read them most that have least need of them while in the mean time they that have but little of knowledge are left unarmed against the Crafts and Subtilties of the Propagators of the Roman Faith I know there is an in-bred Aversion to Popery in the major part of our People but Popery is now a word of a very dubious signification and means rather what every one dislikes than what is so indeed and it is to be seen in the second part of this Book that they that exclaim'd most against what they pleased to call Popery ran themselves into the worst of Popish Errors However 't is not a brutish Hatred or a blind Zeal against unknown Errors can secure us from them A man may easily embrace his mortal Enemy if he knows him not or if he meets him under a disguise Jesuites are Travesty among us and so is their Doctrine they put a strange garb as well upon their Opinions as upon their Persons and I am confident they win more Proselytes by mis-representing the Popish Religion than by proving it to be true Therefore that they might no longer be imposed upon that have not the leisure or the capacity of knowing what the Papists do really believe contrary to that sound and orthodox Doctrine which is profest in the Church of England I have here set down their real Opinions taken out of their most approved Doctors and the Council of Trent itself having transcrib'd their very words without any the least alteration and then Englisht them as faithfully as their sense did require And afterwards I have added some of those places of Scripture which I thought most express against those Errors which our Church hath rejected as being contrary to Gods Word and the Faith of the Primitive Church Now if any man likes those Doctrines of the Church of Rome as they are really in themselves and as they stand in opposition to the Word of God let him embrace them if it so please him but let none flatter himself or be made to believe by others that the Popish Tenets I have mentioned are not so bad as I represent them for I have used the very Words and Expressions of their own Authors which certainly could not be made either better or worse by being transcrib'd by me Perhaps I shall be censur'd for having writ my Book Dialogue-wise and not well manag'd the Intrigue but if they that find fault with this like the matter let them not mind the form if not I had as lieve they should dislike both as but one onely My design was not to make a Dramatic Piece but to make my Actors speak truth This way of writing is easie to the meanest capacities and I am minded to imitate at least in the method that excellent Dialogue called the F.D. However if I can profit those that shall read me I little care whether I please them or not And now if it may be lawful for a Controvertist to moralize a little give me leave to tell thee Dear Reader that what I have written is not to engage thee into Disputes and Religious Quarrels I had rather thou shouldest read The whole Duty of Man and the excellent Discourse which that pious Author hath written against Disputes in his Decay of Christian Piety than this Book of mine By discovering the foul stains of those Religions that make shew of a fair and specious outside my design is not to teach thee how to rail at them or wrangle with their followers But to make thee love and obey that holy Religion which is taught in the Church of England and which promiseth rewards to her followers not for hating those that are of different Persuasions but for obeying the Precepts of Christ If thou art an ill liver no matter what Religion thou art of thy recompence shall be according to thy Works if not thy Creed and a Good Life will do thy soul more good than much Knowledge and Activity in what concerns the Differences among Christians in points of Religion And if thou dost ask me why therefore I should meddle with them and not be wholly employed in the performance of good Works I answer somewhat like as Aphraates did Valens when he came into Antioch to oppose himself to the then prevailing Error of Arius and the Emperor askt him why he had left his Religious Retirement to come into the City Niceph. l. 11. c. 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. When the flock of Christ is in danger of being seduced it behoves me also to do my utmost endeavour for its Preservation And when my heavenly Fathers house is set on fire I will by all means endeavour to quench it and fling water upon it though it were but one drop Imprimatur Tho. Tomkyns Ex Aed Lambethanis Decemb. 13. 1672. Popery Manifested AND THE
you that we have no hopes of you as you are Papists Those Articles wherein you differ from us shall greatly indanger but in no wise advance your Salvation What makes us admit of a possibility of your being sav'd is because you hold still the same Creed with us and because though you have much shaken and weakned yet ye have not quite overthrown the Foundation that is Jesus Christ and his saving merits which we hope will avail to those of your Church that trust in them though they ignorantly believe those things as would make them ineffectual if understood or relied on As for your so much cryed up Succession it signifies no more than this that now the Pope is Bishop of the same Town as St. Peter was or at least a Town of the same name for old Rome hath been destroyed long agone But pray supposing that St. Peters Successors were to be the Heads of the Church who told you that he did not leave that priviledge at Antioch where his Sea was first How many Ruptures and Schisms hath there been in your Succession and how many hath there been of your Popes guilty of the greatest Impieties and worst of Heresies Your own Authors can inform you as also how good and bad Orthodox and Heretick Bishops have succeeded one another in all Seas But make the best of it as you can what is it to the truth or untruth of those points we differ about Because now _____ sits in the same Chair as St. Peter did therefore there is a Purgatory and men ought to Worship Images and the Pope is infallible c. A very Logical Inference as good as that of the man who because he sate in Tullies Pew would needs perswade himself and others that he had Tullies Eloquence But there is Miracles daily wrought in your Church by some Saint or other 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 This is something indeed but 't is common to all Religions Monsieur Bernier a man of your Church will tell you as an eye-witness of it that the Turks and Gentiles pretend to the same and are more perswaded of the truth of their Miracles than I believe many in your Church are of the truth of yours But let me tell you that Miracles are for Infidels not for Believers St. Paul could not heal Trophimus to him a beloved Christian though among the Unbelievers he could even raise up the dead We believe the Religion Preached by the blessed Apostles upon the account of those Miracles they wrought when they were yet alive without their Reliques and Images work the same wonders now we are perswaded of the truth of what they then delivered And the truth is you are so your selves You don't pretend your new Miracles to confirm those Essential Doctrines of the Christian Religion which you and we are agreed about Your greatest Miracle-mongers have hardly reported any one Miracle wrought these five or six hundred years in these parts of the World to authorize Christian Religion or to prove the Doctrine of the blessed Trinity or of the two Natures united in Christ into one person about which points were most of the ancient Heresies or any one Article of the Creed they are all to confirm your new-found Doctrines The Cures as the Saints work upon those that worship their Images the appearing of dead Folks to beg for Masses and Prayers the return of Souls out of Purgatory to tell how hot the fire is and how well worth ones money Indulgences are the wonders done by your Fryars or the Founders of their Orders or of some one who is to be Canonized and most of them so ridiculous and so absurd that I believe the most serious Bigot amongst you can hardly hold laughing at the reading of your Legends and Books of Miracles And so of those three things you so much relied on the first is against you the second signifies nothing and the last exposeth to contempt those Doctrines it should justifie P. Well I did not think that you could say so much for your selves and I assure you I shall hereafter have a better opinion of you than ever I had thus much at least shall I be profited by our long Discourse and now Sir fare you well I thank G. Nay don't thank me 't is I should thank you for telling me so plainly those Doctrines of your Church we disagree about and which usually you so misrepresent to those of our Religion that they hardly ever know the truth of what your Church believes But pray don't go away yet I 'll help you to that company as you will like much better than mine I 'll tell you whose 't is when first I have desired these two things of you First that you would consider how greatly suspicious it is that your Church maintains those Doctrines we call Errours more for their profitableness to her than for any other reasons because they all tend to the increasing of her Riches or Authority The Popes Infallibility and his Power of disposing of all the World for the good of Souls the exemption of the Clergy from the power of the Civil Magistrate the requisiteness of their intention in the administring of your Sacraments how powerful how honourable and withal how dreadful must the belief of these make your Church and Church-men The Doctrine of Purgatory of Jubilees Pardons Indulgences and worshipping of Saints the best part whereof is the offering to them what Estates what Riches what a world of profit doth it bring to the Head and all the Members of your Clergy In those points of Christian Religion that concern not her Interest your Church is sound and Orthodox those beggerly Heresies of the Arians Eutichian Macedonians c. are condemned and detested by her as much as ever they were by the first Councils yours are Golden Errours if they are gross and palpable yet they are profitable and advantageous The Pope is none of those mean Souls that will hold erroneous Opinions meerly out of perverseness and obstinacy Si Jus violandum c. si Religio adulteranda regnandi causa if he errs at least he shall reign by it And so now reciprocally the Popes Greatness is the best argument to maintain those Errours whereby he got it the splendor of his own and the interest he hath in the Courts of several Princes the dependency all the Clergy hath upon him the numerous Legions of Souldiers he hath quartered in all Abbeys and Monasteries and the influence they have upon the common people his Inquisitions and his Ravilliacks these be the best proofs to evidence the truth of those Doctrines we have rejected as well as to uphold his Pontifical Chair over the Throne of Christian Princes The other is that remaining in the Communion of your Church you would think those the most substantial Articles of your Faith which were delivered by the Apostles confirm'd by the first Councils and now believ'd by you and us together and that upon them you would
Papist Incognito made known By way of DIALOGUE between a Papist Priest a Protestant Gentleman and a Presbyterian Divine The First Part. P. SIr your humble servant I come to wait you upon a double account to give you thanks for the Civilities I have heretofore received from you and to spend in the best Company I can that short time I am allow'd to stay in England G. I protest Master it grieves me that contrary to our inclination we should be forc'd to be thus severe against you for to secure the peace of the kingdom And were it not that your Religion stands in opposition to the good and peaceable intentions which I believe some of you may have I do protest that I my self would heartily intercede for your staying and living quietly with us However you are very welcome P. Sir I know you to be of a very sweet nature by a long experience and I will requite your kindness by praying heartily for your conversion to the true Catholic Faith G. Master I thank you for your good will but I believe if your Prayers be heard I shall never be of your Religion for if it hath the truth yet therewith ye have mixt so many false Doctrins particular to your own Church that it can never be justly call'd The true Catholic Faith P. Sir you speak as you have been taught but did you well understand those things as you call false Doctrines I am sure you would be of another mind G. Well we are entred ab abrupto upon a Subject that will help us to pass away the time therefore I desire you my good Friend for our old acquaintance sake to let me know positively the truth of what your Church believes in the chiefest things we differ from you as it is taught and recorded by your most approved Doctors P. I will with all my heart as far as I am able and that you may not think I disguise any thing or speak my private Opinions I will bring the very words of the Council of Trent or Bellarmin or Stapleton as the Authentic Proofs of the truth of what I shall say ask you what you have a mind to know G. First let me enquire of what you believe concerning the Holy Scripture for we make it the Ground and the Rule of our Faith being persuaded that it conteins all things necessary to Salvation P. We are much of another mind for we hold that the Scripture doth not expresly contein all that is necessary to be believed or to be done i.e. Bellar. de Verbo Dei l. 4. c. 3. that its Doctrine is defective in what concerns Faith and Morality Nos asserimus in Scripturis non contineri expresse totam doctrinam necessariam sive de fide sive de moribus G. That 's very plain and I believe more than you dare say to those you endeavour to make your Proselytes P. Nay Sir before we proceed I must tell you that I expect you would render me like for like and cite the words of Cranmer or Calvin or whatever Authors they are you have your Doctrine from that it may be seen which of us hath the better Authorities for our several Opinions pray who taught you that all things necessary to salvation are contein'd in Scripture G. Our Blessed Saviour who approved the Jews opinion of believing that by the Scriptures they might have eternal life and therefore commanded them to search them John 5.39 Search the Scriptures for in them ye think ye have eternal life and they are they which testifie of me And more expresly S. Paul who affirms that they are able to make us wise unto salvation 2 Tim. 3.15 c. being inspir'd by God These two Texts are of more weight with me than the contrary affirmations of twenty Cardinals And as for the Authors of our Religion we own none besides Christ and his blessed Apostles Those Doctrines of our Church which are positive are plainly contein'd in Scripture and the best Records of the Primitive Church and are own'd and believ'd by you also and the negatives which are against your Innovations can neither be disprov'd by Scripture nor the Antient Fathers but are generally included in the positive All this is to be seen in the learned labours of many of the Reformed Doctors I will not make our Discourse so tedious as to rehearse what they have said upon that subject therefore I desire you to be contented with a few plain Scriptures which I will bring to authorize our denying those Articles of your Roman Faith we have rejected P. Well do so if you will but let me tell you that Scripture is not to be the judge of Differences in Religion 'T is the Pope and Council must decide all Controversies and declare the true sense of Scripture Bellar. de Verbo Dei l. 3. c. 3. Judicem dicimus veri sensus Scripturae omnium Controversiarum esse Ecclesiam id est Pontificem cum Concilio G. I don't believe it for I find that God sends his People to the Law and to the Testimony to examin the Doctrine of the Prophets Isa 8.20 and I hope the Gospel may as well have the Privilege that by it we should examin the Doctrin of the Pope Christ tells the Saducees that they creed because they knew not the Scriptures Mar. 12.24 Luke 16.29 It is said in the Parable of Dives They have Moses and the Prophets let them hear them And it is recorded to the praise of the people of Berea that they searched the Scriptures daily to see whether those things were so Acts 17.11 In all these the Scripture is made Judge of Controversies and by it the Doctrin of S. Paul himself is tried and examined P. But for all that the Scripture is very obscure and harder to be understood than the Notions of Metaphysic Bellar. de Verbo Dei l. 3. c. 1. Certe si scientia Metaphysicorum difficilior quomodo non obscurissima erit Scriptura quae de rebus longe altioribus agit And if the People should read it it would do them more harm than good for 't would be an occasion of their falling into error about those Doctrines that concern Faith and a good Life Et ibid. l. 2. c. ●5 Populum non solum non eaperet fructum ex Scripturis sed etiam caperet detrimentum acciperet enim facillime occasionem errandi tum in doctrina fidei tum in praeceptis vitae morum Therefore all men ought to follow the Decisions of Popes and Councils that they may be guided in the truth G. Nay I would have the people follow the judgment of the Church they live in but I would have them to make use of their Rationality to chuse the Communion of the purest Church according to the Word of God and if they have learning enough according to the four first General Councils and the Primitive Christians and not deny their Reason and the plain
meaning of Scripture and make themselves blind that they may be led by those that pretend to Infallibility and a supreme Authority in things of Faith As for the Decisions of your Popes and Councils it hath been observed by learned men of ours that they are also subject to mis-interpretation and that they have not been able so much as to compose any one of those Differences that have been and are still amongst you And indeed why should not God speak as plain as the Pope in what is absolutely necessary to be known Is it because he is not able or because he is not willing we should know the truth But Friend whilst you tax the Scripture with obscurity and make the people think 't is a dangerous Book see whether you do ●ot give the lie to God himself who saith Ps 19 7 8. The ●aw of the Lord is perfect converting the soul the Testimony of the Lord is sure making wise the simple according to Rome it should have been making the simple to err The Statutes of the Lord are right rejoycing the heart the commandment of the Lord is pure enlightning the eye not blinding or darkning the eye Psal 119 105. In another place Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path Could any thing be more express against the charge of obscurity 2 Cor. 4.3 4. And so S. Paul saith If our Gospel be hid it is hid to them that perish in whom the God of this world hath blinded the minds lest the light of the glorious Gospel of Christ who is the image of God should shine unto them It seems the Gospel hath a light that shines unto men and the devil endeavours to blind them that they may not see it and whether the Pope be not an useful instrument to that effect let them judge that are not yet quite blind Sure if there was so great a danger in reading the Scriptures God would not have commanded his people so absolutely to study his Law Christ would not have preached to the multitudes for his words might be misinterpreted as well spoken as written and the Apostles should not have directed their Epistles to all the people of Corinth Ephesus c. We should rather have been forbidden searching the Scriptures and sent to his Holiness to know what we must believe and do P. Sir you are tedious in your Reasons and Proofs and whereas I cite only one of our approved Doctors at a time and that in few words you bring me I don't know how many places of Scripture I had rather you would tell me what Luther or the Church of Geneva have resolv'd in these Controversies G. 'T would be to no purpose for we regard not their opinions nor those of any private men but as far as they agree with the truth Our Church is founded upon that Catholic and unchangeable truth which God hath revealed in the Sacred Books and which hath been and is still entertain'd by all those that own the Fundamentals of Christianity Therefore as I have told you 't will be the shortest way for me to back those Doctrins of our Church which oppose any of yours by the authority of Gods Revelations his most Holy Word which is a sufficient foundation for us to ground our faith upon P. As far as I can see you are run a great way off from us for we as many as own the Pope to be the Head and Monarch of the Church never mind what the Scripture saith we follow blind-fold the Judgment of our Church as a most infallible guide Bellar. de Rom. Pont. l. 4. c. ● We believe that neither the Pope nor the particular Church of Rome can err in things of Faith Non solum Pontifex Romanus non potest errare in fide sed neque Romana particularis Ecclesia No Sir take it from Bellarmin Bellar. de Eccles l. ● c. 14. It is absolutely impossible that the Church should err in any thing whether it be necessary or not Nostra est sententia Ecclesiam absolute non posse errare nec in rebus absolute necessariis nec in aliis G. And you Sir take it from experience that the Church of Rome could and hath greatly erred in many things if it be an error to make huge additions to the antient Creeds and to go directly against the Word of God And though it be impossible that ever the Universal Church should forsake and deny the saving truths of Christian Religion because of the Promise of Christ Matth. 16.18 Yet any one particular Church or Society of Christians though never so great may err and that in Fundamentals as we know of some Pseudo-Councils that have broach'd or confirm'd damnable Heresies And accordingly the Scripture saith Rom. 3.4 Let God be true and every man a liar the Bishop of Rome himself is not excepted And doubtless if the Church of Rome was infallible and the only guide that can lead us to heaven God who hath revealed to us the way to happiness would not have omitted so essential a thing But instead of a command wholly to rely on the judgment of the Pope speaking ex Cathedra we are commanded to prove all things 1 Thess 5 2● 1 Joh. 4.1 and to hold fast that which is good and again to try the spirits whether they be of God because many false Prophets are come out into the world Now how shall we try them but by the Word of God and if we find you do not follow it why should we any longer follow you Find me as many Texts out of Gods Word to prove that your great Bishop is infallible and that we are all bound to believe every thing he saith as I have produc'd already for the Divine Authority of Scripture and its sufficiency to bring us unto Salvation and then we 'll weigh them together and my faith shall follow the heavier Scale But when we prove and demonstrate that you err and go directly against Scripture for you to come and say that it is impossible because you are infallible and free from all error is to my thinking a very odd and unsatisfactory answer P. Well if you talk of Scripture till to morrow I am sure ours is the Antient Catholic Church without the which there is no salvation But your Religion is a new upstart you cannot shew me where it was and the Professors of it two hundred years ago G. As for the Professors where they were and that there were many even in the highth of Popery is a long Historical labour but ready done to my hand by several learned men the Author of Catalogus testium Verit. Abbot Vsher Fox White c. They were in the Eastern and Greec Churches much larger than that of Rome they were amongst you some declar'd and marty'd for it some for peace sake living in the Communion of your Church and some conceled for fear of your cruelty sighing in secret for
thou pray heartily with the Church That God would bring into the way of truth all such as have erred and are deceived Popery Manifested AND THE Papist Incognito made known By way of DIALOGVE between a Papist Priest a Protestant Gentleman and a Presbyterian Divine The Second Part. Pr. YOur Servant Sir I come to see how you do and to spend an hour with you according to my promise G. Sir you are very welcome I am glad to see you and I was very impatient of your coming as much to enjoy your good company my self as to procure it to this old acquaintance of mine who long'd for it as much as I did Pr. Ha I doubt you have too many such acquaintances I know the man and am sorry to see you should keep company with him an Enemy to Christ and Christian Religion Take heed Sir Antichrist is of a very seducing Spirit Pa. Oh how now Master you fall foul upon me already that 's a very coarse Complement to salute me with the odious name of Antichrist But I hope you are not in earnest for my part I am glad to see you and desire to shake hands with you if it will not defile the holiness of yours Pr. Avoid Satan I would not have so much as your shadow to touch me and I am sorry to polute mine eyes with the sight of such a foul object as you are no there ought to be no communication betwixt light and darkness Pa. That 's true too but I 'll warrant you you and I are much of a dye and I am not of so dark a colour as you think I dare say for all your great aversion to me your Religion and mine differ but a little or at least nothing so much as that of the Church of England which you think comes very near to ours I can make it appear that we of Rome are agreed in many things with the English Presbyterians wherein we greatly differ from other Protestants come my good Friend let you and I dispute the case a little you shall find that I 'll give you great satisfaction in it Pr. These be impertinent brags and paradoxes I need no satisfaction in the case I am sure enough of the contrary There are no men under the Sun that hate and abhor Popery so much as we do therefore you may spare your labour and keep your breath for a better use G. Pray Sir don't shrink or else you 'll give him occasion to insult and me to be doubtful Sure after having been these twenty years set about the extirpation of Popery you are not afraid of being now prov'd a Papist Come make him repent of his bold challenge and make it appear that your practice and opinions are as averse to Rome as your words and clamors have been P. Yet still I stand upon my first ground you come very near to the Church of Rome in many things wherein you differ from the Church of England even in those things that are counted the worst of our errours Pr. I shall quickly confute your false and daring Assertion And first your Church doth greatly derogate from the Word of God and makes it inferiour to her Traditions and the Determinations of her Popes and Councils Can you charge us with any such thing Pa. Yes that I can You do greatly undervalue the same Divine Word to set up your Sermons the higher you perswade your people that that is the only Preaching and the true and only Word of God which you deliver out of your Pulpits so that your own Discourses are more attended and more regarded than the Bible it self And so prevalent is this opinion that those of your sort that go to the Parish Churches defer to go in while the Psalms the Chapters and the Epistle and Gospel are reading as if these were not worth the hearing But what is of the mans own making they will listen to attentively and perhaps write it down and repeat it with a great deal of Devotion Gods Word is but a Woodden Dagger with you it doth not reach the heart but the worst Sermon in your Conventicles pierceth the very soul and makes the people sigh and groan and take on most pitifully the powerfulness of Preaching indangers the very heart-strings And so current 't is amongst you that your Preaching is the Word of God that 't is call'd by the name of The Gospel and to hear it is made a Mark of Election So Mr. Jeremiah Burroughs told the Parliament ●●rm print ●645 p. 2. When I consider this place Westminster the extraordinary hand of God in bringing the Gospel to be preacht to you here in power those thoughts presently arise there is hope that there are many souls here belonging to Gods Election surely many will come in and imbrace the Gospel here And by the transcribing those sacred Oracles men were to judge of the condition their souls were in Thomas Palmer in a Sermon of his tells the people 164● p. ●8 That to hear Sermons and not write them is like taking water in a Sieve You keep a Shop-Book saith he O be perswaded to keep a Soul-Book that you may know how your Spiritual Estate stands belike those that had much written had very rich souls what increase or decrease of Grace you make this recording of revealed Truths and Soul-experiences from God would be of admirable use in time of trouble This is the difference in the case we undervalue Scripture that we may heed the more the Decrees of our Pope and you that you may the better attend to the dictates of every one of your Sermonizers Pr. I know all you can alledge will come short of what you would prove therefore I don't intend to trouble my self with answering your impertinencies it would but make our Discourse too tedious let this Gentleman be judge betwixt you and I who are in t●e right Pa. That will be very well I 'll follow your example and endeavour to shorten our Dialogue by pleading guilty t● every Article Charge our Religion with what you will I 'll deny nothing but shew you your ●wn face in that Mirrour you shall reach to me Come proceed Pr. In your publick Worship you use an unknown Tongue which the people doth not understand and thereby you keep them in ignorance that they may not be able to discern the errours of your Religion I am sure you can tax us with no such thing for we make all things plain to our hearers and they are an understanding and a knowing people who have more light in spiritual matters than any people whatsoever Pa. You do but fancy so they are as ignorant as any of us and they understand as little what you say though you speak English yet you speak an unknown Language to the people for you have so spiritualiz'd Religion that you have made riddles and mysteries of the plainest of its Doctrines it all consists in new-coin'd phrases and spiritual notions and
fancies and secrets Pray hear what Mr. Francis Cheynell preacht before the Parliament Serm. 1646. p. 2. and 3. God doth communicate rare secrets to certain known and chosen men to Prophets Prophecies Christ to his Disciples Gospel-secrets Doctrinal-secrets God to men of publick spirits secrets of State and we have seen such admirable experiences of Gods mercy in this kind within these five years that our Posterity will scarcely believe what we have seen God imparts mysterious secrets to his chosen people some secrets to make them his friends other secrets after they are his friends convincing secrets humbling secrets converting secrets Don't you think that these secrets are as bad as Latine Again if I may cite the words of one who was somewhat nearer to the Lord than you Thomas Brooks in a Sermon of his 1648. p. 19. O if God would raise up Parliament-men and men in the Army and in the City and round the Kingdom to more spiritual acquaintance with himself to more internal knowledge we should find that they would do abundantly more gloriously for it is want of an internal spiritual knowledge of God that men are Newters Apostates c. As you would do glorious and honourable things look to this that ye have an internal knowledge and spiritual acquaintance with God and this will enable you to do Exploits If you would do gloriously keep your Evidences for Glory always bright and shining soil not your Evidences for Glory And p. 20. If Parliament-men and men in all the Kingdom would believe more gloriously they would do more gloriously for God Spiritual internal knowledge and acquaintance bright Evidences believing gloriously I should think these as hard to be understood by ordinary people as an Ave Maria yet doubtless your people must needs be very knowing when you find them with Books whose very Titles if well understood would be able to open the seven Seals Jos Caryl Preach of Lincolns-Inn 1644. The Saints thankful acclamation at Christs Resumption of his great power and the Initials of his Kingdom A Thanksgiving Sermon for one of your Victories at Selby in York-shire The Thoughts of the Almighty A Sermon preacht before the Mayor by a Divine of the Assembly wherein 't is like those thoughts had been revealed to him John Strickland 1644. Such Books must needs give great instruction to th● people and the light of this following Doctrine would questionless expel even an Egyptian darkness T. Palmer ibid. Who would not now desire to close with Christ and love Christ and walk with Christ● yea who would not be rouled up and wholly inclosed in Christ The many Sermons you printed twenty years agone are for the most part full of such insignificant canting and unintelligible mysteries Now I say it matters not whether it be English or Latine as long as the people doth not understand both will keep them equally ignorant I note only these two differences because they make for us First that our Priests understand their Latine whereas your Rabbies themselves cannot make sense of many of their English Mysteries And secondly that if our people are ignorant at least they are conscious of it and therefore do follow the Church whereas your Disciples when they have got by heart your empty phrases are so self-conceited of their great skill in discerning the things of the Spirit that they judge all others blind that won't admire them and will venture to expound the hardest places in Scripture and sometimes leave you and set up for themselves Pr. The Canons and Injunctions of your Church and the numberless Ceremonies she hath appointed you observe with as much strictness as if they were commanded by God himself and so you make your own devices equal to Gods Ordinances I am sure we do quite contrary for we allow nothing to be done in Gods service but what he hath appointed himself and we will have Scripture for the very Circumstances of Divine Worship Pa. I remember indeed that five of your Doctors told us in an Apology they presented to the Parliament Jer. Bur. Will. Bri. Ph. Nye Syd Sam. Th. Good pag. 10. That they were certain there was in Scripture Rules and ruled Cases for all occasions whatsoever if we were able to discern them But I never heard that they had found out only so much as enough to determine all the Circumstances of Gods Worship However I am sure you have by far out-done us in the magnifying and imposing of your own inventions You told us that if your intended Reformation which was doubtless a device of your own did not take Christianity should go near to be lost The Minister of Ashford in Kent in a Sermon before the Committee of that County Jos Boden 1644. p. 30. informs them of the present danger of loosing the Christian Religion through all the Churches of the World if they should be careless and neglect the opportunity put into their hands The Lord saith he hath set this as a prize but we must run for it this is proposed as a Crown to the Saints but we must fight for it yea and reason good George Gillespie 1645. p. 17. for that Reformation was according to the mind of Christ saith a Minister of Edinburgh to the Commons at Westminster I confess you have rejected the ancient Ceremonies of the Church all that was not of your devising as Mr. Calamy told the Parliament We that live under the Gospel know that the worship of God the more spiritual the more beautiful it is in the eyes of God who is a Spirit and that the outward pomp in Gods service is an attire more fit for the Whore of Babylon than for the modest Spouse of Christ and that Musick in Gods service though it may please the ears of men yet it is unpleasing in the ears of God if you 'll take his word for it But what was of your own inventing O that is much made of Your Presbyterian Government was said to be of Christs own Institution F. Cheynel Serm. 1646. Ep. Dedic Ch. Love at Uxb. p. 20. so the Parliament was taught and you grac'd it with glorious Epithets as in these lines God is feeling the pulse of this Nation looking how we are affected me thinks I hear the Lord asking the Inhabitants of this Kingdom Will you have your Bishops your Common-Prayer-Book c. or will ye have the Gospel in power a reformation in purity your Assemblies refin'd your pollutions removed and the Government of my Son Establisht in the midst of you And so the setling of your Discipline was the setling Christ in his Throne as Mr. White hath it in the Preface to his Centuries 1643. Let us set hand and heart and shoulder and all to advance the Lords Sion to a perfection of beauty and to set up Christ upon his Throne And so another great One of yours S. Marshal Serm. to the Parl. 1643. p. 19. Did ever any Parliament in
and the Renegado English have not these wrested our lives c. Nay the Magistrates themselves were not exempt from the sting of your poisonous tongues Mr. Case told the Court-Martial Th. Case 1644. p. ● That for many years Robbery Violence Murther and Treason had sate on the Bench and not stood at the Bar c. And your tongues were so inur'd to slander that you could not so much as spare the first Christian Emperours and Bishops who had been the great Propagators of Christian Religion T. Palmer 1644. p. 19. The wicked saith Mr. Palmer and the Popes and Roman Emperours have agreed all along to persecute Gods Saints that hath gone on for above 600 years they have been getting upon the Saints almost all this while and therefore now 't is no more but just with God to bring their time of losing c. Thus you see the conformity between you and us holds still in this particular of slandering our enemies or rather to give you your full due you have out-done all Precedents by far if not Diabolos himself the Father of Lyes Pr. I know not whether your Quotations be true but this I am sure of that there is no men under the Sun so humble as the Presbyterians none acknowledge themselves so vile before God and make such soul-humbling confessions of sin whereas you magnifie your selves as the only people of God you think there is no goodness to be found but only amongst you therefore you exclude all that are not of your Church out of Heaven and so puft up you are with pride that you dare talk of your merits as though you were more than perfect Pa. Of Merits and Perfection another time if you please for the present let us inquire whether you do not value your selves as highly as we do and also shut out of Heaven those that are not of your holy Sect. As for your long confessions of sins I confess that I have sometimes admired how they could be consistent with the good opinion you have of your selves At first I thought that you took a pride in professing much humility and possibly I was not much out for you know you call him the Son of Pride who calls himself Servus Servorum But I remember that heretofore you kept days of humiliation for the sins of others Mr. Coleman in a Sermon to the Parliament after he had told them how that sins may be punished long after their commission T. Coleman p. 14. adds This particular was taken to heart when by an Ordinance you call'd upon the Kingdom to be humbled for the Bloud shed in the Marian persecution if such an Ordinance was reprinted with some additions concerning mixtures in Gods service and violence against Gods servants under the Prelatical Tyranny it might possibly do much good whereby it may seem probable that in your long confessions you mean other mens sins and not your own However it appears by what I have said already that you think your selves the best of men or to speak more properly the holy ones the elect and chosen people you engross to your selves the names of precious Saints and Godly others go under the notion of vile Looking-Glass for Malignants p. 2. ungodly reprobates It grieves the Saints saith Mr. Vicars to see those miserable Malignants to be so godless and graceless so bitingly and bitterly to flout and affront the Lord Christ himself in his holy Members and his most glorious Cause And in his Jehovah-Jireb speaking of Bastwick Burton c. brought out of prison p. 13. he saith Did not the Lord shew himself most strangely in the Mount for the redemption of all these his beloved Isaacs and cause his wrath to lay hold on those Romish Rams who were intangled in the bushes of their Bishoply abuses to Gods children and so by his admirable Providence to make them a prey to his just indignation in stead of his innocent his tenderly affected Isaacs his beloved Lambs I believe the Jews never put so many affronts and indignities upon the accursed posterity of Cham as you did upon those that were not enrol'd among your Saints Jer. Bur. 1643. p. 20. The Lord hath raised up saith Mr. Burroughs the worst the vilest upon the face of the earth and they have possest the houses of many of his Saints the dearly beloved of Gods Soul Is not this to the purpose Nay it seems the blessed Apostles and first Christians were inferiour in Saintship to your most incomparable selves saith Mr. Goodwin to the Parliament Look upon this Isle wherein we live Th. Good 1645. p 51. as it is the richest Ship that hath the most of the precious Jewels of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ in it Let me use the same Expression as I did in publick twenty years agone That if we stood at Gods elbow when he bounded out the Nations and seasons that men should live in we should not have known unless in Christs in what Age or in what place we should have chosen to have lived in in respect of the enjoyments of the Gospel and the Communion of Saints more than in this Kingdom wherein we live Now my loving Friend don't you think that we are also well agreed in this in esteeming our selves highly and condemning others that ar not of our side as impious reprobates fit only for Hell All the difference lies in this that we think well of our selves in that we obey our Church and hold Communion with her and you contrariwise make your excellency to consist in forsaking your Church and endeavouring to destroy it Pr. You shall repent by and by of the great pains you take for nothing mean while I 'll give you leave to talk of what Master such an one and such an one saith and pray can you find by those your Authors you have so ready at your fingers end that we have merits of congruity and merits of condignity and that we can give Pardons and Indulgences if so be we can get money for them Don't we teach that all our righteousness is as a defiled Rag and that our best works are rather sinful than meritorious Pa. It may be so but for all that I can tell you of one thing that is hugely meritorious among you and that is the advancing of the Cause the time was when you exhorted the people to spend all upon so good a work S. Marshal 1644. p. 41. Lay out your strength and hearts and affections for the Lord go on with all your might with all your estates with all your treasure whatever you have let God have it all in his Cause if he need it And pag. 43. Who knows how far the Zeal of any one man may prevail therefore go on in it to the utmost let Offices go let Wife and Children go let Estates go be wholly for the Lord and say What may I do wherein may I be imployed and laid out what is there in my
but also for conscience sake In Tit. 3.1 Put them in mind saith the Apostle to be subject to principalities and powers to obey magistrates to be subject to every good work You see that good works and obedience to Magistrates are joined together and appointed to be equally prest upon the people by the Exhortations of Christs Ministers In the 1 Pet. 2.13 c. Submit your selves to every Ordinance of men for the Lords sake whether it be to the King as Supreme or unto Governours as unto them that are sent by him for so is the will of God that with well-doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men as free but not using your liberty for a cloak of maliciousness but as the servants of God Fear God honour the King You see it is the will of God that with well-doing that is by obeying the King and his Governours we should put to silence the ignorance of foolish men who thought that Religion freed them from the yoke of subjection and that we should not make Christian liberty a cloak of maliciousness a pretence of Disobedience and Rebellion but as servants to God honour the King and submit our selves to him for the Lords sake Therefore it is a great impiety and hypocrisie to pretend Gods cause and interest for rebelling and disobeying when he bids us for his sake to obey and to be subject 2. That none must presume upon any account whatsoever to rebel against the Sovereign or Supreme Governour read Num. 16. at the 3. v. you shall find that Korah and his rebellious crew pleaded that the people was the Lords people and that they were holy every one of them and therefore say they to Moses and Aaron Why lift ye up your selves above the Congregation of the Lord But at the 32. v. The earth opened her mouth and swallowed them up and their houses and all that appertained to them And by that dreadful and unheard-of judgment God manifested how much he detests Rebellion that following Ages might beware of the heinousness of that crime So in 1 Sam. 24.5 and 6. Davids heart smote him because he had cut off Sauls skirt and he said to his men The Lord forbid that I should do this thing unto my Master the Lords Anointed to stretch forth mine hand against him seeing he is the Lords Anointed And c. 26. v. 9. David saith unto Abishai Destroy him not for who can stretch forth his hand against the Lords Anointed and be guiltless David was then Anointed King he was persecuted wrongfully by Saul Saul was rejected of God and he had most barbarously put to death the Priests of God and their whole families and yet because he was King over the people Who can stretch forth his hand against the Lords Anointed and be guiltless God as you see allows no pretence at all for Rebellion for that as I have shewn you Kings have their Authority from him By me Kings reign saith the Divine Wisdom Prov. 8.15 and therefore Solomon joins God and the King together as the objects of our respect and obedience Prov. 24.21 My son fear thou the Lord and the King and so Eccles 8.2 I counsel thee to keep the Kings Commandment and that in regard of the Oath of God 3. We are not to speak evil of the King but rather to pray for him in 22. Exod. 28. Thou shalt not revile the Gods that is Supreme Magistrates nor curse the Ruler of thy people Job 34.18 Is it fit to say to a King Thou art wicked and to Princes Ye are are ungodly So it was witnessed against Naboth by his false accusers That he blasphemed God and the King 1 King 21.13 and then he was stoned to death Whereby it appears that in Israel it was one of the greatest impieties to speak ill of the King As also it is commanded by Solomon Eccles 10.20 Curse not the King no not in thy thoughts c. And you may see what a black character the Apostles set upon those that despise Dominion and speak evil of Dignities in the Epistle of Saint Jude and in 2 Pet. 2.10 Now that it is our duty to pray for the King we have these examples 1 Sam. 10.24 when Saul was anointed the people cryed God save the King and so likewise when Solomon was anointed 1 King 1.39 But what need any more than this precept of St. Paul 1 Tim. 2.1 and 2. I exhort therefore that first of all supplications prayers intercessions and giving of thanks be made for all men for Kings and for all that are in Authority for it is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour Lastly That we are to pay Tribute to Kings and Sovereign Princes read Rom. 13.6 and 7. For this cause pay you Tribute also for they are Gods Ministers attending continually upon this very thing Render therefore to all their dues tribute to whom tribute is due custom to whom custom fear to whom fear honour to whom honour If the Heathen Emperours were Gods Ministers and therefore to receive Tributes and Customs much more the Christian Kings that now reign over us Moreover we have the example of Christ himself who when he had not wherewithal to pay that Tribute which the Roman Kings had imposed upon the Jews was pleased to work a miracle for to get money to pay it withal Mat. 17.24 c. He that was and is King of Kings and Lord of Lords the God of Heaven and Earth pleaded no exemption from paying Taxes but bound this duty upon all his followers by his own example and thereby confirmed also that precept which he gave us when the Jews asked him whether it was lawful to pay Tribute to Caesar Mat. 22.21 of rendring to Caesar the things that are Caesars as well as to God the things that are Gods Now therefore let no Christian dare to go against these so many and so plain and express Scriptures in disobeying or resisting his King and Sovereign under pretence of Religion or of removing evil Councellors or of fighting for the Kings Authority against his Person or because the Pope or the Presbyterian Synod enjoin him so to do for the good of souls for the cause and interest of Christ and the Gospel for you see that God makes no reservations and allows of no distinctions or equivocations but bids every soul to be subject and threatens damnation to any that shall not And now Sirs I leave you to meditate upon what you have heard and I heartily wish it may do you good FINIS