declaration of this frée mercy he reporteth it oftentimes that we are giuen vnto him of his Father as manifestaui nomen tuum ijs quos dedisti mihi I haue made knowne thy name vnto those which thou hast giuen me and tui erant mihi dedisti eos and omnia quae dedisti mihi a te sunt and serua eos quos dedisti mihi All things that thou hast giuen me are from thée Kéepe them that thou hast giuen me They were thine and thou hast giuen them me And that we should know that to be giuen to Christ is to be ioyned vnto him he addeth vt sint vnum sicut nos that they may be one as we are one This is also proued by all suche places of Scripture as shew that we be saued by grace Thus we sée our ioyning vnto God is first to be giuen vnto Iesus Christe of his Fathers owne good will And this is on Gods behalfe the eternall secrete purpose whereby we be made his The other way whereby we be made his is Faithe of his worde when by inspiration of the holy Ghost we apprehend in Christ the frée loue of his Father and that héereby we be ioyned vnto God it is in like manner often declared by the Scripture Now are you cleane saith Christ through the word which I haue spoken vnto you And in an other place I haue giuen vnto them the woords which thou gauest me and they haue receiued them and haue knowne surely that I came out from thée and haue beléeued that thou hast sent me Likewise Ioh. 16.27 Ioh. 17.14 I haue giuen them thy worde Againe sanctifie them with thy truthe thy worde is the truthe And to the ende we should all know this instruction were oures our Sauior saith further I pray not for these alone but for them also which shall beleue in me through their worde And now for proofe that this is our ioyning vnto God it foloweth that they all may be one as thou O Father art in me and I in thée euen that they may be also one in vs. This manner of ioyning vs vnto God was shewed vnto Iacob in that vision where he saw a ladder reaching from the earthe to heauen and Angels going vp and downe teaching vs that Christ was likewise the ladder by whome we climed vp and were ioyned to his Father This was likewise shewed in the thirde of Mathevve where the Heauens are opened and the holy Ghost descended vpon Christ signifying that he hath reconciled heauen and earth and ioyned vs againe vnto God and we by faith made partakers of that benefite Thus we sée the manner of our ioyning vnto God first in his eternal secrete purpose after apprehended of vs by faithe Now this standing thus that the promise might be certaine vnto all the séede God hath sealed this hope with the body bloud of Christ that we being partakers of those heauenly mysteries might assure our conscience of his eternall mercy that the gates of Hell should no more preuaile against vs. Thus are our Sacraments signes tokens warrantes gages pledges of our saluation and doe not as M. Harding teacheth ioyne vs vnto God but he sayth further they poure into vs life immortall and dothe boldly affirme it yet we may not beleue him without great preiudice to Christ himselfe I tel you plaine saithe M. Harding they put into vs eternall life but Christ saith I know that Gods commaundement is euerlasting life and to put it out of doubt what commaundement he meaneth he saith in an other place this is eternall life that they know thée to be the only very God and whom thou hast sent Iesus Christ. Then faith ioineth vs vnto God faithe putteth in to vs life Not in all Gods word there is one line whereby it may appeare this is wrought by the Sacrament Now resteth the second point to be considered whether the Sacraments containe grace and in déede hinc illae lachrymae Hereof maister Harding complaining came as the common Prouerbe is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Whē he heard y e name of Sacraments he could not but gape after this Popish heresie This is a religious article in the Popes kingdome that Sacraments doe giue grace but what they doe it is sufficiently already declared beside that their names doe sufficiently beare witnesse of their efficacie They be called Testaments or couenaunts which cannot be the thing it selfe but the pledge of our iustification In Baptisme if Christ doe not baptise with fire and with the holy Ghost the water of regeneration doth not auaile Therfore S. Paule saith ye that are baptised into Christ haue put on Christ. By which one sentence all M. Hardings doctrine is ouerthrowne For neither the water ioyneth vs vnto God neither yet giueth vs grace but that is wrought only by our faith in Christ. And therfore S. Paule writeth of Circumcision that Abraham was first iustified and after receiued the signe of Circumcision as this seale of the rightuousnesse of faith which he had whē he was vncircumcised By all this it is manifest that grace is first giuen vs fréely from aboue and then the Sacrament is lefte vnto vs as a warrant that Gods promisse shall be fulfilled Thus we sée that touching the Sacramentes M. Iuel saithe nothing otherwise than the Scripture teacheth and the vntruthe that M. Harding would so faine note is nothing else but his owne heresie And now for as muche as M. Harding hath called vs into so long a discourse of Gods Sacraments I desire of thée good Christian reader to marke indifferently the great difference in this behalf betwene the Christian and the papall Religion thou wilt soone as I doubt not abhorre their great deprauing of Christes institution which in that sinagoge is so miserably rent in pieces that scarce any parte of it is kept inuiolate Christ did institute his supper for this purpose that he might Communicate with his disciples They appoint their Masses that they may receiue alone Christ in his supper was the only offerer they in their Masses will offer as wel as he Christ blessed with giuing thanks they blesse with making Crosses Christ did Consecrate with the preaching of the word of faithe they doo Consecrate with whisperings and breathings Christ said take and eate this is my body they say neither take nor eate yet it is his body Christs Disciples sate downe and eate it they bid vs fall downe and worship it Christ said he would drinke no more of the fruite of the vine they say there is no fruit of the vine at all Christ saithe drinke ye all of this they say drinke no man but the Priest alone Christ saith doe this in my remembraunce that is shew forthe my death vntill I come they of Christes death and passion doe not preache a worde I will prosecute this repugnancie no further It greueth me to remember their opē sacriledge God turne
certaine olde Fathers force it muche which words folow immediatly Reade his Replie Then what shame is it to ascribe that to M. Iuel for an vntruthe which him selfe did neuer speake nor meane Belike these vntruthes goe slowly forward when M. Harding is enforced to chalenge that which was neuer sayd The B. of Saris. Neither Christ nor any of his Disciples euer gaue commaundement of it neither was it at any time vniuersally receiued Harding The .92 vntruthe Christ commaunded it The .93 vntruthe It hath bene vniuersally receiued Dering Note good reader this hasty quoting of vntruthes and the slender profe and thou shalt soone espie that M. Harding hath more desire of his number than regarde of any substaunce Héere are two vntruthes in a line The first Christ saith he commaunded that water should be mingled with the wine This bolde asseueration concerning Christes doing doth ask a sure proofe For bothe we were vnthankful if we would not folow his doing and the daunger were great in leauing his example But in all the Euangelists it is plaine that our Sauior Christ commaunded no such thing Then how doeth M. Harding proue this Forsoth saithe he Cyprian and the sixth generall councell séeme to say it came from the Apostles But bicause this is but a gesse and little worth he alleageth Clement who saithe plainely Christ did it and this beginneth to describe his ministration of the cup. Likewise mingling the cup of wine and water and Consecrating it he gaue it vnto them c. Now if this Clement be of good aucthoritie the matter is cleare But M. Iuel hath already shewed that his authoritie is no more worthe than Abdias Hippolytus Amphilochius and his other felowes and héere himself doth quite confound himself in that otherwise then all the Euangelists and S. Paule doe he describeth a new fashion of the Lords supper S. Paule saithe he that preacheth any other Gospel than this let him be accursed This of Clements is an other Gospel thaÌ„ Paule preached and therefore in this great light of the true Gospel that now shineth accursed be he that will folowe all Clements doctrine Sith therfore this is the proofe of this vntruthe Clement saith it this shalbe our aunswere for the discharge of it Master Iuel saith nay a man of more learning better religion godlier life and greater credite than euer y e bastard Clement was The second vntruth héere noted is that it hath bene generally receiued to poure water in the wine Yet Scotus saith it is not necessary as M. Iuel hath shewed And likewise so saith Thomas certain other Also Mary couÌ„terâ—et Pope Alexander in his first Decretall Epistle saith it must be done bicause bothe came out of Christes side But let these doctors go This I grauÌ„t that Iustinus Martyr Iraeneus and Cyprian who aboue other in this are most earnest do all séeme to enforce it but bicause the scripture hathe not expressed it we must beware how we make it necessary and for that occasion though in the Latine church it be very auncient yet in our Church we doe not vse it But for this vntruth where M. Harding saithe it hathe bene generally receiued that is more rashly affirmed than sufficiently proued Scotus saythe that in his time the Gréekes vsed it not long before him the people of Armenia vsed it not as appeareth in this sixth generall councell alleaged by M. Harding and by sundry other recordes and further many yeares before that time Chrysostome said of those words of our sauior Christ I will drinke no more of the fruit of the vine c. that he would with those words take away the pernitious heresie of suche as vsed water in the mysteries Yet saith M. Harding it hath bene generally receiued With as good a â—orage and as muche truthe as Pope Eugenius saith the same but he must pardon vs he may not score vp vntruthes vpon his owne credite we wil neither beleue the Pope nor him neither except they bring their proofes And thus muche of this vntruthe The B. of Saris. M. Harding saith this mixture is necessary to the sacrament Harding The .94 vntruthe I say not it is necessary Dering Euen now he said it was commaunded by Christ nowe he saith it is not necessary Marke well his sayings and lay them together and thou shalt easily consider of these vntruthes if we likewise thought Christes commaundement not necessary to be obserued when he saith accipite edite We might aforde M. Harding his priuate Masse The B. of Saris. Scotus saith it is not necessary Harding The .95 vntruthe Scotus saith not so Dering Wel said yet Anaxagoras snow is not white Scotus hath the very words sée the place in 4. sent dist 11. q. 6. Now coÌ„cerning this mingling of wine water bicause so many vntruthes are made about it it shall not be amisse to speake somwhat of it First as touching these meÌ„ theÌ„selues how they are affected we may partly gather by these vntruthes in the .94 vntruth M. Iuel saith that M. Harding maketh this mixture necessary It is not so saith M. Harding I say not it is necessary In this vntruth M. Iuel saith y t Scotus maketh this mixture not necessary It is not so saith M. Hard he maketh it necessary By this it is plaine y t Scotus M. Harding do not agrée But it may be that these hasty vntruthes want some coÌ„sideration Let that aduauntage goe and let vs consider the thing We haue no expresse commaundement for it That Christe gaue only wine it may wel appeare by that is written I wil drink no more of this fruit of the vine c. for the vsage of it if it were left frée it might be had but when they made it a matter of such waight it was necessary to stop y e great outrage But let vs sée how they proue that this mixture shold be made of wine and water Quia vtrumque ex Christi latere profluxisse dicitur bicause bothe issued out of Christes side True it is water and bloud issued out of Christ side but this is a poore reason to mingle water and wine in this Sacrament when Christ did celebrate his supper before his precious side was pearced That which S. Iohn testifieth héere that water and bloud issued out of his side the same he writeth in his Epistle that Christ came with water and bloud Teaching vs héereby that Christ is the true satisfaction for our sinnes and the true water of regeneration to make vs cleane and without spot before his father For the forgiuenesse of our sinnes and the purifying of our soules were figured in the lawe by sacrifices and by washings In y e sacrifices the bloud did purge sinnes and was the attonement appointed to pacifie Goddes wrathe The washings were testimonies of the true cleanenesse of the minde and remedies to doe away the filthinesse of our fleshe Now least our faith
first how vnwares he speaketh contrarie to him selfe He confesseth flatly that this negatiue of S. Gregorie wherin he denieth any ought to be vniuersall Bishop is in defence of the truth Yet Maister Harding in the fourth article goeth about to proue that the pope is vniuersal B. so by his own confession he goeth about to proue a lye Secondarely he confesseth at the last that Maister Cranmar was a Byshop and Maister Iuell with other his felowes are Bishops yet at other times he and his fellowes wil in no case graunt it Thirdly he saith no B. of Sarisburie was a Caluinist before Maister Iuell and that is a manifest lye Fourthly that no Byshop of Canterbury was maried before Cranmar and that is an otherlie So in al this former péece either he speaketh nothing but lyes or if it be true it is such truth as by open writing he hath impugned But Maister Harding bicause he can not deny this contrarietie he will bid vs proue the other that any B. of Sarisbury hath bene of one religion with Caluin or that any B. of Cant. hath bene maried In déede this is the ground of their whole religion bold asseuerations without any manner warrant and then they bid vs proue the contrary But although this vnequall dealing be not good and he that teacheth anye thing shoulde proue the same to be true yet I am content for truthes sake to reproue in fewe woordes these negatiues of Maister Hardings First this forbidding mariage was vniuersally established by Pope Siluester the seconde who was made Pope by the meanes and woorking of the deuil as their own writers confesse in the yeare of our Lord 980. Yet I graunt through the folly of vnlearned bishops about .400 yeares after Christ matrimonie in the cleargy began to be misliked especially in the West church For in the East church they made no account of it yea they thought it was no hinderaunce to the minister for perfourmance of his dutie in Gods church But as I haue said the West church in many places forbad it And S. Ierom although in many places he speake reuerently and well of it yet in some places vpon his owne priuate affection he misliketh it But as touching this purpose more then thre hundred yeares after Christ Priestes mariage was thought verie lawfull But the English men receiued the faith of Christ in the latter time of Nero as Gildas witnesseth an olde writer and a Britan who liued in the yeare of our Lord .580 and will Maister Harding say that the thing being lawfull yet in .300 yeare togither there was neuer a Byshop maried And let Mayster Harding héere make no exception either that in those dayes ther was no Byshops of Canterbury or Sarisbury or that Gildas auctority is not good Theodoretus saith that S. Paule him selfe preached héere in his latter time Nicephorus and other moe say they receiued the fayth in the yere of our Lord 63. by Ioseph of Arimathia After this supersticion began againe to bréede then an .179 many preachers were sent for to call them againe to their former profession Whervpō Tertullian speaking of this age saith Britānorum inaccessa Romanis loca Christo fuerin◠subdita And Petrus Cluniacensis speaking of the Scots calleth them christianos antiquiores the most auncient christian men And the story is knowen how Lucius then King of England was very diligent in setting out the Gospell Thus it appeareth the true faith hath bene in Englande almost euer since our sauiour Christ died Now y t in those daies ther wer bishops in Englād it is likewise manifest When Eleutherius the Pope 177. sent preachers into England they found here .3 called archiflamines and .25 called flamines which he turned in to thrée archbishops .25 byshops Thus much then is clere that in England were Christian bishops and they might mary Now to proue that they were maried it is plaine by Gildas in the latter ende of his booke where he reproueth the Bishops their wiues and their children So this lying negatiue of M. Harding is reproued that sayth no Bishop was euer maried in England before Bishop Cranmer For the other negatiue that there was neuer B. of Sarisburie of that religion which Caluine taught it appeareth by M. Iuels Replie which sheweth that not onely in England but in all Christendome that religion was in the chiefest articles professed And yet bicause it is here brought with the suretie of M. Hardings warrant we wyll speake a little of this negatiue It is boldlye auouched of manye popish Priestes that Christianitie was placed here by Augustine which is called the Englishe Bishop He was sent from Rome and landed in the Ile of Tenet in Kent an 596. But it is alredy shewed that we had the faith of Christ long before Then what did Augustine here I will tell thée Christian Reader and I wyll tell thée that which M. Harding shall nener be able to confute He did first perswade the King and Quéene not to enforce his new religion but to leaue it fréely to men to follow if they would Afterward being made Bishop of Canterburie by consent of a Synode he thrust into that Church altars vestiments images Masses challices crosses candlesticks ▪ sensers banners processions holy water holy bread funerals tithes and such other stuffe whych before that time was neuer séene in England Then he changed their kéeping of Easter day taught them manye ceremonies in Baptisme and when he coulde not bring all men to his diet he moued great persecution against such as defended the libertie of the Church Then he receiued from Rome relickes of diuers Saintes buylt a Monasterie to Saint Peter wrought many fained miracles and so at the last he died about the yeare of our Lord .610 Now for further proofe of this that Augustine marred and not made our religion it is verye probable that we neuer receiued our faith from Rome but from the East Church First bicause we vntill Augustine came among vs kept our Easter after the manner of the Gréeke Church Now it is well knowen what mortall hatred there was for that matter so that he which was enstructed of the one would in no wyse vse the order of the other Agayne when Augustine should be sent vnto them he came backe for feare and the Britaines would not receaue him nor acknowledge anye authoritie of Pope Gregorie ouer them Which sure they would neuer haue done if they had receaued theyr fayth from Rome Thus much then followeth we had the faith of the Gréeke Church without all superstitious ceremonies of the Church of Rome and so it is manifest our bishops were then of Maister Caluines profession in the whole substaunce of their religion And so is this other negatiue of M. Harding prooued a lye This I haue sayd the more at large bicause M. Hardyng and his fellowes woulde haue vs beleue that our faith came from the Pope and Dan Augustine
his sonne Christ quis vestrum arguet me de peccato which of you can conuince me of sinne Who euer defended a matter c. Your doctours at Oxford against these reuerend Fathers D. Cranmer D. Ridley and M. Latimer Who euer in so weighty pointes c. You in your aunswer and héere in defence of your modesty And yet this ioly fellowe c. I will speake nothing of this modesty For vndoubtedly it is far spent But this is a Popes disputation to aske vs first our mindes and then to conclude whether we wil or no. But fare you well Maister Harding nowe you are off the stage giue vs leaue a little to speake to the audience Marke christiā reader this mans intemperancy He hath purposed to defend his vaine and beastly Religion and thou shalt sooner ouerturne the whole estate of his lyfe then bring him from it Hée hath woorshipped so long in the church of Rome that Elizeus the Prophet cannot call him out of it He careth not what he saith nor how boldly he affirmeth and he is not ignorant of this him selfe but he is so far of from hauing any thing for him selfe that he thinketh he must not onely speake against vs but euen against nature against the warnings of reason against the opinion of al men against the scriptures of God He defēdeth his modestie with mostim̄odest woordes He shameth not to saye Maister Iuels Booke is foolish which is a looking glasse of learning to al that vnderstand it He saith his arguments be péeuish which yf they be not grounded in Gods woorde I require thée beleue them not He saith he spareth not the maiesty of the holy ghost and Christ our Lord and yet in so great blasphemy bringeth no one coniecture And how doeth he handle all this With so good and chosen woordes so handsome colours so whole sentences that although he hath made warre against God and his Church yet he séemeth to speake déepe diuinity God giue vs grace to beware of him He is a blinde leader of the blinde But he is come againe let vs sée what he hath more to say Harding ¶ You would haue men thinke this were Vetus Comoedia No M. Iuell it is Zelus Dei it not Vetus Comoedia The imitation of Vetus Comoedia hath euer bene takē for a badge of men of your profession c. You mocke and scoffe at our persons as the naughty boyes of Bethel dyd at Elizeus but at our auncient Religion at the church of Christ. Yet wee curse you not in the name of our Lord as he did those euill nourtered children that ye might be toren of Beares c. With your wicked doctrine you haue so brought the people from God as now for a great number they may seeme not to halt on both sides but to be fallen downe right Yet doe we not call for fire to discend from heauen and burne you vp Neither doe we stirre the people to take you and destroye you as Elias bad the people to destroye the false Prophetes Dering Haue you not left iarring of this vnmodest string Belike it is very pleasant musicke in your eares This manner of behauiour say you is not Vetus comoedia no open naming of men vpon stages What is it then It is Zelus Dei I may not iudge directly what you are within Paule was a persecutour in defending their traditions but sure your zeale is not according to knowledge you loue darknesse more thē light and therfore you dwell in ignorance you seeke not after wisdome as after siluer and gold and therfore you finde hir not You saye we scoffe at you and your Religion as the. c. At your persons we scoffe not God is our witnesse we wéepe to see the temple of the holye Ghost to be the temple of an Harlot it gréeueth vs that in the Image of God shoulde appeare Sathans vglye visage And you want not our prayers for your returne But your auncient Religion we hate and abhorre it It is so olde that it is rotton and one péece wil not hange with an other it is a smoke that at the flaming out of gods woord is vanished it is a stinking mist it is ouerblowen with the swéete windes of the holy spirit And therfore doo not blame vs if we cannot abide it Your Religion is as good as your vaunt is true when you commende your selues for clemencie aboue Elizeus or Elias You saye you praye not that we maye be torne of Beares nor that fyre from heauen maye come downe to destroye vs. What your prayer is inwardely I say it oft I know not But for your good will towarde vs if you coulde commaund either beastes or Elements we should not escape neither Beare nor fyre The aboundance of our bloode crieth out to heauen that you are as mercifull as the woolfe or the Tyger But O passi grauiora dedit deus his quoque finem his name be praysed for euermore Harding ¶ Certaine false preachers for their great impudency and for that they barked at the light of the Gospel as dogs do at the Moone by night S. Paule called dogges and bad the Philippians beware of them c. Dering Here Maister Harding would couer his vngodly demeanour with the cloke of godlynes for that S. Paule called certaine vngodly teachers doggs and euill labourers and therfore he woulde gladlye saye as much to Maister Iuell But who were they that thus barked at the Gospell Uerily men of their owne Religion For thus saith S. Paule Beware of doggs beware of euill workers beware of concysion For we are the circumcysion that worshipp God in the spirite and reioyce in Christ Iesu and haue no confidence in the fleshe But O the wretched Church of that confounded Babylon what one-péece hath it of this spirituall woorship that is to reioyce in Christ alone and haue no confidence in the fleshe Do they not make Angels their mediators Do they not call vpon Paule and Peter Doe they not say that their whoorish Masse is propitiatory Doe they not byd men go range a pilgrimage for the greater meades Doe they not say ther is a merit of our workes And what say they not that leaneth to flesh and bloode This ▪ is the barking doctrine this is the tearing renting in peces of Christ his merites S. Augustine saith non gratia ex merito sed meritum ex gratia Grace commeth not of deserte but deserte commeth of grace Let them leaue off their iesting at Maister Iuells worship it is no tyme to speake euill of authority Euen in such language the hart is sorowfull and the ende of that myrth is heauinesse Harding ¶ Ieremie calleth them of Iewry Staliens for that they neyed eche one at an others wyfe Ezechiel calleth the false Prophetes of Israel Foxes so Christ him selfe named Herod a Fox Dering Yet M. Harding procéedeth in the long space of his owne modestie and as he must néedes doe alledging
truth for falsehood heapeth vp scriptures against himselfe Ieremie calleth the people of Iudah Stahens Ezechiel the false Prophetes Foxes and so doth Christ call Herode But who were these fed horses of Iudah those sayth God by the Prophet whose children haue forsaken me and sworne by them that are no Gods that when they were fed full yet they committed adultery And who sweareth by them that are no Gods eyther we or they Haue not they taught vs to sweare by the saints of God by his holy Euangelies and by their wicked Masses And trow they this is not swearing by false Gods Of whom speaketh Ezechiel that they ar like Foxes in the wasty places euen those that Prophecied of their owne spirite and lying diuinations and whether doe prophecie of their owne spirite we that search onely the woorde of God or they that preach forth their owne traditions Who hath séene lying diuinations we that reiect all their dreames and visions or they that doe staye their whole Religion on them Though all the reuelations which are written in maner infinite dyd not shewe it Maister Hardings owne aunswere would sufficientlye proue it This is a special note that their Pope is Antichrist oft spoken of in the scripture and bewayled of S. Paule to Timothe in his earnest exhortation to continuall preaching wher he saith the tyme will come when they will not suffer holsome Doctrine but hauing their eares itching shall harken after their owne lustes get them a heape of teachers and shall turne their eares from the truth and shall be giuen vnto fables Thus while Maister Harding doth mayntayne his modesty he hath ouerthrowne his religion and in heate of spirit as he goeth forth in euil he doth breath out euill termes in suche sorte that chaste eares maye not well abyde them He calleth mariage an vnchaste life wyues strumpets and an vndefiled bed a lecherous neying O Lord are not thy eyes vpon the truth Thou hast stricken thē but they haue not sorrowed thou hast consumed them but they haue refused to receiue correction they haue made their faces harder than a stone and haue refused to returne But they knowe not the waye of the Lorde nor the iudgement of their God I will aunswere no otherwise but with S. Paules woordes that their doctrine is a doctrine of Diuels He telleth vs of spitefull guyles and wyles with which we intrappe men of our lewdnesse and our false dealing that maketh them to smart and yet he saith he will not chasten vs with reuiling woordes How full of gall is Maister Harding that these woords do not yet seme bitter What shall we looke for when his spiryt is moued that thus quyetly breathed out such reproches But so his tonge maye runne or his pen be walking it séemeth he careth not what he write or speake Why doth he not tell vs what he meaneth Is it like he knoweth any harme by vs and will not tell it Such silence would require a mylder stomacke Now after a litle talke to no purpose when he hath swet long in bringing much for his modesty yet can prooue none he thinketh good pollicy to make other compartners of his impudency and after mature deliberation with a fewe prety metaphores thinketh it good to bestow his talke vppon Maister Iuell and so with a bolde asseueration beginnes his purpose Harding ¶ Verily of all the wryters that I haue read I neuer found any that vseth the lothsome manner of scoffing and mocking so much as you doe When reason faileth a scoffe is at hand When an argument presseth a mock serueth for aunswere When the matter goeth playne on the contrarie side then Hickescorner be stirreth him and with ieasting pulleth away the minde of the reader to an other light thought that so all might be laughed out and the chiefe point let passe Dering Now verily Maister Harding you are in a mad case You maye be Simo for your lucke your harmes come so in order your arguments are so slender your witnesses so vndiscrete your aduersarie so strong that when you haue done what you can at last you kéepe the shame your selfe You told vs before of blasphemyes against the dreadfull mysteries of strikinge at all men not sparing the reuerence of his mother no not the maiesty of the holy Ghost and is this bloody tragidy ended with a poore scoffe Hath Maister Iuell so tempered his Reply that Maister Harding can finde in it no one reuyling woorde Why then M. Harding call togither your friendes and let manye handes make the burden lighter Unlesse your reuylings be meruailous vncomelye you shall haue them of your own syde that will beare them vp stoutly and M. Iuell is content with a litle iesting in tyme conuenient But that either scoffe or mocke or your Hickescorner doeth stande in steade of an aunswere this is an other of your railings and you must be content to beare it your selfe If you will haue vs beleue it why shewe you not the place Must the enimies wordes stande for good accusation But who can bring proofe of a shamelesse lye Hardyng ¶ In olde tyme Philosophers had names giuen them of some speciall property and disposition of mynde Socrates was named the dissembler Plato the Diuine Heraclitus the Darke Carneades the Subtile Chrysippus the sharpe Theophrasius the sweete Diogines the Doggish Certainely had you bene aliue at those dayes you had bene named Iewell the Scoffer Yet for your learning I wene you had not ben annumbred among Philosophers Dering Here to helpe to discredite his aduersary he vttereth a litle cunning in old Philosophers names and yet in the ende is very lothe to account him among them This is the craking M. Harding told vs of to set out his learning after so vnlearned fashion But this is no faulte in the rethorike of Louain The Tarentynes and the Sicilians to whome he writeth shal accept it for good eloquence But let the cunning goo let vs examine the cause he doth measure his forefathers by his own affection What if we shoulde deale in like maner with him and reason thus Ptoleme for his foolishe pyping was called a minstrell Ochus Artaxerxes for his cruelty Machera Tarquinius for his vnciuill behauiour the prowde Deniochares for his bolde prating 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Aristogiton for his impudency a Dog Antiochus for his great promysing and litle perfourming Dosas Trebonius for speaking ill of his betters Asper And had M. Harding of our dayes bene then lyuing he should haue bene called for his little modestye Harding the rayler Certaynly though he might be one of those for his behauiour yet I will not bestow of him anye particuler name I leaue him to the iudgement of others Now once againe for his full discharge he sheweth out his generall acquitance and sayth that in all his aunswer he hath vsed great modestie Much like to Ptolome one of the Kings of Egypt that when he had killed his Father and hys Moother
vntruthe Then thus hang these vntruthes If this last be true that the Gréeke Church dothe consecrate with prayers the thirde is true that it intendeth not Transubstantiation And the second is true that it hath no suche intent as the Church of Rome hath and the first is true that these churches are not resolued in this intent Now consider I beséeche thée good Reader what manner of vntruthes these are that notwithstanding their great number are yet so smal in value that if but one be proued true all .iiij. must be graūted Sure thou must néedes confesse that M. Harding who in his Epistle would so faine shoote at hobs and rouers yet at this marke he hath had so good deliuery that he hathe farre ouershot him selfe and his whole commendation is no more worthe than that praise in Horace of a babling Poete qui variare potest rem prodigialiter vnam which cā turne a true sentence into a great many lies For proofe of this last vntruthe on which the other hang we haue the plaine wordes of the Councel of Florence alleaged by M. Iuel where it is shewed that in the Gréekes mynisterie after the words of Christ pronounced this is my body they make this prayer fac panem hunc honorabile corpus Christi tui c. make this breade the honourable body of thy Christ. By this prayer it is manifest that these wordes this is my body being pronounced before did not worke Transubstantiation But bicause it hath pleased M. Harding in to great a zeale of his number to score vp vntruthes thus vnwisely least his friends should thinke the matter vnsufficiently answered we wil say somwhat of them in order euen as M. Harding noteth them and I doubt not but to the indifferent reader they shall one of them sufficiently confute an other First saith M. Harding the Church is resolued on the Priests entent But that is very false For the Gréeke Church and the Church of Rome haue not one intēt The Greke Church as is said doth consecrate with prayers The Church of Rome with hoc est enim corpus meum The Gréeke Church maketh more accompte of the worthy receiuing than of Consecration The Churche of Rome thinketh we ought to haue more regarde of Consecration than of the worthy receiuing I leaue out other differences which are almost infinite This is inough to proue our purpose Secondarily saithe M. Harding the Church of Rome entendeth not Transubstantiation What he entended in this vntruthe I know not For my parte wold God M. Iuel said héere vntrue and that that Romish Church would leaue of that presumptuous entent Thirdly saith M. Harding the Gréeke Church meaneth transubstantiation And this is very straunge for a learned man to speake suche repugnances First y t the church of Rome intendeth not transubstantiation Againe that the Gréeke Church doth intend transubstantiation And thirdly y t they two intende one thing when M. Harding with all his wrangling can make these vntruthes agrée sure we wil subscribe Now resteth a little to be considered of the Councel of Florence whether it may appeare by it that the Churche of the Grecians acknowledge no transubstantiation Thus it stoode When the Latines in that assembly required that they might entreate of transubstantiation The Grekes made answere sine totius orientalis ecclesiae authoritate quaestionem aliam tractare non possimus without the consent of all the East Church we can meddle with no other question c. Héere be the Reader neuer so simple he must thinke thus muche If this article of transubstantiation were so Catholike as they will make vs beleue how commeth it to be called so ofte in controuersie in generall Councell And againe if the Grecians did accompte it as Catholike and were resolued in it what meant they that they would not subscribe to so highe a point of Christian religion sure this was their meaning they knew this transubstantiation was but a Romish deuise and therefore they would ▪ not yelde vnto it And thus muche of these hasty vntruthes The B. of Saris. The .13 Diuision But if Cyril neuer spake word of the Masse how is he heere brought in to proue the Masse Harding The .101 vntruthe Cyril is not brought to proue the Masse Dering But he should proue priuate Masse or else what maketh he héere For of that the question is moued And this is a very hard case that M. Harding must lose his vntruthe or else confesse he speaketh not to the purpose The B. of Saris. Neither may we thinke that Christes body must grossely and bodily be receiued into our bodies Harding The .102 vntruthe We must beleue it Dering As maister Harding hath forsaken Gods Religion and is fallen againe to Poperie so it séemeth also he hath forsaken his learning and beginneth to make vntruthes with his follie This is one of the chiefest articles for which we haue forsaken their vnfaithfull Churche As ofte as we repeate this we conclude the thing which lieth in controuersie betwene vs. This is our professed opinion and vpon the trial of it by good and sufficient aucthoritie if it be proued against vs Maister Iuel is ready to subscribe Then what meaneth maister Harding Or what maner of vntruthe is this Or who can accompte it for true and plaine dealing when vpon good ground we shewe forthe our opinion and he scoreth vp the question for an vntruthe He shal doe well to reproue it before he make anymoe vntruthes of this Reade the .104 vntruthe The B. of Saris. S. Cyprian saith it is meate not for the belly but for the minde Harding The .103 vntruthe S. Cyprian saith not so Dering If M. Harding and his Popishe felowes had falsified the Doctors no otherwise than M. Iuel héere falsifieth S. Cyprian then in a little chaunge of words we should haue had their meaning faithfully deliuered vnto vs and bastard bokes such as they knew not had neuer bene ascribed vnto them But thanks be to God who hath now lightned vs least suche vngodly writings vnder godly names should deceiue vs as touching this vntruthe I graunt the words are not in that treatise entituled de coena domini But whether the author say the same thing in sense let him selfe witnesse M. Iuel alleaging no Latine words but folowing the sense saith thus it is meat not for the belly but for the minde The wordes in Cyprian are these Sicut panis communis quem quotidie edimus vita est corporis ita panis iste supersubstantialis vita est animae sanitas mentis As the common bread which we eate daily is the life of the body so this bread supersubstantiall is the life of the soule and the health of the minde and what is héere falsified by M. Iuel Or what is worthy blame in this allegation Yet M. Harding taketh this smal occasion to finde fault with his printed sermon with his replie and with them that as he saith