gospell and haue imbraced and professed and doo still professe most vnpure Popish religion The booke was first written by the aboue named Iohn de Albine as it may be thought either in the Latine or in the French tonge Wherefore I meane not to bestow any time in the answering of it supposing that either Beza or some other French Protestant hath already dealt therein sufficiently But because the offers séeme to be made by some English man and haue not as I thinke béene aunswered by any man I haue thought good to supply the place of that learned Protestant that the Popish Catholique ment to make the offers vnto And that the Offerer if hee be yet liuing or any fréende of his if he be departed this lyfe may not haue any cause to mislike with my dealing herein I minde to setfoorth to the view of the Reader all the words of the Offerer euen as I finde them and as I haue them to shew in his printed Coppie which I haue and doo mind to kéepe in a readinesse to shewe not abiding or dimnishing altering or changing one sentence worde sillable letter or title The Offerer beginneth thus The Offerer First seeing it cannot bee denied that our sauiour Christ before his departure and ascension did commit the charge and gouernment of his Church the testimony of his worde the truth of his gospell the ministration of his Sacraments to his Apostles and Disciples and that not only for them selues but to their successors Bishops and Priests and to none other saying only to them Euntes docete omnes gentes Math. 28. Marc. 16. Goe yee and teach all people and nations of the world baptizing them in the name of the father and of the sonne and of the holy ghoste teaching them to obserue and keepe all things which I haue commaunded you Further the Apostle Saint Paule being at Miletum in executing of his charge gouernment gaue this admonition to the Bishops and Priestes there assembled before him saying Attēdite vobis et vniuer so gregi Act. 20. Take heed vnto your selues and vnto the whole flocke of Christ in the which the holy ghost hath ordayned you Bishops Regere ecclesiam Dei To gouerne the Church of God And in the thirteenth Chapter of his Epistle to the Hebrews hee dooth commaunded all other sortes of men without exception of Emperours Kings Queenes and Princes to obay their Bishops and priestes saying Heb. 13. Obedite praepositis vestris subiacete eis ipsi enim peruigilant quasi rationem pro animabus vestris reddituri Obey your Prelates and doo what they appoint you for they doo watch as men that shall render accomptes for your soules Seeing that by the testimonies before alleadged it can not bee denyed but that the charge and gouernment of Chryst his Church the preaching of his doctrine the admninistration of his Sacramentes was by him committed to his Apostles and Dysciples and to all Byshoppes and Priestes as Successours of them to plante Chrystian fayth and Religion in his Catholique Church vniuersally throughout all Nations Coastes and Quarters of the world Seeing this is by the playnnesse of the sayd testimonies of such an vndoubted truth that it cannot bee denyed now let the learned protestant affirming princes to bee the supreme heades of the Church eyther shew by some such other like playne testymonies of the Scriptures that our Sauiour Chryst did commit the chyefe charge and supreme gouernement of his Church to Emperours Kings Queenes and Princes to plant Christian fayth and Religion in the same or that any one of Chryst his Apostles or Disciples did conuert any people Lande or Countrey from their Idolatrie and Ethnike kinde of liuing to Christian faith and Religion by preaching the doctrine of the Protestants as of onely faith to iustifie the contempt of good workes and that they be all vncleane in sight of GOD the deniall of free will of the real presence of Christes body in the holy Eucharist of the Sacrifice of the most blessed Masse the abolishing Christ his Sacramentes and of all grace and goodnesse by them conferred vnto vs then I shall yeelde and recant and not before Thus farre the first part of the Offer Crowley This Offerer hath deuided this offer of his into 22. parts adding to the last part six certaine and assured signes and tokens of false Prophets Heretickes Schismatickes This diuision I meane to follow in mine answer To this first part therfore I say thus maister Offerer I cōfesse that our Sauiour Christ dyd as you haue sayd committe the charge and gouernement of his Church the testimonye of his worde the trueth of his Gospell and the ministration of his Sacramentes to his Apostles and Scholers and to theyr successors But not to such successours onely as you do name that is to Bishops and Préestes onely and to none other For S. Paule in the 12. Chapter of his first Epistle to the Corinthians and in the 4. to the Ephesians writing of the same matter sayth thus Et ipse dedit quosdam quidem Apostolos Eph 4. quosdam autem Prophetas alios vero Euangelistas alios autem Pastores Doctores And he hath giuen some Apostles or Messengers and some Prophettes and other some Euangelistes and some others Pastors and teachers And againe in the 12. of the first to the Corinthians hee writeth thus 1 Cor 12. Et quosdam posuit Deus in Ecclesia primum Apostolos secundo Prophetas tertio Doctores deinde virtutes exinde gratias curationum opitulationes gubernationes genera linguarum God hath place in his Church certaine degrees of men first Apostles secondly Prophets thirdly teachers then powers after that giftes of healings helpes gouernements kindes of tongues Least you should quarell about the translating of S. Paules wordes out of the Gréeke I haue set them downe as I finde them in that translation that your Tridentine councell hath allowed of But I pray you good M. Offerer what meant S. Paule that in the rehearsall of those sundry degrées of men that God hath placed in his Church he would make no mentiion at al of your Bishops and Préestes to whom onely as to the onely successours of his Apostles and Disciples Christ spake if you haue written truely when he sayd thus Math. 28 Euntes docete omnes gentes Goe ye and teach all nations of the worlde c. Without all doubt S. Paule dyd know and so doo wée that God dyd neuer place in his Church or appoint to succéede his Apostles and Disciples any such Bishops and Préestes as you meane of That is Lording and loitring Bishops exercising dominion ouer the peoples that are alotted vnto them and sawsie sacrificing Préests which presume to occupie the place of Christ himselfe and to execute his office in offering sacrifice for the sinnes of the people S. Peter disaloweth the one 1. Pet. 5. and S. Paule the other Hebr. 10. Hebr 1◠1 Peter ◠Yea if our
yéeres euen as the tares doo springe vp amōgest the good graine before the time of Haruest yet the field remaineth still a corne field not a field of tares yet the church was still Catholike till the whole state did professe Antichristianisme began to persecute such as continued in the profession of the auncient true Catholike religion which is the same that wée doo now professe you and your sorte doo persecute These haue not bin the worke of cōuenticles priuate congregations as it pleaseth you to terme all the particuler churches of Christ that refuse to take the marke of the beast and to acknowledge your Antichristian church to bee the knowne Catholike church of Christ but they haue bin the fruits that haue spronge out of the same faith and religion that was taught by Christ him selfe by his immediate Apostles receiued belieued professed by the first Catholike christians and is still professed by vs and is fruitfull in vs when ability and oportunity dooth serue In the daies of king Edward the sixt of blessed memory who founded in London Christs Hospitall for the education of fatherles infants S. Bartholmews Hospitall in smithfield and S. Thomas Hospitall in Southwarke for the curing of diseased persons did not the protestant Catholikes make those charitable prouisions doo not they still maintaine the same This Offerer may remēber that his Antichristian catholikes did in the time of quéene Maries raigne attempt to ouerthrowe those foundations agayne Who were the founders of Christs Colledge S. Iohns Trinitie Colledge in Oxforde of Emanuell Marimagdalen Caius Colledge in Cambridge did they not beare the name of protestant Catholikes that founded them Many grammer Schooles also might be named diuers other prouisions that protestant catholikes haue made both for the maintenance and increase of learning and also for the succouring of the poore and néedy If any tares doo spring vp amogst this good graine that haue bin sowne by the enuious man it is no fruit that springeth out of that good faith religion that we professe If your word promise therfore be any thing worth thē I require you to doo the part of an honest man in yéelding recanting The foureteenth Offer Offerer Fourteenth Let the learned protestant name any one fellowship or company of belieuers in the whole Christian world that in all articles of faith and religion be in one vnity in one meaning and beliefe and contented also to captiue submit their seueral meanings to the iudgment of their prelats and spirituall gouerners and of one chiefe head pastor amongst them in all Ecclesiasticall things and causes let I say the learned protestant name any one company thus agreeing amonge themselues and thus humbly affected in Christian faith and religion sauing onely the holie and blessed fellowship of the common knowne Catholike church of Christ and I will then recant and not before Crowley Vnderstanding by the holy blessed fellowship of the cōmon known Catholike church of Christ as I am assured that you doo that Antichristian church that you are of I cōfesse that there cānot any one fellowship or cōpany of belieuers in the whole christian world be named that is such a fellowship or cōpany as you would haue the learned protestant name vnto you for in very déed there is not one fellowship or cōpany of belieuers in the whole world so foolish as to vēter the saluation of their foules vpon the iudgmēt of other men but only that fellowship whereof you are But I doo vtterly deny the fellowship to be the knowne Catholike church of Christ and am bold plainely to affirme that it is the malignant cursed church of Antichrist the filthy synagogue of satan The knowne Catholike church of Christ whereof wée hée dooth agrée in one vnity in one meaning beliefe in all the Articles of the christian faith religion Yea wée all with that whole Catholike church doo captiue submit our seueral meanings to that rule of religion that the holy ghost hath set downe in the scriptures which rule wée doo know to be so perfect that it néedeth no addition alteration or change that man can deuise And as for one chiefe head Pastor we acknowledge none amongst men being assured that our one onely head Christ Iesus that hath promised to be with vs continually euen to the end of the world neither is nor will be from vs but is and still will be with vs and dooth still and will by the working of his holy spirite instruct and leade vs in the true vnderstanding of that rule of our religion that he hath left vnto vs so that wée doo not neither shal we at any time stand in néede of any such chief heade or Pastor as this Offerer speaketh of As for Prelates spirituall gouerners we haue such as bée able to breake minister vnto vs the spirituall foode of our soules as well by preaching expounding vnto vs that rule of our religion as by ministring the sacraments that our sauiour Christ hath ordained commaunded to bée vsed in his Church To these wée giue credit so longe as wée sée that they swarue not from that rule that both they and wée are bounde to followe and they doo not desire to haue credit any further And as touching their example of life wée doo followe it so far foorth as wée sée that they followe Christ and no further For S. Paule did not wish the Corinthians to follow him further then they should sée that hée followed Christ If you bée not obstinately bent to stand to your takling against all reason and christian knowledge this that I haue héere written may suffice to mooue you to recant although hitherto you haue refused so to doo The fifteenth Offer Offerer Fifteene Againe I do demande of the learned protestant whether the Lutherans Zuinglians Illirians Caluinists Confessionists Svvinkfildians Anabaptists and such like be all of one church and congregation or no And if he be able to prooue these sects being of such diuersity in faith and religion to make one church and that euery one of them may giue saluation to their fellowes being so disagreeable one with another in high pointes of faith and religion or that I ought to belieue all those rather then the one true Catholike church of Christ or yet any of these more one then another all of them making such a bolde challenge of the truth of Gods word and gospell When the learned Protestant shal be able by good reason or drift of argumēt to satisfie these my requests then I shall yeelde and recant and not before Crowley If I did not knowe that this Offerer is past all shame I could not meruell enough to sée that he would demaunde of the learned Protestant a proofe by good reason and drift of argument that Luther Zuinglius Illiricus Caluin the Confessionists Swinkfild and the Anabaptists should bée members all
such haue a care to doo as Saint Paule dooth there exhorte when he sayeth Let euery one that calleth vpon the name of the Lord depart from euill And in so dooing they doo in some sorte make it knowen vnto men that they be the elected and chosen children of God But this knowledge can not bée so certaine that any one man may be therby assured of the election of an other because he séeth him depart from euil For gods sercet election can not be certainly knowen by any outward signes therfore the church of Christ as it consisteth of the number that God hath in his secret election appointed to be enheritors of his kingdome may rightly be sayd to be inuisile as knowen onely to God and vnknowen vnto men 2 Timoth cap. 2 But as it followeth in the same text of S. Paule to Timoth As in a great house there are vesselles not onely of golde and of siluer but of timber and of clay also some appoynted to honest vses some to dishonest euen so is it in the Church of Christ which is the housholde of God some are of one sorte and some of an other And this mixed multitude is visible and knowen to bée that number of people that beareth the name of Christ and is called christian And in thys multitude are those elected and chosen children of God that may rightly bée called the church of Christ in this respect may the secret church of Christ be called visible Math 13. This thing dooth our Sauiour Christ set foorth plainely in the parable of the net that being cast into the sea doth drawe together fishes of all sortes but when this nette is drawen to the shore the fisher men doo chuse out the good fishes and cast away the other as vnprofitable And againe in the parable of the fielde both the good graine and the tares doo growe togeather and the féelde is called the corne féeld and not the féelde of tares tyll the tyme of the Haruest bée come but then the good grayne is gathered into barnes and the tares are bound in bundles to bée burnte in the fyer Euen so the open and knowē church which is visible séene and hearde consisting of men women and children of all sortes continueth and shall continue a myxed multitude euen till the haruest which is the ende of the world shall come And then he that now dooth alone knowe his chosen Church shall make the same knowen to all men by receiuing them to himselfe and by refusing of the rest Thus this Offerer and his fellowes may sée howe the Church of Christ may be sayd to bee inuisible and yet not denied to bée visible But it is manifest what stone it is that these men doo stumble at They are perswaded that the Church of Christ must néeds be alwaies in such floorishing estate here on earth as the Church of Roome is now and as it hath continued for many yéeres togeather But they should consider that the woman the S. Iohn sawe Apoc 12. Apoc. 12. was driuen into wildernes by the crueltie of the Dragon as I haue noted in mine aunswer to the ninth offer and yet she is stil cloathed with the Sunne and hath the moone vnder her féete and is crowned with the 12. starres Yea she is the Cittie situated on the hyll the light of the world and the candle set on the candlesticke as she was euen in those daies of horrible persecution when the Bishops of Roome had no dwelling place in Roome nor the Christians in Roome any open Church to méete in for theyr exercise of Christian religion Looke well to that which I haue written in aunswer to the ninth offer and then I hope you will not charge vs as you haue doone As touching the admonitton that S. Paule gaue to the Hebrewes Hebr 13. in the 13 Chapter of that Epistle I wishe you to weighe it well and to consider the time and what doctrine was vsuall in that tyme wherein the wordes of that admonition were written Which if yée would doo you should finde that your doctrine for the real presence of Christs bodie in the holy Eucharist for the Sacrifice of the masse and the propitiation of sinnes both of the quicke and the deade thereby for your penaunce with the fruites thereof your straightnes of lyfe your vowes inuocation of Saintes and your prayer for soules departed and such lyke are the various and strange doctrines that Saint Paule dooth warne you of For all those doctrines were straung in those daies and scarcely was any one of them hearde of Thinke therefore that S. Paule sayeth vnto you be not ledde or caried away with the diuers and straung doctrines of Transubstantiation of massing for the quicke the dead of satisfying for sinnes by penaunce enioyned by a ghostly father by fasting watching praying vowing inuocating of Saints c. For they are not agréeing but contrarie to the receiued and commonly knowen doctrine of Christes Catholique church When the Popish antichristian catholiques can be able to prooue that the high Préests Scribes and Phariseis were not the raysers vppe of those contentions and strifes that were styrred vp in the dayes wherein Christ and hys apostles preached in Ierusalem and Iewrie but Christ his apostles by preaching the doctrine of the Gospell And that the contentions and strifes that haue béene and bee styll styrred vp in our dayes haue not béene nor are styll styrred vp by them by theyr preaching and maintayning of theyr strange doctrines of transubstantiation such lyke but by vs that béeing members of the most auncient Catholike Church doo preach the same catholique doctrine that Christ and hys Apoles dyd preach and none other then wyll I recant and become a Papist and not before And because I haue in the iudgement of all indifferent readers sufficiently prooued that which this Offerer hath in this Offer required the learned Protestant to prooue I doo requyre him to doo as becommeth an honest man in performing his promise Which is to submit him selfe and to recant although hetherto he haue refused so to doo The fourth signe and token of false Prophets Offerer Fourth signe and token of false Prophets Heretiques and Schismatiques is Schisma in Ecclesiam introducere To bring into the Church of Christ by their doctrine schisme diuision and seperation of one member from another and of the whole mistical body from the true head Iesus Christ For where as the health and saluation of Christ hys flocke and people dooth most cheefely consist in peace concord and vnitie they therefore which by Schisme doo deuide and disperse his flocke and of one societie and fellowship before doo make many and diuers they in not spareinge nor preseruing in vnitie the flock of Christ are become rauening Wolues Th'apostle S. Paule knowing the great daunger and hurte vprising of Schisme dooth most humbly beseech vs with all dilligent circumspection to auoide the same saying Obsecro vos
assisted mee but all men left mee alone God graunt it bee not layde to their charge c. If this Offerer his fellowes haue any eyes to sée they may sée that when the Apostle Paule being in prison in Rome did write this Epistle to Timoth. the Bishops and priests that then were in Rome were scarce worthy the name of Christians bicause they durst not stand to the profession of Christian Religion as S. Paule did but left him all alone betraying the Christian cause as much as in them lay Yea and hereof it may bée probably gathered that Peter was not then at Rome and consequently that hee was not Bishop of Rome for the space of xxv yéeres togither as the Romish Catholiques doo affirme that hee was Yea rather it may bée thought that hee neuer was Bishop of Rome for this Epistle was written in Rome the 13. yeere of the raigne of Nero which was the 35. yeere after saint Paule was conuerted to Christ But if hee were then Bishop of Rome hée was at that time either fled from Rome fearing the persecution or els being in that Citie hée durst not shew him selfe to bée of one minde with Paule and so by his example the rest that then were Christians in Rome withdrew them selues from Paule and left him all alone Thirteene yeeres before this the Apostle Paule had written to the Romaines being then at Corinth in the last yeere of the raigne of Claudius the Emperour And as it appeareth in the first Chapter of that Epistle the fame of that Church was such at that time that saint Paule wrote thus Primum quidem gratias ago Deo meo Rom. 1 per Iesum Christum pro omnibus vobis quia fides vestra annuntiatur in vniuerso mundo First of all I giue thankes to my God thorough Iesus Christ on the behalfe of you all for that your faith is declared through out the whole world The Church therefore or Congregation of Christians that then were in Rome were of the best sort of Christians And bicause that Citie was then the chiefe City that then was in the world therefore the fame of their faith was spred ouer all the world But yet as appeareth by that which is before alleaged they had their faults and infirmities which were seene in them more at one time then at another At the first when they receiued the doctrine of the gospell they were earnest professors and followers of the same as commonly men haue bin in our daies and are still but when persecution began to arise for the professing thereof they began to shew them selues to bee like that seede that being sowne fell in stony ground and yet being againe moystened with that dew of Gods grace which fell from aboue they tooke déepe roote and so became more fruitfull in the ende For many of that age gaue their liues for the testimony of the truth and were Martirs or witnesses of Iesus Christ as in the Church Histories dooth appeere But that these were the writers of the Scriptures appeareth not in any Histories for they were written before some by the Prophets and some by the Apostles and such bookes as were written after the time wherein the other Apostles liued were written by the Apostle Iohn which liued after all the rest As touching the especiall care that you say the Catholique Church hath from time to time had not only of preaching the word but also of preseruing the same c all learned Protestants doo know that no man could haue greater care to preach the woord to discerne the bookes of holy scripture from prophane writings and to preserue them from the corruption of the aduersaries then they that in the time of the tenne first persecutions professed the Catholique religion And amongst those Catholiques none were more forwarde therein then were they which then were dwelling in the City of Rome But what maketh this for proofe that the Romish Church hath alwaies bin and is still the keeper and preseruer of the scriptures The first Romish Church which was Catholique preached the gospell as the Apostles and Disciples of Christ had doone but that Romish church that now is and hath bin for the space of these last thousand yéeres almost being Antichristian dooth and hath all this while preached mens traditions is to bee noted with that saying that the Prophet Esay vsed in reprehending the Leuiticall Priestes of his time Esay 29. Esay 29. Cited by our sauiour Christ Math. 15. Math. 15. Populus hic labijs me honorat c. This people honour mee with their lips they draw nighe vnto mée with their mouth but their heart is farre from mée In vaine doo they worship mée in teaching the doctrines and commaundements of men c. The first Romish Church vsed the Sacraments that Christ had instituted religiously and to that end that our sauiour Christ had instituted them for but that Romishe Church which you call Catholique hath for the space of these 1000. yeeres almost and dooth still abuse those Sacraments namely Baptisme and the Supper of the Lord commonly called the Sacrament of the body and blood of our sauiour Christ For that Church dooth minister that sacrament to Churches to Belles and to Ships that saile on the seas and of the other sacrament they make an Idole lifting it vp ouer their heads to bee worshipped setting it vpon their high alter or hanging it ouer the same burning incense before it and vsing iestures of diuine honour before it and carying it abroade in pompous maner compelling the people to doo diuine honour to it Yea they offer it vp to God as a sacrifice for the sinnes both of the quick the dead and in tempests of weather and in coniurations they make it a bug to feare the diuell withall The first Catholique Church in their exercise of Religion did vse as few Ceremonies as might bee for they knew that our sauiour Christ had broken downe that midle walle or particion which was the lawe of Ceremonies contayned in the lawe written and had through the flesh bin the occasion that discord whereby the nations of the worlde were so seuered from the people of Israell that they could neuer ioyne with them in one religion till our sauiour Christ had made it voyde and made of both the people 's but one new man making peace that he might reconcile both in one body And Ephe. 2. Ephe. 2. But your Romish Catholique Church hath reedified a new middle walle or particion of a law of Ceremonies not contayned in the law written but diuised by men And that particion they doo still maintaine and vphold enforcing all men that will beare the name of Christ and bée called Christians to allow of and to vse those Ceremonies and all such as doo refuse those Ceremonies they doo excommunicate and deliuer to the secular powre to bée consumed to ashes with fire or otherwise to bée tormented onely bicause they refuse to vse
those Ceremonies To bée briefe the first Catholique church did acknowledge none to bée her vniuersall head but Christ Iâ—sus onely and shée submitted her selfe to bee gouerned in matters of faith by his spirite which spirite did in déede gouerne hir in the vnderstanding of the scriptures which are the rule of Christian Religion And in ciuill gouernement shee submitted herselfe to Princes and other Potentats acknowledging that God hath giuen vnto them the power of the sword and hath made them his reuengers vpon earth coÌ„maunding them to vse that power in defending innocents and in punishing of such as doo transgresse his lawes But your Romish Catholique church must haue a Pope to bee hir vniuersall head vnder the name of Christes vicar generall and hee must haue absolute power vpon earth diriued from the Apostle Peter that neuer tooke vpon him selfe any such power but willed all Christians to submit themselues to all estates of men euen for the Lord Iesus sake Yea hee willed them to honour all men to loue brotherly fellowship to feare God and to honour the king 1. Peter 2. 1. Peter 2. But your Pope must haue power ouer all men euen ouer Princes to whom Peter submitted him selfe and willed al christians to doo the like Yea hée must haue power to depose all such Princes as will not bow to him and bee his Executioners in executing the paines of death vpon all such as it pleaseth him to take for Heretikes Such Princes dooth your Pope take vpon him to depose to depriue them of all princely dignitie to set vp in their place such as will submit them selues vnto him become his sworne vassalles And that he may the more easily bring these things to passe hée absolueth all the subiects of such Princes from their dutifull oth of obedience which they haue dutifully taken to those their leage and naturall Princes Yea as late and daily practises doo teach they spare not to promise the kingdome of God to such subiects as will most vndutifully most vnnaturally murder not onely their naturall countrimen but also their naturall Princes By these differences it apreareth how great the difference is betwixt the first Romish church which was in déede Catholique and yours which you call catholique but is in déede Cacolike But now you conclude that if the learned Protestant can prooue that the priuate conuenticles congregations of the Protestants were the first bringers foorth of the sacred Bible and written woord of God the chiefe preseruers and defenders of the same in all times and ages from all Iewes Gentiles Heretikes and schismatiks then you wil reuolt and recant as you haue saide before To this I say on the behalfe of the learned Protestant that neither the Catholique church nor any other congregations haue bin the first bringers foorth of the sacred Bible c. For those bookes which are called the Bible were brought foorth and written before our sauiour Christ sayd thus to the Iewes Scrutamini scripturas c. Ioh. 5. Ioh. 5. Serch the scriptures c. And as for the preseruing and defending of them from Iewes Gentiles c. I say that it hath not bin the worke of man but of God him selfe who is the only Author of the same Apocal. 6. In the sixt chapter of saint Iohns Reuelations it is written that when the third seale of that booke which was sealed with seuen seales was opened there was a voyce which came from the midst of the foure beasts which saide to him that sate vpon the blacke horse had a balaunce in his hand Wine and oyle see thou doo not hurt In the iudgment of all learned interpreters wine and oyle doo in that place signifie the scriptures which God would not suffer to bee hurt by any mans interpretation no not in the time of most déepe Ignorance The Iewes could neuer corrupt the text of the Canonicall scriptures although they lacked no good will to haue corrupted them Neither could your Popish catholiques at any time corrupt those scripcures for God hath reserued a Remnant of the Iewes with whom those scriptures are and alwaies haue bin had in such estimation and reuerence that they would neuer leaue them to any that would corrupt them and this hath God wrought by them vsing them as his instruments therein In like manner the Grecians haue bin his instruments in kéeping the Gréeke text both of the olde and newe testament from all manner of Corruption in all partes thereof that doo concerne any parte of the substance of our Religion so that though your Popish Catholiques would as no doubt they are willing enough yet they can not corrupt either the Hebrew or Gréeke text Thus if you will you may sée maister Offerer that God alone by such meanes as hée hath dooth and will vse hath bin the bringer foorth of the sacred Bible and other holy scriptures for the holy men of God did speake as the holy spirite of God did mooue them to speake 2. Pet. 1. 2. Peter 1. And it is hée that hath vsed his good meanes both in discerning of the holy writings from the prophane and also in preseruing and defending of them from all maner corruption Wherefore if you minde to bée as good as your woord you must reuolt and recant The third Offer The Offerer Third Shew mee good reason why yee Protestants doo belieue our Catholique Church enforming and telling you this to bee the woord of God written the true Bible and sacred scriptures and doo refuse to credit hir in the true sense and vnderstanding of the same Scripture shee being vndoubtedly led with the spirite of God in them both For if the Catholique Church had the spirit of God in discerning and iudging the true Scriptures of God from the rest not Scriptures why should not wee belieue that same Catholique church gouerned and led by the same spyrite in giuing the true sense meaning and vnderstanding of the Scriptures When yee shal be able to render a sufficient reason of the one and not of the other I shall then yeelde and recant and not before Crowley There is no reason why wée should shewe you good reason why wée doo that thing which none of vs either haue done doo or minde to doo In beliuing that the Bible and scriptures that wee haue is the true Bible and scripture wée doo as the people of Sichar did Iohn the fourth chapter They said to the woman that told them of Iesus Iam non propter tuam orationem credimus c. Iohn 4. Now doo wée belieue not bicause of the tale that thou hast told vs for wee our selues haue heard and doo know that this is very Christ the sauiour of the world Euen so wee confesse that when wee were amongst you wée heard you talke of a Bible scriptures wée were desirous to sée them but you kept them from vs by all the meanes that you coulde deuise but at the
commit the chiefe charge and supreme gouernment of his Church c. Is altogither vnnecessarie for neuer did any of that sorte affirme that to bée true Wée doo all know that our Sauiour Christ did not call Emperours Kings Quéenes nor Princes to make them his messengers or Apostles but he called Fisher men and such other and made them able and méete to doo his message euen to Princes and Emperours and to all other the greatest personages in the world As saint Paule writeth 1. Cor. 1. 1 Cor 1 Quae stulta sunt mundi elegâ— Deus vt confundat sapientes c. God hath chosen the foolish things of the world that hée might confounde the wise and God chose the weake things of the world to confounde the stronge and the base and dispised thinges of the world hath God chosen yea and those thinges that bée not that hée might destroy those thinges that bée Yea and wée doo know that God did not prepare the hearts of the Princes and chiefe men of the world to receiue the doctrine of the gospell with the first so that the Apostle Paule had occasion to write thus to the same Corinthians 1. Cor. 1. 1 Cor 1 Videte vocationem vestram c. Brethren consider your calling for there are not amongst you many wise men after the flesh not many mighty not many of noble Parentage c. Yea in the daies wherein Saint Augustin cliued which was 400. yéeres after the ascention of our sauiour Christ it séemed a strange thing euen in the City of Rome that any man of any account in the world would become a Christian man For when Victorinus a famous Rhethorician in that City would professe the Religion of Christ and be baptized hée did it as Saint Augustine hath written Confessionum lib. 8. cap. 2. Mirante Roma gauâ—â—nte Ecclesia August lib 8 Cap 2 Rome meruelling and the Church of Christ in Rome reioyceing There is therefore no cause why you shoulde require the learned Protestant to prooue by plain Scriptures that our Sauiour Christ did commit the chiefe charge and supreme gouernment of his Church to Emperors c. But this the Protestants doo hold and are able to prooue by plaine places of the Scriptures that Emperors Kings Quéenes Princes Dukes and all other Potentates are the supreme gouernours of those peoples ouer whom God hath placed them whether the same people bée by profession Christians or Miscreants Yea and that the chiefe charge that euery of these Potentates haue from God is that they shall in their owne persons walke in the Lordes wayes and leade their people in the same And for that cause they are in the Scriptures called Pastores that is Shéepeheards as in the 44. Cha. of his Prophecies Esay 44 Esaie speaking in the person of God saith Qui dico Cyro Pastor meus 〈◊〉 omnem voluntatem meam complebis That is Which doo say vnto Cyrus thou arte my Shéepeheard and thou shalt fulfill all my will Cyrus was an Heathen prince and yet the Lord calleth him his Shéepeheard and commaundeth him to fulfill all his will and pleasure King Dauid being a Shéepheard in déede was taken from the Shéepefold and made king ouer all Israell that hée might féede that people of the Lord euen as a Shéepeheard féedeth his flocke And hée did rule them prudently with all his possible powre Psal 78. Psalm 78 And that these Potentates might bée able to discharge that duety that the Lord God hath appointed them to doo hée hath giuen vnto them the powre of the Sword as in the 13. Rom 13. Chapter to the Romaines it appeareth Principes saith Saint Paule non sunt timori boni operis sed mali c. Princes are not to bée feared of them that doo well but of them that doo euill Wilt thou bée without feare of the Potentate Doo well and thou shalt bée praised of him For hée is Gods minister to doo the good But if thou doo euill then feare him for hée beareth not a Sword for nought Hée is Gods minister to take vengeance on him that dooth euill c. At that time wherein the Apostle wrote those woordes to the Romaines there was not one Christian Prince as it may bée thought in all the world And yet hée dooth certifie the Romaines that euen those heathen Princes were ordained of GOD for the benefit of Christians as of all other sortes of men that world bend them selues to walke in hys wayes and not contynue in ignoraunce of lyfe And for the punishment of all such as should giue them selues to leade a dissolute life Yea and it belonged to the office euen of those Princes not onely to vse the powre of the Sword in defending Innocents and in punishing wicked doers but also to set foorth aduaunce and maintaine right and true Religion as in the holy Histories it dooth appeare that they did as often as by any occasion their hearts were touched with the feare of GOD As Darius the Persian Emperour when hee had séene the mighty powre of GOD in preseruing Daniell in the Lyons den did hee not write immediately to all his subiects commaunding them to feare to stand in awe of Daniels God confessing him to be the lyuing and euerlasting God that his kingdome powre is euerlasting and that it is hée that deliuereth and saueth worketh woonders both in Heauen in Earth Daniel 6. Daniel 6. The same Darius as it appeareth in the sixt Chapter of the first booke of Esdras coÌ„maunded that the Temple in Hierusalem which had bin destroyed by the Babylonians should bée reedified as king Cyrus had commaunded and that it should bée furnished with all things necessary and meete for the seruice of God 1. Esdras 1. 6. 1. Esd 1. 6 And amongst the good kings of Israell and Iuda Dauid not without a secret motion from God I am sure did cause the Arke of Gods couenant to bée brought to Hierusalem and placed in a Tabernacle which hée had prepared for it there yea and in his owne person hée vsed all such behauiour as might tend to the setting foorth of the glorie of God and abase him selfe in the sight of God and at his owne charges hée caused much sacrifice to bée offered to the Lord and afterward hée blessed the people of the Lord and gaue rewards of meate drinke to euery one of them as well the women as the men As appeareth in the sixt Chapter of the second booke of Samuell which you call the second of the kings 2. Reg. 6 And I pray you good M. Offerer who was hée whom God appointed to build his Temple in Hierusalem was it not Salomon the king And did not hée builde it in déed and furnish it according as the Lord had coÌ„maunded him Tertij Reg. 5. c. And who reformed Religion destroied the Idols that king Achas had caused to bee set vp in the Temple was it
not his sonne Ezechias And did not the same Ezechias brake the brasen Serpent 4. Reg. 18. bicause the people had burned Incense to it Yea and when the Priestes did any thing in the reformation of Religion did they it not by the appointment and at the commaundement of those good kings Dauid Salomon Ezechias and Iosias Reade the History of the kings and you shall sée And what did Christ come to take this Authority from Princes And hath hée taken it from them and giuen it to Peter and his Successors Hée him selfe hath acknowledged that authority in Princes in that hée payde Tribute to the Emperour both for him selfe and for Peter Math. 17. In the 13. Chapter to the Romaines Math 17. saint Paule declareth that the paying of Tribute is an acknowledging of the highest authority in Princes Chrysostome Chrysost in Rom. 13. expounding that place of Saint Paules Epistle writeth thus Cur enim inquit vectigalia Regi damus Nunquid tanquam prospicienti Nunquid tanquam praesidenti curae tuitionisque mercedem soluentes For why saith hée doo wée giue Tribute to the king Doo wée not giue it as vnto him that hath a prouident care for vs Doo wée it not as men that pay vnto him that hath the rule of vs the wages or hyer that is due to him for the care that hée hath to defend vs 1 Peter 2 And dooth not Saint Peter from whom your Bishops and Priests doo claime their high authority write thus in the second Chapter of his first Epistle Subdite igitur estote c. Bée yée subiect therefore to euery humaine creature euen for the Lords cause whether it be to the king as to him that excelleth either to Dukes as to them that are sent of him for the punishment of euill dooers but for â—he praise of them that bée good For so is the will of God that behauing your selues well you may stop the mouthes of foolish and Ignoraunt men as being free and not hauing the liberty for a cloke of maliciousnes but as the seruants of God Thus if you haue eyes to sée you may sée that the very testimonies that you haue alleaged being taken in their right sence doo prooue sufficiently that though no learned Protestant can prooue or dooth or hath affirmed that our Sauiour Christ did commit the chiefe charge and supreme gouernmeÌ„t of his Chruch to Emperors kings c. Yet the chiefe charge sepreme gouernment of men of all sorts hath bin alwaies is still and euer shal be in such Potentats euen by the ordinance of God him selfe as by the other testimonies that I haue alleaged dooth most manifestly appeare And where as you require the learned Protestant to prooue that any one of Christes Apostles or Disciples did by preaching the Protestants doctrine conuert any people lande or countrey from their Idolatry and Ethnike kinde of liuing to Christian faith and Religion as of onely faith to iustifie c. I say that neuer any one of the Apostles or Disciples of Christ were the meanes that God vsed in the conuerting of any one lande people or countrey by the preaching of any other doctrine then that which you call the Protestants doctrine You note sixe points of doctrine preached by the Protestants which as you say neither the Apostles nor any Disciple of Christ preached First that faith onely iustifieth Secondly that all good works are vncleane in the sight of God Thirdly that there is no frée will Fourthly that the body of Christ is not really present in the Eucharist Fiftly that the blessed Masse is not a Sacrifice And sixtly the abolishing of Christes Sacraments and all the graces and goodnes that is conferred to vs by them For the first I say that Christ him selfe hath taught it in that hée hath sayd thus Mar. 16. Qui crediderit baptizatus fuerit saluus erit Qui vere non crediderit coâ—demnabitur Marci 16 Hée that shall belieue and bée baptized shal be saued But hée that shall not belieue shal be condemned Saint Paule hath taught it to the Romaines Chap. 5. Rom. 5. in these woords Justificati ergo ex fide pacem habeamus ad Deum per Dominum nostrum Iesum Christum per quem habemus accessum per fidem in gratiam istam in qua stamus gloriamar in spe gloriae filiorum Dei. Being iustified by faith therefore let vs bee at peace with God through our Lord Iesus Christ by whom wée haue accesse through faith into this grace wherein wée stand and doo reioyce in the hope of the glorie of the children of God To take from you all occasion of quarrelling I haue cited the words of S. Paule as I finde them in your allowed latine translation Although I doo know that in the gréeke it is thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Pacem habemus And not habeamus Wée haue peace and let vs not haue peace but to a simple meaning minde the sence is all one whether wée say wee haue peace or let vs haue peace And in the end of the sentence it maketh no difference to say wée glory or reioyce in the hope of the sonnes of God or wee reioyce in the hope of the glory of God For take it which way yee will Saint Paules meaning must néedes bée that wée are iustified that is wée apprehend and lay hold vpon frée discharge of our sinnes that wée haue by the mediation of Christ onely by faith and by none other meane And againe in the second Chapter to the Ephesians Ephe. 2. Saint Paule writeth thus Gratia enim estis saluati per fidem hoc non ex vobis Dei enim dâ—num est non ex operibus ne quis glorietur For by grace that is frée mercy you are saued thorough faith and that not 〈…〉 selues For it is the gifte of God and commeth not of workes least any man should boaste The Epistles of the Apostle Paule are full of matter to prooue this pointe of doctrine to bee true The second pointe of doctrine is as you doo terme it the contempt of good workes and that they bee all vncleane in the sight of God Wee contemne not good workes but wée esteeme of them as they ought to bee esteemed of that is as of the good fruites of a good faith And wée teach that no workes may bée accounted good otherwise or in any other respect but as they bée the fruits of a good faith This point of doctrine was taught by our sauiour Christ when hée sayd thus Lucae 17. Cum feceritis omnia quae praecepta sunt vobis Lucae 17. dicite serui inutiles sumus Quod de buimus facere fecimus When yee shall haue doone all that you are commaunded to doo then say we are vnprofitable seruants We haue doone that our duety was to doo And againe in the 20. of Mathew Math. 20. in the Parable of the labourers that laboured in the Vineyarde Volo autem
euen so did they 1. Ti. 2 1. Timot. 2. we beléeue that Christ Iesus hath taken vpon him selfe all our infirmities that the correction that was due to our sins is fallen vpon him and that by those wounds that he suffered we are made whole and so did they Es 53. Esay 53. We beléeue that Christ Iesus is that Lambe of God that hath taken awâ—y the sins of the world and so did they Ioh. 1. 1. Iohn 1. We beléeue that he is that son of the blessed virgin Mary whom the Angel named before he was borne saying to Ioseph his supposed father thou shalt call his name Iesus for he shall saue his people from their sins Mat 1 Math. 1. and so did they We doo beléeue that it is he that is our high Préest that he is entred into the holiest place of the tabernacle not made with handes and hath made there a sacrifice not of straying blood as of a Calfe or of a Goate but of his own heart blood hath thereby obtained vs eternall redemption Hebr 9 Heb. 9. and euen so dyd they We doo beléeue that Christ Iesus hath by that one oblation made of him selfe once offered made perfect as many as be made holy that is all the elected people of God and that he hath thereby so satisfied to God for the sins of all such that they shall neuer be charged with their sins any more and that where there is remission of sins theris no more sacrifice to be offered for sin Heb. 10. Hebr 10. euen so did they We know and confesse that our duty is to be as careful as possibly we may to liue with our sin and that when by infirmity of our nature we do sin we haue an aduocate with God the father which is Iesus Christ the righteous and that he is the propitiation for our sins 1 Io 2 1 Iohn 2. and euen so did they To be bréefe we differ not from theÌ„ neither did they differ from vs in any one point of the substance of faith And where as the Offerer saith that those holy Martirs c. were not of our religion I am sure that we doo hold professe that religion Iacob 1. that S. Iames dooth call pure vndefiled before God the father which is to visite the fatherlesse and widdowe in their tribulation for a man to kéepe himself vnspotted of this world And I thinke that M. Offerer will not deny that the holy martirs the rest that he speketh of did hold professe the same religion And how can he then say that they were not of the Protestantes religion If the Offerer will say that those Martirs c. did obserue and kéepe the religion and did performe in déede that which they did professe so that they were in déede vnspotted of thys world which none of vs dooth then I must say that they all did say as all we doo say as the Prophet Dauid hath written Psa 143. Psa 143 Esay 64 Lord enter not into iudgement with thy seruant for no flesh is righteous in thy sight And as the Prophet Esay hath written Cha. 64. Al our righteousnesses 1 Iohn 1 are euen like vnto a filthy cloath And as the Apostle Iohn hath wrytten 1. Epist 1. If wée shall say that we haue no sinne wée shall desceiue our selfe and there is no trueth in vs. And where as the Offerer hath termed his virgins pure and innocent I thinke he wold haue sayd immaculate for that is an Epithiton méeter for a virgin then innocent is I am sure that none of them was either pure or innocent of them selfe neither did they account them selfe so to be but being washed in the fountaine of water by the worde of lyfe they were members of that glorious Church that in Christ is purged and made so cleane that in it is neyther spot nor wrincle or any such thing but in him al those Martyrs confessours virgins and we also that doo beléeue as they dyd are holy and vnblameable haue in vs no spot of sin Ep 5. Ephe 5. For Christ Iesus hath washed vs in the sope of his owne hart blood and made vs as white as the most white woole yea and as shining white as the snowe We therfore with the Martirs confessors and virgins that you speake of are the virgins that doo and for euer shall accompanie the Lambe Christ vpon the Mount Sion Apo 14. Apoc 14. As for your approouing and cannonizing of these Martirs c. Whereby you haue made them saintes after they were departed out of this lyfe it may well be compared to the building and garnishing of the Tombes of the Prophets by the Scribes and Phariseis Math 23. Math. 23. For although you pretende to haue a reuerend care for the kéeping of the worthy and valiant acts of those Martirs in remembrance yet you doo daily murder as many of that sorte of men as God wyll suffer you to haue power ouer and so you shew your selues to be the children of those bloody Tyrants that murdered those Martyrs that you speake of I thinke you can not but see now that all the thousandes of Martyrs confessors and virgins that were brought forth in the first sixe hundreth yéeres next after the ascention of our Sauiour Christ were the children of that Mother the holy Catholique Church of Christ that hath brought foorth and nourished vp vs whome you call Schismatickes and Heretickes But now I pray you good M. Offerer let mee learne of you the name of one Martir that your mother the Popish Catholique Church hath brought forth since the dayes of Boniface the thyrd which was the time wherein your Apostacie beganne I thinke you can not name me one Martyr that hath béene brought foorth by that mother of yours in all that time which is almost the space of a thousande yéeres Not one I am sure of all your Popes that haue succéeded that Bonifacius hath béene made a Martyr excepte you account for martirdome the poisoning of some of them which hath béene doone by some such as themselues that haue hasted to be in theyr place And the rest of the Children of that mother haue béene whelpes of the same heare namely blood thirstie bloodhoundes and bloody Butthers Curres Yea it appeareth manifestly that the whole state of your Popish Catholique Church hath béene and still is none other thing but that which was figured by that two horned Beast that rose out of the earth of whom mencion is made in the 13. Chap of the Reuelations So that Apoc 13 this mother of yours neither hath nor dooth bring foorth Martirs but hath dooth make Martyrs whom the holy Catholique Church of Christ our mother hath and dooth daily bring foorth and nourishe vp For whosoeuer in all this time hath refused to worship the image of the Beast which is the estate of the Romish Papacie hath dyed for
woman that had borne a sonne which is our sauiour Christ and the woman is his Catholique church This Church did the Dragon the diuell persecute by the ministrie of the Romaine Emperors by the space of 294. yéeres vnder Nero Domitian Tâ—aâ—ant Seuerus Commodus Decius and Dioclesian All this while the Dragon did persecute the Catholique church séeke by all meanes possible to roote it out but Almighty God had in mercifull prouidence prouided for his Church two wings of a great Egle whereby shée tooke flight into the wildernes into the place that was prepared for hir where shée was norished all that time out of the sight of the serpent Yea the serpent did cast out of his mouth after the woman as it had bin a riuer of water that shee might haue bin violently borne away of the water But the earth did help the woman and opening hir mouth did swallow vp the Riuer that the Dragon had cast out of his mouth after hir If such as bée of the learned sorte amongst them that be of the Romish Catholique church would with humbled mindes reade this booke of Reuelations séeke for the true fence meaning but of this one vision vndoubtedly they should finde and I hope they would confesse that the true Catholike church of Christ that was figured by the woman had not the glory of the world as the Romish Catholique church hath now but was in this world obscure and after a sorte hid from the presence of such as the serpent had stirred vp to persecute hir which were the mighty Emperors and other that were of great powre within the Romaine Empire And yet was shée still clad with the sunne had the Moone vnder hir féete c. That is shée was still glorious in the sight of God and of all good men For hir garment was Christ the bright shining light of the world Vnder hir feete shée had the Moone still for shée contemned trode vnder foote the vaine pompe glory of this world which shineth gloriously in the sight of the blinde worldlings euen as the Moone dooth in the darknes of the night Yea and shée had hir head crowned with the twelue starres the Patriarches which were Fathers to the twelue kinreds of Israell or those twelue Messengers or Apostles which our sauiour Christ had sent foorth as starres to giue light in the darknes of this world Yea although shee dwelt still in Rome in other Cities that belonged to the Romaine Empire yet shee was as in a wildernes as hauing nothing and yet possessing all things c. 2. Cor. 6. 2 Cor â— So that if this Offerer would but consider this conceiue in his minde the countenance that the Catholique church could beare in this world during the time of persecution vnder the aboue named Emperors surely hee would neuer for shame say that our Church is not the Catholique church bicause we confesse that for the space of one thousand yeeres it was by the two horned beast that is by the papacie kept vnder as that Church which hee him selfe dooth confesse to bée the right Catholique church of Christ was by the seuen headed Dragon which was the Romaine Empire If the Catholique church might haue hir Apostles Prophets Euangelists Pastors and Doctors as vndoubtedly shee had in the time of the first bloody persecutions which continued for the space of 294. yeeres almost continually why might shee not haue so many of those ministers as were necessarie for hir edification during the time of the later persecution which hath continued how almost a thousand yeeres togithers Yea and why might not she haue the ministration of Sacraments and execution of discipline as well in the one time as in the other And so by good consequence Why may not the Protestants Church be the Catholique church of Christ as well as that Church was that differed as much in all points from the knowne Popish Catholique church as our Protestant Catholique church dooth differ now from the same I conclude therefore that it is altogither vnnecessary to prooue any way that any other gospell or doctrine then that which was preached by the Apostles or any other SacrameÌ„ts then the same that Christ Iesus did first institute or any other discipline then that which the Catholique church of Christ hath practized should hée preached ministred and practized vniuersally openly that thereby wée might prooue our Church to be Catholique For it is manifest by the hystories that the right Catholique church hath sildome had such fréedome vpon earth that shee might haue hir doctrine publikely vniuersally preached hir sacraments ministred and hir discipline practized Wherefore except you will shew your selfe wilfull and obstinate you must now recant although heretofore you would not The tenth offer Offerer Tenth For as much as the Protestants doo affirme their congregation faith and Religion to haue bin practized in the Primatiue Church of Christ some of them for the space of the first three huÌ„dreth yeeres as Iohn Caluin some for the space of foure or fiue hundred yeeres as Martin Luther and his complices some for the whole space of the first sixe hundred yeeres as M. Ievvell and the authors of the Apollogie of the Church of England and therein not agreeing amongst themselues as the manner of Heretikes is I require some better staied and certaine tale of them where and when this sodaine change from the Protestants religion to the Papists should bee made as in what yeere of our Lord vnder what Pope and Emperor by what persons of name it was so wrought and brought to passe and vpon what occasion and what Apostles Prophets Euangelists Pastors and Doctors of their congregations did gainesay or withstand the same And who dooth make any mention of this sodaine merueilous change of the Protestants religion to Papistrie what one Ecclesiasticall writer or auncient Father of the whole world and when they shal be able resonably to answere and to satisfie these my demaunds then I will recant and yeelde to them and not before Crowley This Offerer minding vtterly to discredit the Protestants hath with his pen testified for them that they doo al agree in this one point which is that their Congregation Faith and Religion haue bin practized in the Primatiue church of Christ But here hée thinketh to discredit them all Some of them as Iohn Caluin doo affirme that this was for the space of the first thrée hundreth yéeres some other as Martin Luther and his complices for the space of foure or fiue hundreth yéeres and some others as M. Iewell and the authors of the Apologie of the Church of England for the whole space of the first fixe hundreth yéeres c. To this I say That such amongst vs as haue said that the congregation or Church whereof wée bée had continuance for the space of the whole first sixe hundreth yéeres haue sayd truely and they that haue said for the space of thrée foure or
of one church For the darknesse is no more contrary to the light neither falshoode to the truth nor the deuill to God then the doctrine of Swenkfield and of the Anabaptists is to the doctrine of Luther Caluin and Zuinglius But this is the drift of this Offerer To beare the world in hand that wée Protestants doo holde maintaine euery point of doctrine that is contrarie to or diffreth from that Antichristian doctrine which hée his fellowes doo call Catholike and that wée haue none other authors of our religion but these whom hee hath héere named such like Vndoubtedly hée is heerein very much disceiued For although wée doo for good cause like very well of the iudgment of some of these men that bee heere named yet wée haue not sworne to belieue all that they haue written neither yet anie one woorde that they haue written further then they haue by the scriptures made proofe of that which they haue affirmed in writing Wée are not Lutherans Zuinglians nor Caluinists but wée are Christians as in our opinion Luther Zuinglius and Caluin were They were of one minde with S. Austen that desired no credit further then hée prooued his assertions by scripture I pray you therefore good M. Offerer offer vs not such discurtisie as to cause the world to conceiue such an opinion of vs that wée holde and maintaine wée care not and knowe not what Wée thanke the Lord our God wée are not ignoraunt what wée doo and what Christians ought to belieue and wée are ready and able to render an account of the hope that is in vs. And our God hath made vs able to iudge of the spirites and to discerne the spirite of truth from the spirite of errour And by that gifte of our God wée are made able to sée that your spirite is the spirite of Antichrist and your religion Antichristian And that the religion that wée doo professe is Catholique and the same that was professed and practized euen in Rome for the space of 300. yeeres and more next after the ascention of our Sauiour Christ And where as you require the learned Protestant to prooue that these sectes being so diuers c. or any of them do giue saluation to theyr fellowes and that you ought to béeléeue them all or any one of them we leaue to your selfe to be discussed at your leasure For we knowe that no companie or societie of men hath any power to giue any saluation neither to others or to themselues that no man is bound to beléeue another farther then hée dooth knowe that the same hath and dooth speake and write the trueth I sée no cause therefore why you should not yéeld and recant although the learned Protestant neither can prooue nor will take vpon him to prooue the thing that you haue so impudently required him to prooue The sixteenth Offer Offerer Sixteenth When the Protestant shal be able to prooue that those persons which in theyr departure made frō the Catholique Church of Christ haue more desire to beare the name of Sectaries as of Lutherans Zuinglians Illerians Caluinistes Swenkfieldeans Anabaptistes thē the name of Christians or Catholiques are the true members of Christ his Church and not Heretickes and Schismatickes nor yet followers therein of theyr fathers the Arians whych tooke theyr names of Arrius the Maniches of Manes the Nestorians of Nestorius the Nouatians the Vigilians the Iouinians Pelagians Eutichians and others then I shal yeeld and recant and not before Crowley Let the Protestant make the lyke offer and so the one offer shall be a sufficient answer to the other When the Antichristian Catholique shal be able to prooue that suche persons as doo desire rather to be called Fraunciscans of Fraunces Dominicans of Dominicke Benedictines of Benedict Augustiniās of Augustine Barnardines of Barnard Brigettines of Briget and so foorth of all the seuerall orders of Friers Monkes Chanons and Nunnes rather then by the common name of Christians bee true members of Christes Catholique Church and not Sectaries Heretickes and Schismatickes nor yet followers of theyr Fathers the Arrians which tooke theyr name of Arius c. Then will the Protestant yéelde and recant and so become an Antichristian Catholique and not before A man might meruaile to sée the blindnes of this Offerrer that could not sée howe easily this balde offer of his might be turned backe vpon himselfe Yea there is much greater reason to mooue any man to thinke that the Monkes Friers and Chanons Nunnes and others of the Popish religious persons doo desire to be named after the first founders of their religions then that they which do fauour and followe the doctrine of Luther Caluine or any other doo desire to be called by the names of them whose doctrine they followe or fauour For were it not that such as doo mislike with the doctrine of Luther and the rest doo in dirision call the fauourers of that doctrine by the names of those chéefe teachers of the doctrine wée should not amongst thousands finde one that would giue any of those names to himselfe But the Popes religious persons doo for the most parte blot out of memorie the names that were giuen vnto them when they were baptised as Frier Iohn Frauncis Minime of Nigion in Fraunce was called Debnam by hys Progenie and kindred whereof he came and at his Baptisme the name Samuell was giuen vnto him I thinke it will be hard for this Offerer to prooue that this is not a flat renouncing of Christ and Christendome For in this new name not onely the progenie of his naturall parentes is renounced but that religion also that was professed when he was baptised and in that new profession that he hath made thereis no promise made of obedience to Christ or vowe to obserue Christian religion but to obay the Father Prior and all the superiours in that order and to obserue that rule of S. Frauncis order If this be not a flatte forsaking of Christ then vndoubtedly no man can forsake him And what may bée thought of you Antichristian Catholiques Doo not you forsake Christ where you chuse a man to bée his Vicar generall captiueing and submitting your seuerall meaninges to the iudgement of your Prelates and spiritual gouerners and of one chéefe heade and pastor amongest those Prelates and that in all Ecclesiasticall thinges and causes Well I would wish you to remember your selfe better and to consider from how good loouing and faithfull a shéepheard you are gone astray and by howe many waies hee hath and dooth still séeke to bringe you home againe to hys shéepfolde the right and true Catholique Church consider that you haue willingly wittingly and wilfully made your selfe captiue to the greatest enimy that your shéephearde Christ hath or can haue Make hast to returne your shéepeheard will with ioy receiue you Your sinne is great in forsaking such a shéepheard and yet not so great but it may be pardoned Repent and beléeue the
the worthynesse of mens works and the satisfying to God for sinnes committed against his maiestie And for your vnprofitable and hurtfull vsages it were enough to will the reader to remember your gadding on Pilgrimage your visiting kissing and worshipping of Reliques and your burning of Lights before blinde Stockes and Stones in the open day and sunne light And for your damnable abuses there néedeth no more but to wish the reader to consider of your abhominable Masse which you make a sacrifice for the sinnes both of the quick and of the deade which being doone I sée no reason why the readers may not cry out say vnto this Offerer and his fellowes yéelde and recant for shame The one and twenty Offer Offerer One and twentie If vnity in faith austerity of lyfe sharp discipline great penance much fastings large almes godly deuotion obedience to higher powers grauitie and true charitie bee not more euidently exercised and vsed in our cōmon knowne Catholike church then in the protestants congregation and contrarywise if discord in religion licentiousnes in liuing contempt of discipline reiecting of penaunce lothsomnesse of fasting lacke of zeale and deuotion disobedience to magistrates Sacrilege Apostacie breaking of vowes vnlawfull lusts wantonnes in all lyfe and maners doo not agree better and more cleare to the Protestants then to the Catholikes being the plaine signes and fruites of a false church Then will I recant and not before Crowley How well the vnitie of the true Christian faith is exercised in your commonly knowne Catholike church that is your Antichristian church the reader may sée in the which the protestant hath written in answering the 14. Offer As for your austeritie of life your sharpnes of discipline your greatnes of penance your largenes of almes godlines of deuotion may very well be packed vp in a pocket of Hypocrisie superstition and sent to your holy father the Popes holines the next new yéere for a new yéeres gift And as for your obedience to higher powers your grauitie true charitie may right well be séene in Pope Constantine the first who admitted the Emperor Iustinian to the kissing of his foote about the yéere of our Lord 710. And in Pope Gregorie the second who caused the subiects of Leo the Emperor to breake out in open rebellion against their liege Lord the Emperor bicause he had taken Images out of churches About the yéere of our Lord 730. In Pope Steuen the 2 who suffred him selfe to bée borne into the church called Laterane vpon mens shoulders whereby hée gaue occasion to his successors to be so carried after the maner of Heathen princes About the yéere of our Lord 755. In Leo the third who being accused before the Emperor Charles the great suffered the bishops that then were present to answere the Emperor when he required them to say their mindes concerning the crimes that were laide to his charge saying thus The Apostles seat which is the heade of other seates ought not to be iudged of any man especially being a lay man About the yéere of our Lord 800. In Pope Leo the 4. also who hauing obtained a victorie against the Sarasens did offer his owne féete to bee kissed of the people About the yéere 850. In Pope Ioane who being a woman in mans apparell was Pope for the space of two yéeres and died in trauell of chylde as shee was going in Procession towards Laterane church in Rome About the yéere of our Lord 855. In Pope Steuen the sixt who through the hatred that hee bare to Formosus his predisessor did condemne him and all his acts or ordinaunces Yea and hée reuenged himselfe vpon the deade body of Formosus which déed grew into a custome from thence foorth This was about the yéere of our Lord 898. In Pope Sergius the third also who bearing a pryuate grudge towards the same Formosus did not only abrogagate all the lawes that had bin made by him but he did also cause his deade body to be taken out of the graue wherein Pope Steuen the sixt had caused him to bee buried amongst the common people and his head and thrée of his fingers to be cut of and his headlesse body to be cast into the riuer Tiber. About the yéere of our Lord 910. An example of true charitie in these two Popes Another example of true loue in a Deacon the assisting Pope Victor the second at his Masse did put poyson into his Challice so dispatched him About the yeere of our Lord 1055. In Pope Gregorie the seuenth wée sée a notable example of obedyence to the higher powers For about the yéere of our Lord 1080. hée excommunicated the Emperor Henry the 4. and absolued all his subiects from their oth of obedience to him In Pope Victor the third there is to bée séene a notable example of true loue or charitie in that person that put poyson into his Challice so dispatced him about the yéere of our Lord 1090. Alexander the third did vse Lewes king of France and Henry king of England as his Horskéepers appoynting the one of them to go one foote by his Horsses head on the right side and the other on the left each of them holding the raigne of his Bridle About the yeere of our Lord 1160. A singuler example of obedience to the hygher powers Gregorie the 8. did decrée that bishops should bee preferred before Princes in degree about the yeere of our Lord 1190. And Pope Innocent the thirde is reported to haue sayd thus in his brauerie against Phillip whom the seculer Princes had chosen to be Emperor Let the Pope take the kingly Diademe from Phillip or els let Philip take the Apostolike insigne from the Pope Who would not take this man to bee a singuler example of obedience to the higher powers Yea in the decretals that this Innocent hath set forth it is decreed that the Pope ought to haue the correcting of the Princes of the earth and that hee is Emperor whom the Pope dooth crowne This was doone about the yeere of our Lord 1200. Pope Gregorie the ninth did promise euerlasting life to as many as would serue in the field against Frederike then Emperor About the yeere of our Lord 1230. And when this Emperor was reconciled to the Popes fauour againe hee did his penance which was to bring into the treasurie of the church that is the Popes Coffers 120000. ownces of golde And yet after all this the same Pope Gregorie did excommunicate the same Emperor againe and holding a counsell with his Cardinalles hee did depriue him of his Empire caused the Crosse to be preached against him Which was to incite and to stirre vp all men to make warre against him as against the greatest enimy of Christian religion Pope Innocent the fourth did by a firme decrée make it lawful for the Pope to depose the Emperor About the yeere of our Lord 1250. Pope Martine the fourth excommunicated th' Emperor and the king of
Arragon and made warre against the sayd king of Arragon About the yeere of our Lord 1280. Pope Bonifacius 8. in a great glorie shewed him selfe twice First in his pontificalibus granting large pardons to the people and on the next day in the imperiall robes hauing a naked sworde carried before him And as hée sate in his maiestie hée cried with a lowde voyce saying Ecce duo gladij hic Behold héere are two swords This was about the yeere 1300. A Frier of the Order of the popish preachers did poyson Henry the seuenth Emperor by deliuering vnto him a consecrated hoste as they terme it wherein hee had put a stronge poyson which dispatched him About the yéere 1310. Pope Clement the sixt hauing excommunicated Lewes the Emperor and all the Princes and bishops that tooke parte with him sayd that now th' Empire was fallen vnto him and therefore he placed captaines in the cities of Italy This was about the yeere 1340. Pope Vrbane the sixt in hatred toward Clement the 7. whom the Frenchmen had chosen to be Pope tooke fiue Cardinalles and lapped them in one sacke and drowned them This was doone about the yéere 1380. A singular example of true charitie Yea and a singular example of obedience is to be seene in Alexander the third of whom I spake before in that hee admitting the Emperor Frederike surnamed Barbarossa to the kissing of his foote did set his foote in the Emperors neck pronouncing these woords of the Psalme 91. Super aspidem c. Vpon the Adder and Basiliske shalt thou walk and thou shalt stamp vpon the Lyon the Dragon This was done about the yeere 1170. And Celestinus the fourth when he crowned the Emperor Henry the fift sonne to the foresaid Frederike did set the Emperiall crowne vpon the head of the Emperor with his feete and did topple it of againe with one of his féete in token that as hee had powre to make an Emperor so hée had powre to depose him againe Héere M. Offerer may sée a number of examples of obedience to the higher powers of great grauitie of true charitie euen in such as haue bin the chiefe in his Catholike church if hée can shew mee but one example amongest them that haue bin of the protestants Catholike church like vnto these manifolde examples of commaunding controuling excommunicating persecuting and deposing of the higher powers and triumphing ouer them then will I recant the protestants Catholike religion and professe Poperie as this Offerer dooth and not before But now on the contrarie saith this Offerer if discord in religion licentiousnes in liuing contempt of discipline reiecting of penaunce lothsomnes of fasting lacke of zeale and deuotion disobedience to maiestrates sacryledge Apostacie breaking of vowes vnlawfull lusts and wantonnes in all life and maners doo not agree better more cleere to the protestants then to the Catholique being the plaine signes fraits of a false church then will I recant and not before As touching discord in religion the Offerer may think him selfe to bee sufficiently answered in that which I haue said to the fiftéenth Offer The rest that hée rehearseth as falâ—â— agréeing to the protestantes religion are not at all agréeable to that religion that the Protestants doo professe For wée say as S. Iames hath written Iacob 1. Iacob 1. If any man doo think him selfe to bee religious and yet refraineth not his owne tounge but suffreth his owne heart to go a stray that mans religion is vayne This is the religion that is pure and vndefiled before God and the father for a man to visite the fatherlesse widowes in their trouble to kéepe him selfe vnspotted of the world Yea wee holde as saint Paule teacheth Coloss 3. Coloss 3. that Christians being risen againe togither with Christ should seeke those thinges that are aboue where Christ is at the right hand of God and not things that are héere on earth Yea anâ— as the same S. Paule wrote to the Phillip 3. Philip 3. that Christians should haue their conuersation in heauen not vpon earth so that although our bodies must be heere for a while yet our mindes must be setled in heauen froÌ„ whence wée looke for a Sauiour euen the Lord Iesus who by that mighty working whereby he is able to subdue all thing to him selfe shall transforme alter and change our vile bodies and make them like vnto his owne glorious body Yea and wée doo holde as S. Paule taught the Romaines Cap. 6. Rom. 6 that such as are baptized are baptized to dye and to bee buried with Christ vnto sinne to be risen againe with him vnto righteousnes of life So that as naturally wée are enclined to make all our partes instruments or tooles of vnrighteousnes procéeding from one vnrighteousnes to another euen so being baptized our duetie is to endeuour to make our bodies and all our partes instruments of righteousnes proceeding from one righteousnes to another Yea and as hee writeth in the 12. Chap. we hold that our duety is to make our bodies a sacrifice to God that is as I take it the most acceptable seruice that wee can doo vnto God Rom. 12. Rom. 13. Yea and as he writeth it the 13. Chap. we hold that wee may make no prouision for the flesh to satisfie the lusts thereof But as he writeth 1. Tim. 6. 1. Tim. 6. hauing meats and drink and cloth necessarie house harbor wée be there with contented Yea we doo hold as S. Peter hath taught 1. Pet. 2. 1 Peter 2. that our dutie is to abstaine from fleshly lusts that fight against the soule and by honest and good conuersation to stop the mouthes of malicious speakers if it be possible to winne them to ioyne with vs in religion that wee may glorifie God togither Now let the indifferent reader iudge howe those foule vices that you doo charge our religion with doo agrée with this our profession It maye that there be some and I confesse that there bee a great number to many amongst vs which are not of vs but doo only beare the name of protestant Catholiques and are in déede of no religion And these are such as you speake of the vices that you name doo very well agree vnto theÌ„ And I pray you hath your popish Catholike church at any time lacked a good rouÌ„d number of such maner of men When your Pope who is the head of your church was such a one as Platina reporteth Iohn the 12. to be MonstruÌ„ hominis A monster amongst men and as Volateran saith Sceleratum hominem A man giuen ouer to all wickednes that he was slaine being taken in adultery And as the same Platina and Volateran doe say of Syluester the second that be gaue himselfe to the deuill that he might be made Pope and that he was made Pope in déede and did gouerne your church foure yeeres togither And your Pope Benedictus the ninth of
ought to bée Puritans also we must néedes like well of if they bee such as the apostle Iames discribeth Iacob 1 Iacob 1 If any man doo thinke himselfe to bée religious and yet refrayneth not his tongue but suffereth his owne hart to be disceiued this mans religion is vaine This religion is cleane and vnspotted before God and the father For a man to visite the fatherles and widowes in theyr trouble and to kéepe himselfe vnspotted of this world Such as haue a care to refraine theyr tongues frō all euill spéeches and all the partes of their bodies from euill actions And doo delite to be occupied in dooing good to all such as do stand in néede which is meant by the fatherles and widowes are the right puritans such as al christians shold endeuour to be in Christ Iesus all vnfained christians are pure being so made by the blood of Christ wherin such are washed made cleane so that in them there is neither spot nor wrinckle for Christ hath made them a glorious spouse for himself Eph 5. Ephe 5 And yet if these will speake truely they must euerie one of them say with the Apostle Paule Rom 7. There is nothing in me that is to say in my flesh vnderstanding therby his nature which is good And with th'apostle Ioh 1 Epi. 1. 1 Iohn 1 If we say that we haue no sin we deceiue our selues and ther is no truth in vs. Beeing baptised in Christ Iesus we haue put Christ vpō vs Christ is our garment Gala 3. Gala 3 Our care shold be to continue in that purity that we haue in Christ and to kepe the garmēt of ours vnspotted I haue thought it good to take this occasion to writ thus much in the defence of right precisenes and purenes of life because I doo sée that our subtile enimie the deuill laboureth to bring into contempt that precisenes in obseruing of Gods commaundements that al christians shold striue to attaine vnto and that purenes of life that is most séemely for al christians to walke in And he hath preuailed so much already that to great a number amongst vs doo make little or no consience at all in the transgressing of any commādement of our good God Some there be in déede that are noted by the names of Precisians Puritans which may more rightly be called péeuish ones These we Protestants doo not lyke of but would as gladly be ridde of them as you would be of vs. And the number of them is not so great as this offerer would haue it seme to be neither are they furdered and fauored of so many as hee reporteth although their number be greater then we wold wish it to be It is perceiued that they doo professe and hold the true and right religion of Christ and would gladly that it were purged of all Roomish drosse and that the pure wheat that is in Gods threshing floore were clensed from all roomish chaffe but béeing caried away with faruent zeale they runne before them that should lead them and doo hinder the cause that they would gladly furder When God wil these shal by his good meanes be brought to consider better of the matter and you roomish Catholiques shal be confounded This offerer concludeth against him selfe and his fellows for not we but they are the sectaries heretiques that by moouing flitting and passing from euill to worse are now at the laste come euen ad profundum malorum to the very bottome of euil and to a plaine open apostacy and falling away from Christ and ioyning with antichrist Yea and it appereth that you are perswaded that béeing ioyned to that antichrist of Roome as to your spirituall head you néede not to passe either for God or Deuill heauen or hell for your Pope hath absolute power both in heauen on earth and in his owne prison purgatory to Now let the offerer and his fellowes marke what I shall say For as much as the heresies of the popish Catholiques haue béene from time to time so fickle moouing their end in falling away frō Christ so horrible in the sight of God let any roomish Catholique liuing reply directly plainely with out all cauill colour or fraude of words without all vnprofitable impertinent digressions not only to this but to all the answers that I haue made to the foresayd signes tokens and demaundes and then will I for companie and good fellowship leaue the true catholique church of Christ wherin is the plaine way of saluation beaten by all our forefathers the true Catholique protestants for the space of these 5530 and odde yeres euen from the time of the first man and now wander with the romane Catholiques in their vncertaine by pathes of Popish deuises through vnknowē deserts of popish opinions through rough woods brambles briers of popish religions to séeke in the ende we can not tell what The offerers exhortation And here to conclude and for my parte to minister vnto you some occasion in the relinquishing of these priuate churches and congregations of sectaries to returne to the vnity attonement of the commō knowen catholique Church of Christ where stability and constancy of faith religion is onely to be found I shall here lay before you the worthy example of the blessed martir Sebastian by him brought of a loafe of bread to Genserichus then king of the Vandalles a furious and a barbarous nation which breaking into Affricke they found there many valiant Captaines placed by the Emperour Theodosius the second for the defence sauegard of the country amōgst the rest was this Sebastiā by dignity an earle a couragious and valiant Captaine who with the rest yeelding to the force of Genserichus was as Victor de persecutione Vandalorum writeth for his great wisedome and valiantnes not so much beloued as feared of the king Genserichus who being an Arrian intended by collour of religion to work his death For Genserichus knowing Sebastian to be a seuere perfect christian man conuented him before the Arrian Bishops vnder the pretence that Amity and freendship might be the surer and continue the longer betwixt them Genserichus mooued him to become an Arrian to professe the same fayth and religion as he and his people were of For answer thys holy martyr Sebastian requested Genserichus the king to command a fine wheaten loafe to be brought vnto him And taking it in his hand And here to omit many of his words notable sayings he requested the King Genserichus to commaund the loafe of bread to be broken in peeces to be ground brought to floure and boulted a fresh to be seasoned with water salt and baked againe if then it should in the ende prooue better bread then it was before he would not faile to accomplish the king Genserichus his wil and pleasure but if it were not possible by breaking the loafe baking it againe to better it but to make