hath cast away Gods holie â— worshipping images and idols and goâ—horing from God after her owne inâ—ns hath rebelled against the words â— Lord and despised the counsell of the â— high Therefore came the iust iudgeâ— of God vppon her as it did vppon the â—sh church of old Where the Lord saith your iniquities are ye solde and for â—r transgressions is your mother forsaken Againe Pleade with your â—ther pleade with her for shee is not wife neither am I her husband buâ— her take away her fornications c. I make her like a wildernesse and â— her for thirst and I wil haue no pitieâ— on her children for they are childreâ— fornication Loe this is the iudgemeâ— that Romish harlot which hath her dâ—ling in that great citie which ruleth â— the Kings of the earth who hath â— the kings of the earth drunken with cuppe of her fornication who is the â—rie mother of whoredome and of all the hominations of the earth which is druâ— with the bloud of the Saintes and with bloud of the martyrs of Christ who with tenne kings doeth fight against the Laâ— But the Lambe shall ouercome them â— they that be on his side the chosen â— faithful for he is the king of kings and Lord of lords To him be all honour and glorie for euer â— An answeare vnto the â–ª Papist which made this Offer or Challenge Papist CHrist did commit at his departing hence the testimonie of that trueth whiche he 〈◊〉 for the câ—â—uersion of all nations to the beliefe in him â—â—trâ—â— church of God which then stoode â—â—pally and almost onely in the persoâ—â— of â— Apostles and of a fewe moe that by their â—ching and others afterwarde of their â—ng the Christian religion might be planâ—â— all nations coastes and corners of the â—â— Wherefore I aske the Protestant â—t Church that was which conuerted all â—sâ— countries that nowe be Christen to the â—th of Christe and let him shewe me that â—er his Churche conuerted anie people or â—nde in the earth from Idolatrie or Gentiâ—â— or Iudaisme to the true religion of Christ or that this his faith was taught to anie nations in steede of true Christianitie or anie other Churche but the knowne Catholike Church to haue done this And I recant Answeare TRue it is that Christ did commit the preaching of the Gospell vnto the Apostles and vnto a few moe and gaue them this commaundemeÌ„t That they should go vnto all the world and preach the same Gospel vnto al nations who very painfully executed their office conuerted manie of sundrie countries to the truth Neuerthelesse suche was the rage of the wicked Emperoures Tyrantes of that time that the doctrine of the Gospel was not vniuersally receiued nor generally taught as it appeareth at large by the historie of the Acts of the Apostles as by the assembling of the Apostles in corners by their preaching in the night season in priuat houses Yet we confes that the voice of the Apostles was sounded abroad to al the world so that as Tertullian saith the Parthians the Medians the Elamites the people of Mesopotamia of Armenia c and many other nations and prouinces known vnknowen haue receiued the Gospel of Christ Saint Paule tooke comfort and reioyced in his imprisoment for that there were some euen in Neros court that beganne to geue eare to the Gospell Of the same matter writeth Eusebius that the court of Valerian the Emperour was now become the church of god so he saieth because that some of his familie beleued the truth albeit the Emperour himself was a tyrant Euen in that sense it might haue bene truelie saide that the churche of God was in king Achab his house when wicked Iezabel his wife did most of all persecute Goddes children and when Elias complained that he onelie was left aliue seeing that Obadiah gouernour of Achabs house feared God and fed an hundred Prophetes with the meate whiche came from Iezabels table But for breâ—ities sake I will answeare to youre queâ—ion which seemeth to consist on these two â—ointes First What Church it was which â—onuerted all countries that nowe be Chriâ—ten to the faith of Christe Secondarilie whether the religion or faith of the Protestantes was euer taught to anie nations in steede of true Christianitie Whosoeuer shall diligently peruse the ecclesiasticall histories or the bookes of the auncient Fathers of the churche they shall easily perceaue with what difficultie Christianitie was embraced sith that the name of Christ was so odious to the Emperour of Rome whose Empire was exceeding large thaâ— whosoeuer professed himselfe to be a Christian was tormented moste cruelly vnto death So that it cannot bee proued that manie nations or countries were wholly christened or receiued the gospel of Christ but in secrete manner vntill the time of Constantine the great which was three hundred yeares after Christ or thereabout For before that time whosoeuer sincerelie preached the Gospell hee was forthwith accused of sedicion of preaching heresie and of new strange doctrine They were charged commonly by the Heathen to bee adulterers against kinde Manquellers Killers of children Churchrobbers most wicked most hurtful the enimies of mankinde guiltie of all kinde of wickednesse Enimies against the Goddes against the Emperoures against the lawes against good order against nature it selfe whatsoeuer mischiefe happened the Ethnikes 〈◊〉 impute it alwayes to the Christians The citie of Athens which had beene the â—â—â—taine of all knowledge was become the sinke of most horrible idolatrie Where Pâ—ule preaching Christ the Philosophers â—â—â—e Epicures and Stoikes resisted him 〈◊〉 saide what will this babler say â–ª Others said he semeth to be a setter forth of strange Gods Others saide may we nâ—t know what this new doctrine wherâ—â— thou spekest is in such rage the Ethniks and Infidels continued against the Christians vntill God of his mercie raised vp that worthie Emperour Constantine who aduaunced mightely the Gospell suppresâ—â—â— the enimies thereof and gaue the truth free passage throughout his dominion and â—mpire In his time all nations were called from Idolatrie Gentilitie and Iudaisme so continued manie hundred yeares vntill the Diuel was let loose and superstiâ—on inuaded the churche so that albeit â—e name of Christianitie remained afterâ—arde vnder the Popes gouernement yet Christes religion was abolished and abanâ—oned It is faith in Iesus Christe and â—he profession of true religion whiche maketh a Christian and not the outward name and therefore suche as were falle away from Christ his Gospell vnto the inuentions of man or suche as were coÌ„uerte onelie in name not being instructed in trâ— doctrine were no more Christians then the shadowe of a man is a man orâ— picture the thing which it doth represenâ— so that it was Nomen sinere Christian iâ— name and not in deede By the Turke aâ— so both the name and profession of a Christian was altogether vanquished Thuâ— much for
be more more discouered as in this answere to your questions wil appeare God grauÌ„t you eies to see it hearts to repent Where you demand quest 1. what church it was that coÌ„uerted the churches nations to the faith you seeme to aunswere your owne obiection for you say that that Church was Christes Apostles and a fewe mo who by their preachings and others planted Christian religion c. In the which saying you do wel agree with the Apostle Paule who saith to the Colossians That euen in his time the Gospel was fruitfull in all the worlde Nowe you know that your gorgious synagogue of Rome had not then receiued this gospel but did persecute it many yeres after So then it was the poore perseâ—â—â—ed church that brought the Gospel into Antioch into Rome or whersoeuer it was yet truelie planted vppon the earth Againe where you demaund quest â— what church hath had the custodie of the Scriptures and most safelie hath preserued them The Iewes would most easilie answere the papistes that it is their church For the Iewes haue kept them so warilie so manie aâ— were before Christes coÌ„ming that they durst not alter anie letter or title But if there seemed some cause of alteration by the order of the graÌ„mer rules as somtimes there did both in the auncient writings old printes there was acipher set downe to cause men to consider it â–ª but no man amoÌ„gst them was so bold as to aâ—â—er anie one iotte Such was Gods great prouidence towards vs that the vâ—â—â— â—mies of Christian religion should bee the â—epers preseruers of those bookes wherâ—on our christian religion is grounded so â—at we should always be able by diuine proâ—dence to confute both the Iewes and the â—istes by the same bookes which by diuine â—er haue bin preserued The Iewes more â—ely and religiously the papists through â—rupting some places for their purpose yet â—er permitted so far to corrupt the scripâ—es but that all their errours may easily be â—futed by anie of those textes that they reâ—ed Where you demaund quest 3. why beâ—e ye our church telling you this to bee â—ds word and booke and wil not credit her â—uouching it to be the true and vndoubted â—se of Gods booke The Iewe might aske â—â— and vs also this question but wee that â—ue heard Christ him selfe speake in his â—ting them in our heartes by his holy Spiâ— do answere both Iewes and papists as the â—maritanes did the woman that brought â—em the strst tidings of Christ Nowe wee â—eleeue say they not because of thy sayâ—ngs for we haue heard him our selues â—nd know that this in deed is the Christ â—nd Sauiour of the world wee beleeue â—im because of his owne word This is true faith onely to depend vpon the word of God and neither vpon the interpretation of the Iewe or Papist or any mans else further then he can manifest his sense by some manifest place of the selfe same word The 4 5. quest may easilie be aunswered by that which is alreadie written Againe where you demaund tauntinglie O Papistes where our principal pastour doth sitt in iudgement quest 6. we aunswere that he alwayes hath don so he now sitteth in the heauens doth pronounce sentence against that Antichrist of yours who doeth sit as God in the temple of God vpon earth and he will shortlie come to take a straight accompte of all inferiour pastours who are fellow elders and fellow pastours as Peter affirmeth And vppon the earth he hath made some Prophets some Apostles some Euangelistes some Pastours some Doctours or Teachers as Paule saith but no Popes no principall Pastours to put him selfe forth of that high office The which office if it had bene so necessarie vpon earth as your papistes do make it neither would Christ him selfe neither all his Apostles vtterlie haue forgotten it As for the place that you continuallie demaunde for where shall wee seeke this â—here shall we finde that Your Question â—o small purpose for our maister Christ â—e warneth that in these latter dayes â—ere should be such as should say Loe here â— Christ loe there is Christ as it were bin 〈◊〉 Christ and the grace of his spirituall â—er to a certaine place but he saith beâ—e them not The church the vineyarde of the Lorde and the true religion is neuer 〈◊〉 to place but as the people of anie place â—e growne in open contempt the Lorde 〈◊〉 taken away the Vineard of his church 〈◊〉 the euil husbandmen and giuen it to an other people that would yeelde better â—â—â—es So was the place remoued from Ierâ—â—lem which had so manie promises to â—â—â—oche to Ephesus to the Galatians Coloâ—â—ans Thessalonians and to sundrie places â—â—he earth besides wheresoeuer there 〈◊〉 fewe or manie gathered in the name of Christ Christ was among them Christ â— their principall pastour whose voyce â—e they would heare and thereby were â—wne to his sheepe So became they his â—rch and people though it were but soule one housholde or familie So became they his sheepe and he their Pastour and principall shepheard and Archpastour though in all congregations he had hâ— vndershepheard alwayes who fed the sheepâ— and fought for the lambs against the woluâ— And both these churches and pastours weâ— many times knowne to the true children â— the church when they were vnknowen â— the wicked world For the children of Goâ— who are called the children of wisedome dâ— alwayes take hold of the heauenlie wisdomâ— and haue that marke to knowe one anotheâ— and rest vpon Gods word without any respeâ— of person or place or anie earthlie thing â— the families of Noah Abraham Lot Isâ—ac Iacob c. hauing Gods woord to waâ—rant them cared not for al the world besideâ— whereas all they that depende vpon the ouâ—ward showe of place or persons haue falâ— continually from God and so from the trâ— church as both before Christ at Christs â—ming and since Christs comming it is manâ—fest in the Iewes in the Samaritans in tâ— Turkes and papistes in Agar and Ismael â— all those that chalenge authoritie by the auncientie and eldership without Gods prâ—mise Now we contrariwise depending onâ— vpon Gods word are the children of promâ— â— the manner of Isaac But as then hee â— was borne after the fleshe persecuted â—hat was borne after the spirit euen so â—ow Neuertheles what saith the scripâ— Cast out the bond woman and her â—e Our mother church Sara whiche â—th onely the worde of promise seemeth â— barren desolate and forsaken in the â— but God will not forget his promise â—efore we wil neither aske him of the â—â—or of the time nor of the meanes how â—ll performe it but knowing that hee â— begotten his church by his worde wee â— also that thereby he will nourishe it â—ultiplie it and preserue it for euer â—hall the world rage against it And â— where his worde soundeth wee must â—fâ—r his church And because the Roâ—ynagogue
we faithfully râ—ceiuing the visible and externall signes according to Christ his institution in remembraunce of his death and passion spirituaâ—ly doe feed vpon the body of Christ aâ—â— receiue the fruites of his death euen remission of our sinnes Other sacramentes we haue no warrant for in the worde of god These sacramentes were onely vsed by Christ and his Apostles and by all their true successours The sacramentes in the olde Testament vnto which anie promise was annexed were these two onely that is circumcision and the Passouer which doe rightly and aptly represent 〈◊〉 two sacramentes set forth in the newe â—â—â—ament as Baptisme and the Lordes â—â—â—er which haue bene vsed alwaies â—â—â—e true Church euer since Christ and â—â—â—ued of the auncient Fathers as the onely knowne sacramentes appoynted by â—â—â—rist So Augustine affirmeth That 〈◊〉 Lord the Apostles deliuered vnto â—â—â—ewe sacraments in steede of manie 〈◊〉 the same to be most easie in doing â—â—â—st reuerend in vnderstandinge and in â—â—â—eruation most pure to wit the sacrameÌ„ts of Baptisme the celebratioÌ„ of thâ— sacrament of the body and blood of ouâ— Lorde Likewise another sayth The sacramentes of Christ in the catholikâ— Church are Baptisme and the bodâ— and bloude of our Lorde Which sacramentes also and all the principle poynte of our true religion Constantine the Christian and godly Emperour and alâ— his noble successours mightely defended and set forth the same The same Constantine was christened not by the Pope buâ— by Eusebius Bishop of Nicomedia noâ— in a corner but in the presence of many other not popishe but Christian Bishopes Hee ouercame Licinium his sisters husbande who persecuted the Christians The same Constantine summoned a councell at Nice against that blasphemous heritike Arrius And as the historie saith the Emperour before named wrote vnto all the rulers of the Churches that they shoulde be at Nice by a day to the Bishop of the Apostolicke sea to Macarius Bishope of Hierusalem and to Iulius the bishope of Rome In that flourishing time liued sundry godly writers whose bookes nowe extant doe shewe that they embracced the same faith and religion which we at this day do professe touching the Sacramentes iustification by faith onely inuocation to God alone saluation onely by Christ and all other chiefe poyntes of doctrine whose workes if your Romish Church had kept inuiolable and had not corrupted as you did in like manner with the Canonicall books of the Bible you might haue learned a difference betwixt trueth and errour And if you would yet hearken to the doctrine which they doe deliuer they will teach you that your Romish church is a cage of vncleane birdes and that your religion is mingled with all heresies though you charge others with the same fault and that you haue no true discipline but rather crueltie no principall pastor sauing Antichrist no officers but Blood-suckers and no Churche in deede but the Sinagogue of Sathan that cruell mother whiche will needes haue the Childe to be cutte in peeces which spareth no Sexe or kinde no Infant though it bee in the mothers belly no hoare heade nor aged person finally your church hath no truth but falshood and iâ— wholly imbamed with the heresies of aâ— ages You take parte with the Iewes anâ— Pagans you care not with whome yoâ— shake handes so it be not with Christ or his holy Gospell vnto which you doo beare â— deadly hate And yet you stand vpon youâ— reputation and would haue men to beleeuâ— you whatsoeuer you speake Whereas you call our Church A contemptible vnknowne close and secret company at thiâ— day the Lord be thanked the greater partâ— of Europe besides the countries I spakâ— of before doo ioyne together with vs iâ— one truth of doctrine I would haue yoâ— to prooue by the worde of God for youâ— wordes bee no warrant to auenturâ— our soules vppon your Romish Church to bee the auncient and true Catholike Church and to professe the same faith and doctrine truely which Christ his Apostles left behinde them and that which was in the time of those godly Emperours of Rome and a long tyme after or that Christ did promise to leaue such a Church as should haue onâ— generall and chiefe Pastor to sit in iudgement to punish offendors and to call a generall councell to try the truth or else we cannot ioyne with you against God and against his sonne Christ For we acknowledge no other principall Pastor but Christ Iesus whom the heauens must conteine vntill the time that all thinges be restored which God hath spokeÌ„ by the mouth of al his holy prophets since the world began who neuerthelesse is euer present with his Church Papist 7 AGaine I require of the Protestant to declare by good histories or by reasonable likelyhod when the true church as they account theirs to be decaied or in what yeare the religion of the Papistes came in and preuailed Whether all their true Church was so soundly sleeping that none would preach against it euen at the tyâ—e when it first entred Whether all nations sodeinly and in one yeare were mooued vnto the doctrine of the Papistes no one man of all their true â—hurch either preaching teaching wriâ—â—â—g nor attempting any thing against it â— making mention of it Whether all â—â—â—kes of seruice were altered Whether 〈◊〉 a moment the masse was sayed in steede of their Apostolike communion Whether sodenly men began to pray for soules departed sodenly required the helpe of Saintes in heauen sodeinly the tongue of common praier was altered Tell me in what yeare of our Lorde vnder what Emperour vnder what Pope vppon what occasion this merueilous mutation was made by whome all these thinges were wrought who preached against it what storie maketh mention of it who of al your Pastoures preached against it Was Goddes Churche so voyde of the spirite of truth and strength that euen then when it most flourished it had none that durste open his mouth agaynst suche corruption of religion at the firste entering in of it and when it mighte soone haue beene repressed If it coulde not haue bene stayde tell me in what yeare of our Lorde this mutation was made and who of the true Preachers withstode our doctrine and yf wee note you not by the names euerye one of your captaines and the seuerall errours whiche they taught and the time and yeare when they rose against the receiued truth and the councels wherein they were orderly condemned If I say this canne bee doone on your side towards vs and wee do it not for improofe of your Church and religion I recante And for that purpose because the gouernement of the Bishoppes of Rome is moste misliked of them And yet moste notoriously knowne by euery Historie let them note the Pope that first brake of the course of his forefathers beliefe and Regiment in anie Articles of faith or necessarie Christian vsage And I recant Answeare 7. MY meaning is not to
sense and â—ere not able to expound and interpret his â—wn meaning Saint Paule saith That we must to not heare an Angel if he bring aâ—ie thing contrarie to the Gospell Augustine expounding these woordes saith Whether it be of Christ or of his church or of anie thing else whatsoeuer pertaining either to our life or to our faith I wil not onely say if I my self but if an Angel from heauen shal teach vs otherwise then we haue receiued in the bookes of the Lawe and the Gospel holde him accursed An other godly father saith As what Gold soeuer is without the Temple is not sanctified so euery sense and interpretation which is without the holy scripture although vnto some it seeme woonderfull yet it is not holy because it is not conteined in the sense of the Scripture Call to remembraunce I praye you how vntruely and cleane contrarie to the true meaning of the holy Ghost your Church hath interpreted the Scriptures As vpon these woordes Fiet vnum ouile et vnus Pastor your Church giueth this exposition to these woordes There shal be one folde and one shepheard we may not vnderstand it of Christ but of some other minister that ruleth in his roome One saide vnto Pope Leo in the CouÌ„cel holden at Lateran Behold the Lyon of the tribe of Iuda is come the roote of Dauid c. O most blessed Leo wee haue wayted for thee to be our Sauiour So it is likewise sayde The Pope beeing the light is come into the worlde and men haue loued the darkenesse more then light euery man that dooth euell hateth the light that is to say the Pope and commeth not to the light These woordes are to be vnderstoode of our sauiour Christ who in deede is the Lyon of the tribe of Iuda and commeth of the roote of Dauid who is the lighte that commeth into the world and see how blasphemouslie your Church doth wrest these woordes and applieth them vnto the Pope Againe Pope Sextus affirmeth That hee can neuer be forgiuen whosoeuer he be which accuseth the Pope And thus he reasoneth He that sinneth against the holy Ghost that is to say Against the Pope shall neuer be forgiuen neither in this world nor in the world to come These woordes of the Scripture are thus to bee taken That they shall neuer haue forgiuenes at Gods hands which sinne against the holy Ghost And the Pope wil haue them to be meant of him I coulde rehearse infinite places to this same effecte and purpose But let the indifferent reader iudge by these fewe places howe vntruely the church of Rome dooth interpret the holy scriptures But let them beware betimes of the heauy iudgmeÌ„ts of god Wo be vnto theÌ„ that cal good euel euel good darkenes light light darknes sower sweete and sweete sower What is this but to diminish the authoritie of the heauenly woorde of God God dooth sharpely threaten That if anie man shal adde vnto these thinges GOD shall adde vnto him those plagues that are writteÌ„ in this booke if anie man shal diminish of the wordes of the booke of this prophesie God shall take away his parte out of the booke of life out of the holy citie and from those things which are written in this boke God grauÌ„t you true repentaÌ„ce that you may imbrace Christ his worde and escape these threatnings of God. Papist 17 MOreouer let anie man prooue vnto me that the true only church of god may at anie time be voyd of a spirit of falsly interpret any senteÌ„ce of holy scripture or induce any errours among the people or approoue any vnprofitable or hurtful vsage amongst Christians or that she suffreth any daÌ„nable abuse in her religion without open reprehension thereof prooue any of these proofes And I recant Answeare 17 I Haue prooued before at large that the true Church of God is neuer without the comfort of gods spirit which spirit doeth not visibly and openly in anie forme or substance reueale and shewe him selfe but inwardly ingraffe in the hartes of the elect whether they be manie or fewe the doctrine of the Gospell doth increase true knoweledge in them doth worke true sanctificatioÌ„ holinesse and doth guide leade them in al good actions I haue proued also that gods true church doth not corrupt and falsly interpret the holy scriptures as your Church of Rome doth in wresting and wringing the sence of the scriptures in comparing it to A nose of waxe a shipmans hose or in calling it A dead and dumbe letter But the true sheepe doth gladly here the voice of the shephearde do acknowledge all thinges to be contained in the scripture necessary for mans saluation doe confesse no hardnesse or difficulty to be in the worde of God But that the holie Ghost doth sufficiently expounde himselfe and one place expresse another The true Church doth not teach the people anie errours anie vnwritten verities any inuentions of her owne braine or anie thing touching doctrine or life which shee findeth not written in the canonicall scriptures doth not approue anie vnprofitable vsages anie fond customes or suffer anie damnable abuses in religion without open reprehension dooth finde faulte and doth openlie inueigh against all thinges which be mixt with Gods true worshippe and seruice by the deuise of anie man whatsoeuer and will alowe nothing to be vsed amongst gods people but onely that which is warranted by the worde of god In this your treatise albeit you speake generallie yet you haue a special meaning But truly euen in that thing wherewith you charge vs you bee most giltie your selfe For if those be worthily called Abuses in religion which be matters of faith and vsed in the Church contrarie to the expresse worde of God so that Christ may be vmpeere lett al indifferent persons iudge whether your Church of Rome or we which professe the Gospell doe more abuse true religion and induce erours amongest the people We say that wee must pray only vnto God in the name of Christ and vnto none other your Church of Rome saith That wee must pray vnto the saints departed and vse them as meanes for vs vnto God. Neuerthelesse God saith Call vpon mee in the day of trouble I wil heare thee Dauid The Prophet saith When I was in trouble I called vpon the Lord and he heard me And againe he saith I will confesse my sinnes vnto the Lorde and so hee forgaue me the wickednesse of my sinne Christ saith Whatsoeuer you aske my Father in my name hee will giue it you Shewe me now by what aucthoritie of scripture you can disprooue this and prooue your inuocation of Saintes we say That it is god onely which forgiueth sinnes that for Christes sake whose blood doth purge vs froÌ„ al sinne You say that the Pope can forgiue sinne and giue pardon for many hundred yea thousand yeares and that he can doo
auouched truely and faithfully the true sense of the Scripture and doo merueile verie much why wee will not giue credit vnto you I will giue you a taste of a fewe places which your Church hath fouly wrythed Where the Apostles yet so rude that they thought with outward weapons to withstand the enemies doo offer vnto Christ two swoordes Pope Boniface doth expound these words saying behold two swords that is to say the Pope hath the power both of the spiritual sword of the teÌ„poral So they apply corruptly the psalmist thou hast made al things subiect vnto him that is to say to the Pope the catel of the field that is to say men liuing in the earth the fishes of the sea that is to say soules in purgatory the birdes of heaueÌ„ that is to say the soules of the blessed in heaueÌ„ Pope Alexander treading most cruelly vppon the Emperour Frederiks neck abuseth this part of the Psalme Thou shalt walke vppon the Aspe and Basilisk the young Lyon and the Dragon shalt thou treade vnder thy feete What need many testimonies seeing that your church hath wrested the whole booke of the Psames which concerne God the father and his sonne Christ to magnifie the Virgin Mary withall that whereas shee acknowledgeth Christ to be her Sauiour and herselfe to be the handmaide of the Lorde you go about to make her a Goddesse and say that she is fidelissima Dei socia a felow mate with God. As also another of your Cardinals calleth her DominaÌ„ DeaÌ„ nostraÌ„ our Lady and Goddesse Where you say that your Church gaue vs knowledge â—f the holy Byble it is most vntrue for that you hidd the same in an vnknowne tongue and woulde not suffer the vnlearned to haue the vse thereof And albeit you very rashely impute heresie vnto Luther truely all the heresies which euer he maintained he sucked forth out of the nurcerie of your Church and treasury of your Pope Iâ— you knowe anie other in his writings sauing that he defended with you the real presence of Christs body in the Sacrament I would haue you to name it But it is youâ— accustomed wont to call vs heretikes although you be not able to prooue that wâ— defend any one heresie Neuerthelesse wâ— must be content to beare your woordes foâ— so the olde Prophets were charged with â—â—dition and heresie and so Tertullus charged Paule the Apostle beginning his oration with flatterie and ending the samâ— with a manifest vntruth We haue saitâ— he found this man a pestilent fellowe â— mouer of sedition among all the Iewes throughout the worlde and a chiefe maintainer of the sect or heresie of the Nazarets for so the wicked tearmed the true Christian religion as you doe and to answere you fully we say with the Apostle That after the way which you cal heresie so woorship we the liuing God and his sonne Christ beleeuing all thinges which be written in the Lawe the Prophets and the Gospell Papist AGaine what Church is that which hath exercised by Christes appointment discipline vpon offenders in all degrees and for that purpose hath continually executed lawes and canons ecclesiasticall with excommunication degradation suspension and suche like Proue me this geare to haue proceeded from Protestantes or from anie other Churche then from the Catholike and Irecant Answeare Concerning discipline First you alledge excoÌ„munication the true vse whereof you neuer had in your Church of Rome sichens it firste declined from the auncient Church of Rome Now as a bloudie mother you send out the thunderboltes of excoÌ„munication against all those which reiect your superstitious traditions euen like your grandfathers the Pharisies who in the time of our sauiour Christ did excoÌ„municate all those which did truely conâ—â—â—se Christ and yet thought they pleased â—â—d highly Iohn truely did prophesie of 〈◊〉 Church that she should excoÌ„muniâ—â—â—e and kill all suche as woulde not worship the image of the beast that is â—â—â—eiue the ordinaunces and decrees of the sea of Rome Excommunication wâ— not vsed in the primitiue Church but â— graue offences as appeareth by the Apâ—stle Paule who did excommunicate one â— incest and Himeneus and Alexander â— making shipwracke of the faith of Chriâ— They did not in the primitiue Church â— communicate without the consent of tâ— clergie people which discipline decaâ—ing in Saint Ambrose his time at thâ— least in the church where he was he lamâ—teth in these wordes The olde congregation saith he and the Church following had Seniors without whose counsell nothing was done but I knowe noâ— by what negligence it did grow out oâ— vse vnlesse it were either by the sloth fulnes or rather the pride of the pastors whilest they onely would seeme to haue the preheminence Saint Cyprian disputing this matter at large speaketh after this maner Euer since I was Bishop I determined to doe nothing without theâ— councell of the cleargie and consent of the people But you doe vse this kinde of discipline or rather abuse it priuatly in euery light monie matter but chiefâ—ie against suche as will not embrace your Romishe traditions Iohannes Scotus alias Duns one of your Capitaines who liued about the yeere of our Lorde 1336. complaineth of the abuse of your excommunication and of the Papes keyes sayinâ—â— That excommunication before his time was not vsed but vppon greate and iuste causes and therefore feared but nowe saith he it is broched and published for euerie trifle and therefore groweth in contempt Furthermore you doe neither excommunicate degrade or suspende except it be a verie great chaunce for anie other cause then is aforesaide You haue rules to dispense with your gelding Priestes Si non caste tameÌ„ caute If that thou canst not liue chaste yet play the whoremonger cunningly You degrade some and when you haue taken your Popish robes from them you turne their bodies to ashes by cruell fier But to knitte vp all in fewe wordes our Sauiour Christe did not promise to â—â—ue behinde him a Church which should â—â—ecute suche ecclesiasticall discipline as â—â—u haue prescribed or shoulde alwayes â—â—twardly in great pompe appeare to the â—ewe of the whole world But he calleth â—â—s Churche a little flocke shewing them before hand that in the world They shouâ— weepe and lament and haue tribulatâ—on that the world shoulde reioyce bâ— they shoulde be sadde and that as all thâ— wicked persecuted him the Lord so shouâ— they persecute them his seruauntes dâ— proue this and I recant Papist AND because Christ as Saint Pauâ— saith hath established in his Chuâ—che some Apostles some Preachers some teachers and Doctoures eueâ— till his comming againe I aske the Protestant what Church that is which is ablâ— to shew and proue the continuance and vsâ— of those functions euer since Christ his time by plaine accompt of orderly succession and is able to name by the hystories of all ages the notable persons of al the
foresaide states in their gouernement and ministerie And if he can proue vnto me that their Churche hath neuer lacked the same appointed officers or that anie other Churche or congregation besides oures hath alwayes kept that charge and I recant Answeare TRuth it is that Christ gaue some to be Apostles some Prophetes some Euangelistes some Pastoures and teachers but where doe you reade that our Sauiour Christe euer promised all these functions to continue successiuely to the worldes end Shew vnto me anie which was called apostle or prophet after Christ his Apostles Saint Paule the blessed Apostle maketh mentioÌ„ of false Apostles which alwaies withstood the doctrine of the Gospell maintained the ceremonies of the Lawe and the inuentions of their owne braine and set them selues opposite vnto the true Apostles and if you will claime your succession from them I will easily agree vnto you There hath bene Preachers and teachers at all times saue onely when they haue bene kept vnder by your tyrannie which haue preached Gods truth and reproued your grosse Idolatrie whom your Church hath alwaies persecuted vnto death and euen vntill this time there hath bene and are Christians in Graecia and Asia which haue euerâ—â—â—e and doe yet vtterly detest the Pope the head of your Church with all your deâ—â—â—s and traditions But shewe mee in one place I pray you of the Scripture where euer Christ promised anie such succession to continue in all ages Yâ— were so that the truth of Gods worde â— the functions in Gods Church should â—ceed alwaies by ordinary succession tâ— you had a good foundation to builde yâ— succession vpon Then Christ our Sauiâ— by right should not haue controuled â— Scribes and Pharesies which satâ— Moses chaire which bragged of succeâ—on as well as you doe saying We are the seed of AbrahaÌ„ we are the disciplâ— of Moses vnto vs God hath made â— promisses as for Christ we knowe nâ— from whence he came And therefâ— they asked Christ By what power he dâ— such thinges who gaue him that auâ—thoritie and so they might very well haâ— said in respect of their outward successioâ— For so Annas and Caiphas were Bysâ—ops aswell as Aaron But that warniâ— and admonicion which Saint Paule gaâ— vnto the congregation of Ephesus toucâ—ing succession might satisfie you I know this saith he that after my departingeâ— there shal greuous Woolues enter in amoung you not sparing the flocke moreouer of your owne selues shall mâ— arise speaking peruerse thinges And againe he saith That true faith cometh not by succession but by hearing not the Bishoppe of Rome but the worde God. Yf Christ had appoynted anie such succession would he haue forewarned vs that desolation of abhomination should sit â—â—â—he holy place and that Antichrist should â—â—â—rude him selfe into the roome of Christ If you looke well about you you haue no cause to glory in succession for that by your writers sufficient is spoken to discredit your succession for one saith That many Popes haue fallen into heresies that Hildebrand in whose time defection froÌ„ the faith tooke place was charged by a generall councell to be an adulterer a Churchrobber a periured person a maâ—queller a sorcerer and an apostata Another calleth the Popes monsters and 〈◊〉 shapen creatures If your heade and chiefe of your Church be such what shall we iudge of the rest I wil take for proofe of your succession euen the confessioÌ„ of Pope â—drian the fourth Succedimus non Peâ—â—â—o in pascendo sed Romulo in parriciâ—â—â—o We succeede saith he not Peter in â—â—â—eding but Romulus in killing To be â—â—â—t what auaileth the succession of your Church vnlesse you coulde prooue that she hath alwayes mainteined the doctrine of Christ For Saint Augustine saith Thaâ— many doo giue the outward marke of a Byshop to wolues and be wolues them selues That the truth of Gods woord maâ— be the touchstone of lawfull succession giuâ— eare to the godly councell of a learned father It becommeth vs saith he to obeâ— those Priestes in the Church which hauâ— their succession from the Apostles anâ— together with the succession of their Bishoprikes according to the good wil oâ— God the father haue receiued the vndoubted gift of the truth An other being pressed with the like succession saith If any of my predecessors haue not obserued and kept the same that our Lorâ— hath taught vs both by his example anâ— also by his commaundement his simplicitie may be pardoned but we if we doâ— the like can hope for no pardon beinâ— now admonished and instructed of ouâ— Lord. And comparing all other Churcheâ— with the primatiue â—hurch the same fathâ— saith If the pipes of the conduit whicâ— before ran with abundance happen â— faile do we not vse to search to the heaâ— The Pristes of God keeping Gods commaundementes must doo the same that if the truth haue fainted or failed in any point we returne to the original of our Lord and to the tradition of the Gospel and of the Apostles that thence wee may take the discretion of our dooings from whence the order it selfe and originall first began Thus muche concerning the succession of your Church hauing no warrant by Gods woorde Papist 6. AND for the necessarie vse and execution of the foresaide offices they must further bee asked what sacraments the ProtestaÌ„ts ministred for the space of a M. yeares together in which they confesse their congregation to haue beene neare or wholly hidde what correction or discipline they kept for offendors to whom they did preache their heresies Where did 〈◊〉 principall pastor sitte in iudgement â—â—â—re did they gather as in a councell â—â—â—ye the trueth in doubtfull matters Hâ—â—e might Christian men iustelie ofâ—â—â—d with some of their Bretheren haue sought out your officers or congregation to make complaint of him or how if it lacked any man to haue beene baptized of them or to haue receiued the communion of them or haue ioyned them selues in faith and religion vnto them How might I say that coâ—temptible and vnknowne companie haâ— beene found out in this case If therefoâ— you can shewe me that euer anie man sougâ— iustice or knowledge of truth sacramentâ— faith or anie helpe of saluation at the Proâ—stants secret and close Church or anie othâ— where else but of Gods knowne Catholâ— Church And I recant Aunsweare 6. TOuching Sacramentes we finâ— two appoynted expresly by the worâ— of God namely Baptisme and the Lorâ— Supper The one doeth signifie our neâ— birth and regeneration that as by watâ— the filthe of the body is washed cleane through faith in the bloud of Christ oâ— soules are clensed from all sinne and wâ— are incorporat and ingraffed into the bâ— of Christ and made members of his boâ— of which he is the onely head the other doâ— put vs in remembraunce that Christ Iâ—sus is our spiritual foode and sustenaunâ— that he is the celestial Manna which came downe from Heauen and
aduocate with the Father â—esus Christ the righteous and he is the propiciation for our sinnes and not for â—urs onely but for the sinnes of the whole world By the which words we â— taught that Christ our sauiour is not onâ— the mediatour of our redemption but also â— our intercession doth plead our cause wâ— god Why would you haue vs to take Chrâ— his office froÌ„ him as you do by inuocatiâ— praying to saints in making theÌ„ meanâ— for vs seeing that the Saintes departâ— know not our estate vnderstande not oâ— infirmities as Esaie the prophet doth wâ—nesse saying Though Abraham be ignorant of vs Israel know vs not yet thoâ— O Lord art our Father our redemeâ— thy name is for euer Wherevppoâ— S. Augustine giueth this note Thoâ— seest here saith he that neither Abrahâ— nor Israel knewe after their death whâ— the estate was of their posteritie And iâ— the same chapter he saith I am certainely perswaded that the dead knowâ— no more what we do here in earth theâ— we being in earth knowe what they doâ— in heauen Touching seruice in an vnknowne speech howe can it stande with the Apostles doctrine If the Trumpet saith Saint Paule geue an vncertaine sounde who shall prepare himselfe to battaile Also in the same Chapter Let â— thinges bee done in the congregatiâ— to edifying howe are the people â—lified whiche vnderstande not what is â—oken But to make the matter more â—aine the Apostle saith further I had raâ—er in the Church to speake fiue words â—th my vnderstanding that I mighte â—so instruct others then ten thousande â—ordes in a straunge tongue You aske â—so who preached against the Churche â— Rome for the space of a M. yeares â—uly euen from time to time God had his â—hurche which reproued your grosse idoâ—tries And for a taste I will name you a â—we The Monkes â–ª of Chester which â—ere not idle bellied Monkes but payneâ—ll Preachers and lyued not vppon the â—eate of other mens browes but by their â—ne handy labour whom your Monkish â—ugustine sent into Englande by Pope â—regorie did finde meanes to murder â—ost cruelly by incensing the king to make â—arre against them Sabellicus saith in the â—are of our Lord 1111. the Bishop of Fluâ—ce beganne to teache preach Antiâ—rist then to be born to be manifest â—rnulphus a godly Precher inueying aâ—ainst the abominatioÌ„s of your Church was priuily hanged in Rome by youâ— cleargie men This is no tale but recoâ—ded by your owne histories A councâ— was holden in king Steuens time vndâ— Theobaldus Archebyshoppe of Caunteâ— burie charging the Byshoppes that thâ— people shoulde learne the Lordes prayeâ— and the Creede in Englishe Gherarduâ— and Dulcinus both being preachers affiâ—med the Pope to be Antichrist and Româ— to be Babylon In the same yeare king Henrie the seconde made Lawes at Claredowne in Normandie abolishing thâ— Popes authoritie taking away appellations and Peter pence In the citie of Tolouse in the yeare of our Lorde 1178. a great number both men and women professoures of the true religion were by the Popes commissioners coÌ„demned to death There were certaine christen people called Valdenses or Leonistes true professoures of the Gospell as appeareth by the articles of their religion which liued in the yeare of our Lorde 1170. And of these godlie Christians speaketh one of your owne writers who saith thus The secte of these Leonistes hath a great shewe of pietie or godlinesse because they liued iustly and vprightly before men â—nd doe beleeue all thinges very well â—hich concerne God and all the artiâ—es which be contained in the Creede â—nelie they doe speake ill of and doe â—ate the Churche of Rome I will not â—eake of king Iohn who detesting your Romishe doctrine was poysoned by a â—ayterous Moonke at Swinested Abbey â—n Lincolneshier I let passe Iohn Wickâ—iffe person of Literworth who reade the â—iuinitie lecture in Oxenforde a zealous â—rofessour of all the pointes of doctrine which we now mainteine Whose bones your cleargie tooke vp manie yeares after his death and burned them I coulde name Iohn Husse and Ierome of Prage Bohemians whome the Emperour and your Pope sent for vnto the councell holden at Constance vnder their safe Conductes to come and goe in safetie yea though they prooued verie notablie their faith which word by worde agreeth with the true religion now set foorth Neuerthelesse contrary to promise their owne hands seales most violently they coÌ„demned theÌ„ for heretikes burned them And to salue this sore bleare the worldes eies they afterwarde decreed that Fides cum haereticis non esset seruanda that is That faith ought not to be kept with heretikes Gods name be thanked it may sufficiently be proued that in all ages there were some which defended the truth against your tyrannie But to come to the Pope this word Papa is a generall name vnto all learned men and therefore doth not pertaine onely to the sea of Rome Saint Augustine Saint Hierome writing one to another calleth each other Papa though one of them was conuersant in Iewrie the other at Hippo in Aphrick But to the matter You woulde knowe what wee mislike in the Popes gouernment and what Pope declined first from his Forefathers faith and steppes The Popes or Bishopes of Rome for the space of three hundred yeares after Christ did for the most parte suffer martyrdome vnder the wicked Emperours for the testitimonie of Christ and the doctrine in these daies published At which time they did not rule but were ruled After that they liued other three hundred yeares and more in a calme time and in greate quietnesse by Gods prouidence vnder Constantine the greate and the godâ— Emperours his successors Which time â—eeing expired and accomplished they â—eeing pricked forwardes through pride â—nd ambition did beginne to claime supeâ—ioritie ouer their fellowe Bishoppes â—nd also to decline by little and little from â—he perfecte rule of God his holy woorde â—nd veritie And in steede thereof magnified and extolled them selues and â—heir own inuentions traditions not stryâ—ing and contending who should excell or â—oe before one an other in pure and â—incere doctrine and holinesse of life But â—ather who coulde woorke moste mischiefe and iniurie one towardes an other of them seeking one to depriue an other of theire Bishopprikes and often times of lyfe in taking one an other out of their graues and also cutting of one an others â—ingers and poisoning one another and â—n making Lawes decrees and ordinanâ—es one against an other there beeing sometymes two or three Popes at one time in doctrine vnsound in life wicked and in this hurley burly the Churche of Rome continued a verie long time both before and after Hildebrande Neuerthelesse this Hildebrande beyng yet Cardinall as one of your owne Cardinals reporteth did beate Pope Alexander with his fist and kept him in
this parte You aske moreouer whether the religion or faith of the Protestantes was euer taught to anie nations in steede of true Christianitie I beseeche you examine well the doctrine of the Protestants and compare it with the doctrine of Christ of the Apostles of the primitiue churche and with the religion set foorth by the godlie writers whiche wrote about the time of Constantine or shortly after And if you can proue that we doe not in al pointes agree with the religion of Christ of the apostles as it is set down in the old and new Testament Choose what translation you will or that we consent not in all thinges concerning faith and the substance of the true doctrine which the auncient fathers as appeareth in their bookes a few erroures by them mainteined onelie excepted then wee will willingly yeelde 〈◊〉 you As for example I will note a fewe capitall pointes of religion because I will not wander in generalities First we confesse with them one waye to â—e iustified and saued by which is by â—â—â— free mercies of God graunted vs by thâ— onely death passioÌ„ of Christ our onely Lord and Sauiour and that faith is the onely meanes and instrument to apprehend this our iustification and saluation That Christ is our Mediator both of redemption and intercession that we ought â—â— pray onely vnto God not to anie Saints â—â— parted and that in the name of Christ and not in the name of anie Angell or â—â—int whatsoeuer To praye for those that be aliue and not for those which bee deade That in the Lordes Supper according to his institution we doo spirituâ—â—ly by faith feed vpon the body of Christ and that Sacrament truely and faithfully receiued as the remembraunce of the â—eath and passion of Christ is a spirituall foode and sustenaunce vnto our soules and a pledge of eternall life to satisfie our consciences We say further that Christ his naturall body fleshe blood and bone is noâ— in the Sacrament vnder the fourme of breade it being onely in heauen on the right hand of God according to the articles of our faith where in body he shall remaine vntill the day of iudgement though Christ our Sauiour as he is God in his diuine nature filleth all places and is with his children powring daily the abundance of his graces vpon them Lastly we say that man hath no free will of himselfe to doo anie good thing no not anie good thought but that it is God that worketh in vs both the will and also the deede according to his good pleasure euen of his free grace If you will either giue eare to the doctrine which we do preach or peruse the bookes which wee haue and doe write you shall see that the Protestantes did neuer vary one ynch from these pointes of true religion which I haue recited But because you make mencion of a knowne catholike Church it behoueth for that an Harlot may haue the countenaunce of an honest woman to distinguish betwixt the true church of God the counterfeit Church and to shew howe they both may be discerned and knowne Wee must needes auouch with the holy spirit of God that the true Church of Christ being the congregation and companie of the faithfull dispersed ouer the face of the whole earth is discerned and knowen by the woord of God For the true Sheepe doo heare the voice of their Pastor Christ Neither is there anie other signe or marke to knowe the Church of God sauing onely the Scriptures of God which are the treasurie of all truth For the citie of the Saintes and houshold of God as the Apostle saith is builded vpon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Iesus Christ himselfe being the chiefe Corner stone So then that is the true Catholike Church consecrated a spirituall Temple 〈◊〉 God which is guided and ruled by the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets Therefore the Church of God is called the Spouse of Christ for that shee ought in al â—inges to harken vnto the voyce of the â—idegroome In like manner the church â— as a piller which the Lord God hath â— in the earth amongst men therein so to little his truth that all stormes and Tempests euen the gates of hell and all the fernall powers fighting against it yet shâ— they not preuaile because shee stayeth â— selfe onely vppon the woord of God aâ— thereby stayeth others and therefore a gâ—ly father saith The piller and strength â— the Church is the Gospel and the spiâ— of lyfe Likewise Saint Agustine saâ—ther be certain books of our Lord vnâ— the authoritie whereof ech part agreeth there let vs seeke for the Church therbâ— let vs examine and try our matters An in the same Chapter I will saieth hee haue you to shew me the church not bâ— the doctrines of men but by the woorâ— of God. Saint Chrisostome saith it cannot by any means be known what is the true church but only by the scriptures â–ª what the counterfeit Church is it appereth by the promisses truely euen that Church which consisteth onely in outwarde shewe challenging authoritie ouer the woord and spirit of God prescribing a rule of woorshiping of God by her owne deuise without anie warrant of the woord of GOD which deuiseth other meanes to be saued by then onely Christ which feigneth that her faith can neuer faile notwithstanding â—â—e neuer aspired vnto the true faith of Christ but hath persecuted the same keeping the sonne of righteousnesse as vnder â—â—â—ile or cloud not suffering him to shine in simple mens mindes and hartes by his holye Scriptures which are the keyes of knowledge the very power of God to saluation to as many as beleeue If we caÌ„not vnderstaÌ„d the scriptures the fault is in vs and not in them As no man may coÌ„demne the brightnes of the sonne because his eye is not able to sustaine the clearenes therof so the hardnes of the mistery which we can not sometimes coÌ„passe or perfectly vnderstand in the scriptures ought not to take away froÌ„ vs the vse of the scriptures Now â—â—â—ing you depende much vppon the aunciâ—â—â— doctors fathers I purpose for the satisfying of the reader to knit vp this diffeâ—â—â—ce betwixt the church of God and the counterfeite Synagogue of Sathan with these woords of S. Augustine Whether they haue the church or no let theÌ„ shew â— the Canonicall bookes of the holy â—riptures we must knowe the Church of â—hrist euen as we likewise know Christ â—hich is the head of the church in the caâ—nical scriptures And what can be more â—laine then that which is spoken by the Euangelist Iohn disseuering the tâ—â—â— Church from the false the true Christiaâ— from hipocrices and the faithful ministeâ— and preachers of the Gospell from faâ— prophets and counterfeit teachers in thâ— fewe woordes Hereby shall ye knoâ— the spirit of God euery spirit which câ—fesseth that Iesus Christ is come in thâ— flesh is of