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A12213 A reply to an ansvvere, made by a popish adversarie, to the two chapters in the first part of that booke, which is intituled a Friendly advertisement to the pretended Catholickes in Ireland Wherein, those two points; concerning his Majejesties [sic] supremacie, and the religion, established by the lawes and statutes of the kingdome, be further justified and defended against the vaine cavils and exceptions of that adversarie: by Christopher Sibthorp, Knight, one of His Majesties iustices of his Court of Chiefe Place within the same realme. Sibthorp, Christopher, Sir, d. 1632. 1625 (1625) STC 22524; ESTC S117400 88,953 134

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strange Clearke be received or Ordered without Letters of Commendation and licence from his owne Bishop Cap. 50. 25. That no man be made Priest under thirtie yeares of age neyther then at randome but appointed and fastned to a certaine Cure Cap. 11. That no Bishop meddle with giving orders in another mans Diocesse Cap. 2● Cap. 42. That onely the Bookes Canonicall be reade in the Church That the false name of Martyres and uncertaine memories of Saints be not observed Cap. 15. Cap. 82. That Sunday be kept c. That the Pastors and Ministers rightly preach and teach the people committed to their charge Jbidem That they suffer not any man under them to propose to the people opinions of their owne devising not agreeable to the holy Scriptures but shall themselves teach profitable and good doctrine tending to life everlasting and instruct others to doe the like Cap. 22. And first of all they shall teach all men generally to beleeve the Father the Sonne and the Holy Ghost to bee one Omnipotent and Eternall and invisible God Creator of Heaven and Earth and of all things in them And that there is but one God-head Substance and Majestie in the three Persons of the Father the Sonne and the Holy Ghost Item They shall preach E d●m cap. 82. That the Sonne of God tooke flesh by the working of the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary shee remayning alwayes a Virgin for the salvation and reparation of makinde That he suffered was buried the third day rose againe and ascended into heaven and that he shall come againe in Majestie to judge all men c. Item Ibidem They shall diligently preach the Resurrection of the dead Item They shall teach all men with all diligence Ibidem for what offences they shall be condemned with the Divell to paines everlasting The Apostle telling us That the workes of the flesh are manifest which are fornication uncleannesse wantonnesse idolatrie witchcraft enmities emulations wrath contentions seditions heresies envie murthers drunkenesse gluttonie and such like of which I tell you now as I tould you before saith the Apostle That they which commit such things shall not inherit the kingdome of God These things therefore which the great Preacher of the Church of God recko●eth by name let them be with all care prohibited remembring how terrible that saying is That they which doe such things shall not come into Gods kingdome Moreover Admonish them saith he Ibidem with all earnestnesse concerning the love of God and of their neighbour concerning Faith and Hope in God Humilitie Patience Chastitie Continencie Liberalitie Mercie giving of Almes acknowledging of their sinnes And concerning forgiving of such as trespasse against them according to the Lords Prayer assuring them that they which doe these things shall obtaine the kingdome of God This we charge and enjoyne you saith he speaking to the Bishops and Cleargie men with so much the more diligence because we know that in the latter times shall come false teachers as the Lord in the Gospell foretold and his Apostle Paul to Timothy testifieth Caroli praefat in Leges Franc. And againe he saith thus therefore you Pastors of Christs Church and Guides of his flocke c have we directed Commissioners unto you who together with you are in our Name and by our Authoritie to redresse those things which neede reformation And to this end have wee here annexed certaine briefe Chapters of Canonicall or Ecclesiasticall institution such as we thought meetest Let no man thinke or judge this our admonition to Godlinesse to be presumpteous whereby wee seek to reforme things amisse to cut off things superfluous and to bring men to that which is right but let them rather receive it with a charitable minde For in the Booke of Kings wee reade what paines that Godly King Iosias tooke to bring the kingdome given him of God to the true worship of the same God by visiting correcting and instructing them not that we compare our selves with his sanctitie but that wee should alwayes imitate such examples of the Godly Here wee see the reason why these Chapters or Lawes were made and Commissioners appointed and sent from the King to put them in execution and that also the examples of Iosiah and such other Godly Kings of Israell and Iuda are to be made patternes and precedents and to be imitated by all Kings and Princes in the Christian Church as touching the good care endevour and paines they are to take everie way they can for the advancement of Gods Religion Legum Franc. lib. 2. cap. 1. After Charles the great were Lodowicke and Lotharius Emperors which Emperors also spake thus to the Bishops and Magistrates of their Dominions You have all no doubt eyther seene or heard that our Fathers and Progenitors after they were chosen by God to this place made this their principall studie how the honour of Gods holy Church and the state of their kingdome might be decently kept Cap. 2. And we for our parts following their example seeing it hath pleased God to appoint us that we should have care of his Church and of this kingdome are very desirous so long as we live to labour earnestly for three speciall things viz. to defend exalt honour Gods holy Church and his servants in such sort as is fit● to preserve Peace and to doe Iustice to all the people And though the chiefe of this service consist in our person Cap 9. yet by Gods and Mans Ordinance it is so devided that everie one of you in his place and calling hath a part of our charge So that I should be your admonisher and you all my coadjutors Yea not only did these Emperors extend their Authority to causes Ecclesiasticall and concerning Religion but had also the Supremacie over all Bishops even over the Bishop of Rome himselfe in their times For so it appeareth by the submission which Leo the fourth Bishop of Rome made to this Lodowicke the Westerne Emperor in these words If saith he we have done otherwise then well Caus 2 quast 7. Cap. Nos si and not dealt uprightly with those that are under us we will amend all that is amisse by the judgement of your highnesse beseeching your hignesse for the better triall of these surmises to send such as in the feare of God may narrowly sift not onely the matters informed but all our doings great and small aswell as if your Majestie were present So that by lawfull examination all may be finished and nothing left undiscussed or undetermined In all things great and small this Bishop of Rome as you see submitted himselfe to the Emperor and to those Commissioners which he wou'd please to send for the sifting and examination of those matters layd to his charge promising to amend all that was amisse in him according to the Emperors owne judgement Wherefore this was not a matter of modesty or
It is true that the same Hosius Bishop of Corduba spake further unto the Emperor in this sort Athanas ad so●tariam vitam agentes God saith he hath committed the Empyre to thee to us the things of the Church And as he that envieth thy Empyre contradicteth the ordinance of God So take thou heede least drawing unto thy selfe the things of the Church thou be guiltie of great sinne It is written give unto Caesar that which is Caesars and unto God that which is Gods It is therefore neyther lawfull for us that be Bishops to hold a kingdom on earth neyther host thou power ô Prince over sacrifices and sacred things Howbeit these wordes doe onely distinguish and put a difference betweene the office and function of Priests and the office and function of Kings and Princes shewing that the one may not incroch or intrude upon that which r●ghtly and properly belongeth unto the other but that every one should keepe himselfe within the bounds of his owne proper calling office And so teach the Protestants also and therefore if any King or Prince usurpe or intrude upon that which is proper and peculiar unto the Priests office as King Vzziah entred into the Temple to burne Incense 2 Chron. 26.16.17.18 which pertayned to the Priests office onely they utterly dislike and condemne it Now then let all this be granted that Kings and Princes may not doe any thing that is proper and peculiar to the Priests office nor may meddle in Ecclesiasticall causes after a cruell and tyrannicall maner nor use their authoritie in Ecclesiasticall causes for the maintenance of Arrianisme or of any other heresie or error nor doe any thing against God or his truth and Religion Yet what doth all this or any of this make against those Godly and Christian Kings and Princes that extend and use their authoritie in Ecclesiasticall causes in a good sort and for God and for the maintenance of his trueth Religion and ordinances It maketh as you see just nothing at all against them But it is further objected that S. Ambrose when Valentinian the Emperor would have had a Church in Millan for the Arrian heretickes answereth thus Neyther is it lawfull for me to yeelde unto it Ambros libr. 5. epist. 3● nor expedient for you ô Emperor to take it The house of a private man you cannot by right invade Doe you thinke then you may take away the house of God It is alledged that the Emperor may doe what he list But I answere burthen not your selfe ô Emperor to thinke that you have any Imperiall right over those things that be Gods Exalt not your selfe so high but if you will raigne long be subject unto God For it is written give unto Caesar that which is Caesars and to God that which is Gods Palaces belong to Emperors Churches to Priests Epist ●● The Church is Gods it ought not to be yeelded by me to Caesar The Temple of God cannot he Caesars right I cannot deliver that to Heretickes which I receaved to keepe on Gods behalfe I would to God Epist 32. it were apparant to me that my Church should not be delivered to the Arrians I would willingly offer my selfe to the judgement of your highnesse I would to God that it were decreed Orat. on● Auxen● that no Arrian should trouble my Churches and of my person pronounce what sentence you will With my consent I will never forgoe my right if I be compelled I have no way to resist I can sorrow I can weepe I can sigh Teares are my weapons Priests have onely these defences By other meanes I neyther ought nor may resist To flie and forsake my Church I use not least any should thinke it done to avoyde some sorer punishment Ibidem Epist 33. If my goods be sought for take them If my bodie I will be readie Will you put mee in Irons or lead mee to death You shall doe me a pleasure I will not guard my selfe with multitudes of people but I will gladly he sacrificed for the Altars of God All this maketh against the favourers and maintayners of Arrianisme but nothing against that authoritie in Ecclesiasticall matters which Kings and Princes have to commande for God and for the good of his Church and the advancement of his Religion against Arrianisme and against all other heresies and errors whatsoever My Adversarie therefore objecteth further that S. Ambrose saith Ambros Epist Lib. 5 cont Aux That a good Emperor is within the Church and not above the Church Indeede seeing the Church is the mother of Christian Emperors aswell as of other Christians it becommeth a Christian Emperor as a good Child and Sonne of such a mother to account ●t his greatest honour to submit himselfe as he ought to the word rules and ordinances which God hath set in the same his Church and not to exa●t himselfe aboue them as Valentinian did when he was so forward for the advancement of Arrianisme Arrian assemblies against the true Church of God and the Orthodoxe Bishops therein For that by the Church here S. Ambrose meaneth the things of God in the Church appeareth not only by that Text which he citeth of Give unto Caesar the things that be Caesars and unto God the things that be Gods but by those other words of his likewise where he saith plainely Ambr. lib. 5. c. 33 Ea quae divina sāt imperatoriae potestati non esse subjecta The things that be divine be not subject to the Emperors power And yet the same S. Ambrose affirmeth nevertheles That the Emperor had power over the persons of all men within his Empyre Ambros de obien Theo●osij Here then you must learne of S. Ambrose to distinguish betweene the things in the Church and the persons in the Church For over all the persons he confesseth That the Emperor had power but not over the Divine things therein And this also doe the Protestants hold that a Christian King hath power over the persons of all Bishops Pastors and Ecclesiasticall Ministers in the Church within his owne Dominions But not over the Divine things therein as namely not over Gods Word his Religion Sacraments and other his Institutions and Ordinances in his Church Yet againe it is objected by some that S. Ambrose reproved the Emperor Valentinian the younger for that he would take upon him to be Iudge in a matter of Faith cause Ecclesiasticall but the reason of it must be knowne For Valentinian a young Prince not yet baptized and a novice in the mysteries of Religion would upon the perswasion and counsell of his Mother Iustina an Arrian needes have Ambrose to come and dispute with Auxentius the Arrian in his Palace or Consistorie before him Ambr ● 5. Orat. co●r Auxent Epist. 53. and he would be the Iudge whether of their two Religions were truest Whereunto Ambrose made answere and gave it in writing to Valentinian shewing him amongst
doth not prove it and it is indeede but an humane devise and conceit and such as is before confuted in my former Booke pag. 95.96 97. whereunto he full maketh no answere And yet it is there shewed that the Companie both Militant and Triumphant make but one body and one Church unto CHRIST IESVS whereof he is the Head and that though in his bodily presence and humanitie hee be in heaven yet by his Deitie and power of his Spirit and word he is in Earth with his Church and can tell how to rule governe comfort confirme guide and direct it and to give all giftes and graces requisite and to doe and performe all the offices of an Head unto it much better then the Pope of Rome or any man mortall whosoever Yea himselfe confuteth himselfe when he saith that in these words of CHRIST Reddite quaesunt Caesaris Caesari quaesunt Dei Deo By this word Caesari is understood saith he The Supreme Governor in Temporall affaires and by the word Deo the Supreme Governor in Spirituall affaires For thereupon it followeth that then is not the Pope of Rome the supreme governor in those spirituall and Ecclesiasticall affaires unlesse he will say that the Pope is God But whereas he maketh Caesar or the Emperor to be the supreme Governour in Temporall affayres onely as though he had no Authoritie in spirituall or Ecclesiasticall matters also therein is still his error because it is before most manifestly proved that even the heathen Emperors and much more those that were Christian Emperors lawfully might did cōmand for God his service Religion dealt in matters Ecclesiasticall aswell as Civill Temporall Yea Rex est persona mixta as our law also calleth him in respect of that his interest Authoritie in causes both Ecclesiasticall Civill For which cause likewise amongst Divines he is said to bee Custos utriusque Tabulae As for that his calumnious speech against Luther and Calvine which he here also inserteth Luther tom 1. in Genes cap. 9. tom 3. Ann●t in Deut. 6. fol. 40. tom 2. responed Ambr Catherinum fol 150. 152. c. Calvin Inst. l b. 4 cap 20. in Rom 13. c. as though they wrote against the obedience due to Princes and their lawes it hath beene often answered by sundrie Protestants and the untruth of it is so notorious as that the workes and writings of them both doe shew and openly proclayme the contrarie to the world if men would please to read them and not to wrest their wordes but to take them everie where in a right sense But what meaneth he by this that he saith Kings and Princes may more confidently build the safetie of their persons estates upon the loyaltie of their Catholicke subjects then upon any Protestant subjects what are Papists whom he calleth Catholicks more loyall to Protestant Kings and Princes then Protestants Is there any likelihood of trueth in this Or doth he thinke that Protestant Kings and Princes will or can be so perswaded For is it possible that they who for love or affection to the Pope and Popish Religion denie and oppugne the Kings SUPREMACIE and the true Christian RELIGION he professeth and defendeth can be more loyall or better subjects unto him then those that acknowledge his SUPREMACIE RELIGION by his Authoritie established Thankefully and joyfully embracing them both praying unto God for the continuance of them and for all maner of happinesse and prosperitie upon him and his which is the defendor and maintayner of them both amongst us and thinke themselves bound in duetie and conscience so to doe Comparisons they say are odious and therefore I could have wished that he had forborne them neyther needed he to have used them For if wee all both Protestants and Papists bee in all respects and at all times found faithfull true and good Subjects to his Majestie as of right duetie we all ought and as I hope we all shall be I doubt not but it will suffice although we strive not thus to provoke one another by Comparative or Superlative termes But what reason hath he further to call Calvine as he doth the sensuall Libertine of this age who wrote against the libertines and against all licentiousnesse and all manner of ungodlinesse and impietie whatsoever For so his many learned laborious godly and worthy workes doe abundantly testifie and declare to the world Will Papists never cease their malitious and untrue accusations against Luther Calvine Beza and other Protestants 5 The second Text I alledged to prove the Kings Supremacie over all persons Ecclesiasticall aswell as Civill within his owne Dominions is taken out of S. Paul in Rom. 13. where S. Paul saith thus Rom. 13.1.2.3.4.5.6 c. Let everie Soule be subject to the higher powers for there is no power but of God and the powers that be be ordained of God Whosoever therefore resisteth the power resisteth the ordinance of God and they that resist shall receive to themselves condemnation For Magistrates are not to bee feared for good workes but for evill Wilt thou then be without feare of the power Doe well so shalt thou have prayse for the same For he is the Minister of God unto thee for thy good but if you doe evill feare For hee beareth not the Sword in vaine For he is the Minister of God a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doth evill Wherefore yee must be subject not onely because of wrath but also for conscience sake And for this cause pay yee tribute also For they are Gods Ministers imploying themselves for that very purpose By the higher powers in this Text whereto subjection is required which beare the sword for the punishment of the evill doers and for the prayse of them that doe well is meant 1. Pet. 2.13.14 as S. Peter also hath before shewed those that be Kings Princes and such like Civill and Temporall Magistrates And this is so evident as that though my Adversary doth not yet the Rhemists doe ingeniously confesse Rhem. Annot. in Rom. 13. vers 4. and teach it For That the Apostle meaneth here specially of Temporall powers we may see say they by the sword tribute and externall compulsion he here attributeth to them Neyther was there then as they say any doubt conceaved by Christian men whether they should obey their Spirituall powers or Spirituall Governors yea or no which is another reason they them give to shew that this Text is not to bee expounded of Spirituall Origen in hunc locum but of Civill and temporall Rulers and Magistrates Origen likewise declareth the same affirming them to be Non Antistites Principes Ecclesiarum sed Mundi judices seculi potestates Not Bishops and Prelates of Churches but worldly Iudges and secular Powers In like sort S. Ambrose affirmeth them to be Reges Ambros in hunc locum Aug. de Catech. rudibus cap. 21. seculi
other words that follow namely In omni pietate c Take all the words of S. Paul together and they be these I exhort saith he that first of all supplications prayers intercessions 1. Tim. 2.1.2 and giving of thankes be made for all men for Kings and all that are in authoritie that we may leade a quiet and peaceable life 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in all godlinesse and honestie By which words so put together it appeareth That S. Paul would have Christians to pray thus specially for Kings and Princes not onely to this end which my Adversary supposeth viz. for the mantainance and preservation of externall peace and correspondencie of humane societie but to this end also and that chiefely that Pietie Godlinesse and Religion may by their meanes be continued countenanced and protected amongst them And this had the Christian Emperors learned in ancient time For Iustinian that Christian Emperor in his dayes Novel Const. 6. spake thus The true Religion of God and honest conversation of the Priests is our chiefest care Legum Theod. No●●el tit 3. de In●ae●● Samaritaine And in this sort likewise spake Valentinian and Theodosius Emperors saying The search of true Religion we finde to be the chiefest care of the Imperiall Majestie And therefore also did S. Augustine say long agone That it is enjoyned Kings from God Aug. contr Crescun lib. 3 cap ●1 that in their kingdomes they should commaund good things and forbid evill things not onely such things as belong to humane societie but such things also as belong to Gods Religion This cleare and most evident testimonie of S. Augustine to declare the authoritie of Kings aswell in matters Divine and concerning Religion as in matters Civill Temporall I alledged in the first Chapter of my former Booke pag. 10. whereunto neverthelesse as to many other things in my booke contayned My Adversarie is pleased to answere nothing The second Position he busieth himselfe in is that the Regall Power or authoritie is subordinate to the S●cerdotall or Spirituall It is true that Kings Princes notwithstanding their Regall power be subordinate and subject to God and his authoritie But what of this Indeede if Ecclesiasticall Ministers spake to Kings and Princes in their owne names and by their owne authoritie and uttered their owne will and pleasure there might be some reason in that which he would conclude but seeing they are to speake unto them not their owne will but the will and word of the Almightie and in his Name and as Embassadors Ministers Messengers and servants unto him no such consequent can be inferred 2. Cor 5 20. 1 Cor. 4 1.2 For if a King send an Esquier or any other inferior servant of his on a message to a Duke Earle or other Noble-man of the Realme This servant speaking in the King his Masters name and delivering his message is therein to be obeyed Will any thereupon conclude Ergo That Esquier or servant is greater or superior as in respect of himselfe or of his owne person then eyther the Duke or the Earle or the Noble-man No man I thinke will be so absurd And yet my Adversarie goeth on and amplifieth the Sacerdotall and spirituall power saying That how much the Soule in perfection exceedes the Bodie The eternall blisse the temporall felicitie The Divine Lawes the humane lawes By somuch doth the Spirituall authoritie exceede the Temporall But all this while he should remember and observe wherein and in what respects it is that this excellencie of the one above the other doth consist For as it is true that in respect of converting soules and fitting them for Gods kingdome by preaching of Gods Word Administring of the Sacraments and exercise of the Ecclesiasticall Discipline the Spirituall function and authoritie is to be preferred before the Regall or temporall So no lesse true is it that in respect of the temporall Power of the Sword externally to command compell and to punish offendors in causes both Ecclesiasticall and Civill the Regall Temporall Office and Authoritie is to be preferred before the Episcopall or Sacerdotall When therefore he supposeth that the King or Prince in respect of the Priest is but as the bodie is in respect of the Soule and that hee hath no more power and authoritie over Priests and Bishoppes then the bodie hath over the Soule How doth he prove this fond conceite For it is not the credite or testimonie of his S. Thomas as he calleth him who lived more then 1200. yeares after CHSIST and was overwhelmed with the corruption of his time and wedded to the Sea of Rome that can bee any sufficient proofe of that idle fantazie Yea it is apparant that to some purposes the Regall Power Office hath in it the nature and resemblance of the soule aswell as the Sacerdotall or Episcopall hath to some other purposes For as the soule commandeth the bodie so hath the King power to command the Priest and may by as good right punish all maner of offendors Civilly and by temporall punishments as Bishops and Clergie men may punish any Ecclesiastically and by the Church censures To make this the better to appeare beside that which is spoken in my former Booke observe first that Moses who was as a King or a Prince in Israell commanded not only the Levites Deut. 33.5 Deut. 31 2●.26 which bare the Arke of the Covenant of the Lord and that in a matter Ecclesiasticall and concerning their very Office but he commanded also even Aaron the high Priest in a matter likewise Ecclesiasticall and concerning his verie Office saying thus unto him Take the Censer Numb 16 46.4● and put fire therein off the Altar and put therein Incense and goe quickely unto the Congregation make an Attonement for them For there is wrath gone out from the Lord the plague is begun Then Aaron tooke as Moses commanded him c. He Exod. 32.21 2● moreover called Aaron the high Priest to an account for his bad doings and removed him for the same Whereupon Aaron answered humbly and submissively unto him as to his Soveraigne Lord saying Let not the wrath of my Lord waxe fierce c. Numb 12.11 In like sort did Aaron speake unto Moses in another place saying My Lord I beseech thee c. 1. Sam. 22.12.15 So did also Abimelech the high Priest answere to his king submissively and dutifully saying thus unto him Here am I my Lord c. Let not the King impute any thing to his servant nor to all the house of my Father for thy servant knew nothing of all this lesse or more The Prophets likewise as well as the Priests and high Priests did acknowledge this humble submission and subjection unto their kings as is evident by the example of the Prophet Nathan who when he came into the presence of the King 1. King 1 23. c. he made obeysance to the king upon his face to the ground
Emperor Constantius wisheth him as Athanasius testifieth not to meddle in Ecclesiasticall matters It is true that Hosius Cordubensis did and had just cause to reprove Constantius and to wish and advise him not to meddle in matters Ecclesiasticall in such sort as he did he using or rather abusing all his authoritie in matters Ecclesiasticall to the mantaynance of the Arrians and arrianisme against the true Christian and Orthodoxe Bishops and against the truth of the God-head of CHRIST For Athanasius in the same Epistle sheweth that Paulinus and other Bishops being called before the Emperor the Emperor commanded them to subscribe against Athanasius Ibidem and to communicate with the Arrians They mervayled at this and answering that the Ecclesiasticall Canons would not suffer them to doe so He replied But what I will let that be taken for a Canon The Bishops of Syria endure this speech of mine Eyther therefore doe you as I will you or else goe you also into banishment And when the Bishops held up their hands to God and proposed their reasons shewing him That the kingdome was not his but Gods of whom he received it that it was to be feared least he that gave it him would speedily take it from him Setting also before his eyes the day of judgement and advising him Not to subvert Ecclesiasticall order nor to bring the Arrian heresie into the Church of God He would neyther heare them nor permitt them to speake but grievously bending his browes for that they had spoken and shaking his Sword at them commanded them to be taken away Yea what crueltie tyrannie and persesecution was used and raysed by Constantius in the behalfe of the Arrians against the Orthodoxe and right beleeving Christians is further declared by the same Athanasius shewing Ibidem that even Pagans were set to invade the Churches of the right and true Christians and to beate the people with slaves and stones The Bishops Priests Monkes were bound with chaines and scourged with r●ds The 〈◊〉 were haled by the haire to the judgement seate The virgins were tosted by the fire and whipt with prickles others were banished strangled and trampled under feete to death and their limmes and joyntes rent and torne a sunder after they were dead In somuch that Athanasius crieth out saying Who was not amazed at these things Who would yeeld them the name of heathen men much lesse the name of Christian men Who would thinke them to have conditions of men and not rather of beasts Yea who perceived not the Arrians to be crueller then beasts The strangers standing by yea the very Ethnickes detested the Arrians as Antichrists and Butchers of men Oh new-found heresie saith he which in villanies and impieties hast put on the fulnesse of the Divell how great soever it be Againe he saith Whom hath not Constantius banished Ibidem that was accused by the Arrians When did he not give them both audience and allowance Whom did he ever admitte to say any thing against them Or what did he not admitte which they spake against others He ever doth that which the Arrians would have and they againe say that which him liketh And Athanasius saith yet further of him That whensoever he called an Assembly Iudgement or Councell of Bishops it was but for a shew For he did neverthelesse what himselfe listed What libertie for persuasion or what place of advise saith he is there when he that contradicteth shall for his labour loose eyther his life or his countrey Why hath the Emperor gathered so great a number of Bishops partly terrified with threats partly inticed with promises to condescend that they will no longer communicate with Athanasius This violent oppressing of Bishops in their Synods or Councells working them to his owne will Hiler lib. 1. contra Constant. doth S. Hilary also witnesse saying thus unto him Thou gatherest Synods or Councells and when they be shut up together in one Citie thou terrifiest them with threats thou pinest them with hunger thou lamest them with cold thou depravest them with dissembling Againe hee saith Ibidem Oh thou wicked one what a mockery dost thou make of the Church Onely dogges returne to their vomite and thou compellest the Priests of CHRIST to suppe up those things which they have spet forth and commandest them in their confessions to allow that which before they condemned What Bishops hand hast thou left innocent What tongue hast not thou forced to falshood Whose heart hast not thou brought to the condemning of his former opinion Thou hast subjected all to thy will yea to thy violence Good cause therefore had Hosius Cordubensis to say as he did unto that Emperor Meddle not Emperor with Ecclesiasticall matters namely in this sort as thou dost for the maintaynance of arrianisme making thy will to stand for a law c. For if you will have these words Ne te misceas Ecclesiasticis Meddle not with Ecclesiasticall matters to be taken absolutely and without restriction to debarre Kings and Princes from all intermedling in Ecclesiasticall causes any kind of way such an exposition were not onely contrarie to the Acts of Constantine the Lawes of Iustinian the Chapters and doings of Charles the Great and the Historie of all the Christian Emperors for the space of many hundred yeares after CHRIST but it were also contrarie to the opinion and practise even of Athanasius himselfe who is the reporter of those words of Hosius For it is evident that Athanasius himselfe was never of that minde to exclude Christian Kings and Princes from all intermedling in causes Ecclesiasticall Yea he was a cleare approver of that Authoritie in them as appeareth by this That when he was commanded to conferre with one Arius concerning matters of Faith He answered Who is so farre out of his wits that he dare refuse the commandement of the Prince Disput Athan. cum A●●o Lao dicea hab●ta Athanas a●●l 2. Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 21. 22. lat Yea the Emperors commandement made him to appeare before the Councell of Tyrus and finding that Councell not to be indifferent but partially affected he and the rest of the Orthodoxe Bishops that to●ke part with him appealed to the Emperor himselfe He also in person fled to the Emperor desiring him to send for the Bishops of the Councell of Tyrus and to examine their doings which the Christian Emperor did accordingly So that it is manifest that Athanasius did approve of the Authoritie of the Emperors in Ecclesiasticall causes albeit hee would not have them to use their authoritie cruelly or tyrannically to serve their owne violent wills and pleasures nor thereby to doe any thing whatsoever against CHRIST and his Religion as that Arrian Emperor Constantius did But when all this is granted it maketh nothing against those Christian Emperors Kings and Princes which in good sort use their authoritie not against CHRIST as he did but for CHRIST his trueth and Religion
to Christian Emperors Kings and Princes which is allowed to farre inferior and meaner persons Yea these chiefly and principally in regard of their high places and callings are to be allowed this right Whereas therefore my Adversarie saith that Bishops and Cleargie men should be Iudges for determining of Dogmaticall questions and Controversies of Faith and Religion and that Christian Emperors Kings and Princes are to be guided directed taught and instructed by them all this is granted Yet withall let Christian Kings and Princes have also herein their dues and that right which to them belongeth Which is to search the Scriptures thereby to trie examine whether the doctrine of their Teachers be true or false For Act 17.12 Basil 〈◊〉 d●f 77. pag. 432. it behoueth the Hearers saith S. Basill that be instructed in the Scriptures to trie those things which are spoken by their Teachers and receiving that which agreeth with the Scriptures to reject the contrarie And so S. Augustine likewise Aug in Iohan. tract 46. Sua vero si velint docere nolite audire nolite facere That if they will teach their owne devises you must neyther heare them nor doe as they teach you Although then Bishops Pastors Ministers Ecclesiasticall are first of all to be consulted with to ●udge of matters of Faith controversies in Religion y●● are they not absolute and infallible Iudges nor absolute and infallible Teachers or directors but are themselves limited and to be directed in all their Iudgements Doctrines and Decrees by that onely absolute and infallible rule of trueth the sacred and Canonicall Scriptures So that if they shall judge direct decree or teach any thing not according to the Divine Scriptures but contrarie thereunto as the Arrian Bishops in time past did and as the Popish Bishops and Teachers in these dayes doe all that is ●ustly worthy to be refused by all Christian Emperors Kings and Princes as is verie evident both by all good reason and by that which is before delivered Now then although these two points be granted to my Adversarie viz. That the Regall and Priestly offices be things distinct and that those that beare Regall Authoritie be also subordinate and subject to that Authoritie message and Ministerie which God hath cōmitted to Bishops Pastors and Ministers Ecclesiasticall yet when there is further a third point appearing which he must acknowledge namely that Bishops Pastors and Ecclesiasticall Ministers be also subordinate and subject to the sword and Authoritie of Christian Kings and Princes and that in matters Ecclesiasticall and concerning Religion aswell as in matters Civill and Temporall as is before at large declared What benefite or advantage doth he get thereby Yea is not his cause thereby for ever overthrowen Thus farre then you see that the plea which hee hath put in for a demurrer or stay of mens judgements is altogether insufficient for that purpose and therefore for any matter yet shewed by him or appearing to the contrarie all mens judgements may and ought to proceede and to be given against him and his cause unlesse in that which followeth he can shew better matter then as yet he hath shewed Let us therefore now see whether hee hath any better matter in that then he hath found in those his two points before mentioned For those his two former points appeare not worth a poynt nor of any value or validitie at all against the Kings SUPREMACIE 4 First it is true that I alledged that Text of 1. Pet. 2.13 To prove the KINGS SUPREMACIE over all persons aswell Ecclesiasticall as Civill within his owne Dominions And what can my Adversary say against it Doth not S. Peter expressely require of all Christians that live within the Dominion of any King 1. Pet. 2.13 That they should submit themselves unto him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 unto the Chiefe or Supreme person over them Hee cavilleth at my argument because it is thus propounded interrogatively and not affirmatively A verie childish exception if it be not more then childish For is he so sillie and ignorant that he knoweth not that an interrogative speech doth sometime carrie the force of the greater more Emphaticall affirmation And yet if hee had but read and remembred the verie next words following that interrogative he might have found a redditive and a direct affirmative answere thereunto For the words next and immediately following bee these It is evident say I that he calleth the King Chiefe or Supreme not onely in respect of Dukes Earles or other Temporall governors as the Rhemists would have it but in respect of all the rest likewise were they Bishops Pastors Cleargie men or whosoever For he writeth that his Epistle not to Heathens but to Christians and amongst them not to the Lay people onely but to such also as were Presbiters and did 〈…〉 1. Pet 112.34 5. 〈…〉 5 1.2 doe the office of Bishops amongst them requiring even them aswell as the rest to yeelde their subjection submission unto him Now then seeing this direct affirmative in my Booke pag. 1. of that Chapter and that the words of S. Peter in the Text it selfe be also direct affirmative 1. Pet. 2.13 for these be his words Be yee therefore subject c. What doth he or can he answere thereunto He sti●l cavilleth at the words of the Text playing with them ad libitum and maketh the reason of it to be because he is a Lawyer as though it were lawfull or allowable for a man of that profession to be a wrangling Lawyer or as though because he is a Lawyer it were as free for him to cavill and sport himselfe with Divine Texts and evidences as with humane or as though he had never heard nor learned That Non est bonum ludere cum Sanctis Seeing I am a Lawyer saith he let me article and make my argument or plea upon the Text And then hee goeth on and saith That these wordes in the Text Be subject doe no more specifie the Christians then the Heathens nor any more the Subjects then the Princes Be not these strange asseverations For when S. Peter writeth that his Epistle not to Heathens 1. Pet. 1.2 3.4 c. but to Christians dispersed through Pontus Galatia Capadocia Asia and Bithinia and saith thus unto them Subjecti estote Be yee subject Can these words thus directly and purposely spoken to Christians no more specifie or intend Christians then Heathens Where were the mans wits I mervaile when he wrot thus absurdly Yea himselfe afterward confuteth himselfe For mentioning both this Text of S. Peter and that also of S. Paul in Rom. 13.1 c. He saith that in these two cited places both these Apostles Exhort to obedience and the reason saith he why the King is mentioned Is because in those dayes Christians were by the malice of their Adversaries accused of sedition and rebellion against Princes Doth hee not by these wordes make it verie evident that S.
law of God Dan. 3.29 by the Ministerie of Ezra that learned Scribe Nebuchadnezzar also though an heathen King gave a commandement and made a decree that none should blaspheme the GOD of Shadrach Dan 6 25 26. Meshach and Abednego King Darius likewise gave commandement made a decree that in all the Dominions of his kingdom men should tremble feare before the Lord God of Daniel whose God was the true God Some heathē Emperors also gave commandment that men should cease from persecuting the Christians that Christians should have the free exercise of their Religion build Oratories places for their meetings and assemblies Euseb li 7. cap. ●8 cap 12. quietly possesse them for the service of their God Were not these such like commandments good lawful cōmendable Euseb lib. 9 cap. 16. cap. 8. lat though given by heathen Emperors and in causes Ecclesiasticall and concerning Religion And were they not meete to be obeyed If then heathen Kings and Princes may as is manifest lawfully and laudably command for God his worship service and Religion and are therein dutifully to be obeyed By what right or reason can it bee denied to Christian Kings and Princes to have at least the like authoritie to command in matters Ecclesiasticall for God his service and Religion For shall Christian Kings and Princes be in worse case then heathen Kings Or shall they fare the worse or have the lesse Regall power and authority because of their Religion of Christianitie God forbid This argument I likewise alledged in the first Chapter of my former Booke pag. 7. whereto my Adversarie againe like a wise man still knoweth how to answere nothing And yet he saith he will propose my defused argument in a succinct forme the most for my advantage●● But I neyther desire nor looke for any advantage at his hands Let him make his owne Arguments the best hee can for his owne advantage As for mine I would not have him to frame them unlesse hee would doe it more truely Hee would indeede make my Argument defused or rather confused by his confused maner of answering jumbling things together which I had Methodically and expressely distinguished For first my purpose was to prove his Majesties SUPREMACIE over all persons within his owne Dominions and then afterward in the second place to shew his Authoritie in respect of Causes Ecclesiasticall aswell as Civill In the first Section of that Chapter pag. 1.2.3.4 I handle the first point concerning his Supremacie in respect of persons and in the second section pag. 5. and not before it is that I begin to handle his Authoritie in respect of causes This Text then of S. Peter being alledged as it is in the first section and pag. 1. was by me produced to prove onely his Majesties Supremacie over all persons aswell Ecclesiasticall as Civill within his owne Dominions and not for any such end or purpose as thereby to prove his Majesties Authoritie in causes Ecclesiasticall aswell as Civill as he misconceaveth But sith he will needes have it so used I am well content with it because that Text doth indeede serve verie sufficiently to prove both those purposes For the first the argument is verie apparant and may be framed thus If all persons aswell Ecclesiasticall as Civill are to be subject to their King as to the Chiefe or Supreme within his owne Dominions then hath their King a cleare Supremacie over them all But all persons aswell Ecclesiasticall as Civill are to be subject to their King as to the Chiefe or Supreme within his owne Dominions for so S. Peter directly teacheth Ergo their King hath a cleare Supremacie over them all And for the second point the argument is also very open and evident For the King is not called the Chiefe or Supreme in respect onely of the excellencie of his person above all his subjects but in respect also of his Authoritie Rule and Governement he hath over them yea in this respect specially he is so called as appeareth by this That S. Peter distribu●es the humane creature he there speaketh of that is the Temporall Magistrates Rulers or Governors into the King as being the Chiefe or Supreme Governor and into other that be governors under him So that here we finde the Kings Title of Supreme Governor very manifestly proved and directly ratified and confirmed And that his governement and authoritie extendeth also to all manner of causes and consequently to causes Ecclesiasticall aswell as Civill it is thus also made verie apparant out of this Text. For S. Peter here sheweth 1. Pet 2.13.14 that the King as the Supreme Governor and the other that bee inferior governors under him be all constituted to this end viz. For the punishment of evill doers and for the prayse of them that doe well Now be there not or may there not be evill doers aswell in the Church as in the Commonweale and transgressors and offendors aswell in matters Ecclesiasticall as Civill and Temporall Shall not then aswell the one sort of these offendors as the other be held punishable by the Kings Civill and Temporall Sword especially when they grow and continue obstinate wilfull perverse and unruly and will not otherwise be reclaymed The Text maketh no such difference or distinction as the Papists fondly doe betweene offendors in causes Ecclesiasticall and offendors in causes Civill and Temporall but generally or indefinitely it would have Evill doers of what sort soever without any distinction exception or restriction to bee punished by this Civill sword And ubi lex non distinguit ibi nec nos distinguere debemus The Argument then for the Kings Authoritie in matters Ecclesiasticall aswell as in Civill out of this Text of S. Peter is and may be framed thus Whosoever hath authoritie from God to punish Evill doers by the Civill sword without any distinction restriction or exception of causes hath Authoritie in causes Ecclesiasticall aswell as Civill But the King hath Authoritie from God to punish ●●●-●oers by the Ciuill sword without any distinction restriction or exception of causes Ergo The King hath Authoritie in causes Ecclesiasticall aswell as Civill The Mato● is evident in it selfe The Miror is proved and apparant by the Text and therefore the conclusion must be granted My Adversarie neverthelesse still urgeth that as touching spirituall and Ecclesiasticall causes and matters and concerning Religion obedience must be performed to the Supreme Pastor and head of the Church And who denieth this Yea this is granted unto him so hee take it rightly For not the Pope as he and other Papists strangely suppose but CHRIST IESVS onely is the Chiefe Sheepheard or Supreme Pastor and head of the Church as hath beene often declared and as is apparant As for that he saith That the Militant Church must have some visible head in Earth to rule and governe it 1. Pet. 5.4 Hebr. 13 20. Colos 1.18 Ephes 1 2●.23 He onely saith it but
rectores Kings and secular Governors S. Augustine also saith that hereby is taught Ecclesiam Christi in omnibus sanctis ejus servituram esse sub Regibus seculi That the Church of Christ in all his Saints Lib. 2. dist 44. must serve under the Kings of this world The M. of the Sentences likewise saith that the Apostle speaketh of Princes and such like Aquinas also doth interprete them Aquinas in ●●lle locum to be Potestates terrenas carnales Dominos Terrestriall powers and temporall Governors Aug contr epist Parmen li. 1. c. 7 S. Augustine againe in another place yet more fully declareth the same What credit then is to be given to mine Adversarie when contrarie to the testimonie of all these and contrarie also to the testimonie of the Rhemists and contrarie also to the cleare evidence of the Text it selfe he saith That in these higher Powers is no more included the Temporall then the Spirituall Powers Yea S. Chrysostome also yet further sheweth that Apostles Prophets Evangelists and such like Ecclesiasticall Ministers are to be reckoned in the number of those Soules that are to bee subject to the higher powers and therefore can none of them no not the Bishop of Rome himselfe be comprised or intended under the name of the higher Powers there mentioned Chrysost in Rom homi● 23. S. Chrysostomes wordes be these Let everie Soule be subject to the higher Powers Yea though you be an Apostle though an Evangelist though a Prophet Sive quisquis tandem fueris c. Or whosoever you be My Adversarie is so captious as that because in my former Booke pag. 2. cap. 1. there is an c. after these wordes in Latin Quisquis tandem fueris hee would make his Reader beleeve that there is some abstruse meaning in that Enigmaticall ●●●se as he calleth it which if I would unfold would declare how little it made for my purpose But why doth not himselfe unfold that aenigma Is it because Davus est non Oedipus For if himselfe had read the place in Chrysostome as it seemeth he did not he might easily have unfolded the aenigma discovered the fallacy or deceit if any had lyen inclosed or hidden in it But my selfe did indeed sufficiently unfold it in the verie same place pag. 2. where after that c. I added out of Chrysostome that which I meant by that c. namely these words Neque enim pietatē subvertit ista subjectio For neyther doth this subjection overthrow pietie or godlinesse The whole clause and sentence then that being also added which was intended by the c. is this viz. Let everie Soule be subject to the Higher powers Yea though you be an Apostle though an Evangelist though a Prophet or vvhosoever you be For neyther doth this subjection overthrow pietie or godlinesse Now he hath it wholy intirely unfolded What can he make of it eyther to advantage himselfe or to disadvantage mee Yea this unfolding expressing of it rather maketh for me because it directly affirmeth that this subjection of Apostles Prophets Evangelists all other Ministers Ecclesiasticall To these Higher powers standeth well with Christian Religion and doth no way subvert or overthrow any part of pietie or godlinesse Wherefore S. Chrysostome saith there yet further that Omnibus ista praecipiuntur Sacerdotibus quoque a● Monachis non solum secularibus These things be commanded to all even to the Priests also and to Monckes and not to secular-men onely I likewise alledged in that first Chapter of my Booke pag. 2. 3. Theodoret Theodoret. Theophil Oecumenius in Rom 13. Be●●ar Epist 42 Greg. Epist. li. 2 Epist. 62. 65. Paris 1605. Theophila●● Oecumenius Aeneas Silvius Gregory and Bernard who all declare aswell as Chrysostome that even Bishops Priests and Cleargie-men and not Secular or Lay-men onely be in the number of those Soules that are to be subject to these higher Powers In somuch that Aeneas Silvius Aene●● Silvius lib. 1 de Ge●●● Basil Concil who was himselfe sometime a Pope of Rome affirmeth that S. Paul saith Omnis anima potestatibus subli mioribus subdita fit nec excipit animam Papae Let everie Soule be subject to the higher Powers Neyther saith he doth S. Paul here except the soule of the Pope himselfe but that he also ought to be subject And for further proofe hereof Ortat contr Parmen lib 3. I alledged also the testimonie of Optatus who saith that super Imperatorem non est nisi solus Deus qui fecit Imperatorem Above the Emperor is not any but God onely that made the Emperor I cited also the testimonie of Tertullian Tertul ad S●apul cap. 2. writing thus Colimus Imperatorem ut hominem à Deo secundum solo Deo minorem We Christians doe honour the Emperor as the man next unto God inferior onely unto God Agreeably whereunto he saith againe of the Emperors Ters Apolog. cap. ●0 that they be under the power of God onely à quo sunt secundi post quem primi from whom they be the second after whom they be the first And pag. 30. I alledged the testimonie Chrysost ad popul Antioch homil 2. once more of S. Chrysostome who saith of the Christian Emperor in his time that Non habet parem super terram He hath no peere or equall upon earth Yea he saith further of him that hee was Summitas caput omnium super terras hominum The head and one that had the supremacie over all men upon earth To all which my Adversarie according to his wonted wise and learned manner of answering thought it best to answere nothing Thus farre then have I proved against him that by the higher powers in this Text of S. Paul be meant Emperors Kings Princes such like temporall Magistrates and that by everie Soule in this Text which is to be subject to the higher Powers is meant all manner of persons whatsoever Ecclesiasticall aswell as Civill and Temporall and consequently that the Bishop of Rome was then clearely subject to the Emperor of Rome and so ought still to have continued But my Adversary at last granteth That Bishops Priests and Cleargie-men be subject to the King and to his Lawes but with this distinction namely according to the directive power of them but not according to the coactive And this distinction he learned Bellar. de Clericis cap 28. not onely of Suarez but of Bellarmine also For thus likewise writeth Bellarmine Non sunt amplius Reges Clericorum superiores proinde non tenentur Iure divino nec humano eis parere nisi quantū ad leges directivas Kings are not any longer Soveraignes or superiors to Cleargie-men and therefore are they not bound to obey them by Gods Law or Mans law unlesse it be in respect of lawes directive What Bellarmine meaneth by lawes directive himselfe declareth when he saith That Princes have no coactive