be heard among them And for us thy poore handmaids here humbly suppliant before thee let thy holy Spirit direct lead and assist us in the way which may be most acceptable to thy Majesty and profitable for thy People and comfortable to us all in our distressed estate And shew unto thy Servants what thou wouldst have us to doe in this difficult businesse about the presenting of this Reply to the King which with our selves and all thine we humbly commend to thy grace and blessing through Iesus Christ to whom with thee ô Father and the Holy Ghost be all honour and glory now and ever Amen Mother Now my deare Children I will tell you what resolution GOD hath put into my heart upon the very close of this Prayer namely that we addresse our selves to the King with this Reply together with an humble Petition And because all of us perhaps would be too many let as many of you as are willing to attend me goe with me to the King the rest let them goe and be humble suiters at the Throne of Grace that our GOD would give us to find Grace in the eyes of the King so as hearkening to our Petition he may doe accordingly Such therefore of you as are willing to accompany me stand on this side and the rest stand on that side Well I see you are equally divided Six with me and Six for me With me Charity Humilty Prudence Piety Patience and Verity For me Faith Hope Zeale Iustice Mercy Prayer Now my Gracious Children be strong and of a good courage Our Cause is good and GOD is for us and though our enemies be great yet they shall not prevaile against us TO THE KINGS MOST EXCELLENT MAIESTY THE TRVE CHVRCH AND CHILDREN THE TRUE FAITH AND RELIGION OF JESUS CHRIST do humbly present their Petition of Right THAT whereas a Book intituled A Relation of a Conference between WILLIAM LAUDE and Mr. FISHER the Iesuite hath been by the said WILLIAM now of Canterbury lately republished and that under your Majesties Patronage and in the publishing whereof as he saith he hath obeyed your Majesty And whereas A Reply to the said Relation is now under the Patronage of JESUS CHRIST and in obedience to his Word and by assistance of his Grace here published and presented to your Majesty and before all the World in which Reply are detected and clearely evinced by manifold and infallible Testimonies sundry particular passages and Doctrines of the Relator which directly overthrow all true Christian Faith and Religion And whereas in this Reply is clearely proved that Prelaticall Government of the Church or the Hierarchy as they call it is meere Antichristianisme and the very Mistery of Iniquity branded by the Apostle and expresly forbidden by Christ himselfe to his Apostles whose Successors the Prelates falsely pretend to be and that all Prelates even as they are Prelates are both by their Profession and Practise so many Antiâ—hrists adversaries to CHRIST who as the Great Antichrist sit as Gods in the Temple of GOD Lording over the Faith Soule and Conscience of GODS People thrusting CHRIST out of his Throne And whereas notwithstanding the manifest truth hereof confirmed by most cleare Testimony and undeniable Proofes of Scripture the Relator or Prelate hath in his said Relation uttered sundry blasphemous Speeches belying the Wisedome Counsell and Providence of GOD and of CHRIST as making Him the Author and Ordainer of such a Hierarchicall Government of his Church which is to Father upon GOD and CHRIST a most notorious Lye and Falshood where he addes withall a blasphemous New Article of Belief of the Church of England that this is a truth And whereas the Holy Scriptures is and hath been in all Ages and by all Sound and Orthodox Divines both Ancient and Moderne both Forraigne and Domestick universally received held and constantly beleeved and maintained against all Adversaries of the Truth to be the Onely Rule of Faith and Iudge of Controversies in Divinity and alone Selfe-sufficient to give Testimony to it selfe that it is the undoubted Word of GOD as in this Reply also is fully prooved And whereas the Relator notwithstanding hath loded the Scripture with many intollerable reprâ—ohes and blasphemous words of disgrace censuring it as an insufficient witnesse to it selfe and an incompetent Iudge of Controversies in Faith as being both a blinde dumbe and dead Judge and that it hath no light in it selfe but is as a Candle in a box without light till Tradition of the present Church doe light it and the like the very ground of all Infidelity and Apostacie And whereas notwithstanding all such his blasphemies against the Scripture wherewith he hath stuffed some 30 leaves in Follio besides many other the like scattered all along his Book he the same Relator out of his grosse hypocrisie addeth this proud Blasphemy to all the rest That he hath given the Scripture all honour and ascribed unto it Sufficiencie more then enough And whereas also as appeareth in this Reply the Relator belyes and blasphemes the Holy Ghost himselfe making him the Author of most notorious lyes and vanity And whereas the Relator doth define a meere false and counterfeit Catholicke Church contrary to that Holy Catholick Church beleeved in the Creed whereby he overthrowes both that Article of Faith and with all the Communion of Saints teaching that his Catholicke Church though it cease to be holy yet is a true Church of CHRIST still And whereas of and in this his new Catholicke Church which the Relator beleeveth he makes the Church of England and of Rome to be one and the same Church and both to hold one and the same Faith of that his Catholicke Prelaticall Church which Faith is declared in the Reply not to be the true saving Faith and that they both do set up and professe one and the same Religion not different in which Faith and Religion of the Church of England and of Rome he saith as he hath lived so he resolves to dye as much to say as he will live and dye an English-Romish-Catholicke And whereas the Replyer proveth and which no Papist denyeth that the maine substance of the Romish Religion is the Masse And whereas the Relator confesseth that though a simple Papist may as he saith yet no Romanist as a Romanist living and dying in the Roman Faith can be saved and yet this Faith of Rome is the same with that of England wherein he will end his dayes So as the Church of England may hereby see in what a case she is and how highly she is preferred by her Primate as to be brought to be of the same Church the same Faith the same Religion with Rome enough to startle all your Majesties Subjects that till now thought themselves to bo Protestants and no Papists and to cause all zealous Christians to abandon all communion with such a Church as is the same Church of the same Faith and Religion with Rome And wheras
this Relator professeth and teacheth a blind Charity sutable to his Faith which he boldly affirmeth to be not a mistaken Charity in granting that a silly ignorant Papist so living and dying may be Saved by his Ignorance in that Religion conforming himselfe to his Religious life and on the contrary condemning such Protestants of stiffenesse and churlishnesse that are not of the same Charity with him though the Replyer proveth that there is no true Charity without true Faith and Verity And whereas the same Relator is shewed in this Reply to give much more liberty to your Majesties Protestant People to goâ— to the Romish Masse as being with him one and the same undiffering Religion with that of England then the Jesuite doth to his blind Romanist to come to the English Church And whereas the same Relator hath many passages wherein he makes a Generall Councell of Prelates Iudge in all Controversies of Faith ascribing unto them an Infallibility and in case they shall erre and that even in grosse things and points of Faith yet that all men are bound to yeeld obedience at least externall till another Generall Counsell equall to the former reverse those Errours whereupon by Consequence of this Prelaticall doctrine as the Replyer doth instance the Church of England it self is bound to observe the worship of Images and the forbearance of the Cup in the Sacrament c. decreed in Generall Councels and not yet reversed by other Generall Councels equall to those And whereas the Relator calls Transubstantiation Purgatory and the forbearance of the Cup but disputable and Improbable Questions the nature of which is to be taken indifferently Pro and Con And whereas he never once in all his Relation calls the Romish-worship of Images and of the Sacrament or any other Idolatry in all the Romish Church but onely by the name of Superstition abstaining altogether from the name of Idolatry as if with him the Roman Church were no Idolatresse And whereas he much lamenteth the Seperation and rent between the Protestants and Rome with the continuance of it although with the Iesuite he confesse that errour in Faith is just cause of separation And whereas he the same Relator doth cunningly yet palpably enough in sundry passages of his Booke as also he hath openly done viva voce at the High-Commission-Board exclude all the Reformed Protestant Churches beyond the Seaes as no Churches of Christ as not admitting the Hierarchy Finally also in his Book quipping Luther and in him all the Reformed Churches as having made a rent not onely from Rome with her corruptions but even from the Catholick Church it selfe which indeed in the Relators sense and difinition of the Catholicke Church is most true to wit from the universall Hierarchy And whereas he the Relator doth every where highly extoll his Ceremonies in Gods worship as without which he saith there is no light left to shine before men that they may see his Devotion and so glorify GOD therein most foulely and odiously perverting and abusing the holy Text of Scripture uttered by CHRIST to a cleane other purpose as the Replyer hath noted all which Ceremonies being a will-worship after the Tradition and Commandement of men the Apostle doth utterly condemn as wherby the very merits of Christs death are made of none effect who in his death destroyed All Ceremonies in Religion obliging the Conscience and not onely the Leviticâ—ll but all other whatsoever of humane Ordinance as the Replyer clearely proveth So as it is not left to any Power on Earth to impose the least Ceremony yea though it be of nature indifferent to bind the Conscience in the service of GOD seeing all such imposition is Antichristian Tyranny And whereas all Prelaticall Hereticall and Antichristian Faction erected by the Prince of darkenesse against Iesus Christ and his Kingdome as is apparent both by their profession and practice wherein they have nothing at all yea not any one thing to show wherein they resemble either Christ or any one of his Apostles except Iudas Christs Kingdome being altogether spirituall and not of this world but the Hierarchy a meere carnall and worldly Kingdome onely guilded over with the bare name of spirituall And whereas the Relator throughout his whole Booke bewrayeth his most palpable and profound ignorance and notorious blindnesse in the whole mystery of Faith and all true divinity in so much as when ever he Cites Scripture he still perverts it to a wrong sense and is not able to bring any proofe either from Scripture or Common Reason except from some of his Jesuiticall Authors for any of his Paradoxes and strange doctrines delivering all without Book tanquam è Cathedra as but of some Papall unerring Chaire upon the Authority of his bare word and upon meere trust And whereas the Relator saith That worth once misled is of all other the greatest misleader and who of greater worth in the Church of England and in the Esteem of Great ones too then the Great Primate himselfe whose very word with many is taken as a divine Oracle So as if the Church and State of England will but pin their soules upon this Leaders sleeve he will not fayle to lead them in that way the issue whereof seem it never so right in the eyes of credulity will certainly prove to be as Solomon saith the wayes of death And whereas by the Relator sundry occasions are ministred to the Replyer of instancing divers practises charged upon the Prelate as the principall Agent or Instrument of setting up sundry Innovations in Religion in the Church of England all which have been done under his Primacie as The republishing under your Majesties Name the Book for liberty of profane Sports on the Lords day with pressing Ministers to read the Sayd Book in their severall Congregations and upon refusall extreamely persecuting them and thrusting them from their Ministry and meanes with their poore wives and children The authorizing and licencing of some Doctors Books which cry down the Morality of the 4 th Commandement for the Sanctifying of the Lords Sabbath day The setting forth of a New Order to restraine Preachers from Preaching in the Afternoones on the Lords dayes much pressed by the Prelates and their Officers in all their visitations The setting forth of a Declaration in your Majesties Name prefixed to the Articles of Religion which the Prelates practises plainly interpret to be for the restraining and prohibiting altogether the Doctrines of Saving Grace to be preached and wherein the genuine sense of those Articles touching Grace which formerly were universally interpreted to have but one sence agreeable to the Scripture is confounded with the heterodox hereticall doctrines of the Pelagians and Arminians so as none can tell what to make of those Articles saving that by this meanes the Orthodox Ministers must not preach the truth and the Adverse party and Faction may find footing and countenance for their groundlesse and gracelesse heresies and all this to the manifest
because they are seperated from the Church of Rome and from all Prelacy and Hierarchy we do exclude you and Rome with your Prelaticall and Hierarchicall Churches and Government Ecclesiasticall from being any true Churches of Iesus Christ. And whereas you say Rome was once Right and Orthodox 't is true that in Pauls time the faith of those Christian Romans was famous throughout the world and so it might continue pure for a time after but when once the Prelacie and Hierarchy of Rome and that but within Romes Diocesse was erected it became Ipso facto Antichristian and after when the Bishop of Rome became supream over all Christendome then it was the Church of Antichrist from which it is necessary for all true Christians to make a perpetuall Seperation L. p. 133. The Roman Church which was once Right is now become wrong by imbracing superstition and error P. Such is your stile to touch that delicate Woman tenderly as saying She is now wrong by imbracing superstition and error But not by defiling her selfe with abominable Idolatries This you never once charge her with in all your Book as we shall see more at after And onely error as humanum est errare but you never tell her of her Heresies and Apostacie from Christ and her Doctrines of Devils Beware of that You have therfore put me to the greater paines in dealing plainly both with her and you L. ibid. 'T is too true indeed that there is a miserable rent in the Church and I make no question but the best men do most bemâ—ane it nor is he a Christian that would not have unity might he have it with Truth P. You are often putting your finger into this scarre or rent An Argument it paines you because ubi dolor ibi digitus And I am perswaded the more you put your finger in it the wider you will make it And certainly those that are indeed the best men are so farre from bemoaning such a rent as they rejoyce in it the cause considered as in their glory and safety And such Christians as have the greatest wisdome tempered with their goodnesse do see such an Impossibility of Reconciliation with Rome that they account it the greatest folly in the world once to dreame of such an unity as is coupled with a condition of Truth I mean Truth indeed not such a Truth as you mean there where nothing but superstition and error Idolatry and Infidelity Hypocrisie and Iniquity Ambition and Avarice Pompe and Pleasure are the onely supporters of Peters Infallible but counterfeit Chaire Unlesse you mean as you must doe those good men which are your Confederates in your Idolatrous Altars and other Superstitions and Idolatries halting between two opinions God and Baal and have already one foot over Romes thresholdâ— accounting themselves with your Church of England one and the same Church with Rome as two branches of the same tree as two Sisters of the same venter ready to salute each other with the kisse of amity and unity as Aâ—ab did his Brother Bâ—nhâ—daâ— then much may be what should hinder your unity And for your Truth as we sayd before we know very well what it is Rome will not want for that which you call Truth L. ibid. But I never said nor thought that the Protestants made this rent P. I pray you do you think as you speake But admit it Why should you think so Or why are you so zealous in makeing such an Apology which true Protestants indeed will never thank you for But you are such a Protestant as I dare say would not have been the first that should have made the rent no nor the hindmost neither so firme you are for peace But I noted before a necessity of Seperation to be made by the Protestants from Rome as Christ admonisheth Rev. 18.4 Come out of her my people c. L. p. 135. He must leave my words to my selfe and their sense either to me or to the genuine construction which an Ingenious Reader can make of them P. 'T were well If you would observe the same Law your selfe to others Then you would not so frequently as you doe make a poore Minister an offender for a word and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate and turn aside the just for a thing of nought as the Prophet speaks L. ibid. The Protestants did not get that name by protesting against the Church of Rome but by protesting and that when nothing else would serve against her errors and superstitions Do you but remove them from the Church of Rome and our Protestation is ended and the Seperation too P. Yes by protesting against the very Church of Rome got they and that deservedly the name of Protestants For were not those errors and superstions you speake of yea and Antichristianisme and abominable Idolatries and universall Apostacie become the very body and soule of the Religion faith and practise of that Church Was not your Dalilah the Church of Rome become that Harlot and Mother of whoredomes and all abominations before the Seperation and rent was made Could they then protest against her corruptions and not withall against her selfe Were not all her corruption so incorporated unto her as they were altogether inseperable from her like the Blackamores skin or the Leopards spots which cannot be changed And do not you confesse that they protested against her Corruptions when nothing els would serve when there was no remedy left when she was grown incorrigible So as they might have said as in the Prophet we would have healed Babylon but she is not healed Forsake her and let us goe every one into his own Countrey for her judgement reacheth unto heaven and is lifted up even to the Skies It applyes it selfe And my Lord you speake too late and in vain to A.C. to remove Romes errors and superstition A C. is not of the Faith to remove such mountaines He cannot wâ—sh the Blackmore white You must procure such a Generall Councel as is at least equall to that of Trent to reverse all those Decrees whereby all Romes superstitions and errors are so ratified as England will sooner heare of a Parliament for Reformation then Rome will indure the thoughts of any more Generall Councels to question or meddle with her Trent Decrees Rome is now setled upon her lees and you shall sooner remove the City of Rome it selfe from her muddy Tiber then the Church of Rome from her superstitions Nor is the black skin more conaturall to the Ethiopian nor spots to the Leopard then Idolatry Superstition Infidelity Apostacie and all error is conaturall to the Beast with seaven heads and ten hornes as making up both the Complexion and Constitution of that painted Whore And therefore you might have saved all this labour in vain in writing such a Volume out of a hope to worke an unity with Rome when her superstitions and errors shal be removed and that is ad Graecas Calendas
when men sheere their Goates so in this respect you may safely say That when Romes errours and Superstitions are removed our Protestations and Seperation is ended And so may I. L p. 136. Protestants doe but protest the sincerity of their Faith against the Doctrinall corruption which hath invaded the great Sacrament of the Eucharist and other parts of Religion P. Well were it for you and your present Church of England as you have lately made it or would at least make it if you had such sincerity of Faith to protest against Romes doctrinall corruptions as true Protestants have But why doe you call the Lords supper The Great Sacrament of the Eucharist Is it Great because you give it a Name not known in Scripture Or because it is so grandized in the Church of Rome as it is made like the Great Diana of the Ephesians whom all the Pontifician world worshipeth Or it is Great comparatively to Baptisme because this is celebrated in the Font at the Church doore neere the Belfrey and That upon your high Altar which you have advanced at the chiefe as you esteem it and East end af your Chancels and of your stately Cathedrals Or Great because in your Devotion you bow towards that place whence it seems you look for your help yea so lowly fall down and worship before it as before the Lord your maker Or what is it that your Eucharist is become with you so Great a Sacrament Because it or your selfe is Great with Child of a young new God-Almighty But however For my part I reverence every Ordinance of God but I dare not make nor esteem them greater then God hath made them nor give them other Names and Titles then God hath given them least I either seem to be wiser then my Maker and their Author or should give more honour to them then is due this being as wofull experience hath taught the ready way to rob God of his honour to transferre it to the creature and set it up instead of God But loth you are I know to call the Sacrament the Lords Supper as the Scripture calls it least it might call for the Lords Table as the Scripture also terms it and so your high Altar should have no more Room in the Church But doe the true Protestants protest the sincerity of their Faith onely against the Doctrinall Faith which hath invaded your Great Sacrament of the Eucharist Yes you adde and other parts of Religion What be those That we may know those speciall Doctrinall Corruptions against which you say Protestants do protest the sincerity of their Faith For Rome hath many Doctrinall Corruptions against which true Protestants protest which you do not so much as mention in all your Book and such too as do â—â—atly overthrow the Foundation Christ. As Iustification by works for one which we have touched before Yea and Rome hath many and those most damnable corruptions which you are so farre from accounting corruptions as you make them Essentiall parts of Gods worship I name Altars for one Of which also before And these things we Protestants protest the sincerity of our Faith against But you are none of those Protestants as not professing much lesse protesting the sincerity of any such Faith L p. 138. A right sober man may without the least touch of insolence or madnesse dispute a businesse of Religion with the Roman either Church or Prelate as all men know Irenaeus did with Victor so it be with modesty and for the finding out or confirming of truth free from vanity and purposed opposition against even a particular Church P. This passage I cited before in my Preface to your Lordship yet I here recite it again because perhaps all wil be little enough to put you in mind therof For as I told you before the Greatnesse of the Cause hath caused my stile and Spirit to mount upon the wings of zeale for my Christ and for his Church in a higher degree and strain then ordinary And that for this you Censure me of insolence or madnesse as I feare it wil be the best defence you can make for your Cause alwayes excepted the Bill in Starre-Chamber I have no remedy but patience committing the Cause to him that judgeth rightly And as I have done it for the finding out of the truth so this hath caused me a great deale of moyle in digging and removing away a masse of earth and rubbedge which you had cast to hide this Treasure from us So as a purposed opposition was not it that set me upon this Great taske but yet I oppose you and purpose to detect your falsities so fairly guilded over with hypocrisie that you might not impose too much upon your Credulous Reader You aledge for this purpose the Example of Irenaeus arguing a Case with Victor Bishop of Rome which you say all men know But my Lord I suppose all men do not know it And because it is a matter both worthy and not unnecessary for all men to know it I will take occasion here to speake somthing of it as not impertinent also to our present purpose Towards the end of the second Century there was a difference between the Asian Church and the Roman about the Day of Celebrating the memory of the Lords Resurrection The contention grew hot as commonly men are most eagre in propounding their own devises in matter of Religion so as because the Asian Churches would not conforme to Victor Bishop of Rome he began to fume and to thunder and threaten them all with Excommunication Irenaeus who lived in France for this reproves Victor telling him that he ought not to proceed and deale so with Asian Churches for such differences as were of things at that time accounted Indifferent Some saith he fast one day before Easter some two some more some 40. houres together whereupon by the way it seems that those 40. houres were afterwards turned into forty dayes for your Lent Fast kaì cudèn élatton pà ntes oâ—uioi eirteneusà n tè kaì eireneúomen pròs alluious yet neverthelesse saith he all these lived peaceably together and we also are at peace one with another Kaì he diaphonìn tes nesteÃas tèn homónoian tes pÃstâ—os sunistesi And this difference about Fasting commendeth saith he the unity of Faith And he relates unto him also the examples of sundry of his Predecessors in the Sea of Rome who neither kept it themselves nor command of it to others and yet neverthelesse they that observed it not were at peace with those that came to them from the neighbour Churches or Congregations wherein it was observed Nor were any at any time cast out of the Church about the Manner or Custome But those Presbyters saith he who before you observed it not sent Commendations or kind salutations and greetings as tokens of Charity to those of other neighbouring Churches who did observe it And blessed Polycarpus sojourning at Rome in the time of
Conscience Whether the High-Priest Azariah did transgresse or no when King Vzziah in the Temple burnt Incense on the Altar he with fourescore Priests of the Lord that were valient men went in after the King and withstood him saying It perteameth not unto thee Vzziah to burn Incense unto the Lord but to the Priests c. Loe here was a withstanding the King But I will not presse you for your Judgement for I find in the next verse Gods own Judgement of the Case for Vzziah with the Censer in his hand being incensed even while he was wroth with the Priests the leprosie even rose up in his forehead before the Priests in the house of the Lord from beside the Incense-Altar And Azariah the Chiefe Priest and all the Priests looked upon him and behold he was leprous in his forehead and they thrust him out from thence yea he himselfe hasted also to goe out because the Lord had smitten him And Vzziah the King was a Leper unto the day of his death and dwelt in a severall house being a Leper for he was cut off from the house of the Lord and Iotham the Kings son was over the Kings house judging the people of the Land Now to apply this to the present purpose You make your self as the High-Priest of the Church of England Now suppose the King of England should doe that whereby the foundations of Faith and good Manners were shaken what would your Lordship doe I aske not what you would doe in case you should be the Chiefe Agent and Instrument a Counceller a Promoter and a Contriver of such a thing For then it were a vaine Question But suppose you had no hand nor head in it at all and were a man zealous of Gods glory and truly pious and found in the faith and one that knew well what the foundations of Faith and good Manners are and when they are shaken and one that respected more the Kings good and Honour then your own private ends and more Christs Kingdome then any Hierarchy or spirituall-Temporall Principality on Earth and one that loved more to speake the Truth to Kings though you were sure of displeasure then to flatter and speake pleasing things to the ruine of the State and Kingdome though for the present it pleased suppose I say all this for even impossibilities may be supposed then tell me what your selfe a man of such high Place and Grace in Court and of so great Power to perswade and disswade would doe when you should see the Foundations of Faith and good Manners to be shaken by the King or supreme Magistrate For the very Name of shaking the Foundations of Faith and good Manners is enough to shake a Mans heart and cause him to abhorre the very thought of it if he were not either altogether senselesse and ignorant what the Foundations of Faith and Good Manners do meane or knowing them were not either an open or secret enemy unto them For what is such a shaking but a mâ—king way for the sodaine precipitation of the state of all things into inevitable Destruction a dissepating of all humane society a mingling of heaven and earth together in one Chaos of all Confusion And therfore now that we are upon a point of such Moment as it were the Center wheron the worlds Globe is pitched or as the two Pillars in Solomons Temple Iâ—chin and Boas stability and strength Faith and good Manners being the stability and strength of all true Religion of humane society and Civil Politie it wil be worth our Inquiry a little what it is to shake these Foundations or when these Foundations are shaken And it is possible that these Foundations may at this very time be shaken in the Church and state of England and so threaten if not hasten Ruine in somuch as a speedy remedy for prevention upon the discovery may be required You will say God forbid What God forbid that in such a Case a speedy remedy should be used No not so by your leave Well what say you then to your Articles of Religion wherein the Doctrines of Faith of the Church of England and those of them that are according to the expresse Scriptures as Gods Grace in Election Predestination Salvation c. are shaken Are they not shaken and that terribly too by an Edict or Declaration so as they doe at the least nutare et huc illuc fâ—luctuare so reele too and â—ro like a drunken man as no sober man knows to which side they will fall And are not those Doctrines of Gods free and saving Grace in Christ the foundations of Faith which are contained in those Articles Can you deny this Again what say you to the Two Tables wherein are contained the Ten Commandements of Gods Morall Law Are they not also Foundations Yea and Foundations both of Faith and Good Manners For the Foure Commandements of the First Table concern Faith and Religion the Six of the Second Good Manners So much all confesse and your selfe too And you say Emperours and Kings are Cussodes utriusque Tabulae They to whom the Custody and preservation of both Tables of the Law for worship to God and duty to man are commited And That a Booke of the Law was by Gods own command in Moses his time to be given to the King Deut. 17.18 So you Is it so then What say you then to those two Great Commandements the Last of the First Table and the First of the Second Do they not stand closse together as those two formentioned Pillars in Solomons Temple Iachin and Boaz Is not holy Obedience to God in his worship on his own day as Iachin the stability of the the Church and Temple of God And is not Civil subjection to superiours as Boaz the strength of the Common-wealth So as when these two Commandements are shaken are not two maine Pillars and Foundations of Faith and good Manners shaken and so the Foundations both of Church and Common-wealâ—h shaken What say you to this ô Great High Priest Is it true or no For I must now put you to it You give just occasion But you answere nothing siâ—ence in this Case is consent and such as proceeds frâ—m guilt of Conscience And how ever Res ipsa clamat The thing it selfe proclaimes it and cleare evidence proves it For doth not the Edict for Sports so often upon fresh occasions mentioned declare as much And doth it not shake the Fourth Commandement for the sanctification of the Lords Day the Lords Sabbath-Day Which Dispensation of such profane and madde sports can it consist with sanctification or any holinesse or common sobriety of a Christian or with Christian Profession or with our Baptismall vow to the Contrary much lesse with the direct and expresse immediate solemn sanctification of that day commanded in that Fourth Commandement Is not here then a Foundation of Religion and so also of Good Manners too shaken For what Good Manners doth our May-pole-dances and
answered Tamen Romanus est yet he is a Romanist And this Romanist is like the Colloquintida in the pot of pottage of which the young Prophets said to Elizeus Ther 's death in the pot Or like the flye in the Apothecaries box of oyntment it marres and corrupts the whole oyntment And a man may say of your Roman Christians or Christian Romanist which you will as one said of a wicked Prelate who was also a Temporall Prince as you be when he gloryed of his greatnesse as being both a Prelate and a Prince or Earle What shalbecome of the Bishop when the Earle is in hell So what shal become of your Romanist as a Christian when your Christian as a Romanist is in hell L. p. ibid I am willing to hope there are many among them which kâ—ep within the Church and yet wish the Superstitions abolished which they know and which pray to God to forgive their errours in what they know not and which hold the foundation firme and live accordingly and would have all things amended that are amisse were it in their power And to such I dare not deny a possibility of Salvation for that which is Christs in them though they hazzard themselves extremely by keeping so closse to that which is Superstition and in the case of Images comes too neare to Idolatry P. Your Hope and Charity may be much but in this can doe but little But 't is possible that some may keep within the Confines of that Church-Dominions and more powerfull Principality and yet not be of that Church as those seven thousand in Israel forementioned Of such if any such there be we may well hope of their salvation although they cannot live in those places where Popery beares sway but with much danger to their bodies and estates and some to their soules too As I perswade my selfe for all your diligent Inquisition and hunting with your Hounds Beagles and Prosecutions or if you will persecutions in your High Commission and other spirituall Coâ—ts there are many poore honest soules in England that truly feare God and abhorre your superstitions and oppressions but in regard of their bodies and estates cannot be but in dayly danger of falling into your Lyons denne if but once detected But for others who are sensible of your Tyrannicall yoake and groane under the burthens of your superstitions and Ceremonies yet have not the heart and courage of the spirit of Christ to with-draw their necks but indure all your bondage so they may injoy the fleshpots of Aegipt however they may wish to be free yet you know the Proverbe Wishers and Woulders And so of those in the Church of Rome some Errours some may see and be sensible of them and wish them removed but in the mean time will they nill they they must undergoe them and that even against their Conscience so as me thinks this should somwhat abate and snibbe your willingnesse to hope of any possibility of salvation for such as against their Conscience and for worldly respects live in known errour Nor can he possibly avoyd it so long as he lives in and of that Church For as Solomon saith Can a man take fire in his bosome and not be burnt Can one goe upon hot coales and his feet not be burnt so who so toucheth a whorish woman shall not be innocent Now he that lives in and of the Romish Church lives in the whores bosome and is a member of the whore And perhaps many a one feeling how hot the bosome is wisheth he were out of it but hath not the Power being as Solomon saith plunged into a deep pit The mouth of a strange Woman is a deep pit he that is abhorred of the Lord shall fall therin And once in 't is hard getting out Nor all a mans wishing will doe it But say you he prayes to God to forgive him his Errours that he knows not What then Is he the nearer salvation when he still lives in the errour that he knows and onely wisheth to be amended And doth not many a man live in a known sinne as whoredome or drunkennesse or the like and being convinced of the foulenesse of it and the many evils it brings upon him wishes he could leave it and prayes God to forgive him and yet lives in it still Is he ever the neare to mercy Nay he is the further off as being habituated and hardened in his sin known sin wherein he lives unpenitently Wheras Solomon saith He that confesseth and forsaketh his sins shall have mercy But he that hideth his sins shall not prosper And you here bring some Papist in confessing the errours which he knows not as praying God to forgive them but never a word of his confessing and praying God to forgive those errours which he knows and wherein he lives So here is a hiding of his known errours But it were too grosse to bring him in confessing and deprecating God for his known errours wherein he still liveth and though he wish them amended in the Church of Rome yet amends them not himselfe nor doe you tell us that he doth so much as wish them amended in himselfe and therfore you prudently forbeare the mention of any such thing as his praying to have his known errours forgiven For that should put a man into a desperate case shuting him out of all hope and possibility of salvation to mock God to his face in praying to have those Errours and sins forgiven him in which against his Conscience he both liveth and resolveth no other though he wisheth but to dye But yet say you such hold the foundation Christ. How As they that held him fast when they crucified him For such as live in known sin and errour they as the Apostle saith * crucifie to themselves the Son of God afresh and put him to an open shame Such holding of Christ is not to hold him as a foundation but to overthrow the foundation For Christ dyed not to hold to deliver us from the punishment of sin but from the guilt and dominion of sin by working in us Faith and Repentance So as to professe Christ and to want these yea to live in known sin and errour onely with a faint wishing of amendment is not to hold the foundation Christ but to make him a false foundation as if he were a Saviour of such as so live in known sin and errour as they resolve no other but to live and dye in it And we have proved before that Romes Religion quite overthrows the foundation Christ so as none living and dying in the Faith of that Church can be saved and the more he knows it and yet lives in it the greater is his damnation though he wish never so much to have the errour amended But you say Christ hath a part in them I answere with the Apostle The Foundation of God stands sure and hath this seale The Lord knoweth them that are his and
that day or any other day but admonishing Christians to abhore them as Heathenish and is this the faith and practise of the present Church of England at this day wherein you resolve to live and dye Fourthly The Apostles and ancient Primitive Church in their dayes taught held and professed all chose excellent saving Doctrines of Election Predestination Redemption of the Elect their Effectuall vocation and conversation by Gods saving and Omnipotent Grace their assurance of Salvation by Faith and their certaine perseverance in Grace unto Glory and none of these Doctrines were forbid to Ministers to be preached but they were commanded of God to declare the whole Councel of God to his people Is this your faith and practise of the Church of England wherein you resolve to live and dye Fiftly The Apostles and the ancient Primitive Church in their dayes taught professed and practised that Discipline which was according to Christ forbidding all wâ—ll-worship and imposition of humane Ordinances as snares upon mens Consciences whereby that Christian liberty is overthrowne which Christ purchased for his people with his own blood Is this the Faith which you and the present Church of England professeth and practiseth and wherein you resolve to live and dye Sixtly The Apostles and the ancient Primitive Church in their time condemned the forbidding of Marriage and of Meates as a Doctrine of Devils taught by seducing spâ—riâ—s and a departing from the faith of Christ Is this that faith and Religion which you and the present Church of England hold professe and practise and wherein you resolve to live and dye O ye Prelates O thou Church of England blush and be ashamed of that Faith Profession and Practise of yours so 〈◊〉 contrary to that Faith which the holy Apostles taught and that pure and Primitive Church in their times imbraced and professed and be not so desperately bent as being so clearly convinced of these thy foule practises to professe and vow notwithstanding to live and dye in them least herein your condition prove as it must doe infinitly more desperate and damnable then that of the Jesuites themselves whose knowledge by your own confession of their wicked and damnable Fâ—â—ours with their obstinate persisting in them and resâ—sting the truth yea even the Holy Ghosts Testimony therein leaves them as without excuse so without all hope of salvation as to whom nothing remaines as the Apostle upon the like occasion saith but a fearefull expectation of Iudgement and of fiery indignation which shall devour the Adversaries L. p. 338. Yea but he saith againe That I acknowledge there is but one Saving Faith and that the Lady might be saved in the Roman Faith which was all the Iesuite tooke upon his soule Why but iâ— this be all I will confesse it againe The first that there is but one Faith I confesse with St. Paul Eph. 4. And the other That the Lady might be saved in the Roman faith or Church I confesse with that Charity which St. Paul teacheth me namely to leave all men especially the weaker sex and sort which hold the foundation to stand or fall to their own Master Rom. 14.4 And this is no mistaken Charity P. This you confesse that as there is but one saving faith so this faith is in the Church of Rome as in and by which the Lady may be saved And of this one faith with the Church of Rome you and your Church of England are if you hope to be saved with Rome by her saving faith This is the All and summe of your Confession Now we have clearly proved before that the faith of the Church of Rome is not that one saving faith of Gods Saints and Elect which the Scripture every where speaks of For first Romes faith is in its kind and nature and that by their own confession a dead faith but the saving faith is a living faith Secondly they confesse that with their faith they may goe to hell as they say of their Fidâ—les Fornicarii Adulteri c. therfore Romes faith is no saving faith for the saving faith is so called because it effectually perfectly and certainly saveth all those that have it as Christ saith Joh. 5.24 Thirdly The Romish â—aith is a doubting wavering uncertaine faith or raâ—her opinionâ— and wan hope as the Councel of Trent defineth accuâ—sing certainâ—y of beleeving whereas the saving faith is a certainâ— assurance and cleare evidence a plerophoria as Heb 10.22 Rom. 4 21.â— a full assurance or perswasiâ—n in the truth of beleeving though not in fullnesse of degrees of perfection in all and at all times the operation of it being many times hindered by corruptions and infirmities of the flesh and manifold temptations Fourthly Romes faith is and may be without hope and charity but true saving faith is never without hope and charity for it is the sure foundation of things hoped for and it worketh by Love Fifty The Roman faith is not the Iustifying faith for the Councel of Trent saith Faith justifieth not till Hope and Charity come to it and then all 3 together and that as inherent Graces and works in us do justifie whereas true saving faith is therfore called the Iustifying faith because it is that onely Grace whereby as an Instrument applying Christ and his righteousnesse and not as works in us the beleeving sinner is justified Rom. 3.28 so as though this saving justifying faith be never without hope and charity no more then fire is without light and heat yet hope and charity have no hand at all with faith in justification so as not even faith it selfe as it is a Grace inherent with hope and charity doth justifie but onely as it is considered as a hand or instrument applying Christ as before But the Roman Faith as the Councel of Trent confesseth justifieth not as an instrument or hand applying Christ whereby his Righteousnesse is of God imputed to the beleever which Imputation the Councel in plain termes accurseth but onely as a Grace and worke inherent with hope and charity Sixtly saving faith is not onely a justifying faith whereby we stand righteous in Gods sight having Christs Righteousnesse imputed but also a sanctifying faith as Act. 26.18 called therfore a holy Faith Jude 20. as wherby a man is regenerate borne againe made a member of Christ and partaker of his Spirit and lives and dyes in holinesse but the Roman Faith doth not sanctifie for they confesse that wicked ungodly and profane persons may have it and goe to hell with it as before Lastly saving and justifying faith is a spirituall worke and gift of Grace wrought in the soule by the spirit of God and it is his sole worke without the concurrence or mans Will which is not free untill Grace hath given it both life and freedome but the Roman Faith is confessed by them in the Councel of Trent not to be a meere worke of Grace nor at all of sanctifying and saving Grace
before all the world and therefore that the Reply be published And if it shall be thought fit to be dedicated to the King I wish that mine own hand might present it For to say no more how highly doth the Cause concerne the King and his Kingdome did he but truely know it And how he should come to know it but this way I know not And I hope his Majestie will not refuse it at Charities hand I have said Mother Zeale what sayst thou Zeale Deare Mother can we see our God so highly dishonoured our Christ so belyed his Spirit so despised his Word so disparaged his Worship so depraved his Saints so destroyed his true Spouse unchurched and excommunicated out of the Creed and a false Church fasle Faith false Religion false Gods set up in Christs Throne to be Judges in matters of Faith and proud men to usurpe over the Consciences and Soules of his people and the like and are we not to set a worke all the irons in the fire that may be to arme us against such an all-daring Philistin who dare so desperately defie the Hosts of the living God And blessed be our God who hath raised up and inabled such a Replyer and blessed be the Replyer who ever he be that takes up Davids sting and stone to throw at that Gyant-like Mushrumme And were there an hundred such Replyes let them all be published and all be presented to the King to the confusion of all Babell-builders or Ierecho's rebuilders And if men will willfully close their eyes and stop their eares against the Truth at their perill be it I have sayd Mother Humility what sayst thou Humility Deare Mother I humbly pray that the Reply be published and if my Sister Charity doe present it to the King all my ambition is to waight upon her as her hand-maid to beare up the Traine of her manyfold sin-covering Mantle This is all I can doe or say Mother Prudence what sayst thou Prudence Deare Mother although I accord with all that my Sisters have here said yet seeing it pleaseth you to impose this taske upon me I shall give you a faithfull and just account what I further conceive to be not altogether unworthy our serious consideration about the dedicating and presenting the Reply to the King First we all know what reward others have had for the like service and that of fresh memory as a Minister appealing from the Prelates to the King for a just and equall hearing of his Cause which was about the discharge of his Ministry in Preaching was delivered over to the Censure of a Court wherein his maine Adversary sate a Judge and the Censure was accordingly so terrible as no age can parallell And Secondly the same Adversary that was the Prime instigator to inflict the said Censure continues still in the same power and favour in Court so as if my Sister Charity her selfe together with Humility should present the Reply I know not what security she can have from the like Censure of being both Schismaticall and Seditious because she thus appeares against a most notorious Adversary of CHRIST and his Word but such whose power and favour in Court can so farre prevaile to the abusing of the sweet and unsuspicious nature of Princes as to make them beleeve that they cannot possibly be misled by such a Leader although the Prelate himselfe confesse that Worth once misled proves of all other the greatest Misleader and the Replyer hath detected and proved him the most notorious blind Leader that ever sate in Canterbury Chaire And Thirdly who sees not the maine worke that so many arrowes of persecution against Gods Ministers and people and so the Gospell it selfe as appeares too palpably by the Prelates usuall practises doe ayme at As namely the rooting out of the Gospell and the erecting of all Popish Superstition and Idolatry and so the bringing in of Atheisme and Infidelity with Antichristian Tyranny and all to reduce England to a Reconciliation with Rome as also the Relation it selfe doth unblushingly discover And the Merchants doe tell us from abroad how the Priests and Fryers can tell them upon occasion of the Scots first standing out that this course was by the Prelaticall Faction reaching as farre as Rome resolved on before yesterday And Fourthly when we looke upon the hideous outrages of the Prelates against which no complaint can take place nor find better successe then as when a man casts stones upward which fall down againe upon his own head doth it not argue the Estate of things to be desperate and at the height when such men as the Prelates are mounted on a throne of iniquity framing mischiefe as by a Law But yet Lastly notwithstanding all this when I consider how mercifully God hath heard the earnest prayers of his people in moving the Kings heart to such an accord with Scotland as of late although those bitter Roots which GOD never planted and which poâ—son the very ground they goe on the Prelates I meane so fast are they rooted in the earth are left still unplucked up and that the Kings heart is in the hand of the Lord as the Rivers of waters and that if he were once rightly possessed of the State of things wherein he hath been by the Prelates extreamly abused and his State exposed to the wrath of heaven we should be in good hope of Reformation so as what lawfull meanes may be most likely and probable to conduce hereunto is worth the putting in practise though full of hazzard saving that the same GOD who mightily and mercifully moved the Kings heart so farre to yeeld to his Scottish Subjects as to enjoy in a good measure the Prelates onley excepted their liberty of Conscience can also perswade him to doe as much and more for his Subjects Christs people in England And therefore my conclusion is I am so farre from Sacrificing to humane discretion or carnall reason in this point that I could be content to accompany my Sisters Charity and Humility in presenting the Reply resolving with Hester And if I perish I perish And this is all I have to say for the present Mother Piety what sayst thou Piety Deare Mother I owe a duty as to GOD principally and in the first place so to the King Gods vicegerent in the second place and therefore what may conduce to the happinesse and well-fare of the King in this kind I would for it hazzard all And I am for the pubilshing and presenting of the Reply to the King in hope he may possibly read and understand the true State of things being of such high importance as in the world there cannot be a greater And if this be not done things going on as they have done there wil be no longer abiding for us in this place I have said Mother Patience what saist thou Patience Deare Mother what your selfe and my loving Sisters here do or shall resolve of my office is to prepare my backe to beare whatsoever
Kingdome meerly Temporall 283. Their Government Oligarchicall ibid. Christs Congregations have no need of Prelates to visit them having their own lawfull Pastor to feed them 285. The Govenment of Christs Church is most perfect of all other as consisting of the 3 States of good Politie or Government to wit the Monarchiall the Aristocraticall and the Democraticall 286. Prelates Lordly Tyranny expresly condemned by Christ as Heathenish 287 to 290. 204. The Prelaticall Church in England no lesse Tryumphant then the Prelate taxeth Rome to be 290 291. 205. By the Prelates own allegation nor Kings nor Priests may doe any thing in Reformation of Religion besides Gods prescript Law 291 292. And so by his Confession implicitly where the foundation of Faith and Good Manners are shaken therein Magistrates are not to be obeyed in which respect the Prelate is shrewdly put to it in sundry instances 293 to 297. 210. The Prelate againe blasphemeth Gods Name as if a favourer of the Prelaticall practises in England 297. A blasphemous Article of Faith of the Prelates pinning upon the Church of England ibid. Prelaticall Canons yea and Papall too yoaked and equalled by the Prelate with Scriptures in Governing the Church We must not joyn in Prayer with notorious profane Hypocrites and Enemies of Christ and of his Truth 298. A speciall Prayer for the King in these perillous times ibid. King and State abused and indangered by the Prelates practises and putting forth of this his Booke ibid. The Prelate proves all his Speculations with his bare word 199. What a Polititiant he Ch. of Eng. is grown under such a Primate Prelates no visible Judges of Gods Institution proved at large against the Prelates Blasphemy 399 300 301. Prelates Canons such Law-books as wherewith Christs Law-book cannot consist but is made of none effect They are Antichristian bondage ibid. No more necessity of one Primate over all England then of one pope over All 302. A Speciall duty of Christian Magistrates ibid. 212. How uniny and certainty of Faith is preserved by the Prelates 303. 194. The Prelate makes the Scripture a blind dumb and dead Judge 303 304. Of Generall Councels sundry notable Passages scattered along his Booke and collected by the Replyer and detected to be some of them ridiculous and all of them most impious and detestable from 304 to 324. How by the Prelates Doctrine both himselfe and his Church of England are bound to worship Images and to forbeare the Cup in the Sacrament as being decreed by Generall Councels and not yet reversed by any other equall to those 312 313. The Apostles Assembly Act. 15. no Precedent for Generall Councels in after Ages to be Judges in Controversies of Faith 314 315. and therfore that example not prudently but surreptitiously taken up by the Prelaticall Church The Prelate confesseth that Generall Councels have no Authority by Christs Institution 312 313. How unlike Prelaticall Councels are to that Act. 15. whereof not only the Apostles but the Presbyters and the Brethren the People of God were the Body 313 314. How the Prelate holds the Difinitions of Generall Councels to be infallible and that there is no more question to be made of the assistance of the Holy Ghost in them then that the Holy Ghosts assistance is without errour 325 326. The Prelate boldly professeth that he absolutely maketh a Generall Councel Judge of Controversies 327. Wherein he is abolutely fallen from the Catholick Faith His sundy assertions some ridiculous some contradictorious some blasphemous some darke riddles which he propounds and leaves unresolved and can never Resolve 321 322. He is catcht fast in his own Net And the more he struggleth to unwind himselfe out the mâ—re he is intangled 213. Though the Councel of Trent were not Generall yet it is so Generall as the Decrees thereof do bind all Papists under Anathema 328. 227. Another Reason of the Prelates why a Generall Councel erring yet should stand in force namely for the peace of Christendome confuted He is content to forgoe the Truth for Peace sake 328. The Prelates Heresie in holding it a branch of Heresie to say The Church Militant is without spot or wrinckle according to Ephes. 5. confuted 329 330. The Prelate overthrows an Article of the Faith 331. The Prelates Key of Doctrine primely in the Church wherewith he shuts out Truth and lets in Errour 329. He makes it but a supposition for the Key of Doctrine to let in Truth ibid. The Prelates subtile but futile and vaine Distinction of Transubstantiation confuted 332. He makes Christs Institution not to be cleare against Transubstantiation as against Communion in one Kind Confuted fully 333 334. Romish Adoration of Images minced by the Prelate set forth by the Replyer in its full proportion and shewed to be more grosse Idolatry then that of the Heathen 334 335 336. 280. The Prelates notorious hypocrisie in confessing Images in Churches and other Romish Superstitions to have given great Scandall to many so as to drive them quite away from them detected and selfe-condemned by his practises 337 338. Will-worship in Altar-Service and the like a Service of the Devil 340 341. The Prelates hot zeale in pressing more of Romes Ceremonies makes the old justly suspected as smelling ranke 341. Ilustrated by a similitude ibid. The Prelates Ceremonies condemned by the Same Testimony which he alledgeth 343 344. the By beâ—ng put for the Maine See before 280. The Prelate stands stiffly in this That a silly ignorant Papist living and dying in the Romish Faith may thereby conforming himselfe to his Romish Religious life be saved with his Reasons his so learning of Christ and his Charity not mistaken confuted 345 to 350. That which the Prelate calls Churlishnesse in the Protestants is better then the Prelates Charity ibid. 294 295. The Prelates quoting of 3. Martyrs for the Name of Reall Presence which he would faine have to be brought in use answered 350 351 352 353. Reasons why we ought not to name the Reall Presence in the Sacrament 351. 297. The Prelate dallies with Transubstantiation Purgatory Forbearance of the Cup in saying they are Disputed or Disputable and Improbable Questions 353 354. Romes Tyranny confessed by the Prelate the Image whereof is proved to be in the Prelacy of England 356 357. How he dawbes with the Jesuites about their Salvation 357 358. 299. The Prelate contradicts himselfe and so overthrows his Faith and Charity concerning a silly Papists Salvation in Saying That as a Romanist he cannot be saved 357 358. The Prelates vaine ridiculous and absurd hope of the Salvation of some Papists living in the Church of Rome 358 to 363. The Prelates confession of the Romanists Faith crosseth his hope of their Salvation 372. The Prelate still hath a Reservation for the Salvation of his silly ignorant Papists 302. The Prelates worth misled the greatest misleader 363. The Prelates Rule 'T is safest to beleeve the Article of Christs Descent into hell as both the Churches of England
your soule the guilt of the bloud of JESUS who under Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession and so of all his Prophets Apostles and Martyrs But you will say BURTON had no such speciall mission and commission as the Prophets had No Could not you see that he was extraordinarily raysed up by GOD and by him extraordinarily assisted both in his Sermons and in his Book and in his free and undanted Spirit in his appearance and Answer before so many Terrible ones in that Court and in that fiery tryall on the Pillory and other tryalls wherein he carryed himselfe from the First to the Last with that constant magnanimity that he seemed rather a Triumphant then a Patient Can you ascribe this to any humane strength of a poore impotent Man wrastling and warring against such a dreadfull and direfull host of Adversaries and not to the sole and extraordinary support of the Spirit of Christ in him So as when being a Spectator of the Tragedy as you had been the maine Author wherein you thought to glut your eyes with such a Spectacle and to make your selfe even drunken with his bloud were you not on the contrary amazed and confounded to see a Man on the Pillory triumphing over your incomparable cruelty Did not your Conscience then at least check you and tell you that you did then Pillory Iesus Christ in his Servant as it were nayling him afresh to the Crosse and putting him to an open shame But you goe on Saying Now in the midst of these Libellous outcryes what some Divines of great note and worth in the Church of England c. 'T is no hard matter to Divine of what stamp your Notable and worthy Divines in the Church of England be But I passe them by as unsaluted it being obvious to all men what kind of Divines doe merit to be accounted of you of Note and Worth in the Church of England who are and must be either Arminian or Popish or both Flatterers and Sycophants Proud and Profane persons by which they are most noted and known and whose worth is valued according to the rate of the magnitude or multitude of their Fat Benefices Prebends Deaneries Prelacies or other dignities and according to their great Scholarship show'd in their seldome preaching in their own Cures and their curious and quaint Rhetorizing in the Court where the plainest part of the Sermon is down-right-rayling against the Puritans and the base and grosse flattering of the Court. â—ut what of these your worthy divines First they come to your Lordship Well that 's but good manners to expresse their officiousnesse though but with a complement Secondly not together but one by one not one knowing of anothers coming Every one thinking perhaps to prevent other in so notable a piece of Service and so to promerit all the thanks Well thirdly What 's the matter of this casuall or rather miraculous confluence To perswade with you to reprint this your Conference in your own name But cui bono To what purpose For it would vindicate your Reputation being generally known to be yours Now least your Lordship may run into a strong misconceit as if this strange concurrence of persons and Spirits not one knowing of anothers coming or occasion were from some Constellation of the Starres or rather from Divine Providence for your good you know your Brother of Chichester protested in his Appeale that he had never read Arminius and yet how pat did he hit upon and hold all the Arminian Points as if he had been an old Disciple of Arminius his Schoole By what Spirit trow you was this But to the point All this was to vindicate your Reputation With whom With Jesuites Certainly not with any good Christians Yet this you labour too with laying on colous enough But this Art of writing against Jesuites is now grown so stale and triviall as in these dayes it begets new Suspicions of a Popish Spirit especially when it once comes forth under the Authority or Name of Canterbury Yet haply your Divines are Astrologers observing the Constellations of the times and thereupon divining or conjecturing what fearefull events might come of it and those perhaps prognosticating and ominating little good to your Lordship upon whom they saw a generall bad and malignant Aspect to be cast might strain their wits and use their strongest reasons to perswade you to use the best meanes to prevent the worst whereof they imagined this their motion to be the best And therefore they might perhaps frame their Speech in such a like forme as this My Lord we observe abroad what discontents possesse most men against your Grace about these late Innovations in the Church as they call them and you know the Truth of Religion as they apprehend it as also the Liberty of their Consciences are with the Puritans of high estimation and men will not easily part with them especially those that be Zealous indeed as accounting them their best freeholds Such especially as acknowledge no other King over their Soules and Consciences in matters of Faith and Gods worship as we have heard them say but onely CHRIST And they have shrowd Arguments herein for themselves And you see what necessary occasions and exigents may constrain the King to call a Parliament and how farre that being a meanes to fasten and confirme the Subjects affections to his Majesty now especially upon this Defection of Scotland may draw the King to be willing to give his People contentment in permitting them that purity in Religion in Faith and Discipline which Christ and his Apostles they say have taught and left them without which they say they cannot be freed from the Yoake of Antichristian or humane Ordinance for we use but their words and how dangerous this may be to your Grace whom they have marked out as the maine Active Agent or Instrument in disturbing their peace and distracting their minds and trenching upon their said Liberty as they account it And considering how the whole Land generally groaneth under many heavy Grievances as People now adayes account Grievances as their deep Sighs do interpret their minds and of these your Honour is reputed one of the Prime Movers And however your Lorship may haply conceive that if ye be put to a pinch your Book your late Conference set forth against Fisher will prove sufficient to ward off and beat back all accusations annent Religion yet my Lord it is not put forth in your own Name they may Question whether it be yours or no and say that being namelesse you may in time disclaime it if ever you can bring your pious purpose for peace to passe And besides 't is now a long time since it was Printed and so is forgotten Wherefore our humble advise with all due Submission to your Lordships pregnant wisedome is that your Grace would revise correct and more fully expresse your selfe in some things in the said Book and so republish it in Print under
Romanist condemn you of Novelty in Doctrine And what defence have you against this charge You say She professeth the Ancient Catholick Faith Is this your best Apology for your Church of England Is profession sufficient when you are departed from the Ancient Catholick Faith And is not the Ancient Catholick Faith that which Christ and his Apostles taught and have left recorded in the Scriptures Dare you deny this Now in what particular the Romanist condemnes you for Novelty in Doctrine I know not Surely not in those wherein themselves are equally condemned I will instance in two Doctrines wherein both you and they are Apostatized and departed from the Ancient Catholick Faith in your Novelty of Doctrine The first is your Forbidding of Marriage wherein thus farre you goe with the Romanist in forbidding Marriage to all sorts of persons for certain times in the yeare in all amounting to upon 20. weeks wanting not halfe a quarter of halfe of the yeare The Second is Forbidding Certain Meates on certaine dayes and weeks in the yeare And your Zeale in the observation hereof showeth plainly that you make it a matter of Religion as the Romanist doth and not a meere civill thing as the Statute makes it Now let us see what the Adostle saith of both these for he couples them together Now the Spirit speaketh expresly that in the latter times some shall depart from the Faith giving heed to seducing Spirits and Doctrines of Devils speaking lyes in hypocrisie and commanding to abstain from Meats which GOD hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which beleeve and know the Truth For every Creature of GOD is good and nothing to be refused if it be received with thanksgiving For it is sanctified by the Word of GOD and Prayer If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things thou shalt be a good Minister of Iesus Christ nourished up in the words of Faith and good Dâ—ctrine whereunto thou hast attained So the Apostle Where we may observe these particulars First That these two Doctrines Forbidding of Marriage and certaine Meates are Doctrines of Devils Secondly they proceed from lying Spirits Thirdly they are lyes spoken in hypocrisie as if some times were more holy then Marriage it selfe which is honourable amongst all and at all times or as if some meates were holyer then other or some more uncleane then other at some times Fourthly such as teach hold and practise these Doctrines have cauterized or seared Consciences which instead of remorse glory in these Doctrines and stiffely maintain them and out of which your Prerogative Courts and other Episcopall Courts sucke no small advantage making a rich merchandise of them Fifthly That the holding of these Doctrines is a departing from the faith Apostâ—sonta tines some shall apostatise or be Apostates from the faith such as hold these Doctrines And this faith is the true ancient Catholick Faith which they depart from Sixthly These Doctrines are the markes and fruits of the last times perillous times times of Antichrist and Antichristian Apostacie and therfore they are Doctrines of Novelty Seaventhly For the truth and confirmation of all this The Spirit speaketh it expresly So as it admits of no doubting or gainsaying Eightly and lastly That it is the duty of every good Minister of Iesus Christ nourished up in the words of faith and good Doctrine to put the Bretheren in remembrance of these things So as it were to be wished that the Church of England had some good Ministers of Iesus Christ that durst and would cry out against these Doctrines of Divels practised by the Prelates and their Disciples and learned from Antichrist himselfe and upheld by his Canon Law against the expresse word of God Thus then doth not the Church of England justly lie under the Apostles sentence of condemnation for Novelty in Doctrine yea holding Doctrines of Devils and that by the expresse testimony not of Romanists but of Gods Spirit that cannot lye I could give many more instances of novelty in your Doctrine though not as yet generally professed yet practised preached and printed by Authority though if ye be charged home with it either that Book shal be burned and the Printer blamed or they will prove but private mens opinions as you say in your Book As Invocation of Saints Iustification by Charity Erection of Altars with many other Popish Doctrines as also New Arminian Heresies old Pelagianisme newly raked out of hell againe whither they had been long agoe remaunded which to entertaine and maintaine in your Church of England you have made your Articles of Religion and that by an Edict or Declaration prefixed before them to be of a dubious sense and to equivocate having a mentall Reservation of sense for the adverse party while the Orthodox imagineth the letter to be on his side and as it hath ever so been taken till you altered the case But the two former Instances shal be sufficient witnesses against you for the present that you are departed from the Ancient Catholick Faith being justly condemned of Novelty in Doctrine yea Doctrines of Divels So as here ye may have a sounder Answer to stoppe the Romanists mouth charging the Church of England with Novelty in Doctrine then to say She professeth the Ancient Catholick Faith Tell the Romanist by way of Retortion That in some things the Church of England is no more to be condemned of Novelty in Doctrine then the Church of Rome is nor altogether so much We come now to your discipline wherein the Separatist you say condemnes her the present Church of England of Antichristianisme A sore Charge and sufficient if true to seperate from you But what defence have you for this Surely you say She practiseth Church-Government as it hath been in use in All Ages and all Places where the Church of Christ hath taken any rooting both in and ever since the Apostles times and yet the Seperatist condemnes her for Antichristianisme in her Discipline Here you say something indeed and to some purpose could you make it good For to say you professe is nothing but to professe and practise that 's matter of cleare evidence And yet I say could you prove it so it were but to some purpose and not sufficient to acquit you from Antichristianisme which is the maine Point For Some things were in use even in the Apostles times and have continued ever since in all Ages and all Places too where the Church you meane of hath taken now in tract of time a deepe rooting in the Earth yea even there also where Christs true Church hath taken rooting and yet all this is no sufficient Argument or warrant for the true Church of Christ presently to imbrace them For instance The Mystery of Iniquity began to worke in the Apostles time as he affirmeth 2 Thesse 2.7 And an example hereof St. Iohn notes in his third Epistle of Diotrephes who was ambitious of Prelacie hee loved to have The
Rome What thankes the Church of England may returne you I know not But thus did not any of your Predecessors ever And have you more Charity or more Devotion then they had And for the hope in you whereof you give account to the world and your faith testified wherein you have lived and resolve to dye I will say as Ierome said to the Pelagians Sententias vestras prodidisse Superasse est The discovery of your opinions is our victory So thus to give account of your hope and testifie your faith to all the world as that wherein you have lived and resolve to dye Let 's see by your own testimony now irrevocably upon Record what to judge of you formerly namely as of one Qui cum Lacte nutricis errorem Suxisse videatur who seemeth to have sucked in Errour with his Nurses Milke As the Orator Speakes of all naturall men and what to expect of you hereafter that as you have lived a most notorious Persecuter of the truth of Christ and of his Saints So we must look for it Still so long as you live And this is our victory that we have to deale with one who is not now any longer a disguised but unmasked Enemy of the true Faith and Religion of JESUS CHRIST And however you may flatter your selfe in regard of the World and favour in Court yet if you repent not of your former life but dye as you have lived you can have neither hope nor faith in expecting Gods blessing or favour And so I passe from your Dedicatory to your Discourse as followeth THE REPLIE TO THE RELATION OF THE CONFERENCE L. p. 2. IT is very fit the People should look to the Iudgement of the Church before they be too busie with particulars But yet neither the Scripture nor any good Authority denyes them some moderate use of their own understanding and judgement especially in things familiar and evident which even ordinary Capacities may as easily understand as read And therefore some particulars a Christian may judge without depending P. What you meane by Church you have told us before namely that wherein your Church of England and that of Rome are one and the same one Prelaticall and Hierarchicall Church out of which are excluded all those Reformed Churches which neither have nor acknowledge Prelates to be of divine Institution We have also made a Say of the difficulties So as it is no difficulty to divine what Christians we are like to prove in understanding and judgement in the mystery of Faith and Salvation when we must be limited to that narrow Scantling of some moderate use of our owne understanding and Iudgement and that but in things familiar and evident to every ordinary Capacity O poore Christians that for Understanding in the Scripture must be at the allowance of Antichristian Lords who would bring into bondage Gods people by Chaining them up in Darknesse and Ignorance and doe with them as Nahash the Ammonite answered the men of Iabeth Gilead On this condition will I make a Covenant with you that I may thrust out all your right eyes and lay it for a reproach upon all Israel But the Apostle exhorts Christians Saying Be not children in understanding howbeit in malice be children but in understanding Téleio ginesthe be perfect And Leaving the Principles of the Doctrine of Christ Let us goe on unto perfection And Strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age even those who by reason of use have their Senses exercised to discerne both good and evill But you allow Christians onely some moderate use of their owne understanding and that in things familiar and evident which men of ordinary Capacities may as easily understand as read So as what they read except with the very reading they doe as easily understand it as they read it they must not meditate further of it but in what they presently upon the reading understand not they must depend upon your Churches judgement So as you would exclude your Christians from being of those blessed men of whom David Speakes which delight in the Law of the Lord and in his Law to meditate day and night You would not have them with use to exercise their wits and Senses to discerne 〈◊〉 good and evill Yea the Apostle useth a word very emphaticall diâ— tò exin by an habituall use or long custome have their Senses gegumnasmâ—na exercised the word properly signifieth such an exercise as Wrastlers or such as contend for victory doe use which is with all their might and strength being train'd up unto it by long exercise So as the Scripture doth not onely not forbid but Commands and exhorts Christians to all diligence in the Study of the Scriptures That their hearts might be comforted being knit together in love and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding to the aknowledgement of the Mystery of God as the Apostle speakes And Let the word of God dwell in you richly in all wisedome teaching and admonishing one another c. And the Bereans are Said to be dugenésteroi more noble then those of Thesselonica in that they received the word with all readinesse of mind and searched the Scriptures dayly whether those things were so which Paul taught Loe â—ere they examined Pauls Doctrine by the Scriptures they depended not upon his bare word and therefore the Holy Ghost markes them forth for men of a more noble spirit But you would have your Christians to be poore and beggerly in the knowledge of the mystery of Christ and to be so base-minded as in all things which are not obvious to every Capacity to depend meerely upon your Church-Authority and Judgement So as what you meane hereby except to bring into your Church of England the Iesuiticall blind obedience captivating the peoples senses to your Dictates that they might pinne their Salvation and Faith upon your Priests Sleeve I cannot imagine Which will appeare yet more clearely at after Againe these words of yours are in Answere to the Jesuit's words namely That it was not for the Lady or any other unlearned Persons to take upon them to judge of Particulars without depending upon the Iudgement of the true Church To which all your Answere in full is as before Wherein you easily let the Jesuite slip and run away with this that the Church of Rome is that true Church on whose Iudgement for Particulars all unlearned Persons must depend But you understand the true Church to be that wherein you told us before your Church of England and of Rome are one and the Same And so for Rome to be a true Church you plainly confesse at after But your words here may stand you in very good Stead to be a faire Item to all the Readers of your Booke not to be too busie with the Particulars of it but first to look to the Iudgement of the Church of England whose mouth you seem to be in this
your Authority and Commendation should be brought to read the Scriptures and therein should find many Prophecies and among the rest how there should come False Prophâ—ts being Wolves in Sheeps Clothing pretending holinesse but Persecuting Gods Saints pretending Religion but oppessing Gods word pretending to be Christ vicâ—royes but tyrannizing over his people and such as should Apostatise from the Faith and set up Doctrines of Devils as in abstinence from certaine Meates and Marriage at certaine times and how Christ and his Apostles were humble and despised the world being crucified unto it and how they which were proud pompous Lords claiming to be their Successors follow none of their steps neither in diligent preaching nor practise of a holy life are such Antichrists as the Scripture hath foretold and how in the last dayes perillous times should come when men should be Selfe-lovers covetous boastors proud blasphemers unholy without naturall affection implacable covenant-breakers false accusers incontinent fierce despisers of them that are good Traitors heady high-minded lovers of pleasures more then lovers of God Having a forme of Godlinesse but denying the power thereof with many other like things which when they come to compare with the State of the present times and especially of the present Church and chiefly of the Prelates themselves and shall find most of these Prophecies fulfilled in these present times they will certainly hereupon conclude that these be those last dayes and perillous times wherin these things so long agoe foretold doe clearely shew that certainly the Scriptures are the word of God The next thing I note here is that you Say a man so probably led must compare the Scripture with it selfe and other writings What other writings I pray you shall he compare the Scriptures with Shall humane writings light him a Candle to shew him the Sun shining at noon day But thus humane testimony comes in for a Second Inducer And for all your previous inducement you must still at last joyne some thing of man with Scripture Well what 's the third Ordinary Grace And this with the Authority of the present Church may beget in a man an ordinary beliefe that Scripture is the word of God As it seemes such ordinary Grace brought King Agrippa to beleeve the Prophets to be the word of God yet for all that he was but almost perswaded to become a Christian. And this Ordinary Grace is it seems that Holy Ghost which you told us of before The Fourth is morall inducement Well admit this bring him to a morall beliefe or opinion The Fifth is a reasonable perswasion by the voyce of the Church Well what theâ— After all this the Scripture gives greater and higher reasons of Credibility to it selfe then Tradition alone could give Here 's then the upshot of all as we noted before you by these steps advance the Scripture to a Credibility So as all this while you have walkt the round and gone in a Circle and end just where you began for you began at Probability and end in Credibility whereas the Scriptures were credible at least that is such as might be beleeved before you taught this new way to come to the beliefe of them So as this your Conclusion comes to just nothing Only you seem to attribute some thing to the Scripture being assisted with those other inducements wherein it surpasseth your Tradition alone Which is such a comparison and commendation as you could not devise the like to abase the Credit of the Scripture But to conclude What a Tedious Dispute you make here with the Jesuite about that which when you have done all you can will never bring a man upon any sure grounds so much as to beleeve that the Scripture is the word of God much lesse to bring him to Saving faith in Christ. But what doe I speake of Saving faith Alas that 's no worke for your pen. You are for a Scholasticall Dispute here which is so jejune and barren that many Scholasticks would hisse it out of their Schooles much more Divines out of the Divinity Schooles as indeed nothing pertaining to true Divinity but to a Spoyling through Philosophy and vaine deceit as the Apostle Speakes But the summe of all your inducements the Prime whereof must necessarily be your present Churches Authority amounts to this That men being by a bond of necessity tyed to this your Church as without which he cannot come to beleeve Scripture to be Gods word and without this beliefe no faith of Salvation and your Tradition with all other helps cannot bring a man to that beliefe when all is done the Conclusion is that according to your Tradition no man can come to be Saved So as thus by this your new Doctrines you overturne the Foundation of Faith by the very roots leaving no footing for faith to stand upon whereby a man may have any hope of Salvation But I shew'd you before a short and sure way for a man to come to this beliefe and not onely so farre as to beleeve the Scripture to be the word of God but to beleeve that he hath his part of Salvation in that word And this way is by hearing the word of God preached For Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God And this faith being the Saving faith in Christ as it apprehends all the Promises of God in the Scripture to be true and to belong to him so it comprehends the beliefe of Scripture to be the word of God And this this word of God preached and heard is that voyce of the Church of Christ or rather Christs owne voyce in the Church calling men yea and instrumentally causing Gods Spirit effectually working in and by the word to beleeve unto righteousnesse and to confesse to Salvation whatsoever is written in the Scripture to be most true as being the word of God himselfe And besides this true Christians in all ages never beleeved and Authority Tradition voyce of men simply to be any necessary prime inducement to beleeve so much as the Scriptures to be the word of God L. p. 84. That divine light which the Scripture no question hath in it self is not kindled till these helps come Thy word is a Light So David A Light Therefore it is as much a manifestation to it selfe as to other things which it shewes but still not till the Candle be lighted not till there hath been a preparing instruction what light it is till Tradition of the Church and Gods grace put to it have cleared his understanding So Tradition of the present Church is the first morall motive to beleeve P. These words confirme your former with a little illustration A divine Light here you confesse to be in the Scripture But you meane some dimme Light At the best not bright enough not sufficient to shew it selfe to be the word of God And here That Light whatever it is is not kindled till these helps come 'T is but a
that seeth the Son and beleeveth in him should have eternall life and I will raise him up at the last day Marke here This is the Fathers will his resolution his revealed councell and purpose What That every one that seeth Christ not with bodily eyes here but with the eyes of his soule being illuminated by holy knowledge and so beleeveth in him should have eternall life and Christ will raise him up in the last day Here is Mans last happinesse to which God hath revealed tâ— us in his word that he hath resolved in his councel to bring Mankind by Faith and Knowledge together and without seperation as both seeing and beleeving And this doth the Scripture every where shew unto us Wherfore did God give some Apostles and some Prophets and some Euangelists and some Pastors and Teachers but for the perfecting of the Saints for the worke of the Ministry for the edefication of the body of Christ And Col. 2.2 That their hearts might be comforted being knit together in love and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding to the acknowledgement of the Mystery of God What a high and admirable expression is here And 6.7 this is to be rooted and built up in Christ. Againe on the other side what 's the Cause and sourse of all wickednesse and infidelity superstition and Idolatry but ignorance of God and of his word As Ephes. 4.17 This I say therfore and testifie in the Lord that ye henceforth walke not as other Gentiles walkâ— in the vaâ—ity of their minds having the understanding darkened being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them because of the blindnesse of their heart c. So 1 Pet. 4.3 and Hos. 4.1 The Lord hath a controversie with the Inhabittnts of the Land because there is no truth nor mercy nor knowledge of God in the Land And vers 7. My people are destroyed for lacke of knowledge Because thou hast rejected knowledge mark it well my Lord I will also reject thee THAT THOU SHALT BE NO PRIEST TO ME. And on the other side againe The Lord saith I will give you Pastors according to mine heart which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding namely the people whom the Lord is in Covenant with But it seemeth your Priesthood standeth not with the nature and office of those Prophets which feed the people of God with knowledge and understanding You can teach the people a shorter cut to heaven and more easie for the Priest for you tell us God hath resolved to bring Mankind to blessednesse another way then by knowledge Wherin how farre you not onely dishonour but blaspheme the truth of God in Fathering such a foule and abominable lye upon him for this I leave you to that judgement which he hath revealed in his Word But you seem to doe all this in charity That the weakest among men may have their way to blessednes open A way open You meane surely the broad way and you know whither that leads and how the many such weake ones as you speake of goe in that way And broad and open your way had need to be both for the multitude of the travailers therein and for their blindnesse and for the darknesse of the way that so though both they and their guides be blind yet the way is so broad as they cannot possibly goe out of it so long as they do but follow their Nose which must be their guide for want of eyes But it may be you will alledge that saying of Augustine Indocti rapiunt regnum Caeloâ—um c. The unlearned and ignorant take by violence the Kingdome of heaven where we that be great learned Clerks are shut out Ergo the way is open for the weakest and shut against those that abuse their Learning to Gods dishonour and soules destruction But whom doth Augustine there meane by unlearned Ignorants that had no Faith nor true Religion in them Certainly ther 's no heaven for such The blind and lame come not within the fort of Sion But a true beleever may be unlettered or as they say not book learned yet not without knowledge For if he hath faith he hath a knowledge of God in Christ. And being Christs he hath the Spirit of Christ and this quickens him up â—o diligence in the use of all good meanes of saving knowledge as to heare Gods word faithfully preached for he knows Christs voyce and frequently read and conferred upon and he meditates on it his mind is much upon it as yours is of your honours and favour in Court how to keep them and he is still praying for increase of grace and faith and knowledge And my Lord many a such man I could bring that cannot a letter on the Booke that for all your seeming Learning would put you to your Trumps if your greatnesse would but descend so farre as to reason with him of the Scriptures and of Christ and so of faith and the like For there 's all his Learning And such unlearned ones they be who goe to heaven yea take it by violence as Christ saith when great Lord Prelates are shut out As Christ saith to the Pharisees The Publicans and â—arlots goe into the Kingdome of God before you for they beleeved Iohns preaching but ye when ye had seen it repented not afterwards that ye might beleeve him But you goe on in your blind way and say pag. 109. The way of knowledge was not that which God thought fittest for mans Salvation 'T is true not such a speculative knowledge as you speak of but God thought it fittest to bring men to salvation by a knowing Faith as before is shewed I will conclude this with the Apostles thunder As we said before so say I now againe if any man preach otherwise then that is delivered in Gods word let him be accursed And if the Scripture accurse him that leads the blind out of his way to which curse all the people say Amen then what curse is due to him that teacheth the blind such a way as leads to certain destruction of Soule and Body Shall not all the people say Amen to this curse L. p. 106. The Credit of the Scripture depends not upon the subservient inducing Cause that leads us to the first knowledge of the Author which leader here is the Church but upon the Author himselfe and the opinion we have of his Sufficiencie P. Doe you not make the credit of the Scripture to depend upon the Authority of the present Church when without this subservient inducing Cause you deny the possibility of beliefe that the Scripture is the word of God For you say expresly pag. 120. When I said Scriptures were Principles to be supposed I did not I could not intend they were prius cognitae known before Tradition Since I confesse every where that Tradition introduces the knowledge of them But if the credit of
the making of it That is That it is ill very ill done of those who ever they be Papists or Protestants that give just cause to continue a seperation P. Here you speake plain Papists or Protestants and why not then Protestants as well as Papists that did very ill in making the seperation as they doe ill in continuing of it But yet your meaning here may possibly be that as it was ill done of the Roman party to give the first cause of the separation so it were no lesse ill done to continue the same cause to the continuing of the Schisme You may doe well to perswade Rome to lay down all her Corruptions which the Protestants have and doe protest against her that so if the Schisme be any longâ—r continued it may then appeare to be long of the Protestants â—ut if Rome be obstinate and incorrigible in her errors you have no reason to say it is ill done on the Protestant party to continue the Schisme But it may be perhaps ill done of the Protestant Church of England notwithstanding to continue the Schisme for as it may be well done of you to sowder it againe And therfore while the case is thus in agitation and Rome maks no more hast to meet you the multitude of her impedimenta bagge and baggage and all kind of Trumpery retaining her peace and which in no sort she will part withall and so will not stirre a foot over Tiber what 's wanting on her part you will supply with all expedition dressing up her sister the Church of England in Romes fashion unto such a conformity and symphony as promiseth a making up of the maâ—ch with all faults on both sides sooner perhaps then Rome could hope for L. ibid. The Kings and the Church of England had no reason to admit of a publick Dispute with the English Romish Clergy till they should be able to shew it under the Seale or Powers of Rome That that Church will submit to a third who may be an Indifferent Iudge between us and them or to such a Generall Councel as is after mentioned P. First the English Romish Clergie are by the Laws of England Traitors and therfore to be disputed withall at Tiburne So as if you put them to shew their warrant to dispute with you under Romes seale they will require of you perhaps to shew them under Englands seale an abrogation of the Laws against them And you tell us before that the Church of England knows well that a Parliament cannot be called at all times Nor will the Powers of Rome permit their Religion to be disputed on And whom will you chuse to dispute with them some peaceable men that will not be apt to fall out with the Jesuites your Lordship being Moderator But you know Rome denyes the Rule of Faith the Scripture And Contra negantem Principia non est disputandum Who shall else be the Umpier Who the Third Who the Indifferent Iudge Could both the Churches joyntly chuse a more Indifferent Iudge then your selfe Sure Rome her selfe would nominate you before Bellarmine himselfe if he were living A Generall Councel indeed of Romish English and other Prelates might do much so you should be sure to exclude all the Protestant Reformed Churches for wranglers as Franciscus à S. Clara well adviseth And then if a Generall Councel should reconcile and compose all differences though never so erroniously yet the Error must stand till another Generall Councel shall reverse it as you tell us at after But you adde L. p. ibid. and 146. And this is an honest and I think a full Answer And without this all Disputation must end in a clamour and therfore the more publick the worse because as the Clamour is the greater so perhaps wil be the Schisme too P Nay my Lord if you stand upon termes of honesty indeed you should have nominated the Scripture for the onely sufficient and upright Iudge between you This had been honest in one that professeth but the name onely of a Protestant But for that you told us enough before whereby we understand that this point of honesty is no part of your meaning But if your Answere were not in this respect honest I must tell you neither was it full but an empty and frivolous Answere To dispute of Divinity or Religion where Scripture is not the onely Iudge is as to judge of gold by the colour without the touchstone And so he that could shew the best colour for his matter by a false light should carry it away And I may say truely without the Scripture be Iudge your disputation must needs end in a clamour where the voyce of God is of no authority But then also if Scripture should be the Iudge you might well say The more publicke the worse For it is such a light as would discover all your fallacies and so raysing a clamour of the publicke Audience when they should observe such collusion between the English Clergie and the English Romists it might breed such a detestation against all Reconciliation with Rome as would make the rent the wider and so all your labour should be in vaine And then you might use the Proverbe As good never a whit as never the better L. p. 148. That there are errorr in Doctrine and some of them such as most manifestly indanger salvation in the Church of Rome iâ— evident to them that will not shut their eyes P. To indanger Salvation is much and for you to say so much is much too and you saying so much we need not make much doubt of the truth of that you say in this Case And yet in saying so much you speake not all truth The truth is as we have proved and shall yet further That Romes Errors in Doctrine are damnable and cannot consist with salvation as is evident to those whose eyes are truly opened L. ibid. A. C. himselfe confesses that error in Doctrine of the Faith is a just cause of seperation so just as that no cause is just but that Now had I leasure to descend into particulars or will to make the rent in the Church wider 't is no hard matter to prove that the Church of Rome hath erred in the Doctrine of Faith and dangerously too And I doubt I shall afterwards descend to particulars A. C. his importunity forcing me to it P. By A. C. his canfession then the Protestants are able to justifie their seperation abundantly As for your Lordship you are so charitably and peaceably affected that you are loth upon any termes though it concerne the salvation of mens soules in such a case to speake the truth home to make the rent wider till by your Adversaries importunity I would say A. C. you be forced to it You have too tender a heart to be a Surgion when for feare least the opening of the wound make it wider you suffer it to fester inwardly It were well if you were halfe so tender hearted to the
non sinit esse sui Some secret sweetnesse in mans native home Draws him to mind it still where ere become L. Ibid. In a corrupt Time or Place 't is as necessary in Religion to deny falshood as to assert and vindicate truth Indeed this latter can hardly be well and sufficiently done but by the former an affirmative verity being ever included in the negative to a falshood P. Then I hope in a corrupt Time and Place is it not necessary in Religion to deny your falshoods and to assert and vindicate the Truth by you so undermined and oppugned And your own Words here are sufficient to leave your Deeds without excuse L. p. 157. If it be a Cause common to both parties a third must judge and that is the Scripture or if there be jealousie or doubt of the sense of the Scripture they must either both repaire to the exposition of the Primitive Church and submit to that or both call and submit to a Generall Councel P. The Scripture That 's honest as I noted before Yea and submit to and rest in that which you say not But of the Scripture the onely Judge of all Controversies we have spoken sufficiently before and so for matters of jealousie or doubt and not either to your Primitive Church or to a Generall Councel For further Answere we shall have further occasion L. p. 171. Pope Urban 2 at the Councel held at Bari in Apâ—lia accounted my Worthy Predecessor S. Augustine as his own compâ—â—â—e and said He was as the Apostolicke and Patriarch of the other world so he then turned this Iland P. As worthy as your predecessor Anselme was and though now one of Romes Saints yet he was against your Priests Marriage But perhaps therfore the more worthy And he was so holy it seems that he said he never repented him of any thing in all his life but about the eating of some Fish one time But if the Pope gave your Worthy Predecessor the Title of Apostolicke and Patriarch of the other world of England why should not the same Title descend to his successors And it seems you are not a little affected with it For you say A Primate is greater then a Metropolitan and a Patriarch then a Primate And none were above Patriarch but Pope If then you succeed Anselme in his Patriarchate of the other world you are in the next degree to succeed him that is Papa totius Orbis But how ever you glory in these titles I assure you for my part I shall ever preferre a good honest Cobler that feares God above them all For he hath an honest calling you none And you all are persecuters of them that truly feare God and so enemies of Christ. And though you would be called Apostolicke yet to be Metropolitan Primate Patriarch Pope are all swelling Titles of pride which the Apostles never knew and which Christ expresly forbids as hath been noted and will be more As followeth L. p. 175. The calling and Authority of Bishops over the Inferiour Clergy that was a thing of known use and benefit for preservation of unity and peace in the Church P. For this you cite Hierome But you omit his other words where he saith That your Diocesan Bishops for of such onely the Question is were brought in but humana praesumptione non Institutione Divina by humane Presumption not by Divine Institution or Gods Ordinance and this as men presumed in Schismata remedia for a remedy of Schisme But it proved to be Schisma magnum the Great Schisme that made up the body of Antichrist the Great Rent from Christ filling up the Mystery of Iniquity as hath been shewed And out of Ieromes Sacerdos Priest where he saith No Priest no Church you conclude in the Margent so even with him No Bishop no Church As if to be a Priest must needs be a Bishop And idid you say This was to settle in the minds of men from the very Infancy of the Christian Church as that it had not been to that time contradicted by any In the very Infancy of the Church But your Prelacy was but an Infant then and Innocent in comparison to the Giants now We shewed before how this Mystery wrought even in the Apostles times which they knockt down yet still Satan kept it afoot The use of it hath great Antiquity but the Apostles condemned it as a meere abuse and Christ as Heathenish And you talke here of use but you are not able to shew us any Authority from Scripture either from Apostolik Ordinance and Example The Apostles indeed before Christs Resurrection were blindly ambitious of being chief in Christs Kingdome and Christ told his two kinsmen Iames and Iohn They asked they knew not what and yet Mark tells us that Christ asking them what they reasoned of by the way they were ashamed to tell him as being selfe-guilty of pride and ambition and still when he had but newly told them of his Passion to be at Ierusalem they not understanding what it meant were still at it afresh who should be the chiefe but after that Christ was risen again and his holy Spirit was breathed into them then they were of another mind they never after contended who should be chiefest but rather who should be â—umblest and hoâ—yest and most painfull and faithfull in the spirituall Kingdome of Christ in the execution of their Apostolicall Charge Which argues plainly that the Prelacy is a meere carnall thing a temporall Kingdome contrary to Christs Kingdome which carnall men voyd of Christs Spirit and Grace are blindly ambitious of calling their Prelacy an Hierarchy or hoâ—y Government or Kingdome but know not what holinesse or Christs Kingdome meaneth And doe we see any men in the world of any ranke whatsoever more Lordly more proud more ambitious more covetous more profane more corrupt then those of the Hierarchy Take the best of them now in England the most learned of them have they any zeale or courage for the truth now when they see Religion and the Faith of Christ turned topsie-turvie Doe they not all seeke their own not that which is Iesus Christs And when your Chapleins gueld their Works have they any virility left in them to maintain the truth of that which they have written If their Metropolitan doe but speake the word is it not with them as in the Comedy of the Parasite Ait quis Aio Negat Nego But what say I of those Prelates that are fallen upon the very Lees and Dregges of the worst and last times Alas in the first Generall Councell of Nece under Constantine in the Infancy of the Church as you call it what hot contentions among the Prelates one against another What bundels and fardels of complaints brought they into the Councel before Constantine Enough to set all in a combustion had not the Emperour the more wisely put all their Bills and mutuall complaints in a combustion by burning them in a faire fire
then to Iudas the Standard-bearer of that troope that came to apprehend Christ for Iudas came to Christ with Hale Master and kissed him and with this kisse as by the signall given betrayed him And is not your Ordine primus by this very Character known to be Antichrist while pretending to be Apostolick and a Successor of the Apostles he doth the more easily betray Christ in his Word and Members into the hands and bands of men Object But Peter was Ordine primus What such as to avoyd confusion As a head uniting all the members and governing all the body as your Ordine primus to avoyd confusion necessarily imports Did Peter at any time convent the Apostles Was he that Ordine primus that struck the stroke and gave the Difinitive sentences in that first Generall and Apostolicall Councel Act. 15. Did not Iames determine and the whole Church assented And Gal. 2.9 Is not Iames set before Peter And was not Peter and Iohn sent by the rest of the Apostles to Samaria When was this necessity then of an Ordine primus to avoyd confusion And what confusion is avoyded this day in the Church of England by your being Ordine primus nay prim-as both in honour and Authority and Iurisdiction Have you not by that your Ordine primus brought a confusion upon Religion Upon the Doctrinall Articles Upon the Consciences and Faith of men not knowing what to beleeve or what to doe or how to live in any peace inward or outward But you thinke to shift well enough for one so long as you put an other Ordine primus before as before is noted upon whose back you may lay all your burthens So as if any thing be amisse or succeed not well you are not then the Ordine primus Lastly one thing I observe more from your Ordine primus and that is the necessity of it which say you some one must be What one soever this is whether the Patriarch of the greater world or he of the lesser or other World but Rome rather must be she there 's a necessity for this that one be Ordine primus What 's this By the necessity of this Ordine primus is brought in a necessity of your new Catholicke Militant Church consisting of the Prelacy or Hierarchy which is so one as one must be Ordine primus as generall of the whole Army as the Dragon and his Angels to warre against Michael and his Angels So as here is an indissoluble and inseparable combination and confederacy of Prelates throughout the world making up that one Militant or Malignant Church whereof one must 〈◊〉 the chiefe to order the battel that there be no disorder but that every one keep his ranke and fight in his station against the true Militant Church of Christ as was before noted L. p. 182. Let Rome reduce it selfe to the observation of Tradition Apostolicke to which it held in Irenaeus his time and I will say as he did That it will be then necessary for every Church and for the faithfull every where to agree with it P. Let Rome reduce it selfe to the rule of the Scripture in all things which the faithfull there held in Pauls time when he was prisoner yet Preacher in Rome and then I will say and wil be the first that will doe it I wil be one of the faithfull that will agree with it But for Tradition Apostolicke I know not what you meane and therfore I dare not say as you doe But still you hold with Ordine primus I am sure of it You hold fast together for your Hierarchy wherein you place the Pope your Ordine primus Which while you doe Whatsoever Tradition Apostolicke Rome shall reduce it selfe to it wil be most perillous and pernicious too for any of the faithfull to agree with it And I am sure the Hierarchy and our Ordine primus in that was no Tradition Apostolicke So for that ther 's no talke of reducing either for Romes or Canterbury And could you perswade the world to agree with with the Ordine primus at Rome then that speech of yours pag. 182. would easily take place in these our times as well as Irenaeus his time Very great reason was there in Irenaeus his time that upon any difference arising in the Faith Omnes undique fideles all the faithfull or if you will all the Churches round about should have recourse that is resort to Rome being the Imperiall City and so a Church of more powerfull Principality then any other at that time in those parts of the world But the meaning of A.C. is we must so have recourse to Rome as to submit our faith to hers And should I grant them their own sense that all the faithfull every where must agree with Rome which I may give but can never grant yet were not this saying any whit prejudiciall to us now For first here 's a powerfull Principality ascribed to the Church of Rome so you Here are many words conningly woven and packt up together that to discover your full meaning you had need to unâ—old your whole pack Now all round about Rome is a large compasse for the whole world lyes round about Rome it being also at least there the Imperiall City and so a Church of more powerfull Principality then any other which might therfore challenge resort of all unto it as to the onely Oracle for resolving all your faithfull every where in doubts of Faith Yea and if you should grant too that all must submit their faith to Rome you say it were no whit prejudiciall to us now And should you not grant it how should it agree with your necessity of having one Ordine primus For to what purpose should there be one Ordine primus to avoyd confusion iâ— to his Call Summons and Judgement all your faithfull resorting they should not rest this their faith in his Determination Otherwise how should Confusion be avoyded For then to what one Ordine primus should they goe But do you yeeld it or no You say you may give it but can never grant it I pray you whether shall your affirmative giving or your negative granting be of more force Or if you give it how do you not grant it too Yea giving is more then granting If therfore you give it you doe more then grant it But suppose you restrain it onely to Irenaeus his time Had Rome then an Infallible Oracle in the Popes brest Or was his Iudgement the more infallible because his Chaire was in the Imperiall City Or his sentence of the more credit because his Church had the more powerfull Principality Then why in all doubtfull cases of Faith should not all the faithfull in England resort to the Chaire of Canterbury as which hath the most powerfull Principality of all the Prelates in England Why should not the thresholds of your Palace be as much worne with the footsteps of those that come to your Oracle for resolution
to defend their ancient and accustomed Liberty Regiment and Laws they may not well be countod Rebells So he But this by the way But I have somthing more to say about the shaking of the Foundations of Faith and Good Manners though I mentioned it before but now upon this occasion And that is concerning Ceremonies of humane ordinance in Gods worship which being imposed upon mens Consciences is not onely a shaking of the Founâ—ation of Faith but an overthrowing of it for thereby Christ is denyed to be the onely King of his Church And therfore as the Kings of Israel did nothing in reforming of Religion and the worship of God but what was expresly commanded and prescribed in Gods Law so Christian Kings and Magistrates ought not to doe any thing no not to impose any one humane Ceremony or Ordinance in Gods service besides that which is written in Gods word otherwise the Foundations of Faith is overthrown Of such moment is the least Ceremony in Gods service that it is of the substance and Foundation of Faith L. p. 210. But 't is time to return For A.C. in this Passage hath been very carefull to tell us of a Parliament and of living Magistrates and Iudges besides the Law books Thirdly therfore The Church of England God be thanked shines happily under a Gratious Prince and well understands that a Parliament cannot be called at All times and that there are visible Iudges besides the Law-books and one supreme long may he be and be hapâ—y to settle all Temporall Differences which certainly he might much better perform if his Kingdome were well ridde of A. C. and his Fellows And she beleeves too that our Saviour Christ hath left in his Church besides his Law-books the Scripture Visible Magistrates and Iudges that is Arch-bishops and Bishops under a Gratious King to governe both for Truth and Peace according to the Scripture and her own Canons and Constitutions as also those of the Catholicke Church which Crosse not the Scripture and the Iust Laws of the Realme But she doth not beleeve there is any Necessity to have one Pope or Bishop over the whole Christian world more then to have one Emperour over the whole world P. It were time indeed for you to return from your Course when once there is mention of a Parliament For thriving If you mean that your Church of England hath of late dayes well thriven in her prevailing for the seting up of Images and Altars for bringing in more Superstitions into your Service for puting down sincerity Purity and power of the true Religion and of the Preaching of Gods word for suppressing the Doctrines of Grace forementioned for hampering the Puritans as you call them by puting down suspending and silencing of Godly and painfull Preachers and by crying down both the Doctrine and Practise of the sanctification of the Sabbath or Lords day and by smothering in the birth all sound and Orthodox Books against Popery and other Heresies not suffering them to be Printed and by licencing of Popish Books to be Printed and Publâ—shed and the like and if this be the way of the well thriving of your Church whomsover you have cause to thanke yet surely you have small cause to thanke God whose Name herein you doe abuse and blaspheme as perhaps your own Conscience may tell you as if he favoured such practises of yours because for a time he patiently suffers and winks at them and that in judgement to a sinfull Land and for tryall of his own servants and people and for a preparative to your certaine ruine if speedy repentance prevent it not For God is not mocked with such thanks though he be mocked but whatsoever a man soweth that shall he reape How then doth it concerne all Christian Magistrates to look to it least if they suffer Christs Kingdome to be betrayed into the hands of Antichristian Usurpers by giving way unto them to doe what they list while themselvs seem to sleep they provoke God too much For as Samuel sayd to the People If ye doe wickedly you shall perish both you and your King For my part though I will not joyne in Prayer with such a Profane Hypocrite as you are and an enemy of Iesus Christ and his Truth no more then the Apostle Iohn would be in the same Bath with that Heretick Cerinthus yet my dayly Prayer is and shall be that God would more and more let the King see how miserably he is abused and the Peace and safety of his Kingdome distracted and indangered both by the late violent practises which have been held in Church-affaires and now by the publishing of such a Book as this so notoriously perillous or rather most pernicious and so much the more in these times of troubles about Religion lately sprung up in the Iland of Great Britaine Which Book though it make many faire pretences for Peace yea Peace and Truth yet in truth it will prove the greatest troubler of Israel and the falsest friend to true Truth that the light hath seen these many yeares This I speake not by conjecture much lesse out of malice to the Authors Person but from the cleare evidence of the word of Prophecy in Scripture in such cases But how comes your Church of England to be so well seen in State-Mysteries I pray you as so well to understand that a Parliament cannot be called at all times Or by the Church of England doe you not meane the the Chaire of Catnterbury as the Church Collective or representative of England For you should better understand such State-matters especially for the not calling of Parliaments at all times or suppose it were at Notime or Nevermas least perhaps it might prove as a Frost to nippe your thriving and overforward spring then your Lordship For my part I am no States-man and so I leave State matters to States-men who should best understand them But if your A.C. and his Fellows be such troublesome fellows why doe you trouble your selves with them when a good honest Parliament might ease the King and Kingdome â—oo of that trouble provided that good Laws already enacted and by the next Parliament if ever there shal be any quickned by a new Law to put them in better execution there may be also a good season to bring forth such Visible Iudges as without straining the strings either of their Purses or Consciences coming clearly to their Benches and not making them as Banks but siting Rectè in Curia they may without feare of any Prepotent Prelate or Partiality in respect of Persons do Justice I passe now from the understanding of your Church of England to her Beliefe which you also tell us of She beleeves too What doth she beleeve That our Saviour Christ hath left in his Church besides his Law-books the Scriptures visible Magistrates and Iudges that is Arch-bishops and Bishops How Is this come already to be an Article of the Faith of the Church of
Primitive Church and Generall Councels is the Iudge of Controversies whereunto you professe to submit in all humility Thus these 12 Conclusions be as the 12 Articles of your Faith But now let 's a little examine what Truth or Force there is in all these I confesse some of them are somwhat coincident and like Brookes fall one into another but all have their Confluence into your Generall Councel as one maine Ocean But we will take a say of each as they run along For the first and so the rest which have any generall concurrence with it I deny that a Generall Councel is a sufficient and competent Iudge of Controversies in matters of Faith My Reasons are these First Because Generall Councels consisting of Prelates and more especially in these latter times are so much the unabler to judge of the sense of Scripture where 't is deep or doubtfull As Nicolaus de Clemangus in his Tract De Concilus Generalibus discourseth very largely and pregnantly of this very Circumstance shewing that Prelates are none of those to whom God doth reveale the mysteries of his will in his Word which are altogether spirituall but Prelates are carnall proud ambitious covetous minding the things of the world His whole Discourse is worth the Reading And Arelatensis Arch-Bishop of Arles in France in the Councel of Basil said that they had no zeale nor love nor knowledge of the Truth but every one would be of his Kings Religion and was ready to say as his King would have him and that the poore Priests were those by whom the Truth was upholden And not to goe farre from home If a Generall Councel were assemblâ—d of such Prelates as you are who have no savour of and lesse favour to the Truth having bewrayd in this your Book besides your usuall practises how contrary your spirit is to Christs spirit and wisdome Certainly asmuch as in you were you would bring utter confusion upon the world in seting up and establishing your Babilonish Faith and Religion And I have noted before how the poore in spirit such as feare the Lord are those Eagles Christ speaks of whose eyes are sharpest to pierce into the Mysteries of the Scriptures as having Gods holy Spirit to guide them into all Truth Heare what the wiseman saith The rich man is wise in his own conceit but the poore that hath understanding searcheth him out I leave it to your Application And Christ rejoycing in Spirit saith I thanke thee ô Father Lord of heaven and earth that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent and hast revealed them unto babes even so Father for it seemed good in thy sight Againe Prelates especially such as your selfe are taken up with State-matters and all of them generally with their worldly affaires and great Revenues so as they have little leasure so much as to thinke of Divine matters or to care for the state of mens soules or to seek to advance Christs Kingdome as being a'pellotriomenoi tes politeÃas tou Israèl as the Apostle speakes Aliens from the Common-wealth of Israel Yea even those that have good learning and judgement in Divinity which they had before they were Prelates after they come once to be Prelates they are so choked with the world and so over-awed with the servile feare of man that they dare doe nothing for the Truth especially in a time wherein it is openly opposed and oppressed but are willing to sleep in a whole skin and to let Religion and Faith sinke or swimme so they may injoy their Lordships and fill their Coffers Againe suppose a Generall Councel of Prelates were called for the purpose to judge and determine of the Controvesie about the Calling of Prelates whether it be Iure divino by Divine Authority or no as it was in Question and agitation in the Councel of Trent would not such a Councel trow you be Partiall in their own Cause and Define with one voyce That Prelates are an Order and of a Calling Jure divino and that Christ thought it fittest to governe his Church by such visible Iudges and Vice-roys Or if the Controversie were whether the Church alwayes collective in the Prelates have power to ordaine Ceremonies in Gods service to the Obedience and conformity whereof all mens Consciences are bound by which Imposition Gods people come to loose that liberty which Christ hath purchased for them and Christ should lose his Royall soveraignty as King in his Church as before is shewed it is not easie to Divine what the Difinition of such a Councel would be Or is there any Question to be made but that without any more adoe they would Order Determine Define and Conclude that Prelates the Church Collective have power to ordaine what Ceremonies they please in the worship and service of God which shall bind all mens Consciences to the necessary obedience and observation therof Would they herein have any respect to Christian liberty or Christs Prerogative Would they not with the Scribes and Pharisees and High Priests in their Councel condemn Christ for his Title of King of the Iews And because you are so much for a Generall Councel as Iudge in Controversies What say you to the first Generall Councel of Nice wherein there were above 300 Prelates as I remember Had they not all consented to the making of a Decree for the establishing of a Doctrine of Devils to wit forbidding Marriage to all Ecclesiasticall Persons had not one man Paphnutius and he an unmarried man too stood up and withstood such a Decree shewing by many Reasons and Arguments from Scripture and otherwise how wicked and cruel such a Decree were So early began the Mystery of Iniquity to bud forth and that in the most Ancients and in the very Prime or first Generall Councel wherein these Fathers the Prelates were so piously zealous though ignorantly to lay the foundation of a generall Aposticie from the Faith in establishing such a Doctrine of Devils as the Apostle calls it of which suffciently before Yet by your Doctrine If that Generall Councel of so many Prelates had determined it and ratified it by Decree all Priests then were bound to obedience untill another Generall Councell equall to that should reverse it which should have been long enough when every Age grew successively worse then other And thus in the very first and best Generall Councel after the Apostles a Doctrine of Devils should have been ratified and therein an Apostacie from the Faith and all men must have yeelded obedience at least externall enough to keep all your Priests from Marriage and so all Prelates and Priests should so quickly have proved a Generation of Apostates from the Faith Againe if you have a Generall Councel you must not according to the Councel of Frier Franciscus à S. Clara admit of any Puritans or the precise Party of the Reformed Churches beyond the Seas no not such as you call Puritan Bishops For you see
moderate man and saw more then he durst speake of And the same Rhenanus as was before touched in his Annotations upon Tâ—rtullian and I take it in that Book out which you cite this sentence De Corona Militis observes how sundry Heathen Ceremonies crope into the Church by occasion of many old men newly converted to Christianity whom it was hard to waine from their old Heathenish fashions which therfore were thought fit to be admitted as not hurting but profiting those old Heathen new Christians But godly and learned men as I said before could tell you what infinite dammage your tyrannicall pressing of your Ceremonies upon mens Consciences hath brought to the Gospell and so to the soules of men by depriving them of so many worthy Ministers onely for Non-conformity But this is one speciall end for which you so presse your Ceremonies to suppresse Godly and learned Preachers and so the sincere Preaching of the word of God that the people being brought up in ignorance and profanesse might be the lesse sensible of bearing the yoake of your Antichristian Tyranny over them But as for your Carnall Ceremonies which the Apostle saith are good for nothing pròs plesmonen in comparison of satisfying the flesh the carnall pride of will-worshipers we have spoken sufficiently before But Rhenanus addes a qualification so there be a meane kept I think you might have done well to have omitted this till you had been better acquainted with this meane of which before And the Author might have expressed this Meane a little more fully thus So there be either no Ceremonies at all or if any those very few and those few not pressed with rigor or necessity upon mens Consciences but left free to every one to use them or not according to the Christian liberty which Christ hath purchased for them as is said before Whereas you are not satisfied with a few Ceremonies nor with the Old but you must have New added with a Tot quot and all of them you presse so hard upon the Conscience as you wring blood And this is all the Meane you keep Lastly So the By be not put for the Maine that is say you so we place not the principall part of our Piety in them And doe not you so For you put your Altar and all the solemn Service and Ceremonies of Devotions and Adorations attending upon it even all your humane Inuentions and Will worship for the very Maine of all your Religion Do you not I know you willingly confesse it And what 's the By but Gods-word and the sincere Preaching thereof which you put By and by seting up your Altar-service do thrust out of the Church by the head and shoulders as is noted before And I say The Maine the All and some of all your Religion is your Altar On this your Goddesse all your other Devotions and Ceremonies as so many Hand-mayds give their devout attendance Your face prayeth towards your Altar your body boweth towards your Altar your second solemn service as the secundae Mensae for your daintier Cates must be served up upon your Altar which the maine Body of the Church must not tast of your Third service which is instead of the Preachers concluding prayer blessing after his halfe-houres Sermon must be served by your Priest at your Altar when with his blessing he dismisses the people with an Ite Missa est And all the while of your solemn Second and Third service your Serving men in their Liveries or Rich Copes stand and give their Attendance about your Altar your Crucifixes and Images like the Cherubims have their aspect and respect upon your Altar All must come and offer at your Altar while for joy your Organs merrily play Thus as the Romish Altar-service as Bellarmine tells us is the maine substance of all their Religion just so is yours That 's the Maine But What 's the By then Namely all the Intralls or Inwards of externall Devotion and worship these are the appurtinances these are the By. What are those Inwards The Inwards of True Externall worship are Faith Feare of God Love of God Zeale of Gods Glory sincerity of heart in spirit and Truth Now these with you are altogether the By for these you have layd quite By as before L. p. 280. F. Fisher reports After this we all rising the Lady asked the Bishop whether she might be saved in the Romain Faith He answered she might L. What Not one Answere perfectly related My Answere to this was Generall for the ignorant that could not discerne the errours of that Church so they held the foundation and conformed themselves to a Religious life Pag. 285. We have not so learned Christ as to deny salvation to some ignorant silly soules whose humble peaceable obedience makes them safe among any part of men that professe the foundation Christ. And pag. 288. some Protestants there be which doe as stiffly and as churlishly deny All Papists salvation as they doe us And 283. In this Our Charity is not mistaken and if it be mistaken Charity is better then none at all P. From all these words together we observe this one Maine That silly ignorant Papists living and dying in the Romish Faith may be saved with these conditions 1. If they discerne not the errour of that Church 2. So they profes the foundation Christ 3. So they conforme to a Religious life in an humble and peaceable obedience The second Maine I observe is That we ought not to deny to such in that case salvation And that upon these Reasons 1. Because we have not so learned Christ. 2. Because it is stiffnesse and Churlishnesse in Protestants to deny all Papists salvation 3. That in granting them salvation it is true Charity not mistaken 4. That if Charity herein be mistaken 't is better then none at all Of all these brefly First then I Answere That the Roman Faith being Infidelity it selfe 't is impossible that any living and dying in that faith can be saved And we have before proved it to be flat Infidelity and Apostacy Nor will it excuse any Ignorant that he discerneth not this Infidelity and Apostacy For ignorance though it excuse à Tanto as the Schoolmen speake from the muchnessâ— of sinne yet not à Toto from the Maine of sinne A man that is blind and knows not the danger of the way he walkes in doth as well fall into the pit as he that seeing runs headlong into it The Heathen knew not that they lived and dyed in Idolatry and Infidelity yet they were damned for all their ignorance Secondly for their Professing the foundation Christ Is Profession sufficient Many sayth the Apostle professe Christ that in works doe deny him being abominable disobedient and unto â—very worke Reprobate Is it enough then to professe all that is in the Creed did ignorant silly Papists know what their Latin-Creed meaneth and yet want faith Againe they professe as they are taught How is that
no salvation And that one Doctrine of Justification by works were there no more which all Papists professe and hold is alone sufficient to shut out all Papists living and dying therein from salvation This being so cleare should Protestants grant notwithstanding a possibility of salvation to any Papist living and dying in that Romish faith they should utter a manifest untruth and falshood and so should bewray themselves to be notoriously uncharitable How First to Protestant Professors 2. to Papists To Protestant Professors causing the weake at least to waver in their faith and make them the apter to be seduced by Romish Priests and Jesuites who prevaile not a little with vulgar Protestants and that by this very Argument which you hold That Protestants yea the Primate of Canterbury grant a possibility of salvation in the Roman Church Whereas we say the Jesuites deny salvation to be had in the Protestant Church Although I hope they will not extend this to the Church of England which you say is one and the same Church with that of which Rome is Againe secondly Protestants in not affirming this truth Then it is impossible for any Papist living and dying in the Roman faith to be saved should be very uncharitable to the Papists themselves For seeing them running on in a way which is full of false ground and deep pits covered over with green leaves and the end whereof is certaine and unavoydable destruction should they not cry out unto them to abandon that way and by all meanes and speed to get them out of it they were very uncharitable And the Scripture calls this hatred of our Brother As Levit. 19.17 Thou shalt not hate thy brothâ—r in thy heart thou shalt in any wise rebuke him and not suffer sin upon him And for ignorant Papists we are not to cast off all hope of them but erranti comiter monstrare viam shew those wanderers the right way instructing them with meeknesse proving if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledgement of the truth And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the Devil being taken captive of him at his will Ob. But for Protestants to have no better an opinion of Papists and of their Religion would as you tell us before make the rent wider which you are loth to doe The rent is too wide so to be sowed up with the rotten thread of your Charity Nay such your Charity keeps Papists the further off from the true Protestant Religion when they may be provided of salvation nearer home and that so easily too But however the truth must be spoken as you â—old us before As Augustine saith in the point of Predestination at the Preaching whereof some in his dayes as too many in ours taking offence he answereth Numideo tacenda est veritas c. Is the Truth therfore to be concealed because some unjustly are offended with it to their damnation and not rather to be spoken that he which is able to receive it may receive it to his salvation And here the Papists take offence at Protestants for speaking the truth it is not scandalum datum but acceptum not an offence given but taken And though some take offence yet others weighing by reason may thereby through Gods grace forsake their errour and imbrace the truth If they will not we have freed our own soules and Truth is Truth still We must keep our distance and not because they will not come to us goe the halfe way at least to draw them to us as before As the Lord saith to his Prophet concerning revolted Israel Let them return unto thee but return not thou unto them And if thou take forth the Precious from the vile thou shalt be as my mouth We must not mingle and confound the precious and pure gold with the base drosse not truth with errour not light with darknesse Yet for your part you say Thirdly Not to deny Papists salvation living and dying Papists to wit in the Roman Faith is not mistaken Charity and if it be mistaken Charity is better then none at all But first we have shewed that this is no Charity at all but an erronious opinion arising from a spirit destitute of the Truth and too much in love with the Romish whore And Secondly such mistaken Charity is worse then no Charity at all in this kind It were better if ye had no such Charity For your Charity towards your silly ignorant Papists in perswading them that they are safe enough in any society of men and there is salvation for them living and dying in the Roman Faith is a nuzzling of them in their ignorance and like the Apes Charity to her young one a strangling of them with too much hugging and bewrayes you to be of the spirit of those false Prophets that strengthen the hands of the wicked that he should not return from his wicked way by promising him life that dawbe with untempered morter that call evil good and good evil that put darknesse for light and light for darknesse and wo to such that say peace peace when there is no Peace Ob. But you will say shall we shut out silly ignorant Papists from Gods mercy Nay you your selfe shut them out from Gods mercy while you shut them up in their blindnesse and so from the meanes of Gods mercy For meanes of mercy they have none in their Popish Religion and blind faith and therein you lull them fast asleep while you tell them so long as they are ignorant of the Errours of Popery they are safe among any part of men Thus you shut them out from Gods mercy as much as in you is when we by shewing them the truth and their errour would lead them to Gods mercy Nor doe we deny but God may in the riches of his Grace and mercy prevent and overtake a silly Papist in causing him to imbrace Christ by Faith even when he lyes on his death bed and truly beleeving in Christ and so dying he is undoubtedly saved But dying thus a true Beleever he dyes not in the Roman faith but in the saving faith of Christ which the Roman faith is not So as thus dying within the Verge of the Roman Church yet he dyes no member of the Roman Church but of the true misticall body of Christ. And this Charity we have towards silly Papists praying that God would shew them mercy in delivering them from under Antichrists yoake to take Christs yoake upon them and bring them out of darknesse into his marvellous light To proceed L. p. 294 295. Io. Frith saith Of the presense of Christs naturall body in the Sacrament that neither side ought to make it an Article of Faith but leave it indifferent And B. Ridley we confesse all one thing to be in the Sacrament onely we differ in modo in thâ— manner of Beeing P And of this of Ridley you say ibid. 'T is well if some
over or besides consider men are men But I say we cannot conceive that those words of Iohn Frith could have any other sense then that which was sound and good considering as I said before he dyed for that very difference in Faith touching Christs presence in the Sacrament Now for Dr Ridley saying we differed in Modo in the manner 'T is true And the manner is the whole matter of difference Papists say Christs naturall Body is present we that the merit and vertue of his Body broken upon the Crosse and the merit and vertue of his Blood shed upon the Crosse is present to the beleeving soule in the Sacrament I may expresse it by this similitude of the Sun and the beames The body of the Sun is in heaven in its spheare locally and circumscriptively but the Beames are on the earth And when the Sun beames shine into our house we say here 's the Sun though it be the beames not the body of the Sun And so the Scripture saith of the Sacrament This is my Body because with the bread the faithfull Communicant receives the beames of Christs Body crucified into his soule his merits but not the Body it selfe But the Papists say as much as The very body of the Sun is in their house when it shineth But enough of this here having spoken sufficiently of it before Yet for a conclusion If your Lordship hold it to be a matter so indifferent about the manner of Christs naturall-bodyes presence in the Sacrament which you put upon the Martyrs if you were put to it as they were would you be of their mind and resolution rather to loose Canterbury life and 〈◊〉 then beleeve as the Church of Rome beleeves of the reall presence But I leave you to the Resolution L. p. 297. Transubstantiation Purgatory Forbearance of the Cup in the Sacrament are disputed and improbable Opinions yet so imposed as this may be enough for us to leave Rome though the Old Prophet forsooke not Israel 3 Reg. 13. And a little after And therfore in this present case ther 's perill and great perill of damnable both Schisme and Heresie and other sin by living and dying in the Roman faith tainted with so many superstitions as at this day it is and their Tyranny to boot P. I told you I feared some such thing when you commended last unto us the indifferencie of admitting of Termes of Reall Presence For now I perceive your Reall presence even in Transubstantiation it selfe is but an improbable and disputed opinion as also Purgatory and the Forbearance of the Cup. And by Disputed I suppose you meane Disputable such as either hath been disputed or may be disputed againe so as these things are matters of dispute and improbable And somtimes a thing that is improbable may prove true For Improbabile is not alwayes falsum It may seem improbable to us and yet be true in it selfe But for Transubstantiation is that which is clearly against Faith against Reason against the nature of Christs Body naturall against the nature of the Sacrament but an improbable opinion And for Purgatory Is that which is against Faith and overthrows the infinit vertue merit and efficacie of the blood of Christ but an improbable opinion And is that which you confesse to be against the expresse institution of our Saviour Christ as the taking away of the Cup in the Sacrament but an improbable opinion And doe you so favourably call that but a Forbearance which is a most notorious and shamelesse Sacriledge And then secondly All this say you may be enough for us to leave Rome May be Much may be but Is not I hope And so long well enough And though Actu it be yet not affectu But you might have said All this and much more besides if not onely disputable and improbable things but abominable and damnable But this is enough were there no more Yet say you the old Prophet forsook not Israel What then Ergo the Protestants though they might have had cause enough to leave Rome yet should have done rather as the old Prophet did not to have made a separation from Rome Ergo they were not so kind as the old Prophet But the old Prophet might continue in Israel upon better terms then the Protestants could have done in Rome For Israel had no Inquisition as Rome hath And you confesse that men might live in Israel and injoy the liberty of their Conscience seeing there was no Law made to restrain them from going to the one Altar at Ierusalem or to constrain them to sacrifice in the high places And yet that 's more then I beleeve can well be proved For those 7000. that had not bowed to Baal did hide themselves as not daring to professe and avow their Religion and Faith towards God as before So as it seems there was no open toleration in Israel for any to goe up to Ierusalem And it can hardly be thought that Ieroboam being a great Politician should give toleration to his subjects to goe up to Ierusalem to worship least they should fall back to Iuda againe for prevention whereof the two Calves were set up to keep the people at home The like policie used the High Priests Scribes and Pharisees to suppresse those that should confesse Christ in making a Decree to excommunicate them and so in puting Christ to death least his Kingdome should put down theirs And I hope your Hierarchy wants not the like policie for the rooting out of Puritans the true Professors and People of Christs Kingdome being Christs Kingdome and yours cannot consist together But you conclude somwhat dangerously when you say Therfore in the present case ther 's perill great perill of damnable both Schisme and Heresie and other sins by living and dying in the Roman faith tainted with so many superstitions as at this day it is and their Tyranny to boot This conclusion you apply not to the silly ignorant Papists for you leave them secure and out of danger as afore but to the knowing men of Rome having shewed them that though the silly ignorants may perhaps through the thick fogge and Aegyptian Myst of their palpable ignorance steale or stumble into heaven yet for the learned as A.C. and his fellowes 't is danger yea great danger to live and dye and that knowingly in the Roman faith But me thinks neither here do you buckle your selfe to such a serious businesse as this is so as to pull these wilfull men out of their puddle wherein they wittingly stick so fast You doe not with the spirit of zeale which Iude requires in good Ministers saying some save with feare aâ—prázontes snatching or plucking them out of the fire hating even the garment spotted with the flesh Nor doe you with Peters zeale tell these men save your selves from this crooked and wicked Generation such as the Scribes and Pharisees and High-Priests were But you onely tell them Ther 's danger great danger Of
let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity Loe here be two things joyned together which must not be parted 1. The Lord knoweth who are his here 's Gods foundation layd in his Eternall Counsell and Purpose according to that of the Apostle O'ùs proégno Whom he foreknew not foresaw he preaestinated to be conformed to the Image of his Son c. Here 's Gods foundation that stands sure and hath this seale The Lord knoweth who are his Now they that are Christs do so hold this foundation as that they are firmly built upon it which is properly to hold the Foundation For if a house stand not upon the foundation how can it be said to hold the foundation Now how come we to know whether a man doe thus truly hold the foundation Christ or no Why if he be built upon this Foundation And what is it to be built upon this Foundation The Apostle tells us which is the second part of this seale that settles us upon this Foundation And let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity Now to name the Name of Christ is not to professe Christ as nominall Christians as Papists doe To apply this then to your hopefull Papist or Christian Romanist He names the name of Christ he professeth Christ. Thus say you he holds the Foundation Christ. No say I No saith the Apostle For being a Roman-Christian he professeth he practiseth he liveth in the Religion and faith of Rome to wit Popery and this Popâ—ry is iniquity yea the very Mystery of Iniquity and the Religion of the Whore of Babylon whose golden Cup of Christian Profession is full of abominations and spirituall fornications This being iniquity he that holds the foundation Christ must depart from it Or els for all his naming the Name of Christ he holds not the foundation of God nor doth God know or acknowledge that man to be one of his he is not sealed And therfore your hope of such that are thus purblind seeing their errour but not departing from it is as vaine as your charity towards those that are stone-blind And you adde Hold the Foundation and live accordingly That is have the bare name of a Christian and live and dye a Papist which to doe you must needs confesse cannot stand with the possibility of Salvation And then what becomes of your hope For how can holding the foundation and living accordingly stand with the profession and practise Faith and Religion of Popery And know ye not That not every one that saith Lord Lord shall enter into the Kingdome of heaven but he saith Christ that Doth the will of my Father which is in heaven And what is that will That every one that nameth the Name of Christ depart from Iniquity What Iniquity All Iniquity But what is iniquity All iniquity is either morall or spirituall Morall iniquity is all that which is a breach of any of the Commandements of the second Table as murther Adultery theft falsewitnesse covetousnesse lust disâ—bedience to Parents and lawfull Governours in lawfull things and the like Spirituall iniquity is such as is against the Commandements of the first Table as Infidelity hatred of the Truth Idolatry as in the worship of Images will-worship superstition in Gods worship taking of Gods name in vaine in professing Christ and obeying Antichrist profanation of the Lords Sabbath day c. Now all such iniquity both morall and spirituall even all such spirituall wickednesses in high places a true Christian must not onely wrestle against but depart and flee from Otherwise though he shall say to Christ in that day Lord Lord Hâ—ve we not prophecied in thy Name and in thy Name have cast out Devils and in thy Name have done many wonderfull works as perhaps the Mountebank Friers and Priests will say of their lying wonders the marks of Antichrist Loe here all in Christs name no lesse yet Christ will professe unto them I never knew you depart from me ye workers of iniquity Thus Christ professeth he knows not those that onely professe him So as whatever Papists may boast of or pretend and professe that they are Catholicks that they are Christians that they hold the Creed and live a Religious life as their Ghostly Fathers teach them as we noted before yet living and dying Papists Christ shall certainly say unto them all aswell the starke blind as the purblind and aswell both these as the knowing men of Rome Depart from me all ye workers of Iniquity ye Idolaters ye Infidels ye Antichristians ye Hypocrites ye blind and ignorant I never knew you And you adde They hazzard themselves extremely by keeping so closse to that which is superstition and in the case of Images comes too neare to Idolatry Thus I perceive you will not rayse up your voyce one note higher then to superstition or at the most too â—eare Idolatry Not Idolatry outright onely bordering closse upon it too neare it God wote as Purgatory is too neare hell onely a Wainscot between and how soon burnt down and long ere now with so hot a fire on both sides so as 't is to be more then feared Purgatory and Hell by this time are become both one and so while your too neare Borderers upon Idolatry your worshipers of Images might hope to find some cold comfort when they should be in their hot Purgatory that by the vertue of a few Masses they may quickly be dispatched thence they find now such a confusion and mixture of Hell and Purgatory that they cannot find the way out And so neare Idolatry is your case of Images that it is not possible for the subtilest Schoolman to distinguish between them such is their not onely contiguity but continuity the Scripture calling an Image an Idol cÃdolon being in the Grammaticall and common construction an Image and in the Ecclesiasticall use of the Word any Image or Representation which men have devised to set up for a Religious use as in or by it to worship God or Saint And we have shewed before that if the Heathen in the worship of ther Images were Idolaters then how much more the Papists which both in their Doctrine and Practise do farre outstrippe the Heathen Nor in the case of Images alone are Papists most grosse and desperate Idolaters but also in the worship of their breaden God and in their worship of Angels and Invocation of Saints making them so many Gods as also the Crosse it selfe which they both invocate and worship with Latria which they call divine worship as before L. p. 302. Worth once mislead is of all other the greatest misleader P. And who of more worth in the account of some in the world then your Lordship If then this worth be misled as your Charity and Hope of misled Papists it becomes of all other the greatest misleader For this worth is become the greatest misleader both of Papists and Protestants both of the
whatsoever faith is requisite and necessary to salvation as the beliefe of Scripture to be the word of God as is shewed before And this saving faith is the faith of all them that are heires of salvation to wit of all Gods Elect and all the Saints But it seems with Father Bellarmine you have an Implicit faith for your ignorants and an Explicit for you that are great Clerks or the letter of the Creed for those and the sense for these But I handled this also before Onely you propound a Paradox which is no worke for your pen wherein you are the wiser not to take upon you to read or expound such riddles had you been so wise as not to have propounded â— And yet it is the worke of every good Minister of Chrâ—â—t to teach the people what to beleeve and to exhort them to grow in Grace and knowledge and Faith and so declare unto them the whole Counâ—el of God and to keep nothing backe and to build men up in knowledge more and more unto perfection As the Preacher saith Because the Preacher was wise he still taught the people knowledge yea he gave good heed and sought out and set in Order many Proverbs The Preacher sought to find out acceptable words and that which was written was upright even words of truth The words of the wise are aâ— Goads and Nayles fastened by the Masters of Assemblies which are given from one shepheard But this is not a patterne for you to follow neither by your tongue nor pen. You have other imployment for them But though we cannot set a bound to faith in respect of perfection of degrees yet we ought to teach the people all the parts of saving faith and knowledge striving unto perfection And besides it is the duty of every good Minister of Christ to limit and set bounds to all the negatives of faith in discovering all manner of sins and errours which are all contrary and enemies to faith and salvation For which end they must open all the ten Commandements as Christ did Mat. 5. and all other points of saving Doctrine in the Scriptures Now though you have not the skill or will to set bounds how farre men shall beleeve yet you want no will nor power to inhibit and restraine Preachers shewing them how little a way they must goe in teaching the people and so consequently how little a way the people must goe in beleeving and saving knowledge as in restraining and forbidding to preach the Doctrines of Grace as before forbidding Lectures and especially all Sermonâ— on the Lords day afternoon forbidding long Preaching at any time forbidding expounding of the Catethisme as many of your Prelates doe and the like Thus you can finely set men bounds how little thy shall beleeve or know of God to their salvation That 's a worke if not for your pen or hand yet for your head and not unlikely of your hand and pen too L. p. 327. The Romanists dare not beleeve but as the Roman Church beleeves And the Roman Church at this day doth not beleeve the Scripture and the Creeds in the sense in the which the ancient Primitive Church received them P Dare they not How then say you there is possibility of salvation in the Roman Church for any when it condemneth and accurseth saving faith and justification thereby with other saving truths For if the Papists dare not beleeve but as their Church beleeves then they are bound to good behaviour they dare not beleeve to their salvation And if they dare not beleeve to their salvation then they cannot be saved And if they cannot be saved what possibility of salvation for them living and dying in that faith And here Why do you noâ— say in the sense of the Scriptures themselves and not of the Primitive Church But you doe not like the Scripture sense except the Church interpret it You allow not Scriptures to speake for or testifie for themselves You are the same man still And as we sayd before you doe wisely in that to stoppe the mouth of Scripture as Ahab did Michaiahs for it never speaks good of you but evil alwayes L. p. 232. I will acknowledge every fundamentall point of faith as proveable out of the Canon as we account it as if the Apochryphall were added unto it P. As if Apocryphalls were any divine proofe at all of the fundamentall points of faith in Scripture or ought any way in that respect to be so much as named with the Scripture Apocryphalls saith Ierome may be read for instruction of manners but not for confirmation of faith as before L. p. 336. I have lived and shall God-willing dye in that faith of Christ as it was professed in the ancient Primitive Church and as it is professed in the present Church of England P. As you handle the matter ther 's a vast difference between the faith of Christ professed in the ancient Primitive Church and that which is now professed in the present Church of England For the Ancient Primitive Church taken properly and strictly as somtime in your Booke as before you put it was that wherein the Apostles lived Now will ye be tryed by the Ancient Primitive Church of the Apostles held and professed What say you my Lord for your faith in this case Will you put your faith and Religion to the tryall of the most intire and upright Jâ—ry the Twelve Apostles Certainly if you decline this tryall 't is a shrewd suspicion that the faith of yours wherein you are so resolute to live and dye is not right Therfore for shame of the world you must at least professe or pretend that you wil be tryed by the the Faith and Religion which the Apostles and the true Church of God in their time as being the most Pure Prime Ancient Primitive Church held and professed First then That Primitive Church neither held nor professed nor practised any Hierarchicall government of Prelates or Bishops but have câ—ndemned it in their writings the Scriptures of the New Testament And yet I are say you resolve to live and dye Primate of Canterbury and Metropolitan of all England Secondly The Apostles and the ancient Primitive Church in their Age and time had no Altars but onely the Lord Iesus Christ Heb. 13.10 as it is formerly proved but you and your Church of England both set up and worship Altars and â—each the people both by your Books and practise to do so too and force Ministers to erect Altars or force them out of their Churches And this Faith and Religion also I dare say you resolve to live and dye in Thirdly The Apostles and the anciciâ—nt Primitiâ—e Church in their time celebrated and sanctified every Lords day in holy duties onely and in preaching as well in the afternoon as in the fâ—â—enoon never forbidding but still exhorting to preach in season and out of season giving no liberty to vaine and profane sports and Pastimes either upon
in the first act of beleeving but after the Will of man is but a little stirred and moved by a certaine Grace which they call the first Grace which they confesse not to be the saving and sanctifying Grace then thereupon they have the merit of Congruity to receive the second Grace whereby hope and charity come to be added to faith And this is the expresse Doctrine of Trent The Conclusion then is That neither the Lady nor any Papist living and dying in the Roman Faith nor your selfe nor any in the Church of England that hold and professe no other Faith then the Roman Faith can possibly be saved living and dying in that Faith and though you tell us againe with great confidence as a most certaine Truth that it is no mistaken Charity to grant a 〈◊〉 of salvation to a Papist living and dying in the Roman Faith yet we have so discovered this your Charity before as I Hope your Charity wil be no more so mistaken Onely here I must tell you withall that as you either wilfully or most ignorantly and 〈◊〉 rather mistake that one saving faith of the Apostle so doe you also that Charity which you say he teacheth you Doth the Apostle teach you such a Charity as teacheth you to beleeve and affirme that which is contrary to the cleare Truth of the Scripture is it your Charity to attribute a saving faith to the Church of Rome which without all Charity accurseth the onely true faith and the truly faithfull of Iesus Christ which professe that onely saving faith Whereas you must know that Charity which the Apostle there teacheth Rom. 14.4 alledged by you is in judgeing Charitably of your Brethren in the use of things indifferent For there the Apostle speaks of eating or not eating of observing a day or not observing whereupon he inferreth Who art thou that judgest anothers servant To his own Master he standeth or falleth so as in such cases Christians must judge Charitably and not rashly censure others that do not as themselves doe in things simply indifferent This is then the Charity which there the Apostle teacheth But have you learned this Charity of the Apostle You tell us This Charity the Apostle teacheth me The Apostle teacheth you true Charity but it doth not thereupon follow that you have learned that Charity of the Apostle Doe you deale so with your Brethren in the use of things indifferent as not to judge them this way or that way in the using or not using of them Doe you leave them to their own Master Christ to stand or fall Nay do you not cause them necessarily to fall by the stumbling blocks of your Ceremonies which you say are things indifferent and yet you impose such a necessity upon the observation of them as they altogether cease to be indifferent and become a yâ—ake of bondage to the People of God And if they be so strong that they will not thus fall down to your Ceremonies no more then the 3 Children would to the Kings Image what then What Charity use you then towards them Doe you leave them to their own Master to stand or fall Not such thing But you take upon you to be ther Master and Lord and to be their Judge and to Judge them while sitting in your High Commission Chaire you convent them censure them as by Suspâ—nding Silencing Depriving Degrading Dispossessing or Fining Imprisoning undoing of their wives and children and without all hope of remedy or mercy from you till they shall acknowledge the Justice yea and perhaps the Clemencie of your Court in dealling so mercifully with them This This is that Charity which you have learned and which you dayly put in practise so as in this kind never any was more zealously and fervently Charitable then your selfe But this Charity you never learned of the Apostles nor did he or Christ or any of the Apostles ever teach you any such Charity No sure This wisdome This Charity of yours as Iames speakes cometh not from above but is Earthly sensuall and Divelih If you have no other Charity but this the Lord deliver us from your Charity And so I leave you to your mistaken Charity Onely for Conclusion hereof Immediately before you tell us you will dye as you live in that faith professed in the Church of Engdand Here you say Rome holds the same faith Ergo as you live so you will dye in the Roman faith And secondly Ergo The Faith of the Church of England and of Rome is one and the same Faith as before you tell us they are one and the same Church and at after as pag. 3â—7 they are of one and the same Religion not different Thus you have made a fine Confusion and this you meane to make your finall Conclusion Such is your Faith such your Religion such your Charity all mistaken The foulest and fearefullest mistaken that ever any man was overtaken with L. p. 339. The truth is you doe hold new Devises of your own which the Primitive Church was never acquainted with And some of those so farre from being conformable as that they are little lesse then contradictory to Scripture P. And is it not as true that in holding new devises which the the Primitive Church of which we spake but now was never acquainted with you may shake hands with Rome and her Jesuites who may therfore retort upon you that of the Poet Parcius ista viris tamen objicienda memento Novimus et qui te Be sparing such things to us to object Who know the like do on your selfe reflect And we have shewed before how both Romes new devises and yours for they are all one and the same are not onely as you still mince the matter little lesse then contradictory to Scripture but doe directly overthrow the cleare and evident truth 〈…〉 and that also even in fundamentalls And what say you to Romes new-old devise of worshiping Images to instance in no more though I might in many yea in all Romes Popish Doctrines as Popish as before is it but little lesse then contradictory to Scripture Doth not the Scripture say Thou shalt not worship any graven Image And what saith Rome I pray you Or if you or she for modesty sake will not tell us or if she dare not say in plain and expresse termes and in form of a Precept Thou shalt worship Images yet aske her whorish practises and her pretty devises wherewith she allures her children to the adoration of them and that even to dotage as by promising them preâ—ty lakons and new-nothings as pardon of sins for so many yeares for praying so many Avies and Pater nosters before such a 〈◊〉 or Image is not this Equipollent to a Commandement yea their very setting up and adâ—ring these their gaâ— Gods in their Churches the place of worship is it not an inviting and silent whispering in the Peoples eares worship and fall down before these sacred Images and Reliques giving them
of England doth Againe you make it no great matter of difference in this case between your Protestant and the Romanist whither this or that goe to each others Church so his Conscience put not a barre As you tell us a little after That the Church of Rome and the Protestants do not set up a different Religion Of which in its place And here also you put no difference but that the Romanist doth as well serve and worship God after his Roman manner in his Idolatrous Masse as your Protestant doth after your English manner And perhaps the difference will not be found so great between you but that you will well enough agree when you have cast up your reckoning But now what if one of your simple Protestants be not resolved in Conscience of the profession of the truth in the Church of England more then of that in the Church of Rome Is it not then lawfull for him to goe to the Romish Masse With â—ou it seems so so his Conscience hinder him not And what Conscience hath your ignorant Protestant to hinder him in this case Nay I will say more What knowing Protestant have you at this day in the present Church of England since the publishing of your Declaration before the 39 Articles which makes some of the principall of them to beare a double and contrary sense that is or can be resolved in his Conscience that either the true faith or so much as the Profession of the true faith is in the Church of England For those Articles which containe the Doctrine of your Church you confesse to be ambiguous and doubtfull and doe not resolve either way but leave your Church in suspense how then can any Protestant of the Church of England be resolved in Conscience that the Profession of the true faith is in the Church of England when neither your selfe seems to be resolved or at least you doe not resolve your Church concerning your Articles what to beleeve Which being so may you not fairely hence conclude that it is lawfull for any Protestant of the Church of Engdaud to goe to the Romish Church there and in that manner to serve and worship God untill he shal be resolved in his Conscience that the profession of the true faith is in the Church of England which resolution is not like to be till your Lordship hath resolved them which is the true and orthodox sense of your Articles and that by a publicke edâ—ct athenticke and every way equall to the former as in the case of Generall Councels when the errours of one must be obeyed till another equall to that shall reverse it As before But in the meane time unlesse you make the more hast with your Edict for Resolution your whole Church of England is now at liberty to goe to Masse and so to turne Romanist as having nothing to restrain them were there but Masses enough to intertaine them as no doubt there be Priests enough for the purpose had they but Churches so long as their Conscience is not resolved of the profession of the true faith in the Church of England And so the Broad Gates are set upon for the Consummation of your so much wished and plotted Reconcliation with the Church of Rome And you adde L. p 376. Nor do the Church of Rome and the Protestants set uâ— a different Religion fâ—r thâ— Christian Religion is the same to both but they differ in the same Religion and the difference is in certaine grâ—ssâ— corruptions to the very indangering of salvation which each side sâ—yâ—s the other is guilty of P. By Protestants here 't is plain enough you mean those of the Church of England not those of the Reformed Churches beyond the Seas I am sure of it For they utterly renounce the Romish Religion and Faith as Antichristian which you avow for Christian the same with yours But they differ say you in the same Religion How They do not set up a different Religion and yet they differ in the same Religion I understand not this Babylonish language But wherein then doe they differ in the same and undiffering Religion In some certaine grosse corruptions say you But in some not in all grosse corruptions which are indifferent and common to you both And what grosse corruptions are common to both those shall not be put in the reckoning of corruptions at all each covering other with the mantle of Charity Yea such as you both agree in are the very substance of your Religion And the whole substance of the Romish yea of all Christian Religion saith Bellarmine is the Masse This then must be That same undiffering Christian Religion which you both set up And herein how much doe you dister Have you not both your Altars the main substance on the service whereof all the rest attend as your Priests Sacrifice Images Crucifixes Adorations Organs curious musicke and many other devises for your pompous service your Liturgie differing more in the language then in the matter and forme But you will say you differ in Transustantiation Yet you are willing to have a reall Presence confessed and professed with you as is noted before But you say the difference is in certaine grosse corruptions indangering salvation On which side Each side say you charges other I have heard two butter women scold and each layd to other grievous things and the one said Thou playdst the whore and the other sayd Thou playdst the whore Which of these trow you was the honester Woman She haply that had lesse playd the whore then the other which perhaps was not for want of will but opportunity You and Rome charge each other with grosse corruptions which yet are one and the same in both Doth not thus the shame of both the more appeare Your grosse corruptions on both sides can agree well enough if you can be quiet Yea and that to the indangering of Salvation too For have you not to be silent in the rest both your Altars which are alone sufficient to sacrifice upon all your faith and salvation and so to leave you neither faith nor salvation in Christ as whom also you sacrifice thereon together with your faith and salvation For we shewed before that your Altars doe overthrow and deny Iesus Christ the onely Altar of true beleevers If then you both doe agree in the grossest corruptions as those whereby your salvation is not onely indangered but destroyed which is the maine of your Religion wherin you differ not what need there be any oddes between you for the rest Both sides complain of each other both have their corruptions and grosse ones too such as overthrow salvation Then let your conscious ingenuity confesse to each other and your conscientious Charity pardon each other And so let the world be troubled no more with your Differences but be good friends and agree as sisters L. p. ibid. It may appeare by all the former Discourses to any Indifferent Reader that Religion as it is
professed in the Church of England is nearest of any Church now in Beeing to the Primitive Church Therfore not a Religion known to be false And thus I both doe and can prove were not the deafnesse of the Aspe upon the eares of seduced Christians in all humane and divided Parties whatsoever P. You doe wisely to put it to the judgement of the indifferent Reader who unlesse he be a most indifferent man between your Church of England and that of Rome and so undifferent from you both in judgement and affection to whom this which you say shall appeare to be true For no such thing can appeare to any Reader that is not so affected as to beleeve your bare word so soon as ever it sounds in his eare or whose eyes doe not looke through the false glasse of your Perspective Indeed you have proved to all men sufficiently both by this your Discourse and by your Practises that you and Rome do not set up a different Religion We all beleeve it And consequently we beleeve that herein you come full as neare to the Primitive Church as Rome doth alwayes excepted Romes lineall Pedegree from Peter and you know you are a Degree once removed And how neare you both come to the Primitive Church of the Apostles especially the primest and purest we have before shewed sufficiently And if you come nearest who I pray you are furthest off Surely the most pious the most religious the most zealous the most painfull and faithfull preachers of the Gospel the greatest contemners of the world the most humble and meeke the most patient in suffering persecution for the truth the most pure and precise in their life and conversation the most exact conformist to the onely Rule of Faith and true Religion the word of God such as are not ambitious covetous carnall and worldly minded envious malicious cruel haters and persecuters of Gods word of his Ministers and people Such such I say must be furthest off from the Doctrine and practise of the Apostles and of the most pure and Primitive Church in their time if you the Prelates and Churches of England and Rome come the nearest unto them L. p. 377. But is there no superstition in Adoration of Images None in Invocation of Saints None in Adoration of the Sacrament P. Yes and grosse Heathenish Idolatry too yea and infidelity to boote though you would mince it never so small into a matter of superstition onely And may not I say to you But is there no superstition yea no Idolâ—try in your Adoration of Altars yea and worse then that of the Papisâ—s for they worship their God you the Altar None in your Adoration of the Name IESVS None in bowing before your Crucifixes over your Altars No inducement at least to Idolatry in your goodly Images erected in your Churches No 〈◊〉 smell of Popish superstition and Idolatry in yâ—ur Adorations in the presence of such Imâ—geâ— The Iewes would not â—o much as stoop to tye the latchet of their shooe in the place where an Image was least their bowing might seem to be to the Image And who knoweth with what mind you do your humble and lowly Dâ—votion before such sacred Reliques And to summe up all together is there no superstion yea no Idolatry in all that will-worship of yours and of the Church of Rome attended with so many Rites and Ceremonies of mans invention For what is all Will-worship but Idolatry yea and the highest kind of Idolatry As Vincentius saith What are strange Gods but strange errours for that Hereticks reverence their Opinions no lesse then the Gentiles doe their Gods And Augustine saith It is the vilest and 〈◊〉 kind of Idolatry when mâ—n worship their own fancies observing that for a Religion which their erronious and swelling minds imagine Thus we see as a learned Divine of the Church of England and of great Eminencie said that a corrupt and vicious Religion such as Popery is and such as you have made yours of the Church of England not a different Religion 〈◊〉 an inward and ghostly worship of Idols which saith he Prince ought not to 〈◊〉 at or tolerate seeing no man and therfore no Prince can 〈◊〉 two Masters For saith he if God be truth they which presume to worship him with lyes as in contrary faith must needs come to passe serve now not God but the Devil a lyer himselfe and the faâ—her of 〈◊〉 whose service no Christian Prince may so much as 〈◊〉 so he Thus our Divines of the Church of England in former ages shall 〈◊〉 up as witnesses to condemn you in the day of Judgement who teach and maintain things contrary to that truth which they delivered L. p. 378. What not prove any superstition any errour at Rome but by pride and that intolerable Truly I would to God A.C. saw my heart and all the pride that lodgeth in it P. This you speake to A.C. as to a Jesuite or some Frier or some Priest All is one such a one being a Ghostly Father you may safely sub sigillo Confâ—ssionis or sub stola under the seale of Confession or under the Friers frocke under the Rose as we say open the windows of your Brest and let him look in and view all the Roomes and corners of your heart to see what pride hath taken up her lodging there and so the world shal be never a whiâ— the wiser for it But you need not to wish any such thing The pride of your heart cannot so easily be hid as that you need wish with Momus if there were a glasse window in your Brest for men to look in and see it much lesse a subtile prying Jesuite Alas though the glaring light of it blind your own eyes that you cannot see it your selfe yet any other that is but purblind may through the Glasse or spectacles of this your Book see the monstrous multiformious shape of it had they not seen it before expressed in the Capitall Characters of your most insolent and all daring practises And that you yet see it not there is not a more infallible argument or signe of a more monstrous proud heart which is ever selfe blinded But look to it What saith Ieremie The heart is deceitfull above all things and desperately wicked who can know it I the Lord search the heart and try the reynes even to give every man according to his wayes and according to the fruit of his doingâ—s L. p. 379. I hope God hath given the Lady mercy P. Namely that same Lady who formerly had been either brought unto or confirmed in that Romish Religion by that which you resolved her in namely That she might be saved living and dying in the Roman faith and Religion wherein it seems as she lived so she dyed Now truly my Lord If God did give her mercy it is little God hamercy to you But what ground have you for this your hope Even as much as for