the Scripture in their Memory more Texts at their tongue's command more of the Books in their hands but 't is where more care is taken for imprinting the true Sence of these Words in the Vnderstanding of the People and where is us'd the most prudential method for the leading them into the truth of all the Mysteries contain'd in that sacred Volume And in this Point the Papist will yield to none for it is an unquestionable truth that when a Book contains high Mysteries of Religion Mysteries superiour to all Sence and Reason and those not deliver'd in expressions suited to every capacity but obnoxious to various interpretations such as may be wrested by the unlearned and unstable to their own Destruction in this case 't is an unquestionable truth I say that that People is in all probability likely to have more of the true Sence of this Book and to be better informed of the truth of the Mysteries it contains who are instructed in it by the Learned of that Communion and taught it by their Pastors Prelates and those whom God hath placed over them to govern and feed the Flock than any other People who have the Book put into their own hands to read it and search it and satisfie themselves For why Are not the Pastors more capable of teaching the People than the People are to teach themselves Or is it commendable in Scripture only and Religion for every one to be his own Master which in any other matter whosoever doe's it shall be esteem'd a Fool We know Moses Deut. 31. 9. gave the Book of the Law to the Levites to keep and read it every seven years to the People and in King Jehoshaphats reign 2 Chron. 17. 9. the Priests and Levits did read it and teach the People so did Jeremy Jer. 36. by Gods command so Isaiah so Ezekiel so the Levits Nehemiah 8. 8. Read in the Book in the Law of God distinctly and gave the Sence and caus'd them the People to understand the Reading And did not our Blessed Saviour Luc. 4. 17. take the Book of the Prophet and read it and expound it to the People And was not this the Office of the Apostles and Deacons to interpret the Scriptures and instruct their Followers what they were to believe and doe For this intention was Ananias sent to Saul Peter to Cornelius and Philip to the Eunuch who professedly own'd he could not understand the Prophet in so necessary a Point as that of the Messias without an Interpreter How can I understand said he except some man should guide me Act. 8. 31. Since therefore the Papists in delivering the Scripture come nearest to this Method commanded by God in the Old Law prescrib'd and practis'd by Christ and his Apostles in the New what People can be better instructed in the true sence of it and understand more of the Mysteries of the Christian Faith than they With what Reason can it be urg'd against the Vulgar of his Communion that the Scriptures are hid from them that they are bred up in blindness and ignorance Do not the Pastors expound the Scriptures to them do not they instruct them in every Point of their Religion and teach them the whole Duty of a Christian Is it not this they do in their Pulpits in their Catechisms in the Confessionaries in so many hundred spiritual Books plainly laying before them their whole obligation both as to Faith and Good manners And is this to conceal from them the Scripture Is the Word of God hid from them because they have their Pastors to instruct them in it Or are they any ways injur'd because they have learneder men than themselves to teach them Is the Multitude a better Judge of Scripture and more able to discover the truth of it than those whom God has plac'd over them Has God so deserted the Pastors and Prelates of his Church and is the Flock of late become so Wise The Faith of Christ was first planted by Christ's Preaching it to the Multitude by the same way 't was propagated by the Apostles and so it is to be deliver'd down to the end of the World Faith comes by hearing By this means many Barbarous Nations saies St. Irenaeus l. 3. adv har c. 3. believe in Christ have the Doctrine of Salvation written in their Hearts by the Holy Ghost without the help of Books and religiously observe the Traditions believing in one God c. Now 't is certain the Truth of this Christian Faith with all its Mysteries is unquestionably preserv'd in Christs Catholic Church and the People are to receive it and not to find out their Faith and Religion every one for themselves If they are afraid of being deceiv'd when they rely on their Pastors for it they run ten times the hazard when they trust to themselves The Papist therefore is taught that since Christ has a Church upon earth in which is conserv'd the truth of the Gospel 't is safer and more prudential for the People to be instructed in this Truth from the Pastors of this Church and by this means come to the Knowledg of the Word of God that is of its true sence and meaning than by committing the Book it self into the hands of the Multitude and leting every one understand it for themselves He knows 't is a very popular thing and acceptable to the prying Multitude to have a Book at command which directs the Way to Salvation but since 't is not the Book is to save him but the Truth and Doctrine which it teaches he believes 't is better learning this from those who are Wiser and are commissionated from Heaven to teach than to venture at it himself without any Authority The unhappy Divisions among Christians sufficiently inform him that to such Readers as St. Peter calls unreary and ignorant however wise they may think themselves Aâ—ianism may be as obvious in this Book as Christs Divinity and that when such an one undertakes the interpreting of it 't is an hazard whether at the end he comes out Quaker Anabaptist Presbyterian Independent Mugletonian Socinian or Atheist 'T is a Venture whether the Trinity shall have place in his Creed or no whether he 'll allow of Baptism or any Sacrament and whether Cruelty cutting of Throats Oppression Tyranny Dethroning of Kings and Murder of Princes shall not with him become a necessary Duty and a true serving of the Lord. For all these and more damnable Doctrines has he seen preach'd up and practic'd by those who have had the Bible in their Banners who have been esteem'd Searchers of the Word of God and presumptuously made their Comments upon this Sacred Text. And is it not this abuse that has occasion'd so many Schisms and almost broken the Mystical Body of Christ into pieces That whereas all his Followers should be of one mind now no body knows what Religion his Neighbour is of but every Wall now parts Religions more than Seas did heretofore And
the whole is come to be no more than a Perswasion a Judgment an Opinion And now since these and infinite other mischiefs arise from the free permitting the Bible among the Multitude he thinks it commendable in his Church out of a true Solicitude for the Salvation of Souls to prevent these evils by teaching them the true Sence of this Sacred Volume and instructing them in their whole Duty as to all they are to believe and practice without leaving the Book to be scann'd by them as they please and so not permitting them to turn the Food of their Souls into Poyson or abuse that to theit Destruction which was ordain'd by Christ for their gaining of Heaven They are not therefore depriv'd of the Holy Scripture but have the whole benefit of it and all the comfort being instructed in the whole word of God only with this Advantage that 't is not left in their power to do themselves any mischief by abusing it And this is so ordered only in consideration of the Vulgar who are commonly very ignorant unsteady bold presuming or as St. Paul stiles them Vnlearn'd and Vnstable and easy to be deceiv'd whilst judicious men of his Communion any one that is Learned Prudent and Sober may be easily permitted to have the perusal of this Book to read it as much and as often as he pleases because such are not in danger of prejudicing themselves by false interpretations or preferring their own Sence before that which they receive from their Pastors and the Church 'T is not the Book therefore that is properly forbidden but only false and presumptuous interpretations of it and such only who are in all probability likely to do this are not permitted to read it And upon the whole there 's nothing more in this great noise of the Papist being depriv'd of the Word of God than that such as for the most part are not capable amongst them of reading it as they ought have not leave to read it and those that are capable may have in most Countreys leave to read it as they please Those that can read it to edification may have it at desire and those that are likely to read it to the perverting of Gods Holy Word and the destruction of their own Souls 'T is thought fit they should let it alone Publish'd with Allowance London Prnted by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel 1686. THE CATHOLIC REPRESENTER CHAP. VIII The Vulgar not permitted to read the Bible among the Papists for fear they should discover the Errours of their Religion an Absurd Calumny The Restraint is That there may not be as many different Words of God as there are 〈◊〉 amongst them and may have something better ground that their own Imagination to direct their Faith a word to a Lay-friend Misrepresent YOu gave me no room to put in one word in your last but for all your long-winded Reasons there why the Vulgar of your Communion do not generally read the Scriptures I can apprehend no other but only that your Priesis and Jesuits being conscious of the unreasonableness of Popery and how contrary it is to the Truth of God's Word dare not allow the People the reading and perusirg it left finding their Religion not to stand the trial of the Scriptures they should discover the delusion and run over to the Reformation Represent I expect no better from you 't is your trade to make the worst of every thing the Papists do but the best on 't is your Misconstructions lie so open that there needs no more than a mere glimpse of Reason to discover all your Art. For if any of your Auditors should but once consider that tho' the Vulgar and unlearned of the Papists have not in some Countries the Bible promiscuously allow'd amongst them yet that in those same Countries and all others there 's no Colledge Vniversity Community or place of learning but where the Scriptures are publickly read and expounded if they should consider this I say Is it possible for them to believe that that Restraint is upon the Vulgar for fear they should see into the Foliies of their Religion If their Religion were so contrary to Scripture as you pretend is it not more likely the learned should make this discovery in their reading the Bible than the Vulgar if they had the like liberty Cannot Scholars as easily see the Truth of Scripture and what is erroneous and at defiance with it as the Vnlearned Or are the Errors and Foliies of Popery such that of necessity a man must be a Block-head to understand them Since when became Mechanics and Apron-strings so priviledg'd that to be bred up to the Anvil the Needle or the Ell should qualifie better for the understanding the Scriptures than application Study and the education of a Vniversity Or is it probable that every man amongst the Papists no sooner becomes Scholar but he turns Atheist That upon their search in the Bible they plainly see all the errors of their Religion and yet are so bewitched as to go on boldly and jocondly to the Devil without speaking a word or moving a step to save their own Souls or their Relations Come Misrepresenter this looks so like a sham of yours that I cannot but admire your confidence I wonder how you dare venture your credit in exposing such weak and ill-grounded Arguments You have men of sense and reason to deal with and 't is much they do not make exceptions But I suppose you rely upon the hearty Prejudice they have against Popery in which case you know they 'l take upon trust they 'l pin their Faith upon any mans Sleeve and let impossibilities pass for evident Truths without examination Misrepresent You may prove and preach as long as you please but I am sure thousands and thousands that I meet with will never believe otherwise than I tell you You do all things by design and you have no other reason notwithstanding all your loud pretences for keeping the Eible out of the hands of your common people but only the jealousie your Pastors have that by that Light they 'l see into the deformitys of Popery and prove Deserters Represent The men of this Creed are only such whose Eyes you have put out to lead them by the Nose after you where you please What ground can there be for this pretension at least here in England where the Bible in English or Rhemes-Testament is to be found in most Catholic Families If the Prohibition of not reading the Bible be as you pretend in other Countries for fear of the Vulgar discovering the Errors of their Religion How comes it they donâ—t make this discovery here Do you find so many Deserters in this Nation upon this score Many have quitted that Communion upon other motives best known to themselves but never any one I could meet with left them yet by reading and following the Word of God. Again
others Invisibly profess'd others travel a great way to find it and return back with a May be and it may be 't was under the Rubbish And what if one should here enforce the Argument in The Plain Mans Reply He 's upon Enquiry Who is the Infallible Judge asserted by Catholics and because he don't find Authors agree upon the Point Where he shall find him p. 18. 25. he there concludes them all to be but Triflers and that there 's no such Judge in the World. Would not this conclude as forcibly that there was no Protestant Church in the World before Luther Since being now upon the Search to what Church or Communion one was to have applyed himself in K. Henry the Seventh's time to have been instructed in the True Faith and Doctrine of Christ they generally agree there was such a Church in the World but some send us to Armenia for it some to Greece some to the Hussites some to an Invisible Corner some to a Cloud some to look under the Rubbish What can a Man call this but in the Plain Man's phrase Trifling And yet Plain as he is he stands fair for this same Title of Honour he has so bountifully bestow'd upon others For as others so He tells us p. 10. that True Religion shall never be so far driven out of the World but that it shall always have somewhere or other some that believe and profess it in all things necessary to Salvation I enquire Where these were twenty years before the Pretended Reformation He assures me They were certainly in the World some where or other Great satisfaction to an Enquirer Is not this just as if I were travelling to a certain Town as as 't is in the Plain Mans Reply p. 19. and do ask the next Man I meet which is the right way He tells me 't is a very Cross-Road to find and I may easily miss it But saith he tho' I cannot direct you my self yet there is a Man lives in that Village who knows every step so exactly that if you take him for your Guide you cannot possibly be mistaken Pray say I at what House do's this Honest Man live How may I come to the speech of him Nay saith he I know nothing of all that but you must find him as you can Now suppose every Man in the Village gives me the same wise Answer What an admirable Direction would this prove Is this any thing but Trifling This is just our Case I am enquiring to find out the True Protestant Church before Luther All assure me 't was certainly in the World but when I come to ask Where the Plain Man's Reply is Some where or other Misrepr Tho' they don't agree where 't was just before Luther Yet all agree 't was generally profess'd by the Primitive Christians Represent Then I see we must despair of finding it the thousand Years before Luther And what was the Primitive Church we 'l enquire in our next Publish'd with Allowance LONDON Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel M DC LXXX VI. THE CATHOLIC REPRESENTER CHAP. XI An Enquiry into the Religion of the Primitive Times and particularly That of Constantine the First Christian Emperor For the satisfaction of those who desire to know whether the Protestant Religion was generally Professed amongst the Christians of those Purer times Represent WE are now to enquire into the Belief and Practice of the Primitive Church and see whether that was Protestant or Catholic But we must first know how many Years or Ages you 'l allow us to look into that is how long you say the True Pretestant Religion as now establish'd was profess'd and practis'd Anciently and Generally among Christians after the Apostles days before corruption crept in upon it Setle this Point and then we 'll proceed Misrepresent If you are in good earnest He give you some account of this The Author of the Discourse Concerning a Judge of Controversie lately publish'd says p. 15. For Authority We appeal to the best Authority of the Christian Church the Three First Ages after the Apostles So that I presume by him the Protestant Religion was Anciently and Generally profess'd and practis'd to the year of Christ 400. Calvin Reynolds and Fulk own the Church of Rome to have continu'd in the Doctrine of the Apostles that is Protestant in the time of Cyprian Jerom Austin the last of whom liv'd till the year 430. Agen in the Discourse entitled Papists not Mis-represented by Protestants 'tis said p. 56. The Tradition of the Church remain'd Clear and Strong till after the First Four General Councils the last of which being that of Chalcedon establish'd in England by Act of Parliament An. 1 Eliz. was held in the Year 450. So that I may allow you to search into the Primitive Church for the first four hundred and fifty years for so long I question not the Protestant Religion was Generally profess'd and practis'd and that Religion as then practis'd is the same as now establish'd by Law here in England and 't is a shame You and Yours shou'd so declaim against it Represent Pardon me here for I profess my self to have so great a veneration for the Primitive Church that I resolve to believe as that believ'd and if it appears that That Church was the Protestant Church I le e'en be Protestant to morrow But let us go on upon our Enquiry You say you have reason to believe the Protestant Religion was Generally profess'd in the Primitive Times for the First Four hundred and fifty years For your satisfaction and mine we 'll take a view of the Christian Religion as then profess'd And that we may proceed with more security and certainty we 'll not descend at present so low as you allow but look at it as 't was practis'd in the time of Constantine the Great who died about the year 337. I make choice of this time because This was the First 〈◊〉 that gave liberty for the Publick Profession of Christianity and establish'd it by Law. 'T was under him all those Pious Learned and Holy Men first appear'd wâ—o till then had been confin'd by cruel Persâ—câ—â—ors to Caves Rocks and Wildernesses 'T was under him the First General Council of Niâ—e was held which we all venerate and whose Creed we all recite and assent to as Apostolical Misrepresent I approve the circumstances For if ever Christianity was Pure and Vncorrupt it must certainly be then when it first shew'd it self to the world and rais'd up its Head from under Perfecution And now you put me in mind of it Dr. Swadlin in his Answer to the 36 Questions reckons This Emperor Constantine the Great for one of the Fathers or Professors of the Proteâ—tant Relition in old times Answ 11. So that I have no exceptions against Him. But who shall give us the account of the Religion then Profess'd Represent Ee'n the Fathers or Professors that then liv'd
And what think you now Misrepresenter tell me your Opinion was the Protestant Religion Anciently and Generally profess'd and practis'd in these Primitive Times when Constantine govern'd both the Western and Eastern World Do's the Church in his time practising as you have now seen acknowledg'd by unquestionable Authorities look like a Protestant Church If you know what 't is to be a Protestant tell me your mind Was Constantine and his Church Protestants or no Misrepresent You have hunted out for all the Superstâ—tions Errors and Oversights of that Age and now ask Whether the Professors were Protestants And I answer you They were Protestants as to the Doctrine of the Gospel and Creed which they profess'd tho' not as to their Oversights and Errors Represent That is to say in plain English They were Protestants as the Papists now are Protestants Any honest man by your appeal to and Pretext of Reformation according to the Primitive Times would have expected to have found a Protestant Religion profess'd and practis'd in those times as 't is now here in this Nation by Law establish'd And yet when we have taken a Prospect of those Primiâ—ive Ages we find the Christians then living Professors of no other Protestancy than such as is seen practis'd at this day in their Majesties Chappels at White-Hall Somerset house and St. James's and that I think is a Protestancy which is call'd Popery Misrepresent Why in our Reformation we are no more oblig'd to take in the Errors of Constantine 's time than those Corruptions we found in the time of Henry 8. No we Reform according to the Purity of the Gospel and have no other Rule than that of the Word of God Instructing and Directing us And as for all Superstitions they are alike rejected by us tho' some have Antiquity to plead in their behalf Represent Then I see however you pretend your Reformation has reduc'd Christianity to that state as 't was profess'd in the Primitive Times Yet when we come to look into those times thinking to find a Flourishing Uncontrol'd Protestancy Generally and Publickly Profess'd we are still as far to seek for 't as before and all that appears is the Doctrine of the Creed and Gospel profess'd but together with what you call the Errors and Superstitions of Popery so that to be a Protestant according to the Primitive Times is nothing else but to be a Papist Certainly this must be a very surprising disappointment to some to find Constantine the Great and Eusebius his Historian to be such kind of Popish Protestants as these who yet are set down by your Dr. Swadlin as the Ancient Protestants according to whose Faith and Practice the present Reformation was regulated and against whose Positions says he Ans 11. if we hold any thing name it we answer it prove it we yield So that let me tell you By what I can see as yet when a man has taken the pains to look back to those Primitive Ages he can be no more satisfied where the Protestant Religion as 't is now Reform'd was in the time of Constantine than when Luther began the Reformation but after all his search he must rest contented either with the Plain Mans Reply of its being Home where or other or else with the same It may be as was given to the Parishioner It may be 't was in the Greek in the Abassin and Egyptian Churches amongst the Armenian Christians It may be 't was in a Corner under a Cloud cover'd with Rubbish What if we say 't was no where Famil Discourse betwixt a Minister and Parishioner p. 14. ADVERTISEMENT THis is to give notice That this last Week were sound here in London several Good Protestant Lies concerning Flying Crabs seen in the Chappel at Somerset-house and of the Parish Church of St. James's in the Fields being undermin'd by the Papists and in danger of being demolished by Fire-Balls If the Right Owners will appear they shall be restor'd to them without Cost or Charges and if any will produce them they shall be well rewarded for their Pains Publish'd with Allowance Publish'd with Allowance Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel MDC LXXX VI. THE CATHOLIC REPRESENTER CHAP. XII Protestant Historians shew us Popery in the Primitive Church under Constantine but no Protestancy The Christians of that Age never Protested against the Popish Doctrines professedly Taught and Practis'd in those times Therefore they were no Protestants An Enquiry into the Religion of the Ages succeeding Constantine Represent IF you remember at our last meeting Misrepresenter we were looking back into the Primitive Times to see if we could find there the Protestant Religion as 't is now reform'd Generally Profess'd and Practis'd amongst the Christians of that Purer Age. But we lost our labour and all the Hopes You came big with ended in nothing but a disappointment Misrepresent 'T would be a Miracle indeed to find it as long as you have the carrying and management of the Light by which we are to make the Discovery Represent A short memory makes you Unreasonable Have you forgot so soon the very Means and Method by which we enter'd upon our Search were of your own Choice at least by approbation and consent Our business was to make enquiry after the Protestant Religion We agreed to examine the Religion Practis'd in Constantine's time who as your Dr. Swadlin says was a Protestant and in whose time according to your Divines the Protestant Religion was generally profess'd We took an account of the Religion of that Age from Eusebius a Protestant Professor too if you credit Dr. Swadlin and some other Modern Protestants The Translation of Eusebias we made use of was done by a Protestant approv'd and publish'd by Protestants and Printed at Cambridge Anno 1683. a Protestant Vniversity what possibly could be fairer done and more to your advantage And yet after all instead of meeting in those times with the Protestant Religion as now Reform'd we were got in the middle of Good Catholics Professing and Practising their Religion receiv'd from the Apostles pure as yet and uncorrupted as your Fulk and Calvin confess and such as you under the specious Pretext of Reformation have since made Odious and Criminal and done your best to hiss it out of the world Misrepresent The Reformers have preserv'd the Religion of those times Inviolable and have only labour'd to purge Christianity of the Errors then or since that time brought in to deform it Represent This is the proper Mark of the Beast Never a Reformer yet even from Arius to this Day but what has set up his Standard against Pretended Errors and Innovations And this is the stamp they set upon every thing that does not sute with their Humour Fancy or Interest The Reformers of the Reformation go by the same Rule and such as Reform agen upon those that Reform the Reformation still pursue this Method till at last they have
those expressions of the Fathers are only occasional or accidental but where they treat professedly of this Subject they speak plainly in our behalf and to follow the Rule of one of the Lights of your Church as you stile him in this Pamphlet I would fain know whether a mans judgment must be taken from occasional and incidental passages or from design'd and set discourses which is as much as to ask whether the lively representation of a man by Picture may best be taken when in haste of other business he passes by us giving only a glance of his Countenance or when he purposely and designedly sits in order to that end that his Countenance may be truly represented There 's no Book treats so fully and demonstratively of any Subject in one place but occasionally speaking of the same elsewhere from some obscure or dubious expression furnishes matter for an Objection against the Doctrine before designedly establish'd This is true even of the Bible it self which teaching Christ to be True Man do's yet by the occasional expression of St. Paul saying that he appear'd in Habit as a Man and in the Likeness of a Man give occasion to some to object that he was no Real and Substantial Man which strikes at the very Fundamental Truth deliver'd in that Sacred Volume and if this be true even of the Word of God it self what wonder to find it in the Works of the Fathers much more ample and voluminous Misrepresent This is another shift with a help of a Logical distinction however let this pass too But as long as you don't believe your sences but deny the certainty of those Powers which God has given us to lead us to the Belief of all the Mysteries of Christian Religion I am sure you contradict the Fathers and are in a fair way of undermining the very foundation of Christianity Represent This is the Cock-Argument of the other Light of your Church and it so far resembles the Light that like it it makes a glaring shew but go to grasp it and you find nothing in your Hand Why Misrepresenter even in this Mystery I believe more of my Sences than you do my Eyes tell me there is the colour of Bread and I assent to them my Tongue that it has the tast of Bread I agree to it my smelling that it has the smell of Bread I yield to it my Fingers that it feels like Bread I accept of the Information my Ears tell me from the Words spoken by Christ himself That it is the Body of Christ I believe these too Is not here Misrepresenter one Sence more than you believe And yet you would fain perswade the World I do not believe my Sences The Sence by which Faith comes is that of Hearing S. Paul possitively affirming that Faith comes by Hearing and how do I overthrow the certainty of Christian Religion by hearkning to that Sence by which all Faith is to be conveyed into my Soul Misrepresent You don't believe your Eyes which assure you of the Substance of the Bread being there even after Consecration Represent If your Eyes see the Substance of things they are most extraordinary ones and better than mine For my part mine never saw farther than the Colour or Figure c. of things which are only accidents and the entire Object of that Sence 'T is Reason or Judgment acquaints me with the Substance and this Judgment 't is true I frame generally from the Information of my Sences excepting when they are indisposed or some Divine Revelation intervenes For in this case I choose rather to judge from This than from my Sences as Abraham did who being told by his Sences That those three that appeared to him Gen 18. were Men and by a Revelation from God that they were Angels judged of them and their Nature according to the Revelation and not according to his Sences Misrepresent You are all upon Quirks and Philosophy to day and I am tired with your Distiactions and so farewel till the Holy-days are over Represent Fare you well but do you hear don't forget to send your People to the Chappels to Morrow Morning to see the Nursing and Rocking the Child in the Cradle This is one of your April-Errands for Christmas Morning and you don't think much of making the Papists ridiculous though it be at the expence of making your own people Fools Publish'd with Allowance London Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the Kings most Excellent Majesty for His Houshold and Chappel 1686. THE PAPIST Misrepresented and Represented SECOND PART CHAP. IIII. The Form of the Catholic Church establish'd by Christ No hopes of Salvation out of it The Practice of the Apostles and Primitive Church in this point Good at this day The Protestants as uncharitably damn the Papists as These are said to do the Protestants In reference to the Preface of Wholsome advises from the B. V. c. THe Papists Misrepresented is Member of a Church which excludes all others from the hopes of Salvation besides those who are within the Pale of her own Communion And no doubt his Church is True if uncharitableness be but a Mark of the True one if it be but safest to be on the uncharitable side he 's beyond all question in the right But certainly this is to leave the Rule of Christ and his Apostles and of the Primitive Church who taught none of this damning Doctrine but ever recommended Charity as the necessary foundation of a Christian life THe Papist Represented is taught that Christ our Saviour before his Ascension into Heaven establish'd a Church consisting of all True Believers amongst which he gave some Apostles and some Prophets and some Evangelists and some Pastors and Teachers for the perfecting of the Saints for the work of the Ministery for the edifying of the Body of Christ till we all come in the Vnity of Faith. Ephes 4. 11 12 13. These Apostles Evangelists Pastons and Teachers he constituted over the Faithful to over-see rule and direct them to whom he gave them in charge by the mouth of St. Paul Act. 20. 28. Take heed therefore unto your selves and to all the Flock over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you Over-seers to feed the Church of God which he hath pnrchas'd with his own blood with a strict Command to the Flock or Congregation of the Faithful to be obedient to these Pastors thus put over them by the Ordinance of God Heb. 13. 17. Obey them that have the rule over you and submit your selves for They watch for your Souls as they that must give account And vers 7. Remember them which have the rule over you who have spoken unto you the word of God whose Faith follow This command of submitting to Pastors was given to the Flock as he is taught by St. Paul for the preventing Divisions and Schisms that so notwithstanding their differing private Inclinations Capacities Sence and Judgment by this Obedience and Submission to those that
upon the same grounds turn Christianity out of doors and own it to be built on no better foundation than the Ignorant Zeal and Confidence of its Asserters The Motive of St. Augustin for his embracing the Scriptures for the Word of God was the Authority of the Catholic Church he expresly declaring cont Ep. Fundam That he would not believe the Gospel except the Authority of the Catholic Church mov'd him to it From this same Authority it is he receives every Article of his Faith and since in his very Creed he is taught to believe the Holy Catholic Church he thinks he has Reason enough to do it And whosoever taxes him of Weakness or Confidence for so doing do's nothing less than call him a Fool for believing his Creed and this is only one Remove from telling him that if he 'll be Wise and have good Reasons for what he do's he must be no Christian Others may be so Wise as to believe only Eleven Articles of their Creed for his part he thinks it no reflection upon his Wisdom to believe Twelve he was taught so many when he was a Child and he do's not find he has outgrown any one of the number This Catholic Church which by the Creed every Christian is bound to believe is as was explicated in our last the Congregation of all true Believers under the Government and Direction of Pastors and Teachers in an uninterrupted Succession descending from the Apostles who by Gods appointment are set over the Flock to feed and rule it and whom the Flock is oblig'd to hear and obey and whose Faith they are bound to follow in each respective Age. 'T is thus deliver'd to him by St. Paul Heb. 13. 7 17. Remember them which have the Rule over you whose Faith follow Obey them that have the rule over you and submit your selves And this way of the Faithful receiving their Instruction in the Christian Belief from the Catholic Church speaking to them by the Pastors and Teachers of the said Church which is the Method he observes as to every Article of his Faith has been always look'd on so sound and reasonable that in the time of the very Apostles and of the Primitive Church there was never any us'd but this 't was by this means the World first became Christian and by the very same Orthodox Christianity has been always preserv'd in its vigour and purity notwithstanding all the oppositions of Subtle Malicious or Self-interested Adversaries He that has but read the Scriptures cannot but have observ'd that the Method prescrib'd by Cbrist himself for the planting and propagating the Mysteries of his Holy Faith in the World was by ordaining and commissionating Apostles and Disciples to inform all Mankind of his Doctrine and Religion and the only Reasonable Means for any at that time to arrive to the certain Knowledge of the True Faith was to hear and submit to the Doctrine deliver'd by Those that were thus sent to Preach and Teach it This is the way by which the Christian Religion was first planted in the World and by this it has been ever since maintain'd The same Pastors and Overseers that were to teach the Gospel having another part of their Charge viz. To stand up in case of any Difficulties or Divisions arising in Point of Faith and by their Decision to put an end to the Controversie So to preserve Unity amongst the Faithful and defeat all the attempts of Turbulent and Presuming Spirits This Method of Pastors and Teachers directing and feeding and the Obligation of the Flock to Submit and Obey as necessary for continuing One Faith amongst Believers he has learnt to be Reasonable and of Divine Institution from the Practice of the Apostles For he finds Acts 15. that a Controversie being started at Antioch concerning the necessity of Circumcision 't was not left to every Particular Believer to think and decide the matter as they judge fit according to the best of their Knowledge and Parts neither did Paul and Barnabas with other Overseers of the Church of Antioch undertake to define any thing in this Particular No what was the Common Concern of all Christians was not to be determin'd by the Rulers and Pastors of any Particular Church but as belonging to All 't was to be remitted to the Consideration and Decision of Those who had All under their Charge that is the Pastors of the Vniversal or Catholic Church And thus did Paul and Barnabas for going up to Jerusalem the Cause was committed to the Hearing and Sentence of All the Apostles and Elders assembled at Jurusalem And as 't was determin'd by Them thus in Body 't was receiv'd by the Faithful with consolation not only at Antioch but in all other Places wheresoever the Gospel of Christ was preach'd by the Apostles who as they went through the Cities deliver'd them the Decrees for to keep that were ordain'd of the Apostles and Elders who were at Jerusalem Act. 16. 4. This was the Practice of the Apostles as it stands recorded in Holy Writ providentially there describ'd that their Successors the Rulers and Pastors of the Church in future Ages from this Authentic President might be provided of a Means whereby to maintain a Vnity in Faith amongst all True Believers however spread throughout the different and divided Nations of the Universe and know how to give a check to all growing Schisms and Heresies As therefore the Apostles put a stop to this Debate concerning the Circumcision by determining in Council in what manner the Faithful were to be taught were to believe and do in this Particular and by this Determination preserv'd the Vnity of Spirit in the Bond of Peace amongst the Faithful and prevented the many Divisions which otherwise might have torn the Flock asunder had they been every one lest to their own thoughts to judge of it as they pleas'd In like manner did the Pastors of the Church succeeding them in their Charge in the like Circumstances for when there appear'd any entring in among the Flock as was foretold by St. Paul Act. 20. 29. and like grievous Wolves not sparing it but speaking Perverse things to draw away Disciples after them The Overseers who were to feed the Church of God and commanded by the same Apostle to Watch and take heed to all the Flock ib. v. 28. assembled in Council and by their Determination declar'd to all under their Charge the Faith deliver'd and directed them which way to believe as to the Point in debate This was the Practice of the Primitive Church when as yet acknowledg'd Pure and Vncorrupted Thus did the Pastors then in the First General Council at Nice decide the Controversie rais'd by Arius thus they did in the Second at Constantinople in the Third at Ephesus in the Foutth at Chalcedon The Faithful always receiving with great Veneration the Determination of their Pastors thus Assembled and looking upon this Submission to their Doctrine as the most Reasonable Means whereby
Protestant Reasoning discover or even apprehend how there can be three distinct Persons in One Divine Nature undivided or how God could be made Man be Born Suffer and Die But not to go so high Can you conceive it as agreeable to your Reason How all this World could be made out of Nothing Can you conceive What Eternity is to be without begining or ending For the Bodies of all the Sons of Adam to rise from the Dead after having pass'd through so many successive Corruptions How the Bodies of the Just shall become Spiritual and put on Incorruption And those of the Wicked be tormented for ever as long as God shall be God Can you conceive apprehend or by your Reason tell How these things can be Can your Reason by being Protestant open unto you these Mysteries And I hope you believe them with a firm and undoubting Faith. Misrepresent Yes I believe them all and to speak plainly I think they are far above the reach of all Humane Reason Man may endeavour to explicate them by Similitudes or some proportion in Nature but these still fall much short of the real Truth of those Mysteries and he that thinks he comprehends them does only deceive himself and like those who try to look the Sun full in the Face see nothing by presuming to see too much However notwithstanding this great disproportion the Mysteries of Christian Religion bear with humane Reason yet I believe them all with a firm and certain Faith to be true upon the Authority of God revealing them who is Truth it self Represent Spoke like a Christian and if all Protestants would joyn with you in this Sentiment there would not be so many Reasoning Atheists in the World as there are But give me leave Misrepresenter Is it not a very spiteful and un-neighbourly Trick that whilst you thus in private profess and own so sovereign a Truth as this and that you believe such Mysteries according to your Religion which your Reason can neither see nor understand Yet when you come to appear in Publick and are to win the favour of the People by declaiming against Popery you then dress out this in the Papists as the greatest piece of non-sense in the World 't is then nothing but going blindfold laying aside Reason a slavish Submission and a thousand worse things besides Come let me tell you this your putting on at pleasure different Faces is no credit to your cause And it makes some begin to think That many of your Popular Harangues have more of Policy in them than Religion that they drive more at keeping up a Party than saving of Souls Otherwise why should you in publick set that forth as Ridiculous in the Papists which in your more sober conversation between Friends you profess your selves and own as Reasonable and Christian Misrepresent This is nothing better than railery Why I don't blame the Papists upon this account I only pity and condemn them because Poor Souls they are forc'd to take up all Religion upon trust they are not allow'd the use of the Bible and so cannot examine by their own Reason the Doctrine of Christ and Mysteries of his Faith but without all Seeing or Reasoning must take all that 's given them for Good and so are merely led Captives depending wholly upon the Will of their Ignorant Guides and if they will but say as they say they are Good Catholics tho' they understand not a Word This is it I call going Blindfold hood-winking of Reason and slavish Obedience Represent You are come now to your Popular Topic and yet you cannot turn your self in it without Misrepresenting deceiving and stretching your Stories beyond the bounds of Truth You please your people by putting the Bible into their hands encouraging them to search the Scriptures to find out the Truth that so the Word of Christ may dwell richly in them in all Wisdom Then you tell them of the great Blessing they enjoy in as much as their lot is not fallen in those unhappy Places where the people can by no means procure the Reading of the Bible cannot come to the Knowledge of the Word of God or of their Duty but must walk in Darkness and see no Light. Misrepresent Well and is not this true Represent 'T is like the Truths you generally tell when you rail against the Papists It has a little of Truth in it and the Greater Part False It has a Truth for the Foundation but then you raise so many False Constructions Wrong Inferences and Misapplications upon it that the Truth is violently bore down and almost sunk into nothing Misrepresent Come let me take my Turn You Catechis'd me in one Point now let me examine you in another Do you Believe the Bible to be the Word of God Represent Yes I believe it to be the Word of God that it contains the Doctrine of Christ and as such I am commanded to Respect Honour and Reverence it and so I do sincerely desiring rather to lose my life than contemn or injure that Sacred Volume Misrepresent Do you think it convenient for the People to Know and Understand the Doctrine it delivers Represent I think it not only convenient but also necessary for them to Know and Understand it and that Salvation is not attainable by those who do not do as is there commanded or do not believe as is there taught Misrepresent Why then do you deprive the Vulgar and Ordinary People of this Holy Food of their Souls which you judge Necessary for their Salvation Why do you take the Light out of their Hands and force them to walk in darkness Represent The Ordinary People and Vulgar of our Communion have more of this Holy Food are better serv'd with this Light of Truth than those of any other Perswasion whatsoever and 't is nothing but an Aspersion of yours to say They are depriv'd of this Bread of Life and are left without Means of knowing their Duty to God and their Neighbour Do you but consider a little Misrepresenter Are those People depriv'd of the Word of God who are taught it by their Pastors by God's Appointment ordain'd to teach them Or does he take the better course to be instructed in his Christian Duty who leaving his Pastors goes about to teach himself Men don 't generally think that Flock to be depriv'd of its food which is carefully fed by the Shepherd neither is that Sick Man left without Means for his Cure who receives Prescriptions from the Physician without having the liberty of the Apothecarie's Shop to take what best suits with his Taste or his Phancy where tho' all be Good if rightly applied yet 't is easie mistaking the use of the Drugs and taking Killing ones instead of Curing Why then should you defame the Papists as not having God's Word dwelling in their hearts whenas tho' they do not receive it generally by Reading it themselves yet they are instructed in that Sacred Truth and fed with it by
expected he should know or deliver truly the Doctrine of our Church who is so unhappy as not to know his own Mind But in one breath desires to be inform'd and Vows to follow wheresoever Truth â—or Charity shall lead him and in the very next without condition or reserve desires rather to die than to move one step from where he stands No this coming with Vow'd Docility in one hand and sturdy Presumption in the other is no good Argument of Sincerity and Honesty the qualities he so eagerly pretends to and ungroundedly questions in me Misrepresent Well but he has prov'd beyond the possibility of Reply that the Papists are on the Uncharitable side and Protestants on the Charitable out of your own Authors and your Charitable Doctrine to be new Popery Represent You have his Word for 't p. 8. But any besides a Layman will call it only a Say-so instead of a Proof His Protestant Charity which he even boasts of is the granting Salvation to Papists upon no other score than Invincible Ignorance and for this he thinks them p. 6. Charitable to a high degree And yet this is the very same Charity Papists have for Protestants the allowing of Salvation possible for such as through invincible Ignorance remain separate from the Church being a common opinion of the Modern and Antient Schoolmen And all those who pronounce so severely against Protestants 't is against Protestants remaining such as he words it p. 8. that is Obstinately and Pertinaciously continuing in Error and Schism in which circumstances Papists too are allow'd no claim to Salvation by Protestants Now where 's the Contradictions and the two sorts of Popery he brags of p. 8. Come Misrepresenter I look upon your Friends put to a hard shift when they begin to talk of New Popery They have been making the Papists odious these hundred Years for their Vncharitableness to Protestants and now the Disguise begins to wear off and the Papists appear as Charitable as Protestants nothing can serve to amuse the people and hinder their seeing the delusion but the noise of New Popery This may do with some but methinks a Sincâ—â—e Layman who desires to be led into all Truth p. 5. might be glad to find Men better than he thought them and not seek for one disguise to palliate another If his mind be tinctur'd with the Blood that runs in his Veins p. 11. yet assure him a Friend of his wishes heartily 't wou'd flow something Cooler and cause in him a more Even Pulse than to require as he does p. 12 nothing less than an Infallible Certainty to better his Opinion of the Papists whilst yet a Fallible Perswasion will content him for all the rest of his Religion Publish'd with Allowance LONDON Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel MDCLXXXVI THE CATHOLIC REPRESENTER CHAP. IX The Scriptures not always the Same to the same Person No Possibility of meeting in One Faith whil'st Private Reason sets up for Interpreter of the Word of God. The Sham-story of the Frogs and Crabs The Truth of the Anniversary Solemnity Misrepresent YOur last attempt of Proving the Scriptures to be as various in the Heads of Protestants as there are Heads amongst them was very Bold and I am perswaded now you are Cooler you 'l disown the Assertion Represent What I said was to lay before you the Reason why amongst the Catholics the Reading of the Bible is not promiscuously allow'd the Vulgar And to that end I shew'd you that the Ordinary People in all Nations being for the most part Vnlearned and Vnstable wheresoever the Canvassing the Scripture is freely permitted them without exception they generally understand it several ways and consequently what is the Scripture to Them is Multiplied and made as Numerous as their different Conceptions and Imaginations of it And now I 'll go farther with you for 't is not only thus in several People but even the same Person many times has the Faculty of Multiplyiâ—g the Word of God. For how many are to be found amongst the Vulgar who according to their different Humours as their Interest changes according to the different Impressions they receive from Confidents especially such as have gain'd their good Opinion espouse different Doctrines and Perswasions and run through as many Sects as there are Divisions in the Nation And yet in all their Windings they still follow as they imagine the Scriptures always guiding themselves by what they think the Word of God evidently speaks to them Don't you see how to these same Persons the Word of God is not always the same It alters according to Seasons and Times and 't was one Word of God directed them the last year another this and it may be another before the next So that tho' it be always the same Vnchangeable in their Hands as to the Letter yet it often changes in their Heads as the Meaning Misrepresent This is a fine Whim to undermine the Authority of the Scriptures But say what you will the Word of God is Plain Easie and Clear and God has given to every one Reason enough to Understand it the Reading it is comfortable the Following it a Duty And 't is an injury of the highest nature to deprive any tho the meanest Soul of so considerable a Blessing Represent If it be so Plain and Easie as you say how comes it there 's so little agreement in the Vnderstanding it How are there so many Different and Contrary Divisions Sects and Perswdsions in this One Nation How comes it that even in the Essentials of Christianity concerning the Trinity Incarnation the Divinity of Christ the Sacrament Baptism the Holy Catholic Church the Communion of Saints the Forgiveness of Sins the Resurrection of the Flesh c. there has been and at present is so great diversity amongst those that read the Scripture The business is you are for setting up every mans Private Reason to be Judge of Scripture If you have seen the Answer to the Protestant Plea for a Socinian you 'l find there p. 26. he points it out for the Mark of a Right Socinian to make Reason the Rule of the Scriptures Such a one says he makes Reason the Rule of that Rule And are not you far worse in this than the Rankest Socinian in the World whilst with him you do not make Common Reason the Measure of that Rule but every mans Private Reason which when put to the Test proves in Thousands and Thousands to be nothing better than Passion Prejudice Interest Imagination Guessing or Phancy Don't you find by experience there 's no such Trivial Proposal made but presently the Company 's divided there 's Head against Head Reason against Reason and this tho' the concern be but of Hay or Straw or the most obvious in the World Don't you see again that almost every Man's Reason is different as their Capacity Parts Education Temper Inclination Impressions are different
Clouts and some other Reports that have been warmly carried about this last Month by Men of all Coats came all out of the same Miâ—t And were it not that the People you deal with were so wonderfully short-memory'd when a Lie is discover'd and again so wretchedly Credulous when a Fresh one is Broach'd these Fictions would be your utter Confusion But I 'll tell you the Truth of all this matter There 's a Mourning Hearse indeed plac'd in the Chappels in Memory of the Deceas'd Party and Prayers are offer'd up for his Soul after the Practice of the Primitive Church in the time of her Purity above Thirteen hundred years ago and as 't was then perform'd to Constantine the First Christian Emperour whose Body after his Decease as 't is related by Eusebius l. 4. de Vit. Const c. 71. being expos'd upon a stately Throne great numbers of People together with the Priests offer'd up Prayers to God not without Sighs and Tears for the Soul of the Emperour thus performing a most acceptable Office to their Prince of Pious Memory And this Pious Office was not only perform'd to the Faithful Departed at the time of their Departure but every year at the return of that Day and thus says Tertullian l. 10. de Monog c. 10. speaking of a Christian Widow She prays for his her Husbands Soul and makes Oblations on the Anniversary days of his Departure This is what VVe now do and all that is perform'd in our Chappels but for the Erogs and Crabs they are no where but in your Brains Misrepresent I 'll send some to see within a day or two Represent You have enough ready to go upon such an Errand If they bring you any Crabs or Frogs thence pray let me have a sight of them Publish'd with Allowance LONDON Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel MDCLXXXVI THE CATHOLIC REPRESENTER CHAP. X. Private Interpretation of Scriptures the Occasion of Divisions Some Protestant Divines call in the assistance of Authority and Guides but all ends in the Private Spirit The Question started Where was the Protestant Religion as it is now Reform'd before Luther The Answers of some Protestant Divines Represent YOu broke off my last Discourse with your Dream of Frogs and Crabs But I 'll take it up now and therefore I must tell you I cannot but admire your Procedings in leaving the Holy Bible to the Vulgar to be scann'd and Interpreted by them at pleasure 'T is evident they being of Different Capacities and Inclinations they can never so agree in their Interpretations as to meet in One Faith to be of One Mind and One Spirit as is commanded by St. Paul. 1 Cor. 1. 10. This is too clearly Demonstrated in the Distractions of this our Nation where so many setting up for Interpreters of Scripture there are Religious Sects Divisions Perswasions Faiths and Creeds multiplyed without number to the scandal of the Christian Name every-one pretending to the Truth while yet these being so numerous the true Faith is but One One God and one Faith Eph. 4. 5. And the Reason of these divisions is obvious For tho' the Bible is but one in all their Hands yet this Sacred Book doe's not instruct and direct them but by certain means to be us'd on their part And these Means being according to D. Reynolds and Whitaker The reading it their conference of Places their weighing of the circumstances of the Text their skill in the Tongues their Diligence and Prayer How is it possible they should all agree in their Expositions of H. Writ since these Actions on their behalf are but Humane Endeavours Subject to Error Oversight Infirmity and as different as their several Parts and Capacities Can all compare Texts alike Can they all weigh Circumstances alike Are they all skill'd in Languages alike How then shall they be instructed and directed alike when their Instruction and Direction as to the Christian Faith depends upon these Means And while they thus rely on their own endeavours their own searching and interpreting the Scriptures as the Means whereby to arrive to the True Faith is it not a miserable thing to consider that these Divided Christians having rejected the Interpretation of the Catholic Church do now every one rely on so unsafe Means for their Faith and Salvation that no man dares trust to but themselves that is every Private Person on his own Private Search and Interpretation of H. Writ Which whilst every one depends on for himself yet no body dares trust to besides nor think it sufficient whereon to build their Salvation And the result of this is to bring all to the Private Spirit Misrepresent I have let you run on so long declaiming against the Interpretations of the Private Spirit to see what you wou'd be at And now you have spent so much breath you have at last said nothing but in the air Why We are not for the Private Spirit If you read Mr. Sa. Crispe 's Sermon at the Primary Visitation of the Bishop of Norwich 1686. You 'l see the Guidance of the Private Spirit prov'd nothing better than Enthusiasm p. 6. That it has made so much havock in the World in the worst designs in the murder of Princes the overturning of Kingdoms and Churches that there is nothing so vile or Monstrous Earthly sensual or devilish but if this pretence be admitted may pass for Inspiration And that consequently 't is not to be rely'd on as proper to conduct any to salvation He declares plainly the necessity of a Guide in this affair And that all those who desire not to miss their way must not only apply themselves with due modesty to the searching the Scriptures but must likewise carefully use the Ministerial Aids of the Christian Church And the reason why so many are given over to Strong Delusions and to believe a Lye He says p. 7. is because out of Pride or Wantonness they forsake the Guides of Gods appointment The like application to Church Guides or Ministerial Helps is required by the Author of the Discourse concerning a Guide in matters of Faith p. 38. as likewise by the late Discourse Concerning a Judge of Controversies So that you see These Protestant Divines are not for encouraging the Enthusiasms of every mans Private Interpretation of Scripture No they are for a just deference to Authority and the use of Guides Represent I confess some of them to keep up the Face of a Church do Speculatively contend for Authority and Guides but then in Fact they again defeat all these their Pretensions whilst they own no Authority to be so Great or Safe with them but 't is to be subjected to the control of every Private Examiner and so to be follow'd or not follow'd as every man in his own Private Capacity shall think fit So that the Vltimate Appeal with them is not to Authority but to the Private Spirit They maintain the
Cross and Chrism with the Doctrine of Real Presence Transubstantiation Reservation of the Sacrament worshipping it and offering it in Sacrifice as propitiatory for the Living and the Dead with the Mixture of Water and Wine in the 〈…〉 Consecration With the Sign of the Cross in Baptism Abrenunciation Exorcism anointing with Oyl and other Ceremonies us'd in Baptism With holding Infants dying without Baptism not to be Sav'd The Bishop Confirming the Baptized with Chrism and keeping the Chrism in a Box with Consecration of Chrism by a Bishop only with solemn Translation of Saints Relics their Worship placing them under the Altar Pilgrimages to them and Diseased Persons thereupon cured With Images in the Church and Lights in the Day time With Anchorites Ermites Abbots and Monks their Vow'd Chstity Voluntary Poverty vow'd Chastity of Virgins Monasterys of Virgins their Veil and Habit the Fast from Flesh in Lent Funeral Rites Anniversary Days Prayer for the Soul of the Deceas'd Party from Apostolic Tradition With a set Form of Prayer Litanys numbring Prayers upon little Stones With Worshipping the Cross Signing the Forehead with it With attributing to it Vertue of Consecrating the Sacrament of driving away Devils Witchcraft c. In like manner with Deacons Subdeacons Acolites Exorcists c. with farther mention of the Prtests Vnction Ecclesiastical Vestments the Albe the Stole Dalmatica and Cope c. With teaching that Priests might not marry after being ordain'd With Magnificent Churches Consecrated with Celebration of Mass appointed to be said in no places but such as were hallow'd by a Bishop With affirming the Church to be built upon Peter With teaching Peters Primacy and deriving the same from Peter to his Successor the Bishop of Rome whose Episcopal See the Antient Fathers do therefore term Peters See Peters Chair honouring the same with a peculiar Festival Day and decreeing even Publick Prayer to be made for the Pope in Mass time and finally with several examples of confess'd Primacy in the Bishop of Rome Misrepresent Bless me Man Why we are over Head and Ears in Popery I have not Patience to hear any more of this kind of Trumpery I see if I let you have the searching for the Protessant Religion in the Primitive Times we shall never find it Represent I see but little hopes of it indeed hitherto And yet what can a Man do more for your advantage than I have here done I enquire of I rotestants Where one must look to find their Religion in former Times They tell me Their Religion is the same that was profess'd by the Primitive Christians in the First Four Five or Six Hundred Years after Christ I examine those Years and not to be biass'd by Passion or Prejudice I make use of Protestant Spectacles to look back upon those Past Ages And yet you see what kind of Protestant Religion we meet with Were it not for your saying They were Protestants one might swear without scruple the Christians of those times were downright Papists I have deliver'd to you hitherto nothing of the Profession and Practice of those Ages but what your own Protestant Historians deliver to me And how can I think the Christians were then Protestants when Your own Historians and Controvertists mark out to me the most Eminent and Leading Men of those Times for Papists Come let me tell you This is enough to make any Man stumble And tho you pretend to go by Sâ—nse and Reason in your Religion Yet methinks to hear the Protestants of the Last Age condemning the Times now under question for Papistical and you with your Modern Divines appealing to them for Protestant is not very agreeable either to Sense or Reason and to be free with you I must een renounce them both if you intend I shou'd follow you Publish'd with Allowance Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel M DC LXXX VI. THE CATHOLIC REPRESENTER CHAP. XIII The Professors of Popish Doctrines in the Primitive Times no Protestants but Papists Popish Tenets not only the Opinions of Private Doctors but the Doctrine of the Primitive Church The Four First General Councils no Protestants Representer WELL met to day Misrepresenter I hope now you have slept upon our last Discourse you will not press me much with turning Protestant since having now Examin'd the Religion of the Primitive Times we cannot discover but that what you call Popery was as Generally profess'd by the Christians of those Purer Ages as under Hen. 8. when your New Apostles set up for Reformation Misrepresent You would fain perswade me to it I know this is the Trap you lay to catch Converts But you 'l be mistaken in me I am too well acquainted with all your Wiles Repres No No as for your particular I e'en despair 'T is Good Well-meaning People such as have made it the First of their Morning Prayers to God to Direct them to the Truth such as have dealt justly and honestly with their Neighbours have spoke ill of none have rais'd no Lying Reports nor have been maliciously Industrious in spreading them such as these I willingly Discourse and have hopes to prevail with But for you that talk loud of Reason and have none You that fleer and flurt and blaspheme every thing you do not understand You that suck in Hatred against your Neighbour with your Milk and afterwards nourish it by Obstinacy and Passion and continue to malign him you know not why You that condemn your Neighbor upon a bare Presumption and pass Sentence against him upon Fables and Hear-says and perswade all your Acquaintance to do the like for you I say nothing less than a Miracle can change your Heart and unless some favourable Ray of Mercy shine upon you to cure this Blindness as you have liv'd so I fear you 'l die in Darkness Misrepres What dooming me already Repres Your want of Charity is a Presage of your Doom 'T is but beating the Air to Discourse with you However Once again Don't you often charge me with believing the Errors and Superstitions of Popery and importune me no longer to admire those Fopperies but as I tender my Salvation to renounce them all heartily and become a Good Protestant Misrepres Yes I do And 't is the Doctrine I Preach up every where for the good of Souls And I give the Reason Because the Protestant Religion is the Pure Religion as 't was Profess'd heretofore by the Christians in the Primitive Times Repres 'T is that Religion I desire to be a Member of But how can I believe that That was the Protestant Religion If I am to pin my Faith upon your Sleeve tell me so But if I am to be convinc'd of it by Reason how is it possible I shou'd be of your Mind and think so since having now taken a fair Prospect of the Religion of those Ages from the Best and most Impartial Historians we find Popery to have been then
in his Sermon at Paul's Cross to all his Learned Adversaries the Papists to bring against the Protestant Doctrine any one sufficient Sentence out of any One Catholic Doctor or Father for the Space of Six hundred Years after Christ and he is content to yield Whitaker renews the same Challenge Resp ad rat Camp. p. 90. provoking the Papists to the first Six hundred Years and if they can produce any one Father or Council against the Protestant Articles he grants the Victory It is the Offer of us all says he the same do we all promise and we will perform it So that as far as I see I have not exceeded the Protestant Bounds Repres Neither have I in our Enquiry pass'd these Limits Our Search has been restrain'd within the Compass of the First Six hundred Years and the whole System of Popery I have laid before you has been the Belief and Practice of the Christians of those Times And this will oblige you to consider what Grounds you have to trust to for the Support of the Pretended Reformation whilst you see some eminent Protestants Appealing to the Primitive Church of the First Six hundred Years and Challenging the Papists to produce any One Doctor in favour of Popery within that Compass and yet other Protestants at the same time are charging the most Learned and Eminent Fathers of those Ages as Abbettors of Popery and reprove them for being infected with Popish Doctrines Misrepres This you have been often Saying but I must see it Prov'd Repres Do you keep then in your Mind the Challenge of Bishop Jewel above mention'd wherein he provokes the Papists to shew One Father holding against the Protestant Doctrine in the First Six hundred years and bidding them Defiance upon this Trial the like of Whitaker and others and I le let you see the Concessions of some other Protestants upon the same Subject But have Patience then 1. For the allowing Vows of Perpetual Chastity and affirming them to be Obligatory S. Basil Ambrose Chrysostome Epiphanius and S. Austin are reprov'd by Chemnitius Exam. p. 3. p. 41 42. And the General Council of Chalcedon is confess'd to have forbidden Marriage to Monks and Nuns by Just Molit de Eccl. Milit. p. 80. 2. As touching the Sacrament Chrysostom is thought to confirm Transubstantiation Centur. 5. col 517. Eusebius Emissenus did speak unprofitably of Transubstantiation Cent. 4. col 985. In Cyprian are many Sayings which seem to affirm Transubstantiation Ursin Commen p. 211. 3. As concerning Sacrifice it is affirm'd by Learned Protestants that the Ancient Fathers viz. Athanasius Ambrose Austin c. err'd herein So Calvin and Dr. Field who say of them that they made a Sacrifice of the Lords Supper The Centurists likewise affirm of Cyprian that his Judgment in this Point is Superstitious Cent. 3. col 83. That the Writings of Irenaeus and Ignatius are herein incommodious and dangerous Cent. 2. c. 4. col 55. And that presently after the Apostles Times the Supper of our Lord was turn'd into a Sacrifice sebas Franc. in Ep. de Abrog 4. Concerning Prayer for the Dead It was general in the Church lorg before the Days of Austin as appears in Cyprian and Tertullian So Mr. G. Gifford in his Demonst p. 38. Mr. Fulk likewise acknowledges that Tertullian Cyprian Austin Jerome and a great many more do witness that Sacrifice for the Dead is the Tradition of the Apostles Consut of Purg. p. 362. That Prayer and Alms were made for the Dead almost from the very beginning of the Church Bucer in Enar. 4. Evang. in Mat. c. 12. 5. Concerning Merit of Works Dr. Humfrey says It may not be deny'd but that Ireuaeus Clement and others who are call'd Apostolical Men have in their Writings the Opinions of Free-will and Merit of Works Jesuitism par 2. p. 530. Origen and Chrysostome are affirm'd by the Centuriators to have handled impurely the Doctrine of Justification and that they attribute Merit to Works Cent. 3. col 265. and Cent. 5. col 1178. And not only Cyprian but almost all the Holy Fathers of that Time were in that Error as thinking so to pay the Pain due to Sin and to satisfie Gods Justice Whitak in Resp ad Rat. Camp. Rat. 5. 6. Concerning Invocation of Saints The Lord Archbishop of Cant. Discoursing of Doctrines taught in any Age since the Apostles Times affirms without any Exception of Age or Father That almost all the Bishops and Writers of the Grâ—ek Church and Latin also for the most part were spotted with Doctrines of Free-will Merit Invocation of Saints c. Whitgift Def. ag Rep. of Cartw. p. 473. Mr. Fulk likewise says I confess that Ambrose Austin and Jerome held Invocation of Saints to be lawful Rejoyn to Brist p. 5. S Cyprian is charg'd by the Cent. to maintain That Martyrs and Saints departed pray for the Living Cent. 3. col 84. Origen likewise with Prayer for himself to Holy Job and Invocation of Angels Cent. 3 col 83. and col 75. The same Centurists affirm moreover That there are manifest Steps of Invocation of Saints in the Doctors of that Ancient Age. Cent. 3. c. 4. col 83. 7. Concerning Confession and Absolution The Centurists confess That even in those Times of Cyprian and Tertullian was us'd Private Confession and that the same was then commanded and thought necessary Cent. 3 c. 6. col 127. That also Penance or Satisfaction was enjoyn'd according to the Offence Ib. And likewise that the Priest when the Confession was made and Penance enjoyn'd did afterwards Absolve the Penitent with the Ceremony of Impâ—sing his Hand Cent. ib. 8. Concerning the Primacy of Peter above the other Apostles the Ancient Fathers of the Church viz. Jerome Hilary Nazianzen Tertullian Cyprian Origen are reprehended by the Protestant Centurists viz. for affirming the Church to be built upon Peter Cent. 4. col 1215 555 558 c. The same Centurists reprove S. Cyprian for teaching say they without any foundation of Scripture that the Roman Church ought to be acknowledg'd of all other for the Mâ—ther and Root of the Catholic Church Cent. 3. col 84. In like manner Irenaeus who as Hamelmannus says might yet remember the Apostles own lively Preaching is condemn'd by the Centurists for his affirming That all the Churches ought to accord to the Roman Church in regard of a more powerful Principality for which words they charge him with a corrupt Saying concerning the Primacy of the Roman Church Cent. 2. Alph. Tab. word Irenaeus And this Authority of the B. of Rome D. Philip Nicolai referreth for its beginning to the Infirmity of the Apostles and of the first succeeding Bishops of Rome in Comment de Reg. Christ p. 221. With whom concurs Mr. Middleton in his Papist Mast p. 193. No marvail therefore says he tho' perusing Councils Fathers and Stories from the Apostles forward we find the Print of the Popes Feet For these and all other Points of Catholic Doctrine the
currant Testimonies of the Ancient Fathers are so certain and evident that many Learned Protestants upon this Consideration refuse to stand the Test of their Authorities thinking it far more advantageous to their Cause to give them a general Disclaim Hence Mr. Whitaker affirms the Popish Religion to be patcht up out of the Fathers Errors Cont. Dur l. 6. p. 423. And Dr. Humfrey most severely reprehends Mr. Jewel for his so bold Appeal to the Primitive Fathers affirming that herein Mr. Jewel gave the Papists too large a scope was injurious to himself and after a manner spoil'd himself and the Church Misrepres So then I see you intend to claim the Fathers not only of Constantine 's Time and the Following Ages as Abettors of Popery but likewise Those who in the First Centuries immediately succeeded the Apostles And what Room then do you leave for Protestancy Repres 'T is not only I that claim Them but even the Protestants themselves you see of the precedent Age such who were not asham'd to speak the Truth make a surrender of them laying aside all Pretensions either to Them or their Doctrine And when they have disown'd all the Fathers one by one from Clement Ignatius Irenaeus who liv'd in the Apostles Days and succeeded them in their Function to S. Jerome Austin Leo Gregory the last of which surviv'd the Fifth Century when they have declar'd that Antichrist began his Reign and obscur'd the Light of the Gospel even from the Time of the Apostles I wonder what Room as you say there 's left for Protestancy It savours something of a Mystery methinks call'd Nonsense to say the Protestant Religion is the same Pure Religion as was Anciently and Generally Profess'd amongst the Fathers and Christians of the Primitive Church and then to condemn the same Fathers and Christians of the Primitive Church for being infected with Popery and giving way to Antichrist Wherefore to avoid these Inconveniences if you 'l take my Advice Misrepresenter I believe you had better pretend no longer Right to the Primitive Fathers but as you have condemn'd the Eight hundred Years next before the Reformation of Damnable Errors and Popish Superstitions to take one step further back and e'en take in the other Six hundred Years too and so condemn them all in the lump from Christ's Time to Luther for being Papists and Popishly affected Never Mince the matter They were all Men you know and subject to Error and when you are once in 't is as easily condemning your Fore-fathers for Fourteen Ages as for Eight Your First Reforming-Apostles were something of this mind and thought it no more difficulty to Censure and Condemn the Primitive Fathers than Those they found in the time of K. Henry 8. but were for Reforming all with the same Hand Hearken a little to your courageous Luther In the Writings says he of Jerome there is not a word of True Faith in Christ and Sound Religion Tertullian is very Superstitious I have held Origen long since Accursed of Chrysostome I make no account Basil is of no worth he is wholly a Monk I value him not of a Hair Cyprian is a Weak Divine The Apology of Philip Melancthon far excels all the Dostors of the Church and exceeds even Austin himself Coll. Mens c. de Patr. Eccles And in another place The Fathers says he of so many Ages have been plainly Blind and most Ignorant in the Scriptures They err'd all their Life-time and unless they were mended before their Deaths they were neither Saints nor pertaining to God's Church To. 2. l. de Serv. Arbit Peter Martyr is of the same mind and therefore says plainly That as long as we stand to Councils and Fathers we shall always remain infected with the same Errors viz. of Popery And certainly Misrepresenter these Your First Setters up for Reformation were in the Right on 't for nothing can possibly so strengthen Protestancy and justifie the Separation as this Levelling Divinity For your Going by halves and pretending to be of the Religion of the First Ages of the Church fills People with Doubts and Scruples whilst looking back upon the Professors of those Times instead of Protestancy they find so much Popery amongst them Publish'd with Allowance Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel M DC LXXX VI. THE CATHOLIC REPRESENTER CHAP. XVI A New Way of making all the Popish Sayings of the Primitive Fathers to be Good Protestancy The Art of Interpreting do's Feats it makes way for Atheism and Infidelity Represent HOW stands your Head to day Misrepresenter have you Consider'd the Proposal I made you at our last Meeting Are you for disclaiming all Title to the Primitive Church and Huffing those Ancient Fathers as Luther Peter Martyr and others did who designing a Through-Reformation were alike for calling those Great Doctors to an account of the First Ages as they did those they found in the Time of King Henry 8 Or are you for Reforming upon These First Reformers and taking in those Primitive Fathers of the Church for Protestants which They cast off and Condemn'd for Papists Misrepres I have Consider'd this Matter very seriously and taken the Advice of Friends upon the Point And therefore to be short with you I value no more the Saying of Luther than he did Those Ancient Fathers whom he condemn'd as Weak Divines Superstitious and Valu'd not of a Hair. He was so near the Times of Darkness that he could not well look back and make Judgment of any thing behind him Repres Nay I commend you in this 't is only just to serve him in his kind 'T was Tertullian's Saying Curâ—â—nm idem licet Marcionitis quod Marcioni If Marcion has rebell'd against the Church why should his Followers think much to rebel against him And since Luther cast off all Authority and valu'd not the Writings and Doctrine of the most Eminent Fathers of the Primitive Church why shou'd any one think much of undervaluing him by his own Example If Luther could so easily throw by S. Cyprian for a Weak Divine and S. Basil for being wholly a Monk is not this Precedent enough for any Follower of Luther to cast him off for an Apostate Friar and an Ambitious Divine Well but if you Reform upon Luther in this Point and don 't think fit with him to lay aside all the Writings of the Ancient Fathers as Erroneous and Superstitious what do you do with all those troublesome Passages in their Works wherein They are such Positive Asserters of Popish Doctrines that 't is impossible for any Man to take the Authors for any thing but Papists which do's not well suit with your Claim to them as Protestants Misrepres Pish I value no more these Difficulties than Luther did the Fathers that is not of a Hair. If the First Reformers bad their Eyes but half open what 's that to us who have the Noon-light of the Gospel shining upon us